Star Trek Discovery

[Weirdo]

I have no problem with technology looking more advanced than stuff from the 60s, as long as the 60s stuff still outperforms it whenever you get actual comparison points.

Remember the episodes in Enterprise when mirror folks from that era got ahold of a Constitution? It looked more primitive than the 'contemporary' ships, but when the torpedoes started flying...ouch.

THAT'S how you do tech progression while still keeping the sets and special effects current.

[Cannonshop]

I'm not hoping for development, I'm recognising that they've done character work to begin with and have already expanded on this.  If you don't agree, that's one thing, but to make arbitrary declarations about how this isn't Star Trek because X, while ignoring or making excuses for every other Star Trek also doing X is intellectually dishonest.

It's clear you don't like the show, so at this point, instead of looking for problems with it, why not just stop watching it, and find something more productive to do than complain about it online?

as I said, we're not going to agree.

[Ruger]

I watched the first episode on Netflix. I'm honestly getting tired of the usual cliches of placing the bridge of a starship on top of the hull where it can easily be targeted by the enemy and the usual exploding console bit.

Wasn't the Shenzou's (or however it's spelled) bridge placed at the bottom of its saucer section?

Edit: And say what you will about "Enterprise", and even "Voyager", they did keep true to the feeling of exploration that was part and parcel of TOS...well, perhaps not much of season 3 of "Enterprise", but even that one had some, and season 4 showed that it was truly coming back...had the series lasted to season 5, with the Enterprise rebuilt with a secondary hull, and a build up to the Romulan War and the formation of the Federation, it could have been great...

Still a bad series finale in that one...if they had just done a 10 year jump and showed just that storyline rather than making the story about Will Riker...

Ruger

[Cannonshop]

Wasn't the Shenzou's (or however it's spelled) bridge placed at the bottom of its saucer section?

Edit: And say what you will about "Enterprise", and even "Voyager", they did keep true to the feeling of exploration that was part and parcel of TOS...well, perhaps not much of season 3 of "Enterprise", but even that one had some, and season 4 showed that it was truly coming back...had the series lasted to season 5, with the Enterprise rebuilt with a secondary hull, and a build up to the Romulan War and the formation of the Federation, it could have been great...

Still a bad series finale in that one...if they had just done a 10 year jump and showed just that storyline rather than making the story about Will Riker...

Ruger

It was basically a 'screw you' to the fans that Enterprise had, in spite of the scheduling shell-game and lame theme song, managed to garner and gather...and I think it was intended to be that insulting gesture.  Salting the fields and dumping poison in the well, so to speak, an announcement that B&B absolutely did not want a Trek they didn't control (and with the financial failure of Enterprise, they wouldn't control whatever came next and they knew it..)

looking at Discovery and maybe they were right to try and sabotage the entire franchise like that...at least, on some level.

[Lorcan Nagle]

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Brannon_Braga#Enterprise_.E2.80.93_controversy.2C_atonement.2C_and_defense

Candidly admitting to his reduced role, Braga has outlined his scaled-down responsibilities for the last season, "I was indeed involved in Ent-season4. But only in a supervisory capacity. Manny was really running that writing staff. I was there to help him fashion stories and give notes, which was only part of the time because Manny was doing an amazing job. I rewrote an episode called "Divergence" I believe. No offense to the credited writer [note: the Reeves-Stevens']. It just needed work and I was happy to help Manny out." [25]

While the season as a whole was generally very well received by the fans – though it did not save the series, as its cancellation had already been decided upon – both Berman and Braga yet again took firmly hold of the reins when it came to producing the last episode, "These Are the Voyages...", also turning out to be the very last of the entire television franchise for the time being. Intended to be "a valentine to all the Star Trek shows", as Braga had put it in 2007 at the below-mentioned VegasCon, the well-meant intention was again met with intense criticism, again resulting in a violent backlash from production staffers and fans alike, causing Berman to admit years later, "I would have never done it if I had known how people were going to react." [26] In 2013, Braga made the even more unusual, but equally magnanimous, gesture of prostration by openly apologizing for the episode to cast and crew of Enterprise, conceding that he and Berman had made a "narcissistic move" in trying to make the episode a "valentine" to Star Trek. He also called it "a crappy episode" (ENT Season 2 Blu-ray-special feature, In Conversation: The First Crew), and "an idiotic move on my part" in 2014, having caused "(...) the only time Scott Bakula got pissed off at me". [27]

[Sharpnel]

Braga i being a bit of a whiny bitch. It was the Reeves-Stevens' that got Season 4 back on track and made that show worth watching. Braga and Berman, together, nearly destroyed the Star Trek IP.

[roosterboy]

Braga i being a bit of a whiny bitch.

Because he said he did a rewrite on one script and then accepted blame for a poorly received final episode, all the while praising the job the showrunner was doing that season? That's real whiny, that. ::)

[ColBosch]

I've talked to Braga professionally, back when Enterprise was in development. An old friend of mine, who has sadly passed away, had many dealings with him. Braga has his issues, and I certainly don't see eye-to-eye with him on everything, but he really loves Star Trek. He gets more far more hate than he should.

[Triptych]

If they made it look like TOS, it would have made a small number of Trekkies happy, while alienating the general public.

Fair enough but they should just admit the obvious and proclaim that STD is a reboot of the series. Right now their insistence that its set in the prime universe is making people unhappy because of the total lack of consistency.

[Blackhorse 6]

Just admit its part of the nuTrek storyline and I would have zero issue with it.

Then they need some scripts that make it work. 

Really easy!   :P

[roosterboy]

Fair enough but they should just admit the obvious and proclaim that STD is a reboot of the series. Right now their insistence that its set in the prime universe is making people unhappy because of the total lack of consistency.

Very few people. Not enough to matter.

[Blackhorse 6]

Very few people. Not enough to matter.

Truth.  They could care less if fans of any of the series care for it. 

Two choices?  Like it or lump it.

P

[monbvol]

It is an uncomfortable truth that people old enough to even have watched Enterprise during it's original run, let alone any of the prior series, are not the majority of the viewing market.

[YingJanshi]

It is an uncomfortable truth that people old enough to even have watched Enterprise during it's original run, let alone any of the prior series, are not the majority of the viewing market.

Enterprise isn't that old. It went off air in '05. That's definitely within the 20s-30s range this show is aimed at.

[monbvol]

2017-2005=12 years.

That puts the young end of the target demographic that watched Enterprise at the old end of Discovery at best.

Which means most of the target audience has been replaced with new blood.

[Lorcan Nagle]

Fair enough but they should just admit the obvious and proclaim that STD is a reboot of the series. Right now their insistence that its set in the prime universe is making people unhappy because of the total lack of consistency.

The vast majority of viewers don't care about that though.  Not even the majority of Star Trek fans care about that. 

[Mendrugo]

The total lack of consistency is a Star Trek feature, not a bug.  In the pre-wiki era, there was even a multi volume Nit Picker’s Guide to Star Trek pointing out each episode’s inconsistencies (both with internal logic and with premises established by other episodes)

[I am Belch II]

There really hasn't been a prequel that really kept to the original canon.  That is the problem with going back in time to do a show. Yes the tech is better, and yes the story don't fit with the Canon of Star Trek but as long as it's a good show then it won't be a problem in the long run. I'm just glad that it's more Star Trek in episode 6 and 7 vs 1 and 2.

[Ruger]

There really hasn't been a prequel that really kept to the original canon. 

Not sure I agree with that. Many decry Enterprise for the way it introduced the Klingons to the humans (it's not like what was in the FASA RPG or The Final Reflection!) or that they looked like the movie-era on Klingons rather than TOS versions (reason given in season 4), or the Romulans to the humans (again, not like the FASA RPG!) or that the Vulcans were hated by many humans and didn't act like the logical, stoic race we knew from TOS and later series (again, addressed in season 4)...and then there's the Temporal Cold War and the whole Xindi affair (which was never mentioned before on any previous series, so obviously, it never happened)...

But the thing is, it actually stayed pretty true to what was actually seen on screen in previous shows...the whole FASA and The Final Reflection quibbles aside (as they were never canon), Enterprise, on the whole, actually either only took what came before and grew it, or addressed the differences with on-screen explanations that stayed within the canon that had come previously to the various shows...I'm on my third or fourth viewing of the entire series since I got the complete series set, and I'm not seeing it as a problem child...

Of course, many had a problem with the design of the NX-01, but, from what I've seen, that would have been addressed in season 5 when a secondary hull was added to the ship...you would have seen a definitive precursor  to the Constitution-class heavy cruiser of TOS...no, it would not have been a truly collaborative effort like the Constitution-class et al were supposed to have been per the FASA RPG, but then again, the latter was never canon in the first place anyways...

Ruger

[Lorcan Nagle]

The design work in Enterprise is probably the show's strongest point, IMO.  At a point where a lot of shows were going more towards virtual sets (the hanger in BSG, for example is a tiny physical set with green screen backgrounds to allow for a cavernous look), they built so much of the ship practically.  And they added a ton of detail and physical features to the props beyond what the TNG era had - removable power packs in the phase pistols, light-up panels in tricorders - all great touches.

[Øystein]

I watched the first episode on Netflix. I'm honestly getting tired of the usual cliches of placing the bridge of a starship on top of the hull where it can easily be targeted by the enemy and the usual exploding console bit.

It wouldn't be Trek without a top bridge, exploding consoles and throwing people around.

[Lorcan Nagle]

One of my all-time favourite moments from Tabletop was Wil Wheaton and Jeri Ryan doing Trek bridge shaking movements in sync (it's in the Star Trek Catan gag reel and extended edition)

[skiltao]

Any thoughts on the giant flower from the opening credits? Kinda seems like a season finale kind of thing.

I think that Trek is better served when it's a compelling drama first, and fitting inside the idiom second.  For example, In The Pale Moonlight

Perhaps. But is that what Discovery is doing? Episode Seven, for instance: despite a strong beginning, it is (as Groundhog's Day episodes go) a much more standard example than other Star Trek entries of the type; it doesn't delve into devilish motivations or dilemmas, except superficially; and it doesn't have any fewer plotholes than your average Star Trek plot.

I like the story, I like the characters, but I don't think Discovery's handling of drama is any further ahead (or behind) of its competitors and peers than past Treks were of theirs.

Telling a past event could be interesting of course but force fed it to viewers is a big mistake that they didnt learned with Enterprise

The thing about Enterprise is that it does move forward - the overarching plot is built on time-travel and timeline-hopping, centered on Federation conflicts post-dating Voyager. For most episodes, era shouldn't even matter; the drama and general plot would be the same no matter what year you dressed it in.

Curiously, although some of my favorite Trek episodes come from DS9's Dominion War arc, I'm finding the earlier and later stand-alone, episodic plots much easier to watch. Likewise, I'm finding the more episodic plots from Enterprise's first two seasons easier get interested in, and having a harder time with the third and fourth seasons (which are patterned on DS9 and Voyager, respectively).

and then there's the Temporal Cold War and the whole Xindi affair (which was never mentioned before on any previous series, so obviously, it never happened)...

I kept hoping that the Kzinti were going to be one of the Xindi races.

What I dont get is the continuity: this series is supposed to be set before TOS, yet everything is so much more advanced. What happened afterwards in Kirk's timeline? Was there a technological dark age or something?  ???

The aesthetics are a mid-point between Enterprise (which looks more 21st Century) and the nuTrek movies (which look like the nuTrek movies).

[Kentares]

The thing about Enterprise is that it does move forward - the overarching plot is built on time-travel and timeline-hopping, centered on Federation conflicts post-dating Voyager. For most episodes, era shouldn't even matter; the drama and general plot would be the same no matter what year you dressed it in.

No it doesnt. Discovery is set 10 years before TOS. Im talking about that specifically. I dont want anymore stories about Star Trek past (which is what Discovery is doing). I want stories set much after VOY/DS9 (not that Enterprise time-travel and timeline-hopping nonsense).

I dont want easier episodes to watch. I want big overarching stories (hence DS9 is my favorite Star Trek show).

[Cannonshop]

No it doesnt. Discovery is set 10 years before TOS. Im talking about that specifically. I dont want anymore stories about Star Trek past (which is what Discovery is doing). I want stories set much after VOY/DS9 (not that Enterprise time-travel and timeline-hopping nonsense).

I dont want easier episodes to watch. I want big overarching stories (hence DS9 is my favorite Star Trek show).

rules of the game, Kentares-Prequels and reboots are flat easier for modern hollywood, and it's more or less in fashion at the moment.  witness: Gotham, as a prime example.

[Triptych]

It wouldn't be Trek without a top bridge, exploding consoles and throwing people around.

LOL true. Its like someone shoots at your house and your flat screen TV explodes.

[Lorcan Nagle]

I can't post it here because of the language, but you guys should go check out "to sue the world", a short piece John Scalzi wrote to promote Redshirts and performed with a variety of friends at cons and signings, which skewers a lot of the standard Trek tropes, including the good old exploding panels.

Search for John Scalzi Wootstock and the top result (with Patrick Rothfuss) is a good quality copy.

[Cannonshop]

LOL true. Its like someone shoots at your house and your flat screen TV explodes.

It's because for all their advances, starfleet is stiil ignorant of the mysterious art of circuit breakers and fuses.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Those are lostech.

[YingJanshi]

https://trekmovie.com/2017/11/05/showrunner-reveals-work-on-star-trek-discovery-season-2-to-begin-in-two-weeks/