Star Trek Discovery

[Weirdo]

Secrecy and security. If the bathroom is always in motion, it's that much harder to find.

[Kit deSummersville]

anyone have any clue what the rotating section of the saucer is supposed to actually accomplish other than look "cool"?

It's a restaurant.

[skiltao]

anyone have any clue what the rotating section of the saucer is supposed to actually accomplish other than look "cool"?

Something related to the spore drive. But nothing more specific than that, no.

[Lorcan Nagle]

anyone have any clue what the rotating section of the saucer is supposed to actually accomplish other than look "cool"?

They don't call the ship DISCO because the crew love that stuffy old fashioned music about the buttocks

[Wrangler]

Something related to the spore drive. But nothing more specific than that, no.

Every time i hear the spore drive, i keeping thinking about the space-going game Spore. 

[Daemion]

(Also, for anyone that hasn't managed to see it yet, the attachment is a good view of the Discovery. Personally I like it (cutout and all). Though if I did choose to be nitpicky, I'd say the nacelles look more like something from the late Dominion War (such as the Sovereign class) than early Kirk era. But on the whole, I like it.

Yup. That is much better than what they let leak last year.

[Cannonshop]

Well, possibly. Maybe they would have had more business if they hadn't. Maybe they wouldn't, its all just speculation.

I don't know the answer to that question, I do know that they lost MY business, beyond tracking it in the news sheets.  I'm not a fan of Special-Effects-Porn, and suspect that the writer for "babysitter luvs the Pizza Man/Teen Orgy XIV" might've done a better job with the franchise...but that's my opinion and clearly not shared by enough people that it's worth it to CBS to keep this turd in production.

[qc mech3]

Some tread necro but I was finally able to see more then the first episode this week (up to the episode with the destruction of the flying cemetery) and ll I can say is... not bad. Not excellent but still watchable as a sci-fi show.

I would have like it better if the producers simply recognize they use the Abramverse instead of the classic one (facepalm from Klingons having cloaking before the Romulans and other stuff). A lot of the cringe wort elements would make more sense.

As a Canadian, I'm glad I don't have to pay to see this but even so I found ''The Orville'' a better Star Trek the this.

[Kentares]

... I found ''The Orville'' a better Star Trek the this.

So much this!

[I am Belch II]

I think Orville is much more Star Trek then Discovery. There was a huge difference at first couple of episodes, but Discovery got some of it back for me. Too much war talk in Discovery to make it Star Trek.

[roosterboy]

Too much war talk in Discovery to make it Star Trek.

So, then, how do you reconcile that criteria for what is Star Trek with the fact that other Trek series have mentioned several previous wars involving the Federation or, in the case of DS9, shown such a war over the course of multiple seasons? Does that make them not Trek as well?

[Cannonshop]

So, then, how do you reconcile that criteria for what is Star Trek with the fact that other Trek series have mentioned several previous wars involving the Federation or, in the case of DS9, shown such a war over the course of multiple seasons? Does that make them not Trek as well?

the problem isn't so much "War talk" as "Ignorant war-talk written by writers who've never been in so much as a playground fist-fight".  Discovery retreads tropes that were false when they were used in the 1980s to demonize Vietnam veterans.  Deep Space 9 was about a thousand times more 'accurate' about the effects of war on the warriors and those around them, while being about a million times more respectful of the subject matter, and that in turn, is down to the difference between good writers like Manny Coto and Ron Moore, and no-name almost-teenager hacks that Discovery's writing room is staffed with.

[roosterboy]

the problem isn't so much "War talk" as "Ignorant war-talk written by writers who've never been in so much as a playground fist-fight".

Since the person whose opinion I was asking about actually did say there was "too much war talk" rather than criticized the kind of war talk present in the series, you'll pardon me if I just ignore the rest of your post.

[Lorcan Nagle]

and no-name almost-teenager hacks that Discovery's writing room is staffed with.

Have you actually paid attention to the writing credits on the show?

[Maingunnery]

Have you actually paid attention to the writing credits on the show?

I think that he was referring to their development level instead of their actual age.

[Lorcan Nagle]

I think that he was referring to their development level instead of their actual age.

Have you paid attention to the writing credits on the show?

[Maingunnery]

Have you paid attention to the writing credits on the show?

So meh, has-been and nobody?

None of them seem to deliver consistent quality, but that criticism can given to most writers.
There are only very few people in the entertainment industry that can be trusted upon to provide quality.

[Lorcan Nagle]

So meh, has-been and nobody?
 

So is meh the guy who co-wrote Darmok, amongst 57 other Trek scripts?  Or is has-been the woman who's written 10 well-recieved Trek novels, or maybe nobody is the guy who co-wrote and directed Star Trek II and VI?

[Cannonshop]

I think that he was referring to their development level instead of their actual age.

Bingo.

[Cannonshop]

So is meh the guy who co-wrote Darmok, amongst 57 other Trek scripts?  Or is has-been the woman who's written 10 well-recieved Trek novels, or maybe nobody is the guy who co-wrote and directed Star Trek II and VI?

They're so busy TRYING to be "Edgy and dark" that it's blatantly obvious that they're trying.  This is not the team you need to write the material they're trying to write, it's like Ruins of a book ("Ruins of Power" from the MWDA property), the writers are trying to work a sub-genre they shouldn't be because they don't do it well.  (it's very likely they don't do it well, because they don't understand the type of writing they're trying to do.  you don't ask Judy Blume to write the prequel to Stephen King's 'It", you don't have Tom Clancy try to handle the prequel to "The Devil Wears Prada", you don't ask Stephen King to do light romantic comedy.  none of those writers you're enamoured with should come within 100 meters of a piece of Military or Dark science fiction.  They don't have the levers to understand it or execute.  If it didn't say 'Star Trek' on the box, it would've died at the Pilot.)

[I am Belch II]

I was just saying in the first couple of episodes, it was the start of the Klingon War and a lot of episodes were about that. Star Trek is more about war, its discovery science and exploration and how humanity is going in to the deep space dealing with the other aliens out there. The best couple of Disco shows that I thought was the one with Harry Mudd and the time reset thing, and that one where they were on that planet trying to contact the weird aliens. To me the Klingons had almost a "Romulan" feel to them with the "bird like shape of the beacon ship" the cloaking devices, and being in hiding for a hundred years with very little contact. IMO!

[Lorcan Nagle]

They're so busy TRYING to be "Edgy and dark" that it's blatantly obvious that they're trying.  This is not the team you need to write the material they're trying to write, it's like Ruins of a book ("Ruins of Power" from the MWDA property), the writers are trying to work a sub-genre they shouldn't be because they don't do it well.  (it's very likely they don't do it well, because they don't understand the type of writing they're trying to do.  you don't ask Judy Blume to write the prequel to Stephen King's 'It", you don't have Tom Clancy try to handle the prequel to "The Devil Wears Prada", you don't ask Stephen King to do light romantic comedy.  none of those writers you're enamoured with should come within 100 meters of a piece of Military or Dark science fiction.  They don't have the levers to understand it or execute.  If it didn't say 'Star Trek' on the box, it would've died at the Pilot.)

That doesn't address the point at all

[Cannonshop]

I was just saying in the first couple of episodes, it was the start of the Klingon War and a lot of episodes were about that. Star Trek is more about war, its discovery science and exploration and how humanity is going in to the deep space dealing with the other aliens out there. The best couple of Disco shows that I thought was the one with Harry Mudd and the time reset thing, and that one where they were on that planet trying to contact the weird aliens. To me the Klingons had almost a "Romulan" feel to them with the "bird like shape of the beacon ship" the cloaking devices, and being in hiding for a hundred years with very little contact. IMO!

Klingons are whatever the owners of the IP say that they are, full stop.  Everything we in the audience knew about them before Discovery rolled out, no longer applies, and is no longer relevant or canon.

that's what they DID, and as the owners, they have that legal right to do so.

Just like converting Harry Mudd from an amoral, somewhat comical, con-man and snake-oil salesman archetype into a hyperserious homicidal maniac.  whatever he was in TOS no longer applies.  The only  things they kept were the name and the moustache.  (this being because they need to  beat the audience over the head with "This is Star Trek, Honest!! look at all the famous names we drop!!")

[Lorcan Nagle]

Just like converting Harry Mudd from an amoral, somewhat comical, con-man and snake-oil salesman archetype into a hyperserious homicidal maniac.  whatever he was in TOS no longer applies.  The only  things they kept were the name and the moustache. 

[/quote]

Have you seen TOS?  Harry Mudd was selling women as sex slaves in his first appearance. 

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

And Mudd was portrayed as a lovable rogue while he was doing so.

[Alexander Knight]

Have you seen TOS?  Harry Mudd was selling women as sex slaves in his first appearance.

Having checked the wiki, they were contracted to be brides on a second planet.  Yes, Mudd offered to trade them to the miners in exchange for crystals and Mudd's release.

The episode ends with them having married miners.

[Lorcan Nagle]

And Mudd was portrayed as a lovable rogue while he was doing so.

And maybe we should be looking more at the immoral choices and actions a person like that is willing to do before he figured out that he can get away with more by hiding his actions behind a smile? Complaining that Mudd isn't a charming conman is IMO missing the wood for the trees with his character.  He was always a horrible shit, we're just seeing him at a point where he hadn't yet fully figured out his protective coverings.

Having checked the wiki, they were contracted to be brides on a second planet.  Yes, Mudd offered to trade them to the miners in exchange for crystals and Mudd's release.

The episode ends with them having married miners.

It's probably well beyond the scope of this board and the rules of the forum to discuss why what Mudd was doing is more de facto sex slavery than de jure, and the problematic nature of the end of the episode.  So let me say that I stand by my statement while acknowledging that it's something of a simplification.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Well, I was just going to chalk it up to what was acceptable in family entertainment in the 60s vs today.

[Lorcan Nagle]

Well, I was just going to chalk it up to what was acceptable in family entertainment in the 60s vs today.

That's part of it, of course. But whenever you're writing a story that's part of a long-running franchise and your work is set in a time period covered by the same work in a different era, modern wiring sensibilities mean that you're going to but making a commentary and deconstruction of that original work by the very act of writing, even if you're not going for full on deconstruction like, Galaxy Quest or the USS Callister episode in the new series of Black Mirror do for Trek, or say Watchmen did for superheroes.

Sometimes that's going to be implicit - Captain Georgious and Admiral Cornwall's very appearances in the show are a commentary and refutation of Turnabout, Intruder for example - even if the writers didn't intend it. And sometimes it's going to be more explicit like pulling Mudd's charm back (and let's be honest, he's still charismatic here) to put the horrible acts he hid behind a smile in TOS into context.

And of course, while TOS was very progressive for its time in many ways, it was still deeply misogynistic in others. We can't celebrate the first and ignore the second.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Yeah, "progressive for its day" still means it was a product of its day.

It's not unlike what happened to Quark in-universe in Deep Space 9.  He was for a long time so progressive by Ferengi standards that other Ferengi thought he was insane, doing things like selling medical supplies to refugees at cost (actually at a slight profit) instead of price gouging for all they were worth or allowing his employees to unionize.  But by the end of the show he had instead become hopelessly conservative because Ferengi culture had changed so rapidly while he'd stayed the same.