Author Topic: Star Trek Discovery  (Read 165034 times)

gyedid

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #660 on: 08 January 2018, 05:09:43 »
I completely agree. My first thought on seeing the last episode was... what if they are from the mirror dimension and they have came through to the original timeline

Nah, the rest of the crew is still too nice to be MU people.  If they were they'd all be conniving backstabbers.  (And the female crewmembers' uniforms would be a lot more revealing.)

Unless this is not the same MU as the one we've seen before in TOS, DS9, and ST:ENT.

A leading fan theory alternative is that if Lorca's NOT from the MU, he's with Section 31, the Federation's secret black ops division, and the whole spore drive project is actually theirs.  We've seen from DS9 that their people don't represent the nicest the organization has to offer.
 
But I'm hoping they've jumped into the MU we know and love.

cheers,

Gabe
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #661 on: 08 January 2018, 05:34:45 »
New ep has dropped on Netflix Australia, but alas can't watch til my boys are in bed - so will have to console myself with pretty ships - http://www.eaglemoss.com/en-us/sci-fi-fantasy/star-trek-discovery/

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #662 on: 08 January 2018, 05:52:39 »
Well, that episode confirmed the ship's wound up in the mirror universe, I quite liked the call back to the Enterprise mirror universe episode too. Also all-but confirmed one fan theory.


EDIT:  what if Lorca is actually FROM the Mirror Universe, and his comment about going back "home" was to HIS home?  It would make a lot of his behaviour make sense, if he's a product of the MU's Terran Empire and not the "white hat" Federation...


I won't be surprised if that's the case, given mirror Lorca's status as of Discovery's incursion, and his insistence that Discovery and her crew fit in. 
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gyedid

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #663 on: 08 January 2018, 10:12:49 »
Well, that episode confirmed the ship's wound up in the mirror universe, I quite liked the call back to the Enterprise mirror universe episode too. Also all-but confirmed one fan theory.
 

I won't be surprised if that's the case, given mirror Lorca's status as of Discovery's incursion, and his insistence that Discovery and her crew fit in.

So is he going to be growing a goatee then?  ;D

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #664 on: 08 January 2018, 10:14:06 »
Well, that episode confirmed the ship's wound up in the mirror universe, I quite liked the call back to the Enterprise mirror universe episode too. Also all-but confirmed one fan theory.
 

I won't be surprised if that's the case, given mirror Lorca's status as of Discovery's incursion, and his insistence that Discovery and her crew fit in.

Still not liking this show but what if they were in a mirror universe and jumped into another mirror universe though neither of them are "our" universe"???
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #665 on: 08 January 2018, 10:53:34 »
Still not liking this show but what if they were in a mirror universe and jumped into another mirror universe though neither of them are "our" universe"???

A second parallel universe in which the Constitution class USS Defiant also wound up being accidentally sent into an evil parallel universe, but 150 years in its past?

Maybe at this point it's just easier to accept that DISCO is set in the prime timeline?
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #666 on: 08 January 2018, 10:55:17 »
A second parallel universe in which the Constitution class USS Defiant also wound up being accidentally sent into an evil parallel universe, but 150 years in its past?

Maybe at this point it's just easier to accept that DISCO is set in the prime timeline?

No. Never!
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #667 on: 08 January 2018, 10:59:07 »
You could always just enjoy the adventures of Captain Killy!
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #668 on: 08 January 2018, 11:11:24 »
Putting this show in any timeline other than the Prime one would resolve every issue I have with it to date, and make me much more willing to watch it.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #669 on: 08 January 2018, 11:28:50 »
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #670 on: 08 January 2018, 12:41:32 »
Putting this show in any timeline other than the Prime one would resolve every issue I have with it to date, and make me much more willing to watch it.

Could be the reason... give viewers a taste of a "different" ST and see how they like it - if not - change it to suit.... so a jump to the MU timeline might suits fans better :)

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #671 on: 08 January 2018, 12:43:23 »
According to after trek, this was always the plan. Like, they initially planned to do it in episode 4
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #672 on: 08 January 2018, 14:38:03 »
Ok, as a casual Star Trek fan (I've seen a chunk of the other series and TNG, some of DS9, a couple episodes of Voyager and all the movies, I think) is this worth watching. Ignore the monetary cost, sheer enjoyment value for a non-Trekkie.

You'll get two answers:

From the fanboys: Yes!! It's official Star Trek!!!!!!
From those who enjoy good writing: Only if there's nothing else on.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #673 on: 08 January 2018, 15:30:26 »
OK folks, listen up.

Over the past few days, this thread has generated more mod reports than I care to admit to. I've watched them roll in and let it go to the mods, but at this point I'm stepping in here. Because they don't deserve to have to deal with the grief they're dealing with over this thread.

So. The snarky biting back and forth? The insults? The threadcrapping for the sake of hearing your own e-voice? That stops right now. (And if you don't see much of that scrolling back through the thread? That's because the mods are doing a pretty good job of keeping things cleaned up.)

I'm relatively certain that the people posting in here are adults, who are capable of acting civilized and decent to each other. So, please do that. I'm going to be very, very steamed- above and beyond what I am right now, and that says something- if this thread needs to get locked down because a handful of people can't stop acting like uncontrolled children in here.

If you're here to discuss ST:Discovery like decent people, carry on from this point. If you're in here to just argue that it sucks over and over, your opinion has been heard and maybe it's time to let people who do enjoy it have a thread to discuss it in. And if you're here to insult each other and carry on like animals... well, we're going to have a rough day together.

Tread carefully, people. You're better than this.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #674 on: 08 January 2018, 16:19:08 »
With that in mind:

Ok, as a casual Star Trek fan (I've seen a chunk of the other series and TNG, some of DS9, a couple episodes of Voyager and all the movies, I think) is this worth watching. Ignore the monetary cost, sheer enjoyment value for a non-Trekkie.

Fair enough, do I have to be familiar (beyond passingly) with the universe?

If you know what the Federation is and who the Klingons are, you're pretty golden.  The biggest link to the franchise is that Michael Burnham, the protagonist was raised by Spock's parents, and is a few years older than him.

Speaking as someone who really enjoys the show, it has its ups and downs.  It looks great for the most part, but it's pretty clear they're stretching the budget for CG, as space shots especially are quite quick - the Expanse series 1 was much the same. The cast is mostly excellent, though a lot of people argue the Klingon prosthethics impair the performance of the actors in makeup - I disagree (especially after hearing some of them speaking Klingon outside the costumes). 

In terms of storytelling, the show moves fast.  Most episodes have a done in one A plot, and one or two ongoing B plots from episode to episode.  But for the most part these are resolved or change considerably within an episode or two.  This show burns through plot at a speed normally reserved for Agents of SHIELD.  There are a lot of moments that don't always line up, which leads to a lot of speculation.  Some of that speculation appears to be on the nose, and then other parts could be inconsistent writing.

A lot of the show's detractors claim it's not like real Star Trek, but I disagree.  The show definitely has a lot of Trek themes - even the overt war elements and morally questionable characters hews close to some elements of Deep Space Nine, and after the show takes a few episodes to set up the core cast and plot elements, there's a run of 4 weeks or so where every episode reworked some classic Trek theme or other.

Overall, I'm of the opinion that Discovery is fun, fits the milieu well, and while it has a long way to go, the first half of series 1 is at least as strong, if not stronger than the first series of all the modern Trek shows.  I fully expect it to improve as the years go by.  It's also worth noting that TNG had a similar reaction from Trekkies in the 80s, and it wasn't until the end of series 3 where it shook off that negative image in the fanbase.  But now eveybody loves it.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #675 on: 08 January 2018, 17:08:21 »
Urgh. Now, I like this show, but ****** do I hate the Mirror Universe.

Totally shocked by Tyler’s shocking act this episode. On the other hand, I didn’t really like that character anyway.

Glad to have the show back. Wish it was doing something other than a Mirror Universe arc. Care far more about what’s going on during the war back in the Prime universe.

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #676 on: 08 January 2018, 17:17:47 »
With that in mind:

If you know what the Federation is and who the Klingons are, you're pretty golden.  The biggest link to the franchise is that Michael Burnham, the protagonist was raised by Spock's parents, and is a few years older than him.

Speaking as someone who really enjoys the show, it has its ups and downs.  It looks great for the most part, but it's pretty clear they're stretching the budget for CG, as space shots especially are quite quick - the Expanse series 1 was much the same. The cast is mostly excellent, though a lot of people argue the Klingon prosthethics impair the performance of the actors in makeup - I disagree (especially after hearing some of them speaking Klingon outside the costumes). 

In terms of storytelling, the show moves fast.  Most episodes have a done in one A plot, and one or two ongoing B plots from episode to episode.  But for the most part these are resolved or change considerably within an episode or two.  This show burns through plot at a speed normally reserved for Agents of SHIELD.  There are a lot of moments that don't always line up, which leads to a lot of speculation.  Some of that speculation appears to be on the nose, and then other parts could be inconsistent writing.

A lot of the show's detractors claim it's not like real Star Trek, but I disagree.  The show definitely has a lot of Trek themes - even the overt war elements and morally questionable characters hews close to some elements of Deep Space Nine, and after the show takes a few episodes to set up the core cast and plot elements, there's a run of 4 weeks or so where every episode reworked some classic Trek theme or other.

Overall, I'm of the opinion that Discovery is fun, fits the milieu well, and while it has a long way to go, the first half of series 1 is at least as strong, if not stronger than the first series of all the modern Trek shows.  I fully expect it to improve as the years go by.  It's also worth noting that TNG had a similar reaction from Trekkies in the 80s, and it wasn't until the end of series 3 where it shook off that negative image in the fanbase.  But now eveybody loves it.

Thank you, I'll give it a try.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #677 on: 08 January 2018, 17:33:45 »
Urgh. Now, I like this show, but ****** do I hate the Mirror Universe.

I was definitely bored of it by the end of DS9, but Tilly talking to the other ship made it all worthwhile.  Also, think of how much effort it must have taken to straighten Mary Wiseman's hair!
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #678 on: 09 January 2018, 04:59:21 »
The Mirror Universe is a bad evil universe. It is the total opposite of what the Star Trek Prime universe is. I just find it very odd that most people are still alive and doing just fine in fact better in that universe.
I like the Mirror Universe when portrayed as close as it can be to the "Mirror Mirror" episode in TOS. The DS9 versions were not that episode. They were in that  universe but the history and the fall of the empire was a little shaky to me.
I still think that Episode was one of the best Disco episodes up to that point. It had a some good parts and did really good at making it a Mirror episode. I don't have a problem with Ash acting the way he did. It pretty much confirmed all the rumors that were about him. Him killing that Doctor is what a spy would do if his secret is known to the other side.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #679 on: 09 January 2018, 07:01:54 »
ST Enterprise arguable had the best episode where they recovered the USS Defiant during the Archer era.  That episode suggested that set into motion rise of the Empire.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #680 on: 09 January 2018, 12:00:53 »
Everyone knows the Mirror universe was set in motion by Picard medling with Cochrane and the first contact with Vulcans.

It's detailed in William Shatner's Mirror universe books :D

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #681 on: 09 January 2018, 12:39:15 »
Everyone knows the Mirror universe was set in motion by Picard medling with Cochrane and the first contact with Vulcans.

It's detailed in William Shatner's Mirror universe books :D

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #682 on: 09 January 2018, 15:04:11 »
Everyone knows the Mirror universe was set in motion by Picard medling with Cochrane and the first contact with Vulcans.

It's detailed in William Shatner's Mirror universe books :D

Well, Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens' books that Shatner is credited with...
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #683 on: 10 January 2018, 06:44:13 »
ST Enterprise arguable had the best episode where they recovered the USS Defiant during the Archer era.  That episode suggested that set into motion rise of the Empire.


I agree it was by fat the best episode of Enterprise!
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #684 on: 10 January 2018, 07:46:08 »

I agree it was by fat the best episode of Enterprise!
Its too bad ST:D didn't choose try least match the styles /era /tech more. I won't have such repulse what i've seen of it.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #685 on: 10 January 2018, 11:29:31 »
I've really come around to the style of Discovery. I still don't think it's High Art, but neither will I reject it for doing its own thing. The Klingon Bird of Prey now looking like a Giger-esque nightmare actually made me smile.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #686 on: 10 January 2018, 12:55:29 »
I've really come around to the style of Discovery. I still don't think it's High Art, but neither will I reject it for doing its own thing. The Klingon Bird of Prey now looking like a Giger-esque nightmare actually made me smile.
It's not about the style being the issue. It doesn't match the past.  If it resembles something from that era, it would make sense.

If a company says their show is set in the past before Star Trek, it's based (suppose to be) in the past of the original show (not a remake of it, or reimage of it) then it should at least FIT in with it.  That's my main issue.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #687 on: 10 January 2018, 13:42:41 »
I'll admit I have a similar mindset and it seems actually disrespectful of the efforts of previous production teams and the fans to try and say this is supposed to be in the past and in the same continuity as TOS.

If they said it wasn't in the past, the same continuity, or preferably both from what I've managed to watch via youtube, I'd certainly have a more vested interest in actually watching this show and probably would have put down the money to at least watch it on my computer.

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #688 on: 10 January 2018, 16:15:39 »
Star Trek has been wildly visually inconsistent in the past, this is just more of the same.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #689 on: 10 January 2018, 18:21:31 »
That is sort of true.

I can accept changing uniforms.  The new ones look far and away better than the TOS uniforms but they do look too different.

I even kind of like the Shenzou, Discovery not so much(secondary hull looks too flat and boring for my taste) but it isn't a deal breaker, and the other Federation ships.  Those all at least look related to what we've seen in TOS and TNG(if a bit fancier and more heavily armed).

TNG changed the look of the Klingons sure but the D7s still looked like TOS D7s.  DS9's D7s also looked like TOS D7s.  VOY even had an episode where a D7 appeared and it still looked like a TOS D7.  So it isn't impossible or even unreasonable that the D7 and Birds of Prey can look like D7s and Birds of Prey as we know them.

The Klingons themselves, I wouldn't mind them if they didn't sound like they were in pain whenever trying to speak their lines or the prosthetics didn't so obviously eliminate range of motion and facial expression.

It is just too much for me to feel worth investing in what I would need to watch it.

 

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