Author Topic: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)  (Read 26529 times)

Pa Weasley

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’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« on: 15 August 2013, 23:04:49 »
’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)

Loki Mk II (Hel), Technical Readout: 3145 (The Clans). p.43

You can almost forgive Inner Sphere intelligence services for designating the newly observed machine the Loki Mk II. They had spent the last several decades watching the once and future Clan Sea Fox pumping out ‘Mechs tagged with an Mk II/III/ MMMCXLV/etc. designation. This sixty-five ton OmniMech does bear more than a passing resemblance to the iconic Loki that, frankly, boggled the minds of those same agencies nearly a century prior. The Clans themselves could recognize that the soul of the ‘Mech had changed. When the Hell’s Horses unveiled their new heavy it was christened the Hel. Perhaps whatever Technician or Scientist who recommended the moniker was being a bit cheeky as not only is it a shortened version of its predecessor’s proper name, but Hel is also the daughter of the mythological Loki. With the Hellbringer being such a prominent part of their touman, it’s not surprising that the Jade Falcons would acquire the rights to manufacture its successor. It has been spotted in the ranks of the other Clans since its introduction a few years before Gray Monday.

While the Hellbringer spared nearly every expense (rather famously including armor protection) in its quest for pod space and speed, the Horses went for a different approach the second time around. Weight was shaved were ever possible, stopping just short of importing Inner Sphere made gyroscopes. Even the size of the XL engine was reduced. With flank speeds of just 64 kph the Hel is more in line with its Inner Sphere counterparts and heavier Clan machines. Playfully derogatory nicknames like “Slowki” aside that’s sufficient speed to keep up with a fluid battlefield and bring a frequently long-ranged armament to bear. What was a somewhat eyebrow-raising choice was the inclusion of a small cockpit. Knowing Clan warriors they might argue successfully piloting in such conditions as a mark of superior breeding or some such nonsense. The end result of all that trimming is that the Hel has forty tons available for pods. Please re-read that last sentence. Yep, that’s just shy of 62% of the Mech’s weight dedicated to readily swapped weapons and equipment. No other OmniMech yet constructed comes remotely close. If you want to find Omnis with an equal or greater volume you have to look to assault class models. Thankfully the Horses learned from the past. This dedication to potential pod space doesn’t come at the price of armor. Or at least to the same degree as the Loki. Nine and half tons of Compound H17 ferro-fibrous stands between the Hel’s crunchy internal components and various things attempting to damage them. The forward upper sections actually have protection fairly comparable to other heavy ‘Mechs like the Flamberge and more recent incarnations of the Thunderbolt. The center torso passes the double-Gauss slug test with the remaining torso sections and arms capable of handling the heaviest of autocannon rounds. The legs are where the armor is relatively thin. The coverage is only marginally better than the arms. On the bright side, smart terrain utilization can help mitigate this issue. Regardless the popular term “pocket assault” absolutely applies to the Loki Mk II, though it’s perhaps the smallest ‘Mech to take the label. “Coin purse assault” may be applicable but it’s hardly going to catch on. Still, configurations can make or break an OmniMech. While only three standard configurations are known at this time they certainly make full use of that forty tons.

Loki Mk II (Hel) Prime – Mounting a Gauss rifle and an ER large laser in each arm, the Primary configuration of the Hel is a terrifying long range combatant. The twin Gauss rifles are fed by three tons of reloads. Some would probably prefer an extra ton of slugs to have been snuck into the chassis but two minutes of sustained fire is pretty solid in my book. A Streak SRM 4 launcher rests atop the right torso for peppering targets that manage to make it into shorter ranges. The final components are a double heat sink mounted in both the head and the center torso. As an aside, the remaining configurations also stuff heat sinks into this available space. Not enough to fire all the long-ranged weapons and stay heat neutral. But the heat buildup is negligible and any MechWarrior worth their neurohelmet should be able to manage.

Loki Mk II (Hel) A – The Loki Mk II A is reminiscent of the Hellbringer Prime at least in terms of having an eclectic mix of weapons and equipment. The arms share a pair of ER PPCs like its predecessor’s Prime configuration. Slung under the barrel of each Clan-made MechWarrior nightmare is a medium pulse laser. Tucked in the left torso and supplied two tons of ammo is an LB 10-X autocannon. Prized after all these years for its versatility, the LB 10-X is a favorite of many, myself included. A quartet of explosive weapons can be found in the right torso. Two improved medium heavy lasers and two AP Gauss rifles specifically. Just beware of a chain reaction that could result in the loss of not just the torso but the MechWarrior to boot. Finally the protective bubble of an Angel ECM suite and six double heat sinks round out the configuration. I have a soft spot for “a gun for every situation, a gun for every enemy” configurations and the Hel A is a shining example. Nearly anything short of a dropship needs to be a wee bit nervous when the A takes the field. Just don’t go off and start alpha striking unless you really need to end an engagement in short order.

Loki Mk II (Hel) B – The long tom cannon occupying the entire left half of the Hel B is not a common weapon, especially on Clan machines. Capable of damaging anything within a roughly 45 meter radius of the point of impact the cannon is intended to quickly obliterate concentrations of enemy units. Or forces them to scatter and be more easily picked off. Star Captain Henry of Clan Jade Falcon aptly demonstrated that the Clans willingness to be more … tactically flexible using these massive guns. Coming under attack from Wolf-in-Exile forces, he ordered his Star to target the underlying terrain. The ensuing rock slide caught everyone involved in the battle but helped turn the momentum against the Wolf Nova. Complementing the long range of the long tom cannon is an ER large laser and sufficient heat sinks to fire both with minimal heat issues. Should anything actually managed to get within 360 meters of the Hel B has to deal with quad medium pulse lasers as well. Finally, the cannon has been provided with fifteen rounds. To sum it up this configuration is a horrifying sight to a modern combined arms army.

The Version Delta-II targeting and tracking system also demonstrates how comfortable the Clans have become with Inner Sphere tactics in their century of occupation. The Delta-II is capable of tracking and firing on numerous targets without degradation of the accuracy of its targeting solutions. [So that was just an overly complicated in-universe description of the Multi-Track quirk] Gone is the culture that designed ‘Mechs solely with single combat and duels in mind; of course taking up the entire left side of the Hel B with a direct-fire, area effect weapon was a subtle indicator as well.

With the Loki Mk II in their respective toumen, it should be no surprise that the combined forces of Clans Jade Falcon and Hell’s Horse were able to so quickly make their terror-fueled descent into the heart of the Inner Sphere. Cavernous pod space, configurations intended to quickly crush opponents, and reasonable armor coverage culminate in a single-minded killer. The Hel certainly garners even greater fear and respect than its spiritual ancestor when the Loki first marched across the worlds of the Federated Commonwealth and Draconis Combine generations ago.
« Last Edit: 16 August 2013, 07:17:51 by Pa Weasley »

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II[ (Hel)
« Reply #1 on: 15 August 2013, 23:11:15 »
 [drool] [drool] [drool]

Thaaaaaaaaaaaaaat is a sexy beast.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II[ (Hel)
« Reply #2 on: 15 August 2013, 23:19:18 »
I absolutely adore the Hellbringer II (I absolutely refuse to call it the Hel).  Forty tons of podspace is insane, and in exactly the opposite way I describe the original Hellbringer.  The good way.  Put simply: that much podspace is as much as a Templar.  Yes, the Hellbringer II has as much podspace as an Assault 'Mech that's literally 33% and twenty tons heavier than it is.  Thanks to a Clan XL engine, I'd also say it's a sight more durable, too.

The Prime is an absolutely devastating sniper, though I too would probably rather forgo the SRM and instead load up on another ton of ammo, plus DHSs where the rest of the launcher used to go.  That's a minor quibble, and the short range deterrent is nice.  I like the B, but for some strange reason, I can't help but think I'd like it even better if it dropped the LBX down at -5 class, and then used the saved tonnage to either add a couple more heatsinks and lasers, or alternately an SSRM-6.  The Hel-B (the only time I'll ever call it that, because it makes me giggle) is a warcrime waiting to happen, and the thought of Hellbie with a Hel-B raining Hell on an enemy is probably the best mental picture I've had in weeks.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II[ (Hel)
« Reply #3 on: 15 August 2013, 23:32:03 »
First thoughts, having not actually seen the design in question ('cause I'm poor), I'm not sure whether I can like it or not.

It's the insistence on calling it the Loki II, really. With proper armor protection and reasonable design decisions, it does not seem to be a proper successor to the Hellbringer's creeping madness. As an apostle of our dark lord of suicidal insanity, I find the comparison an affront by a Night Gyr clone that wishes it could be that Metal. In a way, the clan name of Hel only seems appropriate for a machine that could never truly measure up to such a titan of hardcore lunacy.

On the other hand, one of the configurations carries a short tom.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II[ (Hel)
« Reply #4 on: 15 August 2013, 23:41:25 »
It's really the Hellbringer done right.  Upped armor with Ferro and the inclusion of Endo to something a bit more than "Internal Structure double bonus" levels.

Also, please keep in mind: FORTY TONS OF PODSPACE.  That's levels of insanity that the Hellbringer can only hope to reach.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II[ (Hel)
« Reply #5 on: 15 August 2013, 23:41:52 »
hmm.. does this new mech's supplanting of the classic mean that post jihad/reavings, Clan Coyote is the last clan to use the classic Hellbringer in any numbers?  :D :D

a very interesting unit.. and i agree, 40 tons of podspace is really really scary. that Prime config is basically a Devestator.. which given the Hel is about 2/3rds the size, is terrifying..
« Last Edit: 15 August 2013, 23:50:37 by glitterboy2098 »

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II[ (Hel)
« Reply #6 on: 16 August 2013, 00:05:06 »
 The Helbringer as it should have been! I will miss the speed but WOW! 40 tons of pod space. I will call it the Hel. She is a monster to be reckoned with! Thank you TPTB for this.
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Kotetsu

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II[ (Hel)
« Reply #7 on: 16 August 2013, 00:22:20 »
Intereting... Wasn't there a Loki II somewhere before? Think it had nickname Hades or somesuch...

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II[ (Hel)
« Reply #8 on: 16 August 2013, 01:01:42 »
I do like this design even if I would have preferred to loose some of the pod space for a bit more armor, and the configurations run the whole range.

The Prime is ok and could be fantastic if it dropped the SSRM for more DHS and ammo, but it is fairly limited as is.

The A on the other hand is a major letdown due to its insistence on mounting the single worst weapon in the Clan arsenal, although this could be fixed easily enough by upgrading the 10-X to a real weapon like the 5-X and investing the freed weight into more short range lasers.  As is, it is really no better armed than some Timber Wolf configurations which beat it on speed and armor which makes the whole point of the new omni moot.

That said, the B is an absolute monster, especially with multi-track to split the laser and BFG at long range.  I would have configured the secondary arsenal slightly differently to give it another ton of ammo and an anti-infantry mount if I were designing it, but that is really just details because those guns are really just backup and that monster of a gun will make short work of any infantry unit caught in the blast.


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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II[ (Hel)
« Reply #9 on: 16 August 2013, 01:07:32 »
Probably the only actual 'Mech in TRO 3145: Clans that I didn't care for.  If it's a Clan Heavy OmniMech that doesn't move at least 5/8, then I'm not interested.  To be honest, I didn't even notice the small cockpit the first read-through, so that little feature definitely takes it off of my "interested" list.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II[ (Hel)
« Reply #10 on: 16 August 2013, 01:13:18 »
I love the Slowki. I call it that out of love, by the way, not contempt. At 5/8 the Hellbringer was kooky and zany and all but it didn't bring anything to the table that the Timber Wolf or Summoner couldn't at least approximate without being so easy to remove from the battlefield. At 4/6, however, the Hel has a niche. It doesn't try to compete with all the faster heavies on speed or durability. It doesn't try to compete with the Flamberge on maneuverable...hm. Well, I might have to try making a 4/6/6 Hel. It won't have the weird fixed SRMs, though! Anyway, it's just an enormous pile of guns with feet. In fact, as I've remarked before, if 'Mechs were pod-mountable the Hel could carry a pair of Gùns.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II[ (Hel)
« Reply #11 on: 16 August 2013, 02:47:35 »
It's really the Hellbringer done right.  Upped armor with Ferro and the inclusion of Endo to something a bit more than "Internal Structure double bonus" levels.

Also, please keep in mind: FORTY TONS OF PODSPACE.  That's levels of insanity that the Hellbringer can only hope to reach.

It's a wuss mech that has to hide behind wuss things like good design choices. No mech that relies on anything other mindbending suicidal insanity to get the job done has a right to the hallowed name of Hellbringer. The Hellbringer isn't numbers and stats, its a state of mind. It's a way of life.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II[ (Hel)
« Reply #12 on: 16 August 2013, 05:25:47 »
A great review of a superb machine in a really good book! The Slowki is how its older brother should have been and its yet another sign that the clans have finally learned to not go 'disregard armour and heatsinks! Aquire guns and speed!' and use their tech efficiently and cleverly.  (I say that whilst trying to stand infront of the quadvee in the background).
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II[ (Hel)
« Reply #13 on: 16 August 2013, 06:43:02 »
I'm glad to see the Clans producing the Hel. It's a nice place to hang my Nova Cat configurations after the demise of the Cats themselves. I'm not a fan of the small cockpit in general, but I guess the quality of Clan pilots balances it out and its interesting to see the tourney legal of the future.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II[ (Hel)
« Reply #14 on: 16 August 2013, 13:37:20 »
It's a way of life.
A pretty short one though.  ;D


So if you count in the Wolfs Blood Reaper and Tundrawolf (even though they aren't Omnis), only the Bears are now missing their own pocket assault?

Diablo48

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II[ (Hel)
« Reply #15 on: 16 August 2013, 17:41:52 »
A pretty short one though.  ;D


So if you count in the Wolfs Blood Reaper and Tundrawolf (even though they aren't Omnis), only the Bears are now missing their own pocket assault?

Well, we did have a lot of Nova Cats kicking around from our games with the cats and a few of our standard designs might qualify, but what it really comes down to is the fact that we produce tons of very nice assaults so there is really no need for a pocket version.


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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #16 on: 16 August 2013, 17:50:26 »
The Slowki is a nice mech if you're on a budget. It has the firepower of bigger mechs at a lower cost.

Just don't get it blown up though.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #17 on: 16 August 2013, 18:23:27 »
Well, damn if the Horses dont suddenly have a brutal Mech corps between the Hellstar, other stuff they produce jointly with the Wolves/Exiles, and now this. 

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #18 on: 16 August 2013, 19:01:21 »
I'm amazed that the Horses now have a serious Omni that hasn't had its factory captured by another Clan. I think we might just become a serious faction. And with all the firepower of a Hel Backed by Hellbringer flankers, I think I'm in for a very good time!
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II[ (Hel)
« Reply #19 on: 16 August 2013, 19:57:08 »
A pretty short one though.  ;D


So if you count in the Wolfs Blood Reaper and Tundrawolf (even though they aren't Omnis), only the Bears are now missing their own pocket assault?

You do have a pocket assault, it's called the Executioner  8)

This thing is a monster... 40 tons of pod space on a 65 ton mech???  Yeesh.  It screams for iJJ's with that much space and 4/6 ground speed.


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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #20 on: 16 August 2013, 21:20:40 »
Putting on six IJJs leaves you with 28 tons of podspace.  Hilariously, only half a ton less than the original Hellbringer, and half a ton more than the classic Timber Wolf.  Granted, less heatsinks and a bit less armor.

Still.  Let the shenanigans commence.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #21 on: 16 August 2013, 21:54:52 »
Amazing capacities with thing, 40 tons you could throw a medium 'mech into it if had one big storage hole.

I don't know if this would be as useful in raid, since its bit slow to get away with combat vehicles and 'Mech that usually end up doing 5/8 or better. 

Still in assault....wam bam thank you for the gunnery spam.  Man. This is a beast of a machine.  Thanks for write up PA Weasley!
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #22 on: 16 August 2013, 22:53:57 »
I wonder....the last we heard, the only clan that was really interested in the Hellbringer was the Coyotes. The Coyotes used to have good ties with the Horses. Probably no way in heck.... but it amuses me slightly to think of it that way.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #23 on: 16 August 2013, 23:56:48 »
I think I'll use this as the anchor of a battle star. It looks like it can form a nice anvil, with things like Thor IIs or Gyrfalcons acting as the hammers. So long as I remember that it isn't as durable as more traditional Falcon anvils(Night Gyr, any Omni over 80 tons, etc), things should work nicely.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #24 on: 17 August 2013, 02:38:59 »
Very leery of the 182 points of armour on the 4/5 chassis. It wasn't enough on a Marauder 3R and it isn't enough here.

BV may have its limitations in balancing a battle, but it does give a good indication of the capabilities of a conventionally armed 'Mech. That none of the variants climb over 2300 while the Vulture III only has one variant under 2299 speaks volumes.

This thing is going to need as much escorting as a regular Hellbringer, with less chance of getting out of trouble.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #25 on: 17 August 2013, 12:11:54 »
Yeah. It is still rather thin skinned but will get a lot of attention which can be a dangerous combination.


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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #26 on: 17 August 2013, 18:02:36 »
I can't wait to see a mini of this. I can't wait to field a mini of this.  :)
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #27 on: 18 August 2013, 10:04:45 »
Putting on six IJJs leaves you with 28 tons of podspace.  Hilariously, only half a ton less than the original Hellbringer, and half a ton more than the classic Timber Wolf.  Granted, less heatsinks and a bit less armor.

Still.  Let the shenanigans commence.

I'd rather have less pod space and jump 6 with this thing.  It's armor is worrisome at 4/6.  28 tons of pod space is enough to well arm a 65 ton mech.


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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #28 on: 18 August 2013, 10:55:23 »
Perhaps it is just me, but I see very little reason to be concerned about the Hel's armor. Most of the locations are only a few points shy of their maximum. The legs are the only exception, being nine points from max. (In this case, I consider the front and rear center torso to be separate locations. There are a possible five more points to put on the two locations and, when divided between them, that is not very much.) So, alongside 40 tons of pod space and a largely long-range armament, I would consider this to be a well armored 'Mech that excels in the support role. And, as Scotty has pointed out, it would not be hard to throw on six IJJs and a large number of pulse lasers to turn this thing into a bouncing infighter that is sure to give the enemy kittens.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #29 on: 19 August 2013, 05:48:31 »
It is often about the attention a 'Mech will get. The Hel is a 4/6 moving 40t warload package. It is not that hard to hit, it is fairly thin skinned- so why not shoot at it? It is too dangerous to let it live and not that hard to kill.




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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II[ (Hel)
« Reply #30 on: 19 August 2013, 06:58:39 »
You do have a pocket assault, it's called the Executioner  8)

This thing is a monster... 40 tons of pod space on a 65 ton mech???  Yeesh.  It screams for iJJ's with that much space and 4/6 ground speed.

Surprisingly there were not any IJJ Mechs in 3145 Clans seems weird considering the last few TROs with Clan Mechs have been full of them - maybe just a shift away from new toy syndrome.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #31 on: 19 August 2013, 10:24:54 »
I made one with ijj's. I wasn't impressed.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #32 on: 19 August 2013, 16:48:25 »
Well, they also didn't have a suicide machine (that I saw).

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #33 on: 19 August 2013, 20:13:20 »
It is often about the attention a 'Mech will get. The Hel is a 4/6 moving 40t warload package. It is not that hard to hit, it is fairly thin skinned- so why not shoot at it? It is too dangerous to let it live and not that hard to kill.

So rather than give the Hel a unique role as a high payload support unit, something akin to the Mad Dog, it should have been another Thor or Timber Wolf? I really don't think we need another 5/8/x heavy cav 'Mech when they are already well represented in the TRO. The Hel is a long range support chassis, designed to carry a large number of long-range weapons to support the heavier designs that can carry the armor to survive a close-in battle. Park this thing in some good cover--especially behind a level one hill, which can turn potential hits into misses while defending the more fragile legs--and let this baby go to work. It has a good amount of armor, especially for a support design, and can survive a few shots from the enemy.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #34 on: 19 August 2013, 23:20:44 »
I was wondering, is the 'Hel' Designation official or is it our nickname for it?
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #35 on: 19 August 2013, 23:29:00 »
It's official, and in a way, fitting as well, being a reference to both the old clan name (Hellbringer, shortened) and the IS name (Loki, in mythology the father of Hel).

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #36 on: 20 August 2013, 00:25:33 »
So rather than give the Hel a unique role as a high payload support unit, something akin to the Mad Dog, it should have been another Thor or Timber Wolf? I really don't think we need another 5/8/x heavy cav 'Mech when they are already well represented in the TRO. The Hel is a long range support chassis, designed to carry a large number of long-range weapons to support the heavier designs that can carry the armor to survive a close-in battle. Park this thing in some good cover--especially behind a level one hill, which can turn potential hits into misses while defending the more fragile legs--and let this baby go to work. It has a good amount of armor, especially for a support design, and can survive a few shots from the enemy.

That does not really work for the Clans unless you want to load up on UAC 2's or artillery (which is actually not a terrible idea with that much pod space).  Brawlers are uncommon among the Clans because most of their tech advantage over the IS goes into increasing long range performance so most of those heavily armored line fighters you described are going to want to fight from the same range as the Hel, especially against IS tech.  Trading a ton of pod space for more armor across the torso would have helped, but this is really a fundamental problem with the pocket assault concept so the only way to truly fix without adding another 20 tons to the frame is special armor (preferably FL) and maybe some other tricks like reinforced IS to make it more durable.


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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #37 on: 20 August 2013, 01:21:32 »
While the original Loki/Hellbringer was all about guns and speed, screw armor, this new Loki Mk II/Hel seems to be about guns, more guns and a little more armor added on the side, screw speed.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #38 on: 20 August 2013, 17:50:20 »
That does not really work for the Clans unless you want to load up on UAC 2's or artillery (which is actually not a terrible idea with that much pod space).  Brawlers are uncommon among the Clans because most of their tech advantage over the IS goes into increasing long range performance so most of those heavily armored line fighters you described are going to want to fight from the same range as the Hel, especially against IS tech.  Trading a ton of pod space for more armor across the torso would have helped, but this is really a fundamental problem with the pocket assault concept so the only way to truly fix without adding another 20 tons to the frame is special armor (preferably FL) and maybe some other tricks like reinforced IS to make it more durable.

I definitely agree that pocket assaults are difficult to pull off, especially with 60 ton and 65 ton chassis. It really would be more reasonable to use 4/6/x 80 ton machines. Not as expensive as a high end 100 tonner, but capable of carrying the extra tonnage and not missing the loss of movement overly much. However, the increasing use of ATM launchers, HAG systems, and heavy lasers show a Clan military that is willing to close the range gap with its opponents and hammer them with more potent CQC weaponry. We have designs built for that that share the same TRO as the Hel.

Thor II B only gets more dangerous the closer it gets thanks to the ATM launchers, while retaining the option of staying at range while it whittles down a target with the LRM racks. Warwolf C and H are certainly at their best when they get close to the enemy to make use of their ATMs/Pulse Lasers and Heavy Large Lasers, respectively. Outside of the TRO we have the Vulture Mk. IV Prime, C, and D; there is also Mad Cat Mk. IV A and B. All of these are better at getting in close to an enemy and exploiting their greater damage potential at shorter ranges than similar Inner Sphere designs.There are also older designs, like Nova Prime, Stormcrow B, and Man O' War C that are all about mixing it up at close range, though they are probably rare in this era.

Oddly enough the Vulture III, a design that I really expected to fight more like the Hel, has a pair of variants designed to get close to the enemy and hammer them with short-range missiles. With something so close in weight that it only reinforces the need for having the Hel operate as differently as possible to provide a product that doesn't feel like it is set on repeat. Hardly an in-universe explanation, I know, but I think it is worth keeping in mind.

When I look at the Hel, I see a machine that is built to fill a support role in the Jade Falcon Touman. The Falcon's aggressive combat style means that more of their warriors are willing to mix it up with the enemy and they need somebody to hang back and support them. Why not use a machine that is carrying twin gauss rifles and ER large lasers? (Very Rifleman like, come to think of it...) Or a Long Tom? It certainly beats out the Gyrfalcon, though the Shrike is hard to argue with as being the better option. Talk about a nasty ride!

Then again, maybe I just like the machine too much. It is quite possible that I am over-defending it. :D

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #39 on: 20 August 2013, 20:40:38 »
The Hellbringer II as Rifleman done right?  I can buy it.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #40 on: 21 August 2013, 02:43:45 »
Anyone else has a problem with the idea of a Clan "Support" Mech?
Sure, there are others, like the Naga, but the Hel is a frontline Omni!
Besides, its from the Horses, shouldn't they use their vees for the support roles?
Or did just everything that defined the Clans go out of the window in those 50 years? :(

I was wondering, is the 'Hel' Designation official or is it our nickname for it?
Did you even read the article?

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #41 on: 21 August 2013, 03:25:40 »
'Support' is only how we players would classify it, and even then I'm not sure I agree.

Sure, it's lower on armor than some 65 tonners, but it's also the Hellbringer's clear descendent.  A 'Mech like this, I would use the same way I use the original Hellbringer, which is to charge into battle like a madman (using cover and limiting engagements appropriately) and then tape down the triggers until things start falling off one or both combatants, and then just tape down more triggers now that you have the spare heat sinks for it.

Brawl hard.  You don't have the armor of a 75 ton Omni, but no 75 ton Omni has your firepower, either.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #42 on: 21 August 2013, 05:42:31 »
Anyone else has a problem with the idea of a Clan "Support" Mech?
Sure, there are others, like the Naga, but the Hel is a frontline Omni!
Besides, its from the Horses, shouldn't they use their vees for the support roles?
Or did just everything that defined the Clans go out of the window in those 50 years? :(
Did you even read the article?

The Clans use to have issues with support mechs but that's clearly slowly changed over the years with machines more capable of multiple roles without going to extremes of I WILL DO THIS REALLY WELL! but be terrible at absolutely everything else.  Also the changes in the Clans to me show that they are producing more rational and well rounded designs instead of the battlecruiser concept of the invasion.  By battlecruiser I mean firepower and speed at the expense of armour, this rang true for pritty much every mech up to the Warhawk and Direwolf.  Clan mechs tended to be as fast as the average mech of a the next lighter weight class (Heavies moving like mediums, mediums moving like lights in some cases) and packed a MASSIVE punch but lacked the ability to really use this armament without some serious heat management juggling, and then there was the armour, clan mechs tended to be under armoured until you got into the big boys.

That the clans are more willing to design a more balanced machine that does not emphasise one thing over another is more that they have learned what the Inner Sphere is like, what they fight like and what to expect.  The older machines were great for the then highly stylised style of warfare the Clans used, but against people not willing to use Zell and practiced with working together as a group rather than highly skilled individuals it did have some shortcomings. 

The Clans are now making machines in the reality of the Inner Sphere and their more balanced and rounded designs are far more lethal for it. 

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #43 on: 21 August 2013, 06:03:00 »
The Clans use to have issues with support mechs but that's clearly slowly changed over the years with machines more capable of multiple roles without going to extremes of I WILL DO THIS REALLY WELL! but be terrible at absolutely everything else.  Also the changes in the Clans to me show that they are producing more rational and well rounded designs instead of the battlecruiser concept of the invasion.  By battlecruiser I mean firepower and speed at the expense of armour, this rang true for pritty much every mech up to the Warhawk and Direwolf.  Clan mechs tended to be as fast as the average mech of a the next lighter weight class (Heavies moving like mediums, mediums moving like lights in some cases) and packed a MASSIVE punch but lacked the ability to really use this armament without some serious heat management juggling, and then there was the armour, clan mechs tended to be under armoured until you got into the big boys.

That the clans are more willing to design a more balanced machine that does not emphasise one thing over another is more that they have learned what the Inner Sphere is like, what they fight like and what to expect.  The older machines were great for the then highly stylised style of warfare the Clans used, but against people not willing to use Zell and practiced with working together as a group rather than highly skilled individuals it did have some shortcomings. 

The Clans are now making machines in the reality of the Inner Sphere and their more balanced and rounded designs are far more lethal for it.
Hm, a true second generation Woodsmen would be interesting, lots of podspace and a decent speed

But what you describe is nothing compared to something that's been rattling around inside my head for a while

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #44 on: 21 August 2013, 06:45:52 »
I've not got the book with the woodsman in it but it seems like a formidable machine, a more modern and 'rational' Clans version would probably have an XL 300 rated engine with tonnage going to heat sinks and fire control systems and/or ammo.  The A variant, a pure energy boat's formidably armed and you could probably expect an ATM variant as the Clans are cramming those onto everything that can carry them it seems.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #45 on: 21 August 2013, 06:47:16 »
Did you even read the article?

I did, but in the TRO I found no reference to the 'Hel' part so I was curious about it.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #46 on: 21 August 2013, 07:30:46 »
I did, but in the TRO I found no reference to the 'Hel' part so I was curious about it.

Let me direct you to the following post in the errata thread.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #47 on: 21 August 2013, 11:26:14 »
'Support' is only how we players would classify it, and even then I'm not sure I agree.

Sure, it's lower on armor than some 65 tonners, but it's also the Hellbringer's clear descendent.  A 'Mech like this, I would use the same way I use the original Hellbringer, which is to charge into battle like a madman (using cover and limiting engagements appropriately) and then tape down the triggers until things start falling off one or both combatants, and then just tape down more triggers now that you have the spare heat sinks for it.

Brawl hard.  You don't have the armor of a 75 ton Omni, but no 75 ton Omni has your firepower, either.

Other than the Night Gyr - it's an extremely even match in raw firepower at 38 tons of pod space, 12 fixed heat sinks, 4 fixed jump jets.  I haven't tried it but I think you could actually fit the Night Gyr D onto a Hel, although you'd probably have to rearrange the crits a bit.  Hels have 5 more crits but you get to pay 4 of them and your extra podspace back out to match the Night Gyr's greater number of fixed heat sinks and you're not getting the jump jets.

The Flamberge and especially the Nova Cat are no slouches in this department, either, although I'm not sure of the Flamberge's configurations sometimes.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #48 on: 05 January 2014, 07:28:00 »
Moonsword, I just want to call you out again: great job indeed!

I gave you the MechCommander-Loki-W straightjacket for the Prime, but I love the little details of your device, the small cockpit, and most of all, Configuration B. It's become a quick favourite, powerful enough to defend itself, clever enough to be a gigantic threat to battle armor.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #49 on: 05 January 2014, 13:38:13 »
Which would be why the Hel is so slow - the podspace is a requirement for the armaments on the Prime, not the goal in and of itself.  You can get similar practical tonnage out of an XXL 5/8 design, but you do wind up losing two tons (at minimum) on top of the increased heat load and the increased vulnerability of the engine.  Not really worth it in my opinion.

It's also a demonstration of how the design process works.  While I had a lot of freedom about how I went about doing it, the weapons load on the Prime wasn't up for discussion (all 34 tons of it, more than any of the original heavy Omnis can manage, or any of the assaults short of the Dire Wolf), nor was the tonnage.  Personally, I also promised myself that I wouldn't pull the annoying cop-out of only loading just two tons of Gauss ammo.  That meant that whatever happened, this design had to max out the podspace to stuff at least 38 tons of gear on, and I also wanted to beg, borrow, or steal the tonnage to beef the armor up to acceptable levels.  The small cockpit came directly from that particular goal.

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« Last Edit: 05 January 2014, 13:40:14 by Moonsword »

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #50 on: 05 January 2014, 18:01:18 »
Am I the only one questioning why there isn't a CQB configuration?  This thing can carry 2 of the 20 types plus a brace of pulses and absolutely devastate anything at close range.  Its already has the speed of a Hunchback-type brawler, why not go all the way?  Hell, you've already got Gausszilla at range, why not have Ultrazilla roaming the streets?  I'm as against muchie-ness as the next guy, maybe more so, but all of the listed configurations are focused on long-range combat and that just seems very focused for a group of scientists that gave it 40 tons of pod space.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #51 on: 05 January 2014, 18:40:39 »
Probably because 4/6 just doesn't cut it for a short range brawler in 3145.  Having no damage beyond about 12 hexes or so is asking to be outmaneuvered hard.

That said, a couple LPLs with ATMs and backup MPLs would be devastating.

This just in: 2x LPL, 2x ATM-9, 4x MPL.  Extra heatsinks and Clan CASE II to make up the extra tonnage.  At long range, witheringly accurate and surprisingly heavy hitting (potential 38 damage at 20 hexes.  Nothing to sneeze at).  At brutally short range, even more witheringly accurate mix-and-match with whether the ATMs or the LPLs are firing based on target numbers.  With ATMs, up to 76 damage on a heat-neutral running speed.  With LPLs, hideously accurate 38 damage that gets a little toasty.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #52 on: 05 January 2014, 19:47:20 »
Probably because 4/6 just doesn't cut it for a short range brawler in 3145.  Having no damage beyond about 12 hexes or so is asking to be outmaneuvered hard.

You could still do an urban combat variant because it is an omni so you can just use another configuration when the terrain is not tight enough to keep all engagements under 12 hexes.  Give it some jets to get to 4/6/4 or 4/6/6, throw in an Ultra 20, some SSRMs, MPLs, APGRs, and electronics and you should be good to go.  This is less of an "I want to get in close" configuration and more of a "close combat is the only option" configuration.


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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #53 on: 05 January 2014, 20:50:14 »
You could still do an urban combat variant because it is an omni so you can just use another configuration when the terrain is not tight enough to keep all engagements under 12 hexes.  Give it some jets to get to 4/6/4 or 4/6/6, throw in an Ultra 20, some SSRMs, MPLs, APGRs, and electronics and you should be good to go.  This is less of an "I want to get in close" configuration and more of a "close combat is the only option" configuration.

Exactly.  And with the Mongol doctrine being adopted by the Falcons and the Horses during the time frame the Hel was deployed I imagine that urban combat that was not only something to be anticipated, but was encouraged.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #54 on: 06 January 2014, 01:45:38 »
The Falcon Mongol Doctrine is merely an acknowledgement that if war is going to be, it may as well be total.

Nobody wants to fight in a city unless they are the weaker party. It eliminates the stronger party's strengths.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #55 on: 23 January 2015, 10:26:30 »
Sorry for a bit of Thredomancy but this is relevant considering we've just had the excellent review of the Summoner II.  It does seem with their mechs the Falcons are not only accepting that artillery is a thing, but going all in.  With this mech you've got a machine totting an artillery piece, with the Flamberge C taking an Arrow launcher with lots of reloads.  I'd assume that the Mongol doctrine is the root cause of this seeming (at long bloody last) acceptance that artillery is useful amongst the Falcons or is it the Horses influence on them finally rubbing off? 

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #56 on: 23 January 2015, 11:08:34 »
It should surprise nobody that a Mech called a Hel-B got my attention quickly. What I didn't expect was how much I love using it- it may be my second-favorite Mech of the Dark Age era for the Falcons' use (behind the Gyrfalcon). The other configs are very good, don't get me wrong, but... man, a Hel-B, with that main gun, on a battlefield far more combined-arms oriented than any since the Succession Wars? It just makes battle armor squads melt, and that's really good news. I'm in love with this thing- for being an accidental namesake, it's about as 'me' as one can get.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #57 on: 23 January 2015, 11:11:59 »
Hel-B... Hel-Bee (Hel-Beads?)... Hel-Bie... Hel-B(ringer).

Inspired me to fit a Long Tom to Loki the last time i played Mechwarrior IV. Man, that was a wonderful machine. Wiped out massed vehicles without effort and killed enemy mechs fast as well.
« Last Edit: 23 January 2015, 11:14:32 by Empyrus »

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #58 on: 23 January 2015, 11:46:37 »
Hel-B... Hel-Bee (Hel-Beads?)... Hel-Bie... Hel-B(ringer).

Inspired me to fit a Long Tom to Loki the last time i played Mechwarrior IV. Man, that was a wonderful machine. Wiped out massed vehicles without effort and killed enemy mechs fast as well.

Just don't call it the Hel-Brie, there was that typo in the 3rd Edition of the manual for this thing and I think the Worker Caste responsible for the typo was demoted to work at sewage treatment plants...
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #59 on: 23 January 2015, 13:25:31 »
Just don't call it the Hel-Brie, there was that typo in the 3rd Edition of the manual for this thing and I think the Worker Caste responsible for the typo was demoted to work at sewage treatment plants...

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #60 on: 23 January 2015, 13:31:20 »
They put listening devices in our cheese launchers...
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #61 on: 23 January 2015, 17:04:05 »
'Sir, they have cheese cannons'
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #62 on: 23 January 2015, 17:21:06 »
Brienging puns into this? You're a muenster.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #63 on: 23 January 2015, 17:43:27 »
Yeah, I Smoked too much Dutch.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #64 on: 23 January 2015, 20:51:39 »
We have puns of steel! Bring it on!

The Loki II has more puns with guns.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #65 on: 23 January 2015, 20:59:48 »
This is punful.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #66 on: 24 January 2015, 02:01:43 »
One thing about the Loki II is that there's few variants, I suppose its because its such a new machine, but it does seem to have been spread a bit thin in the variant regard.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #67 on: 24 January 2015, 09:38:46 »
One thing about the Loki II is that there's few variants, I suppose its because its such a new machine, but it does seem to have been spread a bit thin in the variant regard.

Well, that's true- and it certainly is a wonderland of possibilities to build your own, isn't it?- but it's worth noting that it has the same number of configurations in the book as the original Loki did in TRO:3050 when it first appeared. So that may have been an homage to the original... maybe?

With that much pod space, I'm sure you can find something fun to do with one though- I admit I've been exploring things like Arrow IV configs, 'neo-Hunchbacks', plasma-chuckers, and lest we forget that if you're okay with a tad of waste heat you can even build a twin-Gauss, twin-ER PPC monstrosity.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #68 on: 24 January 2015, 10:57:26 »
Hellbie I almost reported you to the moderators for that twin gauss twin ER PPC suggestion.  There's already enough cheese in the form of the Hellstar and Tommy II in the clan inventory thank you very much :p

I suppose what you could make is like...hrm..something akin to the...oh thingy...Burrock, considering there will be one variant that would be a HLL boat, for a missile boat i'd actually use some ATM racks instead of LRM's.  And not do the Thor II missile boats lunacy of ALL THE MISSILE RACKS OF VARYING SIZES!!! Possibly designed by a scientist who had a bit of a fetish for random numbers of tubes...
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #69 on: 24 January 2015, 11:06:23 »
Hellbie I almost reported you to the moderators for that twin gauss twin ER PPC suggestion.  There's already enough cheese in the form of the Hellstar and Tommy II in the clan inventory thank you very much :p

I suppose what you could make is like...hrm..something akin to the...oh thingy...Burrock, considering there will be one variant that would be a HLL boat, for a missile boat i'd actually use some ATM racks instead of LRM's.  And not do the Thor II missile boats lunacy of ALL THE MISSILE RACKS OF VARYING SIZES!!! Possibly designed by a scientist who had a bit of a fetish for random numbers of tubes...

Interestingly, I tried banning myself once- it's like dividing by zero. ;)

And yes, going all ATM-spam is pretty entertaining as well.  ^-^
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #70 on: 24 January 2015, 12:06:41 »
Not full ATM spam a pair of ATM-12s iwth some deep ammo bins and then some defensive weapons, Arti for the launchers.  Or if you wanted a missile boat go SLRM's.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #71 on: 24 January 2015, 13:13:55 »
Interestingly, I tried banning myself once- it's like dividing by zero. ;)

And yes, going all ATM-spam is pretty entertaining as well.  ^-^

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #72 on: 24 January 2015, 13:38:26 »
But the Missile Hits table hates me!

Then try a gauss rifle, or in the case of the Hel, try two ;)


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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #73 on: 24 January 2015, 15:26:05 »
But the Missile Hits table hates me!

I'll remind you who you're talking to. ;)
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #74 on: 24 January 2015, 17:26:56 »
I'll remind you who you're talking to. ;)

Right, UAC 2's it is. ;D


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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #75 on: 24 January 2015, 19:38:47 »
I really want a mini for this 'Mech...

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #76 on: 24 January 2015, 20:59:42 »
I really want a mini for this 'Mech...

Yeah it's a snazy looking one too!


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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #77 on: 24 January 2015, 21:50:32 »
.....how many and of what fact....OH! IWM minis...*sobs and looks at the pile of Loki IIs he has*
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #78 on: 24 January 2015, 22:42:54 »
.....how many and of what fact....OH! IWM minis...*sobs and looks at the pile of Loki IIs he has*

If any of them are Falcon Lokis, you're on a gold mine. That might be one of the three best heavy-class non-uniques in MWDA.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #79 on: 25 January 2015, 10:13:02 »
I'll remind you who you're talking to. ;)
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #80 on: 13 April 2024, 00:31:45 »
Any strong feelings on the new variants?

I'm liking the look of that supercharger in the 'T'.

'C' is looking pretty flexible with all those ATMs.

I haven't looked into it too much but the 'D' piques my interest with all of that jumping power  ...

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #81 on: 13 April 2024, 02:39:34 »
I like the nuttiness of the F.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #82 on: 13 April 2024, 09:22:31 »
We need a mini -review
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #83 on: 13 April 2024, 09:32:49 »
I as well enjoy the nuttiness of the F but overall, solid configuration all around. Really enjoying the Hel more with each new configuration giving us more options.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #84 on: 13 April 2024, 09:39:53 »
With that tonnage capacity it's has lot of room to innovative.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #85 on: 13 April 2024, 14:39:06 »
They are all surprisingly cheap for a clan mech with that many guns. Even the F with all its PPCs is ‘only’ 2500.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #86 on: 13 April 2024, 19:14:39 »
That's because they aren't actually that tough.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #87 on: 14 April 2024, 22:05:52 »
It's about 85% armor; par or better than most introtech, especially around the same weight. Beats a warhammer or marauder by a significant margin.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #88 on: 14 April 2024, 23:29:11 »
That's not actually an impressive accomplishment.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #89 on: 15 April 2024, 04:37:52 »
The legs are notably weak and the side torsos are missing only a couple points. Legs are one of the less likely to be hit locations, so as long as you avoid getting kicked you've got heavy mech armor. Given it has the small cockpit you should probably be trying to avoid kicks anyway.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #90 on: 15 April 2024, 05:55:58 »
It's far from terrible for what you get in return.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #91 on: 15 April 2024, 10:09:18 »
I'm not sure that I like the roles that have been defined by the company, for Mechs and other things.

I would say that the Hel / Loki Mk 2 is essentially a fire support mech vs brawler (on get close range).  It's armor while not entirely as bad as the original version, it's certainly wouldn't last long in the brawl. At least to me anyways, however during the less Mechs era of the Dark Age. There pressing need to have star mates which could take up support such as Battle Armor and certainly Combat Vehicles designed get closer to shield less armored units.

Give the design was created with combined arms in mind, give clickytech game it came from was all that And Hell's Horses built thing initially exactly like that . I would think that could be a canon reason why it's not so armored and more about the guns.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #92 on: 16 April 2024, 00:02:54 »
I think the mech to compare the Hel to isn't the Loki, but the Timber Wolf.

It doesn't have the speed of a Timbie
It doesn't have the durability of a Timbie, and the cockpit means it has even less than it looks like.

It sure does have the throw weight of a timbie, for far less BV.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #93 on: 16 April 2024, 00:06:12 »
If there was a mech I was going to compare the Sloki to, it's the Nova Cat.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #94 on: 16 April 2024, 09:30:07 »
I think the mech to compare the Hel to isn't the Loki, but the Timber Wolf.

It doesn't have the speed of a Timbie
It doesn't have the durability of a Timbie, and the cockpit means it has even less than it looks like.

It sure does have the throw weight of a timbie, for far less BV.
What do you mean?
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #95 on: 16 April 2024, 09:32:55 »
Referring to the fact that statistically, a Lokitoo is gonna spend at least a bit more time flat on the ground than a Timby.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #96 on: 16 April 2024, 11:41:22 »
The Loki II has a small cockpit, which means it suffers a  pentalty to PSRs, which means it falls easier/more often.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #97 on: 16 April 2024, 11:50:52 »
The enemy cannot force you to take a PSR if you disable his mech.

« Last Edit: 16 April 2024, 11:54:41 by Scotty »
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #98 on: 16 April 2024, 13:38:19 »
well yeah the Loki has long subscribed to the view that the best defense is a good offense. the Loki II likewise does so
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #99 on: 17 April 2024, 18:27:51 »
I just realized something: the Loki II A is a Clan version of the Defiance.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #100 on: 17 April 2024, 18:40:00 »
I was going to say a 65 ton Marauder but your right.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #101 on: 18 April 2024, 13:48:53 »
If there was a mech I was going to compare the Sloki to, it's the Nova Cat.

It does come out looking pretty reasonable in that comparison, despite the cockpit issue. I'd like to throw in the Night Gyr, which I suspect it's a replacement for (I don't believe the Gyr is being produced anymore, at least in the Inner Sphere), but that ten tons does give the Gyr some serious advantages, the fixed jump jets aside.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week TRO 3145 Special: Loki Mk II (Hel)
« Reply #102 on: 18 April 2024, 15:19:23 »
According to Rec Guide 22, the Night Gyr was put back into production in 3144 with a retooled production line on Alyina.
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