Author Topic: Warship of Christmas Day - The Farragut Class Battleship.  (Read 24667 times)

Liam's Ghost

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Re: Warship of Christmas Day - The Farragut Class Battleship.
« Reply #30 on: 29 December 2015, 17:21:20 »
Look in Historical: Operation KLONDIKE, page 11. you see the picture I linked above in the article.  That is a Farragut.  So we can assume (and yes yes, I know you don't like personal interpretations and next time I'll just go *Mech Name* "Read the TRO/Look On Sarna" and then close the article) that not all were scrapped. The WoB would not have had time to completely rebuild a scrapped Farragut from scratch either.  So it makes sense that not all of them were scrapped and indeed that could be something that was said to keep other nations happy.

Point of order, artwork isn't considered absolute canon.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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Maingunnery

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Re: Warship of Christmas Day - The Farragut Class Battleship.
« Reply #31 on: 29 December 2015, 17:35:51 »
Point of order, artwork isn't considered absolute canon.
Not really an issue, the word 'dismantled' is highly ambiguous.
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Liam's Ghost

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Re: Warship of Christmas Day - The Farragut Class Battleship.
« Reply #32 on: 29 December 2015, 18:05:24 »
Not really an issue, the word 'dismantled' is highly ambiguous.

This was already established by the Word of Blake's Farragut. Artwork of the Farragut in Liberation of Terra doesn't establish the Farragut's service during the Amaris War, or its presence in the Exodus fleet, however.

Alternate theories:
1) The final Farragut was rendered fully non-operational by december 20th by removal of critical systems, but the majority of the hulk remained intact for later disposal. The most important element of a combat warship, and the hardest to remove, is the KF drive. The Amaris Coup interrupted the final scrapping and recycling of the hulk, leaving an intact drive core and superstructure, unsuitable for restoration in the short term, but ideal for long term restoration by the Word of Blake. This is in line with Star League practices that tended to just leave "scuttled" but restorable warship hulls just laying around.

2) The Word of Blake Farragut is in fact new built, possibly at one of the five worlds. It is established that Comstar had an active warship construction program until the mid 30th century. It's also established that the Comstar we know only scratched the surface of what they were up to before the schism. Much like the five worlds themselves, the Farragut could have been something that the official Comstar didn't know about, and was only activated once the Master took a more active role in the Word of Blake. I actually consider this explanation less likely, as there are battleships more suited to the needs of old school Comstar than the Farragut.

3) More whimsically, the Word of Blake Farragut was a derelict left over from the Reunification War. The war on the Taurian Front was a bloody affair, and until the battle of Robsart the Taurian navy was consistently giving as good as it got. It is possible that Concordat forces at some point took out a Farragut, enough to force the ship's abandonment, but not enough to completely destroy it, and the location of the wreck was lost until being rediscovered much later. If I were going to spin it into a story, I'd pick the Pleiades campaign as the point where the ship was lost, and have it rediscovered by Word of Blake advisors following the Taurians when they invaded the cluster during the 3060s. I have no evidence for this theory, but it makes me smile.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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BrokenMnemonic

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Re: Warship of Christmas Day - The Farragut Class Battleship.
« Reply #33 on: 30 December 2015, 11:48:25 »
Point of order, artwork isn't considered absolute canon.
Do you have a specific ruling available for that? I'm trying to track down a post I thought I remembered seeing describing art as the lowest ranking form of canon, but still canon (as part of a conversation that I think flagged up maps as being the exception as the form of artwork that trumps others). The publication date of Op KLONDIKE post-dates that of the TRO, so there's also the new-trumps-old argument over canonicity too.

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Re: Warship of Christmas Day - The Farragut Class Battleship.
« Reply #34 on: 30 December 2015, 18:48:30 »
Wouldn't be the only time Amaris spend a decade restoring a defunct program to desperately get any hardware for his war machine only to see the SLDF claim the spoils.

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Re: Warship of Christmas Day - The Farragut Class Battleship.
« Reply #35 on: 30 December 2015, 20:39:13 »
This was already established by the Word of Blake's Farragut. Artwork of the Farragut in Liberation of Terra doesn't establish the Farragut's service during the Amaris War, or its presence in the Exodus fleet, however.

Alternate theories:
1) The final Farragut was rendered fully non-operational by december 20th by removal of critical systems, but the majority of the hulk remained intact for later disposal. The most important element of a combat warship, and the hardest to remove, is the KF drive. The Amaris Coup interrupted the final scrapping and recycling of the hulk, leaving an intact drive core and superstructure, unsuitable for restoration in the short term, but ideal for long term restoration by the Word of Blake. This is in line with Star League practices that tended to just leave "scuttled" but restorable warship hulls just laying around.

2) The Word of Blake Farragut is in fact new built, possibly at one of the five worlds. It is established that Comstar had an active warship construction program until the mid 30th century. It's also established that the Comstar we know only scratched the surface of what they were up to before the schism. Much like the five worlds themselves, the Farragut could have been something that the official Comstar didn't know about, and was only activated once the Master took a more active role in the Word of Blake. I actually consider this explanation less likely, as there are battleships more suited to the needs of old school Comstar than the Farragut.

3) More whimsically, the Word of Blake Farragut was a derelict left over from the Reunification War. The war on the Taurian Front was a bloody affair, and until the battle of Robsart the Taurian navy was consistently giving as good as it got. It is possible that Concordat forces at some point took out a Farragut, enough to force the ship's abandonment, but not enough to completely destroy it, and the location of the wreck was lost until being rediscovered much later. If I were going to spin it into a story, I'd pick the Pleiades campaign as the point where the ship was lost, and have it rediscovered by Word of Blake advisors following the Taurians when they invaded the cluster during the 3060s. I have no evidence for this theory, but it makes me smile.

There no source i know of established that Farragut-Class was resumed.  I know your speculating, but i recently read TRO: 3067 which talks about the Dante-Class Frigate, which spelled out that aside from these ships and the Faslane-Class Yardships, no new anything were being built due to ample supply of SLDF ships they had already and fear of their construction of warships would be noticed. 
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HobbesHurlbut

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Re: Warship of Christmas Day - The Farragut Class Battleship.
« Reply #36 on: 31 December 2015, 02:30:14 »
All this talk of dismantling remind me of the condition of neoBattleStar Galactica prior to the Cyclon Sneak Attack.
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marauder648

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Re: Warship of Christmas Day - The Farragut Class Battleship.
« Reply #37 on: 31 December 2015, 03:21:47 »
You mean TAS Dreadnought Right? :p  The difference is that Galactica was being converted into a musium, kind of like USS Texas or HMS Belfast rather than being completely scrapped and taken apart.
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HobbesHurlbut

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Re: Warship of Christmas Day - The Farragut Class Battleship.
« Reply #38 on: 31 December 2015, 08:17:24 »
You mean TAS Dreadnought Right? :p  The difference is that Galactica was being converted into a musium, kind of like USS Texas or HMS Belfast rather than being completely scrapped and taken apart.
it was a manner of dismantling. We saw the Galactica in her original glory and contrasted that with her last state in miniseries/main series.
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Re: Warship of Christmas Day - The Farragut Class Battleship.
« Reply #39 on: 02 January 2016, 20:53:50 »
I have a feeling there was several warship hulks left in the Terra system that were always considered to expensive (or not needed) to rebuild while Amaris and later Comstar held Terra but WoB saw the ship and decided to spend the money to defend Terra. Probably after Case White as the ship wasn't seen during that most impressive invasion. In fact, the fact we don't see it during the whole Jihad makes me think the ship couldn't leave Terra.
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marauder648

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Re: Warship of Christmas Day - The Farragut Class Battleship.
« Reply #40 on: 03 January 2016, 02:15:47 »
I have a feeling there was several warship hulks left in the Terra system that were always considered to expensive (or not needed) to rebuild while Amaris and later Comstar held Terra but WoB saw the ship and decided to spend the money to defend Terra. Probably after Case White as the ship wasn't seen during that most impressive invasion. In fact, the fact we don't see it during the whole Jihad makes me think the ship couldn't leave Terra.

This makes a lot of sense :) I like this idea.
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gyedid

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Re: Warship of Christmas Day - The Farragut Class Battleship.
« Reply #41 on: 03 January 2016, 10:03:52 »
This was already established by the Word of Blake's Farragut. Artwork of the Farragut in Liberation of Terra doesn't establish the Farragut's service during the Amaris War, or its presence in the Exodus fleet, however.

Thing is, that's one of the "new-style" Sov Soys that it's there with.  So that places this Farragut post-2750, a time when all Farraguts ought to have been decommissioned and replaced in active service by McKennas.  It could just be that the Sov Soy is escorting this Farragut to the breakers, though. 

What assets did WoB deploy against the Case White invasion fleet again?  As already stated, the Righteous Justice didn't seem to be one of them...

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
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Liam's Ghost

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Re: Warship of Christmas Day - The Farragut Class Battleship.
« Reply #42 on: 03 January 2016, 16:29:33 »
Artwork establishes that the Snow Ravens have two Mckennas. This is not the case. Artwork isn't a statement of canon, period.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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BrokenMnemonic

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Re: Warship of Christmas Day - The Farragut Class Battleship.
« Reply #43 on: 03 January 2016, 17:34:06 »
Artwork establishes that the Snow Ravens have two Mckennas. This is not the case. Artwork isn't a statement of canon, period.
From the Canon WarShip thread list:

Very nice list! I swear, mine must have been an older file because I SWEAR I added many of the FM:SLDF ships that you have but that my list omits.

However, your list appears to violate your own rule 3 in some places. For example, SLS Keckenburg. FM: SLDF puts it as the command ship of the 43rd Interdiction Squadron, based around a core of Black Lion BCs. However, it does not actually say that Keckenburg is one of those BCs. Therefore, we cannot assume it to be a Black Lion.

Also, it seems that many of the ships you've omitted are from the fleet roster art in FM:U, page 9. The full uncropped image was later posted by the artist, giving us many name-and-classes your list omits. While the lowest form of canon, art is still canon until it is superseded.
While I admire the emphatic manner in which you declare art to not be a form of canon, your opinion differs from that above.

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Liam's Ghost

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Re: Warship of Christmas Day - The Farragut Class Battleship.
« Reply #44 on: 03 January 2016, 18:11:08 »
Weirdo isn't a power that be.

And even if he was, and even if the art were an image depicting canon, all it establishes is that a Farragut and a Soyuz occupied the same general area of space at some point. Despite an earlier claim otherwise, the entire class (using whatever hull form) has already been established as in service by 2750. I defy all involved to provide a canon reference indicating you can accurately date a scene based on the type of hull seen in the art.
« Last Edit: 03 January 2016, 18:16:50 by Liam's Ghost »
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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Maingunnery

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Re: Warship of Christmas Day - The Farragut Class Battleship.
« Reply #45 on: 03 January 2016, 18:12:48 »
Artwork establishes that the Snow Ravens have two Mckennas. This is not the case. Artwork isn't a statement of canon, period.
Maybe they had two. ;)
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Liam's Ghost

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Re: Warship of Christmas Day - The Farragut Class Battleship.
« Reply #46 on: 03 January 2016, 18:18:43 »
Maybe they had two. ;)

Assumes facts not in evidence.  :P In fact, as I recall, it was that very image of two McKennas (along with the minesota tribe teaser in Combat Operations) that first sparked the statement that art is not a statement of canon.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

gyedid

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Re: Warship of Christmas Day - The Farragut Class Battleship.
« Reply #47 on: 03 January 2016, 22:47:54 »
A not-altogether-helpful answer concerning the Righteous Justice has been posted here:

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=50529.0

As to why WoB would go to these lengths...well, they needed something to replace the Zughoffer Weir/Blake's Sword  ;)...and getting this ship operational again must've been easier than attempting to replace the burned-out K-F drive of a McKenna stranded above a world with no Warship-capable yard...

cheers,

Gabe

So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

Sjhernan3060

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Re: Warship of Christmas Day - The Farragut Class Battleship.
« Reply #48 on: 03 October 2018, 13:56:35 »
Scary beast  O0

This is my leading contender for the lost blood spirit flagship

marauder648

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Re: Warship of Christmas Day - The Farragut Class Battleship.
« Reply #49 on: 04 October 2018, 02:54:45 »
Also one thing, folks going on about the age of the Farragut, with them being 200 odd years old.  Thats nothing, the Aegis class which was still in common service is way older and is happily heading towards 800 years old in the current time frame in contrary to things like metal fatigue etc.  Age isn't an issue in this setting. 
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Sjhernan3060

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Re: Warship of Christmas Day - The Farragut Class Battleship.
« Reply #50 on: 04 October 2018, 05:25:00 »
Also one thing, folks going on about the age of the Farragut, with them being 200 odd years old.  Thats nothing, the Aegis class which was still in common service is way older and is happily heading towards 800 years old in the current time frame in contrary to things like metal fatigue etc.  Age isn't an issue in this setting.

Haha right?! Truly age is just a number

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Re: Warship of Christmas Day - The Farragut Class Battleship.
« Reply #51 on: 04 October 2018, 08:25:20 »
This thread was only two years dead when you raised it. Your necromancy is slipping!
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Sjhernan3060

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Re: Warship of Christmas Day - The Farragut Class Battleship.
« Reply #52 on: 04 October 2018, 08:51:41 »
This thread was only two years dead when you raised it. Your necromancy is slipping!

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JadeHellbringer

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Re: Warship of Christmas Day - The Farragut Class Battleship.
« Reply #53 on: 04 October 2018, 09:14:15 »
With Halloween on its way rest assured my dread powers will only increase!

Could I talk you into perhaps not doing that?
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Sjhernan3060

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Re: Warship of Christmas Day - The Farragut Class Battleship.
« Reply #54 on: 04 October 2018, 10:53:46 »
Could I talk you into perhaps not doing that?

No offense meant I was simply interested in the Farragut it is a unit I had not looked closely before.

Sjhernan3060

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Re: Warship of Christmas Day - The Farragut Class Battleship.
« Reply #55 on: 04 October 2018, 11:12:51 »
Could I talk you into perhaps not doing that?

Seriously though what is the preferred process? Rather than start a new thread I would assume taking up a thread that has a lot of what I am
Looking for would be better

Weirdo

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Re: Warship of Christmas Day - The Farragut Class Battleship.
« Reply #56 on: 05 October 2018, 10:50:38 »
While there is no formal rule against posting in an older thread, doing so causes it to pop up in the New Replies page for everyone who ever posted in there, sometimes to their great irritation, if the new post doesn't actually contribute any new information or insight to the unit in question. In addition, while rarely enforced for individual posts, Rule 8 is still a forum rule and moderators can and will issue warnings for sustained patterns of behavior.

As a rule of thumb, my advice would be that if a thread has been quiet for at least a year, leave it be unless you have a true question or insight about the unit, or perhaps an interesting battle experience involving it. Keep the "I think this thing is cool" or "I wish my faction used this"/"In my headcanon my faction uses this" posts for threads that are still twitching. In addition, I notice that many of your questions and comments regard the use of that unit by Clan Blood Spirit. You might consider that *otW threads are not the place for this stuff, and instead put them in whichever Clan Blood Spirit thread is active up in the Clan subforum(or accept that sometimes, a comment just isn't meant to be posted).
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Sjhernan3060

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Re: Warship of Christmas Day - The Farragut Class Battleship.
« Reply #57 on: 05 October 2018, 12:26:54 »
While there is no formal rule against posting in an older thread, doing so causes it to pop up in the New Replies page for everyone who ever posted in there, sometimes to their great irritation, if the new post doesn't actually contribute any new information or insight to the unit in question. In addition, while rarely enforced for individual posts, Rule 8 is still a forum rule and moderators can and will issue warnings for sustained patterns of behavior.

As a rule of thumb, my advice would be that if a thread has been quiet for at least a year, leave it be unless you have a true question or insight about the unit, or perhaps an interesting battle experience involving it. Keep the "I think this thing is cool" or "I wish my faction used this"/"In my headcanon my faction uses this" posts for threads that are still twitching. In addition, I notice that many of your questions and comments regard the use of that unit by Clan Blood Spirit. You might consider that *otW threads are not the place for this stuff, and instead put them in whichever Clan Blood Spirit thread is active up in the Clan subforum(or accept that sometimes, a comment just isn't meant to be posted).

Very helpful thank you!

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Re: Warship of Christmas Day - The Farragut Class Battleship.
« Reply #58 on: 06 October 2018, 18:24:44 »
Nice write up on the battleships.
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Sjhernan3060

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Re: Warship of Christmas Day - The Farragut Class Battleship.
« Reply #59 on: 20 November 2018, 20:52:56 »
In the invasion era would would be good escorts to support the Farragut? Congress or maybe a York?