'Mech of the Week - Ryoken III-XP (Skinwalker)

[grimlock1]

Looking back over the configs, the D has something kinda odd.  That RAC 2.  That's a mid-long range plinker. Yeah, it does have the option 1,2,4, or 6 heat on demand, so long as the ammo holds out. The Bombast already gives you a 7-12 heat window for the TSM.

It kinda reminds me of the Rokurokubi and the Shiro, with their plinky little AC's on melee builds.   It just feels weird.

What can I say the Skinwalker is quite inspiration, but I did not use TSM (a bit too temperamental for my taste). 

The trick to using TSM is to sit down and make a list of what weapon combos produce what heat.

Then you build a reference table that lets you quickly tailor your attack pattern based on your current heat, movement and are you getting to the Magic 9 or just trying to stay there. The No-Dachi NDA-2KO is a wonderful trainer in the use of TSM. Between the ER medium, mplas, flamer and splas, you can bump your heat by 5, 4, 3, or 2 points. There are more efficient ways to build that fine adjustment into your heat, but this is the best stock configuration. Until Princess brings Flamers, infernos and plasma, you can pretty much activate and maintain TSM at will. 

given that the 2nd use of the interface cockpit tech was on a hell's horse unit, it is possible they invented it and clan wolf obtained the plans directly.

First being WoB Gestalt, right? 

what i find interesting is that the Word of Blake was apprently very interested in protomechs, going so far to convert a number of captured ones to work with VDNI equipped Manei Domini pilots. (seen on Necromo during the Jihad but implied to have been deployed elsewhere as well.) which honestly suggests that the Machina Domini system itself might have been heavily influenced by clan protomech technology.

I guess Necromo has become cannon now.

[glitterboy2098]

First being WoB Gestalt, right? 

no, because the Machina Domini system is a different system from the Clan Interface Cockpit. as has been pointed out by several people, including the writers. they may share a concept and a few game mechanics, but they are different 'under the hood'.

I guess Necromo has become cannon now.

it always was.

[Colt Ward]

Looks like it was built from scratch to incorporate the experimental tech.

Thanks, did not have the book for the fluff and I know the Jade Hawk & Savage Wolf have interesting differences between Prototype variants

[GreekFire]

Looking back over the configs, the D has something kinda odd.  That RAC 2.  That's a mid-long range plinker. Yeah, it does have the option 1,2,4, or 6 heat on demand, so long as the ammo holds out. The Bombast already gives you a 7-12 heat window for the TSM.

Not only that, but you need the RAC/2 to balance out your heat levels unless you start turning off heat sinks. It becomes even more problematic once you notice that the ER Medium is in the same arm as the lance.

The best way I've used it is by taking the Melee Master special piloting ability. Depending on your to-hit numbers and angle, you can use your TSM to deliver two 22-point Lance or kick strikes to your target. The RAC is then there in case you lose initiative and need to pull back while maintaining some accurate critseeking at rage.

It's not perfect, and it's not super elegant, but it works.

[grimlock1]

no, because the Machina Domini system is a different system from the Clan Interface Cockpit. as has been pointed out by several people, including the writers. they may share a concept and a few game mechanics, but they are different 'under the hood'.
it always was.

The Horses had the Parash 3 in 3086.  Then the Wolves had the Skinwalker in 3148. 

What other Clan machine used an Interface Cockpit?

[Colt Ward]

I think it was a reference to the Ultra Protos.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Thanks, did not have the book for the fluff and I know the Jade Hawk & Savage Wolf have interesting differences between Prototype variants

As far as I know, the Skinwalker has only shown up in XTRO ROTS 3 and no where else.

[Colt Ward]

Not doubting you, I was just using some of the contemporaries as an example- for instance the Falcons have Savage Wolves that do not have XXLs or Ferro-Lam armor . . . not even sure its a Omni.  The Jade Hawk has different versions depending if it was derived from Falcon or Sea Fox research, and thus produced at different sites.  You know, that would be a good story.

Be nice to see a production version of the Stormcrow III, even if it has to dump the interface cockpit.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Not doubting you, I was just using some of the contemporaries as an example- for instance the Falcons have Savage Wolves that do not have XXLs or Ferro-Lam armor . . . not even sure its a Omni.

Yes, the prototype Savage Wolf.  It's not an omni and has the weaponry of the Prime but lacks the XXL, Ferro-Lam, and armored gyro that the omni does.  The precedent for that was actually set by the Eisensturm omnifighter.

[Wrangler]

I thought it showed in record sheets that the prototype Savage Wolves that it was a Omni. Weird.

[Empyrus]

Record sheets don't actually have anything to point out a design is an Omni, except "Prime" or [letter] but even then you must know what that means to figure it is an Omni.

The Wendigo is one of the few cases (the only one even?) where the prototype (Wendigo-PR) is an Omni like the final model.

[Wrangler]

Prime usually for OmniMech main configs. Where Standard use Clan standard BattleMechs.
I thought few forums ago they had answered question when Dark Age mech started to appear. I asked about the MK Iv of either the Vulture or MadCat.

[Jellico]

Considering there are IS Battlemechs that use suffixes like 0A spotting an Omni can be fraught.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Mostly you have to remember whether or not it's listed as an omnimech in the TRO.

[Sartris]

yeah, it's mostly memory. you can do an MUL search that asks for omnis as the sub-unit type and BASE> in the text search to get a general chassis list (<BASE> will both <> will be rejected as attempting to inject malicious code)

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=base%3E&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasRole=&HasBFAbility=&MinPV=&MaxPV=&Role=None+Selected&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=&SubTypes=45

[Wrangler]

Good Catch.  I guess i was remembering it wrong. I thought i had posts in previous forums when question came up about if Savage Wolf and the Vulture IV were "OmniMechs" or not.  It was assumed not, because way MWDA ran their miniature line. Initially OmniMechs weren't possible with the game until much later on.

[Caedis Animus]

It kinda reminds me of the Rokurokubi and the Shiro, with their plinky little AC's on melee builds.   It just feels weird.

The Shiro isn't a melee build, it's a long range support build with a pointy stick.

[Maelwys]

2 things. The Clan Interface Armor for this is going to require the pilot have gunnery and piloting skills for the BA. How effectively are they cross training? Just enough so that the pilot doesn't fall over, or are they just as rigorous as their MW training?

And could Elstars be an attempt to breed away the inherent drawbacks to this? Either by attempting to push the Aerospace phenotype resistance to EI to other phenotypes, or making them even more resistant than the Aerospace phenotype?

[glitterboy2098]

2 things. The Clan Interface Armor for this is going to require the pilot have gunnery and piloting skills for the BA. How effectively are they cross training? Just enough so that the pilot doesn't fall over, or are they just as rigorous as their MW training?

And could Elstars be an attempt to breed away the inherent drawbacks to this? Either by attempting to push the Aerospace phenotype resistance to EI to other phenotypes, or making them even more resistant than the Aerospace phenotype?

i would assume that currently they are probably not cross training too intensely, since the tech is new and anyone using it would have to have been taught to use BA well after they finished their sibko training.

that said, i would suspect that after the interface cockpit becomes widespread, they'll start cross-training their sibko's and the skill levels will equalize between the two aspects.

honestly i'll be interested to see if they change the design of the interface BA.. either to boost the mobility and suitability outside the mech, or perhaps they'll develop a version that can work with a full light BA rather than just a PA(L)

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Given the space limitations in a mech's cockpit, I don't think that going to a full Light BA suit would be that easy if it's even possible in the first place.

[SteelRaven]

At best, it's closer to a PA(L)

[Maelwys]

i would assume that currently they are probably not cross training too intensely, since the tech is new and anyone using it would have to have been taught to use BA well after they finished their sibko training.

that said, i would suspect that after the interface cockpit becomes widespread, they'll start cross-training their sibko's and the skill levels will equalize between the two aspects.

honestly i'll be interested to see if they change the design of the interface BA.. either to boost the mobility and suitability outside the mech, or perhaps they'll develop a version that can work with a full light BA rather than just a PA(L)

I guess that's one more question. Is this going to be something that's common, or is it just for those desperate or fanatical enough (like EI was in the 3050's).

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Guess we'll see if IlClan ever actually sees print and the timeline actually advances.

[grimlock1]

i would assume that currently they are probably not cross training too intensely, since the tech is new and anyone using it would have to have been taught to use BA well after they finished their sibko training.

that said, i would suspect that after the interface cockpit becomes widespread, they'll start cross-training their sibko's and the skill levels will equalize between the two aspects.

honestly i'll be interested to see if they change the design of the interface BA.. either to boost the mobility and suitability outside the mech, or perhaps they'll develop a version that can work with a full light BA rather than just a PA(L)

Unless they change the RAW, it's restricted to PA(L) class so that's 400kg.  Figure that 180 kg are already taken by the chassis and the interface gear.  a PA(L) with 380 kg of weapons, armor and mobility doesn't exactly terrify me.

And truthfully, the Clan version doesn't scare me as much as the WoB version. EI can grant greater TH hit buffs, but they are situational.  If you are shooting through heavy woods, and heavy smoke, and at night, EI is the awesome.  If you are shooting at someone in open terrain, at half past noon, EI gives you bupkis.

[Gaiiten]

What if this technology did originate from the Clan Homeworlds?

[grimlock1]

What if this technology did originate from the Clan Homeworlds?

Are you hypothesizing about the Interface Cockpit at large, or just the version of the tech we've seen in the Parash 3 and Skinwalker?  If the WoB's system is somehow based on tech transfer from the homeworld Clans, that's a can of worms.

And yes, I know that the Clan Interface Cockpit/Armor is not the same thing as the same as the WoB version but they are barking up the same tree.  Even if they do things differently, they are accomplishing the same basic ends, constrained by mech technology on one side and the human body on the other.

[Gaiiten]

Are you hypothesizing about the Interface Cockpit at large, or just the version of the tech we've seen in the Parash 3 and Skinwalker?  If the WoB's system is somehow based on tech transfer from the homeworld Clans, that's a can of worms.

And yes, I know that the Clan Interface Cockpit/Armor is not the same thing as the same as the WoB version but they are barking up the same tree.  Even if they do things differently, they are accomplishing the same basic ends, constrained by mech technology on one side and the human body on the other.

I mean that the basic technology of the Mech Interface Cockpit could be the Superheavy Protomechs. They do have a very, very similar technology.
It could be that during the Wars of Reaving there was a breakthrough (maybe the Society achieved this) or one of the Home Clans developed this.
The Hell`s Horses did have to field this technology in 3086, maybe they got this from their Star Adder allies during the last exchanges before the loss of contact.

[grimlock1]

I mean that the basic technology of the Mech Interface Cockpit could be the Superheavy Protomechs. They do have a very, very similar technology.
It could be that during the Wars of Reaving there was a breakthrough (maybe the Society achieved this) or one of the Home Clans developed this.
The Hell`s Horses did have to field this technology in 3086, maybe they got this from their Star Adder allies during the last exchanges before the loss of contact.

So you are only positing that the IS Clans developed this tech with help/inspiration/influence/sock puppeting from the Home World Clans or potentially the Society.   Not that the WoB got any help from the Kerensky Cluster in building the Gestalt.  Just getting everything straight in my head.

[Gaiiten]

So you are only positing that the IS Clans developed this tech with help/inspiration/influence/sock puppeting from the Home World Clans or potentially the Society.   Not that the WoB got any help from the Kerensky Cluster in building the Gestalt.  Just getting everything straight in my head.

Exactly this.

The WoB and Clan technologies might be similar, but they have different origins, IMHO.
Two bright minds, same idea, you may say  :)

[grimlock1]

Exactly this.

The WoB and Clan technologies might be similar, but they have different origins, IMHO.
Two bright minds, same idea, you may say  :)

So option A:  is that this tech is an outgrowth of the piloting suit for super heavy protos, to which Hells Horses had access before the fled the Kerensky Cluster.

Option B:  it is an independent development to which the Horses had access.

Option C:  It's something that happened in the Kerensky Cluster post WoR and the Horses got a hold of it via shadowy means, ie Bandit Caste.  Which implies that the Horses have a back channel to what's happening in the Kerensky Cluster.   The question then is how do they feel about the state of affairs back home?  Are they worried about the home Clans trying to pull a WoR in the IS?  If they are, and they are keeping quiet about it, we all saw what that did for Comstar's reputation....