Creating a "modern" military force.

[Auman]

Possibly a littlebit of a derail, but if you want good anti-mech-tanks from our world, I'd go for the MBT's, putting the biggest gun possibly on it.

For LRM-vehicles, I'd pick the stalin-organ-trucks, the MRLS and similar vehicles; perhaps the german automatic minelayers as well.

For good anti-tank-vehicles, I'd pick vehicles that looks as if they pack a load of weapons, perhaps the Ontos http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/34/Ontos.jpg/300px-Ontos.jpg

Depending on tech available, it could pack anything from 6+ ER-L-Lasers, 6x LB-X-AC/10's, 6 x ER-PPC, etc

Some missile-vehicles can allso be cool to put into BT: http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/7008/brdm2wbm1416afg02.jpg

Yeah, I've actually ordered some MLRS to act as LRM carriers... As for the Ontos, just in terms of scale in comparison to the other figures it would be on the table with, would be too small to pack around AC/10s. A clust of four AC/2s would be decent though. That would actually make the Ontos an absurdly long range, lightly armored combatant that could deal okay damage for less than a hundred BV (maybe).

Fireangel, that looks like a helpful article and I'll make a point of reading it.

[Belisarius]

I'm still dangling the idea of IFVs with RAC2s. The Bolla seems to have stolen some of my thunder, but I think it's a good weapon to replicate the effects of the 25mm chain gun and .50 cal on todays IFVs. What I'm still trying to figure out are the MBTs. ACs have too short a range, and I'm having trouble getting iHGR concepts to fit together.

It could be because I'm so desperate to shoehorn in the armored motive system.

[Khymerion]

I'm still dangling the idea of IFVs with RAC2s. The Bolla seems to have stolen some of my thunder, but I think it's a good weapon to replicate the effects of the 25mm chain gun and .50 cal on todays IFVs. What I'm still trying to figure out are the MBTs. ACs have too short a range, and I'm having trouble getting iHGR concepts to fit together.

It could be because I'm so desperate to shoehorn in the armored motive system.

The Armored Motive System is definitely fun.   

iHGR and HGR are kinda only going to be for tanker hunter style vehicles due to the rules stating that they need to be hull mounted.   

That leaves the GR and LGR as the only real ballistic MBT main guns unless you really enjoy AC/10s (for that NATO flavored special munitions), Ultra AC/10s (if you like soviet style jam happy rapid fire fun), LB-10X (I heard you like canister shot), or RAC/5s (because the Ultra just wasn't jamming nearly enough for your tastes).    Any bigger and it might as well not even be acknowledged as viable in an MBT role, anything smaller and it is just not hitting hard enough.  The fact that most MBTs fall into what is considered a medium weight class in B-Tech does kind of weigh heavily on what can be put on the chassis (40 to 60 tons seems to be the across the board weight with a few high end scales touching into the heavy bracket at nearly 70).

The lack of a good, hard hitting ATGM really makes for keeping the game fun... but boy do we love our Itano Circus/Macross Missile Massacre (MMM) launchers (SRMs, LRMs, MRMs, MMLs, ect).   Sadly, a rolling Itano Circus tank doesn't capture the feel of an MBT (even if it is really effective!).  Only the T-Bolt launchers really come close to a single hard hitting missile if trying to get an ingame analogue to an ATGM...   but they are somewhat lack luster compared to the MMM launchers themselves.  Win some, lose some.

The MGs and LMGs work wonders as in game analogues tbh.  They fill the intended role splendidly.   I would stick with the LAC/2 and use the older optional rules for rapid firing standard ACs make good stand ins for the autocannons that IVFs carry... only because the LAC/2 and LAC/5 are light enough to actually keep an IFV to about a historical weight bracket (the joy of trying to stick to between 15 tons to 30 tons and still be semi-useful).

The various basic armors in the game work great for getting an analogue between the various armor grades out there.   Feel that the 2nd Generation Chobham of the Challenger II is great?   Hvy Ferro.   General 3rd Generation Armor?   Ferro.   Reactive Armor?   Should be obvious.  Older 2nd Generation MBT Armor?  Standard.   Am I saying that this is what we have today compared to 1000 years from now?   No.    But it is a great analogue without having to go beat one's head into a desk with trying to use half baked primitive rules in a game where someone is throwing 4 cERPPCs around a turn from a single vehicle.

Engines?   Due to the general venomous hatred that sometimes seems to pour forth from people over the idea that vehicles might actually get a fusion engine alotted to them...   ICEs work great as your standard diesel engine with Fuel Cells being great stand ins for turbine or light weight diesels.

Need to replicate the ability of most 3rd Gen MBTs being able to fire on the move?   Targeting computer tied to the main gun.   Simple as that.   Yeah, it is 4 tons of valuable weight to get a GR or some of the AC/10 class guns hooked up but it does a wonderful analogue.

I don't need to mention CASE do I?

Sorry if this is not what you wanted or desired or have already been said...

[Belisarius]

Exactly what I was looking for. I didn't realize that the iHGR and HGR couldn't be turret mounted. That's frustrating. Leaves the GR really. Nothing else has the punch to be anything approaching a main gun at long range. The LGR doesn't deal enough damage and the energy weapons are all either too low damage or shorter range (ERPPC and HPPC respectively).

I was basically looking for a headcapping weapon as the main gun, anything less and it doesn't really look like a main gun to my eyes. Hm. Gauss Rifle, RAC2, and a few LMGs. Then it's the electronics. Guardian, C3S, TC, and Tag maybe.

I'm gonna have to run that and try to see if it all fits. I may have to drop to the LAC2.

For the ATGM, you could go with the ArrowIV, but that's an enormous weight (basically puts the vehicle over 45 tons at a minimum).

[Auman]

If you're going to make a 30 ton tank with a main gun approaching or exceeding the AC/10s weight, I automatically assumed the C3 computers were a given. Having built a tank to those specifications, I realized that the armor is not exactly enough to inspire confidence. The C3s, if utilized properly, should allow these tanks to stand back as far as possible and gun down their opponents. Looking at the numbers, the damage potential of these tanks is pretty damn impressive. According to Heavy Metal Vee, the tanks I made have a battle value of about 200. That's roughly 5 : 1 against a Vulture, when factoring in the BV.

[Khymerion]

For the ATGM, you could go with the ArrowIV, but that's an enormous weight (basically puts the vehicle over 45 tons at a minimum).

Arrow IV is more of an analogue to the heavy artillery missiles of the M270 MLRS or the BM-27 Uragan MRS than it would be to a TOW series ATGM or the AT-14 Spriggan.   The weight of the launcher is actually more prone to producing the earlier said vehicles than it is to give lighter vehicles a heavy punch.  The advent of semi-guided LRMs and T-Bolt launchers have gone far really to improve the capabilities of these when dealing with this problem.   Streaks have also been a good stand in on and off over the years, even if they are more than a bit short ranged.

[Belisarius]

I admit that the Thunderbolt may fit the bill (although weight will still be an issue if we're looking at something bigger than a 5). A Thunderbolt10, RAC (or LAC depending on weight considerations)2, and a machine gun or two? Then the armored motive system and a similar electronics package.

Now that I think about it, maybe putting the TAG on a FIST specific vehicle a la the Stryker make-up identified up-thread.

[Khymerion]

I admit that the Thunderbolt may fit the bill (although weight will still be an issue if we're looking at something bigger than a 5). A Thunderbolt10, RAC (or LAC depending on weight considerations)2, and a machine gun or two? Then the armored motive system and a similar electronics package.

Now that I think about it, maybe putting the TAG on a FIST specific vehicle a la the Stryker make-up identified up-thread.

With 20 to 30 tons to work with and only the need to bring on average 8 infantry men up (1 ton), you can probably squeeze what you want into the chassis with little problem.  Might need a bit of massaging of the numbers, an acceptance that it won't be a wonder weapon, and a few design compromises that will no doubt be painful and viewed as less optimal but I am sure you can manage it.

[Nebfer]

I'm still having difficulty as to figuring out what your really wanting.

If I get what your saying your planing a situation where a low tech world meets high tech forces but manages to survive and is now scrambling to get higher tech gear to face round two?

So high firepower and "accuracy" but little armor and likely mobility (as your not going to have much of either on the weights your wanting, with the equipment you want, and that 3/5 is about what most real life AFVs get anyway). And forgoing the fact that real life MBTs have pop guns compared to an AC-2, and are using more of a role equivalent B-tech weapon?

So AC-10s, Gauss Rifles, Large Lasers & PPCs...

[Khymerion]

I'm still having difficulty as to figuring out what your really wanting.

If I get what your saying your planing a situation where a low tech world meets high tech forces but manages to survive and is now scrambling to get higher tech gear to face round two?

So high firepower and "accuracy" but little armor and likely mobility (as your not going to have much of either on the weights your wanting, with the equipment you want, and that 3/5 is about what most real life AFVs get anyway). And forgoing the fact that real life MBTs have pop guns compared to an AC-2, and are using more of a role equivalent B-tech weapon?

So AC-10s, Gauss Rifles, Large Lasers & PPCs...

3/5 and 4/6 isn't actually too bad honestly if planned from the start to be used in conjunction with conventional infantry, both foot, motorized, and mechanized.  5/8 starts to get the point where it is outrunning the very troops they are supposed to be working with.   In that regard, with that intended speed, that does free up quite a good deal to work with in terms of hefting heavy equipment (or at least enough to squeeze something nice on).

[Fallen_Raven]

If you're wanting a little variety between your MBT style tanks, you might want to consider some of the following optional equipment:

Superchargers (great for tanks you want to break before you ever see the enemy!)
Vehicular Grenade Launchers (one shot smoke is handy for general use, and frag or incendiary rounds can make even the toughest foot soldier cringe)
One Shot missiles (not only do you get missiles to simulate TOW systems, but you can load special ammo to boot!)
Remote Sensor Dispensers (for tanks with a double duty in recon)
Active Probes (Recon duty again, plus it allows you to monitor those Remote Sensors)
A- and B-Pods can simulate some Claymore style antipersonnel defenses (don't know if anyone still uses those as a standard feature, but I've heard of crews adding them for urban combat)
Mine Dispensers (not exactly MBT gear, but something useful any way)
Minesweepers (Since these things take 30 points of damage from mines for you, they could be quite helpful)
The Limited Amphibious chassis modification (being able to cross small rivers and lakes could be a very useful suprise)

All of this is from Tac Ops, and is rather light weight and compact to be added as extra features rather than changing the role of the vehicle. It all seems to fit the concept of the MBT, or simulates existing equipment at the Battletech scale with a little judicious renaming. Feel free to ignore anything that seems to stupid, but it might give you some things to work with.

[Auman]

I'm still having difficulty as to figuring out what your really wanting.

If I get what your saying your planing a situation where a low tech world meets high tech forces but manages to survive and is now scrambling to get higher tech gear to face round two?

So high firepower and "accuracy" but little armor and likely mobility (as your not going to have much of either on the weights your wanting, with the equipment you want, and that 3/5 is about what most real life AFVs get anyway). And forgoing the fact that real life MBTs have pop guns compared to an AC-2, and are using more of a role equivalent B-tech weapon?

So AC-10s, Gauss Rifles, Large Lasers & PPCs...

The factions involved, at the start, will be a gaggle of deep periphery powers of fairly considerable demographic strength with an industrial base roughly comparable to that of 21st century Earth in terms of scale. The types of weapons available at the very beginning will be ACs, standard lasers, LRMs, SRMs, conventional infantry with rifles, machine guns and rocket launchers, conventional fighters, VTOLs and a pack of old battlemechs... As the campaign progresses, my faction will accumulate more modern mechs and weapons technologies that will be hoarded and used sparingly.

So, to make up for that, the armed forces will be spamming not so great conventional units and using advanced technologies in pivotal battles that require them. I guess the best way to explain what I'm going for in terms of a "feel" would be the newest Transformers movies. Conventional infantry, tanks and fighters taking on hyper advanced robots in desperate battles through out their homeworld. Eventually, when need calls for it, our intrepid heroes will take their lone jump ship on a clandestine planet hopping campaign to raid planets that pose a threat to their existence.

My gaming group will be playing as these low tech gentlemen, within the context of a greater campaign set during the Jihad, starting around 3067. My group will be coordinating with people from across the North American continent and since we're joining in a bit late, the choice was made to take a low tech and more or less strategically insignificant path to start with, so as to not disturb what the rest of the guys are doing too much. So, as to not wreck the other guys stories and plots by jumping in as big tough badass sumbitches, we're intentionally hobbling ourselves and working our way up the tech ladder to a point where we become significant players in a freeform story campaign.

So, this is why we're looking to make some total crap units. But not so crappy as to not enjoy ourselves and be wiped out too quickly. Quantity has a quality all its own and all that stuff.