Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!

[Elmoth]

The thing is that the MH is not that powerful. It is by periphery standards, but the number of legions it has is limited (regardless of the quality or lack thereof of its equipment). The MH has grabbed A LOT of territory in the last century, but it's legions have not expanded accordingly, basically because the grabbed territory is periphery quality, not triple A planets. I think the number of legions should be somewhat larger (or the number of canopian regiments lower) but the main problem is that, that the size of the military is small, so a long war is problematic. It is effective in a blitzkrieg, but it is a force that cannot stand a war of attrition.

If that makes it into a mook faction or not depends on your POV. I dislike the MH because of its slaver and falcon-like abuse of conquered populations trappings. Otherwise I would consider it to be a great faction worth playing.

To me. For being a mook faction they have been enjoying quite some time in the sunlight Inthe last 100 years. Compare that to how the FWL a supposedly core faction, fared. :)

[ArkRoyalRavager]

Well, it also means the FWL can overtly support cutting off the Hegemony before focusing on Andurien.  The Canopians might have gotten mauled by the Highlanders soaking up for the Capellans but they're not stretched to the point they need to withdraw. 

I meant the neoFWL and Andurien might both go for a land grab in Liao space if they throw most of the CCAF against Terra.

The thing is that the MH is not that powerful. It is by periphery standards, but the number of legions it has is limited (regardless of the quality or lack thereof of its equipment). The MH has grabbed A LOT of territory in the last century, but it's legions have not expanded accordingly, basically because the grabbed territory is periphery quality, not triple A planets. I think the number of legions should be somewhat larger (or the number of canopian regiments lower) but the main problem is that, that the size of the military is small, so a long war is problematic. It is effective in a blitzkrieg, but it is a force that cannot stand a war of attrition.

If that makes it into a mook faction or not depends on your POV. I dislike the MH because of its slaver and falcon-like abuse of conquered populations trappings. Otherwise I would consider it to be a great faction worth playing.

To me. For being a mook faction they have been enjoying quite some time in the sunlight Inthe last 100 years. Compare that to how the FWL a supposedly core faction, fared. :)

It's down to the direction they choose to write.

The Marians didn't treat conquered populations like the Falcons. On the contrary, Julius tried hard to integrate Illyria and Lothario. It was the double factor of the Blakists inciting revolt and Cassius' brutal response that drove the Lothians away.

With respect to the original FWL, it was in the limelight from 3035-3067, then the neoFWL from 3139-3150.

[Turaglas]

The thing is that the MH is not that powerful. It is by periphery standards, but the number of legions it has is limited (regardless of the quality or lack thereof of its equipment). The MH has grabbed A LOT of territory in the last century, but it's legions have not expanded accordingly, basically because the grabbed territory is periphery quality, not triple A planets. I think the number of legions should be somewhat larger (or the number of canopian regiments lower) but the main problem is that, that the size of the military is small, so a long war is problematic. It is effective in a blitzkrieg, but it is a force that cannot stand a war of attrition.

If that makes it into a mook faction or not depends on your POV. I dislike the MH because of its slaver and falcon-like abuse of conquered populations trappings. Otherwise I would consider it to be a great faction worth playing.

To me. For being a mook faction they have been enjoying quite some time in the sunlight Inthe last 100 years. Compare that to how the FWL a supposedly core faction, fared. :)

Nevermind.  Gonna shorten it down a lot so I sound less like a sleep deprived madman.

I disagree on the limelight and other points.  Marians have recovered and nosedived from the Jihad and a secession where as the FWL fractured in a civil war and was reformed, while outlasting a two-part invasion, with pet clanners who can handwaive narrative conflicts by throwing a warship at them.  They are doing spectacularly at the moment by comparison compared to the Marians since the Jihad.  Battle armor and conventional arms upgrades are great, but they don't compare in anyway to that of the lack of manufacturing specifications we've been griping about for who knows how long on mechs.  The relative scope from Great House to Medium/major periphery power is obvious, but we are also talking in relevant terms of a province or other periphery powers.

Troop wise we're okay.  None of the periphery realms are at a level that can take on a full great house.  Rereading SF can gleam insight into the tactical filler blunder we have: Two legions, IV and VI split off from Tamarind and attacked the RC and Magistry for whatever ingenious reason.  Legio V was destroyed because of an ambush while it was too green.  Legio I (minus the tertia cohort which is kia) and the Morituri still in reserve while II and III are fighting the massed bulk of mercs and Tamarind forces between Illyria and the contested Tamarind worlds captured.  So we spread too thin in a short time.   

Also going to say that the context of 3025 to post 4th succession wars the BT morale compass is relative and as you said factions are based on perspective, but I believe that is just what shade of morale grey you think someone is.  When you read into the MH the amount of raids since the nation legitimized from a pirate kingdom sort of slows down, and slavery laws are regulated similarly to the Clan's indentured servitude of bondsmen.  You should be able to tell the nuances from being a freed Plebian in the MH or ranking out and up to warrior in a clan.   Everyone raids in this setting, piracy to mercenaries to House and clan invasions is a moot opinion to stand a chair leg on.

Lastly, the MHAF learned not to mistreat planets they conquered from Julius.  The Lothian uprising and secession was from the Jihad after the bombings and the Wobbies and culminated with a different direction going along with the trend of enhancing the diverse backgrounds of periphery minor factions.  This has had the unfortunate consequence of somewhat stunting the Taurians and Marians development wise.

I meant the neoFWL and Andurien might both go for a land grab in Liao space if they throw most of the CCAF against Terra.

I dunno why Andurien would go after Liao space but I don't know a lot still.  I'm not really sure what the political goal of the FWL once the Andurien/Regulan situation is resolved but my guess would be stabilization and maybe arms buildup in response to the Wolf Empire becoming Ilclan.

I suspect the hinted Wolf worlds who want to return to the FWL from the recguide might instigate a counter invasion, who knows.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

The Marian campaign is only a sideshow for the neoFWL. Periphery realms generally survive because they aren't as attractive as IS planets nor are they worth the cost of invading. There's no lack of enmity between the Successor States. Historically, the Capellans were getting continuously carved up by both the FWL and Suns. Andurien's political marriage with Centrella notwithstanding, they still hate Liao, just without the means to express that hate.

The Clans on the other hand, especially now with an actual ilClan, is not a risk the neoFWL is willing to take. They've seen what happened to Melissa Steiner II. The Foxes have deep ties with the Wolves. If it comes down to war, they might back their own people and simply expand their Protectorate at the expense of their former clients in the neoFWL.

[Adacas]

The thing is that the MH is not that powerful. It is by periphery standards, but the number of legions it has is limited (regardless of the quality or lack thereof of its equipment). The MH has grabbed A LOT of territory in the last century, but it's legions have not expanded accordingly, basically because the grabbed territory is periphery quality, not triple A planets. I think the number of legions should be somewhat larger (or the number of canopian regiments lower) but the main problem is that, that the size of the military is small, so a long war is problematic. It is effective in a blitzkrieg, but it is a force that cannot stand a war of attrition.

If that makes it into a mook faction or not depends on your POV. I dislike the MH because of its slaver and falcon-like abuse of conquered populations trappings. Otherwise I would consider it to be a great faction worth playing.

To me. For being a mook faction they have been enjoying quite some time in the sunlight Inthe last 100 years. Compare that to how the FWL a supposedly core faction, fared. :)

100 years of expansion? Lothario is independent, only Illyria remains and a few more worlds, that the Hegemony does not expand its legions is the sole responsibility of the authors, if you read the fluff all the Caesars want to do it, it has been invested in it but it is never achieved, that is a decision of the authors and nothing else.

The conquered populations have the same rights as the citizens of the hegemonic central worlds, they elect senators and representatives to the House of People, in the case of the Illyria worlds it has Senators since 3068, and the same Blantleff and Maximilian, the former worlds. marik since 3075 have Senators in the House of Alphard.

I think your idea about the brutality on the conquered populations is what the Rebels Lotharians and the Canopians say in the fluff, being Citizens for voting Senators from that date, no member of those planets can be enslaved as the Marian Law says according to what published in MPS, and I do not change that later, the only slaves are prisoners of war and captures by raids and nothing else, the rest is propaganda of a state that is dedicated to trafficking in women as a way of life

[Adacas]

The Marian campaign is only a sideshow for the neoFWL. Periphery realms generally survive because they aren't as attractive as IS planets nor are they worth the cost of invading. There's no lack of enmity between the Successor States. Historically, the Capellans were getting continuously carved up by both the FWL and Suns. Andurien's political marriage with Centrella notwithstanding, they still hate Liao, just without the means to express that hate.

The Clans on the other hand, especially now with an actual ilClan, is not a risk the neoFWL is willing to take. They've seen what happened to Melissa Steiner II. The Foxes have deep ties with the Wolves. If it comes down to war, they might back their own people and simply expand their Protectorate at the expense of their former clients in the neoFWL.

I doubt that the Foxes move troops and if they expand their protectorate it is at Marik's request to make them more members of the House, I see them benefiting more by selling equipment to Marik to take worlds from the Wolf Empire or to try to take worlds of the Terrestrial Corridor from the Falcons in that new emerging Chaos March

[Turaglas]

I was under the impression the Foxes were almost entirely autonomous from each other?

[Adacas]

I was under the impression the Foxes were almost entirely autonomous from each other?

There are different fleets that manage their businesses as they see fit, some associated with Marik, others go on their own, I think

[Turaglas]

100 years of expansion? Lothario is independent, only Illyria remains and a few more worlds, that the Hegemony does not expand its legions is the sole responsibility of the authors, if you read the fluff all the Caesars want to do it, it has been invested in it but it is never achieved, that is a decision of the authors and nothing else.

The conquered populations have the same rights as the citizens of the hegemonic central worlds, they elect senators and representatives to the House of People, in the case of the Illyria worlds it has Senators since 3068, and the same Blantleff and Maximilian, the former worlds. marik since 3075 have Senators in the House of Alphard.

I think your idea about the brutality on the conquered populations is what the Rebels Lotharians and the Canopians say in the fluff, being Citizens for voting Senators from that date, no member of those planets can be enslaved as the Marian Law says according to what published in MPS, and I do not change that later, the only slaves are prisoners of war and captures by raids and nothing else, the rest is propaganda of a state that is dedicated to trafficking in women as a way of life

Handbook: Major Periphery States pg 155 says offspring of slaves or pows only.  As well as how slaves are to be treated. 

I still don't have the stuff during the Jihad and after though, if anyone would like to tell me the names of the sauces with them that'd be swell.

[Adacas]

It seems that we will add a couple of designs from the Rec Guide 16, the LCT-5S and the LCT-7V at least for now, the 3M that we already had on the list and appears in the Rec Guide also apparently

[Geont]

I was under the impression the Foxes were almost entirely autonomous from each other?

They are in its area of commerce control. Sometimes, due to political changes, there are overlaps of these areas (neoFWL is a prime example, Spina and Skate Khanates due reunification of FWL). But they are all still under the control of SeaFox Khan. There was an attempt of one Khanate to achieve full independence but was resolved.

I doubt that the Foxes move troops and if they expand their protectorate it is at Marik's request to make them more members of the House, I see them benefiting more by selling equipment to Marik to take worlds from the Wolf Empire or to try to take worlds of the Terrestrial Corridor from the Falcons in that new emerging Chaos March

It's hard to say how would Sea Foxes (more precisely Spina Khanate) reacted to request from the FWL government to aid in taking these exFWL worlds from Wolf Empire. Especially if Alaric demanded that they act against it. They are still loyal to Clans.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

100 years of expansion? Lothario is independent, only Illyria remains and a few more worlds, that the Hegemony does not expand its legions is the sole responsibility of the authors, if you read the fluff all the Caesars want to do it, it has been invested in it but it is never achieved, that is a decision of the authors and nothing else.

The conquered populations have the same rights as the citizens of the hegemonic central worlds, they elect senators and representatives to the House of People, in the case of the Illyria worlds it has Senators since 3068, and the same Blantleff and Maximilian, the former worlds. marik since 3075 have Senators in the House of Alphard.

I think your idea about the brutality on the conquered populations is what the Rebels Lotharians and the Canopians say in the fluff, being Citizens for voting Senators from that date, no member of those planets can be enslaved as the Marian Law says according to what published in MPS, and I do not change that later, the only slaves are prisoners of war and captures by raids and nothing else, the rest is propaganda of a state that is dedicated to trafficking in women as a way of life

True. It is afterall the authors who decide who does what, what happens to who etc.

Reading about Julius' painstaking efforts to integrate Lothario and Illyria gives a positive image that the Hegemony was really trying to get legit and build a tolerant nation.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

I doubt that the Foxes move troops and if they expand their protectorate it is at Marik's request to make them more members of the House, I see them benefiting more by selling equipment to Marik to take worlds from the Wolf Empire or to try to take worlds of the Terrestrial Corridor from the Falcons in that new emerging Chaos March

If they attempt to play Alaric out, they might find themselves destroyed. The Foxes are highly vulnerable to a Bearding The Shark 2.0-style campaign.

Taking worlds from the Falcons would be out of the question. They only want strategic worlds as business or factory enclaves, basically they are acting like a Multi-National Corporation in Space.

[Turaglas]

I guess it goes to whomever gives the best offer.

[Kit deSummersville]

True. It is afterall the authors who decide who does what, what happens to who etc.

Except, apparently, what the Caesars want. I guess they write themselves.

[Adacas]

Naaa, those are from the writers, the Caesars reveal a certain lack of imagination, beyond Julius and Sean that with their baseness and alliances of dubious category, we have not had a Caesar like people, nor a Trajan, nor a Hadrian, nor a Marco Aurelio, not a Tito Vespaciano and much less an Augustus, with an intelligent Cesar like any of those options the Hegemony would be much better

[Turaglas]

Except, apparently, what the Caesars want. I guess they write themselves.

That's not how it works.  That's not how any of this works.  That's even more convoluted and contrived than Abbadon's 13 Crusades being retconned for the sake of narrative to make him look like a competent Commander and not a decade old meme.

Unrelated note: I just got the xbox MW5 and now I've spent an unnecessary amount of time painting Legio II.

[Adacas]

Since we are going to the case is that neither Cesares nor Generales nor anything that exemplifies the level of excellence of the MHAF that says Field Manul 3145

[Turaglas]

Excellence is a... stretch in the writing of this context.

On to new and fun things, I've been running around as Legio II in a game they don't exist.  I've called my mercs Cohors Sagittariorum for MW5.  Currently planned to dive from the LC to FWL to visit Alpbard but I want to get cash and my rank up first in career mode.

[Adacas]

Already thinking about the next Rec Guide, there will be more inner sphere designs than Clan as happened in the REc Guide 15 or will it be more Clanner like 15? In any case the doubt is we will continue to touch inner sphere units or something clanner of more than 40 tons?

And then what do you think will appear from the periphery in that one year that IlClan will talk about the entire IS and Periphery before heading to the area around Terra?

[Turaglas]

No idea on either.  Dunno how many mechs are left to do honestly. 

[Adacas]

From what they say in the post of the Rec Guide, there is still a good lot of fundamentally 3050/2750 and 3055 of the Inner Sphere and quite a few second line clans, it is more rumored that the Bane would come out in the next

[Turaglas]

...Hopefully we get that super missile boat bane for other factions.

Not gonna hope for more Periphery mention for IS/Clan mechs though.

[Adacas]

...Hopefully we get that super missile boat bane for other factions.

Not gonna hope for more Periphery mention for IS/Clan mechs though.

Some more mechs are going to fall, almost certainly the most common IICs as happened with the Griffin IIC and the Vixen.

[Turaglas]

Not sure how clan surplus circulates this far out in the boons but I'm trying not to be pedantic over how space economics, trade, and scrap circulate.

[Adacas]

The clanner equipment that reaches us at least could be part Salvage, part small direct sales from Sea Foxes, part sales from third party sales.

[Turaglas]

When did we get the capacity to maintain clan tech mechs?

[Baldur Mekorig]

When did we get the capacity to maintain clan tech mechs?

Its not mentioned, but there is a very small number of clantech mechs appearing in the Periphery general RATs, and that can be blamed on the Sharks. Also things like the Vixen is fluffed as beign sold to the Periphery.

[Adacas]

As they already told you, maintenance can be a problem but both the Vixen and the Fighter that old but omni figure in our MUL so they must be quite common to see, idem the Griffin IIC Standard, it would be interesting to see how many second-line Clan mechs are seen in high numbers in the Periphery those could surely fall into our MUL

[Turaglas]

Now I want to see a Fox jumpship story of going to the Marian Hegemony to see the reactions of alien and sldf anachronistic clanners meeting the alien and anachronistic Nova Romans.