BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Game Universe => The Inner Sphere => Topic started by: tassa_kay on 24 February 2014, 15:52:02
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I'm a VERY recent convert to the CapCon, as I've recently started reading some older novels and sourcebooks and have become totally hooked! But as I was looking around for a general discussion thread for the Cappies, I was shocked to find that there wasn't one!
I see absolutely no reason why there isn't a general discussion thread for the CapCon/House Liao, so I thought I'd do something about that. And I'd like to start by asking every Cappie fan out there, who is your favorite Capellan character and why?
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Good old Max.
He believed in Santa Claus!
It is great fun to imagine to what ends his Court had to go to make his presents appear under the tree.
I like to think the CCAF doubtlessly had a completely deadpan Command Center (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NORAD_Tracks_Santa) dedicated to keeping the Chancellor up to date every Christmas Eve.
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Was Mad Max really that bad?! I'm almost terrified to get my hands on the Warrior trilogy. I feel like it's going to make my blood boil a little bit. Not that I mind having the Capellans portrayed in a villainous light, but I like shades of grey too.
Really, though. Was Max really that bad?
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As portrayed in the book.... Unfortunately. I always viewed him as a certified genius - and certifiable, but a genius none the less. One who wouldn't have been fooled easily. Also, as someone who didn't hesitate to kill off members of the CC, but only to the betterment of the CC as a whole, which he did care deeply for. Like Sun-Tzu with more cackling. :)
The books did not portray him well, though. Still a good read, shows the Davion side quite well.
- Shane
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And I'd like to start by asking every Cappie fan out there, who is your favorite Capellan character and why?
I am no Capellan fan.
Chancellor Maximilian Liao.
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So why Max, martian? :)
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I am no Capellan fan.
Chancellor Maximilian Liao.
It's a tough question. I mean, we've had what, Danai and Loren Jaffray as the only sympathetic Liao characters in novels ever?
So many more heels, and when you're picking a favorite heel, it's hard to top Max.
Still, if we're excluding heels, maybe Archie McCarron. One of my perpetual "when I get around to it" projects is to do up a Xenophon adaptation in the form of the Big Mac's Long March. (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/McCarron%27s_Long_March#McCarron.27s_Long_March)
Tassa, I know you have a thing for hot Liao chicks so you'd do worse than to look up the McCarron's Armored Cavalry scenario pack. I'm not at home right now and don't remember her name, but one of Marcus Barton's officers is right up your alley.
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I always enjoyed Aris Sung.
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I always enjoyed Aris Sung.
Why is that? :)
I have also gotten to know Aris Sung a bit in the Capellan Solution books. Seems like a pretty decent man, as far as things go, but I'm also new so he could be as bad as they come for all I know.
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So why Max, martian? :)
For many people here, he is just "Mad Max". Comical character with his "Oh, shiny!" being his most famous quote. Foolish politician with delusions of grandeur, naive enough to trust Davion spies.
But I remember him as he was in the very first Capellan Confederation housebook from 3025.
Dedicated to his almost-shattered nation, wedged between two much more powerful neighbours.
Ready to use any weapons and tools he was able to find.
Relentless and ruthless.
Respected enemy.
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I'll put myself down for Aris Sung as well. He had a very well defined moral center and strong ethics based on the Lorix order and Kung Fu Tzu (Confucious). All that and he still kicked butt.
And I'm not much of a Cappellan fan.
- Shane
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I always liked Talon Zahn. He's a talented soldier and planner, but not ridiculously so. Plus, he works with Sun-Tzu and manages to stand up to him from time to time.
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I always liked Talon Zahn. He's a talented soldier and planner, but not ridiculously so. Plus, he works with Sun-Tzu and manages to stand up to him from time to time.
I was going to say the same thing but Ion Rush probably comes in a close first over Talon.
Rush is utterly dedicated to the Capellan state, to the point that he recognised that Romano had to die. Despite his treachery (in his mind it was more a good deed for the state rather than a betrayal) he then turns around to work closely with Romano's son, Sun-Tzu.
Why? Because he recognised that promoting Sunny boy to the top job would ultimately benefit the CapCon.
I also like the idea of a warrior house head not just being a mindless killer - instead, he's also a politician who knows how to tread the halls of power and play the game
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...wait, Ion Rush is the one that killed Romano?! I did not know this! :o
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...wait, Ion Rush is the one that killed Romano?! I did not know this! :o
He wasn't. But he helped Candace get into the palace so that she could off her sister.
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He wasn't. But he helped Candace get into the palace so that she could off her sister.
Oh, okay, this seems a lot more in keeping with the little hints I've been reading. I'm kinda reading my way backwards in Capellan continuity (i.e., I've read the Capellan Solution but not the Warrior Trilogy). In which book did this take place?
Also, I could *swear* that Sun-Tzu pretty much took credit for the assassination of the Taurian Protector that happened during the Detroit summit where Sun-Tzu never showed. Is this accurate as well?
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Oh, okay, this seems a lot more in keeping with the little hints I've been reading. I'm kinda reading my way backwards in Capellan continuity (i.e., I've read the Capellan Solution but not the Warrior Trilogy). In which book did this take place?
Right near the end of the blood of kerensky trilogy.
Also, I could *swear* that Sun-Tzu pretty much took credit for the assassination of the Taurian Protector that happened during the Detroit summit where Sun-Tzu never showed. Is this accurate as well?
I don't recall reading anything where he claims credit, but there seems to be assumptions in some source material that this is what happened. And I could see it, because it netted the Cappies another periphery realm to exploit... er assist with advanced knowledge and cooperation ;)
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I don't recall reading anything where he claims credit, but there seems to be assumptions in some source material that this is what happened. And I could see it, because it netted the Cappies another periphery realm to exploit... er assist with advanced knowledge and cooperation ;)
I forget where in the Capellan Solution this was where I was reading it, but he did everything BUT come right out and say he did it. He also noted that Danai Centrella's death during the Great Refusal was fortuitous because he wouldn't have to have her killed (I'm assuming because he was setting up Naomi Centrella to become the Canopian heir). I remember being surprised by this because while I know what Inner Sphere leaders are capable of on a good day, some things still shock me when I don't see them coming.
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I see absolutely no reason why there isn't a general discussion thread for the CapCon/House Liao, so I thought I'd do something about that.
I've never been much of a fan of these sorts of one-faction echo chamber type threads, because I consider the most interesting part of the fiction to be all the varied view points and player passions. Part of the reason behind it may simply be how sour I've been about the idea for so long.
And I'd like to start by asking every Cappie fan out there, who is your favorite Capellan character and why?
Daoshen Liao. He's brilliant, he's human, and he brings it to all comers like Sting clearing the ring during the main event on Monday Nitro.
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Daoshen Liao. He's brilliant, he's human, and he's brings it to all comers like Sting clearing the ring during the Main Event on Monday Nitro.
Plus you could debate all day as to whether he's actually nuts or just projecting an image.
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Plus you could debate all day as to whether he's actually nuts or just projecting an image.
Well, considering that ER:3145 and now H:WotR say that he fully believes in his divinity (edit: in the RPG rules section)...I think he's 100% nuts :D :D
I just hope he doesn't turn into another Mad Max or Romano.. :-X
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Well, considering that ER:3145 and now H:WotR say that he fully believes in his divinity...I think he's 100% nuts :D :D
Considering that it's written by Republic analysts, I'll consider it a 50/50 still ;)
I just hope he doesn't turn into another Mad Max or Romano.. :-X
He's already too successful for that :D
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Considering that it's written by Republic analysts, I'll consider it a 50/50 still ;)
He's already too successful for that :D
Ahh, sorry, I edited it too late.
The whole divinity thing is coming from the OOC RPG section, which has also cleared up some other questionable personalities. Useful section, that.
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I've never been much of a fan of these sorts of one-faction echo chamber type threads, because I consider the most interesting part of the fiction to be all the varied view points and player passions. Part of the reason behind it may simply be how sour I've been about the idea for so long.
I don't see why any of those varied viewpoints and player passions can't be shared in a thread dedicated to the faction itself. It is what you make it, after all. ;)
Plus you could debate all day as to whether he's actually nuts or just projecting an image.
This. I believe that Daoshen is absolutely a product of his upbringing just as Sun-Tzu was, and with the kind of man Sun-Tzu was, I could see Daoshen being groomed to be the kind of leader that projects divinity as just one more part of an ongoing strategy. I can just as easily see Daoshen playing this role for so long and for so well that he's started believing his own hype. But what makes him so fascinating is that you never really know, and there's a case to be made for either side of that equation.
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Daoshen Liao. He's brilliant, he's human, and he brings it to all comers like Sting clearing the ring during the main event on Monday Nitro.
Daoshen is not human, you filthy heretic! He's a god! A god honouring with his mere presence in our world!
Praise his name!
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I often find these faction-centric threads difficult to navigate, which is usually why I choose not to participate. I tend to prefer discussion threads where most of the participants aren't members of my chosen faction. They usually generate the most invigorating discussions about the Confederation.
Having said that, tassa_kay is one of the few online personae that I have a tough time saying "No" to, so I've chosen to chime in here as well.
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As for the opening query:- I can't say that I have an absolute favourite Capellan character. Certainly, there are Capellan-centric characters that I regularly champion in the fiction, such as Kali Liao and Danai Centrella-Liao, but I don't think there's ever been one singular Capellan character who I can confidently say has been the primary focus for my interest in the faction.
I like the mix of personalities and character-types in the fiction for the Confederation too much for me to select just one above them all.
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Awww, I'm flattered, Lore. :)
Kai is the one character that I feel I *should* start reading about, but just can't bring myself to do because he's such good friends with Victor. Victor, the character which I loathe above and beyond all others, including the entirety of Clan Star Adder. I can only *hope* that Daoshen did indeed stick him with a pin to make sure he was dead as was jokingly referred to in "Sword of Sedition".
Victor rant over.
I do have to say that I've found I have the same "problem" myself, Lore. While I absolutely adore Danai and consider her to be one of my favorite BattleTech characters, I am also (as you know all too well) extremely fond of Kali Liao as well, and for completely different reasons. Daoshen is also quickly becoming a favorite, as I find his caginess and his "divinity" to be highly entertaining. Even Romano appeals to me just on her general level of insane bitchiness in the pursuit of safeguarding her nation. I have found that I enjoy various Capellans for vastly differing reasons, and I think that says a lot about the multifaceted character of the CapCon as a whole.
I'd like this to be a place where anyone can jump in and join in any given conversation, and I'd hope that it wouldn't just be a chorus of agreement, as I'm sure many of us do have different opinions on things that have happened, or 'Mech design choices, or even in characters.
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Well, a new Liao thread O0
Just stopping by to say that I too like Danai; she's a tough young lady given what she's been through. If there is any karma in the BTU then she'll get to rule the CC, MoC and FS.
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*snip*
And I'd like to start by asking every Cappie fan out there, who is your favorite Capellan character and why?
Not a Capellan fan aside from my love of the Warrior Houses. That said, I like Faith McCarron mainly because there's so little said about here to my knowledge and I like that in from time to time. Near blank slates can be fun in AToW and fanfic writing.
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I dunno... Romano Liao possibly? Less about her over the top Dragonlady personification, and more about how she was handed the Confederation in shambles and managed to barely keep it together.
Not really much of a "Liao" fan. And not really that much to get behind outside of that dynasty. Pavil Ridzick, maybe?
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I think Tsen Shang is really the unsung hero of the Capellan people.
He kept Romano Liao mostly placated for nearly 30 years. Without him, there might not even be a CapCon today. >:D
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Archie McCarron or Marcus Barton - not many out there who can fight a Davion Guards unit to a draw but they did during the 'long march' or 'McCarron's War'.
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I don't know much about Tsen Shang, much less the McCarrons...
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There's a breif blurb about Tseng Shang in ER 3052 if you don't have access to the old novels. But, basically, he's the guy rebuilt the Mask after the 4th SW and helped shape Sun-Tzu into a competent leader. Or, kept him from becoming another Max or Romano.
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Oh, okay, this seems a lot more in keeping with the little hints I've been reading. I'm kinda reading my way backwards in Capellan continuity (i.e., I've read the Capellan Solution but not the Warrior Trilogy). In which book did this take place?
Also, I could *swear* that Sun-Tzu pretty much took credit for the assassination of the Taurian Protector that happened during the Detroit summit where Sun-Tzu never showed. Is this accurate as well?
Late in the second Blood of Kerensky book, Romano sends an assassin after Candace and Justin. In the third book, we see short bits interspersed with the main storyline of a shadowing figure making his/her way to Sian. We're led to believe it's Justin. In the last Chapter, sun Tzu finds his parents dead, and confronts "Justin" in his old palace office, where Candace reveals that her husband was killed in the assassination, but killed the assassin. She tells him not to fear her or her children, she had plenty of spies in the palace and could've taken the throne from Romano any time she cared to, and that the very reason she'd left him alive now was that she didn't want it.
And yes, it's heavily implied that Jeffery Calderon's "accidental" death when DCs rescued the leaders from the terrorist on Detroit was anything but, though I'm not sure STL ever directly took credit, I think he's a little too savvy to admit it to anyone that didn't already know (and why discuss it with them? someone might overhear).
This. I believe that Daoshen is absolutely a product of his upbringing just as Sun-Tzu was, and with the kind of man Sun-Tzu was, I could see Daoshen being groomed to be the kind of leader that projects divinity as just one more part of an ongoing strategy. I can just as easily see Daoshen playing this role for so long and for so well that he's started believing his own hype. But what makes him so fascinating is that you never really know, and there's a case to be made for either side of that equation.
As GreekFire notes, it's the OOC section on AToW stats and whatnot for the character that says he "fully believes in his divinity" and that he'd take offense if he knew some of his escorts were undercover DCs.
As is patently obvious to anyone who's been on the boards long, I'm no huge fan of the CC. But I've got a lot of respect for it, and even admire a few things about it (the Warrior Houses come to mind). Ma Tsu Kai is a figure I especially respect, and I really like the way he set up his warrior house, educating the warriors in history, philosophy, and political science as well as military matters. The other Capellan character I really admire is admittedly kind of cheating, but I always liked Cassandra Allard-Liao. She really grows up over the course of the Capellan Solution books, and her devotion to Tamas Rubinsky even through his injury and for years (decades, considering the continuing references in the Merc Supplements) afterwards is really touching, and something we could stand to see more of in BT.
I also like lots of Capellan worlds, like Valexa, Axton, Goshen, Lee, Redfield, Ziliang, New Hessen, and so on. They're great places, once you liberate them from the strangling grip of the Liaos. Hell, the 1st Capellan Dragoons was one of my favorite units, full stop. :)
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[deleted]
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Someone up thread mentioned the woman in the command lance of Barton's Regiment, if my memory is working she was called Elaine 'Blaze' Parks, she went onto command McCarron's 1st Regiment 'The Nightriders'.
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Archie McCarron or Marcus Barton - not many out there who can fight a Davion Guards unit to a draw but they did during the 'long march' or 'McCarron's War'.
I always really liked Faith and Rhamses. I think it was a real shame Faith bought it fighting the Republic. It would have been great to see a woman leading what was probably the best merc unit (ok, I know they're bascially house units) in th post-Jihad era.
Her brother seems ok - and i dig the name especially - but it always felt like Faith was the brains of the operation and he was more the brawn
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Someone up thread mentioned the woman in the command lance of Barton's Regiment, if my memory is working she was called Elaine 'Blaze' Parks, she went onto command McCarron's 1st Regiment 'The Nightriders'.
That'd be her, yep. I forgot to look that up when I got home :)
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Someone up thread mentioned the woman in the command lance of Barton's Regiment, if my memory is working she was called Elaine 'Blaze' Parks, she went onto command McCarron's 1st Regiment 'The Nightriders'.
I actually heard of this woman via the Dark Age, surprisingly enough! She has a granddaughter who was in "Principles of Desolation" as one of Danai Liao-Centrella's subcommanders/lancemates in the 2nd MAC.
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I think Tsen Shang is really the unsung hero of the Capellan people.
I wouldn't call him the unsung hero, but he definitely deserves far more credit than he usually receives in most of these kinds of discussions.
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I have several, but I'll list them all. :)
1. Colonel "Sir Samuel" Shimosa, commander, 15th Dracon, 3025- ?. Commander of the Defense of Gunthar during the Andurien/Canopus invasion in 3030. the Canopians attempted to bribe the 15th to stand down. Mistake. The campaign continued for two years, the 15th fulfilling their charge.
2. Ma Tsu Kai. My favorite warrior house. As a historian by training, this one is one of my favorite units. Pawns, indeed. :)
3. Sun Tzu Liao. Ruthless, but a genius and an outstanding politician. One has to admire his chutzpah, though. While never a gifted warrior like his cousin Kai or VSD, he was a BattleMech pilot and took his Emperor into combat zones on several occasions.
4.Aleisha Liao. Most beloved of teh Chancellors until Sun Tzu. The driving force behind the the Ares Conventions. While they did not stop warfare, they limited the harshness on civilians.
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4.Aleisha Liao. Most beloved of teh Chancellors until Sun Tzu. The driving force behind the the Ares Conventions. While they did not stop warfare, they limited the harshness on civilians.
She's actually a great pick. Proof positive that like the Targaryens, House Liao has greatness to go along with the occasional crazy.
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You mean "has crazy, to go along with occasional greatness"? :)
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2. Ma Tsu Kai. My favorite warrior house. As a historian by training, this one is one of my favorite units. Pawns, indeed. :)
3. Sun Tzu Liao. Ruthless, but a genius and an outstanding politician. One has to admire his chutzpah, though. While never a gifted warrior like his cousin Kai or VSD, he was a BattleMech pilot and took his Emperor into combat zones on several occasions.
I don't really have a primary Inner Sphere faction (as there are parts of all of them that I like), but there are definitely a lot of things I love about the Confederation. These two people here? Definitely part of the attraction.
Sun Tzu Liao, to me, is one of the more interesting leaders to read about during the 3050-3065ish era. While from the more VSD oriented books he's widely considered, well, evil, that's not really the vibe I get from him. While you can certainly question the methods of the CapCon at large and Sun Tzu as well, I get the impression that he genuinely cares about humanity, and believes he is doing the best things possible for his people. Yes, he's a gifted manipulator, but he's not without humanity: I think it's the novel "Double Blind" (I can't find my copy, it's whatever the novel is with Avanti's Angels), where he spends time with Naomi Centrella. While he's plotting the entire time, trying to figure out what the heck is going on, he does seem to genuinely enjoy her company, which is very "pet the dog" to me.
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Sun Tzu Liao, to me, is one of the more interesting leaders to read about during the 3050-3065ish era. While from the more VSD oriented books he's widely considered, well, evil, that's not really the vibe I get from him. While you can certainly question the methods of the CapCon at large and Sun Tzu as well, I get the impression that he genuinely cares about humanity, and believes he is doing the best things possible for his people.
A quote I frequently use in .sig files is this one:
“Because the Confederation—the Capellan state—is more important than any historical footnote, any ideal and, under the proper circumstances, any number of lives.” Chancellor Sun-Tzu Liao, The Killing Fields by Loren L. Coleman
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Ive forgotten his name. My favorite capellan character was that dude who saved isis marik in that loren coleman novel.
I feel like sun tzu is not really a product of his upbringing but his personality is in spite of it. Or because he's hanse davions son. Free st ives!
I love the warrior houses. I ran this really fun greenback (capellan commisar) for awhile. The cappies get in alot of fun tussles like the dark age. But I like the magistracy more. Really looking forward to playing out the victoria war
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Ive forgotten his name. My favorite capellan character was that dude who saved isis marik in that loren coleman novel.
I feel like sun tzu is not really a product of his upbringing but his personality is in spite of it. Or because he's hanse davions son. Free st ives!
I love the warrior houses. I ran this really fun greenback (capellan commisar) for awhile. The cappies get in alot of fun tussles like the dark age. But I like the magistracy more. Really looking forward to playing out the victoria war
I've never been able to get into the Magistracy for some reason. I have the same problem with the Taurians, actually. They're both factions I want to like, but whenever I try to get into them, I feel kinda "blah" about them.
The main thing that keeps the Cappies from being my favorite Inner Sphere faction (and part of this may just be ignorance on my part) is the lack of subfactional strife within it (St. Ives excepted). I know it doesn't work well within the general set up of the Confederation, but it definitely adds character to the various other Inner Sphere factions. (In fact, if it weren't for the Draconis and Capellan Marches frequently running off to do their own thing, I probably wouldn't like the FedSuns at all).
Still, between Sun Tzu Liao, several Mech designs I like (being fond of both the desperation era Mechs such as the Vindicator and the Cataphract as well as some of the more recent designs such as the Yu-Huang), one of my favorite Battle Armors on an aesthetic level (the Fa Shih), and that warm fuzzy feeling you get when you play suicidally fanatical factions (a la the Imperial Guard from Warhammer 40K), the Cappies have a lot going for them in my eyes.
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The main thing that keeps the Cappies from being my favorite Inner Sphere faction (and part of this may just be ignorance on my part) is the lack of subfactional strife within it (St. Ives excepted). I know it doesn't work well within the general set up of the Confederation, but it definitely adds character to the various other Inner Sphere factions. (In fact, if it weren't for the Draconis and Capellan Marches frequently running off to do their own thing, I probably wouldn't like the FedSuns at all).
Depends on the era. The CapCon was torn to pieces by treachery in the 4th Succession War, whether that was St. Ives, Tikanov, Free Capella or the deaths of Romano and Tsen Shang. One of the hallmarks of the Sun-Tzu era was the cult of personality and ultra nationalism that squashed all desent. They have been lacking noted division since Xin Sheng, and there hasn't been a major challenge to how they do things in some time. Even their losses to the Republic seem like it's just another reset button going back to do the same things.
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I've never been able to get into the Magistracy for some reason. I have the same problem with the Taurians, actually. They're both factions I want to like, but whenever I try to get into them, I feel kinda "blah" about them.
My problem with the Taurians is that, as a FedSuns fan first, I have a hard time feeling anything but contempt for them. Not for their "rustic and backward" image (I of all people know about being in a "faction" with that image) but because I see precisely how baseless their paranoia is. Most recently, a formerly Davion-employed merc unit goes to Taurus seeking a contract, and they burn them down and launch a full-scale invasion of the FS in response. Really? It is perhaps unsurprising that I do really like the Calderon Protectorate.
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Depends on the era. The CapCon was torn to pieces by treachery in the 4th Succession War, whether that was St. Ives, Tikanov, Free Capella or the deaths of Romano and Tsen Shang. One of the hallmarks of the Sun-Tzu era was the cult of personality and ultra nationalism that squashed all desent. They have been lacking noted division since Xin Sheng, and there hasn't been a major challenge to how they do things in some time. Even their losses to the Republic seem like it's just another reset button going back to do the same things.
Sun-Tzu's conflict with his son in the recent Wars of try Republic is pretty interesting. Had Sunny boy not died on Liao, I wouldn't be suprised if Daoshen didn't have him bumped off to cement his hold over the nation
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Sun-Tzu's conflict with his son in the recent Wars of try Republic is pretty interesting. Had Sunny boy not died on Liao, I wouldn't be suprised if Daoshen didn't have him bumped off to cement his hold over the nation
The problem is that Daoshen would have to get it in his head that Sun-Tzu needed to "ascend" for him to take that kind of action. The more likely scenario is that Sun-Tzu would probably have killed Daoshen before Daoshen would've killed him. That is because Sun-Tzu feared an out of control mad Chancellor more than anything else, and Wars of the Republic Era does point out that Sun-Tzu really had a distaste for those who worshipped him as a 'god'. As long as it served the state, he was fine with it, but if it became a threat to the state, Sun-Tzu would have exterminated anyone who believed he was a god.
My problem with the Taurians is that, as a FedSuns fan first, I have a hard time feeling anything but contempt for them. Not for their "rustic and backward" image (I of all people know about being in a "faction" with that image) but because I see precisely how baseless their paranoia is. Most recently, a formerly Davion-employed merc unit goes to Taurus seeking a contract, and they burn them down and launch a full-scale invasion of the FS in response. Really? It is perhaps unsurprising that I do really like the Calderon Protectorate.
That's been my problem with Taurian Concordat forever: the paranoia. Yeah, the Terran Hegemony and Suns as the Star League destroyed the Taurian Concordat of old, but in that time since, the Suns really hasn't done anything close to what the Star League did. However, the paranoia of the Taurians personified into a character named Grover Shraplen. The obsessions of Grover and his successor on the "secret" plots of Davions know only to him allowed the Taurians to be used and abused by Capellans and Terrans in the form of the Word of Blake.
But like AW, I do have a fondness for the real Taurian Concordat as the Calderon Protectorate.
I've never been able to get into the Magistracy for some reason. I have the same problem with the Taurians, actually. They're both factions I want to like, but whenever I try to get into them, I feel kinda "blah" about them.
The main thing that keeps the Cappies from being my favorite Inner Sphere faction (and part of this may just be ignorance on my part) is the lack of subfactional strife within it (St. Ives excepted). I know it doesn't work well within the general set up of the Confederation, but it definitely adds character to the various other Inner Sphere factions. (In fact, if it weren't for the Draconis and Capellan Marches frequently running off to do their own thing, I probably wouldn't like the FedSuns at all).
Still, between Sun Tzu Liao, several Mech designs I like (being fond of both the desperation era Mechs such as the Vindicator and the Cataphract as well as some of the more recent designs such as the Yu-Huang), one of my favorite Battle Armors on an aesthetic level (the Fa Shih), and that warm fuzzy feeling you get when you play suicidally fanatical factions (a la the Imperial Guard from Warhammer 40K), the Cappies have a lot going for them in my eyes.
First let me say that the Magistracy is another faction that I cannot fathom ever liking unless the women in charge all suddenly become saintly nuns.
(crickets chirping).
Yeah, I figured that would be the response. Basically, my issue with the Magistracy steams from their form of morality: hedonism. To me, I could even grudgingly live with the female lead society if not for the obsession with cheap thrills for the moment. It's actually close to my vision of hell where everyone is showing off their favorite pleasures right in front of me while all reciting Romeo and Juliet for all of eternity, and there is no way to stop it.
Other people would probably think it is paradise. Personally, I wish that they'd go back to Canopus and put some clothes on. And I don't mean like dressing up like Rita Repulsa to attract the attention of their brothers.
And if the Fronc Reaches would reject all Canopian influences, it would be a much better faction.
That being said. The thing that has always kept me out of the Capellan Confederation is the fact that I don't like the social contract of the place. The great Celestial Machine concept of the Capellans is just a version of Hobbes' Sovereign which I reject wholeheartedly. Along with the idea that he Chancellor being the head of the machine basically meaing control bugs me.
However, the Capellans do create some wonderful mech like the Sha Yu. Heaven in the highest, I do love fast mediums.
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The problem is that Daoshen would have to get it in his head that Sun-Tzu needed to "ascend" for him to take that kind of action. The more likely scenario is that Sun-Tzu would probably have killed Daoshen before Daoshen would've killed him. That is because Sun-Tzu feared an out of control mad Chancellor more than anything else, and Wars of the Republic Era does point out that Sun-Tzu really had a distaste for those who worshipped him as a 'god'. As long as it served the state, he was fine with it, but if it became a threat to the state, Sun-Tzu would have exterminated anyone who believed he was a god.
I think this highlights what I like about Sun Tzu. At his heart, he is not an egomaniacal mad man.
That may have sounded better in my head, but you know what I mean.
That's been my problem with Taurian Concordat forever: the paranoia. Yeah, the Terran Hegemony and Suns as the Star League destroyed the Taurian Concordat of old, but in that time since, the Suns really hasn't done anything close to what the Star League did. However, the paranoia of the Taurians personified into a character named Grover Shraplen. The obsessions of Grover and his successor on the "secret" plots of Davions know only to him allowed the Taurians to be used and abused by Capellans and Terrans in the form of the Word of Blake.
But like AW, I do have a fondness for the real Taurian Concordat as the Calderon Protectorate.
Maybe I'm just interpreting them incorrectly (I figure there's got to be something I'm missing), but to me, the Taurians seem kinda...bland. "Oh, we're the civilized rational thinkers." "And? What else ya got?" "Um...paranoia?"
First let me say that the Magistracy is another faction that I cannot fathom ever liking unless the women in charge all suddenly become saintly nuns.
(crickets chirping).
Yeah, I figured that would be the response. Basically, my issue with the Magistracy steams from their form of morality: hedonism. To me, I could even grudgingly live with the female lead society if not for the obsession with cheap thrills for the moment. It's actually close to my vision of hell where everyone is showing off their favorite pleasures right in front of me while all reciting Romeo and Juliet for all of eternity, and there is no way to stop it.
Other people would probably think it is paradise. Personally, I wish that they'd go back to Canopus and put some clothes on. And I don't mean like dressing up like Rita Repulsa to attract the attention of their brothers.
And if the Fronc Reaches would reject all Canopian influences, it would be a much better faction.
If you take what I said about the Taurians, and replaced "civilized and rational thinkers" with "naked hedonists", you'd probably get my viewpoint on Canopus. Again, there's GOT to be something I'm missing, here.
That being said. The thing that has always kept me out of the Capellan Confederation is the fact that I don't like the social contract of the place. The great Celestial Machine concept of the Capellans is just a version of Hobbes' Sovereign which I reject wholeheartedly. Along with the idea that he Chancellor being the head of the machine basically meaing control bugs me.
However, the Capellans do create some wonderful mech like the Sha Yu. Heaven in the highest, I do love fast mediums.
*Cue Jantern trying to tread lightly on political discussion*
Don't get me wrong, from a real world standpoint I'm probably more FWLer than Cappie, if'n you catch my drift, but from a player's perspective, from an RPing perspective, playing that sort of faction is interesting, and could be kind of fun. Likewise, I enjoy non-secular ComStar despite not being the most religiously devout of individuals. I don't generally play factions because I want to live there, eh? Because let's face it, EVERY faction probably has reasons you DON'T want to be there. :D
(I will admit to enjoying the Lyrans because I have about a similar grasp of military tactics. ;D )
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That being said. The thing that has always kept me out of the Capellan Confederation is the fact that I don't like the social contract of the place. The great Celestial Machine concept of the Capellans is just a version of Hobbes' Sovereign which I reject wholeheartedly. Along with the idea that he Chancellor being the head of the machine basically meaing control bugs me.
I see it as much more Republic than Leviathan, but I can see where you may see Hobbesian influence in the Sarna Mandate.
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The hedonism in and of itself doesn't bother me. Just that it's so often the thing used to define Canopus. The best metaphor I can think of is "shallow party girl". Sure, looks fun, but really not that interesting of a conversationalist. I think the metaphor may have gotten away from me somewhere, but you sorta catch my drift, right?
I get that impression more from the forums than from the setting itself. I think that's more of a contributing factor than anything else.
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I get that impression more from the forums than from the setting itself. I think that's more of a contributing factor than anything else.
You're probably right. Admittedly, most of the stuff I have on the Periphery is on the East Coast, where I am not, so when I cite ignorance on the subject of Magistracy and the Taurians, that's why.
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Canopus and Capella are far more compatible that I think most people think, or perhaps it'd be more accurate for me to say they are complimentary.
Canopus desires to be left alone to profit peacefully. They excel in specific support fields such as medicine and entertainment but have never been a military or industrial power.
Capella actually has a fair mount of industrial output but few unrestricted trading partners, and tends to focus everything on just guaranteeing its future survival.
Together they quite easily make up for their own individual short-comings, and both have a natural and long-held aversion to armed conquest, or what they percieve as such. While the Canopians may enjoy a freedom of political expression which would be considered treasonous in the Capellan Confederation, in reality the distinction is moot - Canopians are so indifferent regarding their own politics that they've voted for the Centrella dynasty for hundreds of years without the slightest sign of wavering. Both powers have far more to gain by their cooperation than they do from conflict along their border.
I get that impression more from the forums than from the setting itself. I think that's more of a contributing factor than anything else.
The originally Periphery Sourcebook laid it on thick with a trowel. Later sources have dialed it back somewhat.
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Canopus and Capella are far more compatible that I think most people think, or perhaps it'd be more accurate for me to say they are complimentary.
Canopus desires to be left alone to profit peacefully. They excel in specific support fields such as medicine and entertainment but have never been a military or industrial power.
Capella actually has a fair mount of industrial output but few unrestricted trading partners, and tends to focus everything on just guaranteeing its future survival.
Together they quite easily make up for their own individual short-comings, and both have a natural and long-held aversion to armed conquest, or what they percieve as such. While the Canopians may enjoy a freedom of political expression which would be considered treasonous in the Capellan Confederation, in reality the distinction is moot - Canopians are so indifferent regarding their own politics that they've voted for the Centrella dynasty for hundreds of years without the slightest sign of wavering. Both powers have far more to gain by their cooperation than they do from conflict along their border.
It feels to me that the Confederation was in a rather unique position. Most of the other Successor States seemed to view the Periphery powers as too unimportant to bother with. Sun Tzu seemed to be the one to realize that, when your back is to the wall, ANY ally is better than no ally. And the Confederation definitely profited from it.
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Davion seems to be realizing that now. Thankfully, Filtvelt is quite happy to assist the FS, even if they don't want membership anymore.
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Hm, jumping on late...
Favorite characters...hm. Well most of mine have already been said.
It was the "Capellan Solution" books that firmly got me hooked to the CapCon. And while there are certainly aspects of the social and political side of the realm I vehemently dislike/disagree with, there are still many things I like.
But anyway, back to my picks:
Sun-Tzu - Monster, murderer, mad man. Just a few of the commonly held views on arguably one of the most successful Chancellors the Confederation has ever had (I rate him up ther with Aliesha, Ursula, Barbara & Ilsa. Funny how all my favorite Chancellors are women. Kind of why I'm hoping Danai CL dethrones Daoshen). A man willing to rain fire on innocents to chase his mad dreams of power. And yet, none of these views are quite the truth. Yes, there is a ruthlessness to him, a willingness to do whatever it takes to make the Confederation stronger. Yet, it is not merely for personally power that he directs such actions. It is from a truely deep concern for the well-being of his realm that acts as he does. He would give his last breath, his soul even if it would make his people stronger. What other leader of his generation could say the say? Victor? A man dedicated to peace? If that were true why did he wait to remove his sister from power when he had the chance to, instead of waiting until she forced the issue. 5 years and millions of lost lives could have been prevented. Sun Tzu would never had let such a calamitous outcome befall his people.
Aris Sung - Well, as I said, CS books really got me into the fold, so he's certainly one of my heroes of the CC. One of love the audacious way he joined House Hiritsu. Second I really enjoyed reading about his growth as a character. Could have been just another MechWarrior fighting for king and country...but, he isn't. One of the best things he did was not on the battlefield (well...okay, it sort of is but bear with me), it was changing the focus of the CC-St. Ives war, at least for House Hiritsu. By the time he was in combat, the war had gotten pretty bloody, pretty much a blood-feud. But Aris realized that it couldn't continue that way, things had to change. St. Ives wasn't an enemy to be conquered, they were cousins, long lost, that had to be shown how far they had strayed. (As an aside I believe this is how Sun-Tzu genuinely feels about all of the sundered Capellan worlds. Not as another conquest to add to a list of accomplishments, but as returning lost and fallen children to their rightful place in the universe. Even if it must be done sternly.)
Talon Zhan - I really enjoyed reading the interaction between him and Sun-Tzu. Most certainly, though rarely credited for it, one of the most gifted strategists of his generation. I don't think he would not have risen so high in any of the other Houses: quite simply most of the other leaders were all military men(or women) and wouldn't have given much thought to asking his advice, let alone letting him wage the conflicts of his day as he saw fit.
Ion Rush - Well...we share the same name, so he'll always be a favorite for that simple fact. As a character, well, he could have become just another DC only in charge of the Warrior Houses, and yet he is more than that. To me he embodies all that is worthy in the Capellan Warrior Houses.
And finally: Cassandra Allard-Liao - Have to agree with Arkansas Warrior about her. Along with Aris Sung, she is certainly my favorite character in the CS duology. I tremendously enjoyed reading her story and Tamas Rubinsky (BT hasn't ever really done romance between characters well, I think this is one of the very few that actually works). And Rubinsky's Light Horse became my favorite Merc faction. The fact that they didn't show up on the rolls of active Mercs is about the only thing I have left to hate about the DA now. (I did ask the writers what happened to them in the intervening years between the Jihad and DA; was told "Don't know, hasn't been written".)
How about least favorite character? Mine is Kai. He was cool up until he turned traitor and joined the Republic (Of all the factions he could have joined...). I guess in the end he was more Davion than Liao. I'll just say his ending was...fitting.
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It feels to me that the Confederation was in a rather unique position. Most of the other Successor States seemed to view the Periphery powers as too unimportant to bother with. Sun Tzu seemed to be the one to realize that, when your back is to the wall, ANY ally is better than no ally. And the Confederation definitely profited from it.
Manipulation is a factor as well... especially during the Sun-Tzu-era.
What and who he can manipulate -- predominantly for the Confederation's advantage -- has long been suggested in the source material as part of Sun-Tzu's gambling with the various neighbouring Periphery powers.
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Anyone gotten some games in with Yao Lien's? I used one against the bot and thought it handled alright as a substitute for a 3LL Cataphract. The full force was a 9H Ti Ts'ang, Yao Lien, R10 Duan Gung, Po II, and a stand of Ying Long's. I've wanted to actually field the Stealth Po II but MM has failed to read my skunkwerks file so I've been using the UAC-20 version. Anyway, just curious on the experiences people have had (and yeah, if I had a stealth Po II, the Ying Long's would dig in to provide more point defense for the stealth tank. Mimetic armor, digging in, and woods don't make you many friends, and thus why they don't have a transport (and I don't have any BV left, but still!)) :D
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Anyone gotten some games in with Yao Lien's? I used one against the bot and thought it handled alright as a substitute for a 3LL Cataphract. The full force was a 9H Ti Ts'ang, Yao Lien, R10 Duan Gung, Po II, and a stand of Ying Long's. I've wanted to actually field the Stealth Po II but MM has failed to read my skunkwerks file so I've been using the UAC-20 version. Anyway, just curious on the experiences people have had (and yeah, if I had a stealth Po II, the Ying Long's would dig in to provide more point defense for the stealth tank. Mimetic armor, digging in, and woods don't make you many friends, and thus why they don't have a transport (and I don't have any BV left, but still!)) :D
I've made some use of the hockey masked killers, yeah.
There nothing new or flash but they're effective. I play a lot of post-jihad-early Republic and hav rams use of them assisting mainly infantry based insurgencies and a like. I've found they're very effective taking down vehicles and a like and can take a fair walloping.
I'm keen to play through the new Capellan Crusades outlined in the new Historicals book and will put Yao Liens to good use!
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So here's a question. All of the Vandal configs have C3B, be it masters or slave modules. However, as near as I can tell, the Vandal is the only 'Mech available to the CCAF that has C3B. So what are they doing, running in all-Vandal lances? Or is there some other 'Mech I'm missing here?
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I do believe Field Manual 3145 mentions the capture of a JagerMech line at Victoria, which likely produces the BC3 variant. Beyond that, however, it's likely the occasional captured Davion unit, custom rebuild or one-off OmniMech configuration.
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Manipulation is a factor as well... especially during the Sun-Tzu-era.
What and who he can manipulate -- predominantly for the Confederation's advantage -- has long been suggested in the source material as part of Sun-Tzu's gambling with the various neighbouring Periphery powers.
The other thing to remember is that unlike most of the Periphery, Canopus was willing to trust an Inner Sphere nation. They were looking to join the big leagues thanks to everyone's favorite Roman pirates, the Marians. To do that they had to branch out. First to the Anduriens, second to the Capellans. The Taurians had to be manipulated in, and pretty much bugged out when called upon to fulfill Trinity Alliance obligations. The other houses aren't going to get the same relationships with Periphery neighbor states.
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So here's a question. All of the Vandal configs have C3B, be it masters or slave modules. However, as near as I can tell, the Vandal is the only 'Mech available to the CCAF that has C3B. So what are they doing, running in all-Vandal lances? Or is there some other 'Mech I'm missing here?
According to this post:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,33732.msg849525.html (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,33732.msg849525.html)
C3B and C3 can be linked in the same network.
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According to this post:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,33732.msg849525.html (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,33732.msg849525.html)
C3B and C3 can be linked in the same network.
It's worth nothing, however, that the network functions entirely as standard rather than boosted C3 in such a scenario.
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Was Mad Max really that bad?! I'm almost terrified to get my hands on the Warrior trilogy. I feel like it's going to make my blood boil a little bit. Not that I mind having the Capellans portrayed in a villainous light, but I like shades of grey too.
Really, though. Was Max really that bad?
Mad Max was out in his own little delusional world, under times of stress he would do even stranger things. Though because of him we had Romano, well let's forget about her, as she was nuttier than a squirrel in a nut factory, at least she gave us Sun-Tzu, thank goodness.
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Mad Max was out in his own little delusional world, under times of stress he would do even stranger things. Though because of him we had Romano, well let's forget about her, as she was nuttier than a squirrel in a nut factory, at least she gave us Sun-Tzu, thank goodness.
"Grab the plates!"
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"They show the worlds he means to invade!" ;D
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wasn't it "they show the worlds he means to conquer?"
and from the novels, "mad" Max had his lucid periods.. i wouldn't be surprised if he had something like a manic depressive disorder. though i suspect that due to his position and the way the capellans treated their rulers (even before he became in charge), he likely had only a tenuous grasp of reality in some areas to begin with.
Romano seems to have been completely nuts.. in the novels she starts out just a completely self centered manipulative brat, and after taking over the CC, seems to have lost most connection to reality.. i suspect that were it not for Tsen Shang, the CC would have collapsed utterly instead of just becoming "the sick man of the inner sphere"..
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wasn't it "they show the worlds he means to conquer?"
and from the novels, "mad" Max had his lucid periods.. i wouldn't be surprised if he had something like a manic depressive disorder. though i suspect that due to his position and the way the capellans treated their rulers (even before he became in charge), he likely had only a tenuous grasp of reality in some areas to begin with.
Romano seems to have been completely nuts.. in the novels she starts out just a completely self centered manipulative brat, and after taking over the CC, seems to have lost most connection to reality.. i suspect that were it not for Tsen Shang, the CC would have collapsed utterly instead of just becoming "the sick man of the inner sphere"..
Something like that. It's been years since I last read the Warrior Trilogy.
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I'm a VERY recent convert to the CapCon, as I've recently started reading some older novels and sourcebooks and have become totally hooked! But as I was looking around for a general discussion thread for the Cappies, I was shocked to find that there wasn't one!
I see absolutely no reason why there isn't a general discussion thread for the CapCon/House Liao, so I thought I'd do something about that. And I'd like to start by asking every Cappie fan out there, who is your favorite Capellan character and why?
Nice to see you in jade, Tassa. :)
As for my favorite personalities, Director Nancy Bao Lee and Lord Tsen Shang.
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Nice to see you in jade, Tassa. :)
Thank you! I feel like it looks great on me. :)
As for my favorite personalities, Director Nancy Bao Lee and Lord Tsen Shang.
I read Nancy in the Capellan Solution books, and I quite liked her, too. She seems like she's been good for the Maskirovka, and I like what I've read of her so far.
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Nice to see you in jade, Tassa. :)
As for my favorite personalities, Director Nancy Bao Lee and Lord Tsen Shang.
I forgot about Bao Lee.
I'll note that I made quite a statement of support for her a few years back on these boards. It received quite a virtual applause from my fellow Capellan brothers... as I recall.
Trust the return of Citzen Oldfart to remind me of this. }:)
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I forgot about Bao Lee.
I'll note that I made quite a statement of support for her a few years back on these boards. It received quite a virtual applause from my fellow Capellan brothers... as I recall.
Trust the return of Citzen Oldfart to remind me of this. }:)
The illustration of her in Assumption of Risk also reveals her to be a smok'in hottie too...
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What's Assumption of Risk about? I haven't added that one to my reading list yet...
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What's Assumption of Risk about? I haven't added that one to my reading list yet...
It's a very good book and I'd recommend it. It's mainly focused around Kai - who after the clan war headed to Solaris and became champion. Without giving away too much, his past comes back to haunt him in the form of his old flame from the clan invasion, his meddling uncle Tormano and some Steiner-Davion nobility.
All the while training to defend his title as champion AND ensure the FedCom doesn't descend into war with the FWL and the Cappies, courtesy of some politic stoushes.
Really good Solaris arena action, some interesting characters and political intrigue.
And for you CapCon fans, there's plenty of fact time around Tormano and Kai and some Mask meddling
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Assumption makes it clear that Free Capella were no angels. Tormano is depicted as being selfish and self-important, and willing to force Kai into being the champion of the cause to manufacture a hero
Plus it's got one of my favourite minor characters in a guest spot. Not gonna spoil it and say who.
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What's Assumption of Risk about? I haven't added that one to my reading list yet...
It and the Capellan Solution books are good reading for the "rise" of the Confederation under Sun-Tzu
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Hmmm.... Larry Acuff or Keith Smith? (Actually, I can't remember if Smith was his last name or not)
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On a tangent... I've been out for a while and just got a load of the 3145 map. Chesterton, Tikonov, Victoria... the ancestral worlds appear to have been mostly retaken. What is there left for a rabid cappie to do? It kind of looks like it's time for peace...?
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Why stop at Chesterton? Retake more ancestral worlds the CC never held, like New Syrtis (done), Kathil, Terra, Hesperus II, and Strana Mechty!
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Oh, please. Spare us the rhetoric. Every world the FedSuns loses now is karma for that FedCom wedding toast. You've earned it! O0
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On a tangent... I've been out for a while and just got a load of the 3145 map. Chesterton, Tikonov, Victoria... the ancestral worlds appear to have been mostly retaken. What is there left for a rabid cappie to do? It kind of looks like it's time for peace...?
Sure we've reclaimed long lost worlds, and got our revenge on the satanic Hasek clan. So, it may seem like things will get boring. :-\
But remember, there are Stoners that will need a healthy dose of killin' in the near future. And the Davionista still plots and schemes. The security of the Capellan State is an ongoing affair, Citizen. }:)
A friendly reminder, always keep a look out for suspicious activities, and promptly report them to your local office of the Chancellor's Shield. An observant Citizen is a good Citizen. [copper]
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Besides, it doesn't look like the Capellans are nearly done reclaiming their worlds, anyway, if we're judging by the 2750-2765 maps. ;)
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Besides, it doesn't look like the Capellans are nearly done reclaiming their worlds, anyway, if we're judging by the 2750-2765 maps. ;)
Our work is never done. :P ;)
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Question:
Which Liao units have faced off against Clan units?
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On a tangent... I've been out for a while and just got a load of the 3145 map. Chesterton, Tikonov, Victoria... the ancestral worlds appear to have been mostly retaken. What is there left for a rabid cappie to do? It kind of looks like it's time for peace...?
Not until Andurien is an actual Cappellan world will their feelings of perpetual injustice come close to being sated.
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Question:
Which Liao units have faced off against Clan units?
I know the Red Lancers and St. Ives Lancers for sure.
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Question:
Which Liao units have faced off against Clan units?
A fair number. Off the top of my head -
Red Lancers
Dynasty Guard
Warrior House Ijori
Warror House Dai Da Chi
Kingston's Rangers
1st St. Ives Lancers
I'm sure we can pull up a few more given some time....
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Would the units that fought against Nova Cat forces during early 3080s count?
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I think the Harloc Raiders were on Coventry...
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I think the Harloc Raiders were on Coventry...
But wouldn't have actually seen combat because Victor brought the Falcons to the bargaining table.
However, te founding CO of the Raiders is mentioned as being killed by the Clans, prompting the unit to recall his son. His son, a Solaris gladiator who faced Kai Allard-Liao in Assumption of Risk.
Additionally, a lot of Cappie units faced Nova Cat troops sworn to Devlin Stone as part of Sun-Tzu's push to reclaim old Liao worlds between 3081-85. This was prior to the RAF rolling the various foreign units together
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A fair number. Off the top of my head -
Red Lancers
Dynasty Guard
Warrior House Ijori
Warror House Dai Da Chi
Kingston's Rangers
1st St. Ives Lancers
I'm sure we can pull up a few more given some time....
Any idea on their opponents?
Would the units that fought against Nova Cat forces during early 3080s count?
Sure!
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Also, include the Nova Cat units they fought in St. Ives during Sun-Tzu's use of Star League peacekeeping forces during that conflict.
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Kingston's Rangers
1st St. Ives Lancers
The Rangers were the CC part of operation Serpent, while the Lancers took part in Bulldog, so for both, the foe were the Jaguars.
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The Rangers were the CC part of operation Serpent, while the Lancers took part in Bulldog, so for both, the foe were the Jaguars.
Warrior House DaiDai Chi also faced the Jaguars as part of Bulldog according to the era report that covered those years (maybe era report: 3062?)
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Ijori fought the Steel Vipers whilst on loan to the Lyrans.
I think one of the MAC regiments took part in Bulldog as well.
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I think one of the MAC regiments took part in Bulldog as well.
I want to say it was the 2nd, but I'm away from my sourcebooks at the moment.....
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I want to say it was the 2nd, but I'm away from my sourcebooks at the moment.....
That's the one i was thinking of as well, but for some reason i seem to remember the 1st also had some clan mechs taken as salvage.
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There's also the Sea Fox factor- Trials of Possession in Confederation space allow any/all CCAF units to plausibly have had combat experience at least vs the Foxes.
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No clan forces in the confederation to trial against the sea foxes.
There is a precedent for a draconis combine business pair bringing in a jade falcon to challenge a warrior merchant to trial against the sea foxes.
Trials dont make alot of sense for clan sea fox, if they are declaring trials they get a chance to take something at a possible loss of valuable warriors and war machines.
Accepting challenges from successor states is an avenue for loss and they are not honor bound to accept. Likewise declaring trials would be considered raiding.
No profit in that. Clan Sea Fox has had strained relationships with the capellans. Check the write up of the nagasawa.
At the end of the day we have all the advantages in our favor to trade with the successor states. So avoiding trials makes sense in alot of ways.
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I was under the impression that trials were a regular part of the Fox negotiation process. That seems like the suggestion from a lot of the DA material. In fact, your post is the first indication I've seen that the Foxes would not normally use trials against IS forces.
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I was under the impression that trials were a regular part of the Fox negotiation process. That seems like the suggestion from a lot of the DA material. In fact, your post is the first indication I've seen that the Foxes would not normally use trials against IS forces.
I was under that impression as well.
Though I hardly think such matches would be to the death. More likely till one side is crippled.
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I was under that impression as well.
Though I hardly think such matches would be to the death. More likely till one side is crippled.
Perhaps even just a ritual exchange of shots/blows to satisfy honor. And then everyone heads to the bargaining table
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No clan forces in the confederation to trial against the sea foxes.
There is a precedent for a draconis combine business pair bringing in a jade falcon to challenge a warrior merchant to trial against the sea foxes.
Trials dont make alot of sense for clan sea fox, if they are declaring trials they get a chance to take something at a possible loss of valuable warriors and war machines.
Accepting challenges from successor states is an avenue for loss and they are not honor bound to accept. Likewise declaring trials would be considered raiding.
No profit in that. Clan Sea Fox has had strained relationships with the capellans. Check the write up of the nagasawa.
At the end of the day we have all the advantages in our favor to trade with the successor states. So avoiding trials makes sense in alot of ways.
I'm sure that 99% of the Fox merchants' transactions with IS merchants don't involve trials. But every once in a while the Fox merchant just really wants some macguffin the IS merchant isn't willing to part with at all, or perhaps is unreasonable about a price. The Warrior caste and Trials of possession is a trump card that a fox merchant can use as a threat to keep negotiations going.. "You just won't sell that, huh? You suuuuuuuure you want me to come back with the warriors?"
And of course if negotiations ultimately dont' work out the ToP can go from threat to actual use as a last ditch effort to snag that macguffin.
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Considering that "warrior-merchant" seems to be a fairly regular concept among the Shark Foxes, I doubt the negotiator would even need to leave and come back. All he'd need is to switch hats.
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Well, I'm wanting to try something different for early Jihad Capellan and try a C3-equipped lance. This is what I came up with:
Lao Hu -3B 1497 BV
Sha Yu -4B 1348
Firestarter Omni -D 1322
Blackjack Omni -B 1323
Fa Shih LRR x2 506
For a total of 5996 BV. I'm not really happy with teh Blackjack. I might work up a custom load for a Men Shen in its place. One thing I find off is that the -4B Sha Yu is a C3 slave unit..with stealth?!! (Yes, I know activating stealth takes it out of the network.)
All the units are available before 3065. I'm thinking of painting them up in Ma Tsu Kai colors. With their more historical bent, I can see them as at least trying out a C3 network.
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Instead of the Blackjack have you thought about a Helios C? Still has C3 and it hits a little harder at close range than the Blackjack.
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(Yes, I know activating stealth takes it out of the network.)
What do you mean? TW just says that SA only affects the nearest units in a C3 network by giving stealth maluses to the THN, not the farther units it is linked to, and that an attacking C3 ennemy unit within ECM range is cut off from the network. ;)
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Huh. I must have read that to mean that it cuts off all C3, including itself.
I've not played with or against Kurita/Comstar/WoB (the big networkers) so I'm kinda hazy on the details. That's why a unit with both Stealth and C3 seemed odd to me.
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What do you mean? TW just says that SA only affects the nearest units in a C3 network by giving stealth maluses to the THN, not the farther units it is linked to, and that an attacking C3 ennemy unit within ECM range is cut off from the network. ;)
He means a Sha Yu with SA on will stop its own C3 from working.
I think the idea is to use the SA to close, then turn it off and use the ECM to disrupt the enemy or run it in ECCM to make sure the C3 signal gets out. The range on IS MPLs is very short, so it makes for a pretty good C3 spotter since it will be so close to engage anyway.
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Ok, so I was right on what I was thinking. lol.
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Hello, fellow Capellans. Tragedy brought me back to the forums from my busy work schedule but I couldn't not swing by and not say howdy to those loyal to House Liao.
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Howdy, Hikage!
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Does it sound right that the Warrior Houses maintain an infantry contingent between platoon and company strength after they restructured their organization in the 3080s after their failure in Operation Golden Fortress? Basically it would be a mixture of those undergoing training (both basic as well as more specialized battle armor/MechWarrior training), the training cadre, their stronghold's security detail and those awaiting an opening in one of the battalions. Those warrior houses that suffered heavy casualties would temporarily have smaller contingents while those who were fortunate enough not to would have larger.
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Does it sound right that the Warrior Houses maintain an infantry contingent between platoon and company strength?
I know that ideally House Hiritsu fields a full battalion plus command lance of mechs (40 total), and a full battalion of infantry. They were at times (often?) understrength, particularly the mech contingent, however. In 3067 the infantry battalion was noted as including an armored support lance (which may have been LRM carriers IIRC) and two platoons of BattleArmor (although its not clear if the BA was in addition to the battalion of conventional infantry, or if they replaced two platoons in the battalion).
I think the same two battalion formation is common to the other Warrior Houses, but I admit Hiritsu is the only one I ever really did any detailed research on.
Hope that helps! ;)
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I know that ideally House Hiritsu fields a full battalion plus command lance of mechs (40 total), and a full battalion of infantry. They were at times (often?) understrength, particularly the mech contingent, however. In 3067 the infantry battalion was noted as including an armored support lance (which may have been LRM carriers IIRC) and two platoons of BattleArmor (although its not clear if the BA was in addition to the battalion of conventional infantry, or if they replaced two platoons in the battalion).
I think the same two battalion formation is common to the other Warrior Houses, but I admit Hiritsu is the only one I ever really did any detailed research on.
Hope that helps! ;)
Sorry my bad I wasn't clear. I was talking about after Sun-Tzu authorized the Grand Master of the Warrior Houses to restructure Warrior House organization (after the failure of Operation Golden Fortress). In the 3080s they were reformed into two mixed battalion - one of 24 'Mechs and 48 Battle Armor and the other 12 Mechs and 96 Battle Armor. Standard Infantry (as well as any aerospace forces) were apparently completly removed from their official combat structure.
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Does it sound right that the Warrior Houses maintain an infantry contingent between platoon and company strength after they restructured their organization in the 3080s after their failure in Operation Golden Fortress? Basically it would be a mixture of those undergoing training (both basic as well as more specialized battle armor/MechWarrior training), the training cadre, their stronghold's security detail and those awaiting an opening in one of the battalions. Those warrior houses that suffered heavy casualties would temporarily have smaller contingents while those who were fortunate enough not to would have larger.
Totally.
FM: 3085 mentions the various shattered house's holdfasts being run by trainees, injured vets and candidates.
Operational WH need someone to garrison their holdings and train new troops. I imagine a company or so of candidates aged from 11 to 18 or so who mount guard and even provide limited rear area security. This would form part of their training.
They're probably led by veteran officers or officers crippled in the line of duty, etc
Additionally, warriors who can no longer fight in the font lines would undoubtably serve as trainers, managers, etc.
So all up, maybe a company of green rifle foot infantry led by vet officers/NCOs
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Additionally, warriors who can no longer fight in the font lines would undoubtably serve as trainers, managers, etc.
Not to mention some candidates who aren't qualified for becoming either a MechWarrior or and Armored Infantryman.
So all up, maybe a company of green rifle foot infantry led by vet officers/NCOs
Personally I would rank them at least regular given how harsh their training is [whipit] (I doubt the Warrior Houses made it any easier) and how unlikely the Houses tolerate any slacking off.
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Sorry my bad I wasn't clear. I was talking about after Sun-Tzu authorized the Grand Master of the Warrior Houses to restructure Warrior House organization (after the failure of Operation Golden Fortress).
Interesting, that is news to me. I guess I still have a lot of catching up to "current events" (post 3067). I've just started to scratch the surface of the Jihad.
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Interesting, that is news to me. I guess I still have a lot of catching up to "current events" (post 3067). I've just started to scratch the surface of the Jihad.
FM3085 goes into more detail on it.
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Personally I would rank them at least regular given how harsh their training is [whipit] (I doubt the Warrior Houses made it any easier) and how unlikely the Houses tolerate any slacking off.
Either way - crazy 13 year old's armed to the teeth...
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Either way - crazy 13 year old's armed to the teeth...
Can you think of anything more dangerous than crazy 13 year old's armed to the teeth with a fanatical belief in their cause?
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FM3085 goes into more detail on it.
Cool! I picked up a copy the other day, but I have not had time to read it yet. :)
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Can you think of anything more dangerous than crazy 13 year old's armed to the teeth with a fanatical belief in their cause?
Nothing.
Currently playing through the 3078 invasion of Terra. Starting to face shattered remnants of WoB Militia commands and TerraSec ad-hoc units staffed by old men and boys armed with LAWs and one shot weapons and pushed to the front.
Dangerously, bloody work
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If you are lucky there are no "orphans" from Shiloh among them. [madflame]
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If you are lucky there are no "orphans" from Shiloh among them. [madflame]
I'm still waiting for that particular thread to pop up again...
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I'm still waiting for that particular thread to pop up again...
I'm probably going to regret this; what are you referencing?
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I'm probably going to regret this; what are you referencing?
Oh...the anti-tech cult on Shiloh. They send out "orphans" to be adopted across the Inner Sphere. From the first or second Interstellar Players books. From the way it sounds, the adoptees are sleeper agents. Though for what purpose is unclear.
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Oh...the anti-tech cult on Shiloh. They send out "orphans" to be adopted across the Inner Sphere. From the first or second Interstellar Players books. From the way it sounds, the adoptees are sleeper agents. Though for what purpose is unclear.
Thanks, I'll check those references. This sounds rather interesting.
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Happy to see some Thuggee Warrior House lovin' on Camospecs!
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Happy to see some Thuggee Warrior House lovin' on Camospecs!
That reminds me, when are you gonna bust out Warrior House Shiva (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,33687.0/all.html)? I'm sure I can't be the only one who's dying to see them make their battlefield debut.
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That reminds me, when are you gonna bust out Warrior House Shiva (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,33687.0/all.html)? I'm sure I can't be the only one who's dying to see them make their battlefield debut.
I actually just updated them with a new thread. Just a few little finishing touches. Now to get in some MegaMek practice with these killers so I can at least live up to the name!
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I actually just updated them with a new thread. Just a few little finishing touches. Now to get in some MegaMek practice with these killers so I can at least live up to the name!
If you need someone to run them against, hit me via PM; I'd be more than happy to run an OpFor for them.
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Besides House Ijori have any of the other Warrior Houses been granted exceptions to the post-Golden Fortress standard?
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Besides House Ijori have any of the other Warrior Houses been granted exceptions to the post-Golden Fortress standard?
How do you mean? What kind of exceptions?
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How do you mean? What kind of exceptions?
When House Ijori reformed after the liberation of Liao, apparently they went with their traditional (pre-jihad) organization instead of the new Warrior House standard (two augmented battalions) where they field two full infantry battalions (an exception granted by Maximillian Liao in 3021 and apparently re-approved post-Liao liberation by Daoshen Liao).
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Ah, of course. I always figured they were organised thus because of their rather strange reforming on Liao.
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When House Ijori reformed after the liberation of Liao, apparently they went with their traditional (pre-jihad) organization instead of the new Warrior House standard (two augmented battalions) where they field two full infantry battalions (an exception granted by Maximillian Liao in 3021 and apparently re-approved post-Liao liberation by Daoshen Liao).
Ijori having two infantry battalions doesn't mean one or both aren't augmented......
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Ijori having two infantry battalions doesn't mean one or both aren't augmented......
Irrelevant. It still wouldn't be matching the post-Golden Fortress standard of two augmented battalions of one of twenty-four ’Mechs and forty-eight battle armor; the other twelve ’Mechs and ninety-six battle armor.
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Irrelevant. It still wouldn't be matching the post-Golden Fortress standard of two augmented battalions of one of twenty-four ’Mechs and forty-eight battle armor; the other twelve ’Mechs and ninety-six battle armor.
Field Manual 3145 places the standard strength of all Warrior Houses at 2 Augmented 'Mech Battalions and 2 Augmented Infantry Battalions. What source indicates Ijori doesn't have those as of 3145, as the Field Manual table strengths only list 'Mechs?
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Some years back (in 2004) I was suggesting to Randall that we beef up the maps we wanted for the Handbooks.
One of my suggestions was colorize them and make them fancy, and I showed him an example. Now nothing became of it then, and we used the "standard" maps, but I've always liked the map I made, and thus I present it here (only change to the 2004 one is making the planets more 'fancy' with the 'new' planet symbols (which I utterly stole from Shadowruns map when I did the "Feral Cities" sourcebook maps)).
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32562482/Liao-3025-fancy.jpg)
Øystein
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Dear gods that's sexy as hell! {>{>
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Oh...I love that map... [drool]
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Some years back (in 2004) I was suggesting to Randall that we beef up the maps we wanted for the Handbooks.
One of my suggestions was colorize them and make them fancy, and I showed him an example. Now nothing became of it then, and we used the "standard" maps, but I've always liked the map I made, and thus I present it here (only change to the 2004 one is making the planets more 'fancy' with the 'new' planet symbols (which I utterly stole from Shadowruns map when I did the "Feral Cities" sourcebook maps)).
Øystein
Beautiful map. I'd like CGL to sell star maps (in addition to what come with the Intro Box) for the various factions and eras. I'd like to add a large map of the Capellan Confederation to my man cave/geek haven cave.
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That map is very nice.
On another topic; is there a canon reference to the color scheme of the Sian Dragoons?
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Beautiful map. I'd like CGL to sell star maps (in addition to what come with the Intro Box) for the various factions and eras. I'd like to add a large map of the Capellan Confederation to my man cave/geek haven cave.
+1
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Some years back (in 2004) I was suggesting to Randall that we beef up the maps we wanted for the Handbooks.
One of my suggestions was colorize them and make them fancy, and I showed him an example. Now nothing became of it then, and we used the "standard" maps, but I've always liked the map I made, and thus I present it here (only change to the 2004 one is making the planets more 'fancy' with the 'new' planet symbols (which I utterly stole from Shadowruns map when I did the "Feral Cities" sourcebook maps)).
Øystein
Looks good but not only are they are a pain to print out but the dark background makes writing on any printouts difficult if not impossible (for campaigns).
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I'm having this printe, laminated, and framed this weekend. Thanks, Oy.
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Wait until you see my office wall at work. :)
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Happy to see some Thuggee Warrior House lovin' on Camospecs!
Wait. What. Where?
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Wait. What. Where?
Here
http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=6948 (http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=6948)
here
http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=6949 (http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=6949)
and here
http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=6950 (http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=6950)
:)
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The Preta is truly a thing of beauty.
...
Many thanks for the links, foxbat. ;)
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Hey Cappie fans... Any advice for the make up of a Warrior House Hiritsu unit post-Jihad?
I'm running some scenarios along the still forming Republic/Terran Republic/CapCon border in the years following the Jihad and I'm wondering what the old Warrior House might be fielding?
Still top of the line gear? Or a mix of salvage, etc after years of battling Blakists?
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Hey Cappie fans... Any advice for the make up of a Warrior House Hiritsu unit post-Jihad?
I'm running some scenarios along the still forming Republic/Terran Republic/CapCon border in the years following the Jihad and I'm wondering what the old Warrior House might be fielding?
Still top of the line gear? Or a mix of salvage, etc after years of battling Blakists?
Pre- or Post- Operation GOLDEN FORTRESS (Invasion of the Republic)?
Pre-Operation GOLDEN FORTRESS - House Hiritsu had taken some heavy damage in the Jihad - as of 3079, they are down to 55% strength. Some of the surviving units were undoubtedly salvage - whether Blakist, Capellan or Coalition. Their replacements were almost certainly top of the line gear as Sun-Tzu was determined to reclaim several worlds Stone's Republic had laid claim to and secured by whatever means necessary. (FRCCAF, p9)
Post-Operation GOLDEN FORTRESS (and Post-Warrior House Reorganization) - Although House Hiritsu may have salvaged some units during the initial assaults, they like most of the other Houses suffered devastating damage in the Republic counter-attack. Frequently facing overwhelming opposition, they likely had little to no chance of salvaging any equipment during their withdrawal back to Capellan space. As of 3085, they were down to 20% strength with their surviving forces battered and bruised. (FM3085, p24 and p34)
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Pre-GOLDEN FORTRESS - so when they're sitting on Pleione. Field Manual: CCAF lists them as "100 percent upgraded" and at "55 percent strength", as you say.
So that's back when they're still running at two mixed battalions.
Any thoughts on particular units?
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Pre-GOLDEN FORTRESS - so when they're sitting on Pleione. Field Manual: CCAF lists them as "100 percent upgraded" and at "55 percent strength", as you say.
So that's back when they're still running at two mixed battalions.
Not mixed. They became mixed after GOLDEN FORTRESS during the Reformation of the Warrior Houses. It has never been explained when the Warrior House infantry battalions transformed into battle armor battalions.
Any thoughts on particular units?
Player's choice. Xin Sheng designs (Yu Huang, Ti Ts'ang, Jinggau, etc) as well as Project Phoenix designs (MAD-5L, ARC-7L, PXH-4L, etc) including possibly shadow lances.
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Not mixed. They became mixed after GOLDEN FORTRESS during the Reformation of the Warrior Houses. It has never been explained when the Warrior House infantry battalions transformed into battle armor battalions.
Player's choice. Xin Sheng designs (Yu Huang, Ti Ts'ang, Jinggau, etc) as well as Project Phoenix designs (MAD-5L, ARC-7L, PXH-4L, etc) including possibly shadow lances.
Field Manual: CCAF calls them "two mixed battalions", which is interesting.
i actually assumed it meant - a mech battalion and an infantry battalion that were trained to work together as a single unit
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Field Manual: CCAF calls them "two mixed battalions", which is interesting.
i actually assumed it meant - a mech battalion and an infantry battalion that were trained to work together as a single unit
Not sure where it is supposed to say that. FM:CCAF (p58) clearly states that "The standard Warrior House is generally composed of one BattleMech battalion and a specialized foot infantry battalion." You may be referencing FM:3085 (p20): "Where once each
House consisted of a battalion of ’Mechs and a battalion of infantry, now two mixed battalions—one of twenty-four ’Mechs and forty-eight battle armor; the other twelve ’Mechs and ninety-six battle armor—is the norm." This reformation happened Post-OPERATION GOLDEN FORTRESS.
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actually, sorry - i'm quoting from Field Report: CCAF. it is the 3080 intel report written from the Republic perspective
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House Hiritsu traditionally had 1 heavy and 2 medium companies of mechs. 1 Mechanized Infantry Battalion with BA included. Minor attachments of armor and ASF are sometimes included.
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FM:3085 (p20): "Where once each House consisted of a battalion of ’Mechs and a battalion of infantry, now two mixed battalions—one of twenty-four ’Mechs and forty-eight battle armor; the other twelve ’Mechs and ninety-six battle armor—is the norm." This reformation happened Post-OPERATION GOLDEN FORTRESS.
My first successful attempt at a creating a "canon" force was a 3062 era House Hiristsu, so this caught my eye and got me thinking about what it would take to update my old House force to a post-Jihad organization like this. :)
Looking back at FM: 3085, though, there seems to be an inconsistency. In the sentence just before the one Archangel quoted above, it states that the Warrior Houses were restructured into augmented lances. My understanding of a Cappellan augmented lance would indicate this means 4 mechs and 2 squads of BA per lance. This doesn't work out with the numbers in Archangel's quote, though. Those number seem to indicate a total of nine standard lances of BattleMechs and nine standard lances of BattleArmor. If we assume the BattleArmor lances are standard four squads of 4 BA each, this would require an additional 24 BA, or would result in "borrowing" six squads of BA from the BA lances, in order to "augment" the mech lances.
So, are the numbers listed above a mistake, or is the "augmentation" of the lances an ad hoc thing done in the field and not part of the offical TOE? :-\
Also, the FM indicates at this point in time, House Hiritsu is down to 20% strength. Is there any documentation of when or even if they might have gotten back to full strength? If not, can anyone venture an educated guess?
Finally, are there any appearances of House Hiritsu in BT fiction or other reference material of this era or later that list specific mechs, battlearmor, or warriors who were part of the House?
Thanks! O0
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That's because the infantry heavy battalion uses lances of 4 battle armor squads and a pair of 'Mechs. My intention was for them to be infantry-support units like the UrbanMech, Firebee, and Gun
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There are many things I like about the Cappies, but one thing I'd like to mention is that, from an aesthetic standpoint, they've probably got my favorite looking Battle Armor. So many of them just look SO COOL.
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That's because the infantry heavy battalion uses lances of 4 battle armor squads and a pair of 'Mechs. My intention was for them to be infantry-support units like the UrbanMech, Firebee, and Gun
Cool, MadCapellan! Thanks for stopping buy to help clarify this. Just to be sure I've got this right, using the numbers from the book and your clarification, we get two battalions of two companies, each.
- Bn1 = 6 Lances x [4 BattleMechs + 2 BattleArmor]
- Bn2 = 6 Lances x [2 BattleMechs + 4 BattleArmor]
This does leave both "Battalions" short one company from the normal compliment of three companies. Was this a deliberate choice to represent understrenght units in a resource limited situation, or is the hypothetical third company made up of something else? Vees? Fighters? Squishy infantry?
Thanks for the help and clarifications! :)
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Augmented companies only consist of two lances. The new unit structure does not reflect a significant increase in unit strength. Rather, it reflects a shift towards a more tightly integrated doctrine where infantry are rarely deployed without 'Mechs and visa versa.
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Augmented companies only consist of two lances. The new unit structure does not reflect a significant increase in unit strength. Rather, it reflects a shift towards a more tightly integrated doctrine where infantry are rarely deployed without 'Mechs and visa versa.
Ah! I didn't know that. Thanks again for clarifying things for me. Now, to start thinking about what mechs and BA I might want in my updated House Hiritsu lance. O0
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Ah! I didn't know that. Thanks again for clarifying things for me. Now, to start thinking about what mechs and BA I might want in my updated House Hiritsu lance. O0
The concept is that you get two closely intergrated lances, still rousing up to 12 units.
I'm thinking something like paired heavies and mediums with two squads of Fa Shi or even some Trinity?
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I'm thinking something like paired heavies and mediums with two squads of Fa Shi or even some Trinity?
Yes, I was picturing the first Battalion to be the main combat force, made up of two "heavy" lances of mechs (mostly heavy mechs with perhaps one fast Assault and one or two heavier Mediums?) and some heavy BA. This would be the main fighting force. Based on what MadCapellan said ("infantry support" mechs), I see the lances of the second battalion's role as scouting, flanking, and perhaps ambush duty? Probably want fast and/or jump capable units here.
As far as BA choices, the Fa Shin is the only Capellan BA I'm really familiar with (I've got two platoons of them attached to my 3067 era House Hiritsu list). The Trinity does sound like a good choice for the combat lances but I'm not sure what to put in the infantry heavy lances of the second battalion yet.
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Lots of Cappie and Drac fans are waiting for the proverbial kick in the crotch. What's your bet, Hat fans, for the most likely (or plausible) catastrophe to befall the CC?
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Lots of Cappie and Drac fans are waiting for the proverbial kick in the crotch. What's your bet, Hat fans, for the most likely (or plausible) catastrophe to befall the CC?
Probably Daoshen Liao dying without naming a heir. Who would take over? His daughter, Danai Liao-Centrella?
Who has no experience or training to lead the Capellan Confederation and there is also the dark secret of her birth that would forever taint her should it come out. Ki-linn Liao? Who has been among the most vocal supporters of the invasion, whose ties to the Thuggee cult makes even her fellow Capellans nervous and whose sanity is in doubt largely due to her being descendant of Kali Liao (is she descended from the child of Kali Liao and Cameron St. Jamais whose own mother cut off his hand? *shudder*).
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Daoshen talks himself right out of allies.
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Sorry to bump this thread since it hasn't had much traffic in a while, but it didn't make much sense to start a new one.
Lots of Cappie and Drac fans are waiting for the proverbial kick in the crotch. What's your bet, Hat fans, for the most likely (or plausible) catastrophe to befall the CC?
This is sort of in line with what I wanted to bring up.
I was just reading through Wars of the Republic Era and this line bothered me: "More than that, Daoshen’s amazing performance against the former Free Worlds League invasion spread the belief in his divinity beyond his own mind. Instead of being humbled, which might have made him a better leader, his delusion increased and guaranteed a poor future for the Confederation."
Is it just me or have we (so far) not seen any real indications of this being true? (The poor future for the Confederation part, not his delusions). Under his rule, the Confederation has so far finally recovered almost all of their planets lost to the Republic and captured tons of worlds from the Federated Suns that haven't been considered Capellan at all / since before the 1st/2nd Succession Wars.
I know there were quite a few years of his rule before the collapse of the HPG circuit but am I completely forgetting other events to suggest the Capellans have been suffering under his rule?
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It depends upon what the writer of that section knew when he/she wrote it. The author could have been referencing the Capellan Crusades or the rule of Daoshen's grandmother (Romano Liao) or great-grandfather (Maximillian Liao). And just because a country is militarily successful doesn't mean they are prospering, after all wars are expensive. It took years for the FedSuns to recover from the 4SW.
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Alternatively - it could be referencing a return to the police state years of Mad Bad Romano - his dilutions of godhood could spell a poor future for the people of the confederation in terms of a restriction on civil liberties, etc
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Aren't those Books written from the perspective of those who favor the Republic anyways thus their Bias is on full display and run contrary to what is the actual? I love the Historicals but I would prefer if they were written from someone living in a Real Neutral State- say like the Rim Collection
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It depends upon what the writer of that section knew when he/she wrote it. The author could have been referencing the Capellan Crusades or the rule of Daoshen's grandmother (Romano Liao) or great-grandfather (Maximillian Liao). And just because a country is militarily successful doesn't mean they are prospering, after all wars are expensive. It took years for the FedSuns to recover from the 4SW.
They were specifically referencing his rule and I would still attribute the Capellan Crusades to Sun-Tzu (of course Sunny dies during the conflict and I haven't finished reading the Crusades entry, so maybe things go off the wire for Daoshen after that) and I doubt the line was trying to say that Daoshen being a bad ruler was responsible for his grandmother being a bad ruler.
I guess there's a lot we can infer from the passage I posted but at least from the couple responses so far, it doesn't sound like we have any clear examples of his poor ruling. I only say that because from what I've read the Capellans are doing well militarily, economically, and from what I remember reading Daoshen was always very popular with his subjects, which at least suggests he isn't purging them left and right.
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They were specifically referencing his rule and I would still attribute the Capellan Crusades to Sun-Tzu (of course Sunny dies during the conflict and I haven't finished reading the Crusades entry, so maybe things go off the wire for Daoshen after that)
You need to read the Personalities sections on Sun-Tzu and Daoshen Liao. Even Sun-Tzu had deep reservations over his son taking over and made no attempt to hide them. The Capellan Crusades was clearly Daoshen's operation, Sun-Tzu played only a passive role in the planning and execution of the offensive. It was Daoshen's role in planning the operation that led his mother to recall the Magistracy forces from the Confederation and denying her son MAF support as she feared he would squander her forces in his offensive.
and I doubt the line was trying to say that Daoshen being a bad ruler was responsible for his grandmother being a bad ruler.
Nor did I say (or imply) that he was. With Daoshen's mental instability and cruel disposition, the author could have been foreseeing a return to Romano's time where paranoia ran rampant. A return to the bad times as it were.
I guess there's a lot we can infer from the passage I posted but at least from the couple responses so far, it doesn't sound like we have any clear examples of his poor ruling. I only say that because from what I've read the Capellans are doing well militarily, economically, and from what I remember reading Daoshen was always very popular with his subjects, which at least suggests he isn't purging them left and right.
You definitely didn't read the section on Daoshen Liao (p75). I suggest you do that before continuing your line of thought. It should change your impression of Daoshen as there are definite reminders of Romano Liao. Romano saved the Confederation and was "popular" with her subjects (with a healthy dose of Maskirovka to ensure it).
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You definitely didn't read the section on Daoshen Liao (p75). I suggest you do that before continuing your line of thought. It should change your impression of Daoshen as there are definite reminders of Romano Liao. Romano saved the Confederation and was "popular" with her subjects (with a healthy dose of Maskirovka to ensure it).
Daoshen thinks he is a living god. Most people wouldn't put that on their resume. Daoshen would put it under the description of his responsibilities as Chancellor of the Capellan Confederation. The CCAF is doing well for now, and may even be the super power in the next decade. But, we wouldn't be reminded more than once about Daoshen's disposition if it didn't matter.
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Daoshen thinks he is a living god. Most people wouldn't put that on their resume. Daoshen would put it under the description of his responsibilities as Chancellor of the Capellan Confederation. The CCAF is doing well for now, and may even be the super power in the next decade. But, we wouldn't be reminded more than once about Daoshen's disposition if it didn't matter.
How DARE you even consider comparing the Great, All-Powerful Divine blah blah (an hour later) Chancellor Daoshen Liao with the common folk? What blasphemy! >:D
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Now this brings up food for thought that is almost SURE to get me banned: Is the Capellan Confederation the only major faction where the ruler could get away with declaring themselves a god? (Kerensky and Blake notwithstanding).
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Now this brings up food for thought that is almost SURE to get me banned: Is the Capellan Confederation the only major faction where the ruler could get away with declaring themselves a god? (Kerensky and Blake notwithstanding).
Nah...Hanse beat us to it... ( ;) )
More seriously though...I don't think Daoshen really needed to. Wasn't there a movement back in the Jihad that tried to elevate Sun Tzu to divinity?
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Now this brings up food for thought that is almost SURE to get me banned: Is the Capellan Confederation the only major faction where the ruler could get away with declaring themselves a god? (Kerensky and Blake notwithstanding).
The relationship between the Kurita dynasty and The Dragon, the quasi mystical incarnation of the Draconis Combine seems to run a similar course. However, the Coordinator is defined by his lack of responsibility in certain matters, as well. The Chancellors of the Capellan Confederation have had a stronger hand in the affairs of the state. If a Coordinator were to think of themselves as a god they would be a distant one in comparison.
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Recent Cappie-Convert here. Hello :)
I've had horrible luck picking a faction I could really live with. They keep getting gobbled up, lol. So I thought to myself: Why don't I go with a Great House? So I eliminated a couple really fast.
Steiner, although I love the German language and culture, were not my cup of tea. I still can't get over the whole Katrina ruining everything, thing. NEXT!
Davion seemed like an obvious choice for me. I always liked them. However, they were almost TOO obvious. Too goodguyish. But when you looked more closely at them, you could see all sorts of problems.
Marik, just really never been a fan. Lots of literature on them. None of it was ever interesting to me unless you count the infantry introduction in the one rulebook. Can't remember which one it was. Anyway, they weren't interesting because they were Marik troops. They were interesting because they were infantry taking on an Axeman. It was a Steiner Axeman, so good one them. NEXT!
Kurita, I really almost went with these guys. Some of my favorite mechs are Kuritan. Panthers, Dragons, I'm happy. But the whole Japanese culture, Ninjas in Space seems kind of cliche. Plus, I really never could forgive them for being total douchebags to Rasalhague.
Liao, by the time I got to these guys I was pretty depressed. I never thought I would like them. In any literature, they were sort of depicted as evil and nuts. But the more I learned about them, the more I liked them. I especially like how citizenship is earned, and that makes them very loyal. I like how they are underdogs, who keep plugging away. This is my new home ( when I'm not trying to be thenext Primus of Comstar, that is ).
Any good books out there for a Liao fan?
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Recent Cappie-Convert here. Hello :)
I've had horrible luck picking a faction I could really live with. They keep getting gobbled up, lol. So I thought to myself: Why don't I go with a Great House? So I eliminated a couple really fast.
Steiner, although I love the German language and culture, were not my cup of tea. I still can't get over the whole Katrina ruining everything, thing. NEXT!
Davion seemed like an obvious choice for me. I always liked them. However, they were almost TOO obvious. Too goodguyish. But when you looked more closely at them, you could see all sorts of problems.
Marik, just really never been a fan. Lots of literature on them. None of it was ever interesting to me unless you count the infantry introduction in the one rulebook. Can't remember which one it was. Anyway, they weren't interesting because they were Marik troops. They were interesting because they were infantry taking on an Axeman. It was a Steiner Axeman, so good one them. NEXT!
Kurita, I really almost went with these guys. Some of my favorite mechs are Kuritan. Panthers, Dragons, I'm happy. But the whole Japanese culture, Ninjas in Space seems kind of cliche. Plus, I really never could forgive them for being total douchebags to Rasalhague.
Liao, by the time I got to these guys I was pretty depressed. I never thought I would like them. In any literature, they were sort of depicted as evil and nuts. But the more I learned about them, the more I liked them. I especially like how citizenship is earned, and that makes them very loyal. I like how they are underdogs, who keep plugging away. This is my new home ( when I'm not trying to be thenext Primus of Comstar, that is ).
Any good books out there for a Liao fan?
Welcome home Citizen. O0
For literature...hm that's a tough one. There's the old House Liao sourcebook (think it's still on BattleCorps), there's the House Liao Handbook (which is really good) and there are a few novels. The best of which is the Binding Force and the Capellan Solution Duology (Threads of Ambition, The Killing Fields). Those are about the only 3 Liao-centric novels I can think of.
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Field Manual: House Liao is in my top three of the old Field Manual Series (along with Kurita and Comstar).
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Field Manual: House Liao is in my top three of the old Field Manual Series (along with Kurita and Comstar).
Doh! Forgot about that one...pardon me while I go book my "vacation" on Brazen Heart...
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some of those sound like free downloads I got, but haven't read yet. They are on my finicky laptop at the moment.
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I'm looking at moving some Cappellan BattleArmor around in 3145. Can anyone recommend an APC or other transport that has a mini?
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Well, they may not be in production anymore, but in the 3060's the Cappies were using Blizzards and Maultiers to transport their BA. They both have minis and they could still be around.
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Well, they may not be in production anymore, but in the 3060's the Cappies were using Blizzards and Maultiers to transport their BA. They both have minis and they could still be around.
The Maultier (Fusion) looks really good and I could kitbash one without much fuss. I know nothing of its background. Was it ever put into production?
The Blizzard certainly has its uses; cheap (in Alpha Strike) and straight forward even if it has an odd amount of infantry it carries. Again I don't know if it's in production but it has a mini and as such has my attention.
Thank you, I'll have to ponder this further.
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It's a shame you're limited by available minis, because I've gotten a ton of use out of the R10 for my 3145-era Warrior House.
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It's a shame you're limited by available minis, because I've gotten a ton of use out of the R10 for my 3145-era Warrior House.
One of the downsides to playing WYSIWYG Alpha Strike. It's entirely self inflicted but it's how I like to play. There's a lot of nice vehicles in the Dark Age but I don't know how soon we'll see minis of them.
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Admittedly, the Maultier (BA) and (Fusion) show up in 3070 when CapCon and Taurian relations aren't that great, so they might not be able to get any (The BA variant is listed as Taurian only during the Jihad, and TBA for anything past that), but you never know.
The Blizzard they should have more than enough of just laying around I'd think to justify it. Sure, you've got too much space, but better safe than sorry :) The Cavalry (Infantry) is another option as well. Its listed on the "IS General" list for both the Jihad and post Jihad. And there's a model for it. There's also the tried and true Maxim, which the CapCon has access to via the Inner Sphere General list.
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Aye, I have found the Maxim to very useful in many different situations.
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Anyone been following Ben's TRO3150 teasers on twitter?
Lot's of intriguing things like this:-
Sao-wei Nilyavich worked beside DCMS counterparts during part of the recent Capellan-Combine joint invasion of Republic space
and this:-
When the Julian Davion’s forces attacked, few defenders offered true resistance. Not so for Wu’s company of Zahns.
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Sooo....how is everyone? Comrades? [crickets]
Now that TRO: 3150 is finally out and we are getting some tidbits of what might lay store for us. What is everyone's thoughts on the current and near future situation of the Confederation? Should we be bracing ourselves for the other shoe to drop?
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New Cappie here, currently have the intro mechs and a few random metal models. Thinking about either picking up alpha strike packs or the Liao themed packs from ironwind, though not sure which direction to go as of right now. Love the cappies but it seems that their leaders tend to be kinda screwy.
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New Cappie here, currently have the intro mechs and a few random metal models. Thinking about either picking up alpha strike packs or the Liao themed packs from ironwind, though not sure which direction to go as of right now. Love the cappies but it seems that their leaders tend to be kinda screwy.
Hi! And welcome to the forums!
Hm, that's a tough one. The plastics are very nice quality, but then again metal is metal. I'd say for now, just go with cost. You can get two of the AS lance sets for the price of one of the metal packs.
Do you have Handbook: House Liao yet? I'd really suggest getting that one. It's a good read.
They have had a few. Though honestly, I think it's a trait of the Liaos that gets over exaggerated.
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Now that TRO: 3150 is finally out and we are getting some tidbits of what might lay store for us. What is everyone's thoughts on the current and near future situation of the Confederation? Should we be bracing ourselves for the other shoe to drop?
What could happen? At present the CCAF are the strongest IS military and both, the Suns and the Republic, should be happy if they survive without loosing too much.
I don't think a protacted, full scale conflict between the CC and DC is likely. There might be some battles, but in the end I guess both will remember to focus on their common enemy.
If a threat is serious, I'd say it is the Wolves if they have dealt with the Falcons. (The LCAF do not really matter much). The Wolves are easily capable of hammering even a force as potent as the CCAF. But does the CC have any real intrest in Terra to incite conflict with the Wolves?
Overall I think the CC will be fine. Maybe some regiments go down, maybe some worlds are lost, but I don't see the CC loosing their status as one of the top powers.
Unless, of course, some massive idiocy from Daoshen's part takes place and a mary-sue character intending to destroy the CC exploits it. (This is what happened to the LC).
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Hi! And welcome to the forums!
Hm, that's a tough one. The plastics are very nice quality, but then again metal is metal. I'd say for now, just go with cost. You can get two of the AS lance sets for the price of one of the metal packs.
Do you have Handbook: House Liao yet? I'd really suggest getting that one. It's a good read.
They have had a few. Though honestly, I think it's a trait of the Liaos that gets over exaggerated.
Thanks! Just ordered a companies-worth of the alpha strike mechs. Didn't realize until I looked up prices you could get 12 plastics with shipping for the price of one metal plus the bases and shipping. Will have a Cyclops, Cataphract, Raven, Catapult, Charger, Awesome, Vindicator, Firestarter, Centurion, Clint, Jenner, and Wolfhound in service to the Confederation. I will be getting that handbook when I can, sounds like it will be a great read.
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R.I.P. Ki-linn Liao. :'(
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Welcome, Levi!
Late to the conversation, but I would have went the heavy metal lance and two of the plastic lance boxes. But that's me. :)
Are you planning on Classic BT, Alpha Strike, everything? :D
Not sure if you know about CamoSpecs, but check out this part of the gallery for painting ideas. Have fun!
http://camospecs.com/Faction.asp?ID=16 (http://camospecs.com/Faction.asp?ID=16)
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Liao, by the time I got to these guys I was pretty depressed. I never thought I would like them. In any literature, they were sort of depicted as evil and nuts. But the more I learned about them, the more I liked them. I especially like how citizenship is earned, and that makes them very loyal. I like how they are underdogs, who keep plugging away. This is my new home ( when I'm not trying to be thenext Primus of Comstar, that is ).
I never worried too much about the morality or ethics of the faction I chose to play. Its not like I'm esposing a political viewpoint if I happen to play Germans or Russians in a WWII game, so I see this as much the same. I picked the Cappies as one of my factions just becuase they are so colorful. Mad rulers, secret police, warrior societies, and an interesing culture. I'm not sure I would want to live there, but its a fun place to play. ^-^
Any good books out there for a Liao fan?
The book Binding Force, by Loren L. Coleman, was what first got me into the Capellan Confederation. It focuses on the Warrior House Hiritsu and one of their 'mech pilots. The whole idea of a Warrior House and the Capellan background presented in the book just facinated me. IIRC there was at least one sequel to Binding Force, too.
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I beg a question of the Strategios....
My 3080s era mercs are just about to commence an objective raid into the Confederation.
They're tasked with smashing the data server and computer core of a rival firm.
While they're cleared to shoot put he corporate goons, the employer doesn't want to spark a war and has advised them to stay clear of the on world garrison - the 5th Capellan Defence Force.
I'm planning on dropping a patrol lance into their way as a bit of a surprise.
Any recommendations for a nice mid-weight CCAF lance in 3085?
I was just thinking the medium lance from the Cappie dossier - Snake, Men Shen, Sling and Sha Yu.
But any recommendations?
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Sling
You mean the Duan Gung? I'm pretty sure the Sling proper has been extinct for centuries.......
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You mean the Duan Gung? I'm pretty sure the Sling proper has been extinct for centuries.......
True that. Pretty much the same mech though
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https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qlUqIEs7DMLXG1rUPRyeE96_tcFdpflU4FF3_hDzaJY/edit
So here's a list I'm putting together of mechs produced by the CCAF in 3145, as well as what stockpiles they're likely to have from the 3080s, for a megamek campaign. This isn't including things like the Gambit and Sea Fox mechs that are sold openly to everyone. There any changes you guys would make?
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Going by sarna.net, it seems to say the Yu Huang production line was destroyed in 3068 and never rebuilt. I am under the impression all the other variants are refits rather than new production.
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FM3145 says that Yu Huang production was restored elsewhere in the Confederation
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Oh I found it now. Ceres Metal bought out Shengli Arms and resumed production on Capella. I stand corrected.
As for their stockpiles, I assume it would be a fraction of their pre-disarmament production. It says in Era Report 3145 that Daoshen outdid the other Houses in concealing production by a factor of at least 3 in order to stockpile for his Hidden Lion units.
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Are there any canopian designs the capellans don't have much access to? I'm wondering how to make their table not just Diet Capellan.
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Are there any canopian designs the capellans don't have much access to? I'm wondering how to make their table not just Diet Capellan.
It's more a matter of frequency and variant than of general availability. There are a number of native Canopian designs in TRO: 3145 Capellan Confederation that would be far more common in the MAF than CCAF.
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In general, the MAF is going to have less Clantech then the CCAF. Not sure if that helps, true...
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Hi, been away for a while, couple of quick questions if I may:-
1 - do all regiments in the CCAF use the augmented lance structure post jihad? And if so is it across all units in a regiment or 1 or 2 battalions in 3?
2 - Which mechs/vehicles use plasma rifles?
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Hi, been away for a while, couple of quick questions if I may:-
1 - do all regiments in the CCAF use the augmented lance structure post jihad? And if so is it across all units in a regiment or 1 or 2 battalions in 3?
At least one battalion in each Capellan BattleMech regiment has been restructured into four two-lance companies with an independent command lance. Each lance consists of four ’Mechs and two conventional combat vehicles.
2 - Which mechs/vehicles use plasma rifles?
There's a shitload. So many it would take me the better part of an hour to put a list together. If you have MegaMek, just open up the Advanced Search function and search for units that have plasma rifles, and that will give you the comprehensive list (well, along with some FedSuns and Combine designs, but the vast majority are Capellan).
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Kojak's pretty spot-on. After you find a plasma rifle-toting mech (of which there are many) you can cross-reference its availability on the MUL. If you have PDFs of the unabridged record sheets, you can easily search for plasma weapons.
And I think it's implied that Warrior Houses only use BA augmented lances rather than vehicles.
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Cheers guys, didn't know mega mek could do that.
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Merry Christmas! May you get a 'Mech under your tree! 8)
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Greetings, enlightened ones! :)
Looking for Capellan-oriented (pun not intended) advice for one of my mini combined-arms battalion builds. Would appreciate any advice relating to:
1) Capellan units which did something notable in the Clan Invasion period. Doesn't have to be against the Clans by any means.
2) Particularly Capellan flavoured 'Mechs or vees which came into their own in the Clan Invasion period
3) Any sort of unit that might logically deploy a lance of Urbanmechs
I've done a 4th War Capellan unit (Devon's Armoured Infantry) laden with Cataphracts & Vindicators and Crusader-Ls; I've done a Jihad-era unit (4th Tau Ceti Rangers) with Yu Huangs, Sha Yus, Men Shen and Vindicators. I want to do an Invasion-era companion unit, without repeating the same minis.
All advice cheerfully welcomed!
W.
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It's hard to go wrong with the Big Mac.
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True, but it's a bit close to the 4th TC. Still, worth remembering.
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Kingston's Legionnaires?
Went on Serpent and had a reputation for using combined arms well.
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Warrior House Dai Da Chi, the Red Lancers, Harloc Raiders joined the 1st McCarron in Operarion BULLDOG.
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How about Warrior House Ijori? They were the very first Capellan unit to face the Clans, fighting the Viper Fusiliers on Goat Path in 3058. For minis, you could do Huron Warriors, Thunders, Snakes and Emperors, maybe with some Regulators backing them up.
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Ijori was also really infantry-heavy, if that's an appealing direction. Probably coming up short on battle armor given the time-frame. Lu-Sann was one of the Warrior Houses that was active in the Chaos March during and after Guerrero. Maybe take a look at the 1st CDF. Not a prestigious command, failed to take Sarna during Guerrero, and has some procurement issues. Might be a good fit for an Urbanmech infestation.
I'll second Kojak's mech recommendations but you can also expect to see a great deal of SW-era mechs, TRO3050 refits like the Clint, and recent FWL production.
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House Imarra's leader assisted in the assassination of Romano Liao which led to Sun-Tzu's early rise to power. ;) In addition, during Operation Guerrero, they took on the much larger 3rd Donegal Guards RCT on Styk and dealt heavy losses to them. Both units were withdrawn before a climactic battle could be fought. As a result of the 3rd's heavily criticized (and reviled, at least within the 3rd,) CO was subsequently "promoted" from his field command.
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A local game store is liquidating their BattleTech stuff. I suppose it's kind of sad to see yet another store quit on the game, but in the short term I was able to pick up some minis I never had a reason to buy before. A markdown of 50% off will make my buy Liao stuff!
Having picked up both Liao mech packs and an assortment of Liao-y single blisters, my favorite discovery was the Ebony. I always Meh'd the Cappie stuff in the recent TROs, so I was puzzled as to why it came with a sword. I was pretty sure I remembered that it didn't have one in the artwork.
Being an Alpha Strike player, I have to say that the Ebony MEB-13 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6943/ebony-meb-13) variant is a thing of pure beauty. I'm still kind of "meh" on its appearance, but the way I've fallen in love with Rokurokubis over in the Kurita side of the collection has caused me to see this new guy as an absolute gem.
18" is perfect... It's priced with a +3TMM but in AS it's as easy as it always should have been to manage overheat. You can count on riding that 1 point of OV, and thus 20" of recalculated movement and its resulting +4 TMM. Sure, the Rokurokubi has the armor line of a heavy mech, but +4TMM is awful nice to have, too. Plus it's got TSM to go along with its sword, so double score! Compare the PVs and make it a trifecta for the Ebony.
I'm looking forward to playing with my new company :) Anyone know of a single color scheme that could simultaneously be either a CCAF or a MAF unit?
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Hmm... A quick look through FM:P shows both the 2nd Raventhir Cuirassiers and the 2nd Canopian Light Horse using generic camo, which many CCAF regiments use. The green and black of the 2nd Magistracy Highlanders could probably be passed off as House Hiritsu.
My condolences on your local store's inventory.
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Looking like Kingston's Rangers, in their jungle camo - medium green base, drybrushed darker green swabs, bring up the edges with medium green, then a wash.
Thanks all!
W.
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I like the Rangers. If you go late invasion era you can drop in a bit of Clan tech. Maybe an "old guard lance" of omnis amid the CapCon stuff that represents an elite core of veterans who survived Huntress.
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I recently played a game of Alpha Strike with my new Cappie company. It started well enough as a sniping game and with half my force having STL I accumulated a lead on kills. My opponent wised up and changed tactics to bum rush me. I moved my heavy hitters to capitalize on his mechs coming out into the open, and carnage ensued. Unfortunately I lost more than he did in close combat... sufficiently so that I lost my early lead and we ended up with a draw.
I feel like I didn't use my stealth and mobility as well as I could have, but all in all still fun. I did notice that Liao mechs do come packed wth specials, and that's nice... but you have to be mindful of what you're paying for in PV. My force lacked in raw firepower compared to my opposition....
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What sort of terrain were you fighting in?
My gut feel about Capellan stealth units is that they're better off in reasonably open terrain, where they can use their mobility to control the range to keep getting that stealth benefit. While they have some good melee designs, they tend to be at the lighter end of the spectrum - and not sure if the Ti Tsang benefits or loses out in conversion to AS. While it's a potentially terrifying unit in BT with it's speed to add to the chopper, it doesn't have that "threat of insta-kill" aura on the other side.
The dream, of course, is to swamp the enemy with thunder rounds, trapping them in a firesack where you can pour fire into them from cover. This, though, requires positively Lyran levels of competency on behalf of the opponent :(
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We fought on a table representing some rural farm. We were thinking about making the grain silos scenario objectives, but I kind of preferred to have a plain straight-up fight since I was using a force with a playstyle I wasn't familiar with. The edges had ample woods, hills, and rough terrain along with some farmhouses and barns. The center of the table was Planted Fields terrain (which we never used before) in numerous, long rows. With no movement penalties and light to-hit penalties, they basically made the center the next best thing to open and clear.
I put my Wasp on point as an expendable pawn. Contrary to my expectation, the little guy survived the battle raging around him. Between Stealth armor and its dinky damage threat, my opponent (probably rightly) decided it was just too much effort to put down for too little gain. Its surviving is probably my favorite part of what happened. My Ebony missing 4 rolls to hit on backstabs with its sword was hands down my least favorite part. That guy should have had 2 lil light mech kills :( The big guys all faired pretty poorly as I committed them to close-quarters combat amid the rows of mega-corn (planted fields are 2" tall!) and they were all wiped out (again except the plucky Wasp!) The only big guy who didn't get his butt kicked was a Tian-Zong who just lurked back on a hilltop and sniped away. Which is what he's for, after all!
EDIT: Of course, I shouldn't have expected to do any better than a draw since I took to the field with unpainted, naked metal minis. The dice never roll well for you when you do that.
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How would you build a Capellan battalion, circa 3028?
I've got a lot of plastic minis from the box set and some alpha strike lance packs, and looking to expand. I've come up with this idea for a battalion that gives a good variety of play experiences. Anything you might add or subtract?
A company, 1st lance: HGN-733, CP-10-Z, VTR-9B, ON1-K
2nd lance: TDR-5S, MAD-3L, CTF-1X, CPLT-C1
3rd lance: GHR-5H VND-1R, VND-1R, SHD-2H
B company, 1st lance: STK-3F, ARC-2R, CRD-3L, WHM-6L
2nd lance: TBT-5N, GRF-1N, QKD-4G, CPTL-C1
3rd lance: VND-1R, VND-1R, CLNT-2-3T, WVE-6N
C company, 1st lance: VL-5T, PXH-1, CGR-1L, RVN-1X
2nd lance: CDA-3C, LCT-1V, LCT-1E, SDR-5V
3rd lance: FS9-H, WSP-1A, WSP-1L, STG-3G
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*blows off the dust*
So, fellow Capellan fans, I recently noticed a substantial lack of Ti Ts'angs in my Warrior House (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=35936.0), and that led me to look at the Ti Ts'ang DDC a second time; I'd dismissed it as gimmick-y due to the lance when I'd first seen it, but now I'm giving it real consideration, mostly because I didn't know that the lance both does the same damage as the old hatchet and works with TSM to boot. Do any of you have any experience with this 'Mech? What are your thoughts?
Sub-question: if you had an augmented lance with four DDCs, what would you augment them with?
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*blows off the dust*
So, fellow Capellan fans, I recently noticed a substantial lack of Ti T'sangs in my Warrior House (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=35936.0), and that led me to look at the Ti T'sang DDC a second time; I'd dismissed it as gimmick-y due to the lance when I'd first seen it, but now I'm giving it real consideration, mostly because I didn't know that the lance both does the same damage as the old hatchet and works with TSM to boot. Do any of you have any experience with this 'Mech? What are your thoughts?
Sub-question: if you had an augmented lance with four DDCs, what would you augment them with?
Normally I would say Regular II (Stealth) for their accurate long-range support, but for a Warrior House which would use battle armor I would probably deploy Amazon battle armor preferably with the MRR but the support PPC config also works.
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My Warrior House uses tanks, so that's a totally viable option in this case.
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While I'm not an exhaustive Cappie Expert, a Cappie Unit without tanks seems like hardly a Cappie Unit at all.
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Traditionally, Warrior Houses are combined mech and infantry formations. Combat vehicles are traditionally used sparingly or in a supporting function.
But if this is non-canon, then add a pair of Arrow IV Assault Vehicles armed with Thunder Active munitions to create your charging lanes.
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I second the suggestion of Regulators. I favor the standard Gauss, though.
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This thread has reminded me that I want to paint up a mech company from House Daidachi.
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Dumb question, but is there a canon colour scheme for Cochrane's Goliaths?
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I don't have access to my Capellan Field Manual and I need to know how the Capellans organize their Aerospace forces. Can any of you Capellans help me out>
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DeadBorder: Depends what era. If you're talking the rebuilt 5th Capellan Chargers, unveiled as a Hidden Lion unit, then FM:3145 tells us:
"The brigade insignia was a green cross over a wheel. They used a khaki paint scheme."
Unsure if there's an individual scheme for each regiment, however.
If you're talking the original, then I don't know
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I don't have access to my Capellan Field Manual and I need to know how the Capellans organize their Aerospace forces. Can any of you Capellans help me out>
Their lances are 2-3 fighters.
Squadron is 2-3 lances (6 fighters) (Either 2 lances of 3 fighters, or 3 lances of 2 fighters)
Flight is 2 squadrons (12 fighters)
Wing is 3 flights + command elements (39 fighters)
Reinforced Wing is 4 flights + command elements (51 fighters)
Fleet Regiment is 3 wings + 2 command elements (123 fighters)
Command Elements are 3 fighters, the commander plus 2 wingmen to keep him safe. One thing to keep in mind is that the command elements are still present in each Wing in the Fleet Regiment, so that actually has 5 command elements in it (1 for each Wing, and then 2 for the Regiment overall).
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Thanks for the info.
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Sub-question: if you had an augmented lance with four DDCs, what would you augment them with?
Aaaand...I just figured it out.
TSEMP Tamerlanes.
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I plan to build and paint a force for the 2nd St. Ives Lancers around 3067, just before the start of the Jihad. I would appreciate a review of the forces I have selected to make sure they appear reasonable. (I also have no idea how these would play either so I'm open to improvements there too.)
Command Lance: Yu Huang Y-H9G, Helios HEL-3D, Men Shen MS1-O, Gallowglas GAL-1GLS
1st Company (PV: 373)
Fire Lance: Dervish DV-6M, Catapult CPLT-C1, Griffin GRF-3M, Shadow Hawk SHD-5M
Striker Lance: Raven RVN-3L, Starslayer STY-3C, Ti Ts'ang TSG-9H, Centurion CN9-D
Battle Lance: Victor VTR-9B, Vindicator VND-3L, Quickdraw QKD-5M, Enforcer ENF-4R
2nd Company (PV: 374)
Assault Lance: Cestus CTS-6Y, Lao Hu LHU-2B, Emperor EMP-6A, Pillager PLG-3Z
Pursuit Lance: Snake SNK-1V, Clint CLNT-2-3U, Firestarter FS9-O, Cossack C-SK1
Fire Lance: Cataphract CTF-3L, Sha Yu SYU-2B, Vindicator VND-3L, Blackjack BJ-2
3rd Company (PV: 372)
Augmented Striker Lance: Phoenix Hawk PXH-3M, Huron Warrior HUR-W0-R4L, Jinggau JN-G8A, Wraith TR1, 2 Regulator hover tanks
Augmented Battle Lance: Thunder THR-1L, BattleMaster BLR-3M, Guillotine GLT-5M, Vindicator VND-3L, 2 Manticore heavy tanks
I have avoided 'Mechs that enter production after 3065 since I believe other formations would receive them first.
I started out using the formation building rules in Alpha Strike Companion and Campaign Operations but it's possible I've broken the rules moving units around.
If there's a better place to ask this, please let me know.
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I figure constructing a Liao force is kinda easy. A lot of clear choices.
I do find Xiwo Xerase's choice of the Dervish and Enforcer slightly odd... but then, we're talking about St. Ives Lancers who do use some Davion-equipment.
Interesting mix of older and newer equipment. Plenty of opportunities to upgrade if that unit is ever used in a campaign. Like the RVN-3L for RVN-4L (Stealth Armor!).
IMO the Raven is more ideally suited for the Command Lance as a recon unit. Indeed, i find lack of a scout lance slightly odd but that's just me. Moving it to the Pursuit Lance is another option.
Speaking of units, how does my House Hiritsu unit sound?
A combined arms battalion, consisting of a 'Mech Company with Command Lance, two platoons of Battle Armor, an armor support lance plus 2-3 companies of conventional infantry.
Preliminary TO&E, i still need to make sure the lances are actually rules-compatible, and they're not final anyway.
'Mech Company:
Command Lance:
Cataphract CTF-3L
Raven RVN-4L
Pillager PLG-4Z
Yu Huang Y-H9G
Heavy Cavalry Lance:
Vindicator VND-4L
Lao Hu LHU-2B
Ti Ts'ang TSG-9H
Thunder THR-1L
Light Pursuit/Striker Lance
Cossack C-SK1
Sha Yu SYU-2B
Duan Gung D9-G9
Anubis ABS-3L
Medium Support Lance:
Wraith TR-1
Vindicator VND-4L
Huron Warrior HUR-WO-R4L
Men Shen MS1-O
Armor Support Lance:
4xLRM Carrier (canonically, the House Hiritsu has a lance of Heavy LRM Carriers, but i will make do with standard ones due to miniature-budget reasons)
Infantry:
Two Platoons of Fa Shih Battle Armor
2-3 Companies of other Conventional Infantry
Transport Assets:
4xBlizzard Hover Transport (Standard) (more would be better but again, budget)
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I do find Xiwo Xerase's choice of the Dervish and Enforcer slightly odd... but then, we're talking about St. Ives Lancers who do use some Davion-equipment.
Interesting mix of older and newer equipment. Plenty of opportunities to upgrade if that unit is ever used in a campaign. Like the RVN-3L for RVN-4L (Stealth Armor!).
IMO the Raven is more ideally suited for the Command Lance as a recon unit. Indeed, i find lack of a scout lance slightly odd but that's just me. Moving it to the Pursuit Lance is another option.
Thank you for your feedback. I've changed things around since then (and might keep changing them around until paint is applied). For one thing, I've decided to paint a company of three different units (currently 2nd St. Ives Lancers, Harloc Raiders, and House Ma-Tsu Kai) instead of a single battalion. (I can always go back and add more later.)
The Raven's lance was changed into a pursuit lance (see below).
The St. Ives Lancers company keeps the Dervish but traded the Enforcer for a Centurion CN9-D. They're both in the Civil War availability for the St. Ives Compact (well, the Dervish DV-6M is Inner Sphere general) and might add a little more flavor to the unit. The original mix was also meant to follow the technology summary from Field Manual: Updates (85% Star League) but I decided that wasn't as important.
The current formations are:
House Ma-Tsu Kai (PV 385)
Battle Lance: Lao Hu LHU-2B, Vindicator VND-3L, Ti Ts'ang TSG-9H, Yu Huang Y-H9G
Fire Lance: Catapult CPLT-C1, Griffin GRF-3M, Ostroc OSR-4L, Shadow Hawk SHD-7M
Pursuit Lance: Raven RVN-3L, Sha Yu SYU-2B, Wasp WSP-3L, Wraith TR1
2nd St. Ives Lancers (PV 389)
Assault Lance: Emperor EMP-6A, Guillotine GLT-5M, Helios HEL-3D, Pillager PLG-3Z
Fire Lance: Cataphract CTF-3L, Dervish DV-6M, Huron Warrior HUR-WO-R4L, Vindicator VND-3L
Pursuit Lance: Centurion CN9-D, Cicada CDA-3G, Clint CLNT-2-3U, Phoenix Hawk PXH-3M
Harloc Raiders (PV 372)
Battle Augmented Lance: 2 Manticore heavy tanks, 2 Po heavy tanks, Vindicator VND-4L, Victor VTR-10L
Striker Augmented Lance: Jinggau JN-G8A, Men Shen MS1-O, Quickdraw QKD-5M, Thunder THR-1L, 2 Regulator hover tanks
Speaking of units, how does my House Hiritsu unit sound?
A combined arms battalion, consisting of a 'Mech Company with Command Lance, two platoons of Battle Armor, an armor support lance plus 2-3 companies of conventional infantry.
Your choices look fine to me. I would personally use a Wasp WSP-3L in place of the Cossack but that's personal preference. (In my mind, I see the Cossack falling out of favor with the CCAF but it's on the Early Republic availability list so maybe I'm wrong.)
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Don't have a Wasp mini, nor planning to get one. Will wait for classics in plastic.
Besides, i've never been a Wasp fan. The Stinger always looked cooler. :)
Of course, my plans went completely new. Figured i want to do two MW4 companies (counted 26 IS 'Mechs from the MW4 plus expansions), so my Raven moved there. And then i got an idea that i want a Marik company too, and i'm currently unsure about the fate of my Wraith, as it might end up with Mariks. As might my Cataphract...
In retrospect, the Pillager ended up being a problematic choice. Leaving it out of my Hiritsu forces, i could have minimum movement of 4/6/4 (the Yu Huang), and everything else moving a bit faster. But i have no idea where else i might put the Pillager, i figured i won't be making a Star League unit anytime soon (need classics for that) and most certainly not making a Davion force with that.
Of course, i could revert to my original idea of having a St. Ives force along with a Hiritsu force for re-enacting CapCon-St. Ives War... Hrmm, gotta consider.
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Are you planning on building a Clan force? The Pillager is on the Inner Sphere and Homeworld Clan General availability lists. (Although I feel like this would be out of place in anything more than a second (or third) line Clan unit.)
The Cataphract is a classic Liao 'Mech so I'd leave it in the Liao force. I could go either way on moving the Wraith.
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A Clan force... someday. And first one would be a front-line force, so Omnis. Not a big fan of the Clans that field standard BattleMechs in frontline forces. The 'Mechs aren't the problem, rather that i tend to find those Clans... wrong.
The Cataphract happens to be one of my favorites, so i'm seriously considering having my Marik/Merc force steal or salvage one. Mind you, this force would field a Zeus and a JagerMech too, so the Cataphract might be a CTF-3D, ie a Davion Cataphract.
Unsure about the final force composition. I'd really love to get a Shen Yi to my Cappie force but that 'Mech is late-Jihad 'Mech unfortunately. Looks awesome. (And might get a Tian-Zong while at it. Cappies have a lot of awesome 'Mechs.)
Also, too bad there ain't no Pixiu mini yet, if there were, i'd order 4 and make two augmented Shadow Lances plus a command lance...
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I don't know what you have available so I'm not sure what to suggest. A simple (but possibly expensive) solution to the Cataphract problem would be to buy a second one (either the Command Lance pack for the plastic mini or the metal mini by itself). And if you got the Command Lance pack, you'd get a second Raven as well so you could put that in your Liao force.
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I don't need third Catapult and Cyclops. Have enough of duplicates, currently interested in expanding my options in general. Though i might end up ordering another Raven...
So problematic. I have many favorites and i'd rather not leave any out. But that grows my CapCon force to ridiculous size (compared to others).
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Building forces of multiple eras might help with dodging hard choices (but it won't help your bank account). For example, if you built a Capellan Jihad-era force, you could include the Shen Yi and others that you can't fit into the Civil War-era force. And since it's a different force for a different time, you're not growing your Civil War-era force out of proportion with other contemporary forces. (Then, I suppose the hard question becomes "Which force do I want this 'Mech in?")
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Currently thinking i'll make my Cappie force something that can be played during the Civil War Jihad and Dark Age eras without issues, with a lance of late/post-Jihad designs as alternatives or augmenting the company to a reinforced one. Or splitting it to two augmented companies, once we get some DA vehicle minis.
For now, i'll get a Raven (i need one Raven for other stuff), a Thunder and a Huron Warrior to fill out my Hiritsu company. Will expand it with a Tian-Zong and Shen Yi, possibly a Lu-Wei-Bing and... well, not sure what yet. Hopefully we'll get a Catapult II at some point.
Opponents? I'll make a Davion force that works during those three eras, augmented during the Dark Age with some newer 'Mechs and vehicles (Atlas III, Black Knight, Hollander III, Hanse MBT...).
16 'Mechs is a good number, as it allows for options for company vs company (or smaller) games.
My Vindicators found homes in a Rasalhague and Kurita company. Odd places, to be sure. My Cataphract gets Davion colors.
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=its a little late, but i figure you guys might be interested in on ofthe forces i created for my World Building project (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=53782.0) for Alpha Strike
33rd Hei'àn Company.
Hei'àn companies are a covert operation unit concept used by the Capellan Confederation, first seen in their offensives in the 3140's. They are largely used as deep strike, raiding, and guerilla support units. Hei'àn companies are primarily composed of older equipment drawn from storage to allow them to be formed rapidly, their personnel drawn from whatever sources are available at the formation. as a result many Hei'àn companies have a large percentage of pilots with minor disciplinary problems and criminal connections. The CCAF leadership consider Hei'àn units effectively expendable, and have not devoted much effort to overcoming these issues.
The 33rd fared better than most Hei'àn units when created, it's commander using his noble ties to arrange access to higher quality equipment, including obtaining an early prototype of the new Yinghuochong Battlemech for field testing. The unit was dispatched to assist the Lùyíngbing Guerillas on Hsien in the late 3130's, which at the time was deep behind enemy lines. Inserted over the course of several months disquised as laborers and machine tools for mines in the Chengu Jungles, the unit has thus far largely kept its operations limited to connecting to Lùyíngbing movement, and patrolling the deep jungles around their remote mining site base while a plan of action is developed.
Notable Persona's:
Sao-shao Qiang Bogdanov - Male, Middle Aged. Unit Commander. Connected to the Morgaine family on Betelgeuse by way of marriage. Pilots a CP-11-A-DC Cyclops command mech.
Sang-wei Yaser Ali - Male, Young. Tactical specialist, Operates the command console of the Cyclops.
Sao-shao Leonid Lau - Male, Young. 2nd in command. Volunteered for Hei'àn service, aggressive personality. Pilots a MAD-5L Marauder.
Si-ben-bing Zhen Kardos - Female, Young. Commander of Battle Armor detachment.
Sao-wei Motya Sun - Male, Late Middle Aged. Former instructor. Commander of pursuit lance. Pilots a TR1 Wraith that has been his assignment since the Capellan Crusades.
Sao-wei Rhoda Fay - Female, Young. Commands Scout Lance. Former Hellespont Industrials Test Pilot, has been assigned the Prototype YHC-3E Yinghuochong on loan from that company.
Unit Skill Points Role SPA's
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
(Fire Lance Formation)
Cyclops CP-11-A-DC 3 46 Sniper (Sniper)
Marauder MAD-5L 4 44 Sniper (Sniper)
Catapult CPLT-C3 4 39 Missile Boat
Catapult CPLT-C3 4 39 Missile Boat
Fa Shih Battle Armor [Laser] 4 9 Ambusher
Fa Shih Battle Armor [Laser] 4 9 Ambusher
Locust LCT-1Vb 5 14 Striker
Locust LCT-1Vb 5 14 Striker
Clint CLNT-2-3U 4 20 Striker
Wraith TR1 4 30 Skirmisher
Fa Shih Battle Armor [Laser] 4 9 Ambusher
Fa Shih Battle Armor [Laser] 4 9 Ambusher
(Recon Lance Formation)
Raven RVN-4L 4 26 Striker (Eagle Eyes, Forward Observer)
Raven RVN-4L 4 26 Striker (Eagle Eyes, Forward Observer)
Yinghuochong YHC-3E 4 25 Striker (Eagle Eyes, Forward Observer)
Assassin ASN-99 4 22 Scout (Forward Observer)
Fa Shih Battle Armor [Laser] 4 9 Ambusher
Fa Shih Battle Armor [Laser] 4 9 Ambusher
Total 400pts
the Hei'àn Company's are my own idea, sorta halfway between a Capellan Shadow Lance and the Combines Ghost Regiments. the name means "darkness", with it's parts having alternate meanings like secret, hidden, covert, etc. the concept is basically to let me avoid using a canon unit, and to give me a Shadow Lance type unit without being stuck having to use all stealth armor designs.
i suspect that this concept will be ripped apart now, but constructive feedback would be appreciated
i kinda envisioned the formation of this unit being a bit like the film "the devils brigade" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Devil%27s_Brigade_(film)), where you have one group assigned that are professional and highly skilled.. and the rest are basically the dregs of the military..
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I have several companies painted up for the various factions, and I'm going to paint up a new one for Liao.
I have decided to do Warrior House Matsukai.
Here's a list of 24 mechs which I have sitting in a ready tray, assembled and primed. I'd like to see which 16 you'd pick. (I want to paint up 4 lances) Era doesn't matter.
Pillager
Pillager
Atlas
Yu Huang
Longbow
Awesome
Goliath
Zeus
Cataphract
Warhammer
Avatar
Lao Hu
Men Shen
Hunchback
Griffin
Sha Yu
Sha Yu
Dervish
Firestarter Omni
Snake
Hermes
Jenner
Firestarter
Wasp
Thanks in advance! :)
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Pillager
Pillager
Yu Huang
Cataphract
Warhammer
Avatar
Lao Hu
Men Shen
Hunchback
Griffin
Sha Yu
Sha Yu
Dervish
Snake
Firestarter
Wasp
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Pillager
Pillager
Yu Huang
Cataphract
Warhammer
Avatar
Lao Hu
Men Shen
Hunchback
Griffin
Sha Yu
Sha Yu
Dervish
Snake
Firestarter
Wasp
Interesting!
No Firestarter Omni surprised me most, and that you did list the Firestatrter light. I also know the Awesome and Jenner are popular. I kinda like your list though, Rainbow 6. Ah well, no love for old Faction classic Goliath! ;D The 3050 Upgrade is no upgrade 400 rounds for 1 machinegun :P
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400 rounds for 1 machinegun :P
Prototype of the suicide charge that the Kuritans developed.
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Pillager
Yu Huang*
Lao Hu
Cataphract
Avatar**
Warhammer
Hunchback
Griffin
Men Shen*
Sha Yu
Sha Yu
Wasp
Firestarter Omni*
Snake
Jenner
Firestarter
I went for factional flavour. Note, I haven't done the MUL-work to be sure on roles, but it's in the ballpark. Lance commanders single starred, company commander double starred.
In the assault/heavy battle lance, the Lao Hu and Yu Huang are gorgeous minis to paint, the Pillager is traditional, and the Cataphract an old favourite.
Command lance - pick a Missile Boat Avatar. Or maybe the LRM-laden Hunchie.
In the striker/medium battle lance, it's stealth all the way for a Shadow Lance. Post 3070, you can use the Stealth Griffin instead
For heavy recon, fastest around, and the Jenner is an old Compact of Kapetyn lend-lease.
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If I were able to get my hands on a Blackjack Omni, would you swap it for one of the mediums in the list, and if so which one?
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If I were able to get my hands on a Blackjack Omni, would you swap it for one of the mediums in the list, and if so which one?
I would, but I dislike duplicating 'Mechs in a unit.
worktroll's choices make sense to me and he mentions the stealth Griffin (the GRF-5L) as an option for an after-3070 unit. If you replace one of the Sha Yus with this stealth Griffin, you have a spot in your command lance to add the Blackjack omni.
The Griffin will limit the speed of the striker lance slightly but it should be able to make up for that with jumping.
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Hello all,
I have a question that I can not seem to find an answer for anywhere.
So I bring it to the Cappy Forums.
Is there / What is, the paint scheme for Home Guard units?
I want to paint up a Vehicle platoon to go with my line mech lances, but, I can't seem to find specific colors for the Home Guard.
Can anyone point me in the right direction please? I've already checked Camo Specs & found nothing there.
Even just some confirmation quote from a book saying "they use basic camo" would be fine if that is all there is, but as it stands now, I'm not finding anything specific one way or the other.
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There's very little to say about them; they've never been written up beyond broad general terms. There's next to nothing on their individual units beyond when they're mentioned in some specific engagement or other such context, eg a TRO entry. All in all, given their bottom-tier status, I'd imagine that they just use generic camoflauge appropriate to the terrain/world they're on.
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I've run into this myself, and in MegaMek I just put them in Liao green.
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My goodness, no Liao love for a year?!
Here we go! Thoughts on the following?
15th Dracons, originally a SLDF unit that stayed behind when Kerensky said it was time to leave. They found most service with Kurita and Liao. They were also known to maintain some SLDF era mechs like Highlanders and Crocketts.
Their reputation was so high thanks to their voluntary donation of a percentage of their pay to the local area they lived in. Until the end of the 15th Dracon's existence, House Kurita gave them a new 'mech every year even when they were not in their service and even during the whole death to Mercenary fiasco for the DC. Eventually they became part of the CC's units like the 4th Tau Ceti Rangers did. So I decided that since I wanted to build a Capellan Force, why not go for these guys? I could also field them as their normal Merc selves depending on the era. I love their paint scheme as well; a nice grey with OD Green as a secondary color! Yes please!
Note the below. Their service along with their heritage will show a mix of SLDF, Liao, and Kuritan mechs in service. Also, they have access to Mercenary general list (using the Alpha Strike Mercenary book) as well.
1st Company, 3rd Battalion, 15th Dracons...
Command Lance:
-Highlander-732
-Charger-1A5
-Crockett-5003-1
-Hatamoto-Chi-27T
*Command Lance using the rules for 15th Dracons in their Alpha Strike notation requires them to have a Command lance of Assaults that do NOT have to meet the requirements of the typical Command lance, and they still get the benefits. Presence of the SLDF mechs like the Highlander and Crockett are a tribute to their SLDF days.
Battle Lance
-Thunderbolt-5SE
-Flashman-7K
-Crusader-3L
-Vindicator-1R
*Jumping Thunderbolt is cool. A Crusader thrown in for some minor indirect and to give the lance a more heavy feel. With back up from a Vindicator and a bit of extra firepower from the Flashman gives this lance a little versatility and some ranged firepower. Flashman is a good representation to the SLDF roots as well.
Striker Lance
-Catapult-C1
-Quickdraw-4G
-Shadow Hawk-2H
-Javelin-10N
*Decent bit of mobility(all of them jump) with some ranged firepower in the form of a Catapult, I think this lance fits the bill for exploiting dense terrain.
Recon Lance
-Charger-1A1
-Wolverine-6R
-Vulcan-5T
-Stinger-3Gb
*Relatively quick, the Charger is a nasty surprise for medium and lights to have to deal with, especially in a brawl. One good turn of punches or a kick will leave a nasty mark. The Wolverine is a good all around backup, while the Vulcan and Stinger can cover ground pretty quick.
The high frequency of jumping mechs allows for the 3rd Battalion to adjust the battlefield situations, especially to cut enemies off from access to the civilian populations they are protecting.
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If you're going with third battalion, maybe consider more mechs with indirect fire capability in order to maximize benefits from the recon lance. It will cost more faction points, but the Capellan CRD-3L is derived from an SLDF design. The Trebuchet and the Dervish were also SLDF mechs that could provide indirect fire.
Depends on what style of combat you want to focus on.
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Problem is that the 3rd Battalion's requirements are a Battle/Assault Lance, Striker Lance, and a Recon Lance which each have their own requirements. I can try to fiddle with it though!
I did it, fit the Crusader-3L in there. It makes sense as well, I actually like the composition a bit more, and the fact that it is a jumping version made it even more attractive to me!
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Where's your secondary forces?
TT
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I would have to sit down and hammer those out. Right now I am just building a Company + Command Lance from their Battalion. It's odd, the Mercenary ALpha Strike book doesn't say much about anything other than the Mech formations for the 15th Dracons.
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What era are planning on most using this? I know you'll want generic multi-era, so you can reuse said minis, even when you " dumb "down them later on during SW. After the Helm/ Invasion you'll might swap out a unit or two, but generally keep the same overall feel. Drastic restructuring hurts a lot. Only time I see this is late Jihad/ Dark Age.
I can help with some ideas o vehicles if you need, complete with TO&E.
TT
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Thinking late Succession Wars, sometime after 3030 but before the Clan Invasion. The 3rd was reformed in 3030 from what I recall. The book I am using says the 15th Dracon 3rd Battalion was a mech battalion, no mention of any vehicles anywhere. In fact none of the entries shows vehicles in their use. Not saying there never were, but if I am using a book that drives the force composition, especially for play using Alpha Strike, then I have to abide. I do love vehicles and combined arms though.
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you can always do the vehicles and infantry, and just assign said vehicles and infantry to some other unit. even if a mech unit does not have integral combined arms, it is highly probable that like armored units today, they'd be deployed with parts of other units attached to fill that gap. (IRL tank units never deploy alone, they always have some companies/battalions/etc attached from mechanized infantry units so that the tanks have infantry support.)
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This thread has reminded me that I need to paint up my House Daidachi mechs. I've had them assembled and in a box for about 3 years now ;D
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I am no Capellan fan.
Nobody’s perfect.
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Nobody’s perfect.
Are you implying that the Celestial Wisdom is flawed? I think you need to pay another visit to the Maskirovka's Happy Camps. ;)
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Not done, but to show my support to the Capellan Confederation, here are my 15th Dracons ready for factory paint. They have the primer on them, that is all!
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Are you implying that the Celestial Wisdom is flawed? I think you need to pay another visit to the Maskirovka's Happy Camps. ;)
And here you are, implying that there have been previous visits! The attempts of the preventive arm of the Great House of Liao, Victor of the Succession Wars, First Lord of the Star League, conqueror of Clan Smoke Jaguar, have been well enough documented, sirrah, and do not include a visit to any penile colony.
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(http://68.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m650qwKne51r7cs8z.gif)
PLEASE tell me that's a spelling error.
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Skirting potential ban territory here but
The Celestial Wisdom is mighty in all ways, those who doubt will find out the hard way just how far we will go, and leave satisfied that Liao exceeds their standards
Seriously needed to happen
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...penile...
LOL! I couldn't help it!
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OK folks, what would you consider the most iconic o Assault mech for the Capellans, pre3055.
Thanks
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Charger or Victor.
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Going by Sana, yes I did go through every entry!
It seems Longbow and then Emperor mechs.
TT
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(Kind of sort of) Related question, but what would you consider to be the most iconic CCAF colour scheme? I was thinking about this recently, but nothing actually popped into my mind as something that immediately screams "CCAF" to me.
I can think of ones for the other Successor States; the Davion Guards for the AFFS, the Sword of Light for the DCMS, the Marik Millita for the FWLM and the Lyran Guards for the LCAF. But nothing comes to me for the CCAF.
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The CCAF is composed of both front-line and reserve units, as well as Home Guard and planetary militia units. Mercenary forces also play a major role in defending the Confederation, with McCarron's Armored Cavalry winning itself equal standing with the likes of other famous mercenary units. Outside the military chain-of-command and answerable only to the Chancellor are the elite Warrior Houses and Death Commandos.
TT
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(Kind of sort of) Related question, but what would you consider to be the most iconic CCAF colour scheme? I was thinking about this recently, but nothing actually popped into my mind as something that immediately screams "CCAF" to me.
I can think of ones for the other Successor States; the Davion Guards for the AFFS, the Sword of Light for the DCMS, the Marik Millita for the FWLM and the Lyran Guards for the LCAF. But nothing comes to me for the CCAF.
Red Lancers? Loyal bodyguards, elite of the elite.
Warrior House Imarra? Much the same, but with the very cool Ion Rush at the helm.
Death commandos? Uber cool, part special forces, part Battlemech assault force.
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(Kind of sort of) Related question, but what would you consider to be the most iconic CCAF colour scheme? I was thinking about this recently, but nothing actually popped into my mind as something that immediately screams "CCAF" to me.
I can think of ones for the other Successor States; the Davion Guards for the AFFS, the Sword of Light for the DCMS, the Marik Millita for the FWLM and the Lyran Guards for the LCAF. But nothing comes to me for the CCAF.
Gonna agree on House Imarra probably being the most iconic. The colors pretty much match the CCAF dress uniforms.
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I find it interesting that the Red Lancers don't get nearly as much press as similarly elite house units (eg Davion Guards) despite their prestige and status. And as an added bonus, they're a CCAF unit that didn't die in the Succession Wars, which is pretty rare in and of itself.
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Going by Sana, yes I did go through every entry!
It seems Longbow and then Emperor mechs.
TT
You, sir, are truly dedicated, with a touch of insanity. Are you sure you're not related to the Chancellor's line?
Thanks
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(Kind of sort of) Related question, but what would you consider to be the most iconic CCAF colour scheme?
I might be slightly biased (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=35936.0), but at least for me the one that immediately pops to mind is House Ma-Tsu Kai.
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You, sir, are truly dedicated, with a touch of insanity. Are you sure you're not related to the Chancellor's line?
Thanks
Shhhh! My Maskirovka Day Pass is expired...
TT
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Shhhh! My Maskirovka Day Pass is expired...
TT
I'll put in a good word for you.
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(http://68.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m650qwKne51r7cs8z.gif)
PLEASE tell me that's a spelling error.
It was quite intentional, thank you.
LOL! I couldn't help it!
*Takes a bow*
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What era are planning on most using this? I know you'll want generic multi-era, so you can reuse said minis, even when you " dumb "down them later on during SW. After the Helm/ Invasion you'll might swap out a unit or two, but generally keep the same overall feel. Drastic restructuring hurts a lot. Only time I see this is late Jihad/ Dark Age.
I can help with some ideas o vehicles if you need, complete with TO&E.
TT
So now that I am knocking out my Company and Command Lance of mechs, I need to figure out some type of support units. Was thinking of limiting it to a single Company.
I would need to use SLDF derived choices, along with a a Capellan hint of flavor.
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Greetings, citizens of the Confederation. I was wondering if any of you might be able to help me with a question: Do you know of any sourcebooks or scenario packs that list special unit rules for Warrior House Dai Da Chi, aside from Field Manual Capellan Confederation?
I've seen other units with new abilities listed in the Jihad and Dark Age era and was wondering where to find updates on Dai Da Chi's rules, if available. Thanks!
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Unfortunately, I don't believe what you're looking for exists.
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Unless/until they resuscitate the Combat Manual line and get to covering House Liao.
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Thanks. I suspected that was the case, but since there are a few Dark Age and post-Jihad products I don't own, I thought I would check just in case.
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Related question to my previous one: I was debating purchasing "Historical: Wars of the Republic" for information on Liao forces in the Victoria War. Can anyone tell me what (if any) House Liao units are listed with special unit abilities in that book, please? (Not asking for the actual abilities/rules, but would like to know what Liao units are profiled in the book before I decide to buy.)
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Victoria Wars section has rules for 2nd MAC, 1st St. Ives Lancers, Prefectorate Guard, Kingston's Rangers, and 4th Tau Ceti Rangers (as well as a bunch of Magistracy units).
Capellan Crusades section has rules for Death Commandos, Dynasty Guard, 4th MAC, Red Lancers, 6th Capellan Reserve, and Warrior House Kamata.
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Thank you very much, that's extremely helpful! I was looking for information on Warrior House Kamata as well. I think I'll pick up the PDF version tonight.
EDIT: I've just been reading more about Warrior House Kamata in "Historical: Wars of the Republic" and "Field Manual: 3085." I have to say, I think their history and flavor text are great. I loved FM:3085's description of how they chose a young and inexperienced Mechwarrior as their House Master because she mysteriously unlocked a former House Master's museum 'Mech. And their ability to roll for good and bad omens each turn in combat, with bad omens giving penalties and good ones giving outstanding bonuses, is very funny and appropriate! ;D
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Kamata was always my favorite Warrior House after Ma-Tsu Kai.
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Kamata was always my favorite Warrior House after Ma-Tsu Kai.
Kamata is my fav. Love the mix of Japanese and classic Han cultures
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I’m partial to the Rakshasa and White Tigers, personally. ;)
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My favourite CCAF unit is the MAC. That's probably cheating.
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Random question, due to a scenario idea that popped into my head: In all likelihood, what VTOL designs might be used aboard the Andrusha frigates of Liao for SAR or spotting duties?
(Canon units only, please)
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Why AppleChurchill surveillance vtols, why else?
;)
TT
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Oh, VERY nice! Those would make perfect sub spotters! Now I just need something with a ton or two of cargo, for the carrying(and dropping) of torpedo bombs.
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Oh, VERY nice! Those would make perfect sub spotters! Now I just need something with a ton or two of cargo, for the carrying(and dropping) of torpedo bombs.
Look up the variants.... not saying they can't either!
I'd even go as far as to request you look at the Marten.
TT
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There was vague description of variants, but no sheets. No official record sheet = no good for me.
I'll take a look at the Marten.
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I would say the Sprint or the Crow. Chances are probably very high the Combine will sell you the non export version of the Crow.
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Is Laurel's Legion still extant, and are they still a part of the CCAF?
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Is Laurel's Legion still extant, and are they still a part of the CCAF?
Yes and yes. They led the charge to liberate Tigress, their homeworld, as mentioned in FM 3145. And as a sidenote, the CO struck up a friendship with Danai Liao-Centrella. :)
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Hmmm. I may actually not have that FM. My books are packed away at the moment or I would check.
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Hmmm. I may actually not have that FM. My books are packed away at the moment or I would check.
That’s what I’m here for, Top! I’m happy to help, as this was one of those little factoids I knew off-hand. :)
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Hello! I’m new here. I have an interest in the “classic” board game and St. Ives, so this thread seems a good place to start. I’m pretty new to the whole setting but I’m pretty set of St. Ives as a faction already (before or after reunification, just as long as it’s before Candace Liao is killed :P ). This is more of an introduction post than anything else, my apologies to the mods if they feel it’s too unproductive.
And I have started a thread about the 2nd st Ives lancers in this same sub forum, in and I’d appreciate any input any of you could offer (just in case there’s anyone who just reads this thread for some reason) :D
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Novel-wise the Capellan Solution novels have a lot of St. Ives action, particularly 2nd St. Ives Lancers in the guise of one plucky Cassandra Allard-Liao and some other "every-man" Capellan characters that aren't supermen.
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Thanks! I'll have to look at those. There are just 2?
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They’re the only ones of any real significance.
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They’re the only ones of any real significance.
There’s also Dagger Point - ie: the SLDF re-fights Vietnam.
Gives you the outsider perspective of the FedSuns and SLDF desperate to step in but unable to thanks to Sun-Tzu’s masterwork meddling.
I actually hated everything else by this particular author but Dagger Point is ok
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There’s also Dagger Point - ie: the SLDF re-fights Vietnam.
Gives you the outsider perspective of the FedSuns and SLDF desperate to step in but unable to thanks to Sun-Tzu’s masterwork meddling.
I actually hated everything else by this particular author but Dagger Point is ok
more like "the SLDF in Beirut"
the Vietnam Expy was Ideal War.
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I forgot about Dagger Point! Good call, sir.
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I went to Origins last week and while I was there I handed out a sheet listing my last 20 unassigned Battlemech miniatures which appear on the CCAF forces roster and asked them to selected 12 for me, and that's going to be my last CCAF unit, Warrior House Matsukai.
The 20 nominees: Pillager (x2), Atlas, Yu Huang, Longbow, Awesome, Cataphract, Avatar, Lao Hu, Men Shen, Hunchback, Sha yu (x2), Dervish, Firestarter Omni, Snake, Hermes, Jenner, Firestarter, Wasp.
They could pick any 12, using whatever criteria they wished. What I got back isn't exactly what I would have done but I think it will be fun and it gets me out of my rut. Every 'Mech got at least one vote, yes that includes the Wasp and Firestarter!
The Matsukai Company is as follows:
Pillager
Pillager
Yu Huang
Longbow
Awesome
Cataphract
Avatar
Lao Hu
Men Shen
Sha Yu
Firestarter Omni
Snake
Each of the above got at least 6 votes. The remaining eight 'mechs received no more than 4 each: Sha Yu (4), Dervish (4), Jenner (4), Atlas (3), Hunchback (3), Firestarter (2), Hermes (1), Wasp (1)
So what do you all think of the Company as it turned out? What 12 would you have chosen? When I (eventually) get them painted I will post pictures.
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Don't know if I can improve on the choices, given the menu. I would swap the places for the Yu Huang and Awesome, to keep the second lance more mobile and make the first lance more of a dedicated fire lance. That gives you a solid long-range lance that can soak firepower, a versatile heavyweight battle lance, and a speedy striker lance.
I do recommend making one of the Pillagers the Arrow-IV variant.
If you're missing anything, it's the infantry! The three omnis can lift battle armor with ease and the Fa Shih should latch onto the rest.
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Gents,
Some help if I may request it. I'm preparing for a Dark Age CCAF augmented battalion - great uses for appropriate DA vehicles & BA. This would be, if not a 'second line' unit, a garrison unit designed around urban warfare. Here's the structure to date:
Command
(m)
Rifleman IIC 8
Catapult
(m)
Morningstar
Morningstar Company Command
Artillery
Padilla
Padilla
Padilla
Padilla
(m)
(m)
Fire Support
JES III C3
JES III C3
JES III C3
JES III C3
Quickdraw
(m)
Urban Assault
Zahn
Zahn
BA
BA
BA
BA
Carnivore IS
Carnivore IS
(sv)
Recon/Probe
Shun
Shun
Hawk Moth II
Hawk Moth II
BA
BA
BA
BA
Defense
UrbanMech AIV
UrbanMech
UrbanMech
UrbanMech
(sv)
(sv)
Brawler/Striker
Crusader
(m)
(m)
(m)
Fa Shih
Fa Shih
Fa Shih
Fa Shih
So the first lance is obviously the command lance, general purpose reserve, plus the ability to link 10 other C3 slaves.
Second lance is artillery - I'm torn between having the two 'Mechs bodyguards, or spotters. Thoughts?
Third lance is indirect fire support, with the ability to link to C3 spotters. Definitely two bodyguard 'Mechs here.
Fourth lance is "urban assault" - two Zahns, four squads of BA, and two Carnivore IS version, to attack that city block.
Fifth lance is fast recon/strike - four squads of jump BA can exit the Shun at speed, with the Hawk Moth IIs as spotters
Sixth lance is defence - four Urbies, plus two slow tanks (think Zhukov, or Behemoth).
Seventh lance is "cavalry" - four fast brawler-types with integral Fa Shih squads
Wherever I've listed a name, I've already got the mini. What I'm looking for is suggestions for the holes in the TO&E that
1) Are available to CCAF in DA
2) Aren't mega-front-line - no Clan omnis, no shiny new stuff - this is a garrison/occupation unit after all
3) "feel" Capellan
4) Exist as a mini (or an easily modded mini).
Thoughts, please?
W.
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@Top Sergeant I wouldn't have taken the Longbow going with stealth Hunchy or Sha Yu. Not that I think that's better I just don't like the Longbow.
@Worktroll Did they change it again? You should have 54 slots not 49? Command lance plus 4x companies of two lances of 6. Beyond that idk Catapult for the third lance Ti Tsang for the seventh? I'd go with bodyguards for the second,but I think more that we have different styles. Tian-Zong for the command slot too shiny?
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Why not older Aug Formation?
TT
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I see your Rifle(man) but where are your Guns? They're made expressly for Garrison units (Atleast that's how the Confederation is described as using them.)
Thunders and Lao Shu are now generations old. The Confederation is being described as buying as many Avalanches as they can. Besides that, I'm fond of the design. Calliopes are popular and where are the Vindicators and Ravens? I'm also fond of the MHL-2L Marshal.
*Goes off and hides*
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I see your Rifle(man) but where are your Guns? They're made expressly for Garrison units (Atleast that's how the Confederation is described as using them.)
Thunders and Lao Shu are now generations old. The Confederation is being described as buying as many Avalanches as they can. Besides that, I'm fond of the design. Calliopes are popular and where are the Vindicators and Ravens? I'm also fond of the MHL-2L Marshal.
*Goes off and hides*
Kinda depends where they're coming from. Something in the Victoria Commonality might have more aging Vindicators, but a newly raised unit like the Tikonov Guards may have newer made filler units like the Firebee and the ASN-23 Assassin. Republic mechs may also be present in the units being raised or garrisoning former Republic worlds.
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Why not older Aug Formation?
TT
Why would someone want that? Unless it was part of some kind of malicious plot that involved saddling a promising Sao-shao/Major with a rag tag unit. In other words I saw your post on the next page, and realized you may have talking to me. In which case because there's a command lance, and the seventh lance is 4 mechs + 4 BA. Also without the fourth company you're more likely to get anemia than augmentation.
(Half 3039! I mean I like endo, DHS, and CASE but i'm figuring I've missed a TRO)
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But use the Formations WITH 3039 tech.
Command:
4 Mechs, 2 BA
Aug Lance 1:
4 Mechs, 2 Tanks
4 Mechs, 2 Tanks
Aug Lance 2:
4 Mechs, 2 Tanks
4 Mechs, 2 Tanks
Aug Lance 3:
4 Mechs, 2 Tanks
4 Mechs, 2 BA
Aug Lance 4:
4 Tanks, 4 BA
4 Tanks, 4 BA
TT
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3039 wouldn't have had BA though.
and i like the Augmented lances.. especially in Alpha Strike, where they are easier to use. my own unit was designed with 4 Augmented Lances.. a Fire Lance (doubling as a command lance), recon lance, and Pursuit lance with BA, and a Heavy battle Lance with a pair of tanks.
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Who says it has to be 3039?
If this was DA, I'd run a garrison with older 3039-3050 tech in a heart beat!
TT
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I may have lost the thread of the the conversation. The CCAF uses command companies which is why I once nominally used a reinforced augmented regiment. There's no reason for Worktroll not to be using a deviation or transitional formation (more so with that B/S lance), but if it was older aug it would be a six or a reinforced eight lance battalion without a command lance.
I'm not sure if you're talking about refits (a TRO I missed) or slapping endo/DHS/case/? on 3025 designs.
@glitterboy2098 I'm referring to commissar truetanker's Weird Liao Ideas... What makes you special? (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=61076.0) thread, but since another quarter is 3050 any BA would just eat up your advanced tech anyway.
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Seeing as this is the home of the Capellans, I feel this would be a good place to ask: what kind of mechs was the Confederation making in the immediate aftermath of the 4th Succession Wars? Just Vindicators and Bugs?
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Seeing as this is the home of the Capellans, I feel this would be a good place to ask: what kind of mechs was the Confederation making in the immediate aftermath of the 4th Succession Wars? Just Vindicators and Bugs?
FASA's 20 Year Update (page 60) says the Confederation's four remaining 'Mech plants were shut down while secondary facilities were rebuilt.
- An illustration on the next page shows a Charger being disassembled in a design lab, next to schematics for a Hatamoto. (My headcanon is the Confederation shut down Hunchback and Charger lines sometime after 3039 in order to make the AC/20 Charger.)
- The Ceres Metals plant on Capella is said to have everything it needs for Vindicators built on-world, so it was probably first to resume production. I would bet it only builds Vindicators.
- Betelgeuse's production is unknown to me. Its about half the size of the plants on Capella or Grand Base.
- TR:3050 describes the site on Ares as a "partially rebuilt Bergan Industries plant" producing Locust-1Vs with flawed TSM. The site was pretty small, so that may be all it builds.
- The Earthwerks plant on Grand Base was the biggest, newest, and (in 3036) last to reopen. It builds Cataphracts and presumably other things too.
- I believe Hellespont's Raven facility on Sian is new, and probably small. I'd be surprised if it did more than trickle out Ravens.
- TR:3050 has the Confederation in 3051 issuing "Field Modification Kits" for the UrbanMech, Clint, Catapult, and Crusader. The old House Liao book mentions "new" Catapults in the 2930s.
TR:3050 mentions that the Capellans relied on FWL production to rebuild their regiments, and they traded TSM for help and new technology in 3046. The text is otherwise scarce on Capellan mentions and it's hard to draw solid inferences.
- Stingers, Thunderbolts, Warhammers and Chargers all seem likely. Wasps and Stalkers may be likely.
- JagerMechs and BattleMasters are explicitly nixed. Wolverines and Marauders seem unlikely. Griffins, Shadow Hawks and Archers may be unlikely.
- Phoenix Hawk and Rifleman lack even the obliquest of references. Could go either way.
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Per TRO 3039
Vindicator, CMI on Capella
Raven, Hellespont on Sian
Cataphract, Earthwerks on Grand Base
Locust, Bergan on Ares
Stinger, Earthwerks on Grand Base
So immediately after the 4 war, there's not much in production.
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Cataphract has always been a good battlemech.
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Seeing as this is the home of the Capellans, I feel this would be a good place to ask: what kind of mechs was the Confederation making in the immediate aftermath of the 4th Succession Wars? Just Vindicators and Bugs?
Locust, Stinger (x2), Wasp, Raven, Vindicator, Cataphract, Charger-A5
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What about the HotHammer?
TT
Edit: found it...
Menke and St. Ives both under StarCorps Industries...
Edit2: Apparently they also make Xanthos-30 on Corey by Hollis Incorporation.
TT
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What about the HotHammer?
TT
Edit: found it...
Menke and St. Ives both under StarCorps Industries...
St. Ives isn't in the Capcon in the 3030's and 3040's, but Menke is. but odds are that given the lack of production occurring on other worlds in capcon, as pointed out by skiltao, there would not be much in the way of new mechs being built there either. spare parts perhaps, but the disruption of the Capcon's losses (and the mismanagement by Romano during its reconstruction) appears to have made larger production difficult. presumably the Capcon spent most of the decades post 4th succession war trying to reorganize its logistical infrastructure so it can build new mechs using just the factories inside the surviving Capcon territory. given how they lost so much of their original industrial power during the war, whether to the fedcom conquest or the St.Ives succession, that was probably a fairly major undertaking.
Edit2: Apparently they also make Xanthos-30 on Corey by Hollis Incorporation.
the Xanthos was extinct before the 2nd succession war even started, so not going to be a factor here.
we know the Corey plant was building HGN-733 Highlander's prior to the 4th succession war (as said war stopped production) but odds are they were not building many. the only other mech in the Corey plant's list on Sarna that was pre-clan is the Catapult, but we know that line got wrecked in the early years of the 1st succession war.
so it would appear that Corey is not building much of anything in the 30's and 40's.. at best they were putting out spare parts for highlanders.
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Yes, Xanthos-20 was made extinct when Hollis on Corey created the first operational ( primitive ) quadrupedal mech. Xanthos-30 was the new upgraded version made standard from 2579 on up to the parts made till the Jihad.
Even if new parts are made, someone is buying them, specially when their a " custom " job. You can't just state a unit is extinct just because it's no longer being built as a complete unit. If a part can be salvaged from a broken version, it can be replaced in said broken unit, if not then a new part has to be built from the older stockpiles.
Simple rules are simple enough to follow. Xanthos unit is made, sure it's centuries old, hell every Mech in the Inner Sphere is... it loses it's front right foot and lower actuator due to damage. Now where would you find 100 ton strength rated superstructure... well it need to fit somehow... or go without and become a 2/3? Or would you rather pay Hollis a bit more to retrieve an older stockpiled one? Or even a newier version as you did a fine job on that last one you did for them. After all, company store and all...
TT
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TR3075:
"House Liao purchased most of the Xanthos 3O’s. The
’Mechs did well in the field, but delivery delays led the
Confederation to end procurement of the assault machine.
Attrition resulted in the design disappearing from the battlefield
by the Second Succession War."
It specifically says the 30s were gone by the 2nd SW.
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Canon just states that design disappeared from field duties, not extinct, as the last one was not destroyed.
Which means, parts have to be cannibalized to make others work, also STOCKPILES could still be around... the unit in question may not be built as a whole unit anymore, but I'll bet there's parts out there waiting to be put together, until after 3067, when the factory made more versions...
Best solution, hard to come by and expensive to ship, just like LAMs and Goliath parts...
TT
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That’s a definition of production that is meaningless. That there might be enough spare parts to put one together isn’t “in production”.
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Which is why I have always thought outside of the proverbial box...
If one was made, and there is a record of it, one can be made again...
And I'm out...
( drops the mic )
TT
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Charger-A5
Is a modification of the 1L purchased from the Combine. Since they're not making the mech, does that really count as a CapCon production?
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That’s a definition of production that is meaningless. That there might be enough spare parts to put one together isn’t “in production”.
also while the MUL does not list a late succession wars availability for the Xanthos -3O (at all, the category is missing), it goes from available in the early succession wars (1st and 2nd) to "extinct" in the clan invasion, which would support the interpretation that the design is extinct during the 3rd and 4th succession war/late succession wars. given that production is stated to have stopped before the 2nd war, which was one of the most destructive wars the IS ever saw, suggests that examples of the mech probably did not survive the 2nd war as anything other than the rare museum display.
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Xanthos -3O
I'm glad somebody can get the right designation. O, like the second to last letter in it's name, not some silly number 0.
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Menke was built into a factory world AFTER the War of 3039, so no production there after the 4th SW. Warhammer production in the Confederation is tied to Project Phoenix, and not earlier.
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Then please explain the HotHammer... if it was a post 4th production... as the above clearly states.
TT
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The HotHammer was probably a mod, tweaking WarHammers already in inventory.
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The HotHammer was probably a mod, tweaking WarHammers already in inventory.
Bingo. Don't need no factory to swap in some flamers, my friend! >:D
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Then please explain the HotHammer... if it was a post 4th production... as the above clearly states.
TT
Replacing 2 MG + 1 ton of ammo with 2 Flamers is a Class B (Field) refit. Technically it can be carried out during normal field repair operations, you don't even need the support of a 'Mech transport bay, let alone a dedicated facility.
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Is a modification of the 1L purchased from the Combine. Since they're not making the mech, does that really count as a CapCon production?
Factory-level refit, so there's an assembly line. Just not a complete one.
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Okay, Capellan experts - anyone got any clue on what uniforms the St ives Compact used, during it's brief adolescent period flirting with the House from the wrong side of the tracks?
Wondering if they kept Capellan uniform styles, used castoff Feddie stuff, or a mixture of both? Looking to paint up some infantry for the 2nd St Ives.
Thanks in advance!
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2nd St. Ives Lancers ~ The insignia of the St. Ives Armored Cavalry is an orange sunburst set against an inverted blue double pyramid, with the Cavalry paint scheme a standard gray-tinted green, the Second Lancers highlighting this with jade. The insignia of the Second shows two rearing horses on a green field facing each other, wearing ivory crowns.
2nd St. Ives Sentinels~ In 3025, a stylized Vedette tank on a white field.
In 3063, a stylized tank set against an inverted green triangle.
These are the official emblems WT.
For uniforms... the above with this:
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Uniforms_of_the_CCAF (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Uniforms_of_the_CCAF)
Mostly cameo!
TT
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Got the 'Mech & vehicle paintjobs under control, TT, but thanks. Just wondering how to paint the St ives infantry.
Will go CCAF standard; thus they can probably serve as Compact or Commonality troops.
W.
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Did you read closely about the color schemes?
Senior Officers - same as Non-Coms + Black Helmets, Black Leggings, Black Vests and Silver-Black belts.
Non-Coms - Dark Green uniforms, Green Shoulder packs with White straps and Dark Green Vests with Black belts.
TT
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Repainting DA infantry; some of that level of detail isn't going to be seen. But thanks!
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Has the Xin Sheng spirit completely left this place? Just because those Kuritan Hòuwèi abandoned us on Northwind, it does not mean that the Celestial Wisdom does not have a greater plan for us to defeat the Devil Stone and his Fed Scum allies once and for all!
(https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/1200x800/public/d8/images/2019/03/21/junliang-zhang-30.jpg?itok=K-VKoULX)
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Oh my, thread Necromancy after a year off....
Strange considering what a position of power House Liao is in currently, kerfuffles with Clan Sea Fox notwithstanding.
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I'm currently putting together a TO&E for a 3147-ish iteration of Kingston's Rangers, and because I want some variety and the Capellan fanbase is pretty wide, I thought I'd put this out there: what are some of your favorite augmented lances? This is an A-rated regiment, so feel free to get nasty.
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For a standard augmented, I rather like:
Tian-Zong N1, Cataphract 4L, Victor 10L, Lao Hu 4E, Pixiu (x2)
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Oooh, nice, that's exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for. Thanks!
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I'm currently putting together a TO&E for a 3147-ish iteration of Kingston's Rangers, and because I want some variety and the Capellan fanbase is pretty wide, I thought I'd put this out there: what are some of your favorite augmented lances? This is an A-rated regiment, so feel free to get nasty.
These links may help:
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/ground-combat/help-me-build-an-augmented-capellan-command-(republicdark-age-era)/msg612116/#msg612116 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/ground-combat/help-me-build-an-augmented-capellan-command-(republicdark-age-era)/msg612116/#msg612116)
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/non-canon-units/paget's-dragoons-1st-batt-toe-46418/msg1070309/#msg1070309 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/non-canon-units/paget's-dragoons-1st-batt-toe-46418/msg1070309/#msg1070309)
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Okay, I'm at 16 of 19 lances, currently. I need three more. Gonna post what I've got here and see if anyone has any suggestions to fill in those last three.
Marauder II MAD-4L
Pillager PLG-4Z
Pillager PLG-5L
Pillager PLG-5L
Arrow IV Assault Vehicle
Arrow IV Assault Vehicle
Yu Huang Y-H10G
Yu Huang Y-H9G
Yu Huang Y-H9G
Yu Huang Y-H11G
Moltke M2
Moltke M2
Tian-zong TNZ-N3
Victor VTR-10L
Cataphract CTF-4L
Lao Hu LHU-4E
Pixiu Heavy Tank
Pixiu Heavy Tank
Penetrator PTR-6T
Penetrator PTR-6T
Penetrator PTR-6T
Penetrator PTR-6T
Fa Shih Squad
Fa Shih Squad
JagerMech JM7-F
JagerMech JM7-F
JagerMech JM7-F
JagerMech JM7-F
Po II Heavy Tank
Po II Heavy Tank
Lao Hu LHU-3C
Lao Hu LHU-3B
Lao Hu LHU-3B
Yao Lien YOL-4C
Kinnol MBT (PPC)
Kinnol MBT (PPC)
Yu Huang Y-H9GC
Blackjack BJ2-OB
Black Hawk-KU BHKU-OR
Yao Lien YOL-4C
Amazon [MRR] Squad
Ying Long Squad
Gunslinger GUN-2ERD
Jinggau JN-G8A
Jinggau JN-G7L
Yao Lien YOL-4C
Brutus Assault Tank (HPPC)
Zhukov Heavy Tank (Liao)
Jinggau JN-G8A
Jinggau JN-G8A
Jinggau JN-G7L
Jinggau JN-G7L
Fa Shih Squad
Fa Shih Squad
Shadow Hawk SHD-8L
Shadow Hawk SHD-8L
Shadow Hawk SHD-8L
Shadow Hawk SHD-8L
Fa Shih Squad
Fa Shih Squad
Lao Hu LHU-4E
Thunder THR-2L
Huron Warrior HUR-WO-R4O
Shockwave SKW-6H
Pixiu Heavy Tank
Pixiu Heavy Tank
Goliath GOL-3L
Eyleuka EYK-45A
Griffin GRF-5L
Huron Warrior HUR-WO-R4N
Pixiu Heavy Tank
Pixiu Heavy Tank
Huron Warrior HUR-WO-R4N
Huron Warrior HUR-WO-R4N
Huron Warrior HUR-WO-R4N
Huron Warrior HUR-WO-R4N
Tufana Hovertank (iNarc)
Tufana Hovertank (iNarc)
Men Shen MS1-O
Men Shen MS1-O
Ti Ts'ang TSG-10L
Ti Ts'ang TSG-10L
Padilla Heavy Artillery Tank
Padilla Heavy Artillery Tank
Duan Gung D9-G10
Duan Gung D9-G10
Duan Gung D9-G10
Duan Gung D9-G10
Regulator II Hovertank
Regulator II Hovertank
Dola DOL-1A1
Dola DOL-1A1
Dola DOL-1A1
Dola DOL-1A1
Hawk Moth II Gunship (MML)
Hawk Moth II Gunship (MML)
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I'm also gathering mechs and vehicles for a similar unit idea. Are you actually going to build all of these? If yes, respect!
No Ravens? I have at least one Raven II/Raven-5L team planned for mine (see ilClan Rec Guide V6.) Also, how about Catapult-IIs?
-
Is the Catapult II secretly a great 'Mech and I've just been wrongly dismissing it all these years?
-
Need more tanks... just saying.
2x Behemoth II
2x Behemoth II Support
4x Sheng Long Squads
I'd run one each in a mini lance, with BA support, you could even pull gun trailers.
TT
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Those Menshen are begging to be in a lance with BA instead of Padillas.
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Is the Catapult II secretly a great 'Mech and I've just been wrongly dismissing it all these years?
The combination of two TSEMP rolls followed by 40 LRMs gives the illusion of enemy mech shutdowns followed by automatic falls.
The reality of TSEMP is that it’s expensive BV-wise, it can only fire every other turn, it messes with your own to-hit rolls, and you probably need more than two on the board to reliably force shutdowns.
Instead of the twin TSEMP on the -L7, I prefer the dual plasma rifles on the -7L7. While shutdowns will still be rare, their heat effects can more reliably force bad things (ammo explosions, dithered targeting, slowed movement) to happen to enemy mechs, while still inflicting armor damage, while still firing every turn, and without screwing with your own targeting. Oh, and for almost 1K less in total BV2.
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Hi and Happy New Year. I have a question about the the size of Capellan Cofederation in around 3145-3151. As far as you know the number of controlled systems on sarna. net is around 217. The number is correct for this period? Or as humanely possible correct?
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Hi and Happy New Year. I have a question about the the size of Capellan Cofederation in around 3145-3151. As far as you know the number of controlled systems on sarna. net is around 217. The number is correct for this period? Or as humanely possible correct?
The 217 systems mentioned on Sarna are the size of the Confederation in 3025, before the 4th Succession War. The number appears in the first House Liao Sourcebook. It also mentions that the Confederation controls 426 inhabited planets, so almost two per system on average. Quite densely settled. In 3151, it should by quite a bit larger, given the territory taken from the FWL and FS over the last couple decades
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And while I'm here:
I was wondering, what do you guys consider to be an 'iconic' Liao unit / paint scheme? I have a couple of minis in dire need of paint and I thought I paint a couple for each of the houses. I can think of iconic schemes for the other four (Marik Militia, Lyran Guards, SoL, Davion Guards), but I'm drawing a blank at the Confederation. Death Commandos, maybe?
Preferably a unit that is around for the (late) Succession Wars and up until the modern era and in striking colors. Something you see and instantly go 'Yup, that's some Capellans right there'
Do you have any suggestions?
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And while I'm here:
I was wondering, what do you guys consider to be an 'iconic' Liao unit / paint scheme? I have a couple of minis in dire need of paint and I thought I paint a couple for each of the houses. I can think of iconic schemes for the other four (Marik Militia, Lyran Guards, SoL, Davion Guards), but I'm drawing a blank at the Confederation. Death Commandos, maybe?
Preferably a unit that is around for the (late) Succession Wars and up until the modern era and in striking colors. Something you see and instantly go 'Yup, that's some Capellans right there'
Do you have any suggestions?
The Red Lancers are a good shout. They're an elite force that's been around a long time (pretty much forever?) and have a striking color scheme in blood red and gold with black highlights.
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Battletech sure loves it's red paint. But the Red Lancers are a good idea, maybe I'll go a bit heavier on the gold to make them stand out more...
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Yeah, the Red Lancers are the "national equivalent" of those other mentioned elite units, but, the one thing I don't care for is the way they look VERY similar to the Sword of Light regiments.
I ended up going Death Commandos as my first "Cappie Lance" paint scheme just so I would have multiple "big red" units.
If your not doing 1 for each faction or something like that then I'd totally say Lancers, if you are like I was and didn't want a bunch of similar units then you might go Death Commandos or one of the various warrior houses.
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You could also go with one of the MAC's regiments, as they're pretty emblematic of the CapCon. The 5th (Kyp's Kommando) have a nice blue/gray with silver trim scheme.
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I'd suggest one of the Warrior Houses if the Red Lancers aren't your thing. Some have neat parade schemes.
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My factions project that I started with Death Commandos eventually lead to a MAC lance too, I went with 2nd Regiment.
Eventually started some Tau Ceti Rangers and one day I'd like to do Blackwind Lancers.
I usually do a Lance of mechs & sometimes up to a company of combined arms for an Op4 faction.
You can check out Camospecs.com for examples of most every faction by the pros over there.
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I mean, I'm totally biased, but personally I think Warrior House Ma-Tsu Kai has one of the most "Capellan-looking" paintschemes in the whole CCAF.
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Thanks for all the ideas! I think I'll have to test a few schemes and see what I like. First up will be the St Ives Lancers or House Ma-Tsu Kai (because I like the combination green and ivory), with the Red Lancers second.
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All this talk of paint schemes just reminded me that I never did paint up that company of House Daidachi.
Now I just have to remember where I put the minis for it. :D
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Just gonna leave this awesome rendition of the Capellan National Anthem by his Celestial Wisdom courtesy of r/battletech. ;D
https://www.reddit.com/r/battletech/comments/m7uaji/daoshen_liao_when_asked_why_he_was_invading_the/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share (https://www.reddit.com/r/battletech/comments/m7uaji/daoshen_liao_when_asked_why_he_was_invading_the/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
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Well, Daoshen Liao does have a twisted sister!
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"We're Not Gonna Take It" is perhaps not the song you want to be singing when you are in fact trying to take something. Seems a little self-defeating. ;D
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Kinda depends on whether you think it was yours in the first place doesn't it? :D :D
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I am guessing this is the best place to check....
I was looking at Capellan BattleArmor and came across the Trinity suits. Does anyone know if there is a stand alone drawing of the Ying Long ?
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I got a IWM color pic of their Ying Long.
(https://www.ironwindmetals.com/images/com_hikashop/upload/btbattlearmor/BT-009.jpg)
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I really did alway prefer the look/vibe of the Taurian and Canopian versions of the suit.
They just looked cooler
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Maybe I missed it when the book came out, but I was looking at the CCAF deployment tables in FM:3145 today and noticed most of the Capellan military academies now have a cadre unit and not just the St Ives and Sarna Acadamies, when did this happen?
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Maybe I missed it when the book came out, but I was looking at the CCAF deployment tables in FM:3145 today and noticed most of the Capellan military academies now have a cadre unit and not just the St Ives and Sarna Acadamies, when did this happen?
it's just the Sian Center for Martial Disciplines and the Liao Conservatory. It's described in the Training Academy section of the same sourcebook - the need to drastically expand the CCAF with Hidden Lion regiments required far more practical training & field experience.
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Browsing Sarna to ‘help’ fall asleep and I ended up on Sun-Tzu’s page. He’s still alive in cryo-stasis.
I wonder if when Daoshen dies (will probably be sometime soonish, he’s 80 in 3151 now) the fact that Danai is illegitimate will come out, and it will cause a power struggle that results in Sun Tzu being revived, suffering from Stone Stupidity, and losing every gain they have made.
Anyone else?
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Why would Danai be considered illegitimate?
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Why would Danai be considered illegitimate?
She is the product of incest. We have no reason to believe that taboo is any different in 3151 than it is now.
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Well the Clans exist with their own incesteous Sibkos. Alaric is a thing, his main controversy is that he's really just a vatted Freeborn with just enough Ward to count.
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She is the product of incest. We have no reason to believe that taboo is any different in 3151 than it is now.
Shhhh! Don't tell the Hapsburgs!
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Shhhh! Don't tell the Hapsburgs!
Yes to European aristocracy's practices being....eyebrow raising. Let's just say I don't think most people would approve!
"Little Johnny has come of age, darling. Let's call your brother in Austria and marry him to your niece, shall we?"
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I'm not sure illegitimacy really matters in CapCon. I'll note that Romano Liao wasn't married, Tseng Shang was just a consort (and strictly speaking not even confirmed as Sun Tzu's father).
Being Liao by blood and having political backing is more important.
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Well said, Empyrus. Acceptable is what House Liao and The Celestial Wisdom say they are. The Citizen's duty is to simply follow The State's directions. I'd say worry more for the Magistracy, but we all know the Canopians aren't exactly hung up on social norms, either.
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Well said, Empyrus. Acceptable is what House Liao and The Celestial Wisdom say they are. The Citizen's duty is to simply follow The State's directions. I'd say worry more for the Magistracy, but we all know the Canopians aren't exactly hung up on social norms, either.
So when can we have the first catgirl chancellor of the Canopian Confederation? :))
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So when can we have the first catgirl chancellor of the Canopian Confederation? :))
One or two more generations and I think we will be there
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Just in time for a Capellan Civil War.
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I was reading through FM:3145 again today and got to wondering, we know that the seven commonalities should each have two CCAF Brigades, Chesterton has none as of 3145 and both Sarna and Victoria have one each, so my question is which other currently defunct Brigades should be brought back into service to bring these numbers up?
For me i'm thinking the Chesterton Regulars will be back as one of Chesterton's and the Liao Lancers as the second Sarna one.
I'd like to see the Capellan Brigade brought back into service as well (mainly due to my love of the Shin Legion), but am stumped for the fourth.
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As Victoria Commonality dates from the reign of Sun-Tzu Liao, there's no historical brigade to restore for them. Any second Brigade for the Victoria Commonality would likely be new.
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So, Blood Will Tell. I believe Daoshen Liao is not long for this world. I've been preparing for TPTB to lay the hammer on the Confederation for a while now, but considering the presence of Danai as a character, it might not be too bad.
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I never got to th Dark Age fiction with her in it, but she seems alright. Hopefully she can hold onto something when the wolves and whoever they sucker into the fight get around to dealing with the CC.
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Anyone recall what 'Mech Blackwind Lancer's to-be-CO Warner Doles piloted? Or what 'Mechs the unit fielded?
Just on-top-of-your-head-memory, i'll be looking for my The Capellan Solution books...
EDIT Found the books and found the 'Mechs.
Trisha Smithson piloted a Victor (9K/D model i think, due to Gauss Rifle), and Warner Doles had a Grasshopper.
Need to dig a bit more though, since those 'Mechs got lost. Wonder what Warner piloted later on.
EDIT2 Looks like an Emperor.
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Anyone recall what 'Mech Blackwind Lancer's to-be-CO Warner Doles piloted? Or what 'Mechs the unit fielded?
Just on-top-of-your-head-memory, i'll be looking for my The Capellan Solution books...
EDIT Found the books and found the 'Mechs.
Trisha Smithson piloted a Victor (9K/D model i think, due to Gauss Rifle), and Warner Doles had a Grasshopper.
Need to dig a bit more though, since those 'Mechs got lost. Wonder what Warner piloted later on.
EDIT2 Looks like an Emperor.
I don't have access to my Cap Con 1985 era House Liao book, but, I want to say they gave the unit an interesting "common" set of mechs of Archer & Enforcer.
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I don't have access to my Cap Con 1985 era House Liao book, but, I want to say they gave the unit an interesting "common" set of mechs of Archer & Enforcer.
Just checked and you are spot on.
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That was mentioned on Sarna.net actually. But i figure that might not be true circa 3060 anymore.
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Just a thought, but given we are moving into the IlClan era and that the Confederation will probably be one of the Wolves first targets would bringing C3i into use for the augmented Lances make sense, even though it is associated with the blakests?
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Just a thought, but given we are moving into the IlClan era and that the Confederation will probably be one of the Wolves first targets would bringing C3i into use for the augmented Lances make sense, even though it is associated with the blakests?
Does C3I even exists anymore? From the TRO3085 I got the impression that the Republic replaced the C3I modules in their captured Blakist equipment / continued production of Blakist equpiment with the more available C3 modules.
I would guess that they should still have the technical specifications for C3I but that tech never spread wide did it? I think only Comstar and Word of Blake actually used C3I while the other states preferred their C3 modules since those modules were not compatible (if Comstar or the Word actually sold those items. I know the Combine took a look at it and refused it when Comstar unveiled the Tessen) And wouldn't a Bloohhound probe be of more use here in combination with boosted C3 or something like that?
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The FWL would probably have access to the tech as well. One or two of their designs had it at one point.
C3i would fit the augmented lance concept well, but I'm not sure the CapCon would want to produce so many designs that it would be usable across a wide range, rather than a small gimmick.
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ComStar, Word of Blake were the main users of C3i. Few mercenary units made use of the system, usually those who worked for either of the prime users, such as the 21st Centauri Lancers. Post-Jihad, the tech is essentially extinct, with the Ghost Bears experimenting with the system (but abandoning it) and the resurgent ComStar using it a bit.
Cappies have never been big on C3 systems. Currently the CapCon has seemingly moved to Boosted C3 system, though there's a major lack of Boosted Masters for that, partially because we haven't gotten RS3150NTNU which would contain at least the Yu Huang's new variant with a Boosted Master (and Clan ER PPC).
Also, lack of Boosted C3i system is a problem. Guardian-level ECM is common enough normal C3 systems are of dubious value (and that's ignoring their BV cost!).
EDIT Wait, duh. There's really few IS General or CapCon units with Boosted Slaves. Still, the fact there's supposed to be a Yu Huang with a Boosted Master kinda implies the Cappies at least intend to use that. Or perhaps the Warrior Houses like it.
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Maybe Boosted Masters mainly on omnis?
A Gun with a Boosted Master running for its life all the time looks like fun. :D
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There is a Strider with two Boosted C3 Masters.
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There is a Strider with two Boosted C3 Masters.
That's more like a relay than anything...
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Dusting off the thread, I'll pose a question.
What draws you to the Capellan Confederation, and why do you like playing them on the tabletop and in roleplay?
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When you're under attack, you never quit - you just keep hitting them back, any way you can. Even when it hurts. Even when you are losing. Even when it feels like you'll likely die. Because the alternative is giving up who you are, and they can only take that from you if you give up. Keep hitting them back, and the strongest opponent will tire. Keep hitting them back, and they'll start feeling like their attacks aren't worth it. Keep hitting them back, and they'll start looking for other options.
The Capellan Confederation is a nation that has stuck to its principles through over 700 years of continuous siege. That siege has forged a brotherhood amongst the voluntary citizenry dedicated to upholding their culture and meritocratic society, and they will surrender it to no one. I can't think of anything more admirable than that.
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Dusting off the thread, I'll pose a question.
What draws you to the Capellan Confederation, and why do you like playing them on the tabletop and in roleplay?
I have for upwards of 20 years been anti-Capellan. I just recently became a fan of them, since the KS really. I think they have some of the more unique proprietary mechs, and that their general underdog status (until recently) draws me in. Also the Big MAC. Not sure how well id do with stealth armor, but that seems cool too.
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Seeing your Bear icon, it's kind of weird you'd be so anti-Capellan. The first Bear Khan was Capellan, after all, and the familial aspects of Clan Ghost Bear aren't far from the Greater Humanity of the Korvin Doctrine. Both are meritocratic, caste based societies, both are fanatical in defending what is theirs. Both tend to rely on older, more durable & reliable designs and infantry. It'd be an eaay transition, I'd think!
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Seeing your Bear icon, it's kind of weird you'd be so anti-Capellan. The first Bear Khan was Capellan, after all, and the familial aspects of Clan Ghost Bear aren't far from the Greater Humanity of the Korvin Doctrine. Both are meritocratic, caste based societies, both are fanatical in defending what is theirs. Both tend to rely on older, more durable & reliable designs and infantry. It'd be an eaay transition, I'd think!
Maybe that’s subtly working me over too!
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I'm a new fan of the Confederation and I'm thinking of putting together a Dark Age House Ijori force. I know they had lots of battle armor and a battalion of mechs.
My question is, what is the most lore-friendly option for battle armor transport, besides the mechs themselves? I see no vehicles in the description of their organization.
Thanks!
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This answer will be a bit different based on the BA in question.
IE. Do they have MagClamps?
If the answer is no......
The Maxim is produced in the CapCon (Not sure if all variants available) that could be 3-12 tons of cargo per variant.
You also have the generic "Heavy APC" line at 6 tons of cargo each.
So that is a start.
If on the other hand they DO have MagClamps..... then any vehicle will do.
I'd say the Regulator & Pegasus hovers would be common choices for the CC units.
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The Warrior Houses are fluffed as using VTOL support and the Shun is built specifically for battle armor delivery. Depending on the era, that could be your best bet.
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VTOLs. Didn't know they used those. The Shun looks perfect.
Also maybe I can justify a few heavy APC as requisitions from another unit.
I plan to stick with Fa Shih suits as I understand they were pretty much the standard.
Thanks guys!
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I'd say "IS Standard" suits are the "Standard"
Fa Shih certainly used too, but, the OG is still the OG after all, lol.
Given your looking at "Dark Age" era, then yes, the Shun is a clear option.
I'd heard that name before but had to search it after MadCap mentioned it.
Nice design, vehicle stealth armor, TAG, very interesting.
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I'd say "IS Standard" suits are the "Standard"
Depends on the era. Definitely by the Dark Age the House specific variants are more common, & the Fa Shih was designed specifically to be the CCAF's "standard" battle armor. That said, if you aren't using the Magclamps, there are a lot of other options available - Ying Long, anyone?
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I overlooked those. In AS they are cheaper and shoot recoilless rifles equally well so I'll take mostly standard suits for riding in the Shun VTOLs. I'll save some laser-armed Fa Shih to ride on my mechs and mix it up.
I'm thinking for mechs, House Ijori might use a lot of older 3060s Capellan designs and some RAF salvage in the 3140s considering their rebirth from an insurgency movement a decade prior.
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You do know that they do build a certain 8 ton Infantry Compartmented vehicle since 3108 right?
The Zahn Heavy Transport.
Ceres Metals make them, MML-7 and enough support to make them a valued unit.
Particularly when properly supported and screened by others.
Gives you 2 to 3 Platoons of various Infantry from Foot to Jump, including BA.
TT
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I had not heard of that one. Thanks! Better than a heavy APC for sure.
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The Zahn Heavy Transport.
The Sleipnir APC (SRM) is a cheaper alternative to the Zahn. It’s not from Liao space, but from over the border in the worlds of the Aurigan Coalition. Also wheeled, 5/8 movement but using cheaper ICE over fuel cells. A few tons lighter armor but still a solid seven tons, and it fits in a light vehicle bay. 12 SRMs hit harder than the 7 MMLs of the Zahn, and two tons of ammo retain some of the same flexibility. The infantry bay is only four tons, but that’s enough for the medium BA (IS Standard, Fa Shih, Amazon, or Trinity/Yin Long) squads in use by the CCAF. And if you ignore the TacOps rule on BA weight, it’s enough for heavy and assault squads, too.
Potentially a good option for an up-and-coming Warrior House that is resource- and/or equipment-constrained.
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Thanks, I'll definitely consider it!
Oddly enough I see Gnome battle suits on the MUL for CCAF/dark age. Those would have to be purchases from Clan Sea Fox, right?
I'm thinking a rebuilding House Ijori would have mostly Fa shih (mentioned in the novel about their origins if I recall) and IS standard.
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Seeing your Bear icon, it's kind of weird you'd be so anti-Capellan. The first Bear Khan was Capellan, after all, and the familial aspects of Clan Ghost Bear aren't far from the Greater Humanity of the Korvin Doctrine. Both are meritocratic, caste based societies, both are fanatical in defending what is theirs. Both tend to rely on older, more durable & reliable designs and infantry. It'd be an eaay transition, I'd think!
I found this amusing as the Ghost Bears are among the Clans i don't like at all really, but i am a Cappie fan.
Then again, the Ghost Bears have never held underdog status, and unlike the Cappies, they tend to be passive as heck. I mean, the Cappies are usually the punching bag, or on the offensive, nothing between...
Oddly enough I see Gnome battle suits on the MUL for CCAF/dark age. Those would have to be purchases from Clan Sea Fox, right?
Most likely. And probably a result of MechWarrior Dark Age featuring the Gnome BA for the CapCon, which makes me mildy surprised the Salamander isn't available to Cappies.
CapCon seems to be the only IS faction without any kind of native Clan-tech production yet, but by numbers, they don't seem to be that big in buying stuff either. To be sure, there's variety of Clan stuff in the Inner Sphere General list but beyond that, few options.
Interestingly, the CapCon is among the few Inner Sphere factions to use the Grand Summoner (Thor II), Ebon Jaguar, Coyotls, Lupus, and few others, at least by the Dark Age. Makes for somewhat unique mix of 'Mechs, since most CapCon designs are rather exclusive.
For armament, Kingston ER PPCs are specifically mentioned as being ordered for the Yinghuochong and used also for Yu Huang Y-H12GC (which unfortunately lacks record sheet like all 3150NTNU stuff).
Since CapCon never really agreed to Stone's disarmament policies, i wonder if Cappies chose to focus on mostly Inner Sphere technology in "quantity has a quality of its own" way? ClanTech may be somewhat more expensive after all, and R&D budgets were probably spent on developing easier to produce Spheroid equipment.
As seen with the fall of the Republic, high technology may not mean much in the long run.
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I found this amusing as the Ghost Bears are among the Clans i don't like at all really, but i am a Cappie fan.
Honestly? I don't care for them either. Just noting there are a fair amount of societal similarities. The Bears lose me because Clan society as a whole does not appeal to me, & I also don't care for their very passive, yet opportunistic character. Anything worth caring about is worth doing zealously! ;D
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I would like the Rasalhague, just not the Ghost Bears. Too bad there's no, heck, there never was credible resistance movement against them.
Anyway, some Cappie 'Mech talk.
New 'Mechs from RecGuides. So far, we've gotten the Lightning (seems nice, fast, big guns, simple), Urbie variant, Raven variant. What else? Adopted the Republic Cataphract variant but... man, not sure what they were thinking. At least their Wolverine 10R is pretty nice.
Technically i suppose the Stinger 6R and Locust 7V may count as i think their factory is within CC territory but due to their universal spread... well, whatever.
The Black Knight 18-KNT, Awesome 11H, and Cauldron-Born seem to be the most notable imported 'Mechs.
Did i miss something or is that all so far? To be clear, i don't mind lacking large numbers.
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CapCon seems to be the only IS faction without any kind of native Clan-tech production yet, but by numbers, they don't seem to be that big in buying stuff either. To be sure, there's variety of Clan stuff in the Inner Sphere General list but beyond that, few options.
Interestingly, the CapCon is among the few Inner Sphere factions to use the Grand Summoner (Thor II), Ebon Jaguar, Coyotls, Lupus, and few others, at least by the Dark Age. Makes for somewhat unique mix of 'Mechs, since most CapCon designs are rather exclusive.
For armament, Kingston ER PPCs are specifically mentioned as being ordered for the Yinghuochong and used also for Yu Huang Y-H12GC (which unfortunately lacks record sheet like all 3150NTNU stuff).
Since CapCon never really agreed to Stone's disarmament policies, i wonder if Cappies chose to focus on mostly Inner Sphere technology in "quantity has a quality of its own" way? ClanTech may be somewhat more expensive after all, and R&D budgets were probably spent on developing easier to produce Spheroid equipment.
As seen with the fall of the Republic, high technology may not mean much in the long run.
I'm assuming this is because the CapCon took the decision to not rely on production from outside of the state as they wouldn't want to be in a position where their best units are hamstrung due unreliable supply lines.
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I would like the Rasalhague, just not the Ghost Bears. Too bad there's no, heck, there never was credible resistance movement against them.
Anyway, some Cappie 'Mech talk.
New 'Mechs from RecGuides. So far, we've gotten the Lightning (seems nice, fast, big guns, simple), Urbie variant, Raven variant. What else? Adopted the Republic Cataphract variant but... man, not sure what they were thinking. At least their Wolverine 10R is pretty nice.
Technically i suppose the Stinger 6R and Locust 7V may count as i think their factory is within CC territory but due to their universal spread... well, whatever.
The Black Knight 18-KNT, Awesome 11H, and Cauldron-Born seem to be the most notable imported 'Mechs.
Did i miss something or is that all so far? To be clear, i don't mind lacking large numbers.
Also get the Republic designed Thunderbolt-12R, hopefully it'll get a proper Capellan re-design.
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Also get the Republic designed Thunderbolt-12R, hopefully it'll get a proper Capellan re-design.
Oh, right, that thing. Wonder what stuff Republic designers are snorting, trading useful Stealth Armor for Reflective in case of the Cataphract, and slowing down the T-bolt and slathering Reflective armor to it...
Okay, a lot of Republic stuff is mighty fine, and i would like to see many getting adopted. It is just that these two cases are in the questionable category, IMO.
As for a Capellan re-design, i don't think one is really needed. The -7S model is a fine update to the original, maybe not perfect and not Capellan exclusive but neither is a major issue to me.
(Re-engining the 12R with XL engine allows returning it to 4/6 speed with no other changes.)
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Actually... I keep disparaging the CTF-5L and TDR-12R but at the same time, i find them extremely appealing. They're so very... quirky.
Honestly makes me kinda want to build yet another Capellan unit, use those two in it, perhaps in a command lance.
I already got three companies of Cappies, what's one more? (Granted, they're still sitting un-painted.)
Figure a McCarron's Armored Cavalry company would round out my forces nicely.
Need to give this some thought.
Wish the Lightning and Thunder had plastic minis.
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What are the other three companies?
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What are the other three companies?
House Hiritsu
Probably Red Lancers
Probably 2nd St. Ives Lancers
Judging by my notes, i've been toying with the idea of replacing Red Lancers with some BigMac company, probably due to painting. But i would like Dark Age BigMac so might stick with Red Lancers.
For the St. Ives Lancers, i'm considering Blackwind Lancers as an alternate option, but the fact they get destroyed in the Jihad means i probably won't go through with this plan. Plus i think the paint scheme would be a bit too close to the Alliance i've already done.
Figure these would cover various CapCon units pretty nicely.
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1 thought is to drop off 1 of those companies to do 3 different lances instead. (or 2 companies)
That way you can tailor some of the Minis to match the era.
So if someone is destroyed in the clan invasion you can give them just SW era models.
Someone created in the post Jihad era? Give them any of your newest models that are from Jihad+ TROs.
My own Liao force ideas is Lances of DeathCommandos, Tau Ceti Rangers, Blackwind Lancers, & Tikonov Republican Guards.
With full Company & conventional units as Big Mac.
At least that is the plan if I ever finish them all, for now its like 4 DC, 6 Big Mac & a single TCR mech done w/ nothing finished for the Lancers/Guards, lol.
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I have company and lance rosters and variants picked out already, it is just a matter of deciding paint schemes. These are designed around tech and options circa 3062. These work fine for Dark Age games too (i don't really play anything else), with some variant changes. I don't do smaller units than companies, as that way i have many options for smaller games while keeping units consistent looking.
My biggest issue with the Red Lancers is that i don't like doing three-color schemes beyond camos, on the account of required care. I can do it though.
Primary alternatives are House Imarra, House Lu Sann and Death Commandos.
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Actually... I keep disparaging the CTF-5L and TDR-12R but at the same time, i find them extremely appealing. They're so very... quirky.
There's nothing really wrong with these designs besides that they need to be screened against melee units. An accompanying platoon of Shen Longs could probably do the job wonderfully.
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Think my bigger problem is with the CTF-5L. Really, from the 4L, a stealth sniper, to reflec armor with somewhat dubious close range armament.
In the context of CCAF it is fine as an option. But the RotS not adopting a superb stealth 'Mech...
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Did the Tikonov facility ever switch to the 4L? Consider that the Word of Blake took Tikonov over and then the Republic.... Do we know if they could get enough stealth armor imported?
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Did the Tikonov facility ever switch to the 4L? Consider that the Word of Blake took Tikonov over and then the Republic.... Do we know if they could get enough stealth armor imported?
Pretty sure that one did construct the 4L, which is also available for the WoB. Plus the RG entry for thhe Cataphract 5L explicitly refers it as evolution of the 4L.
Logistics may be a reason for the change to be sure, perhaps the RotS didn't have enough stealth armor. They did manufactured the Bolla, so they have access to it. Though i'd assume the armor was manufactured on Tikonov, but i guess it is not impossible it is produced on Sian or some other Capellan planet.
(Of course, IRL, the 4L is not WYSIWYG so a new variant was needed.)
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Here's another question to bounce off you guys: What do you not like about the Capellan Confederation? What would you change if you had the chance? Feel free to be honest, the Mask is not watching this thread, citizens.
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Here's another question to bounce off you guys: What do you not like about the Capellan Confederation? What would you change if you had the chance? Feel free to be honest, the Mask is not watching this thread, citizens.
Recent leadership. Since the game started, Chancellors have been mostly on the nutty/weak spectrum (Maximillian, Romano, and Daoshen). Sun-Tzu was very competent in making the most of little to work with, but he didn’t fundamentally change the Confederation’s sharper flaws. I’d love to see a smart reformer in the mode of Theodore Kurita. Danai is a good military leader, but the Confederation needs better statesmen. Dunno the long-term implications of the whole Caleb rape thing...
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Here's another question to bounce off you guys: What do you not like about the Capellan Confederation? What would you change if you had the chance? Feel free to be honest, the Mask is not watching this thread, citizens.
The Mask. Well, internally anyway. Maskirovka means military deception. Suitable for intelligence agency to be sure, since intelligence and deception go hand in hand. But turning that stuff to internal matters...
Not big on secret polices. Figure CapCon has pretty damn good carrots in its system, it doesn't really need sticks.
Though i suppose it could be worse. Could be Combine level stuff.
Also question the caste system in many ways. As it is, i figure the servitor caste is especially problematic. It causes problems even when liberating historically and culturally Capellan worlds, and is worse when conquered worlds' populations are placed to servitor caste. And i don't say this from moral perspective, but purely pragmatic one. Inefficient and increases risk of resistance, requires additional resources from the Mask, etc etc. Lighter touch can work just fine, and there are other methods to turn people to see value in the Capellan system.
Figure Sun-Tzu realized this, but Daoshen stopped any reforms even if those weren't overturned.
CapCon also has perhaps somewhat excessively revanchist attitudes, in a sense stuck in the past. I mean, something like the Chesterton worlds. 500 years under the FedSuns... they ain't Capellan anymore. They weren't really Capellan when they were annexed by the FedSuns, as the CapCon did not even exists then, even if the original constituent polities were around.
I find it questionable use of military power to bother going after them after all this time. Sure, it worked but i question its worth. Especially since there's targets like the Republic of the Sphere, and now the Clans are close enough... the FedSuns campaigns may have been waste of people, money, materiel, etc.
I'll grant that pretty much everyone in the Inner Sphere does make similar mistakes, but the Chesterton situation feels like an extreme example.
Also not sure about the current drive toward Terra. Reclaiming the actually Capellan worlds the Word of Blake and then Republic annexed? Sure. But going further... risky risky risky. It has been a good run, and i figure it could be far safer and better for the CapCon to stop and consolidate rather than push even more.
The current merc hiring freeze. Why? Being victorious means mercenaries are more trustworthy, and using them may speed up attaining goals and whatever else. As well as stuff is going, there's always a very real chance of sudden setbacks and reversals, mercs could help there. And the CapCon has a long history of hiring mercs, this timing feels especially odd.
Yeah sure, it sounds better when all victories are done by Capellan forces without help from mercs, but letting that go to your head is so dangerous. Cool head, pragmatic attitude is needed, not just national pride or zeal. CapCon needs more leaders who remember that. Unfortunately Daoshen seems to have some screws loose, though i suppose he could be way worse.
CapCon could embrace other than Chinese culture a bit more too. And instead of looking so much into past, why not make it about Capellan culture. In meta-sense, getting mostly Chinese-styled and named stuff gets a bit boring. I mean, look at the Ghost Bears and their obsession with bears and... well, not ghosts but skulls are close enough.
(Again, other Inner Sphere nations are pretty much as guilty of this. Would say same about them.)
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CapCon also has perhaps somewhat excessively revanchist attitudes, in a sense stuck in the past.
If you take away the Capellan Confederation's utter unwillingess to EVER let someone take what's theirs and get away with it, how much of the faction's character would you have invalidated right there? Never forgetting, never forgiving, and never giving up are the essential hallmarks of the Capellan Confederation.
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CapCon could embrace other than Chinese culture a bit more too. And instead of looking so much into past, why not make it about Capellan culture. In meta-sense, getting mostly Chinese-styled and named stuff gets a bit boring. I mean, look at the Ghost Bears and their obsession with bears and... well, not ghosts but skulls are close enough.
This is a big one for me; I'd like to see a more independent culture come about without such a heavy fixation on a single historical source. The Xin Sheng movement worked in more ways than just culture, but I think something new could have been accomplished instead of mimicking the Kuritan fixation on certain aspects of Japan.
Which then prompts the question, what would an original, descended-from-the-Warsaw-Pact-ish Capellan culture look like? Granted the Tikonov region spends good chunks of game-time in foreign hands, either FS or RotS, but its influences could have spread in the meantime. I admit to being more of a fan of Russian and other North Slavic peoples' culture than Chinese, but that's my personal bias.
But back to the question of a Capellan culture, what would such a thing look like? Obviously there'd be a lot of pressure socially to do things for the state, and I can picture a general draft into conventional military forces with social rewards for those who serve. What kind of theater do they prefer? What kinds of music gets popular in the nation? Is there anime? What would be traditional "ethnic" attire, and how often is it celebrated? How much does it look like life on Airstrip One? What kind of foods are considered traditional?
I suppose there's "room for all" under the banner, but it feels like the heavy Chinese bent that Sun Tzu started drove out all the other cultural aspects, in the same way the Kuritans drove out most non-Japanese culture. I'd like to see more amalgamation, in that regard, myself.
If you take away the Capellan Confederation's utter unwillingess to EVER let someone take what's theirs and get away with it, how much of the faction's character would you have invalidated right there? Never forgetting, never forgiving, and never giving up are the essential hallmarks of the Capellan Confederation.
"What was ever once Capellan is ever always Capellan"
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Need to ponder the Capellan culture question a bit. Ain't easy, short answers for that.
Never forgetting, never forgiving, and never giving up are the essential hallmarks of the Capellan Confederation.
The first two of those have never been part of what attracts me to CapCon. At all.
Never giving up, sure, that works. But i don't interpret that as it being necessary to pursue utterly stupid ideas, such as reclaiming something that never was.
Someone conquering places, such as happened during 4th SW? No, no giving up, they will be retaken. The Xing Shen campaign was that. Pursuing Chesterton worlds which never were part of CapCon and haven't been even close for some 500 years? This is just stupidity, waste of energy, focus, resources, everything.
One thing that really struck me when i read The Capellan Solution so long ago was a thought of Sun-Tzu's, most certainly biased and probably somewhat inaccurate thought, that the Periphery nations care a lot of more about territory than people. Reclaiming Capellan worlds isn't about the world, places themselves. It is heritage, people who are, most likely identify Capellan. A world that isn't Capellan... reclaiming that is waste. Nothing is gained. It is not giving up, because there's nothing to give up on. And the fact is that after hundreds of years stuff stops being Capellan or whatever else. Change is inevitable, ignoring that is a folly.
Besides, CapCon is capable of forgiving and forgetting. Andurien and Magistracy have been enemies of Cappies at times. Now, allies.
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Given what's going on beyond the Confederations borders they would be better off consolidating the gains made since 3132 and exploring the possibilities of integrating the Magistracy of Canopus and Duchy of Andurien into the Confederation, the Canopus and Andurien Commonalities have a nice ring to them.
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Given what's going on beyond the Confederations borders they would be better off consolidating the gains made since 3132 and exploring the possibilities of integrating the Magistracy of Canopus and Duchy of Andurien into the Confederation, the Canopus and Andurien Commonalities have a nice ring to them.
A merger needs to be done slowly and carefully, if at all. And dubbing those places Commonalities would lead to locals feeling being conquered. We're talking about nations with long historories and distinct cultures. I would assume MoC people are quite fine with an alliance, but being part of another nation is another matter.
And going about a merger in equal way is really difficult. The MoC is very liberal and equal place, while the CapCon has caste system, figure these cannot be hybridized, and change in either nation could be problematic. Say, if the CapCon dropped the system, higher castes could end up rebelling because they lose their privileges.
I will point out what happened with the FedCom. It wasn't just the Lyran half that felt they were taken over by Davions, FedSuns people felt they ended up taking care of some distant foreigners.
Might be smarter to create a supra-national organization in vein of the Star League except tailored for these members only. Cement the Trinity Alliance as a real thing.
Or just seek ever stronger alliance without formal creation of any supra-national body.
Also, just being pragmatic, if the Duchy of Andurien screws up, that's on them. If "Greater Capellan Confederation" screws up... And as long as the Duchy is independent, it works as a buffer state between the FWL and CapCon.
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Sharing my CapCon companies that i've planned and have minis for, just need to get around assembling and painting.
In this list, all variants are set circa 3062, maybe few years later in some cases. Roles and formations are designated based on those. I don't use formation rules, these are just for neat looking organization on paper.
For actual games, i'll just pick units from within a company, and variants based on tech and whim up to BV limit.
* designates OmniMechs.
House Hiritsu:
Note that Striker and Cavalry lance are rules-wise same thing, here Strikers are faster while Cavalry are only 5/8 movers.
Striker lance:
Wraith Medium TR1 Skirmisher
Ti Ts'ang Heavy TSG-9H Skirmisher
Cicada Medium CDA-3M Striker
Trebuchet Medium TBT-7M Missile Boat
Command lance:
Charger Assault CGR-3K Skirmisher
Catapult Heavy CPLT-C1 Missile Boat
Raven Light RVN-3L/4L Scout
Vindicator Medium VND-3L/4L Brawler/Skirmisher
Cavalry lance:
Thunder Heavy THR-1L Skirmisher
Jinggau Heavy JN-G8A Skirmisher
Huron Warrior Medium HUR-WO-R4L Skirmisher
Snake Medium SNK-1V Striker
Red Lancers/House Imarra/House Lu Sann/Death Commandos:
Have yet to decide which one this is.
EDIT Red Lancers or Lu Sann. Leaning toward the latter due to it having only two primary colors. Plus they look good.
EDIT Turns out Lu Sann is currently non-existent. Well, damn. House Imarra without gold perhaps, or just very very little of it...
Command lance:
Men Shen Medium MS1-O* Striker
Yu Huang Assault Y-H9G Skirmisher
Catapult Heavy CPLT-C1/C2 Missile Boat
Raven Light RVN-3L/4L Scout
Assault lance:
Atlas Assault AS7-K Sniper
Stalker Assault STK-5M Juggernaut
Cataphract Heavy CTF-3L Sniper
Cataphract Heavy CTF-3L Sniper
Probe/Fire lance:
Sha Yu Medium SYU-2B Sniper
Anubis Light ABS-3L Missile Boat
Lao Hu Heavy LHU-2B Skirmisher
Duan Gung Light D9-G9 Missile Boat
St. Ives Lancers:
Probably going for 2nd St. Ives Lancers.
The Guillotine is a bit unusual but because i'm scrapping my planned Star League unit, i moved the Guillotine here to replace a Cossack. This also allowed somewhat better organization.
Battle lance:
Blackjack Omni Medium BJ2-O Brawler*
Blackjack Medium BJ-3 Brawler
Helios Heavy HEL-3D Skirmisher
Guillotine Heavy GLT-4L/5M Skirmisher
Assault lance:
Sunder Assault SD1-O Brawler*
Victor Assault VTR-9D/9K Skirmisher
Pillager Assault PLG-3Z Juggernaut
Catapult Heavy CPLT-C4C? Missile Boat
Support lance:
Avatar Heavy AV1-O Brawler*
Firestarter Light FS9-S/S1 Scout
Vindicator Medium VND-1SIC Brawler
Black Hawk-KU Heavy BHKU-O Skirmisher*
I may expand these later on to combined arms battalions with vehicles and battle armor (and/or conventional infantry).
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Reclaiming Capellan worlds isn't about the world, places themselves.
On the contrary, the world belongs to the people who are one with the State. Even if not one person remains on a world claiming Capellan nationality, that doesn't erase the Capellan people's right to what was wrongfully taken from them. Squatters are simply an accessory to theft. Were they never stolen, they would remain Capellan. Once liberated, Capellans will live their once again because they will have the use of what was always rightfully theirs.
There are not multiple separate peoples of this or that planet - there is one Capellan people, the worlds of the Confederation are theirs collectively, and that which was broken must be made whole.
Besides, CapCon is capable of forgiving and forgetting. Andurien and Magistracy have been enemies of Cappies at times. Now, allies.
A crime atoned for is not one forgotten, and just because the Confederation is not pursuing redress of an outstanding crime by active force of arms does not mean it isn't being pursued, and cannot be pursued by other means. Andurien is a Capellan world and the Confederation will pursue its return, by one means or another. No need to drop a Brigade of 'Mechs on the Humphreys's palace if they might yet see the error of their ways.
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Andurien is a Capellan world and the Confederation will pursue its return, by one means or another.
This makes me wonder, is there a map of the Confederation at its height? Something that shows what's rightfully Capellan clay by dint of "at one point this belonged to us."
And what of worlds that are conquered that were never Capellan to begin with (such as New Syrtis)?
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This makes me wonder, is there a map of the Confederation at its height? Something that shows what's rightfully Capellan clay by dint of "at one point this belonged to us."
CC 2750 map is about largest extent of CapCon ever:
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/File:CC-2750.png
Strictly speaking there were some "gains" from the Hegemony after the First Succession War, but... weren't those worlds pretty much rubble by the time the Star League collapsed, thanks to Amaris? If not, they'd be soon enough because everyone liked to fight over Hegemony worlds.
Of course, all this cost bunch of worlds on both FS and FWL borders. Great going there, Chancellors.
EDIT Might've been "net positive" against the FedSuns, not sure.
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And what of worlds that are conquered that were never Capellan to begin with (such as New Syrtis)?
New Syrtis is back in FedSuns hands, and the narrow salient that led to it's occupation was clearly never meant to be held long-term. Sometimes you simply must go into the vipers' nest to cut off heads & root out the threat. There remain a few Capellan worlds unreclaimed on the FedSuns front such as Bell & Lee, but nearly all the major worlds have been reclaimed on that front.
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Since we're apparently musing on redemption arcs for the Cataphract 5L and Thunderbolt 12R, have opinions softened any on the Raven 5L? I recall it being received pretty negatively.
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Since we're apparently musing on redemption arcs for the Cataphract 5L and Thunderbolt 12R, have opinions softened any on the Raven 5L? I recall it being received pretty negatively.
I still have somewhat mixed feelings on it. Better speed is appreciated as this has always been the Raven's big weakness. Worse scout (no active probe). Worse combatant in general too, due to very limited missiles. The iNarc's good, nice to see it getting some use.
The thing about the Cataphract and T-bolt variants is that they're weird and quirky which makes them interesting. The Raven is more of a straight side-upgrade. Err, side-grade. Not-quite-vertical-upgrade?
Some specific issues as i see them:
-The Angel ECM is a mistake here, IMO. Considering the Raven has nothing that particularly requires it to be running without Stealth, the Angel gets wasted easily, or stealth armor gets wasted*. A Guardian would save half a ton, for CASE if nothing else, or that half a ton could be valuable with additional changes. Naturally this would be mitigated if one uses TacOps extra ECM rules, in which case the Angel offers Guardian and stealth-armor benefits at once. (But i'm not one to use those for sake of simplicity and speed, and because that way i only need BMM open.)
-The one-shot SRM-2s are problematic. The good speed kinda makes them useful for backstabbing, yet the 'Mechs nature as a support unit indicates specialty munitions (not counting Narc-equipped ones as specialty munitions, figure they're the default essentially) might be in order. And their limited nature means one may end up hoarding them for the perfect opportunity. Also, under standard rules, alternate munition options are extremely limited. Infernos are OK, but though SRM-2 Inferno effectiveness is somewhat low; Fragmentation missiles are too specialized against conventional infantry to be generally useful (depending on your table of, course), and this covered non-Narc and non-Artemis options. As for TacOps options, ARADs can be good but because their benefits don't stack with iNarc pods (ARADs are more useful with standard Narc pods), they're of limited usefulness in this case. Tandem-charges are good, Smoke depends on whether smoke rules are in play. Others i find too rule-intensive or just not worth it.
-In some ways the speed is excessive, perhaps. 7/11 would free enough weight, combined with using just Guardian ECM, to carry a SRM-6 with a ton of ammo. And since the iNarc and TAG are the primary tools here, i figure 7/11 speed is enough, especially for the iNarc thanks to its increased range. Further tweaks could've bought a supercharger perhaps.
-Amusing missed opportunity: Guardian would've allowed using two iOS MML-3s instead of 3xiOS SRM-2. Better? Maybe not, but would've allowed LRM special munition options.
And finally, i find the lack of active probe to be an annoyance. Not because it is useful, but because the Raven II isn't actually that great scout. It is expensive thanks to the TSEMP, it is slower, and it has stealth too. Active probes cannot be used with stealth, and Bloodhound rules, which the Raven II carries, specifically note that it cannot be used while stealthed even though it defeats normal ECM. (Well, at least TacOps rules say so, BMM doesn't make note of this, need to go ask clarification for that.) And using the TSEMP disables the Bloodhound for the next round, though i grant it is unlikely you need the probe after initial contact, unless one is using active probe enhanced targeting rules.
In a sense, the Raven 5L would be better suited for carrying an active probe. No comment on how to fit it.
This all said, using both 'Mechs at once makes for potent EWAR unit, as the RG6 pretty much notes.
Anyway, despite this all apparent negativity, i'm fine with the Raven 5L. It does offer an interesting alternative despite its limitations.
*Funny thing: the FedSuns Vulpes has stealth armor, and that actually lowers its BV cost. Because of heat calculations. But it is an extreme edge case.
EDIT ended up writing more than i expected. Figure i might almost copy-paste this to my Raven MotW once i get around finish updating it, work in progress...
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Given what's going on beyond the Confederations borders they would be better off consolidating the gains made since 3132 and exploring the possibilities of integrating the Magistracy of Canopus and Duchy of Andurien into the Confederation, the Canopus and Andurien Commonalities have a nice ring to them.
I doubt the people of the Magistracy would welcome their Capellan overlords with open arms even if they have the Centrella name. The Magistracy already had riots during the Victoria War when the Magestrix stripped several border worlds of ther garrisons and the Marians came in taking loot and slaves. Thraxa and Vixen split from the Magistracy because of that. Don't forget that the inhabitants of the Periphery cherish their freedoms very much. Though maybe Danai will unite them from the simple fact that their current leaders have no heirs (though for the Centrellas what about the descendants of Erde Centreally? they could technically rule the Magistracy). And if the Confederation would accept a half Canopian as ruler might be also worthy of discussion if you think how Ilsa was "confined" to rule the Magistracy while her younger borther Daoshen got the Confederation.
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The iNarc is definitely the big "oooh" of the 5L to me, even though the Confederation already imports the beautiful Tufana variant.
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Here's another question to bounce off you guys: What do you not like about the Capellan Confederation? What would you change if you had the chance? Feel free to be honest, the Mask is not watching this thread, citizens.
The excessive forcing of Mandarin Chinese into everything Capellan. Sort of in-universe and OOC. The translations and transliterations are usually shaky, and it was more fun and easier to refer to ranks like Subcommander or Force Leader than Sao-wei or Yi-si-ben-bing. It's also funky since Chancellor or the name of the nation isn't changed. I liked the Capellans as they were, a new culture that was amalgamated from a half dozen states, rather than Space China. There was a charm to older fluff still having many Chinese influenced things that were referred to as "Capellan" because, hey, it's 1000 years in the future and in space and now people associate certain things with this civilization. But the blatant naming of almost all new mechs something in a clunky translation of Mandarin, well I'm sorry if the Maskirovka rounds me up because it's just not something I'm a fan of.
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The excessive forcing of Mandarin Chinese into everything Capellan. Sort of in-universe and OOC. The translations and transliterations are usually shaky, and it was more fun and easier to refer to ranks like Subcommander or Force Leader than Sao-wei or Yi-si-ben-bing. It's also funky since Chancellor or the name of the nation isn't changed. I liked the Capellans as they were, a new culture that was amalgamated from a half dozen states, rather than Space China. There was a charm to older fluff still having many Chinese influenced things that were referred to as "Capellan" because, hey, it's 1000 years in the future and in space and now people associate certain things with this civilization. But the blatant naming of almost all new mechs something in a clunky translation of Mandarin, well I'm sorry if the Maskirovka rounds me up because it's just not something I'm a fan of.
:thumbsup:
Indeed, I loved the strange hodgepodge of Russian, Scottish, Chinese and other cultures coming together.
I very much disliked the 'nationalization' in the later 3050s/3060s. The Capellans becoming Chinese, the Lyrans becoming German, and what was left of the non-Japanese elements in the Combine gone...
Altough I exaggerate a bit, I still liked the old 3025 mixup better.
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at least with the capellans they gave an excuse, with their "cultural revolution" Xin Sheng movement.. the other states becoming more ethnically styled just sorta happened around the same time, with no real justification given.
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:thumbsup:
Indeed, I loved the strange hodgepodge of Russian, Scottish, Chinese and other cultures coming together.
Unfortunately, a large part of the Russian and Scottish elements ran away.
(joking aside, I agree.)
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Given that CapCon has "Haappajarvi" (which i presume is meant to be misspelled "Haapajärvi"), i'm thinking there's even a Finnish minority in CapCon, even if most Nordic colonization involved the Rasalhague space.
Err, or at least was, that place spends a lot of time in FedSuns territory...
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Given that CapCon has "Haappajarvi" (which i presume is meant to be misspelled "Haapajärvi"), i'm thinking there's even a Finnish minority in CapCon, even if most Nordic colonization involved the Rasalhague space.
Err, or at least was, that place spends a lot of time in FedSuns territory...
There is a weird Scandinavian/Nordic divide. Scandinavians (Swedes, Norskis and Danes) are Nordic, but not all Nordics (Finns, Faroes, and some other odds and ends) are Scandinavian. It was pointed out to me by a proud Finn while I was living in Denmark.
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There is a weird Scandinavian/Nordic divide. Scandinavians (Swedes, Norskis and Danes) are Nordic, but not all Nordics (Finns, Faroes, and some other odds and ends) are Scandinavian. It was pointed out to me by a proud Finn while I was living in Denmark.
Not 100% sure but i think that may be partially because Scandinavia is a geographic area that does not include Finland.
There's also that we Finns are distinct from Germanic cultures. Nordic countries come from common values and history, Finland was under Swedish rule for hundreds of years.
Anyway, this popped into my mind because i just remember Haappajarvi specifically because the misspelling irks me so much. Spelled improperly it doesn't roll of tongue properly... we don't usually use double-P, i think.
I need to re-read the culture and languages section from HBHL, need to figure what other cultures CapCon officially has.
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I know Stackpole played up the Russian bit with Pavel Ridzik, and the area around Northwind has the Scottish vibe. I've read the old House Book a few times through but nothing else comes to mind.
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Gah, really need to read the book. For example, quick search indicates there ain't mentions of languages spoken in the CapCon. Also need to read the original house book.
Then again, given that in some ways CapCon is one of the most radically structured nations in the Inner Sphere, it seems plausible most of its origin cultures have vanished, subsumed into a Capellan culture, as ill-defined as that is. The Tikonov region is perhaps an exception with its strong Slavic heritage.
Kinda feels like Xin Sheng was created as a symbol more so than promoting a culture per se. A nationalist resurgence could be done without, or with invented symbol, but it is in some ways easier to pick something from past, and it helps that it ties to Liaos who have been Capellan leaders since the very beginning.
Interestingly, where the Draconis Combine adopted sorta theme-land version of Samurai bushido, to the point it is even a detriment at times, the CapCon never started emulating ancient Chinese warfare or anything like that. Han culture is used in art and symbols, and Chinese is used in ranks and names, but at the same time this is somewhat superficial. Though in case of noble titles, its use has long history certainly.
Had Tikonov been part of CapCon when Xin Sheng began, i do wonder if Sun-Tzu might've chosen Russian or Slavic cultures as the focus instead?
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I think he focused more on Chinese beacuse in the Cinese culture there is also a strong believe in the wheel of time. Take a look at the Chinese empires. China had several states then they united broke up united again broke again and then united again. This makes Xin sheng (Rebirth) like a mirror of said culture: the Confederation was beaten down and lost parts to "sub states" (The Compact and the Tikonov Republic) but then rebirthed and reconquered worlds they lost. then came the Jihad and they got beaten by the Republic to rise again in the Dark Age. Though this also implies that the next downfall is around the corner.
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Oh, interesting concept.
I do wonder about the next downfall though. Hopefully it will be more interesting and nuanced the 4th Succession War. The ilClan will reign supreme to be sure so there's some kind of downfall, but what kind of matters.
I do kinda wish CapCon could return to the underdog status. The part when one starts rising up is the interesting part.
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Oh, interesting concept.
I do wonder about the next downfall though. Hopefully it will be more interesting and nuanced the 4th Succession War. The ilClan will reign supreme to be sure so there's some kind of downfall, but what kind of matters.
I do kinda wish CapCon could return to the underdog status. The part when one starts rising up is the interesting part.
You never know--but I think we're about to see the CapCon take a couple on the chin. Could be internal strife between Daoshen and Danai. Could be tussling with the ilClan. I don't think their Inner Sphere neighbors in the FedSuns or FWL pose too much of a threat--but jumping into Terra looks like a mistake right now.....
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I like the capcon of old. with designs called Vindicator and the like. Stuff I could understand. When TPTB changed stuff to pseudo-chinese I lost interest in any mechs they were producing and all of them are just a blob on 2 legs and a pair of guns on the arms to me.
And this in a faction that plays in a style of play that I actually ENJOY.
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but jumping into Terra looks like a mistake right now.....
You don't say.
Though there might be value in a pre-emptive strike, as even without going to Terra, i would bet that the Star League will come demanding submission, and Daoshen at least will say no, no matter what. Danai, she might be yield as she doesn't have Daoshen's ego, though she might also figure that though yielding would be actually smart, various levels of CapCon society might not accept that.
Of course, if there will be an attack on Terra, that has a lot of problems. First, it is kind of a big deal for the Clans, they will defend it strongly. Second, the Clans have quite few WarShips, last i recall about Cappies is that they've got... think only one? One got destroyed few years ago. Third, are the current Capellan forces, though battle hardened, match to the Clans?
Not doing that strike, consolidating positions might buy time for... well, that is a question as we don't know how the new Star League will function really. Since it is really based on Crusader values, i'm thinking it will be more of conquest than anything else but the Inner Sphere is large so there might be place for negotiating.
But regardless of that, any bets how Daoshen will go?
Gauss slug?
Elemental claw (or gun)?
Assassinated?
Heart attack?
Stairs?
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I like the capcon of old. with designs called Vindicator and the like. Stuff I could understand. When TPTB changed stuff to pseudo-chinese I lost interest in any mechs they were producing and all of them are just a blob on 2 legs and a pair of guns on the arms to me.
And this in a faction that plays in a style of play that I actually ENJOY.
Cappies have some superb 'Mechs.
People always harp about the FedSuns getting all the munchy stuff, and the FWL getting all the crap, but CapCon 'Mechs seem to fly under the radar for most part.
The Ti Ts'ang. Few factions have melee 'Mechs actually optimized for that.
The Yu Huang is a good command and assault 'Mech. Improves upon the common Victors, with everything being straight upgrade except perhaps using XLFE but i'll take better weapons and more armor gladly.
The Sha Yu for skirmishing, with stealth armor. Really wish this one gets a ClanTech upgrade at some point. (Clan ERLLs with a couple of additional heat sinks, it becomes hilarious.)
The Shen Yi offers stealth armored alternative to the Catapult. Who else has stealthed fire support?
The Men Shen is one of the best Inner Sphere OmniMechs there is, i might even argue it is better than the Templar.
The Tian-Zong. Stealth armor, twin Gauss rifles. I mean, sure, there was already a Pillager variant that did this, but squeezed to heavy size with faster ground speed?
There is a bunch of 'Mechs i don't care for too, like that Yinghuochong (way too difficult name). Or Lu Wei Bing (6 tons of ammo in one torso, CASE II or no is too much). Or the Jinggau, though that boils more to that the miniature is pretty atrocious, functionally it is pretty good Inner Sphere heavy cavalry design, a none too common thing.
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But regardless of that, any bets how Daoshen will go?
Gauss slug?
Elemental claw (or gun)?
Assassinated?
Heart attack?
Stairs?
Yen-lo-wang
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You don't say.
Though there might be value in a pre-emptive strike, as even without going to Terra
The Confederation already< tried to infiltrate the Terran system (Operation Dakini) and well they literally ran into the wall. And before that their forces of Operation tiamat encountered Republic saboteurs which contributed to the reduction of combat effectivness by sabotaging Mechs with "exotic" equipment or blowing up ammo dumps. Stone in essence slowed the Confederation in order to handle the two Clans that came storming at the gates.
Oh and my take on Daoshen's last moments: trying to reenact what his father did during the Capellan Crusades only to fail spectacularly finally putting the nail into his own delusions of godhood.
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The "Blood of Kerensky" books reference St. Ives troops fighting in 3051 or 3052 against the Clans. Does anyone know if this was confirmed in another source, and what units may have been involved in the fighting?
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The Confederation already< tried to infiltrate the Terran system (Operation Dakini) and well they literally ran into the wall. And before that their forces of Operation tiamat encountered Republic saboteurs which contributed to the reduction of combat effectivness by sabotaging Mechs with "exotic" equipment or blowing up ammo dumps. Stone in essence slowed the Confederation in order to handle the two Clans that came storming at the gates.
There's some uncertainty whether the Wolves will keep the Fortress for Terra up, or if they even can. Though the Capellan advance has been slowed, i do not think Daoshen has given up on idea of conquering Terra, even if the Republic of the Sphere is no more.
The "Blood of Kerensky" books reference St. Ives troops fighting in 3051 or 3052 against the Clans. Does anyone know if this was confirmed in another source, and what units may have been involved in the fighting?
I believe this has been referenced elsewhere as well. Candance loaned some units to FedCom. Given the limited amount of troops St. Ives Compact had, i would guess the 1st St. Ives Armored Cavalry was involved, not many other options, but need to find details.
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There's some uncertainty whether the Wolves will keep the Fortress for Terra up, or if they even can. Though the Capellan advance has been slowed, i do not think Daoshen has given up on idea of conquering Terra, even if the Republic of the Sphere is no more.
Taking Terra is most defintely on Daoshen's agenda. After all Stone humiliated him during the Capellan crusades with Operation Magnus which almost succeded with capturing Daoshen. Though from what I understand is that right now the "wall generator" is running. The info I got was from the Shrapnell 7 book and the date was in 3149 I think. Right now we are a bit further with the Wolves now in control of Terra. Though it would be funny if that wall also comes down the Capellans jump in and then they get the "Welcome to the Wolf Empire! Drop your weapons or our ships will evaporate your Jumpships in seconds." greeting. I mean unlike the Republic the Wolves are not squeemish about fighting outside of the Ares rules (though that might be said for the Confederation as well)
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Oh, right. I was reading through the original House Liao book and it notes that some raid or event netted the CapCon Marik Wolverine and BattleMaster schematics.
Uh, ok?
I mean, the Wolverine could refer to 6M type, but that BattleMaster? There's no Marik Beemer variant in 3025, and i'm pretty sure the BattleMaster is not uncommon assault 'Mechs for the CapCon.
Of course, it is possible the text indicates CapCon obtained plans for constructing both 'Mechs, something that they haven't been doing. Evidently nothing came from that though.
And it seems the original house book is about as quiet about ethnic backgrounds of the CapCon as the newer Handbook, Tikonov being an exception. Liaos themselves have English-Nepalese-Hong Kong origins.
Incidentally, "Tikonov" seems to be a misspelling or perhaps a flawed transliteration. At least, checking in Wikipedia, there's no "Tikonov" but "Tikhonov" is a surname and place.
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The original manufacturer of the Battlemaster was Hollis Incorporated of Corey...a planet smack dab on the middle of the Confederation. It's unlikely they were talking about the base plans there.
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The original manufacturer of the Battlemaster was Hollis Incorporated of Corey...a planet smack dab on the middle of the Confederation. It's unlikely they were talking about the base plans there.
Last i recall, that thing was blown up during the First Succession War.
Might be mixing it with something else though. There was a lot of factories blown up.
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Last i recall, that thing was blown up during the First Succession War.
Might be mixing it with something else though. There was a lot of factories blown up.
It was. It could have meant the recovery of those plans then, but thry certainly weren't put back into production until around the Jihad.
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There's some uncertainty whether the Wolves will keep the Fortress for Terra up, or if they even can. Though the Capellan advance has been slowed, i do not think Daoshen has given up on idea of conquering Terra, even if the Republic of the Sphere is no more.
I think in HotW Alaric found out he’s got maybe two years worth of battery for the wall
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Doesn't seem to be so much "battery" as it is available jump cores.
At least if i understood the wall's mechanism right, each blocked ship requires using one jump core.
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Incidentally, "Tikonov" seems to be a misspelling or perhaps a flawed transliteration. At least, checking in Wikipedia, there's no "Tikonov" but "Tikhonov" is a surname and place.
The second, most likely. The х in Тихонов is an aspirated k, so it technically correct to spell it Tikhonov. The downside of this is that many people mistake it for a regular k, mispronouce and - as in case of BT - eventually misspell it. The (East) German and Polish transliteration is Tichonow e.g.
But thanks to Star Trek and Pavel Chekov (Чехов) the k-pronounciation is deeply ingrained in western societies. I guess that's why they went with a simple Tikonov.
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Doesn't seem to be so much "battery" as it is available jump cores.
At least if i understood the wall's mechanism right, each blocked ship requires using one jump core.
Makes you wonder how many jump cores they had to begin with. "Enough" obviously, but just how many attempts to get through the Fortress do we know of?
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Makes you wonder how many jump cores they had to begin with. "Enough" obviously, but just how many attempts to get through the Fortress do we know of?
From the era report 3145 there were 2 attempts noted. The most famous is of course Theodore Kurita and his Kurita Pride jumpship but there was also a mention of a tradeship named Indian Stream that turned out a mangled mess. It also states that the remnants counted more attempts but didn't state how many just that all ended in spectacular failures. The Shattered Fortress opening story has a Capellan spyship that tried to follow Julian and got destroyed as well. Although why can't the Republic keep up the wall? The resources for Jumpship cores should be there right? Or did the Republic lost the ability to produce sufficient jump cores?
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I suspect that since production of jumpships is a prolonged process, rate of production outstrips the rate of use for the wall. I also suspect that you can't just use any core. But rather have to use specially produced cores, which would limit the production further.
Also, while the fortress had most of the naval production facilities, their sources of germanium and other vital resources needed for production would mostly lie outside the fortress, limiting them to whatever reserves they had.
And to be honest, I can't see the CapCon trying to invade Terra. I can however see them telling the new star league to stuff it, given the way the CapCon responded to the Republic. And the Republic had much more sphere wide support than the wolf empire's new star league will. So the wolf empire trying to impose their will across the inner sphere as the head of a new star league is going to get a big "no" from the CapCon, and likely see another round of conflicts similar to the republic-capcon wars post jihad.
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I suspect that since production of jumpships is a prolonged process, rate of production outstrips the rate of use for the wall. I also suspect that you can't just use any core. But rather have to use specially produced cores, which would limit the production further.
Also, while the fortress had most of the naval production facilities, their sources of germanium and other vital resources needed for production would mostly lie outside the fortress, limiting them to whatever reserves they had.
And to be honest, I can't see the CapCon trying to invade Terra. I can however see them telling the new star league to stuff it, given the way the CapCon responded to the Republic. And the Republic had much more sphere wide support than the wolf empire's new star league will. So the wolf empire trying to impose their will across the inner sphere as the head of a new star league is going to get a big "no" from the CapCon, and likely see another round of conflicts similar to the republic-capcon wars post jihad.
I think the Belts should be able to provide the necessary ressources (if we go by the IS players book which stated that the Belts have enough ressources to feed Terra for hundreds of years) though if they can provide them in the necessary quantities is another question. I wonder if the Republic would have been better of with raiding the ressources instead of destabilizing their neighbours (then again a riading party for smash and grab is most liokely easier to intercept)
I think Daoshen is insane enough to attack Terra just to prove he can overcome his enemies who defeated him in the past. Just look at New Syrtis. He captured the planet and then traveld himself there to witness the behading of Amanda Hasek. Of course the Suns managed to recpature it later but still. The Wolves have not long and imho Alaric will have to figure out if he wants to rely on the RAF soldiers who still live on Terra. Because if he does nothing he might have a real problem brewing at his doorstep (bitter men and women who know how to fight aren't exactly the ones I want to piss of give or take if they have Mechs)
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Regarding the jump cores, the jump ship (or core) production did not outstrip the use. Think Hour of the Wolf or some other preceding novels noted that the Republic is running out (because you need bunch of trade and transport and whatever else) and cannot maintain the Fortress indefinitely, and that was one reason the Wall was shut down mostly but kept up around Terra.
Presumably there were far more attempts to pierce the Wall than just the few noted ones.
(Plus it might be an interception required more than one core per intercept?)
I also seem to recall the Wolves noted and were puzzled by a massive amount of JumpShip hulks... i think it was near the jump point they used?
The second, most likely. The х in Тихонов is an aspirated k, so it technically correct to spell it Tikhonov. The downside of this is that many people mistake it for a regular k, mispronouce and - as in case of BT - eventually misspell it. The (East) German and Polish transliteration is Tichonow e.g.
But thanks to Star Trek and Pavel Chekov (Чехов) the k-pronounciation is deeply ingrained in western societies. I guess that's why they went with a simple Tikonov.
Interesting.
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On that note, are there any significantly-Polish areas of the Confederation noted anywhere? It's for a character background; if I can find something appropriate I'll use it but if not then I default to a homeworld of Sakhalin.
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On that note, are there any significantly-Polish areas of the Confederation noted anywhere? It's for a character background; if I can find something appropriate I'll use it but if not then I default to a homeworld of Sakhalin.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Poznan
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Poznan certainly gets traded back and forth enough. I suppose that brings up the question of what happens to a planetary population that was forcibly annexed by a foreign power that gets brought back into the fold - are the denizens of Poznan reduced to Servitor-caste status or is the world's history as rightful Capellan clay considered to allow the citizens to come back in as their previous status?
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It's a good question, actually. One wonders.
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Poznan certainly gets traded back and forth enough. I suppose that brings up the question of what happens to a planetary population that was forcibly annexed by a foreign power that gets brought back into the fold - are the denizens of Poznan reduced to Servitor-caste status or is the world's history as rightful Capellan clay considered to allow the citizens to come back in as their previous status?
Maybe they are treated like citizens on planets claimed by the Combine when the planet is reconquered? There is a note that often Combine citizens put up much resistance because they are afraid of being later painted as collaborateurs should the Combine come back. Though planets that get traded oftewn might be something else. Not sure in which book I read that but there is a note from anastasius focht in which he said that border planets have streong defenses but will more easily subject themselves to the winner while inner planets usually have lighter defenses but a way more strong resistance to submit. something the Clans found out the hard way when they returned to the IS.
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Poznan certainly gets traded back and forth enough. I suppose that brings up the question of what happens to a planetary population that was forcibly annexed by a foreign power that gets brought back into the fold - are the denizens of Poznan reduced to Servitor-caste status or is the world's history as rightful Capellan clay considered to allow the citizens to come back in as their previous status?
I think it depends on how fast it returns: if most of the same citizens are still alive from before, after a quick mask check, probably a return to the status quo.
if it's been YEARS? Then, yeah, I think many would have to re-earn their rights.
I think Jason Schmetzers latest novel kinda hit upon that idea, but I don't think it's been canoized word-for-word. (if that makes sense, running on my 1st cup o joe for the day right now :))
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Do we know of any CCAF mech Regiments that fought against Clan Diamond Shark/Sea Fox between the end of the Jihad and the current point in the time line?
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Do we know of any CCAF mech Regiments that fought against Clan Diamond Shark/Sea Fox between the end of the Jihad and the current point in the time line?
I swear there was a case of some... Aimag? entering combat with some CC units.
Perhaps those who followed Julian Davion's Task Force Navarre, because SharkFox-CC relations are usually pretty good.
EDIT Digging through Shattered Fortress right now.
EDIT Tiburon Khanate's Gamma Aimag followed Julian Davion. Now pretty sure they engaged combat at some point.
EDIT After Jan 3146, Julian renegotiates the contract with the Gamma Aimag to use them in combat operations (essentially making them Clan mercenaries...). They then proceed to attack Nanking, though Julian diverts to Terra due to Stone's invitation. This seems to happen in February 3146.
The Gamma Aimag would later attack Pleione and Poznan in May.
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Cheers, so if the deployment tables in FM3145 are right the only regular CCAF unit they faced would be the 2nd Liao Guards.
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No comment on that. Also didn't read past that section (page 18) so there might be more stuff.
You planning a game involving Sea Foxes and Capellans?
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Maybe :thumbsup:
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Recognition Guide 5, Hammerhead entry.
In 3149, the Skate Khanate's Beta Aimag gets so tired of Capellan authorities on Corey rebuffing efforts to establish trade relations and then even firing on Sea Fox dropships with ASF that the ovKhan declares a batchall against the spaceport. It is mentioned that the Cappies put up a "rugged defense" in the warehouse district, though use of Mech forces is not explicit.
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Thanks, no listed garrison in FM3145 so, unless someone moved in the meantime, the defender would be at best a Home Guard unit.
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There was an entry in the TRO 3145 for the Nagasawa Pocket warship. The Capellans were pressuring business contacts from the Sea Foxes and the Foxes decided to make an example of one Capellan dropship squadron claiming a Capellan combat dropship as isorla. Also there is anote that every time the Capellans press the foxes for more material they react by selling more stuff to the Capellan March (I think thats from the Field Manual 3145). Seems as if the Foxes were already on a very stressed realtionship with the Capellans
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I wonder why the Confederation didn't retain a rump Andurien Commonality in exile.
One of the duchies in Sian Commonality (the worlds of Principia, Niomede, Shiba, Sax and Andarmax) is what remained of the Andurien Commonality. Wonder when and why they were formally reassigned to Sian.
Plus, given the ambiguous origin of the Shin Legions, being remnants of the former Andurien Hussars crammed together with other smash Liao units could work for them. Some units like 7th Andurien Hussars don't have an official place or time of death, and what with "Liao's Lost Legion" falling in battle on Shuen Wan there could be room to build a story. ^-^
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I wonder why the Confederation didn't retain a rump Andurien Commonality in exile.
One of the duchies in Sian Commonality (the worlds of Principia, Niomede, Shiba, Sax and Andarmax) is what remained of the Andurien Commonality. Wonder when and why they were formally reassigned to Sian.
Always found it odd, also wondered why the Chesterton Commonality was rolled into Tikonov whilst the Chesterton Reserves remained as an active command in the CCAF (also wonder when the Divisions name changed from Chesterton Regulars).
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So CC and RasDom worked together to make the Kontio. Interesting.
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So CC and RasDom worked together to make the Kontio. Interesting.
Was just about to post something similar.
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I wonder why the Confederation didn't retain a rump Andurien Commonality in exile.
My guess is because Andurien didn't have the importance to them that Chesterton did in the early days of the CapCon.
Andurien was only in the CapCon for two years after its founding when the FWL took it over. The Chesterton Trade League, conversely, was part of the Sarna Supremacy (and of Tikonov before that) when Reynard Davion demanded it be turned over, and this was all well before the CapCon was founded.
Plus the Hargreaves line on Chesterton seemed to stay loyal to the CapCon even in exile, and I don't think that was ever the case with Andurien.
But looking back at the history of FWL/CapCon conflicts over Andurien, it's kinda hard to refute the idea that an Andurien rump state wasn't ever a thing.
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I was just musing a bit today over just how many governments the world of Capella itself went through on its journey to becoming the CapCon: the Capellan Holdfast from 2193-2194, the Capellan Republic from 2194 to 2270, the Capellan Hegemony from 2270-2310, the Capellan Commonality from 2310-2367, and finally the Capellan Confederation. What a journey that world has gone through!
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Would augmented lances be appropriate during Operation Guerrero? I'm trying with building and augmented company for Vong's Grenadiers during their invasion of Carver V. The field manual says the CCAF got the idea from encountering clan novas, which makes me wonder if they mean after 3057. Anybody know?
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My guess is unlikely.
I mean, they would have some "knowledge" of the Nova Concept by 3057, but, wouldn't actually "Encounter" it till Operation Bulldog.
At best it might be in some basic prototype infancy testing/experimentation phase at best.
I don't recall really hearing about Augmented Lances till after they re-integrated the SIC in the early 3060's war.
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Thanks I think you're right. Thanks!
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For the record, Carver-V invasion wasn't in 3057, it was in 3060 per Sarna, if that helps your decision.
Looks like they got curb stomped trying to invade there & other than rumors of it being WoB, I can't find confirmation what actually happened there.
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For the record, Carver-V invasion wasn't in 3057, it was in 3060 per Sarna, if that helps your decision.
Looks like they got curb stomped trying to invade there & other than rumors of it being WoB, I can't find confirmation what actually happened there.
Out of curiosity: is the story of Mechcommander 2 considered canon? In that game you fight at one point for House Liao and then later destroy the noble house that hired you (and later help the pülanet claim independence leading to the population rechristen the planet Liberty). Or did something else happen that was never really described?
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Generally speaking video game stories are not canon. Aspects of them may be canonized though. In case of MechCommander 2, at least the Flea Fire Ant variant got canonized, and a MWDA article compilation (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Dark_Age:_Republic_Worlds_(3130)) implies MC2 style fighting happened there. The MWDA thing seems to be canon but not 100% on that.
HBS's BattleTech is roughly canonized by House Arano (The Aurigan Coalition), and MechWarrior IV Vengeance is roughly canonized by FedCom Civil War, and many of its 'Mech stock loadouts got record sheets. Not sure about others.
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Near as I can tell, MechCommander 2 is considered to be broad-strokes canon like many of the other computer games. Some of the events may have occurred, but they may not have happened as described in the game.
The MWDA fluff is entirely canon.
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Out of curiosity: is the story of Mechcommander 2 considered canon? In that game you fight at one point for House Liao and then later destroy the noble house that hired you (and later help the pülanet claim independence leading to the population rechristen the planet Liberty). Or did something else happen that was never really described?
From what I recall.........
1. Yes there was a rebellion & the planet changed names.
2. IIRC, The Liao Noble wasn't really "Liao" as we know it, she was the planetary noble that owned the planet for centuries & it had been captured in 4th SW where most nobles ended up swearing fealty to the FS. But in the case of Carver since 3057 it was a "Chaos" world so the Noble/Duke/Mandrin/Lady was able to show her true colors & revert back to her Liao heritage.
3. The FedCom unit assigned to the world was actually listed on another world in the FCCW sourcebook.
4. I doubt any merc has ever fought on the same planet & changed their allegiances 3x in a matter of months but that is more part of the "Game" story.
What you can safely say since, #3 the unit is elsewhere, is that in the early/mid 60's, a Merc Unit was on world & "some" forces from the LA & FC faced off in a Civil War action while the Noble in charge of the world called tried to throw off any rule by either FedCom party.
In the end, the people stood up to the Noble & the Militaries to become an independent world................. till the Blakists moved back in during the Jihad, lol.
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I'm interested in painting a lance of Kerr's Intruders from the Third Succession War to use a Charger 1A5 and a TDR-5D that I've been wanting to try out, but there is no information on their paint scheme.
I see four options:
1) Use Tikonov Republican Guard colors because one of their battalions defected to join them
2) Base it on Kincaid's Rangers scheme because they were both in the Tikonov Reserves in 3025 and might share colors.
3) Use camo because that was not uncommon in the CCAF reserve units.
4) get creative, but I have no ideas yet.
Thoughts on what seems most plausible?
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You can hardly ever go wrong with #3.
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I'm interested in painting a lance of Kerr's Intruders from the Third Succession War to use a Charger 1A5 and a TDR-5D that I've been wanting to try out, but there is no information on their paint scheme.
I see four options:
1) Use Tikonov Republican Guard colors because one of their battalions defected to join them
2) Base it on Kincaid's Rangers scheme because they were both in the Tikonov Reserves in 3025 and might share colors.
3) Use camo because that was not uncommon in the CCAF reserve units.
4) get creative, but I have no ideas yet.
Thoughts on what seems most plausible?
You could use the non-canon but pretty cool paint scheme from here: https://unitcolorcompendium.com/2018/12/01/kerrs-intruders/
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I considered the non Canon scheme.
I think I'll go with camo. Their most notable raid was on Aosis's northern polar Arctic region, so I think I'll break up my green and tans with some white and gray. Thanks guys
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I'm interested in painting a lance of Kerr's Intruders from the Third Succession War to use a Charger 1A5 and a TDR-5D that I've been wanting to try out, but there is no information on their paint scheme.
I see four options:
1) Use Tikonov Republican Guard colors because one of their battalions defected to join them
2) Base it on Kincaid's Rangers scheme because they were both in the Tikonov Reserves in 3025 and might share colors.
3) Use camo because that was not uncommon in the CCAF reserve units.
4) get creative, but I have no ideas yet.
Thoughts on what seems most plausible?
Based on what I could find about them, I'd say Option #2
Per the Kincaid Rangers info who were both in the Tikonov Reserves
does not use camouflage paint schemes, preferring dark green with red highlights.
The new unit that Kincaid belongs to does use camo so the notation about Kincaid NOT using camo makes me think they kept their old colors from the Tikonov Reserves org that they were in with the Intruders.
So I'd use the Rangers info as my base.
But there is a possible change option.
Perhaps if you don't like Red Highlights you might change the secondary highlight color & stick w/ Dark Green base.
Some other factions are known to do that where they all use the same base but each regiment has a slightly different highlight.
If you wanted to be Dark Green w/ "Blue" or something else you could look at that.
But the base of Dark Green is a very cappie feel to it & based on the Rangers is possibly what they used in 3025.
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Hellraiser, that is a sound idea. I'm now torn between that and camo, but which I choose, there's a stronf rationale. Thanks!
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I came into possession of a bunch of old Ral Partha Vindicators and I'm thinking of doing some WYSIWYG mods on them for Dark Age Capellan units.
Which Vindicator model do you guys like best for late-era play and why?
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I like the 5L, but it’s not even close to WYSIWYG. It’s faster than normal, but a bit fragile with the XL. It’s a decent close range brawler, it can activate TSM is just about any way it wants with all of its energy weapons. Plus it has a er ppc for some long range damage
We’ll probably see one at some point in the future tho, given that it’s been given the Scroggins treatment, but that’s not certain, It wasn’t in the KS and Rec Guide series. A true WYSIWYG variant wouldn’t be very impressive tho, I think. Not a lot of weapons
Also there hasn’t been an updated vindicator since the start of the Jihad, so it’s due for an upgrade.
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Personally, I prefer the 4L. Solid light stealth sniper/skirmisher.
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The VND-4L is also my preference. I generally don't like fielding BattleMechs that can't manage at least 5/8 movement.
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Was going off of Sarna, and I combined the 4L and 5L together. Makes me like the 5L a little bit less. It’s been a while since I actually used them.
Part of the reason tho I like the 5L is that it’s a decent Capellan design that doesn’t use Stealth, which happens less and less as it becomes more and more the Capellan sthick
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The VND-4L is also my preference. I generally don't like fielding BattleMechs that can't manage at least 5/8 movement.
Do you mean medium 'Mechs, or at any weight class? Cuz that rules out a lot of Capellan classics.
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Do you mean medium 'Mechs, or at any weight class? Cuz that rules out a lot of Capellan classics.
Any, although the lighter they get the less slower than 5/8 is tolerable. I'll happily play with slow stealth gunline 'Mechs like the Tian Zong or CTF-4L Cataphract, but it's not particularly exciting. I much prefer the Lao Hus, Thunders, Jinggaus and Ti Ts'angs of the world to stuff like the 'bolt or 'hammer.
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The VND-4L is also my preference. I generally don't like fielding BattleMechs that can't manage at least 5/8 movement.
Tbf the 5L and 6L should be activating TSM as much as possible; then they become 5/8/4 movers.
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I think I want to try modding one of the TSM Vindicators.
Do you guys have any opinions on the 5L versus the 6L?
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I prefer the 5L. I don’t have to monkey with stealth armor, it’s got an easier time managing TSM (partially from not having stealth armor), and is probably a better line combatant. It has range, can deal with faster things, and if things get too close it can smack them.
The 6L seems more like a vehicle hunter/infantry support mech. Stealth keeps the damage off until it can close the range, it can force a PSR on mechs if it needs to. It can keep pace with BA, and the JJ would let it keep close if their transports need to cross terrain.
I also don’t like rocket launchers or single use weapons to begin with so it bugs me there.
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The VND-5L is decent, but there's only so much you can do in melee at 45 tons, and it's definitely too slow to avoid melee if someone decides to go toe-to-toe.
The VND-6L is simply trying to do too many things at once. I happen to think the stealth armor is great for closing the distance to melee while keeping your heat up for TSM, but the rocket launchers are a great way to screw up your heat value for no effect, and the remaining weaponry isn't a lot to write home about. Sure, TarComps are pretty rare on Capellan units, but on a TSM design that's basically just negating your heat penalty.
Comparing the two, the VND-5L is very good at one thing for its weight class, but is not at a weight class that's good for that one thing. The VND-6L is more of a gimmicky Batman utility belt for elite hot shots. In theory you're closing safely with the enemy to cut off their C³ network and engage them in melee while neutralizing conventional assets and sapping enemy 'Mechs strength with heat damage, but in practice you're probably just plinking them for moderate damage from 2-4 hexes out.
The reason I feel the VND-4L is the superior model is because it can run stealth while firing the ER PPC essentially forever without building up heat. Keeping the range open, you can throw in the LRM-5 when the TNs are good, and you can keep up a continual pressure on your opponent without exposing yourself to effective return fire. A 45 tonner has no business trying to get stuck in, so don't. Run and gun from a distance.
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Also to add to the MadCapellan, the LRM-10 can add T-AUG salvos into the fray.
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Any, although the lighter they get the less slower than 5/8 is tolerable. I'll happily play with slow stealth gunline 'Mechs like the Tian Zong or CTF-4L Cataphract, but it's not particularly exciting. I much prefer the Lao Hus, Thunders, Jinggaus and Ti Ts'angs of the world to stuff like the 'bolt or 'hammer.
I'm generally the same way, but still, I couldn't live without my Yu Huangs or my stealth Emperors and Pillys.
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I am hoping we see a 7L that's more a return to form, though I'm not sure what that'd look like beside jamming Clantech into a 4L.
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A partial clan tech upgrade of the old 3L/3Lr wouldn’t be bad either.
Although CC has not been shown to make any Clan tech so far. It’s all imports.
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I am hoping we see a 7L that's more a return to form, though I'm not sure what that'd look like beside jamming Clantech into a 4L.
I'd love to see something that keeps the original movement curve but gives it hardened armor and a Clan ER PPC to make it into a nasty little hard-to-kill medium trooper.
EDIT: Something like this. (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/battlemechs/vindicator-vnd-8l/)
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I like this a lot. Considering it would cost only 3 tons to bump it to 5/8, might be worth it.
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The VND-6L is simply trying to do too many things at once. I happen to think the stealth armor is great for closing the distance to melee while keeping your heat up for TSM, but the rocket launchers are a great way to screw up your heat value for no effect, and the remaining weaponry isn't a lot to write home about. Sure, TarComps are pretty rare on Capellan units, but on a TSM design that's basically just negating your heat penalty.
I tried it in Megamek and it seems like the only sustainable way to hit 9 heat was to activate stealth, run, fire the plasma rifle and one ERML, and shut off one heat sink. If you walk, you have to fire rockets and it screws up your heat curve
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Has anyone use the new RVN-5L yet? I always avoided this mech but now that it can generate a 4TMM I took another look.
The iNarc with three tons of ammo looks really intriguing.
What kind of units would you use it to support? Maybe a pair of LRM Carriers or a Shen Yi 5B, or Stealth Crusaders and Archers?
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I haven't used the 5L, but the haywire pods iNarc delivers are nasty. There's no reason not to use a +4 TMM stealth platform for haywire pods.
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The Shen Yi I think is pretty cool.
I also like the Stealth lrm Huron Warrior. Various Anubis could more or less keep up with the raven too. Unless you were trying to keep it mostly stealth any number of catapults work too.
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There's no reason not to use a +4 TMM stealth platform for haywire pods.
"Because it's funny," meanwhile, is a fine reason TO use that.
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May I suggest a pair of Regulator II ( Stealth ) hovers?
Augmented Lance
Raven-5L
Lao Hu-4E
Archer-7L
Archer-7L
Regulator II
Regulator II
or
Augmented Lance
Raven-5L
Raven-5L
Brutus LRM
Brutus LRM
Brutus LRM
Po II ( Stealth )
That above is an evil design. Switch on Stealth when attacking, but if someone gets close turn it off and blanket the area with ECM.
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Damn these are some mean combinations. The trick will be fitting it all in a BV-balanced game. It does help that the Raven itself is only about 1k.
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Damn these are some mean combinations. The trick will be fitting it all in a BV-balanced game. It does help that the Raven itself is only about 1k.
Me? Mean? ::)
* points to sigbar...
Technically, you can drop those tank's BV to a low piloting, after all Brutus are 3/5 and their more for LRM spread.
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I tried to work the idea into the 6k limit I usually build for and got a pretty decent list:
Raven 5L (4/4)
Raven 5L (4/5)
Catapult C4C (4/5)
Brutus (LRM) (4/6)
Brutus (LRM) (4/6)
Total: 5,995 BV
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Here's another more Mech-heavy 6K list that uses the Raven's TAG (plus the Men Shen's) to land a lot of SG LRMs.
I'm tentatively thinking of painting it as Laurel's Legion.
Raven 5L (4/5)
Men Shen OF (4/5)
Shen Yi 5B (4/5)
Blackjack OA (4/5)
Fa Shih (King David) (4/5)
Fa Shih (King David) (4/5)
Total BV: 5,974
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I looked through FM: CC and FM: 3145 and can't find any mention of equipment colors for Home Guard.
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I looked through FM: CC and FM: 3145 and can't find any mention of equipment colors for Home Guard.
I very much doubt there is any uniform scheme for the Home Guard. It is likely they affect local camouflage, but at 1-2 regiments a duchy, you'll likely see local commanders doing whatever strikes their fancy so long as it doesn't offend some high-ranking authority.
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Could've sworn that something notes that the Home Guard uses camouflage suited to local conditions.
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Liao green for parade, camouflage for field.
Customizations to colours is done as needed, usually hotshots.
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Anybody have a good suggestion for painting Liao green? I'm a bit colorblind so matching paint to art isn't my strong suit...
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Anything Jade is pretty good
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Anybody have a good suggestion for painting Liao green? I'm a bit colorblind so matching paint to art isn't my strong suit...
Camospecs reccomends Citidal Caliban green, with warpstone glow highlights or equivilants
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Camospecs reccomends Citidal Caliban green, with warpstone glow highlights or equivilants
Thanks! Great find!
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Can anyone point me in the direction of information about Task Force Chong Che. It gets a passing mention in Grey Watch Protocol and Blood Will Tell. All I could pick up is it tried to breach Fortress Republic in 3146 and the wall destroyed the 3rd Liao Guards and the 7th Capellan Defense Force in their dropships.
Kind of a bummer as after reading FM: 3145, I had planned to paint some 7th CDF because their former urban militia schtick sounds cool.
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Can anyone point me in the direction of information about Task Force Chong Che. It gets a passing mention in Grey Watch Protocol and Blood Will Tell. All I could pick up is it tried to breach Fortress Republic in 3146 and the wall destroyed the 3rd Liao Guards and the 7th Capellan Defense Force in their dropships.
Kind of a bummer as after reading FM: 3145, I had planned to paint some 7th CDF because their former urban militia schtick sounds cool.
You're looking for Shattered Fortress, page 22.
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You're looking for Shattered Fortress, page 22.
Many thanks! Another book to pick up.
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I apologize if this has been discussed already or seems like an odd question.
This part of the Sarna article had me wondering. Does the Confederation look the other way or even encourage things like men having multiple lovers?
There are no limits to the size of one's family — indeed it is seen as a service to the state to raise large families, and numerous incentives are available for those who do have many children.
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I see that more as "no the capcon doesn't have a one child policy"
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Does the Confederation look the other way or even encourage things like men having multiple lovers?
I can't imagine any multi-cultural star empire is going to have a universal opinion on that.
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I can't imagine any multi-cultural star empire is going to have a universal opinion on that.
agreed. things like that would be at a planetary level
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I apologize if this has been discussed already or seems like an odd question.
This part of the Sarna article had me wondering. Does the Confederation look the other way or even encourage things like men having multiple lovers?
I've haven't read anything that states polygamy is illegal, though its not presented as a common practice in the general populace. Nobles are known to have multiple lovers, but that's more greed and lust than obligation. It's more like there is no limit to how many children a family can have. Education is guaranteed by the state for every child as well as jobs oppurtunities from skilled labor to military. The more successful a child is, the better it reflects on the family as a whole.
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I've haven't read anything that states polygamy is illegal
Not only is it not illegal in any Great House (AFAIK, though I agree it TOTALLY probably varies on how encouraged/discouraged it is from world to would) the Periphery 1st edition mentioned there was a religion in the OA that encouraged it. I specifically wrote a character into an ELH story to highlight it: we (writers and readers) sometimes forget that this is a sci-fi universe, not our own, so I purposely wrote in that deep-cut to illustrate that a lot of family groupings we might think unusual in the -real life now- would totally be allowed and might even be commonplace SOMEWHERE in the Inner Sphere.
So, PERSONALLY, I think the Confederation's stance on kids to same-sex parents would be the same as to hetero-couples: "you can have as many as you can raise prosperously, because the children are OUR future, check-or-hold, Citizen?" :)
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Polygamy was made illegal in the CapCon under the rule of Androsar Liao. Blame Kalvin's obsessions causing yet another Andurien War.
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Polygamy was made illegal in the CapCon under the rule of Androsar Liao after Kalvin's obsessions caused yet another Andurien War.
Source?
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Both the old and new Liao sourcebooks.
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Polygamy was made illegal in the CapCon under the rule of Androsar Liao. Blame Kalvin's obsessions causing yet another Andurien War.
So a definite no on polygamy, at least in terms of legal marriage.
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So a definite no on polygamy, at least in terms of legal marriage.
Liao: "no polygamy, citizens."
people: "not like we can AFFORD more than one spouse in THIS economy!"
Liao: "what was that?"
people: "nothing, oh mighty celestial one!"
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I'm trying to figure out if the Harloc Raiders of 3145 would be using a lot of "foreign" mechs based on this passage from FM3145, P. 33:
"In the latter half of the 31st century, many of the unit's personnel were former mercenaries struggling to earn a living and private mech owners fleeing [the Republic's] attempts to confiscate their war machines, but the Raiders of today are just as likely survivors of units shattered in the Republic, Free Worlds, or the Commonwealth."
Would you interpret that--as a unit full of former RAF, former FWLM and former LCAF Mechwarriors who may have brought mechs from their former nations--or does it mean a bunch of CCAF Mechwarriors whose units got wrecked fighting against those nations?
It could be read both ways. Although one data point is the book says elsewhere that the Raiders are the only unit in the CCAF where the Mechwarriors are largely not Capellan citizens.
It would be cool if the former because I have a lot of Capellan designs already and would enjoy a mix of Republic, Lyran and League mechs in a Capellan unit, but I don't want to fall prey to simple wishful thinking...
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I interpreted it as people from the Republic, FWL and LC. not units broken fighting them (as the capcon's not been fighting the FWL and LC much.) the regiment is BASICLY the "capcon foriegn legion" IMHO
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Would you interpret that--as a unit full of former RAF, former FWLM and former LCAF Mechwarriors who may have brought mechs from their former nations--or does it mean a bunch of CCAF Mechwarriors whose units got wrecked fighting against those nations?
I intended the former when I wrote it. :)
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I intended the former when I wrote it. :)
Well if that doesn't settle it. Thank you, sir! I can finally justify a Hatchetman in my Capellan units.
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Which units would you all say are the best options for Capellan AAA? Other than ASFs/VTOLs of their own, of course.
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Classic AC2 Carriers or the Regulator Arrow and RAC config.
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Air Defense Arrow does seem like the best play. May I suggest the THR-3L Thunder? Mobile, stealth, can kick a 'Mech to death if necessary.
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Air Defense Arrow does seem like the best play. May I suggest the THR-3L Thunder? Mobile, stealth, can kick a 'Mech to death if necessary.
Powerful but rather expensive for AA purpose, in C-bills and BV. Also questionable amount of ammo for the task, though that does apply to just about anything with this variant.
Classic Catapult C3 offers only half the ammo but is much cheaper. C5 is better and cheaper than the Thunder for this (and jump jets keep its mobility roughly equal at least in more difficult terrain).
For something even cheaper, perhaps simply Demolisher Arrow IV variant, at least for defensive operations.
If ballistics are preferred, there's some argument for the Catapult C2. 2xLB-2X and LRM-15s. Or Men Shen A or B perhaps. And Snake 1Vs and 2Bs have LB-10X, so they can pull double duty in a pinch.
Cheap? AC Carrier LB-X variants or LB-X Vedettes perhaps.
Defensive ballistic platforms? Partisans of some variety, though Partisan AA Vehicles (the Dark Age wheeled thing) work in many situations reasonably.
Think best depends on use case heavily though. Defensive platform or something that's covering a mobile force? Difficult or open terrain? Is expected enemy air support heavy or light?
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Powerful but rather expensive for AA purpose, in C-bills and BV.
Don't use either, so I can't comment.
Also questionable amount of ammo for the task, though that does apply to just about anything with this variant.
On the contrary, with an attack that can hit up to two low-altitude hexes away, has flak bonus, thresholds DropShips and adds a +1 to the Control roll? 10 shots is more than enough to keep your company safe from enemy aero.
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On the contrary, with an attack that can hit up to two low-altitude hexes away, has flak bonus, thresholds DropShips and adds a +1 to the Control roll? 10 shots is more than enough to keep your company safe from enemy aero.
Sure, if you commit the 'Mech to that task alone, and have reason to expect to need that powerful AA. But given the utility of Arrow IVs as Cappies have all sorts of nasty munitions for them, and the fact the 'Mech has no other real weapons (for its mass), i'd prefer to have other types of ammo available rather than specializing in one type.
I can see value in multi-Shadow Lance formation where cost is not a problem. Though if i were running a Shadow Company with THR-3L for AA role, i'd probably prefer having two of them, each with 5 shots of ADA and 5 shots of whatever else. Still have 10 shots total but there would be ever so slight redundancy in case one gets blown up, or higher volume of fire if needed.
(Incidentally there are only two other Stealth Arrow IV platforms: a unique prototype Danais vehicle and a Planetlifter variant. Perhaps Capellans should expand this selection a bit more...)
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The Zhukov (Liao) is a fairly cheap option that can put up quite a spread of shot and is plenty effective against armor and mechs once the VTOL threat is eliminated. As a bonus, the mini is rather cool looking imo.
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So's the LBX Po, or regular Po using Flack rounds...
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The Po (LBX) does have way deeper bins. It's the main shortcoming if the Zhukov that it only has one ton of ammo per gun, compared to the Po's three.
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I decided my next project will be a lance of 1st Kearny Highlanders using some unseen minis I have laying around.
Does anyone know if they would sport the Capellan crest in 3025? Every source I can find on their paint schemes is post-defection
Thanks in advance!
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I need some opinion of force composition in lore.
I'm thinking of building a 'Mech & Combat Vehicle mixed Company in either Red Lancer or McCarron colors.
What kind of combat vehicles (preferably ground ones like tracked, wheeled or hover) that could be seen "typically" operating with such units?
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I need some opinion of force composition in lore.
I'm thinking of building a 'Mech & Combat Vehicle mixed Company in either Red Lancer or McCarron colors.
What kind of combat vehicles (preferably ground ones like tracked, wheeled or hover) that could be seen "typically" operating with such units?
the Po and regulator both come to mind.
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I need some opinion of force composition in lore.
I'm thinking of building a 'Mech & Combat Vehicle mixed Company in either Red Lancer or McCarron colors.
What kind of combat vehicles (preferably ground ones like tracked, wheeled or hover) that could be seen "typically" operating with such units?
You have some options for different flavor within the MAC. 2nd and 4th are known for speed in the current era. 3rd has always been about big mechs and big tanks. The 5th is"more defensive" which means tracks over hover. Po II and Regulator are standard options. Elite units might have the Pixiu fast tracked stealth tank. A defensive or city fighting unit might use Predator Tank Destroyers. Should we assume you're building for 3150?
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You have some options for different flavor within the MAC. 2nd and 4th are known for speed in the current era. 3rd has always been about big mechs and big tanks. The 5th is"more defensive" which means tracks over hover. Po II and Regulator are standard options. Elite units might have the Pixiu fast tracked stealth tank. A defensive or city fighting unit might use Predator Tank Destroyers. Should we assume you're building for 3150?
I'm currently mainly play in the 3050 era, but wanted to have room for variants if I move to Civil War era or later.
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I'm currently mainly play in the 3050 era, but wanted to have room for variants if I move to Civil War era or later.
So you have a lot of options given that MAC is a merc group at that time. Red Lancers would have the best, but in 3050 the CCAF was still trying to bounce back from the 4th Succession War and it won't be until the end of that decade that a lot of cool new stuff is available.
In 3050, classic Liao vehicles would be Condor (Laio), Vedette (Laio), Manticore, Hetzer, Scorpion. Plus newer vehicles Po Tank (introduced 3031) and Zhukov Heavy Tank (3030).
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I got a good deal on three Kickstarter Marauders and decided to paint up a 6k force of Freemont's Cuirassiers.
Any known painting references for the unit or the Sarna Reserves (their brigade in 3025)?
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I got a good deal on three Kickstarter Marauders and decided to paint up a 6k force of Freemont's Cuirassiers.
Any known painting references for the unit or the Sarna Reserves (their brigade in 3025)?
There's a fan-made scheme for Freemont's Cuirassiers (https://unitcolorcompendium.com/2018/11/27/freemonts-cuirassiers/) on the Unit Color Compendium, otherwise it looks like there may not be a canon paint scheme.
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There's a fan-made scheme for Freemont's Cuirassiers (https://unitcolorcompendium.com/2018/11/27/freemonts-cuirassiers/) on the Unit Color Compendium, otherwise it looks like there may not be a canon paint scheme.
Oh that's pretty cool. If nothing else turns up that would look good.
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What uniquely Capellan mech would you most like to see a resculpt of?
I'm torn between the Lao Hu and the Ti Tsang.
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What uniquely Capellan mech would you most like to see a resculpt of?
I'm torn between the Lao Hu and the Ti Tsang.
Sha Yu and Firebee (w/ Plasma Rifle) please
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What uniquely Capellan mech would you most like to see a resculpt of?
I'm torn between the Lao Hu and the Ti Tsang.
The Helios definitely needs a resculpt, along with the Emperor and the Pillager.
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So with the news that the new Beginner's Box will include a plastic Vindicator, do you think we'll see a wave of interest in playing House Liao?
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So with the news that the new Beginner's Box will include a plastic Vindicator, do you think we'll see a wave of interest in playing House Liao?
Maybe, I do know it means i'll be buying at least one more beginners box.
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So with the news that the new Beginner's Box will include a plastic Vindicator, do you think we'll see a wave of interest in playing House Liao?
I doubt it, the thing with all the "3025" mechs is even the ones associated with an individual house (the Vindy, the Enforcer, the Dragon etc) have spread to all corners of the inner sphere .... even by 3025 so people tend not to think too much about it. Now if and when they inevitably release some house packs, and we see capellan lance packs of things like the Ti't'sang etc.. that might make folks sit up and notice. Although I doubt anyone sticks for long with a faction "because they like the mechs" a faction needs to grab them.
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I doubt it, the thing with all the "3025" mechs is even the ones associated with an individual house (the Vindy, the Enforcer, the Dragon etc) have spread to all corners of the inner sphere .... even by 3025 so people tend not to think too much about it. Now if and when they inevitably release some house packs, and we see capellan lance packs of things like the Ti't'sang etc.. that might make folks sit up and notice. Although I doubt anyone sticks for long with a faction "because they like the mechs" a faction needs to grab them.
The last part is very true, the faction needs to have something about it to make you stay and not just the mechs.
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I'm painting a couple of lances of Shepherd's Mounted Fusiliers plus a few dark age mechs to play them as the 1st St. Ives Sentinels but I'm having trouble with insignia.
They have a cool regiment insignia, brigade insignia, and I'm not sure if they would also sport the Capellan crest but three seems like too much.
The only decal options on FPG that fit are the St. Ives Armored Cavalry insignia (their old brigade in 3025) and the Capellan crest.
Any advice? I'm fine with balancing rule of cool with source material but I feel torn here.
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Has House Imarra fought 21st Centauri Lancers at some point?
Because Campaign Operations newest cover depicts such battle.
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Quick Question for the Liao fans
NOT counting the Vedette, Maxim, Po, Regulator, & Minion/Morningstar......
What other vehicles are known to be produced in the CapCon during the SW Era from TRO 3025-3067 that would be "iconic" for them or even just "super common"?
I want to make up a Home Guard platoon unit & looking for suggestions.
Most of my Vee minis are older so not looking for Jihad+ suggestons.
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Zhukovs, Hetzers, LRM/SRM carriers, J. Edgars. Can't really go wrong with simple stuff. Swiftwinds for scouting.
Really, you can just throw darts at TRO 3039 vehicle section and it fits Liao Home Guard easy enough.
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Just a quick question: since the Wolf Empire seems to be doing some shrinking due to the troop concentration in former Republic Space (especially Terra) have the Wolves and the Confederation had any clashes yet? Considering that the realms now have a shared border in the former Prefecture X I can't imagine that they haven't already stepped on each others toes. So far the Confederation basically has to wait for the wall to drop to have any chance of a go at Terra but the remaining worlds should be fair game.
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.. we don't know. there's supposed to be a capcon vs wolf book coming as part of the whole "tamar rising/empire alone" etc series that will detail that type of thing.
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.. we don't know. there's supposed to be a capcon vs wolf book coming as part of the whole "tamar rising/empire alone" etc series that will detail that type of thing.
I see. So we are basically going a ring around the entire IS to detail what is happening while the Wolves hunker down and rebuild
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Remember what Victor thought about Terra... the backwater world. Mind you that Terra is located on one the most strategically important regions of the Inner Sphere (Proving his super duper strategical insights), but if he thought that way, a Chancellor might also.
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Remember what Victor thought about Terra... the backwater world. Mind you that Terra is located on one the most strategically important regions of the Inner Sphere (Proving his super duper strategical insights), but if he thought that way, a Chancellor might also.
Uhm where did Victor say that? I got the feeling he revered Terra for what the world was: the center of the IS and a world that needs defending against the Clans.
And Shattered Fortress gave the impression that Daoshen wants Terra before the Clans could have it just to proove he is the big shot in the IS.
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Uhm where did Victor say that? I got the feeling he revered Terra for what the world was: the center of the IS and a world that needs defending against the Clans.
And Shattered Fortress gave the impression that Daoshen wants Terra before the Clans could have it just to proove he is the big shot in the IS.
I believe during the Twilight of the Clans series, right after he found out that Terra had been their target all along. For reference, I do not remember him saying it, but rather thinking it.
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Quick Question for the Liao fans
NOT counting the Vedette, Maxim, Po, Regulator, & Minion/Morningstar......
What other vehicles are known to be produced in the CapCon during the SW Era from TRO 3025-3067 that would be "iconic" for them or even just "super common"?
I want to make up a Home Guard platoon unit & looking for suggestions.
Most of my Vee minis are older so not looking for Jihad+ suggestons.
House Liao p. 69 says Home Guard armored formations in 3025 we're mostly Manticores and Vedettes. Hope that helps.
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Has House Imarra fought 21st Centauri Lancers at some point?
Because Campaign Operations newest cover depicts such battle.
Sarna had nothing. It probably isn't IlClan era art because the Lancers headed to Tamar.
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Sarna had nothing. It probably isn't IlClan era art because the Lancers headed to Tamar.
Huh, so it seems. Forgot that.
Of course, the Centauri Lancers could end up leaving Tamar service quickly...
Looks like before their Tamar contract, they seem to have been in the Lyran service, since 3130 at least. Post-Jihad, they were in FedSuns service, so art could take be from Victoria War but didn't find references to the Lancers in Wars of the Republic Era.
So, perhaps the art just depicts some Third Succession War battle/raid that happened to pit the Warrior House Imarra against the Lancers?
If so, a pity. Would've made a good basis for some force building. Still, gotta consider the House Imarra, the cover provides a good reference for painting.
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So a definite no on polygamy, at least in terms of legal marriage.
I was thinking a one wife and one or more mistresses' kind of thing. Possibly in the same household to get those economic benefits and as "a service to the state."
Came to mind after I started reading about the CC and began coming up with a character bio if I ever played as them.
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How would you do that? Roll got a Dependent twice.
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Huh, so it seems. Forgot that.
Of course, the Centauri Lancers could end up leaving Tamar service quickly...
Looks like before their Tamar contract, they seem to have been in the Lyran service, since 3130 at least. Post-Jihad, they were in FedSuns service, so art could take be from Victoria War but didn't find references to the Lancers in Wars of the Republic Era.
So, perhaps the art just depicts some Third Succession War battle/raid that happened to pit the Warrior House Imarra against the Lancers?
If so, a pity. Would've made a good basis for some force building. Still, gotta consider the House Imarra, the cover provides a good reference for painting.
I meant to ask--how did you ID the 21st Centauri Lancers?
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So, perhaps the art just depicts some Third Succession War battle/raid that happened to pit the Warrior House Imarra against the Lancers?
The legends book mentions Romano Liao going on about a 5-year tear up and down marik space on her own personal war to avenge a dead lover- A perfect moment in the 3SW for such a fight...
(and a good shrapnel story, hmmm -pulls out note pad, takes notes...- ;-)
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I meant to ask--how did you ID the 21st Centauri Lancers?
Troopers at the front, one has gray-black 21st Centauri Lancers emblem on their arm.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1540/0075/products/E-CAT35007_BattleTechCampaignOperations3rdPrint-1_1024x1024.png?v=1644339280
At least i'm pretty sure it is 21st Centauri Lancers emblem, really couldn't figure what else it could be.
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Zoomed in pic, pretty clear IMO.
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Fellow Capellan players: how do you use the Goliath 3L? It feels like I'm missing something and that there must be some trick to using it well.
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Fellow Capellan players: how do you use the Goliath 3L? It feels like I'm missing something and that there must be some trick to using it well.
Think of it as a larger Scorpion, using speed to maintain long range engagements, with MML7s defend against light hunters.
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What else is in this unit? That depends on is it a Fire Support, Calvary or Anchor position. If I was running two or more, Calvary hit and run... As an anchor, use it to give the unit in question a solid rally point, but if it's for fire support, lay down mini- minefields and terrorize at range. Use hull down / prone positions and Level 1 terrain to give you more modifiers.
And above all Xin Sheng!
TT
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Fellow Capellan players: how do you use the Goliath 3L? It feels like I'm missing something and that there must be some trick to using it well.
I painted one for my Dynasty Guard lance and have used it a few times now. It's not optimized especially regarding heat. The lance is a stealth cavalry lance and its seems to do best when I use it as a brawler. It's kicks combined with pulse laser and SRM fire are pretty deadly. While closing rapidly use stealth and fire LRMs to stay heat neutral. If I get stuck at long range it kind of disappoints. You can sit still with stealth on and alternate ERPPC and one LRM rack.
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Any ideas why Daoshen isn't allowing Warrior House Fujita to reform in the DA? FM:3145 had the House Master claim his warriors were ready, but the Chancellor refused to allocate any 'Mechs and refused to have them in CELESTIAL REWARD, prompting the Master to off himself. It's also said Daoshen holds them only slightly above the Lu Sann who almost got him captured/killed during the Crusades. What's the story there?
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I mean it's Daoshen, maybe they just didn't kiss his ass with eneugh intensity?
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Any ideas why Daoshen isn't allowing Warrior House Fujita to reform in the DA? FM:3145 had the House Master claim his warriors were ready, but the Chancellor refused to allocate any 'Mechs and refused to have them in CELESTIAL REWARD, prompting the Master to off himself. It's also said Daoshen holds them only slightly above the Lu Sann who almost got him captured/killed during the Crusades. What's the story there?
My read of that same entry is that they were rebuilt by Daoshen during the Capellan Crusades and then destroyed fighting the Republic, and he holds them in disdain for their failure in that regard. Trying to hunt down direct confirmation at the moment.
EDIT: Nope, at least going by H:WotRE, they did not. Yeah, I guess Daoshen just doesn't like their faces or something.
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Fellow Capellan players, do you mix "foreign" designs into your forces?
I've been thinking of using the Penetrator, Jagermech or Shadow Hawk 5D from the recaptured plant on Victoria. Or maybe some captured RotS hardware or clan Sea Fox designs that appear on our IlClan MUL.
What if any of these have you used and liked? Or disliked?
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If it is on MUL list, it is no longer "foreign" ;D
Have to say i'm happy to see the Malice on CapCon list. I keep toying with the idea of expanding my Capellan force with a Dark Age lance. At least the Tian-Zong, Shen Yi, figure the Malice would fit in well. But i should get around assembling and painting my Cappies first perhaps.
As a general rule, Capellans have rarely said no to 'Mechs, foreign or not. For example the Enforcer 4R was in use for some time after the St. Ives War brought some to the CapCon. Though the Dark Age CapCon has plenty of native 'Mech production, that doesn't mean foreign 'Mechs should be wasted.
I'll note the CapCon spent effort to specifically capture some, like the Wolverine 10R factory. (6/9/6 Wolverine with Targeting Computer and Snub-Nose PPC, pretty good.)
So, go for it if it feels fun or good.
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Fellow Capellan players, do you mix "foreign" designs into your forces?
I've been thinking of using the Penetrator, Jagermech or Shadow Hawk 5D from the recaptured plant on Victoria. Or maybe some captured RotS hardware or clan Sea Fox designs that appear on our IlClan MUL.
What if any of these have you used and liked? Or disliked?
where did it say the Shadowhawk penatrator and jagermech are produced on victoria?
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where did it say the Shadowhawk penatrator and jagermech are produced on victoria?
FM: 3145, p. 29
Apparently the Haseks sold the ruined Shengli Arms plant to Kallon right after the Victoria War. The plant was retaken intact by the CCAF in 3144.
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Looks like the JagerMech models would be JM7-F, JM7-C3BS, III JM6-D4, as these are available to CapCon in MUL.
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4391/jagermech-jm7-f
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1673/jagermech-iii-jm6-d4
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1671/jagermech-jm7-c3bs
The Penetrator would be the 4D model, or possibly the as of yet unpublished 7D.
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2465/penetrator-ptr-4d
The Shadow Hawk would probably be the 5D model as it is the sole D-type Shad for CapCon and appears in the Dark Age for them.
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2905/shadow-hawk-shd-5d
Naturally some stuff in MUL could be salvage rather than factory production. But in case of the latter two, i'm pretty sure they're factory stuff.
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I'm still curious if any of my fellow citizens have had a chance to run the Kontio in their forces?
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I'm still curious if any of my fellow citizens have had a chance to run the Kontio in their forces?
Sadly not yet. What kind of lance would you build around such a specialist?
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I think of melee mechs as head hunter units. They go after LRM support while using some variety of ECM, C3, and TAG to deal with these lances as they often contain unit commanders.
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FM: 3145, p. 29
Apparently the Haseks sold the ruined Shengli Arms plant to Kallon right after the Victoria War. The plant was retaken intact by the CCAF in 3144.
conveniant how the fedsuns got seemingly nothing but ruined factories then they took it, but the cappies then got some favored mechs. ::)
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I think the ghost bears/wolves (the clan users) have an easier time of it as their extra mech gives an edge.
In theory I’d use a Kontio, a Ti Ts’ang, and some sniper cover. Maybe a Heuron Warrior to try and keep up.
Or for a Shadow Lance I’d use 2 Kontio, a Tian-Zong and a stealth sniper Cataphract (or two of either). To augment It I’d go with Pixiu tanks or Stealth Regulators. Two melee brawlers to force things out and then snipers to either pin in place or capitalize when they escape the brawlers. Pixiu or Regulator to shore up close/long range. I’d also say some Stealth Pos but they are too slow.
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I think the ghost bears/wolves (the clan users) have an easier time of it as their extra mech gives an edge.
In theory I’d use a Kontio, a Ti Ts’ang, and some sniper cover. Maybe a Heuron Warrior to try and keep up.
Or for a Shadow Lance I’d use 2 Kontio, a Tian-Zong and a stealth sniper Cataphract (or two of either). To augment It I’d go with Pixiu tanks or Stealth Regulators. Two melee brawlers to force things out and then snipers to either pin in place or capitalize when they escape the brawlers. Pixiu or Regulator to shore up close/long range. I’d also say some Stealth Pos but they are too slow.
My experience with other melee mechs is that you need to have a few major threats rushing the enemy in order to split their fire enough to make contact. I'd probably pair the Kontio with a Ti Ts'ang and some big gun brawlers like Thunders and Lao Hus.
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What is everyone's favorite TSEMP delivery platform?
I'm torn between:
Catapult II
Men Shen G
Raven II
But leaning towards the Men Shen especially in Alpha Strike games where it also deals a reliable 3 damage.
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My favorite is no TSEMP. Stuns with no counter-play are not fun. And if a stun has poor odds like the Taser does, it ain't even fun for the user.
Style-wise, i'll pick the Catapult II, looks cool. And two TSEMPs make it easier to actually shut down enemy target or you can alternate them to fire a TSEMP every turn as TSEMPs have one turn cooldown.
Logically the Men Shen is an ideal platform being an OmniMech and TSEMP being a thing that is not always ideal or needed (as it causes interference in the firing unit).
No idea how TSEMP works in AS though.
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My favorite is no TSEMP. Stuns with no counter-play are not fun. And if a stun has poor odds like the Taser does, it ain't even fun for the user.
No idea how TSEMP works in AS though.
In AS it's simplified in ways that make it easier to use with less downside.
I am mainly looking at it for tournament play where I wouldn't mind having every advantage even if there is a whiff of cheese to it.
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The TSEMP's advanced level equipment though. Even if a tournament is using Dark Age's adjusted TL equipment, the TSEMP is not part of that. If BMM-tech in a game, the TSEMP is not included.
Jut something to consider.
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The TSEMP's advanced level equipment though. Even if a tournament is using Dark Age's adjusted TL equipment, the TSEMP is not part of that. If BMM-tech in a game, the TSEMP is not included.
Jut something to consider.
That's a good point I had forgotten. I'm pretty sure it only applies to TW so I will probably mod a Men Shen G for my WNRP350 list and just use it for Alpha Strike.
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Ah sure, no idea what's tournament legal for AS and what's not.
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TSEMP or not I have to say that after playing Capellans for less than a year, I find their forces have a tool for everything and lots of synergy and character. It's been a blast. Xin Sheng!
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I keep reworking my Capellan lances. At least i've assembled most of them... had assembled all, but i made additions and changes.
Three companies. As i always planned though differently nowadays from my original plan... All are for FedCom Civil War era, from 3061 onward.
House Hiritsu, with most designs being Xin Sheng ones except a "TRO3055" lance with Wraith, Snake, Thunder and Huron Warrior. Least changed of all my plans.
Second is a St. Ives company, probably 2nd St. Ives Lancers. For CapCon-St. Ives War, and afterwards just another Capellan unit. Not very advanced technologically overall, as five designs are introductory level. Probably need to figure out advanced variants for those, figure things like Cataphract 1X are rather dated when the Jihad begins.
Third is unusual: The Shin Legion. I determined i have many minis of 'Mechs common to the House Kurita (result of getting a lot of Star League 'Mechs) but that would mean i can't actually do a FRR unit as well as that needs to be mix of Kurita, Steiner and ComStar. But i figured that if i make a Shin Legion company with some Capellan 'Mechs and mostly Kuritan designs, i'll make effective use of my options.
Here's the lineup for the Shin Legion company:
Recon Lance:
Raptor Light RTX1-O Missile Boat*
Jenner Light JN7-K Striker
Raven Light RVN-3L Scout
Kintaro Medium KTO-19 Skirmisher
Heavy Striker Lance:
Cataphract Heavy CTF-3L Sniper
Lancelot Heavy LNC25-01 Skirmisher
Exterminator Heavy EXT-4D Skirmisher
Charger Assault CGR-3K Skirmisher
Direct Fire Lance:
Avatar Heavy AV1-O Brawler*
Catapult Heavy CPLT-K3 Sniper
Mauler Assault MAL-1R Sniper
Atlas Assault AS7-K Sniper
The Charger 3K and Atlas K are used by Capellans and Dracs both, Avatars are used by anyone, and the Raven and Cataphract are very Capellan. Per FMDC, the Shin Legion received Star League-era designs circa 3051, hence the Lancelot, Kinta and Exterminator. Figure this makes the unit interesting unusual for Capellans.
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Shin Legion is a really under represented unit. I like your interpretation.
Have you thought about battle armor support for the warrior house?
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Shin Legion is a really under represented unit. I like your interpretation.
Have you thought about battle armor support for the warrior house?
Unfortunately i may end up cancelling the Shin Legion plan for stupidest of reasons: ran out of superglue to assemble minis and i can't get new right away. And i'd really prefer to get to painting sooner than later so i'm thinking i'll stop assembling minis here. Can't sort out my minis to proper forces without few i didn't get to assemble, so i came up with new forces but this required dropping the Shin Legion.
This said, i'm very much keeping the idea alive. And depending how ilKhan era will go, i might actually do an unusual step and do my own House unit styled after the Shin Legion in that it would use mix of Capellan and Kuritan units. The Unity Pact and its unstable nature, and Capellans and Kuritas sharing border makes this rather possible. Or i'll just do Shin Legion that works as my own reborn Shin Legion, to make it work for both eras.
The Shin Legion has extra benefit in that for 3030s and early Clan Invasion games it can be played as a Kurita unit.
EDIT This possibly with the next set of miniatures i intend to get.
As for battle armor, my very original idea was to eventually expand these units to nearly battalion sizes, with a company of vehicles and and a platoon of battle armor (with transports if necessary). But cost and availability of units has essentially derailed these plans. Maybe someday, but not anytime soon.
Potential House Hiritsu expansion probably shouldn't have a full company of vehicles but perhaps several platoons of infantry in place of most vehicles, Hiritsu Infantry Battalion had a lance of Heavy LRM Carriers around St. Ives War though. Definitively the first unit i'll expand if i'll get a chance to do that.
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This said, i'm very much keeping the idea alive. And depending how ilKhan era will go, i might actually do an unusual step and do my own House unit styled after the Shin Legion in that it would use mix of Capellan and Kuritan units. The Unity Pact and its unstable nature, and Capellans and Kuritas sharing border makes this rather possible. Or i'll just do Shin Legion that works as my own reborn Shin Legion, to make it work for both eras.
The Shin Legion has extra benefit in that for 3030s and early Clan Invasion games it can be played as a Kurita unit.
If you want an IlClan era unit with some DCMS designs mixed in, I wonder if the 4th MAC wouldn't be a good starting point. We don't know how salvage was worked out in their withdrawal from Northwind but they might have dragged off a few of the House Kurita mechs they downed.
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If you want an IlClan era unit with some DCMS designs mixed in, I wonder if the 4th MAC wouldn't be a good starting point. We don't know how salvage was worked out in their withdrawal from Northwind but they might have dragged off a few of the House Kurita mechs they downed.
Huh, where was this, Shattered Fortress?
Interesting possibility, though i don't like the 4th MAC paint scheme much. Have considered 1st MAC but kinda low on my priority list.
Really hope the CC-DC border stays for some time, offers an interesting alternative, more enemies.
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Huh, where was this, Shattered Fortress?
Described in Shattered Fortress, in general terms; get the ground-level viewpoint in Michael Ciaravella's Highlander Covenant duology (Grey Watch Protocol and Paid In Blood).
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Looks like the Cappies sent 4th MAC, 1st Canopian Lancers, House Imarra and Laurel's Legion to Northwind. But the fight against Kuritas seems to have been by 4th MAC only, i read the section from Shattered Fortress right (p92 onward).
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Looks like the Cappies sent 4th MAC, 1st Canopian Lancers, House Imarra and Laurel's Legion to Northwind. But the fight against Kuritas seems to have been by 4th MAC only, i read the section from Shattered Fortress right (p92 onward).
I admit I only knew what was in the recent Highlander novels.
On a side note, despite issues in those books, I though Sang Shao Lindsey Baxter was a strong character that deserves more fiction appearances. We need more than Danai to rep the CCAF officer corp in the IlClan era.
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Hi, I'm curious about some lore questions.
I know the CCAF was gutted in the 4th SW, but exactly how much is lost in the war?
Does anyone have a TO&E comparison for the CCAF before and after the 4th SW?
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Looking at Xotl's RATs, which include some relevant information like force sizes in 'Mech regiments (sourced from actual official stuff), the CCAF had 40ish regiments when the 4th Succession War started, and when the War of '39 started, the RATs estimate a bit over 11 regiments.
In other words, the CCAF probably lost roughly 75% of its 'Mech forces. Or even more, and did some rebuilding afterwards.
That 11+ regiments stayed until 3050s when they seem to have started really rebuilding.
Specifics probably can be found from some books though i'm uncertain where.
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I'll bet a full regiment is the Arrow armed Urbie.
TT
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Hi, I'm curious about some lore questions.
I know the CCAF was gutted in the 4th SW, but exactly how much is lost in the war?
Does anyone have a TO&E comparison for the CCAF before and after the 4th SW?
Check out this thread. It has the answers you seek.
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/the-successor-states/ccaf-in-the-4th-sw/30/
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So, fellow citizens, does anyone have any opinions about the new Vindicator? Personally, I'm in love, but I will wait to wax poetic until others have had their turn.
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The new Vindicator is a work of art. I love how it doubles down on it's reputation of being nigh unkillable.
Between it, the Wraith and the tanks, the CCAF has gotten some really nice new toys.
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I assume we're talking about the plastic mini? It looks so good. Having it in the beginner's box will also introduce a lot of new players to this great mech and faction. Can't wait for new record sheets.
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I assume we're talking about the plastic mini? It looks so good. Having it in the beginner's box will also introduce a lot of new players to this great mech and faction. Can't wait for new record sheets.
I imagine they're talking about the new varient in the recguide. with a Clan ER PPC, CASE II protecting the ammo, reinforced structure. she's a beaut.
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Hot damn. I missed that issue!
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It also gives the Capellans the Wraith as a domestic product, some nice Bulldog variants, new Demolishers. And they also partake in the new Pegasus which just works. Overall, a good haul for the CCAF all around.
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The TR5 Wraith is a thing of beauty, & I say that as someone who was skeptical of any Wraith with a smaller engine. For me, it's probably the single best thing in the RecGuides.
I really could have done without another 4/6 Vindicator, though. Reinforced structure be damned, with its primary and precious main weapon being arm-mounted it can be rendered combat ineffective very quickly without having to kill it outright. The inevitable 8L Vindicator needs to be 5/8 or better.
The upgrades of the combat vehicles aren't particularly exciting but were all much needed and long overdue. Glad to see everything coming up Fuel Cell!
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I talked with someone in the know and they said the Vindicator was really limited by WYSIWYG especially the leg mounted jump jets. I'm just glad it offers something new (headcapper).
The Wraith I'm actually more skeptical off because the TR1 is such a good backstabber already for less BV.
Looking at vol. 26 last night, I think the Flea 21 is another decent stealth backstabber but I rarely see conventional infantry on the board.
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I'm a little surprised the VND-7L didn't get CR in Alpha Strike rules.
Has anyone tried the Galleon 201 yet? I'm thinking it needs some precision ammo and some fa Shih riding the top.
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I'm a little surprised the VND-7L didn't get CR in Alpha Strike rules.
Has anyone tried the Galleon 201 yet? I'm thinking it needs some precision ammo and some fa Shih riding the top.
Reinforced only gives a -1 in classic so it doesnt qualify for CR. I asked the same thing about the Mastodon
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Question for the Cappie fans.
I am working on painting up some 2nd MAC forces.
The FM & Camo Specs both mention that each battalion has a different "highlight" color.
But I can't find any info on what those colors are.
The pictures on Camospecs both seem to use some purple as the highlight so I'm guessing that is 1 of the 3.
At first I was thinking something like Red-White-Blue for 1st-2nd-3rd Battalion but then I saw the Purple, so just looking for any concrete info or more images I can go off of.
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Neither the FM:CC nor the MAC sourcebook gives any specific colors. The FM actually says "chosen by the battalion" which is ambiguous but might mean put up for a vote from time to time or chosen by the Major/Sang Shoa at each change of command.
I would say that means you can't go wrong with any idea. I almost suggested Liao green for 1st battalion but the MAC are no suck ups. I like your suggestions.
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I don't know if this helps, but there's a full-color image of Danai Centrella-Liao's new Black Knight in the MechWarrior Legends book, and since she leads the 2nd MAC in the Dark Age, maybe that might make for a good place to start?
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I don't know if this helps, but there's a full-color image of Danai Centrella-Liao's new Black Knight in the MechWarrior Legends book, and since she leads the 2nd MAC in the Dark Age, maybe that might make for a good place to start?
Thank you Tassa, that image is in IlClan too & I saw it there but its just a tiny bit different w/o the Gold Highlighting on the limbs.
So Purple & Gold seem to be options at least.
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Gold in Capellan livery denotes the Chancellor's favor, so make sure if you use it for a battalion, it's for one in The Celestial Wisdom's good graces!
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Gold in Capellan livery denotes the Chancellor's favor, so make sure if you use it for a battalion, it's for one in The Celestial Wisdom's good graces!
Yes, which is why the 1st St. Ives Lancers (who previously trimmed their 'Mechs in yellow) switched to trimming their 'Mechs in ivory.
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it's for one in The Celestial Wisdom's good graces!
Can anyone really be there for long?
Such a fickle (mentally unstable) leadership line must lead to lots of repainting (On top of all the purges)
Seriously though, yeah, I know Gold is the Chancellor's color, but I can't imagine the MAC being bad off for long.
Really though I was just hoping their was some sort of info somewhere but it seems it comes down to random artist choice (I found some minis on reddit where the highlight was light green)
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So, fellow citizens, does anyone have any opinions about the new Vindicator? Personally, I'm in love, but I will wait to wax poetic until others have had their turn.
Only just came across it this week, but already in love with it and can't wait to throw one or two down on the table to kill some Davionistas.
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Only just came across it this week, but already in love with it and can't wait to throw one or two down on the table to kill some Davionistas.
First things first. You gotta go kill some Wolves with em first
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I'd rather kill Davionistas, who deserve it far, far more than the Wolves do (from a Capellan perspective).
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Only just came across it this week, but already in love with it and can't wait to throw one or two down on the table to kill some Davionistas.
One or two. That's one thing I like about it. Still reasonably priced in BV for its era. It still works in pairs.
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I was very disapointed i missed out on the barnes and noble sale for a new BB. The capellans have really grown on me, and the Vindicator is one of the few Capellan stalwarts in plastic. The new one is very impressive too
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Only just came across it this week, but already in love with it and can't wait to throw one or two down on the table to kill some Davionistas.
It looks good but I've only seen it on the box & web, my copy won't get here till January, did that Humble Bundle thing earlier this month.
I'm already debating on the unit/colors, I'm thinking it will go with my Death Commandos since I recently repurposed a duplicate mini from that lance to a different unit w/ similar paint scheme after a little touch up work & now I'm short a mech for them.
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One curious thing from Empire Alone I haven't see talked about here yet: Apparently Ceres Metals of all people are building a new factory on Loongana for Tamarind-Abbey. If I'm not mistaken, that's gonna be their first factory outside of the Confederation?
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One curious thing from Empire Alone I haven't see talked about here yet: Apparently Ceres Metals of all people are building a new factory on Loongana for Tamarind-Abbey. If I'm not mistaken, that's gonna be their first factory outside of the Confederation?
They also have a factory on Lockton in the MoC.
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Ceres Metals has always been listed as an International corperation, like Star Corps. It's just that the military factories were situated in the Confederation.
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Huh, the more you know. Thank you for broadening my horizon :thumbsup:
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Does anyone have experience with the SNK-2Br Snake? I'm thinking of doing a mod with the Omni firestarter right arm to mimic the twin plasma rifles and I can't decide if it would be more effective in TW or AS rules. The heat management is easier in AS, but the effect on battle armor is greater in TW.
Anybody tried it?
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Does anyone have experience with the SNK-2Br Snake? I'm thinking of doing a mod with the Omni firestarter right arm to mimic the twin plasma rifles and I can't decide if it would be more effective in TW or AS rules. The heat management is easier in AS, but the effect on battle armor is greater in TW.
Anybody tried it?
I've ran the calliope and i LOVE it against Vees and Bubbas! undergunned against mechs, of course. I've never taken THAT model of snake, but a) the chassis is similar to the calliope and thus, b) it has the same issues.
The only anti-BA mech that really is decent at EVERYTHING is the komodo: GAWD I love the lil nova wanna-be, and she's deadly against Vees, bubbas, mechs its weight or lighter... just a good all-around scrapper to add to the lance. :-)
(PS, FWIW, the Unique Variant Snake with the twin LLs is just a silly little fun beast, well worth trying out once, too!)
hope this helps!
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Thanks! I appreciate the perspective. Right now I'm towards Playing this Snake in AS where it benefits from rounding to have simple heat management even with stealth armor.
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Thanks! I appreciate the perspective. Right now I'm towards Playing this Snake in AS where it benefits from rounding to have simple heat management even with stealth armor.
That's one of the things I like about AS: because of the "rounding" as you called it, some gloriously great mechs turn out ok. but OTHERS, like the Cobra, the Snake, the BattleCobra, many of the masakaris & turkinas: their weaknesses go away and they are GLORIOUS in AS.
It really helps give the game its owb vibe, with its own "meta" and commonly-seen mechs versus what you'd expect on the Table Top
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It really helps give the game its owb vibe, with its own "meta" and commonly-seen mechs versus what you'd expect on the Table Top
Agreed completely.
Intro Jagermech for example
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it also makes some of the mechs that have a "good in universe rep, bad game states" work a bit better...
Looking at you shadowhawk!
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So true. I spent two days modding a Vindicator 6L only to realize it's severely underpowered in TW. Into the AS force it goes!
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Comparing the new ASN-109 to the old ASN-99, I'm trying to figure out how it's an improvement.
I use the -99 as a mobile TAG spotter alongside the Raven 5L. The sword, while not my favorite, gives it a decent chance to hit when backstabbing.
Not sure I see a good role for the -109 yet that couldn't be done more cheaply by the Wasp 7MAF.
Thoughts?
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The Assassin is the Assassin. That is, it is bad. Hard to make it even mediocre.
The new Assassin does offer option for multiple specialty ammo loads (up to 3, if you don't mind having only one shot of one type) and 5-tube launcher is better for many than just 2-tube one, but this isn't a big benefit overall. The Angel ECM may be useful if used for interference though naturally this means giving up stealth. But the Angel is easily found among Capellan 'Mechs anyway
Think the LPPC hurts the Assassin. The range is nice, but with the good mobility medium lasers tend to have enough range, so the weight could've gone to beefing up missile armament (insofar WYSIWYG RecGuide variant allows).
For high mobility, the Capellans have, for example, the Wraith and the Dola. For recon or missiles or general support, the Raven 5L or Raven II do fine job.
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In 3rd Succession War play, the Assassin ranked in the top 3 recon mechs out there. Possibly as number 1.
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Think the LPPC hurts the Assassin. The range is nice, but with the good mobility medium lasers tend to have enough range, so the weight could've gone to beefing up missile armament (insofar WYSIWYG RecGuide variant allows).
For high mobility, the Capellans have, for example, the Wraith and the Dola. For recon or missiles or general support, the Raven 5L or Raven II do fine job.
Agreed. I was really hoping for a MVSPL or even a SNPPC. The LPPC is a bummer.
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So as a spoiler from Dominions Divided
One of the images depicts the Cordinator meeting with individuals from the MAC. Could the MAC be about to go mercenary?
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So as a spoiler from Dominions Divided
One of the images depicts the Cordinator meeting with individuals from the MAC. Could the MAC be about to go mercenary?
I hope not, I have them as my dedicated Capellan paint scheme.
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I hope not, I have them as my dedicated Capellan paint scheme.
Yeah that'd definatly suck if it happens. I suspect you'll be in the company of a LOT of capellan players....
but hey! it just means you've got a new merc unit to play with anywhere!
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Yeah that'd definatly suck if it happens. I suspect you'll be in the company of a LOT of capellan players....
but hey! it just means you've got a new merc unit to play with anywhere!
I don’t want a merc unit, I want capellans. Or Mercs who are basically capellans for any time period I am looking to play.
I put arguably too much effort into finding units for each clan and house that lasted effectively forever. I wouldn’t be so mad if I actually hadn’t started painting them. I think I am doing pretty good on picking units tho, if I only lose on I’ll be less mad (I won’t say happy lol)
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So as a spoiler from Dominions Divided
One of the images depicts the Cordinator meeting with individuals from the MAC. Could the MAC be about to go mercenary?
Well after their treatment by the Chancellor as found in IlClan, I could see how the writers might have planned this. Hm.
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I don’t want a merc unit, I want capellans. Or Mercs who are basically capellans for any time period I am looking to play.
I put arguably too much effort into finding units for each clan and house that lasted effectively forever. I wouldn’t be so mad if I actually hadn’t started painting them. I think I am doing pretty good on picking units tho, if I only lose on I’ll be less mad (I won’t say happy lol)
post Jihad a number of merc units became regulars and it seems the trend is moving towards reversing that now.. as one of the ceti hussar regiments is going back to being the Lexington Combat group.
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Agreed. I was really hoping for a MVSPL or even a SNPPC. The LPPC is a bummer.
I have no idea what the stats are, but for a WYSIWYG, I could see an LPPC+MML5+2ML as a solid load out with some CASE & electronics to flavor.
Sniping or striking in close either way it has some bite.
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Well after their treatment by the Chancellor as found in IlClan, I could see how the writers might have planned this. Hm.
Would be surprised if the entire Brigade jumped ship, but could see a Regiment or two going back to their beginings.
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The old romantic mercenary schtick just might be returning to Battletech. This enables chaotic plot chicanery. Furthermore, it was a part of the old Battletech atmosphere, with several of the most favored novels being of that theme.
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The old romantic mercenary schtick just might be returning to Battletech. This enables chaotic plot chicanery. Furthermore, it was a part of the old Battletech atmosphere, with several of the most favored novels being of that theme.
honestly that's my gut feeling too, the Jihad and Republic eras did everything possiable to kill mercenaries off, (really the fedcom civil war era was the start seeing several pretigious merc units like the GDL killed, the MAC absorbed into the CCAF) I think the devs are moving to really make mercs a key factor in the next era. And thats a good thing. Mercenaries are battletech's "your guys" and that's important, doubly so now that the plastic mechs have seen a resurgance in an intreast in the Mini side of things
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My contribution to the discussion: my lance of 'Classic' Capellan designs. Or... at least what CGL has to offer at the moment.
I know there's some debate about whether or not the Highlander is a Capellan mech, but they got the lion's share of them, then ran them into the ground after they lost the production facility, but it's still a design I associate with them.
So, what do you think? (https://i.postimg.cc/ZYDFxqBY/PXL-20230127-062504737.jpg)
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Gorgeous!
And, I kinda always associate old, 3025 Highlanders with the FWLM or LCAF, and YET, I literally wrote a CCAF one into my ELH story! How funny!
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So as a spoiler from Dominions Divided
One of the images depicts the Cordinator meeting with individuals from the MAC. Could the MAC be about to go mercenary?
I think it's the likeliest explanation. But it could also be officers presenting the captured regimental flag to her.
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I think it's the likeliest explanation. But it could also be officers presenting the captured regimental flag to her.
Not DCMS officers. Those are Capellan military uniforms.
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Part of the beauty of the older picture of the 3rd is that militaries were supposed to field whatever they got their hands on. Sure, they might be difficult to maintain, but people would do anything in their power to avoid being dispossessed. States would do anything in their power to keep mechs running.
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The Highlander is definitely a classic Capellan Mech, based on the redone availability. They had the Northwind Highlanders as part of their army for ages. They had both Hollis Industries and Star Corps plants capable of building them for several years, decades, or even centuries before they went back and forth between them, Marik and Davion. The Highlander can be seen as an inspiration for the Vindicator.
They're both tough, generalist low speed troopers that uses jump jets for better mobility. They can be the linchpin of a lance and work great in groups. Plus, the Capellans need a break during the later Succession Wars. The Highlander is a nice gift for that time.
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The Highlander is definitely a classic Capellan Mech, based on the redone availability.
I'm not sure I'd call a dozen mechs a year split between the LyrCom & CapCom as being a "Classic" anything.
Its a SLDF mech that eeked out a few rebuilds for the Cappies in the introtech era but never moved past that.
The Lyran's seemed to turn it back into a common mech when the put it back into production & created new variants in the 50's
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yeah gonna agree with hellriser, it seems to be more a Lyran mech then a capcon...
as awesome as a stealth highlander would be
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Cappies seem to have somewhat large stocks of introtech Highlanders. Per MUL, they are with the Lyrans the only faction to use all three variants commonly through the Succession Wars, thus we can reasonably establish the Highlander as a Capellan 'Mech, though obviously not an iconic one.
Xotl's RATs also has this distribution.
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Oh, I'm not saying its not usable by them or anything.
Just that I wouldn't call it Iconic or Classic.
Its no Vindicator, Raven, or Cataphract when it comes to "identifying" with the faction to me.
That said yes, they were 1 of 2 factions rebuilding them in the SW so at least that kept it in use where it went pretty defunct for everyone else.
I'd certainly put one in a cappy force in the 3rd SW if I had a spare mini.
Just not 3-4 in a company like I'd do w/ Vindi's
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I think it's the likeliest explanation. But it could also be officers presenting the captured regimental flag to her.
Another simple option, though a bit of a stretch, is officers of MAC were sent as envoys to help reforge their alliance to go after the Wolves together. Essentially sending military leaders instead of a diplomat as some form of respect
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Another simple option, though a bit of a stretch, is officers of MAC were sent as envoys to help reforge their alliance to go after the Wolves together. Essentially sending military leaders instead of a diplomat as some form of respect
maybe we'll see, as it is the DCMS getting the MAC in thier service could be the differance between death and stalemate for the combine, what with the impending rassalhugian invasion coming
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Yeah. Too little info to tell. Just a good fun piece of art making people theorize.
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I doubt it's a coincidence that, on the page immediately preceding said art, there's a little blurb about the Combine's use of mercenaries.
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I have no idea what the stats are, but for a WYSIWYG, I could see an LPPC+MML5+2ML as a solid load out with some CASE & electronics to flavor.
Sniping or striking in close either way it has some bite.
This would have been good. Oh well the Confederation has done pretty well in these rec guides so there was bound to be a dud.
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I don’t want a merc unit, I want capellans. Or Mercs who are basically capellans for any time period I am looking to play.
I put arguably too much effort into finding units for each clan and house that lasted effectively forever. I wouldn’t be so mad if I actually hadn’t started painting them. I think I am doing pretty good on picking units tho, if I only lose on I’ll be less mad (I won’t say happy lol)
I hear you. In fact I'm slow rolling my IlClan Era painting now that it looks like a big showdown between the CCAF and the SLDF. Kind of what to find out which units get wasted first...
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I hear you. In fact I'm slow rolling my IlClan Era painting now that it looks like a big showdown between the CCAF and the SLDF. Kind of what to find out which units get wasted first...
well assuming the MAC does leave capellan service I can't imagine it being an amicable divorce. I'd expect a misery style show down....
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well assuming the MAC does leave capellan service I can't imagine it being an amicable divorce. I'd expect a misery style show down....
That would be AMAZING to read!
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That would be AMAZING to read!
Wolves on the border is one of my all time favorite battletech books, a MAC based one that took a similer approuch would be amazing. Start in say.. the 3140s, and depict the MAC fighting alongside the tau ceti and the rest of the citizens honored, show friendships etc being built etc... and the eventual moment where bonds of comradere are snapped...
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Wolves on the border is one of my all time favorite battletech books, a MAC based one that took a similer approuch would be amazing. Start in say.. the 3140s, and depict the MAC fighting alongside the tau ceti and the rest of the citizens honored, show friendships etc being built etc... and the eventual moment where bonds of comradere are snapped...
Aw, don't give me a reason to actually like the MAC after all the stuff they pulled recently in the FedSuns.
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Wolves on the border is one of my all time favorite battletech books, a MAC based one that took a similer approuch would be amazing. Start in say.. the 3140s, and depict the MAC fighting alongside the tau ceti and the rest of the citizens honored, show friendships etc being built etc... and the eventual moment where bonds of comradere are snapped...
That's the best fan-book-pitch I read in a while. I'd buy that in a heartbeat.
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Aw, don't give me a reason to actually like the MAC after all the stuff they pulled recently in the FedSuns.
Not every member of the MAC would leave the Capellans. Let those that leave become the MACIE
(McCarron’s Armored Cavalry-in-exile). And yes this is my attempt to lighten the mood of the MAC.
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Not every member of the MAC would leave the Capellans. Let those that leave become the MACIE
(McCarron’s Armored Cavalry-in-exile). And yes this is my attempt to lighten the mood of the MAC.
I dunno, given the capcon, if your entire regiment went rogue I could see the VERY real fear of getting the blame for it hitting you too. I mean take a look at the orgins of the refounded Grey Death Legion...
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I think they’d have trouble leaving, they are tied into the economy (MTC) and the land itself, they have a landhold and they all have/got citizenship.
If I had to guess it will be Danai shower her father she’s no joke, an courting support outside of the CC
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I think they’d have trouble leaving, they are tied into the economy (MTC) and the land itself, they have a landhold and they all have/got citizenship.
If I had to guess it will be Danai shower her father she’s no joke, an courting support outside of the CC
ohh leaving would ABSOLUTELY hurt, no doubt about that but at the same time...
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I think they’d have trouble leaving, they are tied into the economy (MTC) and the land itself, they have a landhold and they all have/got citizenship.
If I had to guess it will be Danai shower her father she’s no joke, an courting support outside of the CC
Your Capellans May now be DCMS, and the DCMS unit I just finished painting just got wiped to a man on New Avalon. We’re two for two!
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Your Capellans May now be DCMS, and the DCMS unit I just finished painting just got wiped to a man on New Avalon. We’re two for two!
Maybe we can do two battles, give them their last hurrahs.
:o
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Your Capellans May now be DCMS, and the DCMS unit I just finished painting just got wiped to a man on New Avalon. We’re two for two!
To be fair, if your unit was the 5th sword of light you knew that sword of damocles was there for awhile now :)
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Your Capellans May now be DCMS, and the DCMS unit I just finished painting just got wiped to a man on New Avalon. We’re two for two!
😥 I've painted three IlClan Era units and now I feel foolish. Might be KO'd in IKEO.
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To be fair, this is all speculation for now. We don't know that the Big MAC is going to defect yet.
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To be fair, this is all speculation for now. We don't know that the Big MAC is going to defect yet.
maybe but perparing for the worst is always a good way to be pleasently suprised, until damocles sanction came out I was entirely willing to belive DD would end with the fedsuns fleet about to attack new avalon..
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maybe but perparing for the worst is always a good way to be pleasently suprised
It's also a good way to get people wailing and gnashing their teeth over unsubstantiated rumors.
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Well I will ship the wailing and just pause my IlClan 4th MAC project until we know more. I'm sure I won't be the only one.
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Well I will ship the wailing and just pause my IlClan 4th MAC project until we know more. I'm sure I won't be the only one.
Yeah, I’ll be ‘pausing’ 2 or 3 of my units until IKEO. Maybe it’ll inspire me to try my couple other units I haven’t touched in a long time.
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So what are going to do about these backstabbing Anduriens?
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So what are going to do about these backstabbing Anduriens?
Kick their adventurous rears for snatching Capellan worlds, then ensure they're returned to the fold where they belong.
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ensure they're returned to the fold where they belong.
The Free Worlds League?
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The Free Worlds League?
Pfft.
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New novel dropped! And the Chancellor is hiring mercenaries again!
Did we have any inkling this was coming? I only remember the Confederation terminated all Merc contracts per FM3145.
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We knew their Davion and Republic pushes have only been done because they had massive new commands being built and staffed with questionably trained recruits. So hiring mercs to relieve some pressure there, or more sensibly throw into the front and rotate Capellan commands off the front. So kinda.
I wonder how the units that got folded into the CCAF proper feel, the Citizens Honored and the MAC.
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New novel dropped! And the Chancellor is hiring mercenaries again!
It's not like he went all Drac "Death to Mercenaries" or anything. Sometimes you need extra help, other times you don't.
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The Clans hate mercenaries with a passion, so they make for excellent diversions.
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New novel dropped! And the Chancellor is hiring mercenaries again!
I missed this if it was announced; where can I find it?!
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I missed this if it was announced; where can I find it?!
https://bg.battletech.com/news/more-mercenaries-previews-new-miniature-free-record-sheets-and-adepticon-livestream-detail/
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The Clans hate mercenaries with a passion, so they make for excellent diversions.
Alaric hired mercs…
No other clan is close enough to care.
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New novel dropped! And the Chancellor is hiring mercenaries again!
Did we have any inkling this was coming? I only remember the Confederation terminated all Merc contracts per FM3145.
that to me suggests something between 3145 and 3151 has changed in Daoshen's strategic calcultations.
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that to me suggests something between 3145 and 3151 has changed in Daoshen's strategic calcultations.
I mean, that was already fairly obvious. Shattered Fortress was pretty damned eventful for the Capellans.
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I mean, that was already fairly obvious. Shattered Fortress was pretty damned eventful for the Capellans.
Also, it's entirely likely that with the Andurian offensive Daoshen is hiring mercs to keep the pressure on the former republic worlds, while he shifts line regiments back to the Sian Commonalty for an offensive there. it'd be a reasonably sound strategic decision.
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Also, it's entirely likely that with the Andurian offensive Daoshen is hiring mercs to keep the pressure on the former republic worlds, while he shifts line regiments back to the Sian Commonalty for an offensive there. it'd be a reasonably sound strategic decision.
I certainly hope that's the case. Daoshen may be a delusional megalomaniac, but he's not an idiot by any means, and there's just no way he'd let the situation with Andurien simmer for too long.
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Alaric hired mercs…
No other clan is close enough to care.
The plot of the game Ghost Bear's Legacy lays to bear how far the Wolves had fallen, from false flag attacks to literally hiring mercenaries to attack Alshain. This was a major plot point of that game..
In Alaric's case, differing factors are involved.
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The plot of the game Ghost Bear's Legacy lays to bear how far the Wolves had fallen, from false flag attacks to literally hiring mercenaries to attack Alshain. This was a major plot point of that game..
In Alaric's case, differing factors are involved.
is ghost bear's legacy even CANON?
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is ghost bear's legacy even CANON?
That is complicated. It might be better to say that since it is a game, that the elements exposing the desperation of Clan Wolf could be, but the very actions not explicitly. Both Clan Wolf and Jade Falcon are very desperate in this time period, which is canonical and well known among the fanbase. It in fact was a reason they escaped being targets for annihilation.
EDIT: I take that back, a source says that it was on the Official Battletech website. Look up a character Erick Tseng.
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So sadly Perceptions of Victory doesn't give us a lot of new Capellan material but we do get two new "mercenary" units. I put that in quotes because they seem like the old Ambermarle's Highlanders or Hamptons Hessens--composed entirely of Capellan nationals and using CCAF rank structure.
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So sadly Perceptions of Victory doesn't give us a lot of new Capellan material but we do get two new "mercenary" units. I put that in quotes because they seem like the old Ambermarle's Highlanders or Hamptons Hessens--composed entirely of Capellan nationals and using CCAF rank structure.
I don't think we've ever seen a merc unit using that kinda rank structure before. even merc units that are "defacto house units" typically use SLDF styled ranks..
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I don't think we've ever seen a merc unit using that kinda rank structure before. even merc units that are "defacto house units" typically use SLDF styled ranks..
This actually doesn't seem to be the case in the CCAF in FM:3145. We've got sang-shaos running Lockhardt's Ironsides, Laurel's Legion and the Tau Ceti Lancers and also within the ranks of the Big MAC.
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This actually doesn't seem to be the case in the CCAF in FM:3145. We've got sang-shaos running Lockhardt's Ironsides, Laurel's Legion and the Tau Ceti Lancers and also within the ranks of the Big MAC.
I thought they were formally inducted as CCAF line regiments in 3061, making them mercs no longer.
Waxie's Dargle and the Whirlwind Strikers are apparently homegrown mercs.
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Are those mercenaries or are those the "Citizens Honored"? I thought adopted mercenaries were included in the Citizens Honored brigade and then given Capellan ranks (the big exception of course MCarrons Armored Cavalry though that might be more for a sense of practicality to keep them together as a single brigade)
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This actually doesn't seem to be the case in the CCAF in FM:3145. We've got sang-shaos running Lockhardt's Ironsides, Laurel's Legion and the Tau Ceti Lancers and also within the ranks of the Big MAC.
those aren't mercenaries though Tassa, by 3150 those are house regulars and have been for nearly a century
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those aren't mercenaries though Tassa, by 3150 those are house regulars and have been for nearly a century
Ah, gotcha. I wasn't sure if these were the types of units you meant or not... they aren't de facto House units, they are House units. I get what you mean now.
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Are those mercenaries or are those the "Citizens Honored"? I thought adopted mercenaries were included in the Citizens Honored brigade and then given Capellan ranks (the big exception of course MCarrons Armored Cavalry though that might be more for a sense of practicality to keep them together as a single brigade)
Yup Citizens Honored and the "Capellan Brigade" and St. Ives Sentinels iirc. Four brigades of former mercs at one point when you include the MAC.
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Ah, gotcha. I wasn't sure if these were the types of units you meant or not... they aren't de facto House units, they are House units. I get what you mean now.
yeah when I was thinking defacto house units I was actually thinking units like the Illiican lancers, Federated Freemen etc. you're right that most of the long serving defacto house units in the CCAF became dejure house units in the 3060s
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Attention, fellow citizens! We have a new IlClan-era Jinggau model in the latest Shrapnel!
It's a sweet upgrade. I look forward to trying it out.
Xin Sheng!
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More than anything, I'm pleased with the new artwork. It looks proper menacing now.
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Attention, fellow citizens! We have a new IlClan-era Jinggau model in the latest Shrapnel!
It's a sweet upgrade. I look forward to trying it out.
Xin Sheng!
The 8Ar is insane, not necessarily because it’s better (although it is) but because it’s got the clan tech no one else really has, the clan Gauss rifle.
That combined with the other large amount of Clan tech seems to suggest the capellans have figured something out in terms of clan tech. I might have to get this shrapnel to see the story behind it.
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I would wait to see the MUL update. (Hint: Capellans aren't the only user anymore.)
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MUL update, citizens! We have three of the four new Jinggau variants which is more than I expected from the Shrapnel TRO entry.
I need another mini I think...
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The 8Ar is insane, not necessarily because it’s better (although it is) but because it’s got the clan tech no one else really has, the clan Gauss rifle.
That combined with the other large amount of Clan tech seems to suggest the capellans have figured something out in terms of clan tech. I might have to get this shrapnel to see the story behind it.
Or they conquered the right Republic planets to unlock the secrets to manufacture Clan tech en masse. Or simply managed to salvage stockpiles of unused Clan equipment from the RAF and possibly the Wolves from the undefended Wolf possesions
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Or they conquered the right Republic planets to unlock the secrets to manufacture Clan tech en masse. Or simply managed to salvage stockpiles of unused Clan equipment from the RAF and possibly the Wolves from the undefended Wolf possesions
No…look at the availability.
It’s a CHH special. That somehow spread to a bunch of people they don’t have contact with.
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No…look at the availability.
It’s a CHH special. That somehow spread to a bunch of people they don’t have contact with.
It makes no sense but until it's revised you won't find me complaining. 😆
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It makes no sense but until it's revised you won't find me complaining. 😆
Well, they created it, sooo... ;-) hahahaa
more than that (and it's REALLY clear with the AS cards) they used it to replace losses among Cauldron Borns: when you look at them less as cappie mechs but more as CB variants, they give the CHHs more options right in that 65-ton band. :-)
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Well, they created it, sooo... ;-) hahahaa
more than that (and it's REALLY clear with the AS cards) they used it to replace losses among Cauldron Borns: when you look at them less as cappie mechs but more as CB variants, they give the CHHs more options right in that 65-ton band. :-)
I meant it makes no sense that the CHH refit is available to Capellans but again, not complaining. 👍👍
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Ok so just read the fluff, and fighting a single capellan regiment in the 3070s was eneugh to bother giving the horses multiple varients? ... ok
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but the hells horses seem to be the writers favorite "....... we can't figure out who the ****** would make this give ti to...." faction :)
Think the Ravens just took that title with the Blood Asp, lol. Even the explanation given in the unit fluff feels super dodgy and contrived. The Ravens were in the midst of a hasty retreat from the Homeworlds and losing things left and right... and yet found the time and resources to pull off a Watch operation on the Adders' capital world and stole the plans? Mkay ;D
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Think the Ravens just took that title with the Blood Asp, lol. Even the explanation given in the unit fluff feels super dodgy and contrived. The Ravens were in the midst of a hasty retreat from the Homeworlds and losing things left and right... and yet found the time and resources to pull off a Watch operation on the Adders' capital world and stole the plans? Mkay ;D
and then waited 90 years to put it into production! let's not forget that
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and then waited 90 years to put it into production! let's not forget that
That one I kinda get because the Ravens were a hot mess when they arrived in the Outworlds and struggled to rebuild even into the Dark Age and ilClan eras. But still, the point stands. That Blood Asp should've gone to the Horses, damn it.
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That one I kinda get because the Ravens were a hot mess when they arrived in the Outworlds and struggled to rebuild even into the Dark Age and ilClan eras. But still, the point stands. That Blood Asp should've gone to the Horses, damn it.
or even the sea foxes. yeah I agree the snow ravens is an odd choice. but I say that as someone who wouldn't have been crying if the Ravens had never arrived in the Inner Sphere (if TPTB had really wanted to get rid of warships, preserving the warship clan was definatly an odd choice)
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or even the sea foxes. yeah I agree the snow ravens is an odd choice. but I say that as someone who wouldn't have been crying if the Ravens had never arrived in the Inner Sphere (if TPTB had really wanted to get rid of warships, preserving the warship clan was definatly an odd choice)
It is kind of weird. As it seems like it’s gonna set up the Bears to be on the opposite side with their two Leviathans.
I’m still nonplussed that the Horses got the variants started and the best one, 8Ar, spread to other factions they don’t touch.
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I like having the Raven Alliance around. It's nice seeing a Clan state fusion that isn't all sunshine and rainbows (Scorpion Empire; all of its charm from ISP3 is gone and now they're just amazing at everything) or sunshine and rainbows on the surface (the RasDom). The RA is a struggle bus and I find it charming. ;D Plus I'm not a fan of TPTB killing off WarShips. I get the reasoning, but I still dislike it immensely.
But enough about that. Cappies, damn it. :D
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It is kind of weird. As it seems like it’s gonna set up the Bears to be on the opposite side with their two Leviathans.
I’m still nonplussed that the Horses got the variants started and the best one, 8Ar, spread to other factions they don’t touch.
It looks, reading the fluff like the varients where mixed tech refits that became popular with the Jihad coalition and spread via it. with the dracs and Lyrans likely not having much of a source of Jigganu chassises and the ROTS prefering the CCr varient.
definatly a touch odd, but it's not the first time we've seen "salvage refits" of Capellan mechs. The Shattered Raven comes to mind. really The Cappies, especially in the Dark Age period should get some of their own answers to that. things like refit stealth enforcers or something
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It looks, reading the fluff like the varients where mixed tech refits that became popular with the Jihad coalition and spread via it. with the dracs and Lyrans likely not having much of a source of Jigganu chassises and the ROTS prefering the CCr varient.
definatly a touch odd, but it's not the first time we've seen "salvage refits" of Capellan mechs. The Shattered Raven comes to mind. really The Cappies, especially in the Dark Age period should get some of their own answers to that. things like refit stealth enforcers or something
Exactly- nations with both Jinggaus and Clan tech available received them. the refits are wicked easy: weapons, armor, heatsinks; I wanted the refits doable by a player character in AToW or destiny. :-)
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Musing inspired from another thread.
Just how much are Capellans likely to have near Terra right about June 3151? I understand we wouldn’t have a hard number, but I’m curious if there’s a good guess
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Musing inspired from another thread.
Just how much are Capellans likely to have near Terra right about June 3151? I understand we wouldn’t have a hard number, but I’m curious if there’s a good guess
In times yonder, Maximilian introduced a reform that granted the Confederation phenomenal strategic mobility. Assuming that said reform has only been continuously built on (And we do have reason to believe so), it is less a matter of immediate proximity, and more a matter of the ships being ready.
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well we know from Empire Alone the CCAF has basicly stripped their "southren border" of mech regiments, and presumably also, after the cease fire moved a number of regiments from their fedsuns border to the "Terran front"
However many of these worlds are recently conquered and thus almost certainly need a garrison to keep order and keep the planets in line (despite having once been capellan, the stone resettlement plans means many of the worlds are going to be a melting pot mix) This means that what can be concentrated for an offensive or defensive operation is going to be considerably less. (I'd guess 10-25 regiments depending, and 25 regiments seems a little "if you lose this battle you're ******")
If I was a writer looking to reduce the CCAF's size (which let's face it, proably needs to happen) I'd have Alaric launch strikes against individual CCAF regiments crushing them as he defeats the CCAF in detail. never occupying territory or staying long in one position. A "chaos march" around Terra fits the wolves needs just fine. As I've said before Alaric basicly needs 20 years of freedom to act.
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From Shattered Fortress, I recall about 10 regiments being called by name as being in the area of operations adjacent to the Republic/Star League (Operations Tiamat, Clarity, and others). Then there is the implication that more are staging on Liao where the Chancellor has posted himself. Most of the warrior house locations are ambiguous but it would not be unsafe to assume the Chancellor will throw all right at Terra.
I'd guess 20 regiments might be available. Eight warrior house, and about a dozen CCAF. Plus there are now mercenaries fighting for the Confederation again so maybe even more.
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Musing inspired from another thread.
Just how much are Capellans likely to have near Terra right about June 3151? I understand we wouldn’t have a hard number, but I’m curious if there’s a good guess
For those interested here are the Capellan regiments we know are operating against the Republic in '49-'51:
Holdfast Guard (SF)
2nd MAC (SF)
1st MAC (SF)
House Ijori (SF)
5th MAC (SF)
House Imarra (SF)
Home Guard forces (SF)
House Dai Da Chi (SF)
1st Liao Guards (SF)
4th MAC (SF)
2nd Liao Guards (SF)
Laurel's Legion (SF)
5th Sian Dragoons (SF)
Red Lancers (reserve, SF)
Death Commandos (reserve, SF)
4th Liao Guards (SF)
2nd Canopian Lancers (SF)
1st Canopian Lancers (SF)
11th Sian Dragoons (EA)
Whirlwind Strikers (PoV)
Waxie's Dargle (PoV)
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What's PoV?
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What's PoV?
Perception of Victory, the new novella came out that focuses on the NWH
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Waxie's Dargle is a very Irish reference for a capellan unit.
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Waxie's Dargle is a very Irish reference for a capellan unit.
it's almost like the inner sphere is a multicultural place
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it's almost like the inner sphere is a multicultural place
While that is true the Combine and the Confederation often go for a more "uniform culture" Like for example Sun Tzu's Shin Xeng policies: renamed the military titles to Chinese ones, promoting Chinese culture, even preferring Mechs that took a more "Chinese look" as well as given them Chinese names. Of course even those nations can't totally suppress other big culture groups within their ranks
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For those interested here are the Capellan regiments we know are operating against the Republic in '49-'51:
Holdfast Guard (SF)
2nd MAC (SF)
1st MAC (SF)
House Ijori (SF)
5th MAC (SF)
House Imarra (SF)
Home Guard forces (SF)
House Dai Da Chi (SF)
1st Liao Guards (SF)
4th MAC (SF)
2nd Liao Guards (SF)
Laurel's Legion (SF)
5th Sian Dragoons (SF)
Red Lancers (reserve, SF)
Death Commandos (reserve, SF)
4th Liao Guards (SF)
2nd Canopian Lancers (SF)
1st Canopian Lancers (SF)
11th Sian Dragoons (EA)
Whirlwind Strikers (PoV)
Waxie's Dargle (PoV)
Oh sweet. That was thorough.
Is the EA unit the one listed that was no longer defending when Anduriens hit?
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Oh sweet. That was thorough.
Is the EA unit the one listed that was no longer defending when Anduriens hit?
Correct, sir
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While that is true the Combine and the Confederation often go for a more "uniform culture" Like for example Sun Tzu's Shin Xeng policies: renamed the military titles to Chinese ones, promoting Chinese culture, even preferring Mechs that took a more "Chinese look" as well as given them Chinese names. Of course even those nations can't totally suppress other big culture groups within their ranks
It's why Xin Sheng was such a big deal. Part of why it worked, by the time STL came up with it, some of the better defined "non-Chinese" parts of the Confederation were under trusted Fed-Com stewardship for the Celestial Throne (Tikonov, Northwind).
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While that is true the Combine and the Confederation often go for a more "uniform culture" Like for example Sun Tzu's Shin Xeng policies: renamed the military titles to Chinese ones, promoting Chinese culture, even preferring Mechs that took a more "Chinese look" as well as given them Chinese names. Of course even those nations can't totally suppress other big culture groups within their ranks
.... No.
What we see in the Capcon is the Court Culture. that doesn't mean the entire CapCon is Chinese
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There's a bit of truth to all sides here, but Brian's more or less spot-on: the Han Chinese trappings are mostly associated with House Liao as opposed to the CapCon at large. Yes, Xin Sheng did bring about a lot of sinification in the CapCon, to the point where there was a noted uptick of racism against non-Asians, but it was less about Chinese culture than it was about shoring up Capellan nationalism.
Besides, isn't Waxie's Dargle a merc unit anyway? It's not unusual in the slightest to see a non-Chinese merc unit in the employ of the CapCon.
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There's a bit of truth to all sides here, but Brian's more or less spot-on: the Han Chinese trappings are mostly associated with House Liao as opposed to the CapCon at large. Yes, Xin Sheng did bring about a lot of sinification in the CapCon, to the point where there was a noted uptick of racism against non-Asians, but it was less about Chinese culture than it was about shoring up Capellan nationalism.
Besides, isn't Waxie's Dargle a merc unit anyway? It's not unusual in the slightest to see a non-Chinese merc unit in the employ of the CapCon.
All true but interestingly the short story gives the CO's rank as Zhong Shao. And says the other unit, the Whirlwind Strikers, were raised in St Ives (planet or commonality, not specified).
But this author also is noted for getting facts and ranks wrong so who knows.
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We in English use "Lieutenant Colonel" because of the military dominance of France in European culture 300 years ago. If the mercenary unit uses Zhong-Shao, it likely just means they are Capellan natives accustomed to the word commonly used in the Capellan Confederation for individuals of that rank. I don't see any reason to read any more or less into it than that.
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On the ranks, should be noted the Lyrans use German ranks even though the nation is actually mostly founded by colonists descended from Italy, Pakistan, Ireland and others but not really from Germany. The German influence in the LC is mostly a result of the Steiner family.
The CapCon is similar in this respect, though a bit differently. I think the original CC housebook notes that the CapCon's leadership caste/nobility is more Asian-descended than the State is on average but not 100% sure on this.
And for most of CapCon's existence, English was used for ranks. The Chinese ranks were introduced with the Xin Sheng reforms in late 3050s, so they've been in use less than 100 years.
Really don't think CapCon is more culturally uniform than any other state. Though having a police state makes enforcing certain appearance easier.
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We in English use "Lieutenant Colonel" because of the military dominance of France in European culture 300 years ago. If the mercenary unit uses Zhong-Shao, it likely just means they are Capellan natives accustomed to the word commonly used in the Capellan Confederation for individuals of that rank. I don't see any reason to read any more or less into it than that.
To use another example from history..
(https://dygtyjqp7pi0m.cloudfront.net/i/11457/11725008_2.jpg?v=8CE9483D163E4B0)
This is the Pour le Merit. A very famous medal. Also known as the Blue Max. It was the highest military honour that could be awarded by the Kingdom of Prussia (which was a one of the States of Germany after reunification) and thus was basicly the highest honor awarded by the german empire during WW1.
The name is French because in 1740 when King Fredrick of Prussia founded the medal. France was one of the major international languages at the time, and Fredrick II favored it's use in his court.
No one, however, is going to accuse the PRUSSIANS of being French.
Court languages don't nesscarily reflect the popular vernacular, let alone the culture
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Does Marcus Barton always drive a DVS? Or he just did for a short occasion? Cause I always thoight him as an AWS guy...
And the DVS he drove, is it the stock config? Or he did something special with it?
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Does Marcus Barton always drive a DVS? Or he just did for a short occasion? Cause I always thoight him as an AWS guy...
And the DVS he drove, is it the stock config? Or he did something special with it?
He drove an Awesome until 3044. Then he acquired a DVS-2 Devastator from CMM General Lester Otto on Marlette.
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Does Marcus Barton always drive a DVS? Or he just did for a short occasion? Cause I always thoight him as an AWS guy...
And the DVS he drove, is it the stock config? Or he did something special with it?
He drove his mother's Warhammer into the 4th SW before that.
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So what do we think of the new CCAF war machines in RS3150?
I look forward to using the new Yu Huang, Huron Warrior and Helios the most but all of them are decent to good upgrades imo.
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Additional Boosted C³ platforms were definitely needed & are a welcome addition.
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Need a boosted C3 master with two headcappers for your Vandals? Check.
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Additional Boosted C³ platforms were definitely needed & are a welcome addition.
100%! I'm still hoping for a Men Shen H config with a supercharger and boosted C3.
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Is it bad to want to Armor my C3 network components against possible crit damage?
TT
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I know there's some debate about whether or not the Highlander is a Capellan mech,
So, what do you think?
Late to this party, but the (edit: XOTL) RAT Math says 2038 Capellans had ~8 highlanders spread among their armed forces(not including those used by the to that point CAPCON employed North Wind Highlanders) compared to the Lyran's ~31.
No one else had any per the tables, so there is that.
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RATs aren't something I'd wanna use to extrapolate how many mechs a faction has. Some of the RATs are a little odd.
Using a non capellan example, let us consider the fedsuns assault mech RATs in FM 3145 and DD.
FM 3145 places the TLR-1O Templar at place 13 on the AFFS RAT and the TLR-2O Templar III at place 17 on the same one.
The Dominions Divided RAT includes the TLR-1O but does not include the TLR-2O.
Now here's the thing, the Templar 1, was produced on Talon/Wenerke from 3062 to 3069 when the factory was destroyed by Blakeist nuclear weapons. Giving a production time of only 7 years.
Meanwhile the MUL states the Templar III was in production from 3100 onwards on New Valencia. Approximatly 50 years in production, even if we assume Talon had 4 times the output of the GM Valencia factory, the Templar III should by rights VASTLY out number the Templar I's in service.
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I meant the unofficial XOTL RAT not considering I might have been implying differently, sorry.
I used the standard regiment size, 3 batallions of 3 companies, the percentage of assaults per regiment, based on faction, and the number of highlanders per 1000 assault mechs in Capellan/Lyran service to get these numbers. And yes that isn't official, but it at least gives a base idea of relative rarity in 3028.
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I've only recently become a fan of the Capellan Confederation and I want to delve into some of the deep lore. Is there a good list of reading materials that I need to focus on? I already have PDF copies of "House Liao The Capellan Confederation", "Battletech Handbook House Liao, a faction sourcebook" and "Battletech Field Manual Capellan Confederation".
Another lore/RP related question. How would being a mercenary for the CC work? Could someone born in the CC become a merc or would they end up serving in the CCAF or planetary militia instead?
If you want lore try the Capellan Solution Duology (Threads of Ambition and Killing Fields) it explores one of the Warrior Houses during the beginning or the Capellan-St. Ives war.
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Word is, the newest World Wide Event announced yesterday will put the Confederation, repped by House Hiritsu, against the Star League of Alaric Wolf.
Who's pumped!?
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I know what side I’ll be on!
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Does this imply any kind of influence on the outcome? It's hard to imagine the new Star League gets blown out, just for narrative purposes.
All the same, hopeless battles are our thing so let's go
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I love the Capellans and I love the Clans, so this is a win-win for me regardless. azn
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Does this imply any kind of influence on the outcome? It's hard to imagine the new Star League gets blown out, just for narrative purposes.
All the same, hopeless battles are our thing so let's go
Not necessarily, House Liao could bloody the Wolf's nose, sharpening their units. Wolves get to season their first ilClan Sibkos. We get to play, writers get to weave the results into tall tale. IWM and CGL get paid... And the new KS Commanders get placed in glorious ilClan history...
TT
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Does this imply any kind of influence on the outcome? It's hard to imagine the new Star League gets blown out, just for narrative purposes.
All the same, hopeless battles are our thing so let's go
Document calls out that this one won’t influence upcoming lore. It’s a “get pumped” event.
This WWE occurs in December of 3151. We know Alaric doesn’t contact the Empire through at least June 3152. It’s quite possible this one is a capellan win. That would explain the lack of communication.
Frankly, for narrative purposes, the Wolves need to get blown out a few times. Not defeated totally and driven off Terra, but there’s a certain point where you drive fans away when one faction always wins and wolves have won nonstop for a long time now.
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I disagree, good writing would in fact have a routed Clan Wolf fleeing from the Terran Corridor under the good graces of their neighbors glad to be rid of them. Their hubris would avalanche upon them and snowball until a remnant had to flee. Alaric might not flee, but he has had his screentime. The Clan fanbase is not so weak that Clan Wolf's grasp on Terra needed to be baby fed to them, and kept under similar circumstances.
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Could we maybe not turn the Capellan thread into Iteration #9875 of "Alaric and the Wolves have led a charmed life and need to lose hard"? Seriously, guys, every thread that even tangentially strays into this area devolves into this. I get that it's at least somewhat on-topic here, but let's at least add something new to the conversation.
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Could we maybe not turn the Capellan thread into Iteration #9875 of "Alaric and the Wolves have led a charmed life and need to lose hard"? Seriously, guys, every thread that even tangentially strays into this area devolves into this. I get that it's at least somewhat on-topic here, but let's at least add something new to the conversation.
Besides expecting some sort of decisive Capellan victory is silly. the capcon leads an even MORE charmed life and needs to "lose hard"
The Wolf Touman at least has been pretty hurt, being reduced to about 30 clusters.
By comparison the CAAF is 50+ regiments strong, when EVERYONE else is roughly "30 something" I'd say the CCAF needs a good lose more then the wolves do.
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Does this imply any kind of influence on the outcome? It's hard to imagine the new Star League gets blown out, just for narrative purposes.
All the same, hopeless battles are our thing so let's go
The little blurb kinda implies that it will. But lose the battle win the war is also a thing.
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Besides expecting some sort of decisive Capellan victory is silly. the capcon leads an even MORE charmed life and needs to "lose hard"
The Wolf Touman at least has been pretty hurt, being reduced to about 30 clusters.
By comparison the CAAF is 50+ regiments strong, when EVERYONE else is roughly "30 something" I'd say the CCAF needs a good lose more then the wolves do.
I am not cheering for a decisive Capellan victory, simply a consequential one. I want the Capellans at a level where the universe can reach a golden mean. This just happens to be a convenient tool to set this up while relocating Clan Wolf and its cousins.
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I am not cheering for a decisive Capellan victory, simply a consequential one. I want the Capellans at a level where the universe can reach a golden mean. This just happens to be a convenient tool to set this up while relocating Clan Wolf and its cousins.
except the wolves are already depleted and bottled up on Terra. a "consequential" victory effectively kills the clan as relevant. The Capellans are the ones who need to be hurt to "level the universe"
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As someone that's spent most of their Battletech experience in the 3rd/4th Succession Wars and Clan Invasion Eras, reading up on the most recent lore is proving to be quite interesting, especially as a Capellan Confederation fan.
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except the wolves are already depleted and bottled up on Terra. a "consequential" victory effectively kills the clan as relevant. The Capellans are the ones who need to be hurt to "level the universe"
There’s always the “everyone loses” option. Capellans can ‘win’ in a way that doesn’t destroy the wolves on Terra (containing the Wolves is itself a decisive victory) in time for MAC leaving to gut a theater. MAC leaving seems highly likely and highly likely to be an ugly mess.
Toss in Alaric having to go to the foxes and ravens for aid and you can have the new clan owners of Terra lose but survive, Capellans get knocked down hard, and none of it requires plot armor or character assassination.
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As someone that's spent most of their Battletech experience in the 3rd/4th Succession Wars and Clan Invasion Eras, reading up on the most recent lore is proving to be quite interesting, especially as a Capellan Confederation fan.
Yeah. Capellans had a long streak of not doing anything really stupid and it’s put them in a good place throughout Dark Ages.
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It would be impossible to contain a Clan Wolf who controlled Terra. If not annihilated, they would need to be relocated. Remember Alaric can command other Clans and they seem to respond to this affirmatively [Horses excepted].
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It would be impossible to contain a Clan Wolf who controlled Terra. If not annihilated, they would need to be relocated. Remember Alaric can command other Clans and they seem to respond to this affirmatively [Horses excepted].
1 - In this case, cutting them off from the Empire is containment. Alaric can’t go south, east, or north for supplies. If CC cuts off the west, he’s contained. He can go northwest and have to conquer the old Falcon OZ for more resources, but that requires troops he may not be able to spare.
2 - Alaric has no minion clans that matter. The Jade Falcon survivors are barely a cluster of ground troops and nuJags something similar. Foxes have aided him because they are gaining tremendously so far in money and salvage. Ravens, in their few POV moments so far, view the whole thing as transactional. They expect to gain from aiding Alaric. Both clans will stop helping if they get nothing. He cannot just command other clans that matter and receive obedience without offering something in return. The only thing he has is Terra and per EoT:Honor, he isn’t offering even a sliver of it.
This is why I want to see CC bloody the wolves. I think the most engaging storyline forward is seeing the wolves demand obedience and sacrifice from others only to have Foxes and Ravens eventually tell him no. Then let CC humble the wolves and force them to request aid. Show Alaric forced to grow as a character and make concessions to other clans so it becomes an actual league and not just the Alaric show.
Have that happen, then a mixture of a proper league reinforcing the wolves and MAC snapping can push CC back. CCAF has the people, equipment, and force distribution that they should do relatively well at first.
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The Empire is moribund. At one time it controlled an excessive percentage of League production, which means that it should have been surprisingly well equipped with Inner Sphere machines. The way the Wolves managed it was incompetent. The Wolves do in fact have minions, one of which appears to be their navy, and the Foxes have hinted at being half-hearted minions. The Bears are having issues related to it, which players may need a book to understand. The production capabilities of Terra in Wolf hands would be terrifying and require constant raids to offset. Frankly if I were running the League and saw a moribund Clan Wolf still clinging to Terra, I would ask the Clan Protectorate to absorb them to get rid of the threat.
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All the production in the universe doesn’t matter if wolves can’t replace people. Alaric’s issue is personnel. Every lost Wolf is irreplaceable. There are no repacements for his pet falcons or the Oathbreaker nuJags. CC has relatively safe borders and can force a war of attrition that they can win. Alaric cannot compete if Daoshen is willing to stack bodies like Focht.
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Furthermore all the production capabilities of Terra are useless if the hunger for raw materials isn't met. Yes there is the Belt but can they produce enough raw material to keep up the prodcution quotas? Plus not all Mechs run on the same components. If the 3152 diorama is more or less correct then Alaric has more or less lost his last safe trade corridor. And with the Mariks and Dragoons ripping his empire to shreds any left behind wolves are hard pressed to send even a few warriors. The opne key advantage so far seems to be the HPG's and Warships at his command. But if Daoshen is willing to throw bodies against that then there isn't much ge could do. The Capellans have an neitre realm that can train more men and produce more replacement material. What do the Wolves have? Terra and perhaps some worlds still under their control. Though the Capellans seem to have been set up for a stab in the back in form of the Anduriens and Canopians.
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Winding back to the Capellans.
How would the people in here approach the challenge of Alaric? Ignoring Capellan moral and cultural norms, how would you solve the question?
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Speaking from a Capellan perspective, Alaric is the anti-Chancellor. He must be eliminated for the greater humanity to be established over the Inner Sphere. The state tolerates the existence of false states because it must, but the Chancellor will not allow a false one to mislead the people if he is able to prevent it. Furthermore, the false state inhabits the cradle of humanity and poses a threat to some recently recovered parts of the greater humanity.
(I can roleplay any state, some are easier than others. When done right, the Lyrans prove the most difficult.)
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I’d get Alaric to the negotiating table and let him have Terra, because there are far more important issues on the table (most pressing being Andurien/Canopus) and taking Terra is not only just an indulgence for Daoshen’s ego, but an albatross around the neck.
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If I’m following the goal of Terra and o give a crap about individuals as much as Daosehn does:
1) Cutoff wolf from the empire. Push troops into the empire’s neck.
2) Hire mercenary commands willing to hit the wolves and have them play ball in the old Falcon OZ, wolf Empire, and any worlds near Terra they can fight on. Create as many ways to pick away at and drain wolf forces as possible. Use this and 1 to isolate Alaric and enrage him.
3) Bring forward ASF and PWS heavy commands to prepare a counterattack against warships. Hold them as a fleet in being to threaten clan warships.
4) Negotiate with Canopus to deal with Anduriens. I know I’m going to get fleeced, but I can’t spare the troops.
5) Fortify the worlds in the Empire’s neck so any one I can’t keep is paid for badly in wolf blood. My highest priority is keeping Alaric isolated.
6) Contact the foxes and see what deal I can cut with them. See if I can undercut Alaric’s only other supply line.
7) Declare a Republic in Exile on Northwind. There isn’t one, but lie my ass off convincingly to see if I can bait out a grudge match between wolves and NWH.
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Negotiate with Canopus to deal with Anduriens. I know I’m going to get fleeced, but I can’t spare the troops.
Using the Canopians to do their dirty work is a huge part of the problems they’re having right now. This seems like a really bad idea.
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If you are going for the Chancellor for a day thing, just let the Anduriens burn out on militia. The CCAF's militia forces in that region are likely much larger than the Duchy's total military, and surprisingly well equipped. They also have too much space to defend with what they got.
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Correct me if I am wrong, but it seemed like MoC was more willing to side with Andurian then the Capellans
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The Magistracy is in a surprisingly complex position. I like that type of writing. May the resolution be most interesting.
(PS The Marians are also intertwined, should the writing go that way)
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(PS The Marians are also intertwined, should the writing go that way)
The Marian Confederation or The Capellan Hegemony?
azn
TT
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I’d get Alaric to the negotiating table and let him have Terra, because there are far more important issues on the table (most pressing being Andurien/Canopus) and taking Terra is not only just an indulgence for Daoshen’s ego, but an albatross around the neck.
White Elephant or Albatross, Terra is more trouble than it’s worth. I would only argue about Capellans taking it so it becomes a century long “hot potato”.
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White Elephant or Albatross, Terra is more trouble than it’s worth. I would only argue about Capellans taking it so it becomes a century long “hot potato”.
The Wolves are my Battletech England.
So it’s always anyone but :cool: :evil:
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Ideally, I'd like to see Daoshen take a fall only for Danai to take his place and decide Terra is more trouble than it's worth, because as long as Daoshen's alive, he's never gonna let it go. Honestly, it's just pure vanity/ego on Daoshen's part at this point... he's succeeded in restoring the CapCon's lost territory, and has a laundry list of problems that need immediate attention: the situation with Andurien poaching their worlds, the fraying of their alliance with Canopus (which seems like another mild retcon, because Capellan/Canopian relations were at an all-time high in 3145), the devolving situation with the Big MAC (which may or may not be defecting to the Combine, if the art in DD means anything), problems on Chesterton and a rebounding FedSuns that may or may not have something to say about those problems.
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Ideally, I'd like to see Daoshen take a fall only for Danai to take his place and decide Terra is more trouble than it's worth, because as long as Daoshen's alive, he's never gonna let it go. Honestly, it's just pure vanity/ego on Daoshen's part at this point... he's succeeded in restoring the CapCon's lost territory, and has a laundry list of problems that need immediate attention: the situation with Andurien poaching their worlds, the fraying of their alliance with Canopus (which seems like another mild retcon, because Capellan/Canopian relations were at an all-time high in 3145), the devolving situation with the Big MAC (which may or may not be defecting to the Combine, if the art in DD means anything), problems on Chesterton and a rebounding FedSuns that may or may not have something to say about those problems.
My honest guess is Daoshen is going to press the wolves until something critical gives. Then Danai will regretfully inform the Capellan public that Daoshen, uh, has achieved apotheosis and she must rule day to day in his absence.
It gives us probably the best options for CC. We drop the last insane ruler off from the dark ages and put someone in charge of CC who can be a recognizable character for a long time.
Meta-wise, CGL isn’t gonna push wolves off Terra the moment they become ilClan. I don’t think Capellans have what it takes in universe to do so anyway.
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Ideally, I'd like to see Daoshen take a fall only for Danai to take his place and decide Terra is more trouble than it's worth, because as long as Daoshen's alive, he's never gonna let it go. Honestly, it's just pure vanity/ego on Daoshen's part at this point... he's succeeded in restoring the CapCon's lost territory, and has a laundry list of problems that need immediate attention: the situation with Andurien poaching their worlds, the fraying of their alliance with Canopus (which seems like another mild retcon, because Capellan/Canopian relations were at an all-time high in 3145), the devolving situation with the Big MAC (which may or may not be defecting to the Combine, if the art in DD means anything), problems on Chesterton and a rebounding FedSuns that may or may not have something to say about those problems.
I'd definitely enjoy this angle. Daoshen falls (leading the troops preferably, beheaded in a public square if we must). Then we get Danai leading the Confederation. Long run, it gives the CC the best shot at stable leadership. She's capable, young, intelligent, and has been serving for more than a decade. What more could you want?
I think the setting would benefit from a bunch of capable, interesting heads of houses, rather than any more cut from the Daoshen/Caleb/Malvina cloth. Psychopaths don't interest me as much as people pursuing questionable ends for what they feel is the greater good. (Danai, Julian, Yori, etc)
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Daoshen is an accurate representation of Capellan cosmology, and therefore an interesting character. He is much more intelligent and far sighted than you are crediting. I will give you that he has done creepy and unacceptable things, but he has done so because that is where Capellan ideology leads, similar to Egyptian Pharaonic ideology in later periods. Remember he is an accurate representation of Capellan source material.
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Daoshen is an accurate representation of Capellan cosmology, and therefore an interesting character. He is much more intelligent and far sighted than you are crediting. I will give you that he has done creepy and unacceptable things, but he has done so because that is where Capellan ideology leads, similar to Egyptian Pharaonic ideology in later periods. Remember he is an accurate representation of Capellan source material.
Incest being an expression of Capellan ideology is certainly... an opinion.
I get the gist of what you're saying, though. And personally, I find Daoshen just as interesting as I find Danai. But I also agree that the setting, and most especially the Capellans, would benefit from having Daoshen removed from the equation. I agree that he's both intelligent and farsighted (just ask Amanda Hasek about that), but I also think his obsession with taking Terra is clouding his judgment. We're already seeing the cracks: letting the Unity Pact fall by the wayside, the situation with both Andurien and Canopus, the execution of Xavier McCarron, etc.
I just hope that some writer will remember that Danai is not only half-Canopian but was raised Canopian, and leverage that into the faltering alliance. Her latest novel leaned so hard into her learning what it is to be Capellan and didn't really touch on her Canopian side, and we didn't get to see her return to Canopus for the funeral of the woman that raised her, so my hopes aren't too high.
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The issue with the Capellan cosmology is that the Chancellor is the state, allies are simply chaos being manipulated for its benefit. Daoshen is in fact acting within that understanding. Danai may very well turn that way. To be a Chancellor is not simply to hold an office, it is to be the state incarnate, free from blemish.
As for the incest, it has a background particularly highlighted by the Ptolemic dynasty who ruled over Egypt. The most famous instance involved Cleopatra. There were examples preceding that dynasty, but they are practically the name brand. Egypt's concept of divinization was considerably different with the Confucian concept, which makes this movement aberrant, but not unheard of in East Asia. The Confederation itself is not steadfast to Confucianism, even if key concepts are derived from it, so borrowing from the Egyptian cosmology might not be off. For a typical Capellan citizen it would be illegal.
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The issue with the Capellan cosmology is that the Chancellor is the state, allies are simply chaos being manipulated for its benefit. Daoshen is in fact acting within that understanding. Danai may very well turn that way. To be a Chancellor is not simply to hold an office, it is to be the state incarnate, free from blemish.
Yes, we're aware of all this. It doesn't change the fact that this mindset of his is in fact blinding him to the very real issues that are mounting for his nation. He can be intelligent and farsighted and still fall prey to his own delusions of grandeur.
Danai turning out like Daoshen completely misses the point of who Danai is as a character. After her assault by Caleb and then learning that Daoshen and Ilsa were her parents, she was able to start healing and moving forward by vowing not to be like either of them. It would be straight-up character assassination to have her follow in Daoshen's divine footsteps.
As for the incest, it has a background particularly highlighted by the Ptolemic dynasty who ruled over Egypt. The most famous instance involved Cleopatra. There were examples preceding that dynasty, but they are practically the name brand. Egypt's concept of divinization was considerably different with the Confucian concept, which makes this movement aberrant, but not unheard of in East Asia. The Confederation itself is not steadfast to Confucianism, even if key concepts are derived from it, so borrowing from the Egyptian cosmology might not be off. For a typical Capellan citizen it would be illegal.
I mean, it's an interesting theory, but it's just headcanon. There's nothing to suggest any of this idea is actually the case. This isn't a Capellan thing, it's a Daoshen thing. He's the way he is because of Kali's influence over him, since she's the one that had him believing his own hype. He grew up making everyone around him acknowledge him as a living god and being a cruel bastard in general. In that context, his relationship with Ilsa makes perfect sense: like most abusers, it's about power and control for Daoshen.
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So let's say Daoshen falls what would the Confederation or rather the CCAF do next? The last time it happened (during the Capellan Crusades) the CCAF went into a berserker mode raging against the RAF and only stopped when their machines were literally breaking apart. Would this be different should Danai take charge? I would assume she would at least try to channel that anger to achieve some form of victory to gain an advantgageous position in negotioations. That is IF the wolves even accept negotiations and not demand "Bow before the Ilclan!" The way we are heading might lead to a total devastation of the center of the IS and the now reeling states like the Commonwealth and the Federated suns coming out as the real winners simply by surviving and not fighting in the thickest fights (though those states still have civil wars hanging over their heads)
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Danai turning out like Daoshen completely misses the point of who Danai is as a character. After her assault by Caleb and then learning that Daoshen and Ilsa were her parents, she was able to start healing and moving forward by vowing not to be like either of them. It would be straight-up character assassination to have her follow in Daoshen's divine footsteps.
Isn't "I have to become what I swore I would never be" a classic character path?
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Isn't "I have to become what I swore I would never be" a classic character path?
I would certainly hope CGL has more sense than to turn a rape survivor into the kind of person that committed the assault to begin with. BIG yikes on that terrible idea.
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I would certainly hope CGL has more sense than to turn a rape survivor into the kind of person that committed the assault to begin with. BIG yikes on that terrible idea.
Yeah I certainly hope they don't do that. Yet there are other ways that Danai can be like Daoshen without raping
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Yeah I certainly hope they don't do that. Yet there are other ways that Danai can be like Daoshen without raping
It would still be grossly out of character. Danai wasn’t raised like Daoshen, believing in her own divinity, which is the primary reason (other than his mental illness) he is the way that he is. Her entire character arc has been about her learning to be her own leader, without becoming like either of her parents, and having her turn out like Daoshen anyway would make all of that an enormous waste of time for anyone invested in her character.
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It would still be grossly out of character. Danai wasn’t raised like Daoshen, believing in her own divinity, which is the primary reason (other than his mental illness) he is the way that he is. Her entire character arc has been about her learning to be her own leader, without becoming like either of her parents, and having her turn out like Daoshen anyway would make all of that an enormous waste of time for anyone invested in her character.
Danai is going to have to walk her own path: without any of the divine celestial being nonsense. It is why she'd be a good chancellor. Her Canopian pragmatism makes her better suited to rule. She isn't going to become anything like Daoshen, she's going to have to be something more than he could be. I think she'll be a good character moving forward.
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I get that you want a Capellan Chancellor without the Capellanisms in it, but Danai is going to have to choose between being a Chancellor or a lowly Magistrex. She would essentially have to abandon documents like the Korvin Doctrine to make what you want to work, which would implode the Confederation. You can move from a Hohiro to a Takashi, but not from a Hohiro to a Hanse and have the same state.
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Yeah I certainly hope they don't do that. Yet there are other ways that Danai can be like Daoshen without raping
That is the thesis. Danai wants to be the grown up, the Successor Lord, and through her experiences in the Confederation has learned that this is a very different reality than the Magistracy could prepare her for. Ilsa thought she was a master manipulator but was in actuality in the minor leagues. Danai is learning what it means to be a Chancellor and it is changing her in a ways she thought impossible years ago. Furthermore, she cannot allow her thoughts on the matter in question to influence her lest a foreign power have some sort of hold on her the way Ilsa thought she had on Daoshen. She is becoming a Chancellor.
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Danai is going to have to walk her own path: without any of the divine celestial being nonsense. It is why she'd be a good chancellor. Her Canopian pragmatism makes her better suited to rule. She isn't going to become anything like Daoshen, she's going to have to be something more than he could be. I think she'll be a good character moving forward.
I agree with this 100%.
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Danai should just think about rule number 1 in the Confederation: the chancellor IS the Confederation. What he or she says is the rule. So in that regard she might have it easier to rule according to her believes. And to be honest are there any other candidates for the throne? Daoshen's sister is "confined" to the Magistarcy. And are there any other mainline Liao's left to contest a possible Danai rule?
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Minemech has a good point that Danai can't just abandon what makes the Confederation the Confederation, and IMHO that's where I see her arc getting most intreasting as Chancellor. There's a common myth that absolute monarchs have a "do whatever the hell you want" card. but that's not entirly true they're bound by conventions and customs, that breaking can cause... problems.
So Danai will likely have to play the game, and she's going to HATE it.
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I would love to see a civil war between Danai and the Thuggees. Something that shatters House Liao as Danai has to rip apart the Confederation to eliminate the hydra.
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I would love to see a civil war between Danai and the Thuggees. Something that shatters House Liao as Danai has to rip apart the Confederation to eliminate the hydra.
I think it’s far more likely that the FedSuns will rip itself apart at this point than this fever dream ever coming to pass.
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There's not a lot of evidance the Thugees hold a ton of political power any more, (and honestly I kinda suspect that they're not going to want to highlight the thugees as "real world religion ick") if there is any conflict within the CapCon it'll be between Dani and the cult of Liao.
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What "cult of Liao"? Unless you meant that hyperbolically, because there's no actual religion attached to the Liaos (leaving aside the Thuggees, of course) or even to Daoshen himself.
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What "cult of Liao"? Unless you meant that hyperbolically, because there's no actual religion attached to the Liaos (leaving aside the Thuggees, of course) or even to Daoshen himself.
There are people in the CapCon who see TL and Daoshen as divine. I could see them pushing back against Danai if she doesn't play along with their expectations
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There are people in the CapCon who see TL and Daoshen as divine. I could see them pushing back against Danai if she doesn't play along with their expectations
I agree, and they may include the Prefectural Council.
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We've never seen any evidence of these toadies and yes-men being of any consequence whatsoever. I think you're both seriously overestimating the presence of people who actually see Daoshen the way he sees himself. I'd be far more worried about the Thuggees, honestly, since we have seen them do exactly this sort of thing before and know that they're still a current threat.
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Are the thugees even a real threat at this point? Their figurehead turned herself and a couple of followers into living candles and then...nothing happened. Not to mention their terror campaign on New Syrtis resulted in...nothing (except a lot of dead civilians). Of course there could be a "new figurtehead out of nowhere" but so far that front is quiet. Eerily quite. The major "breaking point" will be once Daoshen gets himself killed against the Clans (you know it's coming). Then comes the questiopn what happens next. Maybe someone will bring out Sun Tzu's body and have him do some tricks or something similar.
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What "cult of Liao"?
The whole Celestial Throne/Celestial Wisdom thing always struck me as deifying the Chancellor and their family in ways that the other Houses never pursued. (Even the Coordinator explicitly does not make claims of divinity, IIRC.) That didn’t mean that every patriotic Capellan was a cultist, but I’d also venture that some small portion of the population was susceptible to cult-like behavior with respect to the Liaos. And then maybe some facets of that phenomenon show up in the Thugees, certain Warrior Houses, and maybe some Death Commandos and Maskirovka elements.
FWIW…
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The whole Celestial Throne thing always struck me as deifying the Chancellor and their family in ways that the other Houses never pursued. (Even the Coordinator explicitly does not make claims of divinity, IIRC.) That didn’t mean that every patriotic Capellan was a cultist, but I’d also venture that some small portion of the population was susceptible to cult-like behavior with respect to the Liaos. And then maybe some facets of that phenomenon show up in the Thugees, certain Warrior Houses, and maybe some Death Commandos and Maskirovka elements.
FWIW…
It's worth quite a bit, actually. Thank you, as always, for actual canon info and insight.
Are the thugees even a real threat at this point? Their figurehead turned herself and a couple of followers into living candles and then...nothing happened. Not to mention their terror campaign on New Syrtis resulted in...nothing (except a lot of dead civilians). Of course there could be a "new figurtehead out of nowhere" but so far that front is quiet. Eerily quite. The major "breaking point" will be once Daoshen gets himself killed against the Clans (you know it's coming). Then comes the questiopn what happens next. Maybe someone will bring out Sun Tzu's body and have him do some tricks or something similar.
Also a very good point, especially without a known leader to rally behind now that Ki-linn is dead. That said, she's also a martyr, and the Thuggees have proven time and again that they're an ever-present threat. That's also why I won't agree that their actions on New Syrtis resulted in nothing; from their perspective, the death is the point as much as (if not moreso) any other goal they might've had, sacrifices to the Death Goddess.
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Also, in the DA novel By Temptations and By War, Sun-Tzu’s aged and sick but cryogenically frozen body is guarded by a literal Cult of Liao on the planet Liao. The novel’s main character leads the Cult and is also the XO of House Ijori. That’s probably what the other poster upthread was referring to.
Sun-Tzu is also said to have ascended to godhood after the “death” that put him in the cryo chamber guarded by the cult.
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Also, in the DA novel By Temptations and By War, Sun-Tzu’s aged and sick but cryogenically frozen body is guarded by a literal Cult of Liao on the planet Liao. The novel’s main character leads the Cult and is also the XO of House Ijori. That’s probably what the other poster upthread was referring to.
That would make sense. I haven't read that book in well over a decade and forgot like 90% of the plot. Still, we haven't seen mention of this cult since, so I wouldn't necessarily say they're a serious consideration within the CapCon's political structure right now. Plus with CGL doing so much shifting away from the WizKids-era Dark Age, part of me doubts anyone even remembers they exist.
Sun-Tzu is also said to have ascended to godhood after the “death” that put him in the cryo chamber guarded by the cult.
Now this part I remember.
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Switching gears a bit how do we feel about a Capellan ‘heavy’ scout lance of
2 Agrotera, 1 ShadowHawk 8L, and 1 Yinghuochong.
I’m not happy with its limited EWAR set up, aside from the Shadow Hawk. Lots of TAG tho. There aren’t a lot of overtly fast or improved jumpers with EWAR stuff to pair nicely.
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Also a very good point, especially without a known leader to rally behind now that Ki-linn is dead. That said, she's also a martyr, and the Thuggees have proven time and again that they're an ever-present threat. That's also why I won't agree that their actions on New Syrtis resulted in nothing; from their perspective, the death is the point as much as (if not moreso) any other goal they might've had, sacrifices to the Death Goddess.
Fair point. A lot of Thugee actions under Kali Liao looked liked utter lunacy but in reality led to benefits for the Confederation. The main issue is though thatwe don't know much about the current day thugees. While the actions on New Syrtis seem to indicate that they have resurged there isn't an indication that they are "everywhere". Maybe we get more once the real action against the Clans pick up.
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Everything whithin the state, nothing without the state.
The chancellor is the personnification of the confederation. For various reasons the Liaos are the chancellors (though I point out that from memory the confederation has been happier with "non-ruling line leaders" then other successor states). It is inevitable that having a "cult", which could easily be in a light sense, like parading once per month with an effigy of the chosen one, around a human being is easier to understand then a cult towards vague notions of an all-encompassing system which ends up having an aristocracy anyway. Two kinds of 'em to boot.
But that's basically it, there's a difference between deifying a distant leader in a state cult, and TRUELY considering him as god incarnate. There's a difference between deifying a man and having a cult to him, and being bound to the state. The man will be replace, people come and go, but there is no existence if there is no state.
Another illustration regarding de deification of the last chancellors (which had never been a thing before): Think of old polytheistic religions in the more philosophically bound societys of antiquity. The religion was, not completely but still mostly, a "state cult", not a "religion" as we tend to comprehend the word. Much the same, in the middle empire, while the emperor weilded the mandate of heaven, he could be replaced in a moment's notice and his subjects would merely look forward to the new "coronation festival".
The chancellor is the personnification...but only that. He is still subordinate to the state in theorie. Hence why the chancellors prior to Romano were all very keen in re-interpreting the Korvin doctrine, the Sarna mandate and the basic tenets of warrioresque filial piety, I mean the Lorix Order. The chancellor is but a man and while the theorie behind the confederation has been tempered with in time, history is not necessarly forgotten.
I mean, which warrior house was the most eager in upholding the ideas of the Lorix Order? The same that was considered less reliable then the others.
The Sarna mandate enabled a resurgence of the nobility. Then during the reign of Tormax, through re-interpretation, it allowed to curb their growing influence.
A state cannot stagnate for too long. Its policies evolve.
Now, let us consider something of the inner workings of the confederation. Maximilian managed to find enough dissent among the ruling caste to make a coup against his father, the ruling celestial wisdom, and install his people in most key positions of power in the confederation without anyone saying anything and with, for all we know, minimal blood shed with only higher ups being liquidated for replacement.
Following the coup, power struggles were constant. It was not necessarly attempts to grab power on an purely individual basis, not necessarly attempts at gaining more prestige for one's aristocratic line... But power struggles were very real. Warrior house against CCAF, Death commandos against Maskirovka, and everything in between...
Now the fallout of the 4th SW enabled Romano to clean house as well as definitely crushing the power of (at least) the Sheng nobles, notably with a great deal of nationalization of the economy (I seem to recall there were contradictory entries on this subject in the handbook though)...But Sun Tzu undertook steps for a certain liberilisation of society and economy.
Then, I remember clearly all those passages in "the capellan solution" where Sun Tzu is always carefull to keep his inner circle divided...assuredly for he knows that his position as chancellor is that of a god, but mewrely an embodiment of the state, and that he is not the sole individual capable of playing this role, as capellan history shows.
And then you have the prefectorate and the linked house of scions, the power of which has sometimes been quite strong....to the point of naming the most incapable chancellor in the history of the CC if I recall.
Inner power struggles are not really the main draw point of the BTU and hence only show up as needed...but inner power struggles are rarely things that are shown in broad daylight until they are ready for it, or coerced into action before they reach their maturity. It's far from impossible to do something with all this. A Civil war, not with thugees, but between traditional elements of capellan governement, could be quite the epic tale. Not likely to happen, sure, but a potential epic tale nonetheless. The death of Daoshen could put several things in motion, espescially if it coincides with a defeat. It would be ridiculous that so many powerfull entities would be happy with the curtailing of their prerogatives since Romano Liao to keep foolishly smiling ever after, even through defeat. When your nation is winning...can't argue with success, but defeat opens another realm of possibilities.
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Switching gears a bit how do we feel about a Capellan ‘heavy’ scout lance of
2 Agrotera, 1 ShadowHawk 8L, and 1 Yinghuochong.
I’m not happy with its limited EWAR set up, aside from the Shadow Hawk. Lots of TAG tho. There aren’t a lot of overtly fast or improved jumpers with EWAR stuff to pair nicely.
I like it but I'm guessing that's almost 6500BV without Arrow IV assets assigned so I'm wondering if one mech should be a light to free up BV.
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Switching gears a bit how do we feel about a Capellan ‘heavy’ scout lance of
2 Agrotera, 1 ShadowHawk 8L, and 1 Yinghuochong.
I’m not happy with its limited EWAR set up, aside from the Shadow Hawk. Lots of TAG tho. There aren’t a lot of overtly fast or improved jumpers with EWAR stuff to pair nicely.
Doesn't help with EWAR, but that Shad slows down your lance as well. The new Phoenix Hawk-9, new Spider 9M, or even new Javelin (more tag I know) would keep your lance together better. Can't think of anything that fast with ECM off the top of my head.
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Could always Eyleuka or Yao Lien for comparable speeds (both can go 5/8/7, iirc?) and a Guardian ECM.
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Could always Eyleuka or Yao Lien for comparable speeds (both can go 5/8/7, iirc?) and a Guardian ECM.
That, or if you wanted to drop BV you could go with the new Ostscout that packs a GECM and a Clan Large Laser. You'd lose a lot of beef though!
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This is mainly for a parade/in universe grouping. I don’t mind BV/PV considerations. I’ll change things around for gameplay purposes as needed.
The shadow hawk is 5/8/7, the other mechs are 6/9/8. Not massively slower. I have a fast ground bound scout lance, these guys are envisioned to be the jumping scouts/scout hunters.
The Eyleuka has stealth armor, so it’s Gecm doesn’t really help in an EWAR capacity. And the Yao Ling has the c3 wasted on this lance. Swapping the c3 to a clan probe would really up the value (in terms of scout ability on the lance). It becomes a very nasty mugger lance.
I’m thinking about eating it and keeping the second Argotera or maybe salvaging a Davion Hellspawn 10SR. It’s got the whole EWAR set up, although it removes some of the scout killer vibe with its weapons load
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Even as a Davion fan, the Hellspawn gets an 'ew' for its looks, payload, and speed. You can turn Stealth armor off and use the ECM on the Eyleuka--so it still may be the best option.
What you need is a jumping Gunsmith with ECM. If only that were a thing....
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This is mainly for a parade/in universe grouping. I don’t mind BV/PV considerations. I’ll change things around for gameplay purposes as needed.
The shadow hawk is 5/8/7, the other mechs are 6/9/8. Not massively slower. I have a fast ground bound scout lance, these guys are envisioned to be the jumping scouts/scout hunters.
The Eyleuka has stealth armor, so it’s Gecm doesn’t really help in an EWAR capacity. And the Yao Ling has the c3 wasted on this lance. Swapping the c3 to a clan probe would really up the value (in terms of scout ability on the lance). It becomes a very nasty mugger lance.
I’m thinking about eating it and keeping the second Argotera or maybe salvaging a Davion Hellspawn 10SR. It’s got the whole EWAR set up, although it removes some of the scout killer vibe with its weapons load
What about a Dola 1A1? 8/12/8 movement and Angel ECM. Plus the mini is first rate.
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Augmented Lance formation...
Black Blizzard Drillson covers ECM and has other uses too.
Di Yu Huo Regulator, Arrow variant, same speed as Drillson, pretty neat to use the already heavy TAG.
Or a Regulator and Black Blizzard combo, hide and SLAP at range...
TT
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I am not a big fan of augmented lances, specifically with jump mechs. There is no way any vehicle could keep up, outside of VTOLs.
Regarding the Dola, I always thought it was another stealth mech. I guess not. It’s an option, but loses a lot of ballast in the lance
I’m thinking it’ll just stay an Agrotera. Next time I do IWM I’ll have to add another
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2 Agrotera, 1 ShadowHawk 8L, and 1 Yinghuochong.
Well, its official.
I'm a grognard.
I don't recognize anything above outside of the word "Shadowhawk". :shocked:
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Well, its official.
I'm a grognard.
I don't recognize anything above outside of the word "Shadowhawk". :shocked:
It is a chill place to be :smilie_character_fishing:
:smilie_character_pirate2:
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Well, its official.
I'm a grognard.
I don't recognize anything above outside of the word "Shadowhawk". :shocked:
This is how the CCAF overran the Federated Suns in the Dark Ages - they didn't recognize any of their forces as 'Mechs until it was too late! :grin:
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What about a Dola 1A1? 8/12/8 movement and Angel ECM. Plus the mini is first rate.
Buy an Ostscout IIC from the Diamond Sharks.
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Well, its official.
I'm a grognard.
I don't recognize anything above outside of the word "Shadowhawk". :shocked:
Somehow I missed this. I feel that way sometimes too! Those other mechs featured in TRO: 3145 Capellan Confederation, which had a ton of nice toys for the CCAF. I don't know which TRO compilation they are in, either 3145 or 3150.
The 'realm' TRO's were great PDFs, because they had writing, art, and record sheets. Highly recommend picking them up if you are curious.
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I have one of the compilation ones IIRC, I just find that its not like the early TROs that I've owned for 30ish years & read 900 times each.
The new one I think I looked at 1x & maybe a couple check backs about a few key units I liked & then its been in storage since then, lol.
So I barely recognize one of the names & have no idea what the stats are for it.
Not like a Locust where I can give you the stats down to the Armor Points per Location from memory due to so many exposures to it.
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Any fellow Citizens had a chance to take on the IlClan in the latest WWE?
I regret to inform the strategos that in my encounter, our glorious forces of liberation were overwhelmed by those enemies of the greater humanity, the so-called Star League of Alaric the Bloodthirsty. May their day come yet!
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Any fellow Citizens had a chance to take on the IlClan in the latest WWE?
I regret to inform the strategos that in my encounter, our glorious forces of liberation were overwhelmed by those enemies of the greater humanity, the so-called Star League of Alaric the Bloodthirsty. May their day come yet!
We played the classic rules scenario twice. Went 1-1. The cappie loss was maybe 1 turn from a razor thin cappie win but we called it on time.
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Nice! Ours was more lopsided as the VP for mech destruction was weighed in an unexpected way.
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I played in the AS game as a Capellan.
We lost pretty handily, the scoring seemed very lopsided.
Our list, imo, was set up very much to the detriment of the mission and our objectives
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I played in the AS game as a Capellan.
Interesting, I played it in TW & found the Cappies had a HUGE advantage in terms of force abilities.
Since they had to take the Urbies it left the rest of their force as top end heavy/assaults.
Surprise of the day, thinking our Nova-Prime is about to open up a Stalker at point blank hoping to get to the ammo only to discover the Stalker has all Clan Weapons & Hardened Armor. DOH
2nd Surprise was finding out that the name on the RS you grabbed actually mattered.
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Interesting, I played it in TW & found the Cappies had a HUGE advantage in terms of force abilities.
Since they had to take the Urbies it left the rest of their force as top end heavy/assaults.
Surprise of the day, thinking our Nova-Prime is about to open up a Stalker at point blank hoping to get to the ammo only to discover the Stalker has all Clan Weapons & Hardened Armor. DOH
2nd Surprise was finding out that the name on the RS you grabbed actually mattered.
I think the Cappies lost handily in classic our first go around (the agent picked the lists, filling in the blanks). It was much closer in the redux with more even objective scoring for classic.
For AS we almost certainly lost in list building. We had 16 mechs, I think 5 had a TMM of 2+. Very few new modern variants (which matters less in AS but modern mechs are generally better). Our long range guns were terrible skill and short range guys who died in one hit were skill 2.
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Hmm, not sure what your GM picked, but this is from my GM's thread.
Force lists:
Clans
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Falcon Tons BV Mechwarrior G/P Adj BV
Fire Moth (Dasher) H 20 779 4/3 935
Kit Fox (Uller) K 30 1,109 Yana 3/5 1,331
Cougar I 35 1,738 Bloodnamed Pilot 2/3 2,920
Nova Cat D 70 2,084 4/5 2,084
Masakari (Warhawk) H 85 2,601 Star Commander 3/4 3,433
10,703
Wolf 5 Tons BV Mechwarrior G/P Adj BV
Pouncer D 40 2,246 Bloodnamed Pilot 4/3 2,695
Fenris (Ice Ferret) K 45 1,769 4/4 1,946
Black Hawk (Nova) Prime 50 2,663 Star Commander 3/4 3,515
Summoner (Thor) J 70 2,666 Themistocles 3/5 3,199
Mad Cat (Timber Wolf) D 75 2,682 Star Captain 3/4 3,540
14,896
25,598
Capellan Confederation
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House Hiritsu 1 Tons BV Mechwarrior G/P Adj BV
Cataphract CTF-5LL 70 2,322 Bo Transt 3/4 3,065
Longbow LGB-14V 85 1,763 2/4 2,715
Stalker STK-9F 85 2,469 2/3 4,148
Marauder II MAD-6A 100 2,367 2/3 3,977
13,905
House Hiritsu 2 Tons BV Mechwarrior G/P Adj BV
Blackjack BJ-2 45 1,148 Leon Sawyer 3/4 1,515
Trebuchet TBT-9N 50 1,550 3/4 2,046
Victor VTR-10L 80 2,279 3/4 3,008
Highlander HGN-740 90 2,232 3/4 2,946
9,516
Urbies Tons BV Mechwarrior G/P Adj BV
UrbanMech UM-R27 30 610 4/5 610
Urbanmech UM-R60 30 504 4/5 504
Urbanmech UM-R60L 30 470 4/5 470
UrbanMech UM-R68 30 561 4/5 561
2,145
25,565
As I mentioned, the Cappies had beastly mechs.
To me the major issue w/ the scenario is the deployment zones.
Based on how the Cappies choose to deploy can affect their outcome more than mech options, IMO.
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So according to the upcoming McCarron's Armored Cavalry Assault Lance Box, they're running from Capellan space and becoming mercs again. I assume they're taking a couple regiments with them.
AVAILABLE FOR HIRE!
One of the largest and most successful mercenary commands of the late Third and Fourth Succession War Eras, the “Big MAC” shocked the Inner Sphere in 3060 when they fully merged with House Liao’s military. Now, as a new era dawns, this storied command once more seeks the mercenary life.
Unleash the McCarron’s Armored Cavalry Assault Lance! Included is the new Tian-Zong, a re-posed Black Knight, and new variants of the Awesome and jumping Starslayer—no assembly required—along with four MechWarrior pilot cards and four Alpha Strike cards. Perfect for BattleTech and Alpha Strike action!
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Quite the shake up... I wonder what this means for Danai?
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This has long been suspected since that art in DD. yet more confirmation, Daoshen ****** around and found out it would seem. Big loss for the cappies.
as for what it means for Danai my guess is that we'll find out the regiments simple revolt rather then accept her as CO. Be intreasting to see how Daoshen reacts, and if he'll blame her (when this is almost certainly HIS fault)
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So the Awesome & Starslayer both have a McCarrons "feel" to them from the Scenario Pack, but I'm not thrilled w/ the other 2 mechs :(
I know the Black Knight is now a named character mech for them but overall it just never felt Cappie to me.
As for the Tian-Zong, I'd have preferred something more like a Yao Lien for a brand new frame or a Men Shen for a Pre-Jihad mech & also an OMNI which we are still lacking.
Or a nice fat boy axe monster like the Ti Ts'ang & a sniper like the Jinggau.
But I guess 2 new mechs in a box is a bit much to hope for, LOL.
On a side note, is it bad if I'm now hoping that the key to the FS turning it all around is that they Hire the MAC for a cheesy repeat of the 4th SW when they picked up the Highlanders?
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given the art in DD my guess is the MAC are going to work for the Dracs and basicly be the reason the Ghost Bear offensive goes Pear shaped for them.
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Solid guess. That's a tidy way to uphold the status quo.
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Also the FedSuns hiring the Big MAC would be ludicrously out of character for everyone. I don't think either side would trust the others not to kill them in their sleep.
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especially as the risk of Mask spies would proably be pretty high. now in 30 years once the MAC ahs been merc long eneugh that most of the people who where former CCAF are retired or dead, yeah I could see things changing then, but not right out of CCAF service.
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The Federated Suns do have a history of being pragmatic in their mercenary hires. Really, the Combine is the least pragmatic state when it comes to mercenaries, as well as the one most likely to turn the sword to them. If the Big Mac is truly at least having some units go mercenary again, it would be an ingenious move to start there for that reason, to build bona fides. If they are not, something is up.
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Some of the devs mentioned thinning out the CCAF back to parity with other houses armed forces. At least this way (Mccarron's defecting) helps achieve that without making a favorite unit unplayable.
I wonder if we'll hear about it in the Blood Will Tell sequel, and if we'll hear from Lindsey Baxter again.
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The Federated Suns do have a history of being pragmatic in their mercenary hires. Really, the Combine is the least pragmatic state when it comes to mercenaries, as well as the one most likely to turn the sword to them. If the Big Mac is truly at least having some units go mercenary again, it would be an ingenious move to start there for that reason, to build bona fides. If they are not, something is up.
There's pragmatism, and there's hiring a unit that has committed warcrimes for generations against the Capellan March. Especially with tensions between the March Lords and Julian being as high as they are, it would be a mistake to add even more tension to it, especially when you have to assume there are Mask spies as BrianDavion pointed out.
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Carrying on with the spy concern, the MAC where for a good long time, nearly a century by 3152, the premier military formation of the CCAF.
TRO 3145 describes their reputation as "Their reputation for stubborn tenacity, zealous loyalty, and
successful results"
So, Imagine you're in charge of the AFFS, 5 regiments of capellan troops FAMED FOR THEIR LOYALTY show up on yoiur doorstep and claim they wanna work for you, you gonna trust them? Or are you going to remember when happened the last time capellan troops where offered to garrison a fedsuns world (Tikonov in the FCCW, the capellans annexed the planet)
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There's pragmatism, and there's hiring a unit that has committed warcrimes for generations against the Capellan March. Especially with tensions between the March Lords and Julian being as high as they are, it would be a mistake to add even more tension to it, especially when you have to assume there are Mask spies as BrianDavion pointed out.
Forget £generations", that was gleefully committing atrocities up and down the Capellan March less than three years ago (in-universe), and Daoshen just executed the least war crime-y MAC regimental commander (Gwendolyn Vaughan, 5 MAC's CO) for a bunch of stuff that's his own damn fault.
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The Northwind Highlanders were zealous and highly regarded line units for the CCAF until the 4th.
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I wonder if we'll hear about it in the Blood Will Tell sequel, and if we'll hear from Lindsey Baxter again.
There's going to be a sequel? Exciting!
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The Northwind Highlanders were zealous and highly regarded line units for the CCAF until the 4th.
There's a difference between zealous and highly regarded and actively hostile to the state in question. Both the Davion Brigade of Guards and the Syrtis Fusiliers are highly zealous and well regarded, but I'm willing to bet the Capellans would be much more comfortable working with the Guards.
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In the case of the Confederation, it really depends on who is in charge. With Maximilian he really would not have cared who the unit was, or of its reputation because he was stylized to be exceedingly masterful at his manipulations before the Fourth. The Fourth was his loss.
Romano would simply have them killed.
I could similarly see Sun-Tzu being pragmatic if it suited him, but would establish barriers that Maximilian likely would not have.
With Daoshen, he would probably find ways to use them whilst deciding between granting them citizenship or servitorship while they were doing his dirty work. He would be more apt to out-doublecross them in the end.
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There's a difference between zealous and highly regarded and actively hostile to the state in question. Both the Davion Brigade of Guards and the Syrtis Fusiliers are highly zealous and well regarded, but I'm willing to bet the Capellans would be much more comfortable working with the Guards.
yeah no, if the Davion Brigade of guards defected and tried to go emrcenary I'd fully expect NO ONE to hire them eaither :P
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Na, the Lyran Commonwealth would hire them in a hurry. Frankly in their shape, I would not be surprised if they were sending agents to Tortuga Prime (Well that is hyperbolic, but not so much).
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Vastly upsetting as the MAC are my Capellan brigade :cry:
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It's always possible they won't leave wholesale. Maybe there will be a schism with certain elements staying behind; those loyal to Danai, perhaps?
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It's always possible they won't leave wholesale. Maybe there will be a schism with certain elements staying behind; those loyal to Danai, perhaps?
Any that stay will be suspect and probably executed by Daoshen in his egomania.
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Romano Liao didn't kill the Northwind Highlanders who stayed, and she was at least as vicious and unstable as Daoshen, so I don't think it's a guarantee.
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I imagine if any stay behind they'll get a "rebrand" to "Confederation Armored Cavalry" or something.
Hell it's possiable that Daoshen provokes the Mutiny by ATTEMPTING to force a rename "well Danai is in charge now, and thus the brigade is to be named the 'Liao Armored Cavalry"
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It's always possible they won't leave wholesale. Maybe there will be a schism with certain elements staying behind; those loyal to Danai, perhaps?
Yes I've been wondering if the 2nd MAC will stay while the other four regiments defect. Danai seems to have a cult of personality so it's likely enough.
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What we know of the status of the factories in Victoria?
Historical: Wars of the Republic Era tells us that all facilities were in ruins for one reason or another (Shengli, Trellis Electronics and Earthwerks). We know by other products that the FS sold what remained of Shengli to Kallon, that produced a number of FS mechs like Shadow Hawks, Jagermechs and Penetrators, and apparently after the CC retook the planet, the facility was renamed Shengli again (as per Shrapnel #12 Jinggau entry). Kallon was also making the Paladin Defense System.
Now, i can imagine Trellis Electronics beign rebuild to produce stuff for the Kallon lines. But....what happened to Earthwerk´s lines? They used to build the Flea, but MUL does not show any Flea model beign used by the FS. We know that Earthwerks was also building the Flea in Grand Base, so....we can assume that the Victoria facility was destroyed, or, if it was rebuild, its building Fleas for the mercenary market?
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Page 63 of the Republic wars states "The factories were returned to functionality in the next decade". So the assumption should be that all factories were churning out material again. Though as you suggest some perhaps only for mercenary markets.
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also possible that when they rebuilt them, they retooled them for some other mech design.
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From FM3145: "When the Haseks drove the Capellans from Vic
also possible that when they rebuilt them, they retooled them for some other mech design.
Given that the rebuild Shengli factories were doing just that, that's the most logical assumption.
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also possible that when they rebuilt them, they retooled them for some other mech design.
Update: Looks like Earthwerks´s Victoria facility survived, and was, at least, building the Crosscut Loggermech and MODs for it (TRO Irregulars). Whats gives me some doubs, mostly because english is not my main language and maybe dont get the full meaning, is this fragment:
A more elaborate refit employs one of the many surplus GM 120 engines left over from endless “bug-’Mech” production. Performed only when a spare reactor is available, this MOD equips a powerful extended range large laser.
It talks about "many surplus GM 120 engines left over", but later says "when a spare reactor is avaible"....so, Earthwerks Victoria have a surplus of GM 120 engines, but they are using them for "something" and only when there is a spare the create the Crosscut MOD?
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General Motors are making the 120 on Victoria because of the Flea productions. Either the OG 17 or the updated 19 models.
Victoria (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Earthwerks_Incorporated#Victoria)
UPDATE: It looks like the Crosscut MOD is the E variant, not the A as listed, when talking about the "large laser". Which would be used like the old Panther-10K, creating 1 extra heat point and not enough to effectively cool down before you have to disengage, otherwise Stackpole (https://pixels.com/featured/1-atomic-bomb-test-nuclear-mushroom-cloud-celestial-images.html) happens?
TT