Author Topic: Talk to me about ... using infantry in gmes  (Read 7682 times)

Colt Ward

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Re: Talk to me about ... using infantry in gmes
« Reply #30 on: 14 October 2019, 15:05:48 »
For organization & administration, its a good call . . . but always green, lol.
Colt Ward
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Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Talk to me about ... using infantry in gmes
« Reply #31 on: 14 October 2019, 15:12:34 »
Unless I read the rules wrong (and I might have) APGR’s shred Infantry.

My Ghost Bear Nova is fighting a combined arms Hell Horses Star and he’s using a couple IFVs and Infantry points. A couple rounds of “oh god Infantry are good Ambushers’ and ‘you did how much damage to my Mechs?’ and then it dissolved into ‘oh well they were cool while they lasted’.

Wolf72

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Re: Talk to me about ... using infantry in gmes
« Reply #32 on: 14 October 2019, 15:14:06 »
3d6 damage at 9 hexes.   :thumbsup:
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Weirdo

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Re: Talk to me about ... using infantry in gmes
« Reply #33 on: 14 October 2019, 15:31:58 »
Good infantry ambushes are rarely slugfests. The Hells Horses player should have done his ambush, then immediately pulled the infantry back. Use mechs and vees to draw attention away and make you forget about the infantry for the moment, then set up another ambush. They'll take losses from return fire that turn, but between the terrain they're taking cover in and Clan body armor, you should have to point a LOT of firepower at a given platoon to make it outright die. This goes doubly true in cities. Infantry that stay in a single building too long are almost guaranteed to have said building become their tomb.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Talk to me about ... using infantry in gmes
« Reply #34 on: 14 October 2019, 15:50:59 »
Yeah . . . usually if your infantry dies quickly, you did something wrong.
Colt Ward
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Re: Talk to me about ... using infantry in gmes
« Reply #35 on: 14 October 2019, 15:53:47 »
Or the other guy did something excessively right. If your opponent has a severe hate for infantry and comes loaded to the gills with oodles of plasma, APGRs, and such...nothing's gonna save your troops. On the upside, a force that focused is likely weaker in other areas, something you can take advantage of. >:D
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Colt Ward

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Re: Talk to me about ... using infantry in gmes
« Reply #36 on: 14 October 2019, 16:13:20 »
Yup . . .

Combined Arms- the art of letting your enemy pick their poison.
Colt Ward
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Daryk

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Re: Talk to me about ... using infantry in gmes
« Reply #37 on: 14 October 2019, 16:36:45 »
Rock-Paper-Scissors on steroids!  >:D

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Re: Talk to me about ... using infantry in gmes
« Reply #38 on: 14 October 2019, 16:37:14 »
EXACTLY. :thumbsup:
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Daryk

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Re: Talk to me about ... using infantry in gmes
« Reply #39 on: 14 October 2019, 16:38:12 »
That's at least ONE thing we're completely agreed on!  :thumbsup:

Weirdo

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Re: Talk to me about ... using infantry in gmes
« Reply #40 on: 14 October 2019, 16:42:17 »
Deliverers of bad choices unite!
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Re: Talk to me about ... using infantry in gmes
« Reply #41 on: 14 October 2019, 16:44:30 »
Ouch... I'm feeling so less than nerd-adequate right now... I recognize Thor and Batman, but not the third hero there...  :-[

Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Talk to me about ... using infantry in gmes
« Reply #42 on: 14 October 2019, 18:22:22 »
Yeah . . . usually if your infantry dies quickly, you did something wrong.

I was using a Pair of Fire Moth’s, a Pair of Viper-I’s, and a Tyr (custom Ghost Bear Assault Mech like a Kodiak of sorts). Opponent had Gnomes, Buraq’s, Epona’s, Motorized, Infantry, Balius, and Woodsman (?).

He drove the Epona’s into my lighter forces as I tried to flank them: put some hurt on one Viper. Next round I won Init and said no more Infantry: he didn’t have time to really retreat them.

I agree completely: ambush, ambush, ambush. Battle Taxi’s and the like IMO are necessary unless you are able to deploy hidden units ahead of time.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Talk to me about ... using infantry in gmes
« Reply #43 on: 14 October 2019, 20:59:22 »
Or the other guy did something excessively right. If your opponent has a severe hate for infantry and comes loaded to the gills with oodles of plasma, APGRs, and such...nothing's gonna save your troops. On the upside, a force that focused is likely weaker in other areas, something you can take advantage of. >:D

Unless they're just running with plasma rifles.  Then it really doesn't matter what you throw at them.
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Retry

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Re: Talk to me about ... using infantry in gmes
« Reply #44 on: 14 October 2019, 21:58:19 »
Unless they're just running with plasma rifles.  Then it really doesn't matter what you throw at them.
One or two Long Tom Cannons for good measure.  Consistently and accurately eats anything small or fast, especially BA and infantry.  Its disadvantage is essentially that against Heavies/Assaults it's "merely" good.

truetanker

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Re: Talk to me about ... using infantry in gmes
« Reply #45 on: 15 October 2019, 17:37:43 »
I've had good issues with the Indra and Fast Recon Nova Star.

Mixing a trinary of Infantry with a Star of tanks!

Clan Space Marine Point carried by each Indra and a Fast Recon Point riding shotgun for each tank point!

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Col Toda

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Re: Talk to me about ... using infantry in gmes
« Reply #46 on: 02 January 2020, 10:30:01 »
In campaigns  you need infantry  to hold rear areas and do police  action  . To break up a mob unit you need tear gas type 1 chemical  ordinance  and snipers with rubber  bullets  . This near guarantees the break up of a mob unit without war crime mass casualties  .

For non rear area action having an APC with battle armor or infantry  stay under cover and survive  a combat allows immediate  salvage under the rules. Without that you have a chance  a second  fight just for the salvage  . This above any other reason makes having infantry in a combined arms unit a necessity.

Mohammed As`Zaman Bey

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Re: Talk to me about ... using infantry in gmes
« Reply #47 on: 02 January 2020, 20:11:05 »
  I have always considered it a boon to my gaming club to have several members who served in the military, especially the Army. These members appreciated the value of infantry far more than the less experienced players, who believed that battlemechs were the ultimate weapons on the map. The less experienced players often learned very hard lessons at the hands of our veterans, who would turn a simple scouting mission into a nightmare of ambushes or a city into a death trap for unsupported 'mechs.

  Campaign-wise, 'mechs and vehicles cannot hold most targets, so infantry is the best item in your toolbox.

  In cities or forest, infantry units move almost invisibly, and serve as spotters or tripwires to enemy movement. Dug in and concealed, a platoon of VLAW-armed soldiers act as a minefield with reach, capable of dropping a light mech or distracting heavier machines while other assets move up to support them.

  We have played tabletop battle with ONLY infantry -Not a 'mech or vehicle on the map, and in one campaign, infantry was the only means to capture an HPG station held by Blakists. There's nothing like taking down a prototype suit of powered armor with a bayonet charge. 

  During the early Clan invasion, infantry was crucial, as the Clan omnis usually ignored anything that wasn't a 'mech, which invited numerous rear attacks.

StoneRhino

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Re: Talk to me about ... using infantry in gmes
« Reply #48 on: 15 January 2020, 01:28:49 »
We just had a game on Saturday where a friend and I had a force where each of us had 8 platoons with a few vtol transports, arty, and lrm boats. The game was played on a 3x2 map area, the maximum the local shop's tables can support. The other side deployed on their middle map that was filled with hills instead of the other 2 maps that were a mix of clear, forest, and a few hill hexes.

It has been a long time since I played against people that I didn't honestly believe would not break down and cry as many of them have hated the 3 lrm platoons tht I would normally bring and use defensively. Things were not expected to go down perfectly, but it went pretty well. As the other side was walking around their hills setting up for a long range stand off as they had 2 allacorns, Devestator, Mad IIC with dual hag40s, and other stuff that had long range weapons we threw our infantry at them. 8 platoons dropped in one turn on top of their units. The next turn another 8 got dropped off. Half of them were jump-rifle platoons for their MP, others were TAG spotters and LRM platoons. The rifles were there to crit while the others were to TAG for four Arrow IV launchers, while the LRM platoons were just there to take shots at things; particularly their vehicles.

Things didn't go according to plan, but as I said its been a long time so this was a trial run. We lost our TAG units when an artillery shell strayed onto my friend's platoon. We lost mine when a Pirhanna decided abandon his role of screening against my 3 raptors and randomly decided to shoot at a platoon, which happened to be the TAG unit. Without TAG we had to use standard rounds, but we didn't coordinate where we were firing, which would cost us a few more platoons as one mech wandered right into the targeted hex, but I had just moved a platoon into his hex to leg attack and one behind him. Another shell strayed and magically....landed in the same hex as a platoon that just got in front of the opposing artillery that had nothing to deal with them.

What did go right was that all of the opposing units were clustered on a single map running around. They didn't have many AI weapons other then what the Pirhanna had and he was kept busy since we had 2 of their assault mechs within the range of the platoons for leg attacks, which equaled 25% of their force's BV. The MAD IIC wasted shots on some of the transports, while it killed 1 with a platoon on board, it wasted a shot that would have hurt more had it been used against one of our mechs hitting them from the side. I also had a single LRM platoon that nobody paid attention to who served as a reliable spotter, which allowed us to do a lot of damage with indirect lrm fire.

What could be done to improve upon this:
Make sure that we know where the other is firing artillery and avoid putting platoons near those hexes.

Maybe bring another TAG unit or two as it was bad luck that one was hit with a shell and the other was randomly selected for no reason as the player did not know nor ask what the platoon had before deciding to fire at it with the pirhana's MGs.

The end result was for a total of about 1,400 BV2(transports included) we kept a 20k BV2 force pinned down for 5 or 6 turns on the map that they deployed on. The majority of the damage that was done in that game was from artillery and indirect LRM fire. A few Raptor Bs roasted the 2 Alacorns with infernos by knocking out an engine and stunning the crew for at least 6 turns while the other was stunned so badly that we simply didn't finish the attack and I decided to not even roll the 3rd raptor's launchers. That put the raptors in a position for backshots on the devestator that had taken some leg damage, one crit from a rifle platoon's leg attack. A few Firemoth H's got blasted trying to take out a Kraken 3 and Blitzkrieg of ours. We were 2-3k light, which means we could have had additional pressure on them. It wasn't until the final turn that the other side attempted to get some of it's units off of that map, but by then we had blasted most of our infantry, their assaults were stripped of their armor, and I had my O-Bakemono within direct fire range of the devestator who was trying to get away from the lights and remaining infantry.

Had those TAG units survived the platoons would have had several more leg attacks, more of our artillery would have hit the right targets on top of what we ended up doing without them. I would estimate that to be about 80-100 points of wasted damage. About 5 platoons of infantry would have been alive a lot longer. Of the artillery damage that was done it would have been in 20 point clusters instead of 5 point clusters, which might have made a difference.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Talk to me about ... using infantry in gmes
« Reply #49 on: 15 January 2020, 01:48:52 »
That's a heck of a lot of infantry.  Did the other team have reason to expect you to be deploying infantry on that scale beforehand?
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Daryk

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Re: Talk to me about ... using infantry in gmes
« Reply #50 on: 15 January 2020, 04:37:56 »
They had a Piranha, so my guess is yes...

Hellraiser

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Re: Talk to me about ... using infantry in gmes
« Reply #51 on: 15 January 2020, 05:36:56 »
A six-Trooper Jump Squad fits into one ton, which is the bog standard compartment for "Squads" (up to TEN foot sloggers). 

You sure about that?   21 Troopers / 4 Tons = 5.25 Men per Ton.   (You can't round that guy up)

I don't have the actual Kilo figures with me right now but if what your saying is true then a Jump Platoon should actually be only 3.5 tons.
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Hellraiser

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Re: Talk to me about ... using infantry in gmes
« Reply #52 on: 15 January 2020, 05:44:02 »
Those who frequent the Minis forum know I like making combined arms units - typically battalion-sized. So this means I have on the order of 58 companies of infantry in all shapes - foot, mechanised, motorised, BA, etc.

Leaving BA aside for the moment, I'd like to get people talking about their actual in-game use & experience with infantry. Barring Weirdo's games, we've got (I think) 3 basic types:

1) Foot infantry, either legging it, or with transport
2) Motorised infantry
3) Mechanised infantry

Infantry have some apparent benefits when used as pre-positioned spotters, when used in urban or congested terrain, or as objectives (eg. "take  a building"). But what I want to hear is what you who've used them think. When did they work? What's key to successfully using them? What's fun about using them?

And side issues - battle taxi, or IFV? Etc.


I tend to favor Jump & Motorized myself so they have some mobility in a combined arms battlefield.

That said, a few leg platoons protecting your parked LRM Carriers/Artillery is never a bad thing.


One of my favorite uses was a few years ago.

Jihad era campaign that allowed custom infantry creation.

I took a basic motorized 28 man platoon,   gave them FC3030 armor w/ 2 Heavy Sup Lasers & ARs per squad.

Used a 3025 Karnov to deposit them ahead of the main force on turn 1 behind a hill, then bugged out w/ the Karnov.

Turn 2 saw them climb the hill into some trees.

They never moved from that point on & dished out many crits from 15 hexes.

They hammered an Atlas-8D so badly it moved away because as much as he wanted to spray infernos on them, they were far too lucky getting TACs & Head/Pilot hits with the small clusters.

Good times!  :)

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Daryk

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Re: Talk to me about ... using infantry in gmes
« Reply #53 on: 15 January 2020, 16:46:06 »
I'm positive about that.  Tech Manual page 155 gives 0.165 tons per jump trooper.  Six of those is 0.99 tons.  Granted, that's not Anti-Mech capable, but regular jump troops fit.

Hellraiser

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Re: Talk to me about ... using infantry in gmes
« Reply #54 on: 15 January 2020, 18:15:01 »
Ah, I see, you went with the non-AM troops v/s the canon weights that use AM capable troops.
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Daryk

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Re: Talk to me about ... using infantry in gmes
« Reply #55 on: 15 January 2020, 18:19:23 »
The non-AM troops are canon by TM...

Hellraiser

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Re: Talk to me about ... using infantry in gmes
« Reply #56 on: 15 January 2020, 19:02:20 »
Canon wasn't the right word I guess, I mean the generic TW troops & traditional 3-4-6 weights which I thought was clear from my previous post.
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Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Daryk

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Re: Talk to me about ... using infantry in gmes
« Reply #57 on: 15 January 2020, 19:33:28 »
I think TPTB simply forgot to update the standard weights when they changed the way they accounted for Anti-Mech capability.

StoneRhino

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Re: Talk to me about ... using infantry in gmes
« Reply #58 on: 16 January 2020, 04:52:19 »
That's a heck of a lot of infantry.  Did the other team have reason to expect you to be deploying infantry on that scale beforehand?


I have always fielded either 3 platoons of infantry, or 3 squads of BA. I have also used at least 1 vehicle per game as well. The reason for that has been to allow for a minimum presence and level of interaction with those unit types.

The other team started playing BT last year. 1 of 2 is someone that I have played online games with for years, and the other is a friend of his. These 2 have had a much easier time getting into the game and have jumped into optional rules and gear on their own.

Lets just say that one of them asked me to not hold back, which I have done in the past with others because they would complain and whine about the 3 platoons. This was meant to show them that mechs aren't everything. Also, if they want to try and cluster up on a single map and take up position behind hills that it could easily become a problem for them.

Was it a lot of infantry? On paper it was, but we vaporized half of them on accident. I think the result was that they got enough of a shock that they will be considering how to defend against infantry at least a bit more. The damage that they took in the game versus what they did was very lopsided, which will have them thinking. I'm looking forward to what they come up with as a response for the next game.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Talk to me about ... using infantry in gmes
« Reply #59 on: 16 January 2020, 12:00:13 »
Sounds interesting.
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