Do you think we will ever see the homeworld clans again?

[Lboydmsw]

After the Wars of Reaving there has been no information on what is happening with the homeworld clans.  I know Battletech is and always has been predominantly a story about the Inner sphere but does anyone think there is enough interest for either a second clan invasion after ilclan or a sourcebook on "here what's been happening with the homeworld clans since 3076?  I mean there is roughly 75 years of potential growth, destruction, self-annihilation for them from the last we heard of them to the current timeline.

I know there hasn't been any official word on the matter but common fan theories, personal speculations?

[Drewbacca]

Maybe. Depends on if they even exist anymore?

[Mendrugo]

The presence of both a snake emblem and a blood red disc loosely associated with the secret faction that took down the HPGs on Gray Monday suggests that said secret faction might have ties to the Blood Spirits and/or Cloud Cobras or Star Adders.  (Of course, since then, the Bloodies got themselves extirpated, so...) 

Still, at the end of Fortress Republic, an unknown faction appeared over Terra to a collective "What the?!!!", so that could be anything from a Home Clan Coalition fleet to a Giant Space Hamster.

[Sartris]

now i have the image of a hamster filling its cheeks with asteroids and chewing on a planet like a carrot slice

i think WoR was written as a final "well, there goes the neighborhood" for the clan homeworlds and the remaining clans will either drift into the near periphery or exist off screen.

Still, at the end of Fortress Republic, an unknown faction appeared over Terra to a collective "What the?!!!",

this would constitute the greatest military maneuver in history - hannibal-over-the-alps magnified to the thousandth power... unless someone like the bears gave them the pass-through to stick it to the wolves. i'm hoping for that because i live for maximum petty.

[rebs]

We'll see the Homies again one day.  It will happen at the worst time for the IS, giving their teeth even more of a bite.

[dgorsman]

... unless someone like the bears gave them the pass-through to stick it to the wolves...

What, again?  My how history repeats itself. >:D

[Luciora]

We'll see the Homies again one day.  It will happen at the worst time for the IS, giving their teath even more of a bite.

[Jellico]

If comics have taught me anything it is that everybody, no matter how obscure, has a fan boy or girl and one day that person will become an author and bring them back.

[Natasha Kerensky]

If they do show up, I just hope they’re no longer the Clans Mk II.  Ironically, the Society (or what it could have become) was more interesting than The Clans, Now More Extreme Than Ever treatment that the Homeworlders got at the end of WoR.

[glitterboy2098]

if they arrive in the inner sphere at all, i'd honestly expect them to be determined exterminators.. a clan flavored take on the WOB Jihad on its worst days.

[Sartris]

oh for sure. if they're motivated enough to come  down the invasion corridor, you know they're showing up PISSED

[Robroy]

As long as they have suffered some tech back slide. They have destroyed whole worlds, fought total war for the first time (for them), and decimated their scientists. Every other group that has gone through that does not come out better off.

[Ogra_Chief]

I personally hope they return or at least most make the journey to the IS, leaving the remnants of the Society to take over Clan space. The Society makes for a great deep periphery faction.

Hopefully the Home Clans cut a bloody swath through the Combine forever shattering it's annoying plot armor leaving that nation no better off than the Capellans at the end of the 4SW.

Then proceed to wipe forever the original invading Clans from the timeline like an evil Marty Mcfly. The Wolves, for the sin of ferro-lamellor plot armor and Wolf Empire (I'll take 12 year romantic fan-fic over the canocity of that name), and numerous other canonous crimes against BT. The Jade Falcons, for never being better than the Wolves, never killing the Wolves-in-Exile nonsense, never going back to the Homeworlds to spank a little rear end when everyone lost their ever-loving mind, and not blasting the Lyran Alliance into oblivion (greatest sin of all) when given the opportunity. I expected so much more from you... *sigh* The Diamond Sharks/Sea Foxes, because they can't make up their mind what to be called, they're Amazon Prime in space-with guns... and have serve no other purpose, not privateers, brigands, or mercenaries, nope space Wal-Mart. The Ghost Bears, because they do nothing, rip the Combine a new one, no; let me sit here and do absolutely nothing. Not channel my inner clan and remind everyone what's makes us cool. Nah. I hope all of the invading Clans are wiped, dying stupidly and humorously.

Let the Home Clans be the new Clans, the TRUE Clans, the we kill stuff because we can Clans; because peace is for the weak, trade and understanding for the short-sighted, comprise for the degenerate. No let all the stinking inner sphere masses know, the iron boot of the TRUE Clans has returned to settle upon the neck of the degenerate, weak-willed, simple minded, monkeys that infest the paradise  that is Terra and your taint shall be removed from its blessed shores.

So, yes. I hope the Home Clans return.  >:D

[Frabby]

I expect the Clan Invasion IIC to happen around 3250, and/or around the 50th Anniversary celebrations.

[HABeas2]

I expect the Clan Invasion IIC to happen around 3250, and/or around the 50th Anniversary celebrations.

Heh.

- Herb

[RifleMech]

I'd like to see the Homeworld Clans again. I'm just not sure how I'd like to see them. As invaders, as the invaded, or just an update as to how they're doing.

[rebs]

I agree.  Something like a 100 year update on the Home Clans would be a cool product. 

[Mendrugo]

I still wouldn’t be surprised if the mysterious faction that took out the HPGs was a Home Clan Coalition, with that fleet broadcasting the batchall being theirs. 

Who else would have the tech to breach the Fortress?  None of the players in the Dark Age setting were able to discern its mechanism in 15 years of trying. 

Having the architects of Gray Monday reveal themselves at last would be narratively satisfying, even if it does give us the Stone Lions or Star Adders as the ilClan.

[Sartris]

Indulge a moment of YouTube illuminati speculation

The font on the cover of wars of reaving and the mock-up of ilclan - the same

Homeclans... confirmed??

This concludes dumb speculation

[YingJanshi]

I still wouldn’t be surprised if the mysterious faction that took out the HPGs was a Home Clan Coalition, with that fleet broadcasting the batchall being theirs. 

Who else would have the tech to breach the Fortress?  None of the players in the Dark Age setting were able to discern its mechanism in 15 years of trying. 

Having the architects of Gray Monday reveal themselves at last would be narratively satisfying, even if it does give us the Stone Lions or Star Adders as the ilClan.

Could very well be misremembering...but I thought the walls had come down by the time that fleet showed up?

And as for the Homeworlders showing up again...I just hope its in a way that's more interesting than just "Clan Invasion 2: Electric Boogaloo...

[Mendrugo]

Could very well be misremembering...but I thought the walls had come down by the time that fleet showed up?

And as for the Homeworlders showing up again...I just hope its in a way that's more interesting than just "Clan Invasion 2: Electric Boogaloo...

The Prefecture X barrier came down as part of Operation SHOFAR, but Terra’s barrier was still up.  A Wolf courier bounced off it, stalling Alaric’s drive to Terra.

[Drewbacca]

SHOFAR sho good.

[SteveRestless]

More and more, I begin to suspect we will not see the Home Clans invading the Inner Sphere. No, I suspect we will see the other way around. A Clan, does not matter for the sake of this which clan (though the evidence seems to point to Wolf IYAME) becomes ilClan, and after shoring things up in the sphere, uses the reconquest of the Clan Homeworlds, an Operation Klondike II: Electric Boogaloo, as a team-building exercise for the Sphere clans under their leadership.

Regardless of whether we come to them, or they come to us, I do expect some conflicts of Loyalty, Horses siding with their Lion brothers, or Coyotes and Wolves showing that their ancient bond is not forgotten.

[Gaiiten]

More and more, I begin to suspect we will not see the Home Clans invading the Inner Sphere. No, I suspect we will see the other way around. A Clan, does not matter for the sake of this which clan (though the evidence seems to point to Wolf IYAME) becomes ilClan, and after shoring things up in the sphere, uses the reconquest of the Clan Homeworlds, an Operation Klondike II: Electric Boogaloo, as a team-building exercise for the Sphere clans under their leadership.

Regardless of whether we come to them, or they come to us, I do expect some conflicts of Loyalty, Horses siding with their Lion brothers, or Coyotes and Wolves showing that their ancient bond is not forgotten.

I would prefer this direction either. Hopefully, the Home Clans can resist the attacks of the Inner Sphere and the ongoing deep space confict is slowly weakening the Inner Sphere Star League so that internal conflicts will break the League and ilClan.

[Stormlion1]

Didnt we have word the Homeworld Clans were busy invading there closer neighbors like the Umayyids and the Hanseitic League?

[Orwell84]

Didnt we have word the Homeworld Clans were busy invading there closer neighbors like the Umayyids and the Hanseitic League?

At last report (c. 3090), the Coyotes and Adders were mounting raids upon the Imperio, giving their young Aggressors a chance to vent their genocidal wrath and planting seeds of Not-Named 'taint' within the Imperio's Clan-born leaders.

Like other posters above I'm itching to see the Home Clans again, plus the Imperio, but sadly I doubt there's enough fanbase demand for that. But if we are fortunate enough for them to make a reappearance, a straight-forward Revival 2.0 doesn't seem likely for both in-universe reasons and from a storytelling standpoint. SteveRestless and Gaiiten's scenarios seem more plausible.

[Talen5000]

As long as they have suffered some tech back slide. They have destroyed whole worlds, fought total war for the first time (for them), and decimated their scientists. Every other group that has gone through that does not come out better off.

And they have these things called libraries and  memory cores, automated factories and refineries.

There is no rationale behind a "tech slide"....in anything, the relatively heavy loss of infrastructure gives them an ability to easily upgrade much of their infrastructure.

At worst, you could argue the Clans progress might have stalled while they retrained and reestablished  a scientist caste and allowed the Inner Sphere to catch up but that was happening anyway.

[Talen5000]

Heh.

- Herb

I kinda expect it myself, but to be honest, I"d prefer a far longer time jump than a mere century

[Talen5000]

Didnt we have word the Homeworld Clans were busy invading there closer neighbors like the Umayyids and the Hanseitic League?

The last we had was the Coyotes trying to conquer the Imperio to remove itself from the Adder Collective.

[Orwell84]

The last we had was the Coyotes trying to conquer the Imperio to remove itself from the Adder Collective.

Has that been confirmed as canon? From the source* it sounded more like a hypothetical scenario than hard fact.

*Campaign Operations, p. 180

[Robroy]

And they have these things called libraries and  memory cores, automated factories and refineries.

There is no rationale behind a "tech slide"....in anything, the relatively heavy loss of infrastructure gives them an ability to easily upgrade much of their infrastructure.

At worst, you could argue the Clans progress might have stalled while they retrained and reestablished  a scientist caste and allowed the Inner Sphere to catch up but that was happening anyway.

In the BT universe, yeah it has been plenty of reason for regression. All depends on what the plot demands.

[Talen5000]

In the BT universe, yeah it has been plenty of reason for regression. All depends on what the plot demands.

Because the libraries and core, factories and techs were destroyed. Because  commercial secrets were lost. And because everyone was affected. Not to mention ComStar.

Those scenarios did not happen in the Wars of Reaving. The entire scientist caste was not destroyed.

There is no reason to expect tech degradation.

[Talen5000]

Has that been confirmed as canon? From the source* it sounded more like a hypothetical scenario than hard fact.

*Campaign Operations, p. 180

Last it was commented on, yes.

The post confirming it should still be on the boards somewhere.

However, given its nature, easy enough to retcon or redesignate as an example rather than canon

[pixelgeek]

There is no reason to expect tech degradation.

Have to agree. The loss of technology in the Inner Sphere was caused by a confluence of events and not just the loss of scientists. Also, Comstar’s efforts to eliminate scientists and science programs was probably far more focused and deliberate than what occurred in the Reaving. The IS lost people, factories and data over an extended period of time which caused the decay of IS tech levels.

[Sartris]

Yeah this was more like a duel to the death where the victor suffered wounds but wasn’t maimed. They still have their sword and their house wasn’t burned down.

The only remnant of the battle over time is rage

[RifleMech]

memory cores are useless without electricity. They also can't be read without the right computer. It's like putting a library on a MicroSD card and the only computers available use 1.25 in floppy disks.


As for reaving of the Scientists, while the entire caste wasn't reaved many many individuals were. That's an incredible loss of knowledge and experience.  It won't easily be replaced even if they still have memory cores.

[Talen5000]

memory cores are useless without electricity. They also can't be read without the right computer. It's like putting a library on a MicroSD card and the only computers available use 1.25 in floppy disks.

And this is relevant to the homeworlds...how?

As for reaving of the Scientists, while the entire caste wasn't reaved many many individuals were. That's an incredible loss of knowledge and experience.  It won't easily be replaced even if they still have memory cores.

Yep - hence "slowed down", but not eliminated or regressed. The Clans were also big into recording knowledge so whatever projects they were working on likely survived.

No, they'll need to rebuild and ensure the loyalty of their scientists but there is no reason behind a regression of tech.

[Wotan]

There is definitely a slow down in production rate as many factories are damaged or destroyed. Sources normally only name factories, with mech assembly lines. But we also know that there are dozens of component suppliers for each mech. We can also expect that trade of necessary parts is broken as remaining ressources and factories must be allocated to each surviving clan, new trade agreements must be settled etc.

But sure as hell we don't see a tech decrease like we had seen in the Succession Wars. Even more i still think the homeworld clans will focus on new development as they know the day will come to face their tainted brethren. And they will be prepared - more so with the lead of the Adders.

[RifleMech]

And this is relevant to the homeworlds...how?

Yep - hence "slowed down", but not eliminated or regressed. The Clans were also big into recording knowledge so whatever projects they were working on likely survived.

No, they'll need to rebuild and ensure the loyalty of their scientists but there is no reason behind a regression of tech.

You can't read memory cores if you lose the power plants. You'd have to rebuild them before you can read the core and you can't do that if those in the know are dead.

And yet the Clans seemed to forget that the Imp was one of their designs when they sent some along with Wolf's Dragoons.

Again if those with the know how are dead, you're starting all over.  A scientist may know how to design a small laser but not how to design the factory to make it.

[Wotan]

And yet the Clans seemed to forget that the Imp was one of their designs when they sent some along with Wolf's Dragoons.

Most likely there were Scientists within the clans who had known that - but the warriors didn't ask them.  ;)

[RifleMech]

Most likely there were Scientists within the clans who had known that - but the warriors didn't ask them.  ;)

 :) Could be.  :thumbsup:

[Talen5000]

You can't read memory cores if you lose the power plants. You'd have to rebuild them before you can read the core and you can't do that if those in the know are dead.

The Clans never lost power plants and those in the know aren't dead. Just reduced in number.

Again if those with the know how are dead, you're starting all over.  A scientist may know how to design a small laser but not how to design the factory to make it.

Which is not going to happen anyway. Weapon Masters probably aren't going to have an extensive knowledge of robotics and AI necessary to build  a Clan factory, other scientists and engineers would and do. As we know the Home Clans are rebuilding...WoRS....we know both groups survived.

There is going to be disruption, certainly...but no tech regression and the Clans did not blow themselves back to the stone age. The only Clan that had to seriously destroy its scientist caste were the Coyotes. And they Trialled for more to rebuild.

[Gaiiten]

You may consider that the Scientist caste of the Clans was a very secretive and hardly a united.
Mistrust, jiggery-pokeries, favouritism, petty jealousy, cabals-within-cabals were characteristics.
If you have worked in universities you may imagine what I mean, but might multiply this by factor 25.

In WoR we are told that there was hardly a well-organized strategic/theoretical researchment in the scientist caste, partly because the warriors did not want this due neglecting and ignorance, partly because the scientists were too easygoing/lazy.
IMHO most of the technological breakthroughs/advancements were done by the engineer-subcaste.

Post WoR this might change, depending what the "Great Game" of the Home Clans for the future might be.
Due the destruction the "Inner Chains" of the scientist caste (because of the destruction of the Society and killing of most of the old scientist caste leadership) and approval by the warriors there could be a renaissance of science among the Home Clans.

----------
Due the decimation of the scientist caste I believe the Clans could add some numbers if they recruit the brightest among the technican caste.
Furthermore I believe among the technicans might be a number of ex-scientists which were degraded because some issues (even due some intrigues).

[Hawkeye Jim]

Perhaps the remnants of the Society and WOB will find each other and make common cause. if they take in enough of the disaffected, outcast and angry from both IS and Clan. perhaps they can become strong enough to take revenge on somebody. The Homeworld clans might be the easier target.

[Maingunnery]

Due the destruction the "Inner Chains" of the scientist caste (because of the destruction of the Society and killing of most of the old scientist caste leadership) and approval by the warriors there could be a renaissance of science among the Home Clans.

Nope, the blame lay fully on the warriors there, they forced the scientists to research a lot in secret, which in turn made the Society grow.
It is the very obsession on the Warrior (DNA) which lead to technological stagnation in the Clans. And unless something fundamentally changes, it will just happen again.
What we can expect is: recovery -> adaptation -> growth -> stagnation

[RifleMech]

The Clans never lost power plants and those in the know aren't dead. Just reduced in number.


Which is not going to happen anyway. Weapon Masters probably aren't going to have an extensive knowledge of robotics and AI necessary to build  a Clan factory, other scientists and engineers would and do. As we know the Home Clans are rebuilding...WoRS....we know both groups survived.

There is going to be disruption, certainly...but no tech regression and the Clans did not blow themselves back to the stone age. The only Clan that had to seriously destroy its scientist caste were the Coyotes. And they Trialled for more to rebuild.

Weren't entire enclaves destroyed though and others heavily damaged? That's going to effect things like power generation and reading and even survival of memory cores.

Yes they did. We also know that the gutted scientist class was less than the one before the reavings. It can't be anything else when so many experienced and knowledgeable people are killed. That make it much more difficult for them to rebuild. It isn't just read a book push a button and the factory starts cranking out new mechs. You've got to rebuild the factory first which requires a lot of other learning.

All we know about the homeclans is that they hadn't blown themselves back into the stone age at that time. Since then...? If we knew the book we hope for would be out already. :)

[Natasha Kerensky]

A couple things on power plants as useful military targets in the Clan Homeworlds...

One, the nature of Clan settlements — where multiple competing Clans each have their own independent enclaves on a world — probably means that there is no large, integrated power grid or large, centralized power production on most worlds.  Because each enclave can’t trust its neighbors not to declare a Trial of Whatever next month, each enclave likely maintains its own, smaller scale, independent power source(s).  Knocking out the power at Adder Enclave A likely has little or no effect on Cobra Enclave C down the road.  (Heck, there may not even be a road connecting the two, forget power lines and transformers.)

Two, unless your enclave is running a really big, power hungry industrial process, there may not even be a large power plant within your enclave.  Rather, each block or building may have its own small-scale fusion source, not dissimilar to the small-scale fusion engines found in all kinds of mechs, combat vehicles, support vehicles, and transportation (or the real-world small-scale fission plants being bandied about today).  If you churn out thousands of small fusion power sources with weights measured in the single tons for civilian transport and military vehicles anyway, it makes no sense to build an enormous, one-off, multi-thousand ton fusion plant and all the associated power distribution for an enclave’s stationary power needs.  Just churn out more of those small fusion power sources and hook one up to each new building or block.  This means that even within an enclave, there may be no central power plant to be targeted.  If you want to take out the power to the enclave, you may have to level each building or block and it’s associated small fusion power source.

That’s my head canon, anyway.

[Talen5000]

Weren't entire enclaves destroyed though and others heavily damaged? That's going to effect things like power generation and reading and even survival of memory cores.

Locally - maybe. If batteries didn't exist and if there were not other enclaves that didn't get destroyed or targetted/.

Yes they did. We also know that the gutted scientist class was less than the one before the reavings. It can't be anything else when so many experienced and knowledgeable people are killed.

Lesser is not the same as eradicated, or damaged to the point that rebuilding is impossible.
There is no sign or evidence the situation in the homeworlds ever got that bad and since we know scientists did survive and that the home Clans are rebuilding, every reason to suggest that a regression did not happen.

That make it much more difficult for them to rebuild. It isn't just read a book push a button and the factory starts cranking out new mechs. You've got to rebuild the factory first which requires a lot of other learning.

And there is NOTHING to suggest that learning was eradicated from the homeworlds. You can surmise, but the evidence we have tells us that if the Clans are rebuilding, they must have some one capable of rebuilding.

The scientists caste was reduced, but given the emphasis they put on the recording of knowledge, the idea that entire areas of knowledge was wiped out is ridiculous. You had large numbers wiped out, but many also survived..including the senior scientists of the remaining Clans AND the scientists they took as isorla.

[truetanker]

Well I know according to WoR and Sup., that CSL has been trialing for and winning whole units to it's cause. Also I further know we have one of the few remaining Naval slips left in known clan space. Our aero factories produce a lot of spares, it's the lack of ground forces that are hurting us. With only two Galaxies to defend several planets. Time will tell...

TT

[RifleMech]

A couple things on power plants as useful military targets in the Clan Homeworlds...

One, the nature of Clan settlements — where multiple competing Clans each have their own independent enclaves on a world — probably means that there is no large, integrated power grid or large, centralized power production on most worlds.  Because each enclave can’t trust its neighbors not to declare a Trial of Whatever next month, each enclave likely maintains its own, smaller scale, independent power source(s).  Knocking out the power at Adder Enclave A likely has little or no effect on Cobra Enclave C down the road.  (Heck, there may not even be a road connecting the two, forget power lines and transformers.)

Two, unless your enclave is running a really big, power hungry industrial process, there may not even be a large power plant within your enclave.  Rather, each block or building may have its own small-scale fusion source, not dissimilar to the small-scale fusion engines found in all kinds of mechs, combat vehicles, support vehicles, and transportation (or the real-world small-scale fission plants being bandied about today).  If you churn out thousands of small fusion power sources with weights measured in the single tons for civilian transport and military vehicles anyway, it makes no sense to build an enormous, one-off, multi-thousand ton fusion plant and all the associated power distribution for an enclave’s stationary power needs.  Just churn out more of those small fusion power sources and hook one up to each new building or block.  This means that even within an enclave, there may be no central power plant to be targeted.  If you want to take out the power to the enclave, you may have to level each building or block and it’s associated small fusion power source.

That’s my head canon, anyway.

Aren't the Clans resource poor? That seems like a lot of resources.

Locally - maybe. If batteries didn't exist and if there were not other enclaves that didn't get destroyed or targetted/.

Batteries are not going to power a memory core.

Lesser is not the same as eradicated, or damaged to the point that rebuilding is impossible.
There is no sign or evidence the situation in the homeworlds ever got that bad and since we know scientists did survive and that the home Clans are rebuilding, every reason to suggest that a regression did not happen.

Yes Scientists survived but we also know that the rebuilding was hampered by the loss of so many scientists. That means they lost a lot of knowledge and that the survivors had to learn more. A metallurgist isn't necessarily going to understand genetics. A young scientist isn't going to know the tricks an experienced scientist might. An old scientist may not have the energy and stamina a younger scientist might, and so on.

And there is NOTHING to suggest that learning was eradicated from the homeworlds. You can surmise, but the evidence we have tells us that if the Clans are rebuilding, they must have some one capable of rebuilding.

I never said learning was eradicated. However when you eliminated the experienced teachers learning suffers. It's like a basic math teacher having to teach algebra. And again the rebuilding was hampered by the loss of much of the scientist caste.

The scientists caste was reduced, but given the emphasis they put on the recording of knowledge, the idea that entire areas of knowledge was wiped out is ridiculous. You had large numbers wiped out, but many also survived..including the senior scientists of the remaining Clans AND the scientists they took as isorla.

Considering entire enclaves were destroyed it shouldn't be unbelievable that knowledge was destroyed also. Especially considering how secretive the scientists were. There's no way of knowing what projects were lost. And scientists taken from others helps the one clan and hampers the other.

[Talen5000]

Batteries are not going to power a memory core.

Why not?

Yes Scientists survived but we also know that the rebuilding was hampered by the loss of so many scientists. That means they lost a lot of knowledge

Or that they had too few scientists for the tasks available. The Clans ARE rebuilding, they ARE recovering, and even if scientific experience was lost, the surviving Clans (mostly) retained their existing scientist caste AND Absorbed the remaining scientists castes of other Clans. What you have is not a situation where knowledge was lost, but where the scientific resources of four or five Clans are trying to support the scientific needs of fifteen while also diverting some of those resources into training others to take up the slack.

and that the survivors had to learn more. A metallurgist isn't necessarily going to understand genetics. A young scientist isn't going to know the tricks an experienced scientist might. An old scientist may not have the energy and stamina a younger scientist might, and so on.

All of which is irrelevant. The problem with the homeworld Clans does not appear to be a loss of knowledge or even, to a large degree, a loss of experience. It is a lack of numbers.

[Natasha Kerensky]

Aren't the Clans resource poor?

The Clans don’t appear to be poor in fusion engines.  Even their lightest combat vehicle, the lowly Shamash, built by the poorest Clan, the Blood Spirits, employs a 60-rated fusion engine.

That seems like a lot of resources.

It depends on where the economy of scale lies.

If you already have lots of production lines for various small fusion engines — as the Clans appear to— it’s almost certainly cheaper to just churn out more copies of those small power plants for stationary use rather than build a big, one-off power plant and all the  associated power distribution infrastructure.

If you have no existing small fusion engine production lines, then it may be cheaper to build one, very large fusion powerplant and all the associated power transmission equipment rather than create a production line for smaller fusion engines from scratch.  But that’s not the situation with the Clans.

Yes Scientists survived but we also know that the rebuilding was hampered by the loss of so many scientists. That means they lost a lot of knowledge and that the survivors had to learn more.

Maybe.  Like with the power infrastructure, there should be a lot of independent duplication across the Clans when it comes to technical knowledge.  Anytime one Clan makes an advancement (new phenotype, weapon, design, etc.) that knowledge quickly spreads to the other Clans through trials, trade, or isorla.  The only knowledge that could be permanently lost is knowledge possessed by only one or a few Clans, and there doesn’t appear to be much of that kind of knowledge at all.  Yes, the Blood Spirits, Fire Mandrills, and Steel Vipers lost the knowledge to produce ER Pulse Lasers because they went extinct.  But the Cloud Cobras, Coyotes, and Star Adders didn’t.  That knowledge still resides with those Clans.

This discussion really comes down to what degree Society machinations and Warrior Caste inattention was holding back Scientist Caste progress prior to the Wars of Reaving.  To a degree, it doesn’t matter how many smart, knowledgeable experts you have at your disposal if the bulk of their work is being diverted by a cabal (like the Society) or ignored by their customers/leadership (Warrior Caste).

The Wars of Reaving certainly shrank the the Scientist Caste in the Homeworlds and may have resulted in the loss of certain, limited knowledge bases that the surviving four Clans never had access to.  But it may not matter after the Wars of Reaving because the research output of the remaining Scientist Caste is now being fully directed towards and utilized by those four surviving Clans.  Who knows what technical knowledge the Homeworlds Clans are capable of recovering or advancing with the Warrior Caste finally paying attention and no secret cabal keeping the best research for itself.

[Jellico]

Or the scientist caste is being closely monitored for political reliability and only allowed to research acceptable subjects in line with accepted political ideology.

[Natasha Kerensky]

Or the scientist caste is being closely monitored for political reliability and only allowed to research acceptable subjects in line with accepted political ideology.

Sure, no more research on Feralize.  But also no more dumbing down or hiding advances like iATMs.  There’s potential in that.

[Jellico]

I don't think that the Warriors are qualified to make those decisions. You could hand one a screwdriver and they would want you to make it a better hammer.

As a society the Clans aren't set up to handle speculative research. They are too focused on immediate gains with a focus on the military. It is telling in all the advances listed in the various Manuals the only civilian items are "asteroid mining" and advanced wheat. You don't have to be a military genius to work out the military benefits of those but those types of developments seem rare.

[Sartris]

advanced wheat.

it grows almost twice as tall, has twice the standard yield, and produces a third of the chaff

[Natasha Kerensky]

I don't think that the Warriors are qualified to make those decisions.

Sure they are.  Military brass inform directions in research, set requirements, and decide downselects all the time in real-world R&D.  They’re the customer.  You really can’t develop new weapons technologies and systems without them.

You could hand one a screwdriver and they would want you to make it a better hammer.

This is stereotyped nonsense about military types.  You can’t be a knuckle-dragging idiot with no understanding of the science and engineering behind a tank or fighter and still expect to lead a tank platoon or pilot a fighter.  This would be even more true with the even more advanced and sophisticated weapons platforms in the BTU.  Just because that Elemental can beat us to a pulp without breaking a sweat doesn’t mean he lacks a substantial education in and intimate understanding of how the myomers in his battlesuits work and has no ideas for how those myomers could be improved.

It is telling in all the advances listed in the various Manuals the only civilian items are "asteroid mining" and advanced wheat.

That observation indicates only three, very limited things:

1) The writer for the Ghost Bear entry was the only one to think of mentioning civvie tech, or

2) Mentions of civvie tech in other Clans were edited out of their entries before they went to print, and

3) The game is called “BattleTech” for a reason.  If we wanted to play out mining and agriculture production, we’d be breaking out Settlers of Catan, not a Clan sourcebook.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

[Maingunnery]

Sure they are.  Military brass inform directions in research, set requirements, and decide downselects all the time in real-world R&D.  They’re the customer.  You really can’t develop new weapons technologies and systems without them.

And so the Clans didn't for a long time. They were satisfied with the technology that they had and made the scientists focus on the eugenics (for making better warriors).

[Gaiiten]

It depends what "Great Game" the Home Clans will want to play in the future.

Given the Star Adders long-term thinking and strategic planning the Home Clans might give the scientist caste a far broader field to research and new technologies and theories to develop.

Furthermore, given the latest hints I have got the impression that the civil castes of all Home Clans have cooperated more and more after the WoR.

[Southern Coyote]

After the Wars of Reaving there has been no information on what is happening with the homeworld clans.  I know Battletech is and always has been predominantly a story about the Inner sphere but does anyone think there is enough interest for either a second clan invasion after ilclan or a sourcebook on "here what's been happening with the homeworld clans since 3076?  I mean there is roughly 75 years of potential growth, destruction, self-annihilation for them from the last we heard of them to the current timeline.

I know there hasn't been any official word on the matter but common fan theories, personal speculations?

I think this biggest indicator will be if the HW Clans gain any new fans in the next few years.  This game has been around forever, and there are a lot of dedicated fans.  The new box sets and kickstarter will attract new people who will become fans of various and bring back old players (like me!). 

But at the end of the day, what product is going to sell?  I feel like unless the HW Clans get a lot of new fans and interest, that any information of them will constantly be dropped in favor of other more popular factions.  I am a BIG HW clan fan, especially the Coyotes.  I love the WoR and what happened in the HW.  I always felt the HW Clans have more flavor and personality than the IS Clans.  But besides a few, very loyal diehard fans, the IS Clans seem to have more of a following.  And that is your market when you're making a product. 

[Ursus Maior]

Since I read into the HWC, I felt the Coyotes were completely underrepresented for their potential. In fact, that's true for many HWC, most notably including Blood Spirits, Goliath Scorpions, and  Steel Vipers. But Coyote have always felt to me as underwritten for what they were supposed to be able to do.

[Southern Coyote]

Since I read into the HWC, I felt the Coyotes were completely underrepresented for their potential. In fact, that's true for many HWC, most notably including Blood Spirits, Goliath Scorpions, and  Steel Vipers. But Coyote have always felt to me as underwritten for what they were supposed to be able to do.

I agree 100%.  But I feel like all of the HWC could have used a more fleshing out.  However, there are limits to what the writers can do. 

[Wotan]

Some novels covering the conflicts in the homeworlds would have changed that.

[Stormlion1]

Since I read into the HWC, I felt the Coyotes were completely underrepresented for their potential. In fact, that's true for many HWC, most notably including Blood Spirits, Goliath Scorpions, and  Steel Vipers. But Coyote have always felt to me as underwritten for what they were supposed to be able to do.

Coyotes were almost the Red Headed Second Cousin of the Wolves. The WoR gave a great opportunity for a time gap to give the two some space and allow them to create a new 'face' for themselves. What I want to see though is the Adders forced to split up into two or three clans due to the other Clan's in the Homewords getting angry at the sheer fact that they are so overpowering in comparison. After the WoR the Star Adders could probably have absorbed the remaining Clans after the Blood Spirits easily enough.

[Ursus Maior]

I agree 100%.  But I feel like all of the HWC could have used a more fleshing out.  However, there are limits to what the writers can do.

It was hinted at by CGL in their second AMA that the HWC might have a comeback of some sorts.

[SteveRestless]

That's not what i got out of that.

I got more of an either (A) they have something further planned and can't discuss it without spoiling things or (B) the focus is off of them and they aren't discussing it.

the only real certain thing I got from it was, they aren't discussing them.

[dgorsman]

I prefer thinking about Sunday night option c:
The region is infested with interdimensional space squid, and they're working out how to adapt the rules for harpoon SRMs to capital scale missiles.

[RifleMech]

I prefer thinking about Sunday night option c:
The region is infested with interdimensional space squid, and they're working out how to adapt the rules for harpoon SRMs to capital scale missiles.

That's the easy part. The hard part is coming up with a good recipe for them.

[truetanker]

Either way, Stone Lions or Hell Horses, both get my vote!

I'd prefer some scenarios that can be used by any HWC / ISC as a basis for Trials. Say some bunker of an opposing unit ( clan or WoB ) that has survived that's needed to be squashed before they become a problem too big again.

Smoked Kitties
Wolverines!
Green Ghost?!
rival clan with a knack of revenge? Society...  >:D

You get the idea... people that are bad that needs to be taken out. Just a Scenario or Two that'll evolve player's unit and X. ( Where X is the enemy. )

Just that... But officially released, not a random fan-based one.

TT

[DOC_Agren]

So yep in the reaving you will have lost some "Science Projects" because well it was 1 group doing the research whose compound has been completely taken out.  Now if they had backup offsite maybe you could regain the info, but not the tech if it was not in widespread use.

I would like to see the WHC allow their new "breed" sciencist to have the freedom to explore tech ideas, think like under the Nazi in Germany sciencist could research in many different paths that before were "too radical or out there"

I do hope they do make a showing, 1 of the Clans I keep wanting to connect to GS are still part of them.  The other being the GB/RD

[Jellico]

You know. Every time I pass this thread I keep thinking of the Angels (  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Angels_(Australian_band )

"Am I ever gonna see the Clans again???"  O:-)

[Lboydmsw]

I remember that at one point there were pictures released (leaked?) of brainstormed and tentative plans for the future of the time line and at one point it mentioned a second clan invasion (star adder invasion or something like that). I think the actual canon timeline has already diverged from that which is fine. I'm really enjoying what is going on right now 3145+

I think it would be interesting to see the HWCs again though.  I know they stated in their AMA that they aren't talking about it right now.  I hope that doesn't rule out some subtle hints here and there in new material. Maybe get to see a hint of something before too long though.  Even some info from the Escorpión Imperio would be full of yummy details and hints about what the HWC have been up to (at least to some degree).

I think a wholesale 100% HWC touman assault would be amazing.  The aggressor causes slowly spreads across the majority of clan warriors and they just up and lunch everything they have at the IS after finding out (through spies or info gained from the Escorpión Imperio in someway during attacks against them) that there is an "ilclan". I think it would be more interesting if when they came swinging in their advantages from the first invasion were non-existent.  In other words, they weren't coming in with super advanced technology that is grossly superior to what exists in the IS.  Different, yes but not nearly so overshadowing to what the IS has to offer (including IS clan tech).

[NutritiousSlop]

We've had the Genecaste teased since Interstellar Players 1.  I could see an expansion in the Home Clans, coupled with some form of Genecaste-type manipulations in the warrior DNA because it's cheaper resource-wise to breed a soldier with integrated chitinous armor than it is to mine minerals and manufacture armor.  Perhaps we'd see bio-mechanical infantry and battle armor, building off rules we've already had for VDNIs.  I know aliens have been teased and hinted at before, but we've got pieces and parts lying out there now. 

The Home Clans will definitely be back in some way, shape, or form.  The upcoming ilClan sourcebook might just be them abandoning the Kerensky Cluster and the Homeworlds and going for broke with one last stab at taking Terra while the only things left on Strana Mechty are wrecked OmniMechs and statues of legs saying "look upon my works, ye mighty, and tremble." 

[Gaiiten]

I still favour the idea of Home Clans who are like huge space-borne nomads with hightech.

[Taber_Evans]

I know there hasn't been any official word on the matter but common fan theories, personal speculations?


1- Its a write off\distraction that they simply dont want to take the time for.
2- Its a potential future plot locked up under NADA.
3- Simply forget\ignore them as immaterial data and hope the fans do likewise.  If necessary retcon the issue.  Not unlike others over 30 years. 

If they ever do show back up I can sit back with a 24X and some 7mm pills again.  Amongst other fun stuff.   Almost as much fun as killing C*\wobbies  ;).

[Phocion]

Still, at the end of Fortress Republic, an unknown faction appeared over Terra to a collective "What the?!!!", so that could be anything from a Home Clan Coalition fleet to a Giant Space Hamster.

+1 to giant space hamster

[Ruger]

+1 to giant space hamster

Only if it’s a miniature one and named “Boo”.

 :D

Ruger

[truetanker]

What about a reverse invasion by the Spirit Cats or some other IS clan invading the Homeworlds?

Taking back what was lost?

TT

[NutritiousSlop]

What about a reverse invasion by the Spirit Cats or some other IS clan invading the Homeworlds?

Taking back what was lost?

TT

From what I'm gathering, the IS clans in the Dark Ages aren't that well-resourced.  It'd be difficult for them to mount that large of an invasion.  But I could definitely see the Spirit Cats or even the Sea Foxes making their way back there for their own reasons. 

[Sjhernan3060]

From what I'm gathering, the IS clans in the Dark Ages aren't that well-resourced.  It'd be difficult for them to mount that large of an invasion.  But I could definitely see the Spirit Cats or even the Sea Foxes making their way back there for their own reasons.

Post DA do the sea foxes have any eyes and ears in the homeworlds?

[rebs]

Their last intelligence assets died off in the 3090's in the Imperio.  At least according to ISP 3. 

[truetanker]

Question for the masses...

Do you think the DRUM program is still working?

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/QR_243_(Satellite)

While they are officially offline... per CGL, nothing is currently " a solid " as they say.

Also, how many Conestoga Payload Satellites are out there? After all, it's a Star League-era Cassion...

TT

[dgorsman]

There's two networks out there: the Clan homeworlds link using QR 243, and ComStar's DRUM system (no specific designs noted).  The forces sent out after the Burrocks decimated the Clan system.  There isn't much mention of the status of the DRUM system.  Portions around Columbus were destroyed by WoB forces, and others have no doubt stopped functioning without maintenance, so even with its distributed nature it's going to be heavily fragmented.