Author Topic: CGB: Build a (Ghost) Bear project  (Read 3043 times)

Phocion

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CGB: Build a (Ghost) Bear project
« on: 15 October 2019, 04:30:24 »
Hi All

So my next goal is to expand my Clan Ghost Bear force from what I have already.  I have a small budget to throw at getting a few extra mechs and I am most notably lacking fluffy GB designs, such as Vultures and Fire Moths (Heresy, I know!).  Wanted to get some input from the wisest and beariest amongst you on how to turn this into a fluffier unit.

For starters, I currently have either assembled, painted (or awaiting both  ;D).

Assaults:  Highlander IIC, Mad Cat Mk2, Kodiak

Heavies:  Hellfire, Timber Wolf, Nova Cat

Mediums:  Grendel,  Dragonfly, Nova H, Arctic Wolf, Clint IIC

Lights: Mist Lynx, Fire Falcon, Cougar, Cougar

BA Infantry:  10 points (bases) of elementals

Not all of these are particularly GB fluffy, I just picked up what I thought was cool or would look good in GB colors over the years. 

For building this up, I had in mind something post-Jihad/early Rasalhague Dominion, which would take into account the need (desperation), to rebuild losses and give scope for mixing in the classic GB omnis with trade, salvage and isorla from the recent conflicts, as well as some of the older second line and newer battlemech/omni designs which are particularly fluffy for the Bears (I do like the Grizzly).  Don’t want to go full Rasalhague Dominion and mix in IS mechs.  I have a separate, FRR/RD fluffed, IS mercenary force anyway.

Having read a few of the threads on the forums I was thinking of a light/medium Supernova binary or trinary, with a supporting force of heavies and assaults.  Fluff wise, I already have a few mechs painted in Alpha Galaxy scheme, so was thinking of maybe the 50th Striker Cluster or 1st Rasalhague Bears, and I can get the decals from Fighting Piranha.

So here's my provisional thoughts

Supernova Binary

Light Star:  Grendel, Dragonfly, Fire Moth, Fire Moth, Fire Moth
Elementals:  5x Points

Light Star: Nova H, Cougar, Cougar, Mist Lynx, Fire Falcon
Elementals:  5x Points

Heavy Trinary

Command Star:  Kodiak 2, Kodiak, Mad Cat 2, Highlander IIC, Arcas

Heavy (second line) Star:  Hellfire, Grizzly, Grizzly, Clint IIC, Arctic Wolf

Fire Support Star:  Timber Wolf, Vulture III, Vulture, Nova Cat, Karhu

I tried to stick to pure stars of either omnis or battlemechs, as that seemed to make a bit more logistical sense and I couldn’t find anything in the fluff that says the Bears used mixed tech stars, unless, post Jihad they were that desperate.  On that note I could turn the Supernova into a trinary by getting another pack of elementals and moving the Fire Support Star (all omnis) into the supernova.  This would group the omnis into the Supernova, with the supporting, second-line forces being battlemechs. 

What are people's thoughts/recommendations?  How could I improve this?

Thanks

Foxx Ital

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Re: CGB: Build a (Ghost) Bear project
« Reply #1 on: 15 October 2019, 07:18:49 »
Boo the kodiak2, replace it with a kingfisher!!
Clan Ghost Bear:  We may not like you, but you're not bothering us, so you may exist.
 If your BA tactics can't be described as shenanigans, you're probably doing it wrong. ^-^ -Weirdo
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Phocion

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Re: CGB: Build a (Ghost) Bear project
« Reply #2 on: 15 October 2019, 11:21:27 »
I kind of like the idea of the KF, but the K2 is fluffed as a command mech, and a homegrown design of the period.  Plus the mini is a bit better - the old KF mini is a bit meh! :(. The KF is also an omni, and Id have to fit it in the command star as a 1-1 swap, which brings up the mixed tech star issue.   Plus the stock K2 has a lot more range, which the kingfisher lacks, so it wouldnt really bring anything to the fire support star either - bar variants, which I would have to kitbash.   

Sell me on the KF though.  I am not against it.  I can always make a few changes :)

Foxx Ital

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Re: CGB: Build a (Ghost) Bear project
« Reply #3 on: 15 October 2019, 21:02:20 »
I kind of like the idea of the KF, but the K2 is fluffed as a command mech, and a homegrown design of the period.  Plus the mini is a bit better - the old KF mini is a bit meh! :(. The KF is also an omni, and Id have to fit it in the command star as a 1-1 swap, which brings up the mixed tech star issue.   Plus the stock K2 has a lot more range, which the kingfisher lacks, so it wouldnt really bring anything to the fire support star either - bar variants, which I would have to kitbash.   

Sell me on the KF though.  I am not against it.  I can always make a few changes :)

 I'm not a fan of the kodiak 2, find the design meh compared to the regular kodiak. The kingfisher is a awesome bear mech that's also a zombie thanks to the standard engine. It's omni so you can choose a loadout with more long range weaponry.
 If you're wanting to keep the k2, then swap out the highlander iic!!
Clan Ghost Bear:  We may not like you, but you're not bothering us, so you may exist.
 If your BA tactics can't be described as shenanigans, you're probably doing it wrong. ^-^ -Weirdo
 <Kojak> Yeah, there's definitely a learning curve with BA, But once you learn how to use 'em well they're addictive,heck, just look at what happened to Foxx ;-)
<Steve_Restless> its YOU who I shouldn't underestimate. I could give you a broom handle and I'd find you sitting on top of the enemy stormcrow, smug surat grin on your face

Colt Ward

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Re: CGB: Build a (Ghost) Bear project
« Reply #4 on: 16 October 2019, 12:20:07 »
First off, did you get in on the Kickstarter?  Its going to give you the fluffy Bear mechs at a pretty good price point.

Second, I think your Cougars are slowing down your speedsters too much . . . they should be with meds or 5/8 heavies.  Or could even be command mechs for standard mech stars.  The other thing is, I think you should put Elementals with your 5/8 heavies- they are a force multiplier and you get more benefit than with the lighter machines IMO.  If you want the 1st Rasalhague Bears, keep in mind that they do field some IS designs as they are a repository for that level of equipment.
Colt Ward
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"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: CGB: Build a (Ghost) Bear project
« Reply #5 on: 16 October 2019, 13:24:45 »
I kind of like the idea of the KF, but the K2 is fluffed as a command mech, and a homegrown design of the period.  Plus the mini is a bit better - the old KF mini is a bit meh! :(. The KF is also an omni, and Id have to fit it in the command star as a 1-1 swap, which brings up the mixed tech star issue.   Plus the stock K2 has a lot more range, which the kingfisher lacks, so it wouldnt really bring anything to the fire support star either - bar variants, which I would have to kitbash.   

Sell me on the KF though.  I am not against it.  I can always make a few changes :)

You're actually talking about the Kodiak II.  The Kodiak 2 is a variant of the original Kodiak that dumps some of the guns for jump jets, the Kodiak II is a different chassis that has a substantially different warload.
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truetanker

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Re: CGB: Build a (Ghost) Bear project
« Reply #6 on: 16 October 2019, 13:38:41 »
The Timby would be better as a S model and placed with the Command Star, I'd swap for either the Kodiaks...

Jumpjets and all.

TT
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Colt Ward

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Re: CGB: Build a (Ghost) Bear project
« Reply #7 on: 16 October 2019, 14:03:57 »
Supernova Trinary
Command Striker Nova
Timber Wolf, Mad Dog, Mad Dog III, Gargoyle (KS), Hellbringer (KS)
5 Elementals

Bravo Striker Star
Cougar, Nova, Cougar, Karhu, Mod Dog (KS)- if no Grendel

Rogue Nova
Viper, Mist Lynx, Fire Falcon, Fire Moth or Ice Ferret (KS), Viper (KS)- if no Grendel
5 Elementals


Grendel can go in either the 2nd or 3rd star, if you do not put it in the 3rd add another Fire Moth.


Line Trinary
Assault Star
Nova Cat (Star Captain ride), Highlander IIC, Mad Cat Mk II, Clint IIC

Battle Star
Hellfire, Grizzly, Arctic Wolf

Kodiak, depends if you have the I or II since the I does have a jumping version- the 3 IIRC? it could be placed in either star but the Assault Star all jump.

The KS has some solid Ghost Bear mechs-
Execution (Invasion Box)
Mad Dog (Heavy Striker)
Viper (Heavy Striker)- looks really good IMO
Fire Moth (Fire)
Kodiak (Ad Hoc)
Elemental (Elemental Star)
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Phocion

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Re: CGB: Build a (Ghost) Bear project
« Reply #8 on: 16 October 2019, 16:51:25 »
First off, did you get in on the Kickstarter?  Its going to give you the fluffy Bear mechs at a pretty good price point.

Second, I think your Cougars are slowing down your speedsters too much . . . they should be with meds or 5/8 heavies.  Or could even be command mechs for standard mech stars.  The other thing is, I think you should put Elementals with your 5/8 heavies- they are a force multiplier and you get more benefit than with the lighter machines IMO.  If you want the 1st Rasalhague Bears, keep in mind that they do field some IS designs as they are a repository for that level of equipment.

Yes, I did.  One of the lots of free stuff levels, cant remember the name.  I am going to be painting the plastics up as a separate project, as they have a separate look/aesthetic to the metals and are quite different sizes when placed next to each other.  This is just to finish off the IWM collection I have before my plasticrack arrives, so I can keep it as a themed force.  Will probably used a different color scheme etc. for the plastics.

Agree on the Cougars.  I tried to group the omnis together as I couldnt find any fluff to say that mixed tech (omni/battlemechs) in a star was a thing  the only guidelines I could find was grouping for capability.  I figured Omnis were specific enough a type of capability to fall in that bracket.  The guidelines for star composition I could find are a little restrictive.  There's not really a star described which groups heavies and lights with no mediums.  I think the closest I could find in the fluff was 2 lights, 2 meds, and 1 heavy.  If you know any other/better sources please point me to them.  It would make star composition with what I have easier.  On the other hand, I did want to squeeze a huntsman in there, just because I like the mini.  So maybe theres a way to restructure to include that.

Phocion

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Re: CGB: Build a (Ghost) Bear project
« Reply #9 on: 16 October 2019, 17:00:33 »
You're actually talking about the Kodiak II.  The Kodiak 2 is a variant of the original Kodiak that dumps some of the guns for jump jets, the Kodiak II is a different chassis that has a substantially different warload.

Er.. yes.  Good point, well presented :) Sorry for the confusion. 

I am referring to the Kodiak II, the follow on design for the GB touman by Alshain Weapons in the 3090s according to Sarna.  The one with 2x LRM20s and 8x CERSL in the fists, plus an LRM10 and ERPPC. I thought it was a good design the more I looked at it.  It looks lackluster on paper, but when you consider its throwing 50 tubes (probably averaging 30+ hitting) and a PPC downrange each turn, before considering the laser fists, I figured it was a good counterpart to the original Kody and a figurehead/command mech.

Colt Ward

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Re: CGB: Build a (Ghost) Bear project
« Reply #10 on: 16 October 2019, 17:02:09 »
You may be talking about the Alpha Strike lance/star roles though I am not familiar with them.

Sometimes a Omni will be a Star Captain, Star Commander, Bloodnamed or Ristar ride for a secondline formation- or for a rich Clan like the Bears some of their secondline forces will mix Omnis & standards. 
Colt Ward
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"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Phocion

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Re: CGB: Build a (Ghost) Bear project
« Reply #11 on: 16 October 2019, 17:16:14 »
You may be talking about the Alpha Strike lance/star roles though I am not familiar with them.

Sometimes a Omni will be a Star Captain, Star Commander, Bloodnamed or Ristar ride for a secondline formation- or for a rich Clan like the Bears some of their secondline forces will mix Omnis & standards. 

No, just probably misapplied names.  Wasnt naming them with a book in front of me, and I do find some of the star 'types' and compositions counterintuitive to their functions and names occasionally.

Ok, so mixed tech seems to be permissible, given the replies here.  I will go and rejig the stars with that in mind.  I know I can go with the Bob Ross doctrine and just do my own thing, but I kinda like the fluff for GBs.

Thanks for all the help everyone.  Will repost the rethunk orgs here.

Phocion

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Re: CGB: Build a (Ghost) Bear project
« Reply #12 on: 17 October 2019, 05:16:12 »
Thanks again everyone, for all the suggestions, they got me thinking.  After my brain stopped hurting, I decided that applying a little of the Bob Ross doctrine and giving myself some latitude with star weight composition would be a pardonable offense, given the planned timeframe and the need to maintain effectiveness in the face of losses.

I went with some of the given star build suggestions as they make a lot of sense, but I am a bit meh about mixing the old metal and new plastics given the design and size differences so far.  That’s just my own perversion and I reserve the right to be proven wrong when the new Clan stuff arrives.  Also, though I liked your star build, Colt, I just cant bring myself to add the metal Gargoyle or Executioner minis.  I consider myself too honorable a warrior to resort to underhanded spheroid tricks, such as exposing my opponents to psychotropic amounts of fugly ;D.  I am hoping for big things from the redesigns though.

I take the point about the 1st RBs being a repository for IS tech, but I cant find anything to say if the FRR/Kungsarme personnel absorbed into the 1st RBs were given clan tech or kept their IS machines.  I suppose it could go either way, with the best of them being given older clan mechs or even omnis.  So I could make this a Clan tech formation within the 1st RBs, with the IS mechs being used in other 1st RBs clusters, or other binaries within this cluster – this force is too light for a full cluster IMHO.  OTOH the 50th were eventually disbanded after the jihad, though theres no specific date for disbandment on Sarna.  So I would have to keep this formation as no later than mid-3080s if I wanted to stick with the 50th, which would exclude some later designs like the Vulture III and Kodiak II anyway.  So, for now, I dropped those two, though I like the designs.

So after mixing tech within the lances I ended up swapping out for some lighter designs I like and evening out the tonnage a little, which helps keep the BV down and saves some pennies.  I squeezed a Huntsman in because I like it, and the Arctic Wolf II (either Prime or B config) is a fast medium striker omni which just about fits in with the timeframe if I decide to stick with the 50th as a formation.  Kit Fox is another design I like so threw that in as well.  Theres still flexibility to swap these out for more effective/fluffier choices. 

Line Binary

Heavy Star:  Kodiak, Nova Cat, Hellfire, Arctic Wolf, Nova H

Heavy Battle Star:  Mad Cat Mk2, Highlander IIC, Arcas, Grizzly, Clint IIC

Supernova Trinary

Comand Nova:  Timber Wolf, Vulture, Huntsman, Cougar, Cougar,
Elemental Star

Alpha Striker Nova:  Karhu, Grendel, Arctic Wolf II, Mist Lynx, Kit Fox
Elemental Star

Beta Light Striker Nova:  Dragonfly, Fire Falcon, Fire Moth, Fire Moth, Fire Moth
Elemental Star

It’s a lighter, faster, and more flexible formation, with more Elementals to compensate the loss of tonnage.  The line binary stars work to engage and suppress the enemy as the supernova trinary closes for the kill.  The heavy battle star is entirely jump-capable and weighted towards poking holes at range, whilst the heavy star is slightly faster and more effective closer in.  The trinary command nova also acts as fire support for the faster striker novas.  Alpha striker nova (AKA ‘best of whats left’) is a bit of a mixed bag, slower than Beta, but entirely jump-capable (using Kit Fox S) and the Karhu and Kit Fox compensate for their lower speeds with decent ranged firepower.  It should hold its own as a Striker Star.  Beta are the fast movers and are grouped for speed. 

What say you all?  Is this any better, worse, or just as bad as the first try?  :)
« Last Edit: 17 October 2019, 07:56:59 by Phocion »

Foxx Ital

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Re: CGB: Build a (Ghost) Bear project
« Reply #13 on: 17 October 2019, 08:18:04 »
Honestly as long as you have fun that's all that matters. If you feel somethings not clicking or you wanna go another route, you can always switch it up. Looks fine to me.
Clan Ghost Bear:  We may not like you, but you're not bothering us, so you may exist.
 If your BA tactics can't be described as shenanigans, you're probably doing it wrong. ^-^ -Weirdo
 <Kojak> Yeah, there's definitely a learning curve with BA, But once you learn how to use 'em well they're addictive,heck, just look at what happened to Foxx ;-)
<Steve_Restless> its YOU who I shouldn't underestimate. I could give you a broom handle and I'd find you sitting on top of the enemy stormcrow, smug surat grin on your face

Colt Ward

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Re: CGB: Build a (Ghost) Bear project
« Reply #14 on: 17 October 2019, 09:48:49 »
I take the point about the 1st RBs being a repository for IS tech, but I cant find anything to say if the FRR/Kungsarme personnel absorbed into the 1st RBs were given clan tech or kept their IS machines.  I suppose it could go either way, with the best of them being given older clan mechs or even omnis.  So I could make this a Clan tech formation within the 1st RBs, with the IS mechs being used in other 1st RBs clusters, or other binaries within this cluster – this force is too light for a full cluster IMHO.  OTOH the 50th were eventually disbanded after the jihad, though theres no specific date for disbandment on Sarna.  So I would have to keep this formation as no later than mid-3080s if I wanted to stick with the 50th, which would exclude some later designs like the Vulture III and Kodiak II anyway.  So, for now, I dropped those two, though I like the designs.

Honestly, you have to look for the first mention in fiction of the 1st Rasalhague Bears IIRC.  They raid some DC world defended by a Northwind Highlander's detachment, who manage to bring down a dropship- I want to say it was a Broadsword (it was).  Story was Isolation's Weight set on Kiamba in '67.  The star is positively identified as part of the 1st Rasalhague Bears by the POV character.  The crashed dropship carried was a Timber Wolf, Summoner, Rifleman 6X, Arcas and something else that probably did not make it out of the DS.

It looks solid, though you might switch out the Grendel for one of the Charlie Fire Moths, just to spread that Bear flavor around a bit more and it gives Charlie some more firepower.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Phocion

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Re: CGB: Build a (Ghost) Bear project
« Reply #15 on: 20 October 2019, 11:07:37 »
Thanks.  That story doesnt seem to be available on any links I could find.  I might try to track down a second hand print copy.

Thanks again to everyone for all the feedback.  I will get these last few mechs ordered.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: CGB: Build a (Ghost) Bear project
« Reply #16 on: 20 October 2019, 13:11:09 »
It's available in the first Battlecorp compilation.
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