Bloodhouse politics discussion

[Colt Ward]

Occasionally Bloodhouse politics gets discussed, especially since its not something that seems to be explored too closely.

But for my latest pondering . . .

Nadia Winson was probably a ristar among the Wolves, was taken as abathka shortly after she gained her Bloodname, managed to regain her warrior status and worked her way up to being Khan of the Ghost Bears by at least 3000.  She tried to bring the Great Debate to a close by leading the Crusaders in a vote for the Invasion but was blocked by Khan Ward which caused the Dragoon Compromise.

She should be regarded as a genetic prize for the Winson Bloodhouse, her prowess confirmed not just by a single Clan but by two of the strongest Clans.  Khan of the Ghost Bears for probably over 10 years, she is one of the few Winsons to stand out since the Founder.  It would IMO then be logical for her genetics to be used for sibkos . . . among the Wolves, who are still strongly Warden under the leadership of Kerlin Ward, Cyrilla Ward, and Ulric Kerensky.  So, say a Bloodhouse leader signs off on a sibko from Nadia Winson's genes yet with a change of leadership (probably common) for the Bloodhouse, a staunch Warden takes control and dislikes Nadia's political position to the point of backing off the use of her genes.  The sibkos progress, would any warrior from Nadia's genes be considered a ristar even if the Bloodhouse leader was prejudiced against them b/c of their genes?  If given ristar status, what sort of obstacles could a Bloodhouse leader put in place to 'help' the ristar?

How much of ristar status is the political side of Bloodhouses launching a whisper campaign to increase their image/standing with a promising warrior?  Does a Bloodhouse appear stronger if they are considered to have more ristars?  more ristars out of mixed heritage sibkos?

[Precentor Scorpio]

My opinion,

The Clan comes first, but the Bloodhouse comes in very close second.  (In some cases, to the point that saving the Clan requires putting the Bloodhouse first?)

Politics pervade Clan life and some Clans might allow politics to play a more important role in determining assignments.  I am thinking of the Jade Falcons and Wolves based on the Source books from the 90's.  (Wow, the 90's)

So my opinion:

Since Clan Ghost Bear has Nadia Winson in their clan, then the Ghost Bears have the right to use Nadia's genes.
The Winson Bloodhouse probably has the right to determine who the genes are paired with and preventing their use.  The Bloodhouse could also determine if Nadia's genes are the paternal donor or maternal donor.

(Kerensky genes run through a couple of clans, but none of the Clans up and till 3050 could use the genes in the maternal gene-donor situation.  At some point, I'm sure this has changed.)

But to answer your questions:
I think the original pairings of gene-parents would be the original basis of ristar status.  (Assignment to the "best" academy/sibko is originally planned for this sibko, but a change in house leadership might allow the Bloodhouse Leader to orchestrate a change in training.  Possibly starting or restarting a feud with the other Bloodhouse in the process.  This is probably the most political part of the ristar status.)

Second is the performance of the warrior.  Upon graduation and earning warrior/officer status, the Bloodhouse leader might be able to put the warrior into a Gamma Galaxy unit vs Alpha Galaxy but if the warrior is truly a ristar he/she should still be able to prove his/her worth in this posting.

A ristar status should imply that your genes are superior so the greater number of ristars from your bloodhouse, the more prestige and power your bloodhouse should have. 

However, ristar(s) that never moves up into the upper echelons of Clan Society probably indicates that the ristar(s) status was more luck than genetic.  So,your bloodhouse will suffer in the future once this idea takes hold.

[Colt Ward]

Just b/c you take the warrior does not mean you have the warrior's genes to play with- we do not know if they got that right from the Winsons, all we know is they were not one of the bloodnames singled out in FMWC/CC.  Even after 3050, none of the Clans had the right to maternal use of the Kerensky (either one) genes.

Ristar status is determined AFTER the initial Trial of Position, so which sibko you are assigned would not matter- my point was that which looks better, coming out of a single bloodname sibko (IE, Aiden's sibko was just Prydes) or a mixed bloodname or even phenotype sibko (Vlad, Rana, Evantha & Carew were all in the same sibko).  Sure the initial performance in the Trial of Position can start a warrior on the path to being considered a ristar, but what I suggested was the Bloodhouse starts a whisper campaign in the touman about the warrior being a ristar.

[glitterboy2098]

i would presume that:
A: the wolf sibkos made using Nadia Winson's DNA would have been engineered to turn her giftake into the male source (since the wolves do not have the right to maternal use of that line), or were the result of a very major trial of possession for some sibko rights that came with a bunch of strings.

B: their status as a Ristar would be on their own merits. their heritage might create some obstacles compared to someone who's line was seen as being of higher pedigree [1], but if they can keep up the performance they'll still rise fast. if anything, a ristar coming out of a 'lesser' bloodline and overcoming the lack of personal/political resources will make them that much more impressive.



[1] remember Carew? Clan Wolf pilot. Nygren bloodline. part of a sibko made with Malthus genetics that had been trialed for, but when it came out that genetics they'd obtained were from a "cadet" heritage (presumably a less prestigious or even unblooded individual) which soured the clan on the Nygren-Malthus genetic pairing and which hurt his chances of finding a backer for a bloodname trial position. it took exceptional service in the invasion and the maneuvering of saKhan Phelan Ward to attract him notice. though he was never a Ristar, just a very competent warrior.

[Precentor Scorpio]

I think taking the warrior does allow you to use the genes, subject to the Bloodhouse permission.  I am thinking of the Wolves trying to claim Kael Pershaw.

[wantec]

I think taking the warrior does allow you to use the genes, subject to the Bloodhouse permission.  I am thinking of the Wolves trying to claim Kael Pershaw.

Sorry, but no. The warrior & their genetics are separate items which must be trialed for. See Quinn Kerensky's notable pilot entry under the Summoner in TRO 3050U. And there's many other examples.

In the Clans warriors are treated like their individual Mechs, each one has a value, but almost none are irreplaceable. Genetics are closer in value to a factory and the design specs for those Mechs.



Going back to the original questions, the Wolves own exclusive rights to Nadia's legacy. Depending on how far she advanced within the Wolves before being taken by the Bears would impact her value to the Clan. Her skills overall and her political leanings would influence her use by the Winsons. Its quite possible that her genes weren't used or weren't used much until after the Refusal War.

[Colt Ward]

Sorry, but no. The warrior & their genetics are separate items which must be trialed for. See Quinn Kerensky's notable pilot entry under the Summoner in TRO 3050U. And there's many other examples.

In the Clans warriors are treated like their individual Mechs, each one has a value, but almost none are irreplaceable. Genetics are closer in value to a factory and the design specs for those Mechs.

And it gets more technical . . . only MATERNAL breeding rights allow you to create a sibko that can access the Bloodname.  For example, there is a Bear tank commander in the 3060s- failed MW ToP- who is a cross of the Kerensky (not sure which) genes with Jorgensson, but the Kerensky is paternal.  So the warrior was only eligible for the Jorgensson Bloodname which he won later on, after the Clan figured out how to let him pilot his Athena (?) tank solo into the Trial of Bloodright- b/c the Clan wanted to mix Kerensky genes they got by trade with the Jorgensson bloodlines.

The Wolves had a agreement from the beginning mixing Andrey Kerensky & Dana Kuhfal's genes in a annual sibko with the Coyotes- they had paternal access to the younger Kerensky's genes just like the Wolves had access to Kuhfal's genes paternally.

One thing that would be interesting to learn is which Kerensky the famous ones come from- or after all the decades they are pretty mingled-  for instance, while the Wolves have 43 bloodnames before counting the Widowmakers they took we do not hear of distinctions between either Kerensky or either Winson (or maybe Winson & Cameron . . . ) when it comes to blood chapels or even such repeated names like Mehta which IIRC is split between phenotypes and Clans.