Question on Shattered Fortress

[GermanSumo]

Hi guys,  i hope, i can ask the question here. If not the moderators can just close this thread and i apologize for spoilers.

So... i was lucky enough to have a wife that presented me the Beginner Box, the Game of Armored Combat Box and a copy of Shattered Fortress for my birthday 2 days ago  8) 8) 8) 8) And i did take some time to read into the final year of action before some unknown naval force came knocking on terras door. I read some of the side boxes where Devlin talked with Tucker... and i realized something. When i read about the RAF before, they had about 20 regiments give or take... and now they had a decade and some more to churn out new units/regiments and recruits from "Prefecture 1". Plus their new Fidelis-inspired combined arms forces. The book gives several unit mentions with the RAF units fighting their various deployments and battleplans throughout the year between the downed fortress wall and the arrival of the fleet. But during all this time i felt like Daoshen thinking to myself: Where the eff are the RAF???? I am no expert on the Dark Ages and later troop count... but it looked to me like most of the RAF are not being utilized up to that point? Maybe about 20% or so? For an All-or-Nothing-Situation the Republic  finds itself in this seems pretty restraint.

So my questions are the following: Is my gut feeling about the RAF hiding their strength right? Did anybody count the exact numbers of RAF units mentioned during 3149/3150?

[Colt Ward]

Welcome to the club!

The lack of force building in around 15 years is a bit puzzling since its taking some of the oldest settled worlds.

[GermanSumo]

Welcome to the club!

The lack of force building in around 15 years is a bit puzzling since its taking some of the oldest settled worlds.

yeah... it felt like everybody waited for the wall to go down and the republic coming out with full force and flying fists (or jumping, angry mechs LOL). instead... eery silence, apart from some militias and those new combined arms units.

[Frabby]

Stone borrowed all troops he could spare to Davion for his merry romp through Liao space, a three-pronged offensive to retake New Syrtis.
While at the same time the RotS was literally beset on all sides, what with Liao, Kurita and not one but two Clans racing towards Terra. That's bound to spread the army a bit thin... plus, in BattleTech you can always explain holes in your defenses with a lack of JumpShips to bring troops to where they're actually needed. All the regiments in the Inner Sphere are no good if they're one jump away from where you're getting hammered.

[Colt Ward]

Julian got one elite equipped regiment- the Dawn Guard.  The Dav Auxiliaries were from Davions in Lyran space and more picked up among the Remnant, while 'Republic' leaning troops they were not from inside the Fortress.

Besides, they had 15 years to position the troops- they were launching raids outside the Fortress for intel after all.  The Knights were broken up as a group, sent to be officers in the regiments who would face the on coming waves and share their determination to save the Republic.  Exarch Levin brought in portions of other Prefectures' forces as determined by shipping schedules which means IMO it was determined who could be summoned with their transport at hand . . . and the Republic fleet was summoned inside except for the single corvette.  Fifteen years to set up guerrilla preparations on the expected Enemy Wave 1 worlds to bog down the best units that start the push . . . but worlds were abandoned and no opposition really encountered, or limited as I remember.

Daoshen is right to worry . . . when you expect to face enemy troops and do not, its natural to worry about where they are . . . and what they plan?

Btw, I know we had a theories thread . . . anyone ever suggest it was a Fox flotilla to transport a Republic army for a counteroffensive?

[Arkansas Warrior]

I thought that that was kind of the point.  They were  massing most of their forces in and around Terra, basically allowing Liao, Kurita, the Wolves, etc to take the outer shell of Fortress worlds, in return for making Terra herself (and Mars, et al) virtually.  Much as the Fortress was to the Republic as a whole, but in miniature.

[Wrangler]

Another factor was there were rewrites since Field Manual: 3145.  New management coming in and wanting Shattered Fortress to be redone.

I think by doing so, they changed what should have been into something else we have now.

[Stormlion1]

Another option is Terra is so heavily reinforced that it would need massive amounts of forces to take it. Far more than they used when it was taken from WoB. And it wouldnt suprise me if some of that rebuilding the RoTS did was rebuilding the static defences, the orbital defence weapons, and maybe some warship construction with lots of pocket warship construction added on top.

[pfarland]

Or maybe realizing that they WILL lose either to the first invasion from outside or the next or the one after that, The Republic just LEFT.

Listen, you know you have more than a decade or so to prepare for an invasion from all fronts and by all comers. Sure you might be able to beat down the first attacker or three, but you know more are coming. If you stay and defend, you WILL lose. You have two choices really Stay and lose or Retreat and live to return later.

You DON'T shift to wartime production, you start making Jumpships and Dropships for carrying as much of the RoTS as you can. You pull a Kerensky and just GTFO, except this time you have 15 YEARS to get ready to leave and without any worry of secrecy. You can pack up entire FACTORIES and production lines. You could potentially take most of the population of Prefecture X if you get enough ships made. Imagine that, the enemy finally comes in and only finds a token force and population left with the planets stripped of most modern tech. You take your fleet and jump above the galactic plane to escape or use dead systems or ones that have never been settled as Jump points on your way out.

You have the Fidelis out there somewhere as an ally. You might be able to find some Wobbies (or even already know where they are and been sitting on the info), if you're willing to make a deal with the devil. You might even be able to track down the Wolverines if you had Interstellar Expeditions working on the problem long enough...

[Arkansas Warrior]

Or maybe realizing that they WILL lose either to the first invasion from outside or the next or the one after that, The Republic just LEFT.

Listen, you know you have more than a decade or so to prepare for an invasion from all fronts and by all comers. Sure you might be able to beat down the first attacker or three, but you know more are coming. If you stay and defend, you WILL lose. You have two choices really Stay and lose or Retreat and live to return later.

You DON'T shift to wartime production, you start making Jumpships and Dropships for carrying as much of the RoTS as you can. You pull a Kerensky and just GTFO, except this time you have 15 YEARS to get ready to leave and without any worry of secrecy. You can pack up entire FACTORIES and production lines. You could potentially take most of the population of Prefecture X if you get enough ships made. Imagine that, the enemy finally comes in and only finds a token force and population left with the planets stripped of most modern tech. You take your fleet and jump above the galactic plane to escape or use dead systems or ones that have never been settled as Jump points on your way out.

You have the Fidelis out there somewhere as an ally. You might be able to find some Wobbies (or even already know where they are and been sitting on the info), if you're willing to make a deal with the devil. You might even be able to track down the Wolverines if you had Interstellar Expeditions working on the problem long enough...

???   We know they didn't do that..

[PsihoKekec]

You could potentially take most of the population of Prefecture X if you get enough ships made.

You couldn't take even a fraction of population of Prefecture X with the ships Republic has at hands and could make in those 15 years.

[Wrangler]

It would been more logical that the Republic had built up bigger force to defend, the writers put in a weakness of there being no Republic Standing Guard to defend the individual worlds.  The FM:3145 had suggested the most of the rebuild military formations (some i think) were Division size (like SLDF size formations) with a lot of Combined arms filling around those Regiment of Mech at their core.  That's a lot firepower, perhaps not a lot of mobility though.

Shattered didn't gleem too much information how well these bigger formations performed. Nevermind the mighty clobbering first of the Stone's Brigade of Regiments. Those guys were the elite.

NorthWind supposedly had some factories running by now, Targe, for example. (i know it's a bad mech).  All of those factories in New Earth was pumping stuff out from hidden factories for the ComStar/WoB splinter group which out put went to the Republic.  Sol System's factories were supposedly gearing up for production. I don't know, i just didn't see a lot this stuff ending up making enough numbers to make a difference.   15 years was enough time get something going, i think concentrate weakness in the Republic's regiments behind the blinders of the Fortress wasn't going to cut it.

[Kojak]

Fifteen years was enough time for the Word of Blake to go from ten divisions to fifty-two.

[Colt Ward]

Fifteen years was enough time for the Word of Blake to go from ten divisions to fifty-two.

By stealing, salvaging and buying equipment across the Inner Sphere . . . and 10?  They had 10 when FMCS was written, but that was after taking Terra . . . it would be more accurate to say a couple of unformed divisions in '52 with the defection to the 50+ by '67.  Plus outfitting mercs & pirates along with false flag operations- along with unnumbered caches around Clan space.  The Republic started from a stronger position, but they are not buying across a pair of Houses and stealing everywhere else.

[Kojak]

The point is that given that the Republic has access to many of the same industrial resources (i.e. Terra and the other core worlds), it's not implausible for them to have undergone the same massive expansion in the same timeframe.

[Colt Ward]

But it was not just Terra that let the Blakists built up . . . they were buying from the League after skimming money off their transactions, had production out in the periphery . . . the Republic has what was shut down on Terra, New Earth, Northwind . . . and what, maybe Epsilon Eridani?

[GreekFire]

Alright, I just went through Shattered Fortress and compared the Republic formations with what we knew of them in FM:3145.

Although there are a few errors that might muddle things a bit (the 11th Triari seem to be everywhere, for example), it seems like most of the line Republic forces saw combat...they were just spread very thin.

The Triarii Protectors are mostly dead. The 11th is in a weird maybe dead/maybe not limbo state, while the 14th is unaccounted for. The other Regiments are destroyed.

The Principes Guards are entirely dead. All of their Battalions seem to be accounted for, and have been destroyed.

The Hastati Sentinels are very battered, but most of their formations retreated from their conflicts and largely survived. If I'm not mistaken, only the 11th and probably the 16th were fully destroyed.

The Fides Defenders are comparatively doing OK. Half of their Regiments were destroyed. The 3rd was unaccounted for, and the 5th and 6th have both seen combat but are still around.

Finally, all of the six regiments of Stone's Brigade are intact and mostly unaccounted for.
So if there's an ace in the hole here, it's involves them.

[hf22]

The big problem, which has been subject to explicit lampshading in both Shattered Fortress and the recent Shell Games short story, is that Stone's mystery plan doesn't seem to make much sense. Either it is just *really* bad and is going to fail in short order, or there is some hidden agenda which will count as success to Devlin?

The hints to date have been it might be a planned surrender to whomever will be the Ilclan, with Stone playing some role in the nature of the reformed Star League, which might be an acceptable success to him from a character perspective (i.e. accepting the ROTS failed to change society enough to be sustainable, so looking to the 3rd League as a chance for a more radical reshaping or something).

[pfarland]

Remember, we have the Fidelis out there that could play a part. And if I'm correct, they went looking for something.

What could the former Jaguars want? Probably a home world, but my conspiracy theory is that they go and find Clan Wolverine. They did have access to Terra and old ComStar databases and as such trusted and highly respected troops were probably allowed as much access into the old archives as they wanted. Combining Clan knowledge and the info that was collected by ComStar, CS's Explorer Corp, and Interstellar Expeditions they figured out where (or a few likely paths), that Wolverine had traveled.

[GreekFire]

Remember, we have the Fidelis out there that could play a part. And if I'm correct, they went looking for something.

When did they do that? I just looked through Shattered Fortress, last mention I found of them was during the Republic vs Republic battle on Callison.

[pfarland]

When did they do that? I just looked through Shattered Fortress, last mention I found of them was during the Republic vs Republic battle on Callison.

Been a while, maybe I'm wrong. Plus, book access is limited, in the middle of a move.

[Kojak]

Pretty sure you're thinking of the Kell Hounds?

[pfarland]

Not unknown for me to misremember things.

[Wrangler]

Kell Hound's main regiments were wiped out in Bonfire Fire of Worlds.  The remains of them were gathered by Calamity Kell and she took the survivors on revenge campaign in the Jade Falcon space and then exited the Inner Sphere for parts unknown.

[Colt Ward]

Not quite . . .

They were wiped out in Bonfire (Jellico's avatar was a KH Awesome dodging orbital strikes) along with some Horses by Malvina- b/c the Horses were taking too long.  Calamity had been sent with Trillian Steiner-Davion to ask for help from the FedSuns- she ended up as Julian's liaison.  Hounds were gone by the time she got back to Lyran space to pitch in for the Wolves 1st offensive against the Lyrans after halting the League attacks.  She ended up commanding the defense of Tharkad City . . . and then after that was done, she presumably tried to put the Hounds back together by recalling retired Hounds, getting new ones, and graduating trainees from their programs early.  We have no idea what size, quality or equipment she was able to put together before everything kicked off again but her equipment state should be pretty good- KH factories, Warden Wolf factories, Sea Fox trade, and whatever support Trillian threw her way.

Real question is, why was she not on Arc Royal with the recovering Hounds when Malvina invaded-  planetary defense units and the Warden Wolf garrison was all that were on planet.  The Wolf Khan was killed by treachery but some escaped . . . TRO3150 says she gathered the Hounds, Wolves? and a vague others before proceeding to hit the Falcons on her way 'back to where it all started.'  The question was she headed for where Katrina, Arthur, and Morgan found the black boxes in the periphery?  Clan Home worlds? or other points in Hound/Wolf history.  The Wolves bled out defending against Mad Malvina . . . some ended up re-joining the Crusaders, but they were few- IIRC the survivors voted against it.  To be honest from the pieces I would expect them to have at best two clusters of nominal strength, decent Isegrim support for the JS fleet . . . the Wolf JS/DS fleet would mostly be filled with support & refugees IMO, both Kell Hound & Wolf mixed together.

[False Son]

But it was not just Terra that let the Blakists built up . . . they were buying from the League after skimming money off their transactions, had production out in the periphery . . . the Republic has what was shut down on Terra, New Earth, Northwind . . . and what, maybe Epsilon Eridani?

There are Republic original facilities, like Rhodes Foundry on Devil's Rock deliberately included in Fortress Republic.  RAF Manufacturing on Terra, makers of the Lich.

[Colt Ward]

One more world and maybe another factory on Terra does still not make up for what the Blakists were stealing from the FedCom, Razzies, and Dracs let alone what they bought/skimmed from the League.

[False Son]

No.  Not at all.  I'm actually on your side.  I just wanted to be complete.

The other thing to remember is that the Republic was mostly operating in a closed circle, whereas the WOB supply chain, pre-Jihad was almost limitless.  ROM initiated data purges in the last days of WOB occupation of Terra.  There's no telling what sort of damage that did to the WOB manufacturing base.  It may not be as simple as saying the WOB assets were operational for the Republic to the same extent.

[Drewbacca]

I have the feeling that whoever becomes ilClan is going to have a ton of super heavy tripod mechs. I am really interested to see how things play out.

[Wrangler]

I have the feeling that whoever becomes ilClan is going to have a ton of super heavy tripod mechs. I am really interested to see how things play out.

Because their crewing compliment, i think their going to be "no go" mech.

Omegas maybe if they weren't tainted by the WoB connection, but their still one-crew machines last i checked (including the Republic HPPC variant - but no Record Sheet it for it.)

[Drewbacca]

Maybe, but I think even the most hidebound Clan would look at the tripods and not take them.

[Wrangler]

Maybe, but I think even the most hidebound Clan would look at the tripods and not take them.

Well, the Omegas are two leggers. I would think of the things being the ultimate in way of honor dueling machines can get.

I personally think the Hell's Horses would have less of an issue since their using QuadVees with their split crew arrangement.

[Auberan]

The big problem, which has been subject to explicit lampshading in both Shattered Fortress and the recent Shell Games short story, is that Stone's mystery plan doesn't seem to make much sense. Either it is just *really* bad and is going to fail in short order, or there is some hidden agenda which will count as success to Devlin?

Don't forget that Stone is what, 90+ and suffering from cold storage induced insanity. His mystery plan might simply be trying to figure out where he left the remote. What remained of the Republic was just so desperate, and his legend so great, that they trust him implicitly. It was never going to go well for them.

[Arkansas Warrior]

Don't forget that Stone is what, 90+ and suffering from cold storage induced insanity. His mystery plan might simply be trying to figure out where he left the remote. What remained of the Republic was just so desperate, and his legend so great, that they trust him implicitly. It was never going to go well for them.

That's a rather large claim.  What's your evidence for that?

[dgorsman]

RPG notes from the back of FM:3145.  Dudes got freezer burn.

[Colt Ward]

Where?  I just checked the back and yeah its got the new tech . . . RATs . . . maps . . . and RS, but I did not find any RPG notes.

[Arkansas Warrior]

ER3145 has some RPG data on major personalities, but says nothing about Stone being insane, as far as I saw.  Now, it does say that Tucker Harwell has -3 TP compulsion/Paranoid, but that's different.

[Wrangler]

i'm slowly reading Bonfire of Worlds, but i got to the part of his rescue, damn did his sister and neo-ComStar did a job on his mind.

[dgorsman]

FM:3145, page 211.

Special rules: Devlin Stone (Personality)

-3 TP Handicap Trait (Brain Damage) etc. etc.

[Colt Ward]

Sorry, that is not insanity . . . short tempered and maybe a bit of memory loss b/c of age.  But it ALSO explains he is still rational enough to recognize those problems and left Levin as Exarch.

[Arkansas Warrior]

Yeah, it says he's irritable and easily fatigued (which makes him more irritable) and that certain names of past friends or enemies can send him into a disoriented reverie, but that's not insanity.

[JPArbiter]

Because their crewing compliment, i think their going to be "no go" mech.

Omegas maybe if they weren't tainted by the WoB connection, but their still one-crew machines last i checked (including the Republic HPPC variant - but no Record Sheet it for it.)

I dunno on either of these points. Most of the clans by now have thoroughly “gone native” to the point where they barely resemble the pre invasion paradigms of their former selves.

You also assume that even though an ilClan will rise that Clan Culture will not fundamentally change with the rise of the Third Star League as a result. We don’t even know who the first meaningful ilKhan will be once the bodies stop piling up. For all we know it could be a spheroid like Tucker Harwell.

Stranger things have happened in BTech “History”

[Orwell84]

I dunno on either of these points. Most of the clans by now have thoroughly “gone native” to the point where they barely resemble the pre invasion paradigms of their former selves.

You also assume that even though an ilClan will rise that Clan Culture will not fundamentally change with the rise of the Third Star League as a result. We don’t even know who the first meaningful ilKhan will be once the bodies stop piling up. For all we know it could be a spheroid like Tucker Harwell.

Given Devlin Stone's cryptic comments to Tucker about reforging the Republic into something new and different, this is actually quite likely. The Third Star League might well resemble a fusion of Republic and Rasalhague Dominion society more than anything else. Governed by a mix of trueborn Bloodnamed, freeborn warriors who've earned their rank Clan fashion, and civilian Paladins, all of whom had to earn Star League citizenship one way or another.

Don't think I can see Tucker Harwell being elected ilKhan - the Clanners at least wouldn't spring for a civilian leader in his lifetime - but certainly he'd probably be the League's first Scientist-General (or whatever they name the head of the Scientist Caste). Especially if he oversees the project restoring the HPG network.

[pfarland]

Given Devlin Stone's cryptic comments to Tucker about reforging the Republic into something new and different, this is actually quite likely. The Third Star League might well resemble a fusion of Republic and Rasalhague Dominion society more than anything else. Governed by a mix of trueborn Bloodnamed, freeborn warriors who've earned their rank Clan fashion, and civilian Paladins, all of whom had to earn Star League citizenship one way or another.

That would be a good setting. Add in some invaders from outside at some point.

Where does the Fidelis fit in?

[Wrangler]

Where does the Fidelis fit in?

Knowing Battletech, i suspect dead or on the run. I hope they survive, but things tend to be tossed up in air. 

[dgorsman]

Knowing Battletech, i suspect dead or on the run. I hope they survive, but things tend to be tossed up in air.

Cats usually land on their feet.

[Orwell84]

Cats usually land on their feet.

In Battletech? ??? The ghosts of Clans Smoke Jaguar and Nova Cat may beg to differ. True, the Fidelis and Spirit Cats have done OK, but the lion's share of their respective Clans were toasted by the Dragon's fire. Also, do the Fidelis even use feline imagery?

[Wrangler]

In Battletech? ??? The ghosts of Clans Smoke Jaguar and Nova Cat may beg to differ. True, the Fidelis and Spirit Cats have done OK, but the lion's share of their respective Clans were toasted by the Dragon's fire. Also, do the Fidelis even use feline imagery?

No, the Fidelis just "MacGyver" anything they need to make it work for a situation.

[pfarland]

In Battletech? ??? The ghosts of Clans Smoke Jaguar and Nova Cat may beg to differ. True, the Fidelis and Spirit Cats have done OK, but the lion's share of their respective Clans were toasted by the Dragon's fire. Also, do the Fidelis even use feline imagery?

Actually, you can see the old Jaguar in their symbol, just faint.

[Orwell84]

Actually, you can see the old Jaguar in their symbol, just faint.

Why, so it is, that and the Fides Defenders. I hadn't actually looked too closely at their insignia.

Faint, but noticeable indeed. Enough, in fact, that they hopefully have a plausible explanation for awkward inquiries...

[Wrangler]

I have a question. Why is the Fidelis combat units being called Fides.  Is that how you pronounce the name if it's plural?

[nckestrel]

I have a question. Why is the Fidelis combat units being called Fides.  Is that how you pronounce the name if it's plural?

IANAL (I am not a Latin expert), but Fides is Faith while Fidelis is Faithful?

[Lord Harlock]

Actually, you can see the old Jaguar in their symbol, just faint.

To be fair, it's still on their copy of the Remembrance, but to see the book, it wouldn't be easy.

[James Bedford]

So I re-read Shattered Fortress and I came up with a list of all destroyed Republic regiments/battalions, where they were destroyed, when, and by who.

Hastati Sentinels Regiments
7th Hastati (Heavily damaged on Callison, Arianna Zou taken bondswoman by Clan Wolf)(Wolf Empire, 3150)
10th Hastati (Defeated on Wing, retreated) (Wolf Empire 3150)
11th Hastati (Defeated, drove to ground on Thorin) (CJF 3151)
13th Hastati’s (1 Battalion on Epsilon Indi, 1 Battalion damaged on Bryant, remaining Battalion mauled on New Home) (House Liao, 3149)
15th Hastatis (defeated on Castor) (Wolf Empire 3150)

Principes Guards Regiments
3rd Principes (1st Battalion on Chertan, hurt on Marcus) (Wolf Empire 3149, 3150)
10th Principes (Partially destroyed on Shiloh) (Wolf Empire 3150)
11th Principes (Destroyed/absorbed on Alula Australis, fought CJF on Thorin) (Wolf Empire 3151)
12th Principes (Defeated on Phecda, retreated, destroyed on Pollux) (Wolf Empire 3150, 3151)
14th Principes (1 battalion lost on Hall, 1 battalion lost on Outreach) (House Liao 3149)
13th Principes (1st battalion lost on Episolon Eridani, 2nd battalion Lost on Terra Firma)(House Liao 3149)
15th Principes (Destroyed/Absorbed on Denebola) (Wolf Empire, 3150)

Triarii Protectors Regiments
8th Triarii Protectors (Defeated on Alhena, hurt on Marcus) (Wolf Empire 3149, 3150)
10 Triarii Protectors (Destroyed on Wing) (Wolf Empire 3150)
11th Triarii Protectors (defeated on Outreach, showed back up on Liberty)(House Liao 3149)
12th Triarii Protectors (Destroyed to the last on Garcrux) (3150)
13th Triarii Protectors (Defeated on Procyon, 3149) (House Liao)

Fides Defenders
1st Fides (Defeated on Shiloh, forced to retreat, destroyed on Graham IV) (Wolf Empire 3150)
2nd Fides (Defeated on Phecda, retreated, destroyed on Pollux) (Wolf Empire 3150, 3151)
4th Fides (Destroyed on Rigil Kentarus, fought alongside Clan Wolf) (Clan Jade Falcon, 3151)
5th Fides (Defeated on Castor) (wolf Empire 3150)

Republic Mercs
Aquamarines (Forced to ground on Formahault, 3150)

The Fidelis on New Earth surrendered en masse to Clan Wolf, and Paul Moon was seen meeting with Khan Alaric Ward

Just for completion's sake, here are the 2 "Army Groups" the ROTS used in Operation Eruptio, and then against Clan Wolf.
First Army Group
10th Hastati, Principes, Triarii, 1st Fides Defenders
2nd Army Group
11th Principes, 12th Principes, 12th Triarii, 2nd Fides Defenders

It really just doesn't make sense to me that Devlin Stone would throw away almost 75% of his military, leaving only 1 Hastatis Regiment (The 12th, which he was going to throw away on Northwind til Tara Campbell convinced him not too), and the Stone's Brigade on Terra.  If his plan is to lure in Clan Wolf and try to merge the 2, surely he could have done so without throwing away all the other Brigades.  Why not merge them all on Terra?

[Colt Ward]

Its questionable if the Fidelis surrendered to Alaric . . . Paul Moon surrendered the planet, yes but he was leaving.  My assumption is that he was negotiating the trial for Terra with Alaric under Stone's guidance.

BUT . . . I have never put a new fiction merged with Shattered Fortress timeline together . . . and I do not think anyone else has yet.

As a Wolf, I am just looking forward to killing Falcons.

[James Bedford]

So with the recent Rock of the Republic novella out, I still don't get why Stone, who is so focused on defending Terra, let 75% of his military get punked.  Is he trying to "appear" as if he's putting up a fight?  Wouldn't have 19 regiments on Terra to defend it be better than the 7 or 8 he has now?  Still doesn't make sense to me.

[nckestrel]

let 75% of his military get punked. 

Where did 75% of his military "get punked"?

[James Bedford]

Where did 75% of his military "get punked"?

Shattered Fortress, read my previous posts where I list all of the Republic regiments that got killed, often one-by-one rather than getting pulled back (We know they could have been pulled back because Stone's Defenders got pulled back from fighting the Capellans)

[Colt Ward]

For most it was not complete regiments that got wiped out on a planet- usually it was a battalion mix.

[nckestrel]

Shattered Fortress, read my previous posts where I list all of the Republic regiments that got killed, often one-by-one rather than getting pulled back (We know they could have been pulled back because Stone's Defenders got pulled back from fighting the Capellans)

ah, I thought you were saying Rock of the Republic had Stone throwing away 75%.  gotcha now.

[pat_hdx]

For the most part I think that CGL is doing a good job with the new era, but while I know it is a mech-centric game, the way the Republic Navy seems to have gone AWOL/nerfed is one of the least well explained issues.

The Republic has developed all these powerful PWSs like the Castrums and Tiamats, and you never seem to see them. All the Faslane's and Newgranges that could have served as support ships for raiding squadrons out of unpopulated systems outside of the Republic's walls? Mothballed or lost in industrial accidents.

I also understand that building warships is difficult, but if the Word Of Blake could build   Dantes during the Jihad, I'd have liked to see the Republic build a few, given they are fluffed as particularly cost effective.

[Wrangler]

I was thinking. Would it be possible that goes missing forces of Republic were up with the Army groups? That would be a logical answer where some of the Republic forces disappeared to.

There were at least two Army groups. I don't have my books with me. So I don't know for sure if there were more or what date consisted of.

[dgorsman]

For the most part I think that CGL is doing a good job with the new era, but while I know it is a mech-centric game, the way the Republic Navy seems to have gone AWOL/nerfed is one of the least well explained issues.

The Republic has developed all these powerful PWSs like the Castrums and Tiamats, and you never seem to see them. All the Faslane's and Newgranges that could have served as support ships for raiding squadrons out of unpopulated systems outside of the Republic's walls? Mothballed or lost in industrial accidents.

I also understand that building warships is difficult, but if the Word Of Blake could build   Dantes during the Jihad, I'd have liked to see the Republic build a few, given they are fluffed as particularly cost effective.

I'm not aware of any Dante-class frigates being built during the Jihad.  Any fleet assets were either taken from Luyten, or captured from the ComGuards.  The only WarShip construction, if it can be called that, would be further upgrades to the Naga-class drone control ships (VSPs, MMLs, SCLs, for better anti-fighter defenses).

[Weirdo]

I forget where, but we were specifically told that the Dantes in Blakist service were NOT captured from Cornstar.

[Colt Ward]

I forget where, but we were specifically told that the Dantes in Blakist service were NOT captured from Cornstar.

Could be with the Fidelis- they had a Dante as of the Dark Ages . . . I think they basically traded their Jag DD/FF for the Dante as part of the Jihad.

[pat_hdx]

I'm not aware of any Dante-class frigates being built during the Jihad.  Any fleet assets were either taken from Luyten, or captured from the ComGuards.  The only WarShip construction, if it can be called that, would be further upgrades to the Naga-class drone control ships (VSPs, MMLs, SCLs, for better anti-fighter defenses).

I may be wrong, and the comment was based on Sarna; but it seems that Comstar build three Dantes: Bordeaux, Montpellier, and Narbonne. So the editor in Sarna took one look at page 128 of Jihad Final Reckoning and saw that there were two additional Dantes: Perdition and Salvation.

Oystein confirmed that they are not captured Comstar units, hence the assumption they are newly build:
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,12100.msg287455.html#msg287455

[Colt Ward]

Both may technically be right . . . the Blakists had what, 4-6 years of control of the Titan Yards before the Jihad kicked off?  So no new ships during the Jihad but the Blakists DID have new Dantes built.

[pat_hdx]

In any event, I'd just like to see the RoS Navy make a respectable showing, with some of the interesting units they've had access to for a while, and make at least a few smart efficient warship choices. I'm not saying 30 McKennas...

[Colt Ward]

Warspite sounds like a good name for a Leviathan to me . . .

[Wrangler]

The naval enthusiast in me hopes its actual new new design verses updated variant of an existing one like the Dante. My pessimist feeling is the Odds are more on the later. Economically makes sense and easer on designers to reuse something that maybe a throw way variant design. Which is a shame to me. However as much i want a balanced universe with serial produced Warships and other designs with other units in Battletech. Im vary much in the minority.

There also those defense platforms which apparently have allot anticapital missiles and fighter bays. Those could be reused Dragons breath multi-missile launching stations.

[mrbooth]

Warspite sounds like a good name for a Leviathan to me . . .

I am hoping for a newly designed battleship according to Rock of the Republic they now have 4 warships active, here is hoping

[Wrangler]

I am hoping for a newly designed battleship according to Rock of the Republic they now have 4 warships active, here is hoping

Did you read the Shattered Fortress source book?

[Metallgewitter]

I have a question: was there ever an explanation why Stone dropped the fortress? From what I understood none of the attempts from outside met with success. And if he wanted to supply the FedSuns wouldn't it have been sufficient to simply send a Jumpship once in a while with enough material? I haven't read Shattered Fortress but from the TRO 3145 the Fortress had several factories running as hard as in their Jihad days.

And I remeber from the 2nd succession war book (unfortunaterly this is not avalaibale where i live) there was a mention of an Ilkhan Banacek. From what I know Banacek is a Star Adder bloodname. So a hint to the few Homeworld clans? I jnow where far fetched but it would be funny to have the Jadefalcons being chewed up by some other Clanners

And if I think about Terra's defenses: Stone could reactivate the few Wyrm ships they captured in the Jihad (or probably build more of those)  Reactivate the Castle Brians and maybe reactivate SDS and drones (if that is even possible)

[GreekFire]

I have a question: was there ever an explanation why Stone dropped the fortress? From what I understood none of the attempts from outside met with success. And if he wanted to supply the FedSuns wouldn't it have been sufficient to simply send a Jumpship once in a while with enough material? I haven't read Shattered Fortress but from the TRO 3145 the Fortress had several factories running as hard as in their Jihad days.

And I remeber from the 2nd succession war book (unfortunaterly this is not avalaibale where i live) there was a mention of an Ilkhan Banacek. From what I know Banacek is a Star Adder bloodname. So a hint to the few Homeworld clans? I jnow where far fetched but it would be funny to have the Jadefalcons being chewed up by some other Clanners

Fortress got dropped because they were running out of K-F drives to power it (if what I've heard is accurate).

Also, the ilKhan Banacek thing is from an april fools product, not 2nd SW. We haven't gotten the name of the future ilKhan, just the loremaster (Stephan Roshak).

[mrbooth]

Did you read the Shattered Fortress source book?

Yes but if I am missing or have forgotten something please clarify?

[James Bedford]

Yes but if I am missing or have forgotten something please clarify?

The Republic intentionally did not build more Warships to discourage a warship arms race.  And so are once again outnumbered by Clan Warships.

[Elmoth]

Reading you.... Could someone remind me where the Republic did not do the worst option possible? I am guessing they only need to have liquidated all the factories on Earth and turned the planet into an Amish retreat to complete their utter failure as an interstellar empire...

I.am not into dark age stuff, but I am quite flippant at the effort the RotS seems to be putting forward to help it's enemies to defeat itself. It must be a conscious plan.

[Walrus Gumboot]

Because their crewing compliment, i think their going to be "no go" mech.

Omegas maybe if they weren't tainted by the WoB connection, but their still one-crew machines last i checked (including the Republic HPPC variant - but no Record Sheet it for it.)

Hells Horses has those vehicle sibkos.

[mrbooth]

The Republic intentionally did not build more Warships to discourage a warship arms race.  And so are once again outnumbered by Clan Warships.

The problem with that quote is Rock if the Republic specifically quoted 4 ship active 5 if the Flatus is you counted. Warspite is also being built at Titan so I would think the  at least one ship has been built and or salvaged and reinstated but Warspite seems to be a new build based on the book.

[Colt Ward]

Warspite could be a new warship . . . built around a railgun . . . that fires compact cores at clusters of enemy ships, that then trigger creating a jump bubble to wreck enemy warships, DS & ASF just like that Fox class wrecked a Avalon & escorts.

[PsihoKekec]

I don't think a core could survive the accleration of railgun launch.

[DaveMac]

Whats the possibility that the RoTS has developed a whole new series of drones and plans on using them to defend Terra?

[Wrangler]

Well, i don't know about "New" They did re-develop some drones.  Like the three of them, CLR-03-O Celerity (ultralight OmniMech Drone), Revenant (light Quad BattleMech Drone), UABM-2R Lich (Assault Quad BattleMech Drone).  The Lich appeared under the radar in XTRO: Republic III, which unlike alot of the XTROs were things that were mass produced, if not limited production.  The Zephyr Omni-Drone (Its mod of the SLDF Hovercraft) was being built as early as 3096, i think a lot people have forgotten about it.  Major issue with it, is one its configurations wasn't legal due to C3 being included in it.  It was in XTRO: Republic I.

That's all i'm aware of. Unless those Missile platforms Republic of the Sphere are building in Terra System have drone fighters.

[Colt Ward]

I don't think a core could survive the accleration of railgun launch.

Its a big chunk of metal . . . real question would be could the controls to induce a jump field survive.  And if they wave their hands right, they could.

I was just going for outrageous weapons that would be linked to use up jump cores.