Author Topic: Solaris Class 1 (Read 2183 times)

Mossconfig · « **on:** 18 May 2020, 01:57:37 »

Hi guys. Right now I'm trying to argue that battle armor could have been used in the inner sphere far earlier that it was because none of the techs were especially complex. The power packs, myomer and armor were all known technology. Sarna claims that Solaris has a class one arena where converted exoskeletons duke it out and I was hoping that there might be some pre 3050 designs for battle armor to prove my point. The thing is, it only shows the gladiator exoskeleton, built in 3056. It doesn't show any class 1 champions at all. Do you guys have any information on the state of class 1 arenas before the 3050's?

Lorcan Nagle · « **Reply #1 on:** 18 May 2020, 02:16:52 »

The first detailed dive into Solaris was the box set, which was set in 3055. Before that the most detailed look at the world would have been the novel Warrior: En Garde, but it was focused on Justin Xiang's time there and all the pertinent information was repeated in the Solaris box. I don't recall converted exoskeletons being mentioned in the novel but it's been a long time since I read it.

In terms of pre-Clan Invasion BattleArmour technology in the Inner Sphere, the Star League had the Nighthawk Power Armour (Light) suit which offers the protection of BattleArmour while only carrying anti-personnel weapons, but it was never produced in great enough numbers to be deployed outside of special forces, and while ComStar ended up with a stock of them, they were never able to prouduce Nighthawks. In the 2900s they did introduce a homebrew equivalent called the Tornado, which was severely limited in deployment until the 3060s. Nighthawks were practically unknown in the Inner Sphere until the Helm Core was disseminated. The Bounty Hunter wears a customised Nighthawk that was presumably discovered in a lostech cache at some point.

Meanwhile, exoskeletons are common enough tech to have been listed in TRO:3026.

dgorsman · « **Reply #2 on:** 18 May 2020, 10:30:07 »

Think less 'Roman Colosseum' and more cross between 'American Gladiator' and 'Junkyard Wars'. Bits of light plate welded on doesn't make for armor against military weapons, and clubs and such wouldn't fly on the battlefield. The suits are slow and ungainly to boot.

Mossconfig · « **Reply #3 on:** 18 May 2020, 10:45:58 »

Quote from: dgorsman on 18 May 2020, 10:30:07

The suits are slow and ungainly to boot.

Unfortunately, that fit with the TR 3026 material. The suits are said to move at half walk speed. But that doesn't fit with the arena description on sarna. The lighter classes are about movement, and the heaver ones become slugfests. It seems the problem of getting an armored humanoid frame to move around fast is something that the techs of Solaris have lots of experience with, and shouldn't pose that big of a problem. The thing is, there is absolutely no material focussing on Solaris pre 3050, so were left to our own devices.

dgorsman · « **Reply #4 on:** 18 May 2020, 11:24:38 »

Quote

But that doesn't fit with the arena description on sarna.

Link please?

Mossconfig · « **Reply #5 on:** 18 May 2020, 12:41:14 »

Quote from: dgorsman on 18 May 2020, 11:24:38

Link please?

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Solaris_Games#cite_ref-CBMapp13_8-0

The power tier arenas are faster than the slower heavy hitters. Battletech science should be more than capible of getting a humanoid frame to move around quickly. The TR reports that the civilian exoskeletons available can only move at walking speed, but I'd like to bet that a hot rod shop would be able to boost that speed.

assaultdoor · « **Reply #6 on:** 19 May 2020, 10:10:09 »

The citation you've got, along with pretty much all the information on the arenas, is from after the Clan invasion. On the other hand, Lostech: The MechWarrior Equipment Guide says that most of the technology used to build the Infiltrator already existed. Not all of it - apparently NAIS used some data captured from the Clans, and the Inner Sphere hadn't really thought about combat or recon power armor until the Clans demonstrated it.

Scotty · « **Reply #7 on:** 19 May 2020, 10:49:35 »

A good rule of thumb is to never assume that just because something is possible that it must have happened, especially in the Inner Sphere regarding technology. ComStar was actively suppressing advancement where they could for hundreds of years, and I'd be surprised if anyone developed a Nighthawk-alike without being swiftly disappeared by ROM using the actual thing.

dgorsman · « **Reply #8 on:** 19 May 2020, 11:50:09 »

The exo-skeleton arenas would be more like an MMA or professional wrestling ring than the Mech sized arenas. There's no need to run fast because there's no room for it. Now there *might* be some place for something along the lines of a bizarre steeplechase race as a preliminary to one of the bigger matches, but that's a very niche situation.

Hellraiser · « **Reply #9 on:** 19 May 2020, 11:53:10 »

Before BA they used Civilian Exoskeletons, IE Ripley Suits, and it was proper H2H fights.

Seems pretty straight forward to me.

RifleMech · « **Reply #10 on:** 20 May 2020, 04:18:07 »

It would be cool if we got new stats for the TRO:3026 Exoskeletons. That said between the old fluff and the currant rules I think there's some room for exoskeletons to be upgraded Solaris VII style. I don't think they'd be as effective as the Nighthawk though. I also don't think Class 1 took off until after the Clan Invasion and tech improved. It just wouldn't have been as interesting or exciting.

Hellraiser · « **Reply #11 on:** 22 May 2020, 18:22:13 »

Remember all those Solaris special mechs?

How they all have Maces & such on them.

People like to see things get physical.

Exoskeletons are the epitome of that since they have no weapons.

But they aren't like the NFL. That is the Class-6 Championships.

Class-1 is like Mid Day at the sportsbar on TV. Only instead of repeats from last Sunday its showing Class-1 events.

Like small college sports teams, or maybe Single-A/Double-AA baseball is a better example? Stuff that doesn't get Monday Night play basically, but there are still games & someone somewhere is showing them.

Nav_Alpha · « **Reply #12 on:** 22 May 2020, 20:06:32 »

Heir to the Dragon had scenes of exo-skeletons up armoured with welded on plate and upgunned with hand held or attached weapons. Not on Solaris, admittedly, but as Yakuza security forces. That was in the 3030s

Giovanni Blasini · « **Reply #13 on:** 23 May 2020, 22:00:59 »

Thanks, Nav_Alpha. Was going to mention that they were, IIRC, supposed to be the source of a lot of the yakuza mechwarriors, too.

Greatclub · « **Reply #14 on:** 24 May 2020, 01:39:48 »

I think we can sum the lack of battlearmor in era up to system integration being a PITA.

After all, they have lots of practice armouring joints on battlemechs, so that can't be a problem, can it? Just because people are different sizes?

dgorsman · « **Reply #15 on:** 24 May 2020, 02:00:16 »

Scale a Catapult to human size, then try to fit a human in it. Robot joints get a whole lot more difficult when there's meat inside.

Giovanni Blasini · « **Reply #16 on:** 24 May 2020, 02:00:57 »

Isn't the heavy environmental suit also described as using myomers to assist the movement of the wearer? Ditto the SLDF pilot's suit. Then there's the Taurian asteroid marines.

Nav_Alpha · « **Reply #17 on:** 24 May 2020, 02:16:30 »

Quote from: Giovanni Blasini on 24 May 2020, 02:00:57

Isn't the heavy environmental suit also described as using myomers to assist the movement of the wearer? Ditto the SLDF pilot's suit. Then there's the Taurian asteroid marines.

Lyrans made some sort of mymor suit armour in the 3030s too

Frabby · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 May 2020, 03:48:11 »

Quote from: Nav_Alpha on 22 May 2020, 20:06:32

Heir to the Dragon had scenes of exo-skeletons up armoured with welded on plate and upgunned with hand held or attached weapons. Not on Solaris, admittedly, but as Yakuza security forces. That was in the 3030s

I don't recall such a scene. Can you provide a page number or chapter please?

I think you are probably misremembering the scene where BattleMechs are assembled from a shipment of supposed AgroMechs, showcasing the clandestine deployment of the Ghost Regiments.

Daryk · « **Reply #19 on:** 24 May 2020, 04:26:23 »

Exoskeletons have had the ability to be sealed for space since the original TRO 3026.

Nav_Alpha · « **Reply #20 on:** 24 May 2020, 04:56:41 »

Quote from: Frabby on 24 May 2020, 03:48:11

I don't recall such a scene. Can you provide a page number or chapter please?

I think you are probably misremembering the scene where BattleMechs are assembled from a shipment of supposed AgroMechs, showcasing the clandestine deployment of the Ghost Regiments.

Nope. I remembered it right.
Page 254, chapter 45. At least in my edition, published in 1989. It’s the one with the Sentinel and Dragon on the cover.

Teddy K goes looking for Yak allies, only to find the gang has splintered and no one wants to talk. He and Michi are chased in to the sewers and eventually saved by Chokei, who is driving the modified exo skeleton. He goes onto command a Ghost Regiment.
Turns out, I was slightly wrong. The suit doesn’t mount weapons, just armour.

Daryk · « **Reply #21 on:** 24 May 2020, 05:05:45 »

Heck, the Nighthawk doesn't mount weapons...