Author Topic: Comstar: good, bad or otherwise?  (Read 7635 times)

Major Headcase

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Re: Comstar: good, bad or otherwise?
« Reply #30 on: 25 April 2018, 03:04:21 »
 :-X
« Last Edit: 11 May 2018, 05:50:01 by Major Headcase »

Frabby

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Re: Comstar: good, bad or otherwise?
« Reply #31 on: 27 April 2018, 04:11:57 »
I think it was a major mistake in the BT universe to turn Comstar basically into another Successor State (only more powerful).    I didn't like the creepy "religious order" Comstar either.    I wish they had just kept it as a more or less neutral communications provider.    Some place that people could flee to avoid trouble as so many did.
Two meta points to consider:

1. In the quasi-fantasy setting of BattleTech (feudalism, knight-errants, quests, damsels, etc.), lostech took the "magic" part and ComStar took the "church/wizard guild" part. They had to be an antagonist. Which leads to...

2. The original Battledroids setup didn't mention ComStar. Nor did the first novel (Decision at Thunder Rift), the plot of which is notable because it practically hinged on superluminal communication being impossible from Helm without using courier JumpShips.
ComStar was apparently invented by Keith as a shadow antagonist for the fourth BT novel, The Price of Glory, and got shoehorned into the second (The Sword and the Dagger), with Ardath Mayhar getting writing advice from Keith on BattleTech universe details.
And then Stackpole took the "evil church" ball and ran with it.
« Last Edit: 27 April 2018, 04:15:19 by Frabby »
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Drewbacca

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Re: Comstar: good, bad or otherwise?
« Reply #32 on: 27 April 2018, 05:57:58 »
2. The original Battledroids setup didn't mention ComStar. Nor did the first novel (Decision at Thunder Rift), the plot of which is notable because it practically hinged on superluminal communication being impossible from Helm without using courier JumpShips.
ComStar was apparently invented by Keith as a shadow antagonist for the fourth BT novel, The Price of Glory, and got shoehorned into the second (The Sword and the Dagger), with Ardath Mayhar getting writing advice from Keith on BattleTech universe details.
And then Stackpole took the "evil church" ball and ran with it.

This does have an effect on how I see C* now.

Luciora

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Re: Comstar: good, bad or otherwise?
« Reply #33 on: 27 April 2018, 09:24:16 »
Good, bad, they are the ones with the phone lines.

Dulahan

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Re: Comstar: good, bad or otherwise?
« Reply #34 on: 27 April 2018, 10:27:34 »
Like others have said.  Shades of grey, with the relative darkness depending on the era and leadership.  though I'd wager a lot of the rank and file probably believed they were the beacons of light throughout.

Misguided also comes to mind a lot.

In general, I'd say in the period between Tukayyid and the end of the Jihad they were relatively good though (In part because the bad went to the Wobbies). 

Minemech

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Re: Comstar: good, bad or otherwise?
« Reply #35 on: 27 April 2018, 19:59:39 »
 One of the issues you will deal with is the tension in flavor between the novels, and the background sources.

Mecha-Anchovy

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Re: Comstar: good, bad or otherwise?
« Reply #36 on: 27 April 2018, 23:40:44 »
People are sometimes quick to forget the profligate use of chemical weapons, nuclear weapons and biological weapons by the likes of apparent 'White Hats' House Davion in the 1st Succession War. Comstar never did anything on that level, not even the Word of Blake fired off as many party-poppers as that.

I think it's hard to blame any one successor state for the use of WMDs in the First Succession War. The problem in the First Succession War is that every state has a large stockpile of WMDs, and once your rival starts to use them, your options are basically 1) use them back and 2) lose.

If I'm Davion, Kurita is nuking me, and I am not willing to nuke Kurita back, Kurita wins. I'm not willing to allow that, so I fire back, Kurita escalates in response, I have to escalate again, and so on. Widespread use of WMDs in the First Succession War was not due to any individual moral failures, but due to an unstable balance of power.

This is also, incidentally, why it's stupid for Clanners to get morally superior about the Succession Wars. Entire worlds were not depopulated because house lords were horrible people (though they may have been, to varying degrees), but because that's what the harsh logic of war demanded.

Has it ever been conclusively established which of the successor states first committed atrocities with large scale use of weapons of mass destruction during the First Succession War?

I don't think so, and to be honest, I don't think it matters. It would have happened independently regardless. The Inner Sphere is large enough and the fighting was brutal enough that more than one group is independently going to come to the conclusion that a nuclear strike is the best option in this situation, and once that happens, there's retaliation in kind, and the weapons are normalised.

Guess that's a matter of opinion. Kentares was bad, but WMD scar a planet for centuries. Many planets in the Inner Sphere still have contaminated zones from WMD strikes in the 1st and 2nd SWs, and some were even wiped right off the map.

Kentares was not actually that bad in terms of effects. The Kuritans depopulated a planet, sure, but lots of planets had been depopulated. Kentares was important because it was personal. There is a massive psychological difference between pushing a button from orbit and thousands upon thousands of soldiers going door-to-door with swords and machine guns. There's also the media effect: Kentares was broadcast across the entire Inner Sphere, in all its gory detail. After a while, it's easy to be numbed to reports of planets bombed. But a video of soldiers beheading screaming women and children? That will stick.

To answer your question more appropriately, Comstar is a tension. It genuinely does beneficial work for humanity, but also acts in its own interests as an organization. This is made complex by various factions within it pushing various directions, not all of which are charitable. This tension made Comstar a fascinating actor, when not a misused plot device. The culture that built it up was supported by these tensions, creating an entity that made Inner Sphere politics quite complex and flavored. Those on the end seen less charitable were often formed by the horrors wrought by the Successor States, and sought to end them.

This is the best response, I think. ComStar is a complex organisation with its own, rather strange ideology which sometimes pushes it to humanitarian action, and sometimes to breathtaking villainy. Whether you think it's ultimately justified or not is a difficult judgement call to make.

I lean towards no, but I think understandably so. That is, I can see how there are quite a lot of genuinely altruistic, well-meaning people in ComStar, both those who aren't really committed to ComStar's grand mission but who value its practical work, and those who do believe the great mission is worth the cost. However, I think that in the long run ComStar's activities are a net negative. Even though there are plenty of ComStar operations that you can point to that, on their own, are beneficial.

Minemech

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Re: Comstar: good, bad or otherwise?
« Reply #37 on: 30 April 2018, 19:53:11 »
 Keep in mind that if Comstar had been up to its usual machinations, Star Lord would have been a different novel--it would make better roleplaying material. ROM does not like competitors.

Frabby

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Re: Comstar: good, bad or otherwise?
« Reply #38 on: 01 May 2018, 02:50:33 »
Keep in mind that if Comstar had been up to its usual machinations, Star Lord would have been a different novel--it would make better roleplaying material. ROM does not like competitors.
Huh?
What little info we have seems to suggest ComStar was indeed involved - "Stefan Amatis VII" was a ComStar Acolythe who just so happened to find proof of his heritage and a boatload of money...
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Kidd

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Re: Comstar: good, bad or otherwise?
« Reply #39 on: 01 May 2018, 03:50:43 »
And then Stackpole took the "evil church" ball and ran with it.
And that seems to have been the inflection point.

If Comstar had been written to stick as strictly white-hats they could have been centers of knowledge of medical tech, terraforming science, localised agricultural solutions, even the patron of charities eg Interstellar Red Cross.

The WOB would then have been black-hat deviants of a white-hat organisation, rather than black offshoots of a dark-grey-at-best

Drewbacca

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Re: Comstar: good, bad or otherwise?
« Reply #40 on: 01 May 2018, 03:52:38 »
Keep in mind that if Comstar had been up to its usual machinations, Star Lord would have been a different novel--it would make better roleplaying material. ROM does not like competitors.

Star Lord?

Minemech

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Re: Comstar: good, bad or otherwise?
« Reply #41 on: 01 May 2018, 09:25:28 »
 Comstar was not involved, hence the "Star lord" was able to recruit those warriors.

Minemech

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Re: Comstar: good, bad or otherwise?
« Reply #42 on: 01 May 2018, 09:26:47 »
Huh?
What little info we have seems to suggest ComStar was indeed involved - "Stefan Amatis VII" was a ComStar Acolythe who just so happened to find proof of his heritage and a boatload of money...
That seemed more like a roleplaying plot device. He also seemed to keep his warriors off of his charisma, and their desperation. The quality of his machines went down over time.
« Last Edit: 01 May 2018, 09:30:44 by Minemech »

Minemech

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Re: Comstar: good, bad or otherwise?
« Reply #43 on: 01 May 2018, 09:27:08 »

 

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