Just played my first game, and I have questions

[Slate]

I picked up the recently released Beginners Box and A Game of Armored Combat boxed sets, and a friend picked up his own copy of A Game of Armored Combat. We both played our first game two weekends ago. I had never played before, but have read through the rulebooks in both boxes; he's a big fan of Mechwarrior Online and the lore, but he only briefly skimmed through his AGoAC rulebook. It was a case of the blind leading the even more blind. We probably got some things wrong.

With a copy of the Beginners Box and two copies of AGoAC between us, we (I) decided to play the scenario from the Beginners Box (Wolverine vs Griffon on the simple desert map with no elevation), but we opted to use the full rules from AGoAC, with heat, torso twisting, and other rules that were missing from the quick-start rules from the beginner box. Many dice were rolled, many laughs were had. I crippled his legs but he destroyed my 2 weapons, and as I ran in with the hopes of stomping him until he was merely more dust in the dusty landscape, he landed a lucky critical on my missile bin. We actually forgot to keep track of ammo, but he still gloats about the look on my face as I looked up the rules for ammo bin explosions, and realized the consequences were far more dire than me taking a bit of extra damage.

The game took between 4 and 5 hours, even though it was only 1v1, though much of this was likely due to our inexperience, and having to refer to various tables and the rulebook constantly. The game progressed faster as we (I) got the hang of figuring out to-hit modifiers. I tried to follow the rules as closely as I understood them, even going as far as buying small white, black, and red dice beforehand to keep track of movement modifiers exactly as the rulebooks suggested. I'm hoping to organize another game with this friend next weekend, but I have some questions that I'm hoping some more experienced players can help me with before we get stuck in again.

What scenario should we play next?
Originally I was thinking that we'd simply play them in order, starting with the Beginners Box and moving onto the 1st scenario from AGoAC, then scenario 2 etc. But a simple 1v1 from the Beginners Box took a long time, and the first scenario from AGoAC is 4v4! Of course, things will be faster now that we're (I'm) more familiar with the math and the turn structure, but I want to play something that a couple of newbs like us could finish in under 4 hours ideally.

So, we could play that 1st scenario from AGoAC, but alternatively, we could play an alternative version of the Beginner Box scenario for our 2nd game. Page 10 of the BB Quick Start rules suggests a 2v2 game; two different Griffons vs. two different Wolverines. But, considering that we have already played a Wolverine vs. Griffon scenario, and we only have one Griffon mini between us, and neither of us want to use cardboard tokens, maybe we should instead have the original Griffon and Wolverine we used in the first game, but we each replace the 2nd mech with another mech of equivalent tonnage? Are mechs of equal tonnage generally considered equivalent to each other in terms of gameplay balance?

We could also play the 4v4 game suggested in the first scenario of the AGoAC rulebook. But how long does this kind of lance vs. lance game generally take? This scenario also states that the game is won when one side cripples[/b] or destroys all mechs on the opposing side. In our first game, we kept playing after both of our mechs were crippled, which might be another reason why our game took so long, so perhaps these crippled mech rules are there to keep the game playable within a reasonable timeframe? If a mech is considered "crippled" under the rules of the scenario on page 48, is it removed from the game immediately, or does it get to fight on if it can do so?

I have also heard of "forced withdrawals", which sounds like a way of keeping games from dragging on for too long. How does that work?

How does ammo work?
I didn't quite understand how ammo works when we played our first game, so we didn't track it. It's not as though we were playing a long-term campaign, after all. When my opponent hit my missile ammo bin, and I read the rules for ammo bin hits, we (I) just assumed that there was probably enough ammo left to wreck my mech and end the game.

So, how does ammo actually work, at least with the pre-made mechs from these two boxed sets? Does each ammo bin on the mech's critical hit table count as a ton of ammo? With each ton giving you the number if shots indicated on page 55 of the AGoAC rulebook? As an example, looking at the Shadow Hawk SHD-2H mech record sheet from the AGoAC box, it's critical hits table shows an AC/5 ammo bin on the left torso, an SRM 2 ammo bin on the center torso, and an LRM 5 ammo bin on the right torso. So, do I record 20 AC/5 shots, 50 SRM 2 shots, and 24 LRM 5 shots in the "Weapons & Equipment Inventory" box on my mech record sheets, subtracting 1 from these bins every time I fire a shot from their respective weapon? And I assume each missile shot is a full salvo of missiles, rather than each individual missile taking up a full shot?

What kind of rules are newbs like us likely to get wrong the first time around?
Like I said earlier, we almost certainly made more mistakes than simply forgetting to track ammo. But we can't know what those mistakes are without a more experienced player helping us. Since you more experienced players couldn't (and probably wouldn't want to) watch us play and see our mistakes for yourselves, could you fill us in on the kinds of mistakes newbs are likely to make?

Sorry for the wall of text, but despite how long our first game took, and the disproportionate amount of time spent flipping through the rulebook, we had a great time, and look forward to trying game #2. I just want to be adequately prepared before I invite my friend for the next game.

[guardiandashi]

So, we could play that 1st scenario from AGoAC, but alternatively, we could play an alternative version of the Beginner Box scenario for our 2nd game. Page 10 of the BB Quick Start rules suggests a 2v2 game; two different Griffons vs. two different Wolverines. But, considering that we have already played a Wolverine vs. Griffon scenario, and we only have one Griffon mini between us, and neither of us want to use cardboard tokens, maybe we should instead have the original Griffon and Wolverine we used in the first game, but we each replace the 2nd mech with another mech of equivalent tonnage? Are mechs of equal tonnage generally considered equivalent to each other in terms of gameplay balance?

We could also play the 4v4 game suggested in the first scenario of the AGoAC rulebook. But how long does this kind of lance vs. lance game generally take? This scenario also states that the game is won when one side cripples[/b] or destroys all mechs on the opposing side. In our first game, we kept playing after both of our mechs were crippled, which might be another reason why our game took so long, so perhaps these crippled mech rules are there to keep the game playable within a reasonable timeframe? If a mech is considered "crippled" under the rules of the scenario on page 48, is it removed from the game immediately, or does it get to fight on if it can do so?

I have also heard of "forced withdrawals", which sounds like a way of keeping games from dragging on for too long. How does that work?

How does ammo work?
I didn't quite understand how ammo works when we played our first game, so we didn't track it. It's not as though we were playing a long-term campaign, after all. When my opponent hit my missile ammo bin, and I read the rules for ammo bin hits, we (I) just assumed that there was probably enough ammo left to wreck my mech and end the game.

So, how does ammo actually work, at least with the pre-made mechs from these two boxed sets? Does each ammo bin on the mech's critical hit table count as a ton of ammo? With each ton giving you the number if shots indicated on page 55 of the AGoAC rulebook? As an example, looking at the Shadow Hawk SHD-2H mech record sheet from the AGoAC box, it's critical hits table shows an AC/5 ammo bin on the left torso, an SRM 2 ammo bin on the center torso, and an LRM 5 ammo bin on the right torso. So, do I record 20 AC/5 shots, 50 SRM 2 shots, and 24 LRM 5 shots in the "Weapons & Equipment Inventory" box on my mech record sheets, subtracting 1 from these bins every time I fire a shot from their respective weapon? And I assume each missile shot is a full salvo of missiles, rather than each individual missile taking up a full shot?

What kind of rules are newbs like us likely to get wrong the first time around?
Like I said earlier, we almost certainly made more mistakes than simply forgetting to track ammo. But we can't know what those mistakes are without a more experienced player helping us. Since you more experienced players couldn't (and probably wouldn't want to) watch us play and see our mistakes for yourselves, could you fill us in on the kinds of mistakes newbs are likely to make?

Sorry for the wall of text, but despite how long our first game took, and the disproportionate amount of time spent flipping through the rulebook, we had a great time, and look forward to trying game #2. I just want to be adequately prepared before I invite my friend for the next game.

as a general guideline crippling damage for the purpose of forced withdrawals would be defined as having the unit damaged to the point that its on the edge of being lost if it takes any more damage. for instance loosing all the armor on an ammo location, any further hits in that location are pretty likely to damage the ammo.  loosing most or all of the primary weapons, such as by weapon damaged, or ammo running out.

as to ammo the best way to look at it is, each ammo bin contains a certain number of shots/reloads, for instance you have a mech with an ac20 like an atlas, hunchback or similar, each bin(ton of ammo) is 5 rounds, so if it has 2 crits (bins) of ammo it would have 10 shots total.  each time an ammunition weapon fires you should mark off 1 shot as being used.
to use another example I believe the wolverine and the shadow hawk, both have an ac5, with 1 ton of ammo (20 shots)
correct with an lrm or srm launcher when you fire it sends out a salvo of the listed size, and then reloads and consumes 1 shot from the ammo counter.

[Sartris]

What kind of rules are newbs like us likely to get wrong the first time around?
Like I said earlier, we almost certainly made more mistakes than simply forgetting to track ammo. But we can't know what those mistakes are without a more experienced player helping us. Since you more experienced players couldn't (and probably wouldn't want to) watch us play and see our mistakes for yourselves, could you fill us in on the kinds of mistakes newbs are likely to make?

funny story - you hang around here long enough and you'll see someone in a thread screaming because they discovered they've been playing a rule wrong for twenty year or more. oh, other people don't scream? that's just me?

here are a few rules i've seen people get wrong (these are the correct rules)

-movement modifier is generated by hexes moved, not movement points used.
-also hexes don't count toward your TMM if you've moved through them already (eg if you walk forward three and back up three, you only get credit for the first three
-when a location with ammo in it is destroyed, the ammo doesn't automatically explode
-An individual PSR must be made for every trigger, but the modifier is cumulative  for all rolls - eg 20+ points of damage in one phase (+1), leg actuator damaged (+1) would be two rolls at +2
-When rolling for heat effects like shutdown, you don't roll for every one - eg if your heat spikes to 18, you don't make two rolls (4+ at 14 and 6+ at 18) - you only roll for the highest instance (in this case just the +6)
-torso twisting does not change armor facing.
-you need two functioning arms to prop and fire when prone
-you can't back up and change elevation
-you can't ever run in water (that includes running and then passing into water during your movement)
-you don't need jumping MP equal to the elevation to jump down. eg you can jump off a level four hill to an adjacent level 0 hex with 1 jumping mp

that's all i can think of for now

[AdmiralObvious]

In the context of ammo explosions (sorry if someone already answered this, I didnt see it if so, and the text is a bit "wally").

A "shot" is one full salvo from the weapon, so a AC/20 has, usually 5 shots per bin. Same holds true for missiles and any other ammo consuming weapon.

If you fire all of your shots off but one, you'll only take internal structure damage of that one shot going off in the bin. So if you (somehow) burn all of your machine gun ammo, save one shot, you'll only take 2 internal damage.

If you have a full ton of MG ammo, that whole bin of 100(!) shots will detonate at once, dealing 200 internal damage to the 'Mech.

This of course changes if you have CASE, but I don't think the introductory set included that (correct me if I'm wrong).

Tracking ammo is important for those reasons.

If you have multiple bins for a single gun, you can also decide which gun takes ammo from where, so say you've got 2 ACs, and a bin for each torso. If you want, both can feed from the left torso (assuming the ammo is the correct size).

The game tends to speed up once you know the rules. I usually play lance vs. lance games versus my friend, it can take a few hours, but usually not more than the long end of 2 hours, assuming we aren't excessively cautious.

[StoneRhino]

A 1v1 game only took as long as it did for a few reasons:
1) You are both new and learning the rules
2) You were fighting in a crippled condition

In a 4 or 5 hour game, once you have learned the rules can play 4v4 to 12v12 or more. Once you know the rules to a competent level the biggest deciding factor in how long a game takes is how quickly you can decide upon your moves. If you are taking 5 minutes to decide to move, only to change your move a few times, then the game is going to take a lot longer then if you have decided on where you are going and sticking with it. You might pay the price for sticking with that decision, but in the long term you'll come out ahead as you'll likely learn more then those that take far more time.

Ammo is fairly straight forward, each time you use a particular weapon, you look for the ammo bin and mark a round off. For example, lets say you have an ac20. If your mech also has 2 tons of ammo you end up with 10 shots. Each ton of Ac20 ammo is worth 5 shots each. Each ton of ammo has it's own ammo bin, which is 1 slot on the mech's record sheet. When you fire a shot from your ac20 you look for an ammo bin/slot and mark 1 round off. You get to decide which bin you pull that round from. This means that you can pick a bin and just drain it without caring, pick a different bin each time to reduce the explosive potential of all bins, or you could use the bin in the torso location that has lost armor until it is depleted so you remove that risk of being hit with a critical there.

When a critical hit does hit a bin with ammo still in it, you count how many rounds remain and multiply that by the damage per shot that the associated weapon does. If an Ac20 ammo bin has 4 shots left in it and it struck by a critical hit, that is 4 rounds x20 damage= 80 damage in that section, which is applied to that location. If damage remains, that gets transferred the the next location going towards the center torso until the damage has been fully absorbed.

[Slate]

as a general guideline crippling damage for the purpose of forced withdrawals would be defined as having the unit damaged to the point that its on the edge of being lost if it takes any more damage. for instance loosing all the armor on an ammo location, any further hits in that location are pretty likely to damage the ammo.  loosing most or all of the primary weapons, such as by weapon damaged, or ammo running out.

What happens then? Are crippled mechs and other mechs forced to withdraw simply pulled off the table? Perhaps my google-fu is weak, but I haven't been able to find the actual rules for forced withdrawal, but from what I've read on the web so far, they sound important despite not being mentioned in the AGoAC rulebook.

here are a few rules i've seen people get wrong (these are the correct rules)

-movement modifier is generated by hexes moved, not movement points used.
-also hexes don't count toward your TMM if you've moved through them already (eg if you walk forward three and back up three, you only get credit for the first three
-when a location with ammo in it is destroyed, the ammo doesn't automatically explode
-An individual PSR must be made for every trigger, but the modifier is cumulative  for all rolls - eg 20+ points of damage in one phase (+1), leg actuator damaged (+1) would be two rolls at +2
-When rolling for heat effects like shutdown, you don't roll for every one - eg if your heat spikes to 18, you don't make two rolls (4+ at 14 and 6+ at 18) - you only roll for the highest instance (in this case just the +6)
-torso twisting does not change armor facing.
-you need two functioning arms to prop and fire when prone
-you can't back up and change elevation
-you can't ever run in water (that includes running and then passing into water during your movement)
-you don't need jumping MP equal to the elevation to jump down. eg you can jump off a level four hill to an adjacent level 0 hex with 1 jumping mp

Well, we got 1, 2, 3, 5 and 6 right in our first game, and the rest of these points didn't come up. So far so good!

In the context of ammo explosions (sorry if someone already answered this, I didnt see it if so, and the text is a bit "wally").

A "shot" is one full salvo from the weapon, so a AC/20 has, usually 6 shots per bin.

Page 55 of the AGoAC rulebook says that an AC/20 gets 5 shots per bin, not 6. Am I missing something? 1 bin equals 1 ton, right?

This of course changes if you have CASE, but I don't think the introductory set included that (correct me if I'm wrong).

If I understand correctly, these sets take place relatively early in the timeline, before the clan wars that introduced more advanced technology like CASE

The game tends to speed up once you know the rules. I usually play lance vs. lance games versus my friend, it can take a few hours, but usually not more than the long end of 2 hours, assuming we aren't excessively cautious.

It's good to know that it's perfectly feasible to do a lance vs. lance game in one session. That first game we played probably only took as long as it did because we were both learning, and there were alot of distractions. Also, no crippled mechs/forced withdrawal rules. This makes me think that maybe we should jump straight into the 1st scenario of AGoAC for our 2nd game, which is lance vs. lance, rather than play a modified Beginner Box scenario with 2 mechs per side instead of 1.

[Slate]

A 1v1 game only took as long as it did for a few reasons:
1) You are both new and learning the rules
2) You were fighting in a crippled condition

In a 4 or 5 hour game, once you have learned the rules can play 4v4 to 12v12 or more. Once you know the rules to a competent level the biggest deciding factor in how long a game takes is how quickly you can decide upon your moves.

Good to know. I expect our next game to go much faster now that I have a good grip on the basics, at least.

Ammo is fairly straight forward, each time you use a particular weapon, you look for the ammo bin and mark a round off. For example, lets say you have an ac20. If your mech also has 2 tons of ammo you end up with 10 shots. Each ton of Ac20 ammo is worth 5 shots each.

Each ton of AC2O is worth 5 shots each? Thanks for clearing that up. I think I have ammo figured out now. I thought I had ammo all figured out, until AdmiralObvious said that AC20 bins have 6 shots each. This had me doubting myself, but if you say that AC20 bins have 5 shots each, just like the manual says, I'll assume that the 6 was a typo on AdmiralObvious' part.

[guardiandashi]

Good to know. I expect our next game to go much faster now that I have a good grip on the basics, at least.

Each ton of AC2O is worth 5 shots each? Thanks for clearing that up. I think I have ammo figured out now. I thought I had ammo all figured out, until AdmiralObvious said that AC20 bins have 6 shots each. This had me doubting myself, but if you say that AC20 bins have 5 shots each, just like the manual says, I'll assume that the 6 was a typo on AdmiralObvious' part.

captain obvious made a number of errors
ac 20's are 5 rounds per ton as mentioned.  machine gun ammo is 2 damage/shot not 1

forced withdrawal if triggered, basically means the unit immediately needs to start heading towards the nearest safe map edge to retreat.

[AdmiralObvious]

captain obvious made a number of errors
ac 20's are 5 rounds per ton as mentioned.  machine gun ammo is 2 damage/shot not 1

forced withdrawal if triggered, basically means the unit immediately needs to start heading towards the nearest safe map edge to retreat.

Yeah, I was on break at work writing that post. Mixed up the LRM-20 with the AC/20, but the point still stands.

Forced withdrawal doesn't neccesarily mean you have to disengage completely. Backing up and still shooting back with what you have left is considered acceptable, as long as you get closer to your home map edge. The rule is optional, of course. All it means is that you would try to actually get away, and you've got to move at least one hex closer to your side each turn.

[Liam's Ghost]

One scenario idea I might suggest, pulled from an earlier version of the boxed set.

Each side takes two mechs. One medium weight (Wolverine, Griffin, or Shadow Hawk), the other light (locust or commando).

The winner is the first side to destroy either of the opponent's mechs.

I like this scenario because it forces you to think about more than just killing the other guy. It also makes you think about preserving your own forces. When to take risks with your more fragile unit. When to duck behind cover.

Also it was the first scenario my brother and I played way back last century. Before we had good internet, and when boy bands roamed the earth. It has a special place in my heart.

[Slate]

One scenario idea I might suggest, pulled from an earlier version of the boxed set.

Each side takes two mechs. One medium weight (Wolverine, Griffin, or Shadow Hawk), the other light (locust or commando).

The winner is the first side to destroy either of the opponent's mechs.

Thanks for the suggestion, this might very well be the scenario we go with for our 2nd game, if my opponent agrees. Perhaps we'll play it on the grass side of the mapsheet from the beginner box, since we've used the desert side already, and I'm thinking of maybe saving elevation and water terrain rules for a 3rd game in the future.

So, is tonnage generally what we look at when trying to make a scenario that's balanced for both sides?  Each side should have the same number of mechs per side, and if one side has two mechs that weigh X tons, another that weighs Y tons, and another that weighs Z tons, the other side should have two X, a Y, and a Z tonnage mech as well? Or does tonnage work similiar to point values from a certain other popular miniatures wargame, where both sides agree to a certain number of tons/points, and we can distribute those tons/points how we please? I assume that one 50-ton mech won't be significantly weaker or stronger than another 50-ton mech, but would two 25-ton mechs equal one 50-ton mech for game balance purposes?

[AdmiralObvious]

Tonnage is the simplest way to go about doing balance.

If you want, you can try looking at the "Battle Value" of each unit, and use that as a balancing factor. Like, a 100 ton Mech with only machine guns is going to be way less effective than a 30 tonner with a laser boat setup. You'd usually have them listed somewhere on a unit card, but I'm pretty sure the intro box doesn't have that either. It's a formula to show roughly how "good" the unit would be in combat, and it ties pilot skill (and other equipment) into the mix, so it's better than straight tonnage in most cases.

[guardiandashi]

Thanks for the suggestion, this might very well be the scenario we go with for our 2nd game, if my opponent agrees. Perhaps we'll play it on the grass side of the mapsheet from the beginner box, since we've used the desert side already, and I'm thinking of maybe saving elevation and water terrain rules for a 3rd game in the future.

So, is tonnage generally what we look at when trying to make a scenario that's balanced for both sides?  Each side should have the same number of mechs per side, and if one side has two mechs that weigh X tons, another that weighs Y tons, and another that weighs Z tons, the other side should have two X, a Y, and a Z tonnage mech as well? Or does tonnage work similiar to point values from a certain other popular miniatures wargame, where both sides agree to a certain number of tons/points, and we can distribute those tons/points how we please? I assume that one 50-ton mech won't be significantly weaker or stronger than another 50-ton mech, but would two 25-ton mechs equal one 50-ton mech for game balance purposes?

Tonnage can be used as a balancing method, but like any other method it has some rather major flaws, its main advantage is its simple.
the problem you will rapidly discover is that tonnage as a balancing method is horribly flawed. under tonnage balancing an awesome, charger, zeus, goliath, thug, hamato's etc all are valued the same and yet their actual performance varies dramatically.

battlevalue (BV 2) while it still has some issues is much better, because it considers the actual battlefield performance.

[Mattlov]

Another thing about ammo:  When you mark ammo used, make sure you mark out of which ammo bin it comes out of if you have more than 1 ton.  An empty ammo bin (all shots fired) can still suffer a critical hit, but has no effect on you!  Free damage soak!

[mbear]

An important point about missile ammo internal explosions: The formula is (warhead damage * Remaining salvos * Launcher size)= damage from critical hit explosion.

An LRM-15 can fire 15 missiles 8 times in the game. If you fire it three times and the bin gets hit, you'll suffer (1*5*15=) 75 points of damage.

An SRM-6 fires six missiles 15 times. Again, if you fire it three times and the bin gets hit, you'll suffer (2 * 12 * 6 =) 144 points of damage.

[Ryker]

My friend and I did our first lance on lance game, and it took us roughly 7 hours but we didn’t do the forced withdraw or scenarios but used the BV listed on the record sheets in AGoAC. That was using the desert map with elevations and PSRs, adding more rules as we go and grasp general concepts. After the game we decided next time we will use forced withdrawal rules to speed things up the best we can but we were planning moves and double checking rules here and there. To compare it took us 3ish hours to play the one on one like you did with full rules. It does speed up the more you play. Our key idea from last game was to use up your ammo as fast as you can XD.

[garhkal]

We could also play the 4v4 game suggested in the first scenario of the AGoAC rulebook. But how long does this kind of lance vs. lance game generally take? This scenario also states that the game is won when one side cripples[/b] or destroys all mechs on the opposing side. In our first game, we kept playing after both of our mechs were crippled, which might be another reason why our game took so long, so perhaps these crippled mech rules are there to keep the game playable within a reasonable timeframe? If a mech is considered "crippled" under the rules of the scenario on page 48, is it removed from the game immediately, or does it get to fight on if it can do so?

IMO for newer folks, i say keep it small, 1vs 1 or 2vs 2..  Once you get used to the rules, say after half a dozen games, then you could look at going 4vs4.

I have also heard of "forced withdrawals", which sounds like a way of keeping games from dragging on for too long. How does that work?

IIRC< if mech team A is fighting mech team B, and you agreed for the "Forced with drawl" two of 3 mechs each side must be out of commission, or you are internal damage on 3 locations or more, then once that 'goal' is reached, that side must flee..
How does ammo work?

I didn't quite understand how ammo works when we played our first game, so we didn't track it. It's not as though we were playing a long-term campaign, after all. When my opponent hit my missile ammo bin, and I read the rules for ammo bin hits, we (I) just assumed that there was probably enough ammo left to wreck my mech and end the game.

So, how does ammo actually work, at least with the pre-made mechs from these two boxed sets? Does each ammo bin on the mech's critical hit table count as a ton of ammo? With each ton giving you the number if shots indicated on page 55 of the AGoAC rulebook? As an example, looking at the Shadow Hawk SHD-2H mech record sheet from the AGoAC box, it's critical hits table shows an AC/5 ammo bin on the left torso, an SRM 2 ammo bin on the center torso, and an LRM 5 ammo bin on the right torso. So, do I record 20 AC/5 shots, 50 SRM 2 shots, and 24 LRM 5 shots in the "Weapons & Equipment Inventory" box on my mech record sheets, subtracting 1 from these bins every time I fire a shot from their respective weapon? And I assume each missile shot is a full salvo of missiles, rather than each individual missile taking up a full shot?

Yes each ammo slot represents one ton of ammo.  And each 'shot' of ammo for that specific launcher, represents 1 FULL salvo for missiles, or 1 shot for an auto-cannon/gauss rifle.
So if you had a standard AC-5 totin wolverine, with 2 slots of ammo, each ton being 20 shots... that equates to 2 tons each ton being 40 shots
Or for an LRM-5 with 24 shots, that's only 1 ton of ammo (hence one slot). 
Shoot it for 3 rounds, you mark which ammo bin those shots came from.  Some prefer spreading them out to all, others prefer draining 1 bin first.. 
If say you had a mech with 2 launchers but 1 ton of ammo, each launcher would draw from the same ammo bin, so firing both launchers use up 2 'shots' worth of the load that ammo bin contains. 

[Sartris]

This is where the Kraken 3 really shines. It drains those ammo bins as fast as college kids with beer at a rager

[Slate]

Well, I think I have ammo pretty much figured out now. The main thing that was tripping me up was not knowing how much ammo was in a bin. I knew that each weapon that requires ammo would have 1 or more ammo bins, and that each ton of ammo = a specific number of shots as defined on page 55 of the rules, but I didn't see anything in the rulebook stating how many tons was in a bin, which I now know is exactly 1 ton per bin (how convenient!). I'm sure the rulebook probably does state somewhere that 1 bin = 1 ton of ammo, but I must have glazed over it while my brain was still busy trying to figure out some other complicated aspect of the rules, like perhaps trying to remember how all 7 different types of melee attacks work.

I have ammo figured out, but now I have a couple of questions about weapons. On a mech record sheet, what do the letters in parentheses next to a weapons damage number represent? It looks like laser weapons have [DE] next to the damage number, missiles have [M,C,S], etc. I'm sure the answer is something forehead-slappingly obvious.

I'm also curious as to how flamers work. I didn't see the rules for them in the rulebook, but at least one of the mech sheets in the AGoAC box shows a flamer equipped.

Tonnage is the simplest way to go about doing balance.

If you want, you can try looking at the "Battle Value" of each unit, and use that as a balancing factor. Like, a 100 ton Mech with only machine guns is going to be way less effective than a 30 tonner with a laser boat setup. You'd usually have them listed somewhere on a unit card, but I'm pretty sure the intro box doesn't have that either. It's a formula to show roughly how "good" the unit would be in combat, and it ties pilot skill (and other equipment) into the mix, so it's better than straight tonnage in most cases.

Tonnage can be used as a balancing method, but like any other method it has some rather major flaws, its main advantage is its simple.
the problem you will rapidly discover is that tonnage as a balancing method is horribly flawed. under tonnage balancing an awesome, charger, zeus, goliath, thug, hamato's etc all are valued the same and yet their actual performance varies dramatically.

battlevalue (BV 2) while it still has some issues is much better, because it considers the actual battlefield performance.

So, Battle Value is the standard way to balance a game? Like points values in a certain other miniatures war game?

Thanks for all the helpful replies so far everyone!

[Lorcan Nagle]

I have ammo figured out, but now I have a couple of questions about weapons. On a mech record sheet, what do the letters in parentheses next to a weapons damage number represent? It looks like laser weapons have [DE] next to the damage number, missiles have [M,C,S], etc. I'm sure the answer is something forehead-slappingly obvious.

Those codes are clarifying the type of damage.  For the most part they don't come into play during Introductory level games, or are explained slightly differently in the book. In these cases DE stands for direct energy.  M, C, S stands for Missile, Cluster, Single - being that the damage type is missile, you roll on the cluster table to see how many missiles hit, and you roll individually to see where the missiles hit.

I'm also curious as to how flamers work. I didn't see the rules for them in the rulebook, but at least one of the mech sheets in the AGoAC box shows a flamer equipped.

At introductory levels flamers work the same as any other weapon, but under the full rules they do more damage to infantry than many other 'Mech weapons, and can be used to push up an enemy's heat levels instead of doing damage,

So, Battle Value is the standard way to balance a game? Like points values in a certain other miniatures war game?

BV is BattleTech's equivalent of points in other Wargames, yeah.  But BattleTech is explicitly a sandbox game and explicitly states you're free to figure out your games whatever way you want - BV is a tool provided to use if you want. 

That said, BV is a very common way to balance games - my group use it almost exclusively - and if you want to use a balancing mechanic it's the best/least worst one available.

(edited to strike out bits I got wrong)

[mbear]

I have ammo figured out, but now I have a couple of questions about weapons. On a mech record sheet, what do the letters in parentheses next to a weapons damage number represent? It looks like laser weapons have [DE] next to the damage number, missiles have [M,C,S], etc. I'm sure the answer is something forehead-slappingly obvious.

Not exactly. Some of them are obvious, but not all of them. For example I always thought E meant Equipment. It really means Electronics.

Here's a list that has the code, two word description, and an example.
* AE: Area-Effect Weapon. Basically artillery or artillery-like systems that inflict damage to one or more hexes.
* C: Cluster Weapon. Use cluster hit table to resolve attacks. LB-X autocannon, missiles.
* DE/DB: Direct-Fire Energy or Ballistic Weapon. Your standard lasers, cannons, and other guns.
* P: Pulse Weapon. An energy "submachine gun" that fires a bunch of smaller energy pulses instead of a single beam. Helps with to hit rolls. Pulse laser family.
* H: Heat-Causing Weapon. Can add to a 'Mech's heat scale. Flamers, Plasma Rifle.
* M: Missiles. I think it's self explanatory.
* R: Rapid-Fire. Weapon can fire more than one shot per turn, but could fail if it does so. Rotary and Ultra ACs.
* V: Variable Damage: The weapon inflicts different damages at different ranges. Snub-nose PPC inflicts 10 at short range, 8 at medium, 5 at long.
* AI: Anti-Infantry: Extra damage inflicted to conventional infantry. Machine Guns, Flamers, small pulse lasers.
* OS: One-Shot Weapon. Exactly what it sounds like. Shoot it once and then it's gone. Rocket Launchers, One Shot Missile systems.
* PD: Point-Blank Weapon. You have to be right next to your opponent to use this.
* E: Electronics. ECM suites, probes, C3 systems.
* T: Targeting System. Allows your weapons to reduce targeting penalties. Targeting computer and MG arrays.
* S: Switchable Ammo. Weapon can use different ammo types. For 'Mechs, each ammo type must be equipped by the ton. Missile launchers and autocannons.
* PE: Performance Enhancement. Makes the 'Mech work better. Usually it's an increase in speed, but certain systems can offset piloting errors as well. MASC, Supercharger, Triple Strength Myomer, Actuator Enhancement System (AES).
* F: Flak. Capable of inflicting more damage on fighters, VTOLs, etc.
* X: Explosive Weapon. The weapon will explode when subjected to a critical hit. Gauss Rifles.

These modifiers/codes can stack, too. So most missile launchers have [M,C,S] because they're Missile launchers that use the Cluster hit table and can Switch ammo types.

I'm also curious as to how flamers work. I didn't see the rules for them in the rulebook, but at least one of the mech sheets in the AGoAC box shows a flamer equipped.

IIRC they can inflict either damage or heat on an enemy 'Mech. They only inflict damage to other unit types. I could be wrong though and will probably be corrected shortly by someone. ;)

So, Battle Value is the standard way to balance a game? Like points values in a certain other miniatures war game?

Generally, yes. It's not perfect but it's decent. If the match is set prior to 3050 a lot of players balance forces by tonnage.

Thanks for all the helpful replies so far everyone!

[Matti]

I have a vital question here: is rule book in A Game of Armored Combat a reprint of Introductory Rulebook from older box sets? If there are differences, what are they? Anything rule specific?

I'm sure the rulebook probably does state somewhere that 1 bin = 1 ton of ammo, but I must have glazed over it while my brain was still busy trying to figure out some other complicated aspect of the rules

That is written at least in TechManual. It also mentions exceptions: machine gun ammo can come in ½ ton lots.

* X: Explosive Weapon. The weapon will explode when subjected to a critical hit. Gauss Rifles.

Why does RS3039 Unabridged have it on PPC?

[NeonKnight]

* PD: Point-Blank Weapon. You have to be right next to your opponent to use this.

Actually, it is PB not PD ;)

[RoundTop]

Why does RS3039 Unabridged have it on PPC?

Not sure, but my guess is for the TacOps rules for PPCs with disengaged safeties (to remove minimum range).

[nckestrel]

Looks like an error at the time they were created.
AWS-9Q from RS 3050Uu doesn't have Xs on the PPCs.
BLK-NT-2Y from RS3145u doesn't have an X on it's PPC either.

[Xotl]

Actually, it is PB not PD ;)

Until very recently it was PD, which is annoying because not only do the letters not match up, but people naturally assume PD means Point Defense.  It was changed for the BMM and the 5th printing of TW (for those reasons).

[NeonKnight]

Until very recently it was PD, which is annoying because not only do the letters not match up, but people naturally assume PD means Point Defense.  It was changed for the BMM and the 5th printing of TW (for those reasons).

Well...Color me corrected.

[massey]

With the introductory levels of technology, most of the weapon codes won't ever come into play.  You can also balance by tonnage pretty easily.  Some mechs will be underpowered, some will be really efficient, but you should generally be in the right ballpark, with the exception of a handful of mechs that either really suck or are really awesome (like the Awesome).

Battle Value is a more complicated system, and it certainly has its flaws, but it really becomes more useful when one player is using intro tech levels and another is using some of the really advanced stuff.  One of the factions in the later game would be the Clans, genetically engineered supersoldiers who use supertech.  When they first appeared they were so unbalanced that they could slaughter the crap out of everything, even outnumbered two or three to one.  At least one member of your group will fall in love with playing Clan machines once they see them.  Battle Value helps counter that, since Clan mechs all have extremely high point values.

[mbear]

Until very recently it was PD, which is annoying because not only do the letters not match up, but people naturally assume PD means Point Defense.  It was changed for the BMM and the 5th printing of TW (for those reasons).

And I just noticed in XTRO:Steiner that the modular armor on the Banshee has a code of E. So maybe E was changed to Equipment. (Unless there's some fancy pants new modular armor that's also an antenna.)

[Matti]

I have a vital question here: is rule book in A Game of Armored Combat a reprint of Introductory Rulebook from older box sets? If there are differences, what are they? Anything rule specific?

Seriously, hasn't anyone made comparison yet? Do I need to go out to buy 3rd box set to find it out?

[Sartris]

It’s based on the BMM rather than TW so the wording is different but the rules are consistent with all TW-derived boxes going back to 2007

[Matti]

It’s based on the BMM rather than TW so the wording is different but the rules are consistent with all TW-derived boxes going back to 2007

But it is full set of rules for 'Mechs in TRO3025, right? Not simplified Quick-Start Rules, right?

[nckestrel]

But it is full set of rules for 'Mechs in TRO3025, right? Not simplified Quick-Start Rules, right?

The Beginner Box has the simplified rules, but the AGoAC has the same breadth of rules the intro boxes have had.

[Xotl]

It's been rewritten and reorganized compared to the previous box set, but other than errata changes is the same rules.

If I had more time I'd do up a comparison, but I'm afraid I just don't.

[Slate]

This will probably be my last question before me and my friend play our 2nd game of Battletech tomorrow. Is one map sheet big enough for a 2 on 2 game? I was thinking of waiting for our 3rd game before introducing elevation and water rules, which means using the mapsheet that comes with the beginner box, and it only comes with 1.

[Sartris]

you can play a 1 map 2 vs 2 game, sure. the tactics change as you increase map size. on small maps, units that rely on range don't have a ton of room to back up and will easily get cornered. the bigger the map gets, the more a liability slow speed and short weapon ranges become.

[AdmiralObvious]

I would recommend a few map sheets. If only for the fact that weapon ranges are pretty much nonexistent otherwise, with the exception of 3 tile weapons.

Ideally, you should have a 30x30 board if possible, but you can work with less, or more. Depends on how you want to play.

A bigger board does usually mean a slightly longer game though.

[rebs]

Lots of highly articulate new players lately.  Welcome to BT and good luck in your games!

[Slate]

you can play a 1 map 2 vs 2 game, sure. the tactics change as you increase map size. on small maps, units that rely on range don't have a ton of room to back up and will easily get cornered. the bigger the map gets, the more a liability slow speed and short weapon ranges become.

I would recommend a few map sheets. If only for the fact that weapon ranges are pretty much nonexistent otherwise, with the exception of 3 tile weapons.

Ideally, you should have a 30x30 board if possible, but you can work with less, or more. Depends on how you want to play.

A bigger board does usually mean a slightly longer game though.

Hmm. Now I can't decide between playing on a beginner box map and keeping it simple but small, or playing on 2 maps (meaning I'd have to introduce elevation and water rules) and having longer ranges to play with. Even in our previous 1 on 1 game, we ended up duking it out all over the small map.

This would be easier if my opponent would actually read his own copy of the rulebook so we could learn the game TOGETHER, instead of me reading the rules on my own and then trying to teach him a game that I'm just learning to play myself.  ::)  I asked him to at least skim over parts of the rules that were still fuzzy to him after the first game, but instead I see him on Steam currently playing Mechwarrior Online... sigh.

Lots of highly articulate new players lately.  Welcome to BT and good luck in your games!

Thank you for the welcome and the compliment! I don't think I've ever been called "articulate" before.  :P

If there seems to be an influx of new players recently, it's probably because there's not just two new boxes for CBT, but the videogames are being pushed pretty hard right now too. My friend won't shut up about Mechwarrior Online and his anticipation for Mechwarrior 5. Hearing him talk about these games reminded me of playing the Battletech CCG as a kid, remembering that it seemed like a pretty cool universe, and that there was more to it than a CCG, videogames, and a cheesy cartoon. So I looked into CBT, found that there were new and highly-anticipated boxed sets coming in less than a week, and jumped on that. I read an article somewhere saying that 2018 was supposed to be "the year of Battletech", with each different kind of game helping to promote the others. I'm sure the scenario between me and my friend here was EXACTLY the kind of thing the marketing department was hoping for.

[Sartris]

I’d say right now learning the rules is the most important piece. Small maps = more shooting faster so that’s an ok way to go

Optimal for normal gameplay isn’t always the same as optimal for learning

[Fat Guy]

This will probably be my last question before me and my friend play our 2nd game of Battletech tomorrow. Is one map sheet big enough for a 2 on 2 game? I was thinking of waiting for our 3rd game before introducing elevation and water rules, which means using the mapsheet that comes with the beginner box, and it only comes with 1.

If one of those 'Mechs is going to be the Griffin, one map is going to screw it over. Especially the open terrain from the Beginner Box. It will be quite easy for it's opponents to get inside it's minimum range.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

If one of those 'Mechs is going to be the Griffin, one map is going to screw it over. Especially the open terrain from the Beginner Box. It will be quite easy for it's opponents to get inside it's minimum range.

As Sartris was saying: learning things the hard way isn't necessarily a bad thing. You'll never learn how to use a Griffin quite like if you suffer through having an opponent up in its grill.

[Crimson Dawn]

The beginner box comes with 2 different griffin variants and one is the l with arge and medium lasers so you could choose to use that one on a smaller map.

[AdmiralObvious]

You're going to have to learn elevations and water eventually. It's not incredibly difficult. If there's 2 height above the ground level of your 'Mech, line of sight is blocked. If they're parked behind a 1 height hill, they have partial cover, and you can only hit above the legs. Same holds true for 1 depth water that they stand in. Playing with a Griffin on a small map will be a challenge, but it is a bit of a fun experience to pull off successfully for the first time.

Aa for all of the new digital content... it's about time. The last Mechwarrior game came out in, what '02? MWO is fine for what it is, but I don't like the way they've done their payment model for the game at all, plus I can't run it on my toaster.

[Slate]

First thing's first, I apologize profusely for abandoning my own topic for so long! Rest assured though, I'm still quite interested in the game, and I'm still wanting to chat about it with all you more experienced folks.

It was over a month ago now, but I did in fact play that 2nd game with that friend. We decided to use 2 map sheets, and since we both own a copy of AGoAC, we decided to use the same map sheet on both sides, one from his box and one from mine, to make for perfectly balanced terrain. That way, if he spilled his beer, he'd be more likely to ruin his own map sheet than mine, and vice versa!

This means that we did introduce elevation rules this time around. It went well for the most part, but there was one situation where line of sight wasn't clear. I wish I took a photo, because my memory of exactly what went down is unclear, but basically, my opponent's mech was up on lv2 terrain, firing at my mech on lv0 terrain, but he wasn't "at the edge of the cliff". He was at least 2 hexes from the edge. So we weren't sure if his mech's line of sight would be blocked by the cliff or not.

We opted for a 2 on 2 scenario very similar to the one suggested by Liam's Ghost, the only difference being that both mechs on one side needed to be destroyed to end the game, instead of just one as suggested. I'm glad we chose that variant, because I made the mistake of leaving my Locust in the open for a turn! It went from perfect health to completely destroyed in one round of shooting from both of my opponent's mechs, and from sheer damage too, no ammo explosions required. Lesson learned! Thankfully, he later made the mistake of allowing my lonely Wolverine to maneuver behind his Shadow Hawk. I landed a lucky crit on his gyroscope, his Shadow Hawk fell, and I then proceeded to recreate the famous scene from American History X, turning the game in my favour. I thought I was gonna lose after losing my Locust so early, but I ended up winning in the end.

I suspect we did PSRs incorrectly though. I'll have to review the rules on those more thoroughly before our next game next weekend.

Again, I'm sorry for abandoning my topic here for so long, but I've been busy preparing for the next game! I'm taking this somewhat seriously. Those last two games, I was paranoid about damaging those flimsy paper map sheets, so I went to one of the local copy shops, and got full-size full-colour copies of all 6 of my map sheets on Duracopy. So, instead of 3 double sided map sheets on fragile paper, I have 6 single sided map sheets on a nice waterproof (beerproof) material that doesn't rip easily, and lays flat even after being rolled up in a tube for over a month. I'm sure there was a more economical option, but screw it, I'm really happy with these copies and look forward to using them in my next game, and keeping my paper master copies safely tucked away in the box. Even the texture feels nicer when sliding my minis around on it!

In both of my previous games, there were tricky line of sight situations that were hard to judge. Is the corner of that woods hex impeding line of sight, or isn't it? So I picked up a laser level! Specifically, the The Army Painter Target Lock. I'm pretty happy with this thing, and look forward to busting it out when the inevitable LOS issue turns up in our next game.

This friend of mine that I've been playing with is actually a coworker. An older guy that we work with apparently used to be into the game in his younger years. So, upon hearing us talk about Battletech at work, he loaned me his Battletech Technical Readout 2750. I've only skimmed through it so far, but it's very cool indeed! In fact, so far I'm really loving the Battletech lore! Holy ****ing shit, there is a ****-ton of it! Far too much for me to truly grasp at this point. But I've been putting youtube lore videos on in the background while I do housework etc. I think it's amazing that the mechs themselves, while being the obvious focal point of the lore and games, are literally the most fantastical part of the lore, while most everything else is actually somewhat believable and realistic, at least compared to other popular sci-fi universes like Star Wars, Star Trek, and WH40K. I like that there are no sentient alien races, that humanity is it's own worst enemy. I like that we still squabble over stupid **** like race and religion, as well as somewhat-less-stupid squabbles over territory and resources. I like that these religions, apart from the Word Of Blake, are the same dumbassed religions from our time, as depressing as it is. And it's a more realistic kind of depressing than the grimdark setting of 40k. I like its focus on politics, and how the lore is told as though it's the future of our own timeline. I like the story of the Cameron dynasty, and the Amaris wars. I especially like that one of the most important battles of Battletech's early history took place on Vancouver Island, my home, and that the nearby Puget Sound was the location of the capital of the Star League. I'm probably getting details wrong, as there is just so much to learn, but I'm definitely interested in the lore and looking forward to diving deeper.

This post is practically turning into an essay, so I'll keep my last few questions brief.

I plan on introducing more people to the game. What is a good, simple, balanced 1 on 1 scenario that uses the minis (not the cardboard mech tokens) and maps that come with the Beginners Box and AGoAC, but uses the full rules as opposed to the beginner rules? As I detailed in my very first post, me and my friend did the Wolverine vs Griffon scenario from the Beginners Box using the full ruleset, but as others in this topic have stated, the Griffon is at a disadvantage. That might explain why I lost that first game. Can you give suggestions for a better scenario than the one from the Beginners Box?

My Catapault mini has a fault. The missile launchers on it's shoulders are not level. How do I go about getting a replacement? I have my original receipt. I know it can be fixed with some modelling know-how, but I'm not so good at that kind of thing, and I'd love to get a 2nd Catapault if I can. I could just paint this one to look like the discrepancy is caused by battle damage, but I'd like a normal one as well.

Speaking of painting, I'm no artist, but I might eventually want to paint these minis. As a kid in my early teens, I had some interest in miniatures games, so I know a BIT about painting, but I was never actually good at it. I just slapped some colour on my archers and my space marines so they'd at least look a little better than grey plastic, but considering this game involves massive robots that are probably mostly one colour anyways, simply slapping some colour on it is probably not good enough. What is the absolute easiest way to make them not look like complete **** and doesn't require skill or talent? And far more importantly, what colours do I paint them? I've put some time into learning about the lore, but I still have no idea what faction I should go with, as I don't know how that will limit my mech selection, among other considerations. Perhaps I should just use a custom colour scheme, call them mercenaries or something, and make my own backstory, altering that backstory as I learn more about the lore to make them fit in better with that lore? Would that give me more mech options? I'm a little lost to be honest. Though, to also be honest, I'm not sure I will ever get around to painting them, so don't put too much effort into your reply on this matter. At least the idea of painting 4-10 mechs is a whole lot less daunting than the idea of painting that goblin army that's been sitting in my closet for years...

Sorry about the sloppy nature of this post. I ought to edit it to make it more readable, organized, and succinct, but I've spent too much of my Saturday on it already. However, I value any input that I can get from you Battletech veterans.

[Syzyx]

As for a simple, balanced, intro scenario I'd recommend a 2 on 2 matchup with both sides having the same two mechs. Preferably mediums for a bit of durability and avoiding annoying target movement modifiers at first. Like Wolverine and Shadow Hawk vs same.

As for the issue with your Catapult: customerservice@catalystgamelabs.com
Email, wait a bit. They are slow but I have never had an issue that wasn't addressed in full.

For colours/factions, don't sweat it. Until you get into the Clan Invasion or the Jihad everybody gets everything. So paint all your stuff up in your favorite colour and then work out what unit you like in that scheme.

Like red? The Draconis Combine! Hate space samurai but still like red? The Robinson Rangers of the Federated Suns are right there for you! The BattleTech universe is so established and nuanced that you can find anything you want with only a little finagling.

To help:

http://camospecs.com
and
https://unitcolorcompendium.com

[Daryk]

One other piece of good news for you: two more posts, and you won't have to prove you're human anymore...  ^-^

[RoundTop]

Good news!  Your catapult isn't broken. This is a common issue in plastics that are pre - assembled and you can fix it in about 5 minutes.

Supplies:
Two bowls, one able to handle hot water
Kettle (or saucepan)
Paper towel
Tweezers (optional)

Here you go:
#1: filled one bowl with cold water, lay out your paper towel beside it
#2: boil water
#3: put boiling water in second bowl (about 1" deep) (you can just do this in a saucepan if you don't have a Kettle, but I recommend the bowl)
#4: hold catapult by the base and hold the bent parts in the water for about 30s.
#5: pull it out and gently bend the launches to level. Once you have it where you are happy
#6: dip it into cold water for 30s. This sets the plastic again.
#7: dry and let cool completely

Tweezers can be used to move the pieces if you find it too hot.

Old hobby trick for when this happens
 The plastic can over time take a shape from the box, and this allows the plastic to reset (also works great for if it was assembled slightly askew.)

There, saved you a few weeks of waiting.
Note: mold issues where it is missing plastic will need a replacement.

[Kovax]

The line of sight issue earlier involved a unit 2 levels higher firing on a unit NOT adjacent to a 2 level dead zone.  There was line of sight.  If the target had been adjacent to the 2 level cliff, it could have hugged the cliff face and been in complete cover, but one hex away from the cover and it's a clear shot.  There are optional rules for line of sight and partial cover, but they're a bit too complex in a beginner game, and probably too complex for any "casual" game, except between hard-core rules lawyers.

Basically, BV2 is the standard balancing mechanism between asymmetrical forces and most tournaments, but does not account for the suitability of a unit for the terrain it's being used in.  Putting a 'Mech with long-range weapons in a phone booth sized battlefield makes its high point value ranged weapons ineffective.  Classic example would be a Hunchback against a Griffin on a single map sheet, where the Griffin will have serious difficulty maintaining enough range to avoid minimum range penalties, and usually lose badly.  Give it a 2x2 mapsheet battlefield or larger, and it has the potential to demolish the Hunchback without taking a point of damage in return.  BV doesn't reflect that.

Tonnage, C-Bill costs, die rolls on random assignment tables (see Xotl's RATs), and other balancing mechanisms all have their advantages and disadvantages in certain situations.  Other balancing techniques involve picking out a bunch of "similarly effective" units, and then randomly choosing from the pile, or having the first player create two forces, and the second player then gets to pick which of the two forces he prefers to run, making it beneficial for the first player to keep the sides as equal as possible.  Many scenarios are set up with asymmetrical forces but asymmetrical victory conditions, so the more powerful side is hard-pressed to achieve its objectives in time, or without failing some other condition.  There is no "standard" way to balance a game.

[Slate]

As for a simple, balanced, intro scenario I'd recommend a 2 on 2 matchup with both sides having the same two mechs. Preferably mediums for a bit of durability and avoiding annoying target movement modifiers at first. Like Wolverine and Shadow Hawk vs same.

For the sake of keeping it short and simple, I'd like to stick to 1v1 on one mapsheet, and for the sake of variety, have two different-but-relatively-well-matched mechs fighting each other. Something similar to the scenario from the Beginners Box, but more balanced. Also, the only mini that I have a duplicate of is the Wolverine, since it comes in both boxes, and I'd like to avoid resorting to the cardboard mech tokens.

Good news!  Your catapult isn't broken.

As for the issue with your Catapult: customerservice@catalystgamelabs.com

Yeah, my opponent used the hot water trick to fix his Catapault, and it looks pretty nice. Despite the simplicity of it, knowing myself I'd find a way to botch it. Is there a risk of accidentally warping the missile launcher, or losing detail? The antenna on my Locust is bent a bit as well, maybe I'll practice the hot water trick on that beforehand. I'll try calling that number too, see if I can't get a replacement Catapault as well. After all, two Catapaults are better than one!

The line of sight issue earlier involved a unit 2 levels higher firing on a unit NOT adjacent to a 2 level dead zone.  There was line of sight.  If the target had been adjacent to the 2 level cliff, it could have hugged the cliff face and been in complete cover, but one hex away from the cover and it's a clear shot.  There are optional rules for line of sight and partial cover, but they're a bit too complex in a beginner game, and probably too complex for any "casual" game, except between hard-core rules lawyers.

Ok, so line of sight in Battletech is actually pretty straightforward then. Realistically, I don't think the mechs would have had line of sight with each other if the terrain was 3D and we were using 40K LOS rules. I think the mech on lv2 wouldn't have been able to see it's target over the cliff, but it seems like we just ignore this for the sake of keeping it simple on a 2D map. Works for me.

This Saturday, we'll be heading to our local board game cafe to play our 3rd game. We'll be playing the first scenario from the AGoAC box, our first lance vs lance game. Same forces on both sides. I'm looking forward to playing on my new map sheets. Thanks for the advice, and wish me luck!

[Alsadius]

First thing's first, I apologize profusely for abandoning my own topic for so long! Rest assured though, I'm still quite interested in the game, and I'm still wanting to chat about it with all you more experienced folks.

No need to apologize for this. You don't owe us anything - I'm just happy to see that you're getting into the game and enjoying it.