Author Topic: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore  (Read 4339 times)

GamerDad

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BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« on: 09 April 2019, 11:28:33 »
Just trying to get my head around this concept and get some clarifications.

I remember stories of BattleMechs being family heirlooms and passed down from generation to generation and is a source of power and pride for a family.  Then there are stories of people stumbling across a cache (Brian? Brain?) and getting old mechs.  This setup generally had mechs as very rare items and could turn a tide during a battle, which I imagined would've been mostly vehicles and infantry and one or two mechs appearing would definitely turn the tide.  In my mind, lance-sized forces outside of major military operations or military-focused worlds would be rare, so on your average world, maybe a 2-vs-3 mech battle would be max.  I think in this scenario, mechs were also jury-rigged or would sport less armor than would be in the TRO, and so pilots would retreat once significant damage was done to the mech.

Then suddenly, it seems like mech production kicked up and mercenaries could buy mechs?  I mean fast forward to Jihad and it seems like not only new variants but totally new mechs start appearing and in massive quantities?

I'm just trying to understand how and when the universe/lore went from BattleMechs being rare to being moderately available to being mass produced?  As mentioned in another thread, I'm hoping to start a game with my boys and would like to make them feel what it's like pre-Clan era how valuable mechs were and how new mechs could be acquired.

Thanks!

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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #1 on: 09 April 2019, 11:42:27 »
early. the scavengertech world was thankfully put out of its misery almost immediately.  houses were producing several varieties of mechs in the housebooks ('87-'88) and full-scale production was a thing during the clan invasion in TROs 3050, 3055, and 3058 ('90, '92, and '95, respectively). 

the word of blake possessed a large number of factories that never experienced the degradation of the succession wars (skobel, martinson, and krupp alone were massive producers). the scope of the jihad itself was a contrivance of the clix game plot (but the entire plot of the btu is one giant string of contrivances so i don't let it bother me too much) - without the clix game the IP would have been toast fifteen years ago so it's a scar worth receiving. 

even with the "inflated" production, the houses barely have enough mechs to properly garrison their industrial and border worlds

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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #2 on: 09 April 2019, 11:51:37 »
The destruction of manufacturing resources in the 1st & 2nd Succession Wars slowed BattleMech production to a trickle. The 3rd Succession War was the peak of the "Mad Max" era, when you were most likely to have a 'Mech you inherited from a parent, but even then a number of new BattleMechs were being manufactured & distributed out by the House Lords to their most loyal retainers. During this time, mercenaries could at times purchase 'Mechs as well, but only the wealthiest & well-connected could typically afford to, most just maintaining existing equipment & aggressively pursuing salvage.

The recovery of the Helm Memory Core unlocked much of the Star League's military manufacturing technology the Inner Sphere had lost, & production rapidly ramped up from there. Production of BattleMechs is still relatively limited in the big scheme of things, but no longer are you stuck scrapping the battlefield for scrap unable to purchase replacement equipment.

glitterboy2098

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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #3 on: 09 April 2019, 12:13:57 »
The destruction of manufacturing resources in the 1st & 2nd Succession Wars slowed BattleMech production to a trickle. The 3rd Succession War was the peak of the "Mad Max" era, when you were most likely to have a 'Mech you inherited from a parent, but even then a number of new BattleMechs were being manufactured & distributed out by the House Lords to their most loyal retainers. During this time, mercenaries could at times purchase 'Mechs as well, but only the wealthiest & well-connected could typically afford to, most just maintaining existing equipment & aggressively pursuing salvage.

The recovery of the Helm Memory Core unlocked much of the Star League's military manufacturing technology the Inner Sphere had lost, & production rapidly ramped up from there. Production of BattleMechs is still relatively limited in the big scheme of things, but no longer are you stuck scrapping the battlefield for scrap unable to purchase replacement equipment.

pretty much. the 1st and 2nd succession war destroyed a lot of the factories built during the preceding eras, and damaged quite a few of the surviving ones as well as caused a lot of knowledge to be lost about how to build and maintain what survived. in many cases production went down to less than a dozen a year for a given design. if not for the fact that the 3rd succession war was so low key, with lots of raids and small skirmishes but relatively few major pitched battles, losses would probably have outpaced production.

the discovery of the helm memory core gave the inner sphere the knowledge to build the tools to gradually repair the infrastructure and factories, causing production to go way up, alongside the redevelopment of a bunch of more advanced technologies to put mechs. this is partly why the war of 3039 could be so major a conflict in terms of scale, and why the inner sphere actually had a hope of holding off the clans in 3050.

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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #4 on: 09 April 2019, 14:28:20 »
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Then there are stories of people stumbling across a cache (Brian? Brain?) and getting old mechs.

Hidden caches used to store Star League materiel in the lore are often referenced as a Castle Brian; more info can be found on Sarna: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Castle_Brian. They have become a bit of deus ex machina within the universe.

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I'm hoping to start a game with my boys and would like to make them feel what it's like pre-Clan era how valuable mechs were and how new mechs could be acquired.

I would suggest if you want to maintain the “rarity” value of the mechs you can always have the story/campaign take place in the near Periphery along the House borders. Or, create a few custom worlds near some of the minor/pirate states of the Periphery to flesh out the adventure. Eventually plunging into the Inner Sphere, like visiting the big city from the rural backwaters, for more fun.
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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #5 on: 09 April 2019, 15:22:01 »
The "Mad Max" scrounge-tech era died almost as soon as the BattleTech game came out, as the cobbled-together junk from the Star League era 300 years before, described in the earlier "Battledroids" predecessor game, quickly gave way to "limited production barely keeping pace with losses" in the late Succession Wars.  Even in 3025, while the core worlds of the major factions were building new 'Mechs, even introducing a couple of new models, but the fringes and Periphery were still places where a lance of 'Mechs could decide the fate of a planet.

By 3040, production was well on the way to recovery, and new equipment could actually be purchased by mercenaries and lesser nobles.  By 3060, house armies with the latest tech were the norm, and the feudal lord's personal ride and claim to power was now on the verge of becoming a dinosaur.  Then the Clans showed up, Comstar showed at least one side of its true face (the darker side appeared later in the Jihad), and the whole game and setting changed practically overnight.

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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #6 on: 09 April 2019, 15:36:23 »
I'm just trying to understand how and when the universe/lore went from BattleMechs being rare to being moderately available to being mass produced?  As mentioned in another thread, I'm hoping to start a game with my boys and would like to make them feel what it's like pre-Clan era how valuable mechs were and how new mechs could be acquired.
Keep in mind, some of it is personal opinion as well.  You get some people who prefer that overall setting while others set it as a niche case- like in the regions as mentioned.

The Kell Hounds mini-trilogy that was released a few weeks ago started off on Galatea in 3010 where a local crime lord had locked up the mech spare parts- on the principle merc world!- creating a situation where it was difficult for independent mercs to repair their mechs.  It was a artificial scarcity, and its important to note that even the Kell brothers with their political connections were going to tolerate the situation to get moving until they got caught up in the situation.

As for pre-Clan setting introduction . . . have you played HBS's Battletech video game?  Its set mid 3020s among a minor periphery power . . . and it has a PDF coming out!  In a bit over 2 weeks House Arano will be released covering the canon version of the Aurigan Coalition, which is a great way for a little merc unit (in the game you started off with a Shadow Hawk, Blackjack, Spider, and . . . Vindicator?) to become a bigger/stronger merc unit.  I am eagerly awaiting the book, I think we were teased they would give a table of contents teaser before it drops, expecting some scenarios, maybe a bio or two, and some RS for what gets seen in the game.
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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #7 on: 09 April 2019, 16:52:22 »
Regiments have always been the standard unit of action, ever since BattleTech's very first product, BattleDroids. Planetary actions tend to get broken into lance-sized engagements, though, and the boardgame particularly tends to focus on the heavier and more decisive of those engagements.

The earliest supplements focused on independent raiding companies, generally still acting as part of larger formations. We don't regularly see smaller isolated units until a year or two later, when FASA added working factories to the setting and started fleshing out garrisons and world counts.

Between the Fourth Succession War and the Clan Invasion (so around 1988-1989), army sizes increase to about 133% of what they were in 3025, and then the Clan Invasion knocked them back down. So if 75% of all 'Mechs were heirlooms in 3025, then the double-whammy of new production and Clan destruction could knock the fraction down to around 40% by 3052. Attrition stays high for the next few decades and would slowly drag the fraction even lower.

Technical Readouts in the '90s didn't pay as much attention to widget performance as earlier books did, but "partial repairs" remained part of the core rulebook until FanPro revamped the product line in 2005. FanPro's tenure is where the TROs really shifted focus to corporate lawsuits and hot-rodded customs.

Just trying to get my head around this concept and get some clarifications.

I remember stories of BattleMechs being family heirlooms and passed down from generation to generation and is a source of power and pride for a family.  Then there are stories of people stumbling across a cache (Brian? Brain?) and getting old mechs.  This setup generally had mechs as very rare items and could turn a tide during a battle, which I imagined would've been mostly vehicles and infantry and one or two mechs appearing would definitely turn the tide.  In my mind, lance-sized forces outside of major military operations or military-focused worlds would be rare, so on your average world, maybe a 2-vs-3 mech battle would be max.  I think in this scenario, mechs were also jury-rigged or would sport less armor than would be in the TRO, and so pilots would retreat once significant damage was done to the mech.

Then suddenly, it seems like mech production kicked up and mercenaries could buy mechs?  I mean fast forward to Jihad and it seems like not only new variants but totally new mechs start appearing and in massive quantities?

I'm just trying to understand how and when the universe/lore went from BattleMechs being rare to being moderately available to being mass produced?  As mentioned in another thread, I'm hoping to start a game with my boys and would like to make them feel what it's like pre-Clan era how valuable mechs were and how new mechs could be acquired.

Thanks!

Most of the things you remember being true are still true: 'Mechs are still won by or awarded to their pilots and then passed down as heirlooms; lost supply caches still get uncovered; lance-sized forces are still rare behind the front lines; vehicle and infantry forces are still (by quantity, if not by writer/reader attention) the majority of most garrisons and most major military actions.

Mercenaries do buy 'Mechs, but how many and how easily is something fans like to overstate as a convenience for play; and any given unit's level of repair and jury-rigging is still mostly a function of how much action they're seeing vs how much the Quartermaster Command likes them (and how abstractly their logistics are being examined). The primary difference here is that materials in the last decade or two tend to interpret "emergency jury-rigging" as hot-rodded weapons swaps.
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GamerDad

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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #8 on: 09 April 2019, 18:33:09 »
Can someone remind me what years (in game terms) were the 1st/2nd/3rd Succession Wars?

I'm glad that the rarity issue seems to have been dropped quickly, so can anyone give me some rough estimates of production capabilities and availability to mercenaries for the years 3025, 3030, 3040, and pre-Clan?  I mean even if Houses produced 500 mechs per year, that'll be useless if the Houses needed 600 mechs per year and therefore none left for mercs to purchase.  I do assume that mech production facilities, if not state-owned, would still have the state as 1st-priority, most-valued customer, wouldn't it?

Rough plan would have the players in pre-Clan era to allow them to learn the game, but not so far back so that their "pilots" would be dead by the time the Clans came along.  So maybe 20 years prior to Clan?  3030?  Hopefully, they'll each have a lance or two to command by the time the Clans come around and then try to salvage some Clan tech.

All three of us have played the latest BattleTech game, yes, and that's partly what re-ignited our interest in BattleTech.  My eldest was quite disappointed that the AC/20 didn't feel as bad-ass in the PC game, but still loved mounting two on a King Crab!  By the end of the game, we were just crippling enemy mechs and getting mad salvage, but he and I agreed that it was nowhere near how we enjoyed the boardgame.

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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #9 on: 09 April 2019, 18:38:57 »
One thing which doesn't get much mention is ComStar's operation HOLY SHROUD - the clandestine, systematic destruction of technological resources in the Successor States.  Assassination of researchers and technicians, sabotage of production facilities, and destruction of stored information (both physical and viral methods) put a crimp in the ability to increase production.  At least until they got wise and started putting more effort into security.
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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #10 on: 09 April 2019, 19:06:20 »
1st War: 2787-2821
2nd War: 2830-2864
3rd War: 2866-3025

For 3025, annual attrition for front-line House regiments seems to top out around 10%. (They might sometimes take bigger hits than that, but they also get pulled off the front line to recuperate, or get disbanded or folded into other regiments.) Mercenaries are about twice as active as House units, but would mostly get their material second-hand (which includes buying out smaller, less successful merc units).

I've not yet found any reason to think the ratios per regiment are any different for 3030-3049. 3030 sounds like a fine starting point.
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GamerDad

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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #11 on: 09 April 2019, 21:01:18 »
1st War: 2787-2821
2nd War: 2830-2864
3rd War: 2866-3025

For 3025, annual attrition for front-line House regiments seems to top out around 10%. (They might sometimes take bigger hits than that, but they also get pulled off the front line to recuperate, or get disbanded or folded into other regiments.) Mercenaries are about twice as active as House units, but would mostly get their material second-hand (which includes buying out smaller, less successful merc units).

I've not yet found any reason to think the ratios per regiment are any different for 3030-3049. 3030 sounds like a fine starting point.

Thanks for those dates!  So we will clearly be post-3rd Succession War and I think I like the idea of being in the Periphery; it would explain how/why there is mercenary work instead of a Noble House taking care of the issue.  Another possibility is a border world, maybe one with some production facility and the Noble House just cannot reinforce the world in a timely or efficient manner and thus generates work for mercenaries.

Any ideas or suggestions as to how the players would have access to a mech each or maybe three to start out with, with the 3rd one as a spare?  I'm thinking either a light and a medium, or two medium mechs.  Would "family heirloom" still be a good story for a 3030-3040 starting point?  Suggestions would be appreciated!

The next issue would be pilots or mechwarriors.  I'm guessing at this point, "family heirloom" can only go so far and besides, that would greatly limit the players so they should be able to salvage or shop for mechs every now and again, but how do they source pilots?  I know there are pilots with mechs hanging out in merc recruitment worlds, I'm guessing there are also pilots without mechs?  But how are these pilots trained?  Surely not everyone is ex-military.  And how would they recruit pilots outside of the merc worlds?   What would be a good story as to how they can shop for and find pilots in the Periphery?  This could also be the player's backstory, as to how they got trained in operating a mech. 

I am correct in assuming that piloting a mech takes training, right?  It's not something you just jump into and "do," even with the neural helmet.

As you can see, I'm hoping they don't just approach this as a boardgame and win-at-all-costs.  I want them to be invested in their mechs, invested in their pilots, and invested in their merc company and backstory would really help in this regard.

glitterboy2098

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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #12 on: 09 April 2019, 21:12:20 »
Rough plan would have the players in pre-Clan era to allow them to learn the game, but not so far back so that their "pilots" would be dead by the time the Clans came along.  So maybe 20 years prior to Clan?  3030?  Hopefully, they'll each have a lance or two to command by the time the Clans come around and then try to salvage some Clan tech.

All three of us have played the latest BattleTech game, yes, and that's partly what re-ignited our interest in BattleTech.  My eldest was quite disappointed that the AC/20 didn't feel as bad-ass in the PC game, but still loved mounting two on a King Crab!  By the end of the game, we were just crippling enemy mechs and getting mad salvage, but he and I agreed that it was nowhere near how we enjoyed the boardgame.

3030 would be an interesting time.. you'd start with succession wars tech and just after the 4th succession war, but you'd have gradual improvements in production of many things due to the helm core, and in 3039 you'd have a war, one in which the successor stats deployed some all new mech designs, prototype versions of various advanced technologies, and you start seeing some Star League level hardware showing up due to comstar meddling.

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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #13 on: 09 April 2019, 23:12:06 »
Thanks for those dates!  So we will clearly be post-3rd Succession War and I think I like the idea of being in the Periphery; it would explain how/why there is mercenary work instead of a Noble House taking care of the issue.  Another possibility is a border world, maybe one with some production facility and the Noble House just cannot reinforce the world in a timely or efficient manner and thus generates work for mercenaries.

Any ideas or suggestions as to how the players would have access to a mech each or maybe three to start out with, with the 3rd one as a spare?  I'm thinking either a light and a medium, or two medium mechs.  Would "family heirloom" still be a good story for a 3030-3040 starting point?  Suggestions would be appreciated!

The next issue would be pilots or mechwarriors.  I'm guessing at this point, "family heirloom" can only go so far and besides, that would greatly limit the players so they should be able to salvage or shop for mechs every now and again, but how do they source pilots?  I know there are pilots with mechs hanging out in merc recruitment worlds, I'm guessing there are also pilots without mechs?  But how are these pilots trained?  Surely not everyone is ex-military.  And how would they recruit pilots outside of the merc worlds?   What would be a good story as to how they can shop for and find pilots in the Periphery?  This could also be the player's backstory, as to how they got trained in operating a mech. 



You should start in one of the 3 big periphery states. They all have some  production capacity and  training programs.

The Canopians have bug mechs and  Shadow Hawk. The Outworld  Alliance has bug mech and The Merlin.

The Taurians have a mix of  light and heavy mechs. They also have an academie  onpart with most similar IS institutions.
Graduates pilot  gov own mech  and once their conscription is up, leave  without a mech.

So one option to find pilots is to go see the local garrison commander and ask if they have pilots about to get out of the service.

An other source of trained pilot  would be civilian industrial mech operators. Its a fairly common source of pilots in the periphery.   

The Taurians outside of the TDF also have noble regiments, mostly conventional troop with a company of mechs at most but a lance or less being
more likely. The other two states probably have  something similar either noble own or local run militias.

All 3 dont have enough mechs to  cover every things  adequately and use mercs. In the case of the Alliances you works for
planet gov as the Alliance charter forbids  the feds to do so. 
 

 


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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #14 on: 10 April 2019, 09:56:30 »
A 'Mech might be a family heirloom, and old model might be granted to a pilot upon retirement in exchange for prior distinguished military service, it could be something that "fell off the truck" and is now in the hands of an underworld organization (which presents problems if you need to get it through customs), or it could be part of a competitive dueling team's stable (Solaris VII is the best known, but there are dozens of other worlds throughout the Inner Sphere and Periphery with 'Mech dueling arenas).

I'd probably start them with one lighter Medium and a halfway decent Light.  Examples might be a Phoenix Hawk, Clint, Hermes II, or Assassin for the first, and a Firestarter, Javelin, or Commando for the second.  If there's a third, make it a Locust, Stinger, or Wasp, so there's a backup ride if needed, but not something you would WANT to use.  That should be sufficient to beat up on a few vehicles and a Light 'Mech or two for initial confrontations, and should give them some training at movement and modifiers.  Giving them something designed to just stand there and shoot teaches very little, you want them to learn to use mobility and tactics.

There is probably no shortage of Dispossessed Mechwarriors out there looking for a new ride.  Many of them will be impoverished nobles (having lost their fief along with their 'Mech when an opposing faction took over their planet), or ex-military pilots; others will be former Mercenaries who couldn't make a go of it, or former dueling pilots who weren't good or "popular" enough to draw crowds, and nobody will hire them.  Most will be on the low side of average, but they should be able to scrounge up a team of "adequate" personnel (such as 5/5 or 4/6 skill), who can train up to average or above in not too much time.  You could provide a bit of background for the hirelings, like "he's good on the firing range, but has trouble maneuvering", or "can make a 'Mech dance, but can't hit the broad side of a barn".

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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #15 on: 10 April 2019, 11:16:57 »
There are various "Hiring Halls" scattered throughout the Inner Sphere.  The most famous of which is Galatea, the "Mercenary Star".  The Mercenary Review Board, established under the auspices of ComStar, and headquartered I believe on Galatea, was active from 2789 - 3052.  At this point it was eclipsed by Outreach and superseded by the Mercenary Review and Bonding Commission run by Wolf's Dragoons.

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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #16 on: 10 April 2019, 11:29:07 »
Here is a list I dropped on the merc group thread-

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=726.msg1494473#msg1494473

Most of the list is the status as of 3130s, but I also include why old hiring hall worlds are not available at that time.  Biggest thing to keep in mind is that some of them become hiring hall worlds b/c of events.  Outreach b/c the Dragoons settle there in the 3030s, Arc Royal b/c its the Kell Hounds' home world though it gets more important with the coming of the Clans, Northwind only becomes one b/c the Highlanders return, and there are others that you can find out about.

The lawless Periphery worlds like Antallos, Herotitus and Astrokasy can get really interesting though I am not sure you want to explore all of their nature with kids.
Colt Ward
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GamerDad

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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #17 on: 10 April 2019, 19:54:33 »
Amazing help, thanks!

Is there a resource I should look at for finer details regarding what's happening for the 3030-3040 time period?  Then another one for 3040-3050?

As for location, I'd like them to start in the Periphery but also be close enough that they'd encounter Clan invasion later on, but not really the main push of the Clan invasion.  Just enough to get some action with the Clans and be able to salvage their mechs.

I'm not too concerned about the darker details of the Periphery as I can always just ignore that bit.  It's a lawless place and the players are there to provide order.  Hero stuff for kids.  :thumbsup:

Having said that, I envision the players being able to salvage a Clan mech or two so that a player's lance may have 1, maybe max 2 Clan mechs and maybe be able to jury-rig Clan tech onto the other mechs.  I remember there used to be some sort of rule that made Clan tech and mechs much harder to maintain by IS technicians.  I wonder if CC covers this?

The one reason I ask about hiring outside of hiring halls is because if I understand interstellar travel correctly, travelling from the Periphery to some core world, hanging about for a week or two, then travelling back, would take a good number of months, maybe even half a year or more depending on the starting location and how far away the hiring world is.  This is one aspect of the game universe that I couldn't understand.  If hyperspace communications and travel took so long, then really how could anything be done?  If a planet is attacked and taken over by an opposing House, unless there is a garrison planet a system or two away, that's still a good month or more before news gets transmitted, a reaction force gets assembled, sent out, and lands on the contested planet!  Anyway, that's for a different discussion time, I think.  Point is that I don't think the players can afford to travel to a hiring world just for pilots or even mechs; it'll have to happen after a contract wherein they'd have to travel there anyway to get/negotiate a new contract, but what if they manage to find a new employer right away?  I'm wondering how they can resupply (mechs and pilots) at that time?

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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #18 on: 10 April 2019, 20:14:10 »
You’ve managed to select one of the Great Timline Deserts (slightly smaller than the 2900s and 3085-3145, but still a big hole.

TRO 3039, Historical: Brush Wars, Historical: War of 3039, and Starterbook: Sword and Dragon are the most prominent sourcebooks that are placed in that era. There’s also the 20 Year Update that jumped the timeline from 3030 to 3050 back in the day but I’m not sure how much of that has been papered over with retcons. IIRC the FASA wolf’s dragoon’s sourcebook was set in 3030 but I don’t know how much of a help it would be (also it’s not in PDF and can be expensive).

For the periphery, check out the periphery 2nd edition from FASA. It’s set in around 3055-56 but will have some background from the era you’re looking at

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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #19 on: 10 April 2019, 22:48:08 »
Something regarding travel times.  As a mercenary unit, you would have an agent on a hiring hall world looking into contacts for you.  And work close to where you currently are would be higher priority.  The full unit wouldn't travel all the way back unless there was no work, or you're considered persona non grata and are looking for a change in operational area.  Or perhaps undergoing a major expansion and looking to properly integrate new personnel and equipment.

The danger in taking a job in the periphery is its easy to get stranded - you don't have enough funds to leave, there's not enough local resources to get back to a state to generate enough income either.

HPG communications is pretty fast, messages can get out to the periphery in a day or three at most.  The lesser worlds without an HPG would have to wait for a JumpShip courier, anywhere from a week to a month.
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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #20 on: 10 April 2019, 23:09:52 »
The danger in taking a job in the periphery is its easy to get stranded - you don't have enough funds to leave, there's not enough local resources to get back to a state to generate enough income either.
which is why it can be really easy for a down on their luck merc unit in the periphery to end up company-store'd by one of the periphery powers, or to turn pirate.

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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #21 on: 11 April 2019, 09:20:27 »
I did not consider having an agent!  I would imagine the agent might not even be connected to the merc company at all!  Just as you have estate agents/realtors selling houses in behalf of the actual owners?  Then they would just charge a fee.  I think this is a great idea and I can just "feed" 3-4 contracts to my players for them to select.

Thanks for the info on what books to look at.  I presume byt "timeline deserts," you mean there's not much written material regarding this time period?  If that's the case, then I would just like to look at what's prior to this.  For example, maybe 3025 lore and practices would still be used until late 3040s or post-Clan?

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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #22 on: 11 April 2019, 10:35:38 »
The headhunter is a great idea, and would be how a lot of it gets done IMO.  BUT . . . couple of things to consider-

When?  In the late 3030s Outreach is going to start overtaking Galatea as the mercenary capital and the crown actually transfers when ComStar's neutrality is dropped with Op Scorpion.  Its a great bit to be hinting at to your kids/players about the shift in trade patterns, I am sure you can give positives/negatives for where & when they change worlds.  Nearby Northwind will start factoring in more to the merc trade b/c the Highlanders were given it back during 4SW but they were even more restrictive than the Dragoons about who they allowed to operate on their world- never figured out how/why old crazy Waco was ever allowed on Outreach.

Where?  Like I said, each world by the merc ruleset gives you advantages to recruiting, contracts, and supply (of course it will depend on timeframe too!) but if you play out in the Aurigan/Fronc area as suggested you are closer to Outreach (which means messages will get turned around faster) but in 3030s its not the capital it is in the 3050s.  Additionally, you actually DO have a nearby hiring hall world- Herotitus!  Which is basically a wilder Vegas for part of the planet, but it can give you a 'local' source of recruits, contracts and equipment.  Herotitus is likely to have more local/regional representatives- TC, MoC, Aurigan Coalition?, independent planets (between/around TC & MoC), and noble rules of the FS & CC periphery border zones.  You would not likely find someone from the AFFS merc dept shopping a contract on planet though IMO the Cappies might be a bit more likely.

For 3030s practices . . . its a period the paradigm is shifting; Davion just successfully prosecuted the largest land grab in decades if not since 1SW.  Tech is being restored and prototypes are getting combat tested in raids while the first entirely new mechs in decades are coming out (Hatchetman, Wolfhound, Raven, Merlin) so raids against facilities and units for tech should be up.  It would be a fun little twist to play against the kids- have them face a Prototype Gauss Rifle or some such . . . then do they try to keep the experimental weapon legally (meaning they structured their contract for salvage to work in their favor) for use/sale, hide it from their employers to use after their current contract, or hide it to sell it to a third party.

IMO the easiest way to introduce them to the Clans would be to keep them away during the initial Invasion unless they want to go 'challenge mode' at the 3046-48 decision point.  If they go 'challenge mode' then you have to decide which flavor- AFFS, DCMS or FRR. 

Free RasRep will be the most difficult for a multitude of reasons-
Smallest state facing the Clans
Fewer national units to shift
Lower tech recovery level- aka less support
national distrust/dislike for mercs
Face the toughest Clan-  the Wolves
Face a Clan that hates mercs quick-  the Ghost Bears

DCMS will be difficult, but not FRR level-
Past 'Death to Mercenaries' decree
DCMS bushido/samurai attitudes
absolutely treated like fodder- disposable rearguard to line units
company store attitude
low chance of resupply

AFFS
mercs lead defense/counterattack- ELH, Kell Hounds, etc
more polite about being fodder
more likely to take tech
higher chance of getting 3050 upgrade kit?

The 'easier' path to Clan tech upgrades?  Have them sit out the initial invasion still doing periphery fighting, but give them INN (Interstellar News Network, a ComStar spin off) updates like the WWII movie news bits.  Then the Truce happens . . . maybe 'suspend' their campaign to let them play the ComGuards for a few of the Tukayyid scenarios so they can get a feel for Clan tech and that they 'helped' defeat the Clan invasion without risking their long-term characters.  When you restart their story . . . well, Wolcott is a very useful ploy.  Its a world Theodore Kurita bargained to keep in the midst of the Jaguar/Cat OZ.  Its dangerous to get to, but it operates as a forward base for DCMS raiding teams- merc & national units.  Supplies are hard to get, but the Dracs get mercs to sign on by allowing them salvage terms where they keep some of the Clan tech they capture.
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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #23 on: 11 April 2019, 10:48:33 »
The scattered regional hiring halls would most likely have agents for hire as well, so if the unit had been to any significant hiring hall in the recent past, they could have made arrangements.  Communications via Hyperpulse Generator (a Comstar exclusive) are a bit pricey for the common person to send friendly greetings, but a drop in the bucket for a mercenary command to do business between planetary systems within 30 light-years, and probably still affordable for re-transmission a lot further, although that may add a day or two.

It's probably more likely that a unit would find a local contact, though, and hire from the planet they're on, or at least within one jump of it (the new recruit then has to make the trip by dropship/jumpship/dropship, which could take around 2-10 weeks, depending on the distances from planets to jump points and the next scheduled jump).

The 3025 situation is more-or-less "normal" (with a few minor tech advances which aren't 100% ironed out yet) up until around the War of 3039, at which point a few key House units begin fielding bits and pieces of newly rediscovered and re-engineered Star League equipment, and the DCMS ends up getting a few pieces of actual Star League design equipment from Comstar to field against Davion.  The introduction of advanced equipment steadily increases until the Clans show up, and then it's a race to see how much high-tech hardware you can throw at the problem, whether it makes sense or not.

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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #24 on: 11 April 2019, 17:13:50 »
Awesome advice, thanks!  I don't expect us to be fighting Clans anytime soon, but it's in the general design so I just didn't want them starting out on the wrong end of the galaxy.  ;D

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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #25 on: 12 April 2019, 02:09:03 »
Awesome advice, thanks!  I don't expect us to be fighting Clans anytime soon, but it's in the general design so I just didn't want them starting out on the wrong end of the galaxy.  ;D

You can easily start with 3025, and then progress through the generation of development with actions leading to said development.  When they seem to get bored, then bring them in to 3039, with actions for or against the Suns part of the AFFC.  Many revenge contracts will be sought by House Liao and destabilizing contracts by the rest during those times, make it good to be a Merc.

Pushing along, if they feel ready for a challenge, give them the options mentioned before by Colt Ward, but then have them move to their next generation as part of that story.  Will they be in a cushy FWL job when the news hits, or will their old units be hit by the Falcons or Jaguars in the Periphery, and so their next generation seeks opportunities for revenge by signing up under Victor or Theodore?  Where will they be when Operation Scorpion hits, supporting ComStar or getting caught by it?  Moving past that, will they be at Coventry or participate in Operations Bird Dog or Bulldog, or will they have lost all attempting to survive to that point?
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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #26 on: 12 April 2019, 08:36:26 »
3035 gives the group a couple of years of "security duty" and "pirate hunting" to get their feet wet at relatively safe levels of combat before the War of 3039 begins and things get messy.  After that, they've got the option of either moving to the Periphery to continue pirate hunting (and possibly encounter mysterious invaders) or taking part in the resumed raiding between major faction within the Inner Sphere and/or the formation of the Free Rasalhague Republic, THEN joining the IS powers in fighting to stop the Clans.

It's fine to be half-way across the known galaxy from the Clan Invasion, because there were drastic shifts of forces happening at that time in response to the frightening events.  Their group would just be one more heading to where the action is.  It's not like they have to sit there in real time for the long trip.

GamerDad

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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #27 on: 13 April 2019, 12:19:59 »
I think I want them to be there when the "alien forces" hits and we'll end up with some sort of retreat scenario rather than hearing about a new threat then going to the fight.  Then again, I'm not married to this idea and suggestions are most welcome.

but then have them move to their next generation as part of that story. 
When you say "them," do you mean as a mercenary company or as an individual?  I think I'd like stuff to happen within one generation so that THEY are actually the pilot for these battles rather than just running a mercenary company from the third person.  I think that'll give them more investment into the units and the lances and the lancemates and not just treating some units as throwaway forces.

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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #28 on: 14 April 2019, 00:35:23 »
When you say "them," do you mean as a mercenary company or as an individual?  I think I'd like stuff to happen within one generation so that THEY are actually the pilot for these battles rather than just running a mercenary company from the third person.  I think that'll give them more investment into the units and the lances and the lancemates and not just treating some units as throwaway forces.

My answer would be, "yes".  The players are the mercenary company, they just may be the mind behind specific characters for the duration of campaigns until they cannot fight any more. 

For example, the players would control specific characters for a pre-3039 campaign, and then take up control of their previous character's successors (either biological like the Kells, or spiritual like in the Eridani Light Horse) when it comes time to face the Clans.  Player 1 may play Captain Strongface for/against the Federated Suns in 3029, but when 3049 comes around, he's playing Lt Strongface Jr.  Player 2 would play Lt Hardnose in 3029, but then play Lt Hardarse in 3049 who is now leading the same Lance with new blood as Hardnose is on another assignment, retired or ...retired.
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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #29 on: 14 April 2019, 03:09:37 »
In a 15 year time frame the character can be the same (except if it suffers crippling injury or death). No need for successors. If they start with young MechWarrior a they will be veterans by the time they face the clans, that is all.

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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #30 on: 14 April 2019, 11:00:19 »
In a 15 year time frame the character can be the same (except if it suffers crippling injury or death). No need for successors. If they start with young MechWarrior a they will be veterans by the time they face the clans, that is all.

Very true.  It depends on how you want the campaign to go.  One reason I changed it from 3039 to 3029 in my example was to increase the range to 20 years.  20 years provide many good opportunities to be retired, for good or bad reasons. 

Also consider that the requirements of a campaign may require a smaller force than would be taken in.  When only a Lance or Company is called for, a Colonel usually doesn't show up, since their job is to lead the whole regiment.  So, Lt Strongface, Jr is on the job since Col Strongface is committed to other work.

It was about providing opportunities for changing things up if you needed to, or the players wanted to.  Most Merc units never get big enough to have a Colonel, though, so it wouldn't be hard or surprising to have had Capt Strongface be in the same position for 20 years because their experiences have not allowed them to grow beyond their original size.
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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #31 on: 14 April 2019, 11:28:37 »
A time frame I enjoy is the 3010s. If you think about it, you've got a number of events possible to participate in while not getting overwhelmed by the flow of the universe. Players can get their characters to mature and possibly participate in the Marik Civil War. The low intensity raids of the 3rd SW are going on, but starting to wind down. They have the opportunity to pick up a new 'mech design such as the Merlin. Perhaps even reward them with a fresh off the factory Hatchetman or Cataphract, which would be a big deal in the era.

You maintain the scavenger aesthetic, but because of the recovery of the time there is a lot you can do. ComStar is also still covertly mucking with things. The ComGuards are still hidden, which means contracts with them are easily written. Then as the players become more capable, you can hit them with the 4th SW.

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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #32 on: 14 April 2019, 12:09:29 »
you also have the option of creating your own little pockets within the canon universe that allow them to participate in big events without being in the middle of a regiment vs regiment battle. I've run a number of campaigns where the PC force was assigned to perform assignments around the periphery of much larger operations. The context was canon, but the small-unit actions the PCs were performing did not disturb the greater universe too much, if at all - For example, as a vanguard force on Cor Caroli ahead of the allied landings for Operation SCOUR in 3077, an SLDF resistance cell disrupting AEAF operations on New Earth as part of Operation CHIEFTAIN in 2776, and Mercs in the Chaos March helping an industrial interest to root out a corrupt AFFS quartermaster.

my players preferred throw-away campaigns but you could easily string together a number of such ideas through virtually any period in the timeline.

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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #33 on: 15 April 2019, 10:51:12 »
I think I would prefer that the players are the actual pilots as I'm dealing with kids.  If I was playing with more mature players or adults, then I can see myself running a game where the players are the pilots then fast forward to having the pilots be descendants of the original founders.

Part of the goal here is to progress their pilots from just a regular mech pilot to an ace with specializations, promoting even more investment into their alternate persona and their developed lancemates.  As I've seen from their playing of the BattleTech PC game, the guys that were with them from the start got preferrential treatment as far as mech assignment goes and I'd like to see that in the game, for good or for bad.

I do plan to have something like Sartris mentions where the players are involved in the overall story but are not the main focus of the lore.  The game universe will still plod on, but the player's merc company will be pivotal in smaller operations.  Might be frontline, might be out in the flanks, might be deep behind enemy lines, but will be concentrating on stuff that will fit whatever merc size they are at the time.  Heck, I think they can even be part of a regiment vs. regiment battle even if they're not in the actual fighting; they can guard a key pass or be tasked with reinforcing a weak part in the line, right?

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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #34 on: 15 April 2019, 11:02:08 »
Might be frontline, might be out in the flanks, might be deep behind enemy lines, but will be concentrating on stuff that will fit whatever merc size they are at the time.  Heck, I think they can even be part of a regiment vs. regiment battle even if they're not in the actual fighting; they can guard a key pass or be tasked with reinforcing a weak part in the line, right?

MW4 expansion- I think it was Black Knight?- had a good scenario for this.  The PC group had been rotated off the line, but got a alert b/c the loyalist forces were staging a heavy attack on the allied line at a big pass.  They went through the re-arm point behind the line cleaning up some leakers- VTOLs & hovercraft.  Then move up to plug the gap in the pass to support the surviving allied mechs & tanks.  The PCs had to get there fast enough to bail out survivors but with heavy enough chassis to absorb the attack.
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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #35 on: 15 April 2019, 12:43:01 »
Just trying to get my head around this concept and get some clarifications.

I remember stories of BattleMechs being family heirlooms and passed down from generation to generation and is a source of power and pride for a family.  Then there are stories of people stumbling across a cache (Brian? Brain?) and getting old mechs.  This setup generally had mechs as very rare items and could turn a tide during a battle, which I imagined would've been mostly vehicles and infantry and one or two mechs appearing would definitely turn the tide.  In my mind, lance-sized forces outside of major military operations or military-focused worlds would be rare, so on your average world, maybe a 2-vs-3 mech battle would be max.  I think in this scenario, mechs were also jury-rigged or would sport less armor than would be in the TRO, and so pilots would retreat once significant damage was done to the mech.

Then suddenly, it seems like mech production kicked up and mercenaries could buy mechs?  I mean fast forward to Jihad and it seems like not only new variants but totally new mechs start appearing and in massive quantities?

I'm just trying to understand how and when the universe/lore went from BattleMechs being rare to being moderately available to being mass produced?  As mentioned in another thread, I'm hoping to start a game with my boys and would like to make them feel what it's like pre-Clan era how valuable mechs were and how new mechs could be acquired.

Thanks!

In the original game (Battledroids, in 1984), mech production had ground to a complete halt.  Human civilization was full on Mad Max in most places.  Mech "factories" were really warehouses full of parts that were slowly cobbled together into complete mechs, but nothing really "new" was being produced.

In 1985, the second edition of the game (called Battletech for the first time) was released, and there was a slight retcon.  Now the universe was described as being mostly Mad Max, but there were still some factories and some production was still going on.  We get some of the history of the game at this point.  Previously (in the before times), the Inner Sphere had been wracked with terrible wars.  The First and Second Succession Wars (roughly 2785 through 2865 or so) was basically one long series of nuclear wars, orbital bombardments, wiping out planets, and other nasty stuff.  It left the Inner Sphere in ruins.  The Third Succession War followed, and it runs up until the "present day" of the second edition game (about 3010 or so when the novels begin).  This is probably the era that you are most familiar with.

In the Third Succession War, mech production continues but it's at a crawl.  Nations work as hard as they can and barely manage to cover their losses.  Planetary "invasions" often have only a handful of mechs fighting over a supply of spare parts or a piece of equipment from a water purification plant.  While regiments are described as existing, there's a definite focus on the small handful of Battlemechs fighting in tiny raids over scraps.

As time goes by, the novels progress, leading up to the Fourth Succession War in 3028.  Here it's revealed that maybe things weren't as bad as we thought, because Hanse Davion is able to pull a bunch of Battlemech regiments out of his butt, and suddenly coordinates the largest invasion in the last 150 years.  The perspective of the game shifts from small raids to large battles and major wars.  Not much explanation is given at the time for the sudden change, though later on (in real world terms) there's some explanation that the Inner Sphere had been slowly recovering their capabilities and it just wasn't really visible yet until 3025 or so.

So theoretically, at the beginning of the Third Succession War things were exactly as you thought of them, but the last 50 years or so the Inner Sphere was starting to piece things together again.

In 1989/1990, two important things happen.  First, the Gray Death Legion (a mercenary unit loved by the writers) uncovers an old Star League base that has a working computer system with full schematics for everything.  It's a full "jump start your stagnant civilization with advanced tech" how to guide.  This happens around the same time as the Fourth Succession War.  Second thing, we skip forward to the year 3050, when the Inner Sphere is invaded by a new group -- the Clans.

The Clans have super-Battlemechs, and the writers haven't gotten the message yet that the Inner Sphere was supposed to be experiencing a tech recovery.  The Clans slam full tilt into what appears to be a 4th Succession War era Inner Sphere full of old technology.  The Clans are stopped short by the revelation that ComStar (supposedly a neutral organization with no weapons, focused only on ensuring safe communications) actually has been quietly keeping an entire army of Star League level Battlemechs hidden this entire time.  See they were waiting for things to get bad enough for them to take over and seize power, but they never got their chance.  Now they have to play hero and stop the Clan Invasion (the Clans are not interested in allowing ComStar to take over someday).

This leads us to 1992, and Battletech third edition.  The boxed set of the game rewinds to right before/during the 4th Succession War.  While there are plenty of books out there describing the Clan Invasion, the boxed set establishes the year 3025 as the "base" time period for Battletech.  It's before any advanced tech appears, and so the rules are the simplest to learn at that time.  As described in the 3rd ed set, there's a bit of the Mad Max era left, but there's also a bigger acknowledgment of regiments and full scale wars.

As time goes by in the 1990s and into the 2000s, more products are introduced that fill in the time between the Fourth Succession War and the beginning of the Clan Invasion.  Over 20 years (in universe) had passed between discovering the Star League memory core, and the Clans hitting.  So the tech recovery process is expanded, new mech designs are retroactively inserted, and the description of how exactly the Invasion happened is changed a bit.  Originally, the Inner Sphere was completely clueless as to how any of the advanced tech worked.  With the new retelling, the Inner Sphere has advanced mechs of their own in the field at the time (though they still aren't nearly as good as the Clan versions).

Once you get post-Clan Invasion (3070s and later), everybody can produce as many mechs with as much super-tech as they want.  I kinda quit following the story at that point.

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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #36 on: 15 April 2019, 18:54:16 »
Unfortunately, my playing of the PC games has been so long ago that I can barely remember the stories.  Just cool mechs with pew-pew!  I think I started with MechWarrior 2 and fell in love with the MadCat straight away.

Maybe there's a YouTube video of the games somewhere and we can just watch those to refresh our memories....

Once you get post-Clan Invasion (3070s and later), everybody can produce as many mechs with as much super-tech as they want.  I kinda quit following the story at that point.
I remember BattleTech being "revived" and discovering that the plan was HeroClix, but I think the Jihad happened before that?  Anyway, didn't really follow much of the story once both sides were going super tech.  I'm surprised at how/why I remember this Mad Max era the most and thought it lasted longer than it did.  I must've read a sourcebook or intro rulebook from one of the old products.  I am glad that mech production is going on during the eras I'd like to play in and that we don't have to Mad Max everything.  >:D

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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #37 on: 15 April 2019, 19:30:06 »
I think MS released MW4 as freeware . . . I still have my expansion pack discs and so I fire it up every once in a while- particularly mercs.
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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #38 on: 15 April 2019, 21:28:49 »
Awesome advice, thanks!  I don't expect us to be fighting Clans anytime soon, but it's in the general design so I just didn't want them starting out on the wrong end of the galaxy.  ;D

One idea might be having the Mechs on a Periphery border of a Successor state (Lyran or Federated Suns), dealing with pirates.  The pirates are in broken down and badly damaged Mechs, but so are the players.  The advantages the players have is that they know the local terrain (letting the players pick the maps when they chase the pirates off one map), plus if they do better they can get the locals to help out (equipment and hostage rescue at first, later going to capturing the Pirate Dropship).  The PCs get used to this for a while, salvaging damaged pirate Mechs to make repairs and even upgrades to their own Mechs.  If they do a good enough job, they might even try to use the Dropship and a Jumpship to try and raid the pirate planet, rescuing any hostages present.

Common technologies for the PCs to have to start with and provided by the planetary industry:
Commercial Internal structure - 20% of Mech mass is internal structure
Commercial armor: 24 pts of armor per ton, but any hit over 5 pts rolls on the potential critical hits table
(Military internal structure/armor/weaponry mainly comes from pirate Mechs that are too damaged to retreat)

Then you give out reports that the Star League tech is getting handed out slowly.  Well, all that Star League tech is replacing existing tech, so a Quartermaster decides to pad his retirement account, and sells the surplus weaponry/armor/internal structure to a reliable buyer.  That reliable buyer has connections to pirates, so the pirate mechs attacking start to be in better shape.

Eventually the players get a handle on dealing with better armed pirate Mechs, and are able to handle them.  Then the stories about mysterious raiders start trickling in, and House forces on-planet are removed to fight these invaders.  So the number of defenders is reduced to half or even a third, meaning the players have to deal with effectively 2-3* as many pirates as before (or they can only deploy 1/2 to 1/3 of their forces because some of them have to stay behind at their depot to prevent the pirates from raiding that).

This should keep the tech levels fairly low, but keep up the pressure on the players as well.  They can also try to train their people (sending an NPC off-world for several months, then they return with more knowledge), use their people to help the locals (locals buy the medical gear, and the PC force medic has a free clinic), and even provide heavy help where needed (Mechs to help with flood rescues).

GamerDad

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Re: BattleMechs and the game universe/lore
« Reply #39 on: 16 April 2019, 06:32:52 »
Great idea!  Thanks!