Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race

[Lagrange]

Fast Interceptor will probably wait on Lasers. 

A fast interceptor base on MGs would not be terrible.  It could function as an aggressive backstabber in combat and offer high-G response elsewhere.

30 for a single Barracuda in a light anti-fighter model

Is a light anti-fighter carrying a Barracuda worthwhile?  A 30 tonner might go 11/16.5, but that's reduced to 5.5/8.25 when carrying the Barracuda.  Presumably, the stresses of accelerating a Barracuda at max thrust are similar to the stresses of max thrust, so the 30 tonner can only safely go 5.5.  This is only modestly slower than a 6/9 90-ton heavy strike fighter carrying a single Barracuda at 6.75 using max thrust (safely, since it has SI 9).   Even an 80 ton 6/9 design which only uses thrust 8 for safety can put out 5.8 thrust.  Similar arguments apply to 50 ton designs.  The only advantage lighter fighters seem to enjoy is lower price which is hard to justify given the all-up cost of an ASF bay.  At best, these seem justifiable for planet-based ASF.

Maybe just simplify everything to a single heavy strike fighter?

The David is probably too big for its role, especially if I want some below-max-size SC. Seems like a bit less speed and a bit less armour would let you cut it down to maybe 120 tons or so, and it'd be a rare situation where you'd use 5.5g of thrust with 150 guys inside. But the design principles are solid.

I'm hard-pressed to find any canon combat smallcraft less than 150 tons as the design rules are quite unforgiving of low tonnage designs.

W.r.t. bay size somehow accommodating bay personnel with 0 leftover tons.
(1) There are many other places in the rules where leftover tons are wasted so a minor case of rounding the other way does not concern me much.
(2) As far as I know, housing the bay personnel for a smallcraft in the smallcraft is allowed.  It's also wise as the consumables for bay personnel are prohibitively higher.

Edit: Thinking about this further, it seems important to distinguish between an infantry shuttle and a marine boarding craft.  The former should probably be aerodyne, maybe sport a few modest weapons, and need only really go 3/5.  The latter should probably be a spheroid and needs a minimum of 6/9 to have an adequate overtake velocity.   Maybe this should imply separate designs?

[Smegish]

Well, I'll have a crack at the ASF designs, with 2 variants released at 2400, and 1 every 100 years after that to allow for improved technology.

The 30-ton Tanto (Dagger)

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                    AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  VALIDATED

Class/Model/Name:  Tanto TNT-01
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 2400
Vessel Type:       Aerospace Fighter
Rules:             Level 2, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              30 tons
Power Plant:       210 Fusion
Safe Thrust:       9
Maximum Thrust:    14
Armor Type:        Ferro-aluminum
Armament:         
    1 Autocannon/2
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Tanto TNT-01
Mass:              30 tons

Equipment:                                                              Mass
Power Plant:  210 Fusion                                                 9.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 9
      Maximum Thrust: 14
Structural Integrity: 9                                                   .00
Total Heat Sinks:    10 Single                                            .00
Fuel:                                                                    4.00
Cockpit & Attitude Thrusters:                                            3.00
Armor Type:  Ferro-aluminum  (125 total armor pts)                       7.00
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Nose:                                 42
   Left/Right Wings:                  31/31
   Aft:                                  21

Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Autocannon/2             Nose         2      2      2     --    1      6.00
  Ammo (AC/2) 45           ---                                           1.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                                     Heat: 1     30.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        1,658,415 C-Bills
Battle Value:      453
Cost per BV:       3,660.96
Weapon Value:      494 (Ratio = 1.09)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 2;  MRV = 1;  LRV = 1;  ERV = 0
BattleForce2:      MP: 9,  Armor/Structure: 3 / 0
                   Damage PB/M/L: -/-/-,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: FL;  Point Value: 5


Code: [Select]

  AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  VALIDATED

Class/Model/Name:  Tanto TNT-02
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 2400
Vessel Type:       Aerospace Fighter
Rules:             Level 2, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              30 tons
Power Plant:       210 Fusion
Safe Thrust:       9
Maximum Thrust:    14
Armor Type:        Ferro-aluminum
Armament:         
    1 SRM 6
    4 Machine Gun
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Tanto TNT-02
Mass:              30 tons

Equipment:                                                              Mass
Power Plant:  210 Fusion                                                 9.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 9
      Maximum Thrust: 14
Structural Integrity: 9                                                   .00
Total Heat Sinks:    10 Single                                            .00
Fuel:                                                                    4.00
Cockpit & Attitude Thrusters:                                            3.00
Armor Type:  Ferro-aluminum  (125 total armor pts)                       7.00
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Nose:                                 42
   Left/Right Wings:                  31/31
   Aft:                                  21

Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 SRM 6                    Nose         8     --     --     --    4      3.00
  Ammo (SRM 6) 15          ---                                           1.00
2 Machine Gun              RW           2     --     --     --    0      1.00
2 Machine Gun              LW           2     --     --     --    0      1.00
  Ammo (MG) 200            ---                                           1.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                                     Heat: 4     30.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        1,719,365 C-Bills
Battle Value:      526
Cost per BV:       3,268.75
Weapon Value:      775 (Ratio = 1.47)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 15;  MRV = 0;  LRV = 0;  ERV = 0
BattleForce2:      MP: 9,  Armor/Structure: 3 / 0
                   Damage PB/M/L: 2/-/-,  Overheat: 0
The two variants give you the option between long range sniping, and possible long range missile defense as well, or going for a short range brawler. Either way you have a machine with superior speed to the other, larger designs, while keeping sufficient armour to withstand a few hits being needing to withdraw. Can also be used as part of its carrier vessel's missile defense screen.

Code: [Select]

AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  VALIDATED

Class/Model/Name:  Tanto TNT-03
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 2500
Vessel Type:       Aerospace Fighter
Rules:             Level 2, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              30 tons
Power Plant:       210 Fusion
Safe Thrust:       9
Maximum Thrust:    14
Armor Type:        Ferro-aluminum
Armament:         
    4 Medium Laser
    4 Machine Gun
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Tanto TNT-03
Mass:              30 tons

Equipment:                                                              Mass
Power Plant:  210 Fusion                                                 9.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 9
      Maximum Thrust: 14
Structural Integrity: 9                                                   .00
Total Heat Sinks:    10 Single                                            .00
Fuel:                                                                    4.00
Cockpit & Attitude Thrusters:                                            3.00
Armor Type:  Ferro-aluminum  (125 total armor pts)                       7.00
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Nose:                                 42
   Left/Right Wings:                  31/31
   Aft:                                  21

Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4 Medium Laser             Nose         5     --     --     --   12      4.00
2 Machine Gun              RW           2     --     --     --    0      1.00
2 Machine Gun              LW           2     --     --     --    0      1.00
  Ammo (MG) 200            ---                                           1.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                                    Heat: 12     30.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        1,780,315 C-Bills
Battle Value:      756
Cost per BV:       2,354.91
Weapon Value:      1,258 (Ratio = 1.66)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 21;  MRV = 0;  LRV = 0;  ERV = 0
BattleForce2:      MP: 9,  Armor/Structure: 3 / 0
                   Damage PB/M/L: 3/-/-,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: FL;  Point Value: 8
Based upon the -02, this machine replaced the missile rack with a quartet of medium lasers, for improved armour penetration.

Code: [Select]

  AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  VALIDATED

Class/Model/Name:  Tanto TNT-04
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 2600
Vessel Type:       Aerospace Fighter
Rules:             Level 2, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              30 tons
Power Plant:       240 XL Fusion
Safe Thrust:       10
Maximum Thrust:    15
Armor Type:        Ferro-aluminum
Armament:         
    5 Medium Laser
    6 Machine Gun
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Tanto TNT-04
Mass:              30 tons

Equipment:                                                              Mass
Power Plant:  240 XL Fusion                                              6.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 10
      Maximum Thrust: 15
Structural Integrity: 10                                                  .00
Total Heat Sinks:    10 Double                                            .00
Fuel:                                                                    4.00
Cockpit & Attitude Thrusters:                                            3.00
Armor Type:  Ferro-aluminum  (143 total armor pts)                       8.00
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Nose:                                 50
   Left/Right Wings:                  35/35
   Aft:                                  23

Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 Medium Laser             Nose         5     --     --     --   15      5.00
3 Machine Gun              RW           2     --     --     --    0      1.50
3 Machine Gun              LW           2     --     --     --    0      1.50
  Ammo (MG) 200            ---                                           1.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                                    Heat: 15     30.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        3,689,315 C-Bills
Battle Value:      1,011
Cost per BV:       3,649.17
Weapon Value:      1,482 (Ratio = 1.47)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 34;  MRV = 0;  LRV = 0;  ERV = 0
BattleForce2:      MP: 10,  Armor/Structure: 4 / 0
                   Damage PB/M/L: 4/-/-,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: FL;  Point Value: 10

The -04 makes use of XL Engine technology to free up space for a fifth laser, as well as a larger, more powerful engine and an additional ton of armour. Double Heat Sinks fix the minor heat issues the -03 suffered.

[Smegish]

And now the 50-ton Wakizashi

Code: [Select]

  AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  VALIDATED

Class/Model/Name:  Wakizashi WAK-01
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 2400
Vessel Type:       Aerospace Fighter
Rules:             Level 2, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              50 tons
Power Plant:       250 Fusion
Safe Thrust:       7
Maximum Thrust:    11
Armor Type:        Ferro-aluminum
Armament:         
    2 Autocannon/5
    2 Machine Gun
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Wakizashi WAK-01
Mass:              50 tons

Equipment:                                                              Mass
Power Plant:  250 Fusion                                                12.50
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 7
      Maximum Thrust: 11
Structural Integrity: 7                                                   .00
Total Heat Sinks:    10 Single                                            .00
Fuel:                                                                    5.00
Cockpit & Attitude Thrusters:                                            3.00
Armor Type:  Ferro-aluminum  (170 total armor pts)                       9.50
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Nose:                                 58
   Left/Right Wings:                  42/42
   Aft:                                  28

Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Autocannon/5             Nose         5      5     --     --    2     16.00
  Ammo (AC/5) 40           ---                                           2.00
2 Machine Guns             Nose           4     --     --     --    0       1.00
  Ammo (MG) 200            ---                                           1.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                                     Heat: 2     50.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        2,551,042 C-Bills
Battle Value:      740
Cost per BV:       3,447.35
Weapon Value:      1,129 (Ratio = 1.53)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 13;  MRV = 7;  LRV = 0;  ERV = 0
BattleForce2:      MP: 7,  Armor/Structure: 4 / 0
                   Damage PB/M/L: 1/1/-,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: FM;  Point Value: 7


Code: [Select]

                   AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  VALIDATED

Class/Model/Name:  Wakizashi WAK-02
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 2400
Vessel Type:       Aerospace Fighter
Rules:             Level 2, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              50 tons
Power Plant:       250 Fusion
Safe Thrust:       7
Maximum Thrust:    11
Armor Type:        Ferro-aluminum
Armament:         
    1 Autocannon/5
    4 Machine Gun
    2 SRM 6
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Wakizashi WAK-02
Mass:              50 tons

Equipment:                                                              Mass
Power Plant:  250 Fusion                                                12.50
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 7
      Maximum Thrust: 11
Structural Integrity: 7                                                   .00
Total Heat Sinks:    10 Single                                            .00
Fuel:                                                                    5.00
Cockpit & Attitude Thrusters:                                            3.00
Armor Type:  Ferro-aluminum  (170 total armor pts)                       9.50
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Nose:                                 58
   Left/Right Wings:                  42/42
   Aft:                                  28

Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Autocannon/5             Nose         5      5     --     --    1      8.00
  Ammo (AC/5) 20           ---                                           1.00
2 Machine Gun              RW           2     --     --     --    0      1.00
2 Machine Gun              LW           2     --     --     --    0      1.00
  Ammo (MG) 200            ---                                           1.00
1 SRM 6                    RW           8     --     --     --    4      3.00
1 SRM 6                    LW           8     --     --     --    4      3.00
  Ammo (SRM 6) 30          ---                                           2.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                                     Heat: 9     50.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        2,736,667 C-Bills
Battle Value:      827
Cost per BV:       3,309.15
Weapon Value:      1,140 (Ratio = 1.38)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 27;  MRV = 4;  LRV = 0;  ERV = 0
BattleForce2:      MP: 7,  Armor/Structure: 4 / 0
                   Damage PB/M/L: 3/1/-,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: FM;  Point Value: 8
Much like the Tanto, the choice must be made between long range or short range firepower, though less focused. Much like the Tanto it can also serve as a last ditch missile screen for its carrier vessel.

Code: [Select]

                    AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  VALIDATED

Class/Model/Name:  Wakizashi WAK-03
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 2500
Vessel Type:       Aerospace Fighter
Rules:             Level 2, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              50 tons
Power Plant:       250 Fusion
Safe Thrust:       7
Maximum Thrust:    11
Armor Type:        Ferro-aluminum
Armament:         
    1 PPC
    3 Medium Laser
    4 Machine Gun
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Wakizashi WAK-03
Mass:              50 tons

Equipment:                                                              Mass
Power Plant:  250 Fusion                                                12.50
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 7
      Maximum Thrust: 11
Structural Integrity: 7                                                   .00
Total Heat Sinks:    16 Single                                           6.00
Fuel:                                                                    5.00
Cockpit & Attitude Thrusters:                                            3.00
Armor Type:  Ferro-aluminum  (188 total armor pts)                      10.50
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Nose:                                 63
   Left/Right Wings:                  47/47
   Aft:                                  31

Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 PPC                      Nose        10     10     --     --   10      7.00
1 Medium Laser             Nose         5     --     --     --    3      1.00
2 Machine Gun              RW           2     --     --     --    0      1.00
2 Machine Gun              LW           2     --     --     --    0      1.00
  Ammo (MG) 200            ---                                           1.00
1 Medium Laser             RW           5     --     --     --    3      1.00
1 Medium Laser             LW           5     --     --     --    3      1.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                                    Heat: 19     50.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        2,679,792 C-Bills
Battle Value:      1,059
Cost per BV:       2,530.49
Weapon Value:      1,591 (Ratio = 1.50)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 25;  MRV = 6;  LRV = 0;  ERV = 0
BattleForce2:      MP: 7,  Armor/Structure: 5 / 0
                   Damage PB/M/L: 3/1/-,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: FM;  Point Value: 11
Replaces the AC/5 with a PPC, and the SRM racks with lasers to relieve the Wakizashi of ammunition concerns, though heat is a factor. Also the armour was improved by a ton.

Code: [Select]

                   AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  VALIDATED

Class/Model/Name:  Wakizashi WAK-04
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 2600
Vessel Type:       Aerospace Fighter
Rules:             Level 2, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              50 tons
Power Plant:       250 XL Fusion
Safe Thrust:       7
Maximum Thrust:    11
Armor Type:        Ferro-aluminum
Armament:         
    1 PPC
    2 Large Laser
    4 Machine Gun
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Wakizashi WAK-04
Mass:              50 tons

Equipment:                                                              Mass
Power Plant:  250 XL Fusion                                              6.50
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 7
      Maximum Thrust: 11
Structural Integrity: 7                                                   .00
Total Heat Sinks:    13 Double                                           3.00
Fuel:                                                                    5.00
Cockpit & Attitude Thrusters:                                            3.00
Armor Type:  Ferro-aluminum  (224 total armor pts)                      12.50
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Nose:                                 75
   Left/Right Wings:                  56/56
   Aft:                                  37

Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 PPC                      Nose        10     10     --     --   10      7.00
1 Large Laser              RW           8      8     --     --    8      5.00
1 Large Laser              LW           8      8     --     --    8      5.00
2 Machine Gun              RW           2     --     --     --    0      1.00
2 Machine Gun              LW           2     --     --     --    0      1.00
  Ammo (MG) 200            ---                                           1.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                                    Heat: 26     50.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        6,012,292 C-Bills
Battle Value:      1,403
Cost per BV:       4,285.31
Weapon Value:      1,757 (Ratio = 1.25)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 31;  MRV = 19;  LRV = 0;  ERV = 0
BattleForce2:      MP: 7,  Armor/Structure: 6 / 0
                   Damage PB/M/L: 3/3/-,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: FM;  Point Value: 14
The weight freed up by the use of an XL Engine and Double Heat Sinks allows the -04 to carry 3 large energy weapons to punch through all but the thickest of ASF armour.

[Smegish]

And finally, the 80-ton Yari (Spear)

Code: [Select]

                   AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  VALIDATED

Class/Model/Name:  Yari YAR-01
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 2400
Vessel Type:       Aerospace Fighter
Rules:             Level 2, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              80 tons
Power Plant:       320 Fusion
Safe Thrust:       6
Maximum Thrust:    9
Armor Type:        Ferro-aluminum
Armament:         
    8 Machine Gun
    3 Autocannon/5
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Yari YAR-01
Mass:              80 tons

Equipment:                                                              Mass
Power Plant:  320 Fusion                                                22.50
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 6
      Maximum Thrust: 9
Structural Integrity: 8                                                   .00
Total Heat Sinks:    10 Single                                            .00
Fuel:                                                                    5.00
Cockpit & Attitude Thrusters:                                            3.00
Armor Type:  Ferro-aluminum  (278 total armor pts)                      15.50
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Nose:                                 94
   Left/Right Wings:                  69/69
   Aft:                                  46

Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Machine Gun              Nose         2     --     --     --    0      1.00
  Ammo (MG) 200            ---                                           1.00
1 Autocannon/5             Nose         5      5     --     --    1      8.00
  Ammo (AC/5) 20           ---                                           1.00
1 Autocannon/5             RW           5      5     --     --    1      8.00
1 Autocannon/5             LW           5      5     --     --    1      8.00
  Ammo (AC/5) 40           ---                                           2.00
2 Machine Gun              RW           2     --     --     --    0      1.00
2 Machine Gun              LW           2     --     --     --    0      1.00
  Ammo (MG) 200            ---                                           1.00
2 Machine Gun              Aft          2     --     --     --    0      1.00
  Ammo (MG) 200            ---                                           1.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                                     Heat: 3     80.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        4,640,953 C-Bills
Battle Value:      1,084
Cost per BV:       4,281.32
Weapon Value:      1,499 (Ratio = 1.38)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 28;  MRV = 11;  LRV = 0;  ERV = 0
BattleForce2:      MP: 6,  Armor/Structure: 7 / 0
                   Damage PB/M/L: 3/2/-,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: FH;  Point Value: 11

Code: [Select]

                  AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  VALIDATED

Class/Model/Name:  Yari YAR-02
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 2400
Vessel Type:       Aerospace Fighter
Rules:             Level 2, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              80 tons
Power Plant:       320 Fusion
Safe Thrust:       6
Maximum Thrust:    9
Armor Type:        Ferro-aluminum
Armament:         
    6 Machine Gun
    1 Autocannon/5
    2 LRM 15
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Yari YAR-02
Mass:              80 tons

Equipment:                                                              Mass
Power Plant:  320 Fusion                                                22.50
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 6
      Maximum Thrust: 9
Structural Integrity: 8                                                   .00
Total Heat Sinks:    11 Single                                           1.00
Fuel:                                                                    5.00
Cockpit & Attitude Thrusters:                                            3.00
Armor Type:  Ferro-aluminum  (296 total armor pts)                      16.50
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Nose:                                 99
   Left/Right Wings:                  74/74
   Aft:                                  49

Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Machine Gun              Nose         2     --     --     --    0      1.00
  Ammo (MG) 200            ---                                           1.00
1 Autocannon/5             Nose         5      5     --     --    1      8.00
  Ammo (AC/5) 20           ---                                           1.00
1 LRM 15                   RW           9      9      9     --    5      7.00
1 LRM 15                   LW           9      9      9     --    5      7.00
  Ammo (LRM 15) 32         ---                                           4.00
2 Machine Gun              RW           2     --     --     --    0      1.00
2 Machine Gun              LW           2     --     --     --    0      1.00
  Ammo (MG) 200            ---                                           1.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                                    Heat: 11     80.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        5,107,153 C-Bills
Battle Value:      1,359
Cost per BV:       3,758.02
Weapon Value:      1,711 (Ratio = 1.26)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 32;  MRV = 17;  LRV = 5;  ERV = 0
BattleForce2:      MP: 6,  Armor/Structure: 7 / 0
                   Damage PB/M/L: 4/2/2,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: FH;  Point Value: 14
Machine guns scattered across both designs make the Yari quite effective as part of a anti-missile screen, while the 3 AC/5s (for simplicity's sake) or a single AC/5 backed by LRM 15's racks in each wing give it ample firepower to deal with enemy strike craft.

Code: [Select]

                   AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  VALIDATED

Class/Model/Name:  Yari YAR-03
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 2500
Vessel Type:       Aerospace Fighter
Rules:             Level 2, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              80 tons
Power Plant:       320 Fusion
Safe Thrust:       6
Maximum Thrust:    9
Armor Type:        Ferro-aluminum
Armament:         
    2 Machine Gun
    1 PPC
    2 LRM 15
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Yari YAR-03
Mass:              80 tons

Equipment:                                                              Mass
Power Plant:  320 Fusion                                                22.50
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 6
      Maximum Thrust: 9
Structural Integrity: 8                                                   .00
Total Heat Sinks:    16 Single                                           6.00
Fuel:                                                                    5.00
Cockpit & Attitude Thrusters:                                            3.00
Armor Type:  Ferro-aluminum  (296 total armor pts)                      16.50
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Nose:                                 99
   Left/Right Wings:                  74/74
   Aft:                                  49

Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Machine Gun              Nose         2     --     --     --    0      1.00
  Ammo (MG) 200            ---                                           1.00
1 PPC                      Nose        10     10     --     --   10      7.00
1 LRM 15                   RW           9      9      9     --    5      7.00
1 LRM 15                   LW           9      9      9     --    5      7.00
  Ammo (LRM 15) 32         ---                                           4.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                                    Heat: 20     80.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        5,189,053 C-Bills
Battle Value:      1,418
Cost per BV:       3,659.42
Weapon Value:      1,995 (Ratio = 1.41)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 23;  MRV = 16;  LRV = 4;  ERV = 0
BattleForce2:      MP: 6,  Armor/Structure: 7 / 0
                   Damage PB/M/L: 3/3/2,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: FH;  Point Value: 14
Based upon the -02, this variant replaces the AC/5 with a PPC, which aids the one-shot-kill potential of the craft, but leaves it with potential heat issues if all the firepower is used at once.

Code: [Select]

                  AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  VALIDATED

Class/Model/Name:  Yari YAR-04
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 2600
Vessel Type:       Aerospace Fighter
Rules:             Level 2, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              80 tons
Power Plant:       320 XL Fusion
Safe Thrust:       6
Maximum Thrust:    9
Armor Type:        Ferro-aluminum
Armament:         
    1 Autocannon/20
    4 Machine Gun
    2 PPC
    2 Medium Laser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Yari YAR-04
Mass:              80 tons

Equipment:                                                              Mass
Power Plant:  320 XL Fusion                                             11.50
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 6
      Maximum Thrust: 9
Structural Integrity: 8                                                   .00
Total Heat Sinks:    14 Double                                           4.00
Fuel:                                                                    5.00
Cockpit & Attitude Thrusters:                                            3.00
Armor Type:  Ferro-aluminum  (332 total armor pts)                      18.50
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Nose:                                111
   Left/Right Wings:                  83/83
   Aft:                                  55

Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Autocannon/20            Nose        20     --     --     --    7     14.00
  Ammo (AC/20) 20          ---                                           4.00
2 Machine Gun              RW           2     --     --     --    0      1.00
2 Machine Gun              LW           2     --     --     --    0      1.00
  Ammo (MG) 400            ---                                           2.00
1 PPC                      RW          10     10     --     --   10      7.00
1 PPC                      LW          10     10     --     --   10      7.00
2 Medium Laser             Aft          5     --     --     --    6      2.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                                    Heat: 33     80.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        12,546,053 C-Bills
Battle Value:      1,767
Cost per BV:       7,100.2
Weapon Value:      2,495 (Ratio = 1.41)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 45;  MRV = 12;  LRV = 0;  ERV = 0
BattleForce2:      MP: 6,  Armor/Structure: 8 / 0
                   Damage PB/M/L: 5/2/-,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: FH;  Point Value: 18
The -04 sees the whole fighter rebuilt from the ground up, with a nose-mounted AC/20 for breaking open fighters or dropships at close range, and a PPC in each wing for medium range engagements. The armour is also substantially improved.

[Jester Motley]

The David is probably too big for its role, especially if I want some below-max-size SC. Seems like a bit less speed and a bit less armour would let you cut it down to maybe 120 tons or so, and it'd be a rare situation where you'd use 5.5g of thrust with 150 guys inside. But the design principles are solid.

I'd imagine any combat dropper would want as much "dodge and juke" as possible for entering and exiting a hot LZ, not to mention armor.  And if its used as a boarding shuttle, the armor and thrust also make sense.

With my merc force I occasionally end up with missions where a DS is involved, and with just 3025 tanks, armor is -critical-...  Although, to be fair, not many people intentionally crash Union droppers into enemy formations like I do...  "I came in like a wreeeeecking balll.... so hard I blew a lannnnce away..."

Side note...  The rules as written mean that on average, _elite_ pilots will crash a spheroid dropship roughly 11% of the time, just doing normal flight maneuvers in atmosphere.  Things like landing or taking off.  Not combat operations, not while taking fire, just flying around... 

[Lagrange]

Here's an all-roles infantry shuttle.   200 ton Aerodyne, 6/9, 6x MG, 6x Infantry Platoon (=2 companies), 6.5 tons cargo, 45 tons armor, 5 tons fuel.  Variants for motorized/mechanized infantry can support 4 platoons with some cargo.

Code: [Select]

200 ton Smallcraft Centauro Aerodyne Combat Shuttle
Base Tech Level: Standard (IS)
Tech Rating: D/D-E-D-D

Weight: 200 tons
BV: 1,951
Cost: 15,232,600 C-bills

Movement: 6/9
Heat Sinks: 1
Fuel Points: 400/400 (5.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84

Structural Integrity: 10
Armor: 760
            Armor 
-------------------
Nose          228 
Left Side     190 
Right Side    190 
Aft           152 

Weapons      Loc  Heat 
------------------------
Machine Gun  NOS    0   
Machine Gun  NOS    0   
Machine Gun  NOS    0   
Machine Gun  NOS    0   
Machine Gun  NOS    0   
Machine Gun  NOS    0   

Ammo                   Loc  Shots 
-----------------------------------
Half Machine Gun Ammo  NOS    100 

Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Infantry Bay (1 door) - 6 Foot platoons
Cargo Space (1 door) - 6.5 tons

Crew                   
-----------------------
Officers              1
Enlisted/Non-rated    2
Gunners               1
Bay Personnel       168

If you really want a light version, here's a 150 ton one.  6/9, 6x MG, 3x Infantry Platoon (=1 company), 9 tons cargo, 30 tons armor, 5 tons fuel.  Variants for motorized/mechanized infantry can support 3/2 platoons with cargo.

Code: [Select]

150 ton Smallcraft Centauro Aerodyne Company Combat Shuttle
Base Tech Level: Standard (IS)
Tech Rating: D/D-E-D-D

Weight: 150 tons
BV: 1,339
Cost: 9,410,080 C-bills

Movement: 6/9
Heat Sinks: 0
Fuel Points: 400/400 (5.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84

Structural Integrity: 9
Armor: 516
            Armor 
-------------------
Nose          155 
Left Side     129 
Right Side    129 
Aft           103 

Weapons      Loc  Heat 
------------------------
Machine Gun  NOS    0   
Machine Gun  NOS    0   
Machine Gun  NOS    0   
Machine Gun  NOS    0   
Machine Gun  NOS    0   
Machine Gun  NOS    0   

Ammo                   Loc  Shots 
-----------------------------------
Half Machine Gun Ammo  NOS    100 

Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Infantry Bay (1 door) - 3.0 Foot platoons
Cargo Space (1 door) - 9 tons

Crew                 
----------------------
Officers             1
Enlisted/Non-rated   2
Gunners              1
Bay Personnel       84


[truetanker]

Are these just generic use or faction based?

And I want to see what a Yuri looks like from Smegish! ( LRM based )

TT

[Smegish]

Alsadius asked for generic, so I'm giving generic.

And the YARI -02 probably resembles an Ostrogoth or Wusun, at least in weapon layout. Bodywork wouldn't look that cool yet.

[Lagrange]

Here are 4 specialized dropships.  All of these except the assault dropship are aerodyne to support atmospheric operations if they are necessary.  They also each have 200 tons of fuel.

A carrier.  Aerodyne 3/5, 12 ASF bays each with 100 tons of cargo + 63 extra tons of cargo, 12x MG in RW/LW, 8x MG in Nose (32x MG total forward facing), 4x LRM-20 in Nose, 2x LRM-20 Aft, 10x MG Aft, 54 tons FA armor.  Includes quarters for all bay personnel.

Code: [Select]

5000 ton dropship Carrier
Base Tech Level: Standard (IS)
Tech Rating: E/E-F(F*)-E-E

Weight: 5000 tons
BV: 3,855
Cost: 232,516,800 C-bills

Movement: 3/5
Heat Sinks: 48
Fuel Points: 6000 (200.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84

Structural Integrity: 12
Armor: 1015 (Ferro-Aluminum)
            Armor 
-------------------
Nose          304 
Left Side     254 
Right Side    254 
Aft           203 

Weapons            Loc  Heat 
------------------------------
LRM Bay            NOS   24   
4x LRM 20                       
 LRM 20 Ammo         78       
Point Defense Bay  NOS    0   
 8x Machine Gun                   
 Machine Gun Ammo   200       
Point Defense Bay   RS    0   
 12x Machine Gun                   
 Machine Gun Ammo   200       
Point Defense Bay   LS    0   
 12x Machine Gun                   
 Machine Gun Ammo   200       
LRM Bay            AFT   12   
2x LRM 20                       
 LRM 20 Ammo         36       
Point Defense Bay  AFT    0   
 10x Machine Gun                   
 Machine Gun Ammo   200       

Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Aerospace Fighter (6 doors) - 12 units (12 recovery open)
Cargo Space (2 doors) - 1,263 tons

Crew                 
----------------------
Officers             3
Enlisted/Non-rated   2
Gunners              8
Bay Personnel       24

An armor transport.  Aerodyne 3/5, 36 light vehicle bays (Variant: 18 heavy vehicle) +305 tons of cargo, 12x MG in RW/LW, 8x MG in Nose (32x MG total forward facing), 4x LRM-20 in Nose, 2x LRM-20 Aft, 10x MG Aft, 54 tons FA armor.  Includes quarters for all bay personnel.

Code: [Select]

5000 ton dropship Battalion
Base Tech Level: Standard (IS)
Tech Rating: E/E-F(F*)-E-E

Weight: 5000 tons
BV: 3,780
Cost: 269,380,800 C-bills

Movement: 3/5
Heat Sinks: 48
Fuel Points: 6000 (200.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84

Structural Integrity: 12
Armor: 1015 (Ferro-Aluminum)
            Armor 
-------------------
Nose          304 
Left Side     254 
Right Side    254 
Aft           203 

Weapons            Loc  Heat 
------------------------------
LRM Bay            NOS   24   
 4x LRM 20                       
 LRM 20 Ammo         60       
Point Defense Bay  NOS    0   
 8x Machine Gun                   
 Machine Gun Ammo   200       
Point Defense Bay   RS    0   
 12x Machine Gun                   
 Machine Gun Ammo   200       
Point Defense Bay   LS    0   
 12x Machine Gun                   
 Machine Gun Ammo   200       
LRM Bay            AFT   12   
 2x LRM 20                       
 LRM 20 Ammo         30       
Point Defense Bay  AFT    0   
 10x Machine Gun                   
 Machine Gun Ammo   200       

Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Light Vehicle Bay (7 doors) - 36 units
Cargo Space (1 door) - 305 tons

Crew                   
-----------------------
Officers              3
Enlisted/Non-rated    2
Gunners               8
Bay Personnel       180

A militarized cargo craft.  Aerodyne 3/5, 3383.5 tons of cargo, 8x MG in Nose, 2x LRM-20 in Nose, LRM-20 Aft, 10x MG Aft, 40.5 tons armor. 

Code: [Select]

5000 ton dropship Cargo
Base Tech Level: Standard (IS)
Tech Rating: D/E-E-E-E

Weight: 5000 tons
BV: 2,367
Cost: 150,904,800 C-bills

Movement: 3/5
Heat Sinks: 48
Fuel Points: 6000 (200.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84

Structural Integrity: 9
Armor: 684
            Armor 
-------------------
Nose          206 
Left Side     171 
Right Side    171 
Aft           136 

Weapons            Loc  Heat 
------------------------------
LRM Bay            NOS   12   
 2x LRM 20                       
 LRM 20 Ammo         42       
Point Defense Bay  NOS    0   
 8x Machine Gun                   
 Machine Gun Ammo   200       
LRM Bay            AFT    6   
 LRM 20                       
 LRM 20 Ammo         18       
Point Defense Bay  AFT    0   
 10x Machine Gun                   
 Machine Gun Ammo   200       

Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Cargo Space (8 doors) - 3,383.500 tons

Crew                 
---------------------
Officers            2
Enlisted/Non-rated  3
Gunners             4
Bay Personnel       0

An assault dropship.  Spheroid 7/11, 1 smallcraft bay (could be used for a marine transport) +178 tons of cargo, 10x LRM-20 in Nose, 2xBarracuda in Nose, Killer Whale in Nose, 12x MG in FR/FL/AR/AL,  2x LRM-20 Aft, 10x MG Aft, 79 tons FA armor.  Includes quarters for all bay personnel.

Code: [Select]

5000 ton dropship Assault
Base Tech Level: Standard (IS)
Tech Rating: E/E-F(F*)-E-E

Weight: 5000 tons
BV: 14,730
Cost: 305,726,400 C-bills

Movement: 7/11
Heat Sinks: 124
Fuel Points: 6000 (200.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84

Structural Integrity: 22
Armor: 1503 (Ferro-Aluminum)
            Armor 
-------------------
Nose          451 
Left Side     376 
Right Side    376 
Aft           300 

Weapons                                  Loc  Heat 
----------------------------------------------------
LRM Bay                                  NOS   54   
 9x LRM 20                                             
 LRM 20 Ammo                              180       
Capital Missile Bay                      NOS   40   
 2x Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda)               
 Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
 Barracuda Ammo                            20       
 Killer Whale Ammo                         10       
Point Defense Bay                         FR    0   
 12x Machine Gun                                         
 Machine Gun Ammo                         600       
Point Defense Bay                     AR    0   
 12x Machine Gun                                     
 Machine Gun Ammo                         600       
Point Defense Bay                        FL    0   
 12x Machine Gun                                         
 Machine Gun Ammo                         600       
Point Defense Bay                       AL    0   
 12x Machine Gun                                     
 Machine Gun Ammo                         600       
LRM Bay                                  AFT   12   
 2x LRM 20                                             
 LRM 20 Ammo                               36       
Point Defense Bay                        AFT    0   
 10x Machine Gun                                         
 Machine Gun Ammo                         600       

Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Small Craft (1 door) - 1 unit (2 recovery open)
Cargo Space (1 door) - 178 tons

Crew                 
----------------------
Officers             5
Enlisted/Non-rated   0
Gunners             15
Bay Personnel        5

Edit: changed Assault to Spheroid.

[Lagrange]

One more: a 5/8 missile defense smallcraft.   200 ton spheroid, 5/8, 5 tons of fuel, 50 tons FA armor, 36x MG in Nose, 2 tons cargo.

I considered making an anti-fighter smallcraft but I don't see smallcraft as effective in an anti-fighter role.  They are slow (lose initiative), they cost substantially more, they require substantially more tonnage for consumables, and they don't even generally give an advantage over ASF in weapons per transport tonnage at 5/8.  In contrast, a single missile defense smallcraft is worth 2-3 ASF in the same role which provides an advantage in transport tonnage. 

Code: [Select]

200 ton Fireshield Missile Defense Smallcraft
Base Tech Level: Standard (IS)
Tech Rating: D/D-E-D-D

Weight: 200 tons
BV: 2,644
Cost: 16,690,100 C-bills

Movement: 5/8
Heat Sinks: 10
Fuel Points: 400 (5.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84

Structural Integrity: 14
Armor: 952 (Ferro-Aluminum)
            Armor 
-------------------
Nose          286 
Left Side     238 
Right Side    238 
Aft           190 

Weapons      Loc  Heat 
------------------------
36x Machine Gun  NOS    0   

Ammo              Loc  Shots 
------------------------------
Machine Gun Ammo  NOS    600 

Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Cargo Space (1 door) - 2 tons

Crew                 
---------------------
Officers            2
Enlisted/Non-rated  1
Gunners             6
Bay Personnel       0


[marcussmythe]

I really wish robotic controls were further advanced in this era.  Ive a mental image of drone fighters and small craft providing anti-fighter/anti missile defense - effectively ablative, cause there is no human cost.  Fighters faster, the small craft being almost like detached turrets, with one more safe thrust than the warship for station keeping.

But that starts to feel more ‘Culture’ and less ‘WW 1-2 in spaaace..’

[truetanker]

I'd prefer slow as crap old-school ' Ironclad ' Corvettes over blundering fast BBs myself.

How goes the writing?

* pokes Mr. GM with a half-eaten corncob in the jibs *

TT

[Alsadius]

How goes the writing?

* pokes Mr. GM with a half-eaten corncob in the jibs *

Frankly, shitty. I haven't had a lot of free time the last few weeks, and I've had real trouble getting into the writing when I have had time. I'm getting through it, but far slower than I want to be.

That said, I have a new tech list up on the master spreadsheet. It's using the same rules as outlined above, except that I'll make RWR and MH adjacent for tech spread, and I'm still a bit undecided on how to buff periphery tech - I'm thinking of either giving small nations a 3-for-1 deal on the first billion they invest in tech each turn, or possibly just buffing periphery budgets substantially. Doubling them(except for the UHC) seems like it could be fitting as well as more fun, but that puts the LC (and to a lesser extent FS and FWL) in an interesting position, because they'll have much stronger threats on the outsides of their realms than they've had up until now.

In any case, you can take a look at which techs will be available.

[Lagrange]

Frankly, shitty. I haven't had a lot of free time the last few weeks, and I've had real trouble getting into the writing when I have had time. I'm getting through it, but far slower than I want to be.

Would making things more incremental be helpful?  (More generally, what would be helpful?)

[truetanker]

Ohh... shiny new tech tree!

Me likey...

Whatever you want to gives us lil' folk, I'm in! ( As if duh, fur shore boss dude(tte?)! Most exultant! ) > me watching to much Bill & Ted's Adventure(s) re-runs  xp <

So if I get this right, let's say I dump in about 3-4 Billion next turn, straight cash, how would that increase my ability to this newer list? Would this, in game, allow me to do espionage, which we agreed wasn't allowed but technically is but not for us to play Black Ops, later? As in, " you've paid some people to keep their eyes and ears open, preferable your neighbors people to spy for you " so you can get a chance to see what they are pre- building / developing currently this ' turn ' for next. In other words, your chances for their tech in the lab is X-amount percentage for X-amount cash, which only I - Alsadius, your resident Lord and Mas....  :thumbsup: - can decide.

Pay X get X chance to get neighbor's tech before they deploy! Or is something that hasn't cross your collective mind yet? In a sense, we can piggy-back the new tech same decade!

TT

EDIT:

Just checked my side of the spreadsheet... needs to update: Ribe station- I do NOT have 120 stations! That's Marcus, I really don't want to be a periphery LC clone, thank you very much!

As of turn 6, I have the following added to my current list:

Code: [Select]

Buying, Ribe Station, Steiner:      .175 Million ( x1 total ) Alphard
Buying, Onsen Station, Kurita:     .551 Million ( x1 total ) Lothario
Buying, Tenshi Station, Kurita:   2.628 Billion ( x6 total ) 4 Alphard, 2 Lothario
Buying, Small Craft:                     .300 Million ( 30 Small craft )
Buying, Jumpship:                      2 Billion ( x4 total )
Buying, Dropship:                       3.600 Billion ( x12 total )
Buying, Ala x 10 ( 10 asf each )   .500 Million ( 100 fighters )
Thanks!

( And so I don't have to re-scroll to find my ending budget: End Turn 6 Budget: 1 Billion, 637 Million )

[Lagrange]

I was trying to reconcile something confusing and discovered there is a bug in the warship design worksheet.   

SO page 160 states that quarters & infantry bays are free on all advanced aerospace units.  This does not obviate the need for life support (at 5K/head), but it means the the choice of quarter should not matter.  From experimenting, it appears that the cost of quarters used is 30K for first class, 15K for second class, and 10K(?) for steerage, all of which should be zero instead (while keeping the 5K/head for life support).

[Alsadius]

Would making things more incremental be helpful?  (More generally, what would be helpful?)

Sadly, this isn't one you guys can help much with. Most of it boils down to my RL - I've been busier at work and less able to take long lunches for writing, and busier at home with less ability to block off lots of time.

I was trying to reconcile something confusing and discovered there is a bug in the warship design worksheet.   

SO page 160 states that quarters & infantry bays are free on all advanced aerospace units.  This does not obviate the need for life support (at 5K/head), but it means the the choice of quarter should not matter.  From experimenting, it appears that the cost of quarters used is 30K for first class, 15K for second class, and 10K(?) for steerage, all of which should be zero instead (while keeping the 5K/head for life support).

Look at the top of page 159 - crew quarters have a cost per page 293 of Tech Manual, which is non-zero. I read that as saying that it's built into the base cost of the ship, instead of being a separate entry in the equipment list. I'm not sure of this, however, and the errata provides no clarification.

[Lagrange]

Look at the top of page 159 - crew quarters have a cost per page 293 of Tech Manual, which is non-zero. I read that as saying that it's built into the base cost of the ship, instead of being a separate entry in the equipment list. I'm not sure of this, however, and the errata provides no clarification.

Page 160 is all about the cost, so the special exemptions paragraph is definitely about the cost rather than the equipment list in context.  It looks like the contradiction is only confined to crew quarters and (maybe) infantry bays.  Passenger quarters are not addressed in the table with only the text on page 160 discusses their cost (i.e. free).

I asked for a rules clarification here although it may take some time to get an official answer. I vaguely expect "free" is the right answer as the amount of thought going into a paragraph probably exceeds the amount of thought going into a table entry. 

[Lagrange]

Another one: I was looking into cheap warships for which the Scapha stands out since it's half the price of anything else.  However, I can't replicate it in the spreadsheet, instead getting something around 4B.  I suspect the difference is the support system cost (1.2B)?  Having no support systems cost in return for only being able to jump 16 light years seems reasonable enough.  Nevertheless, I wanted to make sure that's kosher before considering such possibilities.

[marcussmythe]

Primitive Cores are much less expensive...

[Lagrange]

Primitive Cores are much less expensive...

That makes some sense, but what is the price supposed to be?  The price doesn't seem to be in the spreadsheet.

[truetanker]

My Scapha are based off the navalized Aquilla, uses primitive core and is considered a warship only because they use transit drives.

TT

[Lagrange]

My Scapha are based off the navalized Aquilla, uses primitive core and is considered a warship only because they use transit drives.

TT

Right.  I'm just trying to figure out how to replicate it.   

Interstellar Operation page 187 says:

... the costs for all of the primitive forms of the various aerospace unit types that are larger than aerospace fighter may be computed as normal for those unit types.

... which suggests calculating things for a primitive jumpship with costs like a jumpship.  It also says:

... for cost purposes, all Primitive K-F jump drives are treated compact-core drives, rather than standard core drives.

So, the right thing to do is to charge a support systems cost like a jumpship but with a K-F drive price like a compact core?  Doing this, I get 1.66B for my Scapha simulator which is somewhat cheaper.  (Of course, with a 16 light year jump, it's also quite slow on strategic scales).

[Hairbear541]

been a while since i have been able to check in here , rl does have a way messing things up . so my question is who has which faction now , and has any new writeups been posted ?

[Lagrange]

been a while since i have been able to check in here , rl does have a way messing things up . so my question is who has which faction now , and has any new writeups been posted ?

See links from the original post.

[Lagrange]

So, the right thing to do is to charge a support systems cost like a jumpship but with a K-F drive price like a compact core?  Doing this, I get 1.66B for my Scapha simulator which is somewhat cheaper.  (Of course, with a 16 light year jump, it's also quite slow on strategic scales).

Thinking about this further, the two bits that I'm confused about price-wise are:

• Warship multiplier (x2) or Jumpship multiplier (x1.25)? 
• Warship support (2k/ton+1B) or Jumpship support (1K/ton)? 

Jumpship multiplier + jumpship support => 1.037B
Warship multiplier + jumpship support => 1.659B
Jumpship multiplier + warship support => 2.412B
Warship multiplier + warship support => 3.859B

[Lagrange]

There is a Q&A answer here which says that the answer is "warship support, warship multiplier".

[marcussmythe]

Then primitive core jumpships cost just as much as full warships?  The error is mine as I designed those.  I cross checked the soreadhseet Im using with the one everyone else is for some warships, but did not for the primitive.  If you can nail down how much it should have cost, Ill cover the difference out of next turns budget.

[Lagrange]

Then primitive core jumpships cost just as much as full warships?  The error is mine as I designed those.  I cross checked the soreadhseet Im using with the one everyone else is for some warships, but did not for the primitive.  If you can nail down how much it should have cost, Ill cover the difference out of next turns budget.

I'm not sure falling on your sword is the right thing here---perhaps Alsadius should weigh in.  But, I'm bored so...

If I assume 2nd class quarters to troopers & marines and use a 15 light-year jump (like the Aquilla), my Scapha replica is just 94 tons light. 

But the cost is dependent on the other rules question about quarters.  The existing spread sheet says 3879M.  If you subtract off the passenger quarters which seems to be unambiguously the rules, you get 3861M.  If you also subtract off the crew quarters (ambiguously correct given rules pointing both ways), you get 3858M.  The base price here is 2066M, so 1813M (vanilla), 1795M (passenger quarters free), 1792M (quarters free).

The Scapha II is more of a puzzle.  The closest I can get tonnage-wise is not allocating any passenger quarters for bay personnel or troopers (hopefully your 27 bunkmates don't snore...) which leaves it 1376 tons light (a substantially larger disparity).  The cost is 5459M or 5456M if crew quarters are free with the cost increase mostly due to the drop collars.  Given the base price of 3062M, this implies a missing cost of 2397M or 2394M.

Altogether, it's 17485M(vanilla), 17359(passengers free), or 17332(quarters free).

[marcussmythe]

On the flip, given that the cost is the same, it will at least give him full up warships!