A Long Way to Go: Mechs left after the KickStarter

[Colt Ward]

after the 5 3025 Unseen (mos def) and the missing 3039 (some, maybe not all) mechs, I would not expect to see any more plastics as that would take away from IWM's metal minis and that's just not fair to IWM or players who like metal.

Despite IWM saying their BT sales increase when plastic sets are released?  Despite the eventual release of all new art minis though we do not know a timetable- btw 5? are slated for release at this time?

I look forward to a FCCW Box Set & lance boxes- the remaining Unseen, maybe quads (still not sure), iconic FedCom like the Penetrator/Falconer/Rakshasa/War Dog, remaining MW3/MW4/MC2 mechs, and hopefully some of the remaining Clan mechs like the Phantom or '67 designs.  While I would like IS BA, I figure it makes more sense for a vehicle lance to introduce them like I expect BA rules are introduced in this box.

[Cache]

Plastic will only be single piece and static pose,

Factory pre-assembled is more accurate. They can be disassembled and reposed.

[Empyrus]

Wish reimagining  process could be faster. Would love for Clan Invasion and Civil War era WoB and Marik designs get a facelift, could actually build a unit for them then. As it is, lol no.

Hell, even taking some reimagined designs and best looking existing ones doesn't work, the latter just don't match the former.

[Colt Ward]

Somehow I have managed to get the spread of Orions . . . I have the old metal one, Orion IIC, the AS Lance Pack plastic based on the metal, Orion 1M, the primitive Orion and ordered a Classic . . . the primitives IMO look so nice (though the TBolt is way out on scale even if nice), I still intend to get another prim Orion.  Going to have them spread around though personally I have not had a problem putting older sculpts next to new ones though for a representation in the FLGS I will use the latest mini to help brand appeal in whatever way I can.

[GRUD]

going from the initial post, he is looking for a list based on the current redesign strategy. That the material is plastic is mostly incidental for the list, it's just the starting point so far. At least from my understanding none of the redesigns made into metal yet.

Nope. Quite Clearly someone wanting them in plastic, RATHER THAN Metal. 


From his initial post, the List of 3925 Unseen:
"Ostscout (yes, you can get it in metal. metal isn't plastic)"


Later post, in reply to: "Do you mean for plastic or in general?  The Ostscout has a recent Classic release."
"Plastic. I have a metal ostscout"


I LOVE the new designs as much as anyone, ESPECIALLY what they're doing with the new Classics.  :excited:   :drool:  While I Prefer 3025 Era, I also REALLY like what they're doing with the Clan 'Mechs!!   :thumbsup:   :clap:  :beer:

However, A. "Demanding" they Redo an additional 218 designs is something they really DON'T need to devote their time and energy to at the moment.
B. "Demanding" said new designs be in plastic rather then Metal?  Again, that would be taking 218 designs AWAY FROM IWM, for a year or longer.

[GRUD]

I think some of those can be safely discounted since they would be more niche designs- unfortunately that includes something like the Blood Kite, which could use a non-WTF look.

Given how popular it is among non-faction clan players, I'd expect the ugly to get a new look, because it needs it.

I've got no dog in this fight, but if you Drastically redesigned this 'Mech wouldn't you Essentially be creating a New design?   ???  Well, unless you explained the reason like they did with the Project Phoenix designs?  Of course, you then run the risk of people complaining about the new look.   ;D

Because "BT Fans".   ::)   xp

[carlisimo]

Despite IWM saying their BT sales increase when plastic sets are released?  Despite the eventual release of all new art minis though we do not know a timetable- btw 5? are slated for release at this time?

I’m sure IWM gets more sales when the starter boxes get more people into the game; that’s how I’ve ended up with several metal mechs.  But I can only see the lance packs reducing IWM’s sales.  We’ll be able to cover 3025-3050 games pretty thoroughly with just plastics; IWM sales will depend pretty heavily on players moving into the “current” timeline.

[Empyrus]

I don't see how plastic takes away from IWM.
I mean, are you gonna buy old metal designs now that there will be superior designs?
I know i don't (a couple of exceptions aside to fill a gaps in my current forces). (Newer designs are another matter naturally.)

I'm doubtful about going all plastic thanks to way the ForcePacks are arranged. Currently thinking that i may get certain designs in metal (once they're out someday) rather than get plastic packs that contain stuff i really don't have any use for.
Plus metal versions offer variant parts or whole variants.

[Sartris]

Nope. Quite Clearly someone wanting them in plastic, RATHER THAN Metal. 


From his initial post, the List of 3925 Unseen:
"Ostscout (yes, you can get it in metal. metal isn't plastic)"


Later post, in reply to: "Do you mean for plastic or in general?  The Ostscout has a recent Classic release."
"Plastic. I have a metal ostscout"


I LOVE the new designs as much as anyone, ESPECIALLY what they're doing with the new Classics.  :excited:   :drool:  While I Prefer 3025 Era, I also REALLY like what they're doing with the Clan 'Mechs!!   :thumbsup:   :clap:  :beer:

However, A. "Demanding" they Redo an additional 218 designs is something they really DON'T need to devote their time and energy to at the moment.
B. "Demanding" said new designs be in plastic rather then Metal?  Again, that would be taking 218 designs AWAY FROM IWM, for a year or longer.

thanks for putting words in my mouth. it's hard work making them myself

fwiw, i have nearly 1500 pewter BT minis

[Colt Ward]

*snip*

You just love beating on that dead horse . . . the OP never said any of what you have alledged through several of your posts, your responding to someone else's stated preference for the mechs to be in plastic.  As I read it, the OP was discussing what mechs were left that could be redesigned for the next Kickstarter/Box Set/Lance Pack plastics.  The Ostscout is mentioned b/c it would clearly be the case of a redesigned mech that came out in metal BEFORE plastic.  He offers a comprehensive list of what mechs are left undone and as I have talked with him before I know he does not have the expectation for them to redo all of those mechs!  Sartis is one of the community advocating a 'core' of designs that appear to simplify the game for new folks instead of overwhelming them with thousands of designs including variants.

By your own admission, NONE of this interests you since its discussed development of the line in plastic- in fact you would be what is considered part of the 'saturated' market- a 3025 hard core who is uninterested in buying most of the new product, be it mech packs or source material.

Nothing has taken ANY of the KS plastic designs away from IWM except the whole FASA debacle.  My FLGS placed my order for the new resculpt of the Cougar that was released in the last year or so . . . I was not told from IWM 'hold on, we are not making them b/c there is a new one in the KS.'  I checked the IWM list a few weeks ago to update my wish list- they are still selling the Thug variants, both Garg sculpts, and Mongoose . . . so even with those designs as part of the KS, IWM is still offering those minis!

Quit freaking out about plastic vs metal, IWM has said their sales improve with the release of plastics.  CGL police are not going to storm your compound to seize your old metal minis and force you to use plastic.

carlisimo, its a matter of value- spend the money on a single Griffin you can repose or buy a new Beginner Box or the Retaliation set.  The singleton is going to be the better expense if all you want is the mech, and they will have parts that allow you to modify it.  Some of the variants IWM will offer are going to look radically different than the plastic- for instance Marauder 3R vs 9M . . . and I think a lot of people will try to make variants of the Phoenix models like the -9S using the -3R as a base.  Heck, I bought IWM parts to put to my earlier lance pack plastics- its easier to mod them than metal.

[ActionButler]

**MOD NOTICE**

People need to calm down and take a step back from this conversation before posts start to get any more personal than they already are.

[carlisimo]

Colt, I totally agree that the Beginner and Game of Armored Combat boxes help IWM, and individual metal mechs based on those designs (like the Griffin you mentioned) should do well. 

It’s just the lance/star packs that I think will hurt them; the plastics are better value if you want at least half of the mechs in a pack (pending retail pricing, granted), and you’ll probably try to find a use for the other half. 

Timing’s also an issue.  Unless IWM have an ace up their sleeve (and I’m hoping they do!), I’m not encouraged by the release of two Shadow Hawk miniatures - one of them in two available poses - in the year since the new boxes came out.  They’ve announced three more on the way and they include the Griffin -1N, but only the -1N.  Imo, it’s going to take them a lot longer to cover the new designs if they can’t make them more modular than that. 

But I’m likely to get a lot of metal omnis once they’re out; some of the Prime configurations bug me.  On the IS side I’ll lean more heavily on the plastic lance packs.

[Colt Ward]

Oh, you are saying IWM's lance packs!  Eh, those are pulls from their inventory.  They do make nice looking boxes for stores, but when I ordered a Clan Med Star it was in little baggies like everything else ordered on the website.

As for the Griffin 1N . . . well, its not going to be too different looking from the -3M, -5M, and some of the later ones all have the gun arm & missile rack look.  Not knowing how the gun is on the arm or the missile rack on the shoulder its hard to tell.  IF its like the prim Wolverine, -1R & -3R, then the gun attaches to the arm . . . I just made a -3R into a -7M for my Regulan Hussars formation.

[Asgo]

a slightly tangential topic, however on the question of 'what mechs people are looking for' it kind of fits.

How much value do you generally put into WYSIWYG mini usage?

Personally in context of BT, I am ok with having one mini for all configurations. Mostly based on the practicality since there are many configs for mechs and even if you use one stand-in there is still a wide variation just based on the number of mechs.  Usually if I want to go WYSIWYG I tend to go strict about it and in the case of BT that would be too limiting for my taste.
That's why for me the ks was a very enticing offer (beyond just per $ value) as the limits of preassembly and (mostly) single variants weren't constricting factors and the first actually a bonus.
That said I wouldn't mind variations, I just would pick them for optics and visual variation and not specific configurations.

In the context of the discussion how the plastics influence IWM, I think that would depend a lot on how people value the flexibility through variations and the freedom of assembly.

The way the arrangement between CG and IWM seems to work, both seem to think that would work out for them in the end.

[Empyrus]

I prefer a miniature that is reasonably close to my preferred configuration/variant, in which case i'm fine using it for other variants as well (since i do that rarely).
A good example where this bothers me is the Ebon Jaguar, i prefer the A config and the Prime doesn't look at all like the A....

I do like variants for variety, and occasionally to represent faction-specific variants. For example, i'd like a Wolverine with dual SRMs to represent certain Kuritan variants, for a Kuritan force.
Would love a Mad Dog C just because...

[Daryk]

Being non-WYSIWYG is a feature of BattleTech, not a bug, but I respect the choices of others to get as close as they can.

[pheonixstorm]

LEGO BattleTech!

Or Fruit Loop BattleTech! When your mech gets cored you have to eat it :crazy:

[Daryk]

Ok, THAT's funny!  :D

[ANS Kamas P81]

Or Fruit Loop BattleTech! When your mech gets cored you have to eat it :crazy:

Mercenary Unit: Cap'n's Crunchers

[Daryk]

Heh... I take it you've seen Artspear Entertainment's (unabridged) Super Showdown Bowl?  ^-^

[ANS Kamas P81]

I have not good sir!

[Daryk]

Then I recommend you start with the Super Hero Bowl, followed by the Super Villain Bowl first... you won't regret the hour and a half (or so) of your life...  :thumbsup:

[TSignus]

I realize they're unlikely given that the powers that be have generally de-emphasized them, but I'd love to see redesigns of the original 3 3025 Land-Air Mechs based on the redesigned Wasp, Stinger, and Phoenix Hawk.

[Asgo]

Or Fruit Loop BattleTech! When your mech gets cored you have to eat it :crazy:

would be a nice way to show battledamage on the map, I like it.
So next step after the ks is to take the current models and make silicon molds from them as a product. So everyone can turn them into their preferred edible and pourable version. ;)

[BoyOfSummer]

Being non-WYSIWYG is a feature of BattleTech, not a bug

+1

[Talen5000]

Colt, I totally agree that the Beginner and Game of Armored Combat boxes help IWM, and individual metal mechs based on those designs (like the Griffin you mentioned) should do well. 

It’s just the lance/star packs that I think will hurt them

I don't think so.

Personally - I prefer metal minis. They have a feel, a heft to them that plastic minis don't replicate. But they are fiddly, need to be assembled and I learnt along time ago that I am not dextrous enough to assemble such minis in a pleasing manner.

There are others who are more fortunate than I, but anyone who prefers metal will, I think, keep buying at least some metal minis.

But IWM will be better served by growing the player base than it will suffer by sales "cannibalised" - which will happen, though I suspect it will be only to a relatively minor degree. IWM will also benefit from the new designs

In short, metals and minis both have a place in the game.

the plastics are better value if you want at least half of the mechs in a pack (pending retail pricing, granted), and you’ll probably try to find a use for the other half. 

Better value in terms of numbers, but that isn't the only criteria people use.

[Colt Ward]

I do like variants for variety, and occasionally to represent faction-specific variants. For example, i'd like a Wolverine with dual SRMs to represent certain Kuritan variants, for a Kuritan force.
Would love a Mad Dog C just because...

Two suggestions-

Have you seen the Wolverine 1R/3R mini?


The missile box on the shoulder is a separate piece and can go on either shoulder . . . It is a online exclusive, so you might have to order it and contact them about getting a 2nd missile box to build a WVR-7K.  I would also want to put a different looking gun on the arm to distinguish AC vs LPL, since it is a separate piece that is easy if you find something you like.  You could also slice off the SRM box off the current plastic Wolverine and put two new matching SRM6 on each shoulder- MWDA chop parts or IWM parts to get the look but again, I would want to change the arm's gun.

For the Mad Dog C, based on the art it looks like all you would need to do is fill in the missile holes rather than filing off like past versions IIRC, cut off the guns on the arm and put some larger on the ends to be 'gauss rifles.'  With the new plastic, it should be pretty easy really.

Talen-  No one is suggesting replacing metal with plastic, I want to say the OP is one of those who has also said in other threads its not feasible!  This is a list of what is still out there for another bundle of art re-vamps that would likely be released as part of a new plastic box set/lance pack deal.  If you want to build more metal, I suggest looking at this topic where I found a way to do it easier- https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=68055.0.  The newer minis, at least since the TRO3145 and Primitives came out, are a lot easier to put together than the Project Phoenix series.  While I loved some of what we got in Phoenix & TRO3067, it was a horrible period for me to put minis together- lots of little bits.  I hated putting the Solitaire together and I do not think I will get another (my trick is making me reconsider) which is why I was disappointed it was removed on the KS- that Mini needed a redo even if its art was pretty solid.  I have a personal rule for that period of mini production to only buy minis that have around 5 or 6 parts.  The new ones?  Way easier, Juliano has 3 parts per leg plus the hip . . . I think it has at least 12 pieces, and it was pretty easy to assemble and get a very active pose.

[Empyrus]

Have you seen the Wolverine 1R/3R mini?

For the Mad Dog C, based on the art it looks like all you would need to do is fill in the missile holes rather than filing off like past versions IIRC, cut off the guns on the arm and put some larger on the ends to be 'gauss rifles.'  With the new plastic, it should be pretty easy really.

Yes, i've seen the primitive Wolverine. Yes, it looks great. No, i'm not considering it for mixing nuplastic units. A primitive force is in my plans for later, and that will include the Wolverine (or two).
Want a variant of the nuSeen wolverine specifically... That said, getting two SRM launcher bits and slicing off the original from one Wolverine is an option to be sure, and one i hadn't thought about, thanks for the suggestion!
Unfortunately ordering that specific SRM is not really an option. Shipping costs from US to Finland are prohibitive, and since it would have to ordered separately, it is not available from Fantasywelt.de (sells IWM minis in Europe). I'll need to check what bits and parts Fantasywelt has available as it is.

If i happen to get an extra Mad Dog in a salvage box, i will consider modifying it. But only if i have extra.
Mostly i wish to see an official version of this though, i'm not really into modding minis.

[Colt Ward]

To each their own, worktroll's explanation of how he did some modifications to the plastic and using MWDA bits is what got me going a bit.  If you are wanting to keep plastic to plastic, I would suggest seeing if you can buy old MWDA minis.  I have used them for bits modifying IWM and Lance Pack plastic.  I have not done anything like that with the new plastic, the only duplicate mini I have being the Wolverine- and I have a unseen -6R, Phoenix -8K, -7H II, a prim -3R/6R, -7M converted from -3R, and now 2 Classic -6Rs.  With 7 I do not really need to chop one up, I will just be painting them for different factions.

[GRUD]

you're responding to someone else's stated preference for the 'Mechs to be in plastic.

Please reread page 1, and the posts made by Sartris.  I was clearly replying to posts made by him.