Anyway To Enhance the Effectiveness of Small LRM Launchers?

[RoundTop]

See, I am one of the people that prefer regular SRMs for the simple reason that I can vary the ammo type- inferno being the key difference IMO.  You can also get more SRM launchers for the weight of SSRM launchers.

Additionally Semi-G ammunition is three times the cost of regular LRM ammo while NARC is just twice the cost.  The cost for not being in the League after the Jihad trying to get that ammo is going to ratchet the cost up even more.  Before the Jihad, to get Semi-G you had to be a unit with good standing in the FWLM or a Blakist . . . after the Jihad its still going to be harder to find and cost way more than NARC ammo.

Finally, as pointed out that NARC launcher is going to make your LRM AND SRM launchers more effective which is why I said after DHS for 3025 designs makes it ideal for force improvement.

I agree with you, but oh man a pair of SSRM6s is just fun. Great as "overheat" weapons. If you hit, great! If not, you are fine.  And 12 SRMs is always good.

[Colt Ward]

Sure, one of my favorite mechs is the Arcas . . . 2 cERLL which are the best gun in the game, and then if something is close you can give them SSRM4s- overheat too much from actually making the roll and you can jump away.

But improving those 3025 designs generally does not mean SSRMs, which we saw to the detriment of several mechs in TRO3050.

[Sartris]

the problem with NARC was that it never proliferated in any serious way. You have, at max, three dozen units to choose from vs SG compatibility with hundreds of units mounting various flavors of TAG

[Colt Ward]

Yes, which is why I said it seemed abandoned by TPTB.  And NARC's story gets worse when you consider how many of those units are faction specific- like the Raven or later Tufana.

[Alsadius]

Fair. The other big advantage you didn't mention is that you also only need to hit once with the Narc, instead of hitting every round. But I like the bonuses on SG rounds more, especially when engaging in IDF hell - you can easily negate +3 or +4 of to-hit penalties, which beats the heck out of +2 on the cluster hit table IMO. Also, the mass difference between SSRM and Narc SRM is fairly small, once you remember to include Narc launcher mass.

I think this is one where our preferences vary. But hearing you talk about it, I can see the argument that Narc is under-used for sure.

[Kit deSummersville]

The best part about the NARC is when the guy panics, tries to brush it off and ends up punching himself in the face.

Extra double bonus if he takes out the cockpit!

[grimlock1]

It's all statistics really, the more rolls you make the more chances you have.  You're doing about the same amount of damage overall between the two, one is just doing the damage as a steady stream of more small hits.  While the other does more damage when it hits but hits or misses once in the same time the other option gives you four chances to do so.

I modeled this in an excel sheet, comparing 250 salvos from an LRM 20 and 1000 salvos with LRM 5s.  Based on that sampling the average damage from a single LRM 20 is +/-1 point, when compared to 4 LRM 5's

The LRMs are smaller and lighter so you could take that free tonnage and use it to bring some different ammo options.

The best part about the NARC is when the guy panics, tries to brush it off and ends up punching himself in the face.

Extra double bonus if he takes out the cockpit!

I though you had to wait until after the battle to remove NARC beacons... iNARC could be brushed off, but not regular.

[Alsadius]

You do lose on heat, though - 4x LRM-5 is 8 heat, 1x LRM-20 is 6 heat. If you want to fix that difference with extra heat sinks, it'll cancel out the mass advantage with SHS(and leave you 1 slot worse), and it'll leave you 1 ton better but two slots worse with DHS.

Also, because they'll tend to hit in blocks of less than 5 damage, the LRM-5s are slightly better at crit-seeking as well, though correspondingly worse at hole-punching.

[Sartris]

I though you had to wait until after the battle to remove NARC beacons... iNARC could be brushed off, but not regular.

TW pg 139 seems to indicate that. I couldn’t find an explicit reference saying you CAN'T brush off regular NARC pods

The improved pods launched by the iNarc are larger than standard Narc pods, and can be brushed off in the same way as swarming anti-’Mech infantry (see p. 220).

edit: not on mobile now so I could add the relevant rules text

[Weirdo]

TW pg 139 seems to indicate that. I couldn’t find an explicit reference saying you CAN'T brush off regular NARC pods

If game rulebooks tried to work that way, they would have to be tomes of such immensity as to make the entire set of current core boss look like an abridged pocket edition.

The way you know you can't do something is if you can't find anything in the book saying you can.

The rules mention brushing off iNARC pods, but do not mention NARC pods in that context. Therefore, you can brush off iNARC pods, but not NARC pods.

[Colt Ward]

What does BMM say since that is supposed to incorporate all the errata?

[Weirdo]

It says NARC is only destroyed if the location it attached to is destroyed. iNARC pods may be brushed off, and it specifically notes their larger size being three reason for this.

[Sartris]

If game rulebooks tried to work that way, they would have to be tomes of such immensity as to make the entire set of current core boss look like an abridged pocket edition.

The way you know you can't do something is if you can't find anything in the book saying you can.

The rules mention brushing off iNARC pods, but do not mention NARC pods in that context. Therefore, you can brush off iNARC pods, but not NARC pods.

I wasn't taking a rules lawyer technicality stance here, just that i couldn't find anything about NARC (thereby implicitly inviting anyone who knew of such a theoretical reference to chime in).

[Colt Ward]

Its a weird change from BMR but eh . . . I guess its an advantage to go with the 'lower' tech NARC over the iNARC.

[Weirdo]

I don't believe it's a change.

[(SMD)MadCow]

Speaking of iNarc, the other options were great, especially Haywire. I wonder where we can get that kind of stuff in universe now that the ComGuard are kaput; RAF maybe?

[Colt Ward]

Regulans put iNARC on one of the Tufana at the request of the Cappies (so its a export version?) in 3083.  I like it over the standard which has a bigger MML rack.

Its honestly the type of vehicle we should have been getting back in the '50s.

[mbear]

The best part about the NARC is when the guy panics, tries to brush it off and ends up punching himself in the face.

Extra double bonus if he takes out the cockpit!

Even better if your friend tries to help you out by brushing off the pod and punches you in the face. Or two of your friends try to do it and you end up with a Three Stooges situation.

[grimlock1]

You do lose on heat, though - 4x LRM-5 is 8 heat, 1x LRM-20 is 6 heat. If you want to fix that difference with extra heat sinks, it'll cancel out the mass advantage with SHS(and leave you 1 slot worse), and it'll leave you 1 ton better but two slots worse with DHS.

Also, because they'll tend to hit in blocks of less than 5 damage, the LRM-5s are slightly better at crit-seeking as well, though correspondingly worse at hole-punching.

True, but on the heat.

With the exception of Thunderbolts, I tend to use missiles for crit seeking over hole punching anyway.

[Kit deSummersville]

Regulans put iNARC on one of the Tufana at the request of the Cappies (so its a export version?) in 3083.  I like it over the standard which has a bigger MML rack.

Its honestly the type of vehicle we should have been getting back in the '50s.

They didn't let me design vehicles back then....

[grimlock1]

They didn't let me design vehicles back then....

I miss NARC and iNARC.  My inner child would smile if one or both started to show up in new material.  :)
My outer child would smile if Nemesis pods were tweaked so they could signal  friendly Arrow IV.  :D

[Weirdo]

Given how much FWLM forces love guided missiles, Capellans love TAG Arrows, and Clanners use ATMs, I wonder how often Regulan Tufanas run Nemesis pods, same once it enters FWL service.

[Sartris]

modern iNarc options also include the Bardiche (FWL, Wolf, and Mercs) and Scapha D (Republic). The Tessen 1Cr and C3 are also available to the Combine and Republic.

The other limited deployment... not so great an outlook. All kaput by ca. 3085

Longshot 3C
C* Battle Cobra C
Hermes II 5C
Phoenix Hawk 7CS
Tessen 1C
Kintaro 21
Scorpion 12C
Champion 3P
Exterminator 5E

[mbear]

modern iNarc options also include the Bardiche (FWL, Wolf, and Mercs) and Scapha D (Republic). The Tessen 1Cr and C3 are also available to the Combine and Republic.

The other limited deployment... not so great an outlook. All kaput by ca. 3085

Longshot 3C
C* Battle Cobra C
Hermes II 5C
Phoenix Hawk 7CS
Tessen 1C
Kintaro 21
Scorpion 12C
Champion 3P
Exterminator 5E

True, but all the militaries of the Inner Sphere have OmniMechs that can mount Narcs and iNarcs. I just had a flash of "Wow" because I imagined the Stalker II's ELRMs using Narc guidance from a Tufana or custom Perseus config. Too bad ELRMs aren't Narc compatible.  :'(

[Sartris]

problematic if you only play with canon designs.

much like NARC, iNarc never caught on. Despite its merits, it's dead end tech. there might be a glut of until now unknown designs in the unreleased RS: Prototypes and 3150 NTNUs but I don't see it.

[Iceweb]

Too bad ELRMs aren't Narc compatible.  :'(

I hate that ELRMs can't have different payloads. 
My dream of C3 linked semi-guided ELRMs being lobbed from two mapsheets away is so far away.

[Alsadius]

I hate that ELRMs can't have different payloads. 
My dream of C3 linked semi-guided ELRMs being lobbed from two mapsheets away is so far away.

"TAG, you're it!

...

Oh, wait, you're not it any more."

[Col Toda]

For an LRM 5 ARRAD ammo . It reduces the number of shots from 25 to 12 but it is -2 to hit and + 1 to cluster against any target with an ECM suite or C3 slave or master. Not available until about 3066 or so but after 3062 you will not be short on targets

[grimlock1]

For an LRM 5 ARRAD ammo . It reduces the number of shots from 25 to 12 but it is -2 to hit and + 1 to cluster against any target with an ECM suite or C3 slave or master. Not available until about 3066 or so but after 3062 you will not be short on targets

If you replace big racks with arrays of 5's, then you can use the extra space to squeeze in more bins, offsetting that fact that ARRAD bins only half the capacity....  That reduced capacity really makes ARRAD unappealing for use with 20's and even 15's.

[Dayton3]

Has anyone taken out a NARC by having a friendly "scratch your back"?.     That is you get a NARC pod attached to your mech,  have a friendly mech target you with a blast of friendly fire?    Ideally low enough to take out the location and not do severe damage.     A medium laser seems good for that.