The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil Volcano Lair IIC Z

[Weirdo]

The problem is that using the Maultier means I'm not using an odd number of Heavy APC minis, one of my primary goals in all of this.

[NutritiousSlop]

That's the other reason I don't much care for it. The Society has issues with getting enough warriors, so you'd think they'd make use of things like CASE II on the APGRs to help reduce the chance that a single APGR getting knocked out cascades into all of them frying the pilot.

In the Wars of Reaving book, in addition to their own hidden sibkos from the wilds of Clan worlds, the Society uses a lot of capturing and brainwashing.  There's a Cephalus variant with a 'Mech Taser built for that.  My take on it is that they've been "disappearing" Clan warriors off battlefields for some time prior to the Reaving and running them through some MK-ULTRA camps, as well as raising their own sibkos.  There's a few references in the book to Society warriors being on drugs in battle as well, and in the Wars of Reaving Supplement, it is explicit that the Society is using 12 year old children as ProtoMech pilots towards the end.

What I'm getting is that the Society functions a lot like ISIS or the Lord's Resistance Army except it's run by evil versions of Elon Musk, John McAfee, Timothy Leary, and Neil Degrasse Tyson.  They're amoral, not immoral, and everything is a cost-benefit analysis of likelihood of accomplishing the mission versus cost, independent of things like the value of human life.  This is even moreso than the Clans.  So they're using an army made up of cadets from their own sibkos, brainwashed and drugged-up Clan warriors, bandit outcasts, Smoke Jaguar survivors, disaffected Burrocks, and child soldiers.  That last one comes because they're probably too easy to recruit and the Society needs bodies on the front line and doesn't truly care if they come back so long as the Society gets what it wants in the end. 

[Crow]

In the Wars of Reaving book, in addition to their own hidden sibkos from the wilds of Clan worlds, the Society uses a lot of capturing and brainwashing.  There's a Cephalus variant with a 'Mech Taser built for that.  My take on it is that they've been "disappearing" Clan warriors off battlefields for some time prior to the Reaving and running them through some MK-ULTRA camps, as well as raising their own sibkos.  There's a few references in the book to Society warriors being on drugs in battle as well, and in the Wars of Reaving Supplement, it is explicit that the Society is using 12 year old children as ProtoMech pilots towards the end.

What I'm getting is that the Society functions a lot like ISIS or the Lord's Resistance Army except it's run by evil versions of Elon Musk, John McAfee, Timothy Leary, and Neil Degrasse Tyson.  They're amoral, not immoral, and everything is a cost-benefit analysis of likelihood of accomplishing the mission versus cost, independent of things like the value of human life.  This is even moreso than the Clans.  So they're using an army made up of cadets from their own sibkos, brainwashed and drugged-up Clan warriors, bandit outcasts, Smoke Jaguar survivors, disaffected Burrocks, and child soldiers.  That last one comes because they're probably too easy to recruit and the Society needs bodies on the front line and doesn't truly care if they come back so long as the Society gets what it wants in the end.

I really like this take.  8)

The problem is that using the Maultier means I'm not using an odd number of Heavy APC minis, one of my primary goals in all of this.

You could always use like 3 Heavy APC minis and an even number of something else Maultier/Svantovit/Maxim C/Badger C/Bandit C/Magi. I agree that Heavy APC is probably the way to go though

[Weirdo]

What would all the other APCs be for? I'm so confused...

[Crow]

What would all the other APCs be for? I'm so confused...

Mines, booby traps, loot. The sky is the limit, really.

Weirdo, I know that you're okay about "custom" infantry platoons, so just use your fertile imagination  >:D

[Weirdo]

I respectfully request that you keep suggestions to the minis force I said I'm trying to build, and leave out extraneous APCs or whatnot. If I were that rich, I'd just buy a pack of APCs and toss the spare in my bits box.

[Crow]

I respectfully request that you keep suggestions to the minis force I said I'm trying to build, and leave out extraneous APCs or whatnot. If I were that rich, I'd just buy a pack of APCs and toss the spare in my bits box.

Oh, I thought that you were rich  :D

Unrelated,  do you know if you can split infantry platoons between APCs? This is more relevant for my question because I want to use an even number of APCs :P

[Weirdo]

You cannot, unless you're using the squad deployment rules from TacOps.

[Crow]

You cannot, unless you're using the squad deployment rules from TacOps.

Well seeing that most of Society forces use advanced rules anyway (not suitable for pickup or tournament play anyway)
I don't see this as an insurmountable problem

[Weirdo]

If it works for you, then rock on with Science.

Me, I prefer to stick to platoons, for playability reasons. Moving 3-5 platoons around the table is one thing. 9-25 squads is another thing entirely, even if they are individually tiny. Also, bad memories. Last time I saw squad deployment being used, the guy was going full cheese, with the deliberate intent that his opponent have as little fun as possible. What he did is no longer actually possible, but it still tainted squads for me.

[Crow]

Oh, I just wanted to fit three Clan Jump platoons into two Maxim C so I wouldn't have to buy 3. I mostly save my shenanigans for Protomechs  :))

[Weirdo]

That *should* work, though you may find deployments bulky. Recommend you take a very close look at the squad rules, especially for their weights, and rules for consolidating into platoons.

[Weirdo]

Okay, I think I've got my Support Sept nailed down:

Command Un:
Sprite
Minotaur
Minotaur

1st Trey:
1st Un:
Boggart
Boggart
Roc

2nd Un:
Centaur
Centaur
Centaur

3rd Un:
Basilisk-Q
Basilisk-Q
Basilisk-Q

2nd Trey:
1st Un:
Ad-hoc Point + Heavy Tracked APC(LRM)
Arrow IV Platoon
Arrow IV Platoon

2nd Un:
Heavy Jump Point + Svantovit IFV
Heavy Jump Point + Svantovit IFV
TAG Platoon + Heavy Hover APC(SRM)

3rd Un:
Heimdall Monitor Tank
Athena Combat Vehicle
Athena Combat Vehicle
Epona Pursuit Tank
Epona Pursuit Tank
Asshur Artillery Spotter
Asshur Artillery Spotter

How's it look?

[Xeno426]

Well, my concern is that if your 1st Trey, 1st Un is running Boggart 2s, they're going to be slowed down by that Roc.

Is there a reason you're mixing your protomech Uns? Usually a mixed protomech force is used to provide one design that can punch holes (Roc, Delphyne) and then another that can exploit the holes (Chrysaor, Orc). The Minotaurs can keep up with the Sprite (especially the 3, 4 and Z), but they don't mesh well together regarding range. Sure, you could use the Minotaur 3 for LRM boating with the regular Sprite, but the regular Sprite is only slightly less than 40 BV more expensive; that's a hell of a bargain when you've almost doubled both firepower and armor.

The Arrow IV platoon... is that field artillery? I'm guessing the 1st and 2nd Un of 2nd Trey work closely together, though you might want some more TAG troops linked up to them. The Asshurs can certainly help, but a TAG platoon can worm itself into places a hovertank can't get.

One final concern is the Heimdall. That's a WiE vehicle, and there wasn't much interaction between them and the other Clans, particularly the Homeworld ones. It just feels kind of out of place in a Society force. Have you considered some top-end SLDF assault take instead? Something like the Alacorn comes to mind, especially the III, which you can load up with some fun alternate AC ammo. Shame the Mars (HAG) is 3075...

Otherwise that's a pretty good support unit.

[Weirdo]

The mixed Uns are mostly to give more variety in my minis collection. Also, running pure Uns all the time makes me feel...cheap, somehow, like I'm talking the easy way out in my force building. Irrational, but there it is.

I was planning to stick with standard Boggarts most of the time, with the Roc meant as an escort. The Centaurs are a pure group because I really like the Centaur mini and the only other Proto-using faction I play does not get access to any Centaurs, and the Basilisks are by themselves because I'm kitbashing them as B-Q-Bs, and I don't really see those working that well with other types.

The Arrows are indeed field arty, which means only five shots per launcher. As such, I figure three TAGs is enough, four if I include the Cephalus in the mech Sept. I'm usually a bigger fan of unguided rounds and splash damage, anyway.

The Heimdall is a bit weird, but I included it for two reasons. 1, it's on the WoR RAT, and 2, I happened to own the mini and wasn't using it for anything else. All else fails, I could say my cell is part of Etienne Balzac's group down in the Falcon OZ. Much more believable that he'd be able to get ahold of a WiE machine somehow.

[NutritiousSlop]

Off topic here, but are there miniatures for the Basilisk-Qs yet?  My Society force is disproportionately 'Mechs right now (mostly Septicemias, 3 Osteons, and eventually 3 Cephaluses, plus two Burrocks and a Cauldron-Born), and I feel like I need to round it out with some Protos. 

I'm building a Hell's Horses unit at the same time, so my vehicle purchases are prioritized to them.  I was also planning on using more Star League era vehicles to represent cache pulls.  Would a Behemoth and Ontos be out of place in a vehicle Un? 

[Weirdo]

There is no Basilisk-Q mini yet. I'm in the process of kitbashing mine out of MWDA Fenrirs, they're the perfect size. Making the head is the hardest part. The tail is fairly easy, as by chance a buddy of mine had a bits pack from Reaper containing several chain weapons. Use a paper clip as the tail's core, and glue the chain on top...perfect.

Both of those tanks appear to be post-League designs, sadly. They'd have to be isorla brought back from the Inner Sphere Jaguar-style. Either that, or fluff your unit as being one of the cells that operated in the OZs, that would make getting ahold of such tanks much easier.

[Xeno426]

Off topic here, but are there miniatures for the Basilisk-Qs yet?  My Society force is disproportionately 'Mechs right now (mostly Septicemias, 3 Osteons, and eventually 3 Cephaluses, plus two Burrocks and a Cauldron-Born), and I feel like I need to round it out with some Protos. 

Unfortunately, no, the Basilisk Q has no miniature at this time. The closest proxy would be the Procyon (quad), but that lacks a tail.

I'm building a Hell's Horses unit at the same time, so my vehicle purchases are prioritized to them.  I was also planning on using more Star League era vehicles to represent cache pulls.  Would a Behemoth and Ontos be out of place in a vehicle Un?

From a cache pull? Yes, the Behemoth is a 2900s design (the Exodus was in 2780) and the Ontos is a mid 2800s design.
If you're looking for assaults, tanks that might be found in Briar caches include the Alacorn, Von Luckner, Puma, Rhino, and Fury. And keep in mind that a lot of the cache pulls will either be the SLDF standard or the Royal versions.
Artillery units worth thinking about are the Padilla and the Vali, with the latter being quite cheap for its combination of speed (4/6) and deep ammo bins for its Arrow IV.

[truetanker]

There's always the Kokou from TP: Tokasha... it's silhouette is a Burke.

TT

[Weirdo]

That's a good idea. Even if they're largely extinct by the time of the Reavings, we're always told that Extinct still leaves room for one or two isolated examples. For all we know, yours could be the very last one in existence. :)

[Crow]

To be honest, I think using direct fire vehicles in Society forces should be discouraged as much as possible. Using a bunch of Alacorns and Royal Von Luckners is too obvious and you want to avoid a stand up confrontation like this. Use guile, not raw firepower to win.

1) Most "stand and deliver with lots of guns/wall of steel" type vehicles existing in Brian Caches are probably pretty picked over by the Jihad, as they are the most obvious choice for use in second line and solahma forces.
2) Most Clans are very biased against indirect fire, artillery and mines and will generally will not use or be prepared for such tactics. Use this to your advantage. Vehicles that use these weapons are likely to be over-represented in Brian Caches.
3) Judging from the campaign track in WoR:Supp, replacing Society forces is very costly (10 times that of the opposing Clan force). So even though Society places little value on human life, you want to win with a minimum of losses. What's the easiest ways of keeping vehicles from dying? Keeping them as far away from the front lines as possible or out of LOS (e.g. vehicles deploying artillery and indirect fire), or fast (hovercraft).
4) Society vehicle forces composed of conscripts with basic training are going to be mediocre at best. What are ways of getting the most of crews that can't hit the broad side of a barn? Artillery uses lower to-hit modifiers, so does LBX and pulse. Maybe you can even pull of NARC + indirect LRM fire.

[Nightsong]

Ahh yes, Narc+indirect LRMs, my favorite flavor of cheese.

[NutritiousSlop]

To be honest, I think using direct fire vehicles in Society forces should be discouraged as much as possible. Using a bunch of Alacorns and Royal Von Luckners is too obvious and you want to avoid a stand up confrontation like this. Use guile, not raw firepower to win.

I think you're right, and this is really shifting my thinking on what I'm going to do with my vehicle Uns.  Society 'Mechs are generally straight brawlers- the Septicemia Prime slaps, and the D is just a tarted-up Ryoken.  The Osteon Prime is a missile boat for all seasons, and the Cephalus just goes and does Cephalus things while everyone else fights.  Then there's the Burrock, of which I've got two that I'm using as Sept leader Uns.  The Society doesn't have indirect long-range fire support, and that's where a vehicle Un split between indirect fire (Padilla, Marksman, etc) and spotter vehicles (Ripper, Kestrel, Gabriel) makes a lot of sense. 

[Crow]

I think you're right, and this is really shifting my thinking on what I'm going to do with my vehicle Uns.  Society 'Mechs are generally straight brawlers- the Septicemia Prime slaps, and the D is just a tarted-up Ryoken.  The Osteon Prime is a missile boat for all seasons, and the Cephalus just goes and does Cephalus things while everyone else fights.  Then there's the Burrock, of which I've got two that I'm using as Sept leader Uns.  The Society doesn't have indirect long-range fire support, and that's where a vehicle Un split between indirect fire (Padilla, Marksman, etc) and spotter vehicles (Ripper, Kestrel, Gabriel) makes a lot of sense.

Society doesn't use the Burrock in its forces. Personally, I would be hesitant to include them. Instead, I would spin off your Burrocks into Dark Caste/Burrock auxiliary forces for twice the fun. Like so:

2x Piranha
1x Hunchback IIC
2x Burrock
- add some random vees and infantry with a desperate, suicidal feel to taste. Boom, instant dark caste force!

In terms of missile boats, the Society has access to everything the SLDF and general Clan has. LRM Carriers, Bulldogs, Rhinos, Hachiman, heck, even Pumas  :D

There are a lot more options in terms of artillery, like Vali, Chapparal, Padilla, Thor, Marksman, Ballista Huey, heck, even the Long Tom  8)

In the end, you want your forces to either win with total victory (in which case slower is fine) or be fast enough to get away for round 2.

http://masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=86&EraId=14

[Crow]

Can anyone give me a convincing reason why I should use the LRM flatbed truck over the vanilla Gorgon?

[Maingunnery]

Can anyone give me a convincing reason why I should use the LRM flatbed truck over the vanilla Gorgon?

Well that is difficult..... the Flatbed truck is slightly faster?

[Retry]

Can anyone give me a convincing reason why I should use the LRM flatbed truck over the vanilla Gorgon?

For one, flatbeds don't drive their operators insane after a few years...

[Weirdo]

For one, flatbeds don't drive their operators insane after a few years...

Says someone who clearly has never seen Dallas traffic.

[Natasha Kerensky]

Can anyone give me a convincing reason why I should use the LRM flatbed truck over the vanilla Gorgon?

You’ll save over 100 in BV2 with the truck.  If the plan is all indirect fire all the time, then the truck is the better bang for the buck.  It’s vulnerabilities and terrain limitations vice the Gorgon won’t matter.

The truck also goes 5/8, vice 4/6 for the Gorgon.  So if you know the LRM unit will stay in the backfield and you’ll be in clear enough terrain to use that 5/8 speed to keep the range open against an advancing enemy (or keep up with a retreating one), the truck also makes some sense.

But if indirect fire is not the plan or the terrain limits the truck’s ability to retreat/advance or the truck will likely be engaged at closer ranges, then you need the greater mobility and survivability of the Gorgon.  You’ll get an ER micro laser to boot.

[Crow]

Says someone who clearly has never seen Dallas traffic.

New Dallas?  :D

You’ll save over 100 in BV2 with the truck.  If the plan is all indirect fire all the time, then the truck is the better bang for the buck.  It’s vulnerabilities and terrain limitations vice the Gorgon won’t matter.

The truck also goes 5/8, vice 4/6 for the Gorgon.  So if you know the LRM unit will stay in the backfield and you’ll be in clear enough terrain to use that 5/8 speed to keep the range open against an advancing enemy (or keep up with a retreating one), the truck also makes some sense.

But if indirect fire is not the plan or the terrain limits the truck’s ability to retreat/advance or the truck will likely be engaged at closer ranges, then you need the greater mobility and survivability of the Gorgon.  You’ll get an ER micro laser to boot.

I've also considered this. I was intending on using indirect fire with Narc. Another thing to consider is that if playing by campaign rules (warchest/support points, whatever), getting a Protomech pilot is crazy expensive, whereas a new vehicle crew is pretty cheap. Still, I might save using the flatbed trucks for Dark Caste forces (who don't use Protomechs anyway), to give them a more hit and run, down and out feel. Also I was reading somewhere on this forum that some people interpret the ammo rules for Protomechs to mean that *any* alternate ammo gets half the amount of shots