Author Topic: What new technology for 3150  (Read 78370 times)

StCptMara

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #60 on: 01 August 2011, 18:28:14 »
Reality and Battletech go hand in hand like a drug induced hallucination and engineering a fusion reactor ;-)

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Reality and Battletech go hand in hand like a drug induced hallucination and engineering a fusion reactor ;-)

verybad

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #61 on: 01 August 2011, 18:29:25 »
Negative matter might be bette named "negative mass"

Nanites won't be in 3150. It's pointless to even think they might. I doubt that level of tech will ever make it into btech, along with antigravity.

If you ever played Renegade Legion, then you know how nasty Gravtaks would slaughter mechs.

(think shielded, 800 ton tanks that can move over 1000 KPH., and in some cases survive nukes)
I would expect new electronic devices (eg TSEMP, which act like buffers/debuffers for the game) some new weapons and possibly new armor. They aren't going to go all super tech on it all of a sudden, because it would render everything else obsolete.

Probably more prototech toys, potentially the status of warships in that era (eg refitted Potempkins the Sea Foxes are using, etc)

Battletech doesn't advance quickly, and very things render older units completely obsolete overnightt. (biggest inew tech probably double heat sinks still).

With the 3150 era, we'll certainly get some new tech, but it's not turning into Star Wars. It's likley there will be a lot of primitive tech units in that book as well.
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Carbon Elasmobranch

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #62 on: 01 August 2011, 18:36:41 »
What doesn't make sense?

AC rounds have varying weight and propellant charges.  The propellant is replaced by electro-magnetism to propel the round.  You can vary the power you put into the gun to vary the range.  Gauss/Rail guns float the round via magnetism so you can, in psuedo-science theory, use any size round (up to the max size limit of the gun.) 

You absolutely don't want to have propellant firing inside the inner workings of a railgun.  It would likely end quite badly.  Like, worse than a 2 on an HVAC badly, as the friction from the accelerating round ignites all the other rounds waiting their turn.

Quote
Additionally, instead of firing inert slugs, the GAC/Rail AC would still fire normal HE/Penetrator type AC rounds.  Meaning, instead of relying completely on kinetic energy for damage, the rounds would be fired at slower AC style velocities and would rely on the round warhead type to do damage.

A different ammo type for Silver Bullet Gauss, then.  The massive disparity between AC round size and firing rate is also something I wouldn't overlook the importance of in attempting to make a "one size fits all" ballistic energy weapon.

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This would let you fire anything from a long ranged AC2 round to a short ranged AC20 round to a mortar round from a single weapons system.

It seems to be about as useful in concept as the Clan ATM.  It's mating together several weapon types, combining their weaknesses (well, the weakness of an HVAC and the gauss rifles) but not their strengths.

Quote
No, I mean capacitors.  Existing BT energy and gauss weapons have integral capacitors.  You apparently cannot draw power fast enough from the engine to fire a laser or PPC.  So you have to store up energy in a capacitor in order to release enough energy in a very short amount of time.

The description of power amplifiers mentions that they consist of banks of capacitors, as per page 235 of the TechManual.  Presumably, the nuclear reactor engines of BT manage to supply enough power to make a shot all in one go, since a PPC puts out enough energy to equal a 1 kt yield nuke detonated in vacuum, albeit over a much smaller volume.  Optional overcharging rules for PPCs allow a Heavy PPC to equal just slightly over three times that much energy.

Quote
By making capacitors separate from the energy/gauss weapons, you make the weapons a bit lighter and give energy weapons an ammo-ish quality (i.e. do I have enough capacitor energy to fire all the energy weapons that I want/need to.)  It would also provide the ability to under or over charge energy weapons.

Under and overcharging are already incorporated in optional advanced rules, albeit not for everything (lasers can power down, PPCs can overcharge).  There's also the PPC Capacitor, but it's more of a safe-ish overcharger, and has its own performance issues that don't match up with ammunition-using weapons; the only similarity it has is in reacting like some of the more unstable autocannon types when a 2 is rolled.

Blackjack Jones

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #63 on: 01 August 2011, 19:12:15 »
I'd suspect that not only would we have a fair bit of 3025/3050 unit designs extinct by then, but it would probably be past time to obsolete a number of weapon designs
and replace them with newer tech.  Mostly for simplification of play and unit construction, possibly to introduce new battlefield roles/specializations/gameplay not present
in the current rules. Completely wild guessing here, will be interesting to see what pans out.

-Standard Autocannons fully replaced by LAC's and the other AC types. Possible removal of LB-X type outright if an advanced cluster munition was done in a similar manner to AP and precision
(Half ammo count, maybe an additional critical roll in ammo explosions, etc.). Ultras might go the way of dodo if newer RAC models were handled correctly.

-Star League type Pulse lasers replaced by X-Pulse or better.

-Standard Lasers might just be considered obsolete and pulled in favor of the ER models, just as the Clans did.
Standard PPC's probably just gone by then, possible ER/Snub variants of Light and Heavy PPC's doing the same to those types. Possible Clan versions of the various PPC technologies.

-Streak missiles possibly becoming just a half-ammo count special munition, getting rid of the specialized launchers.

-Greater tendency towards ATM/MML type tech, heavier reliance on special munitions. Possible retirement of SW-era launchers, with MRM's likely out of the picture totally. 

-Possible second generation iOS launchers that are only a quarter/half ton per shot, but have some sort of penalty, such as they get a minimum range that is
the same as their short range.

-Some consolidation on missile guidance tech. Either some new tech that takes a bit here and there from Artemis/NARC/Semi-guided/etc. as a comprehensive system, or refinements
that obsolete parts of the field (for example, a lighter iNARC launcher that obsoletes the Star League tech NARC's).

-Consolidation/reorganization/refinement of C3, ECM, Active Probes, TAG, and Communications Equipment. At least changes with an eye towards speeding game play with them,
and to make constructing a force with improved electronics less of a pain in the neck.

In gameplay terms, I'd suspect the BV gaps between factions to shrink quite a bit.  An IS/Clan fight probably would be more like 6-8 vs. 5 instead of what we have now.
« Last Edit: 01 August 2011, 19:14:58 by Blackjack Jones »

Decoy

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #64 on: 01 August 2011, 19:28:38 »
From what I've seen of "IS vs. Clans" fights in the dark ages, both sides have the same amount of Clantech in them. ><

willydstyle

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #65 on: 01 August 2011, 19:39:50 »
From what I've seen of "IS vs. Clans" fights in the dark ages, both sides have the same amount of Clantech in them. ><

Good.  The slow rate at which the IS is backwards-engineering clan tech is positively unbelievable.

Blackjack Jones

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #66 on: 01 August 2011, 19:45:29 »
From what I've seen of "IS vs. Clans" fights in the dark ages, both sides have the same amount of Clantech in them. ><

True, but I have to take clicky-tech with a grain of salt. Given that most of the in-game factions are from the RoS, and even
back in 3085 the republic has a lot of Clantech. I'm sure the best house formations and top-tier Merc units have a fair bit as well, but I'm
doubtful that's the composition of your average bread-and-butter house unit, or militia unit, or hard-luck Merc unit.

verybad

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #67 on: 01 August 2011, 20:14:42 »
Good.  The slow rate at which the IS is backwards-engineering clan tech is positively unbelievable.

Not really, the problem they had wasn't reverse engineering them, but the lack of advanced enough (read orbital) factories to make the parts required in the first place. The NAIS had a lot of stuff reverse engineered within a couple years, they just couldn't make the stuff on a large scale because it had to be handcrafted. If you can make 20 IS tech mechs for the cost of 1 clan tech mech, the choice is generally obvious except for a very few exceptions (special forces, etc)

The IS spent the last few hundred years blowing up the factories necessary, while the clan style of warfare prevented that (post Klondike)
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stoicfaux

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #68 on: 01 August 2011, 20:55:55 »
You absolutely don't want to have propellant firing inside the inner workings of a railgun.  It would likely end quite badly.  Like, worse than a 2 on an HVAC badly, as the friction from the accelerating round ignites all the other rounds waiting their turn.

You misread it completely. 

An AC round is comprised of the bullet/warhead on top of a case filled with propellant.  A Gauss AC/Rail AC round would just be the bullet/warhead.  The propellant, shell, primer, etc., all go away in a Gauss/Rail AC.  (This would also provide more rounds per ton of ammo.)

Instead of propelling a single solid slug of metal at hypersonic speeds like a GR does, a Gauss/Rail AC would propel a burst of AC warheads at the slower speeds of a normal AC.  In other words, instead of propelling a single fast slug that relies on kinetic energy, the Gauss/Rail-AC would propel a slower moving burst of AC warheads that do damage the same way that normal ACs do.

Being able to vary the power of the shot and being able to use different sized AC rounds, the Gauss/Rail AC could fire anything from an AC20 burst to an AC2 burst to a mortar round.  Imagine if a HGR could be dialed down to shoot a normal GR or Light GR slug with matching ranges?  Same idea, but applied to AC rounds/warheads.


Quote
The description of power amplifiers mentions that they consist of banks of capacitors, as per page 235 of the TechManual.  Presumably, the nuclear reactor engines of BT manage to supply enough power to make a shot all in one go, since a PPC puts out enough energy to equal a 1 kt yield nuke detonated in vacuum, albeit over a much smaller volume.  Optional overcharging rules for PPCs allow a Heavy PPC to equal just slightly over three times that much energy.

TacOps, page 321 mentions that Improved Heavy Lasers have capacitors.  And I'm mostly sure that other articles/fiction/whatever have mentioned that PPC and lasers make use of built in capacitors.


Nebfer

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #69 on: 01 August 2011, 21:51:05 »
I took the liberty of cross-checking Warrenborn's tech list with Sarna's and came up with the following military tech that we don't have by 3085. If there's any popular demand, I'll go back and make any necessary edits and maybe try to extrapolate what some of these things actually do.

Ammunition:
Armor-Piercing Explosive Rounds
Concussion Ammo 
Extended-Range Ammo
Fire Shot
Haywire Missiles
Heat-Seeking Ammo
Homing Beacons
Queen Bee Ammo
Viscid Incindiary Fluid

Armor:
Ablative Armor
Heat-Dissipating Armor
Heavy Armor
Impact Armor
Reinforced Armor

Combat Units:
Colossus-Class 'Mechs
Quad-Vees

Defense Systems:
Advanced Anti-Missile Systems
Advanced Point Defense
Close In Weapons Systems
Viral Decoy Jammers
Viral Homing-Beacon Jammers

Heating & Cooling:
Emergency Coolant Systems
Heat Sink Override Kits
Radical Heat Sinks

Lasers:
Hyper Lasers
Refocused Lasers

Miscellaneous:
Hot-Drop Shielding
Overchargers
Seismic Dampeners

Myomer:
Improved Myomer
Supercooled Myomer

Offensive Systems:
Advanced Pulse Modules
Continuous-Fire Mode
Saturation-Fire Mode

Other Weapons:
Bunker Busters
Deforesters
Inferno Flamers
Plasma Guns
TSEMP
Repeating TSEMP

Repairs:
Harjel II Auto-Repair Systems
Harjel III Auto-Repair Systems

Is this a list of what tech they mention in the DA timeline? Like on the unit/equipment/pilot cards?

Peacemaker

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #70 on: 01 August 2011, 22:36:46 »
Is this a list of what tech they mention in the DA timeline? Like on the unit/equipment/pilot cards?

That's exactly what it is.

blackjack

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #71 on: 01 August 2011, 23:09:26 »
lets all waddle our way thru the DA stuff . Do we really need anymore tech at the moment? I havent even used some of the stuff that came out the last couple years. Lets slow down & play the heck out of what we have been given over the last few years & let the CBT kids step back & take a breath.
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verybad

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #72 on: 02 August 2011, 00:31:08 »
lets all waddle our way thru the DA stuff . Do we really need anymore tech at the moment? I havent even used some of the stuff that came out the last couple years. Lets slow down & play the heck out of what we have been given over the last few years & let the CBT kids step back & take a breath.

Let's ignore what you said and get mroe tech.

Nobody is making you upgrade the tech you play with. It's just available for those that wish to use it.

We need more tech.
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Prince of Darkness

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #73 on: 02 August 2011, 00:56:26 »
God I hate doing this, but I can't resist...

I'd suspect that not only would we have a fair bit of 3025/3050 unit designs extinct by then, but it would probably be past time to obsolete a number of weapon designs
and replace them with newer tech.  Mostly for simplification of play and unit construction, possibly to introduce new battlefield roles/specializations/gameplay not present
in the current rules. Completely wild guessing here, will be interesting to see what pans out.

-Standard Autocannons fully replaced by LAC's and the other AC types. Possible removal of LB-X type outright if an advanced cluster munition was done in a similar manner to AP and precision
(Half ammo count, maybe an additional critical roll in ammo explosions, etc.). Ultras might go the way of dodo if newer RAC models were handled correctly.

The fluff of how many of the autocannons work would keep this from happening.  While I can see LAC's really keeping the old standard AC's out of frontline forces, it wouldn't be effective to make an LAC of every std. Autocannon- the ranges would become too short.  Also, many of the construction aspects of the guns would keep some of these things from happening, like RAC's making UAC's obsolete- can you imagine how much recoil would come about from a RAC-20 on full auto?  Or how inaccurate a double shot of UAC armor-piercing rounds would be?

Quote
-Star League type Pulse lasers replaced by X-Pulse or better.

I can see the LPL waning away, but not the normal SPL and MPL- some units might not be able to upkeep X-Pulse, and the lower heat is always a factor.

Quote
-Standard Lasers might just be considered obsolete and pulled in favor of the ER models, just as the Clans did.
Standard PPC's probably just gone by then, possible ER/Snub variants of Light and Heavy PPC's doing the same to those types. Possible Clan versions of the various PPC technologies.

These I also really doubt.  The Clans got rid of the standard lasers and PPC's because they had upgraded the damage so much from them- and yet many of their dropships and warships still mount old Star League-era laser weaponry.  Also, with all the newer PPC types available to the IS, people forget how powerful two PPC's an be, especially when you only need one extra DHS to make a 'mech that can run and fire off two 10 point hits each turn.

Quote
-Streak missiles possibly becoming just a half-ammo count special munition, getting rid of the specialized launchers.

Much of the fluff around the launchers suggests that a big part of it also has to do with the launchers themselves, so that's doubtful.  I would however like to see the clans adapting those "Advanced SRM's" for battlemech use.

Quote
-Greater tendency towards ATM/MML type tech, heavier reliance on special munitions. Possible retirement of SW-era launchers, with MRM's likely out of the picture totally. 

I can see MRMs leaving, but SRMs/LRMs?  Hell no.  MML's can't nearly compete with the throw-weight of a dedicated LRM, and will always be bigger than the SRM's they can replace.  Also, ATM's lack any advanced munitions, and until they get any I'd rather stick with those old standbys.

Quote
-Possible second generation iOS launchers that are only a quarter/half ton per shot, but have some sort of penalty, such as they get a minimum range that is
the same as their short range.

I could see this.  More akin to the Marian RL's- just a tube and firing circuit, with a heavy firing penalty and a much lighter weapon.

Quote
-Some consolidation on missile guidance tech. Either some new tech that takes a bit here and there from Artemis/NARC/Semi-guided/etc. as a comprehensive system, or refinements that obsolete parts of the field (for example, a lighter iNARC launcher that obsoletes the Star League tech NARC's).

Eh, I'm not too keen on lumping all the systems together, but something that could make NARC and Artemis work in cohesion would be awesome.

Quote
-Consolidation/reorganization/refinement of C3, ECM, Active Probes, TAG, and Communications Equipment. At least changes with an eye towards speeding game play with them, and to make constructing a force with improved electronics less of a pain in the neck.

That would be a big game-changer (especially with all the C3 and ECM nowadays) but I think it's asking a lot.  Speeding it up means simplifying, and at this stage it'd be difficult.

Quote
In gameplay terms, I'd suspect the BV gaps between factions to shrink quite a bit.  An IS/Clan fight probably would be more like 6-8 vs. 5 instead of what we have now.

I would hope so.  Some of the clan players I went up against in BV got absolutely shafted.
« Last Edit: 02 August 2011, 00:57:58 by Prince of Darkness »
Cowdragon:
I'm going to type up your response, print it, fold it in half, and look at it like a I would a centerfold. THAT's how sexy your answer was.

Carbon Elasmobranch

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #74 on: 02 August 2011, 01:30:47 »
You misread it completely. 

An AC round is comprised of the bullet/warhead on top of a case filled with propellant.  A Gauss AC/Rail AC round would just be the bullet/warhead.  The propellant, shell, primer, etc., all go away in a Gauss/Rail AC.  (This would also provide more rounds per ton of ammo.)

Instead of propelling a single solid slug of metal at hypersonic speeds like a GR does, a Gauss/Rail AC would propel a burst of AC warheads at the slower speeds of a normal AC.  In other words, instead of propelling a single fast slug that relies on kinetic energy, the Gauss/Rail-AC would propel a slower moving burst of AC warheads that do damage the same way that normal ACs do.

Being able to vary the power of the shot and being able to use different sized AC rounds, the Gauss/Rail AC could fire anything from an AC20 burst to an AC2 burst to a mortar round.  Imagine if a HGR could be dialed down to shoot a normal GR or Light GR slug with matching ranges?  Same idea, but applied to AC rounds/warheads.

Seeing as how there are heinous mounting restrictions on a HGR, I'd say that it would be a waste of a ton of ammo to fire a LGR round out of it.

Quote
TacOps, page 321 mentions that Improved Heavy Lasers have capacitors.  And I'm mostly sure that other articles/fiction/whatever have mentioned that PPC and lasers make use of built in capacitors.

Yes, and the transmission of reactor to capacitor to weapon is to protect it from overloading when hooked up to the unit's nuclear reactor, because the nuclear reactor is not the weak link there, straining to recharge the weapon over time.  It's a high-pressure baffle holding back a flood.  Given a week's buildup, it can rachet and fold the universe around itself with the energy it's stored, which means that, in terms of how weapons act on the battlefield according the to rules, you won't be waiting for a capacitor to recharge for what could be considered a limited amount of time in an engagement.  That problem is for battle armor and troops with battery-powered support weapons and small arms.

StCptMara

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #75 on: 02 August 2011, 02:38:14 »

Much of the fluff around the launchers suggests that a big part of it also has to do with the launchers themselves, so that's doubtful.  I would however like to see the clans adapting those "Advanced SRM's" for battlemech use.


Personally, I would love to see the "Dual Purpose" missiles like are on the Undine adapted for
Battlemech use...
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Khymerion

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #76 on: 02 August 2011, 05:18:13 »
- 5th Generation ballistics...  in essence, refinements to gauss technology and the arrival of special munitions for them.  Product improved autocannons of all types to represent an era of refinement a relative era of peace, much akin to the golden century magically giving the clanners all their super tech.  In essence, we don't see all the old autocannons disappear, just better, smaller, more efficient models beginning to arrive of the types already in existence.

(5th generation referring to Succession War/Age of War era as 1st, Star League/Rediscovered as 2nd, Clanner invasion era as 3rd, Civil War/Jihad era as 4th, and 'next' generation as 5th)

- 5th Generation Energy Weapons - Refinement of the variable pulse laser technology towards a unified laser mount.  Bulkier but with a switch to allow it to act as an ER, a Pulse, or a Variable Pulse laser to give more versatility over the current generation of laser.  Laser arrays... akin to the MG array...  perhaps even leading to a wider variety of Binary laser cannons... in the small and medium or even ER variants.

- 5th Generation Missiles - Refinements in missile defenses and the ever increasing use of ECM might see the current generation of streaks or guidance systems slowly diminish.  The marked return of the heavy missiles akin to the thunderbolt launcher.  The larger missile allowing for penetration aids to spoof and confuse the AMS systems and the ability to have the special guidance integrated into the missile itself, making ECM jamming difficult.  A short ranged model to mimic the SRM it is replacing and an improved thunderbolt long ranged model to match the LRM launchers in their reach.  Costly and why many of the older launchers will still be in use but starting to see a possible use.   Even if it is not an adoption of improved thunderbolts, an improvement and diversification of smart munitions independent from their launchers.

- 5th Generation Defenses - Refinement of at least the Inner Sphere produced armors in terms of size.  Put the old dog of saying that the Inner Sphere can not produce clan tech armors due to lack of space factories to sleep.  If the 3060s were indication of how fast they can build, that shouldn't be a factor.  Don't make the Inner Sphere armors match exactly the clanner stuff but make a general block refinement in the critical slot size across the board so it isn't so crippling.

Layered Armors - Nothing is so mean as knowing someone is taking anti-energy armor and throwing ballistics at them... or the same but reversed with lasers verse anti-ballistics.  Sandwiched armors detailed at instillation.  A layer of reactive backed by a layer of reflective and finally a standard or ferro-carbide layer to catch the last bits on a location.'

Improved Armored Components and Motive Systems - Reduce the weight requirements to these technologies.

So in general, 5th Generation vehicles and mechs should be better protected and armed than their brethren 70 years prior.  It was understood that the chaotic period that marked the 50's through 80's meant that nothing was allowed to completely fall out of service just due to need and desperation but there has been seven decades to allow reconstruction and time to allow old material to fall out of production...  at let the 1st generation stuff start to disappear from front line units... now the home of only the national guard or the lowest tier mercenary and minor groups.   The surplus of 2nd and 3rd generation stuff should be enough to let that become the bargain basement/lower front line.  4th should be bread and butter of the front line.  5th generation should be the elite gear starting to see getting into the hands of the general units.
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Onisuzume

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #77 on: 02 August 2011, 06:23:42 »
...I realize new tech is inevitable, but I think its hit a limit for a while and we'll see it become more refined and common.  It's going to take some kind of major "breakthrough" to change the basis of a mech; the 100-ton limit is one, crit spaces might be another.
The biggest problem with going above 100-tons is the increasing diminishing returns - you quickly get to the point where you're better off with a lighter design.

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stoicfaux

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #78 on: 02 August 2011, 09:33:42 »
Seeing as how there are heinous mounting restrictions on a HGR, I'd say that it would be a waste of a ton of ammo to fire a LGR round out of it.

/facepalm

Ok.  I'll use smaller, more precise examples.  How would feel if an AC/20 could fire AC20, AC10, AC5 or AC2 rounds (plus mortar rounds) at their respective ranges?

That's one of the big proposed advantages of a Gauss/Rail-AC weapon.  Instead of the weapon determining range, the ammo determines the range.  It's a truly flexible AC style weapon that complements the Mech's ability to fight anywhere and would eliminate the need to have a truly ridiculous amount of hyper-specialized AC mechs (or omni configs) such as the Hunchback versus the JagerMech.   You would need fewer secondary weapons to cover any range gaps which would free up weight for range-specific or specialized ammo to use in the Gauss/Rail-AC.  Logistics in general would also be easier.



Carbon Elasmobranch

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #79 on: 02 August 2011, 10:22:14 »
/facepalm

It's a valid concern - you can only mount something that fires (i)HGR rounds in places where you can mount an (i)HGR.  Doing otherwise will, as noted in the fluff of the weapon, tear off the location due to recoil.

Quote
Ok.  I'll use smaller, more precise examples.  How would feel if an AC/20 could fire AC20, AC10, AC5 or AC2 rounds (plus mortar rounds) at their respective ranges?

That's one of the big proposed advantages of a Gauss/Rail-AC weapon.  Instead of the weapon determining range, the ammo determines the range.  It's a truly flexible AC style weapon that complements the Mech's ability to fight anywhere and would eliminate the need to have a truly ridiculous amount of hyper-specialized AC mechs (or omni configs) such as the Hunchback versus the JagerMech.   You would need fewer secondary weapons to cover any range gaps which would free up weight for range-specific or specialized ammo to use in the Gauss/Rail-AC.  Logistics in general would also be easier.

Only for units large enough to use it.  For everything else, you'd still be stuck with different weapon types.  Also, the recoil on multiple gauss shots might not be so easily controlled, given the existence of the HAG and the manner in which it deals damage (as a cluster instead of a tight grouping).
« Last Edit: 02 August 2011, 10:25:13 by Carbon Elasmobranch »

Martius

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #80 on: 02 August 2011, 11:00:01 »
Personally, I would love to see the "Dual Purpose" missiles like are on the Undine adapted for
Battlemech use...

I second that. Add some SRM version, too.

Nebfer

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #81 on: 02 August 2011, 14:35:11 »
Well sense this is some of the items we have seen in DA... Though It would be nice to see what was said on these cards... goes looking...

Ammunition:
Quote
Armor-Piercing Explosive Rounds
Technically is not B-tech ammo already HEAP? Though the card indicates that it ignores "armor"
Quote
Concussion Ammo
Higher chance of being knocked over?
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Extended-Range Ammo
Hyper velocity ammo with out the gun? which is what the card says, twice the range...
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Fire Shot
it's a heat producing round, possibly for ballistic weapons
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Haywire Missiles
Heat-Seeking Ammo
Homing Beacons
B-tech has these already in one form or another
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Queen Bee Ammo
The card indicates that it ignores all to hit modifiers except range based ones. (or something like that)
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Viscid Incendiary Fluid
Infernos that cause heat over a longer time? (vs the single turn)
The card indicates that it's for the fluid gun, and it's just the Incendiary fluids.

Armor:
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Ablative Armor
Technically B-tech armor is already ablative, so this has to be a form of applique armor, modular armor? Per the Card it ignores AP ammo
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Heat-Dissipating Armor
Armor that functions like a heat sink? which is what the card says.

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Heavy Armor
do not know what this one dose, but it's not the same as hardened armor
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Impact Armor
the card indicates it takes less damage from close combat attacks
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Reinforced Armor
per the card it reduces the attacks from ballistic weapons by 2

Defense Systems:
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Advanced Anti-Missile Systems
the card indicates adjacent units can be protected
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Advanced Point Defense
it's hard to say what this realy dose, it indicates that other units can use the pilot's modifiers over theirs.
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Close In Weapons Systems
A weapon that can attack targets in it's own hex.
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Viral Decoy Jammers
cancels out decoy systems
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Viral Homing-Beacon Jammers
cancels out homing beacon systems



Heating & Cooling:

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Emergency Coolant Systems
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Heat Sink Override Kits
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Radical Heat Sinks
This one adds an extra point of coolant over regular heat sinks, as for the other two I do not know

Lasers:
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Hyper Lasers
Per the DA card it adds 50% more range and damage over regular lasers, at lest from what I can see
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Refocused Lasers
an odd one, it can hit any unit in a line it seems

Miscellaneous:
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Hot-Drop Shielding
likely just ordinary drop pods
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Overchargers
It's not a supercharger, as thats also a card, perhaps a improved version?
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Seismic Dampeners
the card indicates that indirect fire can not be made on this unit with it dampener active, not dose Streak ammo work...

Myomer:
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Improved Myomer
+1 to melee attack per the Card
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Supercooled Myomer
can not find info, but perhaps reduced heat effects on movement?

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Repairs:
Harjel II Auto-Repair Systems
Harjel III Auto-Repair Systems
Both of these per the cards indicate they repair one point of damage, perhaps in B-tech they could remove one critical hit...


In addition to these theirs
Experimental Pulse, the Ultra Pulse, produces lots of heat
Back up power, if the unit is shut down it can still move
Re-engineered Laser, ignores reflective, heavy and hardened armor effects
Refined Pulse , production model of the "ultra Pulse", slightly less heat...
Melee Hardening, reduces melee damage
Alternative Firing Mode , can fire out to 2x it's regular range


blackjack

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #82 on: 02 August 2011, 19:20:54 »
Let's ignore what you said and get mroe tech.

Nobody is making you upgrade the tech you play with. It's just available for those that wish to use it.

We need more tech.

I stand by what I say. Errors get made when things get rushed. playtesting stuff out properly takes time.  I understand the point of only those who want to play with it will but I try to keep games fair & open to all players. I got burned too many times by wizkids with constant rules & game changes that were not well thought out.
#704

Blackjack Jones

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #83 on: 02 August 2011, 21:50:57 »
God I hate doing this, but I can't resist...

The fluff of how many of the autocannons work would keep this from happening.  While I can see LAC's really keeping the old standard AC's out of frontline forces, it wouldn't be effective to make an LAC of every std. Autocannon- the ranges would become too short.  Also, many of the construction aspects of the guns would keep some of these things from happening, like RAC's making UAC's obsolete- can you imagine how much recoil would come about from a RAC-20 on full auto?  Or how inaccurate a double shot of UAC armor-piercing rounds would be?

A few comments here-
1. Scaling often gets shafted for the sake of weapon balance.  I doubt a LAC-20 would be stuck at a six hex range for example, and I would also expect the bigger LAC's wouldn't
get the same tonnage savings as the smaller guns (and they probably would get bloated by a couple of crits as well).
2. The range thing- yeah RAC's and LAC's are fairly short range, but they are also some of the more effective types out there.  Part of my assumption is that AC's stop playing the range game
with energy weapons, and stick to what they have doing fairly well lately- utility and close-range buzzsaws.
3. I can see why people would assume that larger RAC's would be 6x fire rate, but that wasn't my intention.  If a RAC-20 could just double tap and be able to be unjammed, it still would obsolete the Ultra-20. I tend to be of the camp that the Ultra's/RAC's need to have different maximum fire rates, since it makes the 2 series useful, and the 20's not the end all, be all gun.
4. Not sure where you are getting that UAC firing AP rounds is coming from. If you are referring to the LB-X bit, it is a bit of a crapshoot, but I can't see the developers supporting
all six lines of IS Autocannons (if you include the HVAC) in the future. They have a hard enough time getting folks to use any of the 2 series or the ultra/LB-X 5 most days, and any kind of
addition without killing off at least a couple of the lines off is probably going to make things worse.

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These I also really doubt.  The Clans got rid of the standard lasers and PPC's because they had upgraded the damage so much from them- and yet many of their dropships and warships still mount old Star League-era laser weaponry.  Also, with all the newer PPC types available to the IS, people forget how powerful two PPC's an be, especially when you only need one extra DHS to make a 'mech that can run and fire off two 10 point hits each turn.

Nitpick time- a lot of the old tech on Clan dropships/Warships never got upgraded simply because it was rarely used due to safecon. As for your other point, we're just at different opinions here.

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Much of the fluff around the launchers suggests that a big part of it also has to do with the launchers themselves, so that's doubtful.  I would however like to see the clans adapting those "Advanced SRM's" for battlemech use.

I will admit it is probably the most unlikely prediction here, but tech marches on, and we'll see what we get.

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I can see MRMs leaving, but SRMs/LRMs?  Hell no.  MML's can't nearly compete with the throw-weight of a dedicated LRM, and will always be bigger than the SRM's they can replace.  Also, ATM's lack any advanced munitions, and until they get any I'd rather stick with those old standbys.

Not with the current generation anyways, hence 'ATM/MML type tech'. Even it stuck with more traditional LRM/SRM setups, the IS is overdue for replacement launchers for the SW-era stock.

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Eh, I'm not too keen on lumping all the systems together, but something that could make NARC and Artemis work in cohesion would be awesome.

That would be a big game-changer (especially with all the C3 and ECM nowadays) but I think it's asking a lot.  Speeding it up means simplifying, and at this stage it'd be difficult.

In both cases, I'm not trying to suggesting total homogenization, more of a case of getting them to play together well. Getting the right spotters for your missile boats, proper electronics cover
for your force, etc.  in just force assembly can be a headache these days. Some of that speeding up I was implying was just being able to 'grab and go' and not have several tons sit completely useless due to incompatibilities.

Chris24601

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #84 on: 02 August 2011, 22:53:07 »
Given that a home RPG game involved a H-K drive accident sending the party to the year 3500, our group has actually given something like this some thought.

Our answer? The refinements and homogenation of technology over an extended time will lead to an effective return to the Level 1 rules only using 50 meter hexes, everything has CASE II for free, and the addition of fluff that each point of damage/heat is about twice what it used to be.

NOTE: all of the following is just FLUFF. Our actual battles play out using standard 3025/Level 1 game rules.

Advanced targeting and electronic counter-measures end up cancelling each other out so that the battlefield is an ECM/ECCM saturated zone where targeting has to be at visual range to even hope for a successful lock.

The various laser and particle beam technologies converge into an ER heavy pulse weapon where the improved accuracy is just barely enough to keep up with the improved targeting jammers spoiling your aim. Hosing your target with fire and hoping to hit is the order of the day.

Similarly, those same targeting limits lead to melding the raw power of gauss weaponry with the rapid-fire capabilities of the traditional autocannon. The future autocannons are actually automatic gauss cannons firing hails of shells down field in hopes of damaging their target.

Missiles carry more deadly payloads for their size, but also have to pack insane amounts of ECCM just to have a hope of hitting their targets. Salvo-firing multiple missiles is the only way to guarantee an even partial hit.

All these weapons with their increased outputs of course build up about twice the heat of their 3025 equivalents, such that the improved double heat sinks (now taking up just one critical slot each) of the day can just barely keep up.

In the future the bulk of XL engines has been eliminated and MASC technology improved to the point that it is completely safe and standard to all designs. In this future a 75 ton Mech mounting a standard (for the time) 19 ton fusion engine could attain a top ground speed of 108 kph (a 75 ton Mech in 3050 with a 19 ton XL engine and MASC would also have a maximum speed of 108 kph). Refinements to jump jet systems would allow that same 75 ton Mech to hurl itself up to 200 meters with just 4 tons of jump jet equipment (and taking up just 4 critical slots).

Likewise, refined hardened armor and reinforced internal structure allow these future Mechs to stand up to the immense firepower of those future weapons. Improved Triple-Strength Myomer material that keeps both its strength and reaction time at normal operating temperatures helps make use of the improved power output of the engine for both motive speed and for inflicting damage in melee combat (i.e. "double" damage to keep up with the "doubled" armor).

Level One Rules... they're the wave of the future!  ;)

Prince of Darkness

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #85 on: 03 August 2011, 11:59:43 »
Okay, this I can do and not look like an opinionated ****** at the same time.

Ammunition:
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Armor-Piercing Explosive Rounds

I had some fan-based stuff that had the munitions (the acronym starting with an L) carry a timer from the original impact/explosion, remarking that they used heavier, denser propellant for the rounds and a secondary explosion to attempt to deal critical damage, or to damage inside of already-existing armor.  The card says it can "defeat" other armors and deals damage to anything in base contact (i. e. infantry) so it's probably a very heavy round that, like normal AP rounds, halves the level of ammo to keep the damage the same and to add a larger explosion.  Note that it's RISC gear, meaning it always has a chance to fail when used.

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Concussion Ammo

A optional rounds that appears to still do damage, concussion ammo affects non-mech units, giving them an "Order token"- denoting that it's "shocking" or "stunning" tank crews, armor, and infantry.  Probably just another standard autocannon munition.

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Extended-Range Ammo

Another standard AC munition.  This one increases doubles your overall range (out to a maximum of 16 inches) but takes away 2 from your overall base damage (or base attacking/targeting value, I can't really tell which).

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Fire Shot

Another RISC gear, that if fails the target gains two "clicks" of heat.  When it strikes a target, you have to measure from the center dot 6 inches around, and you give 1 point of heat to any 'mech that is within those 6 inches.

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Haywire Missiles

Optional gear.  When it hit an opponent, it does no damage, only disrupting their electronic gear (i. e. C3, ECM, electronic camo...)  Basically iNARC Haywire pods.

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Heat-Seeking Ammo

Exactly what it says on the tin, this gets a +1 to it's attack rolls (or a -1 to us) for each click on the enemies heat dial.  Probably missile ammo- I think BT has this somewhere...

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Homing Beacons

NARC, basically.  Of note, Clan wolf begins to use this a lot in the Wolf Strike expansion.

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Queen Bee Ammo

RISC gear that (surprisingly) doesn't fall off.  Basically acts like NARC, but it acts for just the ballistic type, leaving it up for interpretation.  Note that the wording of the card Potentially denotes that opponents firing at the attacker gain the same benefits too.

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Viscid Incindiary Fluid

A Fluid gun firing inferno rounds.  Nothing new here.

Armor:
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Ablative Armor

This is the only type of armor that can resist Armor-Piercing ammo in AoD, undoubtedly giving it some enhanced anti-ballistic properties.  I presume that it's something along the lines of a "Refined" Hardened armor, like someone tried to keep the anti armor piercing/critical hit nature of the heavy stuff without the hit to speed, piloting, or weight.

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Heat-Dissipating Armor

Probably an outgrowth of the Fire-Resistant battle armor-scaled plate.  It subtracts heat for being attacked, not heat that it builds, so like it's armored cousins it would probably be immune to fires and flamers, and would really take the bite out of plasma weapons.

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Heavy Armor

"Grey" armor in-game, it always subtracts 1 damage from an attack to a minimum of 0.  Could potentially be from a patchwork of armor including Hardened, or it could be from a new armor type or the actual build of the machine.

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Impact Armor

Reduces damage from physical attacks and "Special" attacks (i. e. charges, punching/stomping) to 2 damage.  Since it also ignores the agility gear, I'd call it an offshoot of Hardened armor.

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Reinforced Armor

Decreases damage from ballistic attacks by 2 and has the chance of defeating armor-piercing ammo.  Like Heavy/Grey armor, I see it as either being a Hardened armor offshoot, or something that caomes about from the actual construction of the 'mech.

Defense Systems:

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Advanced Anti-Missile Systems

Advanced AMS, or "purple" for armor, is an AMS system that engages further out from the unit that not only lowers damage done to itself by ballistics, but also lowers damage to other units in base contact with it.  The Lyran Padilla Anti-Missile Tank (yeah, you heard me) uses it and it's somewhat long range to form formations of anti-missile and point defense.

Quote
Advanced Point Defense

Another bout of RISC gear (meaning it can destroy itself if used) APD allows a unit in base contact with the 'mech carrying the RISC gear to use the 'mechs defense value instead of their own, and also allows it to be modified by their pilot and camouflage- basically beefing up anything close by with a (potentially) much higher defense as a "bunker" tactic.  I have NO idea what a BT analogue would be.

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Close In Weapons Systems

Infantry who move into base contact with a 'mech carrying this gear (if in front of the 'mech) take one click of ballistic damage.  Probably just a fancier way of saying "Machine gun".

Quote
Viral Decoy Jammers

RISC gear that allows all friendly units to ignore a gear called "Decoy", which forces you to roll a second time against their defense (meaning that you could miss on a second attempt and miss completely).  Like most RISC gear, can destroy itself.

Quote
Viral Homing-Beacon Jammers

Weird RISC gear.  Only activates when declared at the beginning at your opponents turn, it forces your opponents 'mechs to ignore any effects from their Homing Beacon/NARC equipment.

Heating & Cooling:

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Emergency Coolant Systems

Only activates when shutdown on the dial (Showing three radioactive symbols), the unit looses 2 heat, doesn't shut down, ignores heat effects and gains an order token.  It is also RISC gear, and if a roll fails for it's use it may do 2 damage (pushing, which cannot be lessened by anything) to the unit mounting it.  Probably an offshoot of the coolant pods.

Quote
Heat Sink Override Kits

RISC gear that allows a Mech to fire both their primary and secondary attacks at one target in the same turn, provided they are in range.  the RISC roll is made before the second attack, and if it fails the unit is dealt one pushing damage.  No real analogue in CBT, however it could be a tool that allows you to fire a wepaon more than once i na turn at the expense of it failing.

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Radical Heat Sinks

Adds 1 to your overall vent rating but has a chance of "falling off" each time a vent order is issued (where the 'mech just sits and vents built-up heat).  Probably something akin to the old 3039 "Freezers" that used corrosive coolants.

That's all for now.  I have a life you know!
Cowdragon:
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Onisuzume

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #86 on: 03 August 2011, 12:13:27 »
Quote
I can see MRMs leaving
I declare a trial of grievance!
Personally, I'd think it more likely for MRMs to be developed even further, either with special ammunition, or an improved MRM system which does have a basic guidance system on the missiles.
No-one will make jokes about MRMs then.
And even so, MRMs can still be fairly effective weapons (using my MRM-MAD as an example  6× MRM-10 and a LL).

Glory to the Combine Snow Lily Empire!

Prince of Darkness

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #87 on: 03 August 2011, 13:24:12 »
Well, we now have the Apollo FCS, for "improving".

I really like the idea, however; make like an "Enhanced MRM" with an integral Apollo FCS, which still suffer a -1 on the cluster hits table from their lack of a guiadance system but gain range brackets like that of the Large laser; and gaining special munitions, of course.  That would actually make them worthwhile.
Cowdragon:
I'm going to type up your response, print it, fold it in half, and look at it like a I would a centerfold. THAT's how sexy your answer was.

Demos

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #88 on: 03 August 2011, 13:30:31 »
...and gaining special munitions, of course. 
Dunno, it should fire dumb ammo. I could see maybe something like smoke, incendiary and frag, but nothing more - sophisticated.
And yes, the Apollo is great. A shame that it's not used more widely in official  - especially combine - designs.
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Diplominator

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #89 on: 03 August 2011, 19:18:09 »
After today, all I want is iATMs for IS Clans so I can refit a Turkina D and have it be even more appalling.