Author Topic: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)  (Read 99677 times)

Luciora

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #150 on: 13 March 2022, 00:21:46 »
I'm trying to find a way to balance the G1 toys with the MP toy release.  A mix of animated and toy, if that make sense.  Ratchet, the way I'm planning would look like the Animated/MP toy, then his vee mode would be like Optimus and his trailer.  If that makes sense  :)

RifleMech

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #151 on: 13 March 2022, 02:26:37 »
Thanks.

Alana was an outlier and I didn't deal with her. In fact, she didn't even appear on the cast lists of the seasons I touched on. Moreover, she doesn't even have a toy to work with, so... yeah, no.

As to Broadside, who did you think the AutoMech Luftenburg on my list was? ;)

Thank you.  :beer:

 ;D

A cool non-converting AutoMech. I was thinking of one that could convert and storm the beaches after launching it's drones.


You know, I never had an original G1 of Ratchet or Ironhide (or Prime, really; closest I got in original series toys was an Ultra Magnus), but I honestly didn't like the way Ironhide and Ratchet seemed to look as toys, which didn't match their cartoon versions. They had too much of a Go-Bots vibe to me, and I always felt the Go-Bots designers were just phoning in their work. Heck, looking at the toys, it wasn't until about 2008 that we got a Ratchet who looked the way I preferred. Still, hey, if you want to nod to that, uh, gun-thing he and Ironhide had, go for it!

Ultimately, all I can do is make suggestions here. You're the one creative enough to actually make something of them, which I find totally more awesome.

- Herb


If I remember right, Ironhide was my first transformer. I got Rachet later. I was disappointed they didn't look like they did in the animation but I was still happy to have them. They were kind of cool though in that Ironhide and Ratchet could work as two units or one. They remind me now of a pickup with a truck camper.

I liked the GoBots. I don't think the show was as good but I liked the toys. I'm glad they got folded in with Transformers. I always played with them together anyway.


I'm trying to find a way to balance the G1 toys with the MP toy release.  A mix of animated and toy, if that make sense.  Ratchet, the way I'm planning would look like the Animated/MP toy, then his vee mode would be like Optimus and his trailer.  If that makes sense  :)

Kinda. I'm looking forward to seeing how he turns out.  :thumbsup:

Luciora

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #152 on: 13 March 2022, 04:19:08 »
I may do some additional work on the vehicle, but this way, the main mech has 6 wheels , 2x4 with the rest supporting what is now the trailer.  No I'm not going to kitbash the weapons/repair platform mode.  It was hard enough removing enough of the Wolverine chassis to fit the new boxy torso to the point that I'm not looking forward to Ironhide's kitbash  :P
« Last Edit: 13 March 2022, 11:30:15 by Luciora »

RifleMech

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #153 on: 13 March 2022, 06:51:54 »
Herb, the Illegal Quirk would apply Syberian Drones, right?


I may do some additional work on the vehicle, but this way, the main mech has 6 wheels , 2x4 with the rest supporting what is now the trailer.  No I'm not going to kitbash the weapons/repair platform mode.  It was hard enough removing enough of the Wolverine chassis to fit the new boxy torso to the point that I'm not looking forward to Ironhide's kitbash  :P


Sounds good. :)  Aww. I was looking forward to seeing what you'd come up with but I can understand that. Maybe one of Ironhide's other toy forms? https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Ironhide_(G1)/toys

Luciora

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #154 on: 13 March 2022, 11:36:09 »
Oops forgot to add the picture

HABeas2

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #155 on: 13 March 2022, 12:36:19 »
A cool non-converting AutoMech. I was thinking of one that could convert and storm the beaches after launching it's drones.

The best you'd get would be a maritime Soundwave. No flight deck is small enough for a convertible BT unit, even under the looser Syberian rules.

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If I remember right, Ironhide was my first transformer. I got Rachet later. I was disappointed they didn't look like they did in the animation but I was still happy to have them. They were kind of cool though in that Ironhide and Ratchet could work as two units or one. They remind me now of a pickup with a truck camper.

I liked the GoBots. I don't think the show was as good but I liked the toys. I'm glad they got folded in with Transformers. I always played with them together anyway.

I'm sure most kids did. I just felt they lacked personality that the Transformers had. I like that they merged in too, though; their lore always did seem pretty compatible, and some re-interpretations of their design in more recent years has given them the personality I always thought they lacked.

I'm trying to find a way to balance the G1 toys with the MP toy release.  A mix of animated and toy, if that make sense.  Ratchet, the way I'm planning would look like the Animated/MP toy, then his vee mode would be like Optimus and his trailer.  If that makes sense  :)

Animated is a great inspiration as well, I must admit. I was originally thrown by the art style, but it definitely grew on me, and their full-throated adaptation of the notion that many Transformers share body types from the moment of their forging was one particular area that inspired me to do the same for the Syberian AutoMechs.

- Herb

HABeas2

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #156 on: 13 March 2022, 13:10:01 »
Herb, the Illegal Quirk would apply Syberian Drones, right?

In the context of a game in the "normal" BattleTech universe, yes.

In the context of the CNAZ, nope. Something about that area is outright bizarre.

- Herb

idea weenie

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #157 on: 13 March 2022, 15:55:18 »
The best you'd get would be a maritime Soundwave. No flight deck is small enough for a convertible BT unit, even under the looser Syberian rules.

- Herb

I see two design options for a water-borne Soundwave:
1) Small version:
Soundwave launches VTOL minicons from itself to aid in storming the beach (primarily for spotting and drawing fire from enemy units)


2) Large version:
Soundwave is a Triple-changer, having a robot form, a boat form, and an interlink form that attaches to a non-transforming helicopter carrier.  So Soundwave first commands the helicopter carrier that supports other Automechs (refueling, ammo loading, repair tools, weapon bays), and when it is time to attack Soundwave can join the attack while sending basic instructions to the (very stupid) drone brain on the Heli carrier.  Maybe Soundwave can provide its targeting bonus to a single weapon when interlinked?  So the drone might have Gunnery 5 (or 6?) normally, but when Sounwave is interlinked one of the guns gets to use Soundwave's Gunnery skill.

The nice part is that by using interlink that benefit can be applied to a different gun each tactical turn.  For other Automechs that link to a gun to provide their benefit, they have to physically relocate to another weapon to provide their benefit to that weapon.

Example: assume an Automech version of the Jormungand.  Ironhide is linked to one of the Long Tom artillery cannons, to provide high accuracy firepower.  A DemoCon flyer gets in range, and Ironhide has to physically relocate to interlink with the LRM-20 launchers to drive off that flyer.

A Jormungand that is designed to interlink with Soundwave (and Soundwave is linked) is a much nastier opponent.  Soundwave can fire one of the Long Tom cannons every turn, using its own Gunnery skill when firing.  If attacked by a flyer, Soundwave can immediately shift its attention to the LRM-20 launcher in the correct arc, and open fire.  Nect turn a submersible unit is detected, and Soundwave takes control of one of the LRT-20 launchers.

RifleMech

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #158 on: 13 March 2022, 17:25:01 »
The best you'd get would be a maritime Soundwave. No flight deck is small enough for a convertible BT unit, even under the looser Syberian rules.

That's what I was thinking. :) Tiny convertible drones would be nice but fixed mode drones are cool too.


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I'm sure most kids did. I just felt they lacked personality that the Transformers had. I like that they merged in too, though; their lore always did seem pretty compatible, and some re-interpretations of their design in more recent years has given them the personality I always thought they lacked.

I think that's because they didn't get the screen time many transformers did. I did like that some GoBots became redecoed Transformers later. It'd be nice if they rereleased the original toys but redecorated TFs is cool too.  I wouldn't complain if I got one.

Quote
Animated is a great inspiration as well, I must admit. I was originally thrown by the art style, but it definitely grew on me, and their full-throated adaptation of the notion that many Transformers share body types from the moment of their forging was one particular area that inspired me to do the same for the Syberian AutoMechs.

- Herb

I haven't gotten to watch a lot of the newer Transformers but wondering around TFU, I did see a lot of cool designs. And some really funky ones. I think it opens things up so that there's older and newer variants.


I see two design options for a water-borne Soundwave:
1) Small version:
Soundwave launches VTOL minicons from itself to aid in storming the beach (primarily for spotting and drawing fire from enemy units)


2) Large version:
Soundwave is a Triple-changer, having a robot form, a boat form, and an interlink form that attaches to a non-transforming helicopter carrier.  So Soundwave first commands the helicopter carrier that supports other Automechs (refueling, ammo loading, repair tools, weapon bays), and when it is time to attack Soundwave can join the attack while sending basic instructions to the (very stupid) drone brain on the Heli carrier.  Maybe Soundwave can provide its targeting bonus to a single weapon when interlinked?  So the drone might have Gunnery 5 (or 6?) normally, but when Sounwave is interlinked one of the guns gets to use Soundwave's Gunnery skill.

(snip)


I was thinking more the first one. I hadn't thought about interlinking but that could be an option.

I'm not sure why Ironhide wouldn't have the same interlinking capability that Soundwave has. I'm also not sure why he wouldn't just fire a flak round from the Long Tom at the enemy seeker.

idea weenie

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #159 on: 13 March 2022, 17:59:57 »
I'm not sure why Ironhide wouldn't have the same interlinking capability that Soundwave has. I'm also not sure why he wouldn't just fire a flak round from the Long Tom at the enemy seeker.

Ironhide interlinking is physically going directly to the weapon, a quick few second action where Ironhide still has arms and legs and the ability to use them.  Soundwave's interlink is a dedicated transformation that allows his mind to fully link with the entire ship.  In this mode Soundwave cannot move without transforming out of it.

Think of Ironhide's link as a USB plug in on a remote terminal, while Soundwave's link as becoming a mainframe-adjunct.  Soundwave will be doing far more processing and will need access to the ship's cooling grid to keep from overheating.  Instead of the small cable seen when cartoon Soundwave links to a Decepticon computer, this would be a massive array of cables connecting to access ports that are revealed when Soundwave assume this third mode.  Think of it like when the Paranoid Commander links to his spaceship's Dinomech mode.  Or when the two robots (Ail-1 and Toil) linked to the surface activators.


As to ammo, I was just going with standard ammo for all the weapons to keep it relatively simple.  I also figure that non-artillery weapons would be easier to use to hit airborne targets.

RifleMech

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #160 on: 13 March 2022, 21:22:39 »
Ironhide interlinking is physically going directly to the weapon, a quick few second action where Ironhide still has arms and legs and the ability to use them.  Soundwave's interlink is a dedicated transformation that allows his mind to fully link with the entire ship.  In this mode Soundwave cannot move without transforming out of it.

Think of Ironhide's link as a USB plug in on a remote terminal, while Soundwave's link as becoming a mainframe-adjunct.  Soundwave will be doing far more processing and will need access to the ship's cooling grid to keep from overheating.  Instead of the small cable seen when cartoon Soundwave links to a Decepticon computer, this would be a massive array of cables connecting to access ports that are revealed when Soundwave assume this third mode.  Think of it like when the Paranoid Commander links to his spaceship's Dinomech mode.  Or when the two robots (Ail-1 and Toil) linked to the surface activators.

Oh okay. That's a bit more interlinking than I'd care to go but if it works for you that's cool. I think I'd rather go with  remote controlled systems and less smart drones.

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As to ammo, I was just going with standard ammo for all the weapons to keep it relatively simple.  I also figure that non-artillery weapons would be easier to use to hit airborne targets.

Flak Artillery Ammo is handwavium for Standard Artillery Ammo fired at aircraft. I'm not sure what the to hit number would be but the Long Tom Artillery has a much greater range than LRMs.

HABeas2

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #161 on: 14 March 2022, 01:09:13 »
Oh okay. That's a bit more interlinking than I'd care to go but if it works for you that's cool. I think I'd rather go with  remote controlled systems and less smart drones.

Erm. Per the rules, even of the CalNeb, the AutoMechs themselves ARE "smart drones."

- Herb

RifleMech

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #162 on: 14 March 2022, 01:30:20 »
Erm. Per the rules, even of the CalNeb, the AutoMechs themselves ARE "smart drones."

- Herb

I thought the cassettes, and similar, were drone drones.  ???

HABeas2

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #163 on: 14 March 2022, 01:41:00 »
I thought the cassettes, and similar, were drone drones.  ???

In the case of this particular setting, they were "drones," yes, but only insomuch that they could only operate within a certain range of their command unit, and that they could be cut off by ECM, prompting an immediate retreat or shutdown. I didn't add any other restrictions beyond those, and even allowed non-battle armor units to be designated as "drones" with no real change to their construction whatsoever. This made what was a "drone" to the AutoMechs, and what wasn't, a mostly academic distinction up to the creator's whim.

And, as whims would have it, I opted to call all the cassettes drones. ;)

I then added a few more full-size drones to the mix, such as Cyclonus's armada and Scourge's Sweeps--who are basically just "pale copies" of their masters (although I did say the Cyclonus drones can't transform, and the Sweeps' vehicle modes were AirMech versions of Scourge...again, on a whim).

But to the real BT universe, the whole lot of the AutoMechs of Syberia, from the littlest aeroscout to the biggest DropShip, and all the goofy transforming mechanisms in between...they're all drones. Drones that have gone out of control and whose override codes have been lost to time, but drones, nonetheless.

(Oh, and drones that just happen not to follow the decision trees, because those weren't even a thing when they were created, leaving them with a more...randomized battle behavior.)

- Herb

glitterboy2098

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #164 on: 14 March 2022, 02:19:03 »
possible idea for a non-transforming automech.. Shockwave done as a Cyclops variant. i don't think they ever showed him transforming in the shows i've seen, and the toys apparently don't have a standard form, instead being all over the place for alt-modes. so him not being a transforming model wouldn't be much of a stretch.

alternately could be a highlander variant, i guess?

« Last Edit: 14 March 2022, 02:25:22 by glitterboy2098 »

idea weenie

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #165 on: 14 March 2022, 02:38:19 »
Oh okay. That's a bit more interlinking than I'd care to go but if it works for you that's cool. I think I'd rather go with  remote controlled systems and less smart drones.

As to remote controlled systems and smart drones, I figure the Jormungand equipped in this manner with Soundwave interfacing would be similar to G1's Teletraan-1 being used by Optimus Prime.  Soundwave would be able to remote control it from anywhere on board or within direct communication range, but that Jormungand would be forced to use its own Piloting/Gunnery ratings.  So the Jormungand is a dumb drone, but only specific control signals (the correct frequencies/encryption) will be obeyed.  Similar to the shuttle used in the 1986 Transformers movie, these larger drones only do what they is told, but can at least be put on automatic with basic instructions.

Another example might be an ARTS-style repair bay that can handle the basics, but if Ratchet or others with the correct skills can link in then Ratchet's Technician skills can be used instead of the basic skills that an ARTS bay uses.


The interlink ability was me thinking of a way to give an Automech's enhanced Gunnery to another unit's weaponry.  I figured it should have some penalty as a result, and decided to go with needing a dedicated transformation mode.  The other option would be adding the full drone hardware to give a full Gunnery and Piloting upgrade to the vessel, potentially giving that vessel a full intelligence as well.  A full upgrade would require more mass than the interlink systems, but would also provide the Gunnery bonus to all of the vessel's weaponry instead of just the one that the linked Automech was providing.  The drone used in this manner would be much cheaper than an actual (non-transforming) Automech due to the lower computer tech required to built it.

This interlink tech could even be an early version of the Headmaster transformers that only have two modes - robot and control system.  Essentially the Automechs started with a 2-mode transformer, and added a third mode to provide the datalinks needed.  As tech crawls on and industry steadily grows, the units with interlink ability will gradually shed their vehicle mode to provide better capabilities (or just be smaller).

RifleMech

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #166 on: 14 March 2022, 05:20:45 »
In the case of this particular setting, they were "drones," yes, but only insomuch that they could only operate within a certain range of their command unit, and that they could be cut off by ECM, prompting an immediate retreat or shutdown. I didn't add any other restrictions beyond those, and even allowed non-battle armor units to be designated as "drones" with no real change to their construction whatsoever. This made what was a "drone" to the AutoMechs, and what wasn't, a mostly academic distinction up to the creator's whim.

(snip)

(Oh, and drones that just happen not to follow the decision trees, because those weren't even a thing when they were created, leaving them with a more...randomized battle behavior.)

- Herb

That's cool. So all the drones have AIs? If they do, why limit how far they can operate on their own?  ???

I know the command decision trees weren't a thing then but I was thinking the drones creators would have created their own on the way to the AI drones. A tech progression, just sooner and eventually more advanced than the SLDF's. I was thinking the drones without AIs and those using them mostly be relics using older technology.  For example, Broadside using remote controlled drones while Soundwave uses AI drones.

I also wondered about using the illegal quirk for similar reasons. Those drones were failed experiments that somehow managed to survive. Kind of like Syberian versions of the Champion LAM and Scorpion LAM. I kind of figured they might try the same kinds of things and fail that IS designers did later on.

Can AutoMechs have Chassis Mods? If so, would they pay extra weight for them? Examples being Beachcomber having the Dune Buggy Mod.  Or Water Walk having the Flotation Hull Mod? Would he be built using an Industrial chassis as a conventional fighter, since flotation hulls aren't allowed for aerospace fighters?
 
Thanks :)





As to remote controlled systems and smart drones, I figure the Jormungand equipped in this manner with Soundwave interfacing would be similar to G1's Teletraan-1 being used by Optimus Prime.  Soundwave would be able to remote control it from anywhere on board or within direct communication range, but that Jormungand would be forced to use its own Piloting/Gunnery ratings.  So the Jormungand is a dumb drone, but only specific control signals (the correct frequencies/encryption) will be obeyed.  Similar to the shuttle used in the 1986 Transformers movie, these larger drones only do what they is told, but can at least be put on automatic with basic instructions.

Another example might be an ARTS-style repair bay that can handle the basics, but if Ratchet or others with the correct skills can link in then Ratchet's Technician skills can be used instead of the basic skills that an ARTS bay uses.

I don't recall anyone actually linking to Teletran like that, except maybe Soundwave through a wire. They usually contacted him through com equipment or treated him like a computer. I figure he'd be more a non-converting drone  since in the animation he did launch and control a satellite drone to rebuild the transformers.



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The interlink ability was me thinking of a way to give an Automech's enhanced Gunnery to another unit's weaponry.  I figured it should have some penalty as a result, and decided to go with needing a dedicated transformation mode.  The other option would be adding the full drone hardware to give a full Gunnery and Piloting upgrade to the vessel, potentially giving that vessel a full intelligence as well.  A full upgrade would require more mass than the interlink systems, but would also provide the Gunnery bonus to all of the vessel's weaponry instead of just the one that the linked Automech was providing.  The drone used in this manner would be much cheaper than an actual (non-transforming) Automech due to the lower computer tech required to built it.

This interlink tech could even be an early version of the Headmaster transformers that only have two modes - robot and control system.  Essentially the Automechs started with a 2-mode transformer, and added a third mode to provide the datalinks needed.  As tech crawls on and industry steadily grows, the units with interlink ability will gradually shed their vehicle mode to provide better capabilities (or just be smaller).

If it's just controlling weaponry or using another drone to spot for them, it sounds like some kind of C3 Tech. That could be some kind of quirk since some units in older TROs did have abilities like that. They were just more limited than a full C3 system.



possible idea for a non-transforming automech.. Shockwave done as a Cyclops variant. i don't think they ever showed him transforming in the shows i've seen, and the toys apparently don't have a standard form, instead being all over the place for alt-modes. so him not being a transforming model wouldn't be much of a stretch.

alternately could be a highlander variant, i guess?

Those could be good mechs for him. I do remember him converting in the original series. He's be hanging out as a gun and then convert to a Robot.

HABeas2

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #167 on: 14 March 2022, 05:27:28 »
possible idea for a non-transforming automech.. Shockwave done as a Cyclops variant. i don't think they ever showed him transforming in the shows i've seen, and the toys apparently don't have a standard form, instead being all over the place for alt-modes. so him not being a transforming model wouldn't be much of a stretch.

alternately could be a highlander variant, i guess?

In the original G1 cartoons, Shockwave transforms very few times, but he is shown in his gun mode when he does--without size changing. In later incarnations, Shockwave has appeared mostly as a Cybertronian tank. It was the tank form I preferred to use in my list, making him one of the Tankus models (in his case, he became known as Shocker [Tankus], had a Highlander Mech mode, and a Rommel tank mode....though as I now think about it, given his Cybertronian tank style, a Marksman M1 would probably fit him better. Yeah, yeah, that'll do much better!) I considered Cyclops, not just for the one-eye look, but the broad square chest, bulky back, and wide feet, but the roundness of his head...and I just realized none of my issues with that couldn't be dealt with easily enough. Well, damn. Shocker Tankus is getting a total makeover. Thanks, Glitterboy!

This interlink tech could even be an early version of the Headmaster transformers that only have two modes - robot and control system.  Essentially the Automechs started with a 2-mode transformer, and added a third mode to provide the datalinks needed.  As tech crawls on and industry steadily grows, the units with interlink ability will gradually shed their vehicle mode to provide better capabilities (or just be smaller).

We did discuss Headmaster and Targetmaster units earlier, but as far as the "canon" for Syberians goes (such as it is), I envisioned they never achieved it there. Plus, they--and the Powermasters--were basically a combiner variation, which I didn't dare approach beyond the concept of coordinated teams. Instead of merging for the kill, Team Constructor just triangulates its six members really well against an enemy and hits them from all sides at once.

The Syberians, while capable of some degree of learning, are not capable of innovating when it comes to tech, however. Everything they create is based on specs their long-dead human masters left them with.

- Herb

HABeas2

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #168 on: 14 March 2022, 05:45:16 »
That's cool. So all the drones have AIs? If they do, why limit how far they can operate on their own?  ???

Arbitrary dependency. Their AIs are constantly coordinating with the master units much like the coordinated teams that have replaced the combiners in this setting. Outside of the master's range, they get "lost."

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I know the command decision trees weren't a thing then but I was thinking the drones creators would have created their own on the way to the AI drones. A tech progression, just sooner and eventually more advanced than the SLDF's. I was thinking the drones without AIs and those using them mostly be relics using older technology.  For example, Broadside using remote controlled drones while Soundwave uses AI drones.

That may be a step or two deeper into the weeds than I would consider necessary, but if it works on your table, have fun with it. Remember this was all going into a playable "joke" project that was made on a shoestring budget and no playtesting. I can delve deep into my fun projects, but after a point, they stop being fun and start being work. These days, I have less tolerance for the latter.
 
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I also wondered about using the illegal quirk for similar reasons. Those drones were failed experiments that somehow managed to survive. Kind of like Syberian versions of the Champion LAM and Scorpion LAM. I kind of figured they might try the same kinds of things and fail that IS designers did later on.

Had they possessed the specs, maybe. But if the specs were never given to them, no. As I just said in another reply, the Sybertronians can't innovate; they can only build what they already know how to build, with alterations that are ultimately more cosmetic than anything. Creativity takes more sentience than they actually have.

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Can AutoMechs have Chassis Mods? If so, would they pay extra weight for them? Examples being Beachcomber having the Dune Buggy Mod.  Or Water Walk having the Flotation Hull Mod? Would he be built using an Industrial chassis as a conventional fighter, since flotation hulls aren't allowed for aerospace fighters?

Erf, I'd say the transforming ones can have chassis mods legal to their 'Mech type. A key thing about all transforming Mechs in Battletech--including those in the CNAZ: they are ALWAYS BattleMechs/WorkMechs first and foremost. they may have some extra tricks and such, but at the end of the day, their alt modes are functional costumes. A LAM is a BattleMech in fighter drag. A Syberian AutoMech that becomes a tank is a BattleMech in tracked vehicle drag. Odds are, if the component you want has an "NA" in the column for 'Mech slots, it'd be unavailable under legal construction rules, and you'd have to make up the slots for it if you wanted to put it on anyway. If you want it, in your games, go nuts. For me, it's a bridge I'd have to decide to nuke or not only if and when I got there.

Meanwhile, my Beach Beetle is basically a Beetle-class AutoMech that happens to have a different-looking vehicle mode than most other Beetles.

- Herb

HABeas2

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #169 on: 14 March 2022, 05:50:11 »
Oh, I almost forgot...

Here's the spreadsheet I put together that I keep referring to.

- Herb

RifleMech

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #170 on: 14 March 2022, 06:21:56 »
Arbitrary dependency. Their AIs are constantly coordinating with the master units much like the coordinated teams that have replaced the combiners in this setting. Outside of the master's range, they get "lost."

Oh. Okay. That's cool. :)

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That may be a step or two deeper into the weeds than I would consider necessary, but if it works on your table, have fun with it. Remember this was all going into a playable "joke" project that was made on a shoestring budget and no playtesting. I can delve deep into my fun projects, but after a point, they stop being fun and start being work. These days, I have less tolerance for the latter.

:) That's cool. I like options. The more there are, the greater the variety. Otherwise things quickly end up being the same. And that's totally understandable. It is a four letter word. One I'm allergic to. 
 
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Had they possessed the specs, maybe. But if the specs were never given to them, no. As I just said in another reply, the Sybertronians can't innovate; they can only build what they already know how to build, with alterations that are ultimately more cosmetic than anything. Creativity takes more sentience than they actually have.

I was thinking created by the humans, not the drones. The drones might make new parts once in a while but I don't think they'd create new drones of a design that their creators considered failures.


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Erf, I'd say the transforming ones can have chassis mods legal to their 'Mech type. A key thing about all transforming Mechs in Battletech--including those in the CNAZ: they are ALWAYS BattleMechs/WorkMechs first and foremost. they may have some extra tricks and such, but at the end of the day, their alt modes are functional costumes. A LAM is a BattleMech in fighter drag. A Syberian AutoMech that becomes a tank is a BattleMech in tracked vehicle drag. Odds are, if the component you want has an "NA" in the column for 'Mech slots, it'd be unavailable under legal construction rules, and you'd have to make up the slots for it if you wanted to put it on anyway. If you want it, in your games, go nuts. For me, it's a bridge I'd have to decide to nuke or not only if and when I got there.

Meanwhile, my Beach Beetle is basically a Beetle-class AutoMech that happens to have a different-looking vehicle mode than most other Beetles.

- Herb

That's cool :) I was just wondering to make them more unique. I do know if a unit has NA they can't use that component but there should be some allowances since converting Mechs aren't normal. So if Chassis Mods were available a Tankus class AutoMech could be amphibious.


That's cool. A lot of buggies were made out of Beetles. It wouldn't be the first time different mechs shared the same chassis.  :thumbsup:

Thanks  :thumbsup:


Oh, I almost forgot...

Here's the spreadsheet I put together that I keep referring to.

- Herb

Thanks! I'm looking forward to looking at it more when my eyes aren't so blurry.  :beer: :thumbsup:


HABeas2

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #171 on: 14 March 2022, 07:00:41 »
I was thinking created by the humans, not the drones. The drones might make new parts once in a while but I don't think they'd create new drones of a design that their creators considered failures.

You'd be right. But the humans on Syberia only lived for about 100 years before their conflicts wiped them out. They accomplished quite a lot when you consider they devised their own practical AI tech, a while slew of new transforming Mech types (however questionable), and made all of that their "gold standard" while simultaneously building a society and then breaking up it up into factions who would inevitably fall to an apocalyptic war.

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That's cool :) I was just wondering to make them more unique. I do know if a unit has NA they can't use that component but there should be some allowances since converting Mechs aren't normal. So if Chassis Mods were available a Tankus class AutoMech could be amphibious.

Technically speaking, BattleMechs are always amphibious; they just can't float very well.

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That's cool. A lot of buggies were made out of Beetles. It wouldn't be the first time different mechs shared the same chassis.  :thumbsup:

Sure, but as is evident in Beetle Bee's design, most Beetle AutoMechs actually convert into more sedan-like vehicles, rather than dune buggies or bugs. heck, even the Bug AutoMechs don't do that. Of course, that's all mainly because I'm limiting my selections to minis IWM actually makes. Players willing to go farther afield may find more interesting designs elsewhere.

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Thanks! I'm looking forward to looking at it more when my eyes aren't so blurry.  :beer: :thumbsup:

Good luck. My eyes have gone steadily more blurry over the last five years, to the point where yesterday I need to read a clock through two overlapping magnifying glasses AND my readers.

- Herb

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #172 on: 14 March 2022, 14:01:27 »
You'd be right. But the humans on Syberia only lived for about 100 years before their conflicts wiped them out. They accomplished quite a lot when you consider they devised their own practical AI tech, a while slew of new transforming Mech types (however questionable), and made all of that their "gold standard" while simultaneously building a society and then breaking up it up into factions who would inevitably fall to an apocalyptic war.

That is a big accomplishment in a 100 years.


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Technically speaking, BattleMechs are always amphibious; they just can't float very well.

 :)  I was thinking making them float and of those built to industrial standards.


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Sure, but as is evident in Beetle Bee's design, most Beetle AutoMechs actually convert into more sedan-like vehicles, rather than dune buggies or bugs. heck, even the Bug AutoMechs don't do that. Of course, that's all mainly because I'm limiting my selections to minis IWM actually makes. Players willing to go farther afield may find more interesting designs elsewhere.

That's cool. It sounds like they started with a few basic chassis and then branched off from there. Limiting selections to IWM makes sense. It'd be nicer if all BT imagers were available to be used but they're not. :(


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Good luck. My eyes have gone steadily more blurry over the last five years, to the point where yesterday I need to read a clock through two overlapping magnifying glasses AND my readers.

- Herb

That's no good. :( I'm using readers instead of prescription lenses. I guess we should both see an eye doctor.

RifleMech

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #173 on: 14 March 2022, 18:51:38 »
Oh, I almost forgot...

Here's the spreadsheet I put together that I keep referring to.

- Herb

Looks great!  :thumbsup:

I was wondering about Scourge and the Sweeps. The Wasp LAM MkI works well if using later versions of Transformers. Universehttps://tfwiki.net/wiki/File:ScourgeAligned-UltimatePopUpUniverse.jpg I was wondering about using the Thrush ASF for a more G1 feel?

HABeas2

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #174 on: 14 March 2022, 20:42:32 »
That is a big accomplishment in a 100 years.

I know, right? And here you go, asking for MORE? Sheesh! Greedy, ain't ya? ;)

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:)  I was thinking making them float and of those built to industrial standards.

Well, again, if this is to be an item you want to borrow from other unit types that has no listing for its Mech slots, you'll need to answer that question, because that's how Mechs are built, with just about every game-valid item identified (and vulnerable to damage) via slot space. And we've gone about as deep into the weeds as I'm willing to get because trying to come up with rules for everything can get pretty exhausting. Hell, I suddenly realized I had a project due for publication in about two weeks late LAST NIGHT and I went "WTF am I screwing with all these Transformers for?"

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That's cool. It sounds like they started with a few basic chassis and then branched off from there. Limiting selections to IWM makes sense. It'd be nicer if all BT imagers were available to be used but they're not. :(

Again, the option to look elsewhere always exists for the bold. Poke around the internet and I'm sure you're bound to find a 3D printer or other game company's line of minis that fits better for your liking. I stuck with IWM and their BattleTech lines for the obvious reason that this was my idea of how to translate Transformers to BattleTech, rather than the other way around.

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That's no good. :( I'm using readers instead of prescription lenses. I guess we should both see an eye doctor.

I've been overdue for seeing an eye doctor for well over 10 years now. I probably have no means to cover a prescription anyway, and basically no funds to my name at all. SO I make do with magnifiers.

I was wondering about Scourge and the Sweeps. The Wasp LAM MkI works well if using later versions of Transformers. Universehttps://tfwiki.net/wiki/File:ScourgeAligned-UltimatePopUpUniverse.jpg I was wondering about using the Thrush ASF for a more G1 feel?

(Corrected your url above, btw.)

As probably evidenced with the fact that my versions of Megatron and Shockwave became tanks here, and my version of Wreck-Gar is using a garbage truck alt mode that only appeared in the TF Animated series (when he was voiced by the incomparable Weird Al), probably gives away the fact that I took some liberties. Among them was giving Syberian Scourge his flying wing toy form, rather than the goofy space sled with a face on it thing he had in the G1 cartoons.  If you'd prefer otherwise, well, again, you do you. I ain't stopping you; I'm just not using it that way in my CNAZ headcanon. :)

- Herb


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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #175 on: 14 March 2022, 21:44:31 »
I don't recall anyone actually linking to Teletran like that, except maybe Soundwave through a wire. They usually contacted him through com equipment or treated him like a computer. I figure he'd be more a non-converting drone  since in the animation he did launch and control a satellite drone to rebuild the transformers.

True.  The goal I would want is that the Automech when connecting through a 'deep link' would need to form a much larger connection surface than normal, thus the linking unit needing another transformation mode.  It wouldn't be like wearing the full body of the drone as their own, just boosting one critical area at a time.  So if there was an underwater threat, the linked unit could take the data from the sonar array to have a better chance at spotting the target, but the drone uses its on Gunnery when firing.  Or the linked unit tells the drone to scan for underwater threats, and if the drone spots the target the linked Automech uses its own Gunnery skill on the LRT.  A single linked unit cannot provide its bonus to the sonar and the LRT on the same tactical turn though.

Another comparison might be the game Five Nights at Freddy's, where you are one person watching through a dozen security cameras and needing to open and close doors at the correct times.  The Automech is a separate unit from the drone, is getting data from the drone, can focus on different locations one at a time, but cannot move while linked in and is limited to the drone's capabilities.


If it's just controlling weaponry or using another drone to spot for them, it sounds like some kind of C3 Tech. That could be some kind of quirk since some units in older TROs did have abilities like that. They were just more limited than a full C3 system. 

In this case it is using the other drone's sensors to spot, and the other drone's weapons to shoot.  The key is that Soundwave is using its better CPU/Gunnery skill vs a single target, and can swap its attention to any target in range and the appropriate gun rapidly.  If the drone had been designed with better computer systems to begin with, Soundwave wouldn't need to connect directly.

C3 is not available for the Syberian Automechs, so I couldn't use that.

I guess you could compare it to a drone control system, just controlling a drone larger than itself and needing a direct physical connection.

We did discuss Headmaster and Targetmaster units earlier, but as far as the "canon" for Syberians goes (such as it is), I envisioned they never achieved it there. Plus, they--and the Powermasters--were basically a combiner variation, which I didn't dare approach beyond the concept of coordinated teams. Instead of merging for the kill, Team Constructor just triangulates its six members really well against an enemy and hits them from all sides at once.

The Syberians, while capable of some degree of learning, are not capable of innovating when it comes to tech, however. Everything they create is based on specs their long-dead human masters left them with.

- Herb

True, it would need one of them to take the idea of "connect with a small drone" and change that to "connect with a large drone".  From there they would have to search their history for larger designs, and then develop an interface for it.  The first interface would be the drone extending a connection to fit inside the controlling unit, and the Automechs would eventually have to make the leap to having the connection on the outside of the Automech rather than the inside (though this would need a dedicated mode so would take even longer).

RifleMech

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #176 on: 14 March 2022, 23:54:42 »
I know, right? And here you go, asking for MORE? Sheesh! Greedy, ain't ya? ;)

It just shows how good it is.  ^-^


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Well, again, if this is to be an item you want to borrow from other unit types that has no listing for its Mech slots, you'll need to answer that question, because that's how Mechs are built, with just about every game-valid item identified (and vulnerable to damage) via slot space. And we've gone about as deep into the weeds as I'm willing to get because trying to come up with rules for everything can get pretty exhausting. Hell, I suddenly realized I had a project due for publication in about two weeks late LAST NIGHT and I went "WTF am I screwing with all these Transformers for?"

I don't recall any slots being needed. Just weight so I'm going to guess it's okay. Yeah, I guess it can be but it can be worth it too. Lol. Because Transformers are cool.  ;) I hope your project goes well. :)


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Again, the option to look elsewhere always exists for the bold. Poke around the internet and I'm sure you're bound to find a 3D printer or other game company's line of minis that fits better for your liking. I stuck with IWM and their BattleTech lines for the obvious reason that this was my idea of how to translate Transformers to BattleTech, rather than the other way around.

I would love to get a 3D printer. Unfortunately, its so far down the list of things I need to spend money on it doesn't make the list. I can also understand sticking with IWM minis. It'd be nice if BT had other came markers that could be used though.


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I've been overdue for seeing an eye doctor for well over 10 years now. I probably have no means to cover a prescription anyway, and basically no funds to my name at all. SO I make do with magnifiers.

Ditto. :( I just hope it won't end up being another 10 like last time.

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(Corrected your url above, btw.)

As probably evidenced with the fact that my versions of Megatron and Shockwave became tanks here, and my version of Wreck-Gar is using a garbage truck alt mode that only appeared in the TF Animated series (when he was voiced by the incomparable Weird Al), probably gives away the fact that I took some liberties. Among them was giving Syberian Scourge his flying wing toy form, rather than the goofy space sled with a face on it thing he had in the G1 cartoons.  If you'd prefer otherwise, well, again, you do you. I ain't stopping you; I'm just not using it that way in my CNAZ headcanon. :)

- Herb

Thanks.

That's cool. Some are cool designs. And I suppose converting motorcycles would be a bit too far for BT. Especially, mech sized ones. What is his alt form supposed to be? A Spaceship? Hovercraft? Flying Boat? The Thrush might be an improvement. Could make him an airship, I guess.  :))   https://tfwiki.net/wiki/File:Hearts_of_Steel_Scourge.JPG
Now for Balloon. https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Balloon
The Crab might work for the Mech Mode. Leave off the top laser and reverse the legs. Hmm...don't have an Airship form listed. Very slow FighterMechs?

RifleMech

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #177 on: 15 March 2022, 00:48:01 »
True.  The goal I would want is that the Automech when connecting through a 'deep link' would need to form a much larger connection surface than normal, thus the linking unit needing another transformation mode.  It wouldn't be like wearing the full body of the drone as their own, just boosting one critical area at a time.  So if there was an underwater threat, the linked unit could take the data from the sonar array to have a better chance at spotting the target, but the drone uses its on Gunnery when firing.  Or the linked unit tells the drone to scan for underwater threats, and if the drone spots the target the linked Automech uses its own Gunnery skill on the LRT.  A single linked unit cannot provide its bonus to the sonar and the LRT on the same tactical turn though.

Another comparison might be the game Five Nights at Freddy's, where you are one person watching through a dozen security cameras and needing to open and close doors at the correct times.  The Automech is a separate unit from the drone, is getting data from the drone, can focus on different locations one at a time, but cannot move while linked in and is limited to the drone's capabilities.

In this case it is using the other drone's sensors to spot, and the other drone's weapons to shoot.  The key is that Soundwave is using its better CPU/Gunnery skill vs a single target, and can swap its attention to any target in range and the appropriate gun rapidly.  If the drone had been designed with better computer systems to begin with, Soundwave wouldn't need to connect directly.

I get that. I'm just not seeing how they'd actually link up. I can kind of see a smaller drone climbing on top of another to plug in and then convert into a turret but there should be a to hit modifier to plug in. If it fails it doesn't connect.  You're also talking physically connecting. I was thinking more communicating electronically through com/control systems.

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C3 is not available for the Syberian Automechs, so I couldn't use that.

No but there are systems that are similar. You'd have to read the older TROs to find out what kind there are. I know the Partisan AA Tank has C3 abilities but there were others where one unit could control another's missiles. I can't remember which unit though. :(


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I guess you could compare it to a drone control system, just controlling a drone larger than itself and needing a direct physical connection.

I was thinking more conventional with com/control systems than physical.


Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #178 on: 15 March 2022, 03:55:08 »
I figured out Fortress Tiberius.  Avenger class DropShip.  Don't worry about the 'Mech mode.  I mean, it's not perfect, and it probably looks more like a Defiant class than a Constitution class, but it'd probably work.
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RifleMech

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #179 on: 15 March 2022, 19:40:36 »
Sounds cool!  :thumbsup:

If anyone is interested, I think I found a way for AutoMechs to use C3 equipment. The Nirasaki-400X Battle Computer. It was used to make the Fury Command Tank for the SLDF Royals. Reading through the lines from TRO:2750 pg 114, we learn that it weighs .5 tons. Adding up the weights on page 115 you can see the Fury is .75 tons underweight. . 5 tons without fractional accounting. The Fury II removes and replaces it with .5 tons of armor.
Reading TRO:3050U pg 178, we learn that it's a precursor to Comstar's/WoB's C3i system.

Here's my house rules for the Nirasaki.
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-designs-rules/the-nirasaki-400x-battle-computer/

For our purposes here though, since the Nirasaki was created by the Star League, the door is open for 3C use by drones. If you wanted to use C3.


 

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