Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)

[Luciora]

When i get a chance, I'll ping you on FB about how you want the pictures done Herb.  Been really busy at work and a bunch of other projects I've been doing.

[HABeas2]

Okay, Luc. Looking forward to those images.

And for now, folks, here's part 2 of the TRO section of TRO: Syberia (Units G through R). Enjoy the hysteria!

(And for those recently discussing the pros and cons of VTOLMech design, check out the Rotor.)

- Herb

[RifleMech]

I've seen the paragraph on rotors for VTOL Automechs a bunch of times.  1 ton, 2 crits, up to running speed, yeah, yeah, reskinned improved jump jets... VTOL mode cruise equals rotors*1.5, yeah, yeah.
I never glomed onto the fact that rotors provide VTOL MP in mech mode!

I thought that the 2 crits for Rotors had been changed?
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/welcome-to-the-nebula-california/msg1093924/#msg1093924

Yeah, the VTOL units are really strapped for variation. Though I think we managed some nevertheless, in the end it comes down to more cosmetic differences and armaments than speed and mass. I *have* tweaked the upper mass limits for AerofighterMechs and VTOLMechs, but not by a terrible lot. There really is, after all, only so much one can do with some things when you're trying to maintain a sense of standards in line with established rules and canon.

What are the tweaks?

I have noticed that there's only so much variation one can do without getting creative with the rules. LAMs are limited too. They all start to feel the same since there's so little variation in Aerospace Speed. I have thought of a work around for LAMs but seeing how it'd effect Aerospace too I'm not sure about it.

That being said....

At present, I'm 4 entries away from completing the second part of the main TRO section (Units G through R). For a fan project, this may be one of my longest slogs, let me tell you!

- Herb

And we appreciate it! Thank you!  :beer: :thumbsup:

[Wrangler]

Side question on your awesome book.  The Hopper, that's suppose to be the grasshopper shaped Insectacon.  Was it possible have partial wings to help it fly and stay cool?

[HABeas2]

I thought that the 2 crits for Rotors had been changed?
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/welcome-to-the-nebula-california/msg1093924/#msg1093924

Yes. VTOL Rotors are 1 ton/1 crit. A VTOLMech can mount up to its Running MP's worth of Rotors. The Rotors provide 1 VTOL MP each in BattleMech mode, and 1.5 Cruising VTOL MP each in VTOL mode.

What are the tweaks?

You really didn't notice the 75-ton BomberMech or the 50-ton VTOLMech? Welp. I tweaked those two classes' max tonnage. Syberian FighterMechs can now be built up to 75 tons, and VTOLMechs can now be built up to 50 tons. That's about it, really. I wanted to make more convincing Lugnut and Blackout expies.

Side question on your awesome book.  The Hopper, that's suppose to be the grasshopper shaped Insectacon.  Was it possible have partial wings to help it fly and stay cool?

The Partial Wing was a post-3060 creation and not a physical attack weapon, so the Syberians didn't develop it. There are a number of flight-capable Decepticons who become ground-bound in this realm; the classic Insecticons fall into that category.

- Herb

[RifleMech]

Yes. VTOL Rotors are 1 ton/1 crit. A VTOLMech can mount up to its Running MP's worth of Rotors. The Rotors provide 1 VTOL MP each in BattleMech mode, and 1.5 Cruising VTOL MP each in VTOL mode.

I thought so. Thanks!:)

You really didn't notice the 75-ton BomberMech or the 50-ton VTOLMech? Welp. I tweaked those two classes' max tonnage. Syberian FighterMechs can now be built up to 75 tons, and VTOLMechs can now be built up to 50 tons. That's about it, really. I wanted to make more convincing Lugnut and Blackout expies.

 :-[ Sorry. I haven't gotten that far yet. I hate power outages. I like the tweaks though.  :) :thumbsup:

The Partial Wing was a post-3060 creation and not a physical attack weapon, so the Syberians didn't develop it. There are a number of flight-capable Decepticons who become ground-bound in this realm; the classic Insecticons fall into that category.

- Herb

Syberians did develop extra legs and tails. Partial Wings kind of go along with them. If they're too good maybe something similar but not as good?

[HABeas2]

Syberians did develop extra legs and tails. Partial Wings kind of go along with them. If they're too good maybe something similar but not as good?

A couple things here.

Firstly, Wrangler was asking for the Hopper (a 40-ton bestial AutoMech) to get Partial Wings. While this would give it a 4/6/4 (6) and an effective heat control system of 13 points/turn...they'd cost the 'Mech another 3 tons. Swapping its Jump Jets with Jump Rockets and changing its sinks to Doubles would only cost it 1 and provide superior benefits, although the torsos become super-cramped in the bargain. Note that this is one of the few AutoMechs to have Commercial armor, because it just didn't have the tonnage for good protection. Even an extra 1-ton requirement gets expensive for a unit like it.

Secondly, Partial Wings are specifically prohibited to LAMs. In this case, I would put all Syberian convertible units into that same prohibition, because the Partial Wing is supposed to be a single, fixed component, while the torso segments of many convertible Syberians shift in the transformation process.

Thirdly, it appears that it was the Clans who developed Partial Wings first, and it was still in prototype phases in 3067. The Inner Sphere only got the tech from copying it later on. They Syberians never reached Clan-level engineering, and given how easily this tech can be substituted using extant rockets and double heat sinks, they probably would see such things as pointless.

Fourthly, given the above, making a Syberian equivalent that works differently/not as good would be redundant with the other stuff they made.

So... I'm gonna pass on that.

- Herb

[Wrangler]

I just finished the 2nd PDF of mechs you wrote, Herb. I was very overwhelmingly happy with all of it. You have your finger nearly all the Transformers I've ever heard of before. Nevermind things I never heard before.

While illegal for sure, the Bi-mod LAMs certainly offer perhaps less complication to the concept of LAMs.  Then again, these guys will never be official.

Thank you again working on this passion project. I may sound like I'm kissing ass, but really grateful such breath fresh air this is.  Its fantastic.

[HABeas2]

I just finished the 2nd PDF of mechs you wrote, Herb. I was very overwhelmingly happy with all of it. You have your finger nearly all the Transformers I've ever heard of before. Nevermind things I never heard before.

To be fair, I started out only planning to cover the G1 units from the cartoons, but some other items leaked in as others in this thread suggested and/or built them.

While illegal for sure, the Bi-mod LAMs certainly offer perhaps less complication to the concept of LAMs.  Then again, these guys will never be official.

Honestly, if LAMs did away with the AirMech mode, I probably would have no problem with them whatsoever, because it's the AirMech mode that always causes the problems.

Thank you again working on this passion project. I may sound like I'm kissing ass, but really grateful such breath fresh air this is.  Its fantastic.

I thank you much!

Aside to All: Be advised that the documents I've posted so far are still basically first drafts. I have made some tweaks across all the recent documents that will have to be re-released (for instance, I just upgraded the Cyclers to 75-tonners, because they were supposed to be BIG).

- Herb

[Daryk]

And here I thought it was the ASF mode...  ::)

[RifleMech]

A couple things here.

Firstly, Wrangler was asking for the Hopper (a 40-ton bestial AutoMech) to get Partial Wings. While this would give it a 4/6/4 (6) and an effective heat control system of 13 points/turn...they'd cost the 'Mech another 3 tons. Swapping its Jump Jets with Jump Rockets and changing its sinks to Doubles would only cost it 1 and provide superior benefits, although the torsos become super-cramped in the bargain. Note that this is one of the few AutoMechs to have Commercial armor, because it just didn't have the tonnage for good protection. Even an extra 1-ton requirement gets expensive for a unit like it.

Secondly, Partial Wings are specifically prohibited to LAMs. In this case, I would put all Syberian convertible units into that same prohibition, because the Partial Wing is supposed to be a single, fixed component, while the torso segments of many convertible Syberians shift in the transformation process.

Thirdly, it appears that it was the Clans who developed Partial Wings first, and it was still in prototype phases in 3067. The Inner Sphere only got the tech from copying it later on. They Syberians never reached Clan-level engineering, and given how easily this tech can be substituted using extant rockets and double heat sinks, they probably would see such things as pointless.

Fourthly, given the above, making a Syberian equivalent that works differently/not as good would be redundant with the other stuff they made.

So... I'm gonna pass on that.

- Herb

That's all cool and I'm totally okay with no Partial Wings. That said it's a physical thing and Syberians were a bit ahead of the IS and Clans in that area but it's okay. I wasn't thinking of an exact IS or Clan version anyway. Something similar yet different based on limbs.

Extra Legs are 2 tons and 2 crits per pair and function like Modular Armor. What if there was "Imitation Wings" that followed that example but worked like DHS  or DHS-P? At 2 tons and 2 crits per pair they'd be lighter and less bulky than Partial Wings or even DHS but they're also more susceptible to damage. A hit to the torso could damage them. While they work they'd also provide -4 heat but no added Jump MP. Granted I don't know where they'd be squeezed into the Hopper. Still for other BugMechs, the wings could help it look like an insect.

Question
Aren't the Extra Limbs supposed to be mounted in the Side Torsos?  ??? 1 Crit each side per pair of legs?

I also agree with Wranger. I haven't gotten through it all yet but they are fantastic and I'm grateful for them too.  :beer:

And here I thought it was the ASF mode...  ::)

That's what I thought. ;D   

[HABeas2]

Question
Aren't the Extra Limbs supposed to be mounted in the Side Torsos?  ??? 1 Crit each side per pair of legs?

Yup. I caught the error.

I also agree with Wranger. I haven't gotten through it all yet but they are fantastic and I'm grateful for them too.  :beer:

Thanks!

- Herb

[RifleMech]

Yup. I caught the error.

Thanks!

- Herb

Cool.  :thumbsup:

Thank you.  :beer:

[Wrangler]

Will we see civilian AutoMechs as well? I noticed that was mentioned here and there. I'd assume the classic Crosscut, Harvest Ant etc.

Funny thing there was abandoned what I would say was "Farmbots" which were suppose to be foil for Insecticons.  They extremely briefly appeared in animated commercial for the toys back ground where you could see briefly farm machines transforming.  I guess it was cut since it seem to be bit too far out concept.  Why.....well it was bit silly.  ;D  Its at :08 in the video. Quality quite bad.

[HABeas2]

Will we see civilian AutoMechs as well? I noticed that was mentioned here and there. I'd assume the classic Crosscut, Harvest Ant etc.

I didn't have any here that are based on WorkMechs...at least not until we get to the Hyena SalvageMech, which becomes Whirl's Mech mode; that one will be in the final section of the TRO chapter. But, I mean, WERE there any Transformers that could legitimately match the WorkMechs we have on hand? There's also a dearth of minis that would serve as civilian support vehicles. 

None of that is to say they'd be impossible to see; just that I've found nothing that would go with the WorkMechs we have to date. A few Support Vees made it, though...

Funny thing there was abandoned what I would say was "Farmbots" which were suppose to be foil for Insecticons.  They extremely briefly appeared in animated commercial for the toys back ground where you could see briefly farm machines transforming.  I guess it was cut since it seem to be bit too far out concept.  Why.....well it was bit silly.  ;D  Its at :08 in the video. Quality quite bad.

It's really difficult to see what's happening in that scene between the bad quality and the few frames we got on the action, so I'm not even sure they were supposed to be farm vehicles transforming...

But if we're thinking about THOSE kind of civilian units, a number of units in this book are based on Transformers that become civilian vehicles in their alternate modes.

- Herb

[idea weenie]

Just go through the list of non-weapon options for Vehs and Mechs, and see if any AutoMechs can have then attached.  For example, put two Mining Drills on a Veh mode and you can get Twin Twist

A few Equipment and Melee Weapon ideas would be:
- Mining Drill - Mech sized
- Industrial Drill-  BA sized
- Lift Hoist - Mech sized
- Cargo Lifter - BA sized
- Salvage Arm - both Mech & BA sized
- Rock Cutter - Mech sized
- Chainsaw - Mech sized

And before I forget, you have the Constructicons, Sixbuilder, and Landfill.

The original Autobots had several civilian vehicles as well.

Possible ideas are:
- a Support Vehicle train engine that pulls basic train cars to transport goods (and other Automechs)
- a flyer that can carry cargo as well
- an Automech that can become the brain for a Dropship (or other type of large vehicle)
- an Automech that transforms into a repair station
- Automechs who have above a certain percentage of their mass devoted to a non-combat items

Besides, some Automech classes might not be useful

[Wrangler]

I didn't have any here that are based on WorkMechs...at least not until we get to the Hyena SalvageMech, which becomes Whirl's Mech mode; that one will be in the final section of the TRO chapter. But, I mean, WERE there any Transformers that could legitimately match the WorkMechs we have on hand? There's also a dearth of minis that would serve as civilian support vehicles. 

None of that is to say they'd be impossible to see; just that I've found nothing that would go with the WorkMechs we have to date. A few Support Vees made it, though...

It's really difficult to see what's happening in that scene between the bad quality and the few frames we got on the action, so I'm not even sure they were supposed to be farm vehicles transforming...
But if we're thinking about THOSE kind of civilian units, a number of units in this book are based on Transformers that become civilian vehicles in their alternate modes.

- Herb

If you look frame where Insecticons arrived on the barn, you can see the yellow farm vehicles.

I was just mentioning them.  Its very little known about them.  I wished I could find better footage of it.

[HABeas2]

Just go through the list of non-weapon options for Vehs and Mechs, and see if any AutoMechs can have then attached.  For example, put two Mining Drills on a Veh mode and you can get Twin Twist

A few Equipment and Melee Weapon ideas would be:
- Mining Drill - Mech sized
- Industrial Drill-  BA sized
- Lift Hoist - Mech sized
- Cargo Lifter - BA sized
- Salvage Arm - both Mech & BA sized
- Rock Cutter - Mech sized
- Chainsaw -  sized

And before I forget, you have the Constructicons, Sixbuilder, and Landfill.

The original Autobots had several civilian vehicles as well.

Possible ideas are:
- a Support Vehicle train engine that pulls basic train cars to transport goods (and other Automechs)
- a flyer that can carry cargo as well
- an Automech that can become the brain for a Dropship (or other type of large vehicle)
- an Automech that transforms into a repair station
- Automechs who have above a certain percentage of their mass devoted to a non-combat items

Besides, some Automech classes might not be useful

And a number of those have made their appearances in this project. :) (Hmmm. Sixbuilder may be the closest thing to a Transformer that would work with an IndustrialMech mini, particularly the ConstructionMech...)

If you look frame where Insecticons arrived on the barn, you can see the yellow farm vehicles.

I was just mentioning them.  Its very little known about them.  I wished I could find better footage of it.

Same. That aside, though, I think we have a lot of civvie AutoMechs in this project already, if your criteria is for units that transform into civilian/industrial vehicles. I've also got a good number of named AutoMechs in the listings whose functions are non-combat, if you are looking for that. Just want to be sure what itch you're looking to scratch.

- Herb

[HABeas2]

Crude stats report:

In this project of mine, you'll find some 91 AutoMech classes that fall into the categories of 'Mechs, battle armor, and ultra-light support vehicles (under 5 tons).

They represent some 315 named (and/or generic) Transformers.

I have statted an additional 10 non-'Mech AutoMechs that fall into the categories of DropShips and Large Naval Support Vehicles...

I have identified an additional 3 non-'Mech AutoMechs that fall into the category of Mobile Structures...

I am currently 20 entries away from complete write-ups on all the 91 classes, and will likely add the 10 DropShip/Large Naval units as an addendum. Those 10 DropShip/Large Naval units may get the briefest of overviews. I have NO current plans to tackle the Mobile Structures, as they scare the freaking crap out of me.

I've received 52 miniature images that I will try and integrate into the entries once all the principal writing is completed. All but one of the images come from Luciora. (Thanks, Luc!)

The rules and TRO section will get need some extra writing to polish them off. There may be additional line-art from me added to both.

I don't have the talent to produce proper Record Sheets for this project, and honestly would probably not do so if I could because that would add about another 200+ pages to the thing, after including all variants.

My efforts to do this as cheaply as possible means that nobody is getting paid for it, including myself.

I am 50 years old. My cats Kurita, Luna, and Oreo are 12, 2, and 2, respectively.

There are 6 books and 4 sets of glasses on my desk at the moment. From my vantage point, I am surrounded by 75 Transformers toys and 2 starships Enterprise.

I have a lot more Transformers toys and Enterprises than what I see.

There are roughly 365.25 days in a Terrestrial Day...

I may be going number-crazy...

- Herb

[Luciora]

I have more planned hahah

[I am Belch II]

Cant wait for more Automechs.

[Wrangler]

Dear god, this going be good. 

[HABeas2]

Another bit of original art for this project.

Enjoy!

- Herb

[Daryk]

You can draw TOO!  Who knew!?  ???  :D

[HABeas2]

You can draw TOO!  Who knew!?  ???  :D

 ???

Did you miss the other pieces I did for this project and the Tetakuni adventure?

- Herb

[Daryk]

Hence my ":D"...  ^-^

[HABeas2]

Hence my ":D"...  ^-^

Well, I mean, CGL has always rejected my line art and redid them from scratch, so...

- Herb

[Daryk]

Only when they had money to do so... your bar is actually a good one: "You must PAY an artist to exceed this level".   :thumbsup:

[I am Belch II]

Nice artwork.

[HABeas2]

Thanks!

12 AutoMech write-ups to go.

- Herb