BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Game Universe => Clan Chatterweb => Topic started by: Kitsune413 on 11 October 2015, 09:46:29
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Name up for trial of possession.
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Presumptuous Sea Fox! Need I remind you what happened last time? :))
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Wolf Empire: The ilFaction
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Wolf thread: we're going to keep talking about this thing as if it allready happened
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Wolf thread: we're going to keep talking about this thing as if it allready happened
Beats "Wolf Thread: 40% of the posts in here are a falcon complaining"
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Wolf Empire: MechWarrior Marisa for Khan
Wolf Empire: Punched in the face by a Colossal
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Well the pre-trial of possession name isn't so presumptuous. But I'm a Sea Fox. You should compete Deadborder!
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I think I will!
In the meantime, here's another couple
Wolf Empire: Exiles need not apply
Wolf Empire: Kyle Wolf Appreciation Thread
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You should compete Deadborder!
What'd I do to make you hate me so much? ;_; Trying to sell the wolf thread to a Falcon?
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What'd I do to make you hate me so much? ;_; Trying to sell the wolf thread to a Falcon?
Haha. Well I own the thread so I'd never change it to anything derogatory.
But it sets a precedent for the title of falcon thread if anybody ever wrote there.
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But it sets a precedent for the title of falcon thread if anybody ever wrote there.
Guess you have not been on there recently merchant?
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Guess you have not been on there recently merchant?
The battletech forums exist only to dispute the production status of the Mad Cat and to hate eachother over LAM's.
Occasionally it exists as an advertising tool for new products. Why would anyone ever talk about the Jade Falcons? (don't answer that! This is the wolf thread!)
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Why would anyone ever talk about the Jade Falcons?
So we can make sure the kill markers on the side of our Mechs look correct.
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Beats "Wolf Thread: 40% of the posts in here are a falcon complaining"
Better way of saying it:
"The Wolf Empire Thread: The Falcons Mess In Here Too"
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Beats "Wolf Thread: 40% of the posts in here are a falcon complaining"
Better or worse than the "woe is Clan Wolf under Vlad" songs sung in the past?
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There's an idea for another one:
"Wolf Empire: Not even Vlad could mess this up (well, maybe)"
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How about "The Wolf Empire: At Least We're Not Mongols"?
Or "The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone"?
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Or "The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone"?
I like this one! ;D
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Wolf Empire: Trueborn Incest at Its Best
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Wolf Empire: Like Amaris but with orange dog faces
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Wolf Empire: No Sense Of Humour
Wolf Empire: Thread Titles as a form of Overcompensation
Wolf Empire: Now with less lapdog
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Well, The dice were with Kitsune, you're safe from the title "Wolf Empire: No Falcons Allowed Club"
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Wolf Empire: Nothing We Own Is Jade
Wolf Empire: Our Old Thread Can Go To The Horses!
Wolf Empire: AutoCanon/2 ;D
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Wolf Empire: Flea treatments required before landing on Terra
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Ouch! Good one.
OK...
Wolf Empire: Dog Returns To Vomit
:D
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Well, The dice were with Kitsune, you're safe from the title "Wolf Empire: No Falcons Allowed Club"
How do you guys feel about Nascar Advertisements on your mechs? <3
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Except, of course, Canoncically, Devlin Stone remains unbeaten as yet.
So for all you know, things could end with his Atlas II smooshing Alaric under its foot. Which would be hillarious, mind...
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Except, of course, Canoncically, Devlin Stone remains unbeaten as yet.
So for all you know, things could end with his Atlas II smooshing Alaric under its foot. Which would be hillarious, mind...
Canonically? Maybe not.
But at the gaming table it is true enough! Savage Wolves for everybody! Pay up! Woo. *Confetti Cannons*
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Hey, I'd buy a Mad Cat Mk IV regardless.
Meanwhile, Alaric going squish remains a just as viable (and still hillarious) option. Allways cloudy, the future is (until it's written down and released). Or, for that matter, the invasion of Fortress Republic being an utter fasilure that leads to the destruction of all things Wolf. We can but wait and see.
Meanwhile, have you considered a Vulture Mk IV upgrade incentive package?
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We haven't been able to figure out how to make a vulture mk Iv, despite its name, resemble a bird!
Anyways. It's important to remember the whole thing is in good fun. I think clan players should trial each other over silly things. But we don't want to actually belittle anyone or leave any hard feelings.
At the end of the day the us versus them is always battle tech players and non battle tech players.
So everybody have fun...
And buy a savage wolf.
http://ironwindmetals.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=8517
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Sooo... What's the source of the Wolves as ilclan / fall of the RotS chatter?
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There is nothing on the Wolves becoming the IlClan, but there will be an IlClan and the Republic will fall - it seems:
ilClan
The ilClan is a campaign-driven overview of the universe-spanning conflict that will see the fall of The Republic of the Sphere and the final conclusion of the Dark Age era. The founding of the ilClan heralds the start of a new age for the BattleTech universe—one that will forever transform the Inner Sphere and Clans alike!
http://bg.battletech.com/books/upcoming-releases/
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Ah shoot. So Mad Malvina could still swing it...
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Pretty much. It's a lot of baseless speculation and wishful thinking on the part of the Wolf players; acting as if it was a given or had allready happened or the like.
Right now, it could be anything. With Ben Rome writing and Catalysts habit of surprising outcomes, I'd take nothing for granted
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Well, there was also that canon event at GenCon a few years back that featured the Wolves fighting the Republic in Unity City, during which Alaric and Devlin dueled and Alaric won. However, my recollection is that CGL has since walked it back somewhat and said its canonicity is somewhat hazy.
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I will laugh my arse off if ilClan doesn't result in the "we assured ourselves this would happen two years ago" Wolf victory
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Sooo... What's the source of the Wolves as ilclan / fall of the RotS chatter?
Fanboi-ism O:-)
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Ah shoot. So Mad Malvina could still swing it...
Eh. The consensus from Clan Sea Fox players is that becoming Ilclan is the worst thing that could happen to you.
So a year or two ago there was a book outline for april fools outlined by Ben Rome where Clan Wolf became Ilclan... and had a bunch of stuff in it that was my worst nightmare.
Also Gencon's description for their battletech event gave up the ghost and said that Devlin Stone and Alaric were going to duke it out for Terra.
Since then we've learned that the Republic Walls have come down.
It is possible and my suspicion is that the Gencon announcement was a gaffe and wasn't supposed to be released so early. Though it could also have been exactly what they wanted. If it was a gaffe then it could have required a re-write on the future story. On the other hand the Lead Product Designer has changed since then. With Herb stepping down. And that is after the 'Future of Battletech' post that threw everybody into a wild panic. (http://bg.battletech.com/news/battleblog/what-the-future-holds/ a quick recap if you would like to panic!!!!!) So it is hard to know if the previous plans are still the future plans.
More fun. (https://benhrome.wordpress.com/2013/04/01/ilclan-and-beyond/) and finally the outline (https://benhrome.wordpress.com/2014/04/01/the-supremacy-rises/)
So what evidence I don't have is the sidebar at Gencon talking about the event. But other than that. You now know everything that we know.
So what is happening in the thread?
There is a lot of anecdotal evidence that, unless they changed things, which is incredibly possible, Clan Wolf will invade Terra. If I remember correctly events had already been written so the outcome of the battle at Gencon wasn't supposed to change much. Maybe names. But it has been a long time between then and now.
What do you need to know?
You're a Clan Wolf fan. Who knows how many years that you've liked Clan Wolf. You've got a pretty big emotional investment in seeing them be the big winners. Clan Jade Falcon has been the loyal opposition for years. They've got a pretty big emotional investment in seeing Clan Wolf not be the big winners.
So the important thing is to remember that even though we're all fake enemies here that the other sides got real people too and everyones feelings are equally important. So fake fight on. But don't get to wrapped up in it.
Good luck on Terra. Bring a Savage Wolf.
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Good luck on Terra. Bring a Savage Wolf.
But not just any Savage Wolf. The battle at Unity City demands nothing less than one of our new limited-edition Savage Wolves, entirely electroplated in now extremely rare Gibson gold! And the prices of our advanced, high-quality XXL engine have never been lower! There's never been a better time to buy!
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Amen. I wouldn't want the Falcons to get too badly beat up, or where's the fun!
Now the peace-mongering republicans of the sphere... They need squashing under my savage wolf's electroplated-in-Gibson-gold heel
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As a Wolf Exiles fan I definitely shouldn't think that but...
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Now the peace-mongering republicans of the sphere... They need squashing under my savage wolf's electroplated-in-Gibson-gold heel
;D
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so how was the trip to terra? by the way I "aquired" one of your warwolfs in my ghostbears cluster. rather snazzy ride.
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so how was the trip to terra? by the way I "aquired" one of your warwolfs in my ghostbears cluster. rather snazzy ride.
We don't know yet.. :(
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Eh. The consensus from Clan Sea Fox players is that becoming Ilclan is the worst thing that could happen to you.
As a Sea Fox fan (I still am), I have to say I prefer to think of it as our time-honored strategy of letting other Clans do the brutal work of opening up new markets for trade with our Clan (markets who also thirst for high-ticket war machines that we specialize in). This is something we have been happily doing since 3050, and I see no change in it.
As for this ilClan nonsense, I would specify for myself: Once the hard work is done, it's going to be much easier for the next Clan to attempt to wrest the title of ilClan after a hollow victory on Terra. The head that wears the crown gets no rest in this game that the Clans are playing. They have to contend with each other, but also with the Great Houses, who surround them and will be watching.
Slow Rollers often slow-roll their selves, after all. To bring in another gaming analogy.
I don't know if the leaders of any of the Clans are smart enough to achieve their own originally stated victory conditions for ilClan and still survive the relentless march of time and the tidal-like cycles of war and peace in the IS.
But there will be BattleTech, that's for sure. No matter the outcome.
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Are there any Wolves in here or is this a kick the Wolves page.Its fun listening to the comments though [watch]
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Yes.
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Sooo... What's the source of the Wolves as ilclan / fall of the RotS chatter?
The Case for ilClan Wolf.
(1) Position - Clan Wolf's new empire is aimed right at the heart of the republic. They're closer, and their troops are positioned for combat against that foe. The falcons are almost as close, but not quite.
(2) Probability - The Wolves are in one of the better states to conquer in such a fashion. The Falcons lost the Horses, and now have to contend with them on one front, the Lyrans on another, and if they misstep they might have to worry about the bears as well. The horses are too far away, and too bloodied from their unfortunate alliance with the Falcons. I expect their focus is on rebuilding and capitalizing on their gains within the former Wolf OZ. The Sea Foxes aren't poised to take it, and they're happy doing what they're doing already, selling guns to anybody who wants em. The Bears are already cozied up with the FRR, and I expect we'd see them bulking up if they intended to do more than homestead with their FRR buddies. The Exile Wolves seem to be occupied with the task of "not dying to the falcons" and the Nova Cats seem to be busy "being dead at the hands of the dragon." The Spirit Cats who survive are in a similar position as the Exile Wolves, surviving rather than dominating. Clan Wolf, meanwhile has quite a bit of conquest momentum, the potential means to invade earth once the fortress is solved, and the desire to.
(3) Meta Knowlege: 2013's Gencon Battle was CWF v.s. ROTS on Terra Itsself with a side-battle between Alaric's own forces and Stone's own. - The Wolves Won. No guaranteee of a wolf /victory/ on terra but a pretty good sign that there will be a wolf/republic fight on the soil of humanity's homeworld. Ultimately these battles are not binding in any fashion, but that such a battle ever occurred in the first place seems indicative of TPTB's Likely direction. Further evidence in favor is that 2014's Gencon Diorama showed Clan Wolf taking Unity City. Again, not a guarantee, but I've never heard of them comissioning a diorama for an event that didn't/won't happen.
(4) Meta Knowlege: the "Free Taiw... St Ives" April Fools Day PDF - AFD PDFs have foreshadowed things before. the Project Omega AFD PDF showed us a Superheavy mech (which we eventually got in the form of the omega), foreshadowed Marthe Pryde's death, and if one believes the potential WoB/Wolverine correlation, it hints at that as well. So, we have here a PDF that shows us a future ruled by a Third Star League, ruled by "Clan Wolfhound." The whole document seems to possibly hint at a Wolf-Led Third Star League.
(5) Winson - There is a mystery around Jennifer Winson's true identity. There is a fair degree of likelyhood as hinted at in some of the historical documents we've seen lately that she is a Cameron, or a Cameron-Amaris. The wolves retain her legacy. This would be the means to reboot the ruling line via the breeding program. This is something only the Wolves, Wolves in Exile and Coyotes would be fully in the know and capable of.
(6) Meta-Historical - The Republic has a Roman thing going. Alaric's Historical Namesake sacked Rome.
(7) Mobile Assets - Clan Wolf recently relocated their best manufacturing capacity, and their best scientific and engineering personnel and its possible they could uproot those mobile factories and relocate them to Terra.
(8) I don't have it handy, but in one of the star league era sourcebooks, someone, I believe a cameron had a quote about "dark days when wolves stalk terra" which I think is intended as forshadowing.
I will laugh my arse off if ilClan doesn't result in the "we assured ourselves this would happen two years ago" Wolf victory
and I promise that if you don't stop clogging up the wolf thread with this sort of thing, that when the wolves DO take terra, you will never hear the end of it. We get it. You don't think it's likely. That's swell, but some of us do think it is and we'd like to discuss it without you butting in. Please stop.
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I figured that I'd never hear the end of it anyway, especially given that you've been endlessly braying about it for two years now as if it had allready happened.
But here's the thing. My posting suggestions that the Wolves could be defeated or that Alaric could be squished by a Giant Konkerdong or whatever else are just as legitimate and just as valid content for this thread as anything else. I have just as much rigt to post in this thread and voice my opinions in this thread as anyone else.
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Tukayyid 2.0. Fight for earth on earth. Stone versus Alaric.
Sea Fox Clarke versus computer replica of Lear.
Malvina versus Tucker Harwell. Cage Match!
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If you're here to taunt the Wolf fans, get out of the thread please. Discussion is one thing, trolling is another. We're not quite over that line yet, but let's not get there.
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Seriously, though; my intent has never been to deliberately troll or harass. I am just here to discuss and and offer alternative opinions or viewpoints. I have never attacked anyone else, and I have never intended to taunt or provoke a response.
My only aim here is to discuss and have fun.
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But here's the thing. My posting suggestions that the Wolves could be defeated or that Alaric could be squished by a Giant Konkerdong or whatever else are just as legitimate and just as valid content for this thread as anything else. I have just as much right to post in this thread and voice my opinions in this thread as anyone else.
Isn't that kind of the ultimate concession, though? You're saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not literally against the rules to express it.
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I get it. If I was a falcon fan and the opposition was going to Win I'd be around to tell them that at least it hasn't happened yet.
But maybe that's a discussion for a "Clan Wolf Ilclan' thread. They definitely don't need their thunder stolen in their own thread. I'm sure the Falcons will be crowing about whatever happened to the exiles soon and you don't want wolf fans coming to the falcon thread to tell you to stop.
Also, Hellbie's warning totally dropped after one of the funniest things I've said on these forums in awhile. Talk about stealing thunder.
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Hmm. In that outline Arc Royal also falls. Clan Wolf in Exile relocates to Mellisia...
Hmmm...... (But to the Hell's Horses)
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It would be difficult for them to relocate to Melissia these days, given that it's in the Falcon OZ.
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It would be difficult for them to relocate to Melissia these days, given that it's in the Falcon OZ.
The Exiles realised a bit too late that their plan did have one key flaw.
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I just wanted to say, as someone who doesn't really have a dog in this fight (pun most definitely intended), I think that is indeed worth discussing the possible non-ilClan plot directions the Wolf Empire could take. While as a neutral observer I think the Wolves ending up ilClan is highly likely (mostly for the reasons Steve previously outlined), I don't think it is by any means guaranteed, and alternative outcomes should be explored and discussed. That being said, making constant cracks about Alaric getting squished does absolutely nothing to move us closer to that conversation.
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I've still yet to have a satisfying discussion on how the wolves might achieve ilClanship that hasn't morphed into whether or not it WILL happen, and I'd still love to chat about that sometime, but yeah, I'm amenable to discussing other directions it could go.
From a meta-perspective, it'd be kindof dull if they just sat idle. They'd have traded an occupation zone surrounded on all sides and beset by asymmetric attack by foes, for a larger empire, surrounded on all sides and beset by asymmetric aggressions by some of the same foes and a few new ones. Just holding the line against the republic and the others means that for all they've moved locations, they'll just be treading water and have essentially done nothing, despite moving.
Probably won't be to move to against the Clan Protectorate, not with the sea foxes captaining that. Might growl back in that direction, if the raids we've been hearing up get too frequent, but I don't think they're going to move to absorb or annhilate it. And they just ended aggressions with the FWL.
If they don't head for Terra, I guess the most likely outcome is moving on the Falcons. Malvina is too large a threat to be ignored if their attention isn't on the center of the sphere.
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I know the popular belief is that Alaric's claim to the Archonship of the Lyran Commonwealth is purely a political ploy, but given that the Commonwealth seems to be teetering on the edge of the abyss, perhaps the Wolves will complete the defenestration of House Steiner and Alaric will plant his furry butt on the throne for good.
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I doubt he can get them to recognize his right, but ultimately, even if he does, doesn't that just mean they're back against the falcons later, rather than sooner?
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To be honest, the title of the thread is a little... incendiary. Not trying to cause trouble, just saying.
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Sadly, I lost the naming rights trial this time. Title's out of my hands.
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To be honest, the title of the thread is a little... incendiary. Not trying to cause trouble, just saying.
It was about the only thread title that received approval from the mainstream wolf fans (I am a wolf fan. But I am a Sea Fox.) Any thread title will do. Sea Fox possession rights just mean if we can insert a cute non offensive advertisement we will.
On the other hand, at the Gencon event their Khan did beat Devlin Stone in a savage wolf... and it hasn't really changed your actions Deadborder. You are upset that the Wolves think they may become Ilclan despite the evidence that they may become Ilclan.
I think we need to take a look at the fact that this is just a game and if a group of fans want to be proud that they accomplished, or may accomplish something we need to leave it be.
If they were in the falcon thread telling you that Malina hadn't accomplished some thing it would obviously he unacceptable behavior.
I am willing to change the title of the thread. If you want to make the argument that it's inflammatory for a Republic player then I could see it be an issue. If False Son was upset it would be totally understandable.
But if a Falcon Player is upset that the Wolves might become Ilclan then it is unhealthy behavior. We are one community on the battle tech forum. We aren't wolf fans and falcon fans. We are battle tech fans and we really, really don't need anything more than friendly rivalries.
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Yep buy Savage Wolves and bash Alaric around the head with one.
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Open for thread title suggestions. Rules: No Wolf teasing. No negative suggestions. That was never the point. We are adults. We CAN have fun without hurting other people's feelings.
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I know the popular belief is that Alaric's claim to the Archonship of the Lyran Commonwealth is purely a political ploy, but given that the Commonwealth seems to be teetering on the edge of the abyss, perhaps the Wolves will complete the defenestration of House Steiner and Alaric will plant his furry butt on the throne for good.
Since Alaric technically has claims to both the Elsie and FedRat halves of the sundered FedCom, my 2-bit tin-foil hat theory is that Alaric turns Terra over to Anastasia Kerensky and some Cameron leader bred off-stage from Exile Winson stock, he keeps going with Terra's resources now behind him, and he conquers what is left of FedSuns after the Cappies and Snakes have had their way with it. At some point, a good portion of the Lyran map also gets consolidated under Alaric's paw, most of the competing Davion and Steiner lines are wiped out (accidentally or by order), and krazy Katherine has her revenge -- it's her line that sits on the two FedCom thrones for some generations to come.
The fly in this theory is that Victor S-D renounced any claim to the throne for his children. But I'm not sure a vatborn kid bred without Vic's knowledge counts as his child, and Alaric and his Wolves won't care either way.
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To be honest, the title of the thread is a little... incendiary.
Incendiary would be "Wolf Empire: We Promise Not to Drop Warships on Our Allies".
The current thread title is just factual (at least in one GenCon tournament version of the universe), except where it pokes fun at the Wolf Clan with its humorous overselling of the Savage Wolf.
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The current thread title is just factual (at least in one GenCon tournament version of the universe), except where it pokes fun at the Wolf Clan with its humorous overselling of the Savage Wolf.
Is the savage wolf bad? I'm not a huge fan of the rear mounted weapons in the prime, but it does have dual ERPPCs and ferro-lamellor..
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Is the savage wolf bad? I'm not a huge fan of the rear mounted weapons in the prime, but it does have dual ERPPCs and ferro-lamellor..
The main issue is with the engine.
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Is the savage wolf bad? I'm not a huge fan of the rear mounted weapons in the prime, but it does have dual ERPPCs and ferro-lamellor..
The Savage Wolf is amazing.
The problem is that the Savage Wolf isn't as amazing as the Mad Cat. So where the Mad Cat is the most optimized 75 ton mech in the game, the Savage Wolf... isn't.
It has Ferro-Lamellar armor, which is nice. But it has too many engine crit boxes and because of the way XXL engines create heat it becomes heat inefficient.
So in a fight against the original Timber Wolf it's got about a 45% chance to win.
The Timber Wolf isn't supposed to be in production anymore but because of a throw away line in one of the products its still kind of hanging on for dear life.
Alaric Wolf and Anastasia Kerensky pilot a Savage Wolf so its pretty popular in Clan Wolf.
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The Salvage Wolf is a sea fox plot to sell maintenance contracts. It's got this fancy tech on it, but mostly winds up being no more durable or long-lasting for it. Winds up being a warmer-than-average timber wolf at the end of the day.
The Wolf Mech you wanna use with FerroLam armor, is the Orion C. We don't even have official stats for it yet and STILL I feel confident in saying this. I've approximated it from the TRO3150 text about it, and I love it already. The Mad Dog IV isn't bad for Ferrolam either. Atleast so long as its pilot doesn't try something like using the prime's LBX pellets against another FL armored mech. ;)
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The Salvage Wolf is a sea fox plot to sell maintenance contracts. It's got this fancy tech on it, but mostly winds up being no more durable or long-lasting for it. Winds up being a warmer-than-average timber wolf at the end of the day.
The Wolf Mech you wanna use with FerroLam armor, is the Orion C. We don't even have official stats for it yet and STILL I feel confident in saying this. I've approximated it from the TRO3150 text about it, and I love it already. The Mad Dog IV isn't bad for Ferrolam either. Atleast so long as its pilot doesn't try something like using the prime's LBX pellets against another FL armored mech. ;)
The Orion C is some kind of monster. Thrashed my poor Vulture. Need a rematch on that one. The real answer of a Ferro-lam trooper that is great is the Vulture IV though. tough little guy. great trooper. The Savage Wolf is a long range fire support mech now.
What is a good buy is the Bunker II I mean, Mad Cat II with ferro-lam. I parked it in some tree's because that's as good of a defense modifier as it was going to get and it went to work.
Wendigo's are also great products. I'm very impressed.
Steve even told me those LB-x pellets weren't doing anything but I took such a long break from Battletech I kept sanding away. Actually when I realized that the Orion IIC had Ferro-lamellar armor I was in bad shape. The SRM + LBX Vulture couldn't hurt it. I hope there are more Vulture IV canon configs in the pipe soon.
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booo Salvage wolfs. The only thing savage about them is the explosion they make when you take out a side torso ;)
If your having troubles against the Orion C,just do what i do...Punch it in the mouth with a Karhu.
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I'm also a Republic fan and player. They're my favourite IS faction. So yeah, I'd say that counts.
I've got about a 90% win rate of Mad Cat Mk IVs vs Mad Cats. The few times the original Mad Cat won usually came about due to something like a massive headshot that's pretty much in the "this could happen to anyone" category. True, my very first victory for the Cat IV also fell under the "ER PPC to the Face" rule, but the point stands.
The FL armour makes a world of difference. You're immune to LBX clusters, you halve the effect of SRMs, you turn 10-point headshooters with the risk of a crit into 8-point "not quite" hits which is a massive improvement.
And hey, you can thank Vlad for the Mad Cat's near death. He's the Sea Foxes greatest hero!
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Its fun watching this.Is there just two Wolves in this thread.We usually have a roll call by now?
Kitsune413 are we going to have a roll call for the Wolves.?Just curious [watch]
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It's a new thread so maybe it doesn't show up on updated threads. Revival trials came out and then thr Widowmaker sourcebook came out not to long ago but for anybody interested in new battletech or Ilclan it's been two years since the story has gone anywhere.
3150 has some snippets and that generated some new posts in each thread. But most people have already seen the mechs.
Handbook House Kurita came out this year but everything else is an XTRO or a turning point.
The good news is that they really seem to have everything in order now and the new harebrained schemes game might be a good cross promotional product. So the bright side is that everything may get better soon. But the negative side is that people haven't had a lot to get excited about.
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It shows up alright.
I'm a Wolf fan, by virtue of being an Ulric Kerensky fan. Just to be clear.
But I like the Jade Falcons too. I see both sides of the debate, mostly. Malvina has me wondering, but at least she's bringing excitement to the universe in her own special atrocious way.
But now we have the Wolves led by the B. Son of Every Clanner* and Spheroid Nightmare come to life and power. It's attractive plot... but I wonder what's the catch? Is this how the IlClan struggle begins? I guess so. If what we think we know is even half correct.
*Not the Homies.
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I like the Falcons Emblem and I like the Falcons mechs. Summoners, thors and Kit Foxes are adorable. I don't care for their bird totem mech. But they just aren't liberal enough for me. Which put Clan Wolf in the lead by a mile for me.
But I've used the name Kitsune for far more than the majority of my life so I have a fox totem spirit. But by the time of the Jihad the Diamond Sharks were already becoming impossible to ignore.
I like the Falcons. I pretty much like all of the remaining clans and there were only some home clans I didn't like before. The Falcons don't chew on their own spent bullet casings as much as the Smoke Jaguars did though. So for me the crazy conservative clan of choice are those dead guys.
Anyways. This isn't the, "What do Sea Foxes think of other clans?" Thread. This is the Wolf Thread.
The title is up for consideration. Gotta get the Wolves and the Sea Fox PR guys in on it.
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It's attractive plot... but I wonder what's the catch?
Perhaps the assumption that the ilClanship is as simple as it has been professed? You really think all the Clans are going to fall in lock step just because Alaric takes Terra?
Assuming that he does...
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Perhaps the assumption that the ilClanship is as simple as it has been professed? You really think all the Clans are going to fall in lock step just because Alaric takes Terra?
Assuming that he does...
I do. Wait? Is it 3052? No. Nevermind.
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I'm a Wolf fan, by virtue of being an Ulric Kerensky fan. Just to be clear
Yeah. Ulric is my favorite magnificent bastard in the series. Well. And Focht. Those two are a Dustin Hoffman and Gene Hackman movie.
But I like the Jade Falcons too. I see both sides of the debate, mostly. Malvina has me wondering, but at least she's bringing excitement to the universe in her own special atrocious way.
Malvina versus Tucker Harwell in the cage!!! Tune in 3155!
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Perhaps the assumption that the ilClanship is as simple as it has been professed? You really think all the Clans are going to fall in lock step just because Alaric takes Terra?
Assuming that he does...
Not in the slightest!
All I expect it will mean is "This Clan has Conquered Terra, and gets the bragging rights of having conquered Terra."
I don't expect the other clans to do anything other than for one to try and dispute their claim immediately after. I don't think it means they're king of the clans and get to start bossing the others around, I don't think it'll mean the fight is over, but I do think that they'll have the biggest baddest bragging rights in all of clandom.
Terra is worth having for virtue of being Terra, not because it magically makes all the other clans listen to you (which would be ridiculous). One look at how little the Council of Six has ever accomplished shows how much it's going to mean as far as commanding other clans (not a damn thing).
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Its fun watching this.Is there just two Wolves in this thread.We usually have a roll call by now?
Kitsune413 are we going to have a roll call for the Wolves.?Just curious [watch]
There are technically three, but none of them send me Founder's Day cards anymore. Cheapskates refuse to cough up postage to the ARDC.
(...and I forgot to leave a forwarding address when we evacuated. #P)
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Actually, I think the title of Ilclan would mean something. I think the Hell’s Horses would fall in line. Probably the Ghost Bears as long as the leader is not totally crazy. And I think the Sea Foxes and Snow Ravens would acknowledge the new Ilkhan – though politically and militarily they’ve both faded to irrelevance.
So I think it comes down to the Jade Falcons and Wolves. Alaric would probably try to assassinate and replace any new Ilkhan, and Malvina would go nuts. Literally only over her dead body – and I don’t see the Bears or Wolves following her. So she would have to straight-up win a war with those clans to enforce her claim.
As painful as it is for me to say, I think, the way the characters have been presented in the novels, that Alaric is the only Ilclan candidate with the vision to rule the IS. He was raised clan, and understands the culture, but sees himself as above the clans. I could see Alaric claiming Ilclan, and then using that position to convince the great houses into acknowledging him as first lord of a new star league. Of course there’s always the possibility of a major plot twist, so who knows…
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Politically and militarily the Sea Foxes and Snow Ravens are Irrelevant?
The Snow Ravens are making territorial gains and if you are waging war in the Inner Sphere you are strengthening Clan Sea Foxes military and political power. I'm not sure if you've been paying attention since 3130... but... everyone is at war.
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Allow me to expand and clarify my remarks. And bear in mind I’m not trying to upset anyone.
I understand that the Sea Foxes are making money. But militarily they are dispersed through the IS to protect their caravans. I don’t see a way for them to seriously help or hinder a claimant to the Ilclan-ship. They aren’t going to bribe their way to the top after all.
Same for the Ravens. They have taken some planets from the FedSuns, but being so isolated from the rest of the clans, they are more likely to be one of the periphery nations conquered in the next reunification war than having any influence over the Ilclan-ship or next Star League.
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The Sea Foxes are already stated as assisting the Wolves, not through military might, but supplying them mechs. And really, that's the best thing they can do to help them. It wouldn't really count for bragging rights if the Wolves didn't take Terra themselves. If they acknowlege the Wolves as ilClan (which I suspect they would at least consider, if they could see some advantage in it(such as getting some Terran Real-estate)) I still don't see it being a "we become totally subservient" thing.
OTOH, if we read the April Fools Day ilClan Outline non-literally, it could foreshadow the Sea Foxes becoming the mercantile branch of the ilClan's Third Star League.
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Yeah. What a terrible way for a clan to die.
As far as becoming Ilclan is concerned Alaric is the one who put that in everyones head to begin with as a ruse to move Clan Wolf to the Wolf Empire. But now that everybody has pressed within jumping distance how would Clan Sea Fox become Ilclan? We would take our fleets and go there. Whether it is likely that we would or not is another story. But Clan Sea Fox can pretty easily land it's clusters on Terra. All of our clusters are in everyone else's territory anyways.
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I understand that the Sea Foxes are making money. But militarily they are dispersed through the IS to protect their caravans. I don’t see a way for them to seriously help or hinder a claimant to the Ilclan-ship. They aren’t going to bribe their way to the top after all.
Same for the Ravens. They have taken some planets from the FedSuns, but being so isolated from the rest of the clans, they are more likely to be one of the periphery nations conquered in the next reunification war than having any influence over the Ilclan-ship or next Star League.
Between the Foxes' arcships and the Ravens' warships, I'd be surprised if they don't both play a significant role in bringing the ilClan to power. Mobile military manufacturing would be a great asset for upping the pace of and sustaining an invasion. And the importance of the only substantial warship fleet left outside the Clan Homeworlds can't be underestimated.
We know Anastasia has worked at least one Khanate -- some of the others almost certainly for sale. And the Ravens would probably welcome a alliance that grants them access to the kinds of resources they have to scrounge for in the Outworlds.
From Alaric's perspective, I'd argue that the Foxes and Ravens are the most important and most likely Clans the Wolves would cooperate with to take the Republic and Terra (if that's how the ilClan comes about). The Horses can always be sicced on the Falcons to keep the Wolves' traditional enemies sidelined, and the Bears just have to not be angered to keep them inward-looking.
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Perhaps the assumption that the ilClanship is as simple as it has been professed? You really think all the Clans are going to fall in lock step just because Alaric takes Terra?
Assuming that he does...
Really?
The IlClan premise is rather straight forward like that, and I have no other information to lead me to think that PeaceTech was going to break out on Terra after Alaric Ward Steiner Davion claims suzerainty over the other Clans, as indicated by the "IlKhan for life" part of the IlClan in-universe concept.
And I so have been looking forward to the struggle to come.
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Walked the niece to school. Walking is good for me and my thoughts, I think I mentioned that somewhere... ;D
Alaric Ward may not come to Terra thinking of claiming the mantle of the IlClan for his Wolves. But if Malvina decides that that must be what he's going to do, then it does not matter. The IlClan struggle is on because it only takes one unhinged person to want to control everything to make everyone's life a living hell through war.
This is just one possible example.
All I'm saying is I don't think the IlClanship is going to be just a race towards Terra. It will be the greed and ambition of human beings that throw everyone else into war due to the laws of competition and instable personalities who hold power.
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All I'm saying is I don't think the IlClanship is going to be just a race towards Terra. It will be the greed and ambition of human beings that throw everyone else into war due to the laws of competition and instable personalities who hold power.
Just saying, being proud of a victory that has yet to be detailed is getting ahead of yourselves, Wolves. Things might not turn out as glamorous as some people might believe.
Now every one try not to get swept out to sea on my vague wave.
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Just saying, being proud of a victory that has yet to be detailed is getting ahead of yourselves, Wolves. Things might not turn out as glamorous as some people might believe.
Now every one try not to get swept out to sea on my vague wave.
Here's the thing. We've been left hanging on the edge of a narrative cliff for years now. It's been ages since the last big plot book came out. The flesh has been stripped from the bones, the bones have been cracked for their marrow, and we're left hungry. Speculation is about all anyone following the most current plot has at this point.
If I comment that "Wow, the Orion IIc is a 9 on the republic RAT in Capellan Crusades" it'll dissolve into an argument over how seriously one is supposed to take the RATs, rather than pursuing the more interesting tangent of "wtf is the republic doing with that many Orion IIcs when they've been a prestige-only ride in the wolves for ages." If I try and speculate on what the road to, and conquest of Terra might be like, it dissolves into arguments over whether the plot is even headed that direction or not, or whether it'll be glorious (and I'd argue that even if it leads to the total destruction of the wolves, that the warriors of the clans who do not fear death can seek no better a fate than dying in pursuit of holy Terra)...
and I'm left wondering, what would you have us do? Sit quietly and discuss nothing, let the thread languish without a peep? navelgaze over eras already in the bag? lament for the thirtieth time that the wolves are missing a good native-built medium omni?
No.
I want to hear what people think it WILL be like, fighting on the way in. What planets between the edge of the empire, and the glorious jewel of Terra will be the hardest to crack, what worthy spoils might await along the way. What do people think the fighting on Terra itsself will be like. Should things go like I'm anticipating, will we be facing both the falcons and the capellan confederation, or will the capellans be happy enough to see the republic shattered, and their ancestral holdings in their hands again?
Will mutual conflict against the CapCon strengthen the peace between an Empire that holds Terra and the Free Worlds League, or will there be strife on all borders?
Frankly, I personally look at the issue of the other clans not as "What other clans can be made to submit, once we take Terra?" but as "What other clans should we allow to join us in pursuit of a Third Star League?" "Who among the sphere clans is even worthy of this honor?" After all, Nicholas Kerensky did not found the clans by sheer force, he built them out of those WILLING to follow his vision.
THAT is the sort of conversation I'd like to see. Well, I'd like to discuss that Orion IIc thing too, but only if it doesn't dissolve into "RATs don't mean anything"
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The biggest part is cognitive dissonance. If you are a Wolf Fan you want to win Ilclan. You want to win.
If you are a Jade Falcon maybe you don't expect to win. It isn't like they have have ever been painted as a winning faction. But you don't want to lose and the Wolves winning Terra is like losing so you don't want that to happen.
If you are one of the two republic fans you don't want the Republic to die. So there is a good reason to not want Wolf players to jump to conclusions.
I remember once after Ben Rome's April fools outline came out someone asked me if Clan Sea Fox becoming the Merchant Caste for the Star Adders wouldn't be a good thing. Because you remember all of those times you deployed on the battlefield as an entirely merchant force in battletech.
People have got to square things in their own heads... and they will redo it once the real facts are out too. I wish the book would just come out soon so we could all fake war eachother. Then go through all of this again for whatever book was after that.
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From coming soon:
IlClan
The ilClan is a campaign-driven overview of the universe-spanning conflict that will see the fall of The Republic of the Sphere and the final conclusion of the Dark Age era. The founding of the ilClan heralds the start of a new age for the BattleTech universe—one that will forever transform the Inner Sphere and Clans alike!
The Republic definitely falls... and the wolves are definitely anecdotally on Terra.
So without the home clans swooping in that kind of leaves it down to three or four suspects.
Tukayyid 2.0! (Hazen vs Harwell! Cage match! Buy a savage wolf!)
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I complete forgot about that line. Hmm...now I wonder who the Republic falls to. Given the authors of the ilClan, my money isn't on one of the Inner Sphere Clans.
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I complete forgot about that line. Hmm...now I wonder who the Republic falls to. Given the authors of the ilClan, my money isn't on one of the Inner Sphere Clans.
We all know that Alaric isn't the only one with a conspicuous origin. Devlin Stone for Ilkhan for life! Clan Wolverine!
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I want to hear what people think it WILL be like, fighting on the way in. What planets between the edge of the empire, and the glorious jewel of Terra will be the hardest to crack, what worthy spoils might await along the way.
Using FM3145 to estimate the number of mechs on each side shows that the Wolves and Republic are either evenly matched or that the Wolves enjoy a large (but not overwhelming) advantage.
The Republic has the following number of mech battalions:
Hastati Sentinels: 7 brigades x 3 mech battalions = 21 mech battalions
Principes Guards: 6 bridades x 2 mech battalions = 12 mech battalions
Triarii Protectors: 5 brigades x 1 mech battalion = 5 mech battalions
Stone's Brigade: 6 brigades x 3 mech battalions = 18 mech battalions
Total Republic = 56 mech battalions
And depending on how many mechs per battalion, the Republic fields ~2000-2500 mechs.
36 mechs per battalion = 2016 mechs total
40 mechs per battalion = 2240 mechs total
40 mechs per battalion plus regimental command companies = 2528 mechs total
The Wolves have 75 clusters, and depending on the average number of mechs per cluster, field 2200-3800 mechs.
75 clusters x 30 mechs per cluster = 2250 mechs total
75 clusters x 45 mechs per cluster = 3375 mechs total
75 clusters x 50 mechs per cluster = 3750 mechs total
So at the lower end of each side's range, the Republic and Wolves are evenly matched (at least in mechs in 3145). But if the Wolves are back to traditional mech numbers in their clusters, they could outnumber the Republic in mechs by almost 2:1.
This is admittedly a gross analysis that doesn't take into account other forces (aerospace, conventional). But it does show that just one of the large Clans (Wolf, Falcon, or Bear) knocking on the Republic's doorstep could take on the Republic by itself, although it could be a hard-fought war. If multiple Clans join, though, it appears that the Republic will fall quickly.
Frankly, I personally look at the issue of the other clans not as "What other clans can be made to submit, once we take Terra?" but as "What other clans should we allow to join us in pursuit of a Third Star League?" "Who among the sphere clans is even worthy of this honor?" After all, Nicholas Kerensky did not found the clans by sheer force, he built them out of those WILLING to follow his vision.
Most Clans have subfactions that could join a drive on Terra for one reason or another. Most of the Horses are probably fed up with Malvina, and there is an element within the Falcons that has tried to depose her. The Bears' Omega Galaxy arguably has an interest in the Republic and a border to secure when Fortress comes down. And Fox Khanates could be bought. Only the Ravens don't have a useful internal division that comes to mind.
Similarly, the Republic could bring some allies to bear, too, like the Northwind Highlanders, the Fidelis, the Remnant, and maybe some FedRat commands.
What do people think the fighting on Terra itsself will be like.
Herb once wrote in a BattleChat that Terra will be depopulated at some point in the BT timeline. The creation of the ilClan could be the precipitating event, which might indicate that the battle for Terra will be devastating. Or it could just mean that native Terrans don't want to live under the ilClan's boot and leave for elsewhere. Or the depopulating event could be the end of the ilClan.
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Using FM3145 to estimate the number of mechs on each side shows that the Wolves and Republic are either evenly matched or that the Wolves enjoy a large (but not overwhelming) advantage.
This is admittedly a gross analysis that doesn't take into account other forces (aerospace, conventional). But it does show that just one of the large Clans (Wolf, Falcon, or Bear) knocking on the Republic's doorstep could take on the Republic by itself, although it could be a hard-fought war. If multiple Clans join, though, it appears that the Republic will fall quickly.
I don't see the bears leaping in, They're happy playing house in Rasalhague from what I can tell. If they wanted Terra still, I think they'd already be there. The Falcons might, but they might also have some Horses to deal with. And by themselves, the horses don't really have an avenue to assault the republic from.
Still, the Republic is going to neCed more than parity to hold the Wolf at bay. The biggest threat to the wolves holdings, other than the RAF itsself, are the Falcons. Meanwhile, the Republic... well basically the only neighbors they have who aren't slavering for their life's blood are the Ghost Bears and the Federated Suns. The Republic has a rough troop parity with the Empire, but the Empire doesn't also have the Combine and Confederation gunning for them. This says to me that the elite of the Empire can be brought to focus on targets while the Republic's defenses are pressed from numerous sides
Most Clans have subfactions that could join a drive on Terra for one reason or another. Most of the Horses are probably fed up with Malvina, and there is an element within the Falcons that has tried to depose her. The Bears' Omega Galaxy arguably has an interest in the Republic and a border to secure when Fortress comes down. And Fox Khanates could be bought. Only the Ravens don't have a useful internal division that comes to mind.
What I was referring to, was less "inviting clans to join the attack on terra" but a matter for after Terra is taken. I do not think any clan is going to want to share the battle for terra. I think it'll be more of a question of who's fighting them for the chance, and will the Capellans be a threat.
Herb once wrote in a BattleChat that Terra will be depopulated at some point in the BT timeline. The creation of the ilClan could be the precipitating event, which might indicate that the battle for Terra will be devastating. Or it could just mean that native Terrans don't want to live under the ilClan's boot and leave for elsewhere. Or the depopulating event could be the end of the ilClan.
Hm. That's unfortunate if true.
Given the authors of the ilClan, my money isn't on one of the Inner Sphere Clans.
then why invest two gencon features in depicting the Wolves on Terra?
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A massive misdirect. }:)
Honestly, I'd be pretty happy to see Terra depopulated. She's been fought over enough. She could use a respite.
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A massive misdirect. }:)
Meh, believe it when I see it. I'd buy one gencon of it, but not two. and not with the like... seven other reasons I listed upthread.
Honestly, I'd be pretty happy to see Terra depopulated. She's been fought over enough. She could use a respite.
It's a wargame. What else are people going to do over a unique objective? join hands around it and sing?
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It's a wargame. What else are people going to do over a unique objective? join hands around it and sing?
I'll sell it to you...
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In the Novels when the Wolf Empire sets up their feint the other clans follow suit to actually prepare to take Terra.
The Ghost Bears and the Falcons are competing.
The Ravens and the Hells Horses are the ones who can't get there without some crazy explanation.
Clan Sea Fox can get there. But do we want to?
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I'll sell it to you...
"Face to face - with the man who sold the world"
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…So at the lower end of each side's range, the Republic and Wolves are evenly matched (at least in mechs in 3145). But if the Wolves are back to traditional mech numbers in their clusters, they could outnumber the Republic in mechs by almost 2:1.
This is admittedly a gross analysis that doesn't take into account other forces (aerospace, conventional). But it does show that just one of the large Clans (Wolf, Falcon, or Bear) knocking on the Republic's doorstep could take on the Republic by itself, although it could be a hard-fought war. If multiple Clans join, though, it appears that the Republic will fall quickly.
Herb once wrote in a BattleChat that Terra will be depopulated at some point in the BT timeline. The creation of the ilClan could be the precipitating event, which might indicate that the battle for Terra will be devastating. Or it could just mean that native Terrans don't want to live under the ilClan's boot and leave for elsewhere. Or the depopulating event could be the end of the ilClan.
But the Wolves won’t bring all their clusters to bear. So in practice, in a one-on-one fight they would probably be at a numerical disadvantage. But the Republic is going to be hit from every direction at once, so it will fight at a huge disadvantage.
As for Terra being depopulated. I’m not sure I understand the fascination CGL has with apocalyptic wars. When I first got into Battletech I just saw Terra as an unimportant neutral planet. Everything important happened elsewhere. I don’t think Terra needs to be glassed to return to that status.
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As for Terra being depopulated. I’m not sure I understand the fascination CGL has with apocalyptic wars. When I first got into Battletech I just saw Terra as an unimportant neutral planet. Everything important happened elsewhere. I don’t think Terra needs to be glassed to return to that status.
Terra *is* a trap. But everyone slowly forgets that dynamic, allowing Terra to feed every few centuries.
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But the Wolves won’t bring all their clusters to bear.
Hard to say. The Wolves have pulled up stakes for greener pastures before, and they could do so again. Once Fortress comes down, the Wolves could abandon their Empire and put all their chits on taking over the Republic and Terra. Especially if they can have access to Fox arcship manufacturing for replacing/resupplying war material.
And even if the Wolves hold onto their current Empire, with the Lyrans on the ropes, the Leaguers fighting each other, and the likelihood that some or all of the Horses will go after the Falcons, the Wolves may not need to leave much behind to garrison their rear border.
I don’t think Terra needs to be glassed to return to that status.
Herb did not explain how or when Terra becomes depopulated or even whether that means just a downturn in the total population or a complete abandonment of the planet. So it doesn't necessarily mean massive WMDs, but that's certainly a possible implication. (And no way to know whether that event is even still part of a future story arc.)
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Doesn't make a lot of sense to help someone be in tactical command of your war tribe. Maybe tlwe would help the Wolves if we could get considerable concessions out of it. But they would have to be quite considerable concessions.
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I hope Clan Wolf sends Merchant Xzibit to negotiate that deal,
"Yo, Clan Sea Fox. I heard you do not want any body to be the boss of you? But how about you give us big boats to conquer the earth so that we can be the boss of you?"
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Again, I doubt Clan Wolf is going to want direct assistance in the martial part of any such campaign to take Terra. If the foxes DO play a role, i bet you it will be a logistical/mercantile one, same as doing business with anyone else.
If you don't conquer it by yourself, you're not the ilClan. There can be only one.
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*sighs* Merchant Factor Xzibit. Come on wolves. I deserve far more laughs than I'm getting over here... should I start trading for them? ;D
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What can I say, it's a sohlama meme ;) Try it on the second-line forces.
I am in the market for some fast medium omnis though...
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You had better win the next trial of possession for naming rights...
If you will excuse me I'm going to go sell some medium omni-mechs in the shape of a bird to clan jade falcon. (They love that. You can sell them anything as long as it's bird shaped.)
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Scratch that. No longer in the market for new medium omnis.
Mmmm. Delicious Skinwalker.
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Is that from the XTRO?
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Is that from the XTRO?
It is. and it is OBSCENE.
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Doesn't make a lot of sense to help someone be in tactical command of your war tribe.
No command assumed, tactical or otherwise. Just a deal to move these Fox arcships into position behind that Wolf invasion force over there and dedicate the bulk of their output to that Wolf invasion force over the next XX months. Do that, and if the Wolf Empire succeeds in toppling the Republic, taking Terra and becoming ilClan, Clan Sea Fox gets the former Republic planets of A, B, C and X, Y, Z. (Or something like that.)
But they would have to be quite considerable concessions.
No doubt.
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Doesn't make any sense. The only reason for Clan Sea Fox to help Clan Wolf is if it seems like Clan Wolf will inevitably succeed at becoming Ilclan and that being Ilclan would have some semblance of power behind it.
In that situation then trying to get concessions to take control of Clan Wolf away makes sense.
But only in that situation. Otherwise it makes sense to try to become Ilclan yourself and actively sabotage Clan Wolves chances of success or just ignore the Ilclan entirely.
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Otherwise it makes sense to try to become Ilclan yourself
I dunno. It's not clear to me that the Foxes are motivated in that direction. They seem to want to make a buck and exercise economic power, not conquer territory and exercise political power.
... just ignore the Ilclan entirely.
The Foxes are opportunistic. They may ignore the ilClan when it suits them, but make deals when advantageous for them.
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The Foxes help anyone as long as they make a profit. It's as simple as that. And the Wolves are winning. Everyone likes to bet on winners.
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Standard divide and conquer means support the second most powerful entity to control the first.
Does that mean that the Foxes would support the stability producing, profit increasing Republic over the disruptive, disrespectful Wolves? Maybe the Falcons to keep the Wolves in check.
There is no reason for a Wolf IlClan to be good for the Foxes.
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All the Wolves want are military hardware and those always make a better profit per shipping volume than sundry goods ordered by the "peaceful" Republic. They'll sell to both sides, but they won't stand in the way of Alaric.
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The Foxes are already selling the Wolves military hardware. The Wolves industry is so stuffed that a XXLed Cheetah is their primary ASF. The Wolves are being bankrolled by the Foxes as it is.
So what is the advantage for the Foxes to get involved further? Heck as IlClan the Wolves would be in a position to do all sorts of bad things from a general consumption tax to cancelation of all debts.
The Foxes are merchants. No one likes them. If any Clan gets full control you can bet on a hardening of attitudes towards deviant behavior like a dominant merchant caste. Controlled chaos suits the Foxes better.
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The Ilclan gets the Ilkhan position permanently. The khan of the Ilclan is the ilkhan. He wouldn't have more power than the ground council, unless it is wartime and then he does.
It doesn't make sense to aid another clan to gain that amount of political power over you unless it looks like they are likely to succeed and you can negotiate semi-autonomy from the aid.
So if Alaric looks like he is going to sack Terra and is willing to take transportation or logistics aid in exchange for promising freedoms to clan sea fox it might be worth the investment...
But in almost, if not all, other situations it makes more sense to sabotage them.
Supporting the jade falcons is bad news because of their policies. But if the Ghost Bears are interested in a bid for Terra and you can get those freedom concessions out of them then send the bears in.
Or sack Terra yourself and just let it go.
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These Wolves are surprisingly quiet about XTRO
Wolf Propoganda Republic III.
Except Steve about that Ryoken. He is going to be insufferable now...
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They have just acknowledged that their warriors need a crutch. Nothing to see here O:-)
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Does that mean that the Foxes would support the stability producing, profit increasing Republic over the disruptive, disrespectful Wolves?
This theory would make sense if the Republic was currently a stabilizing force that undertook commerce with the Foxes. But there's probably been little to no trade with the Republic in the umpety-ump years since the Fortress wall went up, and the Republic has been purposefully destabilizing its neighbors with raids beyond the Fortress wall.
Controlled chaos suits the Foxes better.
Stability? Chaos? Neither? Both?
Probably both. The Foxes need stability somewhere to support production. But they need chaos somewhere else to create customers for their war material.
They'll sell to both sides
That likely is the one truism we can be sure of when it comes to the Foxes.
If the right deal is struck, the prospect of the ilClan taking over Terra and other Republic worlds offers the Foxes access to amounts of raw materials, advanced technologies, and trade pacts that they probably cannot get any other way. At least, that's what I would offer the Foxes in exchange for their arcships at the rear of my invasion, were I in the future ilKhan's shoes.
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These Wolves are surprisingly quiet about XTRO Wolf Propoganda Republic III
The potential implications of the fluff are arguably probably bigger than the designs themselves. The Horses are supplying the Wolves with interface cockpits (or the technology), the Wolves are sharing the Skinwalker with the Ravens, the Foxes appear to be acting as go-betweens, and the Bears and Ravens are gearing up invasion-oriented warship production. It's like the Council of Six finally figured out kindergarten lessons about cooperation.
And unless I missed a passage, the Falcons are conspicuous by their absence.
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Um. It barely says any of that.
It says the Horses trialed DI back in the 3080s. The Wolves had 50 years to notice and aquire it themselves. The Foxes are mentioned because they aquire everything. The Ravens are mentioned because they used to build Storm Crows and the Wolves didn't. It is specifically said later that the Ravens aren't rich enough to exploit DI. Throw an expensive WarShip on top of that and I see some exaggeration there.
The Bears and Ravens are playing their own games as known constructors of WarShips. It is a leap to connect this to the Wolves. Why would the Bears cooperate with the Wolves if the Wolves end game is IlClanship?
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Except Steve about that Ryoken. He is going to be insufferable now...
Ssssh. Just relax and let the skinwalker do its magic. its hideously expensive magic. :D
As for whether the Foxes would want a Wolf ilClan, consider this. The Wolves are known for being fairly hands off with their lower castes. To the point where there were hardly any society sympathisers in their ranks. Now, If SOMEONE stands to take Terra, it's probably not the horses, or ravens. Too distant, geographically. Might be the bears, they do have that obscene new battle bus. But more likely it's going to be the Falcons or the Wolves. The Foxes might be able to mobilize all their fleets and converge, but that sounds high risk, low reward for them.
So, If I was a sea fox, I'd be asking myself do I want a hardline, possibly insane falcon perched upon Terra's seat, Or do I want a Wolf who's probably not going to be all up in my business? Didn't FM3145 indicate some bad blood between falcon and fox?
If the bears enter the fray, I could see them possibly swaying sea fox support, but I think between the foremost contenders, the obvious choice is "Sell to the Wolves"
And if that Empire gets to be too much of a burden, well, there's the Fox-run clan hegemony right next door. Perhaps they're interested in a few planets?
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Clan Sea Fox wants the clans to be a "Normal" in the Inner Sphere. Average Joe Steiner needs to want to buy some Sea Fox Puffs cereal.
Malvina Hazen destabilizes that by ramming warships into planets which is definitely not normal and so is not wanted.
Marketing test groups of Sea Fox Puffs cereal boxes with A cute cartoon animorphic Jade Falcon riding a warship towards a planet sold 500% less well than the standard Sea Fox box.
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I agree that there is no love lost between the Falcons and Foxes especially after Malvina's ascension. In addition, her actions reflect poorly upon the rest of the Clans which in turn hurts the Fox's image and complicates their business ventures.
The Wolves, on the other hand, are the type of customers the Foxes love. Heavily dependent upon Fox products and assistance and willing to make concessions to get what they need. In addition, since the Bear still appears to be sleeping, the Wolves are all that stands between the Falcons causing even more widespread chaos and mayhem to their business interests.
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It says the Horses trialed DI back in the 3080s. The Wolves had 50 years to notice and aquire it themselves.
Eh... The Parash 3 text indicates that getting video of the Parash 3 or DI salvage has been a very rare thing for those 50 (actually 44 if I did the math right) years. And when it did happen, the implications went unnoticed, even by other Clans and the Inner Sphere's best post-Jihad intel orgs in the Republic. Maybe through the fiat of Kerensky, the Wolves got lucky with some video/isorla, and their Watch was also actually on the ball in recognizing the technology's potential. But given the Parash 3 text and the lack of a follow-through DI design by the Horses, it seems somewhat more likely that the Horses made the Wolves aware of the DI technology, probably through their various design/development/manufacturing agreements with the Exiles (Cygnus, Hellstar) and probably after the Wolves abandoned their OZ, and struck a deal.
It's also possible that there is no link between the Parash 3 and Skinwalker. At the end of the Skinwalker text, it states that Stone wants to know where the _Wolves_ got the DI technology, and that the Parash 3 is an unsatisfactory answer. (Or maybe Stone is just getting post-freeze crazier and seeing Blakie conspiracies where there are none.)
The Foxes are mentioned because they aquire everything.
Yeah, the Foxes certainly could have been an intermediary instead of or in addition to the Exiles.
The Ravens are mentioned because they used to build Storm Crows and the Wolves didn't
So did the Horses. (They originated the Stormcrow design.) It doesn't make sense to single out the Ravens over the Horses on Stormcrows if the Ravens are not actually connected to the Skinwalker.
It's also interesting that both of the two remaining Clan users of protomechs in the Inner Sphere get implicated in the Skinwalker's development, which makes sense given the DI technology.
It is specifically said later that the Ravens aren't rich enough to exploit DI.
That motive may also be indicative of deals being struck, i.e., Ravens provide Stormcrow blueprints, parts, caches, or production in exchange for some of the upgraded Skinwalkers because the Ravens lack the resources to integrate the technology on a modified/new design themselves.
It's interesting to compare the spread of DI technology among the Council of Six to the spread of omnimech technology among the original Clans. Some of that diffusion was done via trials of possession or isorla from other trials, but some diffusion was also done in the absence of trials (political or economic deals and outright sharing through alliances).
It is a leap to connect this to the Wolves.
I didn't connect the Lev III to the Wolves. I just said it's like the Council of Six is finally getting its act together. As allies from before they left the Homeworlds and now with a common enemy in the Combine, the Bears and Ravens arguably should have been doing more than joint warship production a long time ago.
Um. It barely says any of that.
I dunno. Like most BT sources, and especially since the Jihad kicked off, XTRO:RIII is written ambiguously. Your perspective depends heavily on what "hints" you want to take as actual foreshadowing versus what "hints" you think are merely red herrings. Time will tell.
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I'm still trying to get my head around the actual benefits of being an IlClan. Lets say the Wolves do it and capture and HOLD terra against the inevitable Republic counter attacks.
Does this mean the rest of the Council of 6 then go "Oh okay, you're the boss, tell us what to do." and they obey, or would Malvina throw a massive hissy fit, the Bears get stroppy, the Ravens miss what was going on and the Horses just ignore it and basically all the Wolves get is bragging rights?
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It could be that something the Council of Six has prepared for. for all we know they've been discussing it over the past 60 years, about what exactly would happen if one of them conquered Terra.
Whether the other Clans would actually live up to that however...
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Eh... The Parash 3 text indicates that getting video of the Parash 3 or DI salvage has been a very rare thing for those 50 (actually 44 if I did the math right) years. And when it did happen, the implications went unnoticed, even by other Clans and the Inner Sphere's best post-Jihad intel orgs in the Republic.
Seriously? The best? I must've missed all the SIS' "intelligence coups" since their founding.
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Seriously? The best? I must've missed all the SIS' "intelligence coups" since their founding.
That's why you missed them.
Seriously though, the SIS's achievements have been largely off-camera due to the fact that most of their operational time hasn't been covered in detail. With that being said, you can look at the fact that they were able to 'disappear' so much Word tech and information, and then secretly redevelop it without anyone else knowing is a good example of what they've been doing.
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They've been dropping the ball since Liao's Operation Golden Fortress, which is exactly since their founding or whatever they were before the SIS became official.
And no, they're not the ones who should get the credit for 'disappearing' the Word tech. The Cappies managed to smuggle the Osprey and Yao Lien for their own use. The "crippled" ComStar and its "no longer existing" ROM one-upped them by discovering the "disappeared" Word info and managed to come up with multiple effective designs and mass-producing them secretly, all the while under the watchful eyes of the RoTS and right in their own territory, just 30 light years away from Terra.
There're a lot of other stuff the SIS sucks at, but suffice to say, they're nothing compared to Word of Blake ROM or WolfNet, not even up there with post-Reform ROM or Successor State intel agency level.
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I'm still trying to get my head around the actual benefits of being an IlClan. Lets say the Wolves do it and capture and HOLD terra against the inevitable Republic counter attacks.
Does this mean the rest of the Council of 6 then go "Oh okay, you're the boss, tell us what to do." and they obey, or would Malvina throw a massive hissy fit, the Bears get stroppy, the Ravens miss what was going on and the Horses just ignore it and basically all the Wolves get is bragging rights?
The Ilclan means you are the leader of the new Star League. The Clans are a collection of warrior tribes and the Ilkhan is their warleader.
If you become Ilclan then you get Ilkhan for life. You aren't supposed to be able to effect the internal affairs of another clan. But during times of war you have a lot of control.
The Inner Sphere Clans haven't had an Ilkhan. Technically Clan Star Adder had the last Ilkhan. But invading and home clans don't talk to eachother.
Theoretically if Alaric can conquer Terra he can then order the other clans to do whatever in a military campaign to rebuild the Star League.
If nobody complains that his genetic material barely has anything to do with the clans. Technically Katherine became a Wolf. But he is the trueborn progeny of two Freeborns who were never in the clans to begin with...
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Normally I would argue that Alaric’s genetic background would result in a legitimacy challenge from the Jade Falcons, but under Malvina, they will have strenuous objections anyway.
As a Jade Falcon, I pretty much understand the Wolves, except for one aspect. Why do the Wolves like to take IS warriors, give them Ward bloodnames, and elevate them to khans? Phelan’s qualification was a bit of a technicality, but understandable. I don’t know why he was so welcomed though. Alaric can’t even claim a technical qualification for the Ward name. And his heritage isn’t a secret anymore. I’m just surprised that no one in the Wolves has a problem with this.
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They do. Conservative elements of the Wolves aren't going to like him getting a Ward Bloodname.
The thing is that he took them from languishing uselessly in a hopeless and surrounded occupation zone to being poised to take Terra. Everyone loves a winner. So despite the faction of clan wolf that will want to see him fail the momentum is behind him and they will do anything to make that mote legitimate.
Phelan was technically a distant relative of the Wards anyways. Also, Ulric, the Khan, then the Ilkhan wanted it to happen. Ulric was also a a winner so the same forces were in motion.
Aiden Pryde pretended to be a freebirth for a long time. But. Winner.
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What can they question about his heritage? While yes, he called Katherine his mother, I'm sure the scientists that cooked him up along with whatever else was part of that Ironborn Sibko took the precautions that Vlad entrusted them with.
It is possible that on his record, Vlad Ward is his fore bearer, since the experiment was his and Katherine's together. Equally it is possible that they fudged the connection between Katherine and the Ward line, or that there was a connection somewhere, which let Alaric be considered part of the Ward Bloodhouse. Worse case scenario, there are a few markers in his genetic code that declare him a Ward, but are just inserted for that specific purpose.
As Alaric openly gave his DNA away to be tested to give credence to his claim as Katherine's son, yet has the dark secret trait and is willing to kill anyone who might be able to reveal he is not descended from a Clan warrior, there probably is some sort of genetic proof that gives him the claim to the Ward bloodname.
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He isn't Katherine and Vlad Ward.
He is Victor SD and Katherine SD.
The clans operate under the idea that the people who left the inner sphere to form the clans were better than the other people in the inner sphere. Then the best of those left the Klondike world's and further found the best of those to create the clans.
So that one of these best of the best of the best would some day return to become the new leader of the star league.
Well what's happened instead is that two of the descendants of the barbarians of the inner sphere who are brother and sister are going to have their child conquer the inner sphere
Alaric Ward has nothing to do with the Clans. He has got Hanse Davion and Victor Steiner Davion blood.
Probably Hanse Davions plan all along...
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Hanse Davion: "Ahh. The descendants of Kerensky are returning. I see possibilities here. Now to fake my own death. Blow up my wife. Coach my Daughter to usurp the Lyran Commonwealth. Deploy my son to stop the clans. Create a fake Star League. Start a civil war to destabilize the inner sphere alliances. Exploit those crazy comstar Blake worshippers to try to destroy the Inner Sphere. Get cosmetic surgery and place myself in a crazy comstar concentration camp. Defeat the comstar crazies, create a star league shaped faction in the middle of the inner sphere FREEZE myself, then have my daughter create an incestuous clone of my son and daughter to conquer Terra and become the Real Star League. Such a simple plan!"
Stone is Hanse.
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Hanse Davion: "Ahh. The descendants of Kerensky are returning. I see possibilities here. Now to fake my own death. Blow up my wife. Coach my Daughter to usurp the Lyran Commonwealth. Deploy my son to stop the clans. Create a fake Star League. Start a civil war to destabilize the inner sphere alliances. Exploit those crazy comstar Blake worshippers to try to destroy the Inner Sphere. Get cosmetic surgery and place myself in a crazy comstar concentration camp. Defeat the comstar crazies, create a star league shaped faction in the middle of the inner sphere FREEZE myself, then have my daughter create an incestuous clone of my son and daughter to conquer Terra and become the Real Star League. Such a simple plan!"
Stone is Hanse.
(http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/21206871/images/1350763603567.jpg)
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Everybody on the forums right now is just thinking, "God how could we have fallen for that cheesy heart attack?"
And, "How do we stop him? It's too late and he is a fictional character. Ilclan had already been written!"
I refuse to believe that this isn't what's really happened and I can't believe we all missed it.
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I'm still trying to get my head around the actual benefits of being an IlClan.
Based on ComStar, Blakie, and Republic experience and insights, it seems that regardless of what the other Clans do, benefits will accrue to the ilClan just by having access to and control over Terra's rich resources, superior technology, and underutilized military manufacturing. (Assuming that Terra doesn't get trashed in the process.) The same is probably true to a lesser degree of other old Hegemony/core worlds.
Does this mean the rest of the Council of 6 then go "Oh okay, you're the boss, tell us what to do." and they obey, or would Malvina throw a massive hissy fit, the Bears get stroppy, the Ravens miss what was going on and the Horses just ignore it and basically all the Wolves get is bragging rights?
Culturally, it's a lot more than bragging rights. Terra and the old Hegemony worlds are the holy land and manifest destiny of Clans' cult of Kerensky and worship of all things Star League. They go to the heart of Clan beliefs and the fundamental purpose of their society. Seeing Clan (Kerensky?, Cameron?) rule on Terra and a Star League resurrected in the Clans' image (however perverted) would be like King Arthur coming back from Avalon to rule at Camelot.
That doesn't mean that there still won't be cynical and opportunistic Clan khans and ristars. But the cultural significance of Terra, the old Hegemony, and the ilClan in the minds of the warriors and other castes may (will?) put brakes on the ambitions of Clan leaders. There may (will?) be only so much these ambitious leaders can do if their warriors see more honor and glory in serving in the ilClan's resurrected SLDF than in fighting in their Clan's latest bid for power. Because of centuries-old beliefs, the very existence of an ilClan holding power on Terra may (will?) bring order to Clan society, and Clan leaders may (will?) have to work within that order rather than constantly challenge it.
Or it may just be one huge, mutual Trial of Annihilation... who knows?
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Haha. God I hope that's the name of the next book after Ilclan, "One huge, mutual, Trial of Annihilation."
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Seriously? The best? I must've missed all the SIS' "intelligence coups" since their founding.
... suffice to say, they're nothing compared to Word of Blake ROM or WolfNet, not even up there with post-Reform ROM or Successor State intel agency level.
I agree that Republic intel is no match for old ComStar ROM, Blakie ROM, or Wolfnet. But I'd contend that the Republic beats out contemporary intel agencies. Post-Jihad ComStar intel couldn't keep the Republic from finding out about the reformed ComGuards, and the entire organization died as a result. Three of the five Successor States are teetering on the brink of defeat and/or dissolution, partly due to intel failures. And no other contemporary state besides the Republic has played such a long, deep, and successful game of deception when it comes to Fortress Republic and the false flag raids being conducted outside the Fortress Wall. On top of all that, most of our FMs and TROs these days are written from a Republic intel viewpoint, and historically these sources are written from the viewpoint of the most omniscient intel agency of the day (old ComStar ROM or WolfNet).
My 2 C-bills... YMMV.
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I'm still trying to get my head around the actual benefits of being an IlClan. Lets say the Wolves do it and capture and HOLD terra against the inevitable Republic counter attacks.
Does this mean the rest of the Council of 6 then go "Oh okay, you're the boss, tell us what to do." and they obey, or would Malvina throw a massive hissy fit, the Bears get stroppy, the Ravens miss what was going on and the Horses just ignore it and basically all the Wolves get is bragging rights?
Don't be so dismissive of "Bragging rights." This is part of why the clans exist. If you take Terra back from the barbarians, no other clan can EVER say they did the same. The Wolves aren't going to look to the other clans and go "Please, will you obey us now?" Hell no. If those other clans are lucky, then MAYBE the Wolves will let them in on building the next hegemony, the next League. IF they ask nicely and prove they're strong enough to deserve inclusion.
Even if they die in the taking, or after, what more fitting soil to soak with clan blood than holy Terra?
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From coming soon:
The Republic definitely falls... and the wolves are definitely anecdotally on Terra.
So without the home clans swooping in that kind of leaves it down to three or four suspects.
Tukayyid 2.0! (Hazen vs Harwell! Cage match! Buy a savage wolf!)
I realize this is the Wolf fan thread, but am I the only one who even considers the possibility that the teaser text in the ilClan sourcebook mentioning the upcoming "fall" of the Republic could be something other than external conquest?
A Republic was afterall "saved" from political and military turmoil before by a charismatic leader named Julius Ceasar. Change his name to "Stone" and his new title to "ilKhan" rather than Emperor and we've got a ready-made template to explain how the rise of an ilClan doesn't have to mean anyone externally imposes a conquest of the Republic and/or Terra.
The ilClan is led by whoever can successfully twist his rivals' arms and get them to squeal "ilKhan!" instead of Uncle. I'm not saying it can't be a Clan that becomes ilClan.. I'm saying it's a fallacy to say it does have to be. Stone becoming ilKhan and his Republic being reorganized as something that takes the name "ilClan" is one such, imo plausible, example.
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I realize this is the Wolf fan thread
You're right. It is. :|
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He isn't Katherine and Vlad Ward.
He is Victor SD and Katherine SD.
The clans operate under the idea that the people who left the inner sphere to form the clans were better than the other people in the inner sphere. Then the best of those left the Klondike world's and further found the best of those to create the clans.
So that one of these best of the best of the best would some day return to become the new leader of the star league.
Well what's happened instead is that two of the descendants of the barbarians of the inner sphere who are brother and sister are going to have their child conquer the inner sphere
Alaric Ward has nothing to do with the Clans. He has got Hanse Davion and Victor Steiner Davion blood.
Probably Hanse Davions plan all along...
-We- know this, but unless something recently came out exposing that, everyone in the Clans do not. They know about Katherine, and the experiment was supposed to be Vlad's, and somehow Alaric was part of the Ward bloodhouse.
Whatever we know means all of jack in universe, so as far as they are concerned right now, Alaric is a Ward who happens to have a geneparent from an adopted Inner Sphere warrior.
If the full secret has been exposed in universe and it is known... well then I suppose success is its own qualifier.
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It probably won't matter. From a meta perspective they need to wrap up the dark age and set the stage for their next timejump/product.
Alaric historically sacked Rome. The original Clan Invasion was a sci-fi spin on Hannibal's invasion of europe.
The odds are pretty strong in favor of Clan Wolf conquering Terra and the collective clans subjugation the Inner Sphere so it can be set up to blow up again.
It might be best if the Ghost Bears won just because the Falcons and wolves have a real rivalry. But I'll be surprised if it doesn't fall on the wolf side.
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A Republic was afterall "saved" from political and military turmoil before by a charismatic leader named Julius Ceasar.
I dunno if Ceasar is the right analogy. Caesar conquered several Gallic tribes, but he did not rule them as one of their own or invite them to live in the old Roman Republic/Empire, as the title of ilKhan would imply. Moreover, Caesar started/won a civil war within the Roman Republic, but there is no civil war (as yet) within the Republic of the Sphere. Everyone is seemingly loyal to Stone.
But later on, the Visigoths were invited to live within the Roman Empire and join its armies. That could be the path to the ilClan -- Stone invites Clan forces into the Republic after Fortress comes down and sics them on invading Cappies and Dracs in exchange for territory. (Stone has allied with Clans before, after all.) But the Clanners eventually turn on Stone and invade Terra like the Visigoths turned on and sacked Rome.
Change his name to "Stone"
The problem with Devlin Stone over the long-term in any of these scenarios is that he is going/has gone nutters from his cryo sleep.
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I dunno if Ceasar is the right analogy.
The analogy wasn't meant to go any further than providing another example of a historical parallel other than Alaric sacking Rome. They do both have their problems.
All I was saying is that while yes, the ilClan blurb does promise that the Republic will "fall".... but "falling" doesn't necessarily mean it must follow that it will be conquered by external forces.
In the face of the Republic's troubles in 3150, Stone might re-birth the Republic in the image of Clan Society... perhaps to appease or retain the loyalty of the Clan warriors already in the RAF. Maybe more like the second coming of Little Nicky rather than Caesar. Going from Republic to ilClan Supremacy would certainly count as "falling" from perspectives sympathetic to the Republic.
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Talking to some foxes on Galatea and Solaris I'd give that a .0000001% chance.
It could happen. Anything can happen.
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To the average Clan mindset, no position is more dominant than Terra. It is the center, as well as the True homeworld. As deadly vulnerable a position it is - beset by rival Clans and bitter foe Great Houses - it calls to the children of those who once wandered so far distant.
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I dunno if Caesar is the right analogy. Caesar conquered several Gallic tribes, but he did not rule them as one of their own or invite them to live in the old Roman Republic/Empire, as the title of ilKhan would imply.
Just as important Caesar was murdered before he could crown himself king, emperor or whatever (if he was going to in the first place).
Moreover, Caesar started/won a civil war within the Roman Republic, but there is no civil war (as yet) within the Republic of the Sphere.
Well there was that short-lived Senate rebellion.
The problem with Devlin Stone over the long-term in any of these scenarios is that he is going/has gone nutters from his cryo sleep.
Did he now? }:) Maybe he (re)gained his sanity and finally realized that it was the rest of the Inner Sphere that was insane and that the only way to cure it was with WAR! >:D
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I agree that Republic intel is no match for old ComStar ROM, Blakie ROM, or Wolfnet. But I'd contend that the Republic beats out contemporary intel agencies. Post-Jihad ComStar intel couldn't keep the Republic from finding out about the reformed ComGuards, and the entire organization died as a result. Three of the five Successor States are teetering on the brink of defeat and/or dissolution, partly due to intel failures. And no other contemporary state besides the Republic has played such a long, deep, and successful game of deception when it comes to Fortress Republic and the false flag raids being conducted outside the Fortress Wall. On top of all that, most of our FMs and TROs these days are written from a Republic intel viewpoint, and historically these sources are written from the viewpoint of the most omniscient intel agency of the day (old ComStar ROM or WolfNet).
My 2 C-bills... YMMV.
I'm guessing most of our current FMs and TROs are written from a Republic perspective because they've always been written by whatever faction that was "True Neutral" or held Terra.
Nah the Successor States that are losing are due more to inept leadership that practically gifted their foes victory. Melissa II tried to do an Honorius on Alaric, Jessica had never been a notable commander, while Caleb and the uncooperative March Lords screwed the Suns over(and before that, Harrison).
If you read the MWDA novels, you'll see that SIS and the Republic in general are riddled with incompetent intel people(except for a few good Ghost Knights). The Successor State agencies managed to achieve a lot in the Republic, Mask paving the way for the CCAF, O5P/ISF for DCMS, LIC/Loki helping Stormhammers a lot, best of all, the weakest CBT agency SAFE managing to plant high-ranking informers/agents in many places without even being detected.
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I agree that Republic intel is no match for old ComStar ROM, Blakie ROM, or Wolfnet. But I'd contend that the Republic beats out contemporary intel agencies. Post-Jihad ComStar intel couldn't keep the Republic from finding out about the reformed ComGuards, and the entire organization died as a result. Three of the five Successor States are teetering on the brink of defeat and/or dissolution, partly due to intel failures. And no other contemporary state besides the Republic has played such a long, deep, and successful game of deception when it comes to Fortress Republic and the false flag raids being conducted outside the Fortress Wall. On top of all that, most of our FMs and TROs these days are written from a Republic intel viewpoint, and historically these sources are written from the viewpoint of the most omniscient intel agency of the day (old ComStar ROM or WolfNet).
My 2 C-bills... YMMV.
Even the Maskirovka which was likely in charge of covering up the buildup of 'Mechs and then later units? The Capellan failures during the Republic era were due more to failure among the leadership than a failure by the Maskirovka.
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May need a new topic for the Republic intelligence conversation. Not on topic for Wolf Ilclan
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Did he now? }:) Maybe he (re)gained his sanity and finally realized that it was the rest of the Inner Sphere that was insane and that the only way to cure it was with WAR! >:D
He is a little freezer burnt when it comes to name drops.
If you read the MWDA novels, you'll see that SIS and the Republic in general are riddled with incompetent intel people(except for a few good Ghost Knights). The Successor State agencies managed to achieve a lot in the Republic, Mask paving the way for the CCAF, O5P/ISF for DCMS, LIC/Loki helping Stormhammers a lot, best of all, the weakest CBT agency SAFE managing to plant high-ranking informers/agents in many places without even being detected.
Pre Blackout the DMI was not on their game. At the least, the AFFS should have shared their findings in the Victoria War. The Capellans had been stashing war material for the Capellan Crusades, and had the Republic been informed (and maybe it was) then perhaps the political log jam of deciding whether or not to treat the Confederation as a threat would not have existed. Them again, after two wars with the Confederation the Republic didn't deem them sufficient enough of a threat.
Post blackout DMI operations have stepped up, at least where Fortress Republic is concerned. But, it is worth noting that there are forces inside the Fortress that have yet to be identified by the DMI acting against the Republic. The raiders that hit the Comstar ruins on Epsilon Eridani, for example were never named.
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May need a new topic for the Republic intelligence conversation. Not on topic for Wolf Ilclan
Nah it's fine. It's gonna run its course soon for both me and Natasha
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So, Wolves, What machines do you see yourself pairing with the Skinwalker?
Buyable from the Sea Foxes are Mad Cat III's and Sun Cobra 2's that should keep up with them in non-TSM movement. Sun Cobra 2's would also be beneficial since we've presumably got a number of Sun Cobras still in service. Similar logistical needs, even if they're faster. Mongrels, if we can get them, would be able to keep up with it's TSM Movement.
From older stock, it'd pair well in a motive sense, with Pouncers, Adders and naturally any Stormcrows we have laying around (which I doubt is many). Linebackers, too.
You could team it with the Wulfen, of course, but that's going to tether the Wulfen to a slower unit, even with the TSM active. I'd almost rather toss it in with Warwolves, and let the Skinwalker be the faster unit in the star.
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May need a new topic for the Republic intelligence conversation. Not on topic for Wolf Ilclan
Nah it's fine. It's gonna run its course soon for both me and Natasha
I'll bow out in favor of more lupine topics.
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So, Wolves, What machines do you see yourself pairing with the Skinwalker?
The Skinwalker's configurations are either snipers (Primary and A), close combat/shock specialists (B), or off-beat TSEMP/physical duellists (C and D).
None of the configurations deliver big hole-punchers (ER PPC, Gauss, heavy large laser), long-range/indirect fire support (LRMs), lots of critting (LB-X, massed SRMs, etc.), E/W (especially ECM), or jump mobility.
So in the absence of knowing my opponent, I'd look for starmates at complementary speeds that can fill those holes with their loadouts or configurations.
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I wonder if a Wendigo can take a skinwalker... that Ferro-lammellar though...
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None of the configurations deliver big hole-punchers (ER PPC, Gauss, heavy large laser), long-range/indirect fire support (LRMs), lots of critting (LB-X, massed SRMs, etc.), E/W (especially ECM), or jump mobility.
Well, not entirely, the B carries a holepunching UAC/20 AND ECM.
You're right though, about the jumping. the crit situation is such that you can't really mount many of those to begin with.
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Well, not entirely, the B carries a holepunching UAC/20 AND ECM.
You're right though, about the jumping. the crit situation is such that you can't really mount many of those to begin with.
The problem with jumping is that with all the tonnage & crits invested in the engine, FL, Endo, & TSM at a max you can jump 6 hexes with standard JJ. There's not enough space to fit more than 4 IJJ, and since it's an Omni a Partial Wing isn't an option.
That said, 5 jump jets will only cost you 2.5 of your 23 tons, so you can still get quite a few good options in there. At this point though, I'd say don't worry about jumping, increase your ground speed with a supercharger to get you up to a max of 14 hexes of movement (I think, I'm pretty sure TSM is calculated before the SC).
For its role, it can work with either a lighter, faster Star as the heavier punch, or as the recon/harasser of a slower, heavier Star.
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So then here's a hypothetical; the Ryoken III as presented in XTRO Republic III is still a prototype/experimental model. The text notes that a production model would likely be different, and we've seen plenty of cases were the change between XTRO and Production models swaps a lot of the tech around. With that being said, what do people think a likely mass production model would look like?
To me, the most obvious answer is to drop the interface cockpit which, while cool and all, is also the single most complicated bit of tech in the whole thing and has numerous other dependent systems - EI equipped pilot, interface PAL suit and the like. Dropping that keeps the core of the 'Mechs functionality (a 6/9 Medium Omni that replicates the classic Ryoken) intact. Of course, then the issue becomes finding three tons and four crits for the Gyro.
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I toyed with this.
If you drop the FerroLam for Ferro Fibrous, you can drop the Interface Cockpit. But then, all you really have is a Stormcrow with fewer crits and TSM. Which is really kinda boring.
I suspect we'll be seeing it as-is, but not in large numbers.
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I would keep the FL myself, because it's that damned useful.
The silliest idea I had was to go mixed tech a bit more; drop the TSM for crits and slop in an XL gyro. That only needs one ton after the cockpit switch
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A Small Cockpit would get you that ton. But I feel like an XL Gyro and a Small Cockpit yaws wildly away from what the prototype shows us.
Instead of a gyro-free super agile EI Driven mech, we get a harder to pilot, easier to bring down machine
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I'd definitely avoid the small cockpit myself. The most obvious answer would be remove pod space or heat sinks, both of which wouldn't overly affect the performance
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Well, there's not that many sinks to drop, and without the TSM, we're looking at some heat issues if we start dropping those.
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Keep it as it is and drop some pod space for MORE Ferro-Lamellor I say! :D
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Watch out for the Triskelion, trothkin. You would think that a Warwolf's Reactive Armor would make it an attractive counter to the trisk, but 4x ERML still hurts, and with the 360 twist and 1mp hex facing changes, they're going to be more mobile than your biped Timber Wolves and Warwolves.
they are clan mechs in all but name and skeleton.
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I wonder how it stands up to Mad Cats because it doesn't seem to think much about Warwulf's.
It might be the most optimized 75 ton mech out there...
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As long as you hit high (torsos, head, arms) you won't have any more trouble than any other Clan 'Mech. If you start spreading that leg damage around to a third leg that's where the tripods have an advantage.
The Warwolf variants with AMS will have an easier time, although if you can get an H in close, the big hole punchers might carve it up quicker. For the Timber Wolf it will be able shear damage, beat down the tripod. Unless your 'Mech can jump 7+ hexes you will likely lose the maneuverability battle, so the best bet is to pick units that focus their tonnage on firepower.
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As long as you hit high (torsos, head, arms) you won't have any more trouble than any other Clan 'Mech. If you start spreading that leg damage around to a third leg that's where the tripods have an advantage.
The Warwolf variants with AMS will have an easier time, although if you can get an H in close, the big hole punchers might carve it up quicker. For the Timber Wolf it will be able shear damage, beat down the tripod. Unless your 'Mech can jump 7+ hexes you will likely lose the maneuverability battle, so the best bet is to pick units that focus their tonnage on firepower.
See, that's what I expected, but the motive bonus is what bedeviled me the most. I thought the C would be a shoe-in, till my LPL got critted. the Warwolf's smaller armament list does it no favors. Still, even after losing that LPL, the HE ATMs made sure the Trisk knew it had been in a fight.
the H served me best. I had to push it hard, used both coolant pods, but I did manage to gut it.
Against a determined aggressor the A just couldn't keep range, and that 1mp turn-any-facing stuff really troubled it.
Timber-wise, I'm inclined to go with the A or D variants. A for damage output and D for "fine, come at me, any facing, you'll get the same no matter where you are"
Even more than the Timber Wolf, I want to see one up against a skinwalker. Lets see how it does when I have 6 or 7 mp to deal with
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I'll take that challenge. I'd like to see how it does against Sea Fox equipment. Not sure though. My Vultures have stood up against Warwolves before... but the XXL engine of the Savage Wolf might be a liability.
One thing that's being overlooked is the Trisks targeting computer. It let me make run/walk or range decisions against the Warwulf.
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The Triskelion is almost everything the Catapult always wanted to be.
I'd be tempted to trade the Trisk's Artemis V for bigger LRM-20 launchers and special ammo. The crits appear to work.
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Thinking about it some more, I think something like a Karhu Prime, a Viper B, Griffin IIC 8, etc things with a 7+ jump and an ERPPC or ERLL to out range the Triskellion are going to have a better advantage, otherwise you want a pocket-assault or an assault 'Mech to dish out the damage up close.
Steve, I'd try that battle again, getting a weapon critted once doesn't necessarily validate the results, unless it tends to happen often. Likewise you could have plinked an ERATM missile on the head and blown it off or critted both cockpits in your first shot.
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Steve, I'd try that battle again, getting a weapon critted once doesn't necessarily validate the results, unless it tends to happen often. Likewise you could have plinked an ERATM missile on the head and blown it off or critted both cockpits in your first shot.
Sure, it's a freak accident, but my point was it's more that the low number of weapons on a lot of warwolf configs makes it more vulnerable to that kind of accident
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We can just try a broader fight. Ryoken III, Mad Cat, Warwulf versus some Trisks. Or Warwulfs or whatever.
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Sure, it's a freak accident, but my point was it's more that the low number of weapons on a lot of warwolf configs makes it more vulnerable to that kind of accident
ah, now I gotcha. It's true, the canon variants tend to be limited on the numbers of weapons, that they seem to be set up to fire everything all the time. But you can get some great custom variants out of the chassis that would work better to address this concern.
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just re-ran the Warwolf C v.s. Triskelion match with Kojak. I mean, what're the chances of me getting a freak TAC to a weapon early in the fight again, right?
... Apparently they're really good. Only like 4 turns in, two of them which we could fire at each other, and I'm already short one launcher.
I did come out on top thanks to some crits of my own that slowed him down, but boy were we both in rough shape at the end. All I had left by the end was the LPL and the LAMS.
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Yeah, I think it was the Prototype quirk that got me in the end. It cranked up the crit chances that resulted in a couple hits that were just straight-up catastrophic.
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While I'm popping into Clan threads and talking about Bloodnames, your Khan Alaric may be interested to know that the Cloud Cobras do have a Steiner Bloodname...
*ducks*
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They do, but it's been said to be a non-relation to the lyran throne. And even if it were, it's a homeworld legacy the wolves wouldn't have access to.
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Aw, darn it. Outdone by logic, once again!
On a more serious note, while I was a MWDA and AoD player, and was pretty conversant with the fluff at the time, I didn't read most of the books Alaric got focus in. Do we know what the cover story for his sibko was, who exactly he was said to have been descended from that qualified him for the Ward name? Sarna just mentions that he won it, no real mention of how.
Apologies if this is too tired a topic of discussion. I'm really not trying to discredit him; his achievements speak for themselves. I'm just curious as to how he got there.
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It all happened offscreen, they were pretty scant on the details about how he was decanted/raised/trained.
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They do, but it's been said to be a non-relation to the lyran throne. And even if it were, it's a homeworld legacy the wolves wouldn't have access to.
Actually, no, Kailen Steiner (the founder of that particular Bloodname) was the (illegitimate) child of Paul Steiner, who was in turn the son of Michael Steiner II, the fifteenth Archon of the Lyran Commonwealth (Paul himself apparently never ended up Archon, but his two presumably elder siblings, Robert II and Jennifer, were the sixteenth and seventeenth Archons, respectively). So technically speaking, while not legitimated in a legal sense, genetically the Steiner Bloodname does come directly from the original Lyran royal line.
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Aw, darn it. Outdone by logic, once again!
On a more serious note, while I was a MWDA and AoD player, and was pretty conversant with the fluff at the time, I didn't read most of the books Alaric got focus in. Do we know what the cover story for his sibko was, who exactly he was said to have been descended from that qualified him for the Ward name? Sarna just mentions that he won it, no real mention of how.
Theoretically? He thinks he is Vlad's kid his whole life.
He told Trillian they were related but he could just be claiming Katherine Wolf's dna.
They don't know about the Victor thing.
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Theoretically? He thinks he is Vlad's kid his whole life.
He told Trillian they were related but he could just be claiming Katherine Wolf's dna.
They don't know about the Victor thing.
But Bloodname eligibility comes from the genemother's side, so that'd still be a breach of protocol, right? Phelan (and Diana, over in Falconland) could at least claim maternal descent, despite being freeborn.
But I guess Clan tradition does have a tendency to break down whenever it might get in the way of protagonists... :P
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Actually, no, Kailen Steiner (the founder of that particular Bloodname) was the (illegitimate) child of Paul Steiner, who was in turn the son of Michael Steiner II, the fifteenth Archon of the Lyran Commonwealth (Paul himself apparently never ended up Archon, but his two presumably elder siblings, Robert II and Jennifer, were the sixteenth and seventeenth Archons, respectively). So technically speaking, while not legitimated in a legal sense, genetically the Steiner Bloodname does come directly from the original Lyran royal line.
Huh. Wonder if he'll Kell himself should he become ilKhan.
But Bloodname eligibility comes from the genemother's side, so that'd still be a breach of protocol, right? Phelan (and Diana, over in Falconland) could at least claim maternal descent, despite being freeborn.
But I guess Clan tradition does have a tendency to break down whenever it might get in the way of protagonists... :P
Clan Gene Science is freaky. they can use a female donor as the "father" and a male donor as the "mother."
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Huh. Wonder if he'll Kell himself should he become ilKhan.
Clan Gene Science is freaky. they can use a female donor as the "father" and a male donor as the "mother."
Correct, and since he interacted with Katherine on a regular basis, calling her "mother" was probably more of a way to refer to her in a way that would make sense to her.
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I would ask where he got the Y chromosome from in that case, but I guess I'll just content myself in the knowledge that Clan genetics still isn't as screwy as Metal Gear Solid genetics.
(Liquid would make a good Clanner, though.)
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In Masters of War he hoped he came from Vlad. I think the sibko he was raised in did. I think he learned that his “mother” was Kathryn early on. But he was still trueborn, presumably from a Vlad/Kathryn match. Later he learned that his “father” was VSD.
What I’ve never understood is why House Ward allowed him to compete for the Ward bloodname. In Bonfire (I think), the Loremaster was the leader of House Ward. His internal dialogue strongly suggests he knew that Alaric wasn’t legitimate. So why he allowed Alaric to compete is strange. Even without a bloodname, Alaric was worthy of contributing to the genepool, and would still be an influential military and political figure.
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I imagine Alaric is the physical manifestation of the extreme of Might Makes Right.
He can claim he's part of any bloodhouse he wants. What's the word of scientists or genetic data laid against victory in a Trial of Refusal? Alaraic can force the Clan to wear their underwear on their heads if noone can stop him in a circle of equals.
"You're not even part of that Bloodhouse, Alaric!"
"I say I AM."
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I dunno, genetics are a thing the clans are pretty uptight about. Lot of supersitions there, lot of strong feelings about it. I doubt you could claim a blood heritage you have NO connection to. a bloodhouse is going to have up to what, something like 200 bloodnamed in it?I imagine that 200:1 ratio is about what you'd face in a trial over the issue. Short of bringing like... an arrow urbie with a nuke (which would render you toxically dezgra in its own right) I don't see a way to prevail over that steep a fight.
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I dunno, genetics are a thing the clans are pretty uptight about. Lot of supersitions there, lot of strong feelings about it. I doubt you could claim a blood heritage you have NO connection to. a bloodhouse is going to have up to what, something like 200 bloodnamed in it?I imagine that 200:1 ratio is about what you'd face in a trial over the issue. Short of bringing like... an arrow urbie with a nuke (which would render you toxically dezgra in its own right) I don't see a way to prevail over that steep a fight.
They might be uptight about it, but it seems that if you have enough cards in your hand you can force your way into a bloodhouse despite having no valid connection to it.
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They might be uptight about it, but it seems that if you have enough cards in your hand you can force your way into a bloodhouse despite having no valid connection to it.
But Alaric's really the only case of that, isn't he? And it wasn't known in his case. Aidan was a Pryde Trueborn, he just had a heap of dezgra baggage around his neck (and still had to fight a Trial of Refusal to make it in). Diana's genes were 100% from Pryde Trueborns, and had the Khan on her side. Phelan had a genetic link, however tangential, and also had a Khan on his side. Alaric's the only weird Bloodname case I know of where there's genuinely no connection.
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Phelan Ward/Kell and Arthur Steiner-Davion were cousins.
Were they just cousins-in-law through Morgan Kell, who was a cousin of Katrina Steiner's husband Arthur Luvon?
Or were they cousins with a common ancestor? Specifically, did some part of the Steiner or Davion line descend from SLDF Captain Michael Ward, like Phelan Ward/Kell was a descendant of SLDF Captain Michael Ward through his mother, Salome Ward?
If it's the latter, then maybe Alaric has a legitimate claim to a Ward bloodname in the same way Phelan did.
FWIW...
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Phelan's "legit" claim to a Ward Bloodname was probably more then a little "influenced" by Ulric in the name of giving himself an ally with rank and position and the potential to increase in both. As a bondsman or even an adopted freeborn, he still could only go so far, but with a Bloodname, he coild get to Khan
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I dunno, genetics are a thing the clans are pretty uptight about. Lot of supersitions there, lot of strong feelings about it. I doubt you could claim a blood heritage you have NO connection to. a bloodhouse is going to have up to what, something like 200 bloodnamed in it?I imagine that 200:1 ratio is about what you'd face in a trial over the issue. Short of bringing like... an arrow urbie with a nuke (which would render you toxically dezgra in its own right) I don't see a way to prevail over that steep a fight.
A bloodhouse will have a max of 25 bloodnamed warriors in it. Having something like 200 active warriors is reasonable, but each bloodhouse is limited to 25 bloodnames, unless it's lost some in reavings.
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A bloodhouse will have a max of 25 bloodnamed warriors in it. Having something like 200 active warriors is reasonable, but each bloodhouse is limited to 25 bloodnames, unless it's lost some in reavings.
And given that even some of the most prominent and powerful Bloodname Houses have been reduced to five or fewer legacies over the centuries, it's probably safe to assume that very few Houses still have all twenty-five.
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Phelan's "legit" claim to a Ward Bloodname was probably more then a little "influenced" by Ulric
No doubt. Obviously Phelan was not a product of his Clan's trueborn breeding protocols. It took Ulric's intervention to ignore this fact when Phelan competed for a Ward bloodname.
But through his mother Salome Ward, Phelan was a direct matrilineal descendant of SLDF Captain Michael Ward. Phelan carried the right Ward genes; they just hadn't been tweaked by the Scientist Caste for a couple centuries.
What I'm wondering is whether Alaric also carries Ward genes. We know that the Wards and Kells are cousins of the Steiners through marriage, due to Arthur Luvon's marriage to Katrina Steiner.
But are all these cousin references about more than just the Luvon/Steiner marriage? Did the Steiner or Davion line cross with SLDF Captain Micheal Ward's line at some point farther in the past? That's what I'm asking.
If the Steiners or Davions do carry Ward genes, then it's possible that Alaric may have as "legitimate" (or nearly as "legitimate") a claim on a Ward bloodname as Phelan did.
That would be a very different situation than if Alaric claimed a Ward bloodname with no Ward genes.
(That also begs the question of who had the clout to force the Ward bloodhouse to accept Alaric's claim. If it took someone of Ulric's stature to allow freeborn Phelan to compete with good Ward genes, who had even more power to allow trueborn Alaric to compete with no Ward genes?)
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A bloodhouse will have a max of 25 bloodnamed warriors in it. Having something like 200 active warriors is reasonable, but each bloodhouse is limited to 25 bloodnames, unless it's lost some in reavings.
Whoops, jumbled that up then.
I still wouldn't fancy having to fight up to 25 warriors who object to my being preposterous though.
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Whoops, jumbled that up then.
I still wouldn't fancy having to fight up to 25 warriors who object to my being preposterous though.
If it became a whole-Clan political issue rather than just a Bloodhouse issue, too, the odds could get even worse. There were other issues at foot (primarily Ter Roshak's deception and Aidan's retesting), but it was a vote of nearly half the Falcons' Bloodnamed warriors (all those who could attend) that set the odds for the Refusal Aidan had to fight before challenging for his Bloodname. Only Ter Roshak's political connections managed to bring those down to a survivable three-to-one.
Piss off too much of your Clan and you'd basically just be sending out the invitation to your own Annihilation.
Of course, the inverse is equally true: Have enough friends (or friends in high enough places), and you should be fine. It's possible that, as Khan, Alaric has managed to inculcate enough loyalty to his own person among the warriors of the Wolf Empire to survive the revelation of his true status... but then again, maybe not.
I think it could make for some thrilling fiction either way. (Since even if the Wolves support him, it'd leave him massively vulnerable to protest from other Clans).
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Correct, and since he interacted with Katherine on a regular basis, calling her "mother" was probably more of a way to refer to her in a way that would make sense to her.
I believe she insisted on it.
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It won't come up. Clan Wolf wants him to be a Ward. The Wards want him to be a Ward. If he decided he had been a Kerensky they would have jumped at that too.
He took them out from a rock and a hard place and delivered them to glory. He is more Emperor than Khan and probably dangerously close to being messianic to them.
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(That also begs the question of who had the clout to force the Ward bloodhouse to accept Alaric's claim. If it took someone of Ulric's stature to allow freeborn Phelan to compete with good Ward genes, who had even more power to allow trueborn Alaric to compete with no Ward genes?)
The books make it pretty clear that the Ironborn Sibko that Alaric came from, was some sort of experiment originally initiated by Vlad. His status as part of the Ward Bloodhouse is also "Vlad's deception".
The sense I got was that his claim as a Ward has existed since before he was decanted, whether there are some markers in his DNA that indicate it or if it's just a paper trail, House Ward has always had him as a member of their bloodline.
More than likely the loremaster never went against Alaric openly because of the fear that Alaric would win a trial of refusal, and how the deception would taint the Ward Bloodhouse and the line, as he was also a Ward.
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Hello fellow Wolves,just checking in to see if we are all still alive.I see the IlClan Sourcebook has not came out yet any news?Stay Strong they haven't killed us all yet!
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It appears from anecdotes picked up here and there that IlClan has been shelved and original plans past 3145 Era Report torpedoed.
Move along, nothing to see here. All hype about Wolves taking Terra can now be ignored.
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I'm not sure we can draw that conclusion at all. I think all we can conclude is that they're being absolutely silent about what is going on.
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It appears from anecdotes picked up here and there that IlClan has been shelved and original plans past 3145 Era Report torpedoed.
Move along, nothing to see here. All hype about Wolves taking Terra can now be ignored.
It's still on coming release page
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The delay in IlClan is fine, it lets Wolf players amass huge armies of Wolf minis to be properly painted up so that we can go to the table and start hitting the Republic.
Personally I am working on a Blood Reaper and sitting here staring at a Tundra Wolf that is being a pain since its a tiny nub from the foot on the base plate to the leg. Otherwise the Tundra Wolf mini looks pretty easy though I am not sure I think it translated well from the MWDA figure. I might paint one up as a Steel Wolf machine for fun since I have another in a blister, other wise it will be in camo to be part of a 'generic' set.
The Reaper on the other hand is pretty easy to put together, just trying to decide what I want to do with the missile bay covers. The art makes it look like the slide up, I am thinking about popping open to the outside. Right now the Blood Reaper is the MotW so go check in on the topic with what you think.
Anyone look at the map from FM3145 and start planning the invasion waves?
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It has had the opposite effect on me,I have looked and have stated other systems.I Love Battletech but if they kill Clan Wolf/Wolf Empire off I dont want to be another Jaguar player living in the past as the corpses of our Clan Rots in the grave or lingers in some pretend way.I'll wait for the book and hope I will be playing Battletech for a long time.
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Alaric Ward has a fanatical following among Clan Wolf warriors due to his exploits in the Steiner invasion. And I would guess that it's public knowledge (yet not the truth) that one of his geneparents was Vlad Ward, giving him access to the Ward bloodname.
Kitsune413 said it much better than I ever could though.
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The delay in IlClan is fine, it lets Wolf players amass huge armies of Wolf minis to be properly painted up so that we can go to the table and start hitting the Republic.
Personally I am working on a Blood Reaper and sitting here staring at a Tundra Wolf that is being a pain since its a tiny nub from the foot on the base plate to the leg. Otherwise the Tundra Wolf mini looks pretty easy though I am not sure I think it translated well from the MWDA figure. I might paint one up as a Steel Wolf machine for fun since I have another in a blister, other wise it will be in camo to be part of a 'generic' set.
The Reaper on the other hand is pretty easy to put together, just trying to decide what I want to do with the missile bay covers. The art makes it look like the slide up, I am thinking about popping open to the outside. Right now the Blood Reaper is the MotW so go check in on the topic with what you think.
Anyone look at the map from FM3145 and start planning the invasion waves?
I just assembled and primed a Tundra Wolf, I ended up drilling and using a brass pin in the footbase-to-leg connection. I didn't want to trust that nub. I'm planning to get another Tundra Wolf to convert into a "4"-version. Trying to decide on a Wolf paint scheme now. It's down to Beta Galaxy or maybe 'generic' grey.
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I have planned stars or binaries- probably trinaries when I get all the Elementals set up- in unit schemes and then have a collection of more generic Clan equipment painted in camo shemes.
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That sounds wise. I have a Marauder IIC in Beta Galaxy scheme for a test, and I'd like to get some decals from Fighting Piranha. I think I could make a whole Trinary for the Wolves out of what I have primed.
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It has had the opposite effect on me,I have looked and have stated other systems.I Love Battletech but if they kill Clan Wolf/Wolf Empire off I dont want to be another Jaguar player living in the past as the corpses of our Clan Rots in the grave or lingers in some pretend way.I'll wait for the book and hope I will be playing Battletech for a long time.
I don't think they'll kill the Wolves off. That's like CGL bankrupting themselves by alienating a major portion of their customers.
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It has had the opposite effect on me,I have looked and have stated other systems.I Love Battletech but if they kill Clan Wolf/Wolf Empire off I dont want to be another Jaguar player living in the past as the corpses of our Clan Rots in the grave or lingers in some pretend way.I'll wait for the book and hope I will be playing Battletech for a long time.
I might be alone in this, but I think the Fidelis are much more interesting than the Jaguars.
Lets hope we don't lose them again.
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The delay in IlClan is fine
Well, in my opinion the delay is ridiculous. I doubt that surprises anyone. But I think that it's a little shortsighted to focus on just IlClan now that we know about the Milestones books. What I'm waiting for, what I have lost all patience in this long march towards, is not just IlClan, but simply for the plot to move forward. Any book that does that, has my dollar.
Anyone look at the map from FM3145 and start planning the invasion waves?
Not quite. What I had done is go sifting through every scrap of information that TRO 3150 gives us, trying to scry and infer the fortress-down event from dates and actions given in the book. It's PROBABLY past 3148, because TRO 3150 gives us this under the Juliano
During a lull in 3148, the Red Keshik challenged the First Free World Guards for Jumpship Repair Services at the illium Shipyards of Ionus
And if there was a major action going on, if the Clan were striving towards Terra I doubt that such a period would be referred to as a "lull"
And we know the fortress walls are down no later than January 21st 3150, thanks to the date of the foreward written by Tucker Harwell
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Well . . . ilClan being delayed is no surprise- I like getting the Classics back which cannot happen soon enough. Its also delayed IMO because the cashing in on Alpha Strike . . . for all the 'we are not abandoning old table top' they are pushing Alpha Strike and publishing the books for bringing that game to 3050. I mean we had the time jump discussion where they talked about leaping forward with simplified tech base & weapons . . . well, we did not leap forward but they are producing material linked to a faster simplified game. I think its the future for the franchise they have chosen to run with . . .
. . . on the flip side, has anyone filled the spot Herb vacated? Not having someone at the helm could be another reason we are not really moving ahead on the timeline as they do not want to commit to a future when that person may go another route or adjust it for their vision.
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It's been pointed out before that starting a new era from scratch is something that CGL hasn't done before, and that they don't own the property. The profitability of Battletech is another factor (and not a new one), so can you fault them for spending their time and money on completing the core rulebooks that started over a decade ago instead of starting a brand new setting that may not appeal to everyone?
Because of how the rules work, Alpha Strike would've been the perfect opportunity for new Dark Age products. But Clan Invasion syncs up with MWO, other established products and expectations, and the rules for Total Warfare in that era are easier for new players.
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Well, in my opinion the delay is ridiculous. I doubt that surprises anyone. But I think that it's a little shortsighted to focus on just IlClan now that we know about the Milestones books. What I'm waiting for, what I have lost all patience in this long march towards, is not just IlClan, but simply for the plot to move forward. Any book that does that, has my dollar.
I second your opinion. The dragging of tidbits of information has been going on for far too long.
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[watch] And waiting.
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Maybe GW bought CGL and introduced the "not moving the plot forward" model ;D
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Since this is getting a bit less than wolf related, let us swing back around to something more lupine.
We have recently seen the medium omni gap in our production filled with a new design, the Skinwalker. Have any of you had a chance to use it yet? What did you think of it's performance? What mech(s) do you like partnering it with?
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I had a Ryoken III show up in a game recently. It ate a Gauss Rifle to the head from an RAF Doloire early in the battle.
That told me that it can't take a Gauss Rifle to the head.
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Well that merely puts it in the company of nearly every other mech in existence.
I could swear though, that being armored in Ferro Lamellor ought to atleast give it a chance of taking one on the chin like that.
(Wait, nope, 1 point off of every 5pts. that's still 12 in the head, nm)
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Yeah, a full on hardened head is the only way to survive.
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Yeah, a full on hardened head is the only way to survive.
Or go to the super-heavy ranks. Or a torso-mounted cockpit.
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Perhaps IlClan is being delayed because the PTB are no longer certain that they want to take the storyline in the direction of Clan Wolf conquering Terra.
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I think at this point it's more about a bunch of succession wars navel gazing.
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yeah, it's awful that CGL makes products that people want to buy
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yeah, it's awful that CGL makes products that people want to buy
I agree with the point you're trying to make, but there was probably a less aggressively sarcastic way to put that, dude. I like you and Steve both and I think you're both capable of civil discussion, but that's not a great way to start one.
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I agree with the point you're trying to make, but there was probably a less aggressively sarcastic way to put that, dude. I like you and Steve both and I think you're both capable of civil discussion, but that's not a great way to start one.
Yeah, I know. My fault, shooting off my mouth like that.
Point is, there's probably a number of reasons why ilClan has been bumped down the schedule so much, and there's probably any number of good reasons why CGL is working on the current products that they are rather than it in specific. I can't say why, and I can imagine that a lot of them are down to a combination of sales, cross-marketing with other Battletech products (Especially computer games) and other factors that we're not privy to. I can imagine that Topps being the final owners of the Battletech franchise also means they get some influence on the decision-making process, which again is well over our heads.
Steve, I'm not trying to sound rude or aggressive here, but your constant whining about it at every chance you get does not help the situation any. Don't get me wrong; I'd like to see it released as well, and I would like to see the storyline advance. But constantly attacking the writers, the company and any release that isn't the product you want, while also effectively denigrating products that other people are excited for doesn't create a positive atmosphere, nor does it actually constructively contribute to discussions.
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I think those are all totally fair points, and as often happens I feel like I'm kind of on both sides of this one. On the one hand, I certainly have no illusions that CGL is under any obligation to create products that I specifically am interested in (or any other specific fan, for that matter). The fanbase has a variety of interests, lots of people like the Succession Wars era or pre-Jihad stuff in general, and I certainly don't fault them for wanting to throw those folks a few bones since they probably were just as uninterested in the Jihad and 3145 stuff when that was the focus as I am in the SW and Clan Invasion stuff (although I am looking forward to the 1st/2nd SW Historicals just cuz I love a good Historical). And I don't envy the position that CGL is in, having to balance those various competing interests and still keep a relatively small fanbase interested enough for BT to continue to be viable; it's why, even though I have zero interest in Alpha Strike and products supporting it, I'm glad CGL is making bold moves like that to bring in new players and cater to the less detail-oriented. I personally am willing to be patient while they work on the moving-the-story-forward stuff.
On the other hand, I can see why not everyone might be willing to extend that patience. In a few months the ongoing story will have effectively been "on hold" (not counting the little teasers we got in the TRO 3150 fluff) for as long as the period between the end of the FCCW and the beginning of the Jihad (or Forever67, as I sometimes think of it), which was from 2002 to 2005; and unlike the relative lull/stasis that existed at the end of the FCCW, the current story's hold point has a whole lot of plates spinning at once. I can understand why folks would be frustrated not to see some of that moved to a similar lull point; it can feel like getting halfway into a story and then being told you have to wait years and years for the rest of it. Now, I agree that it's not really fair to denigrate CGL for choosing to focus on other parts of the setting at the moment, but at the same time no fan is under any obligation to be happy about that fact. Ultimately, it's up to each individual player to decide whether it's worth the wait; I know I'll wait it out, but I can't fault others for not making the same choice.
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I'm in kind of a funny position here, forex, my TRO:3150 should arrive tomorrow, I'm painting Dragoons, Wolf Empire, and Wolf Hunters minis for DA, but I'm so totally jazzed that we're going to get SW books, oh - if we get Era Reports for the 4th Secession War-timeframe - and plastics that I can use to make Nasty and the Black Widows, you'll hear how happy I am from wherevers you are. :)
I guess one way I can put it is this, I like historical minis as well, I can enjoy painting my British for the Victoria-era, and 101st Airborne for D-Day in the same session, and really Battletech is the only sf game I can think of that gives me the same feels, I'm also painting Dragoons for Misery/4thSW while I'm painting Wolf Empire. I love that about Battletech, that I get those same feels. :)
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Just checking in.Have we been killed/won yet?.Anything SOLID on the IlClan yet? I saw the new dice ::)
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No, no and nice aren't they.
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I'm late to the party. Anyone use this name?
License to il
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Just checking in.Have we been killed/won yet?.Anything SOLID on the IlClan yet? I saw the new dice ::)
Honestly?
I think they wrote themselves into a corner and are back-filling with Age of War stuff while they figure out what to do beyond 3150.
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Herb is pretty consistent when he says that post-3150 got canned because of a violent negative response by a minority of posters on the forums. Despite popular misconception, he doesn't actually lie about things.
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Herb is pretty consistent when he says that post-3150 got canned because of a violent negative response by a minority of posters on the forums. Despite popular misconception, he doesn't actually lie about things.
my sense of timing might be badly off on this, but i believe the blurb for ilClan on the coming releases page was added well after the 3250 guanostorm. I think they know what they want to do but work has slowed to focus on the Combat Manuals and other alpha strike stuff
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Herb is pretty consistent when he says that post-3150 got canned because of a violent negative response by a minority of posters on the forums. Despite popular misconception, he doesn't actually lie about things.
I thought the dislike was for a possible time jump to 3250, rather than "We don't want to see anything post 3145." There's a big difference between the two concepts.
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my sense of timing might be badly off on this, but i believe the blurb for ilClan on the coming releases page was added well after the 3250 guanostorm. I think they know what they want to do but work has slowed to focus on the Combat Manuals and other alpha strike stuff
While I think you're correct, I also wonder if they have had a change of heart about what is the story they want to tell post-3145. The seemingly sudden switching of gears to look backwards in BattleTech's timeline may be a way to help give time to reevaluate and if necessary adopt new plans for the future of the storyline.
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I thought the dislike was for a possible time jump to 3250, rather than "We don't want to see anything post 3145." There's a big difference between the two concepts.
Can anyone fill me in on what happened there?
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IIRC it was . . . 100 year jump, new weapons so superior to everything else they retire the old PPC, etc but the number is down to 16 or something. New equipment is so superior to everything your favorite Timberwolf is now the equivalent of trying to use a old IBM typewriter in the office.
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Different complaints seemed to focus on different rumors. AFAIR the biggies were:
Time Jump- we just had a leap from 3085 to the Dark Age. An even bigger leap of 100 years would be more of the same, but only MORE so. And/or there's a perfectly good setting in 3145 so why throw it away with a time jump?
"Rules reboot"- establishing a new, 2nd ED boxed set-sized weapons catalog to replace all the weapon diversity of TW/TO (and maybe SO) definitely did not sparkle with some. We didn't know whether there was actually going to be a rules reboot, and if so whether or not TW/TO would be backwards compatible, but there was alot of fear that there would be a reboot and that said reboot would render everything you own now unusable in the new rules.
I find it a bit telling that TPTB are willing to let it "be known" that the former is no longer on the table, but they're much more coy about the latter. Then again, since a rules reboot was never actually a for-sure, known thing that was being planned, there may simply be nothing for TPTB to refute.
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Can anyone fill me in on what happened there?
Someone broke NDA (non-disclosure agreement) and told a buddy about some very early concepts for a 100-year time jump. Said buddy then blew up the forums complaining about it. The line developer was forced to bring it into the light far too early; the project was barely months into a five-year (IIRC) development plan. Fan reactions were actually rather positive, but a loud-mouthed few got on their soapboxes and decried the whole thing, despite "the whole thing" not being finished yet. Contrary to rumor - and yes, Herb himself - it wasn't fan reaction which canned the project, but internal politics at IMR/CGL...but those few jerks certainly didn't help.
I'd rather not go into specifics on the 3250 setting, as I was under a NDA myself, and I don't want to reveal anything that might still be in the upcoming IlClan sourcebook. But I can confirm that work was being done on a new generation of technology. The goal was to semi-reset things to where a new boxed set could serve as a full introduction to the universe, much like the original BattleTech games, and new players wouldn't have to buy a set of hardback books to know what each bit of equipment does. The new tech would be superior to what we see now, but not so overwhelming that you couldn't mix it up in games. The "16 weapons" would all be new; nobody was planning on cutting out anything that had been published.
Another very important thing to point out is that, in general, fan opinion of the Dark Age era is pretty low. I ran a poll in the General Discussion subforum about what eras people want to see developed further, and nearly 50% of votes were either for the end of the Dark Age and into the presumed ilClan era, or for a time jump past it. Indeed, if we ignore the First Succession War (since it's getting a sourcebook today, if everything goes well), the top vote getters were End of Dark/IlClan (at an astonishing 36.2%), Third Succession War (10.2%; ****** nostalgia votes), Time Jump past ilClan (6.7%), Stay in the Dark Age (6.3%), and Age of War (5.5%); nothing else got more than 3.9% of the votes. I am confident that, several years ago when the 3250 was brought to light, fan opinion of the Dark Age was even lower.
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Someone broke NDA (non-disclosure agreement) and told a buddy about some very early concepts for a 100-year time jump. Said buddy then blew up the forums complaining about it. The line developer was forced to bring it into the light far too early; the project was barely months into a five-year (IIRC) development plan. Fan reactions were actually rather positive, but a loud-mouthed few got on their soapboxes and decried the whole thing, despite "the whole thing" not being finished yet. Contrary to rumor - and yes, Herb himself - it wasn't fan reaction which canned the project, but internal politics at IMR/CGL...but those few jerks certainly didn't help.
I'd rather not go into specifics on the 3250 setting, as I was under a NDA myself, and I don't want to reveal anything that might still be in the upcoming IlClan sourcebook. But I can confirm that work was being done on a new generation of technology. The goal was to semi-reset things to where a new boxed set could serve as a full introduction to the universe, much like the original BattleTech games, and new players wouldn't have to buy a set of hardback books to know what each bit of equipment does. The new tech would be superior to what we see now, but not so overwhelming that you couldn't mix it up in games. The "16 weapons" would all be new; nobody was planning on cutting out anything that had been published.
Another very important thing to point out is that, in general, fan opinion of the Dark Age era is pretty low. I ran a poll in the General Discussion subforum about what eras people want to see developed further, and nearly 50% of votes were either for the end of the Dark Age and into the presumed ilClan era, or for a time jump past it. Indeed, if we ignore the First Succession War (since it's getting a sourcebook today, if everything goes well), the top vote getters were End of Dark/IlClan (at an astonishing 36.2%), Third Succession War (10.2%; ****** nostalgia votes), Time Jump past ilClan (6.7%), Stay in the Dark Age (6.3%), and Age of War (5.5%); nothing else got more than 3.9% of the votes. I am confident that, several yearmanagement the 3250 was brought to light, fan opinion of the Dark Age was even lower.
I have two thoughts.
Maybe leadership was right? I know it sometimes feels like creative losing to management but maybe it was the right choice....I don't know.
Era report 3145, the field manual, and the digest were so damn good.
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Maybe leadership was right? I know it sometimes feels like creative losing to management but maybe it was the right choice....I don't know.
I'm sure they feel it was the right decision, but I disagree. I strongly suspect that company management - above the actual game developers, I should say - has bought into a piss-poor marketing plan. Have you seen the Classic BattleTech Twitter feed? It's so full of hashtags and buzzwords that there's barely any content. It's rather painful in ways to watch, since it reminds me so much of big corporate trying to scrabble for nostalgia dollars.
(By the way, IMR/Harebrained: your video game fans are nostalgic for games set in the 3050s, not the 3020s.)
Era report 3145, the field manual, and the digest were so damn good.
Yup. They definitely have made converts of many previous Dark Age haters. Still, the general opinion of the period is low. Just because Catalyst managed to polish a turd to a high-gloss shine doesn't mean that it's not still shit. Too much of the era was decreed from on-high, and it's a miracle the writers managed to get it as good as it is.
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Of course, some of those voters might not necessarily hate the Dark Ages, and just figure that CGL/FP/Wizkids has already covered it, and want the story to progress, rather than staying in an era that has already had sourcebooks and novels dedicated to it. A vote for ilClan may not be a vote for hatred of DA, but an expression of "Lets get to the next part of the storyline."
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I'll concede that point. Accurately gauging fan interest is hard.
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the interest for the post-3150 era in your poll was even higher than the 36% indicated. 145 voted in the poll and 92 picked ilClan... so nearly two in three people picked post-3150 as one of their choices.
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the interest for the post-3150 era in your poll was even higher than the 36% indicated. 145 voted in the poll and 92 picked ilClan... so nearly two in three people picked post-3150 as one of their choices.
That's part of why I allowed two votes per person. For the past fifteen years or so, BattleTech has been a multi-era setting. Look at the last four major supplements published. One is for the First Succession War, one is split between the late Third Succession War and early Clan Invasion, one is (very) late Dark Age, and the last covers literally every era at once (IO).
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Real Clan Wolf/Wolf Empire problems.
(http://67.media.tumblr.com/56ecb5a1470ff69d25b2f62153dc9fe4/tumblr_o6jtw30HY11ugza5uo1_1280.jpg)
(http://66.media.tumblr.com/fe4d0bc99a25c9f587fbfab4d9fc2ca7/tumblr_o6jtw30HY11ugza5uo2_1280.jpg)
(http://67.media.tumblr.com/d05af16f63fef8efe9c21f413c2ebb9e/tumblr_inline_o6k5tdQutD1r0rrde_540.jpg)
(http://67.media.tumblr.com/d6e8ac553f00939b54ba00dd7ca08149/tumblr_inline_o6ksd3CadS1rxyp13_500.jpg)
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Noice!
Also, I forgot to include my point as to why my talk of post-Dark Age stuff is important to this thread: Clan Wolf was going to be a major part of the post-Republic era. Again, not going into specifics, but the general plot should be obvious to anyone who follows the Clan.
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*dig* Really? TPTB seem interested in exterminating the Wolves as evidenced by Arc Royal being overrun. The Crusader Wolves on the other hand . . .
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*dig* Really? TPTB seem interested in exterminating the Wolves as evidenced by Arc Royal being overrun. The Crusader Wolves on the other hand . . .
*deeper* Yeah, the bad guys were going to win.
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Define good. Define bad. I would hate it more if a bad character, like Anastasia Kerensky, Danai Liao, or Julian Davion were to "win".
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*dig* Really? TPTB seem interested in exterminating the Wolves as evidenced by Arc Royal being overrun. The Crusader Wolves on the other hand . . .
Understandably. Interbreeding with local wild dogs produces hybrids which are useless for the purposes of preserving the species. ;)
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Just because Catalyst managed to polish a turd to a high-gloss shine doesn't mean that it's not still shit. Too much of the era was decreed from on-high, and it's a miracle the writers managed to get it as good as it is.
While the story arc is good, the writing was anything but. The faction TRO releases were mishandled and if you're a fan of the wrong faction in the FM, the lack of details will majorly frustrate. I'm not going to describe all the ambiguous writing of everything post-Bonfire of Worlds as "polish a turd to a high-gloss shine", not when you have to pay for TRO re-runs that tease everything without revealing anything even remotely concrete.
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I was unaware that it was the job of TRO's to reveal the intricate workings of the universe. I thought their job was to talk about stompy robots n stuff.
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I was unaware that it was the job of TRO's to reveal the intricate workings of the universe. I thought their job was to talk about stompy robots n stuff.
That is their job. But for the game line as a whole, TR 3150 is the only book covering post 3145, so regardless of its intent, it is serving as the only sourcebook presenting the "current" status of the universe. As a teaser, that's fine. As an overall plan with no coming releases to do anything more, I can see why someone would object. IE. TR3150 isn't the problem, TR3150 being all we have and seem likely to have for a long while is.
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I was actually being kinda snarky there, not serious.
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While the story arc is good, the writing was anything but. The faction TRO releases were mishandled and if you're a fan of the wrong faction in the FM, the lack of details will majorly frustrate. I'm not going to describe all the ambiguous writing of everything post-Bonfire of Worlds as "polish a turd to a high-gloss shine", not when you have to pay for TRO re-runs that tease everything without revealing anything even remotely concrete.
I understand, and I agree. I am not happy about CGL pulling that shit. I am finding it very hard to justify continued purchases; if First Succession War hadn't been written by someone I consider a friend, I doubt I would've bought it.
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That is their job. But for the game line as a whole, TR 3150 is the only book covering post 3145, so regardless of its intent, it is serving as the only sourcebook presenting the "current" status of the universe. As a teaser, that's fine. As an overall plan with no coming releases to do anything more, I can see why someone would object. IE. TR3150 isn't the problem, TR3150 being all we have and seem likely to have for a long while is.
Exactly. Now I understand given the economic situation and all, that TPTB would hold back on risky or overly-ambitious release schedules. But the universe-shaking events happening to most everyone after To Ride The Chimera is on a bigger scale than the 4th Succession War and FCCW, but as a comparison we got NAIS 4th SW Military Atlas(in dual volumes!) and the Fed Com Civil War sourcebook, which were jam-packed with details down to units and blow-by-blow accounts. Those were excellent must-haves.
While for the post-To Ride The Chimera stuff, we only have the Era Report(whose niche is to provide a broad overview on major things and characters without going into details) and the Field Manual(see my previous comments).
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I understand, and I agree. I am not happy about CGL pulling that shit. I am finding it very hard to justify continued purchases; if First Succession War hadn't been written by someone I consider a friend, I doubt I would've bought it.
I'm not saying Historicals are bad products(Reunification War was great, Op Klondike set a new standard for me) but it's really weird seeing First SW and HB:HK getting released when ilClan is what most people would be waiting for.
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The next step will enter undiscovered land, this will be of great risk for CGL.
They must be successful. If not, Battletech is finished.
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Might I suggest they increase the IP visibility through more videogames? MWO and Battletech are in their own niches, but if more SP-focused games are available, market share and support would increase again.
Look what Dawn of War did for 40K. And now the 3rd one just got announced, with all 3 games not even needing to jump on the MMO bandwagon.
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Of course, some of those voters might not necessarily hate the Dark Ages, and just figure that CGL/FP/Wizkids has already covered it, and want the story to progress, rather than staying in an era that has already had sourcebooks and novels dedicated to it. A vote for ilClan may not be a vote for hatred of DA, but an expression of "Lets get to the next part of the storyline."
This. Almost exactly this.
I have little beyond contempt for everything from 3132 until the novels start focusing on oriente. But by the time we reach FM3145/Bonfire of Worlds, we've pretty much broken free of all the terrible crap that got established early on in the dark ages, the focus is on the full stage of the inner sphere again, we're seeing stories about the big movers and shakers rather than some dude with a lawnmower he turned into a technical, and it's finally starting to taste like battletech again...
... and we want to throw it all out, just when it's getting good? for a Timeskip? So far, every time skip we've HAD we've gone back and filled in what happened after the fact. 3039? filled in. the period between the end of the jihad and the start of the dark ages? disappointingly filled in. the early succession wars? we just got a sourcebook for that, another one's in the works.
Seems inevitable to me that we'd see another "fill in what happened during the timeskip" book. So, rather than jumping ahead and backfilling, and either straightjacketing ourselves, or creating potential retcon problems (i.e. Were the clans fighting Introtech foes like the Blood of Kerensky novels detailed? or was Advanced tech a thing, like the 3039 soucebook put forward) why not do something battletech hasn't done before? move linearly between major eras.
Now, in a futile attempt to make this thread more wolf-relevant, I hear tell from friends who bought the 1SW sourcebook that the framing device for the book is a document prepared by a Paladin in 3150, and they reference the Fortress Walls still being up as of 3150. However, it does not state a particular date and time in 3150 that the walls are still active at. TRO 3150 gives us a foreward by Tucker Harwell, and that one, dated January 21, 3150 IIRC, references the walls being down.
So, I think this means that the Fortress Walls come down no earlier than Jan 1 3150 (and likely later than that unless the 1sw doc was published at 1am after new years eve) and no later than Jan 21 3150.
ooooor that much like the Tomahawk II not appearing on our RATs in FM 3145, it might just mean that the Left hand doesn't know what the Right is doing once again. *shrug*
and in other news, I finally got the Wolf Logo pin that Arlith picked up for me at Gencon last year :D I'll have pictures of it soon, I'll link them here.
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Might I suggest they increase the IP visibility through more videogames? MWO and Battletech are in their own niches, but if more SP-focused games are available, market share and support would increase again.
Look what Dawn of War did for 40K. And now the 3rd one just got announced, with all 3 games not even needing to jump on the MMO bandwagon.
You can suggest whatever you want, but there already is a new video game in the works, and its influence seems to be turning the clock backwards for the board game.
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You can suggest whatever you want, but there already is a new video game in the works, and its influence seems to be turning the clock backwards for the board game.
Combat manuals set in 3054
Dice sets with a 3025 theme (units in the hbs game maybe?)
Branding matched with hbs game for #SYNERGY
Rumblings materials focusing on post-3145 (ilClan, spotlight on) delayed
brace yourself. the soft reboot is coming.
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So, rather than jumping ahead and backfilling, and either straightjacketing ourselves, or creating potential retcon problems (i.e. Were the clans fighting Introtech foes like the Blood of Kerensky novels detailed? or was Advanced tech a thing, like the 3039 soucebook put forward) why not do something battletech hasn't done before? move linearly between major eras.
There should still be time jumps for eras of relative peace. But agree that it would be great to see eras of significant warfare proceed linearly and avoid major backfill going forward.
With the Clan Homeworlds, we could also see parallel but unrelated story arcs going forward, as happened with the WoR in the Homeworlds and the Jihad in the Inner Sphere.
Would be cool to establish another one or two more geographic areas for parallel but unrelated story arcs. If the Fortress "walls" stayed up, it would essentially create a third if the Republic turned on itself in a civil war within those "walls".
(And then the Wolves can come sweeping in, establish the ilClan, and recreate the Star League... yeah, that's the ticket!)
FWIW...
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*snip*
You're making a big assumption here, and that is there are stories left to tell in the Dark Age. There are not. All of the products we've seen for the era were moving towards IlClan and whatever the next era was going to be. If the brakes had been applied sooner, this would not be an issue, as the story could've been rewritten to slow down the pace. As it is, the third act of the Dark Ages has already begun, but we're left without the final resolution.
The really frustrating thing is that the new video game is going to take a year or two to finish anyway, so why not use this time to close out the Dark Age on the boardgame side of things, then see if a reboot to 3025/3050, a continuation of 3150+, or a time jump to something new is the best option.
Branding matched with hbs game for #SYNERGY
Brand management is an important part of marketing, but the first thing is having a product to sell. When I see a Twitter ad campaign that consists of mostly buzzwords and hashtags, that tells me that the product is inferior. It tells me that there is no care involved, just the minimum effort needed to have something to sell. It tells me that the people involved have not done their research.
Here's a recent "synergy" tweet from the CGL Twitter/Facebook feed: "RT @WeBeHarebrained: #Battletech fans! Meet the #MechWarriors of DeathFromAbove! https://t.co/hsUSziQMoM" Handle, hashtag, buzzword, hashtag, product.
The preview for the linked video is even worse: "BattleTech Death from Above on the HyperRPG Twitch Channel In partnership with Jordan Weisman, the creator of BattleTech, HyperRPG on Twitch.tv, @Hyper_RPG on Twitter presents Death From Above, a new way…" BattleTech is mentioned twice. Death From Above, mentioned twice. HyperRPG, three times. Twitch, twice. Actual content is cut off in favor of branding, and that's the Wrong Answer. (The video itself is utterly cringe-worthy and barely watchable, of course; when I think BattleTech, I think royalty-free jazz, right?)
Sadly, I think BattleTech is in the hands of the marketing wonks now, and they're using a plan from 2010.
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With the Clan Homeworlds, we could also see parallel but unrelated story arcs going forward, as happened with the WoR in the Homeworlds and the Jihad in the Inner Sphere.
Would be cool to establish another one or two more geographic areas for parallel but unrelated story arcs.
THIS.
This would be great.
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Sure, and the product cost for the fans of the what . . . four Clans? . . back in the Homeworlds would have to pay a heavy price tag to make it worth it. Its why they cut down the number of Clans, along with cutting down the number of factions, because products that did not having something about a individual's favored faction did not have as much appeal. Same reason we were told we would never get individual FMs again, rather FM3145's combined format.
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You're making a big assumption here, and that is there are stories left to tell in the Dark Age.
I'm making the assumption that there will be things that happen during whatever timeskip occurs. That Battletech has never seen a period of time in which absolutely nothing happened. I'm suggesting that rather than coming back in 6 months, or 6 years, and detailing the War of 3199, we just go from the conclusion of the dark ages, straight to the next little thing, and from there, to whatever significant events come after that. Jumping WAY ahead, and leaving those things un-detailed is REALLY unappealing to me after how things went with the jump from Jihad to Dark Age.
As it is, the third act of the Dark Ages has already begun, but we're left without the final resolution.
And this is exactly why "Forever145" is so much worse than Forever67 was. At least in 3067, the majority of active plots were either wrapped up, or too early to call anything but foreshadowing. There wasn't the agonizing cliffhanger.
The really frustrating thing is that the new video game is going to take a year or two to finish anyway, so why not use this time to close out the Dark Age on the boardgame side of things, then see if a reboot to 3025/3050, a continuation of 3150+, or a time jump to something new is the best option.
In this, I more or less concur with you. It would be so much better if they just concluded the active storylines and left the future open, whether that's continuing with or without a timeskip, whatever they decide on.
Sadly, I think BattleTech is in the hands of the marketing wonks now, and they're using a plan from 2010.
So how do we convince marketing wonks that it's in their best interests to end the cliffhanger before navel gazing on the succession wars until the end of time?
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*shrugs* I have no idea. BattleTech is in the hands of the investors now. I'll still finish up my collection and keep painting my little robots, but my emotional investment in the game is about done.
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Sure, and the product cost for the fans of the what . . . four Clans? . . back in the Homeworlds would have to pay a heavy price tag to make it worth it. Its why they cut down the number of Clans, along with cutting down the number of factions, because products that did not having something about a individual's favored faction did not have as much appeal. Same reason we were told we would never get individual FMs again, rather FM3145's combined format.
True.
However, the Hoemworlds could be used to introduce some more experimental concepts and to enlarge the universe. Independent from the Inner Sphere. Somekind of a testbed.
So they could win new buyers and improve the fanbase.
IMHO the concentration on the Inner Sphere is boring.
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I am not disagreeing . . . merely giving the company line.
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A couple of things tonight . . .
Walked into the state's main con to find the evening's BT scenario was Hesperus! Wolf Empire vs Jade Falcon & Hell's Horses.
Wolf-
Alaric Wolf/Savage Wolf A
Star Colonel Marcus Radick/Warwolf Prime
Summoner B
Shadow Hawk IIC 4
Wulfen H
2 points of Warg
Carnivore
Asshur
Falcon & Horse
Malvina Hazen/Shrike 'Black Rose'
Thunder Stallion
Grand Summoner Prime
Eyrie
Carnivore
Ishtar
Ironhold 'Fire' x2
My heavies backed up the Carnivore which was traveling down the center of the road headed into the edges of a town the Falcons held. The Wargs were positioned to their right flank in some hills with the cavalry forces taking the left flank. Fire was initially exchanged between the Carnivores (I thought mine was parted out of range, 22 hexes oops) and then Alaric and the Warwolf also tried to pile on the Carnivore. A few hits where exchanged while no fire was spread on the left where cavalry units had closed up to some hills. Wargs were trudging forward on the right.
Next turn was bad for the Falcon Carnivore which was a bit of a better gunner than the Wolf tank . . . but it was the Carnivore and a Ishtar against the Wolf Carnivore, Alaric, Warwolf and Summoner B with the Shadow Hawk IIC 4 using some ER ATMs (that missed). This is where it got bad . . . I cannot remember if the Carnivore connected with one or missed with both (miss I think) but the Wolves pounded on the Falcon tank. Playing with the TacOps rules, the Falcon still took motive damage and some stabilizers for the ERMLs. The Ishtar peeled off to support the flank where the Thunder Stallion was trying to get around the edge to see the lights coming its way. Malvina leaped to the top of a L1 building and unloaded everything at the Wulfen 8 hexes away in heavy woods after it had ran into them. Big light show, everything missed the Wulfen. The Wulfen did not miss, putting 2 iHML into the front of the Ishtar. Malvina's mech was glowing (21 overheat, survived rolls), the Falcon Carnivore was badly shot up and the Eyrie and Grand Summoner had not gotten into the fight.
Next turn the Wulfen ran past the Thunder Stallion to park 3 hexes behind the motionless Shrike. The Asshur passed the Thunder Stallion as well, which found the only target available to it the Shadow Hawk IIC 4. Supporting the TS was the Ishtar which had topped a hill to get short range shots. The Falcon Carnivore was falling back towards the Ironholds and the Grand Summoner which was trying to close up but behind a building blocking LOS to the Wolf heavies. The Eyrie was racing to the right flank, sniping at the Warwolf- where its shots were negated by reactive armor. The Carnivore died without connecting again, the Shadow Hawk IIC 4 lost a arm to the Ishtar while the TS whiffed . . . and the best part IMO was the Wulfen connected with the iHLL to Malvina's torso, unfortunately the CENTER! 1 point of damage went internal, failed the critical roll.
The next turn I learned to give the Ironhold Fires space- 4 APGRs on each of 5 troopers is no joke. I did not get hit bad, but the Asshur does not have much of a margin. The Eyrie tried to use HE ATMs against Wargs . . . who unloaded on the Eyrie. Combined the points hit with both their SPLs, 1 LMG and 3 of the 4 SRM3s- the Eyrie was savaged but not much was critically hit. Alaric started drawing more attention after the Falcons decided their missile weapons were best not used against the Warwulf. Malvina did not fire off to the point of heat problems, but she managed to strip the armor off a Savage Wolf arm and ding the other one. Things progressed from there with damage exchanged as the Wolves started pulling back for a bit of distance while the flankers on the left got behind them.
Final turn the Eyrie stumbled past the Wargs with its limited mobility to take a position behind the backpedaling Summoner B and the Grand Summoner rushed into the midst of the other 2 Wolf heavies and Wolf Carnivore. Alaric was singled out for everything but even though Malvina had stripped off the armor on a side torso they only made a single hit there with a SRM later, critting a XXL slot. The Wargs took down with their remaining weapons (both points hit with SPL & LMG) after it failed its attempt on the back of the Summoner B- no rear torso armor and some internal hits that failed crit checks. The Wolf heavies, Carnivore and Shadow Hawk IIC4 all combined on the Grand SUmmoner . . . with the last shots from the Warwolf finally killing it with a Gauss slug to the open damaged CT to take out the last internals. The Grand Summoner seemed almost crit proof. The Asshur was sacrificed to draw the Thunder Stallion away from the heavies with its LBX . . . which also set up the Wulfen to hit it from the side with iHMLs.
Malvina was ignored . . . you know her feelings about that . . .
Wolf victory IMO . . . JF lost the Carnivore, Grand Summoner and Eyrie while the Wolves lost the Asshur (and most of Alaric's armor). The Wolves had removed all the Falcons from the right side of the battlefield and their most mobile units while still having their own mobility. Sure Alaric had been hammered but he still had a lot of ER ammo left, so it would have been time to back off and the front of the Summoner B was solid. Malvina was left as the most mobile Falcon unit remaining.
Its the first time I have played with a Warwolf . . . and I like the Prime except for those half-arse pod'd JJ. It really was funny to see the Falcons decide they did not like firing at the Warwolf since their missiles came down to doing nothing. Only way it would have been better was if the Crusader Wolves had been allowed to pack Semi-G ammo on that Summoner B so the Warwolf TAG (TC enhanced?) would have been in play.
I would also have liked to have some AE to give love to the Ironholds . . . the Phalanx ISV definitely looks nicer having faced those armored monsters.
Totally separate question . . .
Longinus C . . . it has a Adv SRM4 rather than IS SRM2. Does it still have a King David? Or did the Wolves dump the MWM for a APGR?
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I actually find the Warwolf Prime a little undergunned. It is the configuration built to match the MWDA mini, and while a capable mech, it isn't the hardest hitting Warwolf Variant. I'm a huge fan of the Alpha config, it really rewards Streak Gamblers like myself.
as for the Longinus C, that's a mystery still. TRO 3150 NTNU hasn't received any record sheets yet, despite how bloody long it's been out.
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Not a streak fan . . . but the Warwolf Prime wastes 3 tons on JJ and perhaps another half ton on CASE II- maybe a ton on the TAG though if the Wolf Empire starts using Semi-G LRMs its worth it.
With another 3 or 4.5t you can make the LRMs larger and put ERML on it to use more of the TC.
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I'm actually a fan of tossing on a HAG (just because I love HAGs) and bumping up the LRM Racks.
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Here is a picture of the Falcon tank burning . . . right as the Wolf heavies are about to pivot to the Grand Summoner.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/GuHUFJObKR8O3y0Tvjc3CNDPnsr_ZoRNZSADc9TTNYwmXueOqQmobneKNlr7aQM6wl0h2cSE_YLN=w1024-h576-no)
The Eyrie is out of the shot about to get shot up.
Second to last turn, next turn the Wolf heavies are going to all pull back along with the Carnivore. Malvina comes over but gets ignored while the Thunder Stallion about faces to kill the Asshur spotter . . .
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This is what I am looking at right now for a Wolf Empire force-
Atlas C
Timberwolf
Blood Reaper
Tundra Wolf
Arcas
Savage Coyote
Rabid Coyote
Savage Wolf
Warwolf
Wulfen
5 or 10 Elementals
1 Clan Med BA- Bar?
maybe a Mars Assault Tank
maybe some MWDA plastics converted to TT
Thinking about splitting it between two clusters, but which ones?
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What's the Atlas C's config? is that the slapdash isorla refit, or a personal custom? You might consider the Atlas II Kerensky config (Basically a mixtech Atlas II with clan guns)
I'd consider a carnivore point over the mars tank
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Mars is the mini I have, it either goes with the Wolves or off with the Horses. And yeah, the Atlas C is a upgrade of some of the isorla captured by . . . Epsilon? . . . whoever ended up eating a big link in the Lyran supply chain when the Wolves kicked back at the Lyrans.
Its also already painted in Beta colors, lol.
Basically I figure I have a set of Omnis
Savage Coyote
Savage Wolf
Warwolf
Timberwolf
Wulfen
and 5 points of BA for a Nova
Atlas C
Tundra Wolf
Blood Reaper
Arcas
Rabid Coyote
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I pity the BA that has to ride on the Savage Coyote.
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Lol . . . slow stuff, might be some Hauberk suits if I can find it . . . hmm, I have some MWDA Hauberks I think.
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I've found a video perfectly representing the Wolves 'enthusiasm' at Operation REVIVAL when it was agreed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTpBcHOO_Nk&feature=youtu.be
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Trial of Possession, A.K.A. "How to buy a Savage Wolf, by a Savage Wolf"
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So, what is new on the Lyran and Republic fronts? Anyone kill any Spheroid surats lately?
I am currently working on putting together a Nova (so far I have a Savage Wolf and a Warwolf, and I am planning to add an Ice Ferret H and a Stormcrow, but unsure as to what the fifth 'Mech will be) with an attached Point of Carnivores for Alpha Strike.
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What BA are you using?
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Elementals, though I would use Black Wolves if they had minis. I can also use the Elementals for pre-Dark Age, so they are the best bet.
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Well, neither the Savage Wolf or Carnivores would work before Dark Ages . . .
If you wanted to go classic for the 5th mech spot you can make it an Adder. The other side of that is if you go Invasion era it would all work (except calling the Ice Ferret something other than H) with a single point of Elementals as a Command Star.
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Why not go with a Wulfen? It will work as a great scout. The variants run from 18-26 points. Some go up to as much as 3 damage at short & medium, or 2 at long. They're fast, hard to hit, and omnis.
There was a MWDA figure for the Black Wolf BA you might be able to find online somewhere.
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I wonder if anyone has ever run a nova full of Nova Omnimechs.
After I finish their business on carsphairn my Rho Galaxy wolves will be out of stuff to do till the plot moves forward. I've already crammed way too much to fit into 3145, probably enough to carry them to 3148.
Been focusing more on MWO in my scant free time, picked up a fifth Timber Wolf. Gonna grab Vlad's hero TBR once the new rewards cycle begins. I get nothing extra if I buy it this cycle.
I did talk a friend into painting up some minis for me though, gonna get them done in Rho/15th Assault's colors.
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I wonder if anyone has ever run a nova full of Nova Omnimechs.
Well, now I want to...
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Why not go with a Wulfen? It will work as a great scout. The variants run from 18-26 points. Some go up to as much as 3 damage at short & medium, or 2 at long. They're fast, hard to hit, and omnis.
There was a MWDA figure for the Black Wolf BA you might be able to find online somewhere.
I have been debating a Wulfen H, especially the high-damage config, however, I want to try to run my force as WYSIWYG, so if you have any ideas on which OmniPods in the IWM online store would be good for it, let me know. :)
The only Black Wolf Battle Armor made for DA/AoD was in the Wolf's Dragoons Gamma Regiment set, and those came out towards the end of MechWarrior Clix, so not many floating around, and quite a bit more of an investment than a Star of Elementals.
Well, neither the Savage Wolf or Carnivores would work before Dark Ages . . .
If you wanted to go classic for the 5th mech spot you can make it an Adder. The other side of that is if you go Invasion era it would all work (except calling the Ice Ferret something other than H) with a single point of Elementals as a Command Star.
I know the Savage Wolf, Warwolf and Carnivores cannot be used pre-Dark Age, that's why I have a Timberwolf. :D
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I have been debating a Wulfen H, especially the high-damage config, however, I want to try to run my force as WYSIWYG, so if you have any ideas on which OmniPods in the IWM online store would be good for it, let me know. :)
Well, you can use the same gun arm for the HLL, maybe cut the barrel shorter to make it obvious it's different. If you want to go a bit wacky, you could use the Solitaire main guns for the shoulder-mounted HMLs, although it'll look odd. There's also the heavy lasers from the Pariah A sprue or the ERPPCs from the Septicemia E mini that could be cut for your use.
The only Black Wolf Battle Armor made for DA/AoD was in the Wolf's Dragoons Gamma Regiment set, and those came out towards the end of MechWarrior Clix, so not many floating around, and quite a bit more of an investment than a Star of Elementals.
True, although if you did get some, you could separate them out to a single BA suit per point, so you'd only need 3 of the MWDA figures.
I know the Savage Wolf, Warwolf and Carnivores cannot be used pre-Dark Age, that's why I have a Timberwolf. :D
Along those lines, instead of a Wulfen, you could bring an Ice Ferret or Phantom as an earlier recon/harasser for the 5th member. The Ice Ferret has one more point of armor (5 vs 4) and the same structure (2), but the Phantom gains an extra 2" of movement (but the same TMM of 3). Both have variants from 23 to 33 or 34 points. Neither one is great a long range, a max of 2 damage for the Ice Ferret and 1 for the Phantom, but each has multiple variants that can get 4 damage at medium/short. The Phantom H gets 5/1/0 damage and the C gets 6/6/0 damage. You may only get 1 or 2 shots with them before they become priority targets, but they will put a hurting on anyone and can one-shot some lights & mediums.
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I am thinking of organizing a Warden Wolf secondline trinary for late Jihad, something like the original make up of the 13th Wolf Guards- surviving oldsters along with some ristars fresh out of the sibkos. It would be provisional with the tempo of operations, plugged into Clusters that had taken serious losses so it would bring them closer to their paper strength. For that purpose it will be heavier machines drawn from replacement equipment in that timeframe.
Legacy Provisional Trinary (Scarred Wolves)
Logo- One-eyed scarred wolf
Command Star (Headhunters)
Hellstar
Cygnus
Glass Spider
Warhammer IIC 3
Elemental, w/transport
Strike Star
Marauder IIC
Scylla
Hunchback IIC 3
Guillotine IIC
Elemental, w/transport
Rogue Star
Arctic Wolf
Pack Hunter
Solitaire
Locust IIC 4
Veh Point- SM1 Tank Destroyers
I can put most of this force on a table- just missing a Cygnus, Glass Spider, SM1 Destroyers, and Locust IIC 4 though the MWDA one could stand in. And the Scylla needs to be put together, lol.
This sort of trinary would, IMO typically move to action with the first two stars forward and the Rogue star behind them waiting for contact to be made. Once contact is made they swing left or right to flank the opposition. Biggest downside is a lack of ECM or even sensors . . . which tends to be the case on older Clan secondline gear- might replace the SM1s for something appropriately old with it, I was originally thinking SL-era machine. Transport would be a Mercer & Confederate (Rogue Star) and the unit would be veteran/fanatical.
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Me, I like a little more homogeneity in my units(personal preference), stuff that can share parts, but at least they seem to more or less move with each other. And you'll get that no-two-alike thing in the Jihad I suppose.
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Well, they do have weapons in common . . . 5 mechs using ERPPC, 2 with ATMs, 2 with Small Heavy Lasers, 2 use SRMs and a few with MPLs & ERMLs for secondaries. . .
Most ammo dependent are the Glass Spider and Arctic Wolf followed by the Scylla, Cygnus and Hunchback IIC 3.
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Inactive Bloodname discussions elsewhere got me to thinking.
Thanks to not really doing anything in the MWDA Lore that CGL can not contradict, the Council of Six is pretty ineffectual, and the IS Clans are pretty free, more or less, to do things however they please. The Bears and Exiles have created Spheroid Bloodhouses and seemingly faced no repercussions for it.
So, what I've started pondering is what it'd be like if the Wolves started reactivating Widowmaker bloodlines to bulk up the number of Trueborn warriors they have now that they are residents of the inner sphere and there is a much larger population disparity. Obviously there's a ~15-21 year lead-time on sibkos.
Personally I think my approach would be to reactivate the more prominent Widowmaker lines, but alloy them with mid-tier Wolf lines. I think this would provide a chance for strength, while taking steps to redeem the lines from the tarnish that comes from them having to be absorbed to begin with.
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Why would you bother reactivating old bloodlines? It's not like there's a limit on the number of sibkos you can make out of one particular genetic legacy. If the issue is "not enough Trueborns", just make more from the bloodlines already active. Two hundred years of selective breeding later, any active bloodline is going to be significantly better than most Widowmaker bloodlines. And if they're not, you might as well give up on the concept altogether because it's clearly not working.
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Here's where I'm coming from on that...
Yes they are going to be a bit dated due to inactivity, HOWEVER, they are still going (in the clan mind) to be better than only relying on Spheroid warriors, quiaff? Alloying them with middle-of-the-road active wolf names is going to compensate some for their datedness, the reactivated lines will simply provide a novel source of genetic possibilities.
Simply jacking up the number of sibkos produced for already active names is going to make competition over bloodnames absolutely savage, to a frankly unnecessary degree. Either you wind up with a lot of disenfranchised unbloods with no viable route to glory, and I can even see having a bloodname becoming something of a target-on-your-back as warriors look for ways to free up Legacies to fight for. OR you decrease the value of these bloodnames by propagating beyond 25 slots, a thing which I imagine they would be reluctant to do.
Reactivating old, inactive lines and propagating your existing houses up to 25 allows you more trueborns without skewing the blood/unblood ratio in that fashion.
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There's no way in hell the Trueborn component of the Wolf touman is larger now than it was in the days immediately before REVIVAL, especially since Trueborn solamha are no longer required for garrison duty. How many Bloodnames does Wolf still control? It has to be upwards of 20, which is still 500 Bloodnamed warriors with full Bloodhouses. Unless you want Bloodnamed warriors to be present in multiples per Star, which has never been something born out in the setting outside of things like Natasha Kerensky's personal command Star on Tukayyid, then there are already plenty of spots to go around.
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I am not thinking about their state today in 3145, I am thinking about a theoretical 3175, or 3195, or 3250, when it's certainly possible that the Wolves might be ilClan, and might have much more territory to oversee, duties to fulfill.
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At that point why wouldn't you want that kind of competition? It's going to be the primary method of keeping warriors who otherwise have no concrete enemy under control and in-line. The Wolf Empire has had absolutely no qualms about using freeborn or even Inner Sphere native troops into their PGCs, and it'd be baffling to think they'd stop that just because they became ilClan.
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I was really more interested in the "How would you go about it?" than the "why bother?", but oh well, at least it's a discussion.
Being fine with using Freeborn and Spheroid troops is hardly the same as being fine with Trueborn primacy fading out. The entire clan touman is a tiny drop in the bucket compared to the realms the clans find themselves managing now. I look at the lesser galaxies and clusters of the Wolf Empire, the ones comprised of local militia forces that are held together mainly by the Free Worlders distrusting the Lyrans and the Lyrans distrusting the Free Worlders, and I start wanting every vat-born warrior I can get my hands on, and then some.
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Actually for Clan sensibilities having the extra bloodnames and making all the 'current' active bloodnames full provides a larger officer corp . . . it means you can have less unblooded Star Colonels (or none) and fewer unblooded Star Captains.
The other thing is that the number of active bloodnames and MAYBE bloodhouses dropped after the Jihad. From that other discussion no page was ever offered to back the assertion that Invasion Wolf had not been using some Widowmaker bloodnames since the absorption.
I would expect a expansion of the breeding program, perhaps offering Bloodhouses Trials of Propagation to increase their active bloodname counts closer to 25- or at least the ones the Crusader Wolves have a controlling interest in. The Crusader Wolves' Dark Age campaigns have offered the best chance for warriors to prove themselves in the Jihad, MAYBE the Invasion considering the taint on the Jihad.
I could also see a very smart and knowledgeable Alaric start holding Trials of Propagation to create new houses . . . structure wise IMO it might be something like the Galaxy Commanders and maybe frontline Star Colonels select a freebirth to compete in a Trial of Bloodname like a Bloodhouse would hold.
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I'll agree that there's no reason for the Wolf Empire to reactivate dormant Bloodnames. In fact, of the Council of Six, they're probably the Clan that has the least reason to right now. They've massively expanded their millitary, yes, but that's been done through the recruitment of Freeborns from their Empire. They've been able to raise entire galaxies from Marik and Lyran worlds, so it's not like they have a dire shortage of trueborn warriors. And they've also been happy to let such adoptees rise to the level of Star Colonel, so it's clear that they trust them. Hell, there are Freeborn Galaxies (eg Theta) that are considered to be "better" then Trueborn ones (eg Kappa).
if the Wovles feel that there is some really direful shortage of Bloodnamed warriors, then it's much easier to simply increase the active Blood Count of a Bloodname then reactivate a dormant one. Remember that by 3145, few if any Bloodnames used by the Council of Six clans have their full 25 active linages so it's not like they're going to be butting up against hard limits any time soon. Given that not even Kerensky has been able to maintain its full 25 (or 50 or whatever) Bloodnamed warriors, then clearly there's a lot of room for the current crop of bloodnames to up the count.
Finally, you have to consider that the Wolves may no longer even have the genetic material from said inactive bloodnames. Remember that their primary IS Genetic Repository was nuked by the Word on Tamar. It's entirely possible that they lost a lot of material there from those dormant bloodnames, especially given the subsequent destruction of their homeworld holdings.
On a realted note, I was surprised to find that pre-Jihad Wolf had effectively the second lowest number of exclusive bloodnames with a mere ten. It only comes up to fifteen with the five Widowmaker ones they reactivated prior to REVIVAL. I have to wonder why theirs was so particularly low.
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Yeah, that Winson was not a exclusive was a bit off . . . IMO it comes down to the ties to the Coyotes, we are given a lot they share.
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Finally, you have to consider that the Wolves may no longer even have the genetic material from said inactive bloodnames. Remember that their primary IS Genetic Repository was nuked by the Word on Tamar. It's entirely possible that they lost a lot of material there from those dormant bloodnames, especially given the subsequent destruction of their homeworld holdings.
Well, the Empire may or may not have a full set, but the Wolves in Exile do. Ulric sent a copy of everything they had with Phelan and the Exiles. Could always trial them for copies, or wrest them from the Falcons when Arc Royal falls.
On a realted note, I was surprised to find that pre-Jihad Wolf had effectively the second lowest number of exclusive bloodnames with a mere ten. It only comes up to fifteen with the five Widowmaker ones they reactivated prior to REVIVAL. I have to wonder why theirs was so particularly low.
Success attracts moochers?
Actually for Clan sensibilities having the extra bloodnames and making all the 'current' active bloodnames full provides a larger officer corp . . . it means you can have less unblooded Star Colonels (or none) and fewer unblooded Star Captains.
Yes, this is more of what I was thinking.
The other thing is that the number of active bloodnames and MAYBE bloodhouses dropped after the Jihad. From that other discussion no page was ever offered to back the assertion that Invasion Wolf had not been using some Widowmaker bloodnames since the absorption.
Yeah, this is true, the plot did (for no seeming good reason at all) demand that the clans winnow their bloodnames in the wake of the Jihad/WoR. Never made much sense to me for them to be doing that. Just seemed like it was done to fit with the "Game's smaller now" paradigm.
I could also see a very smart and knowledgeable Alaric start holding Trials of Propagation to create new houses . . . structure wise IMO it might be something like the Galaxy Commanders and maybe frontline Star Colonels select a freebirth to compete in a Trial of Bloodname like a Bloodhouse would hold.
Also possible, particularly following a momentous event like taking Terra (and holding it), I could make the case of "these Freeborn warriors distinguished themselves in our campaign to take Terra, an event as monumental as Operation Klondike, they deserve the chance at recognition." AND, if he DOES take Terra, he will be ilKhan, by virtue of leading the ilClan, and Bloodname Creation IS a right of the ilKhan.
That would make for some very interesting trials though. I can see what you're going for, structuring it like that.
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I don't understand the "more bloodlines = more/better officers" part. Having a Bloodname doesn't make you a good officer, being a good officer increases your chances of getting a Bloodname. ??? If you're activating bloodlines that don't perform as well due to the ceaseless march of progress and time, you're going to experience a net decrease in the quality of your officer corps, not an increase.
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I guess that the pre-REVIVAL Wolves were just worse at protecting their Bloodnames then anyone else. At least the Coyotes had an excuse for their small bloodname count.
Aaaaaanyway...
There are a number of reasons for the lower active bloodcount among the Council of 6 Clans. The first and foremost is the damage done by the Wars of Reaving; bloodlines being 'tainted', Bloodnames being targeted by genetic diseases, sheer staggering losses on a scale that the Clans had never experienced before and so on. The result is that there's a massive drop off in the number of warriors that are active in the Clans, and with many Bloodnames being all but extinct. There's not much value in having twenty-five active Bloodrights when there's only half a dozen warriors to hold them.
Added to that is the post-war environment that results in everyone - Clans included - having smaller millitaries. Keeping the number of active Bloodrights up would result in far greater numbers of bloodnamed warriors. The result would be a dilution of that Bloodname's political power and standing as there's going to be a greater proportional number of warriors walking around with that name. (And let's be honest here, Bloodnames are as much about politics as everything else). Reducing the active bloodcount is a way of keeping a bloodname 'strong' by stopping legacies begin handed out to every Tom, Dick and Harry that comes along.
There's definitely a strong case for increasing the number of bloodrights, yes. not going to argue that. Get more of them up to their full 25 (If possible; the implication seemed to be to me that there was something 'wrong' with Kerensky) to deal with a larger warrior population, but at the same time, there's still no pressing need to reactivate dead ones. And yeah, I can see a good case for 'rewarding' Freeborns/Adoptees with the formation of their own bloodname, but again, that's far more practical then reactivating a dead bloodname. After all, if it's dead, it's probably dead for a reason.
Finally, there's definitely no need for Bloodnamed officers among the Wolves right now. Again, they have Galaxies full of freeborn warriors who can never earn bloodnames. Theta has one bloodnamed officer at the rank of Star Colonel or above, and that's the Galaxy commander. Yet at the same time, by all reports, Theta has been very successful. If the Wolves were getting all whiney about a lack of bloodnamed officers, then it's the sort of thing that would have been mentioned.
I don't understand the "more bloodlines = more/better officers" part. Having a Bloodname doesn't make you a good officer, being a good officer increases your chances of getting a Bloodname. ??? If you're activating bloodlines that don't perform as well due to the ceaseless march of progress and time, you're going to experience a net decrease in the quality of your officer corps, not an increase.
Pretty much this. More does not mean better.
Well, the Empire may or may not have a full set, but the Wolves in Exile do. Ulric sent a copy of everything they had with Phelan and the Exiles. Could always trial them for copies, or wrest them from the Falcons when Arc Royal falls.
Hey guys, we're surrounded on all sides by hostile enemies. We're busy prepping for the biggest and most important campaign of our history; taking Sacred Terra. And to do that we need to cross the invisible wall in space that eats Warships and fight an enemy that we have no intel on at all. So you know what we should do?
Send a chunk of our forces halfway across hostile space to fight our enemies for access to genetic legacies that nobody's used for a century or more?
Exactly!
Brilliant!
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Well . . . IMO it would have made sense for them to make Trials for what was lost during the Scouring and what could not be taken from the Homeworlds in the midst of the Reavings. The interesting story there would delve into individual Bloodhouse's power IN the Crusader Wolves, because its not as simple as sitting on Strana Mechty and sending out a message any more. The Crusader Wolves would have to go through either some of Lyran space or fight their way through Falcon space to reach Arc Royal . . . you are talking at least a two cluster campaign- perhaps up to a light galaxy with some strong Aero assets.
Unless it was done during the period the Crusaders & Wardens were working together to build the Isegrim attack ships.
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A quick two cents on the issue of more Bloodnames: The Bloodnamed are basically the Clans' equivalent of nobility. As such, since the Invading Clans now have large "commoner" fighting contingents, they don't really need more Bloodnamed troops.
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Well . . . IMO it would have made sense for them to make Trials for what was lost during the Scouring and what could not be taken from the Homeworlds in the midst of the Reavings. The interesting story there would delve into individual Bloodhouse's power IN the Crusader Wolves, because its not as simple as sitting on Strana Mechty and sending out a message any more. The Crusader Wolves would have to go through either some of Lyran space or fight their way through Falcon space to reach Arc Royal . . . you are talking at least a two cluster campaign- perhaps up to a light galaxy with some strong Aero assets.
Unless it was done during the period the Crusaders & Wardens were working together to build the Isegrim attack ships.
What was lost during the Scouring? Of Tamar? Every piece of genetic material was lost, the repository was completely destroyed. Vlad hid that fact from the other Clans until his Watch mission secured the copies in the Homeworlds and the originals. They gave the Jennifer Winson originals to the Coyotes, but took everything else for themselves and left no trace behind. That's what the big event at the Kerensky Bloodchapel was, a cover for the extraction of the original copies of the founders.
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I know Kerensky's genes were smuggled out . . . but that was also not a sample from EVERY Bloodnamed or even Kerensky decanted. So as Deadborder was saying there are chunks missing in their legacies because not everything got out as I understand it. However Ulric sent a complete copy as of '57 (maybe '56) to Phelan to join him in the IS . . . and Natasha gave him a final set as they said good bye.
So while they may have gotten the each Bloodname Founder's original sample, and I am not sure the minors were covered as well or were able to escape, they missed all those in between. So the warriors who were proven outstanding during Revival but died during the Refusal, be they Warden or Crusader, were lost. Even considering if all the Bloodname founders were recovered, you miss the nearly two centuries of warriors since the Founding. The ONLY other legacies they would be able to get would be those who were Bloodnamed in the touman . . . right as they are engaged with the Horses, Blakists and dealing with Scientist caste meddling.
They would also not have all the samples won or captured from other Clans since the Founding.
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From WoR pg 65
On 10 April, the First Wolf Lancers Cluster—having made the journey from the Inner Sphere specifically for the task at hand—landed on Strana Mechty. They then gathered up and escorted the entire genetic stock of exclusive Wolf Bloodnames to their DropShip. With the help of Wolf scientists, the Blood Chapels and the master genetic repository saw many of the Wolf exclusive Bloodnames removed. Because the warriors were careful in their duty and under strict orders by their Khan, few of the other Clans caught onto the Wolf actions until late in the day.
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Even that paragraph contradicts itself . . . 'entire genetic stock of exclusive' vs 'saw many of the Wolf exclusive Bloodnames removed.' Entire is no the same as many . . . and if that was the case, why was the former Coyote charged with getting Kerensky's genes to the IS.
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How many folks have played a Wulfen on the table top against the IS? against Clan foes?
Which model?
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It's difficult to use; you're looking at a 'Mech that will typically be running at 16 heat before weapons fire. With that being said, I've found that it makes a good sniper and a great way to cart Battle Armour around. Having its weapons being primarily arm mounted helps it a lot, even if they do tend to be insanely inefficient. I've had the most luck with B, but that was with careful fire cycling and avoiding the jump jets. A is powerful on paper, but is hard to use effectively given it's rather 'all or nothing' nature. IMO, this is a case where a TC'ed ERLL beats a ER PPC.
With the Wulfen, the goal is to avoid getting close to your enemy, which makes its close-in models a little dubious. H is just plain awful and can't use its weapons even remotely efficiently if the Stealth Armour is on. Hell, it cant use them that well when it's off.
Generally it fares better against IS foes just simply due to weapon range brackets. Also, look out for Eyries; while the Wulfen generally has a hueg range advantage, should one catch you up close (eg jumping on broken terrain) it will eat you alive.
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How many folks have played a Wulfen on the table top against the IS? against Clan foes?
Which model?
Does megamek count, or do you need an actual table involved?
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At all . . . I actually used the H on a table top against a Falcon/Horse force . . . used the Stealth to get in close and then raced about using the buildings to block LOS and treated it like a Solitaire/Phantom H which worked pretty well. It goes for the backshots using its speed.
But that is the only time I have used it so I was wondering on opinions.
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I prefer the B, but I feel bad about using them in pick-up matches. The most effective behaviors with the mech, namely picking away at your foe at top speed while maintaining range, it's not a particularly FAST technique, nor is it the most fun to fight against. Thus I prefer doing it in games against the bot, or against an OpFor who is playing with the full knowlege that the fight isn't intended to be 'fair'. I've also adopted the position of using the Stealth Armor only as an out-of-combat feature, i.e. while advancing to the fight, scouting, or retreating from a threat the wulfen is inappropriate to face.
It also helps that I am a BIG fan of certain optional rules like Extreme Range, Kinder MASC/SC, and MaxTech Move Charts. In vanilla TW, I expect it would be a little less amazing.
It's not my first choice for a clanlike fight. It is however, useful, on the ever-unclanlike battlefields of the inner sphere. Bottom like, if you want a stand-up fight, give me a moment to requisition an adder. if you refuse my batchall, well, here comes the Wulfen to sniff you out and snipe at you.
But, even more than the questionable choice of pairing an XXL heat hog with Stealth Armor, what bothers me about the Wulfen is that the old fluff prior to the release of the wulfen indicated that it was built to partner with the warwolf, and that seems to have fallen by the wayside. Likely because it's damn hard to incorporate a NARC onto that mech the way MWDA had it
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It looks cooler than it performs ;)
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haha?
I would like to see about the movement charts because for the speedsters it really does help.
Like I said, I think you can zip in for backshots against the 3/5 and 4/6 mechs with a high degree of success.
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It really depends on the loadout, piloting a wulfen requires a bit of a skilled touch because of its heat/loadout. Its a great skermisher but its fighting style always felt niche to me, excelling at sniping and hit and run tactics, closing in is usually met with realizations of bad life choices as the wulfen gets taken out.
Best way to use a wulfen? Fight like an inglorious bastard.
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Yeah, its a light mech . . . just the tech changes just make it more survivable on the modern battlefield than say a old 3025 Locust. Its going to have to pick off around the edges just like the skirmisher as described. Like I said the one time I got to use one the Stealth & speed let me slide along the edge of the map using woods and elevation changes to keep the TH mods up high. Then I was past the flank which had a Thunder Stallion and a 4/6 heavy . . . which it dropped. Throw on that once you are in your fighting range, if you need to turn off the Stealth you could (if table rules also) switch that ECM over to Ghost Targets.
But yes, I think it does come down to the types of battles . . . do you use DB? do you fight in a phone booth or spread across several square klicks? The Wulfen is also one of the more survivable scouts, which will matter if you use that sort of game. Is there anything in the backfield you can send it after- hidden LRM launchers? on table artillery units? reloading sites? HQ vehicles/structures? bridges? If fighting in a campaign, then its ability as a skirmisher is so solid IMO it would be okay picking off any retreating cripples forced into withdraw.
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Throw on that once you are in your fighting range, if you need to turn off the Stealth you could (if table rules also) switch that ECM over to Ghost Targets.
But yes, I think it does come down to the types of battles . . . do you use DB? do you fight in a phone booth or spread across several square klicks? The Wulfen is also one of the more survivable scouts, which will matter if you use that sort of game. Is there anything in the backfield you can send it after- hidden LRM launchers? on table artillery units? reloading sites? HQ vehicles/structures? bridges? If fighting in a campaign, then its ability as a skirmisher is so solid IMO it would be okay picking off any retreating cripples forced into withdraw.
I would like to see about the movement charts because for the speedsters it really does help.
So, for the move charts...
Max Tech Expanded Move Chart is:
0-2 = 0
3-4 = +1
5-6 = +2
7-9 = +3
10-13 = +4
14-18 = +5
19-24 = +6
25+ = +7
Whereas Total Warfare has:
0-2 = 0
3-4 = +1
5-6 = +2
7-9 = +3
10-17 = +4
18-24 = +5
25+ = +6
which eats an entire point of movement modifier compared to the old maxtech chart.
And yeah. Generally I tend to play on 45x45 hex battlefields or bigger. I don't much care for the 1-4 standard mapsheet phonebooth, which really leaves you no options for movement or approach even when we're not talking about a fast light, much less a speedster like the Wulfen.
Ghost Targets, I try not to rely too much on anymore. MegaMek hasn't caught up with the errata, so they still retain their former effectiveness there, but the way it's been errattaed it's not much use for the Wulfen anymore (unless it's only fighting one foe, I guess?) and I try not to rely on it.
Foxx is a huge fan of doubleblind because he likes being cheeky, whereas I'm not as keen on it, but it's what gets played, so I deal. Sensor Rules help. Active Probes are love.
I do wish it had Chameleon LPS instead of Stealth Armor (yeah, the bonus isn't as potent but the heat isn't as punishing) like the Original Phantom fluff hinted at it having (and I've played phantoms with CLPS, love them as Wulfen partners)
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Me? Cheeky!? Never! Next your gonna spread the lie my cereal cuts the roofs of children's mouths!
Db makes mechs like the wulfen more fun to play
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Db makes mechs like the wulfen more fun to play
I'd disagree. most maps that have the amount of cover needed to make Double Blind matter much, also tend not to have clear firing lines long enough to take advantage of the ERLL. They also tend to inhibit movement speed, further hindering the Wulfen unless we can talk someone into implementing the Alpha Strike style "always gets max move modifier" rule.
No, most of the time Double Blind just means it takes longer to find each other and get into combat.
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The way DB works (i.e. not revealing movement even if that movement took place within line of sight but ended outside of it) means that fast Lights can exploit even infrequent cover or blocked sightlines to become effectively invisible when they're not shooting and end up wherever they want fairly unmolsted.
It only takes a trio of level 1 hills to make a Light 'mech utterly invisible (going prone is free!).
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Well if we also had actual ridges or valleys it would also matter- flanking by running off to the side out of sight. I also like it in cities where the Wulfen's high walk makes it safer to move through the urban canyons. Was there a PAC version?
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Well if we also had actual ridges or valleys it would also matter- flanking by running off to the side out of sight. I also like it in cities where the Wulfen's high walk makes it safer to move through the urban canyons. Was there a PAC version?
No, but I did use a PAC/2 to accomodate a NARC on a prime styled configuration like MWDA had.
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How hard was it and the Warwolf to put together?
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How hard was it and the Warwolf to put together?
99.95% of my experiences are megamek ^^;; I don't remember the warwolf being difficult, and I haven't got a Wulfen mini
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So I played around last night with a veteran Wolf Empire nova against a secondline mixed regular Falcon binary. My situation in the battle suffered from losing initiative, though Princess played a good Falcon berserker. The battlefield was a 4x4 with Falcons on N edge and Wolves on the S, a single level 4 hill in center left with smaller hills for 'rolling hills' type set up. Heavier woods were also to the western edge and a more open area was to the SE.
Wolf Empire-
Savage Wolf A
Warwolf C (LPL & 2 ATM9)
Wulfen H
Mad Dog III C
Centurion Omni (Plasma Rifle version)
Black Wolf (ERSPL)
Elemental (APG)
Clan Med BA Rabid
Clan Med BA Volk
Salamander
vs
Jupiter
Thunderbolt IIC
Flamberge 3 (UAC/20)
Jade Hawk
Gyrfalcon 1
Eyrie
Pinion
Arbalest
Mad Cat Mk III 1
and another med or heavy, I cannot remember which
The Wulfen with Stealth on went up the west flank, dropping the Black Wolf behind the major hill to screen it from long distance plinks. The three heavies led up the middle with the Cent-O behind them. All the BA was dropped off in a rough line east of the major hill when the heavies were at long range- opened up the torso mounted ATM & LRMs to contribute to the large type lasers. Then I started losing init. When the Wulfen had bypassed the Falcon's main line but since the Bot won init it had a few units left to play with . . . and so the Mad Cat Mk III with a vet or elite pilot (random skill rolls) tried chasing down the Wulfen. The Mad Cat III missed with everything while the Wulfen landed a HML punch to the medium's arm. The Wulfen managed to slip behind the Jupiter to pound it with Stealth Armor off, ECM to Ghost Targets- opened the RA and ding'ed the back.
The biggest problem was the Savage Wolf took a 2nd head hit as the Falcon line got into mid range, needed a 5 to stay awake, rolled 4 . . . KO, automatic fall. Good bye mobility . . . The BA managed to rip the Gyrfalcon up from massed SRM strikes, crippling it . . . and then all of them but the Elementals went on to reap a series of leg crippling damage in attacks. If I had abandoned the Savage Wolf for the other Omnis of my line to retrograde the Falcons would have been crippled in the legs which would let my ERLL, LRMs and ATMs to dictate the engagement.
Even with the bad luck over the Savage Wolf and the init problems the battle likely would have ended with a crippled Jupiter as the last mech standing- mostly because it would have been too slow. If it had come after the BA it might have been different since if it got in range they could have gone for the legs.
At the time I called it the Warwolf was missing its LPL arm and a ATM9, shooting through about half the ammo, most of it closer ranged stuff. The Mad Dog III had worked through half the ammo, had some really weakened armor and taken damage to a leg (3/5/4 speed) but with a 2/2 pilot it was able to pass mobility rolls. I had also lost a single BA suit when the trooper got punted by a heavy. They had shot through all their SRM ammo making them mostly spent.
The Falcons were in pretty bad shape . . . the Arbalest was cored, Gyrfalcon had leg damage and lost a side torso (making it easy meat) before the XL took another hit, Flamberge died to engine death, and the one I cannot remember lost its head- blown off. Thunderbolt IIC had lost a side torso, its legs torn up by leg attacks and it took a final bit of engine damage to kill it. The Jupiter had lost a arm, taken 2 pilot hits and overheating. The Jade Hawk had lost ATMs and the Partial Wing IIRC with leg damage. Eyrie had its torso opened up. The Pinion had taken leg damage. Mad Cat Mk III had lost some armor but was probably in the best condition outside the Pinion which was pristine except for the leg damage slowing it.
Its possible the Wolf forces could have won but the rest of the mechs would have been lost and it would have come down to the BA playing tag with surviving Falcon Mechs, the Jupiter being the big problem. Not bad for being outmassed and giving the Falcons 5k+ BV. Should have left the Savage Wolf on the ground, it never got up anyway as the Bot went for overkill.
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You know, looking at it I think the AP Gauss or Med Chemical Lasers are the best weapons for the Wulfen to be equipped with in a furball- low heat, decent range to be used by the Wulfen's speed, and a respectable amount of damage.
Actually makes me wonder about a Phantom H with Small Chem Lasers.
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I admit that my own experiences with the WarWolf are somewhat skewed. Whenever I try to use one, they usually end up dying humiliating (but hilarious) deaths through freak dice attacks, like the time that one had its head popped off by an iHGR at a stupid long range 10+ to hit roll. Or when a Warwolf H had both of its iHLLs detonate in the same turn. Ouch. And then there's the infamous Pudding Wolf...
So in short, good on paper, terrible luck skewing results.
I did have one show up as a bad guy in the AToW game I run, but the PCs managed to dick around it and avoid getting in a direct fight with it. Although that lead to one of the PCs getting an inadvertent arch-nemesis, so it was beneficial to the game as a whole. The downside is that meant the Lobo ended up being more improtant to the plot then the Warwolf was...
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Yeah, the Warwolf fared pretty well initially. It was getting attention from ATM armed mechs and the Gyrfalcon, so reducing the damage and LAMS worked pretty well. Still not sold on the reactive armor but considering it will be fighting the Leaguers (LRMs, UACs & LGR) and Lyrans (ACs! Gauss Rifles!) as well as Falcons it should work out pretty well . . . especially if it hunts mechs and tanks armed with those sort of systems.
Mine got gimped in one turn- lost both the LPL arm and the ATM9 on that side. By that point it had shot through 60%-70% of the ammo and all of the HE.
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Reactive Armor takes half damage from artillery and missile weapons. You're thinking about Ballistic-Reinforced armor, which takes half damage from ballistic and missile weapons.
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Then MM might be broke, I would swear it had the LBX pellets doing nothing- though I could have been thinking about the Ferro-Lam on the Savage Wolf. I will have to check . . . really but it should work for ballistic as well . . .
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It intentionally does not. (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=36098.0)
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I love the warwolf, used one to embaress the surat out of a tomahawk. Its a great skermisher and shoes the wolfs got tired of the dominions macross missile tactics.
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I prefer the B, but I feel bad about using them in pick-up matches. The most effective behaviors with the mech, namely picking away at your foe at top speed while maintaining range, it's not a particularly FAST technique, nor is it the most fun to fight against. Thus I prefer doing it in games against the bot, or against an OpFor who is playing with the full knowlege that the fight isn't intended to be 'fair'. I've also adopted the position of using the Stealth Armor only as an out-of-combat feature, i.e. while advancing to the fight, scouting, or retreating from a threat the wulfen is inappropriate to face.
It also helps that I am a BIG fan of certain optional rules like Extreme Range, Kinder MASC/SC, and MaxTech Move Charts. In vanilla TW, I expect it would be a little less amazing.
It's not my first choice for a clanlike fight. It is however, useful, on the ever-unclanlike battlefields of the inner sphere. Bottom like, if you want a stand-up fight, give me a moment to requisition an adder. if you refuse my batchall, well, here comes the Wulfen to sniff you out and snipe at you.
But, even more than the questionable choice of pairing an XXL heat hog with Stealth Armor, what bothers me about the Wulfen is that the old fluff prior to the release of the wulfen indicated that it was built to partner with the warwolf, and that seems to have fallen by the wayside. Likely because it's damn hard to incorporate a NARC onto that mech the way MWDA had it
They may have been intended to work together, but only 1 of the 3 MWDA Wulfens had the NARC-equivalent and even that one started with Artemis V special equipment instead.
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My knowledge of. The mwda figure is all sarna. I was fed up by the time it was released, no longer playing
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For giggles, I tried Alaric's Returned Trial of Position fought against Colton's Demons Command Lance- Colton in her Axeman 1N (4/4), Caeser 3R (3/5), Dervish 6M (4/5) and a Blackjack -2 (4/5) against Alaric (2/4) in his Timberwolf A. Fought on a 32x32 map, (2x2 of traditional maps) with a few gullies, some woods, a hill or two and lots of open. The bot was very aggressive . . .
Unlike Alaric, I went for the Caeser first since it had the Gauss Rifle . . . and I would be fast enough to keep away from the AC/20. It got knocked down as I proceeded to hit every armored location, avoiding hitting the open torsos even with MPLs and SSRMs. Its fall meant the faster Dervish took up point, and so while trying to crit the Caeser with MPLs and SSRMs I fired the ERPPC at the Dervish . . . which blew the head off- 1 kill. The remaining three then used a gully (string of -1 hexes) to try to chase me down. Started chipping away at the Axeman when it was a easier shot, but the armor was getting worn and the Caeser put another gauss slug into my open RT . . . to crit the SSRM ammo- it always happens to me on this config. So I lost a side torso and half my long range firepower and was slowed for the next turn to 4/6. Broke past the end of the gully after giving the BJ-2 a face of MPL while I tried to avoid the SSRMs . . . especially since my CT was also now open. Ran for the woods and circled the Demons keeping my left side to them. Before I plunged into the light woods hex, the ERPPC finally connected again on the Caeser's CT which had avoided crits the 2 times my MPLs had hit it earlier. Caeser is gutted and falls to the turf- 2 kills. Which leaves the Axeman and Blackjack chasing me from the center of the map. I put some distance on them and then went back to walking to keep the heat down and let them close up again a bit. MPLs were doing half damage due to extreme range, but I ended up duplicating Alaric's shot on the Blackjack, a ERPPC blowing off the leg through damage. It fell but was technically still in the fight . . . which left the Axeman, and I then brought it down with a ERPPC to the CT to open that location and MPLs to get the engine & gyro crit. The Bot tried to get it to stand and it kept falling until blacking out. Surgical MPLs gutted it . . . and fight over, 4 kills.
Timberwolf A- 81 armor left, 64 internal and half the mech shot away.
BV2 the fight was roughly 4500 to a bit over 6k.
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Hello fellow Wolves,just checking in to see if everyone still around.I see the IlClan book is still not out yet,so we are still in limbo.I will check in in about another 5 months (post) to see if we are still around.I am still building my Wolf Empire forces with all the Tomahawk II variants and hope they start making Wulfen variants as well.And we nee the BlackWolf Battle armor.
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Yup. Standing guard, waiting for my chance to leap past the fortress walls and claim what lies within. :D
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Yup. Standing guard, waiting for my chance to leap past the fortress walls and claim what lies within. :D
The last star league twinky!
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Hello fellow Wolves,just checking in to see if everyone still around.I see the IlClan book is still not out yet,so we are still in limbo.I will check in in about another 5 months (post) to see if we are still around.I am still building my Wolf Empire forces with all the Tomahawk II variants and hope they start making Wulfen variants as well.And we nee the BlackWolf Battle armor.
It is cold on Ark-Royal this time of year.
And my distant cousins are breaking things, peeing in people's front yards, and embarrassing the family name... so to speak.
Life goes on.
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It is cold on Ark-Royal this time of year.
And my distant cousins are breaking things, peeing in people's front yards, and embarrassing the family name... so to speak.
Life goes on.
Just remember when the turkeys bring ragnarok to Arc Royal, you had your chance to rejoin the winning pack.
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Kind of hard to survive when you get hit with the Axe of Fiat.
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While rereading some of the novels detailing the Crusader Wolf novels invading the Republic, Marik-Stewart and lastly the Lyrans I got to thinking about some of what Alaric might have done.
He was given the task after the first peace with the Lyrans to rebuild the touman which he mentioned meant coming over all the salvage in their territory to find any equipment to field. It would also mean making that captured or salvaged equipment as capable as possible . . .
. . . so which IS mechs would benefit most from getting some (not all) Clan weapon upgrades. Playing with HMP I came up with a few easy candidates-
Shadow Hawk 7M- Pretty common from the RATs and a design that had been around for a while. While its equipped with a LGR to get some range . . . the Clan weapon weights the same but takes a single additional crit. The LRM rack on the machine never had enough ammo . . . but making it Clan cuts the weight letting you double the ammo and giving more mass over to Gauss ammo though I also tossed a half ton to improve the CASE to II. Swapping the ML for a IS or Clan ERML is of course a choice though I also left the SSRM2 alone- the LGR/LRM15 for a Clan GR/LRM15 was a big enough firepower change.
Wolverine 9M- Again, a common heavy skirmisher . . . to keep the punch but up the range of course you give it a cERPPC. I think the extra weight should go to replacing the single SSRM6 with 3 SSRM4 for all the crit fun.
Griffin 2N/3M/4R/6S- Flavors of PPC to Clan ERPPC for the punch. Missile launchers swapped for Clan spec and increases in ammo. The weird one not mentioned is the -5M LGR . . . blah, build it as a -3M arm for the ERPPC.
Rifleman 7M- Another common LGR design, pull the Lights and a pair of IS ERML (for crit space) in the arms to replace them with Clan Gauss and more ammo gives a weaker Glass Spider for secondary forces.
Scourge WF1- Found in the League, Republic and Lyran forces, its a updated Jinggau. Again, give it a Clan Gauss Rifle and replace the cluster of IS ERMLs in the right arm for Clan ones- with the AES that just gets more mean.
Archer 8M/9M/7S- Of course you are replacing the LRM launchers with Clan spec launchers, the question is if you keep the Artemis systems to increase the number of hits or just use the lighter weight nature to increase the throw wait. For the -8M I think you go with a Clan ERLL to replace the IS one.
Warhammer 8M/9S/10CT- Or even any old -7Ms still lurking from the original Clan invasion, very simply the PPCs of whatever flavor would be replaced with Clan ERPPCs. Not even sure any secondary weapons should really be upgraded.
Marauder 5S/9S/9M2/9W2- Just like the Warhammer, replace the ERPPCs or in one case ERLL with Clan spec versions which are the hammers they are armed with. In the case of the 5S & 9S the Gauss Rifle and LB-10X would be replaced with the respective Clan versions to increase ammo capacity. I would also think the 5S should be armored up to 9S specifications.
Any half-ton openings left would use RLs to bring them up to the list weight.
All of this would provide a very solid upgrade to the weapons in the hands of Wolf Clan warriors when they are settling into their new Empire. The replaced weapons could either be traded to the Sea Foxes to gain Clan-spec systems; used as spares for other salvage being reclaimed or spare inventory for pure IS equipment.
Of course they could always upgrade all the weapons to Clan spec like the 'C' refits of the 3050s, but I think in character/fluff it should be the primary weapon system- like ERPPCs for the Warhammers or LRMs on the Archers.
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To be fair to the Exiles, it's not like the Exiles could have predicted the events that occurred after the offer for reunification. I sincerely doubt that Seth Ward would have let the Exiles in on their plans to turn on the Lyrans, for starters, nor his intent to carve our the Empire. Nobody would have expected the Kuritans to hire Wolf's Dragoons, stripping much of the defense against Falcon aggression. And certainly Malvina's drive took everybody by surprise, especially given that the Falcons were supposedly still rebuilding from the Rending.
The Exiles were given a choice between maintaining their own independence and identity while remaining loyal to the nation that had harborured them for eighty years, or being subsumed into the same Clan that they had willingly divorced themselves from generations ago. Yes, they have nobody to blame for their situation but themselves, but at the same time, it's not like they could have expected that things would get this bad this fast.
In many ways, but turning on the Lyrans, gutting the forces involved in HAMMERFALL and devouring so much of their state, the Wolf Empire is responsible for the Exiles' current situation. If you want to blame anyone, blame them.
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They would not have to predict what Seth Ward would do, since I am referring to Alaric's "Come Home" offer, not the earlier talk of reunification. They would also have had a much better idea of the Falcon's intentions by that point. I am unsure how the Come Home Offer lines up with the dragoon departure time-wise.
And really, I can understand why the exiles might not return, but I really do not think they are in a good position to talk smack about the Imperial Wolves, is my point. a Wolf ilClan can do a lot more to stop Falcon predation upon the sphere than a dead Exile clan. Had they returned in greater numbers, they could potentially have served as the conscience of the wolf empire, and helped steer the clan.
Kindof silly to call another clan's successes embarrassing when you are so imperiled.
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Okay, in the case of the "Come Home" it's again an identity thing. The Exiles would once more lose their individual identity and culture, more likely seeing their units broken up and used to bolster Empire forces where possible. Their choice is "live as somebody else or die as yourself" and they seem to prefer the former.
After the WoR, the Wolves would never allow the Exiles to maintain a strong powerbase within a reunified clan. The lessons of the Adders and the Burrocks are proof as to why.
If anything, the Empire's turning on the Lyrans probably strengthened the Exiles' resolve to remain independent from the Wolves. Again, it's the loyalty thing; the Exiles had called the Lyran Commonwealth home for some nintey-odd years at that point. They're not going to turn around and join the Empire that's out and destroying that very same state.
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Eh, this has been done ad naseum . . .
Warden Wolves just feel hurt like the Nova Cats . . . when a large powerful warship is brought up because it is missing in 3145 books and we basically get told it was forgotten about but just consider it destroyed without any details. Its annoying.
Really I am waiting to see what Calamity does and if she took off some Warden Wolves.
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For that matter, I've been meaning to ask, which Wolf/Wolf In Exile warships just fell through the cracks like that?
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Full Moon, Potemkin . . . 'no yards' ended up being the BS. Funny considering their space station was able to rebuild the pair of Aegis & Fredasa, produces the Endo Steel both the Wolves and the Hounds need/use even after the Jihad, and built our Isegrims.
In fact the Isegrim fluff I have read indicates the Crusader Wolf ships were using the Warden station yards to repair their ships, b/c they had nothing functional in the OZ, as part of the collaborative effort against the Blakists.
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Just the Exiles' Full Moon?
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Yeah, everything else got smoked for 'reasons' in the Jihad. It probably would too, but I imagine it was forgotten there too . . .
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Full Moon, Potemkin . . . 'no yards' ended up being the BS.
The plan was always to strip the CWiE of their Potemkin - all my TO&Es I sent out during the Jihad had a special note on the Full Moon - this from the 3085 TO&E:
| Clan Wolf in Exile Navy | Class | Notes |
| Full Moon | Potemkin (Clan) | (*) Must survive Jihad |
Contrary to what some people believe - the fate of all warships during the Jihad was tightly controlled and approved by two people, the LD (Herb) and myself. I had full veto power over any unsanctioned death of a warship. :P
So feel free to blame me for all warships deaths during the Jihad - and up to and including 3145. :P
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Strikes me as strange that it was indicated to survive, just to vanish in the interim.
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Strikes me as strange that it was indicated to survive, just to vanish in the interim.
It was always intended to be traded off to the Sea Foxes, hence why it hard to survive :P
The Potemkin is a transport vessel, not an offensive warship in it's own right. It was mostly useless to the CWiE - espesially as a defensive weapon. The Sea Foxes could either turn it into an ArcShip, or for spare parts for the rebuilding of the ArcShips they did.
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Well, that's a better fate than I expected.
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Potemkins as a whole had to go, their ability to transport that many DS while armed like a SL battlecruiser was paradigm breaking.
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I admit a slight disappointment. I was hoping the Falcons would have blown it up.
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Potemkins as a whole had to go, their ability to transport that many DS while armed like a SL battlecruiser was paradigm breaking.
It would be Just The Thing, for somebody who needed to flee a doomed planet under fire though.
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Sure . . . and I can think of quite a few offensive and defensive uses for a Potemkin in a dropships=navy paradigm. When you can carry in 5 stars worth of Isegrims, Nagasawa, Titan, Miraborgs and other assorted PWS/Assault/Carrier DS it gets unpleasant . . . for the other guy.
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It would be Just The Thing, for somebody who needed to flee a doomed planet under fire though.
Assuming you'd get past the enemy blockade. And it'd be a once time use in what, 20+ years of conflict.
Better to have had a couple clusters of extra BattleMechs to fight during that period.
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Sure . . . and I can think of quite a few offensive and defensive uses for a Potemkin in a dropships=navy paradigm. When you can carry in 5 stars worth of Isegrims, Nagasawa, Titan, Miraborgs and other assorted PWS/Assault/Carrier DS it gets unpleasant . . . for the other guy.
Except you have to buy/build those ships, and maintain them. And when the enemy can use plain jumpships to deploy the same amount of PWS/Assault/Carrier DS.
Ground troops is what takes and holds planets, not warships. You need feet on the ground. And you don't have infinite resources (espesially not a restricted vassal like the CWiE).
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Yeah, load of crap but that writing has been on the wall for a while- what is funny is that it conflicts with 3145 material.
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Yeah, load of crap but that writing has been on the wall for a while- what is funny is that it conflicts with 3145 material.
How exactly does it conflict?
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He is postulating they did not have material, the implacation from 3145 is they do not have bodies.
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He is postulating they did not have material, the implacation from 3145 is they do not have bodies.
First up, he's also one of the writers who helped the very material we're discussing.
Second, check TRO3085. Post-Jihad, the Exiles were suffering chronic shortages of Clan-tech equipment. That's why they created the IS Tech Mangonel and mixed-tech Pack Hunters, and also part of why they were unable to restore their lost Mad Cat, Puma and Fenris production. That would also limit their ability to rebuild their forces, especially in light of the losses they suffered during the Jihad. They could have raised new Sibkos, yes, but those warriors wouldn't have had 'Mechs to pilot.
And that's before we look at events that occurred between 3085 and 3132, which are still not fully documented. They could have suffered other losses durign that time that they would have been unable to make up. For example, in 3099, the Exiles lost an entire cluster that were claimed by the Wolves. For all we know, they could have lost more.
Trading away a Warship that they had limited use for at the time for new material to help rebuild their forces and possibly even fix gaps in their production capabilities is a good deal.
The personell crunch doesn't occur until the 3140s, well after the point that they were suffering material shortages.
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So, I am looking at the Generic Clan 2858 RAT in Golden Century.
On it, the Orion IIc is listed at a 4 result, giving you an 8% chance of having an Orion IIc no matter what clan you are. Sure, usual disclaimers about RATs apply, RATs aren't absolutes, but they do have to generate a plausible force to be of any meaning at all. Do you think this means that the Wolves stance on the mech wasn't always one of exclusivity and that you'd only get one as an accolade came later?
or do we figure that it's non-indicative, and that it doesn't really speak that much towards the presence of the design in other clans?
Makes me wonder if at some point the decision to render it exclusive occurred and a series of trials ensued to reclaim possession of them or destroy them.
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More likely its a generified non-indicative RAT for a cheap PDF product. The use of the Orion IIC on the RAT is more likely there as a relatively generic Heavy 'Mech of the era rather then developing eighteen relatively similar RATs.
After all, the same RAT gives the Crossbow and Battle Cobra to every Clan when historically they're limited to the Vipers and Spirits
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Yeah, the presence of the Stone Rhino gave me similar pause.
I lean to the notion that the RAT in question isn't really all that handy for force building.
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Repeat after me (c'mon, you should know the words by now): RATS ARE THERE TO PROVIDE PLAYERS WITH A FAST MEANS TO GENERATE FACTION-FLAVORED FORCES FOR A GAME. THEY DO NOT DEFINE NOR ARE THEY PARTICULARLY INDICATIVE OF CANON.
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...that's me agreeing, actually. :D
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Problem with that is the RAT puts a mech in the force that is 'faction flavored' only if your a Wolf- and a special Wolf at that . . . so I would agree with Steve that it makes it somewhat useless for period flavor.
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I mean, it WOULD be pretty cool if there was a coordinated wolf initiative to hunt Orion IIcs down and repossess or render them irreparable... That'd potentially make for an interesting pre-REVIVAL Campaign.
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HAPPY WOLF EMPIRE FOUNDING DAY!
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Plopped something on the table I rarely get a chance to do so- a Dire Wolf Widowmaker done up in Savage Coyote's take on the 13th Wolf Guards from nearly 15 years ago.
The Widowmaker plodded across the map- maybe 20-25 hexes- with a few turns laying into Spheriod mechs with LPL and a ERPPC with the occasional shots of ERML & at the end UAC/20. After a Phantom stripped the armor of a Raven's leg, spotting for A4 Homing, and ally's IDF LRMs crippled the leg. The Widowmaker put it down at long range. A few shots to a Huron Warrior while it ran behind the next row of buildings, chasing the heavies that had fallen back in that gap. For the final three turns the Dire Wolf walked into the gap between buildings (targets disappeared), ran a left hook which put a Marauder 5S at 4 hexes (6s for UAC/20, missed!) and then plodded after the Marauder which jumped away to beat on the fallen Phantom. Finally tapped a Cataphract with the 20, missed the double but put the rest of the salvo except a ERPPC (only fired 1 for heat) into the lightly damaged Cataphract. A AC/20 hit, 2 LPL, ERML and ERSL makes it no longer 'lightly' damaged so a IDF LRM spread finished off the open torso for XL death.
Even being a 4/5, only way to get it on the table under the BV limit and have anything else to play, it still did a good job. It was the anvil to the Phantom & supporting lights hammer.
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I've played configurations similar to the Widowmaker and they are worth the BV....except when they're headshot on the first or second turn. *shakes his fist at an FGC or two*
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'A few Orion IIC BattleMechs traveled to the Inner Sphere with Phelan Kell's Wolves and remain part of Clan-Wolf-in-Exile's second line forces. However, no one seems to have plans to produce this 'Mech-a possible gesture of reconciliation by Phelan Kell toward the Wolf Clan.'
-TRO 3060
. . . what if the Warden Wolves had kept building a few Orion IICs like the Invasion & Crusader Wolves seem to have built them- a few a year. Makes me wonder if they were hand built even if the TRO entry says WC Aux Site #2 . . . tried to compare the parts to see if they used a lot of the same stuff the Timberwolf used in its construction but unless they have part names in TRO3050u which I do not have.
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Well, they both use the Series III OPT Targeting & Tracking system.
Some of the technologies are different generations though. like, the Comm Suite is a Khan Series Type 2c on the Timber Wolf, but a Khan Series Type 1 on the Orion IIc. Type W3 Endo Steel Structure on the Timber Wolf, Type W2 Endo Steel on the Orion IIc. Interestingly, the Armor Composition reverses that. Timber Wolf uses A-2 Ferro Fibrous, while the Orion IIc uses A-4.
The reactors are completely unrelated. Starfire 375XL versus Heavy Force 300 SFE.
Weapons-wise, it's ambiguous. all of the Orion IIc's weapon types are used on one configuration or another of the Timber Wolf. Gauss, SRM-4 on the B, ERLLs on the Prime and C, LRM-20 on the Prime. They COULD be the same models, they could be different. I doubt we'll ever really know. 3050u does not give models for the guns.
What strikes me, is that the Republic apparently builds some Orion IIcs and the respective clans wolf do absolutely nothing about it.
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Which, granted, is odd, but maybe they're meant for the small amount of Enclave Wolves?
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Given that the example we're aware of is "Burton Davion" unless Davion became a Wolf Bloodname when I was not looking, I doubt it.
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Huh, must've overlooked that.
Well, just one more of those inexplicable things that the Republic got away with then.
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The Republic doesn't build Orion IICs. The ones they have are veterans of Delta Galaxy that wound up in the RAF, and there's never been even the slightest indication that they build them. I'd love to know why you think the Republic builds them.
Burton's Orion IIC is your standard "named character custom 'Mech". It's been modified at some point, possibly by it's current MechWarrior, possibly not. It's main role is to give the player a cool "hero" unit for use in a scenario.
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The Republic doesn't build Orion IICs. The ones they have are veterans of Delta Galaxy that wound up in the RAF, and there's never been even the slightest indication that they build them. I'd love to know why you think the Republic builds them.
Burton's Orion IIC is your standard "named character custom 'Mech". It's been modified at some point, possibly by it's current MechWarrior, possibly not. It's main role is to give the player a cool "hero" unit for use in a scenario.
Well, since the product it's from was released under my embargo against products that don't advance the storyline or detail the pre-invasion clans, I'm admittedly relying on secondhand information here. I asked my friend who DOES have the product, from whom I got the impression in the first place. Apparently they were basing it on (A) Burton's custom, and (B) the fact that the ROTS RAT from that book gives a 11% chance at getting an Orion IIC. Which is a little strange, since what, a single frontline galaxy went over to the republic from the wolves? Just how many Orion IIc's could reasonably have been in Delta to begin with?
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180 Mechs in a 4 Cluster Galaxy.
60% Strength is normal in 3085.
Say 30% chance of a Heavy.
An 11%
So... 4 Orion IICs.
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Funnily enough, we had this exact same discussion about this exact same 'Mech just a page earlier.
It's a RAT.
It does not define canon.
It is not indicative of canon.
The Orion IIC appears on one RAF RAT for one part of a Historical publication that, you, by your own words, don't even own and haven't read to gage the context. All that means is that there are Orion IICs in the RAF. It does not define hard numbers.
Get over it.
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As a further annendum; canon sources give us a total of possibly two Orion IICs in RAF service. First is Burton Davion's 'Mech. The second is an ex-Steel Wolf Orion IIC from the Wolf Hunters novel which can be assumed to come from RAF stock (but is not explicitly said to be such). All that proves is that there are (were?) Orion IICs in the RAF.
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Yeah, Tal Sender who took it with him to join a merc group leading his star or binary and a binary of vehicles and some Elementals.
Wonder if the attitude is they are ok, but outside of that they track down.
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Thwere's never been a single indicator that the Wolves track or hunt down non-Wolf Orion IICs. Honestly, it's an excrutiatingly minor matter that would be a waste of valuable time and resources for some minor stocking point. This is doubly true in a huge envrionment like the Inner Sphere nad especially after the Blackout where there's no form of effective interstellar communication.
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But but... what about the factory on Terra that started making them in 3092 and has been successfully defeating Trials of Refusal from Clan Wolf ever since?
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I will give you after the Jihad they may not have but before that-
"Clan Wolf has jealously guarded the Orion IIC design, defending their exclusive right to it in Trials of Possession and refusing all proposed trades for other technologies, despite some generous offers. Like the Kerensky bloodheritages, Clan Wolf sees the Orion IIC as tied to their honor, as the guardians of Kerensky's legacy."
The fact that they let some from Delta join Stone as well as any the Republic may have inherited from Warden units or warriors that joined- or just plain salvaged from the Jihad- would add to your point that its value was slipping. Interestingly enough, the same seems to be applying to the Kerensky bloodname among the Crusader Wolves as of the Dark Ages.
But my questions were about the late 3050s and 3060s when the Wardens were setting up- a What If about it going more mainstream among the Wardens. For instance, would Crusader wannabes try to take Orion IICs as isorla from the Warden Wolves?
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It's an idea that works in theory with the closed environment of the Homeworlds and the very limited and formal nature of Clan trials and bidding. It completely falls apart in the Inner Sphere where you have a much larger environment and enemies that don't ask before starting a fight. Even before the Jihad, trying to track down and eliminate individual BattleMechs is an exercise in futility and a waste of precious resources.
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Which is why I said I can see it going by the wayside during & after the Jihad. It might also be linked to the waning power of the Kerensky Bloodhouse and lines among the Crusader Wolves.
Which is why I was talking more about the 'What if' of if the Wardens had started producing it more.
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It's not even by the Jihad. Even during and immediately after the Clan Invasion, the whole limited trial mindset becomes impossible to enforce. Between battlefield losses, salvage, raiding and so forth, tracking a single BattleMech becomes near impossible. The Wolves have more important things to worry about then tracking and eliminating individuals of some second line 'Mech, regardless of its perceived symbolic value. Doing such would be a waste of time and resources that are better spent on building and defending their OZ (Which the Wolves chronically mismanged anyway, but that's beside the point)
The waning of the Kerensky bloodname has nothing at all to do with the Orion IIC. At a guess, I'd say that it's due to the Wars of Reaving, the Jihad, and the effects both had on the Wolves' genetic stocks.
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Is the Kerensky bloodline waning? The last two saKhans have been Kerenskys (Garner and now Anastasia), and I'm pretty sure the latter is going to end up ilKhan. Even by the standards of that bloodline, that's not exactly a nadir.
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I'd vote Anna K. for ilKhan.
It was mentioned in FM3145 (I don't have my copy to hand for a reference, sorry) that the Kerensky bloodline had been in decline for some time. It had been producing smaller sibkos with high wash-out rates, with the note that this was happening across both Wolf clans.
While not out-right stated, I got the implication that Anastasia being Natasha's genetic daughter was an indicator of the problem. The Exiles being willing to use matertial from somebody who had been dead for nearly half a century flies in the face of usual clan thinking.
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Garner was written as a idiot . . .
. . . and Anastasia's bloodlines while Kerensky come from outside the Crusader Kerensky bloodhouse- they are Warden. Natasha's legacy may not be in use to the Crusaders due to Elias meddling, or she may have removed it period which would be why she gave a sample to Phelan as they parted. Regardless I do not see it being held in high esteem among the Crusaders. Ulric's offspring? Not likely among Crusaders, and the only one we ever know of that I recall was Katya who went to the Republic. Bonfire seemed to indicate that the Kerensky line had not been as powerful after the Jihad and that not many of the higher ranks were in Kerensky hands. In FM3145 the only other Star Colonel or higher ranked than the two mentioned would be Star Colonel Clifford Kerensky (9th Wolf Cavalry). Pretty sure in FMCC, and lol FMWC, I know in WCSB we had more Kerensky bloodnamed among those upper ranks.
And as I look . . . there are way too many Guards clusters as well unless Vlad or his successor was handing out that title like candy during the Jihad.
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Is the Kerensky bloodline waning? The last two saKhans have been Kerenskys (Garner and now Anastasia), and I'm pretty sure the latter is going to end up ilKhan. Even by the standards of that bloodline, that's not exactly a nadir.
Aha, got it. And I completely screwed up the reference.
Era Report 3145, pg 109, Ganrer Kerensky. "The Kerensky Bloodline has been on the decline for five decades ... fewer sibkos created each year ... those cadets who emerge fail to live up to the high standards established by the bloodline's pedigree... Garner Kerensky is a rare exception to the downward trend."
So yeah, that sounds like a withering bloodline to me. And as mentioned, Garner is no longer saKhan in 3150, which is pretty high on the Dull Surprise index.
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Aha, got it. And I completely screwed up the reference.
Era Report 3145, pg 109, Ganrer Kerensky. "The Kerensky Bloodline has been on the decline for five decades ... fewer sibkos created each year ... those cadets who emerge fail to live up to the high standards established by the bloodline's pedigree... Garner Kerensky is a rare exception to the downward trend."
So yeah, that sounds like a withering bloodline to me. And as mentioned, Garner is no longer saKhan in 3150, which is pretty high on the Dull Surprise index.
I blame Vlad. If he had just been more careful with that bottle of bleach...
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Screwing things up is what Vlad does best.
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Actually, I blame Ivan Kerensky. His use of reaving trials against certain bloodhouses left the Kerenskies open to reprisal. No one is to blame for the Kerensky house's downfall but themselves.
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how much of the decline though is just unrealistic expectations?
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how much of the decline though is just unrealistic expectations?
I'm sure there's some of that.
The main problems to me are the loss of so many genetics experts from the double blows of the Wars of Reaving and the Jihad, as well as the steadily decreasing genes used. The last time new genetics were infused into the genepool were with the creation of the Kell and Magnusson bloodnames - neither of which are Wolf (Empire) names - and I guess the illegal/secret inclusion of Steiner-Davion with the creation of Alaric Ward.
The Wolves should take to heart the idea of creating NEW bloodhouses for their crop of Spheroid warriors, if those warriors prove themselves worthy. New bloodhouses lead to new genes which leads to more diversity and will hopefully slow or stop the degradation of the bloodlines.
Or maybe that's all just smoke and their training sucks.
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From my research, the Wolf Empire's Mu Galaxy is an entirely new formation and not named for a previous (pre-Jihad/WoR) formation. Does anyone know of any references for a colour scheme for the Galaxy? CSO doesn't have any, and while i'm sure the answer is "none given", I'm just being thorough.
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I haven't heard of any yet. I guess just go with generic Wolf grey for the time being.
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2 month check in to see if anything is happening with the Wolves yet.Are we still in limbo?
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Anyone ever comb through WCSB to list the AFFC/Ras mech regiments captured/wiped out? Armor?
Also have to wonder how many JS & DS they captured as they moved forward.
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So, how 'bout that pic for ilClan's cover, of Devilin Stone versus Khan Ward?
The battle damage they're taking is something, but what's really interesting to me is that it appears there's a circle of equals around them. The Warwolf, Black Knight and... I'm not sure what the 3rd background mech is, but they are just standing around watching.
Does anyone recall how the Gencon Duel between Alaric and Devilin went? IIRC it was a wolf win, wasn't it?
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cleanup
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I am pretty sure the stone-is-arthur thing has been discussed to death elsewhere, and it was my impression that the word was that no, he is not.
Regardless of whether he is Arthur or not, he IS an old man with freezer dementia. So I imagine most of the tension would come from the twenty five ton disparity between Alaric's Savage Wolf and Stone's Atlas II.
I think the idea is more "two heads of state battling at the climax" than "this is a fair fight"
I would take, say, a 2/3 Savage Wolf Prime over a 3/4 Atlas II, even if we gave it the benefit of the doubt and used the Atlas II Kerensky (figure the head of the Republic can afford some clantech for a refit).
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So, how 'bout that pic for ilClan's cover, of Devilin Stone versus Khan Ward?
The battle damage they're taking is something, but what's really interesting to me is that it appears there's a circle of equals around them. The Warwolf, Black Knight and... I'm not sure what the 3rd background mech is, but they are just standing around watching.
Does anyone recall how the Gencon Duel between Alaric and Devilin went? IIRC it was a wolf win, wasn't it?
That middle mech looks like a Malice. It is interesting that there are Empire and Republic mechs making up the Circle of Equals. It might just mean there was a Trial for Earth ala Tukayyid. It might also mean that as of the moment of that Trial, the forces of the Empire and Republic have already merged and Devlin and Stone are settling who'll lead the new entity (presumably, the ilClan).
From my impression of the lore, Devlin Stone is actually Arthur Steiner-Davion, supposedly assassinated during the FedCom Civil War, but actually kidnapped by WoB and taken to Kittery, where he was held in a camp after the SLDF Eridani Light Horse and Nova Cat garrisons went off to fight the Civil War w/ Victor and the Blakists moved in after the dissolution and started the Jihad.
If Stone /is/ actually Arthur, then the lore does not paint him as a particularly elite Mechwarrior, but more of a political leader/strategist.
It doesn't seem like much of a stretch for a cunning trueborn to defeat an old man who largely spent his time with command staffs and military advisors.
Maybe I missed the context of the matchup, why this would be a real contest...
Whether he was once Arthur or not, he's now a different character. And as that new character, he's always been portrayed as a kicker of asses and taker of names.
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That middle mech looks like a Malice. It is interesting that there are Empire and Republic mechs making up the Circle of Equals. It might just mean there was a Trial for Earth ala Tukayyid. It might also mean that as of the moment of that Trial, the forces of the Empire and Republic have already merged and Devlin and Stone are settling who'll lead the new entity (presumably, the ilClan).
Ah, You are right, that is a malice. For some reason I'd been remembering that as bulkier. For a hundred tonner it doesnt look much bigger than that black knight.
If the context of the gencon battle is worth anything (and I suspect it is) this fight is concurrent with the rest of the battle for unity city at the climax of terra's conquest. My guess as to why they have formed a CoE is that the republic is pushed into a corner, and stone knows the clan mind. Must figure his best chance for the republic's survival is to try for a one on one.
And I am pretty sure it is actually the Savage Wolf Alpha config that is being used there, since there are no rear-facing missile ports that I can see, and there's a trio of beams extending to the Atlas II. Best match is the A. Had been going off the established fact that Alaric tended to use the prime configuration. Could be the Charlie, but I would expect larger missile racks on that.
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I am pretty sure the stone-is-arthur thing has been discussed to death elsewhere, and it was my impression that the word was that no, he is not.
<snip>
I think the idea is more "two heads of state battling at the climax" than "this is a fair fight"
Yeh. Discussed to death is not the same as resolved. Ok, alot of players don't really care, but fictional characters do, and it would be a good thing, I think, if the truth was revealed.
I think it matters, but there are two questions, related to Aleric and Devlin that want a definitive answer, to wit the Lyran Succession, and Aleric's claim on the Archonship.
Devlin (actually Arthur?) defeating Aleric could mean more than just Terra, but also Tharkad.
This is why I'm claiming that there is a sign of a mysterious canon source out there guiding this that we, in the general public, might not be aware of, that doesnt have retroactive consequences on the timeline, /per se/, but might be significant to plotting storylines that don't create Alternate Universes any more than strictly necessary.
Does this make sense? It motivates my question, because the characters care.
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Yeh. Discussed to death is not the same as resolved. Ok, alot of players don't really care, but fictional characters do, and it would be a good thing, I think, if the truth was revealed.
my thought was more "a wolf chatterweb thread is probably not the place where it'll be definitively settled.
I would very much like for TPTB to definitively reveal in a sourcebook whether or not he was arthur and put the matter to bed, but Hard Facts and putting this sort of speculation to bed is not modern battletech's tendency.
Way too much work to find it, but I have memories of Herb outright saying that Arthur was not Stone, and that stone was just some new guy, no particular importance to his life before being Stone.
I think it matters, but there are two questions, related to Aleric and Devlin that want a definitive answer, to wit the Lyran Succession, and Aleric's claim on the Archonship.
Devlin (actually Arthur?) defeating Aleric could mean more than just Terra, but also Tharkad.
This is why I'm claiming that there is a sign of a mysterious canon source out there guiding this that we, in the general public, might not be aware of, that doesnt have retroactive consequences on the timeline, /per se/, but might be significant to plotting storylines that don't create Alternate Universes any more than strictly necessary.
Does this make sense? It motivates my question, because the characters care.
Wolves already won on Tharkad, and cared so little about it, that they only did so to tweak the falcons' collective beaks. They could have had that planet long before they have reached Terra.
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Wolves already won on Tharkad, and cared so little about it, that they only did so to tweak the falcons' collective beaks. They could have had that planet long before they have reached Terra.
I believe what Easy was getting at is Alaric's publicly outing himself as a Steiner and therefore implicitly placing a claim on legitimacy to the throne of the Commonwealth. Even if calling himself "Archon" started off as purely a Sheeple Management Tactic to maintain control over the Empire, it could feasibly expand into designs on the entire Commonweath (real or imagined).
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I believe what Easy was getting at is Alaric's publicly outing himself as a Steiner and therefore implicitly placing a claim on legitimacy to the throne of the Commonwealth. Even if calling himself "Archon" started off as purely a Sheeple Management Tactic to maintain control over the Empire, it could feasibly expand into designs on the entire Commonweath (real or imagined).
Yes, with the proviso that Aleric's mother, Katherine, was a Steiner-Davion, like Arthur, not Steiners like Peter and Adam. In other words, Devlin would be Aleric's uncle, but both would be Steiner-Davions and not Steiners like the /actual/ line of legitimate Archons Andrew, Melissa and Trillian.
The gut-shot to Aleric, in this matchup, is that Devlin (if Arthur) could, if the Secret Identities are exposed, <insert anxious dodge here>, Devlin can drive a stake in the heart of Aleric's bloodline claims on the LC, and, really, Clan Wolf, because his rivals would, undoubtedly, use that against him.
OR, Arthur really did die already, or something else happened.
Piqued my interest.
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Who cares about Tharkad though? Terra is far more important to the culture of the clans than some successor state capital.
If Alaric can secure Terra for Clan Wolf, hell, if he can just open the door to it, it wouldn't matter if he was three monkeys in a trenchcoat, he'd still have made them (or opened the door to becoming) the ilClan and any other factors would pale against that.
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Who cares about Tharkad though? Terra is far more important to the culture of the clans than some successor state capital.
Sigh. No, j/k. I'm not sure this is something all the Khans would agree with as a general policy of them all. I think there is a significant number of Clans who do not look at the legacy of the Terran Hegemony as something to recreate. After the Jihad, many Clans contributed to the Republic, so, maybe the Hegemony had the last laugh in a way. The Republic seems to treat the Clans pretty instrumentally, though. Does Devlin Stone recognize some kind of natural right to Terra, the way a Khan might? That might matter to an envious Khan.
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Actually, Trillian IS a Steiner-Davion. Its why she was sent to the FedSuns as an ambassador.
With that aside, I do not expect to see Trillian handing over the throne to Alaric just because of his claim. It IS interesting b/c it puts the Clans involved in a potential dynastic squabble.
I thought Devlin had a Atlas III? Looked up, nope its a II. I am not sure his version really has all that much more firepower than Alaric's Savage Wolf, all the Clan component versions and armored equipment kind of balances with the Wolf's Ferro-Lam armor. I thought he used a ATM version rather than the Prime, which would encourage them to close since he would actually outdamage the Atlas II with HE rounds.
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I believe what Easy was getting at is Alaric's publicly outing himself as a Steiner and therefore implicitly placing a claim on legitimacy to the throne of the Commonwealth. Even if calling himself "Archon" started off as purely a Sheeple Management Tactic to maintain control over the Empire, it could feasibly expand into designs on the entire Commonweath (real or imagined).
arKhan.
I will never not make this 'correction'.
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Actually, Trillian IS a Steiner-Davion. It's why she was sent to the FedSuns as an ambassador.
With that aside, I do not expect to see Trillian handing over the throne to Alaric just because of his claim. It IS interesting b/c it puts the Clans involved in a potential dynastic squabble.
Ok. Trillian is a Steiner-Davion, like Alaric, although I'll still suggest that most Lyrans consider Steiner-Davion the cadet branch, any more. Even still, Trillian's claim is legit, Alaric's is not, but does the Republic give less than two-tenths of a half of a crap about it? Magic 8-ball says no. Or Maybe. Or yes. Depends on how many times you ask, maybe.
About expecting the Lyran Succession to be settled by ANY Clan, one with the blood of a Steiner-Davion or not, especially KATHERINE, lol. I mean, I'm not here to pick a fight with Clan Wolf, if your getting that impression, but, Alaric-fans, how delusional do you have to be to even entertain the thought that any authority over any Lyran world can descend from Katherine.
Alaric can play the scourge, he may even take Terra and replace the RotS regime with one of his own.
He will never be Archon. General war would ensue, I tend to think, and would not end until he was dead and Clan Wolf had a new Khan with a mandate to keep his hands off of the LC.
This is all just idle speculation, though. We'll see what the new Line Devs will reveal.
I hope it happens before I'm over Steiner and on to something else, but, you know, don't give up the ship.
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Alaric's claim is just as good as Trillian's claim . . . its a matter of who controls the throne world and controls the most worlds.
You need to look at the period material more, if the Wolves wanted Tharkad they could have kept and if they wanted it now they could take it. Trillian's LCAF is in bad shape and they do not have the kroner any longer to hire mercs. She left one of her strongest allies to die off (supposedly) and endangered the biggest producer of war material her country has . . .
. . . granted she has not had a lot of options with those choices, but its what she decided to do.
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There are interesting details in FM3145.
The Empire is (as of 3145) an artificial construct. The Empire's touman has absorbed native sphereoids wholesale, and even then it's still woefully not enough to control all the worlds they already have, only the civilians' lack of offworld communication has prevented the Empire's forces from being bogged down by rebellions (pg 152). That could certainly mean that should Alaric want Tharkad, he's not in a position right now to take it and hold it.
However I think it's also clear that any designs on Tharkad would be for the immediate term moot. He wants Terra first and foremost. Now I find another quote from that same page in FM3145 to be a Chekov's Gun:
While [abandoning their lower castes in favor of enlisting sphereoids into the Clan] will certainly have repercussions in the long term, it has, like many of the Wolves’ recent actions, kept them fighting and winning—and, perhaps, if they keep winning, the long term might well take care of itself.
The Wolf Clan is, imo, soon to be a relic of the timeline's past and that quote is the tipoff. It's undergoing a transformation... and it looks to me like the writers are teasing the fans with what they're going to become. Probably the ilClan, perhaps in concert with or by merging with other faction(s). Or maybe they're about to merge with the Inner Sphere and quit being distinctly "Clan", as the Bears have already done and the Ravens are in the process of doing. Quite possibly: both. Then again, maybe that ominous sounding line isn't about to "go off" in the ilClan storyline and it isn't really a Chekov's Gun. I can't say; but I think it is.
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Alaric's claim is just as good as Trillian's claim . . . its a matter of who controls the throne world and controls the most worlds.
You need to look at the period material more, if the Wolves wanted Tharkad they could have kept and if they wanted it now they could take it. Trillian's LCAF is in bad shape and they do not have the kroner any longer to hire mercs. She left one of her strongest allies to die off (supposedly) and endangered the biggest producer of war material her country has . . .
. . . granted she has not had a lot of options with those choices, but its what she decided to do.
A very strong argument to make to a Khan. Unfortunately for Alaric, it's not the Khans he must convince, but the Estates General. If the Estates General would pull the rug out from under Archon Melissa, because they did not feel she was good enough to deal with the existential threat to the Commonwealth, how much less would they support the bastard son of Katherine Steiner-Davion, who was responsible for what many sources call the bloodiest war the LC and FS ever fought? This is the argument you make to everyone BUT the Khans.
But I understand some of the support for that point of view. The perpetual Occupation Zones of the Wolves and the Falcons engenders a sense that any world will simply lie down. Some would, but not as many as the map of the Inner Sphere would suggest.
You can question the views of human nature that these politics represent and second guess the intentions of the Line Devs, we all do. It's normal, but what you might really want is possession of the objective facts.
Committing to those objective facts can be hard and can produce anxiety. However, I think it's worth it.
Some disagree.
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The Estates General is a sop, Peter was made Archon after taking Tharkad and the power was transferred from Alessandro to the real Katrina through politics. He takes enough members, or any still on planet if he captured it again, and Alaric is declared Archon- who holds the capital, the building the Estates General meet in and a number of members.
Its the same sort of argument about why Katherine could not be First Prince- yet she held New Avalon and the throne, fait accompli. No matter that she did not meet the strict requirements of FedSuns law, she was First Princess for a time.
TDC, they brought a number of their civilians with them though no all. Its also not a matter of communication, Alaric's swift and harsh response to any rebellion will settle any attempts before they flare up. You can easily see that in the view of the youngest Halas-Marik, who flat out stated it was pointless trying to foster any rebellions on former League worlds because they were brutally crushed. It was better to target Lyran occupied worlds.
As for the Empire Touman and their positioning, they are a military encamped for movement. Alaric is trying units against the Remnant and Galatean League, with the bulk & best poised to charge for Terra when the Fortress is breached. They clearly state in FM3145 that its the chief strategic calculus in their deployments.
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There are interesting details in FM3145.
The Empire is (as of 3145) an artificial construct. The Empire's touman has absorbed native sphereoids wholesale, and even then it's still woefully not enough to control all the worlds they already have,
When I read FM 3145 I got the impression that the Lyrans, Suns, former & reformed FWL, Republic, and others were in a similar situation.
That could certainly mean that should Alaric want Tharkad, he's not in a position right now to take it and hold it.
However I think it's also clear that any designs on Tharkad would be for the immediate term moot. He wants Terra first and foremost.
I agree Terra is his likely primary goal, but the big thing stopping him from taking Tharkad is the Falcons and Malvina. The Falcons, and especially Malvina seem to believe the Lyrans are their private hunting grounds and would go berzerk if the Wolves took Tharkad. Alaric probably sees it as a waste of resources to capture and then defend from the Falcons.
A very strong argument to make to a Khan. Unfortunately for Alaric, it's not the Khans he must convince, but the Estates General. If the Estates General would pull the rug out from under Archon Melissa, because they did not feel she was good enough to deal with the existential threat to the Commonwealth, how much less would they support the bastard son of Katherine Steiner-Davion, who was responsible for what many sources call the bloodiest war the LC and FS ever fought? This is the argument you make to everyone BUT the Khans.
But I understand some of the support for that point of view. The perpetual Occupation Zones of the Wolves and the Falcons engenders a sense that any world will simply lie down. Some would, but not as many as the map of the Inner Sphere would suggest.
You can question the views of human nature that these politics represent and second guess the intentions of the Line Devs, we all do. It's normal, but what you might really want is possession of the objective facts.
Committing to those objective facts can be hard and can produce anxiety. However, I think it's worth it.
Some disagree.
I think that argument can be made if Trillian or Roderick is still around. Otherwise I think Alaric has as strong a claim as any with the Estates General. In fact, unless something drastically changes, I think all he has to do is beat down the LCAF some and demand his title of Archon. If not, the understrength forces will be left without an Archon to face down the Falcons and Leaguers. At that point, I think the Estates General would welcome the Wolves with open arms and the Alaric as Archon. Better to have a loose tie to their past than have one or both of their enemies tear them apart.
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Alaric's claim is just as good as Trillian's claim . . . its a matter of who controls the throne world and controls the most worlds.
You need to look at the period material more, if the Wolves wanted Tharkad they could have kept and if they wanted it now they could take it. Trillian's LCAF is in bad shape and they do not have the kroner any longer to hire mercs. She left one of her strongest allies to die off (supposedly) and endangered the biggest producer of war material her country has . . .
. . . granted she has not had a lot of options with those choices, but its what she decided to do.
Trillian did not desert her allies nor anger Vedet Brewster, that was Melissa's. Trillian is left picking up the mess that her cousin(?) created.
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He's talking about the Tamar Trap Trillian made of Hesperus II. The one where Trillian's forces just gave the Eridani Light Horse a big middle finger. I wonder what the ELH did to Trillian to merit such treatment from her. I guess Trillian is another psycho Steiner. *shrugs*
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He's talking about the Tamar Trap Trillian made of Hesperus II. The one where Trillian's forces just gave the Eridani Light Horse a big middle finger. I wonder what the ELH did to Trillian to merit such treatment from her. I guess Trillian is another psycho Steiner. *shrugs*
Her trap needed bait. She sacrificed mercs rather than Lyran citizens. Cold? Yes. Practical? Also yes.
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Her trap needed bait. She sacrificed mercs rather than Lyran citizens. Cold? Yes. Practical? Also yes.
Plus it was a good way for TPTB to remove ELH from the universe.
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Trillian seems pretty nice honestly. There are books where you can read her thoughts. Roderick and Trillian seem like good guys.
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Plus it was a good way for TPTB to remove ELH from the universe.
Which was the whole point along with breaking the Falcon-Horse alliance. But I was also referencing leaving the Warden Wolves out in the cold.
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On the Wolves leaving behind their lower castes:
Furthermore, while they took their best and
brightest scientists, technicians and merchants, the vast majority
of the labor castes—the people who actually ran things—were
abandoned as well.
The "vast majority" of the Clan's pool of support personnel were abandoned. It's a black and white fact, barring whatever unreliable authorship factor one wants to ascribe onto the quote. Yes the Wolves kept hold of their "best and brightest" of the lower castes, but what percentage can that possibly be? Objectively: the inverse of a "vast majority". The Wolf Empire probably retained enough lowercastemen to serve as a leadership cadre, but that leadership cadre is overseeing a sphereoid body of support personnel. And that's even before looking at how many sphereoid militiamen are rebranded as full-fledged Warriors (second line, but still Warriors) in the Wolf Touman.
The same "Wolf Empire" sub-chapter goes on to mention how the Empire has about as much infrastructure that can build Clan-spec as they did in 3050 when they overran the FRR: none. They can use captured academies to train/mint more sphereoid warriors. By implication, their trueborn birthing program is either on hold or restricted to their remaining WarShips. (although they surely have at least some sibko cadets mature enough for being put into the field, and the "best and brightest" of the scientist caste surely are caretaking a temporarily mothballed creche program)
On the Empire only holding on to the territory it has thanks to the chaos of the Dark Age:
With their military forces focused on external
conflicts, the Wolves will lack the numbers to enforce their
authority over the local populations, and they know it. If it wasn’t
for the Blackout creating an atmosphere of uncertainty, there would
probably already be rebellions in the streets.
So anyway what I've been saying over the last page or so is that the Wolf Empire is well on its way to being drowned in "sphereoidness". They don't have the infrastructure to maintain let alone expand their Touman (same page quotes the Wolf Empire as being dependent on the Sea Foxes to acquire any Clan-spec materiel) and they don't have the numbers, even with absorbing sphereoids wholesale, to maintain the reins of empire as only the chaos of the Dark Age (namely, the dire straits of their neighbors) is allowing their conquests to hold steady.
I envision that the Wolves don't have any intention of holding on to their "Empire" and are simply using the worlds as a staging point to leap at Terra. They'll either succeed in their "leap of faith" and become ilClan, or they won't. Someone's gonna be ilClan, so they're a better bet than most to become it. But if they do fail, having burned all their bridges to get to where they can make their leap of faith will at the very least strip them of their "Clan-ness" and best case scenario, become just another Inner Sphere rump state between the FWL and LC.
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Someone's gonna be ilClan,
Not necessarily....
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Not necessarily....
Touche. I too have occasionally argued (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=56971.msg1310176#msg1310176) that "ilClan" doesn't have to mean there will be an ilClan. But let's be real: it really looks like if one were to bet, the smart money would be on the ilClan storyline featuring someone becoming ilClan rather than the name for the age being an ironic dysphemism for an age of conflict that have their roots in someone's failed attempt to become ilClan.
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:-X
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"Terra awaits us" ...
IMHO this will be the core of get the status of the ilClan. Who of the Clans owns Terra, will be ilClan.
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Whoever can fight off enough Trials Of Calling Bull **** will actually be the ilClan. If the Falcons decide they're the one true remaining legacy of the Clans, the only true Clan left, and all the others are to be Annihilated, well...all hail the Green Turkey.
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5th Succession War will just be the clans fighting endless trials of refusal as they all try to land on terra. It will last 50 years.
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I just love the way the gathering place for fans of clan wolf always seems to be full of its detractors. If anybody knows where I can find where the people who actually LIKE Clan Wolf and want to talk about something other than how they'll never win terra, and taking terra doesn't mean anything anymore, and the ilclan was always a myth of your fevered imagination, Please, PM me so I can join up.
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Well, I like Clan Wolf. I even think they can take Terra. I just worry about them being able to HOLD it. Because if the Wolves take Terra, the Jade Falcons will lose their **** and thus Refusal War 2.0. Depending on how badly they're hurt by that, a spheroid power will look to take advantage of the Wolves.
Given the weakened state of the Council of Six (let's be honest, thanks largely to the Wolves themselves), the Clan of Kerensky will have to work extraordinarily hard to promote Clan unity, which will be their best chance of curbing aggression by the Great Houses.
My two cents at least.
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Not necessarily....
Someone's gonna be THE ILLEST CLAN! WITH SICK MOVES YO!
...okay, I'll stop.
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Out of all the clanners, the wolves have the best chance of being accepted as some kind of leader if they do take Terra, since they have a leader who seems to be able to make a claim for one of the succession house thrones. He could theoretically claim to be the successor lord to claim the title of First Lord. If he can convince everyone he has a legitimate claim to both inner sphere and clan power, he could, potentially, go very far with it.
That wouldn't be nearly as funny as the clans being locking into decades of trials of refusal as none of them are willing to accept the results though.
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Let us not forget that Alaric, the hero of the Wolves, is a lying, matricidal sociopath who deliberately let his predecessor die so that he could become Khan.
Oh and by 3150, Anastasia Kerensky is saKhan, and she knows enough to bury him - and has an amazing track record of command decisions to boot.
Have fun guys
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Let us not forget that Alaric, the hero of the Wolves, is a lying, matricidal sociopath who deliberately let his predecessor die so that he could become Khan.
Oh and by 3150, Anastasia Kerensky is saKhan, and she knows enough to bury him - and has an amazing track record of command decisions to boot.
Have fun guys
If the POV presented in Bonfire of Worlds is accurate.. he didn't "let his predecessor die"... he flat out murdered him and blamed it on "Loki agents that were totally lurking in the area".
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If the POV presented in Bonfire of Worlds is accurate.. he didn't "let his predecessor die"... he flat out murdered him and blamed it on "Loki agents that were totally lurking in the area".
Totally forgot that, yeah. It's been a while since I read Bonfire
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Of course, no one really knows that...
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Let us not forget that Alaric, the hero of the Wolves, is a lying, matricidal sociopath who deliberately let his predecessor die so that he could become Khan.
Oh and by 3150, Anastasia Kerensky is saKhan, and she knows enough to bury him - and has an amazing track record of command decisions to boot.
Have fun guys
Killing Katherine is self-defense as he told her while she died. Katherine killed her mother, tried to kill Victor several times and as Alaric may know of the rumors about Authur that could be factored in. Its not a stretch that she would kill her offspring if they got in the way of her access to power. Even if she had not tried to kill him to 'rule in his name' she would have been constantly interfering to do what she though best which never works in any society but would be worse among the Clans.
Anastasia as a character was nearly ruined by the Proving Grounds trash- widely acknowledged as three of the worst MWDA novels- and that left successive novels to try to recover her character to what was presented in the first book.
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Killing Katherine is self-defense as he told her while she died. Katherine killed her mother, tried to kill Victor several times and as Alaric may know of the rumors about Authur that could be factored in. Its not a stretch that she would kill her offspring if they got in the way of her access to power. Even if she had not tried to kill him to 'rule in his name' she would have been constantly interfering to do what she though best which never works in any society but would be worse among the Clans.
Anastasia as a character was nearly ruined by the Proving Grounds trash- widely acknowledged as three of the worst MWDA novels- and that left successive novels to try to recover her character to what was presented in the first book.
Even then, Alaric was killing a hundred year-plus old woman obsintently in self-defence, even when he had repeatedly demonstrated that he was storng enough on his own to overome her influence. To me it came off more as some insane 'fulfil my own destiny, compelte the circle' thing of parent killing with his own attempts at self-justification after the fact.
Besides, there's still the whole "Kill the Khan to become the Khan" thing going on. What Alaric did was a massive violation of clan law.
And regardless of how you feel about the Proving Grounds novels, they are still canon, and the events in them still happened and have been referenced mutliple times since. You can't just say 'doesn't count'. And even then, Anastasia has demonstrated that whoever she's leading, they are secondary to her own needs and goals.
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Of course, no one really knows that...
Whether or not anyone else in-universe knows may yet be a surprise to be revealed.
But even if someone doesn't bring that deed against him, the point stands that the Wolves' Khan is exactly the sort to expend anything or anyone to get what he wants. That could bode poorly for the Clan's long term prospects if he's put in a tough spot. It doesn't necessarily mean it WILL portend ill for the Wolves... just saying it could: as I pointed out FM3145 seems to portray the Wolves as walking a tightrope between disaster and greatness.
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This is Clan Wolf we are talking about - they are pragmatists.
A Clan that ignored one of their leaders shooting an unarmed prisoner in the face and drawing a circle around him calling it a "circle of equals". (Phelan Ward's coldblooded murder of Conal Ward).
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Did you not know?
"Primary objective: Shooting, secondary objective (if ever): draw the circle"
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Besides, clan rules only really apply if someone who didn't lose objects to their lack.
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Anastasia as a character was nearly ruined by the Proving Grounds trash- widely acknowledged as three of the worst MWDA novels- and that left successive novels to try to recover her character to what was presented in the first book.
Not gonna lie, seeing her someday die, is a strong factor in why I want the plot to move forward again. I think Devlin Stone is the only character I'm looking forward to seeing dead more than her. Malvina in third place. I would be a happy man if any two of those three fell at Alaric's hand.
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Funnily enough, I'm the opposite. I'd love to see Alaric dead by the hand of Anastasia, Malvina or Devlin.
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I was under the impression you were far more of a falcon fan. I'm not exactly surprised that you want to see a degenerate lunatic, a falcon or a spheroid kill the wolf khan.
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I'm just as much a Republic fan as I am a Falcon one. And I also legitimately really do like Anastasia Kerensky.
But I would like to see Devlin Stone, Malvina Hazen or Anastasia Kerensy kill a matricidal sociopathic manipulator who murdered and lied his way to the Khanship.
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Since Malvina's possible death is mentioned, the only probable killer I would like to see doing it is Cynthy.
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Anastasia only comes off with lunacy in those three books, which is why I said everyone since has tried to salvage the character from the mustache-twirls. I feel like later books, where she leads the Wolf Hunters and in Bonfire the character returns to what was presented in her first appearance. Deadborder, I never said they would disappear- they are canon as stated, but IMO did a disservice to all characters presented since Tara Campbell was also poorly portrayed. I liked the character Tassa Kay was initially as I felt it was a good balance of fiat & realism.
Alaric's killing of Seth is IMO the ultimate expression of 'might makes right' as he was able to do as he pleased and successfully springboard off of it. Just like Malvina can be interpreted as the eventual evolutionary path of the Crusader mentality, Alaric is the definition of might for the time period.
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Bonfire of Worlds is my favorite book.
Malvina is enough crazy for the galaxy. They don't really need Anastasia to be a psychopath.
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as for the earlier discussion about stone's identity, an unrelated search for files turned up this screenshot I knew i took:
Devlin Stone is nobody special (http://restless.mechadynamics.net/11_30_2013.png)
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as for the earlier discussion about stone's identity, an unrelated search for files turned up this screenshot I knew i took:
Devlin Stone is nobody special (http://restless.mechadynamics.net/11_30_2013.png)
TPTB has said this dozens of time, but people seem to think they have been lying :P
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TPTB has said this dozens of time, but people seem to think they have been lying :P
*tinfoil hat* It's a CONSPIRACY I tells ya! *tinfoil hat*
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TPTB has said this dozens of time, but people seem to think they have been lying :P
I'd argue that it's because having to rely on forum posts for the revelation is perhaps the least efficient way of doing so. It would be far better known if we had a published source making it clear.
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If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
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Question for something I'm working on. What would you consider to be the weakest of the Wolf Empire Galaxies? Not just in terms of raw numbers, but also equipment, troops, morale and so on.
Two suggest themselves to me. The first is Kappa; while it's an 'old' Wolf galaxy, it's mostly green troops and vehicles, and has spent much of the last few decades as the Bears punching bag. On the other hand, Mu is a new galaxy. It has mech, albeit salvaged ones, but is one gigantic mess of morale and loyalty issues
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I'd say Mu. Because it creates a lot of character and story interest. Also, you get to argue over whether to pronounce it 'moo' or 'mew'.
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I'd say Mu. Because it creates a lot of character and story interest. Also, you get to argue over whether to pronounce it 'moo' or 'mew'.
There is that.
I just wish it had a colour scheme. Based on the unflattering name of is Keshik cluster, I assume that it's some sort of Sandy yellow, but who knows?
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Gotta be Mu, surely? FM: 3145 pretty much describes them as a failure. I'd: this is the worse case scenario when you recruit from among Freebirths
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I'd: this is the worse case scenario when you recruit from among Freebirths
And then you'd wonder why Star Commander Booger won his trial!
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/C0H1UIhpoHA/maxresdefault.jpg)
TT
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Arise, thread! Seriously, Wolves, step up your gme. ;D
I'm building a Wolf Cluster for a project. This won't ever all hit the field at the same time, so the most of any given thing I'm going to need is however much will typically see the field in a Trinary or so sized game. Things can be rearranged before game time, so I won't need to have a 'representative' number of something like Timber Wolves, just one or two. What I'm interested in some commentary on is: what's missing? What kind of gaps in traditional Wolf tactics or strategy is this unable to fulfill? The lineup so far:
Omnis:
Tomahawk II
Executioner
Gargoyle
Savage Coyote
Warwolf (x2)
Timber Wolf (x2)
Summoner
Linebacker
Wulfen
Non-Omnis:
Marauder IIC
Orion IIC
Warhammer IIC
Rifleman IIC
Highlander IIC
Jaguar (x2)
Vehicles:
Carnivore (x4)
Mars (x2)
Ares (x2)
Asshur (x2)
Odin (x2)
Svantovit (x2)
Eldingar (x2)
Infantry (five points each):
Clan Medium
Corona
Warg
Gnome
Salamander
Aerospace:
Sabutai (x2)
Visigoth (x6)
Turk (x6)
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For the 3050 time frame I would recommend the Ice Ferret and Dire Wolf.
If you can justify fighting the Smoke Jaguars probably a Stormcrow. But an Ebon Jaguar would be great.
is the 6th Wolf Guards formally SJ 6th Jaguar Dragoons? So one or two Smoke Jaguar mechs might make sense. If you really want a Turkina, Black Lanner, or Night Gyr you can use the same justification. 6th Dragoons as the Smoke Jaguars and Jade Falcons did exchange mech designs. Finally, maybe a Shadow Cat.
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Ah, I should mention, this Cluster is for 3145+. That's the intended "Use by" date, though dropping a few of the more recent toys should get a decent 3050 force too.
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I see the specialists . . . but where is the regular Elementals? And since I see secondline gear . . . GDL Surats?
For mechs . . . missing some Coyote cast-offs besides the SC, what about the Savage Wolf?, Ice Ferret, Phantom (too big a fan of the H),
Secondlines . . . Night Wolf, Mad Cat Mk II, Sun Cobra, Tundra Wolf, Blood Reaper, maybe the odd Ghost Bear or JF unit like Arcas or Thunderbolt C, and something to represent the Orion C or whatever? Might also think about the cream of LC & FWL as Hammerfall etc salvage.
Armor . . . Morrigu of all stripes, Zoyras are great for AA & ECM, Demo C, Kelswas, maybe some Gurtis as salvage, Schilds?
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I should further clarify: Everything I add to this unit has to have a mini. I've got roughly a truckload of Elementals and honestly forgot to put a Star's worth on the list.
Ice Ferret and Phantom are good calls, I'll see about getting a couple.
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Well . . .
Blood Reaper & Tundra Wolf have minis- heard mixed reviews on the missile bay hatches but that is preference I think. Think the Night Wolf does, lots of MC Mk II variants out there though to be honest I really like the E. I think the Sun Cobra & TBolt C are out.
For armor, that is where it gets stickier . . . never liked the art on the Zoyra and so I always think of it looking like a Scorpion. I do not think the Schild has been done yet, but its a turret on a block so stand in should be easy if you wanted. Morrigu, Kelswa and Gurti are all out I think with the first two being widespread in the IS.
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Adder and/or Pouncer. They may be slow for their weight (or light for their speed), but they are classic, old-school force-fillers for Clan Wolf.
Black Wolf and Aesir are the new Wolf BA and tank, respectively. But I assume there is no mini for either, yet, or they'd already be listed.
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well, in the 3145 timeframe, no one is fielding the requisite number of omnimechs to properly field elementals that way. I don't know if the R10 has a mini, but I really like it for APC duties. Being that it's an omnivehicle you can carry a battle armor squad AND one can ride on the hull.
Optional whether you'd want any, but I don't see the Naga listed in the force at all. Artillery IS though, one of those places where I like vehicles better. Twice as many tubes, fewer worries about honor, easy to bid away for a proper fight.
Non-Omni-Wise, the faces I'm not seeing during Roll Call are Tundra Wolf, Blood Reaper Lobo and Sun Cobra. Locust IIc is also something that'd fit, but I always feel weird using them for some reason. If you want other battlemech options, an Imp C could fit in there. Omni-wise I like running the Phantom with the Wulfen, but the production window on them was regrettably small so I don't think anyone would fault their absence. Ice Ferret and Mist Lynx are possible buddies too, though I gotta imagine the Mist Lynx numbers are dwindled by 3145, with nearly a hundred years of no jaguars to bully for them.
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The R10 sadly does not have a mini, or I'd have a lance of them in every single factions scheme I play.
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I'll put in a good word for the Sun Cobra 2, in particular. The original's a bit of a dud, but the sequel is a savage little light cavalry 'Mech, lean and efficient. It's one of the Wolves' most underrated units, IMO.
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I'll put in a good word for the Sun Cobra 2, in particular. The original's a bit of a dud, but the sequel is a savage little light cavalry 'Mech, lean and efficient. It's one of the Wolves' most underrated units, IMO.
The Wolves don't actually get the Sun Cobra 2; it's available to the RAF, FedSuns and Sea Foxes, but not them. IIRC, the Wolves sold the Foxes the original dud design and the Foxes made it a jillion times better.
With that being said, I agree that it's a fantastic design. I can't reccomend it enough.
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Exact, strict adherence to the MUL isn't necessary. My Republic Hastati unit has an Eyrie and Gyrfalcon counted among its members. If one could reasonably be present through salvage then it can get the nod here. I'd personally stay away from things that have been out of production for 50+ years and aren't on the Wolf MUL list, but most other things I can handle.
I should also mention that this will be primarily (if not exclusively) for Alpha Strike game usage. If that changes some suggestions for inclusion, I won't be surprised.
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I'll put in a good word for the Sun Cobra 2, in particular. The original's a bit of a dud, but the sequel is a savage little light cavalry 'Mech, lean and efficient. It's one of the Wolves' most underrated units, IMO.
That's trial of grievance material right there. a 3/4 Sun Cobra (Standard) is one of the best 2kbv death machines I've fielded. I wouldn't want to wage a guerilla war with it, but it's absolutely a solid medium.
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One thing that I wish we saw more of was the Clan Omnis getting SuperChargers. This is partly b/c the Wolves were always fluffed as being a 'cavalry' style force and 3145 fluff carried that forward with the frontline clusters that got Lyran isorla being mocked as 'too slow' at 4/6.
Imagine a 3145 Trinary Supernova Rogue-
Wulfens, Ice Ferrets and Phantoms with Hellions, Grendels, Shadow Cats and Vipers to a lesser extent all moving BA to a critical location while a non-Omni star is filled out with Locust IICs, Solitaires, Pack Hunters & fast IS isorla. Such a fast supernova could easily disorder any IS force it's parent cluster would end up facing.
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* Shakes head *
No artillery at all... tsk tsk.
I personally would assign at least a MAXIMUM of 12 arty PER Cluster! With another Star PER Galaxy.
Meaning either a Naga, Bowman, pair of Huey, pairs of Demo A4, ex-SLDF : Ballista, Chaparral, Marksman C, Long Tom, Padilla, Thor C, SM2 and Pollux. Also includes possible use of Vali and Thumper TAV-1.
TT
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I find that between it's slow speed, thin armour and being a "shoot me" magnet with two Gauss Rifles and a TC, the Sun Cobra (Standard) dies pretty fast in a battle. It's also got a shortage of crits to pad with.
On the other hand, it's not like it's going to overheat any time soon...
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What is sort of funny is they did not like the Glass Spider so they made the Glass Spider 2 . . . then during/after the Jihad made the Sun Cobra, which is a smaller & less armored Glass Spider.
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Exact, strict adherence to the MUL isn't necessary. My Republic Hastati unit has an Eyrie and Gyrfalcon counted among its members. If one could reasonably be present through salvage then it can get the nod here. I'd personally stay away from things that have been out of production for 50+ years and aren't on the Wolf MUL list, but most other things I can handle.
I should also mention that this will be primarily (if not exclusively) for Alpha Strike game usage. If that changes some suggestions for inclusion, I won't be surprised.
Even more so if it's a Sea Fox product. The only thing they don't sell is a specific version of the Mad Cat Mk II and the Tiburon.
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Last night the Wolves ran down a Kurita force . . .
The set up was for a escalation tournament to test things- build a 5k force, add another 5k and eventually another 5k. Grand total is 15k eventually, scoring is still being worked out but bonus for killing a commander (undisclosed before game, gives init bonus) and it will have other things like attack/defend HQ. Pilot skills to be included in the BV and units had to be faction specific for the MUL at the Jihad.
Warden Wolf 1st 5K- 5063
Nova Cat C 3/5
Phantom H 3/5
Roc 3 4
Roc 3 4
Roc 3 4
Roc 3 4
Satyr 3 4
2nd 5K- makes it 10006
Morrigu (Laser) 4/6
Heimdall A 4/6
Hellion E 3/5
Started off spread along my edge with the pair of tanks in the center set to drive up on a Level 1 hill with some light woods, to the right was the Nova Cat and the 4 Roc 3s. On the left, set to flank down the side through woods and avoid the road & hills were the Phantom H, Hellion E and Satyr 3. My opposition placed his Phoenix Hawk 7K supported by two Kanazuchi (Upgrade), his center was a Avatar Prime, Blackjack OC & Sunder OE with a Royal Stalker farther out than my line. All the Drac pilots except the Blackjack (a 2) were 3 gunners and I am not sure of their piloting skill except it was not as helpful.
Turn 1 was a bit of position jockeying with the Avatar swinging out to help the PXH & BA hold the flank. Every shot wiffed, even some decent numbers on the Morrigu's ERLL.
My point of armor continued on the hill to take firing positions in light woods though almost directly in front near the middle of the map was a L2 hill. The Nova Cat also crested the hill in front of it which placed a patch of heavy woods between it and the Stalker but left fields of fire to the other Drac mechs open though it had some partial cover. Having won initiative my speedsters waited while the Rocs fanned out as a screen in front of the armor and a single on running to the right to go outside the Stalker. The single Satyr 3 ran up behind the Avatar Prime which advanced along my left edge but placed a row of heavy woods between it and the armor & Nova Cat. The Drac Pixie ran to form a bit of a conga by putting its back to the edge and to the left of the Satyr 3 which had it facing the Avatar's back 2 hexes away. My Hellion E ran through a gap in the woods to place itself between the Pixie and pair of Kanazuchi- I thought they were the regulars so I made sure to stay beyond 3 hexes. My last move ran the Phantom H up directly behind his Avatar Prime but not facing it to enable it to keep running if it survived incoming fire and the PXH kick. So this is turn 2 and its about to get brutal in the firing phase.
Three of the Roc 3s cannot fire, LOS blocked by being behind hills. I open the ball with my Phantom H- I needed a 3 for the MPL and 6s for the SHL into the back. MPL hit, and IIRC 5 of the SHL . . . opened up the back, got a engine hit after putting 2 SHL into the CTR. Morrigu hit it with a ERLL or two, Heimdall missed on its ER ATMs against the Blackjack, I forget what the Nova Cat scored armor damage on (PXH?), Satyr 3 missed, and single Roc 3 missed. The Hellion E connected with a AP Gauss and HML against the PXH but took a beating in return, losing a arm to the Sunder's Snubbie and Kanazuchi SPPC. The PXH and Avatar both missed their PSRs which put them on the ground. The Phantom did not try to kick the PXH, movement is its life after all but the Satyr did frenzy the fallen Avatar for a single (yay!) point of damage.
Lost initiative so time to move on, the Morrigu moved up on the hill for a better firing position while the Heimdall stayed in its light woods. The Nova Cat moved to put the heavy woods on the L2 hill to its right, still blocking LOS from the Stalker. Three of the Roc 3 moved into position in front of the Avatar which stood up and into the heavy woods. The Satyr 3 moved out to be in short range of the Blackjack OC which had some off the hill to cross the dip the road had cut between hills and the last Roc 3 had gotten outside the Stalker on my right though it was using 2 hexes of light woods as blocker terrain. The Phantom H ran up behind the Sunder OE and the Hellion E used MASC to run along the ridge above the road but behind the Blackjack to move 4 or so hexes from the Stalker for a +4. The Phantom again opens the ball for my fire . . . MPL and all 6 SHL hit the Sunder in the back- 2 Smalls hit the pristine Sunder's head killing the pilot and mech. Morrigu connects with 2 of the 3 ERLL against the Avatar and so does one of the Roc 3. Nova Cat causes some armor damage to the Pixie which had stood up to run and the Hellion plinks a AP Gauss against the Stalker which can only connect with a few lasers. Heimdall misses on ATMs & LBXs against the Stalker. The Hellion takes more damage but nothing critical and is still zipping about, one of the Rocs takes a few nicks from the Kanazuchi pair. Avatar falls again after missing a PSR.
Turn 4 . . . the Avatar gets up but runs back into the heavy woods to try to get some distance and cover from the Nova Cat & armor. The Heimdall had cruised forward a to get the LBX into range of more mechs. The Phantom reverses course to get behind the Avatar again after it killed the Sunder's pilot. The Nova Cat is up in the heavy woods, still screened against the Stalker which is plodding forward. My Hellion E had swooped down into the single heavy woods next to the road keeping it from the Blackjack which moved to shelter behind the L2 cliff. The protos began swarming around the Stalker though two were out of position. Once again, the Phantom opens the ball from behind the Avatar hoping to exploit that open CTR location. Same easy rolls as all game- MPL hit and 4 of the 6 SHL. No crits, armor damage all around with a single SHL hitting the Avatar's head. The Morrigu connects once again with 2 ERLL . . . one of which hits the head, another dead Drac. Its return fire scored the armor on the Morrigu but no crits. The Heimdall finally scored with a single ATM rack & LB-10X hitting the Stalker for armor damage. The Nova Cat put more pain on the Phoenix Hawk, scoring a single UAC/5 double tap along with a LPL and LB-5X full hit. One of the LBX pellets hit the open SPPC arm and got the upper arm actuator.
It cascaded from there . . . my Hellion got tore up and for fun I tried a DFA against the hiding Blackjack- never would have if it was closer. My Proto point stayed in the rear of the Stalker, ripping it brutally the next turn- some crits on the RT, one of which was LRM ammo. More crits the on the CTR for gyro death even if the pilot did not KO. Got 5 crits on 3 chances on the PXH's side torso- 4 JJ and a engine crit from the Nova Cat . . .
Game was called after the PXH was declared crippled, Blackjack had some armor damage and was on the ground and the smoking Stalker had just falled from its gyro being cut out. My Hellion E was scrap after the foolish DFA attempt. Nova Cat and Heimdall had not been touched, the Morrigu had less than 15 points of armor damage, most the Protos had not been touched and the Phantom had a side torso open with a single engine crit but was not 'crippled' though it would have been pulling back.
What is it like fighting a Wolf?
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The R10 sadly does not have a mini, or I'd have a lance of them in every single factions scheme I play.
But it does have a mini. It's just plastic and comes with a click base attached to it.
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I'm Batman!
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Been awhile, but in-universe I am not sure much has changed since you ghosted.
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Ah, who cares about universe. I just love being among my Wolves!
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Flying Fox?
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Hey Guys - I'm a little curious about Dark Age camo specs and wondering if anyone knows anything regarding this.
In FM 3145 Clan Wolf has a lot of new Galaxies that it raised after it burgeoned into an Empire - but I don't see any specs for these on Camospecs
http://camospecs.com/Faction/Details/47?p=1
I'm wondering now - what was the process for getting camo specs canonized? Has there been any attempt to do this to the new galaxies? Just curious how such things happen if they aren't in a book.
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It's possible that those new Galaxies don't have colours schemes at all, and just use the default Wolf Grey instead. Alternatively, since some of them inherited the names of defunct old Wolf Galaxies (eg Theta) they could have inherited the colour schemes as well.
Best way to go about it would be to ask Camospecs through their Facebook page. However, they do have a very large backlog of units still awaiting schemes.
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ilClan is drawing closer (again) so we might finally get some resolution from that GenCon diorama a few years ago.
So Alaric is heading into the Republic with nearly everything he can muster. You are a Galaxy Commander tasked with keeping the borders busy and thus the neighbors from knowing just how stripped the Empire is of forces Alaric left you your Keshik (light frontline cluster), a frontline cluster, a secondline cluster, and two garrison clusters- one filled with former Leaguers and the other with Lyrans. You have adequate transport to move each cluster and a bit of a surplus of assault & PWS dropships. Needless to say you do not want to deploy the Lyran cluster on that front and ditto the League cluster. Besides the neoLeague and Lyran rump you also have the Galatean crew, Republic Remnant, and some nasty Falcons on the borders while never knowing where Sea Foxes might show up (or did Alaric contract with them for shipping & support?). Additionally, your supply support is going to be minimal since a lot of the supply chain is going to be bound to Alaric's offensive.
Where do you go on the offensive to skirmish along the borders.
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Technically, there's a cease fire in place along the FWL border, and they've seemed willing to hold it. The Desant seems a good place to start. Knock down the Falcons before they get ideas. The Republican Remnant Rump, if it still exists, is a big #2. They can cause much mischief behind the lines. The Lyrans have their own problems to deal with, but I wouldn't be adverse to snatching several worlds to bring them under the protection of the True Archon while Trillian falters. Galatean Defense League is probably last on my list.
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While the League in general had a truce in '45 we do not if it was holding in '50 but even with it both sides overlooked the Crusader Wolves engaging in Trials with the Clan Protectorate. The truce with the League was in effect IMO b/c Jessica was afraid of the Wolves might landing on her in the early 40s. With Regulus out of the picture and no longer able to stab her in the back . . . and the bulk of the Wolf touman elsewhere, it would be surprising if they did not get adventurous. The only other avenue for the neoFWL is nibble at the periphery of the Lyrans or focus on Andurien . . . which means facing the CapCon & MoC. Which would be more important- returning Andurien to the League or the captured MSC worlds?
Which is why I was asking what sort of plan folks might come up with to checkmate or bluff (more likely) the League into maintaining the truce.
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They are engaging in trials. Nothing more. That's what Clans do. Besides, the Free Worlds League has so much on it's plate that I think they're busy without adding another war onto it. They have the Anduriens, the Marians, and integrating the Regulans to worry about.
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Thinking about this for a 3130s Wolf secondline cluster, able to be Warden or Crusader . . .
Savage Wolf
Arctic Wolf 2
Timber Wolf
Stormcrow
Elemental (APG)
Supernova Assault
Alpha Nova
Timber Wolf E
Gargoyle C
Adder B
Mad Dog Mk IV C
Centurion Omni C
2 Elemental, 2 Rabid,
Bravo Star
Jade Hawk 03 5/8(10[12])5
Gyrfalcon 5/8(10)/6 or 7
Arcas
Scourge
Black Hawk 2
Charlie Star
Linebacker
Ghost 50
Uziel 2S
Argotera 1A
Centurion 9-D
Trinary Battle
Star
Hellstar
Cygnus
Thunderbolt IIC 2
Osprey 26
Eisenfaust 7X
Nova
Night Gyr
Hel
Sunder
Blackjack Omni
Templar III
Gnome, Rogue Bear
Warhammer IIC 4
Tundra Wolf
Verfolger
Ostwar 3M
Warhammer 9S
Trinary Rogue
Supernova Alpha
Black Lanner
Ice Ferret
Phantom
Wulfen
Corona, Black Wolf, Cuchulainn SupA, Gnome, Ogre
Bravo Star
Mongrel T2
Arctic Wolf
Pack Hunter 2
Legionnaire
Spirit
Charlie Star
Locust IIC 4
Incubus 1 or 4
Havoc P6
Jaguar
Supernova Phalanx
1st Nova
Heimdall, Schildkrote, Carnivores, Kelswa, Mars (ATM), Behemoth II, Marksmen 1A, Gurti?, Morrigu (Laser), Alacorn Mk VII, Hui?
heavy & assault BA to include IS suits like Ogres- tracked APCs?
2nd Nova
Epona, Hephastus, maybe a Zibler, SM1/1A & SM3 Tank Destroyers, Svantovit, Bellonas, other fast hovers
GDL Std (LRR), IS Std (LRR) x2, Rabid (BA CO), ?
3rd Star
BE701 Joust x4, Ares, Ares (Plasma), Enyo x2, Kinnol, Myrmidon x2?, Mantueffel?
Trinary Aerial
2 stars ASF
Gossamer VTOL
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So, a Wolf in Exile cluster that contains Crusaders or a Wolf Empire cluster that has Wardens? ;)
More seriously, the traditional command star has four 'mechs and a point of Aerospace fighters.
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No . . . a Command Star is 4 similar points and a single complimentary point. Look in the FMs- both WC and CC- and you will find the command stars with both.
Not meaning warriors, but a mix of the equipment between Crusader & Warden specifics . . . for instance, the Black Wolf BA, the Isegrim DS, and a few other bits were developed together. But the Crusaders & Wardens have trialed each other . . and fight or trade with the LC, JF, GBD & HH- so the equipment could trade hands that way. I was trying to crate a cluster that I could put together and just swap out the bloodnamed/commanders to change from a Warden to Crusader cluster & vice-versa.
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Wolves! as we race towards Terra, what is your ride?
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*Pulls out his datapad and drags a merchant over*
Yes....
Tell me about your ride as you race towards Terra.
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My choice would be a Woodsman A. If not that maybe my customized Warwolf H or Warwolf A for a standard variant. Or the Carronade, I have a soft spot for that. Maybe even swap the lasers for Clan ones, the regular Gauss for a Clan one and put the extra tonnage into more ammo.
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Warwolf A is my preference as well, and what my campaign's player character drives. H my second most common config of the canon configurations, also favoring a custom that swaps the Prime's Gauss Rifle for a HAG and ECM Suite.
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I think everyone has their own little twist on a canon ride . . .
Personally, I am intrigued by the Wulfen with 3 HMLs? iHMLs?
I also wish we had a LOT more Supercharger configs, it fits the Wolves faction flavor (cavalry!) . . . and I just want to laugh as the 'sucky' Linebacker is racing about to get into med/short range to exploit the armor/structure at that speed with some decent pod space.
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I think everyone has their own little twist on a canon ride . . .
Personally, I am intrigued by the Wulfen with 3 HMLs? iHMLs?
I also wish we had a LOT more Supercharger configs, it fits the Wolves faction flavor (cavalry!) . . . and I just want to laugh as the 'sucky' Linebacker is racing about to get into med/short range to exploit the armor/structure at that speed with some decent pod space.
3145 NTNU did give a nice Linebacker config. 2 iHLL, 2 SSRM One Shots. Supercharger. It's my favorite flavor of linebacker.
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Sure . . . but it was given 4 turkeys with the Supercharger . . . 2 big explosions w/o CASE II, and 2 sucktastic SSRM OS? I have not looked at the RS but I would have preferred some good old ERML and ATMs.
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actually they are improved OS SSRM2's.. so at least they aren't wasting weight.
it also has a TC, making those iHLL's pretty effective most of the time.
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Its still OS SSRMs- plain SRMs would be worth more IMO. And sure it has a TC tied to 2 bombs in the machine. While they may hit a bit more- its still limited to 15 hexes. I have not seen the sheet so I am wondering if the config can deal with that heat.
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It can.
I was skeptical of it at first myself. But it has delivered frequently enough to change my mind.
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I have not been able to really exercise the Clan forces recently so I cannot speak to the exact ability of recent configs. With the weight involved (8 for iHLL, 2 for TC, SC and the iOS) I figured it had to have room for some DHS, just did not know if it was sufficient.
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Mangonel is best Wolf 'Mech
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I think as far as what I'd personally prefer to use, it'd definitely be some flavor of Wulfen, albeit definitely weighted toward one with some actual guns on it.
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I'd use a Mad Dog IV. Prime or C configuration as appropriate. One's good for cracking open vehs. The other is good for cracking open 'mechs.
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Timber Wolf or GTFO
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As we get set for Shattered Fortress . . .
Its the 3140s, as a Wolf player do you still feel the rivalries of the 3050s & before? IE, is it all about killing the Falcons, snubbing what is left of the Hellions (if in contact with Imperio), warily looking in the Bears' direction, ignoring the Horses and knowing you are better than the Lyran social generals?
Or do you hate the Lyrans for (supposedly) killing the Khan on their capital?
Regret not pressing further into the League?
Laugh at the superstitious Cats but respect the Protectorate's martial prowess?
want to stamp the mercenaries off of Galatea and surround worlds?
wrest the Desant from the Falcons?
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Wolves! as we race towards Terra, what is your ride?
I think everyone has their own little twist on a canon ride . . .
Septicemia E!
I play Horse all the time! >:D
TT
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As we get set for Shattered Fortress . . .
Its the 3140s, as a Wolf player do you still feel the rivalries of the 3050s & before? IE, is it all about killing the Falcons, snubbing what is left of the Hellions (if in contact with Imperio), warily looking in the Bears' direction, ignoring the Horses and knowing you are better than the Lyran social generals?
I always felt like the Falcon Rivalry was stronger on the Falcon side than the Wolf side. They envy Kerensky choosing us, whereas... what do we really have to envy them over? I always got the feeling that when we had Jaguars to fight, that given the choice between fighting the Falcons and fighting the Jaguars, in the absence of extenuating circumstances most invasion Wolves would have chosen the Jaguars.
Generally, I respect the Bears, miss the Traditional Falcons (Galaxy Commander Stephanie Chistu is a breath of fresh air, even if her hobby would be more at home in Clan Ghost Bear), and am ambivalent about the Horses.
Or do you hate the Lyrans for (supposedly) killing the Khan on their capital?
Regret not pressing further into the League?
My resentment for the Lyran state is far more over their trying to use Clan Wolf as their pet, than the death of a Khan. We can make more of those, but they gravely mistook the nature of our arrangement when they saw themselves our masters. I am content with our cease-fire with the League, and if TRO3150 is to be believed, we have trialed them for Jumpship Maintenance at one of their yards. if they honored these trials, then they are as good a neighbor as I could wish for.
Laugh at the superstitious Cats but respect the Protectorate's martial prowess?
It annoys me that the Cats lash out at Clan Wolf when we are blameless for their misery. The first Ghost Bear to request hegira through the empire to reach them is getting my emphatic approval.
want to stamp the mercenaries off of Galatea and surround worlds?
wrest the Desant from the Falcons?
Pointless Distractions. The Road to Terra awaits us, why waste sweat on them?
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Interestingly, The Anvil does not depict Wolves in Exile, but it DOES reference their existence, and is set in 3148. If the speculation about their extinction sparked by TRO3150 does come to fruition, it does so at a far later time than anticipated.
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According to my watch agent who has a hardcopy of Shattered Fortress for me...
Encrypted Spoilers Follow Use ROT13 to decode (http://www.rot13.com).
Orybj gur pyvssunatre jurer gurl yrnir vg hc va gur nve jurgure gur Snypbaf be Jbyirf ernpu Green svefg, vf n cvpgher bs na Ngynf VV svtugvat n Fnintr Jbys. Gur fnzr cvpgher gung jnf, V oryvrir, ng bar gvzr fyngrq gb or gur pbire bs vyPyna.
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Interestingly, The Anvil does not depict Wolves in Exile, but it DOES reference their existence, and is set in 3148. If the speculation about their extinction sparked by TRO3150 does come to fruition, it does so at a far later time than anticipated.
To be honest . . . I think Malvina lashes back out with what we saw in the Anvil, and specifically uses what Stephanie did not.
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I fear you may be correct. One would think that would draw a rather strenuous rebuke from the other clans though
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By the way They work you need manually enter them verse the button.
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She already bled/drained the Horses and is likely sparring with them . . . which leaves the Bears on their shared border, travelling Foxes, distant Ravens and occupied Crusader Wolves who were already fighting Malvina.
Would I love the Bears to pound the Falcons, or the Ravens start raiding their space over nukes? Sure . . .
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To be honest . . . I think Malvina lashes back out with what we saw in the Anvil, and specifically uses what Stephanie did not.
Which would make her an idiot because that would end them. If they used that against me I would use it against them at every opportunity. The Clans have a superior weapon in their warriors and equipment. She would make the Inner Sphere an equal with her foolishness.
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Without reading the book, sounds like Stephanie being setup as next possible Khan of Clan Jade Falcon.
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If she was then Clan Jade Falcon is in trouble if Alaric decides to challenge her to a duel with melee weapons...
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Kitsune, I would agree except the IS is still scarred from the Jihad apparently and the Warden Wolves may or may not have any to reply . . . and if they did, they would likely have been in the concentration she would have fired them towards.
She executed Ortillery on the Kell Hounds and her Horse allies with very little negative feedback . . . she use plutonium to poison the water of a world, again with little feedback - except to be reviled by everyone who has not clicked their heels to follow her example.
She may . . . but we also have Noritomo Helmer sitting in command of Omega in the Desant.
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Yeah. Actually remembering all that it kind of breaks my immersion.
If I'm Trillian Steiner after what Malvina has done I meet every Falcon Batchall with a tactical nuke. Dropships are all retrofitted to carry warheads until the Falcons are shadows burned into the earth.
It's stupid. Every battle between the Lyran Alliance and Clan Jade Falcon at this point should be aerospace forces desperately trying to keep dropships away.
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A bit of a thought exercise with the establishment of the Wolf Empire . . .
Khan Alaric Ward has selected you, ristar, to be the Star Colonel of a collection of freebirths from the League or Lyrans (pick) to form a new garrison cluster. You and your officers will be initiating them to what it means to be a Clan warrior and foremost a Wolf. You equipment for the freebirths will be leftovers from the Inner Sphere isorla that was taken in the campaigns against the League & Lyrans, and brushes with the Remnant & Galatea- it will contain very little Clan tech gear and no OmniMechs. The Khan has decided that you can select some equipment for your use and the use of your officers- pick your 4-6 officers (Mostly Star Captains, maybe a Star Commander) which will be promoted from their current slots (meaning you cannot tap, without very good reason, a serving frontline Star Captain. Since we do not have much actual knowledge of warriors, I basically mean types/qualifications.) who will serve under you. You maybe have other transfers assigned to the Cluster, but these are likely to be nearly solhama or viewed as dezgra. You will have at months to turn this collection of warriors into a functioning cluster that will take up assignment along our borders.
So as a example, for my garrison cluster . . .
CO- for my ride I would take either a Night Wolf or Tundra Wolf, which is a pocket heavy. Most of the IS equipment I get would probably not go faster than 4/6 so it works
Officer #1- I want a well regarded freebirth mechwarrior who was born in the OZ from IS lines, someone who did not come from the Homeworlds enclaves. This person would be the living example I would encourage the new warriors to strive to be like. Probably give this Star Captain something like a Fox-built Black Hawk battlemech or a Jade Hawk to lead a faster trinary.
Officer #2- Elemental Star Captain, someone to train the freebirths infantry in BA operations, assist in training MW how to operate with BA, and teach the MW how to effectively fight BA. Their point would probably be Clan Med BA, so Rabids or such.
Officer #3- Dipping for someone capable of logistics work, this would be a mechwarrior, BA trooper or vehicle crewman who was noted as being gifted with logistics. They would get a promotion to Star Commander and be the Star Colonel's aide. They would be in the cluster command star, and equipped with- Blood Reaper/Elemental/Joust dependent on type.
Officer #4- A defense specialist since this is a garrison unit, either a MW or armor trooper preferably. They will command a supernova of slower mechs & vehicles that will be the anvil in any deployments. I would also accept someone who gets more out of their artillery. This Star Colonel would use something like a Warhammer IIC 4 or Carnivore/Morrigu.
Officer #5- Solid pilot who can work with ground support, not looking for a pilot who can lead DS defense or raid insertion as much as interdiction.
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Shattered Fortress Spoilers
Sure looking Wolf ilClan in here!
2nd Succession War SB foreword speaks of the Exarch providing information to the Loremaster. As if the republic existed in some form within the ilClan. I do not see the Falcons suffering the republic to exist in any capacity, do you? I do not see any other proximate contenders as of this sourcebook. And the Empire tends to be pretty hands off regarding civilian government, have they not?
Shattered Fortress depicts a number of "And then the surviving RAF were made into Lower Castes or Bondsmen" moments.
Then there's Stone's conversations with Tucker that sure sound like getting ready to submit to the Wolf Empire.
My bet? The Clan fleet that arrives in the Terran system in 3151 is Wolf, and has been allowed to arrive to fight a Trial for possession of Terra. The same battle we saw fought so many Gencons ago. The one culminating in Alaric versus Stone, and an overall Wolf Victory.
Other things:
Apparently our lower castes on Phecda were loyal enough to sabotage the RAF occupation. Doubly funny since the Republic seemed to be using that same tactic against the combine and confederation
Outreach is in Capellan hands. I want it back.
The Wolves in Exile have vanished to points unknown. I want to know them.
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Shattered Fortress Spoilers
The Wolves in Exile have vanished to points unknown. I want to know them.
I'm guessing to wherever Calamity Kell meant when she sent the message saying to meet "Where It All Began".
Which could be a few things, actually. Donegal, since that's where Arthur Luvon christened the Kell Hounds. Or maybe the periphery world where Morgan, Patrick and Katrina found the black boxes?
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My guess is The Rock.
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Makes you almost wonder what happened to Garner Kerensky...
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It matters little. He failed Clan Wolf. Anastasia Kerensky still breathes.
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It matters little. He failed Clan Wolf. Anastasia Kerensky still breathes.
And I have no doubt that Anna K aided in said failure
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Makes you almost wonder what happened to Garner Kerensky...
Well, there was the article about that . . .
And it was nice to see my prediction on nuking Arc Royal was off- particularly since it happened before Anvil.
I really have to wonder how her neighbors would take the news of Malvina sending Elementals to rampage through Iron Wombs and sibko children. TPTB definitely want to keep my Warden Wolf hate on for the Falcons.
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I'm guessing to wherever Calamity Kell meant when she sent the message saying to meet "Where It All Began".
Which could be a few things, actually. Donegal, since that's where Arthur Luvon christened the Kell Hounds. Or maybe the periphery world where Morgan, Patrick and Katrina found the black boxes?
Terra.
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I'm guessing to wherever Calamity Kell meant when she sent the message saying to meet "Where It All Began".
Which could be a few things, actually. Donegal, since that's where Arthur Luvon christened the Kell Hounds. Or maybe the periphery world where Morgan, Patrick and Katrina found the black boxes?
Terra.
I hadn't considered the WiE as having any chance of being ilClan... and while ultimately Clan Jekyll Wolf is less plausible than Clan Hyde Wolf of being ilClan... I gotta admit it's a lot more plausible than I was originally thinking. The idea has got a lot of potential.
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Terra.
I hadn't considered the WiE as having any chance of being ilClan... and while ultimately Clan Jekyll Wolf is less plausible than Clan Hyde Wolf of being ilClan... I gotta admit it's a lot more plausible than I was originally thinking. The idea has got a lot of potential.
They suffer the same problems as the Smoke Jaguars. They aren't considered a real clan. But, "Where it all began." for the Clans is Terra and "Where it all began" for the darkage is essentially the same place. They may not even be trying to become Ilclan. But it seems to me if you're Warden Wolves and want to protect the Inner Sphere there is only one place to protect the Inner Sphere from right now and that's Terra.
Callandre is also there in the novel Fortress Republic. But the Exiles are one of the few factions to not have a representative there.
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Hunting down the passage in Fortress though she is addressing the Kell Hounds. Not the Wolves in Exile. Though, if I were the Wolves in Exile, Terra is still the place I'd have to go.
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Terra might be the final destination, but she's talking about where they will meet up for their "Exodus." Maybe New Samarkand, then?
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The Kell Hounds could be off to Galatea where the unit was founded. It's still Lyran. But I wouldn't put all of my civilians there.
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You think ;)
For all we know it's at The Rock where one side first met the other. or it could be out on Poulsbo or ANY other place from Kell Hound history. The question should be "Where what began?"
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You think ;)
For all we know it's at The Rock where one side first met the other. or it could be out on Poulsbo or ANY other place from Kell Hound history. The question should be "Where what began?"
IT ALL. Come on, people!
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IT ALL. Come on, people!
;D
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TRo3150 said Kell headed off to the Periphery . . . I expect them to try to find a safe place to stash everyone before going on a headhunting mission of Malvina. Killing her definitely fits into the Warden cause.
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So perhaps they've gone to where the Red Corsair (Katrina Steiner) and Morgan Kell found that lostech back in the day.
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I find it hard to believe that the fleet could be Wolf Empire, since less than two months earlier Alaric skipped a jumpship off the Terran Wall for the exact same reason.
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I find it hard to believe that the fleet could be Wolf Empire, since less than two months earlier Alaric skipped a jumpship off the Terran Wall for the exact same reason.
I am thinking it isn’t Wolf. It will be either WiE, Ghost Bear, or CSA. CSA because that would be the most radical twist and they might want to weave the HW Clans back into the plot for the big finish in the next book. Ghost Bear because they are the most powerful Wardens in the IS and WiE because as they Warden faction of Wolf. It’s obviously going to be whoever Stone “invites”. I still am holding out hope that Wolf Empire gets it, but I have doubts. I also think we’re in for a couple more twists.
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I am thinking it isn’t Wolf. It will be either WiE, Ghost Bear, or CSA. CSA because that would be the most radical twist and they might want to weave the HW Clans back into the plot for the big finish in the next book. Ghost Bear because they are the most powerful Wardens in the IS and WiE because as they Warden faction of Wolf. It’s obviously going to be whoever Stone “invites”. I still am holding out hope that Wolf Empire gets it, but I have doubts. I also think we’re in for a couple more twists.
The most radical twist is Clan Hells Horses. The next most radical twist is the Raven Alliance. After that I would say is Clan Wolf in Exile, Clan Smoke Jaguar or Clan Sea Fox. Then I would say in order, from most radical to least radical it would go, Ghost Bear Dominion, Whatever Home Clan, Clan Jade Falcon and then Wolf Empire.
I guess that's my order for Ilclan. But I don't think a home clan is particularly surprising. It's too easy of a surprise.
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I am thinking it isn’t Wolf. It will be either WiE, Ghost Bear, or CSA. CSA because that would be the most radical twist and they might want to weave the HW Clans back into the plot for the big finish in the next book. Ghost Bear because they are the most powerful Wardens in the IS and WiE because as they Warden faction of Wolf. It’s obviously going to be whoever Stone “invites”. I still am holding out hope that Wolf Empire gets it, but I have doubts. I also think we’re in for a couple more twists.
Just because I'm curious and honestly I can't remember, do the Exiles have much of a fleet at this point? Obviously they have the transportation assets to get their combat units and disappear, but do they have much in the way of warships, pocket warships, or assault dropships?
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Just because I'm curious and honestly I can't remember, do the Exiles have much of a fleet at this point? Obviously they have the transportation assets to get their combat units and disappear, but do they have much in the way of warships, pocket warships, or assault dropships?
No idea, but ideologically if Stone was going to make a deal with an IS Clan I think it would be WiE or GB.
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IT ALL. Come on, people!
IT ALL-->ITALL-->I TALL--> The first planet in the Tall Trees system.
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IT ALL-->ITALL-->I TALL--> The first planet in the Tall Trees system.
Foxx Ittal?!?!?
Foxx Ittal is Ilkhan!
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So if Wolf in Exile IS on Terra, how do they expect to hold it when they can't even keep arc Royal?
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Well . . . the battle of Arc Royal sounded like it was a small portion of what remained- both Keshiks and a cluster with whatever sibkos could be armed. Patrik Fetladral was the Khan for the Dark Age period- and to be honest I am not mourning his passing, he seemed rather complacent which might be a cultural indicator- and Selena Woods was the saKhan . . .
But after Fetladral fell we are told saKhan Miriam Shaw evacuated what remained- how much material they could take with them makes me wonder. Miriam Shaw seems made of sterner stuff and hopefully could lead to rebirth/expansion . . . as should have happened after the Jihad.
So to offer a 3rd option of where the Wolves could have ended up . . . what about the Imperio? If the Scorpions still exist they were long time allies with the old Wolves.
As far was warships . . . Implacable (Black Lion) was reamed by the Bears, Werewolf (McKenna) ate a nuke?, not sure what happened to the Ulric Kerensky (Cameron) or the pair of Aegis but pretty sure they are gone, the Full Moon (Potemkin) flew through a plot hole in the 3080s/3090s- which leaves us with a pair of Vincents supported by Isegrims, Miraborgs, Mercers, and Nagasawas. Not sure the Vincents survived, but I do not recall anything specific to them being dead.
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CWiE has no warships anymore.
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So if Wolf in Exile IS on Terra, how do they expect to hold it when they can't even keep arc Royal?
With that Army we were given a glimpse of.
I think it's a neat spin to imagine the RAF vs Wolves artwork we've seen on a couple covers now could be wholly or partially WiE pilots inside the RAF mechs.
CWiE has no warships anymore.
to be precise: the passage about the fleet that explicitly says it is Clan never makes clear that WarShips are part of that fleet. It's a fleet of "Clan vessels". That easily could mean nothing but JumpShips and DropShips without so much as even a single PWS.
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CWiE has no warships anymore.
Well that Torpedos my theory...
Reading the speculation thread I am more convinced now that it could be a Wolf fleet but that may not be the Clan that ends up with Terra.
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Warships are so passe . . . its all about dropships with big guns now!
I do love how 'warships cause problems in the setting, so we destroyed a bunch in the Jihad to get rid of them' and now with Shattered Fortress we get orbital strikes (Mad Mal), and plenty of instance of ASF bombing mech & armor concentrations to soften them up for mech assaults.
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My bet is on Mallory's World.
Anyone else... it's where Morgan became the key de facto owner of the Kell Hounds, after his brother died and he took over. Remember, he left to join a monastery on Zaniah after that battle.
TT
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Foxx Ittal?!?!?
Foxx Ittal is Ilkhan!
My first official act is is to bring back the woodsman, then license it to the sea foxs for dissemination across the sphere.
My real guess is the ravens, I get scared when I haven't heard from them in a while. Kinda like when you're babysitting and suddenly it goes quiet.
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My first official act is is to bring back the woodsman, then license it to the sea foxs for dissemination across the sphere.
My real guess is the ravens, I get scared when I haven't heard from them in a while. Kinda like when you're babysitting and suddenly it goes quiet.
How do you sleep at night with the Chainelanes right above the Dominion then? ;D
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My real guess is the ravens, I get scared when I haven't heard from them in a while. Kinda like when you're babysitting and suddenly it goes quiet.
Nothing bad is happening. We're helping >:D
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Nothing bad is happening. We're helping >:D
Suddenly, a recurring line from 8-Bit Theater comes to mind.
"It's LIKE help."
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We're helping hands.
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My first official act is is to bring back the woodsman, then license it to the sea foxs for dissemination across the sphere.
By your command.
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Btw . . . for anyone who did not catch it, we find out what happened to Jacob Carns from Bonfire of Worlds. Jacob Carns was a Warden Wolf sibkin of Verena and both of them were on the bridge before the Wolf Empire kicked off their last offensive against the League. Alaric offered him the option of joining the Crusaders as a bondsmen or being returned to the Wardens . . .
. . . he was returned to the Wardens, either resumed or gained the post of Star Colonel in charge of the 1st Wolf Legion. He commanded the Legion and supporting solahma infantry in holding the line at Wolf City as the new Khan gathered everything she could to escape off world. While the Legion had already been in combat for weeks, they faced the 53rd Falcon Talon and 6th Falcon Striker before Malvina led her Raptor Keshik in to steal the glory from her subordinates. By the time it was over, only three Legion warriors survived to be taken bondsmen and the two Falcon clusters that had led the way were reduced to a shadow of their former selves.
"Attention First Wolf Legion! The Falcons killed our Khan, slaughtered our sibkos, and think they can destroy us! They are wrong! Our Clan is in retreat, and we must stop those arrogant surats that dare call themselves Jade Falcons from breaking through and claiming more of our Clan. I have one order: No Falcon gets past us!" -Star Colonel Jacob Carns, 1st Wolf Legion, 29 Sept 3146
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Maybe someone can answer this for me . . .
Longinus C- I know it has Advanced SRM4s (why can that missile system not be one mechs . . . ) but is it built with Clan internal structure or IS? What gun does it have, or is it a MWM equipped suit?
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I think Wolf makes it, aff?
So IS-based Clantech, but no Harjel if memory serves me.
TT
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No Harjel is the fluff I saw on Sarna but I do not have the sheet or a RS for it- from TRO 3150. If it is Clan internal- despite missing the Harjel- then it should be awesome jumping with that missile pack. I also cannot find it in MegaMek but I have not updated it since . . . spring?
Reason I ask is it could be like the Surat . . . IS suit with Clan weapons- my fear is its only Clan weapon is the Adv SRM4. Honestly it should dump the MWM and just slap a AP Gauss on the end . . . a medium suit, going 1/3 with 10 HP, AP Gauss and that A-SRM4 for mechanized work is solid. I just want it to jump with the missiles.
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No such record sheet exists. ::) None of the good stuff in TRO3150 has a record sheet. And giving them record sheets does not seem to be a priority either. So things like the Longinus C and the Orion C remain something of a mystery. Though, all of the theoretical interpretations of the Orion C that I've run have been monsters.
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my belly full of vanquished bird this holiday, I begin to wonder about the nature of the rivalries and alliances the Wolves have with other clans...
I always had the impression that the Falcon rivalry was weighted more to the side of the Falcons, than the Wolves. Going all the way back to them being affronted that the Founder chose Clan Wolf instead of Jade Falcon, and festering ever since. Not to say that the Wolves do not enjoy antagonizing them, but that it was far from their first priority.
On the other hand, I always felt like their beef with the Smoke Jaguars was more intense. Like, if you gave a Wolf Warrior a chance to best a Falcon or a Jaguar, they would choose the Jaguar 9 times out of 10. The Jaguars certainly reciprocated, too.
I recall Cyrilla Ward and Natasha Kerensky fondly remembering bullying Jaguars. Vlad may have considered Marthe a rival, but she was still a suitable coupling partner. I do not recall many Jaguars being willing to socialize with wolves on any level.
Alliances, on the other hand... Well, the Wolves really got left to stand on their own when it came to refusing REVIVAL. Even their allies left them out to dry on that one. Of our allies the Coyotes always seemed to be our better friends as time went on. I am having a hard time remembering a time the Goliath Scorpions were helpful or friendly to the Wolves past the absorbtion of the Widowmakers. The Coyotes on the other hand were brothers to us even as we departed the homeworlds. They Shared Omnimechs with us, they helped us in moments of need, I even wager that if the home clans ever return to the sphere, that they will be fondly disposed to the Wolf Clan, if anyone is (conversely, I think the Horses are most likely to turn coats and fight alongside the home clans). I somewhat wonder if it was not just our easy handling of our lower castes, but also Coyote good will that limited the impact of the Society upon Clan Wolf, given that the Coyotes and the Society were closely linked.
What do my fellow Wolves think?
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As a Coyote and a Warden, dealing with Vlad's Wolves was interesting. Considering Vlad was always consolidating power, when the Blakist decided that Tamar need to be cleaned with nuclear fire, the amount of Socitey collaborators was greatly diminished, and more worried about their survival in the IS.
As for how my clan reacts to the Wolves now, more depends on how the clan, and the rest have changed. We dont know hwo the remaining HW Clans have developed in the 60+ years, if we ever.
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Scorpions come into play in a few ways . . . they were the source of the original Elemental BA proto-types, deep water mining suits. The Scorpions also provided their databases on SL doctrine and played the role of trainers against the Dragoons before sending them off. Some Scorpions joined the Dragoons and the Wolves perhaps traded officers to keep a few trainers in the Clan after the Dragoons were sent off- check Vlad Dinour's fluff from WCSB and the 37th? Striker Cluster? I think the cluster even honors the Scorpion trainers with its name. It is absolutely organized differently with each trinary having a star of mechs, star of BA and star of ASF.
I think one of the other things that makes the Scorpions allies is that the Scorpions are content to leave their borders with the Wolves alone. Face it . . . outside of the Coyotes, anyone else not fight the Wolves for territory?
The Wolves SHOULD have employed their friendly links to the Scorpions to use Potemkins for shipping. Ulric could have moved a lot of stuff if he had access to the Scorpion's Potemkin fleet.
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If you forced me to come up with a reason that Ulric did not take advantage of that potential aid, I would speculate it was because Ulric's goals had a lot more to do with fouling up REVIVAL and trolling the other clans first, and winning it only as a second option if they could not spoil it. An Ulric who was earnestly committed to REVIVAL's goal would have been foolish not to do that. It would give the scorpions a great chance to lug some seekers along too.
As for other clans who've not antagonized the Wolf, I am having a hard time remembering any hostilities between Clan Wolf and the Fire Mandrills. The Mandrills even share our love of la crosse. this may have more to do with a lack of relevance to each other, and the mandrill infighting rather than respect. Their blurbs about each other in FMCC are certainly no love letters. I wouldn't count that as definitive though, the same section's analysis of the coyotes isn't that flattering either, but they turned out to be our truest friends come the Wars of Reaving. FMCC also reminds me of a certain... apathy? indifference? to the Cloud Cobras. To be honest though, they are a clan I forget existed.
On a meta level, I feel like the bad blood between bear and wolf exists more because a Bear/Wolf teamup would be like an unbroken fedcom, a big Game Over for everybody else. Seems like they were friends with the Exiles on the down-low though.
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If you forced me to come up with a reason that Ulric did not take advantage of that potential aid, I would speculate it was because Ulric's goals had a lot more to do with fouling up REVIVAL and trolling the other clans first, and winning it only as a second option if they could not spoil it. An Ulric who was earnestly committed to REVIVAL's goal would have been foolish not to do that. It would give the scorpions a great chance to lug some seekers along too.
I recall from Lost Destiny that Phelan Ward outright stated to the other Khans that Ulric's goal was to stall the invasion. His analogy was that of a knife against a whetstone: in the end the Clans would be ground to nothing. That may yet happen, but as of Shattered Fortress I don't see any of the major Clans choking on their expanded empires.
As for other clans who've not antagonized the Wolf, I am having a hard time remembering any hostilities between Clan Wolf and the Fire Mandrills. The Mandrills even share our love of la crosse. this may have more to do with a lack of relevance to each other, and the mandrill infighting rather than respect. Their blurbs about each other in FMCC are certainly no love letters. I wouldn't count that as definitive though, the same section's analysis of the coyotes isn't that flattering either, but they turned out to be our truest friends come the Wars of Reaving. FMCC also reminds me of a certain... apathy? indifference? to the Cloud Cobras. To be honest though, they are a clan I forget existed.
The Hell's Horses also had a chummy relationship with the Wolves, until first Vlad Ward abused those ties and then the two Clans needed to compete for the same Spheroid turf.
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Since his Refusal had been defeated, Ulric went the path of out-'Crusading' the Crusaders while he was Khan. Its why he as part of Revival he kept his operational pace high as well as hitting a lot of worlds unlike the actual Crusader Clans. To hit that operational tempo he, or someone in his keshik who was involved in the planning, staged supplies forward with those supply caches in frontline systems- not sure if we were ever told if they were un-inhabited or just occupied systems- while his Clusters that had been involved in the fighting consolidated their hold. He also sourced as much stuff locally so the shipments from Clan space was for the vital stuff that could not be found locally. Food, water, uniforms, medical supplies, standard armor, maybe ammo depending on your BTU interpretation, building supplies, tools, ICE fuel, POL, support vehicles (VTOLs, trucks, jeep analogues), and anything else that a army might need on the march- a sort of BTU Sherman's March to the Sea, full scale foraging. Which, since Ulric was waging a logistics war against the Crusaders a handful of Potemkins being added to his logistics planning would have been huge- see https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=63210.msg1453823#msg1453823 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=63210.msg1453823#msg1453823).
While not explicitly said, the indication is this is different from the other three Crusader Clans. AFAIK Aiden's story did not cover the Falcons seizing property and looting storehouses for what they needed. We get indications the three Crusader Clans did not care about their logistics and told their tech/merchants to just get everything from the Home Worlds to the IS. The benefit of Ulric's approach is multitude- first since the Clans only care about success, its what he has and means the non-Invaders will listen more in Council than to the Crusader Invaders. Second it puts a LOT of pressure on the invading Crusader leadership, those without bloodnames need combat to get Bloodnamed killed and to prove themselves for advancement. Those with Bloodnames want higher ranked individuals to fall, either through failure or in combat, so they can advance either in Bloodhouse politics or in Clan rank. This is why Aletha was able to replace the Khan after she was elected, the core of the Ghost Bear touman was disappointed in their showing in the Invasion and wanted new leadership to get the Clan on track. The final advantage is the one most people acknowledge, it forced the Crusaders to hurry up their assaults which resulted in more casualties and equipment damage- along with damage to the Crusader's reputation.
When Ulric became ilKhan . . . well, then the plan was cranked up to 11. Natasha and Garth Radick kept up the pace of the Wolf assaults to keep the pressure up. ilKhan Ulric increased the pressure on the Crusaders using his new powers. He added to the invading Clans by pairing enemies with the two strongest Crusader Clans which increased the competition for invasion targets and would add to the dissension in the Falcon & Jaguar ranks- not sure it really had a affect on the Falcons since Crichell was such a operator but the Jaguar's constant change of Khans and the election after Tukayyid would indicate it did work in that Clan. Ulric also negotiated the proxy fight that we know offered such enticing rewards but exploited the other Clans' weakness, and even with Ulric's logistics work the Wolves were not sitting too much better in the supply department.
Orwell, Ulric won since until Seth War followed Alaric's plan (another March to the Sea!) the Clans as a whole had not managed to break past the Truce line for the most part. A third of the Clans he knew were destroyed (Burrocks, Spirits, Mandrills, Hellions, Vipers, Jaguars), more were subsumed by the IS/Peri pops aka capturing the fly paper (Bears, Ravens, Scorpions, Cats, Warden Wolves), or abandoned any present moves against the IS (Adders, Coyotes, Cobras, Lions) This left the Crusader Wolves, Falcons and Horses . . . and Malvina's Falcons is what Ulric most feared for the future.
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I stumbled across the Orion IIC 'Burton' . . . and I have to say, ew . . . they ruined the mech. XL, HAG, and more ammo? A single ATM3 on a heavy mech?
While I would have liked to see a 2 go with a LB-10X and ATMs instead of LRM/SRM . . . or HAG & ATMs if we had to keep the gauss . . .
The Burton is a sad new toy against the rock solid old Orion IIC.
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Fortunately that's a one-off custom.
the REAL successor to the Orion IIc is the Orion C that we still (grumble grumble) do not have official record sheets for. But all my attempts to approximate it based on 3150 NTNU have indicated that it will be a beast and a half. Basically an advanced clantech ON2-M and that's wonderful.
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Curious as to what you are putting on it . . .
I mean, I see SFE, IS ES, Clan DHS, Clan weapons (GR, SLRM15, 3 MPL), and Clan FF armor . . . but I like the ERLL from the original and wish we had gotten a 2 with ATMs instead of LRM/SRMs. Hmm, how bad would the C be with that Watchdog CEWS.
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Fortunately that's a one-off custom.
the REAL successor to the Orion IIc is the Orion C that we still (grumble grumble) do not have official record sheets for. But all my attempts to approximate it based on 3150 NTNU have indicated that it will be a beast and a half. Basically an advanced clantech ON2-M and that's wonderful.
that's a big W for me
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Longinus looks like IS internal, AP weapon mount. Armor is clan.
Orion sounds right, it's er medium pulse lasers though, not plain MPL.
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Longinus looks like IS internal, AP weapon mount. Armor is clan.
Orion sounds right, it's er medium pulse lasers though, not plain MPL.
IS Internal means it still cannot jump with missiles, BUT it sounds like expected for a hasty patch to the design. Figure Advanced SRMs?
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IS Internal means it still cannot jump with missiles, BUT it sounds like expected for a hasty patch to the design. Figure Advanced SRMs?
Yep on both.
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TRO specifies an ASRM4.
For the Orion, the main point of contention in my interpretation is the ratio of ammunition and armor. the TRO blurb specifies that it has the same amount of armor as the ON2-M, but it does not specify whether that's the same amount of protection (points of armor) or tonnage of armor.
Gauss Rifle, SLRM-15, 3x ERMPL, and then my preferred interpretation is 189pts of FL armor, 2t Streak LRM, 3t Gauss.
For the Longinus C, I went ASRM-4 with 3 shots, Small Laser, Clan Armor, and it already has an AP Weapon Mount. Since MML showed a 0t Clan Magclamp system available, I added that too because of the decreased availability of Omnimechs, but there's no fluff to make me think it would have that. I just wanted it to for my own use.
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TRO specifies an ASRM4.
For the Orion, the main point of contention in my interpretation is the ratio of ammunition and armor. the TRO blurb specifies that it has the same amount of armor as the ON2-M, but it does not specify whether that's the same amount of protection (points of armor) or tonnage of armor.
Gauss Rifle, SLRM-15, 3x ERMPL, and then my preferred interpretation is 189pts of FL armor, 2t Streak LRM, 3t Gauss.
224 armor. 2 ton gauss.
For the Longinus C, I went ASRM-4 with 3 shots, Small Laser, Clan Armor, and it already has an AP Weapon Mount. Since MML showed a 0t Clan Magclamp system available, I added that too because of the decreased availability of Omnimechs, but there's no fluff to make me think it would have that. I just wanted it to for my own use.
it has a modular mount (220 kg) and an AP weapon mount. IS mag clamp. one-shot asrm-4. 10 clan armor.
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Yeah, since it cannot jump with a missile pack, not sure why you want that many shots on a med. And forget a small laser, its criminal if Clan BA is not mounting AP Gauss. The Mag Clamp is a nice addition, this is basically a proto-Elemental suit with advanced weapons.
Though I am still trying to find the rules bit where the AP mount dinks armor.
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224 armor. 2 ton gauss.
it has a modular mount (220 kg) and an AP weapon mount. IS mag clamp. one-shot asrm-4. 10 clan armor.
Answers that I have been waiting quite awhile on. Thanks!
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AP mount dinks armour by rounding up on .5+, if said weapon does enough damage to do so
It's then treated as 1 point damage.
TT
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Which is what I thought but I had someone saying it did no BT damage b/c they did not show up on some old sheets. I would have to look at the date on them.
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224 FL.
GR (16)
SLRM15 (16)
3 x ERMPL
2 x CASE II
Placement is per ON2-M.
I was never here.
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. . . which is REALLY interesting since the topic came up, and suddenly we have a few topics saying what those variants turned out to be . .
Pure Clan or mixed tech?
And if we had not heard the Longinus C before, then that was the first crack in the wall.
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Inner Sphere engine and Endo chassis.
From memory all of the Wolf NTNU in 3150 is from FWL factories so based on IS chassis.
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What I figured, but there is a weight difference in the CASE IIs.
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Crits seem off to me. Or I am stupid and doing something wrong, which is more likely
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The Orion 2M had 2 spare crits . . . basically 1 in each arm. Converting to the GR and SLRM frees up 2 crits . . . and the new CASE II take 1 & expanding the MPL to erMPL takes up the other 3. Basically the only difference is the 1 'Roll Again' in each arm goes away.
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Can I just say that I am absolutely in love with so many of our equipment options at the current point in the timeline?
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@Colt
Under the TechManual v3.0 found in the errata section on this forum, should have a better understanding...
UNFORTUNATLY: it's incomplete as of date... the newer House books and AToW and Companion have added more weapons, as has a few of the sourcebooks... including IO, which contains the Vintage weapons...
I'll share with you a copy of my report in a PM.
TT
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The Orion 2M had 2 spare crits . . . basically 1 in each arm. Converting to the GR and SLRM frees up 2 crits . . . and the new CASE II take 1 & expanding the MPL to erMPL takes up the other 3. Basically the only difference is the 1 'Roll Again' in each arm goes away.
Yeah, I figured what I was doing wrong. Works now
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So...
BattleMaster C 2
Orion C
Cheetah IIC
Defender II C
Longinus C
Have I missed anything?
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The Tempest C is Clan Protectorate rather than Clan Wolf. (I need to check that errata got posted..)
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Fixed.
I must admit the Clans finally getting into the FWL offered some interesting opportunities. Just imagine what we will do with Canopian factories.
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Fixed.
I must admit the Clans finally getting into the FWL offered some interesting opportunities. Just imagine what we will do with Canopian factories.
What Canopian factories? IIRC, Detroit, their largest of new technology fell into Capellan hands during the Dark Age. They might still be
getting Mechs from there, but all it takes is for Ilsa and Dao-shen/Danai to have a little argument and that source gets turned off rather quickly.
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So...
BattleMaster C 2
Orion C
Cheetah IIC
Defender II C
Longinus C
Have I missed anything?
. . . are you pushing their specs out the door? Cause I am still looking for the Juliano with cERLL from the Protectorate.
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What Canopian factories? IIRC, Detroit, their largest of new technology fell into Capellan hands during the Dark Age. They might still be
getting Mechs from there, but all it takes is for Ilsa and Dao-shen/Danai to have a little argument and that source gets turned off rather quickly.
Majesty Metals and Manufacturing has four locations all by itself and close to a dozen different chassis, more than Detroit does.
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huh. i combed through the available records a while back for ca 3089-3100 and only got eight 'mech chassis on three worlds. does that include vehicles or did i miss something?
Locust
Wasp
Ebony
Marauder
Phoenix Hawk
Stinger
Penthesilea
Shadow Hawk
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Koschei
Agrotera
Calliope
Four if you count Ballad II?
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ah, the Calliope and Agrotera are post-3100. haven't tackled that yet (mostly because the line reactivation info is super sporadic right now). The koschei I just had the wrong manufacturer entered.
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Well, it was a Tikonov design . . . but it was shared to Canopus- probably a deal where they were trying to get some sort of return for reviving the design since it did not fit Xin Sheng.
For those who know, does the Longinus C w/APG have better boarding performance than the original?
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. . . are you pushing their specs out the door?
No. Just teasing/encouraging discussion.
For those who know, does the Longinus C w/APG have better boarding performance than the original?
Mag Clamps don't add any bonuses. So no better than a MG or FL Longinus.
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Nothing for the extra point of armor or better SRMs . . . lol, though letting them off in a confined space would be a bad idea.
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What I find interesting is what these designs say about the Wolf Empire's Clantech manufacturing capabilities, or lack thereof. The fact that these are mixed-tech designs with Inner Sphere chassis and Clan weapons/armour seems to suggest that the Empire's capacity to build full Clantech BattleMechs is limited. Added to that, the weapons/armour could just as easily be built locally as they could be imported from the Sea Foxes.
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Or the hurry they are in.
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What I find interesting is what these designs say about the Wolf Empire's Clantech manufacturing capabilities, or lack thereof. The fact that these are mixed-tech designs with Inner Sphere chassis and Clan weapons/armour seems to suggest that the Empire's capacity to build full Clantech BattleMechs is limited. Added to that, the weapons/armour could just as easily be built locally as they could be imported from the Sea Foxes.
In the case of the Orion, there's nothing to gain from switching to Clan Grade Endosteel except downtime.
In the case of the Longinus, it saves on having to fill the things with harjel.
In the case of the Aerospace fighters, well, Wolves ARE desperate there, and need any planes now instead of good planes later.
There is an awful lot of manufacturing that we uprooted from the Clan OZ, that has not shown back up as being reestablished in the Wolf Empire, so I would assume that we are prioritizing the rapid production of good enough, over the eventual production of perfect.
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Who cares about the factories. What about the techs. Swathes of the civilian castes were left to the tender mercies of the Falcons and Horses. So where is the institutional knowledge to rebuild and run Clantech factories going to come from?
Frankly the whole Wolf Empire storyline is crazy and only reinforces my conjecture that the best way to relocate your faction is to prepare and carry as little as possible.
The only way this pays off for the Wolves is if they have enough momentum to continue on to Terra. If they lose momentum they have a lot of recovering to do.
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I'll have to grab FM3145 but i do recall them putting emphasis on most-essential-personnel, prioritizing scientists, engineers and technicians over brute labor.
I also have the theory that, while never stated, I suspect a lot of the surges to grab Lyran territory after we turned on the chain-yankers, was to recover the dropships full of Lower Castes that the Lyrans were dallying along with.
Here we go.
Furthermore, while they took their best and brightest scientists, technicians and merchants, the vast majority of the labor castes—the people who actually ran things—were abandoned as well.
Which, if I have to choose, I'm going to leave behind the people who lift heavy things, and work assembly line positions, and rotely press buttons, over the brains of the operation. You can take a factory worker from the Free Worlds League and they're not going to be any less capable than a Wolf OZ Factory Worker, considering that many of those Wolf OZ Factory Workers were of spheroid origin to begin with.
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What I find interesting is what these designs say about the Wolf Empire's Clantech manufacturing capabilities, or lack thereof. The fact that these are mixed-tech designs with Inner Sphere chassis and Clan weapons/armour seems to suggest that the Empire's capacity to build full Clantech BattleMechs is limited. Added to that, the weapons/armour could just as easily be built locally as they could be imported from the Sea Foxes.
I think it partly comes down to 'good enough' and the Clan mentality. Its not like the frontline galaxies are not really getting their pick of the gear. Most of the new 'C' stuff is to bulk out the touman for the freebirth leevies. It delivers the heavier firepower of Clean weapons but lacks some of the finesse/'durability for load' you can find with pure Clan designs. With that said, having a SFE for what are obviously secondline designs keeps them durable when they do not need the speed the frontline Clusters do with their 5/8 standard.
It will be interesting to see if they use them as fodder for the elite.
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Here we go.
Which, if I have to choose, I'm going to leave behind the people who lift heavy things, and work assembly line positions, and rotely press buttons, over the brains of the operation. You can take a factory worker from the Free Worlds League and they're not going to be any less capable than a Wolf OZ Factory Worker, considering that many of those Wolf OZ Factory Workers were of spheroid origin to begin with.
While you are correct to prioritize the brains you are vastly underestimating the button pushers.
There are a series of subtle things that they do built up over generations and passed on through training that are lost if you lose them.
A well publicized recent example is the US's inability to build a Saturn V despite haven't all the plan from a mere 50 years ago.
It is why contractors talk about a continuous drumbeat of production over decades rather than bursts.
And that is before you get into the sheer number of best and brightest the Wolves would have needed to relocate to act as overseers across a wide variety of projects. And we haven't begun talking about how to motivate the IS workers to perform and change their working cultures for a hostile invader.
It is an ugly ugly scenario for the Wolves.
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I mean, to take your Saturn V analogy, it's more like taking the plans and data to build Saturn V rockets, and taking a crew who builds Soyuz rockets, and re-training them to produce the new rocket. The Wolf Empire has plenty of factory employees to work with, they just have new projects for them.
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A well publicized recent example is the US's inability to build a Saturn V despite haven't all the plan from a mere 50 years ago.
It is an ugly ugly scenario for the Wolves.
Its not quite that . . . part of the problem is the Saturn V is using outdated tech (Space Cowboys got that right) and just like that 16" gun for the Iowa that was never replaced, there is nothing anywhere building the parts. We no longer cast guns like that or to that size. And so do not have the machines that make the machines involved in the casting. Even the F-22 which recently (compared to the Saturn) shut down would take a while to get back to running because the assembly line has been re-tooled and the parts scattered/recycled.
IIRC, there is a study or figure bandied about that it takes 10 years to restart a shut down R&D program to return it to the level it was functioning at the time of shut down. While the notes maybe written in English, the full meaning of what is on the page is not truly comprehended.
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Okay. BattleTech example.
The Federated Suns are the autocannon faction. Where does it say that? It is not in a rule book. It is institutional knowledge that the community noticed 30 years ago and has kept alive largely through word of mouth. That is the sort of thing that gets lost.
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But . . . you are talking about that timeframe having passed. The Crusader Wolves started their invasion of League territory in 3138 with support personnel already en route behind them since they started moving them to the League-Commonwealth border while they feinted into Republic territory. While they do start producing the two new Omnis, Warwolf & Wulfen- which uses some spin off IS tech on both (Reactive & Stealth) and are being built on one of the first worlds taken from the Commonwealth. In fact the Warwolf has limited production b/c of converting a IS production line to Clan spec equipment- I think you have beaten Steve over the head with that information a time or two.
The Warwolf is actually a example you are looking for . . . the Wolves have problems by TRO3145 entry (7 years) getting production up to speed so that it becomes their prime heavy. Nothing indicates that the Crusader Wolves are building any of their old secondline designs anywhere in the Empire- no Night Wolves, Tundra Wolves, Lobo, Sun Cobra, or anything. But by TRO3150 (12 years FWL, 10 years for LC) IMO we have a logical move to equip the touman, put Clan spec weapons on IS designs they are already able to produce. Any Orion 2Ms captured can be refit to the Orion C, salvaged Longinus can be improved to the C, and the same factories churning out the Clan spec weapons also make replacement weapons for any Clan mechs damaged. While not full Clan spec it still gives the Wolf forces a slight qualitative advantage and something they can achieve without the problems they ran into with the Warwolf line. Granted I would expect the bugs could have been worked out if the Crusader Wolves had not been constantly needing replacement equipment so its not like the whole thing can be shut down to rework the lines.
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Okay. BattleTech example.
The Federated Suns are the autocannon faction. Where does it say that? It is not in a rule book.
My personal theory is that it comes from fluff text on the Enforcer in the BT CCG that spread memetically. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Enforcer_(ENF-4R)_(CCG_-_Unlimited) It's arguably not even true beyond 3025 era, and even the it's mostly the Centurion, Enforcer, Rifleman/Jagermech and Victor. Their custom succession wars era marauder even strips off the AC.
Well, the RAC comes back in and validates it a little, but I have to question whether the meme prompted that, or vice versa.
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Forgetting LACs? AC special ammo?
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When the Wolves turned against the Lyrans during Hammerfall Epsilon seized a lot of Lyran supply dumps and shipments that were for the forces involved in attacking the League worlds. They got their pick of the equipment and I assume the rest went to the formation of the new freebirth garrison clusters. The amount of the equipment was enough to help the frontline galaxies shuffle their vehicles off to the secondline & garrison galaxies. But what Epsilon ended up with lowered their speed so much they were relegated to defensive roles since they could no longer perform in the typical cavalry style.
I would think its what was in production for Defiance and TharHes primarily with maybe some Coventry designs. Using FM3145's RATs, if you were the galaxy commander, what would you keep and what would you pass on? Note- I pulled the Clan designs since IMO those would not have been passed on. Seriously, what Galaxy Commander or Star Colonel is going to pass on a Viking IIC, Hellstar or Savage Wolf?
Assaults-
King Crab -009
Sunder Omni
Atlas II
Fafnir 5X
Atlas S2
Zeus X4
Battlemaster 10S
Berzerker C3
Banshee 9S
Zeus 9T
Thunderhawk 7S
Emperor 6S
Highlander 738
Annihilator 4A
Heavy-
Scourge WD1, WF1
Mangonel 3W
Warhammer 10CT, 9S
Gotterdammerung 20S
Ursa 2A
Black Hawk KU Omni
Barghest 4T
Marauder 9W2
Defiance 3S
Archer 7S
Thanatos 6S
Gallant 7-0
Thunderbolt 17S
Axman 3S
Rifleman 7M
Mediums-
Mongoose II 267
Thunder Fox L8
Blitzkreig 4F
Gauntlet Omni
Nightsky 6T
Uziel 8S
Phoenix Hawk 7S
Starslayer 3Dr
Griffin 6S
Hatchetman 7S
Clint 6S
Hunchback 5S
Eisenfaust 7X
Vulcan 5Sr
Light-
Wolfhound 2H, 5
Arctic Fox Omni
Talon 6W
Havoc P6
Firestarter M2
Razirback 10S
Stiletto 6S
Scarabus 9T
Commando 7S
Ostscout 9S
Stinger 7S
Storm Raider R3
Dart 4S
Considering some of these, I would also have had them shipped to the sibkos for training tools.
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I'm curious how the dynamics (if the writers/developers wrote it down as bedrock of thing to come) leaving their workforce behind will have with the Empire? Could it usher deClanification of Wolves? Not necessary rightaway but certainly making you a minority among people of Inner Sphere people.
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They took back some of the civilians, have to wonder about taking Clan enclaves on any Republic world (during the Prefecture IX & VIII invasions), and welcomed in any Warden Wolves who came their way. Alaric may be born of IS genes, but he seems to be taking a harder line than Magnusson.
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Honestly? If I was a Wolf Empire Galaxy Commander, I'd take whatever I could get. Many of their units are under-strength and with the combination of a permanent war footing and a shortage of Clantech designs, they're not in a position to be choosy. If I have holes in my unit, I want them filled ASAP so I'm operationally ready.
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Except Epsilon was not involved in Hammerfall, and it was what they took from the Lyran dumps that gave them a 'slow' rep. They are not Zeta or the new freebirth clusters either so they were not hurting for equipment in the first place- just had vehicle trinaries.
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Checking in and standing by after several months of being absent. Glory to the Empire! Victory for the Wolves!
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Throwback . . . Friday?
I wanted to go back to some fun days and test out a MM feature.
I selected a veteran Nova-
Gargoyle D
Gargoyle Prime (2/3)
Timberwolf C (2/2)
Ice Ferret A (2/3)
Adder D (3/2)
Elemental Laser x3
Elemental MG
Elemental Flamer
BV came up as 22800-ish
Against a representative AFFC force on a large rolling hills set of maps (96x96 hexes)
Two mixed mech lances
2 companies of mixed vehicles
all regulars and randomly selected using 3051 RAT
Selected a BV window of 24k-30k
I stuck to zell against mechs, except for the Gargoyle which was tasked to thing vehicles, until it was pretty well mixed up- which caused problems b/c the bot would init sink and move the duel targets out of LOS like it knew what was happening. This made me have to move around terrain to get LOS back and spend turns killing vehicles. I let the Elementals fire on anything, they were also useful for killing off veh crews to prevent sinks.
Lost a pristine point to the MG ammo on a Maxim brewing up- 60 pts of AE damage! Things were going OK until the Garg D took a long range hit with a double CT TAC . . . gyro! One turn later my Ice Ferret took a shot a punch in the back that gave me a double engine crit. With that it was time to pull back from the middle of the map, dragging the enemy armor into what was left of the Elementals. One medium mech and a vehicle were in retreat with a Drillson already having fled by forced withdraw. By that point the Nova Commander in the Garg D had put a ERLL into a Exterminator 5A's head, put that pilot to sleep an a point of Elementals seared it off with a Laser hit. The Timberwolf C blew a arm off the Archer 2K before getting the LRM ammo the next turn. The Adder had dropped a Thorn that broke zell, pair of Saladins had been blown out, a Warrior had a forced landing (survived, isorla!), Karnov AC was not as lucky and another 10 vehicles littered the battlefield.
The AFFC's biggest mech had been badly positioned, Stalker, and due to the Wolf speed was being left behind- it only got in 1 LRM hit, the other salvo dealt with by the Timber Wolf C's AMS. Remaining in play was a Firestarter (Mirage), Vindicator 1SIC, and a Assassin 101 supported by the vehicles . . .
Can the Wolves keep moving enough to finish off the FedCom forces?
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Its Ruin to Run . . .
Need a bit more armor, the Timber Wolf took a CT double engine TAC a few turns after the Garg D went down so it needs repaired, and shot most the ammo dry on everything, 50% combat effective losses among the Elementals. Original BV of 22200, 54% remains but only 7% of the AFFC forces survived the encounter.
But the Wolves wrecked the blocking force, chasing the few survivors fleeing back towards their base. Poor slow poke Stalker was left out in the boonies after it got a few salvos off. It would be too slow to affect the Trial of Possession for the world, a green warrior could go clean it up later. Retreating would be a Peregrine, Drillson, Partisan (LRM), Scorpion, Vedette, and Lynx which lost both side torsos (no guns!). Nearly had the Lynx before it could flee, so the only thing that would truly get away would be the Peregrine and Drillson- nothing has the speed left.
Destroyed-
Saladin
Rotunda
Flatbed (LRM)
Exterminator 4A (lost a head)
Thorn
Pike Support (Missile)
Hetzer WAG (SRM)
Partisan (LRM)
Firestarter
Brutus
Abandoned-
Pegasus
Scimitar
Scimitar
Drillson
Karnov (AC)
Sturmfeur
Warrior H-7
Behemoth (Armor)
Vindicator 1SIC
Scorpion
Sturmfeur
Destroyed w/o salvage chance (ammo blown)
Archer 2K
Maxim (SRM4)
Brutus
Sleeping-
Assassin 101, 5 pilot hits before being able to flee
Wolves lost about 13 Elementals and the Garg D fell with Nova Commander (1/2) but he was not killed and the mech was just a engine mission kill though the LA was destroyed.
Once I used a hill to split up a Sturm, Behemoth, Brutus, and the Scorpions from supporting the faster vehicles and mechs then the AFFC force was in trouble. I probably could have swung out around their flank and sped off for the objective since only the Assassin and Firestarter had the speed to keep up with the Nova after they knocked out the Garg D.
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My local group is running a Invasion era tournament . . . and I jumped to get the Invasion Wolves' 13th Wolf Guards. Technically you could have 3 flavors of Wolves- Invasion Wolves and after 3058 the split, Warden Wolves and Crusader Wolves. We use the MUL for folks to pick their units but since I am playing a 3052-esque unit, I am not using any of the H or E configs, no armor, no alternate BA types, and just Omnis . . . not using that single standard Battlemech that was in the cluster either.
So we are doing some warm up random matches, and I do not show up with my actual force until the first one. For that fight I was using a Linebacker A (3/4), Adder B (4/4) and Elemental-L (4/4) to land around 5k with pilot skills. I faced off against a Awesome 9Q, Catapult C1 and Locust 1E, all with 3/4 pilots. Our map was a few city blocks nestled in some hills. Buildings went from L1 to L3 or L4 buildings with a heavy woods park nestled in the middle. The Catapult took up a overwatch position in the woods on my right flank while the Awesome and Locust went to the left. I moved from center to my right, Adder was blocked from LOS by buildings and a hill while dropping off the Elementals. The Linebacker walked forward 6 hexes to get a clear LOS to the Awesome that had parked in heavy woods. Hit with a ERLL on a 11 to tag the Awesome's arm.
Next turn, the Locust raced up the side to try to flank and lodged in some light woods. The Elementals jumped forward, the Awesome walked 1 hex up to light woods. The Catapult stayed on the L1 in light woods to offer fire support. The Linebacker cut left and ran right at the Locust getting the +3 to end up 5 hexes from the Locust . . . hit the RT to open it up but miffed the crit roll which would have transferred any crits to the CT. Awesome missed with all 3 PPCs and the Adder took a peppering of LRMs even behind partial.
The Elementals jumped to land in the nearest heavy woods of the park in the center of the map. Catapult and Awesome stayed still so the Adder ran to the left placing a building in LOS but closing up with the Locust that had not moved but getting a line on that Awesome. The Locust ran behind the Adder and was 3 hexes from the Elementals. The Linebacker then walked a half-circle to shelter behind a building from the Catapult and Awesome- time to put down the speeding backstabber. The Locust spotted the Linebacker for the Catapult but also fired on the Linebacker- whiff. The Elementals missed with their small lasers but did not fire the SRMs. The Linebacker connected on the Locust with a ERLL, LRM5, and both ERML while the LRM15 missed. Hit RA to go internal, blew out the RT w/ transfer to CT and a ERML hit the RL to strip the armor, missed on both crit chances (RT & CT) though remained standing. Adder took a PPC hit but gave back a LPL to the Awesome.
Ended up grinding forward, the Locust lost both side torsos to have 1 IS left in the CT to run away b/c forced withdraw. The Elementals advanced on the Awesome that was not moving much . . . first SRM spread at 6 hexes, hit with all 10 SRMs. Which is a 2nd head hit, after it took a LBX pellet, and a CT TAC to get the engine. The Awesome ended up taking four head hits through the fight- LBX pellet, SRM, Elemental Small Laser (range of 2), and the final hit was a ERML from the Adder at 5 hexes . . . it had been opened up quite a bit. CT was open with two Engine crits, side torso was open crit to the ECM and DHS, and b/c the player had pushed ended up at +14 heat at one point. Adder took a side torso engine crit and had a leg blown off by a single internal point of damage from the Catapult 2nd to last turn. Locust end up being able to flee . . . the outstanding Elementals hit with 15 SRMs total and 3 Small laser hits. Linebacker was pretty untouched, but a TAC snuck through on the left torso to get the engine but missed the final shot on the Locust and just banged up the armor on the Catapult before time was over.
Decisive victory for the Invasion Wolves.
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Sounds like a fun time!
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Quick question for our resident Awoo's. What was the Wolves capital world in the Homeworlds called?
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Pretty sure it was Eden, but I'm thinking about it now and I'm not sure if it's ever been made explicit.
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Quick question for our resident Awoo's. What was the Wolves capital world in the Homeworlds called?
It was on Strana Mechty, along with that of the Sea Foxes / Diamond Sharks. I don't think the specific capital city / government complex / what have you was ever explicitly named.
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Pretty sure it was Eden, but I'm thinking about it now and I'm not sure if it's ever been made explicit.
Odd :s What other worlds did the Wolves control in the Homeworlds? Trying to find a factory for them :)
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The only world they controlled outright, at least as of 3067, was Tranquil. But they had enclaves on Circe, Dagda, Eden, Glory, Grant's Station, Hoard, Paxon, Roche, Strana Mechty and Tiber. But yeah, I checked and confirmed that per Warriors of Kerensky, their Strana Mechty enclave was their capital.
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Perfect! Thank you Kojak!
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Has there been any talk anything going on with next book finally see Devlin's showdown with Khan Warren-Steiner?
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Warren? ???
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Warren? ???
Sorry Ward. I was typing too fast for my brain to register it. xp
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I am wondering if anyone has played that out . . . does the Ferro-Lam armor give you enough advantage to cover that 25t difference between mechs?
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I am wondering if anyone has played that out . . . does the Ferro-Lam armor give you enough advantage to cover that 25t difference between mechs?
Well, given that Ferro-Lam armor provides a 75-ton 'Mech with the effective armor of a 90-tonner, and it'll be equipped with "OP PLZ NERF" Clantech, I think it could comfortably fight an Atlas II.
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Except Stone's Atlas is not stock either.
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Except Stone's Atlas is not stock either.
True. I think it'll come down to a kind of 'last shot from a crippled mech' kind of thing.
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Another victory for the Invasion Wolves!
Finally trotted out my actual tournament force- Timber Wolf C (3/5), Mist Lynx C (4/4) and Elemental L (4/4)- which gives me quite a bit of range but nearly 1/3 of the BV is quite fragile. I did load Swarm ammo in one of the LRM bins for the Timberwolf since I was expecting to face grouped IS opponents. Opponents were randomly assigned and I ended up facing another experienced player who was representing the Free Worlds League with a Awesome 8Q (3/5), Hercules 9001 (3/5), and 2 Spider 8M (4/5) who was supposed to be experienced.
A bit of sniping at range for a single hit occurred with a ERLL to the AWS CT, but the third turn caused a problem when he managed to connect with the right arm of the Mist Lynx with a 10 point hit . . . which was enough to melt it down. This put the Mist Lynx into forced with draw, though the Timberwolf started giving back the damage- everything that connected on the AWS except a 3 point LRM hit and the ERML hit the Awesome's CT. I started to lose initiative for a series, which having the smaller number of units on the battlefield was rough. My Elementals were moving up while the Timber Wolf was backing to use terrain to block LOS to at least one of the two larger opponents. The Timber Wolf ended up having to turn and twist to keep the Awesome at bay behind some woods while his Hercules, which had taken minor damage, backed up behind some L1 hill. My fresh Elementals ended up above him on the L2 . . . The ERPPC and LB-10X missed though a SSRM2 and MPL hit me. AMS took the SSRM2 down by 1, unfortunately not able to reduce the attack to nothing. The Timber Wolf hit with a ERLL, LRM15, UAC/5 and ERML, missing with the other LRM15. Nothing in the attack went into the dirt. Then the Elementals opened fire and hit with 2 Small Lasers and 6 missiles . . . one Small Laser burst hit the head, and a missile managed to do the final damage to get internal on the arm that had the MPL. He was awake from the hit, but when I rolled for the crit on the arm I got a 12- Limb Blown Off! And then the Herc pilot fell . . . The Elementals had taken 3 PPC blasts from the Awesome however, all 9s or better- but no troopers were lost.
He got up the next turn and went into retreat around the curve of the woods, the Awesome came forward, the Elementals landed 2 hexes away from the Awesome and my Timber Wolf ran forward 7 hexes and turned to face the Awesome which was 7 hexes away. Needed a 6 for everything but the ERML which was a 8 . . . missed on a LRM rack again but everything else hit. Failed the attempt on a double-tap but no jam at least, more damage spread on the torso with the PPC arm getting some attention . . . and a 5 point LRM hit to the head. The Elementals opened up, hit with three Small Lasers and another six SRMs . . . one of which was Snake Eyes! too bad it was the LT . . . or not, since the crit roll failed.
The Awesome ran into some light woods, the Elementals dropped out of the sky into the heavy woods right in front of them, the Herc ran around to the other side of the light woods while my Timberwolf ran forward to be 2 hexes from the Awesome with the Spiders 3 & 4 hexes away. Fire away! Both LRMs fired Swarm ammo, this was the reason I brought it! ERLL, UAC/5, ERML and both LRM15 hit from that range, but only 11 of the 30 missiles hit the Awesome . . . 14 (8 & 6) hit one of the Spiders, and the last (1 & 4) hit the Hercules. The Awesome weathered the pounding with nothing getting past armor . . . but it was enough to knock it down. The Spider had armor blown off but the Herc . . . the single LRM that hit it got a LT TAC . . . and crit the engine, so the Herc was going to run hotter.
Winning initiative again definitely helped, the Awesome tried to get up . . . fell the first time and took a pilot hit- unfortunately staying awake. It just stayed standing in the woods after running. The Elementals leaped for the light woods on the other side of the Herc . . . which then back up to a L1 hill and was 3 hexes away. The Timber Wolf ran forward to close on the Herc, placing a single hex of the hill between them. The Spiders decided to jump off to catch the Mist Lynx and knock it out of the fight instead of letting it make the slow retreat to the edge of the battlefield. More fire cost the Herc its LBX arm along with stripping the armor on that side torso . . . and it fell.
The time ran out on the battle as the Timber Wolf had chased the Herc as it engaged in its forced withdraw, blowing through a rear side and removing all rear center armor . . . the Herc fell again, straight back onto its rear CT . . . 1 crit . . . rolled up to crit the gyro. Meanwhile the Timberwolf had taken some armor damage and 1 PPC hit to the rear side torso had gone internal but no crits.
End tally was a crippled Hercules in exchange for a crippled Mist Lynx & crippled Elemental point (1 dead, 2 w/o armor, 2 completely intact) for a 3-2 victory for the Wolves. So 8 or so turns in roughly 2 hours of play. Next opponent will be another random selection and then the next match I think will be power matched (example, 3-0 will play 3-0 all the way down so 1-2 will play 1-2). The next stage will add another 5k, which will be plenty of fun.
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That sounds like fun. I miss playing.
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What was that Lyran quote from the Invasion, something about what it was like to fight the Wolves? I can never get it exactly right
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Nvm, got it . . . one of my favorites-
What's it like fighting the Wolf? Imagine lightning on legs, or an earthquake with arms, or catastrophe with genius, or just pure hell on wheels.
-A soldier of the Lovinac militia to a reporter, 2 June 3050
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I am wondering if anyone has played that out . . . does the Ferro-Lam armor give you enough advantage to cover that 25t difference between mechs?
It was played out Gencon 20... I believe 12? Both the Unity City Wolf v ROTS Battle, and the smaller Stone v.s Alaric that included their personal forces. Wolves won, Alaric won.
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I knew it was the diorama I just was unaware if it had been played.
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Anyone have a list of what factories were captured from the Marik-Stewart Commonwealth & other League territories? From the chunk bitten out of the Lyran Commonwealth?
I know Kali Yama on Kalidasa was taken, now produces the Orion C but is also where the Stormcrow III was being built. Figure that is the Orion line getting converted and one of the medium lines- maybe the Treb to match weights- for the Stormcrow III. Which still leaves Perseus, Griffin, Anzu, Hunchback, and Wasp lines for mechs. Maybe the Herc was still being built which gives them a IS 5/8 heavy design, or maybe it was converted to the Anzu line in 3098. For BA the Longinus was converted to the C, and maybe a IS Std line the Wolves also have operating.
Keystone's Earthwerks-FWL Inc produces the Shockwave and Trebaruna when taken, and later has the Tomahawk II being built. Maybe it was still producing Battlemasters, Thug, Grand Titan, TBolt, Apollo, Bloodhound, Phoenix Hawk and Stinger. I do wonder if the Apollo line was converted for the Shockwave, and which assault line became the Tomahawk II? As far as the assaults go, the MSC was producing new Battlemasters going into the 3130s since the Silverhawks CO was given one- so did the Thug or Grand Titan become the quad line? Exeter Org produces the R10, which is great for the Empire and sucks for the Lyrans and Leaguers. They also make a Pegasus hovertank, or did anyway.
The Wolves also picked up the Xiphos production facility on Washburn.
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Another round in my local tournament last night, turned out it was a grudge match . . . A Free Rasalhague Republic force encountered a Wolf patrol. Griffin 1DS (3/4), Cicada 3F (3/3), and Venom 9K (3/3) ran into my Timber Wolf, Mist Lynx and the Elementals riding along. The Rasies rushed the Wolf force trying to negate the range, pushing the Wolves into a more defensive posture The Griffin pilot wasted all six of his LRM shots, only hitting his target once with all twelve missiles that survived the Mist Lynx's AMS slamming into the hillside the mech was crouched beside. While hard fought by the Rasies, they showed little skill as mechwarriors- the only thing that made it even close was that each Wolf mech took a hit to the head that stripped it of armor . . . the Mist Lynx even took damage in the cockpit with life support and the Active Probe both being fried by the left over energy from the Cicada's ERPPC.
The first to fall was the Cicada, taking nearly a full salvo broadside from the Timber Wolf- a ERLL, ERML, UAC/5 with a double tap, and each LRM15 hitting with 12 missiles . . . lost a leg, a engine hit, a medium laser was hit. Already having taken a ERML hit to the head from the Mist Lynx, the pilot was KO'd from his mech slamming to the ground. The mech also went into shut down from the heat. The Elementals closed and was positioned on the hill above the fire down upon the prone mech when the Spider walked in their direction trying to get among the battle armor while it was cooling. It was a poor choice as the Timber Wolf came around a hill to fire on the Griffin from 150m- momentum had shifted to the Wolves, which was evidenced when the Griffin also fell that turn from its right leg being opened up with melted armor seizing up that hip. The Griffin toppled to the ground but was still a threat which caused the Elementals to shift back. The Venom tried to get in the Timber Wolf's face to save the Griffin as it stood, all that did was let the Wolf pilot blast the light mech point blank- a once proud fleet light mech was sawed in half to be a scatter of debris at the Wolf's feet. All that remained was to chase down the fleeing Griffin, whose speed was reduced to 3/5/5 . . . the medium mech was in such bad shape, it turned its back on the pursuing Timber Wolf- more armor remained to the rear. The move threw off the Clan mechwarrior, who fired as if leading the fleeing mech (yes, I missed four of five 6s that turn). Leaping elemental fired upon the medium while the Mist Lynx circled back in front of the Griffin to cut off its retreat.
The Griffin collapsed a short time later as more lasers & missiles found the faltering engine. The Cicada awoke and fired off a single ERPPC hit that took off the gun arm on the Mist Lynx before it went down to the Wolves. Clan Wolf lost a bit of armor off the Timber Wolf, 2t of LRM ammo, half ton of UAC/5 ammo, and the unfortunately positioned gun arm of the Mist Lynx . . . leaving the Rasalhague command wondering what fate befell their probe.
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(https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/64828955_10156343625578148_1609130190598832128_o.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_oc=AQlVfJnLgJRaa_AochsN-J4RguPFmoO7rh6fkZBsPw02ubJYkPRMDB-V6m32-SDo4v8&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=1ce09158faac364cfbada9d5c4330f20&oe=5D85EE68)
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(https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/64828955_10156343625578148_1609130190598832128_o.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_oc=AQlVfJnLgJRaa_AochsN-J4RguPFmoO7rh6fkZBsPw02ubJYkPRMDB-V6m32-SDo4v8&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=1ce09158faac364cfbada9d5c4330f20&oe=5D85EE68)
Where did the art come from? I love it!
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it's for the kickstarter mockup of the clan invasion box set expansion
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Unfortunate events today, I must talk with the techs about the work they did on the Timber Wolf (or maybe I was jinxed when my 13th Wolf Guards Timber Wolf got bumped to the floor, and broke . . . I had to sub a Falcon painted TW). Missing full salvos of 5s (ERLL, ERML, UAC/5 & 2 LRM15) against a nearby Raven Stormcrow C was difficult to over come . . . and when the Mechwarrior driving the Mist Lynx occupied the heavy woods hex the Timber Wolf was going to move into, it left the Wolf warrior sitting next to a hill. Dezgra Snow Raven warrior could not hit the target with his weapons, instead he resorted to a chalcas kick!
Which connected with the head. Wolves lost that battle even though I managed to cripple the Stormcrow C and a Salamander point. Thirteenth Wolf Guards went 2-1 with a good showing of points. Next up will be a bracket and adding another 5k to your force.
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Even if it didn't go so great, you got to take Aidan Pryde out for a ride. That's pretty cool. Pardon all my contractions.
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224 FL.
GR (16)
SLRM15 (16)
3 x ERMPL
2 x CASE II
Placement is per ON2-M.
I was never here.
So going back to this . . . I played with a Atlas that had SLRM20 . . . and I have to say, that was nice for the very simple fact I knew I was going to get a PSR every time it hit. I am still not sure I like the Streak LRMs for the weight, BUT . . . with tight resources and placed in the hands of garrison warriors? This makes some sense.
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Honestly it is mostly new toy syndrome. If I was min maxing I would never use an ER Pulse Laser.
That said, SLRMs are direct fire weapons. They suit a trooper Mech like an Orion. Also at the time I had just come off the Vikings IIC and was sniffing around for IS LRMs that I could turn into weight savings for new heavy weight Clan tech.
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Oh, no complaints . . . like I said, it would be used for the same reason on a garrison machine as SSRMs- you know when it hits, its all going to hit. It just has the benefit of causing a PSR when it does and no other single Streak system can do that in game. The 20 size rack being a Streak system also offsets the low salvo count per ton, so while I prefer 2 or more tons per LRM20 when possible a single ton with Streak is more palatable.
Now, do Streak LRMs make sense on a unit compared to regular LRMs? It can be debated, but not for quite the same reasons you would on a IS design- because its Clan they are not going to use as many of those alternate munitions.
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The nice thing about SLRMs, is that they are exactly the weight of the corresponding IS LRM Launcher. So, if you are converting a spheroid mech and want a straight-across-the-board-swap that's an upgrade, it's hard to beat a SLRM.
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Eh . . . no IDF, no special munitions, and as you mentioned they get a weight penalty from a Clan launcher perspective. But like I said, for a secondline mech being used to garrison and give a edge in abilities over fielding a pure IS machine? Sure.
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The lack of indirect fire and special munitions should not come up much in honorable combat.
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The lack of indirect fire and special munitions should not come up much in honorable combat.
The greatest honor is in winning, everything else is secondary. If you lose honorably you still lost, glory to the victor.
That said, the Streak 20 is arguably most useful when compared to any other Clan weapon as a guaranteed PSR if it connects with very good range. Fire it at some random secondary target you're not currently actively engaging and if it doesn't go off you've lost nothing; if it does go off you make at least one more enemy struggle to stay on their feet.
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Fire it at some random secondary target you're not currently actively engaging and if it doesn't go off you've lost nothing; if it does go off you make at least one more enemy struggle to stay on their feet.
Now i'm imagining something knocking down four targets at once...
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Hmm, did the Crusader Wolves take over a Longbow line?
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Hmm, did the Crusader Wolves take over a Longbow line?
Well, there is a Starcorps Plant on Terra that evidently produced the LGB-12C.
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the wolves are close to a few longbow lines but don't control them on the eve of ilclan - emris iv and loburg.
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Maybe next year we'll find out. There zero jabber about the next part of the Shattered Fortress/IllClan sequel. My gut feeling it's will be surprise or not at all until they mention it. There not even a name for the thing.
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Natasha Kerensky strikes again!
Tonight was Round 2 in our tournament; add another 5k to the force you had, minimum 6 units and 3 hours of play.
Rnd 1
Timber Wolf C (3/5)- 3000 BV
Mist Lynx C (4/4)
Elemental L (3/5)
Rnd 2
Dire Wolf Widowmaker (2/4)- nearly 4900 BV
Clan Motorized Point (LRM) 3 gunners, 65 BV x2
Leading her 13th Wolf Guards, Natasha fended off a FedCom raid from troops who come from old Lyran formations. The reinforced medium lance that her patrol found did not hesitate to engage but showed some reluctance to close. The mechwarrior later determined to be the force commander seemed stunned when on the initial salvo his Griffin 3M took three solid hits at long range from the Black Widow . . . two ERPPC hits and a single LPL though the fourth glassed a rocky outcropping instead of hitting the fire support medium. Armor was stripped off his LRM ammo bins though none of the missiles were touched off.
Natasha crested her own hill to settle among some light woods, even if she was not perched as high as the Griffin. The Wolf Spiders did not accord the raiders the honor of zellbriggen though they tended to focus on targets as they closed. A Nightsky rushing towards her Dire Wolf and harassing the Elementals fell to the ground in the midst of the point when she connected with all four heavy energy weapons- the ERPPC burning off the oddly shaped head. A Marauder 5D worked its way around a hill to close up, hitting with ERPPCs as it walked forward . . . into her guns, the next salvo sent one of her ERPPC blasts into the Marauder's head as well even if the Ultra 20 missed (Need 6, Roll 5). The Timber Wolf spent the time sprinkling LRMs over a Barghest and the Griffin. After the Marauder fell the Lyran Hatchetman dropped from the sky to land behind a ridge trying to snipe at the Dire Wolf only to find the Timber Wolf could run up and be sixty meters away on the other side of the ridge.
The Hatchetman pilot proved extremely foolish, calling out Natasha in the Dire Wolf by name in a challenge. When she acknowledged the challenge, the rest of the Wolves ignored the crazy medium pilot- she had undoubtedly killed two Lyrans so far that day- which at that point left two infantry points and the Mist Lynx without a target. The Timber Wolf pilot held his place on the hill firing down at the Barghest over 300 meters away, a spread of missiles slamming through its hefty chest to crack the engine shielding.
The Wolves lost a motorized infantry point while the Barghest and Griffin moved away from the mechs to chase the Elemental point to finish it off. When they swung back, Natasha pivoted to meet the two mechs by running into some light woods and the Hatchetman who landed 90 meters away. The Hatcheman was in bad shape . . . its center torso barely had any armor, the non-hatchet arm was gone, the hatchet arm was damaged, one leg had been badly damaged, the head had taken a missile strike, and the pilot was riding his heat to get in close. Natasha split her fire (time was about up)since everyone was in short range to give a double-tap at the barely damaged Barghest, send the particle cannon, a medium and small laser after the cannon while putting both large pulses at the Hachetman.
Both UAC/20 blasts hit the chest of the Barghest, stripping most of the remaining armor from the center but breaking into the internal portion of the on the right side . . . the PPC missed completely but the med hit that right torso and the small hit the center. Down to a single point of internal structure on the right torso and the cannon taken out by damage. The two large pulse lasers hit the center of the Hatchetman . . . or what was left of the center, the whole mech collapsed around the damage (2 & 7 locations, well no need for the crit rolls). The Barghest turned aside from the assault mech, instead trying to cut down the Mist Lynx that could have pursued any survivors . . . a full twenty submunitions exploded across the front of the light mech, causing the right arm to fall off still attached to a piece of the shoulder that had ripped away from the torso. The Timber Wolf kept its fire on the Barghest but still that side torso held up . . . until the infantry point fired in support of their Khan . . . the small infantry-scale warheads snapped off the last of the internal structure keeping the mech properly formed. The XL engine was ripped apart causing the dog-like mech to crash into the tore up ground of the battlefield.
Natasha Kerensky proves herself at a point most other warriors have been consigned to solhama . . . three outright kills, credit for the Barghest, and part of the crippling of the Griffin that withdrew. Her left torso and arm had drawn a lot of fire, but most of her mech was barely touched.
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Natasha Kerensky proves herself at a point most other warriors have been consigned to solhama . . . three outright kills, credit for the Barghest, and part of the crippling of the Griffin that withdrew. Her left torso and arm had drawn a lot of fire, but most of her mech was barely touched.
Seyla. ;)
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Running Invasion Era 13th Wolf Guards, how can you not plop her down on the table when you get a chance?
Pretty sure I was going to wreck anything coming at her- which is why the standing on the hill to challenge the IS- so I was not too worried about sinking the BV into that single mech. My opponent's eyes got a bit big when he learned I needed 6s to hit his Griffin out at 18 hexes with the LPLs. And I will admit the two headcaps made things faster, but putting 50 pts on the Nightsky and 52 points (20, 15, 10, 7) on the Marauder would still have ended up wrecked either turn.
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My opponent's eyes got a bit big when he learned I needed 6s to hit his Griffin out at 18 hexes with the LPLs.
Should have been 4s. She’s not 2/4. She’s 0/0! ;)
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Eh . . . had to fit it in 5k BV w/ 3 units, hence the cheap infantry. The annoying part for me was the LA lost most its armor and the LT was stripped with 3 points internal . . . but every other location but the head had 8 or less points of damage. CT had 7!
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Just curious to see . . . how many Wolves are in the KS, and what level if you do not mind?
Started Bloodnamed and went over Star Colonel (dice) . . .
and a final thought-
(https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/66785593_2002104569895368_7194724382973886464_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_oc=AQnmdGXwfCWEH89EGczaedV2CUqsRJ9IvGzDcJ6EIsgad9YJ4S8vd199wxgEyWpH_XQ&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=5339fd32e4dde289225f385a53985155&oe=5DE72406)
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Yet no one has successfully domesticated a big cat :P
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Yet no one has successfully domesticated a big cat :P
Except the draconis combine.
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Define domesticated ;)
I've have seen the pictures of a siberian tiger that grew up in a house. That couch was his.....all of it.
Since I played with the tiger cub that was growing up in the house at the time I believe the pic was legit, or I'm gullible. One or the other.
To stay relevant to the topic at hand. Currently in for Star Captain and some add-ons. Close enough to Bloodnamed that I plan to do that when we near 1.5m, as it will come out the same with extras. That Star Colonel is still calling my name, though. We will see.
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I'm backing it.
Currently at Galaxy Commander, though I might downgrade to Star Colonel and spend the difference on Add-Ons, if the Canon Character/Art thing doesn't get resolved/clarified to my liking. Also depends on whether the nearly-reached social goal reward counts as a star pack or not. if I can get multiples of the core invasion box mechs (and thusly, get double forces of them) I have my picks all planned out (https://pastebin.com/R53nAaTk) not including the salvage boxes/elementals/other extras. With that layout I get a decent force for the prominent clans of the invasion, and can easily lend forces to someone without, to run battles.
but if I've got to add-on to get more of what I'm after, things might pan differently. *shrug*
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We appear to be fighting on Titan. Further Indication that the Wolves are the fleet what arrives at the end of Shattered Fortress
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Another victory for the Wolves . . . though Natasha did not repeat her performance she did manage to rip up the SIC competition. It always stings when the UAC/20 hits at 11 hexes (needed a 7) and you score the double tap . . . 72 points of damage that turn on a Awesome 8Q that was already a bit dinged up. Sawed off the non-PPC side torso, which sent it hiding for the next turn. She also put a Panther on the ground for the second turn of her firing- melted off the leg, and blasted the LA. While she did the main damage to a Cyclops and Blackjack OC, it was the Elementals getting the last hits in that finished them- Elemental Small Lasers scoring 5 crits on 3 chances on the LT (ammo- BOOM!), and the turn before getting a mid range SRM hit to finish the last LT structure on the Blackjack that Natasha had already ripped up . . . between her and the Timber Wolf C, it had both cannons out, 2 engine hits and a gyro crit.
Natasha lost her right arm and drew the most fire . . . for once the Lynx's RA stayed intact. I will be posting some pictures later- the Spheriods huddled behind some of the residential buildings to hide from Wolf firepower.
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I will be posting some pictures later- the Spheriods huddled behind some of the residential buildings to hide from Wolf firepower.
Awful dezgra move, involving civilians like that. Shame on those barbaric spheroids.
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heh . . . hiding being a bar and a Dunkin Donuts . . .
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I'm pledged at Star Colonel currently, with a ton for add-ons. Planning on getting at least one extra group of the box set 'Mechs and enough of various packs to add another Keshik to my existing Wolf forces. And then some for my Blood Spirits and a trinary of invasion-era Smoked Jags...
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As stretch goals have unlocked greater flexibility, this is now the direction I'm thinking I'll go. https://pastebin.com/e7CF4Yxj
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(https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67833586_10217332501976229_7870875771508621312_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQkPQ07PdSIlRPkCAVuzZZZXYrn9eqYI3dHk_XEUXvmvaDTiQOHjTdr0ZolC6ky-7jE&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=bc6e258fb5a2dd05fb18a5026dd82f23&oe=5DC7A436)
Since the SIC troops are hiding behind buildings, the Wolves are circling picking at the weaklings . . . this turn Natasha unleashed her UAC/20 in single mode along with ERPPC, ERML & both LPL on the Awesome. So will the Mist Lynx, Timberwolf and Elementals. Next turn that Blackjack OC is about to walk towards Natasha after she walks forward. The Mist Lynx (Calliope proxy) is going to run around behind the DD, mech LRM Infantry points will go behind the building, and the Timber Wolf will run forward.
(https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67776660_10217332481175709_2804667232594952192_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQkHgMLTH6cxwttqS9lI-Y8SD0i5_hbPs64ZiWv6aLyn1pMPTfuu5z5t_ATx7U1nFHs&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=e94cde80b9011cb4360456a73c1196ac&oe=5DE5A4BF)
Natasha's view after she dropped that Blackjack OC that had moved up . . . her right arm is in some trouble but that Awesome is going to get out from behind Dunkin Donuts . . . when you need a 7 at 11 hexes for a UAC/20 that has ammo in a unarmored location . . . yeah, its double tap time. This turn the Banshee/Cyclops will take some shots in the back from the Calliope/Mist Lynx C, Timber Wolf (out of view to the right) will fire at the Awesome along with the 2nd flight of Elemental SRMs, and I think Natasha is going to also try for the Banshee/Cyclops and maybe the other Panther.
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Nice pictures, Colt!
I guess after fight, they can have drinks at Dunkins. ;D
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given the way they're using it for cover, and my previous foray into clan fast food (Burger Khan, Taco Zell, etc) I keep thinkin "Dezgra Donuts." I mean the tagline even works "The Sphere runs on Dezgra"
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given the way they're using it for cover, and my previous foray into clan fast food (Burger Khan, Taco Zell, etc) I keep thinkin "Dezgra Donuts." I mean the tagline even works "The Sphere runs on Dezgra"
Here i thought it be, "Mechs run on fusion, Warriors run on Dunkins"!
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So, I thought I'd pop in and say hello. I'm getting back into Btech, and pledged the Bloodnamed level on Clan Invasion KS. Given the distinct lack of Coyotes around, I'm thinking I'll choose Wolf for my Faction gear...
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Well, some Coyotes did leave the Homeworlds to join the Crusader Wolves. But you can get the Coyote dice & coin as add-on even if your faction pack is Wolf.
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Just inventoried my metal minis. Between what I have now, and what I'm kickstarting, I've got a tidy cluster of Wolves. It's a heavy one, but that suits me fine.
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So, I thought I'd pop in and say hello. I'm getting back into Btech, and pledged the Bloodnamed level on Clan Invasion KS. Given the distinct lack of Coyotes around, I'm thinking I'll choose Wolf for my Faction gear...
The more you try to kill coyotes, the faster they breed. It's a weird thing.
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The more you try to kill coyotes, the faster they breed. It's a weird thing.
;D ;D ;D
Not THIS Coyote in particular...he's neutered...
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The more you try to kill coyotes, the faster they breed. It's a weird thing.
;D ;D ;D
Not THIS Coyote in particular...he's neutered...
They can clone that, don't cha know? :thumbsup:
TT
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So the KS got me back to playing some Clan Invasion MM (might have to revisit the Refusal War)- even before it opened just the word got me playing binary vs battalion. I also worked on some maps . . . and I am nearly ready to kick off the defense of Icar by the 3rd of the 12th Star Guard and the 3rd Icar Armored Brigade.
To summarize the planetary invasion . . .
March 3050 the 4th Wolf Guards landed two Supernova Trinaries and a star from Alpha Assault which is 35 mechs and I THINK it was 75-100 Elementals, I do not have my file or WCSB with me at the moment. Lots of Gargoyles and Timber Wolves, no surprise with that force list from the Tukayyid book though ER3052 now requires one of the mechs to be a Nova if it was not present already. But it did have a Warhawk in the mix as the slowest mech fielded.
The 3/12 Star Guard's Bravo Battalion was the force near the Wolves' LZ though none of the 3rd IAB was reported to be supporting them, perhaps some where present as scouts. Either way, per ER3052 the Bravo Battalion got hammered flat in a short time- panicked radio signals after a opening salvo killed the BN's major outside of LRM range. To be fair, it sounds like the landing area was pretty flat and maybe open- likely little vegetation like in a rain shadow b/c of the description of later maps. Either way 35 Clan mechs, mostly Gargoyles and Timber Wolves with some Ice Ferrets and Adders against 36 3025 designs even if heavier than the IS medium average is going to be over quickly- before the Elementals can even really factor in.
Considering how the Wolves were greeted after the LZ- likely with massed fire- and their Star Colonel's response to Col Caitlin, which was pretty hostile b/c they were mistaken for mercs . . . would the Wolves have stuck to dueling after destroying the Bravo Battalion?
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Two schools of thought, if you ask me.
If the enemy is going to gang up on you, there is little reason not to respond in kind if you are so inclined...
... but the enemy's dishonor is only one side of the equation. The bragging rights are far sweeter if you stick to your guns and maintain zell even as they try to mob you. Perhaps nothing better can be expected of the spheroids, but that hardly means we need to wallow in the same mud, quineg?
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Okay, now that I have looked at it . . . 25 mechs, they were not Supernova Trinaries but Binaries. Still 25 mechs (Warhawk, Mad Dog, Ice Ferret, Nova, 15 Gargoyles, 6 Timber Wolves & 100 Elementals) against 36-40 IS meds/heavies/assaults, the regiment had no lights. Guess I will throw out one of the Gargoyles for a Nova S, since a Nova's BAP detected the mercs waiting in ambush.
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45 Points of Clan vs 40 IS 'Mechs in the early Invasion doesn't exactly strike me as a fair fight, let alone one that's particularly honorable in the undertaking.
EDIT: and also averaging over 75 tons per Omni.
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With having 15 Gargoyles and a Nova S, the other 9 mechs are going to have to fill in where the Gargs have any weaknesses . . . so to go against nearly two veteran battalions (5 companies & a command lance) of mostly 3025 mechs (gave them a few improved, Stalker 5S, and they had one Noisiel winner- Capt Lief something who won a Marauder 5S) and two companies of armor w/ 2 reinforcing I am thinking of the following-
Warhawk A
Nova S (MW Geetha- may die in battle)
Ice Ferret D
thinking Mad Dog C or B
Timber Wolf Prime
Timber Wolf A (mine are usually cursed)
Timber Wolf C
Timber Wolf D
Timber Wolf S
Timber Wolf C
Gargoyle D (commander, Star Captain Skinner Ward)
Gargoyle Prime
Gargoyle C
Gargoyle A
Gargoyle Conal
Gargoyle D
Gargoyle Prime
Gargoyle C
Gargoyle A
Gargoyle C
Gargoyle C
Gargoyle C
Gargoyle A
Gargoyle A
Gargoyle D
5 UAC/20, 10 ERPPCs, and maybe some Gauss Rifles depending on the Mad Dog . . . you can also tell I like cERLL. I also plan to put infernos in the SRM ammo bins- maybe some with the Elementals.
It was 25 mechs and 4 stars of Elementals against a heavy regiment & armored brigade. But b/c of how the Clans force the tempo and the Wolves had a strategic speed advantage they defeated the IS forces in detail. The force list & weight is from the WCSB except for the Nova, that is specific to ER3052 though that warrior & mech are not in that formation at Tukayyid. Notice the second battle, a IS ambush could be up to 85 mechs w/ armor support vs those same 25 mechs and 100 Elementals- and no matter what, I find it hard to believe that not a single Elemental would have been taken out during the first LZ battle. Since the Bravo BN did hit the Wolves right at their LZ, I would expect they reloaded and probably re-armored their machines, though I do not expect them to have spent the time doing things like any needed engine/gyro/weapon repairs.
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That sounds significantly more reasonable; carry on
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Lol, yeah I was using this to test force/BV and a more nuanced zell on general maps b/c I already had the force lists. A elite Supernova Binary against a mech vet/reg battalion w/command lance and two reg companies of vehicles was 'close' to BV balanced- a couple thousand in the IS favor, but close enough when you are talking 40-50k.
Now I am going with the actual scenario combining WCSB, ER3052 and CM Mercs . . . I am actually interested to see if the heavy hitting power of the Clan weapons can overcome that much armor in a IS ambush in rough terrain. The IS forces will not have a lot of mobility being mostly 4/6s with the terrain as described in the scenario, but it will not give the Wolf mechs the run lanes to get +3 and their decision to usually skip on JJ will hurt a bit. While the 3rd of the 12 Star Guard will not rout, the armor force would so I just need to figure that point out . . . and when the mercs would decide to retreat, especially since there are limited passes out of the chasm.
Right now the battle is 6x6 BT size maps, but I am thinking of going to 8 wide for a pursuit option. When I have the map laid out I will post a picture of it . . . though I will need to figure out how to do the thumbnail you click on to expand.
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Well . . . the test game finished, and yeah that terrain as described in the ER3052 track definitely is an advantage for the IS, I did not get in long range shots with my elite pilots for the most part . . . though I did get one or two with the UAC/20 from a Gargoyle C.
IS Company was wiped out
Clan forces lost a point or so of Elementals and they took general damage, the Nova S had a leg melted off, engine & MG crits and got knocked on the noggin. The Star Captain's Gargoyle A lost all the armor on the front except for legs and head, into the red on a rear torso location. No crits but internal structure damage and a hit to the head. Timber Wolf C lost armor, into the yellow, but nothing went internal since it still kept some on all locations. Timber Wolf A and Gargoyle C took very minor armor damage if any at all. So to extrapolate . . . 60% of the Clan mech & Elemental force would be in a position to press on (prob better since none of the IS retreated, in canon they did) in pursuit of retreating mercs. Another 20% of the Clan mechs would be able to follow if their tech & laborer caste field support was following in their wake. So it means a Trinary nipping at the mercs & armor as they fall back and another star repairing armor to get back in the fight.
Garg A got a heavy & 2 med kills
Garg C got 2 med kills
TWolf A got a heavy & 2 med kills
TWolf C got 2 heavy kills
Nova S got a med kill
Elemental point got a solo kill- a TAC for a double gyro
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Re-reading Bred for War in the wake of the Clan Invasion KS . . . and I did the math up about Morges for the Refusal War.
The Falcons brought the Peregrine & Omicron Galaxies, which were 5 frontline, 5 garrison and 1 solahma clusters. Just giving the 10 clusters regular organization and the solahma a bit weaker we end up with . . . 480 mechwarriors, 340 pilots, and 800 Elementals (figure solahma two mech trinaries, aero & Elemental binaries) are wiped out or taken bondsmen by the Warden Wolves or Hounds since not a single Falcon dropship left the planet. Due to conditions on the planet, go with a 10% survival/capture rate (Elementals would be higher IMO b/c armor protection) and we get 48 mechwarriors, 34 pilots and 80 Elementals- enough survivors to form a cluster with a bit left over.
Its also a sixth of the estimate 60 clusters the Falcons had going into Operation Revival.
The few numbers given in the book also hammer home how many Wolf clusters dropped into a black hole. Ulric's spearhead had 5 frontline clusters of 'Delta' and the 5 of Tau- by Wotan he was supposed to have 3 frontline clusters reinforced with select Tau warriors and two remaining Tau clusters. Roughly 50% losses in the two months of the Refusal War against the Falcons, a faster operational tempo than Revival with no re-supply from the Homeworlds. Wounded would be unable to recover in time to rejoin their units and mechs were put back together from salvage. Natasha's spearhead had 5 frontline clusters of 'Alpha' under her and 5 frontline clusters of 'Beta' under Phelan- no secondline galaxy and Gamma is never mentioned. However Gamma Galaxy's clusters are seeded into the 3 frontline galaxies engaged in the spearheads. The only other mention is Omega Galaxy (5 clusters) sent from the Homeworlds into the Lyran zone . . . which easily leaves out 26 of the clusters garrisoning the OZ, Epsilon from the Invasion, and any other forces in the Homeworlds. And Tau (5 clusters) Galaxy was formed after we get those numbers.
So irrespective of forces engaged in the JFOZ for the Refusal War the Wolf Clan had 30+ clusters left in the OZ and unknown in the Homeworlds. By FMCC, the Crusader Wolves had 32 clusters (w/o keshiks) of which 14 are frontline. Drop the Alpha and Gamma remnants that went to Phelan and you have the 5 clusters on Wotan that Vlad ended up with most of the survivors- give it 50% survivors to be generous to the Falcons even though that was not the loss rate in warriors. So the Jade Wolves start off with 32.5+ clusters in the OZ and unknown in the Homeworlds . . . We know that at least 5 clusters had been stationed in the Homeworlds before (Omega) and that no Clan stripped their Homeworld assets to put troops in the IS- use the Jags as an example, they had two galaxies in the Homeworlds and that seemed to be the standard with all the other Invaders- two galaxies as garrison and rotate frontline clusters or keshiks when Khans were on Strana Mechty. Which would mean at least Wolf garrison galaxy of 5 clusters . . . so 37.5+ clusters (w/o keshiks)- so Harvest trials, retesting failures, and bulking with vehicles added to the Crusader Wolves to bring them 'up' to 32 clusters?
The Warden Wolves had 5 clusters on Arc Royal. Be generous to the Falcons and give Phelan's forces on Morges 50% losses . . . 2.5 clusters then move to Arc Royal. On Wotan Ulric landed with effectively 6 frontline clusters and 2 secondline Tau clusters. Survivors of Natasha's spearhead (3 clusters landed) were led off by Marco Hall to join Phelan- while it was more than this, say its 1.5 clusters. Later more Gamma Galaxy survivors (Bronze Keshik, 7th & 11th Battle- most of 7th with Vlad) joined Phelan. Gamma would be the 5th frontline clusters assigned to Alpha/Beta/Delta IMO- for example Phelan had the 16th Battle as part of Beta. While not reflected in Bred for War beyond a single line, the Silver Keshik was reinforced to bring it up to a weak cluster in strength for the Refusal War. Phelan should have had 5+ (6?) frontline clusters, 5 secondline clusters and 3 keshiks even accounting for losses, instead the Wardens end up with 10 understrength clusters and two normal keshiks.
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Natasha's 13th Wolf Guards drove off League raiders . . . a pair of elite Inner Sphere Awesome 8Qs, Warhammer 7M, Hercules and pair of Spiders ran into the grinder of her Dire Wolf Widowmaker, Timber Wolf C, Mist Lynx C, Elemental (L), and two infantry points. While Natasha put out some hurt (connected with the UAC/20 at 8 hexes three times, whiff on the Ultra attempt) and seemed to be pulling the teeth on the Leaguers, it was the Elemental point that were the stars . . . ignored until they opened fire, one trooper gained the Star Colonel's attention by putting his small laser blast on the Herc's head which contributed to the mech falling over in the first exchange. Next time they fired, the same trooper put one in the Warhammer's head though that pilot stayed awake. When they closed with a damaged Awesome (Natasha had slagged its arm PPC), he led the point in blowing off the Awesome's leg causing it to fall. After a turn tagging a leaping Spider (center mass hit), they fired on the crippled Awesome that had stood up again (it could make those TN 10 rolls) hitting the mech in the remaining leg's structure . . . and blowing THAT leg off.
While most of the Inner Sphere mechs were crippled (and lucky to keep hitting the same torso location on the Wolves, seriously both DW & TW had 1 location close to breech and another untouched) a Spider did slow down to try to cripple the Timber Wolf . . . right in front of Natasha. The Ultra AC/20 shot punched through the center of the mech wrecking the engine & gyro before careening off through the woods to nearly hit the Warhammer! The Trial ended with a sleeping Hercules pilot (5 hits), legless and missing a arm Awesome 8Q, armless Warhammer 7M, armor burned Spider, pile of Spider parts, and a barely hit Awesome 8Q facing Natasha's Dire Wolf with a nearly open CT, Timber Wolf C open RT, and the LA arm missing on a Mist Lynx. Victory for the Wolves even with time running out.
Elemental Bronson of the Morans definitely caught the Khan's attention with his performance.
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Our Agent posted photos, this as seen from the League side- the Spector was standing in for my Mist Lynx.
(https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/69960964_10220768015329354_1690668735964119040_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_eui2=AeGw0AFuTTJ2lE3gzIdwXjXX2I-QlaI9LppAOovq6clArpTkc6EslkOUYqSTY6EpTU9ZN7JuEdO0jEvj58TD5OBZpDfdxjj1nrj8LPlUj-6bpg&_nc_oc=AQlykxkQwkua5_lqFyPa8sLyoIFqbFGKnYmzLVREWkhlhMkZ3UTRDRnfphTc3fmcuWM&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=2c5bf0187a6d393be50b39e2edc94be8&oe=5E09801E)
And the turn or two before as the Leaguers crossed the river.
(https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/69814676_10220768026289628_1587268218651672576_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_eui2=AeENYa4U1ayGyF65VJfFc9q-7aAq3H29Aav5_EtpkNUuQRXzrbtRatdrMiF99VLLTBgYy2rjmCkhJgED5RbGtUry-zAfaxZxDuEBHzebuS79Gg&_nc_oc=AQkXHIrhLa0o-F4443cS8seCI0TvohMdBvAbgP6Uw9zFtx3Pdp28ob_wssm9A5MbeEk&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=b3185da9da01c84daac2a5bd32b415cb&oe=5E1313DE)
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Natasha is going to face the Dragoons on Sunday . . .
Based on Watch reports, this is what is expected to touch down in the dropship.
Gallowglas 1
Archer- either 4M or 5R
Hoplite- expect it to be the Royal
Ice Ferret
Phoenix Hawk- 1, -1D or -3M
Spider 5V/Venom 9K
A lot of armor for my two mechs to burn through, but on the upside the Hoplite and Gallowglas carry their ranged weapons in the arms. The Spider/Venom will have to get close to do anything- if I keep the Timber Wolf and Mist Lynx in closer, the Large Pulse will quickly cripple either design. It will also let the ECM protect the two heavier designs. Ice Ferret will be tricky since had has used the D, H & IIRC the Prime before and it has the armor to take multiple ERPPC/LPL hits.
I am actually thinking of dumping a ton of the UAC/20 ammo off the Dire Wolf Widowmaker. Maybe half or more of the AMS ammo, since in three hours its hard to see me taking more than 6-8 turns of LRM fire.
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Turned out to be a tight fight for the Wolf Clan, the Dragoons attempts at finesse kept getting swatted by Natasha.
A Locust 1E running around a building managed to avoid her Ultra 20 shot, but caught a ERPPC, pair of Large Pulse but avoided the ER Med . . . which ended up a pile of parts since the ERPPC and a LPL went through the left torso then center. Another Dragoon in a Wolverine 7M tried to race down the side of the battlefield but was not able to avoid as much as the Locust . . . Ultra 20, Large Pulse and ER Med created 3 crit chances for a total of 5 crits . . . ERML, Engine, Gyro, Engine, Engine- salvage for the garrison clusters! Unfortunately most the damage Natasha took was a ML to the head from the Locust and a SRM from the Wolverine . . . kept her from charging forward as much with all that untouched armor.
Left the fight up to the Timber Wolf which towards the end was battered (CT open, gyro & engine crits, UAC/5 jammed-1st time in 8 battles-, ERLL arm upper crit, head hit, 2 pilot damage) but the Hoplite C was on the ground near it, overheated (moving 2/3) and the Venom 9K that had raced up lost a arm, side torso stripped, both legs stripped, and MPL crit putting it in forced withdraw . . . and the enemy commander in the Gallowglas had taken heavy damage the one time it squared off with Natasha- most the armor gone & internal on ERPPC arm- which caused it to fade into the background. A Phoenix Hawk 3M had also lost one arm- melted off by Natasha's pulse lasers.
Unfortunately the Elementals were total whiffs this time.
Wolf Clan victorious- Locust 1E & Wolverine 7M killed, Venom crippled, and first blood vs a crippled Timber Wolf C . . . time ran out, and while they may have been able to get the Timber Wolf the next turn Natasha would have killed the Hoplite C that was on the ground.
Wolf Dragoons-
Gallowglas 1
Wolverine 7M
Hoplite C
Phoenix Hawk 3M
Locust 1E
Venom 9K
Commando 3A
veteran gunners w/regular pilot skills for the most part
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Tau Galaxy and its clusters were in development going into the Refusal War, then had a big shuffle as Nat/Phelan/Ulric transferred some of the most die-hard elite Crusaders from the frontline galaxies to Tau before the first battle.
During the formation of the five clusters of Tau, if a star of mostly freebirths were attached what do you think of them using . . .
Lupus Omni
Royal Champion
Spartan NF mod using some prototype Clan weapon refits
Clint IIC
and think Royal Crab or Kintaro (really wish the Kintaro was in the KS ComStar packs)
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Well, some Coyotes did leave the Homeworlds to join the Crusader Wolves. But you can get the Coyote dice & coin as add-on even if your faction pack is Wolf.
i'm going pure Coyote for mine. though i am curious whether those Coyotes that joined the wolves got spread around the clan after or if you wound up with some units with coyote-ish traditions in the Touman.
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I think those that survived were used to replace losses, but I am not totally sure. The Wolves already had their exchanges with the Coyotes over things like the McKibben bloodname even before the Reaving.
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Well, a test run of the freebirth star . . . turned out badly for the Falcons.
Using random forces from a PGC of Clan regular pilots for the Falcons-
Timber Wolf Prime (4/6)- engine death
Jenner IIC (3/6) fled
Hussar 200Db (4/4)
Talon 5W (4/5)
Hellhound (3/5)
Shadow Hawk IIC (3/6) KIA
Marauder 2R (4/5)- blown apart unfortunately after losing sides, wished it could be salvaged
Blackjack 1 (3/5) KIA after ejecting
Black Knight 6b (4/4) KIA- headshot
Cestus 6Y (3/6) KIA & engine death
The Lupus lost a side torso & leg causing the Star Commander to punch out . . . rest was mostly armor damage with some getting internal though the Spartan had its RT wrecked (thank God it was using a spare Gargoyle engine) so the RA fell off. But Timber Wolf Prime, Royal Black Knight, Cestus, Blackjack, and parts salvaged work out pretty well . . . rather than rebuilding the Lupus immediately, the Star Commander gets the Timber Wolf as isorla. The Black Knight and Cestus were passed to other Tau clusters to replace losses though the Lupus was kept to be rebuilt as the cluster's techs had time. Unsurprisingly, no Falcons were taken as bondsmen on Evciler from the 9th PGC the survivors were left to find their way back to their own lines as the Wolf forces lifted for the next target.
Roster moving forward-
Timber Wolf Prime- Star Commander Tyrell of the Winsons (3/4)
Spartan NF- MW Harrison (2/3), 2 kills
Champion 1Nb- MW Arondel (2/4 + 1SPA), 3 kills
Kintaro 19b- MW Athena of the Winsons (2/4), 2 kills
Clint IIC- MW Quantrel (2/4), 2 kills
Unfortunately, no Clan Gauss Rifles or ER PPCs were salvaged off the battlefield but the Conjurer does give up a pair of ERMLs for the Kintaro while the Shadow Hawk IIC provides a pair of Clan Med Pulse to replace 2 of the IS models on the Spartan's severed right arm.
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Going back to Icar . . . I selected the 4th Wolf Guard's Supernova Trinary First, which is effectively a binary w/2 novas bid, and the command star from Trinary Assault which gives me 15 mechs and 50 Elementals with around 85k BV on randomly rolled elite pilots. I actually got more veteran rated pilots than WCSB listed, but after 2 years of combat it would make sense why more became elite by Tukayyid.
Against this, following WCSB/ER3052/CMMercs, I pulled in 3rd of the 12th Star Guard's 1st Battalion, regimental command lance w/scouts, and a company of militia armor with the mech forces being rated as veterans with a low level of upgraded equipment. The 3/12th Star Guards have no light mechs, so its a LOT assaults compared to other IS units which means 40 mechs and 16 vehicles for nearly 126k BV . . . all on either a 4 wide by 6 tall or 6x6 BT maps. Not sure if the 4x6 will be too cluttered or if I go up to 6x6 it gets too cluttered with the current or event later forces.
The ratio was 1 Clan star to 1 IS mech company per ER3052 though I gave them a bit more with the regimental command lance. The same book also says 1 star of Elementals to a lance of vehicles, but with the skill disparity and to get actual formations in I felt the company of armor was more appropriate. So yeah the Clan force is outnumbered & out BV'd . . . the Wolves will get to concentrate their forces and decide where they cross the chasm wall into the canyon that is Pofadder's Gully while the Star Guard will be spreading the battalion along a 6 BT map front to meet the invaders where they appear. Assault heavy Alpha Company will be holding the center of the line which allows the faster wings to respond to reinforce at the point of contact. The Command Lance, scouts and armor company will be off the line in a central reserve.
Now, that is the force list so far . . . I COULD throw in the two other novas (again, HAD to be Elemental losses vs the other BN) which gets another two companies of mechs and a company of armor- but see the above about being too cluttered. Guess that is a question . . .
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(https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67833586_10217332501976229_7870875771508621312_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQkPQ07PdSIlRPkCAVuzZZZXYrn9eqYI3dHk_XEUXvmvaDTiQOHjTdr0ZolC6ky-7jE&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=bc6e258fb5a2dd05fb18a5026dd82f23&oe=5DC7A436)
Since the SIC troops are hiding behind buildings, the Wolves are circling picking at the weaklings . . . this turn Natasha unleashed her UAC/20 in single mode along with ERPPC, ERML & both LPL on the Awesome. So will the Mist Lynx, Timberwolf and Elementals. Next turn that Blackjack OC is about to walk towards Natasha after she walks forward. The Mist Lynx (Calliope proxy) is going to run around behind the DD, mech LRM Infantry points will go behind the building, and the Timber Wolf will run forward.
(https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67776660_10217332481175709_2804667232594952192_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQkHgMLTH6cxwttqS9lI-Y8SD0i5_hbPs64ZiWv6aLyn1pMPTfuu5z5t_ATx7U1nFHs&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=e94cde80b9011cb4360456a73c1196ac&oe=5DE5A4BF)
Natasha's view after she dropped that Blackjack OC that had moved up . . . her right arm is in some trouble but that Awesome is going to get out from behind Dunkin Donuts . . . when you need a 7 at 11 hexes for a UAC/20 that has ammo in a unarmored location . . . yeah, its double tap time. This turn the Banshee/Cyclops will take some shots in the back from the Calliope/Mist Lynx C, Timber Wolf (out of view to the right) will fire at the Awesome along with the 2nd flight of Elemental SRMs, and I think Natasha is going to also try for the Banshee/Cyclops and maybe the other Panther.
Well, the way things have worked out, I will be facing this force again . . . Awesome 8Q, Cyclops 11B, Cataphract, Blackjack OC and a pair of Panther 8Rs. We will see if he comes at me a bit more which was my tip last time- charge the Clan forces! We will see what the maps look like, but that BJ-OC is a very tempting target to remove the double shotguns quickly.
Edit- fixed what I said, lol
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that is one heavily contested donut shack.
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Probably the only one that survived the Succession Wars.
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Probably the only one that survived the Succession Wars.
Dunkin' Donuts, like Starbucks (but to a much lesser degree), self proliferate. This means they will exist forever.
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Unfortunately I do have it on good authority that Taco Bell was the only fast food joint to make it out the other side of the franchise conflicts during the 1st Succession War.
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Unfortunately I do have it on good authority that Taco Bell was the only fast food joint to make it out the other side of the franchise conflicts during the 1st Succession War.
Zeus Burger is clearly proof that you are wrong.
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Well, Natasha's targeting computer took a bit to warm up (Need 4; Roll 3) but my opponent kept his forces hanging back, trying to snipe back with PPCs rather than rushing forward to bury me in armor & numbers. Popped the BJ-OC after 2 or 3 turns of fire, ripped the right side of the Cataphract off- all 3 crits hit the AC/10- and for irony, the LRM15 that fired Swarms ended up missing the Blackjack and would have killed it a turn earlier ended up hitting the Panther that jumped next to it (Need 11; Roll 12) . . . then rolled high for missiles to hit, 12 total.
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Tonight, the Khan Natasha Kerensky's 13th Wolf Guards will participate in the final trial against forces of the Capellan Confederation.
So, with only 1 loss this tournament (wiped out by the Ravens) I will be playing a newer player who chose the CapCon. He only has a single loss AFAIK in the 2nd round, but we did not meet each other in that round so we face off having been the last two not eliminated. This fight will be using 15k on each side, adding another 5k to what we had previously.
Timberwolf C 3/5
Mist Lynx C 4/4
Elemental L 4/4
Dire Wolf Widowmaker 2/4- Natasha Kerensky
Mech Track Point LRM 3/8
Mech Track Point LRM 3/8
Gargoyle D 4/4
Phantom B 4/5
Elemental L 4/4
Elemental L 4/4
A very Wolf force for what I can squeeze in the BV. It gives me 5 cERLL, 2 ERPPC and 2 LPL for some ranging beating while his old force lacks speed to close up on my mechs without getting a lot of hits in. Then the infantry half of the Nova can screen the Dire Wolf, especially those infantry which act as mobile SRM10s.
I expect to be facing 2 Cyclops, Orion, 2 Catapults, maybe a Firestarter, and two Fa Shih . . . not sure what else he will add . . .
Pictures at 11!
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It's been 11 days...
You promised:
Pictures at 11!
TT
:thumbsup:
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Lol, forgot . . . because the opponent was a no-show, rather disappointing Natasha did not get her climactic battle.
I did have a post written up about a Capellan putting a foot in the Circle of Equals . . . and then turning to walk off.
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Hey Wolf-brethren, please remind because I have forgotten.. what's the Clan Wolf unit that this paint scheme (https://www.3printr.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/timber_wolf_3.jpg) belongs to? It's also the one proudly displayed on that one book cover, which now also escapes me. I've always loved this one, but can't for the life of me place it now.
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I don't think that's ever been established as a canon unit scheme, but let me check my books.
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Yeah, I don't see it on CamoSpecs, so no clue.
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It's not been established as a canon Wolf scheme.
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Hmm okay, thanks folks. Oddly it's one of the more iconic paint schemes out there, but isn't a designated unit. This bums me out.
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With ilClan thing (possibly) happening soon(tm). Does this mean Wolf Galaxy/Clusters may get a "Royal" designation or a new designation? 4th Royal Wolf Guards or the 81st Royal Wolf Strikers etc?
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Hmm okay, thanks folks. Oddly it's one of the more iconic paint schemes out there, but isn't a designated unit. This bums me out.
It's not really iconic. It appeared in a single illustration planned for a cancelled product that was reused later as interior art.
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It's not really iconic. It appeared in a single illustration planned for a cancelled product that was reused later as interior art.
I guess iconic is a big word, but it is one of the better images for Battletech ever really, but that's just my opinion (also obviously the only opinion that matters in this universe). I guess it could be a take on the Delta Galaxy spec or a Crusader Wolf unit that's changed its camo... but really probably just an artist being creative. Anyway, it is glorious.
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I definitely agree that it looks better than any canon Wolf scheme, although that's a pretty low bar
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With ilClan thing (possibly) happening soon(tm). Does this mean Wolf Galaxy/Clusters may get a "Royal" designation or a new designation? 4th Royal Wolf Guards or the 81st Royal Wolf Strikers etc?
I get your point — will the ilClan’s units get a special designation among Clan units reflecting their status as the ilClan?
I’d say it’s certainly possible, but it probably won’t be “Royal”. Even among those Clan units directly descended from SLDF Royal units, the “Royal” moniker was dropped long ago. Otherwise, Clan Wolf’s 341st Assault Cluster, which is descended from the 341st Royal Battlemech Division, would be called the the 341st Royal Assault Cluster. And it’s not. The Clans long ago shed those direct references to the more parochial, imperial and aristocratic aspects of the old Star League. And as a (very bloody) meritocracy, they still oppose the House nobility, another reason to avoid the word “royal”.
My 2-bit guess is that there will be some more elite and loyal force that the ilClan establishes over and above its regular touman and the other Clan toumans (maybe with contributions from all Clans). But I’d expect an expanded use of the term “keshik” or something else Mongolian to refer to this force, rather than a throwback to the First Star League. The ilClan may establish a Third Star League, but it will likely have the imprint of Clan society, not House Cameron, the Terran Hegemony, or the other Houses in general.
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My 2-bit guess is that there will be some more elite and loyal force that the ilClan establishes over and above its regular touman and the other Clan toumans (maybe with contributions from all Clans). But I’d expect an expanded use of the term “keshik” or something else Mongolian to refer to this force, rather than a throwback to the First Star League. The ilClan may establish a Third Star League, but it will likely have the imprint of Clan society, not House Cameron, the Terran Hegemony, or the other Houses in general.
You are thinking something like the Ebon Keshik that guards Strana Mechty and the Great Father's tomb on his McKenna?
Which is even assuming the other Clans will recognize the ilClan's supremacy. Before the Invasion, they all agreed that whoever won the race would be ilClan . . . because each Clan thought they would be the one to win the race, so what would it matter that they agreed? The rest of the Clans were going to join them, so they did not have to worry about being subsumed to another Clan.
IF a IS Clan becomes ilClan, I suspect none of the other Clans are just going to roll over and be absorbed. Its a empty title, like being "Kerensky's Clan" or current figurehead monarchies. You are the King/Queen but that means nothing like it did hundreds of years ago.
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Meaning what, a Klondike II... aka Clan civil war 2.0?
I can see hundreds of ToP, a few ToA and maybe a death or two clanwise.
TT
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Yeah, the shakeout from ilClan will be impressive. I'll be amazed if all of the existing Clans make it through the transition.
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Bears, Ravens and Foxes IMO just ignore it . . . Horses might follow along . . .
But for the Crusader Wolves and Mad Malvina's Jade Falcons?
(https://rinconbananero.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/quickening.jpg)
In the end, there can be only one.
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Bears, Ravens and Foxes IMO just ignore it . . . Horses might follow along . . .
But for the Crusader Wolves and Mad Malvina's Jade Falcons?
(https://rinconbananero.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/quickening.jpg)
In the end, there can be only one.
JADE WOLF for the win1
TT
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JADE WOLF for the win1
TT
That would be... oddly satisfying.
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Alaric kills Malvina, absorbing the Jade Falcons and resurrects that name? Really odd for the Clan psychology.
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More Iike there's just enough as separates that as a whole, Jade Wolf arises. Or the alternative... a dead puppy and finch.
TT
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You are thinking something like the Ebon Keshik that guards Strana Mechty and the Great Father's tomb on his McKenna?
No, not ceremonial or police.
The implication of the existence of an ilClan is not just that some Clan reached or holds Terra. Per the Wolf Clan SB, the existence of an ilClan implies that there is a new Star League.
If so, then what units comprise the new Clan “SLDF”?
I don’t think there will literally be another “SLDF” with “Royal Divisions”, etc.
But I don’t think the ilClan’s touman or frontline galaxies alone would serve the function of the old SLDF.
I think a Clan “SLDF” under the ilClan/3rd Star League would have to be broader than that.
Which is even assuming the other Clans will recognize the ilClan's supremacy...
IF a IS Clan becomes ilClan, I suspect none of the other Clans are just going to roll over and be absorbed. Its a empty title, like being "Kerensky's Clan" or current figurehead monarchies. You are the King/Queen but that means nothing like it did hundreds of years ago.
There may well be inter- and intra-Clan fighting over the ilClan-/ilKhanships. But I doubt that a major, lengthy, and long-awaited product like “ilClan” would be produced and titled as such over an empty figurehead.
After events like those in WoR or the revelations about what Nick Kerensky did to the Wolverines, it’s easy to jump to the conclusion that any Clan will fight any other Clan tooth-and-nail over the ilClanship and die trying.
But the reality is that canon Clan history is also replete with long episodes of very limited and ritualized warfare driving the major decisions in Clan society. Clanners have stuck to the results of their trials before, even when they didn’t like them. They may do so this time, too.
There are also episodes in Clan history where one Clan, usually Wolf because of the Founders, has been afforded privileges the other Clans do not enjoy. And there are episodes where the Clans acknowledge and work under (sometimes through gritted teeth) the leadership of an ilKhan. They may do either or both this time, too.
There are also episodes where the Clans have united against a common foe, like the Wolverines or the Society. They may do so again in the run-up to the creation of the ilClan. There are a number of potential foils: Mad Malvina and her Mongol Falcons, Stone if he goes cryo-crazy and the Republic elements that follow him, or even a surprise visit from whatever the Homeworld Clans have evolved into.
Lastly, how many Spheroid Clans even care about pursuing the ilClanship anymore, nevertheless are willing to risk their existence on securing it? The Bears? The Foxes? The Ravens? The Horses? Only the Wolves and Falcons seem willing to fight for the ilClanship. As long as the ilKhan doesn’t do anything stupid, the rest may be more than willing to join a federated Third Star League under an ilClan, especially if it means coordination/support in defeating the Houses on their borders, better worlds, better trade, better tech, etc.
I’m not saying any of this will happen. But I am saying that there are well-grounded options for the ilClan storyline to be something other than “the Clans beat each other senseless over nothing.”
My own sense is that the Wolves have been laying groundwork with some of the other Spheroid Clans that will help secure the ilClanship for the Wolves — like the cooperation implied with the Horses and Ravens in the creation of the SkinWalker. And that some other catalyst — like Malvina breaking out the WMDs or Stone backstabbing the Wolves after bringing them to Terra — will catapult the Wolves into the ilClanship and the creation of a “Third Star League”.
But I also suspect that, like the Jihad and WoR storylines, the major strokes of the ilClan story will be unpredictable.
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I'm curious if the ilClan will even use the name Star League in it's name at this point. Plans keep changing with what going happen from what all i have read.
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In 3050 the ilClan was to (peacefully) absorb all the other Clans into theirs since the superiority of the Clan taking Terra would have been proven for all. In 3150, its just not going to happen- neither the Falcons or Wolves would tolerate the other having that title, so no peaceful absorption. Bears, Ravens and Foxes IMO will be like . . . 'Cool story bro, so what?'
So whichever Clan claims Terra may call themselves the ilClan but its a empty title- the other Clans are not going to voluntarily join them and lose their identity.
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In 3050 the ilClan was to (peacefully) absorb all the other Clans into theirs
Where is that written?
According to the WCSB, the ilClan gets to permanently pick the ilKhan, which will probably (but not necessarily always) be one of their own. The ilClan forever (in theory) becomes the power behind the throne at the head of Clan governance.
But I don’t recall anything about the Clans losing their individual identities or otherwise being absorbed by the ilClan or other sociopolitical structure.
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Garner Kerensky is alive, Alaric is preparing a trap for Malvina's Falcons on Terra, Paul Moon incognito? surrendered New Terra to Alaric w/o fighting- IMO taking challenge terms to Stone, Anastasia Kerensky is going on a strategic mission of unknown type (get Warden Wolves & Kell Hounds to end Malvina?), Garner Kerensky (Bears?) went on a strategic mission like Marotta Kerensky & Anastasia, Alaric has negotiated with the Sea Foxes to move troops- LOTS of troops- on command circuits . . .
Heck, I am just stoked to get some classic Wolf vs Falcon hate for the fate of Terra, it warms my Refusal War loving heart.
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I'm assuming that all appears in Divided We Fall. I purchased it, but haven't read it yet. Though when Pardoe posted the link on reddit to his blog announcing the book, I commented that the story description added fuel to my speculation that Garner Kerensky was off on a mission to get the WiE and Kell Hounds to join Alaric's Wolves, and he responded that Garner was on a different and perhaps cooler mission.
With Anastasia already having the Wolf Hunters join, Marotta getting the Wolf's Dragoons, and the mysterious disappearance of the WiE and Kell Hounds possibly presaging them joining the Wolves. It does seem Alaric is getting the Clan back together using the one thing they can all agree on... beating up the Jade Falcon's, especially Malvina's Falcons, and protecting Terra in the process.
I wonder if the Steel Wolves contracted to the FWL or Snord's Irregulars in the LC are also going to get a call to rejoin Alaric's Wolves.
Also, it will be interesting to see what role Noritomo Helmer is going to play now that he's joined the Wolves, both for and possibly against Alaric, especially once Malvina is possibly eliminated.
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The missions he sent people on were to gather traditional allies . . . could Garner have gone to get the Scorpions? Only other ones I can think of is trying to get Snord's Irregulars, and they do not have the ties.
Helmer leads the majority of those who are not infected with the Mongol taint, word chosen specifically.
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Garner Kerensky is alive, Alaric is preparing a trap for Malvina's Falcons on Terra, Paul Moon incognito? surrendered New Terra to Alaric w/o fighting- IMO taking challenge terms to Stone, Anastasia Kerensky is going on a strategic mission of unknown type (get Warden Wolves & Kell Hounds to end Malvina?), Garner Kerensky (Bears?) went on a strategic mission like Marotta Kerensky & Anastasia, Alaric has negotiated with the Sea Foxes to move troops- LOTS of troops- on command circuits . . .
Heck, I am just stoked to get some classic Wolf vs Falcon hate for the fate of Terra, it warms my Refusal War loving heart.
You definintely hit on some key points. So many possibilities...
Blaine "Buck" Pardoe
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this Dominator will have me howling at the moon.
On one hand, the last thing Clan Wolf really needs is another heavy design. As shown in the Bloodname Trial, Timber Wolves are still in regular usage. At the very least, until we relocated, we had the Tundra Wolf and Blood Reaper in production in the Oz, so plenty of them still around. Then there's the Orion C, and Warwolf. And really, much like the Gargoyle before it (which, is still recieving configs in NTNU, so it's still in service too) the Battlemaster IIc we have is assault weight but heavy in spirit... And that's not even counting the spheroid lines we may or may not have inherited... Suffice to say, Clan Wolf has a lot of Heavy Options. Would that it were a medium, where we're lacking a good omni other than the Skinwalker.
And yet, like the Gargoyle/Battlemaster issue I alluded to, maybe I'm just looking at it wrong, and the Dominator is not a Heavy Omnimech, but a Fat Medium, as is (far too often, imo) Wolf Tradition. Was that intentional? At a glance, it compares favorably to our last sixty five ton fat medium, the Linebacker. I'd rather have a Domi than a LB. Though, really, I'll probably wind up fielding both together in stars.
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I had no hand in the Domi whatsoever, but to me it looks like a non-omni that can fill the Linebacker's "Fat Medium" role in 2nd line forces. The speed & jets should let it keep up with some of the faster/lighter stuff. The weapons will lay a hurt on the smaller guys and its armor should help it stick around.
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I had no hand in the Domi whatsoever, but to me it looks like a non-omni that can fill the Linebacker's "Fat Medium" role in 2nd line forces.
Tech Readout at the back lists the Domi as an Omni.
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Really? My copy doesn't. The last sentence before the Deployment section reads: "Trading firepower for protection gives this second-line BattleMech..."
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It also says Config: Biped OmniMech.
I’m fairly sure the Config line is the error.
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Thank you, now I see it. Considering there were a bunch of rank mixups for Marrota, I'm going to agree with you and assume it is an error.
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'Wolf designed Griffin C' . . . question is, did they built it off the Griffin 3M or 5M? I would guess it is like the Orion C and Longinus C which would come off Kalidasa (and the BA also off Stewart maybe) . . . though the Griffin 3M had been built on Keystone, it was one of the in-active lines for Obj Raids FWL.
A 5/8/5 with either a Clan ERPPC & LRM20 or a Clan Gauss Rifle, 2 ERML and a LRM15 or bigger, its a very solid medium for filling out secondline forces that have Tundra Wolves, Blood Reapers, Orion C, and IS med salvage.
Also, the story implies- with all the mechs sent as gifts being new in primer gray- that the Crusader Wolves are building Linebackers, or at least someone is so they could buy it from the Foxes new.
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A shame if it isn't an Omni, there are a few really irritating issues that could be fixed with an easy repod. Of course, being able to change more than that for a new variant is also a good option.
The 65-ton 5/8 Omni role is veeeeeery limited in 3150. You have:
Ebon Jaguar (no longer in production)
Crossbow (Raven exclusive in Dark Age)
Karhu (Dominion exclusive)
Hellbringer (no longer in production)
That's it, that's the list. Throwing that entire weight class on the mercy of attrition strikes me as a not great idea.
If the Dominator lived up to its 3K BV price tag I'd even call it a solid design, but it hits multiple bad breakpoints for BV without hitting any good ones.
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Alaric Ward sent the Dragoons-
Command Lance
Tundra Wolf 4
Timber Wolf T (2 LRM racks, 3 ERSRL and something in arms)
maybe the 2nd Linebacker & Pack Hunter
Striker Lance
Blood Reaper
Linebacker E
Griffin C
Dominator
Warwolf
Wulfen A
Linebacker
Orion C
Goliath C- Gauss Rifle & MPL at least
Pack Hunter
Not a cheap gift . . . and what he sent was very 'Wolf' in their production- Linebacker & Timber Wolf dating to pre-Refusal and Pack Hunter tying in with the Wardens.
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Also, the story implies- with all the mechs sent as gifts being new in primer gray- that the Crusader Wolves are building Linebackers, or at least someone is so they could buy it from the Foxes new.
Well, it could just be /rebuilt/ like so many DA mechs are. The Wolves likely have come into possession of some of the republic boneyards as they feast upon the republic's remaining territory.
I don't believe any linebacker production survived in the sphere, so if it IS newly built, my best bet is that VEST on solaris hand-built it for the wolves. Why anyone would go to those lengths for a Linebacker, I don't really know. Seems more likely to be freshly resurrected from a dead mech, than bespoke production.
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I have a character ready to go with Epsilon using League salvage, Lyran Isorla and some Wolf production crewed by a mix of trueborn Wolves, Clan freebirths, a Warden Wolf, Republic abathka, a few Horses, and some Wolf Empire freebirths.
Star Colonel Roland Vickers
(1g/3p- random rolled veteran, SPA tbd on random roll)
Often described has a short Elemental though he does not have any Elemental genes mixed in that the Scientist caste will acknowledge, he feeds this image with a rigorous weightlifting and work-out regimen that plays to Mechwarrior biases of Elementals being mentally slow. The camouflage lets him constantly surprise his opponents who underestimate his abilities when it comes to bidding in Trials. As part of his cardio exercises Roland incorporates martial exercises using swordwork, particularly a hand & a half sword. This started as part of his research into famous warriors with his name where he learned of Roland and Durendal. He has named his Templar Omni Durendal to incorporate that story into his personal image, and regularly paints a sword with the Charlemagne shield on the shoulder guards.
Being born into the Crusader Wolves, he did not plunge into endorsing the Crusader ideology that still prevails among the OZ Wolves. When Malvina began her massacres in the Republic and later as Khan of the Falcons he began to argue they should reave her tainted genes from the Clans. While not saying it outright, a lot of Roland’s arguments about taking action against Malvina were reminiscent of the Warden arguments of the preceding centuries. While satisfied with his combat assignment into the Republic in ’43 Roland regretted not being on Tharkad when Malvina launched her co-invasion, though no actions were fought between her and the Wolves.
Several years later when the Wolves dropped on the Falcons who had invested Hesperus, Roland’s cluster participated as a reserve for Alpha Galaxy allowing him to carry his fight to the Falcon & Horse adherents of Malvina’s Mongol philosophy. The 21st Wolf Guards took no Falcon bondsmen but did take several Horses as well as the isorla needed to increase the Clan tech rating.
Codex (Military History)
Graduated the sibko in 3131 (18)
First action was participating in the Trial of Possession for Colmar (3131) as a Star Commander in a Tundra Wolf
Various small actions ’32 to ’35 resulting in a transfer to the 4th Wolf Guards.
Fought on Nusakan in ‘37 as part of 4th Wolf Guards, a Star Commander with an Omni- Mad Dog III B
After the battle, Star Commander Roland participated in a Trial of Possession for an open Star Captain slot in the 4th- fought unaugmented.
Participated in the invasion of League space until he trialed for a Star Colonel slot in Epsilon Galaxy in late 3139 which he had to trade his Mad Dog III for a new Tundra Wolf
When the Wolves turned on the Lyrans, his plan for Epsilon’s actions relied on them breaking down into half clusters to quickly hit Lyran forces & depots. During that time his cluster refit themselves with captured Lyran equipment which included some of Clan manufacture and IS Omnis. Star Colonel Roland Vickers took as personal isorla a original Templar OmniMech for a Lyran Hauptman he claimed as a bondsmen.
Participated in saKhan’s attack into the Republic’s VIII Prefecture as part of cadre for the three sibko galaxies, particularly Zeta.
Reserve cluster for Alpha Galaxy’s attack on Hesperus against Falcon & Horse clusters.
Let us kill some Jade Falcons trothkin!
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I'm still there story missing with Wolves accepting the surrender of New Earth to them by the Fidelis. That mighty risky move for them to do with Clan Wolf if the figure out who they really are. Clan life could come back again for the Fidelis. The scientists will figure it out sooner or later.
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I'm still there story missing with Wolves accepting the surrender of New Earth to them by the Fidelis. That mighty risky move for them to do with Clan Wolf if the figure out who they really are. Clan life could come back again for the Fidelis. The scientists will figure it out sooner or later.
Well, it's a departure from the Rome Timeline where The Fidelis went "We are Clan Smoke Jaguar, and you shall not pass" except they were not Gandalf facing the Balrog, they were the swordsman from raiders of the lost ark, and like indy the Wolves just shot them after their fancy display and continued on over them
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I wonder if the Dominator we got in the story was the experimental model, like the Mad Cat Mk IV PRs were the proof of design function before the Foxes were going to put on the Ferro-Lam and XXLs.
The model name does not hold to Clan conventions, making this seem like it could have been the conversion of a frame already under development by one of the big mech factories the Wolves took. It also has 'X' in the model designation, something typically reserved for experimental designs by IS brands. The POV PC talks about how it seems to be a well armored mech designed to deal with the Falcons new love of melee . . .
. . . with how advanced the Skinwalker is . . . and borrowing IS tech already like the Stealth Armor on the Wulfen . . . why not a TSM design to replicate the Executioner that has a supercharger? You can get a very tough melee mech using Ferro-Lam, TSM, JJs, and Reinforced Structure while still giving it a glut of Clan energy weapons to keep up its +9 heat . . . and if the armor & choices are juggled properly, require a 3t TC.
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The Wolves still lack substantial OmniMech production capability. The Dominator nicely fills that by giving them a heavy Omni that lacks advanced components and can be readily put into mass production. Everything on it barring the Supercharger goes back to the mid-late 29th century.
Outside of the Domninator, the only other heavy Omni they produce is the Warwolf. That's a design with advanced tech (Reactive armour and more, depending on the config) and has so far been reserved for ristars and senior officers (and real Wolf heroes, like Marissa). The Dominator, conversely, could be the "low end" to the Warwoof's "boss monster". Otherwise, the Wolves are dependant on salvage, trade and Jihad (or older) veterans for their heavy Omnis.
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Yeah . . . that was 3145 report by the Republic. Meanwhile they have been building Orion Cs, Griffin Cs, and likely Goliath Cs along with Longinus Cs . . . They have worked out some trade with the Foxes, to the point the Foxes are shuttling Wolf envoys and troops around on Command Circuits. The Foxes also ended up with a large cache of Clan materials from the dead Cats in beginning to mid '43- I cannot remember if it was weapons or industry they took from the Combine. If weapons, it explains the surge of mixed tech designs coming out of the Wolves. If industry, it would explain the upgrade of factories. I would suggest the Wulfen was a more advanced design than the Warwolf, and a gage of their technical expertise with the mating of IS & Clan tech.
Tried to find the bit in the FM or ER where it talked about what happened.
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Roland's personal ride . . . https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=69488.0 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=69488.0) . . . working with what Epsilon captured to keep with the theme of the name. Btw, since I left it out of the bio . . . anyone want to guess what he names the Templar?
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The Wolves still lack substantial OmniMech production capability. The Dominator nicely fills that by giving them a heavy Omni that lacks advanced components and can be readily put into mass production. Everything on it barring the Supercharger goes back to the mid-late 29th century.
Outside of the Domninator, the only other heavy Omni they produce is the Warwolf. That's a design with advanced tech (Reactive armour and more, depending on the config) and has so far been reserved for ristars and senior officers (and real Wolf heroes, like Marissa). The Dominator, conversely, could be the "low end" to the Warwoof's "boss monster". Otherwise, the Wolves are dependant on salvage, trade and Jihad (or older) veterans for their heavy Omnis.
Do we know that this is an omni for sure? The technical blurb says it is, but it has a lower arm actuator in the ppc arm.
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Do we know that this is an omni for sure? The technical blurb says it is, but it has a lower arm actuator in the ppc arm.
From my understanding is Mr Pardoe designed this machine first and then Brett Evans helps with the rest of it. Maybe it's a mix of the two authors efforts and maybe they didn't quite catch everything. I got the impression that Goliath C was being operated by the dragoons so I didn't get the impression that it came from the Wolf Empire. It seem to me it was already part of the Dragoons.
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No, the Goliath C was operated by one of Crews 'rebels.' Additionally, IIRC the Crusader Wolves also ended up with a Goliath factory.
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Brigadier's plant on Oliver
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Brigadier's plant on Oliver
I admittedly haven't read the new book yet, but wouldn't Corean's factories on Stewart be the more likely culprit? Oliver's plants were probably converted like most of them over to IndustrialMech stuff during the Stone Age.
Edit: Just checked and Oliver hadn't been producing the Goliath in some time.
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Call it wishful thinking that the Goliath C would be based on the unseen model rather than a Phoenix one
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Maybe the Dominator was intended as Omnimech, but due the need for producing more Mechs the Chassis was used for a BattleMech with hardwired equipment.
So later there could be an Omnimech using the chassis.
Would have been the first time.
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So, ilClan, huh? If that is the way it goes, AND PRETTY MUCH EVERY INDICATOR IS THAT IT IS, does it seem to anyone else that this was telegraphed, perhaps unintentionally since the original invasion.
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That it comes down to the Wolves & Falcons? Perhaps . . .
I look forward to the epic battle, but we do not know who will win because there is a conflicting narrative thread that has been planted.
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The battle for IlClan may be a Pyrrhic victory for the winner. The Call of Terra is also a Curse. Everyone who has taken Terra throughout BT history gets destroyed sooner or later...
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While there's never any such thing as "too much" Omni production, the Wolves are producing
Light: Wulfen
Medium: Skinwalker
Heavy: Warwolf, Dominator(?)
Assault: Tomahawk II
Supplemented with Standard Battlemech production, and access to other chassis like the Savage Wolf via the Sea Foxes that's respectable. Especially when the Warwolf production is also a potential source of Timber Wolf spare parts (to refurbish and perpetuate old chassis) and the Tomahawk line is practically brother to the Dire Wolf in the same way.
The reason I wish it was a Medium, is that the Skinwalker is a very specialized, and probably rather rarified design given how much of a bloody gundam the thing is. But given the negative effects of Enhanced Imaging Surgery, there is a natural bottleneck on how many willing Skinwalker pilots you are going to have, no matter how awesome it is.
That said, I grow more and more comfortable with the idea of the Dominator as a Fat Medium, placed into medium roles.
(none of this is to say that I wouldn't love to see older omni designs resume production either. I find the idea of a mixed star of Timber Wolves, Warwolves and Gargoyles more appealing than a star of five Warwolves. I'd rather have a mixed star of Wulfens and Phantoms than a star of all Wulfens, and so on)
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After reading Mr Pardoe's blog. His Divided We Fall tip ice berger Clan Wolf rampage across the Inner Sphere! I hope anyways!
A side comment. Was there a Griffin C from the Clan Invasion Era? It's refitted BattleMech from back then right? I wasn't able find it on Mul or Sarna.
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There was a shadow hawk C but no griffin C to my knowledge
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Its 'new' . . . I hope they used the Griffin 3M rather than 5M though a -6S factory would not be a bad starting point. Any of the 3 with Clan weapons is pretty solid, but the -6S LFE give it Clan XL like survivablity.
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There was a shadow hawk C but no griffin C to my knowledge
Your right. I finally got to my books. The "C"s were originally introduced in The Battle for Twycross scenario book, then given actual record sheets in RS: 3085 Project Phoenix.
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Its 'new' . . . I hope they used the Griffin 3M rather than 5M though a -6S factory would not be a bad starting point. Any of the 3 with Clan weapons is pretty solid, but the -6S LFE give it Clan XL like survivablity.
In TRO 3145 the New Tech New Upgrades section has the -6S2 which swaps the IS LRMs for Clan LRMs. Potentially the Griffin C could just be a Wolf upgrade of this that swaps the remaining weapons (ERPPC & ERML) for Clan versions with 1 ton to spare. I don't know how likely it would be to keep the Boosted C3 slave though.
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I wonder if Garner Kerensky`s mission was to convince Wolf-in-Exile to fight the Falcons allied to alaric`s Wolf Clan.
And if Anastasia Kerensky`s mission was to bring the Steel Wolves home.
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Steel Wolves are not what they were . . . those who cling to that name are those she rejected. She might be going after the Wolf Hunters.
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Steel Wolves are not what they were . . . those who cling to that name are those she rejected. She might be going after the Wolf Hunters.
I won't worry, the Wolf Hunters are likely be returned to the fold when Anastasia Kerensky has her talk with them. The Steel Wolves Inc are considered a separate merc unit as well, but their more Clan than Hunters are.
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The Wolf Hunters already joined the Wolves in 3146 at the behest of Anastasia Kerensky, her mission will have to be something else.
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What are the 3 forces mostly like to respond to the Crusader Wolves against the Falcons- especially ones that may have ties?
Already disclosed
Wolf Dragoons- sent a historian to mirror one traveling with Natasha
Possible
Warden Wolves/Kell Hounds- Wolves already rejected re-unification, but that was before ilClan possibility
Wolf Hunters- Anastasia's old select crew, now led by a Horse
Steel Wolves- two or three factions, some were mercs its questionable as to how many still claim the title
Snord's Irregulars- Offshoot of the Dragoons who have tangled with the Falcons, they had a large number of Falcon abathka from the 50s
Long shots
Ghost Bears- ties from Ragnar and Warden Wolves
Escorpio- The Sea Foxes know about them . . . the Wolves have ancient ties to the Scorpions and might call in the debt of honor the Scorpions feel. The distance makes it possible Garner was sent to them- 5 year mission?
I think Anastasia is going to the Wardens . . . and might have to grovel a bit. She was angry enough about her mission it talking to Marotta, while he was deflated about missing the 1st Terra battle. Garner disappeared going into 3145 . . . presumably when Anastasia became saKhan- does he resume that title when she goes off on her mission?
Was the Wolf Hunter joining part of TRO3150? I do not remember that coming up.
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The feeling I'm getting is a Grand Wolfpack Reunion.
The problem with bringing in outsiders like the Bears (who aren't likely to side with the wolves over anything, if for no reason other than the meta-level 'fedcom problem' if the bears and wolves get along too well it's game over for everyone else) or the Scorpions (who may not even be recognizable as "Clan" at this point), or even the Coyotes (to whom I would argue our bond is stronger than the one we share with the scorpions, even if they're more out of reach) is that it opens up the door to other clans saying "You didn't earn this yourselves, you had help"
But the Wolf's Dragoons have their distant ties, the Wolves in Exile are our brothers, and even the different Steel Wolves would be justifiable as Wolves to absorb.
To see our ranks swell with the scattered packs and fragments out there would be a grand thing, and it would simplify matters for factional products. no longer would you need seperate entries for the Wolves, the Exiles, the Dragoons, and the lesser packs, you would just have ilClan Wolf.
I have a different theory where Garner went. I think he went to parley with the Republic. To convince them that their end is nigh no matter what they do, but to fight a trial for Terra, and their absorbtion might mean a type of survival, a type they would never be able to arrange with the likes of Malvina Hazen.
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Alaric arranged things with Moon on New Earth to face Stone, he did not need Garner disappearing for several years for that effort IMO. Unless you want to say he managed to be picked up to go behind the wall.
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Before this, my long-standing guess was Garner’s lengthy absence was due to him out making deals with the Horses, Ravens, and Foxes.
The Horses, at least the “Mongol Classic” faction, has a hate-on for Malvina and positioning that would make them natural allies against the Falcons. And the Interface Cockpit makes its first appearance in the Horses’ Parash 3 design, which may indicate some technical interchange with the Horses that went into the Skinwalker.
The backing of some portion of the Raven warship fleet could be key in any show-down with the Falcons or Republic. And again, the Skinwalker fluff indicates that Raven Stormcrow production played some part in its creation.
And the logistics and production capability of the Foxes, or at least some of their Khanates or Aimags, could also be key to a show-down with the Falcons or Republic. If the chaos around the Republic or Malvina’s extreme actions have been bad for business, the Foxes might naturally support a stabilizing Wolf bid for power. (Anastasia has had prior dealings with the Foxes and could be going back to them, too.)
Bringing all the Wolf packs back home is as compelling a story arc as allying most of the Spheroid Clans, if not more so. I just worry about some of the leaps of logic that might be required to explain Wardens and Crusaders rejoining (Exiled Wolves) or Clanners hiring or aligning with mercs (Goons and Steel Wolves), especially after a century or thereabouts in some cases. The story will need some good exposition to explain the changes in attitude on both sides over that time.
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Well, protecting Terra and humanity from Malvina is not a leap . . .
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Wolves in Exile? I thought they gone dark after Falcons fell on Arc Royal and empire turned it's fangs on House Steiner.
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I think Anastasia is going for the Wolves in Exile. Remember she was bred in that Clan, achieved the rank of Star Colonel in her initial Trial of Position there and is rumored to be a genetic descendant of Natasha Kerensky (who the Exiles hold her DNA).
I also think it's more likely Garner went to the Kell Hounds (if they weren't with the Exiles). It's also possible he went in search of others mentioned like Snord's Irregulars (off employed with the Fed Suns last I saw). I'm not sure if the Wolves would know enough to know where the Scorpions were if they were even interested in having them join the Wolves.
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Well, protecting Terra and humanity from Malvina is not a leap . . .
The Exiles (or what’s left of them) certainly have a reason to go after the Falcons after Arc Royal.
Not so much the Goons and Steel Wolves. The Steel Wolves only had a couple skirmishes with the Falcons a couple decades ago, and I’m not sure the Goons have ever tangled with the Falcons.
The Steel Wolves have some attachment to Terra having once fought there and being a former Republic faction.
But it’s tenuous, and I don’t see any reason for Terra to be a priority for the Exiles and Goons at this time. The Exiles have bigger problems closer to home (or what’s left of it), and the Goons will remember what happened the last time they fought in the Terran system.
Even if Malvina starts throwing WMDs, I don’t see any of these groups fighting for the good of humanity. Two are merc companies far away in Combine and League space, and one is a Clan fragment fighting for its survival.
I’m sure a logical, compelling story for all these wolf packs to unite behind Clan Wolf could be made. But after decades to a century-plus apart, with large political divisions between them (Warden vs Crusader), and huge cultural gulfs between them (Clan vs Merc), it needs some careful thought and explanation.
These packs made decisions to separate from Clan Wolf for very good reasons. There need to be very good reasons for them to join back up.
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*snip*
Not so much the Goons and Steel Wolves. The Steel Wolves only had a couple skirmishes with the Falcons a couple decades ago, and I’m not sure the Goons have ever tangled with the Falcons.
*snip*
But it’s tenuous, and I don’t see any reason for Terra to be a priority for the Exiles and Goons at this time. The Exiles have bigger problems closer to home (or what’s left of it), and the Goons will remember what happened the last time they fought in the Terran system.
Even if Malvina starts throwing WMDs, I don’t see any of these groups fighting for the good of humanity. Two are merc companies far away in Combine and League space, and one is a Clan fragment fighting for its survival.
I’m sure a logical, compelling story for all these wolf packs to unite behind Clan Wolf could be made. But after decades to a century-plus apart, with large political divisions between them (Warden vs Crusader), and huge cultural gulfs between them (Clan vs Merc), it needs some careful thought and explanation.
These packs made decisions to separate from Clan Wolf for very good reasons. There need to be very good reasons for them to join back up.
Huh? The Dragoons were fighting the Falcons since the end of the Jihad until they changed employers to the Dracs- over 50 years? Their Clan gear and some of their Clan dropships COME from the Falcons- their animosity to the Falcons was why Marotta was sent to them. Legacy Dragoons were feeling the call to return to defend humanity from a ilKhan Malvina per the latest fiction.
When Alaric extended his first call for the Wardens to return, he was still in the Crusader position- taking Terra and then having to defend it & the ilClan-ship from ending up in Mad Malvina's hand IMO fits the mission of the Wardens. Particularly Ulric's charge to them, to defend the Inner Sphere from the excesses of the Crusaders. WIth the Crusader Wolves becoming the ilClan and having to defend their claim to the title, the Warden/Crusader political split no longer has as much meaning . . . and both philosophies had watered down some what from the Great Debate.
wantec-
The Scorpions are known to the Sea Foxes I thought . . . and they are providing Alaric with a lot of logistical support. Garner dropped out of the sceen in 3145- we get a little column, 'Where is Garner Kerensky'- and in Divided we get told he had just returned to Wolf Command. Out of sight from intel agencies for five years . . .
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wantec-
The Scorpions are known to the Sea Foxes I thought . . . and they are providing Alaric with a lot of logistical support. Garner dropped out of the sceen in 3145- we get a little column, 'Where is Garner Kerensky'- and in Divided we get told he had just returned to Wolf Command. Out of sight from intel agencies for five years . . .
That could be the case, and I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying I have trouble keeping track of who knows what in-universe in this section of the timeline.
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That could be the case, and I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying I have trouble keeping track of who knows what in-universe in this section of the timeline.
War of Reaving does talk about the Scorps becoming the Imperio in it, and since that's fluffed as being a Spheroid Clan intel report, the Wolves should know that as well. What's more up in the air is whether the Wolves are aware of the questionably-true information presented in IP3 showing that the Scorps are having some pretty important issues - and more importantly - are clearly attracting the attention of the Homeworld Clans.
But that said, I'd be surprised if the Scorps had anything to do with this story arc. Seems like a bit of a stretch and it'd certainly be a majorly risky move for the Wolves to get them involved.
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War of Reaving does talk about the Scorps becoming the Imperio in it, and since that's fluffed as being a Spheroid Clan intel report, the Wolves should know that as well. What's more up in the air is whether the Wolves are aware of the questionably-true information presented in IP3 showing that the Scorps are having some pretty important issues - and more importantly - are clearly attracting the attention of the Homeworld Clans.
But that said, I'd be surprised if the Scorps had anything to do with this story arc. Seems like a bit of a stretch and it'd certainly be a majorly risky move for the Wolves to get them involved.
That's right, thank you. So they know where the Scorpions went. That, the Supplemental, and the Interstellar Expeditions book are the last ones that discuss the Scorpions.
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I am not sure its risky to speak with them or involve them in the IS . . . but Alaric is grabbing for all the troops he can, and while the Wolves might not have been as close to them as the Coyotes, the Scorpions feel they have a obligation. Alaric has always used the levers provided to manipulate people to do what he wants, and its a pretty big lever. Only reason I threw it out was Garner Kerensky was gone for 5 years or more . . . and IIRC, it was specifically Kerensky involved in that honor debt.
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I am not sure its risky to speak with them or involve them in the IS . . . but Alaric is grabbing for all the troops he can, and while the Wolves might not have been as close to them as the Coyotes, the Scorpions feel they have a obligation.
The risk I'm imagining is more along the lines of how fishing for Imperio support could end up reeling in some bigger and more dangerous fish. Assuming everyone's still around, if the Homeworld homeboys pick up on the Scorps moving towards the Inner Sphere, and their Watch agents tell them why, it could directly cause Operation Revival 2: MegaTainted Boogaloo
And that would be most ungood.
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Those whom were fortunate to receive their copies, Shrapnel Issue #1 came out, it has some INTERESTING information about Annie K and parties involved in the Wolf Hunters novel.
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Those whom were fortunate to receive their copies, Shrapnel Issue #1 came out, it has some INTERESTING information about Annie K and parties involved in the Wolf Hunters novel.
Oooo, hadn't gotten that far yet. Time to skip ahead
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Given the idea that Garner Kerensky travelled the Periphery, maybe he even tried to get in contact with Clan Coyote?
When the Wolves were expulsed at the beginning of the WoR, their relations to the Coyotes were very good.
Alaric might try to revive this.
How the other Home Clans might respond to such a foreign intrusion, it could get them into war.
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We have more stories about the wolf related mercenary units now this we have more stories about the wolf related mercenary minutes. It brings an interesting question what's going on with the remains of the original steel wool. They were in the wolf Hunter novel but they were the most clan of the bunch versus the one to join Jameson's Juggernaut and 1/2 called themselves the steel wolves Inc so there's no information last time I check of them other than they were offering as a mercenary unit. Has anyone heard anything or read anything about them because I had noticed them in shattered Fortress but I may have missed that.
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I am not sure its risky to speak with them or involve them in the IS . . . but Alaric is grabbing for all the troops he can, and while the Wolves might not have been as close to them as the Coyotes, the Scorpions feel they have a obligation.
I still do not think we will see non-wolf entities brought in to assist. I will go so far as to predict that we will not even see what remains of the Kell Hounds courted (although, it's obvious who they'll go after, you do not even need to elicit their assistance to get them going after the Falcons) because if you bring in an entity without origin ties to the Wolf Clan, it opens the door to attacks on the strength and legitimacy of the Wolf's claim on ilclanship. The assistance brought in would have to be strong enough to doom anyone who would even question the Wolf claim.
The main exception to the above, as far as I can see it, is absorbtion. If they can find groups willing to be absorbed into Clan Wolf (and thereby become wolves) then that's just growing the Clan, that's not exterior assitance.
Beyond even all that though, I do not think the scorpions, as we last saw them, are in any position to render Clan Wolf assistance. In the Wars of Reaving, they were run out of the homeworlds on a rail for their laxity and ease in an era where their enemies were rallying around concepts of conservatism and purity. And they sought refuge by fusing with a deep periphery realm, and began producing armed industrials (see: Reptar, Arana) to try and bolster their strength.
Then, the next glimpse of any sort that we get is a rulebook that uses a theoretical Coyote invasion of the Imperio as a demonstration for how the rules would work. Canonocity of this is dubious at best, but it does not bespeak a mindset of Scorpion strength. Additionally, at this stage of the game, without foreshadowing, without something to prime us for their reappearance, the sudden presence of a homeclan faction is going to feel like a bit of an asspull. Not that these things (cough cough GoT Season 8 cough cough) don't happen, but I think there's a lot of awareness lately that deus ex machina like that make for unsatisfying stories.
And Lets say we DO get a Grand Wolfpack Reunion.
TRO 3145 is our most-recent accounting of forces. Certainly things have occurred since, but it's the most recent option we have, and still valid for some of these forces.
Wolf Empire: 14 Galaxies. 7 of which are wholly second-line garrison forces.
Wolf in Exile: In 3145 was 3 galaxies, but after the fall of Arc Royal, we can hope for, perhaps a galaxy worth of survivors. More likely a couple of clusters, but if the focus was on evaucating personnel, it might be able to reconstitute them to a galaxy worth. Dire straits, but perhaps that will make them more amenable to reunion.
Wolf's Dragoons: 3 Regiments, 3 Battalions. So, roughly 4 Regiments of strength, presumably those three seperate battalions are organized loose for operational reasons. The Field Manual indicates that they still field large quantities of Clantech. Converting that roughly to clan org, let's call that 2-3 Galaxies of strength
Snord's Irregulars: If somehow they were convinced that their distant clan origins were reason enough to return, they would bring another Battalion to the table. Relatively speaking a drop in the bucket. I'd consider this a rather weak link and weak possibility.
Steel Wolves: 1 Cluster, if they could be courted
Wolf Hunters: Already Absorbed.
Brings us up to rouglhy 18 Galaxies of strength, 7ish of which are going to continue holding ground, leaving 11 to do the frontline work. That seems like more than enough to stay the Falcon Tide, and mount a credible trial for Terra to me. Especially if one considers that the Horses have ample reason to hold a grudge against CJF and are flush with the spoils of the former Wolf OZ. The Falcons may find themselves barred from Terra by one set of wolves, and their hometurf imperiled by Horse Revenge.
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Still want to know where/how it described the Wolf Hunters absorption.
Dragoons independent battalions are organized like the 37th Striker with vehs instead of the ASF so- star of mechs, star of vehs and star of BA per trinary (at leat 3 total) with a Aero trinary. Regiments . . . Gamma was the only full one in '42 but FS salvage might have built Alpha and Beta from the cadres into formations.
The Hounds have intermingled enough with the Warden Wolves that I think its possible.
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Still want to know where/how it described the Wolf Hunters absorption.
According to Lyran Intelligence Corps reports, Anastasia Kerensky, former Alpha of the Wolf Hunters, had recently earned the position of saKhan of Clan Wolf. Upon being appointed to the second most powerful post in the Clan, Kerensky extended to her former mercenary unit an invitation that stopped short of outright demanding they join their rightful place in Clan Wolf. The Wolf Hunters unanimously acquiesced to Anastasia’s request and departed for the Wolf Empire despite still being under contract to the Lyran Commonwealth. Whether the Wolf Empire employed them as mercenaries or absorbed them into Clan Wolf’s touman is unknown.
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We have more stories about the wolf related mercenary units now this we have more stories about the wolf related mercenary minutes. It brings an interesting question what's going on with the remains of the original steel wool. They were in the wolf Hunter novel but they were the most clan of the bunch versus the one to join Jameson's Juggernaut and 1/2 called themselves the steel wolves Inc so there's no information last time I check of them other than they were offering as a mercenary unit. Has anyone heard anything or read anything about them because I had noticed them in shattered Fortress but I may have missed that.
According to the short story "Wars and Rumors" in the new shrapnel magazine most of the Juggernauts left (aprox. 70%) to harass Clan Jade Falcon. The rest consisting of 2 mechwarriors, 20 infantry, a point of armor, and a point of elementals would protect the Galatean League from reprisals
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Lol, I have not gotten to that one yet!
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According to the short story "Wars and Rumors" in the new shrapnel magazine most of the Juggernauts left (aprox. 70%) to harass Clan Jade Falcon. The rest consisting of 2 mechwarriors, 20 infantry, a point of armor, and a point of elementals would protect the Galatean League from reprisals
No no, there like two in name "Steel Wolves" mercenary/pirates?/mini-clans out there. I wasn't talking about the Juggernauts. The Steel Wolves i'm talking about is a Cluster of troops lead by Galaxy Commander Xera. Who took most of the aerospace assets of the original Steel Wolves with them. They are listed FM3145 on contract on Holt as mercenaries, but their most clan like of all of the former Wolves.
I'm not sure if Steel Wolves Inc (no mech assets, most of the infantry/vehicles) is still around. They have been too small to be listed.
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In the new Shrapnel magazine is the article Secrets of the Sphere: The Cameron Question (article) - 3150.
This is interesting now shortly before they will publish ICLAN, they do an article about the old Star League ruling family.
Furthermore, the Wolves gave Clan Coyote the Winson bloodname, that of Jennifer Winson, who was maybe the last surviving member of the Cameron family.
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In the new Shrapnel magazine is the article Secrets of the Sphere: The Cameron Question (article) - 3150.
This is interesting now shortly before they will publish ICLAN, they do an article about the old Star League ruling family.
Furthermore, the Wolves gave Clan Coyote the Winson bloodname, that of Jennifer Winson, who was maybe the last surviving member of the Cameron family.
I think what was largely forgotten was that a Cameron survivor married into prominent Rasalhague family and descendant married Theodore Kurita.
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I think what was largely forgotten was that a Cameron survivor married into prominent Rasalhague family and descendant married Theodore Kurita.
That was, to the best of my knowledge, a forged ancestry created by Indrahar to keep Takashi from purging Theodore's family.
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That was, to the best of my knowledge, a forged ancestry created by Indrahar to keep Takashi from purging Theodore's family.
Considering no one has mentioned it since then I tend to agree, especially since Minoru had become a Nova Cat. With that knowledge and proof, Clan Nova Cat would be a lot more dominant in the Inner Sphere.
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Smells like a red herring-scented smoke screen to me
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I do wonder if the Coyotes being the holders of the Winson Originals means that we will be reaching out to them once ilClan. Of the homeworld clans, they are the only one I would trust. They did well by us in our last days in the homeworlds.
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Given that the Homeworld clans view those in the Inner Sphere as tainted traitors who were responsible for the near-destruction of Clan Society, that's unlikely at best. And given that the Wolves were seen as being responsible for the destruction of the Kerensky legacies and blood chapel...
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Did... Did you miss all the assistance the 'Yotes gave the wolves during their exit from the homeworlds? How a lot of the Wolves who helped do those things were themselves Coyotes up until they were traded to the Wolves?
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I do wonder if the Coyotes being the holders of the Winson Originals means that we will be reaching out to them once ilClan. Of the homeworld clans, they are the only one I would trust. They did well by us in our last days in the homeworlds.
When the Homeworlds do learn of the ilClan I thinks it will be more akin to an open conflict between the Inner Sphere Clans and the Homeworld Clans and everyone else in the middle. They may also reinforce the Protomechs as a primary fighting vehicle due to the Homeworlds limited resources and recovery from the WoR.
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Worrying about a threat from the Home Worlds is a mirage Homies fans keep telling us about . . . with no evidence or even indication we will ever see those Clans again. Sea Foxes are the traveled Clan and they are not preparing for the threat, the IS Clans have abandoned some of their more marginal periphery worlds- not even concerned about the Homies enough to maintain tripwires!
But I agree, the current Coyotes are what . . . 32 Clan 'generations' from the last Wolf-Coyote contact, the bond is dead.
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Worrying about a threat from the Home Worlds is a mirage Homies fans keep telling us about . . . with no evidence or even indication we will ever see those Clans again. Sea Foxes are the traveled Clan and they are not preparing for the threat, the IS Clans have abandoned some of their more marginal periphery worlds- not even concerned about the Homies enough to maintain tripwires!
But I agree, the current Coyotes are what . . . 32 Clan 'generations' from the last Wolf-Coyote contact, the bond is dead.
Considering that the Oberon Confederation is being reformed without any overt Clan influence, I agree. However it should be noted that most both Clan Sea Fox is trying to take over large portions of the Inner Sphere through trade and other Clans are expanding their holdings. Sounds to me when the IClan does appear few will be able to oppose them except if the Homeworld Clans appear.
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Worrying about a threat from the Home Worlds is a mirage Homies fans keep telling us about . . . with no evidence or even indication we will ever see those Clans again.
I think the big driver for the notion that the Homeworld Clans will invade and imperil the sphere is the April Fools Day Outline that Ben Rome did supposedly for ilClan that had the Homeclans do exactly that, conquering, smashing and absorbing Sphere clans to make the ilClan. But I think we can mostly consider that invalidated by Shattered Fortress.
But I agree, the current Coyotes are what . . . 32 Clan 'generations' from the last Wolf-Coyote contact, the bond is dead.
And we're how many generations out from the debt that the Scorpions felt towards Clan Wolf? Or the Annihilation of the Not Named? The Clans have long memories for the things they choose to recall, for things that make it into the mythos of a particular clan. While I acknowledge there is a decent chance that the bond has lapsed, I also think that the brotherhood between Wolf and Coyote, much as the brotherhood between Kerensky and Kerensky was ingrained enough in the mythology of those clans, that it COULD be perpetuated to this day.
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a home clan intervention on terra at this point would be a neat magic trick indeed.
but if the adders show up on the coreward border sometime in the next year after the events of shattered fortress, that would be unsurprising.
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Did... Did you miss all the assistance the 'Yotes gave the wolves during their exit from the homeworlds? How a lot of the Wolves who helped do those things were themselves Coyotes up until they were traded to the Wolves?
Not at all.
But here's the thing. Let's say that the Homeworld Clans suddenly reappear in 3151. That means that it's been 75-odd years since the last contact between the Wolves and the Coyotes. Given the high turnover rates and truncated lifespans, there's not going to be anyone alive in either Clan who remembers when those bonds were current. The youngest sibkids from both Clans at the time of the WoR are going to be dead.
The last we saw of the Homeworld Clans in WoR and WoR:S made it abundantly clear what they though of the Inner Sphere Clans. They see them as being the Enemy, as being tainted and corrupted and being responsible for bringing mass destruction to the Clan homeworlds.
The Coyotes of the Homeworlds circa 3151 have been a part of that culture for numerous (Clan) generations. In many ways, they have it more so then the others, given that their existence is at the sufferance of the Star Adders, a fact that has been made abundantly clear. That the Coyotes discontinued their ProtoMech programs shows the degree that they tow the line.
And the Council of Six have also made it abundantly clear that they do not recognise the Homeworld clans as being Clan any more either. They are simply the Enemy, a group of impertinent upstarts who tried to destroy them out of pretty jealousy.
While yes, there was that long-standing debt between the Wolves and the Scorpions, that was under entirely different circumstances. That was one where the two clans co-existed alongside each other for generations. The circumstances between the post-Reavings Wolves and Coyotes are completely different. They're separated by physical space, time and a divide in their mutual philosophies that is likely irreconcilable.
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Not to mention who shares the blame for the Society depending on what has been passed down both sides might have blamed the other for the Uprising and hence the Wars of Reaving (wear the Coyotes were fried and barely alive). Also if you think about it if the Homeworlds learn that Kerenskys line was preserved they may go all out believing it to either be to tainted to live or take all of it for themselves.
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The Coyotes were driven out of the Homeworlds into the Imperio Escorpion in the early 3100s.
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so who's even theoretically left? Cloud Cobras, Star Adders, and Stone Lions?
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Which sourcebook was this from (or is this an upcoming event)
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No doubt, I'm wondering too. It sounds awesome.
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There's a blurb in Campaign Operations about it.
No, that's not a joke, that's where it is.
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Well there you go. That solves that then.
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I don't know about you, but I really like the idea of the Coyotes roaming the galaxy at large. I'm curious as to what's going on coreward, even more so than I usually am.
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It almost sounds like there will be two divergent paths. The Deep Periphery path and the Inner Sphere Path. It will be interesting when and how the Coyotes were kicked out and how it affects the rest of the Homeworld Clans
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Whatever happened to them, it's clear that they didn't approach the Inner Sphere. Or if they did, the impact that they had was minimal.
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The Coyotes were driven out of the Homeworlds into the Imperio Escorpion in the early 3100s.
Was that in Interstellar Expeditions? ???
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There is a scenario in Campaign Operations.
However, I have understood that the Coyotes try to conquer the Imperio and so establishing a new life for them away from the Adders`s power.
There is not mentioned that the Coyotes were expulsed.
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. . . the example campaign is about a player group creating a story? "'Ben' is creating a campaign for his local players, who have decided to play a Periphery campaign as Clan Coyote warriors. After some research, he decides to insert the players into the 3103 invasion of Navarre in the Escorpion Imperio."
Examples are not canon until they actually show up- each example scenario has Victor/Failure aftermaths, and appropriate 'next tracks' that we never see. While 'Ben' might refer to the writer of Wars of Reaving, its not a canon scenario. FREX, "'Chris' is creating his own story, running a Star League planetary invasion of the world of New Dallas." On pg 143 under the Map Campaign examples. 'Brian' wants the Falcons to actually earn a win on Tukayyid, and so constructs that campaign.
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. . . the example campaign is about a player group creating a story? "'Ben' is creating a campaign for his local players, who have decided to play a Periphery campaign as Clan Coyote warriors. After some research, he decides to insert the players into the 3103 invasion of Navarre in the Escorpion Imperio."
Examples are not canon until they actually show up- each example scenario has Victor/Failure aftermaths, and appropriate 'next tracks' that we never see. While 'Ben' might refer to the writer of Wars of Reaving, its not a canon scenario. FREX, "'Chris' is creating his own story, running a Star League planetary invasion of the world of New Dallas." On pg 143 under the Map Campaign examples. 'Brian' wants the Falcons to actually earn a win on Tukayyid, and so constructs that campaign.
Speaking of Ben Rome, on his blog post detailing the original ilClan book, he answered a question asking if there had been any plans regarding the Home Clans. He said he and Herb had originally intended the Home Clans to be portrayed as foils to the third Star League prior to its collapse.
Foils in Battletech usually go to war with each other, so my take away was an inverse Operation Revival where the Home Clans invade to break the Star League, rather than resurrect it- maybe in 3250.
But who knows what the plan is now that we're not doing the jump.
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With the Crusader Wolves creating the Griffin C (and Goliath C?), at a guess in the same vein as the Orion C & prob Goliath C, it raises the question of what chassis they based the conversion on . . .
Griffin -3M, -5M, -6S, -6S2 would IMO be the most likely candidates
Main Gun-
ERPPC/Gauss Rifle/ERPPC/ERPPC . . . the -5M gets the Clan Gauss for the weight of the Light, though would probably use the Clan/IS LRM weight differences for more Gauss ammo. The ERPPC is easy to figure out the replacement being a Clan version which gets you another ton to play with in the design.
Missile Rack-
LRM20/LRM10/LRM15 & ArtIV/Clan LRM15
Converting them all to Clan versions lets you either increase ammo, add Artemis to designs that do not have it (3M/5M) Or for the -5M also gets the next rack size up while gaining a ton of Gauss ammo. It is possible they would use a Streak system like the Orion C or a ATM system for range options.
Back Ups-
Small Laser/?/2 ERML/1 ERML
Harder here, it honestly depends on what you do with the two main weapons.
Armor-
No question here, I think the Wolves go with Ferro-Lam armor over Std or Clan FF- feeds into them being able to produce enough on their own to outfight Savage Wolves, Orion Cs, and other new designs that use the armor.
My vote would be for the -6S being used to upgrade to the C- the LFE gives it comparative robustness to Clan XLs. I think this is interesting that the Wolves are getting their medium weight line mech by putting Clan weapons on IS built internals. If the Griffin C uses the ERPPC basis of the build, the Crusader Wolves could also take the Shockwave factories and convert the line to a Shockwave C that is the medium gauss toting line mech.
What would you want to see as the Griffin C base- no design sheets (link'em) or radical changes please, as I said in the vein of Orion C & limited Goliath C description?
IF the Crusader Wolves had time to set up and build/refit mechs with Clan weapons for 2 chassis in each weight class . . . we MIGHT get a true Archer C instead of a Archer 2R C, or they call it a C2. It would be easier to use the Crusader to avoid the underweight Archer C confusion. Lights might end up with a Locust C that would be similar to the one the Crusaders were building before the Bears took the factory. I think the Goliath C might be based around the Goliath 4S. Besides the Goliath . . . maybe a Stalker C?
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There is ample time and distance, yes, that if the authors want the Coyotes to have forgotten and forsaken their bond with the Wolves, then it will make plenty of sense for it to be forgotten.
However, I maintain that it is entirely plausible, if the authors decided that they wanted the bond to be upheld, that the way clan culture works could see it remembered. Sibkos could be taught of the wolves as long lost brethren, if the coyotes wanted to perpetuate the idea. the legend could be upheld.
Hundreds of years have passed since the annihilation of the Not-Named, and yet, all people of the clans know what name not to say. The (awful) legend has been preserved, intentionally. The same could be done for good. Especially, if the Coyotes were feeling estranged from the other Home Clans.
As for that Example of dubious canonocity in CampOps, to which I already referred in this discussion, I was under the impression that it was a move to get room to grow, not because they had been forced from the homeworlds. But either way, they clearly aren't happy with the status quo in the homeworlds, if there's any canonocity to be had in those examples.
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I feel unless the the powers that be say something or they print something in a source book, it not canon. This was a what if situation. The Deep Periphery was cut off with the rest clan space.
It was mentioned that Scorpions situation going get a update.
Hopefully we will find out the Clans fate. Im not fan of the protomechs being slowly phased out or seemly so.
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The Ravens are still using ProtoMechs. And Hell's Horses?
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Eh, in the Inner Sphere the Nova Cats and Warden Wolves were using them while the SharkFoxes were building them for sale . . . by 3145, one faction is dead and the other two quit building/using Protos.
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Well, you can either have Timber Wolves or ProtoMechs, and you can’t have ProtoMechs. :)
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The story of the Not-Named has been preserved as a lesson of what happens when a Clan goes against the way of the Clans.
Here's the thing, though. The Wolves, and the rest of the Council of Six Clans are effectively the same as the Wolverines now. They bought the taint of corruption to the Homeworlds and contaminated them through their contact with the Inner Sphere. The Wolves are probably held in especially high disdain since they chose to destroy the Kerensky legacies in what would likely be seen as a childish act of defiance.
And while yes, the Coyotes did help the Wolves with their flight from the homeworlds, there's a lot more to it then just that. That generation of Coyote warriors and leaders were the same ones that allowed themselves to be taken over and corrupted by the Society, and serve as their agents in the destruction of the Clan Homeworlds.
Why would the post-Reaving Coyotes, a clan that only survives at the Sufferance of others want to associate with the Wolves or depict them as anything other then the enemy? Especially given that the Coyotes have the Cloud Cobras breathing down their necks for even the slightest slip-up.
There's no logical reason at all for the Coyotes to see the Wolves as anything other then The Enemy. They could even go so far as to pass off their previous cooperation as being the result of the same misguided traitors that sided with the Society.
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The story of the Not-Named has been preserved as a lesson of what happens when a Clan goes against the way of the Clans.
Here's the thing, though. The Wolves, and the rest of the Council of Six Clans are effectively the same as the Wolverines now. They bought the taint of corruption to the Homeworlds and contaminated them through their contact with the Inner Sphere. The Wolves are probably held in especially high disdain since they chose to destroy the Kerensky legacies in what would likely be seen as a childish act of defiance.
And while yes, the Coyotes did help the Wolves with their flight from the homeworlds, there's a lot more to it then just that. That generation of Coyote warriors and leaders were the same ones that allowed themselves to be taken over and corrupted by the Society, and serve as their agents in the destruction of the Clan Homeworlds.
Why would the post-Reaving Coyotes, a clan that only survives at the Sufferance of others want to associate with the Wolves or depict them as anything other then the enemy? Especially given that the Coyotes have the Cloud Cobras breathing down their necks for even the slightest slip-up.
There's no logical reason at all for the Coyotes to see the Wolves as anything other then The Enemy. They could even go so far as to pass off their previous cooperation as being the result of the same misguided traitors that sided with the Society.
Hmm, I think if a Wolfkhan of the Kerensky bloodhouse (a bloodline the Home Clans have thought of being destroyed) appears before their old allies and proposes a joint military action to conquer Terra and to defeat the Jade Falcons, well I can think f the Coyotes might like the idea.
However, it might be that there is a "Divided We Fall" result, some Coyotes left with Garner Kerensky, but some not. It might ead to a sundering of the Coyotes and a retaliation strike of the other Home Clans.
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Reading all the new fiction lately is Wonderful :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Looks like we will see a new massive battle between the Falcons and the Wolves. Something like the Refusal war they had that kept the Truce in place.
It will be a massive treat to see what happens in the Ilclan book when it final comes out.
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To be fair we all knew that alliance that Vlad Ward build with Marthe Pryde would collapse without those two. Hatred that those two clans have towards each other is that deep rooted. So things are pretty much back to normal way those should be. It's almost like balance of BTU has been restored.
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To be fair we all knew that alliance that Vlad Ward build with Marthe Pryde would collapse without those two. Hatred that those two clans have towards each other is that deep rooted. So things are pretty much back to normal way those should be. It's almost like balance of BTU has been restored.
Battletech is about balance there are always two sides Lyran/Draconian, Fedsuns/Cappelan, Freeworlds/themselves, IS/Clanners, and Ghost Bears/Hell's Horses. There are other groups as well but these are most apparent to me.
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It will be interesting how Clans will be seen after the IlClan era get started. From the Era Style TRO's intros of in-universe introduction by Loremaster from 3250, gave me the vibe the Clans were suppressive like the Roman Empire was. Frankly, while i don't mind reading source book noting campaigns to fight off the Clans as they take over, i'd rather skip over to 3250 where the Wolf Empire and it's Third Star League is toppled by new/old factions emerging.
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I have said this other places before, but I am all for a power in the middle of the map. An ilClanatr state centered on Terra would be cool.
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But before they leave, there’s one thing he must acquire—the body of the Great Father, Aleksandr Kerensky, interred aboard the WarShip McKenna’s Pride
BLOODNAMES OF THE FOUNDERS. :o we didn't just drop the mic on the homeworlds and steal his genes we weekend-at-bernies'ed Aleksandr freaking Kerensky!!!
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Yeah, the Wolves will feature heavily in several of the upcoming fiction pieces that were teased.
With the Wolves fighting to become the ilClan against the Falcons . . . I see it as a easy way to re-unite with the Wardens. The Crusade is over, the Wolves are (or will fight to be) the ilClan which makes the best 'Warden' strategy to defend the IS from excess to follow Ulric's path- be the leader.
However, Alaric is not the Crusader Vlad was . . . Malvina might be the one closest to the Invading Crusaders in temperament and cause.
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Maybe Aleksandr will be returning to Terra with Alaric...
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Was not Alek's coffin a BTU modern update to what Alexander was reputed to rest in?
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Maybe Aleksandr will be returning to Terra with Alaric...
Eesh. If that's true...he be next Lenin.
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Eesh. If that's true...he be next Lenin.
This would speak volumes of the quality of the upcoming Wolf ilClan.
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The Clans already kept Aleksandr's body for display on his McKenna battleship- wonder which Clan got it in Reavings?
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The Clans already kept Aleksandr's body for display on his McKenna battleship- wonder which Clan got it in Reavings?
Considering one of the upcoming stories is about an operation ordered by Vlad Ward to recover Aleksandr's body and evacuate it during the WoR, we are probably going to get a definitive answer to that soon. If you are talking about who got the McKenna's Pride, it was reactivated and used against the Steel Vipers, so I think it would be either the Adders or the Cobras.
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Meant the Pride.
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Or this will make hilarious Weekends at Bernie style film gone wrong.
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you obviously meant gone oh so right
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you obviously meant gone oh so right
I can picture the Elemental (let's call him Bob) sneaks around the streets of Strana Mechty trying make his way to the rendezvous point, puts Rayband Sunglasses on Alekendr Kerensky says, "Stay Cool, General. Were almost there." borrows a convertible hover sports coup with top down and tries drive off.
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Our Khan won in great and honorable combat against the ruler of Terra. By all rights - he is IlKhan, and First Lord AND Exarch! By defeating the ruler of Terra, the Wolf Empire has taken Terra!
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I can picture the Elemental (let's call him Bob) sneaks around the streets of Strana Mechty trying make his way to the rendezvous point, puts Rayband Sunglasses on Alekendr Kerensky says, "Stay Cool, General. Were almost there." borrows a convertible hover sports coup with top down and tries drive off.
After they break him hour of his coffin they lose track of the body while avoiding the army of guards. the shot zooms out as the heroes bicker behind some cover about LOSING KERENSKY’S BODY to frame the Great Founder slowly floating upside down while bullets fly everywhere
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Our Khan won in great and honorable combat against the ruler of Terra. By all rights - he is IlKhan, and First Lord AND Exarch! By defeating the ruler of Terra, the Wolf Empire has taken Terra!
He can also claim the Archonship and First Princedom as well
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And by some technicalities . . . via Isis marriage to his father, the League throne . . . but that takes a lot of contortions that usually are paper-thing justifications for reaching out with the iron fist.
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That said, having seperate polities as member states of a Wolf-Led Star League would be better than having six thrones himself. For one, should Alaric die, member states might remain member states, while those thrones could slip away. Further, uniting various parties into a Wolf-Led Star League would put pressure on the parties not inclined to join.
Were I the Khan, and things go down roughly as I imagine they will, we'll have a Post-Mongol Clan Jade Falcon, hurting from failure to stop the Wolf ilClanship AND from Hell's Horses preying on their OZ. Plus, focusing on the Wolves has allowed the Lyrans a moment to breathe. We'll have a Federated Suns struggling for it's survival against the Capellans and the Combine, neither of whom is a friend of ours. Plus the FS has a legitimate grievance with the Snow Ravens. So, I would offer to Clan Jade Falcon "Acknowledge our ilClanship and join our Star League. In return we will offer you the league's protection from being absorbed by the Horses and help you get back on your feet" and similarly we will reach out to the Federated Suns and offer our support against the Combine and Confederation, who are not member-states (and frankly, I can lay a significant amount of the blame for the succession wars at the combine's feet, as it was a Kurita who refused to acknowledge Davion as the successor, so there's cause for a grudge there too) in return for participating in our Star League. I am reasonably sure that the Sea Foxes will see the profit in participation, and through them we might be able to get the remnants of the cat clans to acknowledge us. Particularly if it means a chance to rebuild themselves as clans.
The Bears? Eh, the bears are going to do whatever the bears want to do. It'd be nice to see if we could entice them to tear into the Combine, but I'm not counting on it. a Bear/Wolf alliance is almost too much a fedcom-esque I Win Button. I'd be happy with a token acknowledgement and leave the Bears to do whatever they're content doing.
The Horses? Well, the Skinwalker hints at a possible Wolf/Horse Collaboration. But there is that bad blood from the late 3060s and Reaving Eras. I don't know how to call that one.
The Ravens? It'd be nice to have them. Maybe the FS joining the Star League would pressure them if they're reluctant.
The FWL could probably be brought into the fold with Sea Fox/Preserve Cat help. We've successfully dealt with them before, and we could cede some systems back as an incentive.
The Lyrans might see sense in participating if we cede some Empire worlds back and promise that participation means survival and a chance to engage in civilized trials to regain territory. Or they might resist and make a target of themselves.
I would say the Combine and the Confederation should be struck hard, humbled, made example of. Once they're bloodied, then give them the option of capitulating and acknowledging our League to end the pain. Offering the Falcons a chance to tear into the Confederation, and giving them a chance to gain territory that isn't surrounded by the Horses and the Lyrans might be welcome. Or perhaps the Bears can be tempted to take the Confederation into the fold the way they have Rasalhague, since half of their founders ancestry was Rasalhaguian and the other half was Capellan. Facilitating that might be a way to get the bears' enthusiastic participation in the league.
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Huh? '58 redux . . . Malvina loses, we absorb the Falcons . . . take that Christu.
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And by some technicalities . . . via Isis marriage to his father, the League throne . . . but that takes a lot of contortions that usually are paper-thing justifications for reaching out with the iron fist.
I want to say that her side of the line is cut off, like the Sian-Marik side.
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I mean, that would explain the... what was it, a Buhallin? that was the 3250 excerpts Loremaster. Given that the Falcons are hardline, and said excerpts mention the office of the Exarch still existing (and seperate at that) it speaks to me of a Wolf Win, or a Merger, not a Clear Falcon Victory. The Wolves? We'd probably let the civilian government continue so we could keep Wolfing around. Falcons would never tolerate that. Especially Malvina's strain.
That said, I still believe, like I said above, that the Falcons as an independent polity that acknowledges our Star League are more valuable than an absorbed Clan Jade Falcon.
THEN AGAIN, Absorbtion has worked well in the past for the Wolves. I doubt we would be nearly as far ahead as early as we were if we did not consume Clan Widowmaker's assets.
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A descendant of Victor would not necessarily be recognized as a legitimate Marik either. The bigger political question would be trueborn Mariks, if the Clan Protectorate would go there. The answer would be no, as a trueborn Marik would not be of the line of the Marik family, despite sharing the same DNA.
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I don't think we can assume a Wolf Khan becomes IlKhan. What if Malvina wins? A couple friends and I were talking about this in the last week. Couple of friends are long time Clan Jade Falcon fans and even they hate Malvina and hate what Catalyst has done to the Jade Falcons. Would this effect you? All I know is, I would be done with 3250. I would just forget that it exists myself. I want to be surprised like Clan Wolverine was laying in wait or something if it could not be a warden clan. I feel like only Clan Wolf could shoulder the responsibility to be IlKhan.
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If the Wolves win, fans scream "we saw this coming all the way."
If the Falcons win, fans scream "we saw this coming all the way."
The writers don't have it easy with this IlClan business. No wonder they are taking their time with it.
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For my part, I don't care if the who is surprising or not. What I care about is if the story is well written and the how of whoever wins is interesting and unexpected. Actually rather than finding out who becomes IlClan I'm more interested in the aftermath and how the new Star League is reformed.
Fans who cry about seeing a story result coming forever, should only look to stuff like Game of Thrones season 8 as to why constantly seeking to subvert audience expectations, especially when wrapping up a long running plot, can be detrimental to actually providing audiences with a satisfying conclusion.
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I agree with that. I'm a fan of all the Clans, and not one of the criers, either. I just want good BattleTech and I hope the IlClan is one of the true centerpieces of the BT library.
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I want to say that her side of the line is cut off, like the Sian-Marik side.
Victor renounced his & descendant's claims to the FedCom thrones- but Alaric has already made the claim, so Victor's declaration is valueless. Alaric is not even Isis blood descendant . . . BUT . . . such things have happened in history. It just usually requires the force to make it happen, which Alaric will just have plenty of around when the 3SL starts coercing folks to join.
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What if Malvina wins?
I feel like I JUST addressed this in my previous post. I don't believe she will, because I don't think the falcons would leave the republic civilian government intact, and some of the sourcebooks have had 3250-era message to the ilKhan from the Loremaster framing devices, one of which indicates that the office of the Exarch still exists.
Fans who cry about seeing a story result coming forever, should only look to stuff like Game of Thrones season 8 as to why constantly seeking to subvert audience expectations, especially when wrapping up a long running plot, can be detrimental to actually providing audiences with a satisfying conclusion.
Bloodnames of the founders yes, this, a thousand times this. I don't necessarily WANT to be surprised by a result. Most of the times, a subversion of your expectations is only satisfying a maximum of once. The writers could write an entire new clan into existence, or reveal that the Northwind Highlanders have secretly been Clan Mongoose all along, and they claim terra before any other clan can... but the fans are going to balk at that, when there's been no foreshadowing, no groundwork laid, because it's spun of pure fiat and taxes internal consistency of the narrative. That's a big part of what made the end of Game of Thrones an ass-pull. There was no strong indication that it was coming, there was no obvious descent into madness, just this whiplash quick shift to "burn em all"
It also doesn't work if you don't do your subversions fast enough. GRRM started subverting and deconstructing the fantasy genre when his take on it was fresh and new. but he took so long to do it that it went from the subversion to just another cliche.
tl;dr - just because you CAN write that dany loses it out of nowhere and torches king's landing doesn't mean that you SHOULD write it. And You can only surprise someone once and then it loses its effect.
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So if Niops defeats the Clans at Terra, declares itself ilClan, and founds the new Star League, would that meant that the Society prevailed?
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Victor renounced his & descendant's claims to the FedCom thrones- but Alaric has already made the claim, so Victor's declaration is valueless. Alaric is not even Isis blood descendant . . . BUT . . . such things have happened in history. It just usually requires the force to make it happen, which Alaric will just have plenty of around when the 3SL starts coercing folks to join.
In all likelihood, a 3rd Star League would be more of a Concert of Europe type of affair.
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So if Niops defeats the Clans at Terra, declares itself ilClan, and founds the new Star League, would that meant that the Society prevailed?
and if Ronald McDonald beheads Alaric with Shakescalibur, it would make it McDonalds, but I don't think that's got much to do with Clan Wolf.
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and if Ronald McDonald beheads Alaric with Shakescalibur, it would make it McDonalds, but I don't think that's got much to do with Clan Wolf.
It will when MaKerensky's start franchising across the sphere.
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and if Ronald McDonald beheads Alaric with Shakescalibur, it would make it McDonalds, but I don't think that's got much to do with Clan Wolf.
I thought that witticism was of the Wolf wardrobe. Since it is not so, back to the hall tree, where Eagles, and Ravens nest.
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See, you've got purple birds from hanging out next to the fwl too long!!
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See, you've got purple birds from hanging out next to the fwl too long!!
Purple Birds to the Rimward, Green Birds to the Coreward, here I am, stuck in the middle with Terra...
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Purple Birds to the Rimward, Green Birds to the Coreward, here I am, stuck in the middle with Terra...
' I am Word of Blake, death and destruction is all I make... '
TT
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' I am Word of Blake, death and destruction is all I make... '
TT
NO, you also make breakfast toast. Mr. Ride-a-Hello-"Hell" Pony.
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See, you've got purple birds from hanging out next to the fwl too long!!
the doctor promised us it wasn't contagious
sorry about that
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the doctor promised us it wasn't contagious
sorry about that
You can't believe anything the person says. The Doctor lies!
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It will when MaKerensky's start franchising across the sphere.
Zeus Burger wouldn't let that happen.
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Zeus Burger already has a franchise at the major jump points of every inhabited system
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Zeus Burger already has a franchise at the major jump points of every inhabited system
It will when MaKerensky's start franchising across the sphere.
Well and so begins Clan Wolf`s IlClanate with some food franchising. ;D
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Well and so begins Clan Wolf`s IlClanate with some food franchising. ;D
TRO: Food wars followed by turning point:Foodkasha, the 12 secret spice trials.
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Well and so begins Clan Wolf`s IlClanate with some food franchising. ;D
the SUPERIOR Fast Food Clanchise is obviously Burger Khan. Have it the Clan Way. Second to that is Taco Zell. 11 Ingredients, 50 menu items, One Gastric Duel at a Time.
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Well Jade Falcon's Star Colonel Sanders might want to add to this mix. After he conducting a food raid on Old Kentucky, he saw fit of a delicious fowl made with eleven herbs and spices. Batchalling them as isola, he claims this to be Space KFC...
Yeah, I'm fried... just wish they brought back the spicy bean again.
TT
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the SUPERIOR Fast Food Clanchise is obviously Burger Khan. Have it the Clan Way. Second to that is Taco Zell. 11 Ingredients, 50 menu items, One Gastric Duel at a Time.
Burger Khan's claim to fame is its Omniburgers that come in sizes light, medium, heavy, and assault. The customer can mix and match condiments to their heart's content, but the standard configurations are still the most popular. Most of them come with loads of cheese.
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Edit: I am going to run this joke through a moderator, then if allowed, I will repost it.
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I think the Star Colonel Burgers from Jade Falcons would out shine other franchises.
(https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=40833.0;attach=55613)
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That's all well and good until the kids whine about getting a Harpy Meal at Zeus Burger and you give in to save your sanity.
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All hail Mechwarrior Elofson, a valiant warrior who was dedicated to his Clan enough to crush the Republic force's commander at the cost of his own life.
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Despite earlier impressions, the Dominator is not an OmniMech.
Also interesting is that the various Empire "C" models are still built on IS chassis, with the weapons and such being provided by the Sea Foxes.
Time for me to get drawing
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Yeah, the Griffin C appears to be both new builds and refits of -3M & -1DS that were captured.
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It makes sense considering all the war materiel they captured, and that the quickest and easiest way to expand their Mech forces is to use the existing Mech lines from the factories they took on Stewart, Keystone, Kalidasa, and Thermopolis, only changing out the weapons and armor for Clan tech. All their C model Mechs are based on chassis in production by the various Mech factories they took from the FWL or LC.
I think it was mentioned in TRO3150 that the Wolves were impressed by the Clan Protectorates use of Guillotine IICs and Tempest Cs, so that might have inspired their own efforts at converting IS Mechs to C models.
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They did it first with the Orion C, causing the Protectorate to make the Tempest IIRC.
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I know it was delayed, but the joke was permitted so:
It is a Marik family tradition to serve every new Captain-General an In-N-Out Double Double. It is as if they are trying to convey some sort of message to the occupant. The ones sent by the Sian-Mariks were known for their... explosive... flavor.
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I went back and checked TRO3150 and it doesn't give exact dates of introduction of either the Tempest C or the Orion C, though it does state specifically that the Tempest was updated in the 3130s and that the Wolf Empire was impressed with its performance. Also, in the Orion C description it is noted as being designed as a successor to the Orion IIC.
In FM3145 under the FWL chapter it says that Jessica Marik tasked the Sea Fox Merchants of the Clan Protectorate to conduct trade negotiations with the Wolf Empire, noting that if such negotiations fell through the Spirit Cats stood ready to conduct Trials in order to gain a percentage of the Wolf Empire's military production. Considering the R10 ICVs entry in TRO3145 notes that the Wolf Empire continued to produce and sell the vehicle for export, and that the 2 Clans have a good enough relationship for the Foxes to run a command circuit between the Wolf Empire and Wolf's Dragoons it seems likely that the Sea Foxes negotiations were successful.
The negotiations could have even included Sea Fox help in bringing the captured factories up to Clan standards in exchange for a percentage of those factories production. Both Clan's merchants would have strong bargaining positions. The Wolf Empire is noted in FM3145 as holding the primary FWL factories for Mechs like the Locust, which if the FWL didn't gain access to production from the Wolf Empire would mean the FWL would have to be far more careful in their deployment of particular designs, because they couldn't readily replace their loss or indefinitely source replacement parts. The Sea Foxes on the other hand were the Wolf Empire's only reliable source of advanced Clan equipment, both in terms of quantity and quality.
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Not as if we needed the Dominator to be an omni. Still, the TRO page in the novel should be amended, since it calls it an Omni.
The Pack Hunter 5 is interesting. I like the Griffin C too. I will not have any qualms at all about the Goliath C being sold to other parties, cause I do not have a use for it.
Does mean we still have that Medium Omnimech Gap.
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For all we know Clan Wolf may not miss their lack of medium Omnis, even before the Jihad Clan Wolf's most common mediums behaved more like light mechs and sat towards the light end of the spectrum. Also, if the force gifted to the Wolf's Dragoons is an indication of what the Wolf Empire currently has in production, then it's possible that the presence of 2 Linebackers in the force indicates that they have put the Mech back into production and are using it as a fat medium. Considering we already know that 7 of the 12 Mechs are definitely in production it's not far-fetched that the other 4 designs would also have been put into production.
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The Goliath C is a superb sniper and I will happily field any that you don't want in Marik colors.
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What is the Pack Hunter 5? I was never impressed with them slapping on ER Micros rather than improving the overall chassis.
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instead of building the hermes they made a mixed tech clone of the pack hunter
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Well, the original was std armor and internals IIRC . . . so not too sure how mixed unless they gave it a IS XL.
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IS XL, IS endo, Clan FF, upped the speed to 9/14/7
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lmao, that is hilarious considering what I had said in the 'modern light' thread
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What is the Pack Hunter 5? I was never impressed with them slapping on ER Micros rather than improving the overall chassis.
the new "Pack Hunter" is a hermes with a cERPPC cosplaying as a Pack Hunter. It's an efficient approach though. Gives something that can almost keep up with a Wulfen, without investing a lot in its production. the ISXL is a little more fragile than I'd like, with its three-crits-to-a-side, but it's n/ot as if its intended to take a lot of hits to begin with. And I'll definitely take one as a Wulfen Partner over say, the Dasher II. (Though if CSF started offering Dasher II Omnis....)
For all we know Clan Wolf may not miss their lack of medium Omnis
Yeah, but people tend to bristle when I suggest that post-Refusal-War the Crusader/Imperial Wolves took on a heavier slower approach than their previous preference for mobility over weight, which seems to have departed with the Exiles. *shrug*
I'd LIKE to have something back in production or something new in production that partners well with the skinwalker, because I can already see the faces when I try to field five of those demons together. Pouncer, Linebacker, heck, I would even welcome the Lobo back into production.
The Goliath C is a superb sniper and I will happily field any that you don't want in Marik colors.
More than happy to let the merchants facilitate that. Good relations with the FWL is a plus in my book.
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It is good to be home, trothkin.
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What are you guys talking about the Wolf Empire not having a Medium OmniMech? The Skinwalker is a Medium OmniMech unless it was removed from service.
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Its also the bleeding edge of technology and there are already debates on how much Clan tech the Wolf Empire can produce . . .
. . . but the opening of ilClan RG1 also lays that argument moot. The Wolves are not depending on being able to produce all their weapons themselves. They will buy the weapons off the Foxes- perhaps even kits for Griffin 5M/1DS- and put them into their production pipeline. The solution gives me problems- I always prefer to keep my supply chain in my own hands as much as possible- but if the question is between buying & being dependent on the Foxes for Clan spec weapons and letting the Malvina's Falcons take Terra . . . well, here's the Kerenskies my fine Sea Fox friend, and please pass me another ER Large Laser pod.
If the Wolves are buying XXL engines, Ferro Lam armor, and most Clan weapons from the Foxes it leaves the Empire Scientist/Tech/Merchant caste to work out Clan spec XL engines, Clan ES, Clan FF armor, and Clan DHS. Get the Empire's technical production staff used to working with and producing Clan spec materials which lets them ease into being self-reliant in production.
So yeah, I wish we got a 7/11 50t Omni . . . but the line up is pretty solid.
Btw, what does the Dom 2 have as load out?
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Qty Type Loc
1 ER Large Laser RA
1 ER Medium Laser RA
1 LRM 20 (Art V) LT
1 ER Large Laser RT
1 Targeting Computer RT
1 ER Small Laser (R) HD
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. . . Linebacker A-ish?
Eh, the TC is better suited . . . and its something I would use over the Dragoon gift version, I prefer the reach of ERLLs over the headcap.
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What are you guys talking about the Wolf Empire not having a Medium OmniMech? The Skinwalker is a Medium OmniMech unless it was removed from service.
The Skinwalker IS a medium omni, but it is not a medium omni you can stuff just anyone in. It requires EI to operate, and the Wolves are in no position to intentionally shorten a bunch of warrior lifespans wholesale.
That said, if someone wanted to throw an OmniGyro and a spare standard cockpit in one, build a funny lookin Stormcrow... call it a Stormwalker or a Skincrow, I'd be fine with that.
Beyond that, it's mostly just... I'll never fit the BV for a star of Skinwalkers together, and people would balk at that kind of uniformity in most stars, so I want something to partner up with it.
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I wish they had added new technology stating the Battle Armor mounted cockpit warriors were NOT effectived as badly as the old Enhance Imaging people who go fruity like ProtoMech pilots.
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I wish they had added new technology stating the Battle Armor mounted cockpit warriors were NOT effectived as badly as the old Enhance Imaging people who go fruity like ProtoMech pilots.
Hopefully if the tech gets more widespread, we'll see more details on this kind of thing.
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It'll be a shame when SteveRestless has a heart attack on Friday and no longer posts in this thread....
;)
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It'll be a shame when SteveRestless has a heart attack on Friday and no longer posts in this thread....
;)
His ghost would probably haunt you Kit.
TT
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It'll be a shame when SteveRestless has a heart attack on Friday and no longer posts in this thread....
;)
This Friday? If you mean TRO Golden Century that got pushed back, https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=69619.msg1624222#msg1624222 and Steve already said in that thread he was disappointed at the wait.
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Week I've been having, I welcome a honorable death.
That said, my disappointment in having to wait is severely tempered by the fact we atleast have a predicted release, an announcement about a delay and a predicted new release date. THAT, is almost more exciting than the TRO would be
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Week I've been having, I welcome a honorable death.
That said, my disappointment in having to wait is severely tempered by the fact we atleast have a predicted release, an announcement about a delay and a predicted new release date. THAT, is almost more exciting than the TRO would be
I'm with Kit on this one (if the original date held). I was getting really excited for this one.
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I'm with Kit on this one (if the original date held). I was getting really excited for this one.
the TRO or my reaction? :P
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(https://sites.psu.edu/asrpassion/wp-content/uploads/sites/39150/2016/02/taco.jpg)
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the TRO or my reaction? :P
(https://sites.psu.edu/asrpassion/wp-content/uploads/sites/39150/2016/02/taco.jpg)
Haha, I meant the TRO, but your reaction should be a nice side benefit.
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[Desire to know more intensifies]
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I think the whole delay was just a story Ray made up so you could have some time to put your affairs in order. ;)
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I think the whole delay was just a story Ray made up so you could have some time to put your affairs in order. ;)
Lol, what, did I get written in as a Timber Wolf pilot who earned his name by rendering unsalvagable as many older model omnimechs as I could? ;P :)
As for my affairs, I'll leave them in death as they were in life. Lurid and disordered. It's too late to change :D
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This Timber Wolf chassis model is over one hundred and sixty years old, producted by the Not-Named. It has been thru much combat, it's origins are considered drezga, but it's performance is that of a bloodname trueborn ristar. History tells how it's near impossible to be destroyed.
That close enough Steve?
TT
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originally the unholy fusion of a damaged marauder and catapult, a literal mad cat? :D
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originally the unholy fusion of a damaged marauder and catapult, a literal mad cat? :D
At least you didn't use parts from a Rakasha ;)
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Double post
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This Timber Wolf chassis model is over one hundred and sixty years old, producted by the Not-Named. It has been thru much combat, it's origins are considered drezga, but it's performance is that of a bloodname trueborn ristar. History tells how it's near impossible to be destroyed.
That close enough Steve?
TT
(https://media.giphy.com/media/EiCQzmzE5HLaw/giphy.gif)
Hope that retcon is just a joke.
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/EiCQzmzE5HLaw/giphy.gif)
Hope that retcon is just a joke.
It's absolutely just TT trying (and failing) to get my goat. There's nothing factual about it at all.
That close enough Steve?
I award you no points, and may the Founder have mercy on your soul.
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I'll take none of your Gamma Quadrant garbage, thank you very much!
Dominions... have enough of your tetracell white fixings since the wars... >:D
TT
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I'll take none of your Gamma Quadrant garbage, thank you very much!
Dominions... have enough of your tetracell white fixings since the wars... >:D
TT
Lol, you two are mixing things quite a bit . . . he is not talking about the Founders, but the Founder- as in the reference to Nicky with this twist from Adam Sandler-
(https://media.giphy.com/media/uapkRCYaRl3Dq/giphy.gif)
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Is it wrong I got a clanner named Odo, of the Kerensky Bloodhouse? A ristar, but not bloodnamed as of late.
TT
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he is not talking about the Founders,
not only am I not talking about them, I don't even know who they are.
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not only am I not talking about them, I don't even know who they are.
Star Trek Deep Space Nine villains.
But no, we know you were speaking of the 800 (rather 803 ;) )
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I feel I should remind everyone I have the exclusive rights to trolling restless and as such you will all be receiving trial of grievances ;).
Just remind him it takes longer to build a timberwolf now than it does to destroy one schnehehehe ^_^.
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But have been trolling him slightly longer, says the investor of the Mauser IIC Toads. Plus I've created some funky OpFor for hi and you!
TT
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No, Foxx has been trolling me for decades.
Spoilers for ilClan Rec Guide 2
It's interesting that apparently Donegal is where CWX retreated to. Can anyone explain how Donegal is "Where it all began" as was cryptically said after they fled Arc Royal?
The Sojourner looks nice. I have pairings for a mech with that speed profile. It's really good to see the Wolves in Exile managing to build Heavy Omnimechs again. Not only is confirmation of Sphereside production of the Linebacker an interesting fact, but the addition of the Soujourner is almost enough to make me forget that amidst their most desperate hour, they wasted untold amounts of material and effort on the Mangonel, when it's perhaps the least production efficient/production friendly platform you could ask for.
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I think the fixed Supercharger on the Sojourner is an oddly retrograde choice, but a case of fluff over mechanics. From a purely gameplay point of view, it makes more sense to have a fixed MASC and then optionally pod a Supercharger.
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absolutely agree. but, suboptimal designs are often intentional
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Well yeah. Agreed there. Just an odd choice, that's all
Also, it's as ugly as all get-out
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I described it on discord to a friend as "it looks like an adder or a phantom coupled with a quickdraw and bore freeborn offspring" what with the cowl and the round head.
Still, while I like the look better than the mangonel, that is not a high bar to clear.
the D config gives me Templar A Vibes.
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Bah, Mangonel is best Wolf in Exile 'Mech ever.
...I have odd tastes
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I think the fixed Supercharger on the Sojourner is an oddly retrograde choice, but a case of fluff over mechanics. From a purely gameplay point of view, it makes more sense to have a fixed MASC and then optionally pod a Supercharger.
Why does the Sojouner C use a standard Heavy Large Laser? Is the Improve Heavy Large Laser too expensive or heavy?
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Or the Improved blows up if its hit? Looks like I am going to have to get this one if it has a Warden mech in it. The other thing to keep in mind . . . the Wardens retreated from Arc Royal and then had decisions to make- they could have temporarily set up a labor-intensive production site rather than the nifty Bear factories they acquired or planned the evacuation of Arc Royal when it became apparent they would not hold. They could have then packed up and left Donegal for that 'where it all began' bit.
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my arm was so twisted . . .
Guys, this thing looks like a heavier Ice Ferret/Pouncer combo. 4 ER micro lasers on something this slow? Why?
Otherwise . . . I think this thing has some unique weapons combinations not seen often- HLL & 2 LRM20? ERPPC, Ultra 10 & 2 MPL
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4 ER micro lasers on something this slow? Why?
Because on anything approaching a normal battlefield you will end up within a couple hexes of an enemy at some point, and they're the most efficient damage dealing weapons in the game once you start using them.
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Re: Donegal. "Any and all Kell Hounds...meet", not Wolf-in-Exile? And even that, they're only staying there for "four weeks".
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Hn, apparently misremembered who said that then.
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Now that I'm drawing the MegaMek sprite, Sojurner A strikes me as a "but why?" sort of a configuration.
Also while I agree that an Improved Heavy Large Laser would have been a better choice for the C, I can't help but feel that an ER Large Laser would have been better overall given its other weapons
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The Sojourner C kind of strikes me as a budget Timber Wolf H. Also, considering the Sojourner has a Standard engine, max armor for its weight and CASE II anywhere it carries anything volatile it seems like the Sojourner's primary emphasis is on survivability. So it maybe that the volatility of the Improved HLL was considered undesirable, especially since the AES compensates for the inaccuracy of the standard HLL.
Shattered Fortress mentions that the WiE retreated to Donegal after the fall of Arc Royal, and considering that FM3145 makes it clear that the "writing was on the wall" concerning the possibility of an overwhelming attack against Arc Royal, it makes a lot of sense that they would establish a fallback position like Donegal, in the case they couldn't hold Arc Royal. The only surprising thing is that they have a significant, seemingly well-established, Omnimech factory on Donegal producing Linebackers. Either the WiE and Lyrans were able to establish a multi-line factory in a few years time, or the WiE have gotten very good at taking down, moving, and setting up mobile factories in their time in the IS.
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The only surprising thing is that they have a significant, seemingly well-established, Omnimech factory on Donegal producing Linebackers. Either the WiE and Lyrans were able to establish a multi-line factory in a few years time, or the WiE have gotten very good at taking down, moving, and setting up mobile factories in their time in the IS.
Assault Tech Industries, the "company" producing the Sojourner, was set up in the 3120s as a joint Commonwealth/WiE project to help Clan WiE compete against Clan Sea Fox on the open market. Looks like the line was expanded afterwards.
The 'Mech itself is interesting in that it uses a super prolific spheroid engine. Pitban 240s are as common as dirt, and the fact that the Neil 6000 is as equally venerable and widely use would make Sojourner production a heck of a lot cheaper than if it used rarer components.
Also..."Intended to ease young MechWarriors into the subtleties of ’Mech combat, the Sojourner keeps its payloads simple." Guess we know what the kiddos mentioned in FM:3145 are piloting for their Trial of Positions.
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I like funny the name of the Assault Tech, since it sounds like the fan made video game from maybe decade ago, Assault Tech 1?
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Also..."Intended to ease young MechWarriors into the subtleties of ’Mech combat, the Sojourner keeps its payloads simple." Guess we know what the kiddos mentioned in FM:3145 are piloting for their Trial of Positions.
The notable pilot is a ristar among those kiddos, that plus the emphasis on survivability, reliability, and simplicity seems to be geared toward ensuring the Mech brings as many of it young pilots home as possible.
The commonly available components also would speed construction by eliminating a lot of production bottlenecks, as well as, easing maintenance and repair. The Sojourner would actually be one of the best Clan Omnimechs for a money conscious Spheroid to purchase. Certainly more cost effective in the long-run than a lot of the Foxes' current designs.
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The Endosteel it uses, Interestingly enough is the same Endo Steel Process as the linebacker and the Savage Wolf.
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Well, apparently Donegal has a Warden Linebacker line . . . have to wonder when it got established.
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I think that design intent is a key here for the Sojourner, simplify & group weapons. The AES in the RA gives a TC-like -1 for all attacks. The remaining weapons (with the exception of the Prime's ERLL and the C's LRMs) are there as backup.
I think it does its intended roles well. I'd like to go more in depth on how I'd use them and such, but I think I'll wait a bit
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I rolled up a random Falcon force to try the scenario from the TRO- ended up with Shrike, Gyrfalcon, Sentinel, Jade Hawk and something else along with 10 or so hovertanks. The Falcons had a bit under 20k BV while the Warden Wolf star had 12.5k, before pilots . . . and I think I will keep with what we have seen historical where the Wolves are better mechwarriors- Falcons are Clan regulars, Wolves are Clan vets and Falcon hovertanks are Clan greens- w/o penalties. Basing the skills on the Wolves being on the offensive against a garrison force, no zell of course.
Weird enough for me, I think I actually like the D most- usually I am a ERLL guy, but the ERPPC/UAC10 combo is appealing.
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5 veteran Sojourner Primes vs
Shrike (2/3), Stormcrow A (4/4), Sentinel 3L, Gyrfalcon, Jade Hawk 2
and
Shamash, 2 Hadur, Zephyr (Royal), 3 Lightning, Saladin (Ultra), Shamash (Int)
23516 vs 22525 (Falcon)
To help offset the lopsided init (5 vs 15), vehicles are moving as a lance which makes it 5 vs 8 for movement.
First blood to the Wolves, ERLL to the Shrike's CT at 25 hexes . . . needed 11, rolled 11.
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First kill too-
Weapons fire for Sojourner Prime #5 (Warden Wolves)
Gauss Rifle at Lightning Attack Hovercraft (Standard) (Falcon Hovers); needs 7, rolls 12 : hits (using Left Side table) LS
Lightning Attack Hovercraft (Standard) (Falcon Hovers) takes 15 damage to LS.
1 Armor remaining.
ER Large Laser at Lightning Attack Hovercraft (Standard) (Falcon Hovers); needs 8, rolls 9 : hits (using Left Side table) LS
Lightning Attack Hovercraft (Standard) (Falcon Hovers) takes 10 damage to LS.
Armor destroyed.
SECTION DESTROYED.
*** Lightning Attack Hovercraft (Standard) (Falcon Hovers) DESTROYED by damage! ***
Critical hit on LS. Roll is 8; Crew stunned for 1 turns.
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Had one hell of a satisfying takedown in my Campaign For Terra game last night.
We've been making our way, west to east, across Australia.We're wrapping things up at Melbourne, or rather, just west of it. the 15th Assault's command trinary was engaging the command elements of the massed Republic defenders, and one of their two Superheavy Tripods, a fresh Posideon, challenged a Gargoyle Prime to a one on one duel. Ellis, pilot of the Gargoyle Prime accepted.
The Worst Gargoyle Config versus a superheavy juggernaut with a 45t advantage over it? Is Ellis suicidal? Does he wish to merge with the holy soil of Terra?
No.
Ellis is a particular sort of specialist. I have leveled him from a 3/4 replacement pilot, all the way up to 1/2, with cluster hitter, sandblaster, and Weap Specialty: LB 5-X AC.
The Gargoyle's Quirk is stabilized Arm Weapons, which lets the gargoyle run at the same difficulty to hit as a walk. Good for getting into SRM Range.
WS:LBX is -2 to hit.
Cluster Ammo is -1 to hit.
His SRM-6 Packs were loading Tandem Charge.
Called Shot is +3 to hit. So, Essentially, a free Called Shot to the Punch Chart, with a decent guarantee that 8-10 LBX pellets will be hitting.
Between the crits from the SRM-6 Packs, and the buckshot to the face, the Posideon made 3 Pilot consciousness checks that first turn, for all three pilots. Everyone decided, eventually, that it was nap time. Three Legs isn't as good as four, and boom goes the Posideon, inflicting a 4th pilot hit to the pilots. Sleep Well, Republic Freebirths. 10 to wake was more than the pilots could muster.
I can't repeat here what my OpFor player called me after that :D
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Tandem Charge? I did think the Clans used those!
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I am pretty sure that by 3150, everyone uses everything they can get their hands on. And given that the Wolf Empire has consumed large swaths of Lyran, Free Worlds, and Republic Territories, including Solaris VII, and they have Clan Sea Fox supplying them, I do not think there are many technologies they do not have any access to.
That said, my non-canon galaxy HAS fought several trials of grievance against hardliners in the clan who feel we are too liberal with our use of special munitions.
Regardless the technique described relies more on the LBXes and the SRMs just synergize well with it.
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For me, the Wolf Empire can get almost anything, but it depends if they want to use them.
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It was a brutal fight (that unfortunately had no lava and the external heat is somewhere else in latest versions) . . . and yeah, it turned when the Shrike taking point ate one too many Gauss slugs . . . LA gone, LT gone, RT down to 4 IS, CT armor gone, partial wing damaged, and spikes to 41 heat- shuts down but avoid the ammo explosion . . . which causes Star Captain Jessica Helmer to fall. The Sentinel jammed its Ultra which forced it to close- the Hadurs did well with 0 turn A4, causing splash as long as they lasted. The Saladin got in 4 hits- two on a downed Sojourner (#4), and a shot into each legs on another one it ran up on before that same Sojourner (#2) kicked in the side. The Jade Hawk took a ERLL to the head as well as gauss to the arms that nearly took them off and fell after that damage. Lightning and Hadur (Gauss & Plasma FR) also died among the vehicles as the Falcons started to retreat.
The Wolves had moderate damage on two Sojourners with another pair almost untouched . . . the one that fell managed to take the brunt of attacks from the Stormcrow A, Shrike, Gyrfalcon, ATMs from the Jade Hawk, Zibbler's HPPC, and Saladin double tap. Gauss Rifle blew up (2 pilot hits), took a knock to the noggin, and fell . . . in a sign of vindictiveness, the Falcon mechs poured all their fire on the fallen (and sleeping) Wolf mechwarrior while the vehicles tried to screen and separate the remaining Sojourners. The Sojourner kept taking damage until the engine was totally destroyed before the last ATMs blew the scraps across the desert landscape (it had 1 IS left in the CT).
The Sentinel took a Gauss slug to the RT that capitalized on previous damage, punching through to smash SSRM rounds which blew the medium mech apart. Star Captain Jessica Helmer's Shrike too another Gauss slug . . . to the CT which damaged the gyro, the assault mech fell which broke the remains of the chassis into two slagged parts with the heat of plasma blasts to the remains causing heat ripples in the air. The Jade Hawk fell once again after taking a pair of Gauss slugs to the torso. The Star Commander who was in charge of the ad hoc force after Helmer fell followed his commander, the Stormcrow A took another hit to the leg, the Gauss slug crushing the hip actuator before lodging in the upper leg musculature. A second badly damaged Sojourner (#2) finished off the left torso which would cause heat problems a Plasma Cannon strike exacerbated with a fall. While badly overheated (+21) the Falcon omni avoided shut down or any ammo explosions before the mechwarrior abandoned his machine.
The Falcons retreated from the battle with the Gyrfalcon and a half dozen vehicles to them with a Lightning that was trailing picked off as they ran.
Conclusions-
So . . . they are pretty tough, the one that went down was b/c its gauss rifle blew and it took a LOT of fire. Still lasted through the next turn as the Bot hit it with everything it could and the damaged chassis absorbed most of it.
A Star of Primes is pretty powerful, but with each having a 15 & 10 point hit, you need a A with the RAC/2 or C's LRM20s for crit seeking on the holes that get opened.
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Regarding spoilers from Shrapnel's "War and Rumors" Story.
What do you all think about the "OPERATION APPLESEED" reveal? Certainly changes most of Anastasia's Kerensky's actions in the Dark Age from bumbling idiot to Batman/Xanatos-Gambit level planning. I'm not sure I like it, but it does seem to have textual support from Wolf Hunters. I never understood before why Clan Warriors who left Kerensky would then willingly join other merc commands and do the whole cross-training thing.
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It is also supported in that Yulri, who she took as a bondsmen and returned to warrior status, was one of those who were cast out. You also have to factor in that she got rid of some dead weight, because we have the whole bit with Xera who went merc after trying to be the 'real Steel Wolves' with mechwarrior commander that was shown to be a arse.
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It's been hinted that she's Phelan's daughter....and Morgan Kell's granddaughter if that's true. That would be very similar to what Morgan Kell did after Mallory's World. Granted her "Deny this person nothing" moment wasn't as awesome as Morgan's was.
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Yeah, it was hint/speculation that Anastasia was a mix of Natasha & Phelan's genes- heck even if she was a mix of Ranna & Phelan again, she would still be Natasha's descendant (great-grand) but the blood tie was supposed to be closer by rumors.
I never thought of the Exarch's note linking to Kell (recent Kell Hounds story had the best 'deny' moment IMO), but yeah sending Steel Wolves out to 'grow' her future forces is a link to a Kell background . . . and IMO the only reason a Clan warrior would know of that degree of planning was if they had a personal interest- like a ancestor.
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Operation Appleseed also mirrors in some ways the Wolf's Dragoons' approach to preparing the IS for the coming of the Clans. The cross-training aspect also seems to resemble some aspects of the Fidelis. It could be that the Steel Wolves faced the Fidelis on Terra, and Anastasia was impressed enough to incorporate what she could find out about Fidelis methods into her own plans.
The trajectory of Anastasia's life does mirror both Natasha's and Phelan's lives. Exiled after not fitting in, she goes out into the Inner Sphere as a mercenary to make a name for herself, she is eventually captured by Clan Wolf and made a Bondsman until she earns her place as a Warrior, and finding a home in Clan Wolf, she eventually becomes saKhan of Clan Wolf. I am partial to the theory that she's born of Natasha's and Focht's genes, though if she were the genedaughter of Phelan and Ranna I could get behind that. It would be kind of ironic if Victor and Focht's children teamed up like their fathers only to gain victory for the Clans rather than defeat them.
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My money's on Tassa K. being a direct descendant of Natasha Kerensky. It just fits.
But anything can happen.
I just hope the Wolves can keep the Falcons from being a scourge to Terra as they have been to other worlds.
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It all depends on what Alaric and Anastasia have planned to counter Malvina's Warships and nukes. Alaric's plan on Tharkad was to not fight her at all, while keeping her away from the main continent. His plan on Hesperus seems to have been to fight her to a draw/not put her in a position where she felt nukes were her best option, and even that only worked because Beckett Malthus intervened with his assassination attempt. Neither of those plans is ideal in the case of Terra, though Alaric might try putting her in a position where someone in her ranks successfully finishes what Beckett Malthus started, which might be part of the role Noritomo Helmer is supposed to play. At least in terms of getting into contact with those Falcons who oppose Malvina and delivering a possible offer to them on behalf of Alaric.
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I am... less than enthusiastic about certain aspects of Appleseed.
Seeding Warriors into mercenary units to seek out converts and harvest warriors is a fine goal, but the tactics demonstrated lean a bit too much towards strongarming the rest of the mercenary unit into being bondsmen. And what good even does that do, you don't put a bondsman in a cockpit... That it turns out okay for the Juggernauts does not put me at ease for the rest of the commands involved.
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My money's on Tassa K. being a direct descendant of Natasha Kerensky. It just fits.
Its been pretty clear that Tassa K IS Natasha Kerensky gen-daughter/descendant. She revealed that in one the old Dark Age Novels (Flight of the Falcon I think), when she pointed out she wore the red Hour-Glass, stating she was honoring her. She refused answer who her other gene-parent was. It was like she was embarrassed or it was dark secret.
Regarding spoilers from Shrapnel's "War and Rumors" Story.
What do you all think about the "OPERATION APPLESEED" reveal? Certainly changes most of Anastasia's Kerensky's actions in the Dark Age from bumbling idiot to Batman/Xanatos-Gambit level planning. I'm not sure I like it, but it does seem to have textual support from Wolf Hunters.
Thing is that Anastasia been bounced around at least to four authors to write. I had complaints when the Dark Age novels revisited Anastasia. To way they were writing her character, her personality kept CHANGING and authors were not sticking with what she was suppose to be like from the previous story. [my opinion]
Lorne Coleman (1st author to handle her), Michael Stackpole, and Kevin Killany handled her the best keep her sharp and not too zany.
Kevin's handling in Wolf Hunters novel was properly the best since the first. Where she split off the Steel Wolves not unlike Morgan Kell, see how well they could do despite not being sure what would happen until after things calmed down. Shatter Fortress showed the Hunters being pulled into the Clan Wolf by now saKhan Anastasia Kerensky. She was likely going for the rest of them, since you saw something about that in the Shrapnel magazine story.
I like how she was first portrayed in the Call to Arms, when she was disguising her identity.
How she will be handled next, heavens only knows.
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More authors than that I think-
Coleman- introduction on Achernar
Proving Grounds trilogy- near character assassination/wreck
Victor Milan/Flight of the Falcon- got first shot at recovery since Anastasia landed at Skye to fight the Falcons- 2 scenes IIRC
Coleman/Blood of the Isle- Skye Rnd 2, Sarna says but I am not sure and I do not have this one digital
Killany/Wolf Hunters
Stackpole/Masters of War- She captures and breaks Alaric
Mohan/Bonfire of Worlds
A plot hole with Anastasia's 'plan' is that the rest of the Wolf Hunter novel has her facing off some bitter Steel Wolves and then later we see ones like Verena who were also cast off without reason.
Hmm, Sarna says the Havoc P5 is mentioned in Wolf Hunters, now I am going to have to find the box that novel is located in to see if it gets any more details.
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Yeah, with regard to Anastasia's characterization, the best that can be said about her earlier characterization was that she was extremely impatient and doing whatever it took to get to her goal immediately, even if long-term it was self-destructive (Taking the Steel Wolves from Radick and launching them onto two extremely self-destructive campaigns to get to Terra, abandoning their holdings wholesale). That's how I'd like to write it at least in my planned fan fiction-rewrite of the Proving Grounds trilogy (But shortened to 45 chapters because that story did not need to be 3 novels).
Era Report 3145 I believe got a dig on the constant characterization jumping she was doing too.
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I also forgot to mention, the medico she . . . (heck, are they friends or what? I mean he could have gotten free of her plenty of times over the years) . . has around in later novels was, IIRC, puzzled by her behavior at times in public. She once or twice acted weaker or nuts to the other Steel Wolves/others to provide misdirection when critically injured or vulnerable.
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Per Shattered Fortress the Wolves requested around May 3148 for the Lyrans to take over garrison of two worlds reclaimed from the Falcons by the 1st Wolf Strike Grenadiers & Wolfspider Keshik. Apparently the 1st Strike Grenadiers were in such a state that they refit a whole star with Sojourners . . . though in the mech's fluff it also talked about older reassigned warriors from other castes testing back to be warriors- specifically the case of then 61 year old Cornelius.
Over the next several weeks, other Warden Wolf forces packed up and left their garrison placements . . . and while we do not have a list of Warden Wolf strength, we do not the 1st Legion was wiped out covering the Arc Royal withdraw on the ground. Assuming the Golden Keshik survived since it was only Patrik and his point that was said to be wiped out, the Wardens also have . . . Wolfspider Keshik and 1st Strike Grenadiers in good shape . . . Bronze pretty beat on . . . someone had to be guarding Donegal . . . and by the phrasing of the withdraw at least one other formation though likely more the way it was described- like Donegal +3? So consider it still 3 galaxies but most the units very understrength for the losses of the last 10 years- and the sibkos slaughtered hurt too. So effectively a single galaxy, maybe 1.5 with the re-assignment of lower caste former warriors and early sibko graduates. AFAIK we do not know the status of- 4th Wolf Guards, 13th Wolf Guards, 6th Wolf Guards (former Jag cluster), 2nd Strike Grenadiers, 2nd Wolf Legion, or the 4 garrison clusters from Omega. Arc Royal was defended by 2 other clusters than the 1st Wolf Legion, perhaps the Golden Keshik & Wolf Spider Keshik since both Khan & saKhan were on planet . . . though Keshiks do not match the full strength of a cluster usually they might in this case. Which leaves the Omega garrison clusters elsewhere like Donegal protecting the Lineback & other Omni lines on that planet. Or the garrison clusters were broken up during the constant Falcon attacks as replacements for the frontline clusters- 4th Wolf Guards, 1st Wolf Legion (destroyed), 1st Wolf Strike Grenadiers, 6th Wolf Guards, 13th Wolf Guards, 2nd Wolf Legion, 2nd Wolf Strike Grenadiers and 16th Wolf Guards Cluster.
This is around 6 months after the date on Calamity Kell's call for any Hounds to meet her Where It All Began that was sent out from the JFOZ by any HPG broadcasts. Which was in the same blurb about mystery raiders in the JFOZ- who were not Wolves. Her battalion got wore down but never linked up with the remains of Hounds military on Arc Royal or any of the other mercs who evac'd from the Falcon onslaught. If the Warden Wolves went to meet the Kell Hounds and Anastasia went to convince them to join up in a Dragoon's style deal . . . she might bring a overstrength galaxy (5+ clusters of Wardens, 1 BN/Cluster of Kell Hounds) to join what Alaric has on Terra. But would they get there in time with the way the Dragoon story ended?
Anastasia leaves New Earth in November 3150 while Marotta wraps up his mission with the Dragoons in mid December. The Dragoons were re-deploying with what they could get together during that time but some detachments further out were going to miss it . . . like maybe a Striker battalion or two that had been towards New Avalon. The Dragoons were going to fall in as their own galaxy- Gamma Regiment, Striker battalion (maybe 2), parts of Alpha and a Beta battalion. So the Dragoon Galaxy- Alpha Rgt Keshik and 5 cluster/battalions?
IF Anastasia, who was angry/unhappy in the Divided section we see her, was going after the Warden Wolves and Kell Hounds . . .
One thing I would note- under previous powers it seemed the Warden Wolves were going to follow the Nova Cats into the long night. Shattered Fortress and the Rec Guides are giving them a brighter future- in fact, its the Sojourner that caused me to look at it differently.
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According to FM3145 The WiE had 9 Clusters organized into 3 Galaxies. FM3145 unfortunately makes no mention of the 4th, 6th, or 16th Wolf Guards; and counts the 3 Keshiks as Clusters. Unless the WiE were able to rebuild those Clusters unmentioned in FM3145 by the fall of Arc Royal, it's likely that the 3 Keshiks and 6 Clusters are all the WiE had as of Arc Royal's fall. With the loss of the 1st Wolf Legion on Arc Royal it seems the WiE are probably down to 3 Keshiks and 5 Clusters, all at least somewhat understrength. So after what rebuilding they were able to do on Donegal by 3148 they probably have about a Galaxy and a half in total strength. Below are the WiE forces and their locations according to FM3145.
ALPHA GALAXY on Arc Royal
Golden Keshik
1st Wolf Legion Cluster
1st Wolf Strike Grenadiers Cluster
BETA GALAXY
Wolf Spider Keshik on Grunwald
13th Wolf Guards Cluster on Grunwald
2nd Wolf Legion Cluster on New Exford
OMEGA GALAXY
Bronze Keshik on Lyndon
1st Wolf Guardians Cluster on Garrison
3rd Wolf Guardians Cluster on Surcin
Depending on "Where it all began" means determines just how hard it would be for the WiE and Kell Hounds to reach Terra in time. Though considering its a place Callandre Kell expected Julian Davion to be able to reach it might be closer to Terra than we think. It might even BE Terra, because if we really get down to it Terra IS the place where everything began for humanity. It could also be Galatea (where the Kell Hounds got their start), Tharkad (where Callandre and Julian first met), or extremely unlikely The Rock (where the Kell Hounds first encountered the Clans)
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Those were the functional ones after the continuous pounding against the Falcons . . . but 3145 had no garrison on Donegal either and new material implies one. I was suggesting the Guardians clusters were being used to replace losses in the frontline clusters. Its unfortunate that the 4th and 16th Guards are not listed because those were original Wolf clusters back to the founding. The 4th Wolf Guards were the tip of the spear under Phelan, because they were Ranna's cluster . . . so if that had still been the case, I could have seen them being worn away to nearly nothing.
Its not going to be Galatea, that was just the formation . . .
I support the idea its wherever out in the periphery Morgan, Patrick, Arthur, and Katrina fled and found the black boxes. Easiest for Calamity to get to . . . and really, no telling what else might have been on that world . . . or what Morgan, Dan, Caitlin, Maria Allard, or Evan placed there for emergencies. Question really is . . . did the Warden Wolves leave the Linebacker & Sojourner lines behind?
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While their full demise within the Exiles is not detailed, the Wolf Empire did spin up the 4th Wolf Guards Cluster using the core of a WiE Binary they captured. So it stands to reason they probably were ground into nothing within the Exiles and that captured Binary lives on in the Wolf Empire Alpha Galaxy.
The 1st Wolf Legion also sold itself to hold the Falcons at bay while everyone else evacuated Wolf City during the fall of Arc-Royal. They are clearly part of the 3148 offensive into the Falcon OZ so they are brought back up to some strength by then.
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While their full demise within the Exiles is not detailed, the Wolf Empire did spin up the 4th Wolf Guards Cluster using the core of a WiE Binary they captured. So it stands to reason they probably were ground into nothing within the Exiles and that captured Binary lives on in the Wolf Empire Alpha Galaxy.
The 1st Wolf Legion also sold itself to hold the Falcons at bay while everyone else evacuated Wolf City during the fall of Arc-Royal. They are clearly part of the 3148 offensive into the Falcon OZ so they are brought back up to some strength by then.
Unfortunately that is probably covering Stackpoles just using the same cluster numbers from the invasion. The 1st Strike Grenadiers were the offensive into the OZ in '47 BEFORE they left the Lyran worlds.
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Looks like you are correct. Just reread that part of Shattered Fortress.
Might need to write the 1st Wolf Legion off.
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Yeah . . . the Wardens never called them selves 'in exile' they were just Wolf Clan, AND they had the most remains of the SLDF and Guard clusters . . . never made sense for them to lose those unit histories in FMWC- militaries just do not do that, and the Clans were no exception otherwise they would not have had SLDF clusters.
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Being slightly jaded, i don't think entire IlClan "Empire" will be called the Star League to be honest. If anything only in name as whole, no trappings of old vestige of SLDF. Clans aren't anything about "Defense" in their armies. :D
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Interestingly the Wolf Empire has two Clusters under the name 4th Wolf Guards. They have the 4th Wolf Guards Cluster in Alpha Galaxy and the 4th Wolf Guards Assault Cluster in Zeta Galaxy. I think the 4th Wolf Guards Assault Cluster is the one built from the captured WiE Binary, and the 4th Wolf Guards Cluster is the 4th Wolf Striker Cluster, who between 3085 and 3145 earned the right to wear the Guards designation.
I always figured and some of the naming in the various sourcebooks seems to back this up, that the Wolves used the Guards designation similar to how the Soviet/Russian military use the Guards designation to note a unit that has distinguished itself in battle and earned greater distinction and favor as a result.
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No, 4th Wolf Guards is the cluster Ranna led and was part of Phelan's galaxy before the Refusal War. It got tagged with 'Assault' a few times- FASA fact checking- but none of the members were with Vlad.
Like I said, when they let Stackpole do . . . I think it was Masters of War? He threw out the old Wolf clusters he was familiar with . . . 4th Wolf Guards, 328th, 341st & 352nd Assault Cluster, and I think the 279th Cluster . . . the latter 3 were all Star League legacy clusters. They were part of Natasha's force and escaped off Wotan to rejoin Phelan. Vlad never used those cluster numbers when he reformed the Crusader Touman, probably for very good political reasons, but Stackpole threw them out so TPTB had to put them back in the Crusader line up. For the same sort of Clan political reasons (and just how militaries operate) Phelan should never have abandoned the 328th, 341st, 352nd, and 279th designations instead of creating 1st & 2nd Legion, 1st & 2nd Strike Grenadiers when he was reforming the Warden touman after Morges and with Wotan survivors.
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I am aware of the 4th Wolf Guards history and that it ended up with the Wardens after the Refusal War split, and that it was Ranna's Cluster up until her death in the Jihad. I was just stating what the sources say about the Wolf Empire having two 4th Wolf Guards Clusters in FM3145. Though I do admit that my explanation for possibly why there were two 4th Wolf Guards Clusters in the Wolf Empire Touman was wrong.
FM3145 specifically lists the Wolf Empire having a 4th Wolf Guards Cluster under Alpha Galaxy and a 4th Wolf Guards Assault Cluster under Zeta Galaxy. Era Report 3145 has a section about Alpha Galaxy's 4th Wolf Guards Cluster that describes their origin as being formed from a captured WiE Binary and a bunch of just graduated Warriors by Khan Elsa Ward in 3099. Then when Zeta Galaxy was formed the 4th Wolf Guards Assault Cluster was apparently created for that formation. That history could have been created due to various authors not tracking the unit histories correctly as you surmise, but it doesn't explain why Zeta Galaxy has a 4th Wolf Guards Assault Cluster, or where it came from.
With the Wolves already established as having the 4th Striker Cluster in Alpha Galaxy in both Falcon and Wolf and FM3085 a simpler explanation of the 4th Wolf Guards showing up in Alpha Galaxy during the Dark Ages would have been that the 4th Wolf Striker was reflagged as the 4th Wolf Guards or even 4th Wolf Guards Striker Cluster just as the 3rd and 13th Battle Clusters were redesignated as the 3rd and 13th Wolf Guards Battle Clusters. Then the origins of the 4th Wolf Guards Assault Cluster in Zeta Galaxy could be explained as being formed from Warriors just out of training with a core of captured or defected WiE Warriors, especially since that would make sense considering the origins of the rest of Zeta Galaxy, at least the brand new Warriors part. But that's just how I would have handled it, or not even have put a 4th Wolf Guards Assault Cluster in Zeta Galaxy.
I happen to like the designation of the Wolf Guard Clusters with a role name. Especially since even from WCSB each of the 3 original Wolf Guard Clusters could be pegged as each having a different role. The 4th Guards was obviously an Assault Cluster, and the 11th Guards was definitely a Striker Cluster, while the 13th Guards would fit comfortably into the Battle Cluster role.
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Being slightly jaded, i don't think entire IlClan "Empire" will be called the Star League to be honest. If anything only in name as whole, no trappings of old vestige of SLDF. Clans aren't anything about "Defense" in their armies. :D
Their long stated purpose has been to reform the star league though.
the original SLDF was kindof tongue-in-cheek about the defense themselves, but hey, I welcome our new SLOF if it comes to that.
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Their long stated purpose has been to reform the star league though.
the original SLDF was kindof tongue-in-cheek about the defense themselves, but hey, I welcome our new SLOF if it comes to that.
Star league offensive force brought to you by Mr. Sparkle!!!
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people of the inner sphere unite or i'll shoot!
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people of the inner sphere unite or i'll shoot!
My favorite battle cry since 1st succession war.
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people of the inner sphere unite or i'll shoot!
Mmmh, that's funny and all, but it's probably more like...
"People of the Inner Sphere, Join Our Star League and we will shoot your neighbors. Until/unless they agree to join, and then both of you can resolve your differences through civilized trials"
But that's not good for a laugh :p
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My favorite battle cry since 1st succession war.
It's probably been the favorite battle cry of the Inner Sphere since the Age of War.
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Mmmh, that's funny and all, but it's probably more like...
"People of the Inner Sphere, Join Our Star League and we will shoot your neighbors. Until/unless they agree to join, and then both of you can resolve your differences through civilized trials"
But that's not good for a laugh :p
this is why clan standup never caught on
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Thinking of a 3145 Warden Wolf Rogue Star . . . Pack Hunter 3, Solitaire (improved HLL replacement), Spirit, Mongrel T2 (hate the retractable blade), Incubus. Rolled up random, they all ended up 2/4 except the Incubus which was 3/4, BV a bit over 12k for the star.
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Wasn't there like two 4th Wolf Guard units to begin with? Because they belong to opposing Clan Wolves? Sort of them trying Claiming the heritage of the past?
When i was helping on Sarna. I noticed there were duplication in names (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Category:Clan_Wolf_Commands), in the source book it was same thing. It's older problem than current Field Manuals suggest. If you type in name of a command in the search bar on Sarna you will see in brackets editors that editors noted which faction they belong to. 4th Wolf Guard (Clan Wolf), 4th Wolf Guard (Wolf in Exile) among the search results.
Some of the WiE commands were renamed, but not the 4th Wolf Guards.
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So . . .
4th Wolf Guards (Cyclops Cluster) were in WCSB under Alpha Galaxy, CO was Star Colonel Jera Carns. Delta has a 4th Wolf Striker (Red Death), its the one commanded by a Scorpion abthaka and I always confuse it for the 37th b/c they are in the same galaxy. We get 4th Wolf Guards Assault as a F&W or maybe Objective Raids creation- no previous mention. In fiction for the Refusal War, its just the 4th Wolf Guards commanded by Star Colonel Ranna of the Kerenskys. Post-Refusal War we get the two sides rebuilding in FMCC & WC, Vlad only uses a few previous clusters (while also misplacing half the touman) which for the most part are mentioned in the end of F&W IIRC (forgot to get that one digital!) like 103rd Striker or something. It makes sense for Vlad, because he had to put some distance between him and the Invasion Wolves who stood with Ulric while very likely having very little of the troops who had accompanied Natasha to Wotan.
Phelan (for some reason) also abandons most of the legacy clusters and any that came with them. The only ones Phelan keeps is the 4th & 16th Wolf Guards along with re-using the Keshik names (Golden & Bronze) . . . he abandoned all the Invasion Wolf clusters when he should have reformed them instead of creating new clusters because he was insisting they were the continuation of the Invasion Wolves. Unlike Vlad, he had most of the surviving leadership of the 279th, 328th, 341st, 352nd, and IIRC the 37th Striker.
I have not looked at FMU in a while, but even by 3067 Vlad has not reconstituted the Invasion legacy clusters. The first IRL mention of them after that is in Masters of War where Stackpole trots back out his favorite numbers without seeming to know or care they were gone. We get mention of them being elite and frontline, but nothing in the novel explains how the Crusaders reconstituted them . . . which gets really interesting considering even as 3132/33 rolled around the Clans as a whole had not recovered to pre-Jihad strength levels b/c they accepted Stone's down-size. So now Catalyst PTB get handed a reference to the old Invasion clusters and must come up with why the Crusaders re-constituted clusters that were tarnished with the genocide taint . . . though Wars of Reaving make that easier, no GC to care.
Also, the Guards designation is supposed to supersede Regulars/Assault/Striker/Battle whatever- its a unit award for a cluster that did something outstanding or critical for the Clan as a whole. I cannot remember if we ever actually were told if the 4th was a Assault, Striker, etc but it replaced that and I think had existed for a while- supposed to be one of the prestigious commands right up with the SLDF legacy clusters. We get the 13th Wolf Guards, but they get the moniker- with a bit of handwaving- from Natasha's role in the Dragoons and testing back out as a Star Colonel. So by what it means to be 'Guards' the 'Assault' designator should have been lost . . . but when TPTB were needing cluster names, they dusted off the old source to restore one who colors (supposedly) were cased since the Refusal War reshuffling.
Though it is interesting to note, outside of Phelan, Ranna, Marco Hall, or Omega's CO not a single Star Colonel or higher from the Refusal War seems to survive. Apparently the Galaxy Commander and Star Colonels in the Homeworlds all fell in the shower during the Refusal War too. Statistically very unlikely, IMO it had to be done for Vlad to assume leadership- if everyone who is left is a Star Captain, then having a Star Captain become Khan will not raise waves. While I like the story of the Refusal War, its one of the biggest examples of FASA failure in fact checking and sloppiness.
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Looks like the Wolf Empire might needs to be using abstracted units at this time.
TT
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Question: What second line disgraced Galaxy Commander back in the Home Worlds is going to gainsay the man who just freed the clan from a fate worse than annihilation?
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Because whoever is left in the Home Worlds is not going to be disgraced. If you look at who Vlad left in the Home Worlds, he left a arse kicker to look after Wolf interests. Further, its likely the Wolves left frontline clusters in the Home Worlds during the Invasion.
But the point was- there should not have been a break down of communication that left a Star Captain as the most senior member of the Clan left. Even if you swallow no Star Colonel survived on Wotan, you still had the Red Keshik's Galaxy Commander John Ward (Delta Galaxy Command), Delta's 4th cluster, Epsilon Galaxy- Green Keshik (Galaxy Commander Anton Fetladral), Star Colonel Jewel (Choyer), Star Colonel Sanal (Dorbeng), Star Colonel Jersano (Gurbeng), Star Colonel Evon (Nega)- who had ristars or oldsters as officers (Evon becomes Evon Ward?), plus other clusters like the 24th Rangers Cluster (frontline, Obj Raids), 9th Wolf Guards (frontline, Pouncer fluff), and whatever Lajos was assigned (last BoK book). Further you have the rest of the secondline & garrison galaxies besides Tau, Epsilon, and Omega- who never saw action in the Refusal War.
Command on Wotan should not have broken down- the odds of all Star Colonels dying at once while in combat is laughable. None of the Tau (6), Delta (2), or Gamma (2 + Bronze Keshik) officers survived to maintain command. The only Star Colonel we know that survived on Wotan was Star Colonel Marco Hall, who retreated off planet with the remains of the clusters of Natasha's spearhead (3rd Battle, 13th, 341st, 352nd) along with some who were in Ulric's spearhead (Bronze Keshik, 37th, 11th Guards, plus individuals). Some like the 11th Battle ended up Wardens trapped on Wotan, who were bled out by Vlad. In the Clans, the next warrior is always ready to leap into the still warm shoes of a superior officer.
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It definitely seems like the writers missed an opportunity to have Vlad as at least a Star Colonel filling the shoes of Garth Radick and Conal Ward as the head of the Crusader movement among the Wolves, or since he wasn't Bloodnamed yet, the power behind the throne for whatever Bloodnamed Warrior was the face of the Wolves' Crusaders. That would have made his rise to Khan a bit more believable, and Vlad could very well have been given command of one of Tau Galaxy's Clusters in order to better set up his rise to Khan in the aftermath of the Refusal War.
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Star Captains and even Star Commanders have jumped to being the Khan, so his doing that makes sense . . . it just goes back to the writers & FASA at the time dumped 2/3 of the Clan in a black hole and of the remaining third gave Phelan a quarter of that . . . outside of warships- that was a pretty even firepower split, though Vlad got the flagship for some reason.
Anyway, Vlad is not as much the stretch- he was a political character and magnet for Crusaders who believed he was held back by Ulric/Natasha/Phelan (and somewhat true). Vlad has a version of the hero's journey myth . . . its Marialle being saKhan rather than one of the surviving Galaxy Commanders or Star Colonels who sat in the OZ or Home Worlds . . . or even Dalk Carns, the Loremaster of the time who probably died offscreen but is not confirmed.
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Encouraging that we can add the Adder to the list of what CWX is producing on Donegal, with the Jaguar, Linebacker and the Soujourner.
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The question is, did the Wardens take everything when they left?
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I think the question goes deeper than that.
Last I had looked, I thought the Exile Adder line took a Blakist plane to the face and went offline along with their Timber Wolf production. Or was that the Ice Ferret that took the crash?
Point being, I didn't know there was something to take. Given the phrasing in the RG, I think, the Linebacker and the Adder, and whatever else they're building ontop of the Jaguar, is fresh production.
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I think the question goes deeper than that.
Last I had looked, I thought the Exile Adder line took a Blakist plane to the face and went offline along with their Timber Wolf production. Or was that the Ice Ferret that took the crash?
Point being, I didn't know there was something to take. Given the phrasing in the RG, I think, the Linebacker and the Adder, and whatever else they're building ontop of the Jaguar, is fresh production.
It was both. By the end of the Jihad, the Exiles had no Omni production at all
It does seem that the Linebacker and Puma lines are new as of their retreat to Donegal.
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The question is, did the Wardens take everything when they left?
What I wonder is how they took things with them without anyone noticing.
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It was both. By the end of the Jihad, the Exiles had no Omni production at all
Well, they reestablished the Arctic Wolf II pretty quick, didn't they?
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Well, they reestablished the Arctic Wolf II pretty quick, didn't they?
The Arctic Wolf II was developed during the Jihad, but didn't enter production until 3085. Even then they needed Lyran help to get the line up and running
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I think the question goes deeper than that.
Last I had looked, I thought the Exile Adder line took a Blakist plane to the face and went offline along with their Timber Wolf production. Or was that the Ice Ferret that took the crash?
Point being, I didn't know there was something to take. Given the phrasing in the RG, I think, the Linebacker and the Adder, and whatever else they're building ontop of the Jaguar, is fresh production.
No, what I meant was when they left Donegal in . . . '48 or '49 without warning, did they pack up their lines.
As for what they produced at the Wolf Sites on Arc Royal before/during the Jihad . . . the seed of their factories is what they got in the Leviathan from the Bears. Arctic Wolf or Pack Hunter fluff, forget which makes no distinction between a production line's ability to make Omnis vs Stds- just that bugs in the automation would be magnified with Omnis it seems.
They may have needed the Lyrans help getting replacement machinery from the SharkFoxes, or sourcing what could be generic enough to work producing Clan spec parts.
The biggest loss when the Falcons sacked Arc Royal would have been the Lupus Majoris . . . IF it was still there . . . Donegal would have needed a source of Clan Endosteel to produce most of the mechs as well as provided parts for the Warden's inventory.
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It'll be a shame when SteveRestless has a heart attack on Friday and no longer posts in this thread....
;)
Your attempt on my life has not gone unnoticed ;) However, it takes more than that to end me :D
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Clanners have two hearts. Huzzah!
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The Crusaders are also building a Wasp C and ordered a change of a run of Threshers that created the Thresher II from the Foxes.
Savannah- a world taken from the reforming League- produces Clan spec Endo-Steel per the Awesome's fluff.
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The Crusaders are also building a Wasp C and ordered a change of a run of Threshers that created the Thresher II from the Foxes.
Savannah- a world taken from the reforming League- produces Clan spec Endo-Steel per the Awesome's fluff.
Don't forget that the Woodsman is back.
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Also that the Empire is producing the Goth on Stewart, using old Gotha lines as a basis.
In iRCG:4 news, the Exiles have apparently been producing Ice Ferrets for a bit now too. Glad to see that back in the mix. Really REALLY digging the reversal of the old "KILL EM ALL" attitude in favor of "Kickstart Em All!" :D Almost wish I had pledged Khan level.
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Don't forget that the Woodsman is back.
I do not have Golden Century yet, going to order the combo when I get home. Savannah could be producing it since it was linked to Awesome production, and with both being assault class. Steve, I do wonder if the F & K are Crusader configs as a result of Alaric's trying to avoid Tukayyid 2.0.
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Steve, I do wonder if the F & K are Crusader configs as a result of Alaric's trying to avoid Tukayyid 2.0.
I'd include the J in that too. Yes, it has ammo-based weapons, but really, the HMGs are an afterthought next to that blistering double brace of ERSLs.
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I'd include the J in that too. Yes, it has ammo-based weapons, but really, the HMGs are an afterthought next to that blistering double brace of ERSLs.
I was looking at the J as the replacement (especially for the ERSL crowd) of the Phantom H.
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I wouldn't count the phantom out and in need of replacement just yet. For all we know, those are going to be reborn in one of the 18 remaining RecGuides too.
Would love that, would love to see them available as a partner to Wulfens. Few enough things move fast enough to pair up with that beastie, and I'm disappointed in the Dasher II.
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I do not expect a new Phantom, unlike the Linebacker it did not get new art?
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... Hm. No, I guess it didn't. Linebacker tricked me. sneaky thing.
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I'd include the J in that too. Yes, it has ammo-based weapons, but really, the HMGs are an afterthought next to that blistering double brace of ERSLs.
I would add the T as well. No, the iHLL doesn't have the range of the others, but the supercharger lets it hit 16 hexes of movement and a possible +5 defensive modifier will make stopping it tricky.
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It was daring of the WiE blow up their own factories. I guess when your in all-out-war, you do things like that.
Was that case with Ark Royal's non-Clan factories?
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Well, key parts of the Ice Ferret line were loaded on the dropship while solahma and techs used a binary of the Omnis to keep the Falcons away. The survivors then turned their weapons on what remained and slagged the place.
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Right now the warriors of the LCAF feel like Roman legionnaires when facing Hunnic composite bows. That is to say that they can win some pertinent battles at cost, but they simply cannot stop the momentum. Now that the Fortress has opened, they have had much pressure removed. The Falcon rivalry with the Wolves may push the Falcons to foolishness, which the LCAF and its allies could exploit. Having success against Clan Wolf would prove difficult without a powerful ally, or the Wolves simply withdrawing (Which is surprisingly plausible).
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The Falcons launched a headhunter raid on Alshain . . . Malvina should not have enough forces to worry about being a 'horde'- she fights all her neighbors and does not try to preserve her troops.
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The Falcons launched a headhunter raid on Alshain . . . Malvina should not have enough forces to worry about being a 'horde'- she fights all her neighbors and does not try to preserve her troops.
I’ll be glad to get rid of our useless Khan, and glad to see the falcons get annihilated as well. Although that, combined with a general lack of ghost bear stuff in anything new might signal our end. :'(
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Malvina's murder-suicide thing was as old as it was disturbing after her unveiling. She actually wants her clan to fail, and to die in the process.
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Sure, but when you go up against a peer (or peers in her case) for years and do not care about the losses you take . . . and your peers do, then the Falcon touman should have been ground away. I mean look at her expensive operations . . .
Tharkad, Hesperus, Arc Royal, Coventry '48, Ghost Bear front/Alshain
And most important, its not against the same powers!
Tharkad, she fought the Lyrans
Hesperus, some Lyrans w/mostly Mercs- then the Wolves land . . . then the Falcons
Arc Royal, mercs, Kell Hounds, & Warden Wolves
Coventry '48, Lyrans
Ghost Bears- GHOST BEARS! I assume this has to do with where they were battling the Bears & Horses for the Wolf OZ (poor lower caste)
Putting that aside- what do folks think of the Excalibur EC? It was a Wolf staple after Klondike . . . also the 'Redbacks' that the Wolves inherited from the Widowmakers.
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If you are saying that the Falcons are in a poor position to handle a strong Lyran counterattack, that might be true. The Lyrans would have to muster a strong counterattack, which would not be easy. They could, as you are suggesting, make a deal with the Bears. I am not sure such a decision would be popular with the Estates General. Success on the Falcon front would stop worlds from seceding.
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The other thing is, if the Lyrans want to break the Falcons, they will have to push to worlds like Pandora, and Sudeten. This will require breaking the salient on the way. Such an offensive would be bold, and utterly reliant on neighbors not exploiting weakened defenses. In the long run, it might be worth it in order to gain breathing room on one front, as the Bears are quiet neighbors, and the Horses tamable. Malvina is likely already pulling considerable assets towards Terra, because the Wolf/Falcon rivalry is strong, and they are preparing for a battle of epic proportions. Furthermore, she lost Skye, which was quite the symbolic loss, as the fall of Skye symbolized the rise of Malvina.
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Putting that aside- what do folks think of the Excalibur EC? It was a Wolf staple after Klondike . . . also the 'Redbacks' that the Wolves inherited from the Widowmakers.
The speed and firepower of the Excalibur EC will let it fight at medium & long range and it comes with loads of ammo. Although I just had a thought, I wonder if the Excalibur EC was the inspiration for the Woodsman B and thus the Timber Wolf B and Gargoyle B? The Excalibur EC looks like it should have fared well for the Wolves, with maybe a little more short-range firepower needed.
The Redback looks like a nasty customer and probably helped the Widowmakers. Considering how oversinked it is, I have to wonder if somewhere along the way the Clans either fought in very hot combat zones or were frequently fending off inferno SRMs. Or maybe early Clan double heat sinks weren't always 100% functional.
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Yeah, I was looking at the Excalibur mod and thinking the TW/Garg B.
Wasn't Dagda a big Wolverine holding? And typically desert? We never got Clan p-DHS afaik, so its plausible.
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Wasn't Dagda a big Wolverine holding? And typically desert? We never got Clan p-DHS afaik, so its plausible.
Circe. That's the world you're thinking of, the Wolverines fought there and it is a hot desert planet.
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The speed and firepower of the Excalibur EC will let it fight at medium & long range and it comes with loads of ammo. Although I just had a thought, I wonder if the Excalibur EC was the inspiration for the Woodsman B and thus the Timber Wolf B and Gargoyle B? The Excalibur EC looks like it should have fared well for the Wolves, with maybe a little more short-range firepower needed.
That's an interesting thought. The way I've looked at it for a while now is those configs (and now the Woodsman B as well) are decent ways to sort of emulate Kerensky's Orion variant (and the later Orion IIC). But it is cool to have another variant repeat that trend, and it certainly does make you wonder why those weapon combos were so popular in Clan Wolf.
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Well, the Woodsman B is better than the still sucky TW/Garg B . . . the ERLL & ERML are better than the LPL IMO. Still would have preferred no Artemis BUT both Woodsman & Excalibur working 'back' to the IRL originals are just more indicative of a well planned TRO.
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Guys... the title of this thread is still my best work.
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Pondering what exactly the Wolves are producing.
Per Recognition Guides and TRO 3145/3150:
Spheroid refits: there's the Goliath, Orion and Griffin Cs. Anything else?
OmniMechs: Tomahawk II, Woodsman, Warwolf, Wulfen,
Clan standard BattleMechs: Dominator, Pack Hunter
They're presumably also making use of some existing IS tech production, like Keystone had a Shockwave line apparently so they could be utilizing those but this is uncertain.
Before the Clan moved, they were producing the Lobo, Sun Cobra, Timber Wolf, Blood Reaper, Tundra Wolf, Highlander IIC, Orion IIC, Guillotine IIC, Locust IIC, per Objectives: The Clans. Questionable if any of these have been put back into production yet.
I suppose the Skinwalker merits a mention though given its experimental prototype nature, i wouldn't assume it will reach mass production. No doubt it can influence the next generation of technology, but it is not really relevant right now.
Honestly, that doesn't look too good. No wonder the Wolves are willing to buy stuff like Threshers no one cares about.
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Pondering what exactly the Wolves are producing.
Per Recognition Guides and TRO 3145/3150:
Spheroid refits: there's the Goliath, Orion and Griffin Cs. Anything else?
OmniMechs: Tomahawk II, Woodsman, Warwolf, Wulfen,
Clan standard BattleMechs: Dominator, Pack Hunter
They're presumably also making use of some existing IS tech production, like Keystone had a Shockwave line apparently so they could be utilizing those but this is uncertain.
Before the Clan moved, they were producing the Lobo, Sun Cobra, Timber Wolf, Blood Reaper, Tundra Wolf, Highlander IIC, Orion IIC, Guillotine IIC, Locust IIC, per Objectives: The Clans. Questionable if any of these have been put back into production yet.
I suppose the Skinwalker merits a mention though given its experimental prototype nature, i wouldn't assume it will reach mass production. No doubt it can influence the next generation of technology, but it is not really relevant right now.
Honestly, that doesn't look too good. No wonder the Wolves are willing to buy stuff like Threshers no one cares about.
The Guillotine IIC, Orion IIC and Highlander IIC were refits, not actual production
The TRO:Golden Century entry for the Woody describes the Wolf Empire as being "desperate" for equipment.
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The TRO:Golden Century entry for the Woody describes the Wolf Empire as being "desperate" for equipment.
In Janella Lakewood's opinion . . . the Thresher II fluff does not support that conclusion.
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You mean the part where they bought an entire production run of obsolete Heavies to be refurbished at great expense?
Cuz that kinda screams "desperate for equipment" to me.
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Obsolete and otherwise unwanted
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Sharks were searching for a buyer, the Wolves did not want to buy them in their current version, and to sell them the Foxes converted them. IF they were desperate they would have bought the Threshers as they were at the time.
The Crusader Wolves are not desperate for equipment, Alaric is trying to bulk up as much as he can- which means the demand is higher than what the Empire can supply. For the Woodsman, it could also be that Omnis are in short supply.
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So... your disagreement is in the semantics of the Wolf Empire trying to buy every 'Mech it can get its hands on? Because that's what they've been doing for four Recognition Guides now.
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There's desperate, and stupid desperate. The Draconis Combine was stupid desperate when they bought Chargers during the Succession Wars. The Wolves are desperate but don't let that cloud their thinking, realizing the Threshers would be more useful if refit first.
Though i'll admit i'm not entirely sure the Thresher II is a smart refit as it is, though it is not terrible certainly.
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The Wolves control Keystone, Stewart, and Kalidasa. If they are low on mechs, then they are burning them faster than the Falcons.
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And if they're using them as is, they're only getting IS Tech 'mechs from them. Maybe some 'mechs are better suited for what production the Wolf Empire now has. For example, it makes sense to me to replace the Orion line at Kalidasa with the Woodsman. You'd have a much quicker turn around than if you tried converting it to a Warwolf line.
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Given the populace they absorbed and converted into their Touman, Combined with a steady drive towards Terra, I would imagine the clan has an appetite for:
(A) Every Mixed-tech and Clan machine they can get their hands on to improve those absorbed forces with
and (B) as many Omnimechs as they can get to improve their frontline forces with.
I would say that it's worth waiting until after the ilClan Recognition Guides to take a full accounting of what any clan is currently producing, because the old material by previous developers seemed to be marching in one direction (fade out of some older designs) but whether it's the will of the new developers, or a message sent loud and clear by the Kickstarter about how players feel about those older designs and a desire to keep the kickstarted minis useful and common in the new era, we seem to be trending in a different direction now.
In addition to what TRO:Golden Century gives The Empire, and what we know from TROs 3145/3150, There's certainly room for more. There's room to pair what we get from GC with stuff we know that the wolves are already using, there's room for us to make use of say, the Timber Wolf, Naga, Gargoyle and Dire Wolf (man I can't wait for next Friday to see where the Timber Wolf might be produced in modern times) and there's plenty of room for Trade with the Exile Wolves as well. The Sojourner would fit nicely with some of the mechs in use with the Empire, plenty of room for buying Ice Ferrets, Adders and Coyotls.
I already love using Timber Wolf/Gargoyle/Warwolf mixes in my stars, and Tomahawk II/Tomahawk/Hauptmann/Dire Wolf mixes too. We finally have a good selection of 4/6[8]/x designs to pair together too.
Bottom Line, the clan can have a heavy appetite for hardware without that implying dire straits.
And if they're using them as is, they're only getting IS Tech 'mechs from them. Maybe some 'mechs are better suited for what production the Wolf Empire now has. For example, it makes sense to me to replace the Orion line at Kalidasa with the [Redacted] You'd have a much quicker turn around than if you tried converting it to a Warwolf line.
Already mostly covered by the 3145 TROs in a lot of ways. That Orion Line is producing Orion C's, not Warwolves or other designs per NTNU
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I think Steve's hit it with his beginning, there's 3 factors in play for the Wolves. First, they just invaded & captured a new area of space, there's lots of combat losses to replace. Second, when they moved they had to stop existing production and they weren't able to restart immediately making the first one worse. Third, with the goal and efforts so far to invade the Republic the Wolves have expanded their touman, meaning they need lots more production to fill the holes.
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Already mostly covered by the 3145 TROs in a lot of ways. That Orion Line is producing Orion C's, not Warwolves or other designs per NTNU
Just bringing up a theoretical example. I'd bet that the Perseus line was converted, personally. However, wasn't the [redacted] produced on Thermopolis?
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I am sure that I have said repeatedly the Orion C is a -2M chassis with new armor and weapons.
So... your disagreement is in the semantics of the Wolf Empire trying to buy every 'Mech it can get its hands on? Because that's what they've been doing for four Recognition Guides now.
Step away from the excited Wolf.
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Just bringing up a theoretical example. I'd bet that the Perseus line was converted, personally. However, wasn't the [redacted] produced on Thermopolis?
I believe that's what TRO:GC Said, yes. Though, you're allowed to say that word. I'm prohibited from doing so on here, hence the redaction.
As is the Warwolf, which probably took the place of that Perseus line if it lasted that long.
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And if they're using them as is, they're only getting IS Tech 'mechs from them. Maybe some 'mechs are better suited for what production the Wolf Empire now has. For example, it makes sense to me to replace the Orion line at Kalidasa with the Woodsman. You'd have a much quicker turn around than if you tried converting it to a Warwolf line.
This is League space we are talking about, if you give them the specs to make what you need, and if the necessary resources are available, the lines will be producing them before the end of the year.
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Step away from the excited Wolf.
Huh? No, its not a matter of survival so its not desperate. Alaric is trying to balloon up the numbers of clusters that can be fielded, but if he was desperate the Crusaders would not have wanted the Foxes to alter the Thesher- if they were desperate for mechs they would have taken them as they were at the time. We are also not getting garrison clusters with armed IndiMechs any longer IIRC.
To contrast, going into 3146 the Warden Wolves WERE desperate for warriors, though fluff makes it seem they might have been too desperate b/c they were not bringing back test outs or graduating sibbies early.
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I think Steve's hit it with his beginning, there's 3 factors in play for the Wolves. First, they just invaded & captured a new area of space, there's lots of combat losses to replace. Second, when they moved they had to stop existing production and they weren't able to restart immediately making the first one worse. Third, with the goal and efforts so far to invade the Republic the Wolves have expanded their touman, meaning they need lots more production to fill the holes.
They're sitting on mountains of Lyran and Free Worlds League salvage...
Terra's kind of a front line warrior fight though.
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Stewart, Kalidasa, Keystone, and Thermopolis makes 4 major Battlemech factories the Wolf Empire has access to.
I think it likely that the Wolf Empire converted the Locust line on Stewart to Locust IICs considering how common the RATs make Locust IICs in the Wolf Empire. Also, FM3145 mentions that Stewart's Locust line was the FWL's primary source of Locusts. So much so, that if the FWL couldn't regain access to that production they would have to be far more careful in employing their Locusts in the near future. If the Wolves haven't converted the Locust line on Stewart to Locust IICs, then they might be continuing to build Locust 6Ms for themselves and the FWL. We might also see a Wolf Empire Locust C in a future RecGuide.
The Wolf Empire Wasp C looks to be a move towards producing a mass-produced Mech that can trade well with opposing Mechs to equip their Spheroid recruited warriors. Sure the Wasp C is likely to die, but it's also likely going to take down more and/or bigger mechs before it does. It makes me think that the Wolf Empire is looking to expand its touman with more Spheroid recruits even beyond what FM3145 shows. Combined with RotR it makes me think that Alaric recognizes that the Republic is planning for a Tukayyid style battle of attrition and wants forces capable of fighting just such a battle, with the Republic on the losing side of any sort of calculus of attrition.
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They're sitting on mountains of Lyran and Free Worlds League salvage...
Terra's kind of a front line warrior fight though.
True, but look at what they're doing, they're upgrading those, tweaking the design specs, adding Clan weapons, etc. Even still those are going to garrison forces.
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Stewart produces the Sirocco. That is a mech that could be frightful in Clan hands. They do not perform bad in League hands.
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Stewart produces the Sirocco. That is a mech that could be frightful in Clan hands. They do not perform bad in League hands.
Seems like the Wolves are using the Goliath/Sirocco lines on Stewart to build their Goliath Cs.
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Seems like the Wolves are using the Goliath/Sirocco lines on Stewart to build their Goliath Cs.
So there possibility the Sirocco may have been discontinued. So C you later to the Sirocco?
Steward was in Republic Space for a while, i would have thought that production would have been ended since the Republic was pretty tight fisted allowing exports to go out.
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I am more worried about Corean turning the Sirocco into a Davion design. They could license it out to another Free Worlds League factory world.
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We're not at 50 pages yet, but I feel like with that novella coming out this month we'll get there pretty soon.
Due to the trade deals between Clan Sea Fox and the Wolf Empire and out of respect for the fact Clan Wolf will likely become Ilclan, we have no intention of trialing for wolves for the next thread name.
This time.
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And the Timber Wolf is once again in proper production! Seyla! Interesting after all these years that the exiles focused on the linebacker, finally fulfilling it's prophecy of rrpla ing the timber wolf, among CWX atleast. I'd had a feeling we'd see it on Thermopolis with it's brothers.
Interesting that we seem to have left behind the Weingarten operation. Now the Horses can handcraft them.
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Isn't the only reason the Mech and older ones are making a comeback is because the Kickstart pictures?
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Isn't the only reason the Mech and older ones are making a comeback is because the Kickstart pictures?
Yes, the kickstarter does seem to have a lot to do with the recent resurgence of classic omnis. and had they explicitly listed "we will stop killing off the designs you love and promote them again" as a goal, I would have pledged at Khan-level instead of just Galaxy Commander.
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Well, they also have to shove a bunch of kickstarter characters into Battletech. So this seems like an avenue for that. ;D
I'm super happy to see some mechs like the Hellhound come back though. Another Wolf mech now. I always loved that mech, had good art in the 3055 book and it has good art now.
Also, I was pretty certain I hadn't filled out the Kickstarter characters survey, because my life has been on fire for a long time. But there is a character in this recognition guide that is very suspiciously what I would have written in. So either I must have, or someone else must also be me. ;D
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One thing I found interesting in the new RecGuide, was in the Hammerhead's fluff.
It mentions the Foxes being a bit cross with Clan Wolf for borrowing design elements from the Hammerhead for our own "Project Amarok"
So I looked up what an Amarok was. Solitary monster wolf that eats hunters that hunt at night, out of Inuit myth. Which makes me wonder what it might be. An Omnified Night Wolf would fit that description well.
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One thing I found interesting in the new RecGuide, was in the Hammerhead's fluff.
It mentions the Foxes being a bit cross with Clan Wolf for borrowing design elements from the Hammerhead for our own "Project Amarok"
So I looked up what an Amarok was. Solitary monster wolf that eats hunters that hunt at night, out of Inuit myth. Which makes me wonder what it might be. An Omnified Night Wolf would fit that description well.
I would welcome that since I love the look but not the load out.
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I would welcome that since I love the look but not the load out.
Seyla.
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Maybe something built upon the Skinwalker and Wulfen. Imagine that monstrosity.
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a potentially scary thought.
Though, I am leery of a deep investment into designs that require Enhanced Imaging to function correctly. EI is still, AFAIK, hard on pilots and we need all the true to the blood Wolves we can get, with a massive empire and possible ilClanship on the horizon. It would be a waste to burn away good warriors just to put pilots in these nigh-gundam combat monsters.
Unless factors have been found through protomech use in other clans, and maybe the research that bootstrapped the Skinwalker program, that makes EI less of a ticking clock.
Without something like that, the Wolves still lack a solid homebuilt medium omni option. Something I'm hoping the RecGuides amend.
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The Skinwalker used TSM as well, maybe the Interface Cockpit won't see use especially since it is not in the BMM and the Recognition Guide series focuses on using stuff from that book. TSM-boosted melee Clan Omni could be interesting. The Wulfen i threw there because stealth suits something that is apparently a hunting wolf, and stealth+TSM work together in principle, though the results tend to be expensive in BV.
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Or it could be a hardened armor design with AES in the legs to counter the +1 PSR modifier.
Makes me wonder if we might be getting a good medium finally though it would not be a Omni with Hardened armor- 7/10, Supercharger, some weapon that brings big hits that you need to space to get into that range.
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Seyla.
Scrap the AES and more MDK weapons
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Scrap the AES and more MDK weapons
The AES in the legs is to keep it from falling over. Hardened armor gets the +1 to the PSRs, AES takes that back down and even makes the kicks easier. Its a 'easy' fix like using Hardened on Quads.
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Or it could be a hardened armor design with AES in the legs to counter the +1 PSR modifier.
Makes me wonder if we might be getting a good medium finally though it would not be a Omni with Hardened armor- 7/10, Supercharger, some weapon that brings big hits that you need to space to get into that range.
Could be FerroLam. not quite as durable as hardened, but it works on an omni and wouldn't require AES.
I do think there's room for a 4/6/x Assault Omni in our lineup. Gargoyle, if I were a betting man, I would anticipate going to the Horses (Based on users of the design and the way they split the Summoner/Hellbringer in previous RGs, as well as who holds Tamar/Weingarten these days) so while trade/trial is an option to get them, I doubt they'll be as prominent as they were in the REVIVAL Days. It's also pretty likely we'll get the Dire Wolf I'd say, so we've got 3/5 on lockdown. No point in a 3/5 if we've got the Tomahawk II and Dire Wolf.
Before I knew anything other than the name on the Tomahawk II, though, that's what I anticiapted it being, a 4/6 mover. So if it IS an assault, that's where I'd bet on. We also have that Medium Omni gap that I'm always on about. A partner for the Wulfen would be welcome too, and since the Phantom wasn't part of the kickstarter, I'm not counting on that coming back.
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By designing the Hammerhead the way they did it stands out and it's Unique. I mean I understand we don't want to see all our old favorites to go away for the future. I do think we need to make room for new designs because we're not letting those new designs come about.
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By designing the Hammerhead the way they did it stands out and it's Unique. I mean I understand we don't want to see all our old favorites to go away for the future. I do think we need to make room for new designs because we're not letting those new designs come about.
I mean, because this whole thing has been dragged out for the better part of a decade (seven years since the 3145 TROs started coming out) our New Toys don't feel new anymore. You could argue the Tomahawk II has technically been around since 3090, but we didn't get stats till TRO3145. Likewise, the Warwolf and Wulfen have really only come into their own since the establishment of the Wolf Empire, and the Skinwalker is even newer. And that's not even getting into the static mechs.
We've had plenty of new toys sent our way, I don't think Clan Wolf needs a lot of new designs across the board. I've already got to listen to Foxx Ital grousing that the Wolves get all the love, and his bears aren't.
Plus, If I had a personal say in the matter, if we WERE to get a lot of new toys, I'd rather get them AFTER taking Terra, as symbols of the ilClan and Third League's superior technology.
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I think we will see a stark contrast between what the Wolf Empire fields and what we will see in the ilClan.
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So I looked up what an Amarok was. Solitary monster wolf that eats hunters that hunt at night, out of Inuit myth. Which makes me wonder what it might be. An Omnified Night Wolf would fit that description well.
What we know is that it's got big arms.
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The Hammerhead looks and feels like a shocktrooper type Mech. The combo of leg AES and hardened armor is cool and synergistic. It seems well-suited to the sort of fighting likely to take place on Terra.
I think the Wardens might get the Dire Wolf, since the Crusaders already have the Tomahawk II. Considering the RecGuide thread let slip that the Gargoyle T mounts PAC/8s and that the Summoner T also mounts a PAC/8 the Gargoyle T, at least, is likely a Hell's Horses mech. Though I think, that like the Timber Wolf, the Wolves and Horses are going to share the Gargoyle. I think the reason the Falcons and Horses split the Hellbringer and Summoner was because each is producing an improved version of the other mech.
The Conjurer 8 is interesting. I especially like the story behind its origin. I am definitely going to have to pick up another box when Wave 2 opens back up and mod it as a Conjurer 8. Also, I think one of the Conjurer pilots is my canon character submission.
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I would't bother classing configurations by Clan. Certainly it is possible certain configs originate from certain Clans, but the Omnitechnology makes them available to anyone who has access to right equipment.
However, when it comes to who makes specific 'Mechs, the Gargoyle being a Hell's Horses product nowadays makes sense. Suppose the Wolves were building it, they probably left the factories behind and the Horses took them over.
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I think the Wardens might get the Dire Wolf, since the Crusaders already have the Tomahawk II.
Entirely possible, but the Exiles seem to have retained the Fast Mech Doctrine over the Imperial Wolves who have trended more and more coyote heavy over the years. Also, it would surprise me if the exiles got too many more designs in production, they ARE after all a clan that just got shattered and evicted from their home planet, it's impressive enough that they've done what they've done at AssaultTech. it would also be cool if both Wolf Factions were building it.
I've also combed through all the Jihad material available to me, and all the original information on it that I could find, and everything I could find in my research indicates to me that the production lines that built the Dire Wolf and Kit Fox should still be present on outreach. Everything that got nuked was surface level, and it was all named industries that were accounted for producing other chassis. Meanwhile, the opening to the Blood of Kerensky books has a scene from when the Wolf's Dragoons are first taking over outreach, and Snord has just finished surveying the planet for the Davions. Jaimie and Natasha are talking about how there are these star league era underground manufacturing facilities hidden away, that they can use to prepare for the clan invasion. Now, the Kit Fox is a tech queen, and as such, the Endo Steel Orbital feeding its line probably got shot down, and the surface industries making the little bits and bobs that make a pile of parts into a battlemech got nuked, but the core lines for the Dire Wolf and Kit Fox (still, to this day, strikes me as the weirdest thing to give the dragoons) should still be there.
I just don't anticipate that the Pack of Wolves that said "Yes, yes, I want the Linebacker back in production" choosing it for its speed, over say, also producing the Timber Wolf is going to be terribly eager to put the Dire Wolf back on the market too.
Considering the RecGuide thread let slip that the Gargoyle T mounts PAC/8s and that the Summoner T also mounts a PAC/8 the Gargoyle T, at least, is likely a Hell's Horses mech. Though I think, that like the Timber Wolf, the Wolves and Horses are going to share the Gargoyle. I think the reason the Falcons and Horses split the Hellbringer and Summoner was because each is producing an improved version of the other mech.
That's pretty strange... the Gargoyle T has been known for some time. It was in RS 3145's New Tech New Upgrades section. it carries:
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1x Small Pulse Laser
6x Medium Laser
1x ATM-9 3t@
1x TSEMP Cannon
With no information on its user, but for some reason I've been assuming it was the Horses who had it. I wonder if they're even aware that config was released, if they've got another T config.
I would't bother classing configurations by Clan. Certainly it is possible certain configs originate from certain Clans, but the Omnitechnology makes them available to anyone who has access to right equipment.
And that just reminds me of the early RATs where they had omnimechs on them by config, rather than by chassis.
However, when it comes to who makes specific 'Mechs, the Gargoyle being a Hell's Horses product nowadays makes sense. Suppose the Wolves were building it, they probably left the factories behind and the Horses took them over.
Well, We had a factory on Tamar, and then the Word of Blake came along. It's probably cooled down quite a bit by now though, might be salvagable. I doubt we bothered lugging that rubble with us when we migrated.
the original line in FM3145 said that we left a lot of the infrastructure in place, but not the means to make specific mechs. Looks like that's changing.
it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it WERE Clan Wolf and Clan Hell's Horses building it, but it also wouldn't surprise me if it were the exiles rather than the imperials, or if it was a summoner/hellbringer split.
The Timber Wolf W really kindof Obsoletes the Gargolye further at this point. It used to be that if you were playing canon designs only, the Gargoyle offered you some options that the Timber Wolf didn't. the Gargoyle H, I suppose, is a config that doesn't have an equivalent, but one of the Gargoyle's previous advantages was that it had a big bore autocannon config and the Timber Wolf didn't have any canon configs with one.
Now, it's only real distinctions are the stabilized arms quirk and the fact that it's still a better Battle Armor Taxi. At this point, if you're using a gargoyle, its because you want to use a gargoyle.(and I will be, it's a design I've come to appreciate, maybe even appreciate more than most)
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Considering the RecGuide thread let slip that the Gargoyle T mounts PAC/8s
Also, if you could point me at that post, that'd be awesome.
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Do the Wolves in the DA wear gray for their uniform, or tan?
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Do the Wolves in the DA wear gray for their uniform, or tan?
Stackpoles introduction of Vlad Wolf in his dark age novel probably has a description of the uniform. He was big on what people wore. He was the Tim Gunn of battletech.
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I got gray for ceremonial leather, just wondered about the regular uniform. I'll probably just wing it and not even mention it so it doesn't ruin whatever people imagine :thumbsup:
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That's pretty strange... the Gargoyle T has been known for some time. It was in RS 3145's New Tech New Upgrades section. it carries:
.
1x Small Pulse Laser
6x Medium Laser
1x ATM-9 3t@
1x TSEMP Cannon
With no information on its user, but for some reason I've been assuming it was the Horses who had it. I wonder if they're even aware that config was released, if they've got another T config.
That one is getting a new configuration letter so that all the T's are the new art-matching ones.
The Timber Wolf W really kindof Obsoletes the Gargolye further at this point. It used to be that if you were playing canon designs only, the Gargoyle offered you some options that the Timber Wolf didn't. the Gargoyle H, I suppose, is a config that doesn't have an equivalent, but one of the Gargoyle's previous advantages was that it had a big bore autocannon config and the Timber Wolf didn't have any canon configs with one.
Now, it's only real distinctions are the stabilized arms quirk and the fact that it's still a better Battle Armor Taxi. At this point, if you're using a gargoyle, its because you want to use a gargoyle.(and I will be, it's a design I've come to appreciate, maybe even appreciate more than most)
The new variants will continue to give it separation from the Timber Wolf. And like you said with almost all arm/CT weapons in the first variants, it's a much better BA transport than the Timber Wolf.
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That one is getting a new configuration letter so that all the T's are the new art-matching ones.
Cool. Does T stand for anything in particular?
The new variants will continue to give it separation from the Timber Wolf. And like you said with almost all arm/CT weapons in the first variants, it's a much better BA transport than the Timber Wolf.
Even better! I'm eager to see innovation for the Gargoyle, I enjoy abusing people's expectations regarding that mech.
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I'm going with tan for their regular uniforms. Thanks to that old picture of Vlad in the pre-Khan days.
Any objections from the Wolves here?
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Cool. Does T stand for anything in particular?
That's a good question, I'm not sure if I've heard a reason anywhere. My best guess is it wasn't used (except is a few cases) and maybe T as in TRO?
Even better! I'm eager to see innovation for the Gargoyle, I enjoy abusing people's expectations regarding that mech.
Absolutely, I figure there had to be some good reasons the Wolves developed it alongside the Timber Wolf and why Ulric Kerensky chose to pilot one. Make it something to be respected if not feared.
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I'm going with tan for their regular uniforms. Thanks to that old picture of Vlad in the pre-Khan days.
Any objections from the Wolves here?
I have vague recollections of references to tan uniforms still, but I can't remember where. Might be my faulty memory *shrug* Sits plenty well with me.
Absolutely, I figure there had to be some good reasons the Wolves developed it alongside the Timber Wolf and why Ulric Kerensky chose to pilot one. Make it something to be respected if not feared.
Well, with his Blood Stalker SPA, the Stabilized arm Quirk, and the bonus to LBX Pellets, that's pretty much "Free Called Shots to the face." on a Gargoyle Prime. That's how I figure he offed the Bear Khans before REVIVAL.
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Well, Ulric is credited with the D, but the 10 points of the ERLL can breach a head.
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Well, it IS an omni. No reason he could not make use of the versatility.
Shame we did not get the D as his config in MWO, instead his Kin Wolf there is derived from the prime, but mounts LB2X guns instead of 5's. and mismatched Streak 4 and 6 launchers instead of plain SRMs.
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Also, if you could point me at that post, that'd be awesome.
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=69931.msg1641381#msg1641381 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=69931.msg1641381#msg1641381)
I wasn't suggesting that the Gargoyle T was a variant exclusive to the Horses, just that it likely originated with them and maybe more common among them, but I guess I didn't make that clear. With them making use of Protomechs it makes sense that they would have greater access to Protomech weaponry like Protomech ACs, than other Clans.
Edit: While FM3145 says that the Wolve stripped their manufacturing facilities when they left their OZ and took their mobile factories with them all the fixed facilities and equipment and infrastructure that couldn't be easily taken with them remained for the Horses to use when they took Tamar and Weingarten, which FM3145 notes is exactly what they did. Considering the Gargoyle was the first Omnimech Tamar's factories produced before the Scouring, I would think it would be the first Omnimech put back into production on Tamar. It should have been easier to reconstruct the Gargoyle lines than to build all new manufacturing lines, once the Wolves moved to restore Omni production on Tamar.
Also, with the Wolf Empire building Woodsman and Timber Wolf Omnis it would be nice to see them producing the other Woodsman successors as well.
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https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=69931.msg1641381#msg1641381 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=69931.msg1641381#msg1641381)
Edit: While FM3145 says that the Wolve stripped their manufacturing facilities when they left their OZ and took their mobile factories with them all the fixed facilities and equipment and infrastructure that couldn't be easily taken with them remained for the Horses to use when they took Tamar and Weingarten, which FM3145 notes is exactly what they did. Considering the Gargoyle was the first Omnimech Tamar's factories produced before the Scouring, I would think it would be the first Omnimech put back into production on Tamar. It should have been easier to reconstruct the Gargoyle lines than to build all new manufacturing lines, once the Wolves moved to restore Omni production on Tamar.
The lines were nuked . . . you cannot put vaporized forges, crucibles, conveyor belts, robotic arms, ferro-crete buildings, and lower caste back on the job. Now if everything was not located in one space (like most of DefHes)- which Clan enclaves point to being their production style- then the FF armor could have been produced nearer the mining locations & shipped to the factory. But all I can think of is that the first level of refined products could have been dispersed . . . but its also what the Horses would have ended up taking- the facilities that are 5 or 6 steps removed from building a complete mech.
When relocating, which are you going to take on the dropship- the crucibles & forges that create the alloy for engine shielding or the actual equipment that combines the physical engine shielding, magnetic shielding, reactor controls, and initial heat sinks to create a functioning combat fusion engine?
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I merely point out a number of the Wolf Empire lines were nuked.
OZ-1 was nuked 70 years ago. Plenty of time for Clan Wolf to reactivate it.
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So, looking at the mechs that made it into the Kickstarter, I think the two obviously most Wolf Relevant designs left in the lineup are the Gargoyle and Dire Wolf, I can't wait to see how the chips fall on those.
But I was thinkin about it. There's a bit of a Dark Horse. The Mist Lynx, where does it go?
I'm figuring it'll either be Sea Fox or Clan Wolf. It used to have a decent presence on our RATs, AFAICT it was because we bullied the heck out of smoke jaguars and salvaged them. and the Sea Foxes have the Koshi static battlemech.
It's not ESSENTIAL, but it's not a design I'd say no to. Had some great shenanigans in my MWO Mist Lynx back when it was relevant.
Edit: Just occurred to me. Wouldn't it be a trip if the Fidelis started building them?
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According to Objective: Clans and FM3085 the assembly lines on Tamar were (re)built on the site of OZ-1, so unless the location itself is advantageous, there could have been some portions left of OZ-1 that the Wolves made use of to rebuild the facilities that were present on Tamar as of 3085. My main point though was that if the Gargoyle was the first Omni put into production in the IS prior to the Scouring of Tamar it would make sense if it was the among first Omnis put back into full production in the course of their rebuilding.
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So, looking at the mechs that made it into the Kickstarter, I think the two obviously most Wolf Relevant designs left in the lineup are the Gargoyle and Dire Wolf, I can't wait to see how the chips fall on those.
But I was thinkin about it. There's a bit of a Dark Horse. The Mist Lynx, where does it go?
I'm figuring it'll either be Sea Fox or Clan Wolf. It used to have a decent presence on our RATs, AFAICT it was because we bullied the heck out of smoke jaguars and salvaged them. and the Sea Foxes have the Koshi static battlemech.
It's not ESSENTIAL, but it's not a design I'd say no to. Had some great shenanigans in my MWO Mist Lynx back when it was relevant.
Edit: Just occurred to me. Wouldn't it be a trip if the Fidelis started building them?
Along those lines, there's also the Arctic Cheetah (Hankyu). The TRO entry says the Jaguars, Vipers, Hellions, Nova Cats, and Sharks were heavy users of the design. That seems like the Foxes/Sharks, but the one notable pilot is a Crusader Wolf who was taken abtahka from the Hellions. The Foxes/Sharks could be the main producers, but I think the Arctic Cheetah works as a lower-end Omni for the Wolves with the Wulfen taking the top spot.
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I'm figuring it'll either be Sea Fox or Clan Wolf. It used to have a decent presence on our RATs, AFAICT it was because we bullied the heck out of smoke jaguars and salvaged them. and the Sea Foxes have the Koshi static battlemech.
;D what? Everybody had access to the Mist Lynx, it had been around since the early 2900s and there's no indication the Jaguars guarded the design with any extra zeal. The leading Clans of both the Warden and Crusader movements would naturally field sizeable complements of each other's equipment. I'd be surprised if the Wolves would want the Mist Lynx in the current timeframe. It's still serviceable sure, but I can think of at least two designs off-hand that were designed to replace it. The Falcons were actively shuffling their Lynxes off to second-line units in 3058U to make room for more Fire Falcons, and the Hellions considered the Lynx aged in the 3030s, hence the Hankyu.
I'm uncertain about Koshi BattleMech comparison. The Foxes/Sharks were not the masters of the Timber Wolf, and yet they came up with both the Mad Cat mk II and III. At the same time, they're probably the best option if any new Mist Lynx are being made IMO.
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Maybe the Ravens? They seem to be building/expanding their ground forces since they are not forced into the Aero niche.
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Question for you Wolfophiles:
What was the justification for Alaric having the surname "Wolf"?
I've hunted around a bit, and am having trouble finding an answer.
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Question for you Wolfophiles:
What was the justification for Alaric having the surname "Wolf"?
I've hunted around a bit, and am having trouble finding an answer.
I think some Clanners don’t use Clan this or Clan that as their surname they just use the animal totem their Clan represents. According to Sarna.net he earned his bloodname and Khan of the Wolf Empire in 3143.
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Question for you Wolfophiles:
What was the justification for Alaric having the surname "Wolf"?
I've hunted around a bit, and am having trouble finding an answer.
Maybe this was just me interpreting things, but I've always believed the "Wolf" surname was something that anyone from that clan could use, freeborn or trueborn, if they didn't have a bloodname to help identify which clan they belonged to. Most of the time within the clans there was no need, but among folks of the IS who weren't used to a person not having a surname it helped.
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Becomes cumbersome in some other Clans. Alaric Hell's Horse? Alaric Blood Spirit?
EDIT Upon seeing my avatar, i remembered there have been some characters who have used "Nova Cat" as surname. Think there was that one Elemental bondsman to the Wolf's Dragoons? And Kisho Nova Cat?
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Elson Nova Cat was a important part of the Dragoons' Civil War . . . but yeah, its a thing for most of the Clans but a few have been noted to mock it since it gives a surname, pretensions, etc.
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Maybe this was just me interpreting things, but I've always believed the "Wolf" surname was something that anyone from that clan could use, freeborn or trueborn, if they didn't have a bloodname to help identify which clan they belonged to. Most of the time within the clans there was no need, but among folks of the IS who weren't used to a person not having a surname it helped.
I've always assumed it was related to a freeborn being adopted into the Warrior Caste; we had the Dragoon brothers, Elson Nova Cat, and Phelan Wolf who point towards that trend.
Alaric kind of bucks that, though. It does appear that it was people outside his Clan that referred to him as Alaric Wolf, so it being used for Spheroids would work.
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Since it was used by warriors who were taken bondsman originally, I could see that as a way of making up for the fact your chances of fighting for at the time exclusive bloodname are lower.
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Alaric is an exceptional case all in all. Not a Ward or even part of any Clan Bloodhouse, yet trueborn and allowed to compete for the name of Ward. Wolf part in his name is the least weird thing all in all, really.
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The Jade Falcons were one of the Clans that mocked the practice but IIRC we have other examples than the ones mentioned.
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Alaric is an exceptional case all in all. Not a Ward or even part of any Clan Bloodhouse, yet trueborn and allowed to compete for the name of Ward. Wolf part in his name is the least weird thing all in all, really.
That wasn't common knowledge during his early life, though.
So if that was to be the sole justification for using the surname "Wolf", it would raise a bunch of red flags among his fellow Wolves.
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Alaric is an exceptional case all in all. Not a Ward or even part of any Clan Bloodhouse, yet trueborn and allowed to compete for the name of Ward. Wolf part in his name is the least weird thing all in all, really.
He was considered a member of the Ward bloodhouse through Vlad's own deceptions, so it wasn't like it was openly known when he participated in it that he was not truly a descendant of the bloodhouse.
The use of Wolf as a surname by the time of the Dark Ages was remarked on being an adaptation to being in the Inner Sphere for so long. Other Clans, like the Jade Falcons, did not adopt or think highly of the practice.
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The use of Wolf as a surname by the time of the Dark Ages was remarked on being an adaptation to being in the Inner Sphere for so long. Other Clans, like the Jade Falcons, did not adopt or think highly of the practice.
This is the sort of detail I was looking for! Could you tell me where you found it?
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I was under the impression Clan name was being used when a Clan individuals were cut off from the Clan and was working with non-Clan societies. The absence of a surname reason why clan name was being used. There too many dupicate first names out there. Again there are few bloodnamed warriors so not as bad. However it breaks down. Especially if you have half dozen Bobs or Janes.
I remember reading the novels that Clan first names are sometimes pulled out of a hat.
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This is the sort of detail I was looking for! Could you tell me where you found it?
Unfortunately its not true- its the explanation for Jamie & Joshua . . . and others in earlier material.
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This is the sort of detail I was looking for! Could you tell me where you found it?
There is a line in Bonfire of Worlds about it, from Beckett Malthus' perspective. I'll try to look for it again when I have time.
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There is a line in Bonfire of Worlds about it, from Beckett Malthus' perspective. I'll try to look for it again when I have time.
I just took a look around, and I'm guessing this is the line you were thinking of:
"Alaric, not Alaric Wolf. Malvina was not one to invent a last name for a Clan warrior who had failed to earn a Bloodname. In this, Beckett agreed with her."
Still a bit vague.
I guess it could have been a political move on Katherine's behalf to try to get Alaric more clout within and without Clan Wolf.
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There was also Rickard Nova Cat. I can't find any reason for him to have been given some surname as some sort of weight. Other members of the Spirit Cats were also called <insert first name> Nova Cat. While these references were with the Spirit Cats, the Mystics of Clan Nova Cat were also called Nova Cat.
<shrugs>
My assumption as I read through is that it depended on the Clan and their interaction with the inner sphere. Members of Clan Wolf-in-Exile who hadn't even passed their warrior trials were using the name Wolf as a surname in the Dark Ages as well. There was the one who was part of the Storm Hammers, and Alaric's girlfriend.
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Elson Nova Cat, from the Dragoon Civil War- it goes back that far, it is not a recent trend. BUT as was pointed out the Falcons never went for it from the beginning (IE, no Horse Jade Falcon- just Horse). The Falcon failure to use the Clan as a surname is just spelled out recently, rather than 'not done for unknown reasons.'
For your second part, you are referring to Alexia & Serena respectively . . . and the funny thing is, Alexia Wolf was Jasek Kelswa-Steiner's mattress buddy too.
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Elson Nova Cat, from the Dragoon Civil War- it goes back that far, it is not a recent trend. BUT as was pointed out the Falcons never went for it from the beginning (IE, no Horse Jade Falcon- just Horse). The Falcon failure to use the Clan as a surname is just spelled out recently, rather than 'not done for unknown reasons.'
For your second part, you are referring to Alexia & Serena respectively . . . and the funny thing is, Alexia Wolf was Jasek Kelswa-Steiner's mattress buddy too.
Also the thing is that depends who the author is as well. I'd not heard of a official franchise bible spelling out how character names are suppose to be socially or otherwise.
Alexia kept using the Wolf name even in her time with Clan Wolf as well as Alaric Ward-Steiner's lover & assistant.
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Alexia was Jasek's squeeze. Serena was Alaric's flame, and she came from the Warden Wolves which had practiced the 'Wolf' surname.
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Alexia was Jasek's squeeze. Serena was Alaric's flame, and she came from the Warden Wolves which had practiced the 'Wolf' surname.
I forgot about Serena. Depressing.
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;D what? Everybody had access to the Mist Lynx, it had been around since the early 2900s and there's no indication the Jaguars guarded the design with any extra zeal.
Access does not mean production though. I've seen nothing to indicate that it was in any way likely that the wolves built the design themselves historically.
Alaric Wolf
IIRC technically anyone in the clan has the clan as their surname, but it's only made a point of, in the case of adoptees. Also, since Alaric was briefly Anastasia's Bondsman, an argument could be made for there being a period following his return from that, until he had his bloodname, where it would be a bit picky, but a legitimate use of the clansurname.
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If Alaric is a Ward, not of the Ward bloodhouse. How they even justifying him having the name. They have to be able to trace the name. Phelan mother was clearly a Ward.
He cousins with Alaric's mom. That be said, i wasn't under the impression he was remotely related to the Wards. He related to the Kell's through Katherine Steiner-Davion's Grand Father being cousin with Morgan & Patrick Kell.
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IIRC technically anyone in the clan has the clan as their surname, but it's only made a point of, in the case of adoptees.
If you ever happen to stumble across a source for this, I'd be interested in knowing it.
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I have this scene in my head that I'm just going to write out.
Khan Seth: "That's what she wants. That's what she's getting. I don't need to hear any more about should you do it. Can you do it?"
Chief Scientist: "Da. We understand. We do. Leave all to us. There will be no worry."
Khan Seth: "Good. I expect great things from this project."
Chief Scientist: "We will obey."
Khan Seth exits
Chief Scientist: "No one should worry. Solution is easy. Even most junior of us should figure it out. You! Most Junior Scientist! What is solution?"
Most Junior Scientist: "We take the X chromosome that was passed to both Victor and Kathrine and turn it into a Y chromosome. We then take Vlad's X chromosome and use it for maternal material."
Chief Scientist: "Exactly. We say it has same genes as Victor. Same genes as Katherine. Same genes as Vlad. Everyone happy!"
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If you ever happen to stumble across a source for this, I'd be interesting in knowing it.
I will keep an eye out for it. not 100% certain, I DID disclaim that with an "IIRC" for a reason.
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In the MWDA novels there are some not Bondsmen characters running around being called by their clan names. Sonia Sea Fox. Rikkard Nova Cat. Etc. Etc.
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The Ritual of Adoption in ED: Golden Century and The Clans: Warriors of Kerensky has some of it. I thought there were more refs, but I can't find them right now.
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That's fantastic! Thanks wantec.
Still makes no sense for Alaric, but hey, whatever. Like Auberan said, probably just a Dark Age adaptation to the IS.
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That's fantastic! Thanks wantec.
Still makes no sense for Alaric, but hey, whatever. Like Auberan said, probably just a Dark Age adaptation to the IS.
I know that section talks about adoptees which doesn't fit for Alaric, but I thought it was a general practice once the clans came to the IS as a way to adapt for people not used to someone only having 1 name. Like they may have referred to people as "Kyle of the Wolves", which folks in the IS morphed into "Kyle Wolf" or Hans of the Ghost Bears into Hans Ghost Bear, or Shayna of the Hell's Horses into Shayna Hells Horse. Not that it was every officially Clan policy, but simply a practice that made life in the IS a little easier.
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I would say it also depends on the setting . . . for one thing, we also get Clan characters referenced as 'Phelan of the Wards' identifying the bloodhouse they belong to without giving them that surname.
But yeah, Kyle Wolf is a great example . . . unblooded mechwarrior near solahma age, but that is how he is referred to by Anastasia in fiction IIRC- when she forces his commander to actually give him a real mech despite his age.
Side note- when you get old on the battlefield piloting a agromech while surrounded by real military gear, you have skills. I think we last saw him in the late 3130s, but I have to wonder if he survived the Wolf Hunters and was integrated into the Crusader Wolves . . . did she push for him to get into a bloodname trial?
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I would say it also depends on the setting . . . for one thing, we also get Clan characters referenced as 'Phelan of the Wards' identifying the bloodhouse they belong to without giving them that surname.
But yeah, Kyle Wolf is a great example . . . unblooded mechwarrior near solahma age, but that is how he is referred to by Anastasia in fiction IIRC- when she forces his commander to actually give him a real mech despite his age.
Side note- when you get old on the battlefield piloting a agromech while surrounded by real military gear, you have skills. I think we last saw him in the late 3130s, but I have to wonder if he survived the Wolf Hunters and was integrated into the Crusader Wolves . . . did she push for him to get into a bloodname trial?
Oh I guess that is a named character. I was just picking random names and tying them to a clan
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Lol . . . Kyle Wolf of the Steel Wolves followed Anastasia with some devotion . . . piloted a unmod'd AgroMech into combat in a star with real battlemechs. The impression was the snobby bloodnamed Star Commander kept trying to get him killed so he could replace him . . . Anastasia calls him in and questions why Kyle is still piloting the agromech. Star Commander jumps to the wrong conclusion, suggests taking the agromech away and sending him to infantry. She chews him out, one of the most successful warriors in the star with the absolute worst ride (I think she cites mech/veh kills). Tells the star commander to assign him a real mech out of the isorla.
From the DL section available in the dossiers on this site-
Kyle Wolf is a freeborn Wolf Clan warrior who recently had the bad taste to live beyond thirty years of age. As a result, he is doubly
shamed in the eyes of his society, which traditionally values younger warriors, particularly those birthed in the iron wombs. Sheer
determination and battle prowess, however, has not only allowed Kyle to obtain and hold on to his enviable position as a
MechWarrior, but has even driven him into the ranks of the veteran Crusaders Cluster, as a member of a recon Star.
Unfortunately, since obtaining this position, many of his more opportunistic comrades have come to consider the aging ―freebirth‖
something of a pariah, undeserving of his post and taking up valuable advancement potential. In order to prove himself worthy, Kyle
finds himself engaged in Trial after Trial against those among his fellow Wolves who seek to unseat him, and to date he has bested
them all. However, the physical toll of so many personal challenges has begun to show in his battlefield performance, and his
assignment to an unconverted AgroMech — rather than a proper BattleMech — may be a sign that this warrior‘s career with the Steel
Wolves is nearing its end.
-initial entry
And . . . from the Wolf Strike set, he has a Warwolf named 'Vindication' that appears to be in Alaric's Beta colors! No bio though to say how it happened.
Hmm, apparently Warrenborn is broken so I cannot look it up . . . but by appearances he runs a Prime. It was not the mech Anastasia ordered for him however.
But to the point, ALL the Steel Wolves used 'Wolf' as a surname if they did not have a bloodname- even the one with maternal Jaguar DNA.
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Lol . . . Kyle Wolf of the Steel Wolves followed Anastasia with some devotion . . . piloted a unmod'd AgroMech into combat in a star with real battlemechs. The impression was the snobby bloodnamed Star Commander kept trying to get him killed so he could replace him . . . Anastasia calls him in and questions why Kyle is still piloting the agromech. Star Commander jumps to the wrong conclusion, suggests taking the agromech away and sending him to infantry. She chews him out, one of the most successful warriors in the star with the absolute worst ride (I think she cites mech/veh kills). Tells the star commander to assign him a real mech out of the isorla.
From the DL section available in the dossiers on this site-
Kyle Wolf is a freeborn Wolf Clan warrior who recently had the bad taste to live beyond thirty years of age. As a result, he is doubly
shamed in the eyes of his society, which traditionally values younger warriors, particularly those birthed in the iron wombs. Sheer
determination and battle prowess, however, has not only allowed Kyle to obtain and hold on to his enviable position as a
MechWarrior, but has even driven him into the ranks of the veteran Crusaders Cluster, as a member of a recon Star.
Unfortunately, since obtaining this position, many of his more opportunistic comrades have come to consider the aging ―freebirth‖
something of a pariah, undeserving of his post and taking up valuable advancement potential. In order to prove himself worthy, Kyle
finds himself engaged in Trial after Trial against those among his fellow Wolves who seek to unseat him, and to date he has bested
them all. However, the physical toll of so many personal challenges has begun to show in his battlefield performance, and his
assignment to an unconverted AgroMech — rather than a proper BattleMech — may be a sign that this warrior‘s career with the Steel
Wolves is nearing its end.
-initial entry
And . . . from the Wolf Strike set, he has a Warwolf named 'Vindication' that appears to be in Alaric's Beta colors! No bio though to say how it happened.
I know of him, but thanks for the refresher.
Hmm, apparently Warrenborn is broken so I cannot look it up . . . but by appearances he runs a Prime. It was not the mech Anastasia ordered for him however.
Yeah he mentioned having some issues
But to the point, ALL the Steel Wolves used 'Wolf' as a surname if they did not have a bloodname- even the one with maternal Jaguar DNA.
The Jaguar DNA is in the hands of different clans now (except for the Fidelis) so they are whatever new clan. Same goes for anyone taken by an existing Clan, they are part of their new clan.
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Kyle Wolf is the greatest Wolf MechWarrior ever
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I think people just notice it because it's stressed with Bondsmen....
You aren't a Jade Falcon now, you are Dan Wolf. You aren't your Inner Sphere last name, you are part of our tribe.
So I think you just notice it more.
Jaime Wolf has been around forever.
There just isn't any reason to mention it, narratively, if it isn't someone recently changing.
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... That may have to be Medium Omnimech enough for me.
Me: genemother, can we have medium omnimech?
GM: you have medium omnimech at home.
The Medium Omnimech At Home: Linebacker.jpg
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... That may have to be Medium Omnimech enough for me.
Me: genemother, can we have medium omnimech?
GM: you have medium omnimech at home.
The Medium Omnimech At Home: Linebacker.jpg
Though it DOES make the Dominator line more economically feasible- parts commonality.
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This is true
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Kyle Wolf is the greatest Wolf MechWarrior ever
But can he beat Goku?
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But can he beat Goku?
At mech piloting? Almost definitely.
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At mech piloting? Almost definitely.
.....touché. I see now why your clan needed two piranha's that did the fusion dance and became the linebacker I.
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.....touché. I see now why your clan needed two piranha's that did the fusion dance and became the linebacker I.
Don't give away Clan Sea Fox proprietary secrets. You signed a non-disclosure agreement. :ticked: Our legal team at Hawker, Hammond & Nearly Biologically Identical Sons © will be issuing a batchall soon.
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I have to admit there were quite few War crimes mech configurations in this batch of Mechs for RecGuides.
Are the powers that be telling us there going be quite bit of infantryman on Terra plow through to the prize?
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We're twenty years into the Age of Destruction and you're still complaining about Warcrime 'mechs? I'm surprised that Night Wolf production hasn't quadrupled and there aren't full clusters of the thing.
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But can he beat Goku?
Goku is a Mandrill.
I have to admit there were quite few War crimes mech configurations in this batch of Mechs for RecGuides.
Are the powers that be telling us there going be quite bit of infantryman on Terra plow through to the prize?
Or someone noticed MGs provide solid damage, massive, clusters, and no heat on fast Mechs.
It was a Solaris technique around 3055/58 that bled into a few line Mechs at the time. Eg Piranha, Incubus.
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Goku is a Mandrill.
I... Like this way too much
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I... Like this way too much
The goku kindraa is always ignoring it's sibkos and has another kindraa raise them.
I'm enjoying the machine gun dakka, it's cigar and burst time trothkin.
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Goku is a Mandrill.
I... Like this way too much
Goku is Monkey King...(cough)..the Fire Mandrill Khan after all. ^-^
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Goku is Monkey King...(cough)..the Fire Mandrill Khan after all. ^-^
He will always be a Sun Wukong rip off to me. No matter how awesome he is.
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And . . . from the Wolf Strike set, he has a Warwolf named 'Vindication' that appears to be in Alaric's Beta colors! No bio though to say how it happened.
Hmm, apparently Warrenborn is broken so I cannot look it up . . . but by appearances he runs a Prime. It was not the mech Anastasia ordered for him however.
But to the point, ALL the Steel Wolves used 'Wolf' as a surname if they did not have a bloodname- even the one with maternal Jaguar DNA.
https://bg.battletech.com/download/MWDA_Uniques.pdf (https://bg.battletech.com/download/MWDA_Uniques.pdf)Kyle Wolf's Warwolf Vindication can be found on page 375 of the linked pdf. From the looks of the Warwolf it is a Prime in Alpha Galaxy's Dark Age colors of Gray, Tan, and White. Beta Galaxy's colors are Brown and Orange as described in Bonfire of Worlds and seen on the covers of Field Manual 3145, TRO 3145, and the new Bonfire of Worlds cover.
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https://bg.battletech.com/download/MWDA_Uniques.pdf (https://bg.battletech.com/download/MWDA_Uniques.pdf)Kyle Wolf's Warwolf Vindication can be found on page 375 of the linked pdf. From the looks of the Warwolf it is a Prime in Alpha Galaxy's Dark Age colors of Gray, Tan, and White. Beta Galaxy's colors are Brown and Orange as described in Bonfire of Worlds and seen on the covers of Field Manual 3145, TRO 3145, and the new Bonfire of Worlds cover.
Don't use the colors of MWDA units to determine which unit a 'Mech is assigned to. WizKids used their own color schemes to make the combat units easier to identify at a glance on the tabletop. There were 3 levels of experience for each faction (green, veteran, elite) and each experience level corresponded to a specific unit. For example the Jade Falcons were Zeta Galaxy (green), Delta Galaxy (veteran) and the Turkina Keshik (elite).
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Yeah, there is no fluff which is why I was a bit surprised to find him under a later entry . . . and wantec is right. The question of which of the 3 sub-units a figure would belong to could be determed by how much of one color the fig had- FREX the Steel Wolves used silver & blood red . . . the more silver on the fig, the more elite the unit was which meant some of the elite Steel Wolf units were mostly silver figures.
Yeah, I made a initial mistake identifying it as Beta . . . but to me, he would be a lot more likely to end up under Alaric if given a Warwolf. Alpha under Seth Ward (at that point) seems REALLY unlikely.
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Yeah, I wasn't really tracking the way MWDA handled the paint schemes on their Mechs. I figured with the Grey/Tan/White being associated with Alpha Galaxy on Camospecs and that Era Report 3145 focuses on Alpha Galaxy in the campaign section covering the Wolves against the Republic circa 3136-3137 that all the figures were supposed to be Alpha Galaxy. Looking at the pdf and the various Clan Wolf Mechs it does seem that there are different accent colors. It looks like red, silver, and gold. I wonder if each color represents the 3 different Galaxies that participated in the raid through the Republic. Perhaps with Gold being Alpha, Silver being Beta, and Red being Delta.
Kyle Wolf does seem a better fit for serving under Alaric Ward, especially with their shared history with Anastasia. Assuming he's survived past 3145 I wonder if he is now with Alpha Galaxy serving again under Tassa K.
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So, just re-read the Blood of Kerensky trilogy, and it raised a question I think may soon again be relevant.
During Operation REVIVAL, when we still had Ulric as ilKhan, we had Ulric, as ilKhan, Natasha Kerensky as Senior Khan, and Phelan (then) Ward as saKhan. I have to wonder if we will see the same structure occur with a more permanent ilKhan of the ilClan. Will we have ilKhan Alaric Ward, Khan Anastasia Kerensky and saKhan... Well, that's one of the questions, who WOULD you speculate on for saKhan?
On a related note, I've looked and looked and looked, but I can't find anything that associates Liam Ward with a combat unit. Only that he is Loremaster. Is he supposed to be Loremaster and nothing but? or is he supposed to have a command, and it just is not listed anywhere I can see?
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Well, Garner Kerensky is still alive . . .
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Well, Garner Kerensky is still alive . . .
that's right! he did wander back out of the woods. Well, that seems a strong possibility.
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For Liam it might depend on how mobile he is. If he is in poor shape he might not to be able to command a unit but he did earn the respect of his peers to be made Loremaster. If the wolves become the iClan they may make a Jade Falcon or other clan Sakhan to show how all the sides are now one (similar to Goliath Scorpions absorbing the Ice Helions).
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Given the 3250 framing devices, it might be an elevated Loremaster rather than sa-il-Khan or something of that nature.
I believe it was Weirdo who I saw post it, but over in the falcon thread a little while ago, I saw a theorypost about a Post-Malvina Clan Jade Falcon taking on the role of Loreclan, to make sure the ilClan does not forget what it is to be clan in their victory, and I find myself really hoping that is how it pans out.
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Considering Garner Kerensky is already running the Clan Watch and is described as at odds with Liam Ward I could see him replacing Liam Ward as Loremaster. Which would leave the saKhan spot available for Khan Miriam Shaw of the Warden Wolves. As the previously mentioned example of the Scorpions and Hellions demonstrate the best way to unite both halves of Clan Wolf is to have Miriam Shaw become part of the power structure of a united Clan Wolf.
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Problem there is Garner is described as being rather . . . simple . . . in his thinking. Not sure the Wardens or Dragoons are actually with the Crusaders on Terra to stay. Alaric's character is being well written to call in all the allies possible- and Malvina is absolutely the Warden calling in the flesh- but it does not mean they remain part of the power structure . . . and it will cause its own problems as the Wardens and Dragoons will not want to be bullet sponges.
Well . . . maybe, the Dragoons want to be at the forefront of the fighting so . . .
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I want all my Wolves back together again as one big, happy dysfunctional
family ilClan damnit!
On a more serious note I believe Era Report 3145 described Garner Kerensky as politically unskilled/inept, or at least that was the Republic Remnant's analysis. An analysis that that seems to go against the fact that he is still alive and serving Alaric and the Clan faithfully, it could simply be that he dislikes or is simply disinterested in a lot of the typical political wrangling and plotting. The fact that he could wrest control of the Watch from their traditional boss, and that the Watch has demonstrated no ill effects from his leadership or the rivalry between Loremaster and saKhan, says good things either about Garner's leadership, or the professionalism of the Watch. Also, while Alaric and Seth Ward were making a big showing of driving to Tharkad, it was Garner Kerensky with the less elite Galaxies that pushed all the way to the Fortress Wall taking a whole swathe of Lyran and Republic Remnant territory. Not exactly something a simple thinker should be capable of.
My read on Garner Kerensky is that he seems to be solidly competent, reliable, cunning, but not a brilliant genius like Alaric and Anastasia are described as being. Also, he doesn't strike me as extremely ambitious or ultra-traditional. However, considering we only get bits and pieces with a mention here and there in various sources about Garner Kerensky there isn't a whole lot to go on and some of my interpretation is based on nothing but theory and speculation mostly derived from my belief that the Garner described in Era Report 3145 doesn't entirely match his depiction in other sources, and that Shattered Fortress and Divided We Fall implies he has been doing something clandestine and important off-screen. Though it seems anytime Garner does something cool or important it happens off-screen.
The Warden-Crusader split has always seemed to me to be an argument over means and methods not necessarily goal. Both sides want a similar, if not the same, goal. So the prospect of being part of the ilClan and founding a new Star League, while at the same time defending Terra from Malvina and her Falcons has to be extremely attractive, even for Wardens. Also, perhaps the best guarantee of not being used as cannon-fodder is to have a major role in the command and leadership of a united Clan touman. If Miriam Shaw holds the second position in a united Clan Wolf it would be much harder to throw her Wardens away. If they are part of the Clan rather than separate there is less incentive for Alaric to waste them or want to get rid of them. Offering Miriam Shaw a major position in a united Clan Wolf would show a level of respect and commitment that could go a long way toward assuaging any doubts on the part of the Wardens, and winning their loyalty. I do think there is a bit of poetry to the Wolves uniting over a major war with the Falcons, just as such a war split them.
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(Places a "d" in Garner Kerensky's first name t reveal his true calling/occupation.) Gardner Kerensky.
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I DECLARE A TRIAL OF POSSESSION FOR YOUR PRIZE ROSE BUSH
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The Wulfen TRO entry helps explain Garner Kerensky some, he's one hell of a skilled MechWarrior and loyal. He took the first Wulfen prototype off the factory and used it to beat a Star Colonel in a Hellbrigner. He did it because said Star Colonel was attacking the Wulfen as a tainted design and attacking Khan Seth Ward over the design. With only an ERLL he beat the Star Colonel.
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The Wulfen TRO entry helps explain Garner Kerensky some, he's one hell of a skilled MechWarrior and loyal. He took the first Wulfen prototype off the factory and used it to beat a Star Colonel in a Hellbrigner. He did it because said Star Colonel was attacking the Wulfen as a tainted design and attacking Khan Seth Ward over the design. With only an ERLL he beat the Star Colonel.
What a man.
Reading this, my Testosteron has reached a Level so high as never before … :D
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Every time i hear this mechs name Wulfen , i think of that 1980s cheesy-horror films series.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a0/Wolfen_1981.jpg)
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The Wulfen TRO entry helps explain Garner Kerensky some, he's one hell of a skilled MechWarrior and loyal. He took the first Wulfen prototype off the factory and used it to beat a Star Colonel in a Hellbrigner. He did it because said Star Colonel was attacking the Wulfen as a tainted design and attacking Khan Seth Ward over the design. With only an ERLL he beat the Star Colonel.
He has to be loyal . . . instead of being given one of the pincers for Tharkad, Garner was handed the sibbies & abathka of pieced together galaxies to push against the Republic worlds outside the Fortress. Instead, a unblooded warrior who somehow rose to command Beta Galaxy- traditional post of the saKhan, gets one of the pincers . . . unless you want to suggest Seth, Garner and Liam(?) were playing politics and assigning Alaric not just the longer but more difficult path to Tharkad? With Garner's dislike or lack of skill at politics, I am sure he was not in on the plotting as much but simply instructed to not contest it.
Except for how Alaric got to command of Beta- what other Galaxy did the Crusaders have going into their volkwanderung that would have been appropriate for the saKhan?
As far as beating the Hellbringer . . . I mean, its a Hellbringer. It is like being suprised when a Wolfhound beats a Jagermech back in the day.
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But the guy he beat was a Star Colonel. Presumably to reach that rank, and spend any amount of time in a Hellbringer the Star Colonel had to be pretty good.
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Big map, run in and fire,run out. Rinse and repeat. The wulfen is boring to fight...there I said it.
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Yeah, but two hits from Garner goes internal on most Hellbie locations IIRC . . . and if we are supposing a stock Wulfen, it is the B . . . TC, Supercharger, DHS & 6 JJ . . .
Go easy, figure both are veterans . . . the Wulfen walks to 15 hexes away, which means starting 25 hexes for that move, with Stealth Armor on. We do not know what Hellbringer it was, but consider the Prime which if it hits with the ERPPC is going to go internal (seen plenty of people who did not take LPL go for ERPPC vs lights), which means the Wulfen starts out of range and then gets into long . . . So Wulfen needs . . . 2 (gun) +1 (walk) +2 (range) . . . +3 (give the Hellbie the benefit of running) and -1 for TC means Garner hits on a 7. The Star Colonel needs . . . 2 (gun) +2 (run) + 4 (range ERPPC/ERML) . . . +3 (Wulfen movement) . . . +2 (Stealth- Long) means the Hellbringer needs a 13 to hit.
Next turn, kick in the supercharger to get out of range or LOS while cooling down for a long range duel. Rinse & Repeat.
The Wulfen can also kite the Hellbringer by flicking the Stealth Armor on & off every other turn . . . run in under 23 hexes with the Stealth on, run out to 24-25 hexes with Stealth off to still cool while firing.
Foxx, I prefer the HML Wulfen- especially if Ghost Targets are in play.
The Warwolf and Wulfen unfortunately suffer from MWDA dossiers, giving them a lot of Timber Wolf B type configs.
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Big map, run in and fire,run out. Rinse and repeat. The wulfen is boring to fight...there I said it.
Awfully bold words for someone within ERLL Range.
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Awfully bold words for someone within ERLL Range.
Awfully bold statement for someone running out of ERLL range ;)
Do I find it a boring mech? Yes. Is the mech good at what it does? Very much yes. It even looks really cool :-[
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I do not think its boring . . . typical maps always run counter to its expensive abilities. Do you often play battlefields that let a 10/15 mech really use that run speed to get up the modifiers? Do you play battlefields where it can manage to keep at long range from enemies to get that combined +6 TH? Most canon configs require delicate heat management b/c they were cribbed from MWDA where that was not needed.
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I do not think its boring . . . typical maps always run counter to its expensive abilities. Do you often play battlefields that let a 10/15 mech really use that run speed to get up the modifiers? Do you play battlefields where it can manage to keep at long range from enemies to get that combined +6 TH? Most canon configs require delicate heat management b/c they were cribbed from MWDA where that was not needed.
Me and restless play on 65x65 maps..often our average map size is 45x45. I once chased it for 25 turns in a executioner :D. I've had to opfor against it many times and it's a little Surat if you don't take advantage of it's heat profile at the right time.
Honestly it's a good mech so I'm not hating, I just find it lacks some jazz. Plus I wanted to rib you wolves a little ;)
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Ah, I build 32x32 that can network- usually a 3x3 of those, or 96x96 hex map . . . BUT for table top, most folks are doing 32x33 at best.
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Ah, I build 32x32 that can network- usually a 3x3 of those, or 96x96 hex map . . . BUT for table top, most folks are doing 32x33 at best.
The only problem I see in the wulfen is it's too damn good at it's job and the bears don't build it. I would love to replace the firemoth with it but that's me.
My favorite big map in megamek is sudaten, I call it the assault mech humbler for personal reasons. I'm also a fan of rick dom dam, aleksandr once almost got a nice surprise ambush by hiding in the water till someone turned on magscan.
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Yeah, get a 96x96 map and the trinary vs a IS battalion in the invasion works out a bit better.
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Yeah, get a 96x96 map and the trinary vs a IS battalion in the invasion works out a bit better.
My Rogue wolves assault nova has a star of hueys in it just for those situations! I have a hard time playing them now since the campaigns been going on for over a decade and their so op skill wise it's boring.
Biggest map I played on was two 80x60 I think. Kojak and I basically spent 12 hours a day for almost a week playing regiment on regiment.
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Its not even artillery . . . I would run a Wolf supernova binary against a IS reg BN with two companies of vehicles in support . . . granted its the bot, but given those numbers and a aggressive setting they will come after you . . . I was able to shift left, shift right basically play the matador . . . and it worked b/c of a new interpretation of zell on my part.
Each Clan mech claimed multiple IS machines at a time to engage- vehicles were freebies- and so at one time a single Omni might be tracking and engaging a lance of IS mechs. IS mech wants to hide behind a hill or smoke where I have no LOS? Well, odds are I have LOS to something . . . and if not, I will claim another undeclared mech.
It is a good solution to the challenge-hide-unchallenged rush IS tactic. And let me rip through the battalion- half destroyed, lance of vehicles left, half company retreating and roughly a company still in the fight for a golden BB against a Garg and the loss of a arm on a TW . . . though I did lose 4 points of Elementals.
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The only problem I see in the wulfen is it's too damn good at it's job and the bears don't build it. I would love to replace the firemoth with it but that's me.
My favorite big map in megamek is sudaten, I call it the assault mech humbler for personal reasons. I'm also a fan of rick dom dam, aleksandr once almost got a nice surprise ambush by hiding in the water till someone turned on magscan.
Perhaps the new configurations in the Rec Guide will make the Fire Moth more interesting for you. The I & J are two of the more interesting ones I think.
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Perhaps the new configurations in the Rec Guide will make the Fire Moth more interesting for you. The I & J are two of the more interesting ones I think.
I'm waiting for them to be compiled for Pod. Tell me more of this!! I like the firemoth but I'm no Aletha Kabrinski in one.
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I'm waiting for them to be compiled for Pod. Tell me more of this!! I like the firemoth but I'm no Aletha Kabrinski in one.
The Fire Moth hasn't been published yet.
But Aletha Kabrinski does have her own config, ERLL, ECM, 3x ERSL
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The Fire Moth hasn't been published yet.
But Aletha Kabrinski does have her own config, ERLL, ECM, 3x ERSL
That's my favorite configuration for it as well. Well shucks think I might break down and buy that rec guide when it comes out. *Looks around* I'll even admit I'm fond of the Dasher II.
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The only problem I see in the wulfen is it's too damn good at it's job and the bears don't build it. I would love to replace the firemoth with it but that's me.
My favorite big map in megamek is sudaten, I call it the assault mech humbler for personal reasons. I'm also a fan of rick dom dam, aleksandr once almost got a nice surprise ambush by hiding in the water till someone turned on magscan.
My only problem with the Wulfen is that it is too close to my proposed Firefox replacement, so that isn't going to happen.
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Firefox sounds like a name to me should be given to a Aerospace OmniFighter. ;)
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Sigh. My new phone is still being trained... Bad phone bad.
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Spoiler for Icons of War
Well, that explains what Garner was up to. Nice.
Another excellent installment in the fiction. It was nice to see a focus on Free Guilds, Organized Dark Caste, and the Ebon Keshik. I had thought the Free Guilds all but forgotten about. Can't recall the last time i saw anything official mention them.
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I was going to say the same thing about the ending.
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The McKenna's Pride definitely will go quite a ways to redressing the balance between the Wolf and Jade Falcon Warship Fleets. Also, it seems likely Garner learned of the the Pride's presence in the IS from Katherine Wolf nee Steiner-Davion. That may have been the piece of information that raised her standing in Clan Wolf after Vlad's death. The hunt for the whereabouts of the Pride is likely an interesting story in its own right.
Also, I like the way the story was handled, because it could very well have opened some plot holes, but all of the obvious ones were neatly wrapped up.
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Garmen deserved better.
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Considering the Republic Wolves settled into enclaves with civilians and raised natural born children of trueborns . . . it worked out for him possibly.
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I feel like that was loosely implied.
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*Sets aside a finished copy of Children* Well, that was intense. We stand on the cusp, Trothkin. From here forward we tread entirely fresh ground. I cannot wait :D
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Fresh ground is awesome!
I can't help but feel that some more DA stuff has been retconned, but I'll have to check. Nothing major, but it was nagging at the back of my mind as I was reading.
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Hark! The IlClan cometh.
The Wolves either become it, or they baptize it in laser fire.
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Fresh ground is awesome!
No doubt. I wrote (and submitted 60 days ago) a Wolf story that ends at about the same point that Rock of the Republic ends.
I can write a sequel, but I have to wait for the plot to advance first.
Fresh ground, indeed!
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*Sets aside a finished copy of Children* Well, that was intense. We stand on the cusp, Trothkin. From here forward we tread entirely fresh ground. I cannot wait :D
I wonder where we're going to see the new equipment show up, a TRO-type product or something else
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I wonder where we're going to see the new equipment show up, a TRO-type product or something else
I hope so. This No New Stuff but one mech thing killing me.
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Yes the Mckenna's Pride will come as a shock to all. Wonder if the Wolf watch picked up on the warship construction going on in the Falcon zone. Sounds like the some clans went back to building warships. Bears, Falcons, who else?
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Yes the Mckenna's Pride will come as a shock to all. Wonder if the Wolf watch picked up on the warship construction going on in the Falcon zone. Sounds like the some clans went back to building warships. Bears, Falcons, who else?
Ravens, hopefully. MOAR ORBITAL BOMBARDMENT!
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Ravens, hopefully. MOAR ORBITAL BOMBARDMENT!
I would second this. >:D
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Ravens, hopefully. MOAR ORBITAL BOMBARDMENT!
I would think the Ravens have their hands full with keeping all reactivated ships operational. I mean they have nearly 20-30 ships mothballed I would assume that Quatre Belle is overworked at that point.
And the Mckenna's Pride is back in IS space? What happened there? The last mention was in the Wars of Reaving when it fought over New Kent and then it returned to Strana Mechty.
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I would think the Ravens have their hands full with keeping all reactivated ships operational. I mean they have nearly 20-30 ships mothballed I would assume that Quatre Belle is overworked at that point.
And the Mckenna's Pride is back in IS space? What happened there? The last mention was in the Wars of Reaving when it fought over New Kent and then it returned to Strana Mechty.
Icons of War happened. If you can't steal only the great founder, just take the whole ship to the is.
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Trying to read divided we fall. The opening trial made me nearly delete the book it's so bad.
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Trying to read divided we fall. The opening trial made me nearly delete the book it's so bad.
Lol . . . well . . .
Out of curiosity, what about it?
Children-
New Bear mech
2 New Wolf mechs, both loaded with symbolism- Arthur & Aethelwolf both poignant symbols
new BA- finalized with the Wolves, but maybe the Bears put them out
'new' dropship class, 'Piledriver'
Republic mis-identifies a real warship for armed DS? Said the Dire Wolf was in first wave, but they called it a jumpship- and it was not needed, 5 collars? The Crusader Wolves had two 3 collar jumpships.
. . . and we got a mention of that new class/ship- the Warspite . . . but nothing about it. ALso did they build new Star League designs?
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What I liked about Children: (Spoilers for Children and other recent plot-forward materials)
- I like how Alaric is building up a best-of-the-best and pulling in other clans so they have a path to participation in the future the ilClan brings about.
- I like the big Wolfpack reuinion that is brewing. The notion of a Clan Wolf reunited with the Exiles and the Dragoons has always appealed to me. The forces that Shrapnel #1 implied are being raked in by the Steel Wolf Diaspora are interesting too, though the methods they're using do not sit as comfortably with me.
- I like Chase Vickers
- I like the notion of transforming the Fidelis back into the Smoke Jaguars, to show the hollowness of the 2nd Star League's supposed victory.
- I like Alaric's "No one messes with a clan but another clan" speech, and the desire for retribution against the combine for their crimes.
- Slipping in the automated message from Vlad Ward when Alaric visited Terra. I liked that.
What I have mixed feelings on:
- Shattered Fortress seemed to be setting up for an orderly trial, a contest of strength for a clan to prove their mettle against the Republic's forces, and then for that clan to Absorb the Republic. This seemed to be the direction we were headed, and I had just talked myself into accepting the idea of absorbing the republic rather than gutting it. You would certainly come out stronger that way, and it would explain why the 3250 blurbs spoke of the office of the archon still existing. THAT SAID, my true feelings about the republic and the way it embodies many of the things I like the least about the dark age means that if they're foolish enough to choose the path of repulsing us in earnest, instead of a civilized trial, well hey, bring on the piledrivers. I shall savor condemning those who spurn the path of unity, into the dark depths they deserve.
- The Fidelis. While I like the idea of ressurecting the Jaguars, it feels almost... too easy? I would have atleast liked to see them submit after being beaten in a proper fight. But hey, not going to argue with something that advances the plot, not going to insist we drag our feet here.
- On the matter of Jaguars, it would be hypocritical of me to make too big a deal of their being softened, since I always did tend to play my Jaguar characters similarly, but I feel like they're portrayed a bit differently in recent materials than they were in the canon material of decades ago.
- While I agree that the Mongol Falcons are a far greater threat in the current moment, I feel weird about the notion of a Clan Smoke Jaguar on good terms with Clan Wolf. I have always felt like the Wolves took their rivalry with the Jaguars more seriously, and historically the Falcon feud was weighed more towards the Falcon side of things, with the Wolves paying them a whole lot less mind than the Falcons did the Wolves. I'll miss beating up on angry angry jaguars, if that's the future ahead.
- More mech designs. It may not feel like it, since we have had them since 2013, but era-wise, this ought to be time for the Wulfen, the Warwolf, and the Tomahawk II to shine. Perhaps even the Skinwalker, though I'm uncertain what quantities we'll ever see that in. When we got them in the 3145 TROs, they were just starting to proliferate, and already we're rushing in with the Dominator, and the Amarok, and the Arthur and the Aethelwolf? Me, I'd have been a little more restrained with a flood of new designs. the Class of 3145 needs time to shine. But hey, far be it from me to complain about having options. Just so long as the new ones don't push out the others.
What feels weird to me:
- Some of the stepping backwards and inserting new characters into the earlier dark age felt odd to me. Not bad, just odd. It reads less weird, I imagine, if you're getting your 3130's info from a sourcebook, and not the old fiction, but having followed that fiction, I'm left with a bit of a feeling of "wait, where were these people when that was happening?" nbd though.
- Anastasia Kerensky's behaviors and personality will never not feel odd to me. She's been written so many different ways by so many different authors, that I don't know if she'll ever not feel disjointed to me.
And finally, I'm not really even sure how to categorize it, but I did chuckle at Alaric using a Tundra Wolf in one of his fights. It felt a little bit like an intentional statement of "Hey, these Dark Age designs are still around" in an inversion of the way some of the books showcased Invasion Omnis still in use in the dark age as an intentional statement of "Hey, these classic designs are still around too"
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I felt Verena's inclusion was really missing. Bonfire showed how much she taught him about how the Spheriods think and their motivations b/c he learned about love from her. Anastasia joining the Cult of Alaric is off- while she was his bondswoman yes she was going to be subservient but she had previously considered herself his peer. Addressing the gathered Wolves as trueborns when the majority would have been Clan freeborns and abathka from the creation of the Empire. The Dire Wolf going in with Wave 1 when it was just the 2 JS and 6 Piledrivers . . .
Cynthy is as sick as Malvina who created her- she manipulated Malvina into killing a DS crewman. She has not been a shrinking violet. Malvina has not physically abused her, Cynthy replaced Aleks in her emotional hole.
I really wonder if the Aethelwolf is a production version of the Ryoken III/Skinwalker project. It would make sense in regards to Chance's excitement about the design and the Wolves need for a Med Omni even if they had gotten Warden Wolf Ice Ferrets. Both new designs are for symbolism though b/c of their name . . . Arthur restoring the golden age of Camelot, and Aethelwolf using Alfred's work to create a united England instead of 4 or 5 Saxon kingdoms.
Yeah, the Jaguar return feels off . . . But if the Wolves absorb the Falcons and need a Clan to take over each House as Alaric envisions we have the Bears with the Dominion, Cats with League, Horses . .Cappies?, Ravens are in the Periphery . . . well the Jags can be punishment on the Dracs, with Alaric taking the Suns & Commonwealth thrones directly.
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Cynthy is as sick as Malvina who created her- she manipulated Malvina into killing a DS crewman. She has not been a shrinking violet. Malvina has not physically abused her, Cynthy replaced Aleks in her emotional hole.
Her writing reminds me a lot of Anastasia's. I can't really fault anyone who has a given impression of her, because she's been portrayed inconsistently. Is she terrified? is she malicious? is she both? That said, my personal take on her jives with yours.
I really wonder if the Aethelwolf is a production version of the Ryoken III/Skinwalker project. It would make sense in regards to Chance's excitement about the design and the Wolves need for a Med Omni even if they had gotten Warden Wolf Ice Ferrets.
Maybe. Personally I'd still like to see a medium medium, BUT with IRCG 6, we DO get the Linebacker in production on Zosma along with the Dominator. Which, if we do not get anything else, will serve for a Medium in spirit, if not a medium in weight. If we DO see a "mass production grade skinwalker" I will be intensely curious how it gets done. I've tried and I just keep going "Well damn, I'm back at the stormcrow"
Both new designs are for symbolism though b/c of their name . . . Arthur restoring the golden age of Camelot, and Aethelwolf using Alfred's work to create a united England instead of 4 or 5 Saxon kingdoms.
And, along with the Amarok, we've got a lot of A-Names in play.
Yeah, the Jaguar return feels off . . .'
I'm not opposed to it, really. I just thought it was a little odd how it went down. A little too cordial, y'know?
The absolute irony being that Alaric is all "Under my watch the annihilation of the jaguars would never have happened" while it was Vlad, whom he admires, who hung the Jaguars out to dry when it did happen. I think Aleksandr put it best when I was talkin to him about it, said that if he had KNOWN the jaguars he might have felt differently.
But if the Wolves absorb the Falcons and need a Clan to take over each House as Alaric envisions we have the Bears with the Dominion, Cats with League, Horses . .Cappies?, Ravens are in the Periphery . . . well the Jags can be punishment on the Dracs, with Alaric taking the Suns & Commonwealth thrones directly.
I don't know that I'd absorb the Falcons. I feel like a shattered Clan Jade Falcon, freed of Malvina Hazen could be a useful political ally, dependent on the Wolves and their leadership of the ilClan to shield the Falcons from absorbtion while they rebuild their strength. At the same time, with the Fidelis developments, Clan Smoke Jaguar could serve much the same purpose of getting the ball rolling on clan involvement in the League.
For what it's worth, also, the FRR isn't a great house, so the Ghost Bears may or may not be done with just Rasalhague. I could make a case for them breaking the Combine, and I could make a case for them being tapped for the Capellan Confederation, given that Jorgensson was Rasalhague and Tseng was Capellan. It'd be a nice mirror for a Wolf governed FedCom, a GB RasCon.
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I have no stake in that particular fight, but I don't understand how anything could 'feel weird' about the relationship between Wolf and Jaguar compared to any of the Invasion/Serpent-era happenings, considering that except for Literally Just Paul Moon every single person who would reasonably have any experience in Wolf/Jag relations has been dead for decades, if not the better party of a century.
It feels akin to complaining that the US and UK hated each other during the War of 1812, why would they team up for this Great War? Makes no sense.
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Oh, I was not expecting animosity . . . just the way back into IS Clan society.
Hmm, then again it is the Homies who would worry about the Fidelis/Jags not being 'Clan' enough . . . or . . . tainted.
One other interesting thing, it does not seem Alaric is aware the Scorpions are still kicking.
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There are real world examples of grudges and impressions of groups of people lasting well beyond the conflict that created those impressions. I can't cite them in specific on the forums, but they're out there.
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There are real world examples of grudges and impressions of groups of people lasting well beyond the conflict that created those impressions. I can't cite them in specific on the forums, but they're out there.
Of course there are. There are just as many if not more of the kind I provided an example of, and those take place in nations where the ruling class doesn't turnover five times more quickly.
I'd be very surprised if any living Wolf gave a single solitary shit about what their relationship to the Smoke Jaguars was almost a hundred years ago. That history was well and truly meaningless until the two met again.
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Yeah, the Jaguar return feels off...
It’s off to me because the surviving Jags and their descendants consciously swore off their Jag way of life and identities, committed themselves to a new purpose, and underwent a grueling transformation to pull it off. And now... poof... they’re ready to be Jags again because there’s an ilClan?
It would make more sense if the former Jags transferred their loyalty from the RotS to the ilClan and continued in their role as a spec ops arm of the ilClan’s SLDF (whatever form that takes).
But if the Wolves absorb the Falcons
I’d rather the Wolves (and Republic) annihilate the Falcons, with the Falcon survivors setting up (Bandit Caste?) shop among the ruins of the old Rim Worlds Republic.
The Wolf-Republic storyline is shaping up as rather anticlimactic. Instead a formal, fait accompli trial for leadership of Terra and the Republic, I’d rather Stone and the Republic act more Machiavellian, use the Wolves to eliminate the Falcon threat, then turn on the Wolves when they’re weak, and then have the Wolves come out on top in the resulting Wolf/RotS war. Those kinds of machinations seem more Stone-like and are also higher risk for the Wolves, better earning them the title of ilClan.
and need a Clan to take over each House as Alaric envisions we have the Bears with the Dominion, Cats with League, Horses . .Cappies?, Ravens are in the Periphery . . . well the Jags can be punishment on the Dracs, with Alaric taking the Suns & Commonwealth thrones directly.
My head-cannon says this makes the most sense:
Precipitating Events — As Falcons, Wolves, and even Bears draw close to remaining RotS worlds, Stone recognizes the small RotS military cannot stand against the coming storm and seeks to control the outcome by allying with the most acceptable of these Clans. Burned by Stone’s Not-Named machinations, the Bears rebuff his offer. So Stone turns to the Wolves. Alaric accepts Stone’s offer, gathers the greater Wolf military family together, secures warship support from Ravens, obtains mobile industrial support from Foxes, and jumps to Terra with the Republic’s assistance through the Wall.
Falcon Annihilation and Lyran Commonwealth — The Falcons commit some unforgivable atrocity in their drive on Terra, on top of Malvina’s prior craziness. The Wolves and Republic seek and obtain the Council of Six’s vote for a Trial of Annihilation against the Falcons. The LCAF and Horses join the Wolf touman and RotS forces against Falcons. Already torn apart by war, the Commonwealth is further devastated by the ensuing battles, as well as the Falcons’ scorched-earth retreat to the Periphery. Of course, Malvina dies at Cynthy’s hand, initiating the final Falcon withdrawal into the former Rim Worlds. Most of the Steiner line is eliminated in the fighting and the survivors go into hiding with Loki/Heimdall. Alaric claims, eliminates, or is given the Archonship in ensuing Lyran leadership vacuum.
Stone’s Treachery and Republic of the Sphere — After the Falcons have retreated to the former Rim Worlds, Stone turns of the Wolves and tries to decapitate their leadership using his former Jag spec ops forces. Attempt largely fails minus some injuries/deaths (Garner Kerensky), and RotS forces retreat behind the now useless Wall. Alaric musters surviving Wolves, Horses, and LCAF backed by Fox/Raven industrial/naval support for the Republic campaign. Clan fury is ignited when they uncover evidence that the unforgivable Falcon atrocity was actually engineered by Stone and committed by RotS forces. The now Council of Five declares another Trial of Annihilation against the RotS. RotS pulls lots of cards out of its sleeves, but the writing is on the wall when even the Bears join in the slaughter. Stone recognizes his mistake and seeks to spare Terra with a final, formal Trial of Possession on the Russian steppes around Moscow, a trial which would also determine the ilClan if the Clan that wins the bid also succeeds against Stone. In a bit of subterfuge, Anastasia Kerensky bids for the Wolves instead of Alaric, while Alaric bids the smallest force with elements of the best of each Clan. Anastasia personally saves Alaric on the steppes so that Alaric can kill Stone and win the Trial of Possession with his multi-Clan force.
ilKhan — Having landed on Terra first at the Republic’s invitation and having led multi-Clan forces in both the Falcon and RotS annihilations, the Council of Five ratifies the Wolves as ilClan and dissolves. As ilClan, the Wolves have with the power to appoint the ilKhan. Alaric declines the office, declares a rotating ilKhanship, and appoints a Ghost Bear Khan to better further the recovery and integration of Clan and Spheroid populations. A multi-cluster Keshik is created for the ilKhanship with contributions from each of the Clans and willing RotS survivors. A former Jag leader is the first commander of the ilKhan’s Keshik. The ilKhan’s Keshik serves as a small-scale SLDF, protecting the ilKhan, Terra, and surrounding worlds. Terra’s resources and industrial might are rapidly lashed to advanced Clan technologies and efficiency, fueling an expansive agenda of Clan conquest over the remaining Successor States in the ensuing years and decades. The restoration of Spheroid communications from Gray Monday using Clan HPGs accelerates the conquest.
Federated Suns — Now aware of his true parentage, Alaric leads the Wolves in one last campaign to conquer the Federated Suns. Although debilitated by major losses to the Combine and Confederation, the battlefield prowess of the AFFS proves a difficult challenge, especially as the Wolves are conducting this campaign alone. Alaric dies in the assault on New Avalon, never quite reclaiming his heritage. The Wolves largely complete the conquest in Alaric’s memory, reducing the Federated Suns to a rump state in the Outback, where a petty First Prince and the surviving Davion line are careful in the decades ahead not to tempt the Wolves into finishing their conquest and focus most of their attention on a resurgent Taurian Concordat. Petty Draconis March and Capellan March states also remain along the borders where stretched Wolf/Bear/Raven and Wolf/Horse toumans do not fully complete their conquests.
Draconis Combine — The DCMS interferes with the Wolf conquest of the Federated Suns, which the Bear ilKhan uses as a pretext for an invasion of the Draconis Combine. With their spinward flank secured by the events of the Falcon annihilation, the Bears take advantage of the opportunity to launch most of their touman anti-spinward against the Combine. They coordinate with the Ravens on the other side of the Combine, who similarly open a spinward front against the Combine. The campaign is a long and increasingly bitter one as the DCMS fights to the last man and employs ever more desperate measures against the two clans. But the weight of the Bears combined with the naval power of the Ravens in this massive pincer is ultimately irresistible. After New Samarkand is conquered, the surviving Kurita line goes into hiding among the yakuza, and the Dominion’s Rasalhagian Prince takes over civilian rulership of the Dominion’s spoils in the Combine. The Raven Alliance rules their spoils from Alpheratz. With much work ahead of them integrating Combine and Clan culture, the Bears and Ravens pay little attention to the former Rasalhagian and Combine Periphery border, where a few petty, breakaway states arise and combine with bandit kingdoms across the border.
Free Worlds League — With one Aimag already integrated into the leadership of a Free Worlds state, the other Sea Fox Khanates and Aimags seek to duplicate their success and turn their attention to the other Free Worlds states in the ilClan era. Unlike the Combine and Suns, the Foxes make no formal declaration of war and conduct no coordinated campaign against the League as a whole. Rather, the Foxes take advantage of the League’s balkanization to divide and conquer, with individual Khanates and Aimags taking control of individual League states through combinations of economic integration, diplomatic bargaining, embargoes, and outright military invasion. After the FWLM is dissolved and the conquest of Atreus and Marik is complete, the Marik line disperses to the few League states along the Periphery border that remain beyond the reach of the Foxes.
Capellan Confederation — Having moved halfway across the Inner Sphere to fight the Falcons and Republic and not wishing to return to their poor near-Periphery holdings squeezed between two other powerful Clans, the Horses set their sights on the Capellan Confederation. The Horses’ combined arms are a good match for the CCAF’s unorthodox and asymmetric tactics. No matter what the Capellans try, the Horses have an answer. Eventually the Horses claim the entirety of the Confederation and the Liao line goes into exile among their relations in the Magistracy of Canopus. They are the last Great House to fall from power.
ilClan — Anastasia Kerensky assumes the Wolf Khanship after Alaric’s death on New Avalon. Regularly shuttling between New Avalon and Tharkad, she stops at Terra to appoint a new ilKhan when the office comes due every X years. But Anastasia rarely appoints a Wolf to the ilKhanship and never appoints a Kerensky, including herself. Instead, Kerensky Wolf Khans remain the power behind the ilKhanship, using the bully pulpit of the ilClan, the power of two former Successor States, the battlefield prowess of the Wolves, and the inherited wisdom of the Great Father to maintain a measure of peace and prosperity for as long as possible in the Inner Sphere. War continues, but whether Solaris VII games, resurrected Martial Olympiads, Clan Trials, or bandit hunts, it is a formalized and limited affair. For now...
Epilogue — Khan Anastasia is approached in her old age by a surprise envoy from the Homeworlds, which have been out of contact for decades. The envoy represents “House Cameron”, Iron Womb descendants of Jennifer Winson/Amanda Cameron’s giftake who seek to restore the old Star League and the Cameron family’s rule over it. The envoy seeks the cooperation of Alexander Kerensky’s descendant. Anastasia shoots the envoy in the face and orders her aide to summon the ilKhan on the HPG command circuit. Strange reports have been coming in from the rump states and bandit kingdoms along each Clan’s borders. It is time to prepare for another war...
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Ok, I'm a Stone Lion fan, and until recently, a Horse fan.
What is the smallest raiding size would you use today, 3150, vs. Jihad?
I saw Binary, but what's your favorite?
TT
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It’s off to me because the surviving Jags and their descendants consciously swore off their Jag way of life and identities, committed themselves to a new purpose, and underwent a grueling transformation to pull it off. And now... poof... they’re ready to be Jags again because there’s an ilClan?
Yeah, I forgot to mention this but . . . MWDA novels, the Fidelis hated the other Clans, or at least gave that impression.
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Ok, I'm a Stone Lion fan, and until recently, a Horse fan.
What is the smallest raiding size would you use today, 3150, vs. Jihad?
I saw Binary, but what's your favorite?
TT
I like a Nova for a small raiding force. Lots of elementals to assist in dragging home somebody else's goodies.
BTW... why don't you like the Horses anymore?
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Yeah, I forgot to mention this but . . . MWDA novels, the Fidelis hated the other Clans, or at least gave that impression.
A few things to remember one none of us know the outcome and two Alaric may be wrong about the Wolves in Exile and the Fidelis. Just because it worked out for him in this book doesn’t mean it will work out for him in the end.
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A few things to remember one none of us know the outcome and two Alaric may be wrong about the Wolves in Exile and the Fidelis. Just because it worked out for him in this book doesn’t mean it will work out for him in the end.
Dude, they had injectors as part of their equipment to wreck their DNA and engaged in fanatical attacks on the Falcons and later Wolves IIRC. They treated them worse than the other factions tearing at the Republic.
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Dude, they had injectors as part of their equipment to wreck their DNA and engaged in fanatical attacks on the Falcons and later Wolves IIRC. They treated them worse than the other factions tearing at the Republic.
I am talking about “Children of Kerensky” where we see everything going right for Alaric. I see moments like these and wonder when is the other shoe going to drop.
The Fidelis also abandoned the caste system so my question is do they want to fit in with the other clans or do they have something else planned that the readers don’t currently see.
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BTW... why don't you like the Horses anymore?
I still do, but they've been tamed too much. I liked the idea of supporting the warror, not the machine concept. Mechs maybe the King, Artillery the Queen, but it's the grunts in Armor that's a real backbone. Infantry plays second fiddle to that, augmented or not. I like warships, but who doesn't? Besides, I still got Zeta Galaxy, I mean, it's not like the 666th Mech. Assault Cluster, Beta Galaxy. But still CHH values... with a new clan name!
Sure it's small, but it got's flava. And it has since gambled alot and won. Lost some too, but stuck it out.
I'll always have a soft spot for CHH, but CSL is looking good now. Until we have a defined look, I'll be plotting along now.
Hope that answers your question.
TT
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I still do, but they've been tamed too much. I liked the idea of supporting the warror, not the machine concept. Mechs maybe the King, Artillery the Queen, but it's the grunts in Armor that's a real backbone. Infantry plays second fiddle to that, augmented or not. I like warships, but who doesn't? Besides, I still got Zeta Galaxy, I mean, it's not like the 666th Mech. Assault Cluster, Beta Galaxy. But still CHH values... with a new clan name!
Sure it's small, but it got's flava. And it has since gambled alot and won. Lost some too, but stuck it out.
I'll always have a soft spot for CHH, but CSL is looking good now. Until we have a defined look, I'll be plotting along now.
Hope that answers your question.
TT
Personally I am waiting to see what the Clan Hell’s Horses are going to do with the Clan Jade Falcon territory. Especially after what happened in the alliance between the two factions CHH might be chomping at the bit to take more territory the only thing stopping them is to take it with as little bloodshed as possible.
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I am talking about “Children of Kerensky” where we see everything going right for Alaric. I see moments like these and wonder when is the other shoe going to drop.
The Fidelis also abandoned the caste system so my question is do they want to fit in with the other clans or do they have something else planned that the readers don’t currently see.
The discussion was about how the Fidelis were changed from their initial representation. They hated the Clans as a whole, it was commented on that they fought ferociously against them compared to other enemies, and they took steps to hide their DNA from any recovery.
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Children of Kerensky has two new wolf mechs?
EDITED: Looks like I found my answer.
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Well, Mordred has more right to use an Arthur 'mech than .....Edward?
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I'd be very surprised if any living Wolf gave a single solitary shit about what their relationship to the Smoke Jaguars was almost a hundred years ago. That history was well and truly meaningless until the two met again.
They still care quite a bit about the not-named, and that was far longer ago. You might say that that was a pivotal influence on ALL the clans, and you're right, but I would say that the envy of the jade falcons and the rivalry with the smoke jaguars was an influence upon Clan Wolf for the vast majority of the clan's history.
Who probably doesn't give a damn about Jaguars, are the Spheroids the clan has absorbed. But those who grew up learning from the clan are going to atleast know of the clans of yore, they're going to know who was a friend and who was a foe historically.
Edit:
Another thing occurred to me. Think like a warrior culture, where matters of honor are among other purposes, around to have an excuse to fight over things. When fighting is the pulse of your society, you need reasons to fight. In this regard, Sports Teams rivalries are a better analogue than anything else. I live surrounded by die hard packer fans who have eternal grudges against the Vikings and the Bears, not because of who those teams are composed of, but because they are the Vikings and they are the Bears, and Eff Those Guys. If suddenly every man in a bears jersey put on the green and gold, and every packer donned a bears uniform, the attiude would not shift a single milimeter, it would still be Home Team Good, Those Guys Next Door Bad. Or the Michigan/Ohio feud which has transferred into sports because of an entirely unrelated to sports land dispute ages ago. None of the teams in this day and age havre anything to do with that, nor have they ever, but the rivalry is real, and it is fierce.
For the same reasons, the same part of the human psyche turned up to 11 in the clans, I would expect to see a Wolf see a Falcon or a Jaguar as a rival or foe, I would expect the Dragoons, to never have agreed to work for the combine the way they have, and I would expect to see a coyote from the homeworlds who's never met a wolf in his life, to see the Wolves as his lost brothers.
and it's not even limited to the Clans. When was the last time you heard a capellan go "Oh, all of the people who knew capellan citizenship on that world have died out, all of their grandchildren have died out, the world means nothing to us anymore"
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They still care quite a bit about the not-named, and that was far longer ago. You might say that that was a pivotal influence on ALL the clans, and you're right, but I would say that the envy of the jade falcons and the rivalry with the smoke jaguars was an influence upon Clan Wolf for the vast majority of the clan's history.
I'm going to go out on a very short limb and suggest that the reason the Clans still care about the Wolverines is because they were, ultimately, anathema to Clan society and there's a very good reason that they're remembered as such. The Jaguars were just a Clan.
That said, this line of conversation started because you remarked that it felt weird that Jaguar and Wolf would get on as well as they did; comparisons to the Wolverines don't seem particularly useful for that. Much more importantly why would Alaric, specifically care about what the Jaguars were almost 80 years before he was born?
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Much more importantly why would Alaric, specifically care about what the Jaguars were almost 80 years before he was born?
You will agree, yes, that Vlad Ward was a somewhat important figure to Alaric, yeah? Never knew him, but it would be safe to say he reveres Vlad, would it not?
And, when the Jaguar, on death's door, comes humbly to the Grand Council begging their help, which Khan was it who stood up and said "LOL No, go sleep in the bed you have made"? That's right. Vladimir Ward.
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The fact that you had to phrase that in the form of a series of leading questions tells me that it's very much a personal theory made manifest in this thread and not actually any indication of what has or hasn't happened in the text.
Which is fine; go off king. I just definitely don't see why that'd make Wolf and Jaguar weird.
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I do not think the weird part would be from the Wolf side . . . like I said, the Fidelis seemed to have a hate on from the MWDA novels.
Then again, with mechs identified with characters suddenly replaced, characters who act different ways, not a stretch for the faction to change like that since their debut.
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Edit: Nevermind, I just read it.
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The fact that you had to phrase that in the form of a series of leading questions tells me that it's very much a personal theory made manifest in this thread and not actually any indication of what has or hasn't happened in the text.
Just stepping you through my thought process since you can't seem to see how I'd possibly see things this way. Alaric has very much spoken of Vlad with reverence, as well as Victor and Kathrine. Both Victor and Vlad had pivotal roles in the fall of the Jaguars. It IS in the text. Do I need to dig out my copies of Twilight of The Clans, transcribe some of the scene where Vlad ensures the Jaguars get no help from the other Clans? or cite lines where Alaric holds Vlad in high regard?
So, the Wolf Rememberance certainly gets taught to sibkos, and the Smoke Jaguars have fought against
Which is fine; go off king.
Come now, this is the clans, shouldnt that be Khan? ;p
I just definitely don't see why that'd make Wolf and Jaguar weird.
Frankly, I think the argument ought to be justifying why the grudge would go away. There's as much set down in Canon Text before Children of Kerensky to support your entirely unofficial interpretation as there is to support my unofficial interpretation. But, since I get the feeling we'll never convince the other from this angle how about we take a more meta approach?
The characters may have changed, but the players are largely the same. Many of the people playing wolf today will have played wolf yesterday. And I feel really weird about no longer seeing the jaguars as a rival. Mind you, I have WONDERFUL memories of playing as a Jaguar too, I would hate to see a faction wiped out just because they're my in character foe, but I also hate to lose those ancient rivalries and friendships. But hey, maybe I'm the only one who enjoys the Wolf's vigorous rivalry with the Smoke Jaguars, and the Falcons envy of the founder choosing the Wolf, and the Kerensky brotherhood binding Clan Coyote and Wolf together.
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Took a Ice Ferret J (4/4), Sojourner D (4/4), Hammerhead (4/4), and a Rabid BA (2/4) into battle against some elite Republic troops . . . everything was fine until my Sojourner caught a gauss slug with its teeth on the 3rd turn. First turn the Locust took a ERPPC from the Sojourner at 10 hexes to a arm. Next turn he shot at the Hammerhead and learned he would be doing half damage . . . Hammerhead started pounding on a Schrek, Sojourner put a ERPPC shot and MPL into the Atlas, with the Ice Ferret J hitting with everything on the Atlas.
Unfortunately the Atlas connected with its kick stripping the Ice Ferret's leg of armor . . . and it lost the leg the next turn to a PPC hit when racing around behind the Atlas while my Sojourner's pilot went beyond. While 9 of 10 ERSL and both HMGs hit, not enough hit the Torso rear to go internal. The Hammerhead took 2 LRMs and a PPC, but Hardened Armor let it hang in. The BA ended the undamaged Schrek when one of the 16 SRMs hit the front for a critical (2) and then took the fuel (12) . . . by by tank.
Hammerhead got behind the Atlas which backed up to face the Ice Ferret, the BA jumped to the point to be next to the damaged (-1 MP & TC hit) Schrek. Ice Ferret gave the Atlas a fist that resulted in just armor (CT TAC roll missed) but the Atlas was finished by the Hammerhead . . . LPL hit CTR going internal from the previous ERSL damage. ERML hit a side torso, going internal . . . and 3 of the SSRM6s hit the CT Rear. Half the crit rolls hit scored, generating 4 total crits . . . 2 Engine, 1 Gyro, and a Heat Sink . . . the side torso crit generated a single roll- ammo! BOOOM- Atlas is down.
Hammerhead just kept going forward, I did walk 6 hexes for +2 at one point to try to bait the Atlas into firing at the hardened design rather than the Sojourner.
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So my salvage boxes worked out- Gargoyle, Timberwolf, Nova, Executioner, Summoner, Mad Dog, and Grendel with the Dire Wolf Widowmaker as the Legendary pull . . . which until I get a trade means I have 3 Timber Wolves, TW Pryde , 3 Gargoyles, 2 Ice Ferret, Adder, and 2 DW Widowmakers. Those are the absolute Wolf forces, I hope to get another Adder in trade and maybe a plain Dire Wolf. Which means supplementing those Wolf staples I will have a Executioner, Grendel, Summoner, Hellbringer (planning on making it Marco Hall's from 13th Wolf Guards), 2 Mad Dog, Grendel, and 2 Nova . . . plus what is coming along in Wave 2.
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Paint one of the Gargs as Ulric Kerensky's Gagoyle Prime!
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Playing a Refusal War battle I decided to do something different with Tau . . .
With the speed of the five clusters being created, I operated off the assumption that the clusters were filled with equipment stripped out of Wolf Clan caches along with what we know they were buying from other Clans- like the Clint IIC from the Ravens. Which means TRO Golden Century was a gold mine- throw in the Redbacks, Excaliburs, Masauwu, Coyotl, Lupus and more to go with the Star League left overs, Clan standards and even IS refits like the Marauder C makes raising something like 15+ mech trinaries (at least 225 mechs) much more feasible . . . lol, I thought about tossing Rhino armor in for the Elementals.
Tau Galaxy to me also presents interesting opportunites- before the Refusal War shuffle- where Star Captains and Star Commanders who distinguished themselves in the Invasion would have a easier time gaining rank even if they had to shift to a secondline formation. With Tau clusters being elite and veteran as part of Ulric's offensive, it also makes some sense . . . they already have experienced warriors turned officers from Alpha/Beta/Gamma/Delta . . . maybe even the freebirths of Epsilon . . . who form the cadre of Tau. Sprinkle in some warriors saved from solahma and then fill in the rest with the best from the sibkos who were not replacements for the four frontline galaxies and Tau is a solid formation that had 4-5 years working up before the Crusader shuffle. Considering that Natasha & Phelan were running large scale wargames and the Invasion Wolves' OZ was being raided by the IS like the other OZs to forge them into a weapon.
Also had another idea . . . the crappy Garg B and TW B comes from the Woodman B . . . which itself could be said to come from the Excalibur EC which has a Gauss Rifle, LRM20 w/Artemis, ERML, ERSL.
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Paint one of the Gargs as Ulric Kerensky's Gagoyle Prime!
What distinguishes it? The red glow of it being TAGged for the artillery strike? xp
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Pretty much!
Knowing Ulric, it was probably indistinguishable other than that.
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Also had another idea . . . the crappy Garg B and TW B comes from the Woodman B . . . which itself could be said to come from the Excalibur EC which has a Gauss Rifle, LRM20 w/Artemis, ERML, ERSL.
That's an interesting take. I always took them to be intended to be Orion-esque, given the Orion's importance to clan wolf. Orion IIc is Gauss, LRM-20, 2x ER Large 1x SRM-4.
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To let the Jag talk have their thread . . . -
Judging from Wolf assets in the homeworlds, it's not just close but is spot on. You're welcome to cite other Wolf galaxies and clusters in the homeworlds. Omega's transfer from the homeworlds, and the devotion of resources to create Tau, left nothing behind of note (as per FM:CC). As for their manufacturing in the OZ, I didn't say anything about it so I don't understand why you're defensive about it. Though WoR does point out they weren't doing much with it.
Alright, we can run through the math again . . .
Before FMCC/WC we never saw any of the Invader Clan's Home World strength, the ONLY piece mentioned the strength in the Home Worlds afaik is that mentioned in of Omega's 5 galaxies escorting the convoy to the Inner Sphere under Ulric's orders. Which leaves you with the Ghost Bears and oddly enough Jaguars really as the only yardsticks of what was in the OZ vs remaining in the Home Worlds at the time of the invasion. We DO know as Khan Ulric ordered forward 26 clusters who hung out on the Exodus Road waiting for permission for a undetermined time but had been gone from the Home Worlds for the length of time to travel and the Crusaders never noticed enough to let Showers know.
For the Bears, you can easily tally up the totals by comparing the clusters in ICSB vs FMWC- something like 40 clusters IIRC. The Jaguars had 10 clusters on Huntress, their capital holding, along with other size detachments at other places like Tranquil (cluster? 2?) and Kirin, home to the Xerxes factory (2 binaries? trinaries?) but the Jaguars were notoriously understrength across the board since they were constantly bleeding since the two very costly losses of Luthien and Tukayyid. But both were considered first tier powers among the Clans with 60-70 clusters estimated before the Invasion- which means things like the Xerxes factory probably had a cluster of troops before they were picked over for replacement troops & gear.
So . . . for the math, WCSB had Alpha (4 clusters), Beta, Gamma, and Delta (3 clusters each in WCSB) along with the 4 keshiks of two trinaries. Epsilon listed a keshik of 2 trinaries and 4 clusters. BoK and WCSB also mention at least two other frontline clusters that took part in the Invasion though they were not listed as participating in Tukayyid. So by this point we have 15 frontline clusters with roughly another 2 in the Keshiks along with 4.5 secondline clusters . . . 26 garrison clusters in to cover the OZ and at least 5.5 more garrison clusters in the Home Worlds. We are probably missing 2 more frontline clusters and 1 Epsilon garrison cluster as Wolf organizational doctrine seemed to have 4 clusters in frontline galaxies and 5 clusters in secondline/garrison galaxies- Refusal War materials and later Crusader Wolf touman structuring support this position. The reaosn 2 frontline are missing is (Alpha +1) the 13th Wolf Guard were newly raised in 3051 when Natasha became Khan which replaced the Golden Keshik in Alpha since they became the honor guard for the new ilKhan. The Pouncer entry discussed Delta's cluster that did not participate in Tukayyid. All my specific notes for this are at home, and unfortunately the net is down again.
Invasion break down-
Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta- 4.5 frontline clusters (including Keshiks) each
18 frontline cluster
Epsilon & Omega- 5.5 garrison clusters (including Keshiks) each
11 clusters
26 garrison clusters in the OZ (does not include keshiks)- bit over 5 galaxies
2.5 clusters from garrison galaxies' keshiks
Which leaves . . . at least another galaxy in the Homeworlds to match the Jaguars (5.5 clusters) . . .
Total of 63 clusters of strength for the Wolves . . . which still put them a galaxy or more behind the Bears and Falcons for overall strength and maybe parity or a bit smaller Jags. Like in the Refusal War, the Wolves seem to be a skill level up on the Falcons.
The theory, back when this was done for all the invaders with Rage & Albatross, was that the 2 frontline clusters that were not named during the Invasion were to tend to honor matters in the Home Worlds. Perhaps Epsilon's missing 5th cluster remained in the Home Worlds as well or was stationed along the Exodus Road.
Tau Galaxy was built very simply b/c the Wolves did not take the losses of the other Invading Clans, either during the various Waves or at Tukayyid. It is clearly spelled out in Phelan's Trial of Bloodright and during the tensions building up to the trial against Ulric- the new Wolves who left the sibko during/after the Invasion felt they lacked the chance to distinguish themselves leading to their personal advancement which warred with their pride in their Clan. So instead of replacing losses in warriors & material for shattered galaxies on Tukayyid, the Wolves had a surplus of new warriors . . . which they scrounged up equipment from caches (Highlander IIC, perhaps Lupus & Woodsman), had new production (Phantom & Pouncer), salvaged machines (Warhammer C 2), or traded with other Clans using the largess of the Invasion (Clint IIC fluff). Golden Century & RecGuides (Warhammer & Marauder) has given some real gems for 'raiding' the caches to build the new clusters.
IMO, even before Ulric shifted warriors around to fill Tau with Crusaders from Alpha, Beta, Gamma and Delta, it was already almost frontline- it lacked being equipped completely with Omnis and did not have the experience level of the 4 frontline galaxies. Tau clusters had the best from the sibkos that did not end up in the 4 frontline galaxies, staffed with warriors and officers given promotions (or improved status) which provided some experience to the sibbies. The new clusters only experience as formations would be from Natasha & Phelan's war game training or raids from the Inner Sphere against the OZ.
If only Natasha & Phelan had unleashed them against the Falcon's supply build up in the tip of the JFOZ back in '55 or '56.
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To let the Jag talk have their thread . . . -
Alright, we can run through the math again . . .
You're pulling numbers out of thin air, not doing math.
Epsilon and Omega's clusters would count towards the mentioned garrison clusters, just as Theta and Iota's did, and being provisional and never showing up or being mentioned again the rest were probably disbanded to make up for Tukayyid losses or were vehicles and infantry. There was no "at least another galaxy in the Homeworlds" because it was never listed as part of their strength or even mentioned. 63 clusters is pure head canon, even the FMs state the Falcon strength was around 57 pre-Refusal. If it were anywhere near the numbers you seem to think, we wouldn't see Vlad upjumping freebirths and staging harvest trials to scratch together 24 clusters after the Refusal War. The Falcons suffered greater casualties and only lost permanently lost 10 clusters.
Although given the fact you said the count was done with Rage, all the inconsistencies and double-counting starts to make sense...
Heck, we know for a fact that pre-Tau the Wolves had Epsilon, Theta, Iota and Omega running as garrison galaxies. That accounts for 17 or so of the 26 garrison clusters they were said to have. Factor in the fact the Wolves suffered material losses at Tukayyid (after accounting for salvage) of around 7 or 8 clusters worth, we can see what probably happened to the unlisted garrison clusters.
So, not counting keshiks, a Revival strength of around 40-45 confirmed and named clusters and 7-8 confirmed and named galaxies? Adds up and matches what the books and Field Manuals tell us.
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A note in support of Colt's numbers. In Turning Points: Revival Trials It lists the bids for all 17 surviving Clans, except for Wolf who didn't bid, Star Adder who bid their entire touman, and Snow Raven who didn't have enough ground forces to participate in the Invasion and protect their Homeworld possessions. The Ghost Bears' initial bid was 12 Galaxies, the Smoke Jaguars' 11 Galaxies, the Jade Falcons' 10 Galaxies, the other Clans bid 7-9 Galaxies. Assuming the Clans each held 1-2 Galaxies back to guard their Homeworld holdings, then the top 3 Clans each had ~11-14 Galaxies each, and most of the other Clans had 8-11 Galaxies. So TP: Revival Trials is either a retcon, or almost every Clan lost 1-3 Galaxies by the time FM:WC and FM:CC are presenting their information. Considering the Wolf's position among the Clans it seems likely in the light of TP: Revival Trials that Clan Wolf fielded ~10-12 Galaxies prior to the Clan Invasion.
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Epsilon was part of the Wolves' four galaxies they were granted for Revival- not the 26 garrison clusters. Omega NEVER left the Homeworlds UNTIL Ulric ordered them to escort the set up of the Wardens in '57. WCSB ONLY lists the clusters that were on Tukayyid- even through BoK gives us Lajos cluster (not on Tukayyid but frontline) and the Pouncer fluff gives us another Delta cluster that was not on Tukayyid.
You seem to be basing some of your organizational ideas on Objective Raids, a source known to be flawed and must be taken with a grain of salt. Blame IC reporting but they badly misidentified the Epsilon clusters and made a hash of the galaxy organizations. WCSB- and IIRC JFSB & ICSB- do not detail material losses but do identify KIA/WIA with one sort of exception . . . and while the Wolves as a whole did not fair as well as the 13th Wolf Guards (no casualties . . . ) take for example the 328th Assault Cluster . . . 21 total killed out of 55 mechwarriors (11), 100 Elementals (6), and 20 pilots (4). The ONLY material losses you can infer would be the 4 KIA pilots (20%) were lost with their craft instead of breaking their necks climbing out of their cockpits when their ASF was on the ground. Mechwarriors KIA'd are also at 20% with 23 wounded being a bit over 40%. Elemental losses have to be off as they only list the Point Commander.
The Wolves controlled the battlefield and were able to salvage their own machines while the other Clans were not- again, helping to keep their material losses low. Even if you try to assume that a KIA MW equals a destroyed machine, its still a small amount of material losses- and the machines can survive the pilots easily.
You keep wanting to jump around time frames- my analysis was to create a pre-Invasion cluster strength for the Wolves, Jaguars, Falcons and Bears. Your trying to cite the Falcons at 57 cluster pre-Refusal means relatively nothing since they still were rebuilding after Tukayyid and has them down roughly 2 total galaxies. My counts also convert 5 trinaries worth of Keshik into an additional cluster- heck IIRC when we did it we even broke down the frontline clusters supernovas to get straight trinaries/binaries worth of strength. The Refusal War itself is problematic . . . authors conveniently forgot about a third of the frontline clusters (Delta & Gamma were not all involved) and ALL the secondline or garrison formations besides Tau & Omega with the latter never actually involved in the action.
The ranked ability to recover from Tukayyid would be, IMO-
Wolves
Bears
Diamond Sharks
Cats/Vipers
Falcons
Jaguars
The whole range of charges brought against Ulric was very simply a matter of being the victims of their own successes. The Wolves did not lose the number of warriors other Clans did and so the new warriors were stymied in finding a way to build reputation, particularly since part of Revival put a hold on inter-Clan warfare. Which is why Tau was created, a place for those new warriors . . . my suggestion was that Phelan & Natasha were using the Wolves reserves- whatever was in the caches like old Star League machines that sat there since Klondike, designs like the Excaliber EC or Redback that were retired, or even Lupus, Coyotl & Woodsman retired in favor of better Omnis. They also had new production feeding the four frontline galaxies which likely pushed some of their older/beat up machines down the equipment tier- 4th Wolf Guards gets a new Gargoyle, the old one that has a balky knee gets transferred with Star Commander Danahy (who was Mechwarrior Danahy of Bravo Assault Star, Trinary Assault) to one of the new Tau clusters. The Wolves were also trading for new equipment as part of their rebuilding- the Clint IIC fluff stats that clearly, the Ravens put the design back into production just to sell it to the Wolves among others. Likely in trade for the largess of Inner Sphere resources.
WCSB/BoK gives us 15 frontline clusters, 4 garrison clusters, & 4 keshiks
Obj Raids gives us another new 15 garrison clusters (minus Tau) and 1 new frontline but lists no keshiks IIRC though WCSB shows they have them.
4 of the 26 'PGCs' are missing
Explorer Corp gives us garrisons on the Exodus Road, but most are solahma- have to dig out the book to recheck
Red Corsair gives us another solahma cluster- Conal Ward's- which is not mentioned or covered in ObjRaids.
F&W & Refusal War novels sections give us another 5 clusters and say 5 from Omega came from the Homeworlds
Consider them on parity with the Jaguars- who surprised the rest of the Clans in only having 2 galaxies in the Homeworlds- and besides the 5 cluster Omega there SHOULD be another Wolf galaxy garrisoning the enclaves. If not more, again that surprise from the rest of the Clans about how understrength the Jags were at home. Even with reduced manpower Vlad left . . . galaxy & a half? in early 3060s.
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Epsilon was part of the Wolves' four galaxies they were granted for Revival- not the 26 garrison clusters.
Ok, prove this. In the WCSB, Epsilon didn't appear until after the garrison clusters were called up. It seems more logical that Alpha, Beta, Delta and Gamma, the four they used most and used in the 1st Wave, were the first four.
Omega NEVER left the Homeworlds UNTIL Ulric ordered them to escort the set up of the Wardens in '57.
Can't seem to find this in Bred for War, Shattered Sphere, or any other source.
You seem to be basing some of your organizational ideas on Objective Raids, a source known to be flawed and must be taken with a grain of salt.
Canon except where it does not clash with other canon, and I've seen no clash as of yet.
WCSB- and IIRC JFSB & ICSB- do not detail material losses
The novels do, Lost Destiny for the source.
The Wolves controlled the battlefield and were able to salvage their own machines while the other Clans were not- again, helping to keep their material losses low.
Yes, Ulric stated 62ish percent equipment loss, with half being salvageable.
You keep wanting to jump around time frames-
The time frames of sources that can verify the existence of units between 3049 and into the 3050s (since Tau Galaxy was part of the discussion). You have to use multiple sources when no one source has all the information.
Your trying to cite the Falcons at 57 cluster pre-Refusal means relatively nothing
Not when we know their touman wasn't larger than the Ghost Bears, and the Bears topped out at around 57 themselves. Unless you have another source that definitely states the Falcons had more, it's what we can go by. We know they weren't hurting to rebuild after Tukayyid because they suffered relatively few irreplaceable losses compared to other clans and were already back to 85% strength two weeks after Tukayyid according to their sourcebook. They weren't "still rebuilding" five years later. They're one of the richer clans of that era.
authors conveniently forgot about a third of the frontline clusters (Delta & Gamma were not all involved)
This is false, Delta Galaxy was with Ulric's column (chap 24, BfW), and so was Gamma (chap 33).
and ALL the secondline or garrison formations besides Tau & Omega with the latter never actually involved in the action.
Which proves the point that they couldn't have 2-4 galaxies of them sitting around that just disappear after. Those extra units didn't exist.
The whole range of charges brought against Ulric
I'm not hear to re-fight the Refusal War, Colt ;D
The sourcebooks give us around 40 verifiable clusters in their OZ, plus keshiks, plus the addition of 4-5 in Tau later? Count solahma and keshiks and we're generous around 45 in 3049 and 50-ish on the eve of the Refusal. Not bad for a clan that values quality over quantity. Anything higher literally cannot be proven with verifiable units and is in the realm of headcanon.
Assuming the Clans
Respectfully, I'm not going for assuming, I'm going off what can be confirmed. And for example, we know the Wolves didn't have anything left in the homeworlds because such troops were never mentioned and when we finally get a glimpse of their whole touman they don't exist. Simple as.
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Ok, prove this. In the WCSB, Epsilon didn't appear until after the garrison clusters were called up. It seems more logical that Alpha, Beta, Delta and Gamma, the four they used most and used in the 1st Wave, were the first four.
Can't seem to find this in Bred for War, Shattered Sphere, or any other source.
Third Wave- Bruben (Dorbeng), Hermagor (Dorbeng)
Fourth Wave- New Olso (Green Keshik, Dorbeng)
Fifth Wave- Cusset (Choyer & Gurbeng), Laurent (Green Keshik, Nega, Dorbeng), Hainfield (Green Keshik, Nega, Dorbeng), Karston (Choyer), Wheel (Gurbeng), Ramsau (Green Keshik, Dorbeng)
I will have to look, it might be F&W, FMWC, or another point- it was 5 clusters and they had different names. I want to say they used 'Phalanx' rather than other common names. Bred For War does mention the ships went onward and I want to say it was FMWC that says they journeyed from the Homeworlds- they covered the relocation of the space station, lower castes, and sibkos.
Canon except where it does not clash with other canon, and I've seen no clash as of yet.
This is one of the most laughable, the list of errors in Obj Raids is LONG . . . and the Wolves/Falcons have one of the more blatant ones. Look where Nega, Choyer, Gurbeng and Durbeng clusters are located. It also mixes up which clusters are part of which galaxy and IIRC even some of the who the worlds belong to at the time, but the book is in a box.
The novels do, Lost Destiny for the source.
Yes, Ulric stated 62ish percent equipment loss, with half being salvageable.
Alright, been a bit since I read the BoK but my point was that the three SBs did not detail material losses. Still, 30% would mean out of the aforementioned 325th you are looking at 15 or 16 mechs being write offs- which means some of the mechs survived their warriors while what was likely lost were the lighter machines. However the main point was that the Jags, Falcons, Sharks, and Vipers IIRC had to all retreat off world surrendering the battlefield. I do not recall how it ended with the Bears and Cats, if they had to boost off world. FREX, the Jaguars basically left two galaxies' worth of equipment to be salvaged by the ComGuards.
The time frames of sources that can verify the existence of units between 3049 and into the 3050s (since Tau Galaxy was part of the discussion). You have to use multiple sources when no one source has all the information.
Yes, and someone even gave you a source that listed what all the other Clans- except the Wolves- made as their initial bid for Revival. And if they retained at least two galaxies- such as the Jaguars did, though that was viewed as low/small- then it gives you a pretty clear picture. You are also ignoring that in my numbers the keshiks are being combined into cluster sized groups for counting and that I said we even stripped down supernovas.
Not when we know their touman wasn't larger than the Ghost Bears, and the Bears topped out at around 57 themselves. Unless you have another source that definitely states the Falcons had more, it's what we can go by. We know they weren't hurting to rebuild after Tukayyid because they suffered relatively few irreplaceable losses compared to other clans and were already back to 85% strength two weeks after Tukayyid according to their sourcebook. They weren't "still rebuilding" five years later. They're one of the richer clans of that era.
The Ghost Bears had a larger touman, not in overall numbers, but that 'biggest' in regards to their average weight. It is why you get a weight class boost when you roll random weights. The Falcons were close to the Bear's strength but that also had 'fatter' clusters which is part of how they got parity. The Bears recovery can be accounted for by being a partial winner on Tukayyid . . . they controlled one of the battlefields IIRC. I never claimed they were rebuilding, I said where they ranked on the recovery scale IMO. The Bears had some fat, like the Wolves, b/c they did not get hammered on Luthien or Twycross. They also kicked the Sharks off worlds in the IS the Bears wanted . . . now, it is a legitimate question on how quickly they replaced the 15% but I think the Sharks interfered with the Jags more than the Wolves or Bears. They probably picked on the Falcons too.
Btw, for the Bears initial bid of 12 galaxies for Revival? It was not their whole Clan like the Adders so that means at least 13 galaxies . . . multiple that by 4.5 (they seem to go with 4 frontline and 5 garrison like the Wolves) gets us . . . at least 58.5 list clusters, of which some are going to be more than 5 trinaries due to novas. Even giving their galaxies a single trinary as keshik, like some materials indicate, means they would have a bit over another 2.5 clusters.
This is false, Delta Galaxy was with Ulric's column (chap 24, BfW), and so was Gamma (chap 33).
Which proves the point that they couldn't have 2-4 galaxies of them sitting around that just disappear after. Those extra units didn't exist.
I'm not hear to re-fight the Refusal War, Colt ;D
Nope, SOME Delta clusters, I think one or two Gamma and the Bronze Keshik . . . but Phelan ALSO had Gamma clusters on Morges. We only get told the entirety of Alpha, Beta, and Tau with 2-3 clusters of Delta & Gamma called out. Delta being given mostly to Ulric's Crusader pincer makes sense with the troop shuffling comments and being Conal Ward's galaxy just a few years before. But none of the garrison clusters besides Tau were ever in the fight.
No fighting took place in the Home Worlds, it was not the 'Circle,' which means any of the garrisons there would have been at full strength for Vlad's formation of the Crusader Wolves . . . and so would all those clusters claimed as Theta, Iota, Sigma, and Epsilon Galaxies which never left the WCOZ. Both Wolf thrusts are detailed in materials- IIRC Ulric had 3 Delta, 1 Gamma, and all 5 Tau clusters . . . while Natasha had her 4 Alpha (flipped to being called Beta- though the 4th Wolf Guards were swapped to Phelan's command), 1 Delta and 1 Gamma while Phelan had the 2 Beta originals, the transferred 4th Guards, 1 Gamma . . . I will have the check the list later.
The sourcebooks give us around 40 verifiable clusters in their OZ, plus keshiks, plus the addition of 4-5 in Tau later? Count solahma and keshiks and we're generous around 45 in 3049 and 50-ish on the eve of the Refusal. Not bad for a clan that values quality over quantity. Anything higher literally cannot be proven with verifiable units and is in the realm of headcanon.
Respectfully, I'm not going for assuming, I'm going off what can be confirmed. And for example, we know the Wolves didn't have anything left in the homeworlds because such troops were never mentioned and when we finally get a glimpse of their whole touman they don't exist. Simple as.
Because we never get any sort of pre-Invasion list you have to compare them to a peer power . . . and the Wolves along with the Falcons, Jaguars, Adders, and Bears were a top tier power in the Clans. Yes, they are going to be smaller over all than the Falcons. Because each Clan's (or even galaxy's!) clusters are organized differently you have to break them down where you can into 5 trinaries a cluster- comparing a Falcon cluster of 6 or 7 trinaries where it has some novas, to drive that strength even higher, to another Clan's cluster that just has 4 binaries is not a even break down.
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Third Wave- Bruben (Dorbeng), Hermagor (Dorbeng)
Fourth Wave- New Olso (Green Keshik, Dorbeng)
Fifth Wave- Cusset (Choyer & Gurbeng), Laurent (Green Keshik, Nega, Dorbeng), Hainfield (Green Keshik, Nega, Dorbeng), Karston (Choyer), Wheel (Gurbeng), Ramsau (Green Keshik, Dorbeng)
Yup, the garrison troops came in later (as per WCSB) and after the 3rd Wave this was initially challenged by Leo Showers. Meanwhile the four galaxies you mentioned the Wolves were granted were Alpha, Beta, Delta and Gamma, which all appeared in the first two waves. Epsilon wasn't part of that force.
I will have to look, it might be F&W, FMWC, or another point- it was 5 clusters and they had different names. I want to say they used 'Phalanx' rather than other common names. Bred For War does mention the ships went onward and I want to say it was FMWC that says they journeyed from the Homeworlds- they covered the relocation of the space station, lower castes, and sibkos.
As to the phalanx part you might be thinking of Objective Raids.
This is one of the most laughable, the list of errors in Obj Raids is LONG . . . and the Wolves/Falcons have one of the more blatant ones. Look where Nega, Choyer, Gurbeng and Durbeng clusters are located. It also mixes up which clusters are part of which galaxy and IIRC even some of the who the worlds belong to at the time, but the book is in a box.
Yeah, those clusters are located in the Wolf OZ. The names are mistakenly duplicated for the Falcon section, but that doesn't cancel out other sections.
Alright, been a bit since I read the BoK but my point was that the three SBs did not detail material losses.
Not particularly accurately, but the numbers give us some possibility as to how the Wolves rebuilt so quickly.
Yes, and someone even gave you a source that listed what all the other Clans- except the Wolves- made as their initial bid for Revival. And if they retained at least two galaxies- such as the Jaguars did, though that was viewed as low/small- then it gives you a pretty clear picture. You are also ignoring that in my numbers the keshiks are being combined into cluster sized groups for counting and that I said we even stripped down supernovas.
"And if" is the key phrase, one not supported by any novels or sourcebooks. And I'm not trying to ignore the keshiks, I'm just not playing accountant with every single troop point but am instead looking at verifiable clusters that can be counted.
The Ghost Bears had a larger touman, not in overall numbers,
Going to have to agree to disagree here. The above source you mentioned about Revival bids shows a larger touman for them, but YMMV.
Nope, SOME Delta clusters, I think one or two Gamma and the Bronze Keshik
Who wasn't involved, exactly? Between the FMs and The Wolf and The Falcon they seem to all have been. I don't think the writers forgot any of them.
No fighting took place in the Home Worlds,
Probably because the Wolves had no garrisons of note there too (besides it not being in the "Circle"), as per the Clan FMs.
Because we never get any sort of pre-Invasion list you have to compare them to a peer power . . . and the Wolves along with the Falcons, Jaguars, Adders, and Bears were a top tier power in the Clans. Yes, they are going to be smaller over all than the Falcons. Because each Clan's (or even galaxy's!) clusters are organized differently you have to break them down where you can into 5 trinaries a cluster- comparing a Falcon cluster of 6 or 7 trinaries where it has some novas, to drive that strength even higher, to another Clan's cluster that just has 4 binaries is not a even break down.
All the breaking down of points still doesn't make non-existent clusters and galaxies appear, however.
This might be something you want to ask the writers about if you're sure they forgot 1-2 Wolf galaxies that should have existed.
That said, like with the interpretation of the Bears this may be an agree to disagree sort of thing. You have your idea of what the Wolves should have had for a strength, and hey maybe the writers did just forgot to mention homeworld garrisons and the like, but I don't see it supported by what facts we do have.
Cheers.
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Anastasia Kerensky in Omega defeated Paladin Max Ergen in his Doloire along with the Hastati X on Wing.
I THINK that is a new bit of information . . . and certainly sends his force across the width of what remains of the Republic from leading Op Eruptio and Dracs to facing the Crusader Wolves.
Is this the most information we were ever given about Jerome Winson? He lived to be 96 before taking his life with poison.
But . . . uh . . . his mech is messed up- 0/0 speed?
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But . . . uh . . . his mech is messed up- 0/0 speed?
It's a very slow Marauder: question: has the book already gone to printers or can this edit get in there?
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I brought it up in a proper place . . . but it is a stock MAD-2R except for a different targeting system that Winson mastered.
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In 3145 Scorpion Seekers arrived on Solaris VII to collect the cockpit of the Great Father's Orion.
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Yeah, stuck that in a Scorpion topic . . . the way it read, I do not think they were aware it was present. Alaric is collecting symbols of power, he would have placed that with the McKenna if he knew it.
BUT IMO it most importantly establishes that the Scorpions know of the Wolf Empire, and the Wolf Empire knows of the Scorpions . . . which means they will be called upon if the Wolves become ilClan. The only way I can think of them finding out the Wolves held Solaris and that the cockpit was even there was through Sea Fox trading contacts.
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That said, like with the interpretation of the Bears this may be an agree to disagree sort of thing. You have your idea of what the Wolves should have had for a strength, and hey maybe the writers did just forgot to mention homeworld garrisons and the like, but I don't see it supported by what facts we do have.
Cheers.
Quick overview of CGB in the period.
CGB is only confirmed as larger in FM:WC. Before then there is no clear indicator of size. Note, though the Mechs are heavier, the Clusters are smaller with more Novas. Also there are ultra lite Clusters like the Claws. It is not controversial to imagine CGB being smaller than CW, CJF, or CSJ. CSA is interesting because we don't have any information about their size before the Burrock Absorption. This could put them in the Second tier like CHH, CNC, CSV, and dare I say it, CGB.
In the FM CGB has a high ratio of SLDF tech reflecting recovery from Tukayyid and the shut-down of factories during relocation. That could be something to look for in the Falcon and Wolf Touman.
By FM:3067 CJF is up to an identical 57 Clusters while the CGB Clusters have taken solid losses from combat with the DC.
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We also finally get Phelan's fate . . . leading sibkos in Grinner against a pair of chalcas Falcon trinaries destroying occupied factories. He died from multiple cockpit hits at the age of 79 in 3108, the only Wolf loss that day . . . did the sibkin fighting that day have it considered their Trial of Position against the Falcons?
Going to have to put together that scenario . . .
. . . 'three small sibkos' at that stage could be anywhere IMO from 10-30 mechwarriors . . . or maybe even a mix of mechwarriors and Elementals? What sort of training mechs would they have on hand? Mongrels, Pack Hunters, Arctic Wolves?
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Anastasia Kerensky in Omega defeated Paladin Max Ergen in his Doloire along with the Hastati X on Wing.
I THINK that is a new bit of information . . . and certainly sends his force across the width of what remains of the Republic from leading Op Eruptio and Dracs to facing the Crusader Wolves.
Except for a couple of added details this information was already put out in Shattered Fortress in the section covering the Republic strikes against the Wolves' logistics nodes after the Republic dropped the Wall, and the Wolf Empire's response.
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I know other formations fought the Wolves- some were wiped out but I did not think the Paladin had been involved. But its been a year since I read Shattered Fortress so perhaps.
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Quick overview of CGB in the period.
CGB is only confirmed as larger in FM:WC. Before then there is no clear indicator of size. Note, though the Mechs are heavier, the Clusters are smaller with more Novas. Also there are ultra lite Clusters like the Claws. It is not controversial to imagine CGB being smaller than CW, CJF, or CSJ. CSA is interesting because we don't have any information about their size before the Burrock Absorption. This could put them in the Second tier like CHH, CNC, CSV, and dare I say it, CGB.
Given FM: CC before the Burrock Absorption CSA did field 5 frontline and 5 secondline Galaxies. IMHO due their reluctance to be more aggressive I would put them second tier, either.
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We also finally get Phelan's fate . . . leading sibkos in Grinner against a pair of chalcas Falcon trinaries destroying occupied factories. He died from multiple cockpit hits at the age of 79 in 3108, the only Wolf loss that day . . . did the sibkin fighting that day have it considered their Trial of Position against the Falcons?
Going to have to put together that scenario . . .
. . . 'three small sibkos' at that stage could be anywhere IMO from 10-30 mechwarriors . . . or maybe even a mix of mechwarriors and Elementals? What sort of training mechs would they have on hand? Mongrels, Pack Hunters, Arctic Wolves?
Good point could be an interesting fight
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The sibkos were equipped with THE clan training 'mech. Kit Foxes. Especially in W configuration.
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We also finally get Phelan's fate . . . leading sibkos in Grinner against a pair of chalcas Falcon trinaries destroying occupied factories. He died from multiple cockpit hits at the age of 79 in 3108, the only Wolf loss that day . . . did the sibkin fighting that day have it considered their Trial of Position against the Falcons?
Going to have to put together that scenario . . .
. . . 'three small sibkos' at that stage could be anywhere IMO from 10-30 mechwarriors . . . or maybe even a mix of mechwarriors and Elementals? What sort of training mechs would they have on hand? Mongrels, Pack Hunters, Arctic Wolves?
Where is this from?
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Legends, we finally get Phelan's end while Victor hinted at things back in MWDA novels.
Anyway, I can see the sibbies fit out with things the Wardens built in the med and light range- if one of the sibkos was a Elemental sibko, then I think it would have a high possibility of some Omnis.
Wolf defense force
Khan Phelan Kell (0/1?), Grinner
Sibko 1
Wolf Training Officer (Vet)
Three to seven 14-18 y/o cadets (mix Clan Reg/Green skills)
Sibko 2
Wolf Training Officer (Vet)
Three to seven 14-18 y/o freebirth cadets (Clan Green skills)
Sibko 3
Wolf Training Point (Vet Elementals)
10-30 Elemental cadets (mix Reg/Green skills)
But for the Falcons . . . solahma? 30 old mechwarriors on a old fashioned suicide mission?
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I know other formations fought the Wolves- some were wiped out but I did not think the Paladin had been involved. But its been a year since I read Shattered Fortress so perhaps.
Shattered Fortress mentions that Paladin Ergin lead the counterstrike, and that Anastasia and Max fought a duel with Anastasia faking actuator damage in order to lure Max into putting himself in a position for Anastasia to turn the tables on him, and that although his Doloire was destroyed he was able to escape with the remnants of the 10th Hastati. In fact, the reference in Legends to Anastasia's use of cunning/trickery to defeat Paladin Ergin is to the description of their duel in Shattered Fortress.
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The sibkos were equipped with THE clan training 'mech. Kit Foxes. Especially in W configuration.
I read this as
" The sibkos were equipped with TIE clan training 'mech. Kit Foxes. Especially in W configuration. "
Lordy I need sleep!
TT :P
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Shattered Fortress mentions that Paladin Ergin lead the counterstrike, and that Anastasia and Max fought a duel with Anastasia faking actuator damage in order to lure Max into putting himself in a position for Anastasia to turn the tables on him, and that although his Doloire was destroyed he was able to escape with the remnants of the 10th Hastati. In fact, the reference in Legends to Anastasia's use of cunning/trickery to defeat Paladin Ergin is to the description of their duel in Shattered Fortress.
Was that Wing? Legends does not make it sound like he escaped.
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In 3145 Scorpion Seekers arrived on Solaris VII to collect the cockpit of the Great Father's Orion.
What book was this in?
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What book was this in?
Legends. There's a 2nd Seekers reference in there too
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Wait, what? Someone didn't salvage the entire Orion? They only had the cockpit? Yikes.
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Wait, what? Someone didn't salvage the entire Orion? They only had the cockpit? Yikes.
Maybe that is all that is left of the original. They had to restore for Theodore and who knows what was damaged or rusted after four hundred years.
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Maybe that is all that is left of the original. They had to restore for Theodore and who knows what was damaged or rusted after four hundred years.
Only reason was straight from Heir to the Dragon, the Orion was recovered and brought to MINT condition. House Steiner elements of FedCom invading struck capture him during the Forth Succession War. It was highly likely, they managed to salvaged the Orion.
Your right though, it's must been at least 40 year later it showing up on Solaris VII.
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Revenant was said to only have the cockpit salvageable which was sold to the museum.
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I want to write up this scenario so . . . what mechs were the Warden Wolves producing in 3105?
Off the top of my head-
Pack Hunter of various flavors
Arctic Wolf 1 & 2? Arctic Wolf Omni
Mongrel
Mangonel
Maybe on Donegal
Ice Ferret
Linebacker
Kell Hounds were building-
Arctic Fox
Wolfhound series
Verfolger
Omni-star
Trainer/Pack Hunter
Linebacker
Ice Ferret
Arctic Wolf II C
Arctic Wolf J
Arctic Fox
Std-star
Trainer/Pack Hunter
Mongrel
Mongrel 2
Pack Hunter
Wolfhound 3
Arctic Wolf 1
Of course, that would be +/- depending on random roll (1 would be 3 cadets, 2 would be 4 cadets, 3-4 would be 5 cadets, 5 would be 6 cadets, 6 would be 7 cadets) in each star using those and maybe some beat up Falcon salvage (Spirits, some IICs, etc) or SharkFox purchases (Solitaire, etc).
The Falcons would IMO be solahma sent on a one way mission . . . which would mean the dregs of Falcon gear with the provision they would have enough SRMs & LBX to get cockpit hits on Phelan.
Fun question- would the Kell Hounds (under Phelan's nephew), Wolf Dragoons, and of course Warden Wolves mount a punitive campaign against the Falcons?
Some fun dates to keep in mind-
Malvina was born in 3103
Anastasia was born 3105
Phelan dies in 3108
Alaric born 3111
Malvina's sibko might have celebrated his death, a enemy falling to the might of the Falcons (after over 50 years and numerous attempts . . . ) while 3 y/o Anastasia probably never knew. Katherine (who was still wearing high-necked clothing) would not be passing on that hatred to Alaric which also might explain his easier acceptance of the Wardens into the Wolf Empire ranks.
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Alaric is venerated by the Wolf touman, and his efforts to step up production have made the Savage
Wolf one of Clan Wolf’s favored machines.
Am I to interpret this to mean that the Wolves are producing their own Savage Wolves in addition to what the Sea Foxes supply?
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Am I to interpret this to mean that the Wolves are producing their own Savage Wolves in addition to what the Sea Foxes supply?
Either that, or Alaric financed Sea Fox production line expansion.
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@Colt Ward Where you getting Wolfhound 3 from ??? ???
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Sorry, -3S . . . I forget about the 5 sometimes but I wanted something 'old' that might have been in the training command for a while.
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I do find it quite interesting that the Wolves treat the Scorpions as clan when they arrive on Solaris though. It seems at least one friendship is not entirely forgotten despite the long seperation :p
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It is not the only time . . . they got Vlad's Timberwolf from the Horses too . . . the fate of Phelan's Grinner is also up in the air. Morgan Kell's Archer did get slagged by the Falcon attack.
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They might have Ulric's Gargoyle, too...but that'd be stored in a tasteful urn.
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That would have to be one big urn.
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That would have to be one big urn.
The death scene in the novel describes it being reduced to a pile of ash.
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It is not the only time . . . they got Vlad's Timberwolf from the Horses too . . . the fate of Phelan's Grinner is also up in the air. Morgan Kell's Archer did get slagged by the Falcon attack.
Why do I get the feeling as if the Scorpion Seekers are the rebirth of the Black Rose Mercenary unit? You know the Mech battalion commanded by a woman who loved to collect Mechs. In the Mercenaries Supplemental Part 2 it is stated that she got Gray Noton's Rifleman, apparently Victor's first mech (a Victor) some Spartans and what-have -you. h and throw the habits of snord's Irregulars into the mix.
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The death scene in the novel describes it being reduced to a pile of ash.
Are the person realized they're about to die. Randomly grabs a white rose, does a spin and lands out their back. dead.
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I can't help but wish that Crucible out of iRCG10 were an actual superheavy.
It would be cool to see, since we took Devil's Rock where the Republic was working on superheavies. Rather than be an oversized 100t mech, I'd rather have it as a 125t superheavy. may as well get something out of being that big. Maybe we'll see something of that in the wake of our conquest.
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I can't help but wish that Crucible out of iRCG10 were an actual superheavy.
It would be cool to see, since we took Devil's Rock where the Republic was working on superheavies. Rather than be an oversized 100t mech, I'd rather have it as a 125t superheavy. may as well get something out of being that big. Maybe we'll see something of that in the wake of our conquest.
Seconded. I’d like to see some unbridled mixedtech/ClanTech superheavies serving in the ilKhan’s Keshik (or whatever) to take that design option to its extreme. The Crucible couldn’t do that because the rules set that the Rec Guide designs are based on doesn’t include the superheavy rules. But no reason not to in TRO: ilClan (or whatever).
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Quick overview of CGB in the period.
CGB is only confirmed as larger in FM:WC. Before then there is no clear indicator of size.
Doesn’t Revival Trials spot them at 12 galaxies?
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With the Gargoyle coming, and ug leaving aside any hatchet ideas, what do folks think might happen for the RecGuide configs? Especially the T . . .
Off the top of my head I was considering a Garg T as . . . 2 iHLL, 2 ATM6 w/4t ammo, ERSL, and 2 DHS. Changes the usual complain about the Garg Prime being low damage . . . while it would badly overheat with an alpha, putting over 70 points of damage on a target in a perfect salvo would be nothing to sneeze at compared to the Prime.
But to truly update the Prime for meeting the same role . . . 2 Plasma Cannon w/5t ammo, 2 ATM6 w/3t ammo, and ERSL.
Bit of a mix would be ERLL, Plasma Cannon w/2t ammo, ATM6 w/2t ammo, SRM6 w/1t ammo, TAG, ECM and SC.
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After more consideration . . . perhaps Yulri's time on Solaris influenced what he did with mechs? Take the Wolves' flagship mech, the Gargoyle, and duplicate a successful warrior . . . Danai Liao.
Now I do not know much about shields . . . but give the Gargoyle a hatchet, shield (made out of Ferro-Lam?), a supercharger and heavy lasers in the side torso opposite the shield. A 16 point hit moving 10 hexes (or 9? with shield) finishing off damage from lasers like Yen-Lo-Wang?
Hatchet, Med Shield, iHLL, iMHL, ERLL, CASE II, and Supercharger . . . laid out like Danai's YLW. Pretty good on the heat management, but 36 laser damage and 16 hatchet . . . can you use the hatchet & shield bash at the same time?
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I am hoping for supercharger configs. May as well get the most out of those Stabilized Arms, after all.
And for something with ERPPCs that isn't the Conal or the A.
I'm gonna go out to left field and say we see atleast one WYSIWYG variant with Protomech Autocannons.
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Doesn’t Revival Trials spot them at 12 galaxies?
From memory it was 12 Galaxies bid. The early written Clans were very fluid and potentially much bigger. For example in modern books those 12 Galaxies include PGCs. Who would include their PGCs in a bid?
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the book is mine! now if only I had time to read it!
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I'm reading it now
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With the Gargoyle coming, and ug leaving aside any hatchet ideas,
I did a Garg with a Hatchet and the next thing I put on it was a supercharger. While this mech is already fast, it's going to want that supercharger burst to make sure it gets in close. I also gave it an iHLL, two Streak SRM 6s, and an ERSL (because I had that .5 to burn). This mech needs to get into close combat ASAP and ruin people's day!
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It's harder than it looks. No TSM and Hatchets are heavy. It is down right challenging to put a hatchet on an Omni that wasn't planned for it.
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It's harder than it looks. No TSM and Hatchets are heavy. It is down right challenging to put a hatchet on an Omni that wasn't planned for it.
Which is why I suggested it was a Yulri design inspired by Danai.
Now about Hour of the Wolf . . .
I find some of the details disappointing though I am only halfway in . . .
frontline units with vehicles while 3145 said all 5 frontline galaxies had rotated them to secondline and garrison formations
frontline units not made up of all Omnis
solahma with Omnis
Discussing a McKenna's NACs rather than the HNPPCs were are its primary guns
4 Republic destroyers (at best) are not going to stand up to a battleship, battlecruiser, two heavy cruisers, cruiser and a frigate- which does not touch on the horde of Isegrims
Edit- Oh yeah, forgot . . . the Warden Wolves started taking in German- or at least Anastasia did- but there is no reason for the Crusader Wolves or especially the Falcons to swear with German
It is interesting to see the Wolves' plan be Risk's Australia strategy, which I had suggested in another thread.
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HotW Spoilers:
Where the heck did the White Lupu come from? I can't find any prior reference to that ship.
Now that Reunion has occurred, I Guess someone's going to have to go to Donegal and relocate AssaultTech Industries. Or maybe just garrison it? But all those iRCG designs that the Exiles had put back into production are now available to the ilWolves. woot woot.
I wonder if the game will get rules for DFA Deflection, or if the Amarok's Special Ability will be fluff-only? I can't wait to see the iRCG on that one. I was wishing the novel had the mech pictures at the back that they used to do long ago
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White Lupu was just a dropship- a Noruff class . . . so nothing massively special . . . but I was still expecting the 'horde' of Isegrims, maybe some Nagasawas to be the bulk of the Wolf assault ship fleet.
Also with Elementals on the hull, how did the Wolves not end up with a 'new' destroyer?
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So the Amarok . . . LPL, ERPPC, RAC . . . 100t . . . fast? or at least faster than a Dire Wolf. Seems it might have been built off the Dire Wolf design or at least the cockpit was- which you could assume the Tomahawk & Tomahawk II were as well. Then again, you could say the Dire Wolf also shows design characteristics with the Scylla . . . But that seems to be a light war load, so it has to put the weight elsewhere and a 400XL makes sense . . . also has to have a deep ammo bin.
Reinforced structure?
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if advanced technologies were on the plate, I'd say we were going to see the surprise release of a RAC/10.
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I wonder if the Amorak follows the Hammerhead in using AES in its feet.
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I wonder if the Amorak follows the Hammerhead in using AES in its feet.
Not if it's an assault, they don't fit?
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I wonder if the Amorak follows the Hammerhead in using AES in its feet.
Lower center of gravity, nothing about the legs/feet . . . stream lined looks
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So when Kalidessa scanned her Amarok, she apparently did not tell us about the Streaks . . . so add that to the payload.
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if advanced technologies were on the plate, I'd say we were going to see the surprise release of a RAC/10.
The NAIS should've created it right after the RAC/5
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You know, I would not mind trying a scenario based off the 2 Zeta Clusters hitting the Falcon supply dumps . . . outnumbered 4 to 1 at each dump, equipped with Lyran isorla, FWL salvage, new Clan secondline production, and staffed by sibko graduates, abathka, & experienced cadre could be a lot of fun.
It would definitely be one of the scenarios with indirectly conflicting victory conditions- the Falcons are looking to slaughter Wolves, the Wolves are intent on destroying as many warehouses, supply trucks, and mech support facilities. How much can the Wolves wreck and still have survivors retreat back under the lake? Any mech with a open torso location automatically becomes part of the rear guard . . . but the Falcon's fighting traditions would not let them focus on punching holes rather than getting the kill.
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Read the story, sounds like Khan Ward going have uphill battle trying sort thing out his right to be ilKhan.
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All signs point to the Wolves going to take Terra and be the ilClan, it's just a matter of how much they sweat for it.
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All signs point to the Wolves going to take Terra and be the ilClan, it's just a matter of how much they sweat for it.
Hour of the Wolf tells us that?
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Hour of the Wolf tells us that?
Essentially, it shows aftermath but not how they HOLD Terra. Some Clans arrive, Hell's Horses say "SUCK IT" and leave like children. I expect the next thing is when the Fortress Wall goes down for good. Liao is fanatical like Falcons were except not as homicidal, waiting to grab Terra with their next big fleet of troops waiting go in claim the planet. Given how badly the both Clan Wolf, Jade Falcon, and now the Smoke Jaguars are, i don't think its going to be easy go for the Clans.
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Now that Reunion has occurred, I Guess someone's going to have to go to Donegal and relocate AssaultTech Industries. Or maybe just garrison it? But all those iRCG designs that the Exiles had put back into production are now available to the ilWolves. woot woot.
What makes you think that, considering that it's on a Lyran planet and was also heavily subsidized by the Lyran taxpayer/government? The only way the Exiles, after rejoining the Wolves, will get their hands on any of the output is through force or very severe threats.
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if advanced technologies were on the plate, I'd say we were going to see the surprise release of a RAC/10.
Nah, no way, I think. Imagine what a RAC/10 would do to a mech. The way it was portrayed in the novel hardly made it seem like anything special.
Lower center of gravity, nothing about the legs/feet . . . stream lined looks
To me it sounded like the "stable" quirk and maybe also impact-resistant armor. Then it turned out, no, it does some stuff with its hands... kay... ::)
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What makes you think that, considering that it's on a Lyran planet and was also heavily subsidized by the Lyran taxpayer/government? The only way the Exiles, after rejoining the Wolves, will get their hands on any of the output is through force or very severe threats.
Not exactly . . . the Wardens could have packed up some of it, especially if Lupus Majoris had been relocated to Donegal.
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Nah, no way, I think. Imagine what a RAC/10 would do to a mech. The way it was portrayed in the novel hardly made it seem like anything special.
To me it sounded like the "stable" quirk and maybe also impact-resistant armor. Then it turned out, no, it does some stuff with its hands... kay... ::)
Nothing in the description of the Amorok rules out impact-resistant armor, and as your eye-roll demonstrates just throwing its arms over it head shouldn't be an automatic defense against DFAs. Even if they do form a shape to deflect those kinds of attacks. Now throwing impact-resistant armored arms over its head might actually be a good solution for resisting DFAs.
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Yup, I suggested reinforced structure which would also let it hold up to getting landed on.
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Not exactly . . . the Wardens could have packed up some of it, especially if Lupus Majoris had been relocated to Donegal.
You can't keep using "took it off the Lyrans" every time someone asks a difficult question.
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The Wardens disappeared on the Lyrans without any notice taking what they could with them. I am not suggesting they took everything, but they could have taken key portions. What I actually suggested they took were 2 things-
First, Lupus Majoris- IF it was moved from Arc Royal to protect the Warden's shipyard and endosteel source. IF it was still at Arc Royal when the Falcons came calling, then it was not at Donegal. Lupus Majoris was a mobile station brought from the Homeworlds to Lyran space on Ulric's orders- so packing up a mobile asset is do-able.
Second, if the seed of the Warden's Donegal factories was one of the 'mobile' factory set ups the Wolves won off the Bears and was the source of the factories on Arc Royal in the 60s it could be possible for them to pack it up.
I was not suggesting they hoovered all production on the planet. The Warden Wolves had a few months between the fall of Arc Royal and when they left their garrison locations in Lyran space. Besides the two possibilities above they could have also taken the dies, molds, and other 'mobile' factory apparatus. While they might not have been able to do it with fancier mechs, the design on the Sojourner would lend itself to very rough construction conditions.
So what do I expect is left on Donegal? Most everything to make a mech, but perhaps not what is needed to continue what was being produced before- they will need new dies, molds, stamping, mills, etc. Real question is were the Clan spec weapons built on Donegal or shipped in?
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What makes you think that, considering that it's on a Lyran planet and was also heavily subsidized by the Lyran taxpayer/government? The only way the Exiles, after rejoining the Wolves, will get their hands on any of the output is through force or very severe threats.
Because it's a ridiculous amount of clantech lines to simply walk away from and leave in lyran hands? They might have to fight for it, but the lyrans are hardly a fearsome threat that cannot be reckoned with.
me, if I were in command shoes, I'd say "we will trade you worlds X, Y, Z and B, (where those are unimportant worlds in the Empire) in return for the AssaultTech factories on Donegal. If you refuse, we will come and take them by force"
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How big is WiE? Can they put up a fight? Surely they are not all pro Wolf? Is it worth a civil war?
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Is there a WiE anymore? Either they all joined Miriam Shaw and are a part of the ilClan's Omega Provisional Galaxy (from HotW chapter 30) or if not all joined there's still some form of a WiE in possession of those factories. If all of WiE joined Clan Wolf wouldn't it have been Clan Wolf Absorbing all of WiE? So all the assets would be Clan Wolf's now?
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Any WIE that did not join the Wolf Empire probably joined the Kell Hounds.
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How big is WiE? Can they put up a fight? Surely they are not all pro Wolf? Is it worth a civil war?
What was left after Arc Royal was at best 4 to 5 clusters, all understrength . . . they had sibbies step up and retired warriors come back. They had a trickle of warriors after the sack of Arc Royal join the Wolf Empire- I think a RecGuide pilot was one of them. Everyone packed up and departed Lyran space.
NOW . . . there are Warden Wolf sourced folks outside the ilClan . . . Alexia Wolf was Jasek's significant other was one.
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Because it's a ridiculous amount of clantech lines to simply walk away from and leave in lyran hands? They might have to fight for it, but the lyrans are hardly a fearsome threat that cannot be reckoned with.
me, if I were in command shoes, I'd say "we will trade you worlds X, Y, Z and B, (where those are unimportant worlds in the Empire) in return for the AssaultTech factories on Donegal. If you refuse, we will come and take them by force"
And you can honestly see them going against the people they chose to protect for close to a century for a couple of production lines?
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And you can honestly see them going against the people they chose to protect for close to a century for a couple of production lines?
Can you see the Former Exiles abandoning their lower caste members that are staffing those factories? if it comes down to members of the pack versus their former hosts holding those lower castes hostage, I can absolutely see them in conflict with the Lyrans.
It need not even be Omega Provisional who fights, if it comes to that. If the Lyrans insist on holding on to physical possession of them, I can see a less conflicted Wolf unit being sent to reclaim them.
Beyond that, there's precedent for the Wolves honoring factory output contracts after taking over a factory. The R10 APC line was siezed by the Wolves during establishment of the Wolf Empire, and they continued to export the design as it was before the Empire. I could see the factories being relocated, but the Lyrans continuing to be paid the output they were due. The clans have long traded material with factions they were at odds with, the homeworlds were full of mercantile interchange between otherwise beligerent parties.
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Can you see the Former Exiles abandoning their lower caste members that are staffing those factories? if it comes down to members of the pack versus their former hosts holding those lower castes hostage, I can absolutely see them in conflict with the Lyrans.
No one is left in the Commonwealth . . . for one, we do not even know if they had very many people on Donegal. But the entry is everyone packed up and disappeared.
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No one is left in the Commonwealth . . . for one, we do not even know if they had very many people on Donegal. But the entry is everyone packed up and disappeared.
Well, then Hopefully "Packed up" includes the Adder and Ice Ferret lines. it would be a sorry tease to give them back and then immediately yank them away. The Linebacker line would be a duplicate, so if something's gotta stay, thats not a bad option.
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The former WiE Khan, turn Galaxy Commander is pretty dramatized by what Falcons did to their newborns in the Iron Wombs.
Its a shame. Then again, i'm on the fence on how this new Star League, if its going be called that. Is going to work. Clan society doesn't seem to be culture that would work. I'm totally surprised Anastasia Kerensky came out as new Commanding General, frankly it does't fit with Clan society mix. Maybe iLClan book will sort it out, but i don't know. Falcons are barely 71 - 61 people. Tara Falcon, seems to be WEIRD thing to happen to our resident Highlander, except maybe her name will be made into Bloodname. Highlanders changing Falcons into Highlander like people would be big up tick for them. Personally, i never got the connection with Falcons with the Black Watch. I thought it was Blood Spirits's Colleen Schmitt, connection be more solid thing excep their all "Dead" as far anyone knows.
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Nah, Elizabeth Hazen (check her out on Sarna, I wrote it) was also a commander of the Black Watch. She was defacto leader and took to the hills guerilla-style during the Amaris Crisis.
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Well, then Hopefully "Packed up" includes the Adder and Ice Ferret lines. it would be a sorry tease to give them back and then immediately yank them away. The Linebacker line would be a duplicate, so if something's gotta stay, thats not a bad option.
Ice Ferret line was on Arc Royal, it is lost again.
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The Ice Ferret is manufactured by Assault Tech Industries on Donegal, not on Arc-Royal, according to Recognition Guide Volume 4. Donegal at no point was captured by the Falcons, it's still Lyran held.
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The Ice Ferret is manufactured by Assault Tech Industries on Donegal, not on Arc-Royal, according to Recognition Guide Volume 4. Donegal at no point was captured by the Falcons, it's still Lyran held.
They were building it on two worlds? I just remember the techs mounting off to hold off the Falcon hordes . . . and being slagged for it.
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Well, then Hopefully "Packed up" includes the Adder and Ice Ferret lines. it would be a sorry tease to give them back and then immediately yank them away. The Linebacker line would be a duplicate, so if something's gotta stay, thats not a bad option.
Clan Wolf got a piece of tech in every RecGuide so far. Often more. With thinks like the Wulfen, and Stormwolf ans Skinwalker, and at least 6 heavy Mechs in play are we really going to quibble over 3 OmniMechs going to a faction which is dead in its feet?
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I'm curious if some side story / novellas are on verge coming out to cover the "other missions" Alaric had dispatched. Like Anastasia's WiE mission for instance.
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I see where the confusion is coming from. Recog Guide 4 does list the Ice Ferret's manufacturer as Assault Tech Industries (Donegal). It also says that the design has recently proliferated to the Falcons and Horses "through the loss of its primary factory world, Arc-Royal". The battle Colt is thinking of does take place on Arc-Royal in 3146, with the Ice Ferrets both scuttling manufacturing facilities and covering the retreat of equipment/personnel to Donegal.
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Clan Wolf got a piece of tech in every RecGuide so far. Often more. With thinks like the Wulfen, and Stormwolf ans Skinwalker, and at least 6 heavy Mechs in play are we really going to quibble over 3 OmniMechs going to a faction which is dead in its feet?
The Skinwalker is a beast, true, but it is a very specialized and limited sort of beast. You HAVE to have EI or VDNI to operate it with the cockpit it's got. So, unless there's an incoming product with a Skinwalker Lite Production Variant, or Clan Wolf found a way to make an Interface Armor that doesn't necessitate life-shortening circuitry to be installed in members of an already stretched-thin warrior caste, I'm gonna keep wanting a medium Omni option that isn't a Skinwalker.
And I kinda doubt we'll get that Skinwalker Lite, because every time I tried to build one, I wound up back at Stormcrow, and we already have a stormcrow. (Mom, can we have Skinwaker? We have Skinwalker at home! The Skinwalker At Home: Stormcrow.mtf)
So, for Wolfly appropriate Mediums, we have the Ice Ferret, the Phantom and the Pouncer. Much as I'd like to see the Phantom and Pouncer back in production, they weren't a part of the Kickstarter, so I don't intend to hold my breath there. The Ice Ferret though, That was just brought back to life by the Kickstarter and fills a needed niche.
I have no idea what a "Stormwolf" is though. Is it an Omni? I don't see it in any of the first 10 iRCGs. If it's not an omni, and thus can't carry Elementals, then no, I'm still going to feel the lack of the Ice Ferret.
As long as it's a case of just shrugging and walking away from factories like the Ice Ferret that fill a needed niche in Clan Wolf, yeah I'm gonna quibble about that being left on the table. Especially if it's just being handed, scott free to the Lyrans. I'd balk less if the lines wound up in Falcon hands, as unlikely as that might be.
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The Skinwalker is a beast, true, but it is a very specialized and limited sort of beast. You HAVE to have EI or VDNI to operate it with the cockpit it's got. So, unless there's an incoming product with a Skinwalker Lite Production Variant, or Clan Wolf found a way to make an Interface Armor that doesn't necessitate life-shortening circuitry to be installed in members of an already stretched-thin warrior caste, I'm gonna keep wanting a medium Omni option that isn't a Skinwalker.
And I kinda doubt we'll get that Skinwalker Lite, because every time I tried to build one, I wound up back at Stormcrow, and we already have a stormcrow. (Mom, can we have Skinwaker? We have Skinwalker at home! The Skinwalker At Home: Stormcrow.mtf)
Alaric got in one to survive a DS crash into the Bering so . . .
The Stormwolf is a Omni, seems it has a LAMS fixed, or the 2 versions we got had it. A 7/11 or faster Omni- maybe with MASC or SC.
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Sorry if I am coming across as testy. I have just been researching Dominion losses in Operation Noyan.
The Bears lost 4 lines on New Oslo but regained 2 through the magic of RecGuides.
In comparison since 3130 the Wolves at least doubled their production lines by 3145 despite losing half a dozen in the OZ. They were mostly IS tech, but RecGuides is showing a significant proportion have been upgraded by 3150. The Empire has also managed to take Skye, which is about 25% of Falcon production and nearly eliminates the Wolf Aero weakness. That is before you count Terra.
So a couple of classic Wolf chassis (and Sojourner) are nice from a feel good perspective, but they are just a cherry on top of of a very big cake.
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Alaric got in one to survive a DS crash into the Bering so . . .
That's been corrected in recent updates of Hour of the Wolf.
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Alaric got in one to survive a DS crash into the Bering so . . .
Well, most mechs seem to have a limited operating mode for technicians to move them and work on them, I was assuming that since Alaric hasn't ever been noted to have EI, that either he used it in Safe Mode, or it was some sort of Skincrow.
That's been corrected in recent updates of Hour of the Wolf.
Oh, nice.
Sorry if I am coming across as testy. I have just been researching Dominion losses in Operation Noyan.
The Bears lost 4 lines on New Oslo but regained 2 through the magic of RecGuides.
In comparison since 3130 the Wolves at least doubled their production lines by 3145 despite losing half a dozen in the OZ. They were mostly IS tech, but RecGuides is showing a significant proportion have been upgraded by 3150. The Empire has also managed to take Skye, which is about 25% of Falcon production and nearly eliminates the Wolf Aero weakness. That is before you count Terra.
So a couple of classic Wolf chassis (and Sojourner) are nice from a feel good perspective, but they are just a cherry on top of of a very big cake.
I mean, if the setting were MY game to run, the RecGuides would be giving everyone plenty of love. Really, I'd mostly be going by what factions a design was known to be associated with if there were strong associations (which does seem to be being done) and if there's two, give it to both (which isn't being done as much) Alas, you and your yellow beemer are closer to that sort of influence than I am. Hell, I'm about as far from being able to exert influence over the product line as can be. And personally, I'd have given the Wolves fewer heavies/heavies-in-spirit. I mean, I love heavies, but for kerensky's sake, we have enough options. Mediums? Eh, Stormwolf might be enough, if Colt's postulations above are accurate. Would rather have faster, for delivering Elementals.
But, really, what the bears do or don't have, has nothing to do with what Clan Wolf does get. The Wolves losing those lines to the Lyrans doesn't sweeten the deal any for Clan Ghost Bear.
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You can't keep using "took it off the Lyrans" every time someone asks a difficult question.
sure you can! It's not like they have the ability to KEEP anything!
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The Stormwolf shows up in HotW. It is an omni designed by the Wolves, but built (at least initially) by the Foxes. It is said to be built for speed & firepower. The Stormwolf B has an ERPPC & Plasma Cannon. The Stormwolf C has a supercharger, and "large and medium lasers" of unspecified type (ER, Pulse, Heavy, Improved Heavy, etc).
In addition to the Amarok, there's also another 'Mech, the Firestorm, unknown weight, speed, or origin. It has a pair of ER medium lasers and a Plasma Rifle (it said the rifle, the IS tech weapon).
There's also 2 types of BA mentioned, though not described much, if any. They are Callisto Clan Wolf BA andGray Wolf BA.
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Both of the two models also had LAMS, the B also had a ERML IIRC.
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Foes the new book seems to mark turning point for the Wolf Empire?
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Until we see readouts though, It's difficult to comment on those mechs. heck, the dominator was said to be an Omni in its initial appearance, but it's not. They might make appearances there, but we didn't even get back-of-the-novel pictures of the mechs like the old days.
Foes the new book seems to mark turning point for the Wolf Empire?
Pretty sure we're supposed to keep the commentary on the plot of the book to the Gen Disc spoiler thread. PM me, or read the spoiler thread if you dont care about spoilers.
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Until we see readouts though, It's difficult to comment on those mechs. heck, the dominator was said to be an Omni in its initial appearance, but it's not. They might make appearances there, but we didn't even get back-of-the-novel pictures of the mechs like the old days.
Pretty sure we're supposed to keep the commentary on the plot of the book to the Gen Disc spoiler thread. PM me, or read the spoiler thread if you dont care about spoilers.
I own the book as well, but i will wait. My stupid google books i guess is no frills without anything special in it.
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And now we have the Stormwolf. Had it for a little while actually.
My first thought is that it's slower than I had hoped. It is definitely a partner to heavier and more esoteric brethren. This is a design that can keep up with the manic bursts of power that a Skinwalker would output, or lope comfortably along beside a Warwolf. It's fast in a tactical sense, but not as much on the strategic level. I see pairing this with a commander in a Skinwalker or a Warwolf, and salvaged Wendigos
Sure is outfitted with a lot of protective technology though, with the hardmounted Laser AMS, and the Reflec Armor.
At the same time, I'm happy that the Exiles restoked production on the Ice Ferret and that they are in exile no more, because there are definitely stars where I would rather have an Ice Ferret than a Stormwolf.
Wolves are well positioned at this point to run pure Omni forces in their frontlines if they so desire. I know when my Terran campaign wraps up, that's my goal for parts of my CWF Rho Galaxy.
Off the top of my head, we have:
Superheay Omnis:
Ares
Assault Omnis:
Tomahawk II (a line which should have no problem also side-along producing Dire Wolves, or at least parts to keep existing Dire Wolves working.)
Doloire
Simurgh Omnifighter
Schiltron Mobile Fire Support Platform
Heavy Omnis: (Lots of heavies!)
Warwolf
Timber Wolf
Linebacker (Potentially Two Lines)
Soujourner
[Censored]
Savage Wolf (Via CSF)
Crossbow
Bolla Stealth Tank (RAF)
Goth Omnifighter
Schrack Omnifighter
Medium Omnis:
Skinwalker
Stormwolf
Ice Ferret (Via CWX Merger)
Coyotl (Via CSF, Which I guess also eases the need for a fast mover Omni)
Grendel (Via CSF)
Scapha Hovertank
Zephyr Omnidrone
R10 ICV
Zibler Fast Strike Tank
Light Omnis:
Wulfen
Adder (Potentially Two Lines)
Mist Lynx (Via CSF)
Badger transport
Ultralight Omnis:
Celerity
Not to mention all of the designs (such as the 1st gen/1.5th gen IS Omnimechs, and the designs contributed/traded/sold to the republic by clans over its lifespan) that are present on the Republic MUL, but aren't explicitly produced within the ilClan's new territory.
Additionally, Outreach is in former republic space, and all my research through all the Jihad publications, it never details the outright destruction of the Dire Wolf and Kit Fox production there. There's plenty of talk about the destruction of the surface facilities on outreach, but the intro to Blood of Kerensky, where Natasha and Jaimie are discussing Outreach's suitability for their mission indicates that the facilities they intend to use to make clantech are deep underground and survived the succession wars.
Much may have been lost on Arc Royal, but it is also possible that data escaped with the Exiles when they departed, opening up the possibilities of designs like the Arctic Wolf II and the Gulltoppr in addition to what's listed above.
Still in Limbo, unaccounted for in the iRCGs so far are the Pouncer (which I would love to have back) Phantom (which is the closest thing we have to a partner for the Wulfen, AND I would love to see the first gen's description of an optical camoflauge system (resembling CLPS) acknowledged in a refresh of the design) and Naga (which I suspect would be a Horse thing now, since they got the Gargoyle, if it gets acknowledged at all)
That's Omni designs in every weight category, including Superheavy and Ultralight, and covering a wide breadth of roles. Along with ample facilities to produce battle armor to go along with your Omni forces. With the Gargoyle and Dire Wolf (wouldnt the Tomahawk Mk I make more sense?) going to the Horses in the RecGuides, I would say that Assault Omnis is actually where the Wolves have the least diversity at the moment. Specifically Omnimechs, as the list of production available goes far far wider if we open it up to statc designs as well. With mechs such as the Crucible and the Stone Rhino we certainly aren't hurting for general assault designs. But, the Horses having those designs give me ideal targets when the time comes to humble the horses for their refusal to acknowledge the ilClan. I still think the Dire Wolf would have been better off as a Rebirthday Present from Clan Wolf to the Reborn Smoke Jaguars though. Might have to see that happen.
Of course, there are no doubt plenty of warriors who likely no longer think of mechs in the terms of Omni = Elite, Static = Second Line, but I retain that preference and think it would be fitting for the ilClan to have some prestigious units that could once again demonstrate a high degree of Omnimech composition.
Anything I missed, production-wise?
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Pretty good rundown. Help me out though, my memory is failing me, what is the censored heavy Omni?
I just noticed two things about the Stormwolf that may have influenced its design from an in-universe perspective. First the slower than expected speed means it uses a 300XL engine, which should be very common. Second, the possible failure rates for the MASC & Supercharger leave the potential for lots of spare parts & repair kit sales.
I agree about the general shift away from Omni/Frontline, Non-Omni/Secondline restrictions, especially with the quality of some of the non-Omnis for the Wolves.
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It boggles my mind that I saw "slower than I expected" referring to a 6/9[15]/6 Mech delivered with complete sincerity.
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It boggles my mind that I saw "slower than I expected" referring to a 6/9[15]/6 Mech delivered with complete sincerity.
Agreed--moving 15 hexes at that weight is extraordinary--BV cost aside.
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It just occurred to me that the name of this thread needs to be updated. Replace "in a Savage Wolf" with "with a pillow." >:D
Edit: Also, I'd drop the "Buy Savage Wolves!" part. They're sold by the Sea Foxes.
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It just occurred to me that the name of this thread needs to be updated. Replace "in a Savage Wolf" with "with a pillow." >:D
Edit: Also, I'd drop the "Buy Savage Wolves!" part. They're sold by the Sea Foxes.
It's the end of an era with the buy savage wolves thread. Which is good timing. The thread should be coming to a close just as Ilclan drops...
So the reason the thread is named like it is because I, a Sea Fox, claimed the thread title early and then challenged Steve Restless, A Wolf, to a trial of possession for the title of this thread.
Steve usually mops the floor with me, but I won that trial and so claimed it for Sea Fox advertising space.
Out of respect for the Ilclan Clan Sea Fox has no intentions of trialed for the next thread title...
The one after that though... look out. ;D
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I'm all for closing this thread out with a bang.
Clan Wolf is always interesting. It's the Clan of Kerensky, and it reeks of fiat. But not in a negative way.
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I don't mean this in a flamey way but 3150/Ilclan saw the technical death of Clan Wolf, did anyone else put this together? When Ulric split off WiE before the Falcon absorption they became/were the true Clan Wolf, when the Jade Wolves became Clan Wolf, Vladimir stated implicitly that they were not the original Wolves so they could start the invasion again, so with Wie now being absorbed by not Clan Wolf Clan Wolf, the Original Wolves are no more, or did i miss a bit where not Clan Wolf were accepted as Clan Wolf?
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Get this man into the lawyer subcaste, stat! (Would that be Merchant or Laborer?)
I think, by 3150, the legal distinctions between Vlad's and Phelan's Wolves had largely vanished. The Exiles (having long since been Abjured and having lost any/all legal standing before other Clans) joined the Wolf Empire and reintegrated with the descendants of Vlad's Crusaders. Alaric's Clan, while not being the original Clan Wolf (for legal purposes related to the whole Jade Wolves fiasco), nonetheless is accepted by other Clans as a legitimate descendant of the Clan forged by Nicholas Kerensky back on Strana Mechty. At a certain point, perception becomes indistinguishable from reality, especially once the only other potential claimants cash in their Exile membership cards and start waving Wolf Empire flags.
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It boggles my mind that I saw "slower than I expected" referring to a 6/9[15]/6 Mech delivered with complete sincerity.
For my part its the base speed part of that. Sure you can get it up fast, but you can't keep it up without taking big risks the longer you try.
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Get this man into the lawyer subcaste, stat! (Would that be Merchant or Laborer?)
I think, by 3150, the legal distinctions between Vlad's and Phelan's Wolves had largely vanished. The Exiles (having long since been Abjured and having lost any/all legal standing before other Clans) joined the Wolf Empire and reintegrated with the descendants of Vlad's Crusaders. Alaric's Clan, while not being the original Clan Wolf (for legal purposes related to the whole Jade Wolves fiasco), nonetheless is accepted by other Clans as a legitimate descendant of the Clan forged by Nicholas Kerensky back on Strana Mechty. At a certain point, perception becomes indistinguishable from reality, especially once the only other potential claimants cash in their Exile membership cards and start waving Wolf Empire flags.
Ah a case of Clan Wolf is dead, Long live Clan Wolf!
I don't know on how much it has vanished IF it was needed by TPTB to be an issue, it could be something a writer could use as a plot hook somewhere or something someone brings up in universe, it is the end of the original Clan Wolf, it deserves a line in one clans remembrance at least.
Merchant, specifically a Diamond Shark Warrior-Merchant sub-cast, enforcing legalese with the point of a point of elementals, "Ah you see section 7, sub-section q, paragraph XIIV clearly states, suddenly negotiation by Point of Elementals"
Clan Sea Shark/Diamond Fox, you can find me somewhere in the Dominion slowly raising a paw with a whisper of "Technically?"
As an aside i think if i ever get a chance to play MechWarrior TTRPG, I'm going for a Ghost Bear with some Fox/Shark, because apparently technicalities matter
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I feel like the Clans accepted Clan Wolfs resurrection shenanigans without too much of a whimper...
For instance, why would Clan Wolf have any non-shared Blood Houses? Shouldn't the Falcons have Kerensky and Ward blood lines for instance?
I think for the other clans it was a matter between the Falcons and the Wolves and I think Marthe Pryde and Vlad were like, "Let's pretend this never happened." After Vlad murdered all the other Khans.
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Vlad made a mess of Elias Crichell, which made his pronouncement of the "All-New and Improved Clan Wolf" perfectly acceptable to the Grand Council.
But like Wantec, I think the lines between Wolf Clans blurred and disappeared over time. It was inevitable.
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Pretty good rundown. Help me out though, my memory is failing me, what is the censored heavy Omni?
It's censored because I am not permitted to speak of it, due to my prior zeal in arguing over it. PM me if you're still stuck.
For my part its the base speed part of that. Sure you can get it up fast, but you can't keep it up without taking big risks the longer you try.
Exactly this. It is fast, tactically. You can generate great sudden bursts of speed which matter on a tactical battlefield, but it's slow on a strategic level. Think less "on the battlefield" and more " traveling between battles"
You can't reasonably pair it with an ice ferret or a phantom or a wulfen and expect the star to stay together on the move.
Like I said though, it makes an excellent partner to the skinwalker who suffers from the same low long-term speed.
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50 ton Mechs don't move at Ice Ferret speeds. They are line Mechs. 6/9 is as fast as they go without being compromised. I think you are hoping for something the Mech was never intended to be.
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There's a reasonable medium design at 50-55 for 7/11 especially with speed enhancement but you start running into payload issues rapidly. Very rapidly.
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There's a reasonable medium design at 50-55 for 7/11 especially with speed enhancement but you start running into payload issues rapidly. Very rapidly.
And I love our little monkey OmniMech friend. But as you say, pod space is at a premium.
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XXL engine would return a lot of payload. But shifts issues toward heat and space, though careful equipment choices can correct that.
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50 ton Mechs don't move at Ice Ferret speeds. They are line Mechs. 6/9 is as fast as they go without being compromised. I think you are hoping for something the Mech was never intended to be.
You've got to realize I was starting from zero on this. I'm not expecting a 50t line mech to move at ice ferret speeds, I was anticipating the wolves building a lighter design that moved faster. We had no indication what the stormwolf WAS until fairly recently, much less what tonnage it would be, or what role it was intended for.
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Is that not what the Wulfen already is?
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It's censored because I am not permitted to speak of it, due to my prior zeal in arguing over it. PM me if you're still stuck.
I'll say it then since it actually took me awhile to figure it out: Woodsman!
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I'll say it then since it actually took me awhile to figure it out: Woodsman!
Oh yeah, that wasn't on the list. I think I had mentally already added it and that's why I didn't see it. Thanks.
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Is that not what the Wulfen already is?
Well, maybe it's time to start fielding whole stars and naries of homogenous designs, since We are the new star league again and both TRO 3145 and the iRCGs show the wolves doing exactly that. But I still find a star that's a mix of two or three designs more interesting and versatile than five to ten of the same mech.
Which is why it's be sweet if the Phantom were back on the menu, it's the only wolf Omni that properly keeps up with a wulfen. And the storm wolf makes a nice partner to the Skinwalker in the same way.
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While you are fretting about which of the four medium OmniMechs Clan Wolf builds you should use, I am still stuck using the same Viper I had in 1990, which was out of production for most of the Republic Era.
I would kill for a heavy Omni bigger than 65 tons. The Wulfen has grabbed the 30 ton 10/15 slot so I guess I am stuck with Firemoths for another 30 years. A hundred ton Omni would be nice, given the Wolves have two. An assault Omni with side torso armor would be nice now the Kingfisher is solidly Raven.
So forgive me if not having an OmniMech that quite matches the movement profile of a Wulfen seems like IlClan problems.
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While you are fretting about which of the four medium OmniMechs Clan Wolf builds you should use, I am still stuck using the same Viper I had in 1990, which was out of production for most of the Republic Era.
I would kill for a heavy Omni bigger than 65 tons. The Wulfen has grabbed the 30 ton 10/15 slot so I guess I am stuck with Firemoths for another 30 years. A hundred ton Omni would be nice, given the Wolves have two. An assault Omni with side torso armor would be nice now the Kingfisher is solidly Raven.
So forgive me if not having an OmniMech that quite matches the movement profile of a Wulfen seems like IlClan problems.
Dont worry,with how he plays they will be bear mechs soon enough ;).
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While you are fretting about which of the four medium OmniMechs Clan Wolf builds you should use, I am still stuck using the same Viper I had in 1990, which was out of production for most of the Republic Era.
I would kill for a heavy Omni bigger than 65 tons. The Wulfen has grabbed the 30 ton 10/15 slot so I guess I am stuck with Firemoths for another 30 years. A hundred ton Omni would be nice, given the Wolves have two. An assault Omni with side torso armor would be nice now the Kingfisher is solidly Raven.
So forgive me if not having an OmniMech that quite matches the movement profile of a Wulfen seems like IlClan problems.
Hey man, you have the yellow beemer, I'm just a pleb. One of us is a lot closer to being able to influence these matters than the other.
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Hehehehe.
Battletech has momentum. It is hard to fight. There is stuff I have been championing for 15 years I have had no luck with. OTOH spur of the moment stuff can slip through in months.
Some of the momentum stuff is really weird. Eg the Bears miss out on Omnis because they are usually the 4th or 5th Clan fleshed out, by which stage the line is exploring quirky BattleMechs. FWL suffers something similar. Timing is the difference between getting a RAC or getting a MRM.
An example where it hit the Wolves is JumpShips. Clan Wolf's favourite JumpShips were fleshed out before TRO3057 was a thing so they use the traditional four. This meant they miss out on the LF equipped Odyssey and Tramp of the Bears and Nova Cats.
So because I look at BattleTech in cycles and waves I have a pretty cynic outlook. It is no one's fault, but it has an effect.
That said, get ready for RecGuides Wave 4. This is a pretty balanced wave with good stuff for most Clans.
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That said, get ready for RecGuides Wave 4. This is a pretty balanced wave with good stuff for most Clans.
Need an upvote button. :)
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Can't wait to see the new surprises and T configs
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When is wave 4 supposed to start?
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Estimates say the end of this month.
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And I love our little monkey OmniMech friend. But as you say, pod space is at a premium.
I wish the little red monkey had managed to make it into the IS- love the art, love the mini, and REALLY want to use it more on a table. IIRC the old discussion between the Lanner and Langur is that the Langur is more efficient when it comes to the engine (but by a small amount?) . . . but that is offset by the Lanner being more widespread and in production longer as well as being in the IS.
With that said, both designs have to use the more weight efficient weapons- like ERMLs, SRMs & LRMs to have effective configs. IIRC we got a few interesting RecGuide versions though I am not sure they really exploited what the chassis could do with the latest equipment. If I was a Falcon, I might want a Lanner config built as a design that could chase down Wulfen, Phantoms, and Ice Ferrets as a skirmisher to kill scouts. It would also work well against known Republic speedsters . . . might even deter the Scaphas.
While the Lanner has come out in the RecGuides, I wish we had gotten it as a Lanner II where the MASC was replaced with SC . . . and maybe TSM, to take advantage of the possible heat.
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So, I went over some TROs, looking primarily at Wolf used designs. I started going through all the published iRCGs, TRO GC, the XTRO Republic books, TRO3145 The Clans... If someone else could check TRO3150, it'd be appreciated.
I've got, from those recent books, 10 examples of stars or larger formations being composed of homogenous designs rather than a mixture of them. I thought there were a couple of references to this, but 10, 7 of them from Clan Wolf, 1 the Sea Foxes, 1 the Falcons, 1 the Bears, tells me that I may indeed be justified in fielding homogenous stars or binaries where desired.
"Before the Republic arrived to take possession, Clan Wolf raiders, apparently operating with inside knowledge, sprang out of hiding to capture the valuable shipment. Among the forces guarding the shipment was a star of Coyotls." - Coyotl Entry, TRO: Golden Century
Several Stars of Dominators belonging to the Ninth Wolf Guard Striker Cluster engaged the Eleventh Triarii after the Eleventh failed to kill Khan Ward in an artillery ambush. - Dominator Entry iRCG1
Seth reported that his Star of Goliath Cs was instrumental in destroying the pirate base. - Goliath C Entro , iRCG1
Star Commander Rojas and his Star of five Sojourner Primes were ambushed by an ad-hoc Falcon force, led by Star Captain Jessica Helmer in her Shrike. - Soujourner, iRCG2
Damian Ward’s Thresher II Star accounted for more than twice their number in kills, and there is no doubt that effective use of the ’Mech contributed to the battle’s quick outcome. - iRCG4, Thresher II entry
Solahma and technicians used two Stars of brand new Ice Ferrets to hold off a Trinary of advancing Falcons intent on taking the Site 3 factory - Ice Ferret entry, iRCG4
A Binary of Timber Wolfs engaged the Rhodes Foundry security forces from beyond the effective range of most of the huge weapons platforms’ arsenals, while nimbly evading what return fire the RAF troops were able to muster. - iRCG5, Timber Wolf
While heavier Dominion ’Mechs held the perimeter, Charlie Striker Star, consisting entirely of Vipers, provided the mobile reserve. - iRCG8 Viper Entry. Bears rather than wolves, but still.
A Star of Novas from the Fifty-Third Falcon Talon intercepted and neutralized elements of the First Wolf Legion Cluster attempting to screen Grand Duke Martin Kell’s evacuation from Old Connaught. - iRCG 14. falcons, but also evidence
Galaxy Commander Alaric Wolf decided that the best way to demoralize the Lyrans was to crush their infamous “wall of steel” with his own. He gathered together a Binary of elite pilots with Tomahawk IIs to meet and defeat the Second Royal Guards defending the Nagelring TRO 3145 Clans, Tomahawk II Entry
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Sorry to burst the bubble but several of those sections do not indicate what you want.
Coyotl, Ice Ferret, Nova, Tomahawk II (special case), maybe Goliath C (what rank was Seth?) . . . possibly even the Dominator.
Coyotl, Nova and Dominator are from fights involving a larger formations, though the phrasing on the Dominator can give some doubt. Simply, because a star (note not named nor capitalized) is a standard Clan measurement, it would be like saying a Lyran regiment has a few lances of Atlases assigned.
The Ice Ferret and Tomahawk II reference were special cases- the former where a ad hoc defense was formed using what the factory produces, like the Bounty Hunter mounting up in a Marauder II in TP Irian. The Tomahawk II reference specifically says Alaric gathered the binary together as part of the operation . . . THOUGH IIRC, the same book says the formation had not been broken up yet in the unit section.
The Timber Wolf reference- again a not named or capitalized formation- could have been what was bid to reduce the defenses. I know if it was static defenses, I would not mind running around in Timber Wolf Primes, Cs & Es which would safely have kept me out of the defender's 'heavy' weapons range.
The only ones that are concrete IMO would be Sojourner (b/c they were new equipment & new formation), Thresher II, and the Vipers of Charlie Striker Star with maybe the Goliath Cs if Seth is a Star Commander. If he is a Star Captain or Star Colonel, we are left with units that could be spread over the Trinary/Cluster.
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The Phonebook and the firefight mode of MechWarrior II set the precedents for me that Clan stars were not homogeneous. Only Artillery is like that.
But I would not rule them out, either.
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Sorry to burst the bubble but several of those sections do not indicate what you want.
Eh "Want" is going a bit far.
my preferred organization is a "3x Mech A, 2x Mech B" Star, OR "1x Mech A, 2x Mech B, 2x Mech C" Star. I like having some variety there. The only, current case, in which I really want to field 5x Mech A, is the Wulfen. Even then, if we picked Phantoms back up, 3x Wulfen 2x Phantoms would be acceptable.
The Phonebook and the firefight mode of MechWarrior II set the precedents for me that Clan stars were not homogeneous. Only Artillery is like that.
Personally, I find most of those phonebook stars... wanting. They work... okay if you never worry about movement from battle a to battle b, and just appear on your postage stamp sized map to fight the enemy. But I'm not going to want to, on the strategic level, chain an ice ferret to a dire wolf, or a wulfen to a tomahawk II.
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Personally, I find most of those phonebook stars... wanting. They work... okay if you never worry about movement from battle a to battle b, and just appear on your postage stamp sized map to fight the enemy. But I'm not going to want to, on the strategic level, chain an ice ferret to a dire wolf, or a wulfen to a tomahawk II.
Yeah, playing battleforce is interesting. Stratops now... but when you're play battletech it's like, "I've got these four or five mechs! they're all different!"
and in Battleforce you're usually stacking mechs with similar movement or weapons profiles together. "This is an LRM lance." and, "Everybody in this lance is 4/6."
Kind of makes playing regular battletech maps weird after that... like, you know you'd never group those mechs together.
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All of which is true. I'd say it cones down to personal taste. One off battles were my stock in trade.
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Personally, I find most of those phonebook stars... wanting. They work... okay if you never worry about movement from battle a to battle b, and just appear on your postage stamp sized map to fight the enemy. But I'm not going to want to, on the strategic level, chain an ice ferret to a dire wolf, or a wulfen to a tomahawk II.
One thing to remember (and something that can kind of ruin things) is that the Wolf phonebook roster specifically says it was the organization and units as of 2 weeks prior to Tukayyid. So while you end up with some unusual mixes (Dire Wolf in a light star) that may not be the normal assignment.
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That's true as well.
Those arrangements we see in the phonebooks are unusual, but it really shows that any combination a player can devise is acceptable. It's a timeless standing order.
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I do fine the phone books useful despite it not being exciting. It shows mixture and possibilities having force configuration.
Recon, Nova setups. I know people rather not have too much detail, but i think it helps out. It shows how Clusters down to trinary or Star could behave differently. Not everyone is going know or come up with something they hadn't thought was possible.
While not in front of me, the Wolf Sourcebook (phone book) had original/interesting Star/Trinary configurations.
Modern Wolf Empire/Clan Wolf & Jade Falcons toumans in the Dark Age given mix availability of Mechs and other equipment would made for some interesting to field without going bland generic star 5 mechs, go.
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My personal preference is to take the formation names and check them versus the formation building rules (last seen in Campaign Ops I think). If the formation still fits the name great, if not I try to tweak it to make it work.
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My personal preference is to take the formation names and check them versus the formation building rules (last seen in Campaign Ops I think). If the formation still fits the name great, if not I try to tweak it to make it work.
Does not work for the Invasion Wolves- their 'assault' clusters were for the role not really the weight. They buy into the 'firstest with the mostest' of mobile warfare . . . though to be fair, I wish we got a good invasion LB-10X & UAC/10 Gargoyle version . . . the C's UAC/20 is nice but I would not mind something with a bit more range to mix with energy & missile weapons.
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I just want to take a moment to perch someplace high and howl at THE Moon. Terra's glorious satellite, Luna. As only a Wolf of the ilClan can properly do.
To take a moment to deny eight years of every insane theory grasped at, every epileptic tree planted to desperately deny the plot being foreshadowed.
No, the ilclan is not the Not-Named. It is not the Republic who has reinvented themselves into a clan. It is not Clan Wolf in Exile secretly arriving before the Falcons or Wolves could penetrate the Fortress. It is not a home clan. It is not a cat, Spirit or Nova. It is not the Fidelis throwing off their cloaks and going "we were jaguars all along, and we got here first!" It is not the society. It is not the burrocks. it is not the Hell's Horses. It is not the Sea Foxes. It is not the Diamond Sharks either. It is not a zombie clan mongoose. It is not the Snow Ravens, Scoprions of the Empirio. It is not the Wolf's Dragoons claiming themselves to be the TRUE Clan Wolf. It is not the Ghost Bears. It is not some clever ruse. It is one of the two foreshadowed clans set up as the contenders for the title, won fair and square.
And had it gone differently, had Malvina and her mad mongols won the day, I would still have taken joy in the fall of the republic, the death of a faction whose very basis is anathema to the game in which it exists. But that did not come to pass. We are not headed into the xteenth repetition of "Total War engulfs the sphere and a battle for our very survival is on, as Malvina's mongol horde threatens to drag all of existence screaming into the void"
Deny. Bargain. Rage. Despair. Run your AU where things go differently. But at the end of the day, you have to accept that Canoically, Clan Wolf is ilClan, Clan above Clans.
One day, the wheel will turn far enough that the Wolves will fall, I have no doubt. But no one can say that we did not in this moment, achieve the dream of all clans, to conquer Terra and set about the business of reestablishing the Star League.
Ironically, if the Wolf led Star League gets traction, it gives the game the perfect reason for a high stakes battle to be fought by a force you can fit on an afternoon's gametable. Clan Trials. There's no need for disarmament, artificial scarcity, or any of the dark age silliness, if people are fighting Trials, rather than naked and unrestrained wars.
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And you'll get to kill the Horses.
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And you'll get to kill the Horses.
Kill them? I rather hope not. I want us to be done with "and now your faction is condemned to death" for awhile. Very badly. Especially since we've converted the Jade Falcons and Smoke Jaguars, our historical rivals into contextual allies.
But, bully them until they acknowledge the will of the founder? Humble them a little for their tantrum? Take that Dire Wolf plant they have no business running? Win production rights to the Epona? That I could get behind.
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Kill them? I rather hope not. I want us to be done with "and now your faction is condemned to death" for awhile. Very badly. Especially since we've converted the Jade Falcons and Smoke Jaguars, our historical rivals into contextual allies.
But, bully them until they acknowledge the will of the founder? Humble them a little for their tantrum? Take that Dire Wolf plant they have no business running? Win production rights to the Epona? That I could get behind.
I hope they build a cluster of Ulrich clones in brand new Gargoyles and unleash them on you. ;)
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. . . WHY was the Cameron at Titan scuttled? It got tore up at THE SHIPYARD! You scuttle things when you cannot get them BACK to a shipyard to repair and to keep them out of enemy hands.
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Kill them? I rather hope not. I want us to be done with "and now your faction is condemned to death" for awhile. Very badly. Especially since we've converted the Jade Falcons and Smoke Jaguars, our historical rivals into contextual allies.
But, bully them until they acknowledge the will of the founder? Humble them a little for their tantrum? Take that Dire Wolf plant they have no business running? Win production rights to the Epona? That I could get behind.
Only the crusaders the ones that remain will have to rebuild and clean up the mess the Wolves and Falcons left behind. Hopefully like the Ghost Bears they emerge stronger and united with their Inner Sphere counterparts. Then the iClan will get a real fight (and needed bloody nose at least).
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I think people expecting Clan Ghost Bear to revolt and reject the ilClan are going to be disappointed. The only inner sphere clan we have any canon indication of non-compliance from, thus far, has been the Hell's Horses.
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I think people expecting Clan Ghost Bear to revolt and reject the ilClan are going to be disappointed. The only inner sphere clan we have any canon indication of non-compliance from, thus far, has been the Hell's Horses.
The only comparison I was using was how the Ghost Bears treat their Inner Sphere subjects. From what I have read everyone except the Hells Horses are just sitting and waiting. What happened next is anyone’s guess.
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I think people expecting Clan Ghost Bear to revolt and reject the ilClan are going to be disappointed. The only inner sphere clan we have any canon indication of non-compliance from, thus far, has been the Hell's Horses.
oh no, the Bears said they will wait on their own investigation into the validity of the Trial and the death of Mulvina before agreeing to it, and that they didn't raise any objections during the appointment, that is not compliance, that is just not raising objections (I wonder if the Bears have Tucker), there's even a sidebar from the wolves watch telling the Ilkhan to be careful with the Bears because they might know something that they (the wolves) don't want the public to know, Say hi to CGB official ethics committee to the Star league :D ;D we have a larger military than you now and a key through the fortress, be nice to the sheeple or we wake up :thumbsup:
On a less silly note, I don't think the Bears will go against the wolves at least for a while, I think we're being set up to be hit by the Dracs... again, so that the Gunji-no-something/Coordinator thing can be sorted and to give the Suns the ability to reclaim worlds from them, and while that makes me happy for the Suns that they get to come back and evolve as a faction, I'm kinda mixed about the Dracs, they get to have some faction development (That the Bears kinda need, we've spent 100 years in the IS we need to actually develop please TPTB, sleepy bear is getting tropey, memey and bad for the setting and the faction, so is Stone worshiping), but we get to have a chunk taken out of us for the sake of someone else's story (Death of the Cats for both 1st and 2nd Combine/Dominion wars) and quite frankly our Watch/Mirmir should know about the Ashigaru program or they've taken the stupid pills for the third time..., let the Dracs have a civil war to sort it out, do something different for the Bear's and Drac's.
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The logical way to stable ilClan is a stable power at it's center. Frankly, that's the main issue. Wolf is weaken from the efforts, frankly I'm very surprised "rules" of ilClan say you can't Trial or Rebel against weaker power taking central control. Which means, not the way of the Clans.
If previous source books such as FM:3145 can be taken into account, the leadership of the Dominion's Clan side has gotten more conservative.
It hard me to say that means they more traditionalist, or don't want change.
Wolves seem to flirt with same ruling style of the Dominion, but its hard to say with campaigning to take Terra and lack of FM/ERA book about how Empire is.
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The logical way to stable ilClan is a stable power at it's center. Frankly, that's the main issue. Wolf is weaken from the efforts, frankly I'm very surprised "rules" of ilClan say you can't Trial or Rebel against weaker power taking central control. Which means, not the way of the Clans.
[snip]
Wolves seem to flirt with same ruling style of the Dominion, but its hard to say with campaigning to take Terra and lack of FM/ERA book about how Empire is.
That's part of the problem, the no trial rule is literally Alric saying "no" to the Horses and that's it, there's nothing stopping the Horses saying "yes" via an invasion and ATM i don't think the wolves would stand a Cat in the Combine's chance of winning other than Plot armour, maybe Tamar Rising will weaken the Horses enough to give the IlClan a chance at survival.
As for how the Wolves treat there non-cast member civilians, it depends on who's writing about them it seems, I think it was covered in this thread that the Wolves pre-Wolf Empire were not nice, but no info on Wolf Empire treatment.
The Bear leadership stuff i think we should take to our own den before we anger what's left of the Wolves ^-^
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That's part of the problem, the no trial rule is literally Alric saying "no" to the Horses and that's it, there's nothing stopping the Horses saying "yes" via an invasion and ATM i don't think the wolves would stand a Cat in the Combine's chance of winning other than Plot armour, maybe Tamar Rising will weaken the Horses enough to give the IlClan a chance at survival.
As for how the Wolves treat there non-cast member civilians, it depends on who's writing about them it seems, I think it was covered in this thread that the Wolves pre-Wolf Empire were not nice, but no info on Wolf Empire treatment.
The Bear leadership stuff i think we should take to our own den before we anger what's left of the Wolves ^-^
It really depends on if the Ghost Bears don't maul the Horses. If the Ghost Bears are willing to act as an arm of the Star League army then they'll just squash them.
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The Horses cannot get through the Fortress wall themselves yet, giving the Wolves months to repair, heal and move forces in preparation. Sure, it is no longer the 14 galaxy (+3 regiment & 1 oversized Warden galaxy) that participated on Terra but they are also going to be better troops than what the Horses could bring. Seven (at least, more likely 9) Wolf galaxies, one Falcon galaxy (and bs, there are more than that left), a galaxy or two of Jaguars, and oh yeah, 10+ warships with flotillas of assault DS . . . the Horses could not bring enough to take Terra, especially in contesting the ilClanship they would be considered dezgra by the forces on Terra.
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They've got the Falcons too. But there are only like.. three clusters of them alive. That being said, I don't think there were many more Wolves alive either. The way the Falcons fought means that it won't be as easy as just giving people time to heal. They were murdering warriors left and right.
Not that I think it really matters. We know they win from products with blurbs from the future.
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But we don't know what the Horses do in the meantime. Or the Bears.
But we do know what the Sea Foxes do. We profit. ::)
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They've got the Falcons too. But there are only like.. three clusters of them alive. That being said, I don't think there were many more Wolves alive either. The way the Falcons fought means that it won't be as easy as just giving people time to heal. They were murdering warriors left and right.
Not that I think it really matters. We know they win from products with blurbs from the future.
Yeah, already gone through how that nonsense of 40 warriors left was wrong. And even saying the Wolves had only 50% of their force left from the start is the least likely outcome- so say 7.5 galaxies . . . probably closer to 9 of the 15+ at the start of the invasion.
But I will circle back, WTF with the Bloody Paw.
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They've got the Falcons too. But there are only like.. three clusters of them alive. That being said, I don't think there were many more Wolves alive either. The way the Falcons fought means that it won't be as easy as just giving people time to heal. They were murdering warriors left and right.
Not that I think it really matters. We know they win from products with blurbs from the future.
The Wolves were at 80% strength and landed with 14 galaxies, not counting the Exiles and Dragoons.
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They've got the Falcons too. But there are only like.. three clusters of them alive. That being said, I don't think there were many more Wolves alive either. The way the Falcons fought means that it won't be as easy as just giving people time to heal. They were murdering warriors left and right.
Not that I think it really matters. We know they win from products with blurbs from the future.
I thought only about one cluster was all that remained
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One cluster is a BS number in the first place- their aerospace forces remaining orbit alone provide more than a cluster of troops.
I am assuming that 80% strength is mentioned in a section I have not gotten to yet. But Republic bondsmen were freed on the eve of battle to join the touman to fight the Falcons. Further, those 20% would have been personnel losses- the Wolves had brought spare equipment as well as salvaging what they could- which means about 3 galaxies of troops KIA or WIA from fighting the RAF . . . and those WIA were not in a position to join in fighting the Falcons. Make that 20% 50/50 (which is never is, but suppose) it means the Wolves should regain roughly 1.5 galaxies of troops back from the injured rosters.
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But we don't know what the Horses do in the meantime. Or the Bears.
But we do know what the Sea Foxes do. We profit. ::)
we know what the bears will do... sleep, then get attacked by the Drac's, it's what we do
Also Wolves have a number of units using WoB/C* unit structure, thanks to a certain Bear, you'd think that even now doing anything remotely WoBby would be a no no
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Starting a new thread since we're nearly to the cap on this one.
New Thread (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/clan-chatterweb/terra-home-to-ilclan-wolf/)
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Do we spam for the Empire?
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Or can a mod shut her down if Kitsune asks?
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(https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.236dd17c325c5a7719b032ab12206742?rik=D1B98tUhco1iZw&pid=ImgRaw&r=0)
Oops, wrong Empire.
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Wow, this never got a update . . .
Our group did a Trial of Bloodright Grand Melee for Invasion Era, 3k BV set with pilots adjusted to get to 3k and you got to pick a SPA worth up to 2 points. We had a mix of Jumping Jack, Range Master, one Lucky, and a few Hot Dogs spread between Omnis and Clan standards. Funny enough, the last four were 2 Jumping Jacks and 2 Hot Dogs.
I took a Arcas I had painted up over 20 years ago for a Warden Wolf secondline cluster which got me a 3/5 pilot and I took the Jumping Jack SPA b/c the map originally was supposed to be more paved and with buildings. Killed a Stormcrow C that was a range master that got in close where I could use the buildings to skip it's long & med ranges for the LBX & LPL . . . shots to the center torso and then 2 of 3 SSRM4s hit, 4 CT crits in that turn got the gyro by the 2nd crit. Unfortunately I ended up falling from 22 points of damage that turn which made getting out of range of the Warhawk a problem.
Avoided a Warhawk H with range master that had put a bit of LPL fire on me while chasing the Stormcrow. It put my RT down to 1 IS & no crits from HLL, LPL and LRM hits on that single location but I killed it that turn blowing out it's CT. Which started me chewing on a Warhammer IIC 2 that had walked across the map to mess with me after a Vapor Eagle and Mad Dog B died in the middle of the map. The WHM's pilot could not hit anything that day- ERPPC Needs 7, rolls 6 like the MegaMek trope . . . and the one hit he did score went into a building shielding my legs . . . then he got caught by a avoiding Shadow Cat M and what remained of a Thunderbolt C 2.
It came down to the Shadow Cat M having to chase down my Arcas until he lost the Large Pulse.
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So it is official, we have at least a Galaxy of Blackwatch Forces, quiaff?
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So it is official, we have at least a Galaxy of Blackwatch Forces, quiaff?
Where would this have been official?
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I was still wondering why it appeared in this topic.