!sis Marik: wench of princes, political pawn, or tragic heroine?

[Lazarus Jaguar]

I know that, The Master ignored his own daughter to and allowed the Imposter the man who would become Thomas Halas to supplement his line on the FWL throne. It looks like he didn't care though.

Maybe he was just too busy looking for his pants at the time? (see the cover of JHS:FR)

[Lore]

I have a feeling that after Sun Tzu abandoned her and her Fathers indifference, there weren't exactly a lot of suitors lining up.

I seriously doubt all of her potential suitors would've been so narrowly-minded. Regardless of her previous relationships, she has a personality and ability all her own, and I don't think the entirety of future potential suitors of nobility would be as concerned about such historical facts.

[Liam's Ghost]

A pawn, I don't think she ever figured out that Sun Tzu used her as a cheese in a mousetrap and that her survival was contrary to plan.

She did. He told her. To her face.

[PsihoKekec]

Missed that one.

[Cerberus_02]

She did. He told her. To her face.

I never did like Sun-Tzu all that much, but that scene sealed the deal for me; particularly given Isis's obvious feelings for him.

[MadCapellan]

She did. He told her. To her face.

Like a pimp!

Seriously, though.  I've always read that as him making the breakup easier on her.  It's easier to get over someone you think is an ******.

[Greyhind]

I voted mediocre. Multiple engagements isn't really shockingly normal by the standards of make believe royalty. The first three options all have a small ring of truth because her main role in the universe is to marry princes but that shouldn't have defined her life.

I'm not saying that she needed to be a patron of orphanages or a warrior but she would have been a better character if she had asked STL or VSD to spare some cash for her favourite theatre. As it is, she might as well be a brick.

[Cerberus_02]

I've always read that as him making the breakup easier on her.

Except, you know, she truly loved him...

[MadCapellan]

Except, you know, she truly loved him...

If I loved someone, and they told me "I'm sorry, this just isn't working out/it's not you it's me/etc" I'd be devastated.  If they where a complete jerk about it, my reaction would more likely be "Whoa, glad I dodged a bullet there!"

My advice to friends who want to break up with someone but not make them feel bad has always been to be a complete jerk.  Nobody pines for someone who was a dick.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

That might be believable if, you know, Sun Tsu actually cared about other people.

Also, I question how many relationships you've actually been in if you think that's true.

[MadCapellan]

That might be believable if, you know, Sun Tsu actually cared about other people.

Also, I question how many relationships you've actually been in if you think that's true.

Plenty.  Seen people on the recieving end.  Works like a charm.  Certainly better than the "Oh, I'm sorry" crap I always got.

As for the Chancellor, anyone who says he doesn't care for people doesn't know the first thing about Sun-Tzu Liao.  You may not agree with the way he acts on those feelings, but everything Sun-Tzu does is for the benefit of his people.

[Cerberus_02]

Nobody pines for someone who was a dick.

Except, you know, Sun-Tzu wasn't a dick to Isis.  So, yeah...

[MadCapellan]

Except, you know, Sun-Tzu wasn't a dick to Isis.  So, yeah...

Most people would consider "Man, too bad you didn't die" to be a dick thing to say...

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

And if you think that's that was enough to kill several years worth of feelings instantly, you're at best utterly naive.

[Black Mist]

She and Omi got bored one day an-

BANNED!

I regret nothing!

 >:( man, talk about bad taste!

I looked on Isis as someone that was trying to make a go with someone she truly cared about, but could not understand that he could not love her back without compromising his responsibilities. I voted tragic.

But then again since Chancellor=State, (and that most marriages for nobles are not from love) she should not have been expecting much else. Isis should have sent a thank you note to her step-mother.......flowers (from Victor Steiner-Davion of course)

[MadCapellan]

And if you think that's that was enough to kill several years worth of feelings instantly, you're at best utterly naive.

Instantly?  No, but a hell of a lot easier to get over, as she obviously did.

I doubt very much most people spend large amounts of time pining for people who desire their demise.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

She'd have gotten over it just as easily if he'd said "Isis, I love you, but as Chancellor I must marry based off the needs of my realm, not the needs of my heart."  As it was, all he did was rub salt in the wound.

[Cerberus_02]

Most people would consider "Man, too bad you didn't die" to be a dick thing to say...

Except, you know, he wasn't a dick to her, prior to that statement.  So, yeah...

[MadCapellan]

She'd have gotten over it just as easily if he'd said "Isis, I love you, but as Chancellor I must marry based off the needs of my realm, not the needs of my heart."  As it was, all he did was rub salt in the wound.

Hahahaha!  That wouldn't do the trick at all.  There'd always be that thought of "If only..." and "What could have been...."  Better to be put down hard and have no regrets.  It's simply selfishness to not want to be the bad guy, but some situations call for it.  Fear of confrontation has got to be in the top three causes of relationship problems...

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

You honestly think that a brutal put-down doesn't cause regrets or might have beens?  You are naive.

[MadCapellan]

You honestly think that a brutal put-down doesn't cause regrets or might have beens?  You are naive.

Not if you've got any sense of self-worth.  Still having feelings for someone who wants you dead is looney Stockholm syndrome stuff.

[Cerberus_02]

Still having feelings for someone who wants you dead is looney Stockholm syndrome stuff.

Except you're implying Isis is dumb enough not to understand political necessity.  It's not like she was unaware of her "father's" reluctance to end the engagement and move on to the wedding, among other things.

[MadCapellan]

Except you're implying Isis is dumb enough not to understand political necessity.  It's not like she was unaware of her "father's" reluctance to end the engagement and move on to the wedding, among other things.

Political realities don't change emotions.  The realization that someone isn't who you thought they were and wishes you ill does.

[roosterboy]

Not if you've got any sense of self-worth.  Still having feelings for someone who wants you dead is looney Stockholm syndrome stuff.

Human emotions are messy, unpredictable things that often are not at all what the person involved would want for themselves. Expecting Isis to just turn off her previous love for Sun-Tzu because he was a dick to her is unrealistic. People in real life go for years in relationships where the other person treats them poorly (even worse than what STL does to Isis) so why should we expect fictional characters to act as ideal specimens of human behavior?

[Cerberus_02]

Political realities don't change emotions.  The realization that someone isn't who you thought they were and wishes you ill does.

Good of you to admit that Sun-Tzu suddenly acting like a dick at the end wasn't justifiable.

[MadCapellan]

I guess I just don't expect Isis to be that unstable, is all.  I don't think much of her character, but she seems to have a strong sense of self-esteem from what I've read of her.

Good of you to admit that Sun-Tzu suddenly acting like a dick at the end wasn't justifiable.

No, it's perfectly justifiable.  Convincing her he was a dick was the best thing he could do for her.

[Cerberus_02]

No, it's perfectly justifiable.  Convincing her he was a dick was the best thing he could do for her.

Going to have to agree with MLO4H; you are quite naive.

[roosterboy]

I guess I just don't expect Isis to be that unstable, is all.

How is it at all unstable to not be able to switch your emotions on and off like some kind of robot? That's not unstable, that's human.

[MadCapellan]

Going to have to agree with MLO4H; you are quite naive.

Think what you will, but I'll stand by my statement.  Creating a facade of compassion for someone you ultimately desire to end your relationship with only generates misunderstandings, lingering attachment & disappointment.  In general, this "compassion" is not something someone does for the benefit of the person being let go, but is a selfish desire to relieve the guilt of the rejecting party.  It's far better to cut things off clean.  It's far more thoughtful to the rejected party.

How is it at all unstable to not be able to switch your emotions on and off like some kind of robot? That's not unstable, that's human.

For most of us, self-preservation is a dominant instinct.  If someone attacks you or, for example, wishes you dead, for myself, I make an immediate break with that person emotionally, and in my experience, many do the same.  Anyone who doesn't is bound for serious suffering.  My condolences to those who can't.

[Dread Moores]

It's far better to cut things off clean.  It's far more thoughtful to the rejected party.

Agreed. But I'm not sure why being a jerk is the only way to have a clean break. That seems rather limiting.