Author Topic: What new technology for 3150  (Read 80931 times)

Atlas3060

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #210 on: 18 August 2011, 21:18:30 »
Except there's that new Hunchback being produced by the Republic. ;)
Lots of Ford cars being made to but specific versions are classic.
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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #211 on: 18 August 2011, 21:20:33 »
What do you guys honestly think of faction-specific technology?

I'd like a smattering... each major faction hanging on to 3-5 pieces of tech they basically have a monopoly on.

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Dread Moores

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #212 on: 18 August 2011, 21:29:05 »
What do you guys honestly think of faction-specific technology?

I think what's been done since the start of the Jihad is the smart way to go about it. It stays faction specific for a period of time, slowly trickling out to a wider distribution.

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #213 on: 18 August 2011, 21:30:42 »
I think what's been done since the start of the Jihad is the smart way to go about it. It stays faction specific for a period of time, slowly trickling out to a wider distribution.

I love the idea of Faction Specific Tech, but this makes more sense to me.
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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #214 on: 18 August 2011, 22:16:58 »
Realism is not going to cut it, Battletech is not a realistic universe by any stretch of the imagination, so please stop using it in an argument.

And is now part of my signature...............
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Fallen_Raven

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #215 on: 18 August 2011, 22:17:18 »
What do you guys honestly think of faction-specific technology?

It makes for a better army list. That is infact the very reason I don't want faction specific technology to become normal. I like the idea that everyone plays by the same rules, barring the differences in Clantech, and that anyone can put a particular toy on a 'mech if they feel the need. So keep the FWL love of Light Guass, nobody but the Combine should mount very many MRMs, and every Cap Con lance should contain at least one Plasma Rifle*, but all of them should be options everyone can select occanionally. Though I would like to seethe first units mounting "off-faction" tech be slightly less efficient in their designs for flavor.

* This statement is based of of the variety of quality units that make use of the weapon, most which would serve well in any unit.
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Previn

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #216 on: 18 August 2011, 22:25:13 »
Except doing that pretty much balances it by having everyone use the same equipment. Thats not really balance.

Actually, that's exactly balance. In fact it's close to the text book definition of balance. You might want to say boring, but then you'd have to explain how the IS all having the same tech isn't boring now, or how all the clans having the same tech isn't boring now.

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Why mix tech when you can just make Clan versions of Inner sphere equipment and not even bother?

Really? No, really? Did you completely ignore the whole premise of my argument? There is NO REASON for IS tech to be so far behind Clan tech. Letting the clans use IS grade tech doesn't solve or explain why the IS is still using the same lasers/missiles when they clearly should be producing better, especially by 3150.

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This pretty much puts us back to square one with the Clantech/ISTech divide, except it will be Clantech/Clantech MK2... while rendering Inner Sphere level 2 in the same spot as Inner Sphere level 1, completely worthless and used only by completely obsolete units.

Nope, that's a guess by you, and it's not only short sighted, it shows a lack of vision and a clear bias. 'Different' doesn't have to mean "always better." ATMs are a great example of this (iATMs less so). TO carry this example out further...

The IS gets up to clan grade launchers by 3150. However they don't develop ATMs, instead sticking with MMLs and improving those. Now, you have better balance, because the LRMs are perfectly equal, and it makes sense in universe, but how the clans and the IS approach variable use racks is significantly different with the divide between ATMs and MMLS. So you have divergent techs with similar rolls rather than 'weapon A is twice as effective than weapon B because A MAGIC WIZARD DID IT.'

WHich is what I've been saying all along.

Previn

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #217 on: 18 August 2011, 22:33:38 »
And is now part of my signature...............

Yeah... BT has realistic trends, and rules that it follows. That it's not real world doesn't mean we can't have logical discussions about what would realistically happen in the universe given those rules and trends that have come before. That it's not a 100% perfect world simulation doesn't matter. We can talk about how realistic battletech is not in the definition of 'real to life' but under the definition of 'showing a sensible and practical idea of what can be achieved or expected' with in the BT universe.

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #218 on: 18 August 2011, 22:41:58 »
So keep the FWL love of Light Guass, nobody but the Combine should mount very many MRMs, and every Cap Con lance should contain at least one Plasma Rifle*, but all of them should be options everyone can select occanionally. Though I would like to seethe first units mounting "off-faction" tech be slightly less efficient in their designs for flavor.

* This statement is based of of the variety of quality units that make use of the weapon, most which would serve well in any unit.

I believe what they're talking about is tech restricted to a particular faction, not as a preference.  I.e, if Light Gauss Rifles were still faction specific, you wouldn't see them on any unit other than one designed by the Leaguers.

Having MRMs available to the Lyrans would allow the odd Lyran unit to be built with MRMs, while the Draconis Combine could produce several more designs with them as they prefer that weapon.
 
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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #219 on: 18 August 2011, 22:56:24 »
I believe what they're talking about is tech restricted to a particular faction, not as a preference.  I.e, if Light Gauss Rifles were still faction specific, you wouldn't see them on any unit other than one designed by the Leaguers.

Having MRMs available to the Lyrans would allow the odd Lyran unit to be built with MRMs, while the Draconis Combine could produce several more designs with them as they prefer that weapon.

I figured that is what was intended. As I said I dislike that idea, but to each their own opinion. I do like the idea of faction preferred equipment, but I don't want to get into the parody range that some units go for. (Seriously, how many IJJ, Partial Wing, Claw/Talon melee 'mechs do the Jade Falcons need?)
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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #220 on: 19 August 2011, 00:20:23 »
I figured that is what was intended. As I said I dislike that idea, but to each their own opinion. I do like the idea of faction preferred equipment, but I don't want to get into the parody range that some units go for. (Seriously, how many IJJ, Partial Wing, Claw/Talon melee 'mechs do the Jade Falcons need?)
I love specific faction tech. It adds more character to each of them, but like he said it can get pretty silly(talons  #P). Its just what make it great, the idea that each faction is trying to gain the upperhand with better tech. And with that, the other factions trying to obtain that technology, slowly distributing it.

[qoute]and to give Clantech to the Inner Sphere you pretty much render the Clans into Inner Sphere minor powers.
[/quote]

PLEASE GOD YES! OH I WOULD REJOYCE SEEING THIS! Not only would this be a great ironic twist in BT history, but i would finally have the last laugh at all those munchkins...

Marwynn

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #221 on: 19 August 2011, 00:55:33 »
Maybe not so much faction "specific" but rather faction "specialty".

Look to 3025. Everyone had the same level of technology, even if the Mariks found it difficult to make PPCs. More or less, everyone had it all in varying amounts. But the FedSuns preferred ACs, the Mariks Lasers (and LRMs), Kuritans PPCs, the CapCon the AC20s I think, and the Lyrans... well, anything big and heavy.

That said, a few new House-specific technologies would make sense given the relative quiet of the last few decades. Surprise, the DCMS has been using LB2Xs and LB5Xs because all the PPCs had to go back for a factory-refit since they are now able to make Clan ER PPCs with a different colour, or something. A characteristic Great House tech would be great, it could just even be weaponry.

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #222 on: 19 August 2011, 07:27:21 »
We've seen what 3150 era tech is like already. It's what we have now with Advanced/Experimental being a bit more widespread. Arguing what SHOULD be seems to be missing the point. I doubt we'll see to much stuff that's 'new' new. Maybe some improved versions of current experimental/advanced tech and some more drifting between Clan and IS 'exclusive' tech.

And the reason the IS doesnt bother to much with replicating Clan Tech (in universe) is it's relatively easy to get, so long as you have the money. The Clans, and the Sea Fox especially, have become another set of factories to buy equipment off of.  It's cheaper to just buy a Marauder IIC from the Sea Fox then it would be to completely upgrade your Marauder factory, and it's supporting infrastructure, to Clan tech.

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #223 on: 19 August 2011, 07:49:14 »
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and to give Clantech to the Inner Sphere you pretty much render the Clans into Inner Sphere minor powers.

Time marches on. Once upon a time Rome, Spain, Britain, and Japan were all great imperial powers. Then time passed them by. By 3150 its been a century since the Clans burst onto the scene in the Inner Sphere. Few living humans even remember a time when the Clans DIDN'T occupy their now traditional territories.

I've been a Northwind Highlanders fan since they were working for the Cappies. They have one world and no unique technology at all. Doesn't keep them from being immensely interesting to me. Why would the Clans be any different?

Frankly, the struggles of a minor power attempting to become something greater or hold onto something they view as important is FAR more interesting to read about than how some uberpower faction steamrolls everything in its path.

One thing to remember as well is that the IS Clans now have access to the vast resources and population bases their Inner Sphere holdings, along with a couple generations for their subjects to adapt to the ways of their Clan overlords. Likewise, the Clans have had a century of interaction with the Inner Sphere as well. Except for the most fanatic members, trade and interaction with the rest of the Inner Sphere is going to make an impact.

While I doubt the number of Trueborn would increase dramatically (they are the warrior elite after all), I could easily see the IS Clans being able to vastly increase the size and scope of their second-line forces via Freebirth recruiting (many of whom hope to become part of the warrior elite if they prove themselves, regardless of how likely that prospect might be).

The warrior elite? They still fight like the Clans, mostly against other Clan warriors and IS factions that still take the concept of honor and individual combat seriously. Its their massive second-line armies that hold and expand their territory against the factions that treat combat as war instead of an honor duel.

Really, I think losing their technological edge makes the Clans more interesting. Nothing remains interesting for long if it remains static and unchanging. Seeing how the IS Clans have adapted to a century of life within the resource rich and culturally diverse Inner Sphere is a gold-mine for interesting stories.

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #224 on: 19 August 2011, 07:54:07 »
Time marches on. Once upon a time Rome, Spain, Britain, and Japan were all great imperial powers. Then time passed them by. By 3150 its been a century since the Clans burst onto the scene in the Inner Sphere. Few living humans even remember a time when the Clans DIDN'T occupy their now traditional territories.
You're bringing up that entire 'realism' thing. That's unhealthy in Battletech.

I'm still having a hard time understanding how in a world of big stompy robots, instant FTL, and people running out of Unobtanium, that 'tech progression' is the big 'that's not realistic' flag that gets tossed up. If you want to complain about THAT, look no further then the Pre-Helm Memory Core IS. 300+ years of technological stagnation and regression, and it's all due to Comstar's HyperAdvancedSuperNinja ROM agency somehow managing to wipe out anyone with more then 2 active brain cells.

Previn

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #225 on: 19 August 2011, 08:14:51 »
It's cheaper to just buy a Marauder IIC from the Sea Fox then it would be to completely upgrade your Marauder factory, and it's supporting infrastructure, to Clan tech.

No, right now in 3080ish that's true. In 70 years time, that's not going to be true. It makes no sense that it's going to remain the same 'cost' for the IS, which we can't even quantify because the actual cost to make clan spec equipment in the IS isn't ever covered as anything more than off-hand 'it's really expensive.'

Even despite the expense, the Houses (and independent companies) are already factually trying to (or have in some cases) setup factories to produce clan spec equipment for themselves. You don't rely on a third party for your military tech.

Quote
You're bringing up that entire 'realism' thing. That's unhealthy in Battletech.

BT has realistic trends, and rules that it follows. That it's not real world doesn't mean we can't have logical discussions about what would realistically happen in the universe given those rules and trends that have come before. That it's not a 100% perfect world simulation doesn't matter. We can talk about how realistic battletech is not in the definition of 'real to life' but under the definition of 'showing a sensible and practical idea of what can be achieved or expected' with in the BT universe.

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #226 on: 19 August 2011, 08:25:40 »

PLEASE GOD YES! OH I WOULD REJOYCE SEEING THIS! Not only would this be a great ironic twist in BT history, but i would finally have the last laugh at all those munchkins...

I want this too.  But for the opposite reason.

I won't be labeled a munchkin just because I like the Clans.

Plus, all the closet munchkins could finally be outed.  You know, the ones that berate the Clans as munchkins, yet whine about how the I.S can't build Clan tech or protomechs...
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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #227 on: 19 August 2011, 08:26:48 »
Even despite the expense, the Houses (and independent companies) are already factually trying to (or have in some cases) setup factories to produce clan spec equipment for themselves. You don't rely on a third party for your military tech.

Except that's a large part of Battletech's history as well. When you start to look closely at which factions produce which designs, you quickly see that trading is rather common, even between mortal enemies. In the post-Jihad era, it becomes even more prevalent.

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #228 on: 19 August 2011, 08:27:12 »
You're bringing up that entire 'realism' thing. That's unhealthy in Battletech.
So is leaving everything static and unchanging. Static and unchanging is boring.

By the same token, did you just read my first paragraph and then do a reactionary kneejerk without reading the rest?

You know... the parts about a struggling minor power being more entertaining to read about and play (everyone loves an underdog)? Maybe the part about the IS Clans also having access to the immense resources and manpower of their occupied territories which would go a long way to keep them from becoming minor powers?

The idea that the Inner Sphere powers would not catch up to the Clans in terms of technology isn't just 'unrealistic' its downright immersion-breaking. It would be a blatent reminder that Battletech is just a game with ficitonal fluff created just to justify game mechanics instead of a coherant fictional universe that also has a game associated with it.

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #229 on: 19 August 2011, 08:35:40 »
So is leaving everything static and unchanging. Static and unchanging is boring.

By the same token, did you just read my first paragraph and then do a reactionary kneejerk without reading the rest?

You know... the parts about a struggling minor power being more entertaining to read about and play (everyone loves an underdog)? Maybe the part about the IS Clans also having access to the immense resources and manpower of their occupied territories which would go a long way to keep them from becoming minor powers?

The idea that the Inner Sphere powers would not catch up to the Clans in terms of technology isn't just 'unrealistic' its downright immersion-breaking. It would be a blatent reminder that Battletech is just a game with ficitonal fluff created just to justify game mechanics instead of a coherant fictional universe that also has a game associated with it.

'IS gets clantech' isn't the only option for advancing.  It's the easiest.  I'd rather ISTech advance in new directions.   

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #230 on: 19 August 2011, 09:04:17 »
Except that's a large part of Battletech's history as well. When you start to look closely at which factions produce which designs, you quickly see that trading is rather common, even between mortal enemies. In the post-Jihad era, it becomes even more prevalent.

Keep in mind that this was a very common practice in medieval times and BattleTech deliberately apes some medieval notions.  Nations may preferentially trade with people they're not fighting - the Lyrans had a lot of dealings with the Suns and Confederation, for instance - but the old House books make it very, very clear that the Houses were trading with each other through the Third Succession War.

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #231 on: 19 August 2011, 09:41:24 »
I just honestly want to see the parallel weapons get merged, replaced, and combined... not a wholesale adoption of the entire clan tech base.

Ferro and endo finally getting to be equalized with the older stuff being maintained only because of the mass of block obsolete stuff still using it with piecemeal refits where possible.   Clan XL becoming the new standard with the older Star League era stuff kept in production for the same reason people keep making after market parts for old cars...  or it is actually a bit cheaper on the pocketbook.  Let the DHS become a nice standard of 2 crits but let the clans keep their laser heat sink and the inner sphere...  ummmm....  right, moving on.

That would be the ONE thing I would kill for... to actually show that clan tech IS more expensive...  as it currently stands, there is little to no actual difference between the costs.  Both factions ER PPC costs 300,000 c-bills so where is the conversion price between the techs?  Both medium pulse lasers run 60k... why NOT buy the clanner laser if available?  Why not invest the money so we don't have to outsource!

So yes, make all the baseline ERs and Pulses equal.  Make the SRMs, LRMs, and Streak SRMs equal.  Make the base Ultra, LB-X, and RACs equal (now that they stupidly gave the clanners the RAC).  If both sides have it, make them equal but put a premium on the C-bill price (which means the designers might actually have to think for two seconds on the economics of their game)... since there is already a premium in terms of BV2.

Pretty much, let the IS and Clans start moving away from each other in parallel techs, away from the 'both do the same but one is just automatically bulkier and inferior despite both being developed within a few years of each other thanks to magic wizard stuff'.  That will actually be nice for the game instead of having to hear the same complaint for two decades of why the heck is my ER Large Laser such a complete joke compared to the other guy and so on and so forth.
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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #232 on: 19 August 2011, 09:50:09 »
I want this too.  But for the opposite reason.

I won't be labeled a munchkin just because I like the Clans.

Plus, all the closet munchkins could finally be outed.  You know, the ones that berate the Clans as munchkins, yet whine about how the I.S can't build Clan tech or protomechs...

So true, why bash the clans when they will eventually be the norm?

Will the IS eventually manufacture clan tech? Possibly, is it good for the game, no, UNLESS the clans go to their next step in tech also.

So yes if you want the IS to make clan tech, sure, but let the clans go to their next step so there is some variance
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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #233 on: 19 August 2011, 10:05:09 »
The problem with moving to a new post-Clantech Clantech is that Clantech is already pushing at the edges of the game's numbers.  Fundamental changes affecting normally fixed values, such as improved ferro-lamellor or hardened armor and reinforced structures that significantly increase real protection and are competitive in tonnage terms, are going to be increasingly necessary to bring sufficient toughness to meet weapons on that level.  At the same time, that imposes significant problems to people who aren't using those systems because they don't have the damage-dealing capabilities that armor exists to counter.  They also won't have the toughness to absorb damage like that.  Balancing that without turning BV into even more of an unnatural kludge is a major headache.

Is it insoluble?  No.  Is it good for the game?  I don't know and I'm not in a good position to judge it; my own views are pessimistic on that point given that we're still fighting out whether Clantech was a good thing over two decades later.  Keep in mind that the Powers That Be are responsible for the health of the game line, not just whether or not developments are logical within the game's narrative.

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #234 on: 19 August 2011, 10:17:25 »
For the love of god... I never thought I would have to repeat myself but apparently my message is not getting through people's thick skulls:

Quote
Realism is not going to cut it, Battletech is not a realistic universe by any stretch of the imagination, so please stop using it in an argument.
Quote
Realism is not going to cut it, Battletech is not a realistic universe by any stretch of the imagination, so please stop using it in an argument.
Quote
Realism is not going to cut it, Battletech is not a realistic universe by any stretch of the imagination, so please stop using it in an argument.
Quote
Realism is not going to cut it, Battletech is not a realistic universe by any stretch of the imagination, so please stop using it in an argument.
Quote
Realism is not going to cut it, Battletech is not a realistic universe by any stretch of the imagination, so please stop using it in an argument.
Quote
Realism is not going to cut it, Battletech is not a realistic universe by any stretch of the imagination, so please stop using it in an argument.

Are you people getting it now? How many times do I have to repeat myself for you people to get it?


Actually, that's exactly balance. In fact it's close to the text book definition of balance. You might want to say boring, but then you'd have to explain how the IS all having the same tech isn't boring now, or how all the clans having the same tech isn't boring now.

The problem is that it also imbalances the geopolitical game because the Clans do not have the massive economies and numbers of the Successor States. If Clan technology was given to the Successor States, you would have to make the Clans the raw numbers and economic power of the Successor States. Are you willing to see the Clans become equal in size and numbers to the Successor States? Because that is what it would take to put things back into balance after Clantech was given to the Successor States. As it is, the Clans' advanced technology is justified by the fact their economies and armies are much smaller, they need the advanced tech to deal with greater IS numbers, and if you take that away you basically turn the Clans into minor states that would be incapable of posing a threat to the Successor States, effectively eliminating them as interstellar players.
« Last Edit: 19 August 2011, 10:20:44 by Nanaki »

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #235 on: 19 August 2011, 11:34:56 »
Time marches on. Once upon a time Rome, Spain, Britain, and Japan were all great imperial powers. Then time passed them by. By 3150 its been a century since the Clans burst onto the scene in the Inner Sphere. Few living humans even remember a time when the Clans DIDN'T occupy their now traditional territories.


I would compare the clans to the spartans.  In the Persian Wars and the later Pelopennesian War, the spartans were a military power.  When the romans started to expand their city state, they were in decline.  When the romans conquered Greece, the spartans were a curious looking culture that people travelled to gawk at.  I think that it was in the Bab5 pilot that Londo laments "Come see the great Centauri Republic! Open nine to five, Earth time.".  That pretty much sums up Sparta's end-- not with a bang, but a kaching of tourist coinage.  Once the inner sphere can counter their superiority in warships, the clans are going to decline.  While the IS is still reverse engineering their technology, the clans can make serious coin selling it, but short of clan tech being made of complex proteins harvested from living things not found in the inner sphere, if the clans can make it, so can the IS.

For the love of god... I never thought I would have to repeat myself but apparently my message is not getting through people's thick skulls:

[snip]

Are you people getting it now? How many times do I have to repeat myself for you people to get it?


You have touched upon one of the great problems of the fluff of the BTU-- it lacks verisimilitude.  The technology and arms race in the lensman series is far less realistic than the BTU, but the way things interact makes it seem more realistic than the BTU.  Too much of the BTU is variations of  "because a writer thought it would be cool", so the BTU seems to be a massive collection of Fridge Logic.
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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #236 on: 19 August 2011, 13:06:40 »
For the love of god... I never thought I would have to repeat myself but apparently my message is not getting through people's thick skulls:

Are you people getting it now? How many times do I have to repeat myself for you people to get it?


The problem is that it also imbalances the geopolitical game because the Clans do not have the massive economies and numbers of the Successor States. If Clan technology was given to the Successor States, you would have to make the Clans the raw numbers and economic power of the Successor States. Are you willing to see the Clans become equal in size and numbers to the Successor States? Because that is what it would take to put things back into balance after Clantech was given to the Successor States. As it is, the Clans' advanced technology is justified by the fact their economies and armies are much smaller, they need the advanced tech to deal with greater IS numbers, and if you take that away you basically turn the Clans into minor states that would be incapable of posing a threat to the Successor States, effectively eliminating them as interstellar players.

We are getting it...  honestly, why should we care at all about fluff in any way or what is happening in the next scenario book or plot line advancement or what year is coming is there is not some form of internal consistency to the setting?  What it seems to be said by so many other people far more eloquently is that the Clans don't make sense from a consistent view within the universe itself.

To continue to hide behind a strawman that the ingame universe is not 'realistic' and there for has no need for 'realism' is garbage.  Might as well just invite space aliens and uplifted war-dolphins into the setting but those would not be consistent from an in-universe perspective.

What seems to be slowly evolving here is a view that more than just a few seem to be wanting a reasonable progression of the setting from an internally consistent with the established fluff written.  There are volumes of it out there...  the prototype books are showing this is coming.  In fact, it seems that this merger might as well be spray painted on the Great Wall of China so we can see it from space.

This segment is not asking for realism from the sense of 'hard sci-fi' or real-world politics or economics or sciences or military logic...  take a look through the forums and it is pretty well obvious to all to see since we have terms like 'FASA-nomics' that it isn't based in reality/realism.   What they are asking for is INTERNAL CONSISTENCY.   That things that have occurred within the setting continue along trends that can be predicted and that thing things that came before it influence what is to come after...  without resorting to space wizards did it...  which is about the only thing keeping Clan tech from being mass produced... to preserve the dying ember of the superior state of the clans...

Despite losing their home worlds, despite decades of near constant combat grinding the pre-war elite down to mush and depending on younger clones and freeborn that still somehow magically show up better, despite the fact that they have the administrative capacity that rivals some barbaric tribes with their warrior's first attitude, despite a good majority of the Inner Sphere clans pretty much looking like they were in shambles post Jihad/WoR, and despite having a population base and territory size that even makes the Capellan Confederation look like a right super-power.

Despite all this, we are to believe from an internally consistent viewpoint of the setting that the Clans are to continue keeping the edge in both technology and piloting skill despite pretty much ever bit of fluff screaming out otherwise just to keep some players happy at their superiority...  that is even more unrealistic and unbelievable that something so simple as the Inner Sphere getting to stop using the lesser versions of Pulse Lasers, ER energy weapons, XL engines, the DHS, autocannons, missile launchers, and other common Star League derived technologies.

So if asking for an internally consistent setting that can use the fluff of it's own books to support itself is 'realism'...  and I am supposed to not look at that...  then I gladly welcome the alien invasion headed by the three head wolverines who look at the lost Minnesota Tribe as demigods and want to bring the holy light of the tribe back to the people from whom they originated.  That is what happens when you discard consistency, you open the door to that.
"Any sufficiently rigorously defined magic is indistinguishable from technology."  - Larry Niven... far too appropriate at times here.

...but sometimes making sure you turn their ace into red paste is more important than friends.

Do not offend the chair leg of truth.  It is wise and terrible.

The GM is only right for as long as the facts back him up.

Fallen_Raven

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #237 on: 19 August 2011, 13:35:20 »
So if asking for an internally consistent setting that can use the fluff of it's own books to support itself is 'realism'...  and I am supposed to not look at that...  then I gladly welcome the alien invasion headed by the three head wolverines who look at the lost Minnesota Tribe as demigods and want to bring the holy light of the tribe back to the people from whom they originated.  That is what happens when you discard consistency, you open the door to that.

Wasn't that in Masters and Minions? Or was that the plot to the sequel to Far Country? Honestly, with all the weirdness in some of the books I wouldn't find it all that suprising.
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Istal_Devalis

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #238 on: 19 August 2011, 14:24:48 »
No, right now in 3080ish that's true. In 70 years time, that's not going to be true.

BT has realistic trends, and rules that it follows. That it's not real world doesn't mean we can't have logical discussions about what would realistically happen in the universe given those rules and trends that have come before.
in RL, sure? In Battletech? No. Tech develops and distributes MUCH more slowly in Battletech then it does in RL. We see this time and again. Heck, we already know they dont do so, as the IS HASNT matched the Clans technology in 3150. We know this as an established 'fact' of said universe.

This is why I brought up the stagnation that effected the IS after the Succession Wars. Exactly how, and why this isnt realistic has been brought up before, but for 300 years, nothing advanced. By all rights, the IS SHOULD have left the Clans, and their limited population/industry in the dust. The Battletech universe just doesnt advance at all, unless it's crucial for the story, or they start running out of interesting mixes of tech for a TRO.

Advancing the Clans just doesnt do anything for the universe. By having two seperate tech bases, it doubles their options when building new toys, and gives one side something to strive form in terms of story rewards. They're better off, for meta reasons, in having two parallel, but not quite even, sets of tech for both, especially once you start bringing in mixed tech designs.

Sid

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Re: What new technology for 3150
« Reply #239 on: 19 August 2011, 14:26:19 »
What it seems to be said by so many other people far more eloquently is that the Clans don't make sense from a consistent view within the universe itself.


You know what?  You're right.  'so many other people' don't like the Clans, let's just wipe everything since the Clans came out.  Let's make Battletech make sense again.  Let's go back to just before the Clans were introduced- good ol' 1989, let's wipe out the past 24 years of Battletech fluff.  Afterall, we had a whole ~3 years of fantastic development consistency, and it's only the next quarter of a century of development that doesn't make sense at all.

Let's go back to those House books that weren't inconsistent with eachother.  So what if a planet with a couple billion civilians can be conquered by 4 guys in light 'mechs?  And the Cappellan Confederation didn't jive up with the rest of the Inner Sphere- where nearly every one of its systems had at *least* 3 habitable worlds on it?  That it's production and economic weight should have crushed the Federated Suns wholesale?

Let's not forget such gems as the Great Houses owning...what was it?  80% of all the Jumpships in the entire Inner Sphere, which should mean the entire Sphere should just collapse?

While we're at it, let's return to the time when mermaids existed through genetic modification in the Periphery, because that certainly doesn't jive with the setting like the Clans' eugenic program does.  I mean, Christ, engineering someone with a fish tail is one thing, but the ability to swap DNA into a fertalized egg is OBVIOUSLY far too gone.

And because 'so many other people' disagree with the Clans, clearly all the players that came in through the collectable card game, the video games of the past two decades, the television show, Wizkids' MWDA...they're clearly such a minority.

Yes, let's do that.  It's about time we fixed this 'Clan' problem once and for all.  They've only been planned from the beginning and only been in the game for the past 4/5s of Battletech's entire history.
 
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