Author Topic: Babylon 5 (Read 13694 times)

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire · « **on:** 11 June 2018, 20:20:17 »

FYI to any fans, the series is now streaming on Amazon Prime.

Man, the CGI has not aged gracefully and that dialog sure sounds a lot cornier than it did when I was a kid.

pheonixstorm · « **Reply #1 on:** 11 June 2018, 21:20:08 »

Is it just the series or all of it? All 110 episodes plus 5 films (one being the pilot) plus the spin-off??
If so best to check https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Babylon_5_episodes for the proper order to watch in :P

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire · « **Reply #2 on:** 11 June 2018, 21:46:43 »

I think it's just the series.

Firesprocket · « **Reply #3 on:** 11 June 2018, 21:57:07 »

I did a full watch of the series (but not the movies) ~~a few years back~~ in 2009 . Season 1 was a small chore, Season 5 was grinding. I still enjoyed I immensely seasons 2-4. I watched Endgame that year when the Caps came back in 7 and beat the Rangers. That and the episode after where the fate of Marcus and Ivonva fate is concluded is still holds up. Wish it had ended after 4 seasons.

Top Sergeant · « **Reply #4 on:** 11 June 2018, 22:20:58 »

I hold that Babylon 5 is the best four seasons of sci fi I've seen on Television. To me Season 5 was too slapdash because the story actually concluded at the end of Season 4 because JMS wasn't told he'd get Season 5 until virtually the last minute. Ivanova, Londo, G'kar were my favorites. And seeing Michael Ansarra as a Technomage is one of my favorite episodes. Peter Jurasic confessed that when Ansarra got in his face during a confrontation scene that he actually wet himself, Ansarra was that intimidating.

Deadborder · « **Reply #5 on:** 11 June 2018, 23:28:38 »

I'll say this much; the makeup and prosthetics still look pretty damned good all these years later.

BirdofPrey · « **Reply #6 on:** 11 June 2018, 23:42:37 »

It's a shame no one has ever redone the CGI. Apparently B5 was filmed in widescreen since JMS figured that would be a thing eventually and he figured when that happened they could just redo the CGI, but it never happened.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire · « **Reply #7 on:** 12 June 2018, 00:27:38 »

The movies are not on Amazon Prime, they're pay to stream only.

As far as costumes and props go, the show looks distinctly low-budget compared to DS9.

trboturtle · « **Reply #8 on:** 12 June 2018, 00:50:51 »

Quote from: Firesprocket on 11 June 2018, 21:57:07

I did a full watch of the series (but not the movies) ~~a few years back~~ in 2009 . Season 1 was a small chore, Season 5 was grinding. I still enjoyed I immensely seasons 2-4. I watched Endgame that year when the Caps came back in 7 and beat the Rangers. That and the episode after where the fate of Marcus and Ivonva fate is concluded is still holds up. Wish it had ended after 4 seasons.

IIRC, they were renewed for Season 5 later than they expected, so they had to do some fancy footwork to figure out what to do with Season 5.....

Craig

ColBosch · « **Reply #9 on:** 12 June 2018, 01:23:00 »

Quote from: trboturtle on 12 June 2018, 00:50:51

IIRC, they were renewed for Season 5 later than they expected, so they had to do some fancy footwork to figure out what to do with Season 5.....

Worse, they were told that Season Four was definitely the last, then got hit with Season Five at the last minute. Later than last minute, really, as at least one of the actors had taken another job. JMS has said that, at the very least, had he known they were going to get Season Five then he would've handled the Marcus/Ivanova resolution far differently.

Babylon 5 has long been one of my favorite shows. It had problems, sure, but it really worked hard to overcome them.

I am Belch II · « **Reply #10 on:** 12 June 2018, 02:13:13 »

I'm very glad it's on Amazon. There were some really good episodes! G'Kar is one of the best acted and charters in sci-fi alone. The story with the Shadows and Earth Civil War are great!

ColBosch · « **Reply #11 on:** 12 June 2018, 02:18:23 »

Quote from: I am Belch II on 12 June 2018, 02:13:13

I'm very glad it's on Amazon. There were some really good episodes! G'Kar is one of the best acted and charters in sci-fi alone. The story with the Shadows and Earth Civil War are great!

G'Kar is a far better character than his DS9 equivalent.

marauder648 · « **Reply #12 on:** 12 June 2018, 02:59:54 »

Quote from: ColBosch on 12 June 2018, 02:18:23

G'Kar is a far better character than his DS9 equivalent.

Who's G'Kar's DS9 equivalent in your opinion? Gonna guess Garak?

Frabby · « **Reply #13 on:** 12 June 2018, 03:29:03 »

The show did have a rough start, with me at least, but it eventually turned out to be well-written overall (though maybe not always well executed). My favorite character was definitely Londo, and G'Kar opposite him; they had fantastic intertwined character arcs. But there were indeed many well-developed characters. Bester, Garibaldi, Vir spring to mind. Also, while Game of Thrones is often lauded for unexpectedly offing characters to garner a "nobody is safe" environment, B5 arguably did it first with Talia Winters, Lt. Keffer, and Marcus Cole.
(It wasn't all sunshine though. There were weaker characters: I was particularly cheesed out by Delenn, Lennier, and Marcus Cole. And the fifth season was the uninspired cash-in sequel that nobody needed.)

ColBosch · « **Reply #14 on:** 12 June 2018, 03:38:51 »

Quote from: marauder648 on 12 June 2018, 02:59:54

Who's G'Kar's DS9 equivalent in your opinion? Gonna guess Garak?

Major Kira Nerys, of course. Both were supposed to be former "freedom fighters" against an oppressive, alien regime. Of the two, it was Katsulas's G'Kar that really felt like a terrorist-turned-politician to me. His relationship with Peter Jurasik's Londo was fantastic and uncomfortably realistic at times.

I am Belch II · « **Reply #15 on:** 12 June 2018, 04:07:20 »

There were lots of similar themes in Babylon 5 and DS9. I don't think there was a character like G'Kar in DS9. I think the Mimbari were kinda like the Vulcans in a way. I think the Narn were a little bit like the Bajor. The Dominion and the Shadows had a same very loosely.
Ds9 had the Defiant and B5 had the White Star so that fits.

Mendrugo · « **Reply #16 on:** 12 June 2018, 04:19:44 »

There's a reason for the similarities. JMS pitched B5 to Paramount with a series bible that included: A numbered space station (Babylon 5), ships coming and going via a "vortex" near the station (the jumpgate), a race recently emerging from occupation by another race (Narns from Centauri), mysterious unknowable aliens (Vorlons), and a shapeshifter (the Minbari with the changeling net).

Paramount said no, and then greenlit a new Star Trek series with: a numbered space station (Deep Space 9), ships coming and going via a vortex near the station (the wormhole), a race recently emerging from occupation by another race (the Bajorans from the Cardassians), mysterious unknowable aliens (the wormhole aliens), and a shapeshifter (Odo).

While JMS doesn't accuse Berman and Piller of having ripped off his concepts, he does suspect that someone in Paramount might have mined his treatment for ideas that they then pitched to Berman and Piller. Nonetheless, both shows went different directions and produced some high quality tv sci fi.

marauder648 · « **Reply #17 on:** 12 June 2018, 04:21:38 »

B5's characters were arguably stronger than DS9's even though DS9 had the power trio of Miles, Julian and Garak (with those two being the ambiguiously gay duo :p) but the character chemestry in B5, i'd say was stronger. As you said the Londo/G'kar relationship was amazing, Ivanova was a God and so on, and the romance between Delenn and Sherridan felt authentic.

And whilst I really enjoyed DS9, it only really got good when it actually got a running story IE the Dominion War. B5 always had its story going from the beginning. And yes the CGI has aged badly and the lines are sometimes a bit more hammy. But as a plus in its favour, it didn't have a Ben Sisko who PuT EMPHasis oN RAnDom PArTs Of hIS WoRDs! Or shout every last word in a sentence. I would guess its part of his stage acting career that could explain that.

And i'll say this for B5 the bit from 1.55 - 2.13 still makes the hairs on my neck stand up - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXkIuVLnsFE

And the costumes/prosthetics still stand up today, hell the Drazi look a damn sight better than Discovery's 'Klingons' and the actors had the ability to make facial expressions and emote!

Takiro · « **Reply #18 on:** 12 June 2018, 05:16:24 »

I just watched a B5 episode (Gropos) last nite for the first time in a long time. Brings back some fond 90s memories. While DS9 is my favorite Star Trek easily I'd say nobody has every done such a fine 3 season story arc as B5. Even the first harder to watch season pays off by the end of Season 4 making it enjoyable later on.

ColBosch · « **Reply #19 on:** 12 June 2018, 05:28:22 »

Yeah, Season 1 can be rough. They were trying for the X-Files formula, with roughly half the episodes being "meta plot" and the other half "monster of the week." The show got much better when they abandoned that and made every episode part of the greater story.

Mendrugo · « **Reply #20 on:** 12 June 2018, 05:40:57 »

The key difference came when JMS started writing every single episode.

Skyth · « **Reply #21 on:** 12 June 2018, 06:34:05 »

I actually have all of B5 of DVD so don't need to watch it streaming :)

The scene that gets me in Babylon 5 is the Delenn quote.

Quote

"Only one Human captain has survived an encounter with a Minbari fleet. He is behind me, you are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else."

I enjoyed the 'married' couple of G'Kar and Londo. Refa's death was an amazing scene.

I also really liked Marcus. Especially the episode where he's protecting Delenn while she's accepting the mantle of being the leader of the Rangers.

marauder648 · « **Reply #22 on:** 12 June 2018, 07:11:52 »

and the other bit where we hear this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp-fWQxbtq0

being sung by robed aliens as one of Sherridan's lessons.

Tymers Realm · « **Reply #23 on:** 12 June 2018, 07:20:51 »

Quote from: ColBosch on 12 June 2018, 05:28:22

Yeah, Season 1 can be rough. They were trying for the X-Files formula, with roughly half the episodes being "meta plot" and the other half "monster of the week." The show got much better when they abandoned that and made every episode part of the greater story.

True, but even the MotW eps fed to the meta-plot as well.

Mendrugo · « **Reply #24 on:** 12 June 2018, 07:34:48 »

For me, the best scene is G'kar's speech upon being dismissed from the Council.

Quote

No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.

glitterboy2098 · « **Reply #25 on:** 12 June 2018, 10:49:47 »

Quote from: Mendrugo on 12 June 2018, 07:34:48

For me, the best scene is G'kar's speech upon being dismissed from the Council.

which with a few tiny tweaks makes a wonderful line for the Free Rasalhague Republic in 3050..

Matti · « **Reply #26 on:** 12 June 2018, 10:53:05 »

Quote from: marauder648 on 12 June 2018, 04:21:38

And i'll say this for B5 the bit from 1.55 - 2.13 still makes the hairs on my neck stand up - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXkIuVLnsFE

What's with static on monitor screens?

HobbesHurlbut · « **Reply #27 on:** 12 June 2018, 11:34:54 »

Quote from: Matti on 12 June 2018, 10:53:05

What's with static on monitor screens?

lines cut to the monitor, or what not.

Matti · « **Reply #28 on:** 12 June 2018, 12:38:54 »

Quote from: HobbesHurlbut on 12 June 2018, 11:34:54

lines cut to the monitor, or what not.

I don't recall my monitors doing that. Not even the CRT ones.

ColBosch · « **Reply #29 on:** 12 June 2018, 13:03:39 »

Quote from: Matti on 12 June 2018, 12:38:54

I don't recall my monitors doing that. Not even the CRT ones.

It's a 1990s-appropriate way to tell the audience "something isn't working right." Most of the audience still wasn't used to dedicated computer monitors, but they did know televisions, and when a television lost signal it displayed static. And who can say how the computers work on future spaceships? Maybe they use some sort of wireless connection that will display static if damaged.