Babylon 5

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

FYI to any fans, the series is now streaming on Amazon Prime.

Man, the CGI has not aged gracefully and that dialog sure sounds a lot cornier than it did when I was a kid.

[pheonixstorm]

Is it just the series or all of it? All 110 episodes plus 5 films (one being the pilot) plus the spin-off??
If so best to check https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Babylon_5_episodes for the proper order to watch in :P

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I think it's just the series.

[Firesprocket]

I did a full watch of the series (but not the movies) a few years back in 2009 .  Season 1 was a small chore, Season 5 was grinding.  I still enjoyed I immensely seasons 2-4.  I watched Endgame that year when the Caps came back in 7 and beat the Rangers.  That and the episode after where the fate of Marcus and Ivonva fate is concluded is still holds up.  Wish it had ended after 4 seasons.

[Top Sergeant]

I hold that Babylon 5 is the best four seasons of sci fi I've seen on Television. To me Season 5 was too slapdash because the story actually concluded at the end of Season 4 because JMS wasn't told he'd get Season 5 until virtually the last minute. Ivanova, Londo, G'kar were my favorites. And seeing Michael Ansarra as a Technomage is one of my favorite episodes. Peter Jurasic confessed that when Ansarra got in his face during a confrontation scene that he actually wet himself, Ansarra was that intimidating.

[Deadborder]

I'll say this much; the makeup and prosthetics still look pretty damned good all these years later.

[BirdofPrey]

It's a shame no one has ever redone the CGI.  Apparently B5 was filmed in widescreen since JMS figured that would be a thing eventually and he figured when that happened they could just redo the CGI, but it never happened.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

The movies are not on Amazon Prime, they're pay to stream only.

As far as costumes and props go, the show looks distinctly low-budget compared to DS9.

[trboturtle]

I did a full watch of the series (but not the movies) a few years back in 2009 .  Season 1 was a small chore, Season 5 was grinding.  I still enjoyed I immensely seasons 2-4.  I watched Endgame that year when the Caps came back in 7 and beat the Rangers.  That and the episode after where the fate of Marcus and Ivonva fate is concluded is still holds up.  Wish it had ended after 4 seasons.

IIRC, they were renewed for Season 5 later than they expected, so they had to do some fancy footwork to figure out what to do with Season 5.....

Craig

[ColBosch]

IIRC, they were renewed for Season 5 later than they expected, so they had to do some fancy footwork to figure out what to do with Season 5.....

Worse, they were told that Season Four was definitely the last, then got hit with Season Five at the last minute. Later than last minute, really, as at least one of the actors had taken another job. JMS has said that, at the very least, had he known they were going to get Season Five then he would've handled the Marcus/Ivanova resolution far differently.

Babylon 5 has long been one of my favorite shows. It had problems, sure, but it really worked hard to overcome them.

[I am Belch II]

I'm very glad it's on Amazon. There were some really good episodes! G'Kar is one of the best acted and charters in sci-fi alone. The story with the Shadows and Earth Civil War are great!

[ColBosch]

I'm very glad it's on Amazon. There were some really good episodes! G'Kar is one of the best acted and charters in sci-fi alone. The story with the Shadows and Earth Civil War are great!

G'Kar is a far better character than his DS9 equivalent.

[marauder648]

G'Kar is a far better character than his DS9 equivalent.

Who's G'Kar's DS9 equivalent in your opinion? Gonna guess Garak?

[Frabby]

The show did have a rough start, with me at least, but it eventually turned out to be well-written overall (though maybe not always well executed). My favorite character was definitely Londo, and G'Kar opposite him; they had fantastic intertwined character arcs. But there were indeed many well-developed characters. Bester, Garibaldi, Vir spring to mind. Also, while Game of Thrones is often lauded for unexpectedly offing characters to garner a "nobody is safe" environment, B5 arguably did it first with Talia Winters, Lt. Keffer, and Marcus Cole.
(It wasn't all sunshine though. There were weaker characters: I was particularly cheesed out by Delenn, Lennier, and Marcus Cole. And the fifth season was the uninspired cash-in sequel that nobody needed.)

[ColBosch]

Who's G'Kar's DS9 equivalent in your opinion? Gonna guess Garak?

Major Kira Nerys, of course. Both were supposed to be former "freedom fighters" against an oppressive, alien regime. Of the two, it was Katsulas's G'Kar that really felt like a terrorist-turned-politician to me. His relationship with Peter Jurasik's Londo was fantastic and uncomfortably realistic at times.

[I am Belch II]

There were lots of similar themes in Babylon 5 and DS9. I don't think there was a character like G'Kar in DS9. I think the Mimbari were kinda like the Vulcans in a way. I think the Narn were a little bit like the Bajor. The Dominion and the Shadows had a same very loosely.
Ds9 had the Defiant and B5 had the White Star so that fits.

[Mendrugo]

There's a reason for the similarities.  JMS pitched B5 to Paramount with a series bible that included:  A numbered space station (Babylon 5), ships coming and going via a "vortex" near the station (the jumpgate), a race recently emerging from occupation by another race (Narns from Centauri), mysterious unknowable aliens (Vorlons), and a shapeshifter (the Minbari with the changeling net). 

Paramount said no, and then greenlit a new Star Trek series with: a numbered space station (Deep Space 9), ships coming and going via a vortex near the station (the wormhole), a race recently emerging from occupation by another race (the Bajorans from the Cardassians), mysterious unknowable aliens (the wormhole aliens), and a shapeshifter (Odo).

While JMS doesn't accuse Berman and Piller of having ripped off his concepts, he does suspect that someone in Paramount might have mined his treatment for ideas that they then pitched to Berman and Piller.  Nonetheless, both shows went different directions and produced some high quality tv sci fi.

[marauder648]

B5's characters were arguably stronger than DS9's even though DS9 had the power trio of Miles, Julian and Garak (with those two being the ambiguiously gay duo :p) but the character chemestry in B5, i'd say was stronger.  As you said the Londo/G'kar relationship was amazing, Ivanova was a God and so on, and the romance between Delenn and Sherridan felt authentic.

And whilst I really enjoyed DS9, it only really got good when it actually got a running story IE the Dominion War.  B5 always had its story going from the beginning.  And yes the CGI has aged badly and the lines are sometimes a bit more hammy.  But as a plus in its favour, it didn't have a Ben Sisko who PuT EMPHasis oN RAnDom PArTs Of hIS WoRDs!  Or shout every last word in a sentence.  I would guess its part of his stage acting career that could explain that.

And i'll say this for B5 the bit from 1.55 - 2.13 still makes the hairs on my neck stand up - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXkIuVLnsFE 

And the costumes/prosthetics still stand up today, hell the Drazi look a damn sight better than Discovery's 'Klingons' and the actors had the ability to make facial expressions and emote!

[Takiro]

I just watched a B5 episode (Gropos) last nite for the first time in a long time. Brings back some fond 90s memories. While DS9 is my favorite Star Trek easily I'd say nobody has every done such a fine 3 season story arc as B5. Even the first harder to watch season pays off by the end of Season 4 making it enjoyable later on.

[ColBosch]

Yeah, Season 1 can be rough. They were trying for the X-Files formula, with roughly half the episodes being "meta plot" and the other half "monster of the week." The show got much better when they abandoned that and made every episode part of the greater story.

[Mendrugo]

The key difference came when JMS started writing every single episode.

[Skyth]

I actually have all of B5 of DVD so don't need to watch it streaming :)

The scene that gets me in Babylon 5 is the Delenn quote.

"Only one Human captain has survived an encounter with a Minbari fleet. He is behind me, you are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else."

I enjoyed the 'married' couple of G'Kar and Londo.  Refa's death was an amazing scene.

I also really liked Marcus.  Especially the episode where he's protecting Delenn while she's accepting the mantle of being the leader of the Rangers.

[marauder648]

and the other bit where we hear this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp-fWQxbtq0

being sung by robed aliens as one of Sherridan's lessons.

[Tymers Realm]

Yeah, Season 1 can be rough. They were trying for the X-Files formula, with roughly half the episodes being "meta plot" and the other half "monster of the week." The show got much better when they abandoned that and made every episode part of the greater story.

True, but even the MotW eps fed to the meta-plot as well.

[Mendrugo]

For me, the best scene is G'kar's speech upon being dismissed from the Council.

No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.

[glitterboy2098]

For me, the best scene is G'kar's speech upon being dismissed from the Council.

which with a few tiny tweaks makes a wonderful line for the Free Rasalhague Republic in 3050..

[Matti]

And i'll say this for B5 the bit from 1.55 - 2.13 still makes the hairs on my neck stand up - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXkIuVLnsFE 

What's with static on monitor screens?

[HobbesHurlbut]

What's with static on monitor screens?

lines cut to the monitor, or what not.

[Matti]

lines cut to the monitor, or what not.

I don't recall my monitors doing that. Not even the CRT ones.

[ColBosch]

I don't recall my monitors doing that. Not even the CRT ones.

It's a 1990s-appropriate way to tell the audience "something isn't working right." Most of the audience still wasn't used to dedicated computer monitors, but they did know televisions, and when a television lost signal it displayed static. And who can say how the computers work on future spaceships? Maybe they use some sort of wireless connection that will display static if damaged.

[Matti]

And who can say how the computers work on future spaceships? Maybe they use some sort of wireless connection that will display static if damaged.

Like how modern mobile phone can have telephone's ringing for a ringtone... good idea

[I am Belch II]

Andreas Katsulas as G'Kar was such a legend and a great actor for that role. He was even good as Tomalak from TNG. There were so many different actors that were in both shows Star Trek and Babylon 5. Some of the big names like  Majel Barrett, even Vaughn Armstrong which I just noticed.

Still some of the Best Space Battles in all of Sci-Fi were in Babylon 5. Episodes of Endgame, Severed Dreams, Into the Fire, and Shadow Dancing to name a few.

[BirdofPrey]

I also really liked Marcus.  Especially the episode where he's protecting Delenn while she's accepting the mantle of being the leader of the Rangers.

Such a good B-plot in such a terrible episode.
I'd LIKE to tell people not to watch Gray 17 is Missing, but I can't because something important happens (granted you can infer from later episodes, but it's still a good character piece for Marcus).

[Meow Liao]

The B5/Voyager commonality is best guest appearance:  Brad Dourif.  His storyline is the only part of Voyager I liked. 

Meow Liao

[Skyth]

Such a good B-plot in such a terrible episode.
I'd LIKE to tell people not to watch Gray 17 is Missing, but I can't because something important happens (granted you can infer from later episodes, but it's still a good character piece for Marcus).

I consider the Marcus part to be the A plot regardless of the name.  And the ending part with the Mimbari he was fighting and Marcus was great.  On my phone so I can't look up the quote, but it has me laughing out loud when I hear it.

[Skyth]

Here is the scene.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRxqorKqqkc&index=1&list=PLvtSDa3l5hovAw5G5tfBCHQcwC4CJ4BLS

[CrossfirePilot]

I think a long time ago I stopped watching the show after the shadow war series.  Correct it doesn't age well.  Though the one part I still remember and like is Vir waving up to the head on the pike, after prophesying it years earlier.

[Matti]

I consider the Marcus part to be the A plot regardless of the name.  And the ending part with the Mimbari he was fighting and Marcus was great.  On my phone so I can't look up the quote, but it has me laughing out loud when I hear it.

I laughed when Garibaldi said:

Are you keeping up?

In context it was one of the funniest jokes in the series.

[marauder648]

Mr Garibaldi!!!  What ever it is...it can't be that bad..

[I am Belch II]

Jerry Doyle was a treasure to that show. May he and all the other actors from the show  RIP.

[Deadborder]

I admit I find it worrying just how many of the Babylon 5 actors have passed away

[VhenRa]

I admit I find it worrying just how many of the Babylon 5 actors have passed away

Show was cursed.

[Sharpnel]

I admit I find it worrying just how many of the Babylon 5 actors have passed away

We all gotta go sometime. Some go too soon, others stay around too long. when all is said and done, Atropos will still make her cut.

[I am Belch II]

A couple of them close to the same age.
It is so very sad that so many of them are gone beyond the rim.

[beachhead1985]

Having watched the entire thing, I find I like it on balance, but there are parts I'd never feel the need to see again and only keep for completeness sake.

Crusade and Legend of The Rangers being what I am talking about. Season 5 was not as fun as the rest, but overall the CGI doesn't bother me.

I find what I like best is that B5 is a more realistic take in human characters in SF. When I watched it, I knew these were people, written as people; flawed and human throughout, with some alien-aliens to boot. Nothing like say; Star Trek's idealized monoliths of utopian virtue (except when they aren't and no one cares about it).

It's definitely an alternative political viewpoint, which I found refreshing and the characters actually oppose eachother's views as well.

I'd say my favorite character is Londo. I confess, I am considering picking up the novels in order to read his final fate, even knowing the quality of fiction those are likely to be.

[Mendrugo]

What I noted from the very first episode is that, one show in, we already knew (and cared) far more about the internal and inter-state political systems in the universe than we did re: the Federation after 10 seasons of Star Trek TOS and TNG. 

First season had some growing pains, and the makeup and special effects weren't always perfect (note Shol Mayan's Minbari foam-rubber forehead prosthetic bulging forward when she lays her head on the ground after being branded by Earth First), plus there were some clunkers like TKO and the techno-organic war machine one (Ikaraaaaaaa!!), but that was more than offset by game changers, where a conventional episode structure takes a radical left turn with the arrival of the Shadows or the assassination of the president.  As JMS said, failure has far more dramatic potential than successful maintenance of the status quo.

Seasons 2-4 were excellent (Gray 17 notwithstanding).  Season five ran into the problem that, due to expected cancellation, JMS had crammed both the resolution of the Shadow War and the Earth Civil War into Season 4.  The original plan had been for Season 4 to conclude with the end to the Shadow War, and Season 5 to be a more drawn out narrative for the fight against President Clark.  With the last-minute renewal, JMS had already finished his major story arcs, and had to fill season 5 with a lot of "B" material filler. 

My most hated season five arc was Byron and the telepath war.  Whereas the telepath underground members shown in Seasons 1 and 2 were grungy looking character actors who looked like they were scared and on the run, Byron's crew looked like they stepped out of a shampoo model convention.  I guess they stumbled on a lifetime supply of conditioner and cream rinse in Down Below.

Legend of the Rangers - seemed like going back to the well (forget the Shadows, there's an even more ancient, more evil race) like Starkiller Base vis-a-vis the Death Star.  Plus, that fire control system.  Yeesh.

The Lost Tales - why bring a priest all the way out to B5?  Weren't Brother Theo and his monks planning to stay there for decades to do their research?

Crusade was all build-up with no resolution, due to the fact it was cancelled before it even went to air, due to creative team changes at TNT.  (Very Firefly-esque)  Hard to judge what it could have become - like if B5 was cancelled halfway through season 1, nobody would rate it highly.

[Skyth]

Crusade would have been interesting.  From what I understand they were going to show the Technomages as the Shadow's equivalent of what the Vorlons did to make Telepaths.

[I am Belch II]

The pilot episode for Crusade was really awesome. Some episodes were good, but most were not.  The ship was really cool and Gary Cole was really awesome in the role.

[Matti]

Star Trek's idealized monoliths of utopian virtue (except when they aren't and no one cares about it).

Indeed. When Star Trek is talked about, it's all about unrealistic utopia and nobody cares about Tasha's childhood.

[roosterboy]

Season five ran into the problem that, due to expected cancellation, JMS had crammed both the resolution of the Shadow War and the Earth Civil War into Season 4.  The original plan had been for Season 4 to conclude with the end to the Shadow War, and Season 5 to be a more drawn out narrative for the fight against President Clark.

It wouldn’t have been that different, as JMS has said he would have wrapped the Clark arc in the first six or so episodes of S5.

[idea weenie]

Couple of other good speeches from Babylon 5 "In the Beginning", where Londo talks abut humans during the Earth-Minbari War & The President's speech before the battle of the Line:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzJaQtZty5M

Good luck keeping a straight face

[marauder648]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr8tOa_En7A

[ColBosch]

Still my favorite scene, period, of anything on television: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhIAWyGQW8Q

[ColBosch]

Second-favorite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7uqCZCgRKU

[I am Belch II]

This is one of my favorite "jokes" thru the series.

I call it Breen still and got the wife calling it too. I just hate explaining that joke to people that dont understand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVLkxSSvegc

[Wrangler]

While it was on, Babylon 5 was one my favorite science fiction shows.

JMS's story arches were so well done despite the rushed / mishmashed of the Fourth Season due to issues with network and worries the series would be prematurely be cut off short.  Frankly, i wish some actors had come back for season five. However, that's way it is.

The sidestories JMS had made were interesting but not as good i think as original series as whole.

The Excalibur series could been great, though i was upset with TNT micromanaging the series thinking they knew what they were doing.  Great Laundry disaster was pretty hilarious as reason for the uniform change.  I think only thing REALLy didn't like was the Excalibur would be two-of-a-kind with the sister ship Independence destroyed and that ship still being called a "Destroyer".   ;D That's the Navy guy in me not likeing oversize Destroyers that should be cruisers etc.

[Weirdo]

In-universe, the idea is that Earthforce calls Omegas and Victories 'destroyers' for procurement reasons. EarthGov is more likely to fund destroyers than cruisers or battleships, regardless of actual cost.

[glitterboy2098]

the fact that a Earth ship the size of most race's Heavy Cruiser's only has the durability and firepower of other race's destroyers probably plays a part too. tech disparity is a [censored]. makes for a fun narrative element though.

presumably the Victory's are just the victim of governmental inertia, for all that they are a join Earth Alliance/Interstellar Alliance project. the IA having absorbed so many different race's, each with its own classification system, it might not have sorted out its own unified nomenclature at the time.

[Matti]

That's the Navy guy in me not likeing oversize Destroyers that should be cruisers etc.

Now I'm thinking about Super Star Destroyer :D

[glitterboy2098]

i suspect Star Wars's weird hull classifications have thrown off a lot of scifi writers. i know of at least one Trek writer who had Federation 'destroyer's' that were about many times larger than the Heavy Cruiser TOS Constitution class.. though later book's in that series avoided the issue. i suspect she got a lot of angry fan letters after that first book. i grin and bear it, because the series was pretty good. (Diane Duane's Rihannsu series. the 'destroyer' Inaieu in My Enemy, My Ally was described as being nearly a mile long, and the descriptions of its firepower and such were scaled according to that size.. a Destroyer that should be a super Battleship.  :P)

[I am Belch II]

I think the Omega Destroyer is more of a jack of all trades ship, like a modern destroyer now. The AB's and other nations destroyers can do just about everything now when it comes to a battle. It's like now how the German Navy has 6000+ ton FFG's. Its all for the public and the thinking of that ship and what sounds better and not as scary or as  the opposite. A Star Destroyer is more of a battleship, but when there are other much larger ships out there it don't seem that strong.
In Babylon 5 it's a Destroyer, vs a Cruiser vs a Battle Cruiser.
The Omega was a lot more powerful of a ship for a Destroyer then the Hyperion that was classified as a Heavy Cruiser in the same universe.

[Skyth]

The best scene from season 1...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GOHqe0vokU

[R.Tempest]

Absolutely. ;D

[Lorcan Nagle]

As far as costumes and props go, the show looks distinctly low-budget compared to DS9.

The difference in budget between DS9 and B5 was insane.  The average episode of 90s Trek cost about a million to make, while Babylon 5 was half that.  And while the number has never been published, Herman Zimmerman claimed that Emissary cost more to make than Star Trek VI, with much of that cost going into standing sets, props and costumes the production would use for years to come.

[ColBosch]

The best scene from season 1...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GOHqe0vokU

I've got to be honest, watching that scene now brought tears to my eyes.

[BirdofPrey]

The best scene from season 1...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GOHqe0vokU

Which is the better breakfast scene, though?  That or bacon and eggs?
https://youtu.be/yVEJDwaTMfk

[marauder648]

Until the Diet plan!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_K2MtvpK20

[glitterboy2098]

Until the Diet plan!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_K2MtvpK20

"No no no no. Food plan."

[Skyth]

Which is the better breakfast scene, though?  That or bacon and eggs?
https://youtu.be/yVEJDwaTMfk

I prefer the Sinclair one.  Even though I usually prefer Captain Scarecrow ;)

[Banzai]

(snip)

My most hated season five arc was Byron and the telepath war.  Whereas the telepath underground members shown in Seasons 1 and 2 were grungy looking character actors who looked like they were scared and on the run, Byron's crew looked like they stepped out of a shampoo model convention.  I guess they stumbled on a lifetime supply of conditioner and cream rinse in Down Below.

(snip)

In the show, I wish they would have used some of the rogue telepaths they showed during the war against the Shadows rather than the fashion model versions as well.  That whole arc was a waste. 

I would have loved to see the real Telepaths War, the one where Lyta and Lennier die attacking the Psi Corps Headquarters; where Garibaldi hunts down Bester, hiding out in Paris, and drags him in for war crimes trial.  The one that is only referred to in passing.  That one.

[roosterboy]

The final act of Garibaldi’s pirsuit of Bester comes uears after the Telepath War and is shown in the third novel of the PsiCorps Trilogy. It’s a fairly good book.

[mikecj]

His final insight was awesome/

[I am Belch II]

There were so many good jokes and inside humor. It was some of the best parts of the show.

[beachhead1985]

How good/bad are the novels?

[roosterboy]

Avoid all of them except:

The Shadow Within: Details Anna Sheridan's journey to Z'Ha'Dum and also stars Morden as another member of the expedition. JMS has said this one is 90% canon.

To Dream in the City of Sorrows: 100% canon, per JMS. Shows what happened with Sinclair between leaving Babylon 5 and "War Without End".

The Centauri Trilogy: Bridges the events of S5 and the finale and shows the final fates of several characters in more detail than we saw in the show.

The Psi-Corps Trilogy: The first two aren't that great but they do show the early history of the Corps and Bester. The last novel is post-Telepath War and shows Bester's final fate and gives hints about what happened to several other characters.

The Technomage Trilogy: This one... eh, I didn't like it so much because I find the Technomages tedious, but it ties into Crusade and The Shadow Within and other events from the series and if you actually like the Technomages you'll probably like these too. IIRC, Vir is a major character in this trilogy as well.

All the rest are crap.

[marauder648]

One very good epsiode was Come the Inquisitor when 'Jack' came a calling to make sure Delenn and Johnny Nuke'em were up for the task at hand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buaVRE4pExM

And here have some Narn ships including the Bin'Tak class dreadnought from the tabletop space ship combat game Babylon 5 Wars.

[Deadborder]

The Narn ships are very Terran Trade Authority-looking

[Ruger]

One very good epsiode was Come the Inquisitor when 'Jack' came a calling to make sure Delenn and Johnny Nuke'em were up for the task at hand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buaVRE4pExM

I know many derided that episode, but it's always been one of my favorites, as it shows that the Vorlons are not always the "angels" they present themselves as to others...not to mention the final scene...and most especially, that final line...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiiLehA-U5g

And here have some Narn ships including the Bin'Tak class dreadnought from the tabletop space ship combat game Babylon 5 Wars.

The Narn ships were, I believe, my favorites amongst all the ships introduced in Babylon 5...

Ruger

[marauder648]

It was one of the things I liked about B5, all the ships looked very distinct, and you could tell at a glance what nation made what.

hell many years ago (and looking back at them god they need reworking!) I did some fan made fluff books for Babylon 5 Wars, the table top space ship game (lotta fun but very slow). Could link if folks wanted :)

[Wrangler]

Is the narn dreadnought considered to be canon?

[marauder648]

Yep! The stuff in the B5 Wars books was canon.  As was its Centauri equivalent



The Octurion class battleship and so much more :)

[Lorcan Nagle]

A couple of the Centauri ships from B5 Wars even made it into the show - they're in The Lost Tales, in the flash forward space battle

[marauder648]

Aye like this thing, the Balvarin class carrier you see it for like 2 seconds in the background in The Lost Tales space battle

[I am Belch II]

It's to bad that the games both Babylon 5 games did t last long.  There are still a lot of resources for both games out on the web. Some even still produce the miniatures.

[Weirdo]

Both the Balvarin and Kutai were seen in Lost Tales.

You want fun? The Centauri Haven patrol boats look almost exactly like the infantry minisubs from TRO 3085...and the Fleet Action scale minis are the prefect size. :)

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

So I'm watching through the first season because I never actually got the show when it was on the air and consequently only saw a few episodes and want to see the whole thing.

Just got to the episode about the aliens with the kid who's got a lung clot and their religion won't permit surgery.

Skipping all the Rule 4 stuff, because who wants to go into that can of worms, it makes me wonder about how, exactly, the species has even survived.  I mean, really, a single puncture wound and you've apparently got to commit ritual suicide.  Does not seem like their species is likely to win many knife fights.

[kindalas]

So I'm watching through the first season because I never actually got the show when it was on the air and consequently only saw a few episodes and want to see the whole thing.

Just got to the episode about the aliens with the kid who's got a lung clot and their religion won't permit surgery.

Skipping all the Rule 4 stuff, because who wants to go into that can of worms, it makes me wonder about how, exactly, the species has even survived.  I mean, really, a single puncture wound and you've apparently got to commit ritual suicide.  Does not seem like their species is likely to win many knife fights.

I read somewhere that JMS said that puncturing the chest cavity was what the prohibition was all about. A scrape or compound fracture didn't count.

[glitterboy2098]

So I'm watching through the first season because I never actually got the show when it was on the air and consequently only saw a few episodes and want to see the whole thing.

Just got to the episode about the aliens with the kid who's got a lung clot and their religion won't permit surgery.

Skipping all the Rule 4 stuff, because who wants to go into that can of worms, it makes me wonder about how, exactly, the species has even survived.  I mean, really, a single puncture wound and you've apparently got to commit ritual suicide.  Does not seem like their species is likely to win many knife fights.

not the most well thought out plot i'll admit. i usually skip that one myself.. the Rule4 stuff in it rubs me the wrong way in its heavyhandedness and how poorly thought out the plot was. especially since the surgery involved shouldn't have been an issue anyway.. even in '94 when it was filmed, there would have been a way to go in through the airway and remove the build up without cutting the kid open. by 2281 i'd imagine their medical tools would be even less invasive.

[ColBosch]

It wasn't species-wide. And let's move on from that, okay?

[marauder648]

One very good B5 Season 1 Episode

Deathwalker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=braDD-4ZYQk

The Dilgar were basically space Nazis with all that entailed but the B5 Wars stuff for them was very well written.  You can also find a superb fanfiction about the Dilgar War here

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/2594689/1/The-Dilgar-War

I just kinda wish the Dilgar looked a bit more like the Kilrathi



Rather than humans with slight feline atributes.

[Smegish]

Limits of 90s TV budgets unfortunately, specially for a show that wasn't Star Trek

[marauder648]

Limits of 90s TV budgets unfortunately, specially for a show that wasn't Star Trek

Very true and IIRC the CGI for the show consumed a lot of the budget.

[I am Belch II]

New ships in the Lost Tales....now it makes me want to see it more.

[marauder648]

Lost Tales is okay, the space battle is VERY brief, but you see some Vorchans, a Balvarin and Kutai as well as an Omega class destroyer and a Warlock class destroyer in battle

[ColBosch]

The thing to understand about Lost Tales is that it is what it says on the tin: it's a couple of unused plot ideas from the show. JMS was disappointed with the low budget he was given, so he refused to make more "sub-par" videos.

[I am Belch II]

I liked Crusade but we know how that ended. Legend of the Rangers was ok but still pretty bad.
Im not going to go out of my way to find Lost Tales.

I liked all the TV movies for Babylon 5 except River of Souls.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Yeah.

Vorlons: doing what everyone else should have done to begin with.

[Banzai]

So I'm watching through the first season because I never actually got the show when it was on the air and consequently only saw a few episodes and want to see the whole thing.

Just got to the episode about the aliens with the kid who's got a lung clot and their religion won't permit surgery.

Skipping all the Rule 4 stuff, because who wants to go into that can of worms, it makes me wonder about how, exactly, the species has even survived.  I mean, really, a single puncture wound and you've apparently got to commit ritual suicide.  Does not seem like their species is likely to win many knife fights.

Yeah, but it shows a running rule on B5 -- being a cute kid has no "plot armor" on Babylon 5. 

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Yeah, but it shows a running rule on B5 -- being a cute kid has no "plot armor" on Babylon 5.

I'm fine with the lack of plot armor.  I just found the episode to be fairly incoherent and badly written.

[beachhead1985]

Avoid all of them except:

The Shadow Within: Details Anna Sheridan's journey to Z'Ha'Dum and also stars Morden as another member of the expedition. JMS has said this one is 90% canon.

To Dream in the City of Sorrows: 100% canon, per JMS. Shows what happened with Sinclair between leaving Babylon 5 and "War Without End".

The Centauri Trilogy: Bridges the events of S5 and the finale and shows the final fates of several characters in more detail than we saw in the show.

The Psi-Corps Trilogy: The first two aren't that great but they do show the early history of the Corps and Bester. The last novel is post-Telepath War and shows Bester's final fate and gives hints about what happened to several other characters.

The Technomage Trilogy: This one... eh, I didn't like it so much because I find the Technomages tedious, but it ties into Crusade and The Shadow Within and other events from the series and if you actually like the Technomages you'll probably like these too. IIRC, Vir is a major character in this trilogy as well.

All the rest are crap.

Ugh...so the one's which show how Londo finished are in the junk pile, eh?

[roosterboy]

Ugh...so the one's which show how Londo finished are in the junk pile, eh?

No, that's the Centauri Trilogy.

[Banzai]

I may dig those up.  Londo's arc --rise, fall, and redemption --is one of the best things ever on TV and, knowingly or not, the progenitor of the better known versions we see today.  The idea of a five-year story arc was revolutionary, and what JMS and Peter did was fantastic. 

[beachhead1985]

No, that's the Centauri Trilogy.

then THAT i will need to track down!