Author Topic: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?  (Read 171140 times)

Phobos101

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #1440 on: 07 August 2019, 06:17:20 »
The last paint factory fell in the second succession war. Someone cracked open a Star League cache full of fire engine red.

RifleMech

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #1441 on: 07 August 2019, 07:50:10 »
from the perspective of 3060, you can infer that you can use them in 3085? No, you cannot.

so just like any other organization (ie TRO by years confers no actual benefit besides appeasing old players)

You're wanting TPTB to print in a TRO when a unit is going to go extinct?  Off hand the only TROs that do that are TRO:2750 and TRO:3026R and much of that has been retconned with downgrades and Comstar exclusives. Sure there's more in TRO:3075 but I don't count those as those units are being reintroduced in that TRO. From that point forward they're available.

As I've said before with TROs by years you knew that as of that date the unit was available. Unless something is printed you may presume those units remain available later. Going by Era though is vague. The Succession Wars covered 4 wars over several hundred years. You have to hunt for which the unit is available. For example, the fluff for the Hussar says that scant few remained after Kerensky's exodus and it became a lost design until 3051. Does the Hussar survive beyond the opening salvo of the First Succession War? Does it survive long enough to be in the Second Succession War? When exactly is the Hussar available?

TRO:Succession Wars certainly doesn't do this
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You hold in your hands the requested compilation of BattleMechs in operation across the Inner Sphere, beginning in the Age of War, continuing through the time of the First Star League and the Succession Wars, and up to the eve of Operation REVIVAL.
It can't with units going extinct.



Sartris

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #1442 on: 07 August 2019, 08:05:32 »
Year TROs present both ridiculous production costs for cgl and entry cost for new players. Your ideal doesn’t work in a competitive market where money matters. A lot. If you’re concerned about extinction dates you’re deep enough in to know about the MUL.


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Adrian Gideon

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #1443 on: 07 August 2019, 08:40:58 »
If you’re concerned about extinction dates you’re deep enough in to know about the MUL.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #1444 on: 07 August 2019, 08:56:14 »
Considering how many people on this forum feild Primitives on a regular basis, don't think many care about extinction dates.
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NeonKnight

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #1445 on: 07 August 2019, 09:01:08 »
Considering how many people on this forum feild Primitives on a regular basis, don't think many care about extinction dates.

Probably because I look at EXTINCT as meaning

NO LONGER IN PRODUCTION

not

THEY ALL SUDDENLY DISAPPEARED

Real World Example

The MODEL T Ford is no longer in production. Doesn;t mean I can't find them out in the world, or machine replacement part for them
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Sartris

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #1446 on: 07 August 2019, 09:08:49 »
If it actually says Extinct, then there are no known (in universe) examples of that unit in a military force and it is believed by everyone to no longer be in service anywhere.
The MUL is about combat deployment, and informing players what is in use. It could be in a museum, or hidden in a star league cache, or maybe somebody has one and the rest of the Inner Sphere doesn't know about.  None of those count.

The MUL isn't interested in being a straight-jacket.  We're a tool to assist, not to beat people with.  If a player wants an extinct mech, it's their (local) game.  If a writer wants one in a story, it's an exception.  We move on.  We informed and people did what they wanted and good for them.

plenty of "do your own thing" in there, but this is the baseline definition when you see "Extinct"

a more apt analogy would be

I found a type of German horse carriage in an abandoned castle in Saxony that once existed in moderate numbers but until this moment no examples were known about.
« Last Edit: 07 August 2019, 09:16:29 by Sartris »

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nckestrel

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #1447 on: 07 August 2019, 09:15:08 »
Probably because I look at EXTINCT as meaning

NO LONGER IN PRODUCTION

not

THEY ALL SUDDENLY DISAPPEARED

Real World Example

The MODEL T Ford is no longer in production. Doesn't mean I can't find them out in the world, or machine replacement part for them

How many people taking that much time to keep a Model T in working order are willing to take them into combat?
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NeonKnight

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #1448 on: 07 August 2019, 09:19:35 »
How many people taking that much time to keep a Model T in working order are willing to take them into combat?

I know we have this discussion all the time ;)

I just really, really, really wish the MUL/BT in general had a discriptor to come Between IN PRODUCTION and EXTINCT as I've said many times before, I just cannot picture DEC 31 3079 the forces of the IS have 100's if not 1000's of 'Mech XYZ-123 in their stables and then on JAN 1 3080 they all suddenly disappeared.

I'm pretty sure if I started looking I could find lots of real world miltitary examples of smaller nations still having Antiquated units.
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Sartris

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #1449 on: 07 August 2019, 09:55:07 »
we'll never get that level of detail. the in production moniker is rather useless in a lot of cases - like the grasshopper and whitworth for two that haven't been produced since the 2700s, but still exist in numbers substantial enough to make it on lists for 400 years. which, by the by, never existed in thousands - a few hundred whitworths supplied the entire stock, including upgrades, into the 3070s. i doubt more than a handful of mechs outside of the Star League were produced in the thousands. extinct in 3050 means extinct by 3050 - sometime before the next era starts, they're all gone. it's not the mech rapture.

numbers are imaginary and math is fake
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No one should put any stock in the production numbers that have been printed, in any book, ever.
The writers certainly don't.
Production goes at the speed of plot.
source because i can't quote a locked thread

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nckestrel

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #1450 on: 07 August 2019, 09:57:34 »
Since the MUL never says anybody has 100s to 1000s o anything, that is a co platelet false argument.

The MUL only does ~6+ In a faction (there are likely multiple of that unit in multiple command for that faction), no comment, and extinct.
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NeonKnight

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #1451 on: 07 August 2019, 10:38:38 »
I just find funny how everytime the EXTINCT argument comes up and I say in my HEAD CANON I use my thought I always get the:

But that's not how the MUL looks at things.


But I say again...In MY games, that is how I view the EXTINCT availability. ;)
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #1452 on: 07 August 2019, 10:43:04 »
Why on Earth would you deliberately decide to interpret something as both 1) not what it actually means, which has been defined before and 2) Makes the entire MUL framework around it make less sense? ???

I don't get it.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #1453 on: 07 August 2019, 10:49:45 »
Why on Earth would you deliberately decide to interpret something as both 1) not what it actually means, which has been defined before and 2) Makes the entire MUL framework around it make less sense? ???

I don't get it.

i mean people can do whatever. i subscribe to pedantry on this particular topic because there has to be a set definition for baseline discussion and there has been, historically, a lot of misconceptions about what that definition is.

Probably because I look at EXTINCT as meaning

this doesn't explicitly connote headcanon my mostly literal brain. i would have kept my mouth shut if normal brain function were a strong suit of mine  :-X


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NeonKnight

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #1454 on: 07 August 2019, 11:03:48 »
Why on Earth would you deliberately decide to interpret something as both 1) not what it actually means, which has been defined before and 2) Makes the entire MUL framework around it make less sense? ???

I don't get it.

Here's Why (Please forgive my crappy Creative Writing Skills :P):

Quote

December 31, 3085, Portland, Fronq Reaches

Corporal Dan "NewbKiller" Colter piloted his Thorn THE-S into the repair bay. He had just returned from patrol having drawn the short straw for the New Year's Eve schedule. Well, he thought to himself as he powered down the little mech, Looks like I got back in time that I won't miss the whole party, the countdown clock, sure, but still some time to socialize...maybe even give Mary a New Year's Eve Kiss!

He chuckled to himself as he started across the repair bay thinking of the attractive young Astrotech, his reverie interupted as his wrist chronometer beeped, signalling midnight, the start of the new year 3086. He looked at the watch as realization spread across his face.

DAMN, my Gloves! he thought, I left them in the cockpit! He loved them gloves. They were a gift from his mother two years past when he left home to join the forces on Portland.

Turning about to return to his Thorn, he stood in shock, his neurohelmet clattering to the ground as it slipped from his numb fingers.

HIS THORN WAS GONE! Wha-....what hapend to his 'MECH!?!?! It should be right THERE!!! He just parked it minutes ago!

His face blanched as all color drained in shock. he had no idea how he was going to explained to the Quartermaster let alone the C.O. how his mech suddenly disappeared.

And THAT is why in my games the inital few years of an EXTINCT avaialbility means they still exist as they are slowly removed for more realistic reasons ;)

The THORN THE-S is available to Draconis Combine and Periphery Forces during the Jihad (3068 -3085) but EXTINCT for EARLY REPUBLIC (3086 - 3100)

No matter how many people tell me: Whelp them's the rules!, I will always refer to the poorly written Narative above
« Last Edit: 07 August 2019, 11:08:42 by NeonKnight »
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Sartris

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #1455 on: 07 August 2019, 11:15:45 »
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I am Belch II

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #1456 on: 07 August 2019, 11:20:23 »
Is there any updates on when the releases from Gencon will be released??
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kinwolf

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #1457 on: 07 August 2019, 12:19:16 »
Anyone has a street date for TRO: Clan Invasion for FLGS?

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #1458 on: 07 August 2019, 12:23:42 »
Is there any updates on when the releases from Gencon will be released??


There were only two Gen con releases: Kill Zone and Kell Hounds Ascendant.


You can get a dead tree copy of Kill Zone here: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/battletech-philip-a-lee/1132630635?ean=9781942487883
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #1459 on: 07 August 2019, 12:36:04 »
Both are also PoD on Amazon

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Brigoon

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #1460 on: 07 August 2019, 13:31:43 »
I know we have this discussion all the time ;)

I just really, really, really wish the MUL/BT in general had a discriptor to come Between IN PRODUCTION and EXTINCT as I've said many times before, I just cannot picture DEC 31 3079 the forces of the IS have 100's if not 1000's of 'Mech XYZ-123 in their stables and then on JAN 1 3080 they all suddenly disappeared.

I'm pretty sure if I started looking I could find lots of real world miltitary examples of smaller nations still having Antiquated units.

https://www.quora.com/What-militaries-still-use-WW2-era-tanks

Ask and the internet shale give. I'm amazed the Stuart is still in use, lots of T-34s still kicking around apparently. article is a good read. 
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nckestrel

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #1461 on: 07 August 2019, 14:48:50 »
No matter how many people tell me: Whelp them's the rules!, I will always refer to the poorly written Narative above

Can you stop with the straw man arguements?
1. I didn't say anything like "whelp them's the rules".
2. I don't care what you do in your game. I encourage you to make it your own and do what you want with your game.
3. Even for the MUL's guidelines for what we mean when we say x, we acknowledge their could be exceptions.

Stop trying to be a matyr.  Nobody is taking away your Thorns.  As somebody quoted me earlier, our only intention is that you be informed.  I don't like somebody coming up and saying "why didn't you tell me the Von Rohrs was extinct in 3052!"  If you see the MUL said extinct for the Thorn, and you want a Thorn, good for you.  It's your game. 

But by the same measure, stop trying to tell us the MUL what we mean when we say extinct.  We set our definition, and that's what it means on the MUL. We don't mean there can't be any at all, there must not be any of them in service and nobody could possibly build one.  We don't mean you can't have one.  We mean you should be aware that the majority of the Inner Sphere considers it gone.  (They can be wrong). 
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LightGuard

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #1462 on: 07 August 2019, 15:05:52 »
...

Anyways, knowing Kill Zone is Volume Seven of the BattleCorps Anthology, where can I get a copy of Volume Six?

I've asked this before, but I think it was another thread. I'd be happy to buy both Six and Seven, provided I can get Six at least digitally. :fine_print:
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Bosefius

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #1463 on: 07 August 2019, 15:15:14 »
...

Anyways, knowing Kill Zone is Volume Seven of the BattleCorps Anthology, where can I get a copy of Volume Six?

I've asked this before, but I think it was another thread. I'd be happy to buy both Six and Seven, provided I can get Six at least digitally. :fine_print:

It's being worked on to offer it digitally and as POD. We hope to have an update soon.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIV: Aw, what's in the box!!?
« Reply #1464 on: 07 August 2019, 15:16:09 »
Thread locked for size, and to give everyone a chance to cool off.
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