Author Topic: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III (Read 88327 times)

Sjhernan3060 · « **Reply #270 on:** 05 September 2019, 20:00:53 »

How long did it take for the horses to move everything to their inner strength here? While I know they have some Potemkins did they have to rent out additional transportation?

Kojak · « **Reply #271 on:** 05 September 2019, 23:25:33 »

IIRC, all the answers to that are found in the Wars of Reaving sourcebook.

truetanker · « **Reply #272 on:** 24 October 2019, 00:29:23 »

How many Kokou would you say are left in the old Cache - Solahma, or just plain traded away / left behind?

Any chance Society got some?

TT

Maelwys · « **Reply #273 on:** 24 October 2019, 11:12:31 »

They're pure Clantech. There's really no reason for them to be cached, and no reason to leave them behind or stop using them, other than breaking down to the point of being salvaged.

marauder648 · « **Reply #274 on:** 16 November 2019, 06:05:16 »

Folks, I need your help!

Trying to do an OOB (Order Of Battle) for the Horses and we came across a problem. The Infantry.

Of all the Clans, the Horses are pretty much the only one to deploy Infantry in anything beyond a mere security or anti-bandit role. Save them, the Spirits who have to because they have no other recourse, and the Bears (largely as the Dominion) they're the only Clan that uses infantry anywhere near the front line or actually on it.

But how do they deploy them? Especially during a REVIVAL era setting.

Are infantry Star's (of any type, Motorized, jump pack, foot etc) part of a Cluster and just bid away 9/10 times, or are they attached to a Cluster on a more adhoc manner, or are they even part of the Cluster with several Stars of infantry attached to a Galaxy (5 stars would be 625 infantry after all), but not viewed as part of their order of battle (as you'd then have to take into account the transport forces, as well as things like engineers, medics, etc etc etc).

The idea me and Beachhead came up with is that the Infantry Stars, engineer formations, logistics units etc are a permanent fixture on a Galaxies OOB and are even part of certain Clusters that they have a history with, but on the whole they are part of the Galaxies HQ and are dolled out as needed. Against a Clan, such forces would just be bid away in most cases, but against the Inner Sphere that might well change.

The big problem is that with the Horses going and having lots of Nova formations (Star of Mechs and a Star of Tanks or Elementals or if the tanks can carry them anyhow, Elementals for sure!) is that a Hell's Horse cluster is BIG in numerical terms and if you add infantry Stars into the mix you're going to go beyond the 5 star to a cluster formation without wanting to bid away chunks of your Cluster if they are infantry/tank Nova's. And, by deploying more Nova formations, the Horses clusters would be numerically very big compared to other Clan's but if the 5 Trinaries to a Cluster is the upper limit of their size as mandated by Nicky's dumb ideas then you have to either have the infantry attached in some other way or form an Infantry Galaxy which then doles out the troops as needed and use the Galaxy basically as an administrative formation.

What do you folks think?

Ruger · « **Reply #275 on:** 16 November 2019, 07:02:01 »

Quote from: marauder648 on 16 November 2019, 06:05:16

Folks, I need your help!

Trying to do an OOB (Order Of Battle) for the Horses and we came across a problem. The Infantry.

Of all the Clans, the Horses are pretty much the only one to deploy Infantry in anything beyond a mere security or anti-bandit role. Save them, the Spirits who have to because they have no other recourse, and the Bears (largely as the Dominion) they're the only Clan that uses infantry anywhere near the front line or actually on it.

But how do they deploy them? Especially during a REVIVAL era setting.

Per FMCC, page 59: “ The average Hell’s Horses Cluster consists of five Trinaries, of which Alpha, Beta and Gamma are typically BattleMech and Elemental mixed. The ratio of ‘Mechs to Elementals varies with the Trinary’s function in the Cluster, but both of these assets are always present in these units. Trinary Delta is usually aerospace fighter support, the only pure Trinary in a standard cluster. Trinary Epsilon is normally a Supernova of conventional armor and conventional infantry, and serves as the Cluster’s support element.”

Earlier on the same page, it is stated “all vehicle Stars contain an equivalent number of conventional infantry Points.”

Now, I could easily see this as each point of armor consists of one mainline combat unit and one infantry fighting vehicle paired together with the latter carrying a point of conventional infantry. Pairing Epona’s and Svantovit’s (I’m fond of the original model for the paired Streak-4’s and 3 ton infantry bay) makes sense to me for this in hover units. You could also have heavier tracked unit pairings, VTOL pairings, etc.. Vehicles with larger cargo bays may conceivably transport infantry and field guns.

Ruger

marauder648 · « **Reply #276 on:** 16 November 2019, 07:17:29 »

Quote from: Ruger on 16 November 2019, 07:02:01

Per FMCC, page 59: “ The average Hell’s Horses Cluster consists of five Trinaries, of which Alpha, Beta and Gamma are typically BattleMech and Elemental mixed. The ratio of ‘Mechs to Elementals varies with the Trinary’s function in the Cluster, but both of these assets are always present in these units. Trinary Delta is usually aerospace fighter support, the only pure Trinary in a standard cluster. Trinary Epsilon is normally a Supernova of conventional armor and conventional infantry, and serves as the Cluster’s support element.”

Earlier on the same page, it is stated “all vehicle Stars contain an equivalent number of conventional infantry Points.”

Now, I could easily see this as each point of armor consists of one mainline combat unit and one infantry fighting vehicle paired together with the latter carrying a point of conventional infantry. Pairing Epona’s and Svantovit’s (I’m fond of the original model for the paired Streak-4’s and 3 ton infantry bay) makes sense to me for this in hover units. You could also have heavier tracked unit pairings, VTOL pairings, etc.. Vehicles with larger cargo bays may conceivably transport infantry and field guns.

Ruger

Ooh! That's useful information! Thank you :D

truetanker · « **Reply #277 on:** 16 November 2019, 20:46:47 »

Also don't forget about the Bandit C models, Wolf's Dragoons brought them over when the came...

And there's the Enyo to content with, also Fast Recon infantry at 20 personnel each.

TT

Ruger · « **Reply #278 on:** 17 November 2019, 06:03:05 »

Quote from: truetanker on 16 November 2019, 20:46:47

Also don't forget about the Bandit C models, Wolf's Dragoons brought them over when the came...

And there's the Enyo to content with, also Fast Recon infantry at 20 personnel each.

TT

I believe the Badger C would pair well with the Enyo.

The Bandit C would be a good alternative to the Svantovit, especially for jump infantry units

Ruger

marauder648 · « **Reply #279 on:** 19 November 2019, 23:24:48 »

Just gonna leave this here for folks :D

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=67577.0

Kojak · « **Reply #280 on:** 26 November 2019, 05:20:05 »

Is this guy the namesake of current Horses saKhan Fulk Lassenerra?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulk_III,_Count_of_Anjou

Sjhernan3060 · « **Reply #281 on:** 18 January 2020, 14:58:04 »

It never occurred to me until now but is horsemanship prized by this clan? I mean their totem animal which is a meat eating horse was probably not ride able but what have the non blood thristy as regular horses?

Maelwys · « **Reply #282 on:** 18 January 2020, 15:31:50 »

I think some of the early Dark Ages novels when Malvina first encounters them has the Horses kind of running around like its the 1300s or whatever, but I don't think I've seen it any place else (And you could claim that the scene I'm thinking about is just Beta with its Mongol leanings and the rest of the Horses are like "Yeah, they're kind of nuts").

Sjhernan3060 · « **Reply #283 on:** 18 January 2020, 15:53:44 »

Quote from: Maelwys on 18 January 2020, 15:31:50

I think some of the early Dark Ages novels when Malvina first encounters them has the Horses kind of running around like its the 1300s or whatever, but I don't think I've seen it any place else (And you could claim that the scene I'm thinking about is just Beta with its Mongol leanings and the rest of the Horses are like "Yeah, they're kind of nuts").

Lol I know their was a huge range on his intent their totems the various clans got so yes that makes sense

Maelwys · « **Reply #284 on:** 24 January 2020, 12:34:14 »

Its in Rending of Falcons, and its the Fire Horse Galaxy, and it indicates they take them with them with even Malvina wondering what they do with them when it comes to high-g maneuvers.

Sjhernan3060 · « **Reply #285 on:** 14 April 2020, 08:17:50 »

Did the horses dislike all fire mandrill kindraa?

Maelwys · « **Reply #286 on:** 14 April 2020, 09:13:03 »

Most of them. They had special reason to dislike the Smythe-Jewel Kindraa, but they basically destroyed that.

However, FM:Crusader Clan has a small note on what each Clan thinks about the other. The one about the Fire Mandrills for the Horses is "The factional lot has perverted Kerensky's ideals; most of them deserve to be destroyed like the Kindraa Smythe-Jewel. The exception is the Kindraa Payne, who deserve credit for their honor."

Sjhernan3060 · « **Reply #287 on:** 14 April 2020, 13:18:05 »

Quote from: Maelwys on 14 April 2020, 09:13:03

Most of them. They had special reason to dislike the Smythe-Jewel Kindraa, but they basically destroyed that.

However, FM:Crusader Clan has a small note on what each Clan thinks about the other. The one about the Fire Mandrills for the Horses is "The factional lot has perverted Kerensky's ideals; most of them deserve to be destroyed like the Kindraa Smythe-Jewel. The exception is the Kindraa Payne, who deserve credit for their honor."

See this is one of the reasons I really like the horses. Even when they put down another faction they go out of their way to add nuance. “ most of those mandrills are jerks. But the paynes? Those guys are all right!”

Kojak · « **Reply #288 on:** 06 July 2020, 13:15:29 »

So, fellow Horses, any thoughts on the new stuff we got in the latest RecGuide?

Maelwys · « **Reply #289 on:** 06 July 2020, 18:21:28 »

Did the Horses get anything from the REcGuide?

edit
Oh the Behemoth stuff I guess. Anything else?
/edit

Maelwys · « **Reply #290 on:** 06 July 2020, 23:47:20 »

I have to admit, my first thought is "Is this something the Horses need?" In between the other 6 variants of the Behemoth, the Annihilators, Cygnuses, Hellstars...

Now, that's not to say the Behemoth is bad. The 7 is a nasty little energy design that can keep going where as the standard variants run out of GR ammo. The 8 is a nice little touch when you're got Jade Falcons jumping all over the place and you want to equalize the field.

It looks like the Horses are a big (ish) user of the Grendel, but I think I'd have to play around with the variants before I remark much on them, though I like the Horses getting a fast mover like that.

Deadborder · « **Reply #291 on:** 08 July 2020, 02:53:33 »

The Behemoth 8 is kind of silly fun. The temptation to go around punching things for laughs is pretty strong.

The new Grendel configurations are... eccentric.

Sjhernan3060 · « **Reply #292 on:** 08 July 2020, 10:15:06 »

Quote from: Maelwys on 14 April 2020, 09:13:03

Most of them. They had special reason to dislike the Smythe-Jewel Kindraa, but they basically destroyed that.

However, FM:Crusader Clan has a small note on what each Clan thinks about the other. The one about the Fire Mandrills for the Horses is "The factional lot has perverted Kerensky's ideals; most of them deserve to be destroyed like the Kindraa Smythe-Jewel. The exception is the Kindraa Payne, who deserve credit for their honor."

Was that galaxy level conflict very unusual for the time?

truetanker · « **Reply #293 on:** 08 July 2020, 11:01:32 »

No, but that particular fought their battles and observed the ritual duel without cheating much, unlike others... Smythe-Jewel Kindraa, which attacked us with provocation. They killed without mercy.

TT

Maelwys · « **Reply #294 on:** 08 July 2020, 11:28:45 »

Yeah, eccentric is a good word.

The F will murder anything almost anything but Mechs, and only for 10 rounds. Against Mechs it can play the heat game, but its actual damage output, even using HE ATM ammo, won't cause a PSR. Good if you're expecting heavy non-mech forces, but the endurance is pretty limited.

G is a short range battery of micropulse and medium pulse lasers. With a Watchdog. Short range electronic warfare, short range combat and a bunch of AI damage. Don't have to worry about ammo. Some heat problems if you try to fire everything and jump, but nothing too outrageously bad. Okay for Scout hunting, good for criting-seeking and AI damage. Probably good at getting past a proto's "Near miss" result with lots of little hits. Oh, and a supercharger, just incase 7/11/7 wasn't fast enough.

I is oddity. PAC backed by a IS Plasma Rifle, back by an ERML. Not...really sure what to do with it.

J is a bunch of Streak 6's backed by a mix of SLs of various types. Kind of reminds me of a Kintaro variant.

M is a RAC backed by a ERLL. For when you want to stay way, way way way way way over on the other side of the game and annoy your opponent. Or maybe crit them out if you're lucky.

T is pretty normal reminds me of a Hellhound/Conjurer. LPL backed by lasers and missiles. Perhaps the most "normal" design out of them.

None of them bother with actuators in the RA, so that aesthetic remains the same.

Maelwys · « **Reply #295 on:** 08 July 2020, 11:52:43 »

Quote from: Sjhernan3060 on 08 July 2020, 10:15:06

Was that galaxy level conflict very unusual for the time?

We don't really know. Its kind of murky back then. I mean, you sort of think things are going to be all Trials and what not, but you also see things like multi-Galaxy conflict between the Bears and Horses on Tokasha, so maybe large-scale conflicts isn't too unusual.

Though I will note that the combined Horse/Coyote forces is describe as "nearly three full Clusters" so it would've been half a galaxy.

truetanker · « **Reply #296 on:** 08 July 2020, 12:31:11 »

And it depended on which units too... Horses used Nova commands and also more Binaryou features than others. Stars of PBI weren't uncommon either. Simple Nova of Indra and foot infantry makes since, Bandit / Badger -C formations...

TT

Sjhernan3060 · « **Reply #297 on:** 02 August 2020, 00:02:04 »

Question RE: the horses IS invasion. I know khan fletcher made the contract bid with vlad but was that supposed to be just a short term deal and not a path towards full migration?

Jellico · « **Reply #298 on:** 02 August 2020, 04:37:05 »

Depends on who you ask.

Vlad was hiring some ablative armor.

Malavai was looking for a hunting ground to get some bears. I am not sure anyone at that time other than the Bears, Exiles, and Cats were looking beyond exploitable occupation zones.

CJC070 · « **Reply #299 on:** 02 August 2020, 15:02:11 »

Quote from: Sjhernan3060 on 02 August 2020, 00:02:04

Question RE: the horses IS invasion. I know khan fletcher made the contract bid with vlad but was that supposed to be just a short term deal and not a path towards full migration?

According to the War of Reavings they were planning a migration. I got the impression the wanted a foot in each door so they could get the resources from the Inner Sphere and have the production of the Homeworlds. In the end they have the resources and even with the Wolves pulls out limited production one of the reasons on why the Mongol Doctrine was pushed forward for the Hell’s Horses.