Planetary Invasion Targets

[Gryphon]

How exactly does one's invasion force include sufficient troops to really have a chance to succeed on taking a planet, and yet manage to so thoroughly sneak up on a planet that interdicting FTL commo sitting on the surface is possible? It takes like days to weeks to get to a planet from a nearby pirate point, right? hours at a bare minimum. And of you have enough troops, you aren't going to be hard to spot during your ingress on a target planet. How long does it take to send that plea for assistance anyhow?

Rather than stop that plea in the first place, plan for ti to happen. Know what troops are in nearby systems that can and more likely will respond, and be ready for them to arrive. Have a few pre-positioned platoons of infiltrators (as difficult as this is to actually pull off) in position to cut commo at the critical time by shooting anyone approaching the HPG station, cutting landlines with tools or explosives, and deploying low power radio and cell jammers. You only need this for as long as it takes to get a real force into the same general area of the HPG, and then you have denied the enemy real value, in this case, just how much did the droppers bring. Teh invasion isn't going to remain a secret for any length of time, but how prepared you are might.

Also, rather than an all in one push, have your back up arrive three to four days after fighting begins. Too late for the enemy to know they are coming, but early enough they can be down, in place, and dug in for a fight. Even this is iffy. If an enemy has even a basic communications capability left (one command mech works here) and any ability to see these troops unload and move into position, they can still tell the relief forces what they are and where they went.

Come to think of it, the more I actually consider this, the more it looks like a reasonably well developed world is impossible to take and hold if the populous doesn't like you, and the force you bring isn't totally overwhelming to the defenders. And even then, if the enemies response is in excess of what you are prepared for, you had better be prepared to un-ass your positions and abandon the planet...though that might be a pretty good idea for preparing another location for another invasion force I guess.

[Minemech]

 It could take a while after the House defending units have been destroyed, but even the most fanatical populations can be pacified. It may require extensive efforts on the part of the invading state and time, but it will happen if the House wants it to.

[Colt Ward]

Some folks are confusing too much current behaviors and a bit of Xin Sheng with the BT sheep . . . most folks just do not care.

[Auman]

The thing with cutting off HPG communications is that you're really messing with C* and they will get real mad at you if you horse around. That's why I avoid it all together and just hope my plan and soldiers are good enough to kick ass hard enough to get the job done.

Before you seek to destroy the enemy, you need to make sure they aren't going to be getting help from anywhere at all on world. Transport hubs, space ports and orbital facilities of any kind are the first stop on the road to success... Trashing or seizing them is a smart idea before you close with and destroy your enemy. Because wrecking your opponents is cool and all, but if they're getting replacements as soon as you kill everything, then you're just running on a treadmill.

So, my soup instructions for success start with infrastructure... Which the enemy will likely be defending anyway. So, if you hit the infrastructure, you're also probably going to kill a lot of bad guys. If they opt out of defending the infrastructure and choose to fight a different kind of war, you've cut them off from support and they'll be easier to kill over the long term.

[Gryphon]

I agree, don't piss with mother bell*...but that is not the same thing as deliberately isolating a massive military asset such that it doesn't get customers for a few hours, or even days. They aren't the local telecom network. That's why its local, and not interstellar.

More than that, prior to Com* showing their hand with the Guards, Com* was no more in a position to idly cut off a house due to their individual assets being momentarily isolated from surrounding populations then they were able to walk up to a house and say "give us this or we will cut your phone lines." Push come to shove the inner sphere coudl and would take Com* out of they proved to be such a threat, ComGuard or no, control of HPGs or no.

Think about it from the view of a major player. You tolerate Com*s weirdness because everyone else does, and because they provide a valuable service so you don't have to. But if they suddenly start trying to dictate how you run your realm, or try to tell you to leave their customers alone to call for help, its not worth the trouble any longer, and ALL the house lords would see that pretty quickly. Suddenly massive numbers of special operatives descend on critical installations across the entire inner sphere, spreading out to handle secondary and tertiary targets over a period of a few months, and Com* is either politely ejected back to Holy Terra, there to be hired for basic repairs, or flat out eliminated as a threat to their realm, and then they spend the time required to overcome the learning curve for running, maintaining, and eventually manufacturing HPGs.

Com* has influence, yes, but if they try to dictate policy to a realm, they lose. Even with the Guard, and cutting links, they still lose. Their outnumbered crap tons to micrograms across the board, and that was before the Clans arrived, and well before they divided their power with the Wobblies. How no one should have let run an ice cream stand, never mind move in and take over contracts for interstellar communications networks. Most especially after Black Box tech, and with pony express set ups in play. Two, three years tops, and the inner sphere has purged Com* and started figuring out HPGs for themselves. And if ROM comes out of the shadows to eliminate the HPGs, then all of those house intel assets (competent of not...) are suddenly focused on them as much as they are each other.

Face it, Com* is a bit of silliness that exists in a very, very narrow field of allowance within Battletech. If they stray too far form that narrow field, they go away. The only thing keeping them in play is deus ex machine allowing them to have far, far superior intel agencies, and the eventual arrival of the Clans distracting everyone from realizing their tech levels were about to make the necessary step to actual create their own HPG network.

[Sami Jumppanen]

The thing with cutting off HPG communications is that you're really messing with C* and they will get real mad at you if you horse around. That's why I avoid it all together and just hope my plan and soldiers are good enough to kick ass hard enough to get the job done.

Actualy no. I can't remember what source book mentions it, but Comstar does allow local goverments to monitor/controll access to their services. All is well long as HPG station and other Comstar properties remain intact. Or why do you expect Kuritans or Liao allow Comstar to operate on their turf?

As for my vote, i left out the orbital facilities as you are supposed to get air superiority before the landfall anyway so if there are any satelites enemy might use then do them at the same time. Or at least try to get their controll along with the spaceport if you didn't bring your own stuff to replace them.

I did vote for the HPG because even if your enemy can call for help you may wish to use that HPG youself.

And i also voted for the largest base as you do need to neutralise enemy forces on the planet so why not? Obiviously opponent may do lots of things that may render that mase irrelevant, but it still propably has all kinds of things in it you may need. Like barracks (nice to have for your troops), repair facilities and all kinds of C³ facilities you wish at least deny from your opponent. Base like this may also contain supplies your enemy couldn't move in time so deny them also.

As you may have quessed i voted for the spaceport also. But i might as well vote for the capital city as all of the above tend to be there and more.

[Auman]

Staying on Comstar's good side is always a good idea... Or else they'll fabricate evidence against you in order to shut off your access to the HPG network. It happened to Hanse, it can happen to you, so in my opinion it should just be left alone... It's just not worth your time. As far as directly confronting the enemy at their primary base of operations, I'd rather draw them out some where I would prefer to fight. A military facility is likely well prepared to receive you and the liklihood of you destroying the facilities you want to control are much higher in a pitched battle.

Move to strangle the enemy and eventually they have to come to you, preferably on a battlefield of your choosing. If you win, you'll have destroyed their forces and you'll be more able to seize tue things you want while you already control the things you need. Barracks are cool and all, but your men should be prepared to sleep in tents until the first operational phase is over, if not longer.

[epic]

Some folks are confusing too much current behaviors and a bit of Xin Sheng with the BT sheep . . . most folks just do not care.

^^^  This.

[Minemech]

^^^  This.

Where?

[Paladin1]

Interesting poll Colt, I'd have to say that my top three priorities are influenced by the fact that they're all primary phase objectives.

Top priority is to secure the approaches to the planet, so that means the orbital facilities.  I can't leave a hostile force behind me if I'm here to claim this planet.  The intel that these facilities would supply would be incredibly useful, not only due to the combat on the ground, but also due to the knowledge of what's going on in the rest of the system.  If a relief force jumps in-system, I'll need to know about it ASAP.

Initial drop is going to be split between the Spaceport and the power station supplying it.  If I'm dropping with a full Regiment like Lyran Archer mentioned, I'm dropping a Battalion on the Spaceport, a Battalion on the power plant and keeping a Battalion in reserve in case one of the assaults get's bogged down.  Once my beachhead is established so that I can bring down my support and garrison forces, I'll look at expanding outwards with an eye towards capturing the water and food sources that supply my territory as well as capturing any local transportation nodes that I'll need to hold before going into full conquest mode.  After all, what good is it if I capture a Spaceport but I'm restricted to how effectively I can wage war by hostile natives because the city that surrounds that spaceport was cut off from food and water because of my invasion.  Civilians in the BTUniverse may be sheep, but even sheep will attack if they're hungry enough.

[Sami Jumppanen]

Staying on Comstar's good side is always a good idea... Or else they'll fabricate evidence against you in order to shut off your access to the HPG network. It happened to Hanse, it can happen to you, so in my opinion it should just be left alone... It's just not worth your time. As far as directly confronting the enemy at their primary base of operations, I'd rather draw them out some where I would prefer to fight. A military facility is likely well prepared to receive you and the liklihood of you destroying the facilities you want to control are much higher in a pitched battle.

Move to strangle the enemy and eventually they have to come to you, preferably on a battlefield of your choosing. If you win, you'll have destroyed their forces and you'll be more able to seize tue things you want while you already control the things you need. Barracks are cool and all, but your men should be prepared to sleep in tents until the first operational phase is over, if not longer.

I basicaly agree on both cases, but just to remind that comstar has enacted that interdiction only once and on that time comstar was deliberately looking for the chance to do so. So, yes. You should be carefull when taking HPG but at the same time it is nothing unusual.

As for capture the base/lure enemies away from that base -issue: You are just suggesting an annother way to achieve the goal witch is to capture the base.

[Minemech]

I basicaly agree on both cases, but just to remind that comstar has enacted that interdiction only once and on that time comstar was deliberately looking for the chance to do so. So, yes. You should be carefull when taking HPG but at the same time it is nothing unusual.

That is factually inaccurate.

[Sami Jumppanen]

That is factually inaccurate.

When was the other time?

[Minemech]

When was the other time?

That depends on which you were referring to, we have 3 major interdictions in Comstar's history, one against House Steiner which was over taxes, and 2 more relevent ones, one in the 4th which was framed on troops that were not present and another over the destruction of an HPG compound on Oriente.

[Sami Jumppanen]

That depends on which you were referring to, we have 3 major interdictions in Comstar's history, one against House Steiner which was over taxes, and 2 more relevent ones, one in the 4th which was framed on troops that were not present and another over the destruction of an HPG compound on Oriente.

But you do agree on what i wrote earlier? Where was that Oriente thing mentioned?

[Paladin1]

The Marik Interdiction was first mentioned in the original HBHM and mentioned again, IIRC, in the FWL Handbook.

[Minemech]

But you do agree on what i wrote earlier? Where was that Oriente thing mentioned?

Comstar would probably not do a state wide interdiction unless that was their original intent. This is not to say they would not choose from a motley of other measures of retaliation, just that statewide interdictions are calculated political moves which are planned well in advance. There are complicating factors such as the extent of damages and importance of the world. Comstar as a rational actor is weary of overplaying its hand except when absolutely necessary. In most cases demanding reperations should suffice for them. If they really want to go after you, but not to the extent of interdiction, they might send tri-vids of the event Inner Sphere wide to embarrass the state over the seeming lack of professionalism of its troops while covertly making the invasion harder. Inner Sphere powers do their best not to be put in such positions.

[Auman]

Which is why I'd avoid it altogether... Makes political sense.

[Hersh67]

The Marik interdiction was the first and it was used by C* to set an example.  The Mariks didn't know that C* would actually shut their coms down as it had never been done before.  Once they were on the recieving end of an Interdiction, you'll note they never provoked another.  Hanse knew better than to directly attack a HPG facility so that attack had to be staged, and it was done as a political move by the (idiot) Primus. 

[RunandFindOut]

The Marik interdiction was the first and it was used by C* to set an example.  The Mariks didn't know that C* would actually shut their coms down as it had never been done before.  Once they were on the recieving end of an Interdiction, you'll note they never provoked another.  Hanse knew better than to directly attack a HPG facility so that attack had to be staged, and it was done as a political move by the (idiot) Primus.

I had an AU running for a while that had the FWL go ballistic over the interdiction instead, where Terra caught One At Sufficient Velocity (from two dozen Mammoths loaded with fuel and cobalt striking Earth/Mars/Venus along with about thirty thousand tons of relativistic sand wrecking orbital infrastructures).  And fighting turning into a bloodbath far exceeding the Fall of the SL.  Result was HPG tech gets lost and the Inner Sphere balkanized into a Second Age of War.