"C" Refit Rules

[TigerShark]

As a general rule, a (C) design pulled autocannons and missile systems and replaced them with Clan versions.  No heat sinks, no electronics, no CASE..generally no energy weapons.

You mean aside from the Warhammer C's twin Large Pulse Lasers? :)

[gooseman]

You mean aside from the Warhammer C's twin Large Pulse Lasers? :)

Yes, 'generally' implies an exception.

[TigerShark]

Yes, 'generally' implies an exception.

There are only a handful of (C) designs and a few of them replace lasers. There's no evidence to back that assumption.

[Alexander Knight]

There are only a handful of (C) designs and a few of them replace lasers. There's no evidence to back that assumption.

Marauder C -- retains Inner Sphere Medium Lasers
Warhammer C -- retains Inner Sphere Machine Guns
Atlas C -- retains Inner sphere Medium Lasers

[gooseman]

There are only a handful of (C) designs and a few of them replace lasers. There's no evidence to back that assumption.

Let's see: Per FASA 1649, Record Sheets, Volume 3, Heavy Mechs:

Only the Marauders ML's remain unchanged, you are correct.

Didn't look at the Assault 'Mechs.... But Alexander caught them.

Warhammer MG's any evidence they are one tech base or the other? Weights aren't listed in FASA1649

[Wolf72]

Last time I looked at the fluff on Sarna, it said the MG's were Inner Sphere models ... not that it would matter to much, you could as the BV is the same.  (re-read post, I must have blinked and saw ML's not MG's)

I always hoped the Clans would have had some Awesomes to field refit ... 3 P LL and and ER SL would be pretty nice on the 8Q, even with the SHS.

[TigerShark]

Marauder C -- retains Inner Sphere Medium Lasers
Warhammer C -- retains Inner Sphere Machine Guns
Atlas C -- retains Inner sphere Medium Lasers

Re-read his post.

[FedComGirl]

Except I seem to remember some sort of recent ruling about that sort of swap not being allowed anymore. Seems like it was during a discussion regarding the ComGuard's Clanbuster refits.

They're still allowed but there's a lot of conditions placed on it to avoid people cheating on engine costs. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I don't know why TPTB just don't say the cost of the engine is always going to by by weight even if you purchase a lighter engine of the same size because the cost of moving the heat sinks around and the hook ups and what not will use up any savings you might have had with the lighter engine.



I think the C refits just replaced IS weapons with Clan the closest weapon match that wouldn't overburden the mechs heat sinks.  A Clan LPL is equal to an IS PPC in terms of heat and damage. A Clan ER Medium Laser though generates more heat than the IS version.

[nckestrel]

Re-read his post.

He said generally.
You listed one exception.
He said one exception is "allowed" in a generally and somebody provided three examples of where lasers were not changed.

So, so far, we have three examples that follow the generally and one exception?
Though I'm guessing the Imp C and/or Shogun C break that as well. 
And doesn't the Thunderbolt C swap the large laser?

[Maingunnery]

The underweight 'C' refits don't make sense to me, they are canon, but still...... I would have preferred if during the weapon swaps that they added single heatsinks to keep the switched tonnage (in each location) the same. This would means that an IS PPC could be replaced by a Clan LPL+SHS.

[JadeHellbringer]

Note that the 'C' refits don't always follow these rules- the Champion and Battlemaster both got 'C' refits that end up being pretty awesome Mechs (the Battlemaster-C may be one of the games best assault Mechs in fact), but have toys like double heat sinks, Clan internal components, and the like. Whereas the Warhammer, Victor, etc. were refitted isorla Mechs, the Battlemaster is even new construction (not sure on the Champion). And yet, still a 'C' design, not a 'IIC' design. Oh, and then there's the Marauder II-C, the Clan-tech version of the Marauder II that the Dragoons used to use, totally blowing any semblance of rules on building Clan refit Mechs out of the water.



Welcome to a world without rules. ;)

[TigerShark]

He said generally.
You listed one exception.
He said one exception is "allowed" in a generally and somebody provided three examples of where lasers were not changed.

So, so far, we have three examples that follow the generally and one exception?
Though I'm guessing the Imp C and/or Shogun C break that as well. 
And doesn't the Thunderbolt C swap the large laser?

Archer C - Clan ER Medium Lasers
Marauder - Clan Large Pulse Lasers
Rifleman C - Clan Large Pulse Lasers
Shadow Hawk C - Clan ER Medium Laser
Thunderbolt C - Clan Large Pulse Laser
Warhammer C - Clan Large Pulse Laser