Author Topic: Everytime I hear someone complaining about "author fiat"...  (Read 22843 times)

Kitsune413

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Re: Everytime I hear someone complaining about "author fiat"...
« Reply #60 on: 05 August 2013, 10:24:19 »
Herein is where I actually start to side with the fiat crowd.  The monumental failures of DC and FWL during the 4th SW make the CapCon's beating possible.  I can only blame Stackpole so much.  The Dragoons were "handling" the most feared military in the Inner Sphere while the Lyrans.... the Lyrans took advantage.  Say what you want about the build up to beat the CapCon.  The Dragoons being able to hamstring the entire DCMS?  That has never sat well with me.

The Dragoons did soak a lot of the regiments in that district. But I doubt that the Draconis Reach was completely quiet. Also, they are pretty quiet about the Lyran Commonwealth's actions. There are a lot of 4th Succession War products, but they mostly retread what happened in the stackpole novels.

It would be nice if they released a historical that covered the action that the Lyran Commonwealth went through as it distracted its two neighbors. Though, the Free Worlds League was still reeling from its civil war if I remember correctly.
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Re: Everytime I hear someone complaining about "author fiat"...
« Reply #61 on: 05 August 2013, 10:27:12 »
They were taken for a ride by the Tikonov Free Republic Army.

...yep.
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Kitsune413

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Re: Everytime I hear someone complaining about "author fiat"...
« Reply #62 on: 05 August 2013, 10:30:33 »
Though, ironically, the civil war fourteen years earlier involved those same dragoons.
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Re: Everytime I hear someone complaining about "author fiat"...
« Reply #63 on: 05 August 2013, 13:28:00 »
Holy smokes boys! That's it no more dipping my toe I am getting back into BattleTech!  ;D
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Re: Everytime I hear someone complaining about "author fiat"...
« Reply #64 on: 05 August 2013, 13:34:53 »
Herein is where I actually start to side with the fiat crowd.  The monumental failures of DC and FWL during the 4th SW make the CapCon's beating possible.  I can only blame Stackpole so much.  The Dragoons were "handling" the most feared military in the Inner Sphere while the Lyrans.... the Lyrans took advantage.  Say what you want about the build up to beat the CapCon.  The Dragoons being able to hamstring the entire DCMS?  That has never sat well with me.
Dragoons weren't there alone. Team Banzai did its part, and Northwind Highlanders arrived in nick of time to Northwind bagpipes playing. And those were in Stackpole's novels. For more details about those events and whole lot more not covered in the novels, read NAIS Fourth Succession War Military Atlas. And there is Volume 2
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Re: Everytime I hear someone complaining about "author fiat"...
« Reply #65 on: 05 August 2013, 13:58:03 »
In addition, the DC was in the same boat as the CC in that their military was fighting the last war.  The Elsies had changed tactics, fighting more like Davions, and the DC didn't adjust.  The one commander who was thinking forward, Theodore Kurita, was hamstrung by his father and the Warlords as the DC system was designed to be a break upon ambition (to protect the Coordinator) and it held Theodore back when he could have done more.  By the time he was in a position to attack, with his plan having a great chance to carve a huge chunk from the Commonwealth, he had to have all his eggs in one basket.  After Frederick Steine's suicide charge (say what you will about the Drac's tendency toward seppuku, but when they kill themselves to regain their honor they don't take a crack regiment down with them,) at  Dromini VI, followed by the LOKI strike to the jumpships as Katrina's hole card, there was no way to move the assembled troops.  But he learned.  (See the War of 3039.)

Kitsune413

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Re: Everytime I hear someone complaining about "author fiat"...
« Reply #66 on: 05 August 2013, 14:03:40 »
Frederick Steiner is maybe one of my favorite people. His pyrrhic victory over the DC.

Should also probably remember that Wolfs Dragoons are a pretty odd mercenary unit. To try and fit in they came with enough regiments to seem like a normal unit in the first succession war.

They're a massive army in the Fourth.
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Re: Everytime I hear someone complaining about "author fiat"...
« Reply #67 on: 05 August 2013, 14:13:42 »
Frederick Steiner is maybe one of my favorite people. His pyrrhic victory over the DC.


Which in turn gave the DC a bone to throw Comstar when they did not give all of Rasalhage away, which gave Comstar the leader they needed to deal with the Clans, which in turn saved the DC.

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Re: Everytime I hear someone complaining about "author fiat"...
« Reply #68 on: 05 August 2013, 14:30:02 »
Dragoons weren't there alone. Team Banzai did its part, and Northwind Highlanders arrived in nick of time to Northwind bagpipes playing. And those were in Stackpole's novels. For more details about those events and whole lot more not covered in the novels, read NAIS Fourth Succession War Military Atlas. And there is Volume 2

And to add to this, the Davions still lost key worlds, such as Marduk to the Combine.

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Re: Everytime I hear someone complaining about "author fiat"...
« Reply #69 on: 05 August 2013, 14:44:13 »
Dragoons weren't there alone. Team Banzai did its part, and Northwind Highlanders arrived in nick of time to Northwind bagpipes playing. And those were in Stackpole's novels. For more details about those events and whole lot more not covered in the novels, read NAIS Fourth Succession War Military Atlas. And there is Volume 2

The Northwind Highlanders were part of what can only be described as the dubious change of face in the Laio forces, along with the Tikonov Free Republic.  One day they were in the Laio handbook as house troops, next they are fighting the Dracs.  If we're talking about fiat, that certainly needs to be part of the discussion.

And I have read both atlases.  I still prefer the Jihad Hotspot storylines.  Perhaps because there was more history behind the events therein I find the plot twists more believeable.
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Davout73

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Re: Everytime I hear someone complaining about "author fiat"...
« Reply #70 on: 05 August 2013, 15:00:20 »
Herein is where I actually start to side with the fiat crowd.  The monumental failures of DC and FWL during the 4th SW make the CapCon's beating possible.  I can only blame Stackpole so much.  The Dragoons were "handling" the most feared military in the Inner Sphere while the Lyrans.... the Lyrans took advantage.  Say what you want about the build up to beat the CapCon.  The Dragoons being able to hamstring the entire DCMS?  That has never sat well with me.

It wasn't that, but rather that the DCMS, and in particular the Galedon District, became so focused on destroying the Dragoons that the other strategic and tactical options fell by the wayside.  A historical parallel is the German 6th Army at Stalingrad.  There were other tactical options available, and on other fronts, but the focus on taking Stalingrad became such that any other plan of action or effort was either ignored or not given enough attention until it was too late.

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Davout73

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Re: Everytime I hear someone complaining about "author fiat"...
« Reply #71 on: 05 August 2013, 15:01:26 »
The Northwind Highlanders were part of what can only be described as the dubious change of face in the Laio forces, along with the Tikonov Free Republic.  One day they were in the Laio handbook as house troops, next they are fighting the Dracs.  If we're talking about fiat, that certainly needs to be part of the discussion.

Because troops never change sides during the course of a war?

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Re: Everytime I hear someone complaining about "author fiat"...
« Reply #72 on: 05 August 2013, 15:18:44 »
They do.  But, it isn't about whether or not it ever happened ever.  If that is the qualification nothing is rediculous.
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Davout73

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Re: Everytime I hear someone complaining about "author fiat"...
« Reply #73 on: 05 August 2013, 15:24:44 »
They do.  But, it isn't about whether or not it ever happened ever.  If that is the qualification nothing is rediculous.

So whats your quibble with it?  Curious to know.

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Re: Everytime I hear someone complaining about "author fiat"...
« Reply #74 on: 05 August 2013, 15:41:45 »
That is was not just over done, but that it was sloppy.  The Highlanders had 3 of 4 regiments listed as fanatical and they jumped ship without major internal conflict and arrived to help the Draconis March intact and ready to fight.  Meh.

Tikonov defects once cut off and kisses major FC boot, forms 2 regiments and attacks the FWL with enough force to paralyze them.  This undercuts the difficulty of organizing and operating a military unit in BT, which is supposed to be a big thing.  TFR just does it, and effectively. 

St. Ives defects along with Candice Liao, transforming her from flipant hedonist to star crossed lover and national mother figure.  This is less about Justin Allard or St. Ives as so much Candice's 180.

So basically, all that info you absorbed and liked in the HLSB, don't get attached.  Maybe i'm guilty of liking the original housebook too much.  It's just all sloppy and rushed.  I don't care that there are 2 atlases and a trilogy behind them, the events of the 4th Succession War still come off as forced.  Fiat might imply a certain amount of venom, so let me say, I dislike the events of the 4th SW because they feel sloppy, rushed, and with the atlases, rationalized after the fact.  That's all  :)
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Banzai

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Re: Everytime I hear someone complaining about "author fiat"...
« Reply #75 on: 05 August 2013, 16:14:12 »

St. Ives defects along with Candice Liao, transforming her from flipant hedonist to star crossed lover and national mother figure.  This is less about Justin Allard or St. Ives as so much Candice's 180.

I see her less as you describe her (well, other than "star crossed" means exactly the opposite of how people use it, but that is the TA geek/pedantic, so ignore me there,)  and more as a realist.  The writing was on the wall, and it wasn't going to go well for the CapCon.  Defecting gave her an ability to maintain her holding's identity in exchange for forming a buffer state. 

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Re: Everytime I hear someone complaining about "author fiat"...
« Reply #76 on: 05 August 2013, 16:52:54 »
Oh, it's author fiat...and here I thought the FedCom Civil War started over Kat's envy of Arthur's new sports car. :P
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Re: Everytime I hear someone complaining about "author fiat"...
« Reply #77 on: 05 August 2013, 17:21:21 »
What they're making all the author's drive Fiats now?!?! ??? ???

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Re: Everytime I hear someone complaining about "author fiat"...
« Reply #78 on: 05 August 2013, 17:37:12 »
I can only blame Stackpole so much.

Actually, blaming Stackpole for pretty much everything works really well for me.
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Re: Everytime I hear someone complaining about "author fiat"...
« Reply #79 on: 06 August 2013, 05:58:34 »
Is Fiat still around in the 32nd century?  Have they made anything?  Maybe they're helping rearm the Republic inside the fortress
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Re: Everytime I hear someone complaining about "author fiat"...
« Reply #80 on: 06 August 2013, 08:12:51 »
Is Fiat still around in the 32nd century?  Have they made anything?  Maybe they're helping rearm the Republic inside the fortress

They don't build fusion engines. Not sure what Fiat or Mazda would be up to in the future.
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Re: Everytime I hear someone complaining about "author fiat"...
« Reply #81 on: 06 August 2013, 08:23:33 »
Mazda would still be trying to get the Wankle engine to work.

Fiat would side with the Blakists.  Who else but the Manei Domini would be able to control such tiny cars?
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Re: Everytime I hear someone complaining about "author fiat"...
« Reply #82 on: 06 August 2013, 09:07:07 »
And Victor, stymied often in his quest to be the Alpha, was likely rather miffed that he had to settle for a Alfa Romeo.  And only after a dropship full of Stackpolian internal grumbling  O0
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Re: Everytime I hear someone complaining about "author fiat"...
« Reply #83 on: 06 August 2013, 09:48:14 »
Davout73 pretty much summed it up about the DCMS/Dragoons front. Things would have turned out much differently if Takashi hadn't had such a narrow focus on them. The Wolf's at that point were a good size army and while they did hold the Dragon at bay, they got seriously mauled in the process.

As for the Highlanders, well, for all their vaunted reputation they've always seemed pretty unreliable to me. RE: their set-in during the Jihad.

And didn't Tikonov break away because Ridzek wanted his own little fiefdom?

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Re: Everytime I hear someone complaining about "author fiat"...
« Reply #84 on: 06 August 2013, 10:05:40 »
Davout73 pretty much summed it up about the DCMS/Dragoons front. Things would have turned out much differently if Takashi hadn't had such a narrow focus on them. The Wolf's at that point were a good size army and while they did hold the Dragon at bay, they got seriously mauled in the process.

I understand what happened, and let me just say, the role of Wolf's Dragoons was largely overstated.  The LCAF inflicted the actual losses.  WD drew a disproportionate amount of attention which allowed the AFFS to operate with more attention paid to giving Max Liao a noogie.

Quote
As for the Highlanders, well, for all their vaunted reputation they've always seemed pretty unreliable to me. RE: their set-in during the Jihad.

Well, we knew the Highlanders were around in the Dark Age as a Republic unit, so they had to survive in some form.  Their close proximity to Terra makes it unlikely that an openly defiant Northwind would not get Blakist attention.  In other words, I think they have something of a pass simply because of the MWDA fluff, as sad as that is to say.  As for their unreliable nature, I dunno...  It has been detailed at length how self interested the Highlanders are.  But, prior to Hanse throwing independence at them they had gone the distance for the CapCon.

Quote
And didn't Tikonov break away because Ridzek wanted his own little fiefdom?

Sort of.  Tikonov was cut off by the AFFS attacks on the CapCon.  Ridzick requested aid for an attack that didn't come.  He eventually formed the Tikonov Free Republic as a means of keeping the area intact and him at the head.  But, prolly not for the same "altruistic" reasons St. Ives was handed over.  Ridzick was essentially beseiged and sided with the FedCom in a bid to stay at the top of the TFR's heirarchy.  I don't have a problem with that alone.  It is the idea that this just happened and turned out in the best possible way for the FedCom, in the same conflict at the Northwind defection and St. Ives surrender turned out in the best possible way that irks me.  The military victories over the CCAF are fine.  Those are explained at length and have prior establishment in the HLSB.  But, whatever.  Ancient history.  Davions getting their's now.
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Kitsune413

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Re: Everytime I hear someone complaining about "author fiat"...
« Reply #85 on: 06 August 2013, 11:56:55 »
I get the feeling that the Highlanders are only Fanatically loyal to Northwind.
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Re: Everytime I hear someone complaining about "author fiat"...
« Reply #86 on: 07 August 2013, 22:13:44 »
These days, every time I hear someone mention author fiat, I wonder if they sprang for the Abarth.
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Re: Everytime I hear someone complaining about "author fiat"...
« Reply #87 on: 08 August 2013, 03:06:57 »
I get the feeling that the Highlanders are only Fanatically loyal to Northwind.

Ok, nkw we're talking about Toyota too?
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Re: Everytime I hear someone complaining about "author fiat"...
« Reply #88 on: 08 August 2013, 09:56:02 »
I get the feeling that the Highlanders are only Fanatically loyal to Northwind.

The Highlanders kept the legacy of the SLDF alive with the secret Black Watch group and reforming it after the 2nd Star League formed.  But, whether or not that is a silly plot device or not is up to you.
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Re: Everytime I hear someone complaining about "author fiat"...
« Reply #89 on: 08 August 2013, 10:37:22 »
The Highlanders kept the legacy of the SLDF alive with the secret Black Watch group and reforming it after the 2nd Star League formed.  But, whether or not that is a silly plot device or not is up to you.

Considering how the reformed Black Watch performed...I'm not sure that's really a point in their favor...

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