Author Topic: Cold Wars 2015: CSV vs Society  (Read 4313 times)

Paul

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Cold Wars 2015: CSV vs Society
« on: 11 March 2015, 17:27:17 »
[Edit: all done now and looking forward to commentary!]

Saturday March 7, from 10 till about 4pm, a Cluster of Viper Fusiliers tried to root out a Society cell on Tamaron. It was an interesting afternoon! I think most players had fun, or at least claimed they did. Close enough? :)
In attendance were Cubby (CSV lead) and Speck, who tends to run lead on all BT events at Cold Wars; I'm but a minion. If other players have accounts here, I'm not aware; feel free to chime in.


Initially, it looked like we'd have but 2 players: Cubby and Ed/Gimpy, so we split them up. I assisted Ed on the Society side, Mark/Speck helped Aaron/Cubby on the Steel Viper side. The pictures marked with a C are his.
As the day progressed, we got several additional players, which eventually exceeded what made sense to have: with a little hindsight, I should've stopped adding players once we hit 3 per side. The extra players (several of whom were rookies) added chaos, which slowed things down a tad.
Another goof I made (I made several) was to drop relatively uninteresting units on one of the add-on players on the Society side. That impacted his degree of activity and fun. My apologies.

Initial setup had a heavily dug-in Society position, which included 6 turrets; 3 facing outward, 3 facing inward, all with a 360 turret capability. Each turret came with two Clan RAC5s, 120 armor, 50 CF and a 6 gunner. Yep. 6. Also included in each was a NOVA CEWS that could be used by more mobile units or other turrets to link in.
You can see from the picture that the first turn started with the Vipers well in shooting range, while the Society was still a little spread out: this was a simplification to eliminate a few "dead" turns as they walk in range.

The Vipers, equipped with an assault Trinary and a lighter Supernova trinary (75 APGauss Elementals) opted to assault one of the sides with their full force. This caused the defenders of the other gate to move forward in an attempted flanking maneuver, while the in-base reserves moved to assist the 'right-side' gate defenders: a Sept of ProtoMechs supported by an Osteon.

As you can see in the C1 picture, those ProtoMechs are all hidden behind a ridge that the engineers of the Society had placed at each entrance. Also featured is a moat that filled the second the Clans showed up, while bridges collapsed underwater. Those lacking JumpJets would have to push through the hard way. You may also notice that the Sprites and Minotaurs (The LRM12 version) are getting ready to crest the ridge at an opportune time, using their full (5) jump range.

At this stage, things are looking a little grim for the Society. While they have two Septs worth of 'Mechs and a couple of vehicles available, their pilot quality is much weaker (average 4/5) than the Steel Vipers, who average out to 1/2. (There are several 2/3 and a few 3/4 pilots among them, but all the Elementals are 1 skilled)
« Last Edit: 11 March 2015, 18:00:42 by Paul »
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Paul

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Re: Cold Wars 2015: CSV vs Society
« Reply #1 on: 11 March 2015, 17:45:46 »
We're about 3 turns in now. The Clans have been doing a decent job concentrating their very accurate weapons fire, through the Society ProtoMechs supported by several 'Mechs are doing a decent job returning in kind. A Timber Wolf Z is ripped in half, but keeps fighting in on somehow. A Viper Cauldron Born is savaged, but the modifiers have still been fairly high up to this point.
The Supernova Trinary is lining up to make their deliveries.

Then suddenly, a 'Mech crumbles to the ground midstride, as if someone shut the power down to the myomers. Then another, a third, fourth. Elementals begin dropping off their assigned rides, ragdolling to the ground, digging deep trenches as their rides haven't shed their speed.
All in all, twelve 'MechWarriors and 30 Elementals just die Swiftly. Suddenly. Simultaneously.

The players are reminded that Society had to rely on DNA-tailored viruses collectively referred to as the Trueborn Cure. While some initial research was shared among all of the Society's many cells, each was left to their own devices to weaponize and customize them as they saw fit. This particular disease causes a rapid coagulation of all the victim's blood, but only if the Warrior in question was descendent from the Stoklas or Zalman blood lines. Every Clan Mech and Elemental Point had a Bloodname name written on them, and if the name matched, it died. Instantly. Irrevocably.
The society had hoped that this would have kicked in before the assault even started, deterring it altogether, but the Vipers moved faster than they expected.
(I used 5 names per Star, safeguarded 1 name, and rolled randomly for 2 names among the remaining 4; as such exactly 40% of their number was wiped out. Now, even in the Viper Fusiliers, not everyone has a Bloodname, in which case you're fluffed to be of that line. Likewise, more than just 5 names would be present in a Cluster, and Elemental Points are not likely to all be of the same line: that's just something I did to simplify)

The end consequence: suddenly the battle is much more balanced...! the Vipers needed to regroup, and either push through regardless, or redeploy...

Also visible: the ProtoMechs jumped down their ridge to try to disrupt the approaching Clan force. Between the casualties that occurred (Including the Cauldron Born they'd worked so hard on), and the speed of the Mech behind their line, this tactic wasn't as effective as it might have been. Of course, they'd have to sacrifice their defensive movement modifier if they wanted to maintain position...
You'll also note the reserve Mechs lining up behind the main central spire, while the vehicles trundle over. There's 2 Athena's there, and they'd not get to shoot until the last turn... With some hindsight, they likely should have started their existence on the top of the central spire. (Don't worry, I've made far worse mistakes than that)

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Paul

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Re: Cold Wars 2015: CSV vs Society
« Reply #2 on: 11 March 2015, 18:00:10 »
Last set of pictures!
The Vipers recovered well from their rude surprise, and their firepower and skills were beginning to have their toll.
The Roc Trey popping up for a full salvo of MPLs on a single target while thre nearby 'Mechs rained down as much firepower and magpulse as they could were not able to deter the Vipers. Sure, the occasional assault 'Mech fell over, or was slowed to a crawl, but there were just too many of them to stop. Even Sprites die (despite one surviving a kick to its torso by a Behemoth) and while the Minotaurs were permitted to unleash their LRMs on the back of assault Mechs (getting rather lucky with their critical damage to boot), the Vipers pushed forward.
The turrets were surprisingly successful, but then, often could aim for targets in short range and without any movement modifiers. Still, none of this was enough.

I initially declared it a Viper victory, but additional review revealed that matters were not quite as desperate as I thought. I'm still inclined to presuming an advantage for the Vipers, but I would agree that when we knocked off (had to make room for the next event), the issue was definitely not decided.

Some other amusing items I noticed:
* Two Cephali tried to flank wide, and were promptly greeted by Fire Moths from the SuperNova. Turns out that a Cephalus is less scary when you can keep up with it, you're in short range, and your skills are awesome. Eventually they broke free, but they had a harder time swarming in to the main formation for targeting assistance.
(Also note: the D4s and D12s were used to indicate how many of the Cephalus' systems were on: 1 or 2 systems, or no die = both systems off. Not using a D6 for that sets it apart)

* The Clanners never touched water; always jumping over or bypassing it. This made me sad. I was hoping for Rocs to be in the water to shoot at the feet while they spent some time submerged....

* I made an error exposing the Septicemia Z to too much incoming firepower. I was content with having it take a bit of a beating, since the HPG works even if you're prone. And I would've been fine too, except for that GR that hit the head...
Obviously, a big part of the defense would've been to inflict a +4 to-hit penalty on Viper Mechs for 6 turns.
In my defense (there is no defense) even with the towers spotting, I never had decent indirect fire shots, in part due to running and having a 6 gunnery... ;)

* The Septicemia C was about to get real busy...

* In good tradition, the last turn was spent in a splurgefest of violence, where everyone alphastriked as much as they could. This led to a Warhawk Prime reaching 26 heat... and not popping off its ammo! It did shut down though.


It was good fun! If you were there, feel free to add or correct.
If you werent there, feel free to ask!
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Dragon Cat

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Re: Cold Wars 2015: CSV vs Society
« Reply #3 on: 11 March 2015, 18:07:54 »
very cool
My three main Alternate Timeline with Thanks fan-fiction threads are in the links below. I'm always open to suggestions or additions to be incorporated so if you feel you wish to add something feel free. There's non-canon units, equipment, people, events, erm... Solar Systems spread throughout so please enjoy

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,20515.0.html - Part 1

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,52013.0.html - Part 2

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,79196.0.html - Part 3

Ghostbear_Gurdel

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Re: Cold Wars 2015: CSV vs Society
« Reply #4 on: 11 March 2015, 18:32:41 »
That looks like a really cool event!
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SCC

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Re: Cold Wars 2015: CSV vs Society
« Reply #5 on: 11 March 2015, 18:42:16 »
Did the Society have any infantry? 'Cause that would make taking out the pilots of those 'Mechs MUCH more interesting

Paul

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Re: Cold Wars 2015: CSV vs Society
« Reply #6 on: 11 March 2015, 18:47:42 »
Did the Society have any infantry?

None.

Quote
'Cause that would make taking out the pilots of those 'Mechs MUCH more interesting

Nah. Not like the average infantry unit could just walk over and get in, then pilot the deceased's 'Mech within the timeframe of the game. Presuming there's even a MechWarrior among them.
(Even if there was, he'd have to suck harder than the 6g/5p guy running the Cephalus Prime, and the 6/7 guy running the Septicemia Z)
The Clans had a decent chunk of anti-infantry though, even if the AP Gauss Crossbow happened to be piloted by a Zalman spawn.

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GreekFire

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Re: Cold Wars 2015: CSV vs Society
« Reply #7 on: 11 March 2015, 20:02:37 »
Ah man, sucks about the Septicemia Z but those kinds of things happen.

Looked like a really awesome game though, I hope that I'll get the chance to play something like that one day.
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Re: Cold Wars 2015: CSV vs Society
« Reply #8 on: 11 March 2015, 20:28:12 »
It was a fun event, was odd actually playing at the show. Normally I am running an event or helping brother with Grinder. Glad to see the Society mechs get used again, been to long since the last game with them.

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Re: Cold Wars 2015: CSV vs Society
« Reply #9 on: 11 March 2015, 20:56:27 »
Awesome after action, cool game!

The Septicemia Z is a mech that has to be priority 1 in any large scale game.  It can just cause too much havoc. 

Did you have anything planned for the Vipers if the virus kill of was too powerful?  Some sort of berserker rage or initiative bonus?  The Vipers strike me as a clan where the other warriors on the field would have some inclination of what happened fairly quickly, and would respond with extreme prejudice.

This does double back to my point in the Spritethread... all those new toys and dirty tricks and that elite assault cluster hammers them.  Even with the viral attack.  The Viper mechs just hit entirely too much with their gunnery skills.  It's one thing when a 3/4 clanner in a pulse boat is on the field.  But you have 1/2 pilots in assault mechs... suddenly even a Scylla is a murder machine, and you had a Warhawk, with an elite pilot?  Dude should hitting with 2 PPC's on average every turn.  Stuff just flat dies against those kind of odds. 



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Paul

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Re: Cold Wars 2015: CSV vs Society
« Reply #10 on: 11 March 2015, 21:44:51 »
The Septicemia Z is a mech that has to be priority 1 in any large scale game.  It can just cause too much havoc. 

Yeah, and even though it was a fluke shot that killed it (the GR could've literally hit any other location), I shouldn't even have permitted that. I should've just gone prone, or stayed behind the central spire.



Quote
Did you have anything planned for the Vipers if the virus kill of was too powerful?  Some sort of berserker rage or initiative bonus?  The Vipers strike me as a clan where the other warriors on the field would have some inclination of what happened fairly quickly, and would respond with extreme prejudice.

Well, I didn't give them a penalty for losing coherence that quickly. And if I effort to balance overshot its mark, I had the thrid Trinary on stand by as reinforcements.
The Society had reinforcements as well; I tend to have something available in case some weird activity (or blatant errors on my part during prep) cause one side to crumble too quickly. I mean, if you have a 10-4 game, and it's a done deal around noon, things become a drag...


Quote
This does double back to my point in the Spritethread... all those new toys and dirty tricks and that elite assault cluster hammers them.  Even with the viral attack.  The Viper mechs just hit entirely too much with their gunnery skills.  It's one thing when a 3/4 clanner in a pulse boat is on the field.  But you have 1/2 pilots in assault mechs... suddenly even a Scylla is a murder machine, and you had a Warhawk, with an elite pilot?  Dude should hitting with 2 PPC's on average every turn.  Stuff just flat dies against those kind of odds.

Actually, I was about to call in reinforcements for the Clan side, because the defense was solid enough and taking losses where they could afford to take losses (one of the mistakes I made). It wasn't bad enough to warrant reinforcements. Then they rallied during the last turn, providing me with the overall viewpoint that they had a slight edge, though the Society was still very much in the fight.
ANother mistake I made: I played it coy with the armor and CF of the turrets. So they put 40 damage on each, but never pursued total destruction. Admittedly I got lucky (only jammed 2 guns, got very decent returns when I did connect), but I do think that the Clans should've dropped the nearest 2 turrets in turn 1. A mistake that's not really their fault (since they couldn't know whether it'd take 200 damage or 500 damage to crack one), and it's balanced by the error to not deploy the 2 Athena's on the spire, I reckon.

All in all, I think I managed to balance things fairly well. Things looked even once the disease kicked in.

Paul
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Paul

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Re: Cold Wars 2015: CSV vs Society
« Reply #11 on: 11 March 2015, 21:49:19 »
Forgot to add: probably the sickest one wasn't the 1/2 Warhawk or the Executioner Prime with the sole 0/1 pilot (not sure if it was his GR or his 1/2 buddy that got the Septi Z), but the 1/2 Viper/Black Python 1. Yep. Large Pulse lasers and a targ-comp, and a base 1 to hit. I don't mind feeding munchkins a nice nutritious meal.

Course, the Warhawk was in the 'safe' pile, the Black Python was not...

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Paul

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Re: Cold Wars 2015: CSV vs Society
« Reply #12 on: 11 March 2015, 21:55:43 »
OK, sorry, but I just remembered this also: during another event at the same Con, my Gunsmith was charged from behind by the Celerity with the spike that can do up to 40MP. It "only" managed a 35 hex charge, which was still plenty to *bamf* in to my Mech, such that nothing remained; almost like a spawn-kill.
He also charge-rammed someone off a cliff, but got a lucky (it was sturdier) CT-kill before the fall could happen.
My own charging with the 40 MP Fireball was less spectacular: landed a charge 2 times, but failed to kill!

Anyway, those wee Mechs were helped by the event rules, that assigns skills based on the BV of the unit, so that Celerity was running 0/0s. With pilot differential, it was almost like a Precision Ammo missile. The Fireball got a 0/1, much of the field was in the 2-3 range in the Piloting department...

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Re: Cold Wars 2015: CSV vs Society
« Reply #13 on: 11 March 2015, 22:32:28 »
And I would've been fine too, except for that GR that hit the head...

You're welcome.

Mark/Speck helped Aaron/Cubby on the Steel Viper side.

Mark helped me a LOT. Especially when we doubled the number of people on our team--which is fine, it's the GM's call and I'm always in favor of teaching new people to play, but that was a lot of teaching that needed doing.

The Vipers, equipped with an assault Trinary and a lighter Supernova trinary (75 APGauss Elementals) opted to assault one of the sides with their full force.

Really no other choice--especially once the Society dropped their at-will placement terrain and fortifications directly behind both sets of water hexes, as shown in the pictures. Assaulting an entrenched, prepared enemy when you have the benefit of superior numbers is no time to get clever. I did consider actually doing a Viper's Fangs battle plan (FM:WC p. 140)--how often do you have TWO trinaries to play with??--but the Society's tech made me too nervous. It seemed like a Scott Evil "Why don't you just shoot him?" moment.

Also visible: the ProtoMechs jumped down their ridge to try to disrupt the approaching Clan force. Between the casualties that occurred (Including the Cauldron Born they'd worked so hard on), and the speed of the Mech behind their line, this tactic wasn't as effective as it might have been.

It was plenty effective, I thought--it completely blunted our momentum and turned aside our lighter elements, which played a big part in getting them wiped out. I have a whole new respect for Protos after this game.

The Clans had a decent chunk of anti-infantry though, even if the AP Gauss Crossbow happened to be piloted by a Zalman spawn.

That...made me sad. The Crossbow was piloted by one of the new players, and it took me a full turn to get around to flipping through his sheets and realize it was the wacky E variant with 16 (count 'em!) AP Gauss Rifles.

Kid: "That's good?"
Me: "You're gonna be a hero in about a turn when those Protos get close enough."
(Paul rolls some dice)
Paul: "Okay, look on your sheets, anyone with a pilot name Zalman...is dead!"
Me: (blink...blink) "Let me see that Crossbow record sheet again real fast? ...Yeah. Great." (crumplecrumplecrumple)

The Society DNA virus was bananas. So much stuff died so quickly that it took us an entire turn to shake out which models and record sheets weren't there anymore.

Paul's assessment feels correct--driving home from the game, I also started to think the final accounting was closer than it seemed at first. On the last two turns, we managed to headcap three 'Mechs, two of them relatively fresh, and one of which was the SeptiHPGmia. If they'd stuck around or, lord help us, that Z had fired off its microwave oven in our faces, it would have been even less pretty.

On the other hand, running an assault star I got to set a personal record for damage taken in a turn. I wish I'd kept a closer accounting, but it had to have been 500-ish points across four 'Mechs.

All in all, a very fun, crazy game. Thanks to Paul for running it and all who played in it!
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Re: Cold Wars 2015: CSV vs Society
« Reply #14 on: 12 March 2015, 00:22:41 »
Paul's assessment feels correct--driving home from the game, I also started to think the final accounting was closer than it seemed at first. On the last two turns, we managed to headcap three 'Mechs, two of them relatively fresh, and one of which was the SeptiHPGmia. If they'd stuck around or, lord help us, that Z had fired off its microwave oven in our faces, it would have been even less pretty.

Just curious, has anyone here used the Z to great effect?  I know a couple years ago we faced off against a Z at Historicon and our team made certain to climb the cliff face to get to and eradicate the thing before it shot.

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Re: Cold Wars 2015: CSV vs Society
« Reply #15 on: 12 March 2015, 06:47:00 »
Just curious, has anyone here used the Z to great effect?  I know a couple years ago we faced off against a Z at Historicon and our team made certain to climb the cliff face to get to and eradicate the thing before it shot.

Cool, you were in that game too? Hello again!

I used it in a rather wacky grinder a couple of years ago. (Wacky since the random draw folders included such things as satellites and boats; I also found the latter)
It did actually discharge, getting 3 'Mechs (we had some 12 total in the grinder, I think). As one might surmise, +4 penalties suck,and 6 turns are a long time.

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Re: Cold Wars 2015: CSV vs Society
« Reply #16 on: 12 March 2015, 17:10:00 »
None.

Nah. Not like the average infantry unit could just walk over and get in, then pilot the deceased's 'Mech within the timeframe of the game. Presuming there's even a MechWarrior among them.
(Even if there was, he'd have to suck harder than the 6g/5p guy running the Cephalus Prime, and the 6/7 guy running the Septicemia Z)
The Clans had a decent chunk of anti-infantry though, even if the AP Gauss Crossbow happened to be piloted by a Zalman spawn.

Paul
If you give the infantry 'Mech Piloting skills they can (Now that I think about it, that's something that I can see happening in Clan space, and the Society, oh yeah)

Paul

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Re: Cold Wars 2015: CSV vs Society
« Reply #17 on: 12 March 2015, 18:10:30 »
If you give the infantry 'Mech Piloting skills they can (Now that I think about it, that's something that I can see happening in Clan space, and the Society, oh yeah)

Like I said: if they had decent MWs, they'd be piloting 'Mechs. And since I had a 6/5 and 6/7 guy running around, whoever is running around in an infantry unit is even worse, somehow. And that'd be pretty much true for 100% of the Society cells.
So, your idea won't fly.
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