Author Topic: Are their any melee mechs with heavy lasers?  (Read 2623 times)

Redlord320

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 19
Are their any melee mechs with heavy lasers?
« on: 06 July 2020, 19:05:50 »
Heavy lasers seem like a great aid in melee battles.

Retry

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1433
Re: Are their any melee mechs with heavy lasers?
« Reply #1 on: 06 July 2020, 20:53:05 »
Heavy lasers are Clan Tech.  Clanners don't do a whole lot of melee.  So the answer is presumably "no".

Plus, since we're talking Clan tech, the Clanners also have access to the ol' fashioned ER Small Laser.  Compared to the Heavy Small, the ER Small loses out on raw damage, "only" 5 points compared to 6... but since the ER Small is also longer ranged and more accurate at all ranges, it'll usually end up doing more damage anyways.  Yes, even at point-blank range.

Compared to the other Heavies (medium and large), at melee range, the ER Small matches the damage-per-ton of the Medium Heavy and exceeds that of the Large Heavy, and runs far cooler than either of them.  If melee range effectiveness is all that you're looking for, the larger Heavies don't hold up.  (And no serious person uses them for long range, either)

That and the costs of them, you're really only using Heavy Lasers if you're gaming the BV system.  Even then, your mileage may vary; BT's weapon BV calculation tends to over-value less accurate weapons such as the Heavy Laser and MRM.

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1756
Re: Are their any melee mechs with heavy lasers?
« Reply #2 on: 07 July 2020, 00:24:48 »
A(n Improved) Heavy Medium Laser is a good replacement of two ER Small Lasers. I see no value on Heavy Small Laser, however, unless it is an Inner Sphere tech.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25631
  • It's just my goth phase
Re: Are their any melee mechs with heavy lasers?
« Reply #3 on: 08 July 2020, 12:31:36 »
While I don't believe that any of the canon Clan mechs that use melee weapons mix them with heavy or improved heavy lasers, Tundra Galaxy of Clan Ghost Bear has a special ability that allows mechs in the galaxy to be customized with melee weapons, following normal construction rules.  So you could take a mech that already has a few heavy lasers on it, remove some other stuff, and mount a hatchet or sword.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1756
Re: Are their any melee mechs with heavy lasers?
« Reply #4 on: 08 July 2020, 13:09:53 »
Generally, while Clans do have the idea of close ranged shot, they avoid melee attacks against mechs due to their long tradition for unknown origin(note that there is no taboo for melee attacks against non-mech targets, such as tank and infantry, so even the most firm adherent of such customs are openly kicks tanks and infantries with their mech). So you can't found any Clans melee mechs. There are some melee protomechs but protomech is not a battlemech.

The only exception is Republic of the Sphere, that is an Inner Sphere nation but also have the citizen origin to Clans when the republic's foundation.


And, more importantly, all you need for the melee mech are Triple-Strength Myomer and two functional hands. But most mechs are lacks a hand, and vast majority of Clans mechs are lacks a hand. No one I am aware are have Triple-Strength Myomer either. You better have a deal with Sea Fox merchants to buy some heavy lasers, then put it to your supposed melee mech.

The most prestigious item on the melee attack is Talons, which is almost the only meaningful melee weapon except for basic kick and punch attacks, but I doubt that it would be easy to get.
« Last Edit: 08 July 2020, 13:22:34 by PuppyLikesLaserPointers »

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28960
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Are their any melee mechs with heavy lasers?
« Reply #5 on: 08 July 2020, 13:57:11 »
The Dark Ages see a increase in the Clans committing to the melee attacks- heck the Karhu in the Jihad has a config with a retractable blade IIRC.  The Falcons really get into it, tied to their increase in totem mechs they add in talons.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Kit deSummersville

  • Precentor of Lies
  • Freelance Writer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10397
  • The epicness continues!
    • Insights and Complaints on Twitter
Re: Are their any melee mechs with heavy lasers?
« Reply #6 on: 08 July 2020, 15:03:22 »
The Summoner Q has a heavy Medium and a Heavy Small.
Looking for an official answer? Check the Catalyst Interaction Forums.

Freelancer for hire, not an official CGL or IMR representative.

Everyone else's job is easy, so tell them how to do it, everyone loves that!

Millard Fillmore's favorite BattleTech writer.

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1756
Re: Are their any melee mechs with heavy lasers?
« Reply #7 on: 08 July 2020, 16:11:53 »
The Dark Ages see a increase in the Clans committing to the melee attacks- heck the Karhu in the Jihad has a config with a retractable blade IIRC.  The Falcons really get into it, tied to their increase in totem mechs they add in talons.

Thanks. I am always baffled that, Clans, especially the 'traditionalist' Jade Falcons are created a melee weapon. It was changed, then.

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28960
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Are their any melee mechs with heavy lasers?
« Reply #8 on: 08 July 2020, 16:21:31 »
I play a Warden Wolf . . . I do not commit melee against mechs- I will kick a tank I am standing on or punt Elementals . . . and I will not take jump jets when I can go faster or take more weapons.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

ANS Kamas P81

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13208
Re: Are their any melee mechs with heavy lasers?
« Reply #9 on: 08 July 2020, 19:23:52 »
I suppose it's acceptable for dezgra opponents and it would show the level of contempt the Falcons have for their opponents by using such tactics against them. 
Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen,
Tod und Verzweiflung flammet um mich her!
Fühlt nicht durch dich Jadefalke Todesschmerzen,
So bist du meine Tochter nimmermehr!

Paul

  • dies a lot at the Solaris Melee Challenge!
  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 15537
Re: Are their any melee mechs with heavy lasers?
« Reply #10 on: 08 July 2020, 23:38:31 »
Heavy lasers definitely compliment a mech thats supposed to actively engage in melee. While stuff like TSM, clawe, talons, etc are rather optimized for that, it is worth noting that most any fast heavy and assauly Mech can be a very competent melee Mech. An Executioner thats trying to get a kick or charge attack every turn is one hell of a problem. The Burrock likewise is a pretty good example.
The solution is just ignore Paul.

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28960
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Are their any melee mechs with heavy lasers?
« Reply #11 on: 09 July 2020, 09:38:41 »
Heavy lasers definitely compliment a mech thats supposed to actively engage in melee. While stuff like TSM, clawe, talons, etc are rather optimized for that, it is worth noting that most any fast heavy and assauly Mech can be a very competent melee Mech. An Executioner thats trying to get a kick or charge attack every turn is one hell of a problem. The Burrock likewise is a pretty good example.

Which is why the Executioner that pods a Supercharger is just brutal for how far that upper end assault mech can get across the map for a kick.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

grimlock1

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2087
Re: Are their any melee mechs with heavy lasers?
« Reply #12 on: 10 July 2020, 08:10:29 »
Heavy lasers might be useful in a TSM build.  Jade Hawks and Skinwalkers both use TSM.  The trick I've found with melee TSM builds is to have something like a pair of ER smalls and regular small, or in Clan inventory, ER Micro/Micro pulse.  That gives you the ability to dial your heat up by 0-5 points, pretty much at will. Actually Heavy smalls can do this more efficiently.  A Heavy Small and a pair of ER micros gives you the same range, but saves a half ton....  On the other hand, a flamer is the same .5 tons, and 3 heat.  But remember to follow the rules for proper flamer placement.  Head mounted for fire breathing monstrosity, or center torso-rear for weaponized guacamole farts. :-)
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.  ---  Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28960
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Are their any melee mechs with heavy lasers?
« Reply #13 on: 10 July 2020, 09:25:02 »
Heavy lasers might be useful in a TSM build.  Jade Hawks and Skinwalkers both use TSM.

Is it the IS built Jade Hawk or the Falcon one?
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

grimlock1

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2087
Re: Are their any melee mechs with heavy lasers?
« Reply #14 on: 10 July 2020, 09:44:26 »
Is it the IS built Jade Hawk or the Falcon one?
It's the IS version.  The Falcon version doesn't have TSM.  My bad.
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.  ---  Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

Crow

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 387
  • Scientist-General
Re: Are their any melee mechs with heavy lasers?
« Reply #15 on: 16 July 2020, 03:17:51 »
The Osteon B has a Large Vibroblade and two improved Heavy Lasers, so that's as close as your going to get with canon designs.
YOU DARE REFUSE MY BOOF?

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1756
Re: Are their any melee mechs with heavy lasers?
« Reply #16 on: 16 July 2020, 18:59:33 »
Worth noting that Osteon's punch and kick are stronger than heavy vibroblade. Heavy vibroblade seems only useful for the mechs with 35 tons or less, but such mechs are almost impossible to wield it.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25631
  • It's just my goth phase
Re: Are their any melee mechs with heavy lasers?
« Reply #17 on: 16 July 2020, 20:40:13 »
The Osteon's kick deals more damage (but only by 3 points), but its punch does not.  And the Vibroblade is more accurate than a punch.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

mbear

  • Stood Far Back When The Gravitas Was Handed Out
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4497
    • Tower of Jade
Re: Are their any melee mechs with heavy lasers?
« Reply #18 on: 21 July 2020, 06:46:49 »
I think you'd be more likely to see melee 'Mechs in units that were formed from Inner Sphere units. IIRC there's a Rasalhague unit that specializes in melee attacks, to the point of removing other weapons to install hatchets and swords. For them, using heavy lasers seems like an obvious upgrade to me too.
Be the Loremaster:

Battletech transport rules take a very feline approach to moving troops in a combat zone: If they fits, they ships.

You bought the box set and are ready to expand your BT experience. Now what? (Thanks Sartis!)

grimlock1

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2087
Re: Are their any melee mechs with heavy lasers?
« Reply #19 on: 21 July 2020, 08:48:04 »
Worth noting that Osteon's punch and kick are stronger than heavy vibroblade. Heavy vibroblade seems only useful for the mechs with 35 tons or less, but such mechs are almost impossible to wield it.
The small vibro blade was awesome for heavies and assaults... until some jerk pointed out the exploit and it was errata'd.
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.  ---  Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

Kit deSummersville

  • Precentor of Lies
  • Freelance Writer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10397
  • The epicness continues!
    • Insights and Complaints on Twitter
Re: Are their any melee mechs with heavy lasers?
« Reply #20 on: 23 July 2020, 07:43:58 »
The small vibro blade was awesome for heavies and assaults... until some jerk pointed out the exploit and it was errata'd.

Sorry/Not Sorry.
Looking for an official answer? Check the Catalyst Interaction Forums.

Freelancer for hire, not an official CGL or IMR representative.

Everyone else's job is easy, so tell them how to do it, everyone loves that!

Millard Fillmore's favorite BattleTech writer.

grimlock1

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2087
Re: Are their any melee mechs with heavy lasers?
« Reply #21 on: 23 July 2020, 19:36:25 »
Sorry/Not Sorry.

I was the one who pointed it out
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.  ---  Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

 

Register