Alternative Melee Weapon System

[Adastra]

Now in Battletech, melee weapons are in an odd place. They're really fun, and everyone loves to see some giant robots duke it out at point blank. However, the tonnage requirements often result in melee weapons that aren't really worth it. So I thought that maybe a different system might help with that.

Instead of melee weapons being built into the structure of the mech, why not treat them as the external equipment that they are? They could be balanced against punches and kicks, keeping their power level fairly low while allowing a person to customize their melee style. It also makes hand actuators a little more important. On to the mechanics.

Melee weapons are externally carried, requiring two working hand actuators to function. Most of these weapons can be used in one hand, but for rules simplicity such attacks should be treated as regular punches. Note that these options do not replace punches and kicks, merely provide an additional physical attack option. Weapons are divided into the same size categories as mechs, light, medium, heavy, and assault. A mech cannot use a weapon that is of a larger size than it. A mech can use a weapon of a smaller size, but is treated as the maximum weight for that size, for the purposes of damage. For example, if an Atlas (100 tons) were to pick up and use a medium-sized sword, it would deal damage as if it were a 55-ton mech, i.e. 6 damage. For now at least, I'm going to abstract melee weapons into three categories:

Short Weapons (knives, knuckle dusters, armblades, etc.) -1 bonus to hit. Damage=mech weight/15 (rounded down). Can make 3 attacks. Uses the punch table.

Long Weapons (swords, spears, whips, etc.) -2 bonus to hit. Damage=mech weight/10 (rounded up). One attack. Can use either the punch table or the kick table.

Heavy Weapons (maces, axes, hammers, etc.) +1 penalty to hit. Damage=mech weight/5. One attack. Uses the standard hit table rather than the punch table.

So short weapons are for crit seeking, long weapons are very accurate and have some choice in where they hit, and heavy weapons deliver big hits but less accurately and with more variance in hit location. These are extremely preliminary stats, and are subject to change.

Feedback is appreciated. Do you think you'd use these if allowed? Do you think that they completely obsolete normal melee attacks? Feel free to leave comments/criticisms below.

[idea weenie]

What happens when an Atlas picks up a heavy melee weapon sized for a Stinger?

Does the Atlas do 20 pts of damage with the weapon, or is it limited to the structural strength for the weapon which would make the weapon only do 4 pts of damage (which is the max a Stinger could do with the weapon)

[Adastra]

What happens when an Atlas picks up a heavy melee weapon sized for a Stinger?

Does the Atlas do 20 pts of damage with the weapon, or is it limited to the structural strength for the weapon which would make the weapon only do 4 pts of damage (which is the max a Stinger could do with the weapon)

I think I might go with a bit of both. Probably will divide it up by size category. A weapon can do up to the maximum damage for its size category, at which point being bigger grants no further benefit. Mechs cannot use melee weapons that are larger in size.

[Red Pins]

Hmm.

Have to think about this.

[TerrasFallen]

Possible solution for you. Give the weapon a weight. A mech without TSM can carry 10% of its weight in one arm with no real penalty. when calculating for the attack with this system use a cumulative effect based on the weapon weight, mech weight, and weapon type rounding to the nearest whole.

Ex: A 5 ton sword used by a 100 ton mech would be ((5+100)/10)Rnw=11 dmg, An 8 ton mace used by an 80 ton mech would be ((8+80)/5)Rnw=18 dmg

Potential variant, two handed for long and heavy. Requires 2 hand actuators and can be up to 20% the mech tonnage for a X% say 25 increase in damage.

Ex: A 5 ton sword used by a 25 ton mech would be (((5+25)/10)*1.25)Rnw)=4 dmg, A 20 ton sword used by a 100 ton mech would be (((20+100)/10)*1.25)Rnw)=15 dmg, A 15 ton mace used by a 75 ton mech would be (((15+75)/5)*1.25)Rnw)=23 dmg

Of course all of this would remove the ability for the mech to use range weapons in the arm carrying the melee weapon and two handing it should probably prevent anything not turret mounted from being used in the torsos.

[AdaC]

Just use existing rules but allow 1 weapon attack per hand (i.e., 2 melee weapon attacks for a typical biped 'mech) and punch locations. 2x 40-point hatchet hits with a 1 in 6 chance of hitting the head would make melee weapons reasonable vs ranged weapons.

[PuppyLikesLaserPointers]

I am always think about this. It is ridiculous to spend the tonnage AND arm slots for the melee weapon despite it is not attached to the mech at all. Some of them does, but most of them are not, and even for the attached ones it usually replaces or adds such as Claws and Lance so it does not makes any sense.

The most funny part on it is, your default punch and kick are much better physical weapon in the real games but it does not requires you any further tonnage or slots, so equip the physical weapon that is not Talons just penalize you. Although you do need for the hands, though, but didn't you have any of if you ever think about to use a physical weapon?

But since the idea on OP results simply the better physical attack, I think that it is not that good. Requires hand to be functional is a reason for give an advantage to them, but isn't it too much?

And short weapon with TSM is still devastating as much as punch does, for 90 tonner or higher can insta-kill a mech by 1/15 of tonnage with TSM activated. For 60 to 85 tonner, they can still try it by two punches. And 90 to 100 can roll 1/6 instant kill three times rather than two. It's 90 or heavier so you don't think that they are fast enough to actually make the physical attack so early, though.

Also, if you want to grouping the weapons by tonnage, then what about to make the weapon by each 5 tons? I suggest to:

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A handheld physical Weapon can be made to cause 1 to 40 damage. If a mech try to grab it, multiply the damage of the weapon by 5 and compare it with your mech's weight. If the result is...
-More than its weight, and up to two times of its weight, then your mech can only wield it while the mech have active TSM and two functional hand actuators, and also have to wield it two-handed. The damage of the weapon is reduced to /5 of the mech's weight, since TSM barely sustains its additional weight.
-More than a half, but not more than the same weight, then your mech can only wield it while the mech have two functional hand actuators, and also have to wield it two-handed. Else the mech have active TSM, the mech can attempt to wield it one handed, and if so the damage of the weapon is reduced to /10 of the mech's weight.
-More than a third, but not more than a half, then your mech can only wield it while the mech have at least a functional hand actuator. The mech can wield it by one hand.
-A third or lighter, then your mech can only wield it while the mech have at least a functional hand actuator. The mech can wield it by one hand, and is considered as a light weapon. The damage of the weapon is its own damage or /15 of the mech's tonnage, whichever higher, for it is barely better than its own punch.


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[Charistoph]

Instead of melee weapons being built into the structure of the mech, why not treat them as the external equipment that they are? They could be balanced against punches and kicks, keeping their power level fairly low while allowing a person to customize their melee style. It also makes hand actuators a little more important. On to the mechanics.

Melee weapons are externally carried, requiring two working hand actuators to function.

Basically what you are suggesting is new forms of Clubs to be provided with rules associated with them.  This much I can get behind.  It would make sense for a Shadowhawk or Atlas to be able to grab an lumbermech's axe and use it in a fight, or a tech has them pre-built to use in an assault.

I cannot get behind dropping the "internally" mounted weapons, as most have rules that get around requiring the 2 hand actuators, and at least one case literally has it integrated in to the arm (Nightsky from TRO: 3055).  This integration is what made the Hatchetman so unique (along with just being the first Trooper design in a century or two).

[Adastra]

Basically what you are suggesting is new forms of Clubs to be provided with rules associated with them.  This much I can get behind.  It would make sense for a Shadowhawk or Atlas to be able to grab an lumbermech's axe and use it in a fight, or a tech has them pre-built to use in an assault.

I cannot get behind dropping the "internally" mounted weapons, as most have rules that get around requiring the 2 hand actuators, and at least one case literally has it integrated in to the arm (Nightsky from TRO: 3055).  This integration is what made the Hatchetman so unique (along with just being the first Trooper design in a century or two).

Yeah, makes sense. No need to get rid of the old system, since there's plenty of iconic mechs that use it.