I asked myself about the Raider Mk.II: Why use a RAC in the first place? Why not use an AC/5 instead? And why not replace the Saw with some Rocket Launchers, Machine Guns and Heat Sinks? But this would've been too sensible, I guess.
More probably you miss all your MRMs and die on the first ambush.
Quick question. Does the MRMs allow the Raider to clear minefields? I'm kinda envisioning a Combat Engineer role for these.
More probably you miss all your MRMs and die on the first ambush.
This is a thing of beauty. Nothing else, but at least it's got that going for it. ;Dprobably because of heat issues.
Never heard of them before.
How come the RAC translates to no damage in AS?
The Raider is sort of like the Hetzer.
probably because of heat issues.
I think the Industrial TSM would be useful in lifting swag captured in a raid.
Obviously that means he WAS producing MRM racks
Correct, it's a BattleMech with an ICE engine, not an armed IndustrialMech.Makes me think it would be kind of OK if it were an industrial MOD but it is not so...
Correct, it's a BattleMech with an ICE engine, not an armed IndustrialMech.
And it has no heat sinks...? (yes, I know ICEs don't get free heat sinks)
cheers,
Gabe
Much of these designs came from the MWDA fluff which flat out states that it's a BattleMech with an ICE engine plus much of the other stats. There twernt too much salvaging possible after that point I suspect. :-\Background material should be a guide, not a chain. Hell, one could have said that calling it a real Battlemech was nothing but a calculated lie from Bannson to intimidate his enemies - "See, I can make 'Mechs just like the real nations! FEAR ME AND MY INDUSTRIAL MIGHT!" Not as though the actual clickytech stats made any difference between a real 'Mech and an IndustrialMech... aside from real 'Mechs being just plain better. I never had one of these, so I have no idea if the tabletop stats matched closer to a real 'Mech or a MOD.
As far as I'm aware it has exactly two (and yes, they're in addition to the engine). Single ones, at that. Basically one for walking and the other for running -- any token amount of actually cooling off will only happen if it walks or stands still while conscientiously not shooting at anyone. Can still use its dual saw like that, I suppose...
I remember this old joke about how the designer of the Urbie must've graduated from engineering school with a D average.
What about the designer of the Raider...?
I know, I'm being unfair. Bannson wanted BattleMechs, but clearly didn't have the ability to produce 'Mech-grade fusion engines, thanks to the Republic's policies.
cheers,
Gabe
Wow, it's like an actual canon BubbaMech...
The combination of MRMs and TSM does give you one small role in combat, bunker busting. Unload the MRMs on a building, then use the TSM to kick the weakened door in.
It was designed as a straight up battlemech but they were behind schedule on building the fusion engine for it. It was supposed to be a regular engine and not an ICE. They salvaged the frame by resorting to an ICE. Did it cripple it? Yep. Did they start with an ICE in mind? Nope. Is it worthless? 99% yes. But it is unique and looks fabulous. Just don't make me drive one.
You do know that when the fig comes out, I am going to have to get some, paint them up in semi-gloss black, with chrome, especially the pipes, and put mudflaps with chrome silhouettes of naked women on the back of the legs......etc. LOL
Nahuris
And truck nutz
I found the preview text from the old WizKids website.Good fluff for such a design.
File: Jacob‘s Ladder
Section: 77R42q
Security Level: Delta Green
Authorization: Jacob Karlson
This is a summary review of the Jacob‘s Ladder project.
On 7 April 3131, this office received an order, countersigned by Jacob Bannson, to begin an assessment of the feasibility of building a BattleMech. Due to the extreme security measures that this office felt necessary to implement during the feasibility assessment stage of the project, a full report didn‘t reach Mr. Bannson‘s hands until 23 October. On 2 November, Mr. Bannson met with me, along with those directly involved: Ben Keller, Denise Harlson, Jim Harding, Susan Lollar, and Kit Smithson. Following that meeting, Mr. Bannson‘s directive was to proceed with Jacob‘s Ladder – build a BattleMech.
Our current facility was simply beyond the scope of such a project, and so we were moved to a remote location. On 2 February 3132 at a newly constructed underground facility, the project started in earnest.
The next year and a half would see triumphs and spectacular failures in equal measure. Jim Harding, much to our anguish, perished in an explosion following our eighth unsuccessful attempt to balance the plasma field within a military-grade fusion reactor. (Like all of us, Jim had no family to speak of, so only we are left to remember the man and his accomplishments.)
By September 3133, it had become painfully obvious that our facility was simply not capable of producing a military-grade fusion reactor. Though all other aspects of the project had exceeded expectation on all levels, it became apparent that almost two years had been wasted in building a ‘Mech that would be able to house only an internal combustion engine.
Though I personally submitted numerous requests for a salvaged fusion reactor, the reply was always the same: Salvaged engines are used to replace damaged reactors on existing BattleMechs. Our task was to build a brand-new BattleMech from the ground up.
A task we have failed.
Nevertheless, what we have created is a BattleMech in every aspect, except it mounts an internal combustion engine (colloquially known as a ―lowtech ‘Mech‖). The Raider MkII should not be confused with a modified IndustrialMech: It has a standard internal structure, as opposed to the double-weight, reinforced structure of IndustrialMechs. In fact, our team has managed to perfect numerous systems that previously were considered prototypes, such as the jump pack and the light autocannon.
The attached videos graphically demonstrate that not only can the Raider hold its own against some light BattleMechs, but more importantly, it is also far superior to any modified IndustrialMech currently in use.
This, I believe, is still a measure of achievement, and the Raider (we have begun to move forward with full, though limited, production – this facility was never designed with mass production in mind) can and will support Bannson troops in the field. Nevertheless, in the end, my team failed to achieve our directive, and so I‘m tendering my resignation effective immediately.
{{{Intercepted message; video was corrupted beyond recovery>>> }}}
sounds to me that we really need a Design thread for this one, see what we can do to polish this excrement..
Honestly wish the fluff had followed the Jacob's Ladder report
The date is different
And what about the jump pack for the mech?
Someone should team this mech up with its big brother the Thunderbolt with the ICE that the Taurians made.
The what now? ICE T-Bolt?
And hey, while I'm here, thought I'd mention that ICE powered mechs don't generate heat from ground movement. So... maybe that helps a little?
Now I must go, my cultists require a fuel cell powered Raider Mk III.
I assume he's referring to the ICE thunderbolt that appeared in a fan TRO a bit back (though that was actually Canopean).
And hey, while I'm here, thought I'd mention that ICE powered mechs don't generate heat from ground movement. So... maybe that helps a little?ICE powered IndustrialMechs don't generate movement heat. BattleMechs on the other hand, I give you TacOps p. 308
Now I must go, my cultists require a fuel cell powered Raider Mk III.
• Non-fusion-powered BattleMechs generate heat in the same manner as BattleMechs (including heat for Walking and Running movement);
ICE-powered ‘Mechs must check for heat-induced explosions (see p. 160, TW).
ICE powered IndustrialMechs don't generate movement heat. BattleMechs on the other hand, I give you TacOps p. 308
Oh, wow, that both sucks and makes no sense.
Has anyone tried swapping out the engine?
I tried swapping it for a fusion engine last night, and ended up with something like twelve spare tons of space. Problem is that might actually make it something that isn't terrible for everyone involved.Just wanted to check considering the fluff stated the design was originally attended to be a actual battlemech but what we ended up with was much more entertaining ;D
Just wanted to check considering the fluff stated the design was originally attended to be a actual battlemech but what we ended up with was much more entertaining ;D
Edit: Actually it's ten and a half tons.
I tried swapping it for a fusion engine last night, and ended up with something like twelve spare tons of space. Problem is that might actually make it something that isn't terrible for everyone involved.if you swap for a near 1 to 1 tonnage of engine, you get a 5/8 with a few spare tons.. or a 6/9 that needs to shave a ton or so off somewhere.
Edit: Actually it's ten and a half tons. Honestly I'd be tempted to shove as many small lasers on there as would fit myself in a hypothetical "Raider III, now with FUSION", since they seem to be used for demolition in a industrial capacity, and wouldn't raise quite as many eyebrows as something like a PPC or Large Laser.
To me, this seems like it's built for the sheer fear factor than to actually deal damage. Those saws aren't gonna do any real damage unless it's against the head, but the view from the cockpit of the 'Mech on the other end will totally scare the crap outta ya. Just imagine, if for but a single moment, you're in your Panther or Raven or Wolfhound, and then all of this sudden, you hear over your external speakers this ungodly buzzing noise that's coming straight towards you. Those saws ain't looking so lame now, are they?
still, even with all those constraints you'd think his design team would have done a better job...
Is that before or after the light mech pilot realizes they can walk faster than this thing can run when it isn't overheated from firing its weapon?
this is an embodyment of the Sagan quote; "If you wish to make apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe"
Does it matter? It's approximately several tons of whirring spiky metal that is coming to meet your face in a violent manner oh dear God run to the hills you fool with enough force to do more than a scratch on the paintjob. If it hits you, your day is going to go southward.
And even if it doesn't hit, the psychological damage is already done. You do not wanna tangle with this, you want to run the hell away. Basic logic right there. That hilltop several hexes away looks like good place to snipe this thing with your ~~totally rad~~ ER Large Laser...wait a minute, is that another one? Oh, no, more spiky doom is coming toward your face!
That only works for so long, and against nobody accustomed to fighting in physical combat.
This exactly. This thing isn't meant to fight military or even militia units, it's meant to cow civilians and shoot up the police cars that stand between it and a bank vault. Use your real 'mechs to draw off the militia, then send these things in. They trudge up to their target, scare the crap out of everyone with a couple salvos and look all fearsome for the newsies, then they kick in the door to the treasure room so the foot-thugs can loot it. Odds are they'll do this while wearing false colors, so that Bannson can show up a week later with one of his more 'respectable' units, parade into town, and finagle a juicy garrison contract out of the terrorized rubes. Remember, these are folks who grew up during the Pax Stone, so the vast majority of them haven't seen a single BattleMech in their life. Without a proper 'mech to demonstrate how useless they really are, Raiders look terrifying.Another possible use is where you'd use the Patron SecurityMech. Base security, supply convoy protection, infantry support, anti-vehicle use. If you're playing House Kurita, you might use these in a chain gang mission.
My ideal use for this would be a hold the line scenario. The defenders are Bannson's real military forces, trying to hold off the militia or other planetary forces long enough for the raiders to get to their target and bust it open. The attackers are trying to get through that line so they can stomp the Raiders flat, but they have to at least be intact enough when they get there that even the Raiders' pitiful firepower can't hurt them.
I did some experimenting and I found a nice refit.
1. Strip all equipment
2. Change to a 5/8 fuel cell engine
3. Install a Light Gauss Rifle
Are fuel cells also considered military-grade tech during the "Stone Age"? I can understand not being able to procure or reverse-engineer a fusion engine, but fuel cells should be well-understood technology for the civilian sector by the 3100s. It would gimp the Raider a lot less than that ICE. Unless, of course, fuel cells are off-limits too.
cheers,
Gabe
They wanted military-grade fusion engines.
They wanted military-grade fusion engines.
To sum the Raider up, Bannson looked at the phrase "Life is cheap, battlemechs are expensive" and decided that the second half of the statement was the real problem, not the first. :)
Civilian vehicle manufacturing, most likely.Owed by Bannson Unlimited of course.
Owed byBannson UnlimitedAcme of course.
I thought of this:
And now I can't get the image of Wile E Coyote using one of these out of my head.
Civilian vehicle manufacturing, most likely.Um, what? These things are using military grade engines, plants would have to be retooled to make them, and retooled at LOT at rather large expense to make something that no one else is going to be interested in buying. Oh, and there's the issue of somehow getting the RotS to sign off on all of this
Oh, and there's the issue of somehow getting the RotS to sign off on all of thisAs stated in the fluff, this was all done off the books and in secret so the RotS wouldn't find out.
And it strikes me as being more like the Arbiter. Not great but good enough for what it does...which I guess is get in a fight and die really fast.
A company of Raiders vs. a company of Arbiters...who would come out on top of that one?
A company of Raiders vs. a company of Arbiters...who would come out on top of that one?
cheers,
Gabe
Raider has alot of glaring flaws, but it has standard armor.
Quite possibly the Raider may be able to blend in with industrial mechs easier. Or at least be moved into position as part of a work crew.
"I'm totally a WorkMech! No, really! ...Those tubes on my shoulder? Um...demolition charges?"
Fake searchlight coverLots of.....
Yeah, and that small moon was equipped with a planetary core sampling device...
Oi! It's not the Empire's fault that someone ended up using Tim Taylor Technology in regards to the core sampler! :P
Alpha Strike S/M for Raider should be 0*. Alpha Strike S/M/L for Raider Mk II should be 0*. Changes have been entered, card should update within 24 hours.
Guys, out of sheer curiosity since I didn't see it being discussed, how effective would these two units be in a Late Succession War Mad-Max environment in normal Battletech (Not AlphaStrike)?
Guys, out of sheer curiosity since I didn't see it being discussed, how effective would these two units be in a Late Succession War Mad-Max environment in normal Battletech (Not AlphaStrike)?
Thanks for the update. :)
For the Raider, and Raider Mk II, I just found my AlphaStrike "trash mob" replacement for the good old Patron PatrolMech PTN-2M ;D
Guys, out of sheer curiosity since I didn't see it being discussed, how effective would these two units be in a Late Succession War Mad-Max environment in normal Battletech (Not AlphaStrike)?
So, if I'm hetzering these, I spring the Raider from an ambush position, use its built up heat and activated TSM to fall back to a new position, let it cool down and then spring it from ambush again?
I finally realized something. The Raider is the Bob Semple (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Semple_tank) of mechs.pretty much. where the other Industrial MOD's are good analogs for Technicals, Guntrucks, and other such vehicles, the Raider's rather severe flaws put it into a category of its own.
pretty much. where the other Industrial MOD's are good analogs for Technicals, Guntrucks, and other such vehicles, the Raider's rather severe flaws put it into a category of its own.
That's an insult to Hetzers everywhere! :D