Author Topic: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II  (Read 24426 times)

GreekFire

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’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« on: 29 May 2015, 07:53:30 »
Look at them, in all of their glory. They're beautiful.
From Era Digest: Dark Age

~ ~ ~

Ladies. Gents. We have it - the ultimate in BattleMech technology. Unsurpassed by anything we’ve ever seen before, its insurmountable dominance will last for decades to come. Clanners quiver in fear at the very name of this ultimate machine of unyielding devastation. Elite Kuritan MechWarriors commit seppuku at the very thought of facing one in combat. Even terrifying Manei Domini cyborg soldiers crumble beneath the greatest BattleMech to ever be made: the Raider. Ed- I picked up these delusional ramblings from a drugged-up door-to-door salesman a few weeks back. Since we still don’t know much about Bannson or his overarching goals in the Republic, I’ve decided to include this briefing to commanders operating within his theater. I’d take most of what’s written here with a grain of salt - I’ve never seen such a brainfried person in all of my years working for you.

The 3130s brought Jacob Bannson (capitalist extraordinaire) onto a destined path laid out to him by the stars of fate. Channeling the finances gifted to him, his legions of followers would follow the vision of their great president and toil together to create a ‘Mech that would be free of the limited thinking of those unable to see his light. Ed- this near-Capellan manner of propping Bannson onto a pedestal is a bit unnerving, to say the least. In Linguo Sane-o, Bannson ordered the construction of a BattleMech that was independent of any existing supply lines outside of his direct control. Although we don’t yet fully understand why he needed such a machine, our current analysts believe that he wanted to create his own small kingdom in Prefecture IV. This scenario would obviously require him to be able to last through any Republic-enforced sanctions on him or his companies - and thus the Raider was born.

The JL-1 Raider would eventually come in at 50 tons - the perfect middle ground between zero and one hundred. Not satisfied with this already-impressive feat of technological engineering, a 200-rated ICE engine would propel it at the same speed as many mighty and renown ‘Mechs that had come before it: such as the Warhammer, the Marauder, and the Orion, just to name a few. Ed- You didn’t misread that - the Raider is a slow ‘Mech, and one powered with an ICE engine on top of that. Talk about a drawback…but I believe our snakes-oil salesman talks about the engine again later on. Standard components would reduce costs to absurdly low amounts, while the inclusion of Triple-Strength Myomer would make the Raider a fearsome foe in close combat situations. 7 tons of armor cover the Raider, giving it highly respectable and nearly peerless durability. Ed- for a light ‘Mech, maybe, but certainly not a 50-tonner - and as they say, a best defense is a good offense. The Raider takes this to heart. Ed- Uh huh...

The true strength of the Raider is apparent in its weapon selection. A Dual Saw is capable constant and brutal attacks regardless of any potential actuator hits. This devastating weapon can deal nearly the same amount of damage as the fabled Clan ER Medium Laser, itself nearly half the strength of a Heavy PPC, enough to decapitate your typical ‘Mech!! Imagine: all of that headcapping power condensed in such a small saw-shaped package. Ed- Cutting through the crazy talk and fantastic leaps of logic, the Dual Saw is a terrible choice on a combat design. The TSM doesn’t even increase its melee effectiveness even at its optimal level, and our studies show that it deals roughly as much damage as a Hatchet would on a 35-ton ‘Mech. Heck, this “weapon” has even been shown to be less accurate in ‘Mech-on-‘Mech engagements than the said Hatchet.

Supporting this mighty brawling weapon are two Medium Range Missile-10 packs. These weapons can positively saturate an area with high-charge missiles, blowing away the opposition before they can ever react. A generous 12 rounds feed each launcher. That’s more ammo than the fabled Atlas had for its missiles, or Hunchback had for its autocannon. Talk about lasting firepower. Ed- I’d nearly forgotten just how terrible these weapons are…the inherent inaccuracy of MRMs make the missiles stupidly hard to land on a target, and you can just forget about using them at longer ranges. Combine those with the pilots that Bannson was finding? Yeah, they weren’t hitting much. And that whole schpiel about its “lasting” firepower? Yeah, bullcrap. That might be a good thing, though, there’s no CASE on this walking abomination. Oh, and those weapons? They’re all the Raider has. A Targe is more intimidating.

Of course, even the ultimate ‘Mech has its flaws. Some might wildly claim that the Raider has its share of heat woes. But what ‘Mech doesn’t? Anyone who’s ever seen a Tri-Vid on those old Succession Wars ‘MechWarriors knows that you have to push the heat scale hard in order to win the biggest battles. Don’t worry, though - that supposed "weakness" is actually a great strength: remember, the Raider has Triple-Strength Myomers!! Push the heat up, and your foes will regret ever picking a fight with you. Ed- “Heat woes” might be the understatement of the century. I’ve never seen a ‘Mech run as hot as the Raider - ever. Running with one pushes the heatsinks to the limit. Shooting both MRM-10s increases the heat load to unmanageable levels, and forget about fine-tuning that TSM. It’ll never happen. End result? If the Raider stands still and shoots an MRM rack, it’ll take twenty seconds before the heat is fully dissipated. Disgusting.

Combine the worst heat management possible with loads of explodable ammo AND an ICE engine filled with volatile fuel and you’ve got something dangerously awful. Those MRMs? Lets see how much they hit once the heat truly starts kicking in. A single SRM-2 loaded with infernos is enough to completely ruin the Raider beyond recognition. It’s that bad, and there are no hidden features that can save it. I wholeheartedly recommend scrapping each and every part of the Raider we might salvage in combat.

The only variant that we have on record goes by the JL-2 “Raider Mk II”. It’s somehow better by being worse - let me explain. It only uses a 150-rated engine this time around, moving it at speeds reminiscent of ancient Atlases. This does let the Raider Mk II mount more armor, with an additional 3 tons giving it the semblance of average protection and the ability to take a Gauss slug (and more) anywhere on its body without having it going internal. The MRMs are dumped (thank God) for a single RAC/2 with two tons of ammunition. This cool-running RAC (helped out through its surprisingly efficient Improved Cooling Jacket) lets the Raider Mk II better micromanage its overheating, while its range and battlefield durability are both increased as well. It’s still terrible, though. A jammable RAC/2 and a farmers implement on a 50-ton BattleMech? What is this, the Dark Ages? Even King Arthur would be ashamed.

~ ~ ~

Master Unit List
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6955/raider-jl-1
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6956/raider-mk-ii-jl-2
« Last Edit: 11 October 2020, 22:40:22 by GreekFire »
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #1 on: 29 May 2015, 07:59:40 »
I... wow.  That's some beautiful engineering right there.  I don't think I've ever seen something quite as genuinely useless.  Weirdo, you're up!  I've got nothing.

My God, it's worse in Alpha Strike!  No damage, one overheat, slow, melee.  And the Mk II is somehow capable of doing literally zero damage.  Not even minimal (0*) damage, just a flat nothing, no overheat.
« Last Edit: 29 May 2015, 08:02:30 by Scotty »
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A. Lurker

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #2 on: 29 May 2015, 08:53:13 »
Cute 'Mech. Reminds me of some uselessness I've produced on purpose on occasion... ;)

What actually mostly kills it isn't even the dual saw as such or the MRMs on the original version. It's the simple lack of heat sinks. It can only just cope with its own movement heat (which, being an ICE-powered Battle- rather than IndustrialMech, it still builds up normally), so any weapons fire on top of that will slow it down right quick...which will prompt its pilot to run more to compensate...which will then actually keep the uncomfortable heat level exactly constant. Or getting steadily worse if the pilot's dumb enough to fire more shots or if further heat comes in from elsewhere, of course.

This is the sort of 'Mech you purposefully let your enemies steal in hopes that they'll fall for it and try to use it against you next time you do battle. Although I suspect that even old "Mad" Max Liao would have seen through this one. :D

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #3 on: 29 May 2015, 09:52:27 »
lol

The Raider seems to have two good things:
1) It looks quite nice, in the art at least.
2) Hordes of these as enemies would be kind of funny in a scenario. Maybe. Assuming bad enough pilots, for quantity has a quality of its own, as the saying goes.

AldanFerrox

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #4 on: 29 May 2015, 10:08:09 »
I asked myself about the Raider Mk.II: Why use a RAC in the first place? Why not use an AC/5 instead? And why not replace the Saw with some Rocket Launchers, Machine Guns and Heat Sinks? But this would've been too sensible, I guess.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #5 on: 29 May 2015, 10:19:32 »
I asked myself about the Raider Mk.II: Why use a RAC in the first place? Why not use an AC/5 instead? And why not replace the Saw with some Rocket Launchers, Machine Guns and Heat Sinks? But this would've been too sensible, I guess.

The obvious answer is 'because Bannson's factories weren't making those weapons'. Cop-out, probably, but the idea was to build something that could be built within Bannson's private 'kingdom'. If he's not building rocket launchers, no rocket launchers go on the Mech. (Obviously that means he WAS producing MRM racks and rotary autocannons, based on that line of thinking- if that's not the case, well, I have no idea).

This thing sucks on toast. I REALLY want to try a small horde of them out now.  ;D
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #6 on: 29 May 2015, 10:23:46 »
those hazardous location industrialmechs not turning a profit? slap some weapons on them and get some sweet government money! (in theory)

i'm gonna defend the MRMs here. they're good at three things, ambush tactics, shock and awe, and cheaply supplying forces you don't expect to get any results with firepower. and this is pretty much the definition of the third. besides, at point blank, you might push enough damage to knock your opponent over, and then you can throw TSM kicks into them- which is literally the only way this is going to deal meaningful damage.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #7 on: 29 May 2015, 10:43:40 »

Jacob Bannson is no Tony Stark.   Even with its big rig exhaust pipes, the Raider sucks plasma.

That said, I recall that the Raider's development was also limited by Republic restrictions on military-grade technology/equipment, which could explain a lot of the design choices in-universe.

Game-wise, the Raider is probably one of the cheapest ways to deploy a TSM-enhanced, one-punch-kill unit.  Thanks to its 50-ton weight and TSM, the Raider can run 8MPs and throw 10-point punches.  This theoretically threatens any mech within 8 hexes with a head-mounted cockpit and 9 points or less of head armor (which is nearly every mech ever made).

The Raider is sort of like the Hetzer.  Usually slow, poorly armored, and lacking in secondary weaponry.  But if you let the Raider get close enough, you run a decent chance of losing something vital to its primary weapon.  And as others have already mentioned, this is even more true if there's a lot of Raiders on the board.

It's too bad a variant was never developed that traded in the goofy melee weapons and less-than-effective MRMs for another battlefist, Apollo FCS, SRM packs, and/or massed RL-10s.
« Last Edit: 29 May 2015, 10:48:34 by Natasha Kerensky »
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glitterboy2098

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #8 on: 29 May 2015, 11:36:16 »
hmm.. i can't devil's advocate this. it's just that bad.

that said, this thing is still better than many of the canon industrial mech MOD's from the period of unrest in terms of combat ability. it's only real flaw compared to the industrials is the heat issues.

frankly, that dual Saw is a pointless waste of tonnage. if i was ever stuck piloting this mech i'd have that pulled, and the mass reinvested in heatsinks. 7 extra standards would make this thing better. if your really fixated on getting the TSM some use, 5 standards and 2 more tons of armor. (with the resulting 7 dissipation, you could run and fire both MRM's for only 3 heat.. which means that with the right fire pattern and careful movement you could stay in that TSM sweetspot.)

though at least you could put it in a cool paintscheme..    O0

« Last Edit: 29 May 2015, 14:08:08 by glitterboy2098 »

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #9 on: 29 May 2015, 11:37:10 »
So, if I'm hetzering these, I spring the Raider from an ambush position, use its built up heat and activated TSM to fall back  to a new position, let it cool down and then spring it from ambush again?

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #10 on: 29 May 2015, 11:38:27 »
More probably you miss all your MRMs and die on the first ambush.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #11 on: 29 May 2015, 11:41:10 »
it would have been interesting if the design had gotten a real makeover later on in the MWDA period, after Bannson's group no longer had to operate so covertly.. switching to a SFE or at worse a Fuelcell engine could free up a ton of space for fixing this mech's flaws.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #12 on: 29 May 2015, 11:51:05 »
This is a thing of beauty. Nothing else, but at least it's got that going for it. ;D
Never heard of them before.
How come the RAC translates to no damage in AS?
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #13 on: 29 May 2015, 11:52:15 »
More probably you miss all your MRMs and die on the first ambush.

.....and? The Raider probably costs just as much as modern Hetzers.  Quick question. Does the MRMs allow the Raider to clear minefields? I'm kinda envisioning a Combat Engineer role for these.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #14 on: 29 May 2015, 11:58:32 »
I don't normally mind MRMs all that much. I may use them more for fluff and giggles, but when they do hit, they hit firmly enough.

They're just decidedly hamstrung by the Raider's heat woes. MRMs work best for me when I can use them as close-range bombardment weapons -- keep a steady stream of them pointed at the enemy and eventually even they will start to connect, and it's not like two hundred and forty individual missiles to the ton don't give me ammo to burn. But the Raider can't do that because of, again, its measly two-point heat dissipation capacity; it'd basically push itself into shutdown check range with the second volley and up to risk of potential ammo or engine explosion with the third.

Quick question. Does the MRMs allow the Raider to clear minefields? I'm kinda envisioning a Combat Engineer role for these.

Nope. It's a quirk of the rules -- a single MRM 20 rack could do it, but not paired 10s because it comes down purely to the size of the individual launcher.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #15 on: 29 May 2015, 12:02:30 »
The combination of MRMs and TSM does give you one small role in combat, bunker busting. Unload the MRMs on a building, then use the TSM to kick the weakened door in. (Or wall, whatever works for you.) Its not a great plan, you'd be better off sending Girl Scouts to infiltrate with cookie robots, but its better than trying to fight head on.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #16 on: 29 May 2015, 12:13:49 »
More probably you miss all your MRMs and die on the first ambush.

But just think of all the gunfire you're absorbing that isn't hitting Bannson's Cygnus! You're a HERO!  ;D
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #17 on: 29 May 2015, 12:17:00 »
This is a thing of beauty. Nothing else, but at least it's got that going for it. ;D
Never heard of them before.
How come the RAC translates to no damage in AS?
probably because of heat issues.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #18 on: 29 May 2015, 12:26:54 »
The Raider is sort of like the Hetzer.

That's an insult to Hetzers everywhere! :D

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #19 on: 29 May 2015, 12:47:33 »
probably because of heat issues.

Close.  Well, yes, but that's not the whole reason.

The RAC doesn't do a full point of damage.  Specifically, the RAC/2 does 0.8 points of Alpha Strike damage.  Normally, being greater than or equal to 0.5 points would round up to one.  However, here the heat issues steal it away, and because there was never a full point of damage to take away in the first place, it gets no OV value either.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #20 on: 29 May 2015, 13:02:29 »
Wow, it's like an actual canon BubbaMech...
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #21 on: 29 May 2015, 13:10:03 »
Honestly, In universe I'd almost rather drive down to the local Quicksell branch with a couple briefcases full of thousand-cbill notes and buy however many of their fine, fine vehicles I can afford for however much Bannson sunk into the R&D and production costs for this... this... technological terror. Or at least order my engineers to pull the same trick the IJN did with their Mogami-class cruisers and deliberately design it to be exceptionally easy (comparatively speaking) to swap in a combat rated fusion engine and some ER Mediums or whatever later on.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #22 on: 29 May 2015, 13:18:37 »
Effective at nothing? Yesh, i think these were effective in the clicky game rules verse here.

Well, these things weren't exactly intended to go toe to toe for with BattleMechs.  SecurityMechs, MilitiaMechs (maaybe) but not frontline combat.

I think the Industrial TSM would be useful in lifting swag captured in a raid. Heck's it's Brannson's brigade is called Raiders.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #23 on: 29 May 2015, 14:11:15 »
was it regular or industrial TSM?

Industrial has some perks to it the regualt doesn't, like not needing to watch heat.. but IIRC it can only be mounted on industrials, which i do not believe the Raider is ruleswise.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #24 on: 29 May 2015, 14:13:24 »
I think the Industrial TSM would be useful in lifting swag captured in a raid.

I'm pretty sure the TSM is military-grade (and sarna confirms, FWTW).

Oh, and don't forget the searchlight!

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #25 on: 29 May 2015, 14:32:00 »
It seems the Raider isn't really an industrial mech, rather it is a real Battlemech built with some industrial parts? I mean, it has standard structure according to Megameklab, not an industrial one.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #26 on: 29 May 2015, 14:48:44 »
Correct, it's a BattleMech with an ICE engine, not an armed IndustrialMech.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #27 on: 29 May 2015, 14:57:34 »
I bet a Lance of Quasits would easily slaughter a Lance of Raiders.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #28 on: 29 May 2015, 15:20:07 »
Obviously that means he WAS producing MRM racks

Bannson was the Victor Kiam of MRMs.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Raider and Raider Mk II
« Reply #29 on: 29 May 2015, 15:32:13 »
Actually, I threw 2 of these, one of each variant into a battle with a friend..... I expected that they would die, and get out of the way..... instead, the RAC, firing in double mode hit with one shell on a floating crit and took out a cockpit... while the MRM version rushed up to a Rommel Tank, and proceeded to pillbox it, before mauling a light mech with missiles, 2 turns later ---- both had 6/6 pilot gunners, and they were inspired.

They did die, and it really didn't take much to do it, and it helped that they were ignored for most of the early battle..... but oddly enough, they CAN surprise you.

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