BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Player Boards => Fan Fiction => Topic started by: Trace Coburn on 30 August 2013, 23:46:03
-
Okay, I might as well get started. I’m taking Cannonshop up on this offer (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,343.msg380570.html#msg380570), to whit: “Anyone who still has extant copies of my older stuff, is perfectly welcome to repost it.”
Anyone who gets twitchy when faced with errors of spelling, grammar, punctuation and formatting needs to know that these are the texts as-posted by Cannonshop himself. I know how twitchy I get about people possibly modifying my stories, so other than matching the original italics/bold formatting, and resurrecting the odd ‘missing’ line that got obscured by Censortron hiccups, these stories are re-posted exactly as Cannonshop first put them on-line. :-\ I’ll even be including relevant writer’s notes and out-of-story remarks, including a few choice comments from readers of the time. ;)
Main Ngo Timeline (Ngo-verse 3.0(?))
2729 — Kowloon Rising (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,33022.0.html) (re-post: complete)
2768 — A Pound of Flesh — from the Debtor’s Chest (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,33024.0.html) (re-post: complete)
2776 — When the Man Comes Around (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,33048.0.html) co-written by blacktigeractual (re-post: complete)
3052 — Unsuitable (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,32744.0.html) (re-post: complete)
3059 — Blood of my Motherland (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,32787.0.html) (re-post: complete)
3061 — Moving Towards Madness (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,32820.0.html) (re-post: complete)
3063 — Enter the Falcon (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,32851.0.html) co-written by Blackhorse 6 (re-post: complete)
3075 — For the Liberty of Others (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,32958.0.html) (re-post: complete)
3076 — Awards and Rewards (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,32991.0.html) co-written by Deathrider6 (re-post: complete)
3077 — Standards and Decisions (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,33693.0.html) (re-post: complete)
3079 — Never Coming Home (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,34196.0.html) (re-post: complete)
3081 — Sweetness and Light (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,48758.0.html) (re-post: pending)
3081 — For the Good of the Nation (re-post: pending)
3081 — Genesis — (re-post: pending)
3082 — For Home and People (re-post: pending)
3082 — Finding Your Feet (re-post: pending)
3083 — Rule of Law (re-post: pending)
3083 — The Rule of Man (re-post: pending)
[unknown timeframe] — In Hell (re-post: pending)
3084 — My Homeland, My People (re-post: pending)
3085 — Going Home (re-post: pending)
3086 — Show Me How It Hurts (re-post: pending)
3087 — My Native Land (re-post: pending)
3087 — Sing Songs of Unity (re-post: pending)
3088 — ‘3089’ (re-post: pending)
3089 — A Forest (re-post: pending)
3090 — A Cold War (re-post: pending)
3091 — Overviews (re-post: pending)
3092 — And Angels Weep (re-post: pending)
3094 — Stoke the Flame of the Empire (re-post: pending)
3097 — In Blue (re-post: pending)
3099 — Dark Places (re-post: pending)
3099 — Burial Plots (re-post: pending)
Primer on Kowloon (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,16702.msg382824.html#msg382824)
Primer on Cholmann’s Syndrome (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,16702.msg382871.html#msg382871)
AI side-line
Technically speaking, the ‘Tabby’ stories take place in the normal Ngo-verse, but there’s next to no interaction between Tabiranth and the ’Loonies.
[No timestamp] — Identify (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,33210.0.html) (re-post: complete)
3068 — Sybil (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,33229.0.html) originally a stand-alone fic written by Giovanni Blasini (re-post by Giovanni Blasini: in progress)
3069 — Knock, Nock (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,33343.0.html) fan-novel co-written by Cannonshop, Giovanni Blasini, and Deathrider6 (re-post: complete)
3083 — Ascension (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=57460.0) co-written by Giovanni Blasini, Liam’s Ghost, and Cannonshop (re-post: in progress)
3085 — Cast Down from Grace (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=57421.0) (re-post: complete)
Alternate Timelines
FGC’62 AU
Index of FGC’62 Timeline (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,17932.0.html) (Index and all related fics posted by Cannonshop himself)
As the title says, this index, and the fics it links to here, are related to the Fan Grand Councils 3062 game which started here several years ago, then migrated to the Intelser.org forums. As such, a lot of the background is incredibly divergent from canon (that game got wild! :o); you’d need to do a lot of catch-up on those forums to get all of the context, and at the moment those forums are closed to non-members following a spam infestation. :'( That said, the fics the FGC set-up let Cannonshop write were classic Ngo/’Loonie stuff, so they’d be worth your time if you can ever get access.
3066 — Traveling with Cousin Giao (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,17963.0.html)
3067 — A Sickness (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,16702.0.html)
3067 — Redneck (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,17188.0.html)
3067 — Dinner with Elizabeth (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,18545.0.html)
3068 — Chickens Come Home to Roost (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,19098.0.html)
3069 — A Singular Event (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,17093.0.html)
3069 — Slouching to Independence (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,18253.0.html)
BattleTech: Shattered Dawn AU
BattleTech: Shattered Dawn is an AU crafted by Takiro and a whole bunch of other contributors, starting from the premise that a Cameron did survive the Amaris Coup. The SLDF’s 90th Heavy Assault Regiment, the “Black Tigers”, were created by blacktigeractual for a series of fan-novels set in BTSD which I highly recommend in their own right. You can read them on-line at OurBattleTech.com (http://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/mercenary-guild/). Technically-speaking, When the Man Comes Around can fit into either the ‘main’ Ngo timeline or the BTSD continuity, but Smell of the Ashes has elements that make it more of a ‘Kowloon/Ngo in the BTSD ’verse’ story.
2776 — When the Man Comes Around (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,33048.0.html) co-written by blacktigeractual (re-post: complete)
2779 — The Smell of the Ashes (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,33379.0.html) co-written by blacktigeractual (re-post: complete)
BTSD crossover AU
Think the Ngos and ’Loonies were bad enough on their own? Add a time-displaced SLDF unit to the mix — worse yet, the 90th Heavy Assault Regiment, the “Black Tigers” of ‘BattleTech: Shattered Dawn’ fame — and watch the fireworks get so much nastier! Sadly, this one remains a stand-alone story at this juncture, but I doubt anyone would complain if it expanded into a complete Ngo-’verse/timeline in its own right. ;)
(For the record, the Black Tigers misjumped out of their timeline into the ‘canon’/Ngo timeline; the Terran Republic and BTSD are not part of the timeline they arrive in.)
3051 — Ghosts of the Dead (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,33531.0.html) fan-novel co-written by blacktigeractual, Cannonshop, and MechRat (re-post: complete)
Hunted Tribes AU
Hunted Tribes is a story by Hotpoint which crosses BattleTech with the 2003 reimagining of BattleStar Galactica and details what happens when the Tag-Tag Fleet finds a ‘New Caprica’ that is already occupied by humans. The resulting interactions between the Colonials, their new hosts, and the Cylons are as complex as they are... interesting, often in the Chinese sense.
Note that the first version of ...But Somehow a Most Melancholy listed below, the ‘original’ version, ran into some serious issues. Hotpoint and Cannonshop began a re-write, and groundwork elements of that version are incorporated into the main narrative of Hunted Tribes, but the rewrite remains unfinished and the ‘first version’ should not be considered part of Hunted Tribes ‘canon’.
3045 — Hunted Tribes (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,10612.0.html) by Hotpoint alone
3046 — ...But Somehow a Most Melancholy (original) co-written by Hotpoint and Cannonshop
3046 — ...But Somehow a Most Melancholy (re-write) co-written by Hotpoint and Cannonshop
Ngo-verse version 2.0(?)
The Ngo-verse went through several iterations over the years, as Cannonshop honed his writing skills and learned better control of his urge to ‘power-game’ through the Ngos and Kowloonese. This iteration was the second version I ever saw, back before these were even adopted by (then) FanPro as the official forums, and while I can’t deny Cannonshop’s passion for the material or his ability to write an exciting narrative, the power-level of his protagonists is far higher than seen in later takes, with the semi-natural consequence that they ended up all but running the entire Lyran Commonwealth at points.
(Sadly, the original version I read appears to have been lost to the data-tides of the Internet. It showcased an even more powerful(!) set of Ngos/’Loonies, but included some really interesting ideas. For instance, in that version, the Ice Hellions were also part of the Jade Falcon invasion of Kowloon... rather to their regret. That was the version where CIH MechWarriors on Kowloon were getting ambushed by Marauders armed with MetalStorm AC/10’s in combat, or falling afoul of twelve-gauge vasectomies from ’Loonie boobytraps when they dis-/re-mounted....)
3063 — ...and Every Mother's Son Will Suffer (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=48757.0) (reposted by wolfcannon)
Ngo-verse version 4.0(?) (With many thanks to glitterboy2098 for initially compiling these links.)
In this iteration of the Ngo-verse, Mizz Liz is something less of a force-of-nature; she’s just as smart and driven and passionate as ever, but she enters the nobility (and ‘repossesses’ Kowloon) in 3057 as a sixteen-year-old, some five years earlier than in previous treatments, which leaves her far less politically adept. Instead of steamrolling everyone in her way, she actually faces pushback from other power-players in the Lyran Commonwealth, who have vastly more experience and resources in managing would-be disruptors. And then the Arluna Flu shows up and really upsets the various applecarts....
3057 — How to you apologize to THEM?: a Elizabeth Ngo featurette (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=50839.0;all) Apparently takes place right after Mizz Liz ‘repossesses’ Kowloon, as seen in A Question of Labour
3058 — Not necessarily to everyone's taste (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=51016.0)
3058 — Her Wings (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=51188.msg1181058#msg1181058)
3063 — Her Boots (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=51330.msg1184324#msg1184324)
3059/3065 — The Watery Silence (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=51513.msg1188541#msg1188541) The Arluna Flu strikes again!
3067 — The Politics of Compromise (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=51818.msg1195846#msg1195846)
3067 — Spreading Darkness (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=51991.msg1199744#msg1199744)
3075 — Cool Wind (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=52196.msg1203781#msg1203781)
3076 — Black Jumpsails (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=52552.msg1212373#msg1212373)
[placeholder — to be updated as necessary]
-
I can't wait for more of these stories to surface!
-
Trace, don't forget that Cannonshop also did a crossover with blacktigeractual. I will dig up the title when I have a spare moment. (Infant daughter being cranky O:-) )
Found it: Ghosts of the Dead, A Shattered Dawn AU story
-
yea a good one :)
-
As I noted, I won’t re-post a fic unless I have the go-ahead from all the writers involved in a work. Blackhorse 6 has signed off, so Enter the Falcon is in the clear; I’m still waiting to hear back from some other writers, so fics like Ghosts of the Dead remain off the table for the time being. :-X
-
I facebooked BTA to let him know.
-
I noticed that you posted the aero designs over on the design board, would you happen to have the vehicle designs for the Rommel/Patton revamps that CS did?
-
I noticed that you posted the aero designs over on the design board, would you happen to have the vehicle designs for the Rommel/Patton revamps that CS did?
They’re most-relevant to stories like For the Liberty of Others, which is where the stats were posted IIRC, and they’ll be linked at the appropriate locations in those respective threads. That said, my archive of For the Liberty of Others is 21 pages long(!), so converting and reformatting it is proving a bit of a slog; it might not go up for a couple of days.
Re-poster’s side-note: in doing the conversion work, I’ve been reminded of exactly how brutal and pointless a complete cluster-frak the Battle of Mississauga was. Ye gods. :o
-
Trace I have most of the old "Really Old" Ngo stories in a word Doc drop me an e mail if ya want them for repost.
-
Okay here is the version i have of When the Man comes around. (When Cannonshop spurred me to my best writing ever.)
-
plus here is the incomplete Part 1 of Ghosts of the Dead you'll all note some parts where you'll see (insert Cannonshop's stuff here) If any of you has the full story, please send it to me. I do want to write part 2.
-
And lastly here is The Smell of the Ashes. This short fic takes place just after the liberation of Terra by the SLDF and fits in to my Through a Mirror Darkly series between Book 2: Of Sorrow And Regrets and Book 3:Those Who Break the Unity.
-
I'm pretty sure I have a full copy of Ghosts of the Dead, including the part I wrote. Give me a few days to find it and I can repost it.
-
Thanks for reposting those. This time I will make myself a copy.
-
reading 'awards and rewards' made me realize why i enjoy cannonshop's Ngo stories so much.. they are basically John Ringo style stories without all the dues ex machina solutions and with no right wing political fanboyism.. :)
since i like ringo's work, but hate his tendancy to pull super-tech out of his ass to resolve stories and loath how he brings his political views into things, this is a good thing IMO.
the 'loonies would have fit right into the Posleen war conflict done by Ringo.
-
When I get home I'll have to look and see if I still have Cannonshops old recon stories which are truly ancient (pre Ngo) :)
-
Index updated to include the stand-alone timeline of Ghosts of the Dead, a joint work between blacktigeractual, his BTSD co-contributor MechRat, and Ngo-verse creator Cannonshop. I don’t know if it will ever become a full series of stories, and at a remove of three years it looks increasingly unlikely, but like the rest of you, I can always hope. ^-^
-
was there some cross over with Battlestar Gal 2003 that had Ngo in it?
-
was there some cross over with Battlestar Gal 2003 that had Ngo in it?
Hotpoint’s BattleTech/nBSG crossover story Hunted Tribes had a spin-off/side-story named ...But Somehow a Most Melancholy, co-written by Cannonshop. A stranded Wolverine pilot and TQF142M5D stumble across each other, and -142 (who gets the name Nike in this continuity) joins the Star League Navy in Exile; later on, Commander Lee Adama’s Pegasus rescues a JumpShip of lostech prospectors from a Cylon boarding-party, and the senior survivor is from a branch of the Ngo family (complete with Cholmann’s).
Unfortunately, as sometimes happened with Cannonshop, his writing ran out ahead of the story to the point where the internal logic began to get strained, and he and Hotpoint decided to scrub it and reboot the story. The reboot was pretty good in its own right, but it was only three pages long when it fell moribund. :(
I’ll try to ping Hotpoint and get permission to repost ... But Somehow a Most Melancholy, but he’s been very, very quiet for quite some time, so I can’t make any promises. :-X
-
I don't remember the name but isn't there a story were Liz Ngo dies and goes to hell, gets hired by the devil and proves rather good at corporate rearranging management structures.
-
I don't remember the name but isn't there a story were Liz Ngo dies and goes to hell, gets hired by the devil and proves rather good at corporate rearranging management structures.
Oddly enough, that one was called In Hell. ;) And it’s on the schedule for re-posting.
(And let’s face it: it’s not like Mizz Liz didn’t always know exactly which way she’d be going when her time came. In at least one story, she said outright that she was born damned, and confirmed her fate the day she chose to serve her people rather than her ‘conscience’.)
-
Indeed.
-
Thanks for this! I'd got a few of these saved, and am now looking forward to seeing the rest as they reappear :)
-
Just came back to get a fix of the old Ngo stuff. ;D
Trace, any chance to see you repost the rest of the stories soon? [notworthy] [notworthy] [notworthy] [watch]
-
Is there an update on the "repost pending"material?
-
Wow, I didn't realize that there were so many parts of the 'Loonieverse that I'd missed.
I have to rectify this. Looks like I have plenty of reading to do now.
-
what about
and every Mother's son will suffer
.
i have several post worth save from the old old old boards.
Cannonshop
(Secret Police Consultant to the Cameron House)
01/28/03 05:32 PM
this is the first date post.
-
... like so many other things, the re-post process has gotten lost in the shuffle for a while. I’ll see what I can do about making some progress, but I try not to make promises I might not be able to keep. :-\
wolfcannon, And Every Mother’s Son Will Suffer is part of the ‘old’ Ngo-verse continuity, the one where Cannonshop basically let the Ngos become the Kowloonese tail wagging the Lyran dog. That continuity had a HIGH awesome quotient, and I enjoyed those stories greatly, but as you’ve noticed, I got bogged down to a halt just re-posting the ‘new and improved’ (and noticeably more restrained/less munchkinised) take on the ’verse. Organising, converting, and re-uploading all of the old stories as well... would probably kill me. Or lead me to kill someone in my vicinity. #P :'(
For what it’s worth, if anyone else has copies of those old stories and wants to re-post them, I’ll happily add them to this index.
-
I have the Old ones they are cached on the laptop.
-
Could you pm me a copy please?
taronstormbear@yahoo.com
-
Deathrider6, you should post them here so we can have a fix of our prefered psycho! :) [rockon] [cheers]
-
Or at least post 'em on the web somewhere for download.... pretty please?
-
It will be a wee bit but I will see what I can do. Posting them will take a lot there are over 900 single spaced pages of Ngo goodness:)
-
Speaking of Cannonshop, is he still on the forums?
-
He's around. But not very active.
-
Lrrk, lrrk..lrrrk...
In a few months, I may be setting up a wordpress to hold Ngoverse materials as well as a series of fanfics written over on the STO boards. (some of those are rather quite massive) as well as an original "Superhero" story I've been fiddling with the last couple months.
said original story is, well... probably the worst thing I've ever written. Including the stuff from grade school, so you're forewarned if it does happen that people will be able to read it. (before that happens, I'll have to decide how much I hate the whole world...)
as Liam's Ghost said, I"m not gone, just really, really inactive.
-
Any Btech new stories coming our way soon . Your body of work is one of my favorites cannon or not O0
-
... map of Kowloon ...
ahem...
;)
-
Let me see if I can find a way to get a round tuit. (Much rarer than a square tuit...)
I'll have to dig, I think I actually DID start a map-making project when I started the second or third revision of the setting. If fortune smiles upon me, it'll still exist.
-
a map of Kowloon, wow...
a place with so much history, unofficially, but still damm good.
-
He had it done but never finished it. For those interested I have a compliation of most of the Ngoverse stuff. I imagine I will have to get CS a copy too.
-
Please post them. We can't get enough of Loonies here! :)) :)) :)) :))
-
Hmm, which version is "...and every mother's son" from? The setup seems to be rather different with Liz's relationship to Kowloon than most of the stories I've read.
-
Hmm, which version is "...and every mother's son" from? The setup seems to be rather different with Liz's relationship to Kowloon than most of the stories I've read.
First series. Definitely first series. ISTR that it was the first go-round writing about Falcons hitting Kowloon, the munchfactor was very high (even for me) and there were more influences from writers like John Ringo and others, also Liz didn't have a terminal illness in that series, she was 'only' battling epilepsy and psychosis. Later series I tried to tone down/regulate her insanity and in compensation,ramped up her genetic defect into a full-blown nightmare syndrome, and I also both toned down and ramped up the munch simultaneously, moving from employing what amounts to "Super Mercs" and instead focusing on organically developing better native levies that were less...goofy? in power.
At some point in the first series, I made Liz a terrible mom-as in "The state will have custody because you're an unstable, abusive, bitch." Later series I toned down or eliminated most of THAT in favour of just making her distant with her children.
First series she ends up being Peter's. Second series, she ends up having a short-lived affair with the man (producing Amanda) but it never goes long-term, he never proposes.
FGC series, that relationship never happens, instead both Amanda and Patrick (Now twins) were pulled from her dying body one month premature and their father was a one-night fling with Jaime Wolf on Terra. (FGC was WEIRD) Notably, in the FGC game, Jaime Wolf was her 'first'-he took her virginity the same night he got her pregnant (after a diplomatic 'party' of sorts), neither of them expected anything to happen and she didn't find out until she was en-route home-he found out through Wolfnet. (I kept the local social taboos in place for that version of Kowloon- single-mom is okay, abortion is not okay, it's a defect to make them a bit less 'enlightened'.) In the FGC's version, Jaime "Did the right thing" and legitimized the kids,though he only got custody of the boy. (The daughter, born a few minutes earlier, was the heir to the estate and the locals would have none of that whole 'absentee landlord crap'. Amanda was raised by foster parents on Kowloon). The FGC 'verse was all sorts of weird-we had a jump late in the game to a much later time period, allowing me to have Amanda and Patrick as adults. Backgrounding with the TH player (GM) at the time meant Patrick wasn't a total stranger, and Amanda's father did get visitation until he was killed in battle, and the Dragoons' Beta Regiment hung out for a while on Kowloon to look out for 'his kid' and make sure she wasn't being, you know, warped or anything the way her mum was.
and yes, 'Auntie' Maeve did exert some influence on both of them after Jaime died.
Most of that material IS long gone. Intelser did, iirc, a housecleaning when they were setting up the 'next' FGC game and I wasn't quite smart or quick enough to grab the RP material in whole from that version.
Fourth version was the collaborations with BlackTigerActual, involving the 90th. those stories never got to the time point where Liz gets knocked up, I'm not sure who the father would be if they did-maybe one of the Tigers, maybe one of their dependents, or the kids could end up being the genetically modified 'cannister clones' because Liz wouldn't survive a pregnancy.
no tellin', I don't know.
Fifth (but tied to second) is teh version of kowloonese that featured in the hunted tribes stories. Those basically lost momentum pretty quickly when we started the rewrite. People got busy with life, lost interest, etc. For my part, that series kind of marked the start of the decline for my marriage, and I ended up on-hiatus indefinitely while dealing with domestic collapse at home. (I managed to hold things together until 2013 or so, but all of my activities suffered over that process.)
-
hence why i posted its original posting date at the first.
...and every Mother's son will suffer.
as posted on 01/28/03
-
Cannonshop, I will admit that the FGC was my 1st taste of Ngo, and wow did I love your writing and went back to see all others
I kinda wish you could bring this to the offical status with CBT, it was that good
-
Cannonshop, I will admit that the FGC was my 1st taste of Ngo, and wow did I love your writing and went back to see all others
I kinda wish you could bring this to the offical status with CBT, it was that good
there were a great many very Good reasons that wasn't about to happen. Movement to a Canon status would require a great deal of balancing work for one- The Canon Battletech is an entity that has to have long-term legs and maintain 'game-ability' for new and old players alike, number one.
Number two, is that the Canon is Jordan Weisman's universe, even when he lets go of the controls, it's the 'verse of the people carrying the ball of his legacy. At that time, those people were pretty much the SAME people we have doing it now (at least, at the top), while in the later incarnations I tried much harder to 'fit' it into their 'verse, I made quite a few mis-calculations and ended up with something that really didn't fit the direction the Canon timeline was going.
My stuff doesn't fit. didn't fit. My 'style' clashes too much with the established way things pan out. I actually had a chance to write for the first Jihad sourcebook, and ended up dropping out of the freelancer pool entirely because I couldn't pull off good material when it counted (i.e. when I was working to be paid.) Teh best I ever managed were four writeups in one Mercs book, and three in a second. that's it, that's my total writing for canon...and note that nothing I did for those, led anywhere-nobody picked up the ball I dropped in the playground.
why?
My stuff didn't fit. It actually kinda sucked...and that was an opportunity to get something that didn't suck published with my name attached-as canon. I blew my chance, because what I wrote was GARBAGE. In the final analysis with a few years now between then and now, I recognize that fact.
-
I remember you talking, obliquely, about the Merc write-ups over the years, but I don't think I've ever heard you admit which ones were actually yours CS. Is that something we'll ever know or is it something that you're keeping to yourself?
-
Cannonshop I understand that, but what I meant was not the over the top of Liz, but more how 1 planet could build up their own defense lines and "not" be super tech to do it, or do an Iran and build your own defense force infrastructure, and build close copy of other hardware with some new twist. More like a Real military, and yes I know not much room for them. But I don't recall Kowloon, having a large Mech Force.
I love your force designs, but I will admit I am Steiner loyalist.. and if truth be told I would be Heimdall often acts as self-appointed guardians of the Lyran people.
-
There's not much room for a real militaries in the battletech universe.
-
Cannonshop I understand that, but what I meant was not the over the top of Liz, but more how 1 planet could build up their own defense lines and "not" be super tech to do it, or do an Iran and build your own defense force infrastructure, and build close copy of other hardware with some new twist. More like a Real military, and yes I know not much room for them. But I don't recall Kowloon, having a large Mech Force.
I love your force designs, but I will admit I am Steiner loyalist.. and if truth be told I would be Heimdall often acts as self-appointed guardians of the Lyran people.
a lot of the problem has to do with the nature of BT militaries vs. so-called 'realistic' ones, for instance with Kowloon, I made the decision early on to cut the variety of specific designs filling the same role. It was a basic mechanical engineering thing-50mm guns don't fire 20mm shells very well, or 100mm shells at all. (the sheer quantity of bore-sizes, not even limited by manufacturer or model, in the TRO's for something as simple as AC-10 weapons...) I was applying real-world economics to a setting that was and is decidedly heroic fantasy, and basing my decision tree on real-world history. (The German Army in 1940 had literally dozens of different, non-compatible, 'Standard' 8mm rifle rounds in their inventory-same bore size (Roughly) but it meant that there was a real possibility that your infantry company equipped with Mausers would find their next ammo shipment was ammunition for Steyr-Mannlichers. The 8x57 Mauser cartridge is rimless and the shell has a different diameter from the 8x56R cartridge used by Austria, Hungary, Romania...and there were two versions of the Mauser cartridge-the 7.92x57mmS, and the J-their bullets were different diameters, one was pointed, the other a rounded off cylinder...) Simplifying to a standard ammunition means needing fewer warehouses and getting more per tonne from the same factory.
The problem is, Canon relies heavily on 'Variety'. In a given CANON formation of 36 'mechs, (a battalion) the tables can and do give up to 37 or more different types of what is basically the same job.
Logistically, this is termed a ******" (Gee, I hope the filter catches that one). such situations are crushingly expensive in the real-world, because time=money, and every pound of cargo (every kilo) is expensive-you can only abstract so far before it becomes ridiculous. (the aforementioned AC/5 or 10 with twenty some odd different canon calibers...)
but it doesn't fit with the Aesthetic of uniqueness, nor does it work with the random-unit-generation mechanics that are a major part of the game's campaign structure, and by extension, storyline.
That's game mechanics.
There's another reason the stuff I wrote can't ever be incorporated into Battletech-the politics doesn't work in-game.
For the armies at their canon sizes to work, with the level of heroics they operate at, people like Liz and her folks simply can not afford to exist in the Canon universe. A battlemech Battalion has a combatant number about equal to an Infantry platoon. add in techs and it gets to almost-but-not-quite infantry company sized.
Battalions are capable of taking planets in the BTU.
Clan Clusters have teh same personnel shortage. The only way this works, is politics and population sentiment. A good parallel would be if the U.S. conquered Iraq in 2002 using only a single regiment with an attached wing of fighters, and were able to secure and occupy the country with that tiny force,rather than the multiple divisions it ACTUALLY took.
Politically in canon, then, the general populace of the Inner Sphere (and Clan Homeworlds, and everythign in between) is almost obsessively apathetic and submissive to a point that would be unrealistic even in the most oppressive real-world nations.
Kowloon, as written, isn't.
This poses a serious problem with the Canon, if they were, as written by me, brought into the Canon. The problem being that it highlights a 'gap' that's been part of the setting for decades in real-time, it throws a monkeywrench in the whole thing, a sort of de-balancer that would require the powers that be to concoct or expand on potential equivalents in EVERY one of the Great Houses, and come up with some similarity minority among each of the SUCCESSFUL Clans.
which tosses the aesthetic of the lone 'mechwarrior hero right on it's ear. That esthetic is vitally important to the popularity and longevity of the game itself-Battletech may be written by westerners, it may be a game developed in America and Western Europe, but the core of it is the Japanese anime 'Mecha' shows-and I mean all the way back to Robot Boy, through Gundam 0079, Macross, etc. etc.
and it's a key part of the setting. What I wrote, meshes...poorly with that, moreso if it gets the level of attention necessary to fit into the broader story without disrupting it. in the fan-fics, I've tried (at least, in the later cycles of them) to make the adjustments to fit, to lampshade the logical inconsistencies, and to incorporate explanations of WHY the rest of the galaxy is the way it is, while Kowloon (and later Arluna) are the way THEY are within it.
but incorporation into the broader Canon would be rather more difficult, esp. if you want to preserve the elements that have kept the franchise successful for as long as it has been successful. (and believe me, we have players that weren't even born when the Clan Invasion was new, we have members of the writing and development team who are YOUNGER than the game. It's successful beyond all normal predictions and all common sense projections.)
The final nail for me, is a matter of 'where and how does this work'. Liz wouldn't make a ripple in the Free Worlds League, she wouldn't survive long enough to be interesting in the Draconis Combine, she'd be in a re-education center by the age of 10 in teh CapCon. In Davion space she'd get too big, too fast-she'd literally eclipse the most important domestic elements there just on how she does her business. The only way the Kowloon stories end up working and being interesting, is if she's Lyran, and they're Lyrans, or in the Lyran Commonwealth, because only there, can you have the necessary in-built conflicts while still allowing them to 'do their thing' without overturning the whole dinner table.
The national character of the Lyrans works, because there, the 'loonies are at a contrast that is visible, without being overwhelming. The Lyrans make the right mistakes, mistakes the Davions don't, and the others wouldn't, they have just enough of the kind of economic focus that her approach is feasible without being over-the-top.
see, Liz in the Free Worlds would be just another separatist. In Davion space, she'd be another impoverished broken-wheel baron, in the CapCon she'd be either an integral part of, or a declared enemy of, the State, in the Combine, she'd be executed.
-
I know... :-\ but just the same I want you to know there are some of us, well who love this group of Loonies!!
Still would like to see some more focus on the "difference" of ammo, etc.., maybe it just a small group of us, but still....
But then sitting in my old rocking chair,yelling at them young whippersnapper in the protomech armor running down the street. Oh well
-
Battalions are capable of taking planets in the BTU.
sort of, many if not most planets have a population in the 3-8 million range, 2-4 large cities with decent infrastructure, 1-2 large industries and 1 spaceport
so all you need in most cases is take the spaceport and the mil bases or industrial sites and everything worth taking is under control
to actually occupy a planet like this will need the commitment of 5-7 infantry regiments and at least a armor battalion for each regiment
so yeah you can hop in, smash and grab, if successful you get reinforced and are off the planet in a couple months
if not, you run like hell for the dropships
-
sort of, many if not most planets have a population in the 3-8 million range, 2-4 large cities with decent infrastructure, 1-2 large industries and 1 spaceport
so all you need in most cases is take the spaceport and the mil bases or industrial sites and everything worth taking is under control
to actually occupy a planet like this will need the commitment of 5-7 infantry regiments and at least a armor battalion for each regiment
so yeah you can hop in, smash and grab, if successful you get reinforced and are off the planet in a couple months
if not, you run like hell for the dropships
The entire clan invasion disputes this.
-
i've often figured that we haven't been getting the full story in regards to planetary militias.
i imagine you probably do have several regiments of infantry.. probably foot infantry with basic flak vests and rifles for the most part. maybe some light non-combat vehicles like trucks and jeeps to move them around. and probably all 'weekend warriors' like today's national guard.
if they have combat vehicles, it would probably be stuff made using support vee rules and fairly lightweight.
these kinds of units, if mobilized in time, can make a world harder to take (explaining why most attacks seem to try to avoid detection until the last minute, and try to quickly gain control) but they'd basically be 'invisible' in regards to mech level fighting. especially since they'd be spread out over a world fairly thinly once mobilized.
-
The battletech universe has been wishy washy about support units over the years. On the one side we'll get references to a small group of mechs taking an holding a planet with no support. On the other side we'll get mentions of vast conventional forces, even competing armies of conventional troops on the same planet. The clans though lie at the extreme end of the low side, as we have an actual count of how many warrior caste forces they actually have, and a mention that even their lowest unlisted planetary militia and police units still count towards that total. There arguably aren't enough clan warriors among all the clans to keep the peace over one conquered world, much less an entire occupation zone.
For my part I assume the clans employ local militia to keep order on their conquered worlds, even though it's actually contrary to certain points in the text.
-
a lot of the problem has to do with the nature of BT militaries vs. so-called 'realistic' ones, for instance with Kowloon, I made the decision early on to cut the variety of specific designs filling the same role. It was a basic mechanical engineering thing-50mm guns don't fire 20mm shells very well, or 100mm shells at all. (the sheer quantity of bore-sizes, not even limited by manufacturer or model, in the TRO's for something as simple as AC-10 weapons...) I was applying real-world economics to a setting that was and is decidedly heroic fantasy, and basing my decision tree on real-world history. (The German Army in 1940 had literally dozens of different, non-compatible, 'Standard' 8mm rifle rounds in their inventory-same bore size (Roughly) but it meant that there was a real possibility that your infantry company equipped with Mausers would find their next ammo shipment was ammunition for Steyr-Mannlichers. The 8x57 Mauser cartridge is rimless and the shell has a different diameter from the 8x56R cartridge used by Austria, Hungary, Romania...and there were two versions of the Mauser cartridge-the 7.92x57mmS, and the J-their bullets were different diameters, one was pointed, the other a rounded off cylinder...) Simplifying to a standard ammunition means needing fewer warehouses and getting more per tonne from the same factory.
The problem is, Canon relies heavily on 'Variety'. In a given CANON formation of 36 'mechs, (a battalion) the tables can and do give up to 37 or more different types of what is basically the same job.
Logistically, this is termed a ******" (Gee, I hope the filter catches that one). such situations are crushingly expensive in the real-world, because time=money, and every pound of cargo (every kilo) is expensive-you can only abstract so far before it becomes ridiculous. (the aforementioned AC/5 or 10 with twenty some odd different canon calibers...)
but it doesn't fit with the Aesthetic of uniqueness, nor does it work with the random-unit-generation mechanics that are a major part of the game's campaign structure, and by extension, storyline.
That's game mechanics.
There's another reason the stuff I wrote can't ever be incorporated into Battletech-the politics doesn't work in-game.
For the armies at their canon sizes to work, with the level of heroics they operate at, people like Liz and her folks simply can not afford to exist in the Canon universe. A battlemech Battalion has a combatant number about equal to an Infantry platoon. add in techs and it gets to almost-but-not-quite infantry company sized.
Battalions are capable of taking planets in the BTU.
Clan Clusters have teh same personnel shortage. The only way this works, is politics and population sentiment. A good parallel would be if the U.S. conquered Iraq in 2002 using only a single regiment with an attached wing of fighters, and were able to secure and occupy the country with that tiny force,rather than the multiple divisions it ACTUALLY took.
Politically in canon, then, the general populace of the Inner Sphere (and Clan Homeworlds, and everythign in between) is almost obsessively apathetic and submissive to a point that would be unrealistic even in the most oppressive real-world nations.
Kowloon, as written, isn't.
This poses a serious problem with the Canon, if they were, as written by me, brought into the Canon. The problem being that it highlights a 'gap' that's been part of the setting for decades in real-time, it throws a monkeywrench in the whole thing, a sort of de-balancer that would require the powers that be to concoct or expand on potential equivalents in EVERY one of the Great Houses, and come up with some similarity minority among each of the SUCCESSFUL Clans.
which tosses the aesthetic of the lone 'mechwarrior hero right on it's ear. That esthetic is vitally important to the popularity and longevity of the game itself-Battletech may be written by westerners, it may be a game developed in America and Western Europe, but the core of it is the Japanese anime 'Mecha' shows-and I mean all the way back to Robot Boy, through Gundam 0079, Macross, etc. etc.
and it's a key part of the setting. What I wrote, meshes...poorly with that, moreso if it gets the level of attention necessary to fit into the broader story without disrupting it. in the fan-fics, I've tried (at least, in the later cycles of them) to make the adjustments to fit, to lampshade the logical inconsistencies, and to incorporate explanations of WHY the rest of the galaxy is the way it is, while Kowloon (and later Arluna) are the way THEY are within it.
but incorporation into the broader Canon would be rather more difficult, esp. if you want to preserve the elements that have kept the franchise successful for as long as it has been successful. (and believe me, we have players that weren't even born when the Clan Invasion was new, we have members of the writing and development team who are YOUNGER than the game. It's successful beyond all normal predictions and all common sense projections.)
The final nail for me, is a matter of 'where and how does this work'. Liz wouldn't make a ripple in the Free Worlds League, she wouldn't survive long enough to be interesting in the Draconis Combine, she'd be in a re-education center by the age of 10 in teh CapCon. In Davion space she'd get too big, too fast-she'd literally eclipse the most important domestic elements there just on how she does her business. The only way the Kowloon stories end up working and being interesting, is if she's Lyran, and they're Lyrans, or in the Lyran Commonwealth, because only there, can you have the necessary in-built conflicts while still allowing them to 'do their thing' without overturning the whole dinner table.
The national character of the Lyrans works, because there, the 'loonies are at a contrast that is visible, without being overwhelming. The Lyrans make the right mistakes, mistakes the Davions don't, and the others wouldn't, they have just enough of the kind of economic focus that her approach is feasible without being over-the-top.
see, Liz in the Free Worlds would be just another separatist. In Davion space, she'd be another impoverished broken-wheel baron, in the CapCon she'd be either an integral part of, or a declared enemy of, the State, in the Combine, she'd be executed.
As an interesting side note I did some VERY rough calcs and assuming that you were spending 1 % of your GDP (regardless of house) Forces were 20 % of what was possible even when factoring in payroll and wear and tear. This was factoring in training and all support costs including warships. To be honest these were VERY rough and a lot of WAGs were made based on a per capita income and a 10% tax rate.
-
I've recently started to get the itch to mess around in the Ngoverse setting (Blame Liam's_Ghost and Gio for it...) but there's a tonne of rust on those old mechanisms.
not saying there's one coming, but, well, there might be.
-
Hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes by posting here, but when it comes to planetary occupation, I think Jorah Mormont put it best when he said “The common people pray for rain, healthy children, and a summer that never ends. It is no matter to them if the High Lords play their Game of Thrones, so long as they are left in peace. They never are."
If you live on a boarder world, you live under the knowledge that, any day, the people from the other side of that boarder might come raining down out of the sky. But while flags, uniforms, anthems and the face on money and stamps may change, the chances are life itself will continue on as before. The same people as before will deliver your mail, take away your trash, and administer your town. You'll shop in the same stores, send your children to the same schools, and live in the same house, while you wait to see if the guys who were in charge before come back. If not, life goes on, mainly on inertia.
-
The idea that the common folk just endeavor to go about their lives gets pretty thin in spots (especially when taking into account the radical changes that come with going from, say, Capellan to Davion or davion to Capellan). But it's also probably the explanation that's going to fit the canon best.
-
The idea that the common folk just endeavor to go about their lives gets pretty thin in spots (especially when taking into account the radical changes that come with going from, say, Capellan to Davion or davion to Capellan). But it's also probably the explanation that's going to fit the canon best.
Yeah, but I just can't shake the mental image of some poor government clerk who's been told to find 4-million new text books immediately because his nation's just taken some random planet and they need to get the school kids there learning the correct history of the Inner Sphere, stat!
Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside >:D
-
Welcome to 1984 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
I'm sure textbook companies have warehouses full of textbooks covering every possible permutation of allegiance on every boarder world. The real reason for the Inner Sphere's dysfunctional economy revealed!
-
I'm sure textbook companies have warehouses full of textbooks covering every possible permutation of allegiance on every boarder world. The real reason for the Inner Sphere's dysfunctional economy revealed!
I have this mental image of a giant warehouse, with a line running down the middle. On one side, marked 'House Davion', is completely empty, while the other, marked “House Liao', is stacked floor-to-ceiling with boxes of books, ready to be switched over come the next invasion.
(http://i.imgur.com/b5Jf9r3.png?1)
-
I've recently started to get the itch to mess around in the Ngoverse setting (Blame Liam's_Ghost and Gio for it...) but there's a tonne of rust on those old mechanisms.
not saying there's one coming, but, well, there might be.
And that rust is why I'm writing Trek stuff these days. Had the same issue with the Battletech stuff.
-
in regards to miltiia and the unbeleivability of the Kowloon militia..
an illustration of why even using Peice of Junk gear makes a realistic militia size difficult to fit into the setting..
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=48860.0
yes that is a combined arms mechanized Battalion fit into the same points value as a medium-heavy mech company.
i'll admit it's not very 'Loonie.. it has no artillery for example.. but even using Scorpion tanks and infantry the resulting swarm of units hits way harder than it looks.
of course, if i had a decent ultra light artillery carrier i'd find a way to fit artillery into this unit. :)
-
<snip>
yes that is a combined arms mechanized Battalion fit into the same points value as a medium-heavy mech company.
i'll admit it's not very 'Loonie.. it has no artillery for example.. but even using Scorpion tanks and infantry the resulting swarm of units hits way harder than it looks.
of course, if i had a decent ultra light artillery carrier i'd find a way to fit artillery into this unit. :)
I'm sore you can get something to fit on a Saladin, like THESE (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=48899.0)
-
I'm sore you can get something to fit on a Saladin, like THESE (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=48899.0)
or a Hetzer (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=48900.0)
-
actually i'd prefer canon ones sure it's a bit of munchkinism to fit so much into one force, but at least it can be canon munchkinism.. :)
-
I'm sore you can get something to fit on a Saladin, like THESE (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=48899.0)
yep my favorite way is to keep using the LRM carrier chassis,
you can do 2 thumpers/arrows or even a long tom
-
in regards to miltiia and the unbeleivability of the Kowloon militia..
an illustration of why even using Peice of Junk gear makes a realistic militia size difficult to fit into the setting..
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=48860.0
yes that is a combined arms mechanized Battalion fit into the same points value as a medium-heavy mech company.
i'll admit it's not very 'Loonie.. it has no artillery for example.. but even using Scorpion tanks and infantry the resulting swarm of units hits way harder than it looks.
of course, if i had a decent ultra light artillery carrier i'd find a way to fit artillery into this unit. :)
and it gets worse if you do it by Cbills. Yes I have done it, junk tech militia vrs 3050+ tech force. I think the armored vehicle was a Scorpion knockoff with multi mods (everything from tank to missile carrier to AFV to support models)
-
yep my favorite way is to keep using the LRM carrier chassis,
you can do 2 thumpers/arrows or even a long tom
I chose two chassis that had a bit more mobility.
-
yeah
cant find it now but I had several lighter models
wanted specifically for them to fit into light vehicle
bays because I was fascinated by the Seeker as a
platform for a small sneak and peek unit
-
Reposted: Standing Against the Tide (Ngo v2, 3067)
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=49455.0 (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=49455.0)
-
And we'll add Voluntary Relocation to the queue, another v2, I think.
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=49462.0
Next couple up are long ones, 140+ pages each in Word. That's going to take me a while to post, I'll probably do Elevation tomorrow, and Temples of Lady Liberty next.
-
*bump*
Well with the 4.0 stories coming out, I guess they need indexing, and I'm wondering which 3.0 stories are still canon and relevant to 4.0?
EDIT: I wonder what retcons are gonna happen with the Man Come Around due to well in intervening years with the publication of Liberation of Terra Volume I?
I guess the 171st was part of the 4th Army Group, 4th Army, part of the 5th Volunteer Brigade.
Why do I have a feeling Victor intentionally left out what happened on Elbar, when writing LoT: Volume 1 [Ngoverse edition]?
-
*bump*
Well with the 4.0 stories coming out, I guess they need indexing, and I'm wondering which 3.0 stories are still canon and relevant to 4.0?
The events of the Star League-era stories of that timeline, Kowloon Rising, A Pound of Flesh, and When the Man Comes Around, are constantly referenced in the 4.0 stories. Other than that, I would assume that the 4.0 stories overwrite the 3.0 as the ‘canon’ version of events as Cannonshop moves through the relevant timeframes. (Remember, Unsuitable was written eight years ago, and his approach to these characters and stories has changed a lot over all that time.)
EDIT: I wonder what retcons are gonna happen with the Man Come Around due to well in intervening years with the publication of Liberation of Terra Volume I?
I guess the 171st was part of the 4th Army Group, 4th Army, part of the 5th Volunteer Brigade.
Why do I have a feeling Victor intentionally left out what happened on Elbar, when writing LoT: Volume 1 [Ngoverse edition]?
I doubt Cannonshop will actively make retcons to those stories — he generally prefers to keep moving forward, rather than looking back to ‘fix’ things. Out-of-universe, the atrocities of Elbar are a mark distinguishing between canon and Ngo-verse. In canon, Elbar was always a Davion world, never actually part of the Hegemony or occupied by the RWR material; in the Ngo-verse, it was the site of some of the most hideous atrocities of the Civil War — on both sides.
In canon, Victor and his study of the Amaris Civil War never mentioned Elbar because it was never contested and there was nothing to mention. In the Ngo-verse, there’s no guarantee that Victor will survive to ever write that study, much less try to gloss over the Elbar campaign. Remember, Cannonshop is not afraid to kill viewpoint characters, even major canonical ones.
-
Out-of-universe, the atrocities of Elbar are a mark distinguishing between canon and Ngo-verse. In canon, Elbar was always a Davion world, never actually part of the Hegemony or occupied by the RWR material; in the Ngo-verse, it was the site of some of the most hideous atrocities of the Civil War — on both sides.
In canon, Victor and his study of the Amaris Civil War never mentioned Elbar because it was never contested and there was nothing to mention. In the Ngo-verse, there’s no guarantee that Victor will survive to ever write that study, much less try to gloss over the Elbar campaign. Remember, Cannonshop is not afraid to kill viewpoint characters, even major canonical ones.
Page 135 of Volume 1 mentions Elbar and three other joint worlds being liberated by the Fourth Army, it was a very minor campaign, that last a few weeks. Then again Kerensky did destroy a lot of records including the 171st IIRC, then again whoever is authoring this in-universe if they did find secondary sources about the Elbar atrocities and well 'Elbar Toothpicks', would probably told not to publish them, in effort to discredit the history of Kowloon, or not to given Devlin more bad news about them. The only minor retcon in universe really would it being in 2772 instead of '78.
Still thanks for figuring what few stories are still relevant, overall.
-
In canon, Elbar was always a Davion world, never actually part of the Hegemony or occupied by the RWR material
Not true. Elbar was jointly controlled by the Hegemony and Federated Suns before the coup, and the Rim Worlds seized it during the coup. It was among the first worlds liberated when the SLDF began their assault on the Hegemony. (all this from the Liberation of Terra: I sourcebook)
-
sounds like there is plenty of room to fudge things and fit it into his setting while preserving the CGL material. just move the dates up a few years, and treat it as "the real story" that gets glossed over in the official records of the war.
-
Been away for quite some time, and of late returning to things fondly remembered. Wondering if any of the pending re-posts (although not so close to canon these days) will finish being brought back...?
-
Not true. Elbar was jointly controlled by the Hegemony and Federated Suns before the coup, and the Rim Worlds seized it during the coup. It was among the first worlds liberated when the SLDF began their assault on the Hegemony. (all this from the Liberation of Terra: I sourcebook)
Hmm. Is there any mention of Elbar involved in the Amaris War -before- this? Because LOT1 was published well after Cannonshop wrote about "Elbar Toothpicks"...
Been away for quite some time, and of late returning to things fondly remembered. Wondering if any of the pending re-posts (although not so close to canon these days) will finish being brought back...?
Hmmm, where did I leave off....
-
Hmm. Is there any mention of Elbar involved in the Amaris War -before- this? Because LOT1 was published well after Cannonshop wrote about "Elbar Toothpicks"...
Hmmm, where did I leave off....
oddly enough, I can't claim creation on Elbar, it was actually one of the Authors, working with the GM in an online Fancouncil game, because we needed an atrocity site to cite.
after that, things kinda steamrolled. I'm pretty sure th e actual 'canon' reference was a lot cleaner, nicer, and less brutal and uncivilized t han what came out of MY head.
-
any chance we can get the index updated with the 'Ngoverse v.4.0' threads? i found them searching for this thread, and while i think i've got the order sorted out, i'm not 100% sure.
-
I poke my nose in, and am shocked.
what's shocking me?
I started most of those stories back in 2003 or so (some even EARLIER).
I'm kinda shocked anyone's still reading them. that anyone remembers them.
Some, were better than others. I even revisited them a few years ago, brushed off the rust, restarted them, rewrote them.
to be honest, I think I enjoy reading the collaborations I did with the setting, the 'alternate history' versions better in many ways, than I do the originals, or the reworks. Not all, mind, I rather think the FGC version's are probably some of the stronger stories. (This in spite of shamelessly using canon characters in ways their creators would be disgusted by, yo.)
there are things I think would be interesting, that I can't do for myself.
like pictures. Or maybe getting it worked into one of the fan-made collections, or something. Maybe see what people would do, taking it and running with it-what people would do with some of the ideas.
alas, my stuff's probably not that good.
-
alas, my stuff's probably not that good.
I call bullshit, the reason so many go back and read and reread your stuff is because its so good, better than a bunch of canon stuff
we want more Loonies too!
-
Cannonshop
I :smitten: your stories, but old and new, FGC ones for sure.
Liz both scaries me and makes me want to follow her and the rest of the Kowloonese. Your take on Kowloon is what part of me wants to see from more planets in battletech having the ability to make their own serious yet customized to their needs military hardware.
-
Personally I'm using the Kolwoon Planetary Militia in my 3140's Alpha Strike forces. My Lyrans getting 400PV of 'lonie infantry, towed artillery, armor*, and VTOLs. Fluffed as being part of an ErztazKampfGrupp throw together to help but more bodies on the frontlines in an LCAF facing hostilities on 6 fronts..
*had to give them Goblins though, rather than custom Rommel APC's. On the otherhand, their vehicle component is two companies strong...most of them Goblin's.
i'm still tying to decide what Militia/2nd line force to assign the 600pv mech force to.
-
Personally I'm using the Kolwoon Planetary Militia in my 3140's Alpha Strike forces. My Lyrans getting 400PV of 'lonie infantry, towed artillery, armor*, and VTOLs. Fluffed as being part of an ErztazKampfGrupp throw together to help but more bodies on the frontlines in an LCAF facing hostilities on 6 fronts..
*had to give them Goblins though, rather than custom Rommel APC's. On the otherhand, their vehicle component is two companies strong...most of them Goblin's.
i'm still tying to decide what Militia/2nd line force to assign the 600pv mech force to.
hm, well, let's see....it's the 3140s. If we follow the original Kowloonese pattern, their 'mechs are going to be abusively average designs in the medium to fast-heavy range, probably closer to 3020's era stuff, with poor-to-average pilots. (aka "cannon fodder 'mechs").
not sure you could GET 600 points out of them but it's possible, i suppose.
alternatively, you could assign them as adjuncts to an established LCAF formation in the area, and the best choice in that case, would be one of the MTM units. The toughest part of the mix, is balancing the unit.
If you followed the setup from the Fan Council games, you'd find that there were some hard limits I set on what equipment the Kowloonese could have in their table- I recall limiting them severely on Assault 'mechs (unmodified 12 on the assignment table required) and limited the types available to some real 'junkers'. The table for mediums was slightly better, thanks to the presence of factories in the theater producing a couple of good 50 tonners (the Enfield, which sat on the 5/6/7 position, the Steiner Griffin from 3025 at the 4 and 8, the 2H Shadowhawk at the 2/3, the Bushwhacker at the 9, 10, and 11 (variants), and I can't remember the 12. I think it was some kind of canon energy boat 50 tonner built in the theater.) The "Light" table, if I remember, were a lot of 3025 bug 'mechs with something modern way up on the 12, while the "Heavy" table was just variants of the Blackhawk-KU.
you know, to simplify logistics, because I was actually thinking that way even in that game, and I could see the Ngos continuing to insist on as much 'parts commonality' as possible to maximize every kilogram of shipping space.
In general terms, the Kowloonese would tend to field 'fast' heavies with strong mediums, and keep the scouting operations to conventional assets, while completely ignoring the 'static defense' concepts (aka no tanks slower than 4/6, lots of VTOLs at 10/15, and a doctrine of the best defense being a fast and manueverable offense, supported by heavy artillery in, as the coneheads used to say, "Mass Quantities" thanks to efficiencies in shipping and logistics.)
-
Doing the mechs as a different, more traditional lyran unit. i'm working of the idea that the Lyran's started throwing together formations akin to the Davion 'Light Combat Teams'.. over sized regiments made with combined arms. only less standardized than the davion LCT's, and made by drawing off militia units. so a battalion of mechs from one militia, a couple battalions of tanks and infantry from another militia, etc each theater could probably put out one or two such forces without weakening the defenses of each world, and it would give them some extra units to throw at the Falcons and Wolves, or to do efforts in the former ROTS while the big name units fight the Clans.
the 1000pv force i've worked up is a kind of cross section of one such unit: a 600pv very heavy mech company in stereotypically lyran fashion (8 assaults, 2 mediums, 2 lights*) with a platoon of BA attached, paired with a 400pv battalion of conventional troops (20 medium tanks, 4 light VTOL's, 2 companies Motorized Heavy infantry, and a battery of towed artillery.)
if you want i can create a thread in the Non-canon units section with specific details, where stuff like unit designations and commander names and such can be hashed out. :)
*just sorta ended up that way.. i don;t have much that is recognizably lyran that isn't a fairly heavy mech..
-
I will answer Yes please
-
Cannonshop, you really did some cool work with your stories and they where fun to read. Lizzy was a bitch in different versions and fun to read about her being nasty to everyone.
-
lets be fair. Liz is a bitch in all the versions. the variation is largely how blatant she is about it.
and this is the "Ngoverse 4.0" threads, in as close to order as i can figure out.. probably got at least one wrong.
"How to you apologize to THEM": a Elizabeth Ngo featurette (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=50839.0;all)
Nogoverse 4.0: "Her Wings" (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=51188.msg1181058#msg1181058)
Ngoverse 4.0: "Her Boots" (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=51330.msg1184324#msg1184324)
Ngoverse 4.0: "The Watery Silence" (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=51513.msg1188541#msg1188541)
Ngoverse 4.0: "The Politics of Compromise" (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=51818.msg1195846#msg1195846)
Ngoverse 4.0: "Spreading Darkness" (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=51991.msg1199744#msg1199744)
Ngoverse 4.0: "Cool Wind" (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=52196.msg1203781#msg1203781)
Ngoverse 4.0: "Black Jumpsails" (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=52552.msg1212373#msg1212373)
honestly i' hope the 4.0 version gets more stuff.. largely because he's set up a pretty interesting AU with the changes that have occurred, and the late jihad era and beyond ought to be really interesting with them in play.
-
I would simply love to inflict them on a raiding enemy 😁
-
I will answer Yes please
here you go..
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=62996.0
still working on writing up the kowloon sections for the infantry and armor.. but for now you can critique and help build the mech component of the AS force.
edit: kowloon stuff is up.
-
You should probably grab a Coast Guards unit for that too, in most versions of Ngo'verse/Kowloon, they like to 'lean on' air assets as a substitute for variation or high technology, and being deeply distrustful of LCAF/LAAF logistics command, they tend to ship their own supplies; and those roles are mostly handled by the Kowloon Coast Guards, as are "Special forces" elements. (usually squad-deployed infantry w/light VTOLs like license built Martens or ferret Infantry variant)
typical KCG aviation units would be "hotrod" copies of the Saber or Slayer aerofighters. aka fighters with either great speed and deep fuel tanks, or fighters with great speed and deep fuel tanks that also have thick armor.
most versions the light fighters predominate for ground support missions and are used as 'bomb trucks', leaving the air superiority mission for House Regulars unless it's a primarily Kowloonese force out on the periphery of the LA itself (or there's enough 'wet' to bring an actual wet-naval presence.)
-
to be honest i have so little hands on experience wit hthe space side of the game, much less the Alpha Strike version, that i've been ignoring it for the most part. doesn't help that i've got only minimal figures for it.. (somewhere i have a Slayer, Riever, and Seydlitz, and that's pretty much it.)
-
to be honest i have so little hands on experience wit hthe space side of the game, much less the Alpha Strike version, that i've been ignoring it for the most part. doesn't help that i've got only minimal figures for it.. (somewhere i have a Slayer, Riever, and Seydlitz, and that's pretty much it.)
megamek can be your friend there-if it's still going, I actually TESTED Kowloonese doctrine during the '62 FGC, and while it took a bit of effort to get a handle on the commands, the methods gelled pretty quickly-on the 'ground' map (where figures interact), the faster you go, the bigger your turn radius, meaning you really do have to plan out your moves mostly ahead of time.
The upside being that when they're in the 'point value' of a given force, you can simulate a slightly inferior ground force, but the force multiplier of having air support can be quite powerful. doing it as an integrated 'core strategy' is tricky, but imho, worth it. (you can't underestimate the impact that putting bombs on the other guy's most expensive units has, or laying a strafing run every couple turns.)
-
hard to get practice with aerospace stuff in when your mostly against the bot and they only just now got aero stuff (sorta) working right with the it. *shrug*
alpha strike uses an abstract version anyway.
currently these are as much an exercise in modelling as they are force building.. no one around here to play sadly (gotta travel about an hour to find the nearest game store that occasionally runs stuff.. and they do BT and AS only rarely)
-
So, to add to the index:
To Stand Before The Archon (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=67490.0) (Victor/Victoria AU)
Teaser For A Proposed ... Thing (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=67637.0) (Hunted Tribes continuation)
Teaser thread 2 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=68259.0)
Copeland Supply, Salvage, and Resale (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=63369.0) HT side-story by cawest
The Administrator (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=68584.0) - Admiral Sharon Ngo
The Advisor (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=69139.0)
The Absolute Zero (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=69209.0)
Adventures of the Beer Keg Of Science! (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=69206.0) - by GiovanniBlasini, related story
-
Found this while poking around the 'net, is this a copy of some of your work, @Cannonshop?
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1608495/1/ConsequencesThe-Business-End
-
Found this while poking around the 'net, is this a copy of some of your work, @Cannonshop?
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1608495/1/ConsequencesThe-Business-End
That probably is two stories from the first published version.
-
Got a random question — I’ve been debating what to paint up all the new omnis I just acquired, so I wondered and haven’t found: what unit was Nathan Roshak from?
-
Got a random question — I’ve been debating what to paint up all the new omnis I just acquired, so I wondered and haven’t found: what unit was Nathan Roshak from?
Prior to winning his bloodname, he served in the 2nd Falcon Jaegers. I'd presume if you're looking for painting advice, to start with the Delta or Iota galaxy colors (depending on time period.)
-
Prior to winning his bloodname, he served in the 2nd Falcon Jaegers. I'd presume if you're looking for painting advice, to start with the Delta or Iota galaxy colors (depending on time period.)
OK, cool. I'd found a reference to Iota but I don't recall where Delta was mentioned. But the schemes are close enough I can fudge it.
What was his preferred 'mech?
-
OK, cool. I'd found a reference to Iota but I don't recall where Delta was mentioned. But the schemes are close enough I can fudge it.
What was his preferred 'mech?
Summoner class. He drove a Turkina for a short time, in one of the storylines, but traded it in to get back in a Summoner. something about speed and handling.
-
Summoner class. He drove a Turkina for a short time, in one of the storylines, but traded it in to get back in a Summoner. something about speed and handling.
Darn. I have Hellbringers and Timber Wolves but no Summoners from the new set. Have to see if I have a metal one.
(ETA: I have one, but it's already painted up for my OpFor Trinary. Dang.)
(OpFor Trinary currently consists of Supernova, Turkina, Dire Wolf, Bane, Timber Wolf, Summoner, Hellbringer, Linebacker, Adder, Ice Ferret. Haven't actually worked on it in a while, I should actually try to complete it. I can easily add a Gargoyle and Nova with the metal I have on hand... and a Nova-C... Need to pick out a few more. I think I have a couple of Kit Fox laying around somewhere....)
-
So I’ve just spent the past day and half reading most of the main timeline stuff and I have to say I’ve loved it.
The only thing I’m sad about is that we don’t see more or the JF attempted raid of Kowloon, or more specifically the aftermath and how their enclave works. In particularly with regards to Liz’s utter hate of them.
Also Shel was an amazing character and I want to see more of her.
-
I dare say you haven't read enough of Cannonshop's stuff yet... ^-^
-
So I’ve just spent the past day and half reading most of the main timeline stuff and I have to say I’ve loved it.
The only thing I’m sad about is that we don’t see more or the JF attempted raid of Kowloon, or more specifically the aftermath and how their enclave works. In particularly with regards to Liz’s utter hate of them.
Also Shel was an amazing character and I want to see more of her.
:thumbsup: only 36 hours of solid reading..
Liz and then Amanda and Sharon Ngo who are down right scary
:smitten:
Trust me with Cannonshop there will be more.. There will be more right... :beer: :bow:
-
One can only hope... :smitten:
-
Yeah, real shame so much of it has gone missing.
-
Yeah, real shame so much of it has gone missing.
Even today, there is Lostech. Most who could remember it are gone now, and those of us who are still here can't remember all of it even on our best days.
-
Yeah, real shame so much of it has gone missing.
I have the following Cannonshop stories saved:
Title Date Posted In-story Date
Late Harvest 28/07/2004 12/01/3053
Elevation 02/08/2004 3130
A Civil Affair part 2 30/11/2004 02/07/3136
Kowloon Overview 29/09/2006 (unsure)
For the Liberty of Others 05/10/2006 01/01/3075
Sweetness and Light 09/01/2007 23/08/3081
For the Good of the Nation 15/01/2007 21/11/3081
For Home and People 18/02/2007 19/02/3082
My Native Land 23/03/2007 15/02/3087
Sing Songs of Unity 15/04/2007 11/12/3087
In Hell 07/06/2007 (unsure)
Show Me How it Hurts 01/08/2007 08/07/3086
The Tools of Ngo 07/10/2007 (unsure)
Stoke the Flame of the Empire 03/12/2007 June 3097
A Forest 10/12/2007 11/12/3089
In Blue 27/01/2008 04/01/3097
Flyover Country 26/02/2008 3048
Blood of my Motherland 14/05/2008 3059
I think the first three are from the v2.0 Ngo-verse, and the rest from v3.0
-
Seems like a few of those are missing from the reposts here. Would you be willing to share?
-
I know I posted a few things a while back. Let me see if I can dig them up.
-
OK, what I've been able to find of CS' original postings and my reposts on this forum so far:
A Civil Affair https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/a-civil-affair-ngo-verse-classic-by-cannonshop-repost/
Voluntary Relocation https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/voluntary-relocation-ngoverse-v3-original-by-cannonshop/
Standing Against the Tide https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/standing-against-the-tide-ngoverse-v2-original-by-cannonshop/
Elevation https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/elevation-ngoverse-v2-original-by-cannonshop/
Temples of Lady Liberty https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/temples-of-lady-liberty-ngo-verse-v2-by-cannonshop/
---------
A Sickness 2/29/2012 https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/a-sickness-(ngoversefgc'62-91-tie-in)/
Adapting to Darkness 9/23/2015 https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/adapting-to-darkness-ngo-versedark-age-elements-from-earlier-material-in-use!/
How Do You Apologize to THEM? 1/24/2016 https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/for-valiran-an-elizabeth-ngo-short-feature-how-do-you-apologize-to-them/
Not Necessarily To Everyone's Taste 2/4/2016 https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/not-necessarily-to-everyone-s-taste-a-ngoverse-story/
Her Wings 2/15/2016 https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/her-wings-ngoverse-v-4-0/msg1181101/#msg1181101
Her Boots 2/24/2016 https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/ngoverse-v-4-0-her-boots/msg1185825/#msg1185825
The Watery Silence 3/7/2016 https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/ngoverse-4-0-the-watery-silence/
The Politics of Compromise 3/23/2016 https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/ngoverse-v-4-0-the-politics-of-compromise/msg1195998/#msg1195998
Spreading Darkness 4/1/2016 https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/ngoverse-v-4-0-spreading-darkness/
Cold Wind 4/10/2016 https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/ngoverse-v-4-0-cold-wind/
Black Jumpsails 5/3/2016 https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/ngoverse-v-4-0-black-jumpsails/
The Administrator 3/15/2020 https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/the-administrator/
The Advisor 4/26/2020 https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/the-advisor-ngoverse-the-administrator-setting/
The Absolute Zero 5/3/2020 https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/the-absolute-zero-ngoverse-the-administrator-setting/
The Silent Black Ocean 5/24/2021 https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/ngoverse-the-administrator-series-the-silent-black-ocean/
The Armada 5/31/2020 https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/ngoverse-the-administrator-setting-the-armada/
An Alternate Elizabeth 6/29/2020 https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/an-alternate-elizabeth-ngoverse-tangent-short/
Does it make you happy now? 7/11/2020 https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/does-it-make-you-happy-now-another-ngoverse-alternate-because-i-can-t-sleep/
The Wind at my Back, the Stars at my Feet 12/5/2020 https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/the-wind-at-my-back-the-stars-at-my-feet/
I Used To Dream 12/18/2020 https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/i-used-to-dream-alternate-ngoverse/
Important People 12/23/2020 https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/important-people-alternate-ngoverse/
War is a Grave 11/13/2021 https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/war-is-a-grave/
-
Seems like a few of those are missing from the reposts here. Would you be willing to share?
I'm happy to share, just need to find a bit of time & get myself organised.
-
Tag'd
-
I know there's some I've missed, like all the Orc Liz stories.... Anyone got links to them?
-
I know there's some I've missed, like all the Orc Liz stories.... Anyone got links to them?
There's only the one Orc-Liz story...
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/repostretitled-the-horde-returns-orcs-in-the-lyran-commonwealth/msg1749063/#msg1749063 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/repostretitled-the-horde-returns-orcs-in-the-lyran-commonwealth/msg1749063/#msg1749063)
I was mostly happy with this one, though I think on a rewrite I'd have to reconsider some major elements.
-
Ok, here is my list of 'favourited Cannonshop fics you haven't posted':
Part of 'The Administrator' series, you have missed one- between 'Absolute Zero' and 'The Silent Black Ocean' should be 'The Adjudicator' https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/the-adjudicator-ngoverse-the-administrator-series/
The standalone Ngo/Star Trek crossover: 'Something derived from somewhere else' https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/something-derived-from-somewhere-else/
EDIT:
Sequal to 'Important People, is 'You swore to carry on' https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/you-swore-to-carry-on/
Standalone 'To Stand before the Archon' https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/to-stand-before-the-archon/
MORE EDIT:
'Can you tell me where we start over'
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/can-you-tell-me-where-we-start-over/
and its sequal, Tribunals
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/silent-enim-inter-arma-tribunals/
-
There's only the one Orc-Liz story...
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/repostretitled-the-horde-returns-orcs-in-the-lyran-commonwealth/msg1749063/#msg1749063 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/repostretitled-the-horde-returns-orcs-in-the-lyran-commonwealth/msg1749063/#msg1749063)
I was mostly happy with this one, though I think on a rewrite I'd have to reconsider some major elements.
Any chance that's next? Please? 8)
-
I like the Horde
-
I left off about halfway through 'A Civil Affair', might as well finish it.
-
i understand its been awhile but i have a question. there are several Ngo stories and organizational outlines and force descriptions.
Kenyon
Melancholy second draft.
551st Panzergrenadier (LCAF 3076)
The Black Ants
45th Kowloon Infantry Brigade
A 'mech for Kowloon (Upgrade '94)
might anyone have these?
i also found several extra Cannonshop's works i had saved
Design a 'Mech for Kowloon!
Ngo Industries Problem Removal team Gold
Report: Kowloon Ground Forces Militia (Revision 3.0)
Build a 'mech for Kowloon (poll for Design a 'mech)
any info on these two?
3081 — Genesis — (re-post: pending)
3099 — Burial Plots (re-post: pending)
-
If you send me an email address, I will send a zip of my collection.
-
sent