BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
Off Topic and Technical Support => Off Topic => Topic started by: StoneRhino on 30 December 2014, 08:55:41
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Recently I picked up a starter box for the X-Wing game, as well as a box that included two elite tie fighters in it, but have yet to play it. I have seen some people playing it at the local shop, but I was wondering just how popular the game was, and what people think of it.
I have only read the quickstart rules, but I find the movement being decided and locked in without anyone seeing anything until it is revealed to be rather interesting. A simple double blind like system could either bring a BT game to a crawl or speed things up depending on the players. I wonder how it affects the time for an xwing game.
Within a few days of buying the starter box I find out that they have a larger scale game that has been out for a few months. Unfortunately, I heard nothing about it. My interest in xwing was light, but when I saw a starterbox for sale and on sale I decided to make a snap decision. The large scale game is more of what I was looking for, and seeing a single transport style ship for xwing weighing in at $50+ , and the size of it made me wonder if xwing is something I am going to be playing very long.
When it comes to the fleet scale game, I was frustrated after seeing it, but remembered that I and others in the local group purchased some BT warship minis. I am wondering how the fleet scale SW game compares to BT:Space battles. Down the road I might still pick up a starter box for SW fleet scale, but I am doubting that it is going to have that Battletech, love it and hate it, level of detail.
I'm wondering what others think of both of the games, and if possible how SW fleet compares to BT:Space.
With far to many minis that need to be painted, and the better then decent quality of the x-wing paint jobs, I am still on the fence regarding that aspect of the game. On one hand it is rather impersonal. On the other its a completely different world then the craptastic MWDA "prepainted" stuff. Then again, when you share a BT table with someone that has zero paint on his minis, even the craptastic MWDA paint jobs seem welcome. >:D
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There is a fleet scale game comming out for Star Wars called Armada. Don't know much about it, and how Battletech ships could fit in with it.
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Armada looks interesting, if only because I desire, no need to field a Super Star Destroyer at some point. Or create a campaign game with the rules.
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Well if quality of pre-painted ships with SW Armada is as good as it's with X-Wing there should not be any worries about that part. X-Wing ships from FFG are painted by hand so quality is much higher than with factory painted that WK has.
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I understand that RL was originally intended as the SW game, Interceptor was the fighter rules & Leviathan was the Fleet action rules but things fell threw with GL & FASA so they came up with their own background
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Ive seen the ships for Armada and they are very awesome looking, little bit larger then the Battletech ships. Little expensive but very awesome looking.
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Little expensive?!? :o
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Little expensive?!? :o
Way expensive. Which will hurt the game I think.
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I was really excited about armada until I saw the $100 price tag on the starter. I think I'll stick with X-wing. That's expensive enough.
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I was really excited about armada until I saw the $100 price tag on the starter. I think I'll stick with X-wing. That's expensive enough.
eehh...$100...NOT sold
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yeah 100 for a box set, pass. Plus 16 bucks for one mini?
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yeah 100 for a box set, pass. Plus 16 bucks for one mini?
Looked at the price of an unassembled and unpainted CBT mini lately? ;D
That's actually about the same you pay for an x-wing ship(cheaper online). If the Armada ships look as good then I'd say $16 is worth it. It's just that huge cost upfront they need to figure out how to get down. I do wonder how much of that is profit. Might be better for them in the long run to sell it as close to cost as possible.
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Some of the miniatures go for over $30.
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o-l a single Victory class is $27.49 but they have a Nebulon-B & Corellian Corvette for $13.99 each, I'd like those just for the model value. one error I noticed is that the Imperial fighter set has 2 of each except the Defender, that's not the right mix. There were never that many TIE Advanced or even TIE Interceptors. They should drop these 2 to 1 each (or at-least the Advanced) and add more regular TIEs or replace the regulars with TIE Defenders and have a separate pack with 8 regular TIEs
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I doubt any company that actually invests in TIE Interceptors/Advanced/Defenders will go for a 'proper' mix of them, as there'd be no way to justify the costs of producing molds that would make so few minis compared to anything else. You want a proper mix, you'll have to do it yourself, either by buying the proper packs, or grabbing single fighters somehow.
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I'm totally fine with having two bases of Advanced. They're cool ships and the Empire really needs something like them for balance. They just don't have anything like the X-Wing for the longest time in universe.
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I doubt any company that actually invests in TIE Interceptors/Advanced/Defenders will go for a 'proper' mix of them, as there'd be no way to justify the costs of producing molds that would make so few minis compared to anything else. You want a proper mix, you'll have to do it yourself, either by buying the proper packs, or grabbing single fighters somehow.
That's why I suggested replacing with the Defender as "other TIE" Pack and making an 8-pack of Regular TIEs a separate item, so players can buy as many as needed. the original loadout of the Imp Class SD was 3 squadrons of TIEs & 1 squadron of bombers. Later some (not all) SDs replaced 1 of it's TIE squadrons with Interceptors (the Elite unit) even in RotJ the Interceptor was rare, it was prevalent in the action because the Emperor was there with all of his elite units "It's a Trap!". the TIE Advanced never had a full production run and those handful produced were consigned to "test" units, usually on stations, and a few high ranking offices (Vader primarily) "too expensive" & "just going to get shot down anyway" - the Empire viewed its pilots as just so many bullets to fire at the enemy. "we'll recruit more". More TIE Defenders were built (than Advanced), when it was realized the massive advantage rebel pilots had over regular TIEs, but still no where near the numbers of even the Interceptors or Bombers.
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The Empire was all about Quantity has a quality all its own. Tie Fighters should be the bulk of there fighter force with Interceptors, Advanced, and Defenders being very rare.
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The price of the xwing minis, of the fighter size are about the price of an assault mech. I have yet to play so I don't know the normal mix of minis that people tend to field, but if you factor in the time it takes to paint a mini and the cost of the paints then the individual mini price for xwing isn't so bad. The MWDA minis were painted in the most horrendous manner possible. Few people could end up with such poorly painted minis on their own, and I say that as a horrible painter. If you consider the price of the mini and the amount someone would charge for a decent paint job, the cost of a BT mini would likely hit $30 with ease. Then there is the cost of the little cards that come with it, which I have to say are nicely done.
I hate the idea of not getting to paint the minis myself, but at the same time I know how slowly I get around to painting, and the quality is higher then what i would likely end up with. The table of an xwing game ends up with nicely painted minis no matter who owns them or what their skill level is when it comes to painting minis. There is no cringing at the sight of a friend's force that is bare metal, no cringing when he puts a bushwacker's foot down on the table (just the foot) and uses it as a mini. Nope, its just nicely painted, preassembled minis hitting the table.
The larger ships are understandably going to cost more. Those BT tripods aren't cheap, nor are the tanks for 40k. No assembly and no painting, along with the cards that come with it, the larger Xwing ships seem to justify some of their increased cost. The cost of that transport on the other hand is not something I would consider, but if you double the cost of the map size Leopard dropship it comes in rather close.
The funny thing about the rebels was that their fighters were higher quality then the empire's, but their warships were lower quality. How they managed to have anything that was higher quality then the empire is strange. The only real way that would happen is if the empire chose to build weaker ships, but in greater numbers, which they did. But that doesn't mean that they couldn't produce more advanced designs. If anything the empire had the greater capacity for designing and producing higher tier ships. Whatever the rebels could produce the empire could probably produce several more.
Its unlikely that the empire would have continued to produce and lose tons of tie fighters without adjusting over time. I doubt that Lucas really cared or even thought of how things would work in a game, or if things were a bit more realistic. The idea that higher end Tie fighters were never present in the movies, or rarely so is likely due to nothing more then it wasn't planned as being anything more then a movie.
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The MWDA minis were painted in the most horrendous manner possible.
MWDA?
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The funny thing about the rebels was that their fighters were higher quality then the empire's, but their warships were lower quality.
Not really - Home One was better than An IMP I SD, the Empire just had so-many more. the Imperial ships were also designs as ship killers, with nearly all their weapons devoted to killing other starships, which was stupid as the rebels didn't even have much in the way of starships when they first started. It was the Mon Calamari. who developed their own ship building capability out in the fringes that even gave the rebels any true warship capacity. the Empire relied on its fighters for fighter defense while the rebel ships, operating alone or in small groups, had to have more diverse weapon systems, requiring some loss of Anti-warship capability (that was what the B-Wing was for). as far as the fighters, the Empire used conscript tactics (let them die to save the ship & we'll make more) same as the Russians in WWII. the rebels (early on) had very few pilots (all they had at Yavin 4 was 30 pilots which is why they wanted Han to help - the DS had 7,000 TEIs - only Vaders personal squadron launched - that idiot Tarkin didn't bother launching any of his 7.000 assigned TIEs - what did he think they were there for?) and few fighters so they couldn't afford to loose many, so they bought high end fighters to help preserve as many of their pilots as they could, they also didn't have a permanent base, so the fighters had to fend for themselves, that means a Hyper-drive (also used in raiding) which meant higher cost and a greater incentive to buy ships that could survive a battle.
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Its unlikely that the empire would have continued to produce and lose tons of tie fighters without adjusting over time.
That's what the Advance, Interceptor & Defender were for. The TIE was addaquit against the Y-Wing (which was too slow and had early low powered shields). the Empire saw it's TIEs outmatched by first Z-95 Headhunters then X-Wings, that's when the TIE Advanced (Vaders fighter) was developed, as a prototype for a new High end Fighter. With its Hyper drive & shields it was considered too expensive by the Imperial Navy (It was also feared that a Hyper capable fighter would be used as a reason to slash new ship construction and would also facilitate defection/desertions). The shields and H-D were removed to make a striped down "cheap" version (which also had the happy benefit of greatly reducing mass & power consumption making a much faster and more nimble design). This design was close to the cost of a regular TIE and was put into production for elite or experienced pilots. That became the "Interceptor". Later, just before Rot, it was decided that the TIE was too outmatched by the rebel fighters, so a new design was produced (even more capable than the Advanced), for limited use by elite units, to counter the rebel fighters. this was the TIE/D Defender. It only had a short run before the Emperor was killed at Endor and the Empire began breaking apart.
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There is at least one online store offering a $70.00 pre-order deal on the Armada starter as well as reduced prices on individual warships and fighter squadron packs ... while I'm still deciding on whether to take the plunge even at that price, it's at least significantly less than "suggested retail price." Frankly, considering my scarcity of opponents and the lack of either a full-on Imperial Star Destroyer or Mon Cal Star Cruiser in the initial run, it's hard to feel the level of excitement I should, since this is something I've wanted for a long time, and was let down by the Wizards half-hearted attempt at a rule set ... and then there's the issue of the unpainted fighters ... my life right now does not lend itself to painting ... and I question how well I'd even be able to do those tiny things.
Side note regarding the TIE Advanced, it's worth noting that Fantasy Flight seems to like putting in ships from the EU, and there's an old Marvel comic (#18, I think) that had the Empire fielding a squadron of these ... so it may serve the double purpose of justifying a mold of a popular ship ...
I'll look forward to hearing what people think of this once it starts rolling out and some more ships are released ...
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I was ambivalent about the XWing game until (literally) right now. Blind movement makes it for me. Now to find opponents locally.
The struggle is real!
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Blind movement is indeed a fun game mechanic sometimes. It's one reason I love Starmada. O0
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It reminds me a lot of WK's Crimson Skies game. I miss that game.
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That's what the Advance, Interceptor & Defender were for. The TIE was addaquit against the Y-Wing (which was too slow and had early low powered shields). the Empire saw it's TIEs outmatched by first Z-95 Headhunters then X-Wings, that's when the TIE Advanced (Vaders fighter) was developed, as a prototype for a new High end Fighter. With its Hyper drive & shields it was considered too expensive by the Imperial Navy (It was also feared that a Hyper capable fighter would be used as a reason to slash new ship construction and would also facilitate defection/desertions). The shields and H-D were removed to make a striped down "cheap" version (which also had the happy benefit of greatly reducing mass & power consumption making a much faster and more nimble design). This design was close to the cost of a regular TIE and was put into production for elite or experienced pilots. That became the "Interceptor". Later, just before Rot, it was decided that the TIE was too outmatched by the rebel fighters, so a new design was produced (even more capable than the Advanced), for limited use by elite units, to counter the rebel fighters. this was the TIE/D Defender. It only had a short run before the Emperor was killed at Endor and the Empire began breaking apart.
Dude, I'm trying not to recall my days of running Starwars RPG games. Seriously, I was trying to block my brain's want to dig up that old information at various points in your post. Heck, I walked away from my own post that you were responding to because of that. I started to wonder about the imperial planet stripping resource gathering cubes used to feed their factories, how many of them were produced and just how many tons of resources they could gather and how that translated to x amount of tie fighters(of any design). @p? I just didn't want to go there so I walked away from my post before I even got near scratching the surface of the train of thought I had going.
Sluishi > all
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I was ambivalent about the XWing game until (literally) right now. Blind movement makes it for me. Now to find opponents locally.
The struggle is real!
Just double check you choose the direction you REALLY want, it really sucks to fly right into an asteroid (or off the board) because you weren't paying attention. :-[
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Just double check you choose the direction you REALLY want, it really sucks to fly right into an asteroid (or off the board) because you weren't paying attention. :-[
But it is AWESOME when your opponent does it! O0
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But it is AWESOME when your opponent does it! O0
I feel bad if I win because of a silly mistake like that.
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I feel bad if I win because of a silly mistake like that.
I've only played casual so it's always been a good laugh for both sides. Like Boba Fett's contract ran out half way through the fight so he left.
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Okay. How do the ships in the fleet action game scale? Are they to a scale, or merely proportional?
One of the drawbacks to the larger ships for X-Wing was that they had to make them smaller than the scale of the fighters and smaller large ships.
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Okay. How do the ships in the fleet action game scale? Are they to a scale, or merely proportional?
One of the drawbacks to the larger ships for X-Wing was that they had to make them smaller than the scale of the fighters and smaller large ships.
I haven't seen them, can't find any around here. Looking at the pics, it looks like the fighters may be a bit big. Remember the Imp SD is a mile long & the Supper SD is way bigger (forget the DS or the Eclipse) so, for any game to have them on a board, the fighters would be smaller than a pinhead to be proportional.
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from what I saw (thinking it was a video ... the ties are somewhere around .5ish to ~1 inch cubes.
the cap ships were closer to ~2-3 in long .. so they definitely aren't in scale fighters to caps, however the fighters may be roughly 1 scale and caps are roughly a second scale.
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I think the fighters are more of a fancy token than they are a model.
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from what I saw (thinking it was a video ... the ties are somewhere around .5ish to ~1 inch cubes.
the cap ships were closer to ~2-3 in long .. so they definitely aren't in scale fighters to caps, however the fighters may be roughly 1 scale and caps are roughly a second scale.
Actually, I see my question was a little misleading. I want to know if the Cap ships look like they're to-scale with each other, or merely proportional. I get that the fighters aren't going to be anywhere close, there's just no way. I know, I've tried kit-bashing some 1/2500ish scale ties. I just want to know if a rebel blockade runner will actually fit inside an ImpStar's primary docking bay if I hold the two up to eachother.
Thanks.
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I doubt scale will be an issue. There representations but will not be too scale. I mean if they wanted to sell Imp II's they would probably cost like fifty bucks per ship and a Super Star Destroyer three hundred if they wanted them to scale. My money is on they will be about the same size as the last Star Wars fleet based game was.
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Actually, I see my question was a little misleading. I want to know if the Cap ships look like they're to-scale with each other, or merely proportional. I get that the fighters aren't going to be anywhere close, there's just no way. I know, I've tried kit-bashing some 1/2500ish scale ties. I just want to know if a rebel blockade runner will actually fit inside an ImpStar's primary docking bay if I hold the two up to eachother.
Thanks.
It won't fit. There is a sliding scale of sorts between small, medium, and large ships which is as yet is undefined. The whole point is to have a game that looks good and is functional. Perfect scale isn't part of the equation for the publisher.
See Fantasy Flight Games forums for more confusion, frustration, and disinformation.
S/F
Matt
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Very few space combat game systems have a true constant scale. Either you have ships that are very close to each other in size so the size difference isn't much of a problem, or things get really bulky at the upper and lower ends.
I've seen constant scale Star Wars ships. Corellian Corvettes are so small as to be almost unusable, and Star Destroyers are immense. Stormlion1's comment about the cost of an SSD is not an exaggeration, it is the literal and exact truth.
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I agree with you Weirdo, but much of the vocal Fantasy Flight Games forum community thinks scale is the end all be all. Humorously, the designers don't seem to care.
S/F
Matt
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They can't care, if they did they would both put a nail in the games coffin or they would tear there hair out! Look at this way. They make that to-scale Super Star Destroyer. They have two options. Limited quantities and everyone complains because they missed out or general production and they sell badly because no one can afford a three hundred dollar model.
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A lot of starship gamers are really big on it. Me, I'm okay with sliding scales when the relative sizes of ships call for it. For example, I prefer a hard scale for Star Trek minis, since most ships in a given era tend to be of a similar size, or at least close enough that it's not a big bother. It's possible to have a decent-sized Defiant without an obscenely large Galaxy, though the D'deridex has to be done on a sliding scale, lest it take up half the table. DS9 or any major Borg vessel is definitely right out. Conversely, can you imagine Battletech aero minis done on a fixed scale, one big enough for DropShips to be recognizable? WarShips would be a LOT larger and more expensive than they are now, and the odds of a Newgrange miniature(or anything else with an internal repair bay) would be literally zero, as opposed to merely rather low(improving, now the Fan Financing is coming back).
They can't care, if they did they would both put a nail in the games coffin or they would tear there hair out! Look at this way. They make that to-scale Super Star Destroyer. They have two options. Limited quantities and everyone complains because they missed out or general production and they sell badly because no one can afford a three hundred dollar model.
That's the exact situation with the actual 1/20,000 scale SSDs that have been produced. Very low production runs, and like I said, you are exactly correct on the price. (And since Lucasfilms has never even heard of the manufacturers, that's the last I'll discuss 'em here.)
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A lot of starship gamers are really big on it. Me, I'm okay with sliding scales when the relative sizes of ships call for it. For example, I prefer a hard scale for Star Trek minis, since most ships in a given era tend to be of a similar size, or at least close enough that it's not a big bother. It's possible to have a decent-sized Defiant without an obscenely large Galaxy, though the D'deridex has to be done on a sliding scale, lest it take up half the table. DS9 or any major Borg vessel is definitely right out. Conversely, can you imagine Battletech aero minis done on a fixed scale, one big enough for DropShips to be recognizable? WarShips would be a LOT larger and more expensive than they are now, and the odds of a Newgrange miniature(or anything else with an internal repair bay) would be literally zero, as opposed to merely rather low(improving, now the Fan Financing is coming back).
That's the exact situation with the actual 1/20,000 scale SSDs that have been produced. Very low production runs, and like I said, you are exactly correct on the price. (And since Lucasfilms has never even heard of the manufacturers, that's the last I'll discuss 'em here.)
Actually they make a set of scale DS9 figures and a Borg Cube. There huge in comparison to the ships from the game.
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Yup. Saw them, no desire to ever buy them. I'll look elsewhere for a DS9 that won't dominate the entire board, and the Borg Cube is one of the few starships in all of fiction where going papercraft is the easiest route. O0
I am intrigued by the other Borg offerings from that set, though. Big enough to look threatening on the tabletop, but not so much that their use is impractical.
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Let me known when I can fight the Battle of Endor with the Star Wars Armada figures :D
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Let me known when I can fight the Battle of Endor with the Star Wars Armada figures :D
Now that would be epic. The Empire had what, Twenty Star Destroyers and a Super Star Destroyer besides the Death Star at Endor?
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Yup. Saw them, no desire to ever buy them. I'll look elsewhere for a DS9 that won't dominate the entire board, and the Borg Cube is one of the few starships in all of fiction where going papercraft is the easiest route. O0
I am intrigued by the other Borg offerings from that set, though. Big enough to look threatening on the tabletop, but not so much that their use is impractical.
they should dominate the board. "My borg cube against you 7 entire fleets!" (best ST episode ever: Klingon fleet Vs DS9)
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Now that would be epic. The Empire had what, Twenty Star Destroyers and a Super Star Destroyer besides the Death Star at Endor?
i don't think there's any specific data on just how many ships were used but I think it was more than 20 Imp SDs and a bunch of the Immobilizer 418 "Interdictor" cruisers + Victory's.
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i don't think there's any specific data on just how many ships were used but I think it was more than 20 Imp SDs and a bunch of the Immobilizer 418 "Interdictor" cruisers + Victory's.
I always thought it was closer to 40 ISD's alone. With one SSD that would take up a whole board.
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they should dominate the board
With one SSD that would take up a whole board.
Dominating a fight, yes. But when the mini is so big that there's no room to maneuver around it, the game stops being fun.
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Need some big tables I would think. What's worse its kind of obvious the two fleets were moving towards each other so the Executor didn't just sit there.
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Need some big tables I would think. What's worse its kind of obvious the two fleets were moving towards each other so the Executor didn't just sit there.
A) a convention room - empty & B) no - the Imps were ordered to stay back. only the fighters engaged, the Rebels stayed out at first, till the DS opened fire, then charged into the SDs. They still would have been annihilated except that, when the Emperor was killed & the Executioner destroyed with Admiral Piett ("I don't want anything getting threw!") on board, it threw the fleet into confusion & it broke up & ran. The Rebs still managed to take out 2 Imp SD + the SSD in the action. I think Adm Akbar was wrong when he order them to fire on the SSD. if he had ordered the fleet to concentrate on the little stuff then the Imps would have lost a lot more & they might have taken out the Interdictors & been able to have their big ships run for it (the fighters have their own HDs to fallow later after getting clear of the DSs infrastructure). course nobody argues with success.
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Not sure, the SSD was Definatly under power when it collided with the Death Star. Sure Gravity might have pulled it in but to be driven into the Death Star like a spear? Probably because the engines were running and sped up the process. If not it should have taken a whole lot longer for gravity to do its work. Probably the chain of events was that the Imperial Fleet sat there until the DS opened fired then the Rebs moved in and everyone started maneuvering about.
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... the Rebs moved in and everyone started maneuvering about.
Well yea. If your being engaged, your not going to sit still as a setting duck (especially if you have a wide open butt like the Imp SDs :)) ). Plus, the SSD was receiving concentrated fire, took critical damage to it's shields and was trying to extricate itself (the Interdicters work both ways).
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Yup. Saw them, no desire to ever buy them. I'll look elsewhere for a DS9 that won't dominate the entire board, and the Borg Cube is one of the few starships in all of fiction where going papercraft is the easiest route. O0
You mean hit up the back of your local grocery store, find the biggest cardboard box you can find, stuff into the trunk, head home, get it out, throw a bunch of glue on it, toss on any wires you may have from old electronics and any parts from electronics you smashed up good,allow to dry, throw black and grey paint on it, badda bing, borg cube, Resistance is futile.
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Even less work than that. I googled "Borg papercraft" and printed out the first model that looked decent. Total investment was about three pages of cardstock and some printer ink, and I had a good Cube that dwarfs any other mini on the table, but is still small enough to be practical. O0
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Yup. Saw them, no desire to ever buy them. I'll look elsewhere for a DS9 that won't dominate the entire board, and the Borg Cube is one of the few starships in all of fiction where going papercraft is the easiest route. O0
That's when they no longer are playing pieces, but a part of the playmat, if you will. In fact, I liked that one of the maps you get for the old Clix Tactics Star Trek starter has a portion of the station taking up quite a bit of space. It's a terrain feature. The same could be said for a death star section or even the top or bottom of a Super SD. I never had the impression that the Super Star Desroyer was any kind of mobile in a space battle compared to other ships.
If something like the SSD or Borg Cube is on the move during a battle, it wouldn't be hard to come up with some Thunder Road style rules to deal with things sliding on and off the map in a particular direction. Seriously, there are ways to make scale work, still look good, and be functional. You just have to think outside the box and decide on what scale you want to play at.
For that matter, you can still have some sort of scale indicator in a representative game like the current game is looking to be, like a colored icon on the base or a line-up in the back of the rulebook, just for kicks. An imagination aid is what I'm usually after, something to help me picture things as they're supposed to be, even if the actual representation is expanded or shrunk for feasibility. I don't think that's too much to ask for.
But, as long as an Impstar is small than the SSD, and a blockade runner is smaller than an Impstar, and so on and so forth, I'll be happy.
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R.L.s Leviathan was intended as the original SW capital ship game. FASA threw scale completely out the window. 1 hex = 75km/45Mil, easily able to take even a SSD inside 1 hex (though the DS would take up more). The ships were set to different scales based on type. DDs & smaller (including groups of fighters) were 1 Hex, Frigates (larger than DDs) were 2 Hex, Cruisers were 3 Hex and Battleships were 4 Hex. There was no stacking limit. Weapon fire was measured from the ships nearest hex, unless the 2 ships overlap, then it's measured from the back hex.
A guy I use to game with screwed up bad with that once. We were playing the Kraken Adventure. He had the Kraken Squadron, I had the Renegades, I had decisive victories on the 1st 2 missions, leaving him in the lurch [fiddle] . When we played the 3rd mission, he had only the Kraken with no support ships. I had a super battleship (bigger than his) with cruiser escorts (the mission is that the Kraken gets ambushed). He only had to turn & leave the board but received points for staying and dealing damage. I received points for dealing damage to him. He got greedy & closed. He tried to pull a maneuver where he overlapped the Kraken across my Battleship & declared he was rolling ship to fire down, claiming I couldn't fire "up" at him. Should have read the rules ::) . I pointed out that fire is measured from the rear Hex, [legal] which means (as we were setting) bow to bow. As my Battleships bow fire, my Cruisers broadside & several hundred fighters at point blank range all combined into his bow armor, I damaged his aft armor :o !
Actually I blew off my own battleships bow half (& destroyed all my own fighters)...using his main reactor [face palm] .
Kraken destroyed, Admiral killed, campaign VERY over.
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Thread resurrection!
My wife gave me a handful of TIEs for Christmas, so I'll finally have a chance to get into this game. However, once I actually get the core box, my Imperials will outnumber my Rebels five to one. Not a problem for game store matches since I can find Rebel-leaning people to play against, but it does make playing at home difficult. Does anyone know of a box set or something I can get that would let me build up a respectable Rebel squad for cheaper than buying a bunch of fighters singly?
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Rebel Aces will give you an A wing and a B wing, but all the other packs are singles.
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I always thought it was closer to 40 ISD's alone. With one SSD that would take up a whole board.
going by visual analysis.. the Imperials had 1 SSD, and 42 ISD's. and nothing else.
the old EU about doubled this with various ships not in evidence in the footage (interdictors, carracks, victory's, etc)
the did the same to the Rebels..
the film has something like
the home one
3 mon cal cruisers
1 Nebulon-B "medical frigate"
2-3 CR-90 corvettes
5-6 GR-75 transports
and a lot of X-wings, A-wings, Y-wings, and B-wings.
the EU about doubles the fleet with various ship types not in evidence in the footage,. and you get things like the rebels capturing half a dozen star destroyers during the battle..
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Weirdo, your best bet is Rebel Acss and then probably a Falcon or an Outrider. The Rebel big ships can cost up to half a list by themselves kitted out.
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Rebel Aces will give you an A wing and a B wing, but all the other packs are singles.
This or get one of the larger ships like the Falcon or Ghost.
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Han Solo in the Falcon and Corran Horn in the E-wing is a pretty solid list. Some of the typical upgrades for both come in Rebel Aces, but honestly you only need a couple ships to build a list on either side.
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A naked falcon can cost nearly 50 points on its own and the falcons are pretty good ships.
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Weirdo, saw your post on FFG's Armada forum about adding to your core set. I'd ask them about expansion synergies (e.g., the MC30 & CR-90 for Turbo Laser Reroute Circuits or Gen. Riekeen (sp)). I'm a complete noob regarding the game so I'm of limited help. Also, Rogues & Villians might be a good option after a another medium ship or two; Amazon had the CR-90 for cheap the other day.
S/F
Matt
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I'm not really concerned with getting the most out of upgrade and special ability cards and whatnot, just having fun with cool looking ships. Vague balance is far more important to me than full performance.
At this point, I think my plan is to pick up a Gladiator SD, Assault FF Mk II, and Raider PC. That'll give me a properly Imperial lean, and a Rebel fleet that can give my giant space wedges a decent fight. I'll work on expanding from there in the future.
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Understandable. I was trying to give you a reason to mine some of the older and now cheaper expansions that you could leverage against the new expansions.
While my wife occupied the upstairs television watching a bowl game, I was watching WSH vs. PHI while I opened my birthday Rebel birthday haul (2 x MC30 & 1 x MC80).
Also breaking back to X-Wing, The Force Awakens core set has been on sale in a number of places; I should have mentioned that in an earlier post.
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Quick question for those who have played Armada, now: Do they use the fighter figures on the stands as a form of hit points? Should I be mindfull of having to remove them from the stands before I go too far in painting them up for cross platform play?
This occurred to me while painting up BattleLore figures, and how that game does damage tracking. It wouldn't surprise me if they replicated the mechanic in other games.
Thanks.
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Quick question for those who have played Armada, now: Do they use the fighter figures on the stands as a form of hit points? Should I be mindfull of having to remove them from the stands before I go too far in painting them up for cross platform play?
This occurred to me while painting up BattleLore figures, and how that game does damage tracking. It wouldn't surprise me if they replicated the mechanic in other games.
Thanks.
No, the figher base has a hit point dial on the bottom; the fighters themselves sre an abtract representation of a unit.
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Death Squadron, Vaders personal fleet was something like one Super Star Destroyer and twenty two Imperial Star Destroyers originally in the early novels. After several years it doubled to near forty ships and had two captured during the battle. Including one somehow by Han Solo who was on Endor at the time. Think the story was referenced in the X-Wing novels by Stackpole.
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Vader's Death Squad....was that the fleet at Endor??
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No, the figher base has a hit point dial on the bottom; the fighters themselves sre an abtract representation of a unit.
Thanks.
Cool. So, if I wanted to, I could have just one fighter on the stand, and it should be okay to play. Or no fighters, even.
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Thanks.
Cool. So, if I wanted to, I could have just one fighter on the stand, and it should be okay to play. Or no fighters, even.
Well, with friends or by yourself you'd be okay; wander into a game store to play with FFG tourney regulars you might get a different answer.
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Vader's Death Squad....was that the fleet at Endor??
Hoth too. it was something of a personal fleet of his.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Death_Squadron
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Death_Squadron/Legends
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FFG is getting ready to drop an expansion pack that's the Ghost, Phantom and crew from Rebels and kitted out they will take up most of your points for a 100 point force.
-Jackmc
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they've already released the Gozanti TIE carrier from Rebels, IIRC.
i wonder if/when they'll do the Inquisitor's "Advanced TIE" (which later showed up again with the new Inquisitors, and apparently is or can be made hyperdrive capable..)
(http://img.lum.dolimg.com/v1/images/image_3aaf40b1.jpeg?region=0%2C0%2C1920%2C1080&width=768)
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i wonder if/when they'll do the Inquisitor's "Advanced TIE"
As soon as the shipping containers finally clears customs. The Gozanti, Ghost and Tie/Inq were all supposed to drop in time for Christmas but got delayed by a few weeks. The Gozanti is out now and the Ghost should be reaching store shelves this week or next with the Tie/Inq not too far behind (probably third week of Jan). Then the Mist hunter, Punishing One and Imperial Veterans pack(elite TIE Defender and Bomber) close out Wave 8 by the summer which should set us up for a Gen Con announcement of Wave 9.
-Jackmc
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As soon as the shipping containers finally customs. The Gozanti, Ghost and Tie/Inq were all supposed to drop in time for Christmas but got delayed by a few weeks. The Gozanti is out now and the Ghost should be reaching store shelves this week or next with the Tie/Inq not too far behind (probably third week of Jan). Then the Mist hunter, Punishing One and Imperial Veterans pack(elite TIE Defender and Bomber) close out Wave 8 by the summer which should set us up for a Gen Con announcement of Wave 9.
-Jackmc
I hope they release more in the way of Armada stuff. The products are so awesome, but need some new stuff.
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As soon as the shipping containers finally customs. The Gozanti, Ghost and Tie/Inq were all supposed to drop in time for Christmas but got delayed by a few weeks. The Gozanti is out now and the Ghost should be reaching store shelves this week or next with the Tie/Inq not too far behind (probably third week of Jan). Then the Mist hunter, Punishing One and Imperial Veterans pack(elite TIE Defender and Bomber) close out Wave 8 by the summer which should set us up for a Gen Con announcement of Wave 9.
-Jackmc
The Gozanti is not actually a part of Wave 8, but released close enough to cause some confusion. The T-70 and TIE/FO packs are part of Wave 8, but were expedited in order to hit shelves the day of/before the movie released. The rest of Wave 8 will be along in a few weeks, and will hit shelves simultaneously, including Ghost, the Inquisitor's Tie Advanced, Mist Hunter, and Punishing One.
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and will hit shelves simultaneously, including Ghost, the Inquisitor's Tie Advanced, Mist Hunter, and Punishing One.
I just researched then purchased several hundred dollars and multiple sources (ie retailers) have the releases staggered through out the first part of the year.
-Jackmc
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I'll believe it when I open the shipping package and half the wave is not there; not before. It makes little sense to stagger the release of a new wave in the prime of store championship season.
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Retailers taking preorders will slap on any date they think sounds right. Every wave I've seen since I started playing has released all at once.
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played a couple games of X-wing today. my younger brother spent his Xmas money on a bunch of X-wing sets (IIRC, a core set, the rebel and imperial aces sets, singles for a TIE and Interceptor, the Falcon, and the Slave I)
he'd played it with friends before but we were both fairly new to it. first game was the 'tutorial' scenario with Luke's X-wing vs the two TIE's. he flew the TIE's, i had the X-wing. i won that one handily due to a mix of bad tactics on his part (early on he split his forces trying to get fancy, and didn't anticipate that i'd turn.. which put me in a great place to shoot up the weaker of the two TIE's.) in the end the X-wing didn't even have a scratch.
the 2nd game was a larger affair, 100pts each. i had the basic versions of the A-wing, X-wing, B-wing, and YT-1300, with about 11 points of the upgrades.
he had 3 Interceptors and 1 TIE, all special pilots (Fel, 2 royal guard, and howlrunner, IIRC) and tricked out with as many upgrades as he could fit.
that game was a bit of a mess (we added asteroids to the play area, and trying to avoid those just led to several multiple ship pileups), and we wound up attriting each other fairly heavily.. eventually it was down to Fell and howlrunner vs my B-wing and an A-wing.. the B-wing killed itself taking a risk for a better shot (it had a crit that meant the maneuver inflicted damage.. then it flew through an asteroid.. :-[ ) and then Howlrunner finished off the A-wing.
it was very close up till the last couple turns though.. a bit like a battletech game, once ships started being lost, a bunch went in a short time.
while i'd already spent my Xmas money (on some movies and things that had been on my list but i didn't get), i'm going to try and sell back some of my used books and DVD's to the local Hastings, see if i can get in-store credit enough to get some ships of my own.
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sorry for the double pot.
didn't manage to sell back as many books and DVD's as i'd hoped, so my own X-wing purchases are on hold till i can (maybe) sell some stuff via ebay.
was thinking a Force Awakens starter, a A-wing expansion, and a HWK-2900 expansion.. i played around on a online unit builder, can do some interesting stuff with those three to start. (gotta use named pilots though to fill a full 100pts.)
was looking at:
http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/380327/battle-meditation
Poe Dameron (t-70 Xwing), w/ BB-8, Proton torpedoes, and Push the Limit.
Tycho Celchu (A-wing), w/ Wired
Kyle Katarn (HWK-290), w/ Moldy Crow, Ion Cannon Turret, Recon Specialist.
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Careful with torpedoes and missiles. There's almost always a better use of your points.
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Careful with torpedoes and missiles. There's almost always a better use of your points.
But also keep in mind that because everyone knows that, there are several nasty tournie lists that have them.
-Jackmc
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well, not planning to do tournaments any time soon. just games with family and friends. (my brother is planning to introduce his Airsoft group to this game and others before long.. they saw pics of our games with his small collection and got interested) this is more of a "what can i build with the contents of 3 purchases", planning ahead some due to my limited budget.
a starter set, a A-wing, and a HWK are something i could reach by putting aside money from paychecks fairly easily. especially if i can sell some stuff on Ebay.
that said i've considered swapping the proton's in that for concussion missiles on the A-wing (since Poe is likely to attract a lot of fire)
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Careful with torpedoes and missiles. There's almost always a better use of your points.
Bear in mind that unless you're in a tournament and there solely for the purpose of winning, 'better' and 'more efficient' are a lot less important than 'fun'. In my admittedly very limited experience, successfully dropping a salvo of protorps on a TIE Defender (or taking an Interceptor from 100% to mostly dead with a single Concussion Missile shot) is a LOT of fun. >:D
(and this is coming from the Imp player in that fight)
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Careful with torpedoes and missiles. There's almost always a better use of your points.
Guidance Chips say hi.
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I enjoy some heavy ordnance in any game I play, but it kind of fell flat in X-wing. I still end up taking some every other game in hopes that maybe it'll be worth it and I'll get to enjoy a "this will be so awesome when it hits!" moment. Sadly, more often than not I'm just watching the missile and the points spent on it fly off into the void. I've always wished they'd get rid of the single use aspect of missiles and torpedoes. I know fighters don't carry an infinite payload, but doesn't a standard size game really only represent a 10 minute dog fight?
Guidance Chips say hi.
Yeah that one could be a game changer.
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well it looks like i'll get my start earlier than i expected.. some of the stuff in my amazon order evidently were out of stock by the time they processed my order, so i had to cancel. i'd already waited nearly a week for them to restock and still no improvement. so i dropped out the DVD's that were out of stock (guess i'll wait a bit longer to get the rest of the The Hobbit) and stuck in the HWK and A-wing expansions, which cost about the same.
so should have them by next week.
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Well Heavygun picked up the Force Awakens core set for the X-wing Attack game and I was only planning on buying a ship for myself which I did at local gaming store near him and where we play BT. Not a lot in stock and then he took me to a game store inside the mall near him and I dropped $200 on the original core set and a few expansion packs some were for him as well so I get a 2nd company of mechs painted by him :D however today dropped another $160 dollars on the game for 2 more of the larger expansion packs.
Had a lot of fun playing the game last night and definitely will enjoy playing this game with him and see if my younger brother will enjoy it.
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I need to pick up a couple of K's and 3 E's and I'll have at least three of all the Rebel small base ships. Once I have those and a 2400, I think I'll have my Rebels where I want them (one of everything and multiples for important pieces). I've got a Force Awakens set in route and I'm curious to see if the T-70 will breathe some new life into the X-wing. I might have to order a couple more if it does.
Imperial-wise, I'll have enough for Tie/Ln's for a proper swarm once my Gozanti arrives this week. I'll probably pick up the Veterans pack when it drops so that I have a Defender in the fleet and more elite Bomber options for my admittedly gimmicky Bomber w/ Lambda serving as spotter list. I also just got in a Punisher and I'm eager to play around with that. Guess I need to also pick up a phantom and Slave 1 just so I've got the full range.
Scum and Villainy-wise, I've got nothing but I'm sorely tempted to buy 1 of everything just for eye candy sake as they've got some wonderful models full of character.
-Jackmc
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I am thinking of ordering the Veterans pack as well. I like the Imperial Aces. But now I have to find a new battlefoam case and foam for these. will probably get the assault carrier as well in a few weeks
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well, used the last of my Xmas money and a hastings giftcard from a book buyback to grab a few cheap Xwing expansions from hastings. (instead of getting a core set, which my brother now has 2 of.)
so soon i will now have in expansion sets..
1 HWK-290
1 A-wing
1 X-wing
1 E-wing.
this will need some adjustments to planned forces, but should be a good start.
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I did manage to get a couple games in a couple Saturdays back.
We played with the normal minis first as it was a group of three, so one person was standing out. A lot of mistakes were made as we were refreshing ourselves on rules and stats. That and really good luck on my opponent side saw him wipe out the Tie force with nary a scratch. Force build was 2 X-wings (Rookie and Red Squadron pilot) and 3 Tie/LN (2 Academy Grads and on Obsidian Squadron pilot)
Looking at the points afterward, we concluded that I was behind by a significant number of points. So, the next guy took up the Rebel cause, flying two Rookies, while I swapped an Academy Grad for a Black Squadron Pilot. The second game came down to the wire a lot better as luck was pretty even. Still, the Rebels one with one damaged ship remaining. I notice that it's easy for Ties to get one-shotted at close range, especially with the Lock-On ability in play.
We also took the painted Armada Fighters I'd converted to fit on the stand pegs, (3 Tie and 2 X-Wing) and tried them out.
I personally liked seeing the smaller fighters on the board. The first in our group didn't have an opinion on the matter, but the second player said he liked 'em, stating it was easier for him to work with the bases and fit his hands and arms around the figures compared to the larger ones.
On that front, I've found some micro machines that work really well in place of the YT-1300 (Millenium Falcon) and Lambda shuttle. I'm wondering if I should go ahead and copy and shrink the base templates for use on the regular fighter scale bases, or mod them for use with the larger pegs and bases, and call it tactical occupation space, like a hex in BT.
Just picked up my first Lambda, too, and I'm thinking it'll be fun to start Maarek Stele's story from the Tie Fighter video game. It's funky, but, while the Mission for the Lambda is interesting, I don't agree with some of the mechanics they've come up with, so I might tweak it, or at least the wording. I can see attacks made against the disabled ships keeping people from being rescued by injuring or killing them, but I don't see how they get captured that way.
[shrug]
Questions:
1) Has anyone structured a campaign of sorts, whether it's of force attrition or seeing how long a particular pilot lasts? How do you think pilot survival should be handled from 'destroyed craft'? How would you suggest handling skill progression?
2) Has anyone tweaked things for the sake of experiment?
Example: My friends were noticing that the crit hit tokens never get used. We simply draw from the damage deck. We were thinking of flipping what represents a crit hit and a normal hit around so that normal hits are applied as critical effects instead, since they match the back of the damage card, and have the crit hits apply as normal hits, but as damage tokens instead of drawing from the damage deck. This would, by necessity, have to change the order by which damage is absorbed by shields. I personally like the idea of playing with adverse effects a little more often. From the books and the movies, the craft seemed particularly fragile with not a lot of back-ups should something fail.
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I'd be very leery of screwing around with the base size for medium and large base ships. XWM is a very precisely engineered system and messing with the size of the base, play area or size/amount of obstacles, really alters the game play and can screw balance horribly. Frex moving from the standard 3x3 play area to a more common 4x4 or 4x6 makes turret forces spamming Twin Laser Turrets overpowering as it's much more difficult to close to get inside their minimum range. Similarly, the base size of medium and large base ships is meant to be an inherent handicap for them as it significantly impacts their ability to maneuver in tight spots which is a huge aspect of the game.
I don't see an issue with stringing together campaigns for your enjoyment but understand that SWM is considered a highly competitive game (think MtG Tourney Play or WarmaHordes), not a beer and pretzels one. if you have a core game group that's great, but understand that if you show up with house rules at one of the stores that supports organized play, many players are likely going to regard you as a little odd or refuse to play you since it won't bolster their ranked standing.
-Jackmc
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I don't see an issue with stringing together campaigns for your enjoyment but understand that SWM is considered a highly competitive game (think MtG Tourney Play or WarmaHordes), not a beer and pretzels one. if you have a core game group that's great, but understand that if you show up with house rules at one of the stores that supports organized play, many players are likely going to regard you as a little odd or refuse to play you since it won't bolster their ranked standing.
-Jackmc
[sarcasm] Wow. It's as if I hadn't had any experience with competitive play and general public play environments. This rube (Me), who has had no such experience with Magic the Gathering or a few local MechWarrior Dark Age groups over the past 10 years, thanks you for your insight.[/sarcasm]
Sorry. :-[ :P
People don't even ask if I've had any competitive environment experiences. I get statements like yours as if I'm completely new at this and can't identify what's safe for public or private consumption way too often.
It's interesting, though, that you point out the direction the game has gone. I, myself, wasn't expecting to use it for competitive play. I bought it for the miniatures and a potentially fun experience with friends. I wonder if tournaments are the kind of play experience Fantasy Flight is trying to foster. Honestly, if rank padding is the best I'll ever be for most people, I'll probably not miss playing with them.
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Highly competitive doesn't mean dispassionate or harsh. FFG's tournament environment is top notch (and a damn sight better than any Magic tournament I've ever been to, and I've been to a fair few). People will be trying to win, of course, but X-wing is a game in which winning is actually fun and not just a means to a new promo card. Especially with the tournament balance and meta in the place it currently is. There are sub-part combinations of cards, of course, and 'netdecking' will always be a thing for people trying to mimic success, but there is no 'solved' set of maneuvers or cards you can include to have a better chance of winning than your opponent.
X-wing (and FFG) has an excellent tournament community.
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You speak of a meta, and I see this pop up all the time on the FFG forums.
What in the name of the ThousandGoat is a meta?!?
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It's a truncated form of "Metagame", which is the process and competitive thought behind building your squadron for a tournament or competitive event.
For example: Twin Laser Turrets are very, very good at dealing with low health arc-dodgers like TIE Interceptors and Phantoms. TIE Interceptors and Phantoms were, for a good period of time (when paired along with ships like Decimators and YT-1300s) the dominant list in the game, because they were relatively easy to fly and could get good results with some room for error. TLTs are therefore prevalent in the metagame, because they make those lists much harder to fly.
So, when I say something along the lines of "The X-wing tournament meta is currently diverse" it means that there are a lot of different ways to build your squadron that are all effective and capable in a competitive tournament environment.
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People always speak of what should be unique for each of the thousands of X-Wing players in the singular. I'm not about to get plugged in to another hive mind, am I?
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Well if you play the meta, I'm not saying exactly you'll be plugged into the hive mind.
I'm just saying you better make room in your head for a lot of voices chanting as one.
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People always speak of what should be unique for each of the thousands of X-Wing players in the singular. I'm not about to get plugged in to another hive mind, am I?
Probably not! My personal lists for tournaments are represented by approximately three other people on the face of the Earth. Just play what you like and if that works for you, good!
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People don't even ask if I've had any competitive environment experiences. I get statements like yours as if I'm completely new at this and can't identify what's safe for public or private consumption way too often.
Well, no offense, but already postulating how you will house rule a game before you've spent the hours required to understand all of its nuances on a fundamental level is a typical greenhorn behavior. This impression gets reinforced when you factor in that the typical experienced player understands that in a measurement-based minis game, messing with bases sizes screws with the math that underpins the game engine.
-Jackmc
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People don't even ask if I've had any competitive environment experiences. I get statements like yours as if I'm completely new at this and can't identify what's safe for public or private consumption way too often.
Or to put it another way, it'd be like playing Battletech on a hexmap against someone who makes his hex bases 'in scale with the Battlemechs, if it's supposed to be 30m across then it should be three times as big yeah?'
It's an interesting idea, but it messed with the game so fundamentally that it's damaging to the gameplay.
Bases are more than just bases, they represent the unit's footprint.
As far as competitive play goes, while you always have people who are outright jerks about winning and losing, overall most people are good.
I WANT the new TIE/fn, the other kind shown in the new movie. They have a turret. A Y-Wing with the maneuverability of a TIE? This is relevant to my interests.
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the TIE/sf actually.
not only does it have a turret in addition to the regular lasers, but it also is supposed to have better shields. and if the crosssections book is to beleived, the ability to deploy concussion and magpulse warheads . (given they call them 'warheads' rather than missiles/torpedoes like with the X--wing description, i suspect it can fill in as a bomber.. it sounds like the Y-wing of TIE's)
evidently some people on the FFG forums don't like the idea of giving it an actual turret slot though (something about wing panels in the way, as if the game actually took place on a 2D plane with no tilting, banking, pitch, or roll movement at all..)
personally i'm expecting it to have stats similar to the TIE/fo, with one extra shield, a turret slot, and maybe a bomb (or missile) slot. which could make it an interesting dynamic for the Imperial side.
though the unit i think would be most interesting to see brought in is that Resistance fighter-transport General Leia used for getting around. it's basically a B-wing frame converted over to a shuttle, and the crossections book has it with some impressive weapons options. (laser cannon is standard, but can have blasters under the cockpit, and mount missile launchers in the weapons pod. while retaining it's transport space.)
(http://i67.tinypic.com/1692tqf.png)
it would probably end up a bit like a mix of the HWK-290 and the B-wing.. a bit slow and lumbering, but with cannon and missile slots, and crew spaces. could make for a fun niche unit. plus it would be a good excuse to get a "General Leia Organa Solo" crew card with a nice ability, and maybe an Admiral Ackbar card..
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By the way, if people are wanting to store X-Wing/Armada stuff without shelling out for those big foam trays and whatnot, I'm finding this guy's work (http://www.sirwillibald.com/?lang=en) to be very useful.
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So have any of you guys actually got to play with the Gozanti yet? I ordered one a while back but it's trapped in the black hole that is the bush Alaska mail system. >:( :-X
-Jackmc
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The rebel forces seem to need a ship that can bring in a group of X-wings or whatever like the Imperial Carrier which I am planning on getting soon. But is the Ghost out yet?
Also do any of you play the campaign or run your own style campaign with this game?
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sadly there isn't much in the setting able to do small scale fighter deployment that isn't imperial. since most Rebel fighters have their own hyperdrives there isn't a lot of call.
though if we get a SW:Rebels based large ship we could see an upgrade card for docking a few fighters to a large ship. we see the CR-90 corvettes used by the cell in SW:Rebels dock some A-wings directly to airlocks for transport to battle. and given the GR-75 transport is modular (and bigger than they made its mini at Xwing scale) i could see fighter carriage modules on them for a few ships.
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Well, no offense, but already postulating how you will house rule a game before you've spent the hours required to understand all of its nuances on a fundamental level is a typical greenhorn behavior. This impression gets reinforced when you factor in that the typical experienced player understands that in a measurement-based minis game, messing with bases sizes screws with the math that underpins the game engine.
-Jackmc
None taken. But, I never expect to take the ideas I muse about on my own time straight to a store and tourney environment on the first go. And, to suggest that I'd do so without even asking is just too assumptive.
As it stands, few of your suggestions and comments have any value for me, because they don't tell me anything I don't already know. I've already recognized the importance of the base on the X-Wing game, which is why I'm only toying around with ideas. The Base is actually the only pertinent part of the game. The miniatures are immaterial, merely eye candy, and not necessary to playing the game. Want proof? Write an email asking about the size of the CR-90 Corvette as scaled to the fighters. They've admitted that it's not at the same scale. (Probably a price point thing. Already at a 2/3rds size 33mm, it's nearly $70. A properly sized 55mm would probably run closer to $100.)
As for being identified as a greenhorn? I get it. If that's the measure, then so be it. But, I'm always wondering if the game play experience I'm given is the one I'm looking for, and if tweaking it will make any difference. There really aren't that many other Star Wars games out there that deal with ship-to-ship combat in any meaningful way. It's not like I have a Star Fleet Battles version to fall back on like I do if I don't want to play Trek Attack Wing.
When I ask about something on a forum like this, it isn't because I have anything to offer, but more of a curiosity to see if someone else has already played around with the idea or come up with something different.
I've done plenty of play testing and I've played in quite a few tournaments and structured league-like events with other games. With play testing, I can tell you that what may appear to be a balanced final product doesn't necessarily mean it is. Why do you think Magic is constantly getting a banned or restricted list with each new set? Someone found an imbalancing combo that wasn't caught in the normal rounds of play testing. Or it was caught and left.
Even now, I'm looking at some of the style and structure of X-Wing and wondering if the layout for a game wasn't finalized simply due to budget constraints.
For example: Attack Wing did something interesting that they didn't do with X-Wing. They assigned the skill level to a separate controller (Captain) whereas in X-Wing, each pilot is slaved to what amounts to a duplicate ship of a class. Maarek Stele was pulled from the Tie Fighter game, and he flew not only Tie/LN but Interceptors and even Gunboats throughout the progression of his career. But, right now, in my collection, he's only in a Tie Advanced.
Luke gets to ride around in a E-Wing in a couple novels. Corran Horn was an X-Wing pilot for the longest time, with his own CorSec painted fighter. The guy from the X-Wing video games got to fly around in pretty much any fighter available to the rebellion.
But, you can't do that, unless you find a way to substitute.
Sure, it's not an RPG, but if I want Corran in an X-Wing, I should be able to put Corran in an X-Wing.
Did they fall back on this method for a reason? Probably. But, it's a flaw, not a perk. It could have been just as simple for them to come up with a line of Pilot Cards and then have a bare bones fighter card with all the rest of the pertinent stats not associated with the pilot.
As someone interested in game design, and with a few ideas of my own, I'm constantly nit-picking existing systems to see what I like and don't.
But, posting suggestions or asking about house rules is the mark of a green horn, so I guess I lump into that category.
#P
Or to put it another way, it'd be like playing Battletech on a hexmap against someone who makes his hex bases 'in scale with the Battlemechs, if it's supposed to be 30m across then it should be three times as big yeah?'
It's an interesting idea, but it messed with the game so fundamentally that it's damaging to the gameplay.
People have been finding ways to print out 4" hex grid maps to play to-scale with their minis, and I've gone so far as to bash my own set of Map Scale Mech figures.
The only thing that matters in the game is the hex, when it comes to BattleTech. People don't seem to bat an eye at playing with overly large figures that don't fit well in those hexes, and then we get strange comments about ranges from people who didn't catch how big a hex is versus how big a Mech is at the start of the rulebook.
Now to be constructive about what you've given me beyond the 'don't do that' reaction.
Bases: Yes, I'm not overly fond of the idea of going with the smaller base for 'large ships' because it is a lot of extra work that may not be so fun in the end, anyway. Besides, just as the Armada fighters are dwarfed by their bases, the idea that the Millennium Falcon or shuttle should be equally dwarfed by theirs is kinda funny/cute, too.
One of the reasons I thought about the base change was equal parts using extra pieces I have to hand, and cartability. Those extra large bases are not easy to find containers for.
So, I accept your warning about messing around, but my question still stands: Has anyone else played around with tweaks to the game?
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The rebel forces seem to need a ship that can bring in a group of X-wings or whatever like the Imperial Carrier which I am planning on getting soon. But is the Ghost out yet?
Also do any of you play the campaign or run your own style campaign with this game?
I have a few ideas, but I'm still a long ways from making any sort of suggestion beyond a WarChest system, or a personalized progression tree style set-up and squadron rosters.
The big thing I'm stuck on is how to handle pilot quality and improvement as you progress through a string of missions. The card availability for any particular Fighter class is rather limited.
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For example: Attack Wing did something interesting that they didn't do with X-Wing. They assigned the skill level to a separate controller (Captain) whereas in X-Wing, each pilot is slaved to what amounts to a duplicate ship of a class. Maarek Stele was pulled from the Tie Fighter game, and he flew not only Tie/LN but Interceptors and even Gunboats throughout the progression of his career. But, right now, in my collection, he's only in a Tie Advanced.
Luke gets to ride around in a E-Wing in a couple novels. Corran Horn was an X-Wing pilot for the longest time, with his own CorSec painted fighter. The guy from the X-Wing video games got to fly around in pretty much any fighter available to the rebellion.
Leaving aside for a moment that Attack Wing is produced by an entirely different company, it's also mismanaged horribly from a competitive standpoint. Tournament promos are typically outright better than regularly available ships, so if you don't go to the big yearly tournaments at major conventions you are at an explicit disadvantage to someone who did. Having ship captains able to be freely assigned to ships is largely part of what fuels this bad practice, and as a result there are objectively correct and outright better captains to use for the game regardless of any other considerations. You can freely pair them with the 'best' ships and the game is largely solved.
Luke Skywalker's ability is worth more points in an E-wing that it is in his native X-wing. In order to remain balanced, his cost would not be exactly the same as if you took a generic E-wing pilot and simply scaled him up in points to the same relative level as he is more expensive than a generic X-wing pilot. Wedge's ability would be stupidly good in the Ghost, but if the pilot was determined in that fashion it'd be incredibly difficult to price him in such a way that he wouldn't be horribly overpowered in the Ghost, but horribly underpowered in a Y-wing or A-wing.
FFG's approach to X-wing's pilots has done a very good job of keeping the game balanced across all levels of play.
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Leaving aside for a moment that Attack Wing is produced by an entirely different company, it's also mismanaged horribly from a competitive standpoint. Tournament promos are typically outright better than regularly available ships, so if you don't go to the big yearly tournaments at major conventions you are at an explicit disadvantage to someone who did. Having ship captains able to be freely assigned to ships is largely part of what fuels this bad practice, and as a result there are objectively correct and outright better captains to use for the game regardless of any other considerations. You can freely pair them with the 'best' ships and the game is largely solved.
No, the prize ships are available at the store level, the same are prizes at the yearly big torneys, and are generally not any better than retail ships, but the upgrades that come with them can definately be better than anything retail.
And you're right on the money about the captains.
I've played STAW competitively for a year and a half, I won the Collective, Resistance, and Q events and several Episodic ones at Madness, Plano - the same place holding the record of 127 Xwing players for a regional event.
I just started up Xwing and I will say Xwing is the better game, no tweaking needed. STAW on the other hand has several issues.
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Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Trek Attack Wing is by any means perfect. In fact, it's a perfect example of my point that a finished game isn't always going to be balanced. So, why is there a strange reluctance - nay, fear - to look at it and ask if it couldn't be a touch better?
There are still ways to give a pilot the means to move from ship to ship and give him a decent price point and keep him balanced. (I can think of two or three ways to handle it from the get go.) The fact that they haven't means, for whatever reason, FFG hasn't gone to the lengths to discover it. Most likely, it's price point and a deadline.
So, again. Has anyone else thought about tweaks to take advantage of stuff they rarely or don't use, or to give the game a more in-universe feel? Have you tried putting a pilot in a different class ship? What tweaks did you make to the missions to make them interesting or more believable?
Has anyone played around with the notion of a reserve pool for units that go off board? The notion that they're considered destroyed or can't possibly return to the battle always struck me as absurd. Just look at Mission 6 for the Lambda shuttle.
Has anyone tried a more video game style / thunder road approach to running battles and/or a focus fighter and maneuvering the board around it, instead of the whirling melee that can span the entire playing field?
Or, am I asking these too early because we're all still building collections and just testing the waters with our first few games?
Edit: I'll admit that I don't have very many under my belt, so I can understand if it's too early to be thinking about strange things like the above.
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Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Trek Attack Wing is by any means perfect. In fact, it's a perfect example of my point that a finished game isn't always going to be balanced. So, why is there a strange reluctance - nay, fear - to look at it and ask if it couldn't be a touch better?
There are still ways to give a pilot the means to move from ship to ship and give him a decent price point and keep him balanced. (I can think of two or three ways to handle it from the get go.) The fact that they haven't means, for whatever reason, FFG hasn't gone to the lengths to discover it. Most likely, it's price point and a deadline.
So, again. Has anyone else thought about tweaks to take advantage of stuff they rarely or don't use, or to give the game a more in-universe feel? Have you tried putting a pilot in a different class ship? What tweaks did you make to the missions to make them interesting or more believable?
Has anyone played around with the notion of a reserve pool for units that go off board? The notion that they're considered destroyed or can't possibly return to the battle always struck me as absurd. Just look at Mission 6 for the Lambda shuttle.
Has anyone tried a more video game style / thunder road approach to running battles and/or a focus fighter and maneuvering the board around it, instead of the whirling melee that can span the entire playing field?
Or, am I asking these too early because we're all still building collections and just testing the waters with our first few games?
I've been playing this game for nearly three years now, so I think I can say with some authority that I have a pretty good grasp on X-wing inside and out. ^-^ But to address your points more specifically (and please, please don't turn this into a quote chain conversation):
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Trek Attack Wing is by any means perfect. In fact, it's a perfect example of my point that a finished game isn't always going to be balanced. So, why is there a strange reluctance - nay, fear - to look at it and ask if it couldn't be a touch better?
Because in large part, FFG has created a game that has very good balance. Things that are not balanced are revisited in expansion packs for future ships and the various Aces/Veteran packs FFG has produced. Ordnance, long one of the least points effective and most underutilized portions of the game, has in the past two months received massive rebalancing, with more to come in the next wave of ships. A year ago, bringing a torpedo was the surest way in the game to waste points. TIE Defenders have been marginally effective (at best) since their introduction, and are receiving a rebalancing pass in the Imperial Veterans pack due out later this year.
During the life of the game, FFG has periodically released errata in the form of a FAQ PDF that addresses common concerns and unclear card interactions.
There are still ways to give a pilot the means to move from ship to ship and give him a decent price point and keep him balanced. (I can think of two or three ways to handle it from the get go.) The fact that they haven't means, for whatever reason, FFG hasn't gone to the lengths to discover it. Most likely, it's price point and a deadline.
It's not a price point, per se. FFG will make more money releasing new ships and including those pilots with those ships. We should actually see the first intra-faction pilot available for multiple ships in the above mentioned Imperial Aces pack. Maarek Stele appears in the preview as a Defender pilot.
This has been FFG's business model for some time. Fixes are included for older ships in the expansion packs for newer ships. Autothrusters was the fix for many arc-dodgers when large turrets were a dominant part of the tournament metagame, and came in the StarViper expansion, for example. Is it designed to keep players happy? Not in the slightest. Does it work? Hell yes it does. :P
So, again. Has anyone else thought about tweaks to take advantage of stuff they rarely or don't use, or to give the game a more in-universe feel? Have you tried putting a pilot in a different class ship? What tweaks did you make to the missions to make them interesting or more believable?
Insert Herb's Standard Answer #1 here. I can't honestly make much comment here because I play mostly tournament style games. I do semi-frequently theorycraft what cards I'd like to see next, or pilot abilities for new pilots, or the like, though. It's a mixed bag, and you'll probably not get the same answer from any two different players.
Has anyone played around with the notion of a reserve pool for units that go off board? The notion that they're considered destroyed or can't possibly return to the battle always struck me as absurd. Just look at Mission 6 for the Lambda shuttle.
I'm 100% sure that units aren't allowed to come back on the board because it would be a cheap-ass way to keep a critical ship from avoiding any damage whatsoever (can't get hit if you don't get shot at) while still forcing your opponent to respect its presence on the board. FFG's games are balanced around tournaments (I'd say for good reason), and that'd be actively harmful to a tournament game.
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Daemion, I don't think XWM setup is a case of lack of resources, but rather a conscious choice based off of a desire to build a carefully-balanced competitive game specifically designed to be played in game stores. FFG/Asmodee has stated multiple times that their philosophy is that they make more money when their games are played in public rather than the home, and the design of X-wing plays nicely into that. Heck even the Epic-base ships are essentially designed to be a visual marketing piece to draw attention to the game, even if they are released under the guise of Fan Service.
Even setting that aside, I don't think you are going to get a MtG-like tinkering experience just because of the inherently different production/supply chains. Cards are relatively quick, cheap and easy to design and produce and in a pinch can be air shipped relatively cheaply. XWM, OTOH, is essentially a game mechanic you have to polish plus a detailed model kit that you have to design in 3D, mill injection molds for, set up an assembly line for and then also send to a painting line before sending it to packaging. Then you cap the experience off by packing it in a shipping container and waiting the months it takes to cross the planet. Having watched several companies do the exact same thing, if you can get your lead time under a year, you are doing exceptionally well. That lead time makes it all but impossible to be as flexible as MtG.
As for house rules I've considered, I've thought of various ways to make the game more 3D without having to get as complicated as S.I.T.S. In the end though, I play with a very casual gamer crowd who are far more concerned with ease of use and consistency than with the hassle of tweaking game until it feels right (which is such a subjective concept anyway).
-Jackmc
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My TFA starter set in yesterday and took the new TIE/FO's out for a spin.
With the addition of the Sengir's Loop (think a banked K-Turn), they are like ticks at range 2 or less. They can come in on a forward firing pass, execute a move 2 S Loop and take another shot and then since thier move 2 Banks are green, they can shed the stress point and then rinse lather and repeat. The only defense is to boost away at high speed, but with a proper swarm, that's suboptimal as there should be at least one Eyeball that can pursue. These guys just might be the answer to solver the YT-2400 Doughnut Hole Dilemma.
-Jackmc
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The Sengnor's Loop, while definitely an improvement over having only a k-turn, is arguably inferior to the Tallon Roll on the T-70. Especially when you consider bringing Ello Atsy, who treats Tallon Rolls as white as long as he has no stress tokens, meaning he can turn around and perform actions like boosts all day long without even needing to perform a green maneuver in between.
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Yeah, that'd be nasty.
-Jackmc
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Reading the forums over at FFG how do people create custom cards is what I am curious?
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It's not a price point, per se. FFG will make more money releasing new ships and including those pilots with those ships. We should actually see the first intra-faction pilot available for multiple ships in the above mentioned Imperial Aces pack. Maarek Stele appears in the preview as a Defender pilot.
This was one avenue I was hoping they'd go. After all, It would be nice to see Corran's X-Wing in its CorSec Green and White, without me having to paint it.
It's too bad they have to take so long. I personally wouldn't have been to averse to Card and Base packs.
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yeah, on the FFG forums there are a lot of people who would like a "rebel veterans" pack with a recolored X-wing and pilots like Corran Horn and Tycho Celchu made available in X-wings. and a green/white recolor seems to be the crowd favorite.
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I hope the rebel veterans does get released. But GB how do they do the custom cards I haven't asked that question over there
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More than likely, Photoshop or Gimp.
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I hope the rebel veterans does get released. But GB how do they do the custom cards I haven't asked that question over there
The first result on google search for "X-wing miniatures custom card". (http://cardcreator.atelierdufaucon.com/#$)
It's in French, but it's not hard to figure out what things do or how to change them. It only has ship silhouettes up to Wave 4, though. That's probably not entirely necessary for just creating your own pilots for existing ships.
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I'm sure that if you wanted to dedicate the time, scanning the appropriate card and modding it in some sort of art program wouldn't be too hard.
You could do the same with any base template, too.
But, it's a lot of work.
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well that clarifies that for me because I suck at art and modding stuff on the pc
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The start of my own fleet..
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/glitterboy2098/games/IMG_20160115_194926_zps5lmnyeyy.jpg)
(sorry for the glare.. without flash images are too dark. with they're glare filled. annoying phone. :( )
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The E-wing is a nasty little beast. My friend used that against me and his daughter when we played our 1st game.
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The E-Wing is my favorite fighter from the expanded series.
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By the way, if people are wanting to store X-Wing/Armada stuff without shelling out for those big foam trays and whatnot, I'm finding this guy's work (http://www.sirwillibald.com/?lang=en) to be very useful.
Those plus Really Useful Boxes are excellent; my printer can't get do the thicker stock paper, though.
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i had a choice between the Ewing and a Z95. both had good cards. i went with the Ewing because it had more stuff the Xwing could use, and because the Ewing itself is a pretty good ship.
still trying to figure out what my next purchases should be once i get the funds.. Z95's would be good to add a lower cost fighter option, but the rebels have a bunch of good ships.
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You could always go for a YT 1300 or 2400 so you could do a Fat Han or Doughnut of Doom build.
-Jackmc
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i had a choice between the Ewing and a Z95. both had good cards. i went with the Ewing because it had more stuff the Xwing could use, and because the Ewing itself is a pretty good ship.
still trying to figure out what my next purchases should be once i get the funds.. Z95's would be good to add a lower cost fighter option, but the rebels have a bunch of good ships.
Based on my experience, I'd get another E-wing over a z95. They're cheap but don't last long. I can't recomend the Y-wing enough, the turrets are a pain for your opponents. I faced a list of 4 Y-wings all with twin laser turrets, that was a tough force to beat.
If you really want a z, get the Scum and Villany pack, 2 zs and a Y for a reduced cost than getting them separate.
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the most wanted pack is tempting because i already have a HWK-290, so i could probably field a full force right off. but to be honest, i'm not fond of how most of the S&V ships look, and i'm not sure about branching out to a new faction so quickly
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i had a choice between the Ewing and a Z95. both had good cards. i went with the Ewing because it had more stuff the Xwing could use, and because the Ewing itself is a pretty good ship.
still trying to figure out what my next purchases should be once i get the funds.. Z95's would be good to add a lower cost fighter option, but the rebels have a bunch of good ships.
I'd recommend either Rebel Aces or the Millenium Falcon. The thing to think about is the cards you get with it too. Rebel Aces comes with 3 Chardaan Refits, which drop the cost of an A-Wing by 2; that puts the cost of a Prototype Pilot to 15 for a 'swarm' effect. Plus, a B-wing or three can be pretty effective.
The Falc not only has the Falcon (the core of a now-classic but still useful strategy called Fat Han) but Shield Upgrade, a kinda vital card, especially when combined with the R2-D2 Astromech.
Y-Wings are also really good, though. Turrets are effective.
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Well like the Y-wing the K-wing has turrets but it has 2 one under the cockpit the other behind. But man the K-wing lacks in the Y-wing maneuverability.
Now for a major question here, in regards to the 100 points is that pretty much for tournament or even in non standard tournament games say just between friends do you have to use that as well? The reason why I am asking is that I built a squadron of Tie Interceptors with Soontir Fel and one of the Imperial aces pilots plus the Lt. from that same pack and one more from the Tie Interceptor expansion pack. So I know my squadron is over 100 points but I asked if a squadron is set up for 4 or how do they have the squadron's set up?
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Well like the Y-wing the K-wing has turrets but it has 2 one under the cockpit the other behind. But man the K-wing lacks in the Y-wing maneuverability.
Now for a major question here, in regards to the 100 points is that pretty much for tournament or even in non standard tournament games say just between friends do you have to use that as well? The reason why I am asking is that I built a squadron of Tie Interceptors with Soontir Fel and one of the Imperial aces pilots plus the Lt. from that same pack and one more from the Tie Interceptor expansion pack. So I know my squadron is over 100 points but I asked if a squadron is set up for 4 or how do they have the squadron's set up?
A standard game is 100 points, not the number of ships.
the most wanted pack is tempting because i already have a HWK-290, so i could probably field a full force right off. but to be honest, i'm not fond of how most of the S&V ships look, and i'm not sure about branching out to a new faction so quickly
you don't need to branch out, you can use those ships as rebels, provided you have the rebel stats. Or once you have a rebel ship, you can augment with these.
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A game is always 100 points in tournaments, no exceptions - you can go 'under' to win initiative, but going over is strictly verboten.
Playing among friends is your own deal, and around here I'm gradually winning people over to my idea that 100 points is half a real force, with 200 points being a REAL force (like, an entire squadron) instead of just 4-8 ships.
Epic level games are a blatant cash-grab, and I noticed that all of the Huge ships are 100 points, meaning that... the real game is set up for 200 points being a real force. Humm....
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A game is always 100 points in tournaments, no exceptions - you can go 'under' to win initiative, but going over is strictly verboten.
Playing among friends is your own deal, and around here I'm gradually winning people over to my idea that 100 points is half a real force, with 200 points being a REAL force (like, an entire squadron) instead of just 4-8 ships.
Epic level games are a blatant cash-grab, and I noticed that all of the Huge ships are 100 points, meaning that... the real game is set up for 200 points being a real force. Humm....
We've shifted to 150 points when we want slightly bigger. It has a nice balance. Epic games are 300 and without the huge ships, unwieldy.
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As soon as Ghost drops, I think I'm going to build a "Teamsters" Epic List consisting of the GR-75. HWK-290, VCX-100, YT 2400 and YT 1300 and see if I can build it into a decent force.
Epic level games are a blatant cash-grab, and I noticed that all of the Huge ships are 100 points, meaning that... the real game is set up for 200 points being a real force. Humm....
Not really a blatant cash grab, based off the price point and limited number sold, I suspect that they are sold at a price point designed so that FFG/Asmodee roughly breaks even, though it is entirely possible that they are intentionally sold at a loss (ie. loss leaders).
What they really are is a marketing tool that visually catches the attention of people passing by rather than those directly playing the game. This is a similar tactic to what GW and Privateer have been doing the past few years, where they've been been diligently adding a huge and striking centerpiece unit for each faction.
-Jackmc
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you don't need to branch out, you can use those ships as rebels, provided you have the rebel stats. Or once you have a rebel ship, you can augment with these.
well, the downside there is that the most wanted pack only has Scum&villainy cards and gear. the models can be used as rebels (and probably would represent the early rebellion well) but i'd have to get the rebel Y-wing and Z-95 expansions to use them as rebels.
honestly the idea of building a Scum list isn't abhorrent to me, but with my limited funds for the near future, i'm trying to balance "what looks cool" with "what is the most cost effective purchase", with the latter trending more towards "under $20" as an added factor. (though if i can find a better paying part time job this might change)
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well, the downside there is that the most wanted pack only has Scum&villainy cards and gear. the models can be used as rebels (and probably would represent the early rebellion well) but i'd have to get the rebel Y-wing and Z-95 expansions to use them as rebels.
honestly the idea of building a Scum list isn't abhorrent to me, but with my limited funds for the near future, i'm trying to balance "what looks cool" with "what is the most cost effective purchase", with the latter trending more towards "under $20" as an added factor. (though if i can find a better paying part time job this might change)
Then I honestly and fully recommend the Millenium Falcon. Yes, it's $30, but by itself is the core of a solid force. I've seen one effective Fat Han build have just the Falcon and an A-Wing.
Me, I'm in the same boat, which is why I'm lamenting my choice of the Imperial forces (well, not really a choice, I thought I'd be buying slowly and traded the starter set X-Wing for two TIEs), because the more effective builds are swarm-related.
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Well Heavygun who got me into this game has 2 younger daughters 6 and 9 and the oldest 22 years who love this game as well. We talked about advancing the rules little by little so that the 2 youngest can understand. However the 9 year old didn't play tonight so it was me and the 22 year old vs the 6 year old and heavygun. We introduced focus and target lock, focus does help out and so does the evade token. It was frustrating Heavygun and his 6 year old because both myself and his 22 year old would use the focus and evade to help them wipe out the hits. However because I was using a Tie Interceptor I had no shields so it really didn't take long for me to get taken out and you should have seen the smile on the little one's face when she got her first kill.
Anyways I personally would like to be able to start using this towards a campaign setting but its slow go because its only Heavygun and his daughters who I play this game with. But need to start using more of the rules including advanced rules.
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Played a couple games today, and learned several things.
First, I can safely ignore all those people who advise against loading up a Punisher to the brim because 'it won't love long enough to shoot everything'. Mine was hauling Plasma Torpedoes, Cluster Missiles, Ion Bombs, Cluster Mines, AND Extra Munitions, and in both games, I ran it dry of all but one or two bomb salvos. Definitely need to find another set of Cluster Mine tokens, though.
Second, Redline is an evil heartless bastard, and with FCS, the only time he loses his target lock(s!!) on you is when you die, or someone more interesting presents themself.
Finally, I really need to practice flying TIE Interceptors more often. They fold in no time when caught in front of someone, but when I can keep them out of firing arcs, they're brutal.
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First, I can safely ignore all those people who advise against loading up a Punisher to the brim because 'it won't love long enough to shoot everything'. Mine was hauling Plasma Torpedoes, Cluster Missiles, Ion Bombs, Cluster Mines, AND Extra Munitions, and in both games, I ran it dry of all but one or two bomb salvos. Definitely need to find another set of Cluster Mine tokens, though.
I'm going to go out on a limb and call this an opponent fault. The reason you avoid loading up a Punisher to the gills is that it should be the first thing they shoot at. If your opponents didn't, it's kinda like expecting a Fafnir refitted with twin AC/20s. Yes, it will kill anything its size and smaller with contemptuous ease, but the moment your opponents realize it's a threat, and furthermore than it's maximum threat range is trivial it will die uselessly.
I have never allowed a Punisher flown against me to fire more than two torpedoes/missiles/bombs. My local group is pretty thick with them.
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Finally, I really need to practice flying TIE Interceptors more often. They fold in no time when caught in front of someone, but when I can keep them out of firing arcs, they're brutal.
This. Interceptors should always be coming from the side or behind, never the front. A-Wings are the same way...but A-Wings are also useful to play bumper cars with. Put the A-wing in the flight path of your opponent's ship so then end up touching. Messes up their plans big time. Be careful as bumper cars can back-fire on you real quick.
Oh...and a fully loaded K-Wing with Conner nets, mines or bombs, and advanced SLAM are just plain evil. I love these buggers.
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...furthermore than it's maximum threat range is trivial...
Bwuh? What's stopping you from pumping out plasma torpedoes from just as far out as any laser?
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This. Interceptors should always be coming from the side or behind, never the front. A-Wings are the same way...but A-Wings are also useful to play bumper cars with. Put the A-wing in the flight path of your opponent's ship so then end up touching. Messes up their plans big time. Be careful as bumper cars can back-fire on you real quick.
Oh...and a fully loaded K-Wing with Conner nets, mines or bombs, and advanced SLAM are just plain evil. I love these buggers.
Yes but when a ship like the Falcon or a Y-wing or K-wing because of the turrets the TIE Interceptor is useless
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My idea there is to equip as many of my squints as possible with Outmaneuver. Try to circle the turret units at long range, then dash in from the sides or rear. Sure the threat to me is unchanged, but at least I've got a better chance of taking a big chunk out of that Y-Wing. Might also try what works often enough in Battletech, and distract them by shoving something big and nasty like a Punisher or Decimator down their throats.
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Bwuh? What's stopping you from pumping out plasma torpedoes from just as far out as any laser?
The hypothetical AC/20 refit Fafnir, not the Punisher. :P
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Ah. Yeah, I was keeping the Punisher around the edges of the fight, while my Interceptors dove in the middle and kept things busy in a furball. While they lasted, they were pretty good at keeping at least some attention diverted from the Punisher. Might try a Defender and some cheap TIEs next time, to add some durability and more numbers to my distraction.
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Solid TIE/In usage practically requires Autothrusters, which lets you turn one blank agility die to an Evade if you're at Range 2; the most commonly used (and probably best) TIE/In pilot is Soontir Fel + Push the Limit (if you do an action, perform another action in your bar, then get a stress) + Autothrusters because you can keep a constant focus token on him by pulling a green action (removing a stress token), doing two actions (usually Barrel Roll/Boost for positioning and Evade for durability), which puts a Stress Token on Soontir, which gives him a free Focus with which to dodge better... stacking a ton of dodging ability.
Stacking further with Royal Guard Tie (gives +1 modification) and Stealth Device (Gives +1 agility, discarded after being hit) makes him near-impossible to hit at Range 2.
The only problem is that thanks to how FFG packages the cards, the only way to get Autothrusters is to buy a Starviper, which means if you give no damns about Scum and Villainy you're paying $15 for 6 upgrade cards you can use. It's one of the things I like and dislike about how FFG does the upgrades (and in some cases, pilots), how sometimes you have to buy a ship just for one or two cards inside. Autothrusters is one of the few upgrades that is limited to one ship from one faction that a LOT of ships from every faction uses.
Usually they're pretty good about packaging cards in at least one of a faction's ships so that if you want something specific at least you're not buying a non-faction ship, but Autothrusters... ugh.
Sorry. I've been playing a lot with a guy's collection who wants to be a top-level tournament player, and he's... the kind of guy who teaches someone else to play just to have someone to beat, ya know? Since he can't beat me (seriously, I'm up like 7-3 on him, despite only starting last September) he won't let me use his stuff any more, and I'm carefully planning my collection so I have to buy a minimum of stuff (being poor, and only playing the game socially, I don't want to drop $500 into it!)
I've been looking a lot into what packs have what cards so I know exactly what to buy and the Autothrusters thing kinda annoyed me. Especially because there've been 3 Imperial and 3 Rebel small packs, a new Core Set, AND a Huge ship released since the Starviper came out and Autothrusters became the hottest item around, plenty of chances to include it in a non-Scum ship.
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Sorry. I've been playing a lot with a guy's collection who wants to be a top-level tournament player, and he's... the kind of guy who teaches someone else to play just to have someone to beat, ya know? Since he can't beat me (seriously, I'm up like 7-3 on him, despite only starting last September) he won't let me use his stuff any more, and I'm carefully planning my collection so I have to buy a minimum of stuff (being poor, and only playing the game socially, I don't want to drop $500 into it!)
Guy sounds like a real douche-nozzle. He'll never be top tier with an attitude like that and not learning from his mistakes, no matter how big his collection gets.
No one else to play with?
Im actually building a collection myself, looking at the Aces packs.
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I don't play in tournaments and don't intend too. I like playing for fun but this game has a few campaign style ideas spinning in my head.
On a legit question what is considered a Squadron is it 3 or 4 fighters?
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I don't play in tournaments and don't intend too. I like playing for fun but this game has a few campaign style ideas spinning in my head.
On a legit question what is considered a Squadron is it 3 or 4 fighters?
That would be a Flight. A Squadron is 3 - 4 Flights.
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Oh ok. The rules really are not clear about that. I am still needing more clarification then how the points are to be earned and to be used in just game play.
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Oh ok. The rules really are not clear about that. I am still needing more clarification then how the points are to be earned and to be used in just game play.
Sorry, thought you were talking real-world. This game uses Squadron Points to build your force, so whatever your force is, is the "Squadron", bet it 2 ships or 7.
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Guy sounds like a real douche-nozzle. He'll never be top tier with an attitude like that and not learning from his mistakes, no matter how big his collection gets.
No one else to play with?
Im actually building a collection myself, looking at the Aces packs.
Oh, there's lots to play with up here, and that's why I'm bothering to build a collection at all. Which side you building, Imperial or Alliance? I'm going Imperial, by default. Quickest way to a solid force is a turreted ship.
I'd PREFER if people played Battletech/Alpha Strike - or the Ninja All-Stars game coming out, the store is going to try to make a league of it - but X-Wing has them by the nadgers so I'm infiltrating the group to win them over to Battletech as well. Not like you can't do both.
I don't really dislike the guy, I've met too many wargamers over the years who have the exact same attitude so I let it roll off me, but it is kind of annoying to hit that point. At least we're earning enough money this month that a couple of dollars aren't gonna break us. I just want to plan it carefully and keep the expenditures in a game I don't hate or love to a minimum.
How long that lasts, we'll see. They are very nice minis, aren't they?
I also think I'd prefer the fleet-scale game, if they start putting out more minis for that. Only played it once, though.
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Sorry, thought you were talking real-world. This game uses Squadron Points to build your force, so whatever your force is, is the "Squadron", bet it 2 ships or 7.
Ok because I thought it was specifically for the fighters and the ships like the tanative IV or the imperial raider would be considered different
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Mauler lived up to its name tonight. Caught a Jake Farell A-wing without any defense tokens and one-shot'ed him. Rolled three Crits and Jake rolled two blanks and a eyeball and then drew a Direct Hit from the damage deck. If my math is right, that works out to a roughly 1 in 20,000 shot (Me: 1/8 x 1/8 x 1/8)*(Him 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2)*(Damage Deck: 7/33).
Ok because I thought it was specifically for the fighters and the ships like the tanative IV or the imperial raider would be considered different
It is. The Huge Base class ships are not allowed in regular play level (100 squadron points). Instead, the Huge bases come out in either Epic play (200+ squadron points) or Scenario play (points vary).
-Jackmc
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There are three blank results on evade dice, not two.
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@jackmc thank you sir
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There are three blank results on evade dice, not two.
Yeah, three blanks and an eyeball so he had a 50/50 chance of rolling and evade on each dice so the odds of not rolling one was 12.5%
-Jackmc
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No. Three blanks and two focus results.
Red: 1 Crit, 3 Hit, 2 Focus, 2 Blank
Green: 3 Evade, 2 Focus, 3 Blank
This is why red dice are more reliable than green dice.
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No. Three blanks and two focus results.
Red: 1 Crit, 3 Hit, 2 Focus, 2 Blank
Green: 3 Evade, 2 Focus, 3 Blank
This is why red dice are more reliable than green dice.
Ah, so that jacks up the odds a bit more. Only a 1 in 10,000 shot?
-Jackmc
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Since he had two shields, your two crits were functionally just hits. You'd have had the exact same results with normal hits. The probability of the shot with all crits is (1/8)^3 * (5/8)^3 * (7/33) -> (1/512) * (125/512) * (7/33) -> final probability of 0.0001 (exactly 1 in 9887).
The same probability with at least one crit and two hits is (1/8) * (1/2)^2 * (5/8)^3 * (7/33) -> (1/32) * (125/512) * (7/33) -> final probability of 0.0016, or roughly one in 617.
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My Gozanti arrived in the mail today and my First impression is OMG. With the various upgrade cards, FFG/Asmodee has ported the RL Kiev class aircraft cruiser into the game. This is going to be a fun ship to play with!
[a bit later]
Finally got some free time to monkey around with things. For 195 pts you can have Gozanti, Cpt. Jonus and 3 Tie Bombers.
However, I got to looking at the Ordinance Tubes card and it isn't a Gozanti-only card. The Raider has three hardpoints so that's going to be about as close as you can get to a Macross-style missile spam in XWM.
[even later]
For 200 pts even you can get:
Cpt. Needa driving around a Raider w/ Ordinance Tubes, Automated Protocols, Proton Torpedoes fore and aft, Cluster missiles aft, and a tac crew consisting of a Gunnery Team led by a Weapons Engineer
Cpt. Jonus w/ Extra munitions, Guidance Chipped Proton Torps and Swarm Tactics
The Emperor joyriding around with Col. Jendon in ST-321 which is souped up with a Tractor Beam and Tac Jammer.
-Jackmc
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My Gozanti arrived in the mail today and my First impression is OMG. With the various upgrade cards, FFG/Asmodee has ported the RL Kiev class aircraft cruiser into the game. This is going to be a fun ship to play with!
That's not a surprise considering in EU, Gozanti is often used to piggy-back TIEs.
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That's not a surprise considering in EU, Gozanti is often used to back-piggy TIEs.
Yeah, and with that title that allows you to drop all of them in one turn, it shelters them from long range sniping and then lets them kick in the door. Was kind of sad that Boarding Tubes didn't allow all TIEs to use them, or mix and match, though.
What it meant more by the Kiev comment though was that the Kiev was a ship that carried some huge misisles that were backed up by a small aircraft contingent. Ordinance Tubes allows the Gozanti to trade it's laser for /unlmitd/ missiles or bombs.
-Jackmc
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The is more of a larger scale game coming out form Fantasy Flight Games called Star Wars Rebellion. Looks really interesting lets see what it has. Just FFG has some slow releases of products.
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It looks ok, but I really would have preferred a reskin of Twilight Imperium that incorporated the best of the add-on packs.
-Jackmc
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The start of my own fleet..
Now, I've seen them in stores every once in a while, but not often: What is that brown monstrosity?
Is it specifically rebel, or is it fringe?
Second question: Anybody have a list of the different releases, or where I can find one?
Thanks.
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Now, I've seen them in stores every once in a while, but not often: What is that brown monstrosity?
Is it specifically rebel, or is it fringe?
It's a Hawk, from the Dark Forces computer games. And IIRC it can be used by Scum
Second question: Anybody have a list of the different releases, or where I can find one?
Thanks.
There's an X-Wing minis Wikia which has all the releases sorted by wave, and you can see stats, what cards come in what packs, and relevant FAQs there.
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It's a Hawk, from the Dark Forces computer games. And IIRC it can be used by Scum
The Hawk expansion pack is a Rebel ship, Scum have some pilots for it that come in the Most Wanted pack.
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Thanks.
Now. One other question about game-play in general:
In the novels and in the movies and shows, we generally see large clusters of matching fighters duking it out, with few actual support vessels mixed in.
Is it only possible to play that way, or can this still work as a viable thing without too many losses? Or, is this turning into what you get with standard BattleTech or RPG team mixing, where the best forces are the ones that have a little bit of everything?
Basically, how wise is it to play to the fiction in your force-building?
For example: the Star Wars Wiki - and some EU novels like the X-Wing series - show that a full fighter squadron is generally 12 fighters. Rogue Squadron was always a 12 fighter squadron of X-Wings often deployed in flights of 3 or 4.
They would often have to face down very large swarms of Tie/Ln (eyeballs) and Tie/In (squints).
How effective is either general deployment in the X-Wing game? Or is it a losing proposition against, shall we say, something of a mixed bag - like an idealized Ghost Squadron, or some ad-hoc raider/defender task force for the particular faction?
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[Edited to revise the first sentence since the original version unintentionally came across as rude or curt -J]
The best thing you can do to wrap your head around XWM is get traditional squadrons out of your head.
First, a standard 100 pt force in XWM will range from 2 to 8 ships at most with the average being towards the lower end for Rebels and mid to higher end for Imps.
Second, there's not really a truly homogenous force. You might run with 3 X-wings or 8 TIE/Ln's but most of them will be different from one another whether it is from different named pilots or what gear they are carrying.
-Jackmc
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Yes, the weird thing about the point value is that the closest thing to in-universe fights with a squadron or so and some support ships is the Epic level of gameplay at 300 points, and it's kind of rare to see anyone do it because there's so much focus on the tournaments. No one wants to play it because "Tournaments for it aren't done," at least up here.
I actually don't much care for the standard level for the same reason I don't like playing Battletech with just a piddly lance on each side: it doesn't really represent the universe's battles very well.
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I would argue that's mostly true for the Imperials but for the Rebels, large actions were the exception rather than the rule and many of their missions were strikes flown with only a handful of craft rather than squadron-level engagements.
to me, XWM really captures the feel of the original X-wing video game at least on the rebel side.
-Jackmc
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And the smaller scale can also be justified as being a single dogfight between several craft in a much larger battle. It'd be cool to have a playmat shaped like a capitol ship's surface, with the asteroids replaced by antennae/turbolaser batteries/other objects.
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I've seen pictures of someone trying to make a table of the command section of an Imperial Star Destroyer. I, myself, have visions of completing such a table for myself some day, as well.
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the guy who built this has said he'd be open to producing them for sale if he can get permissions.
(http://www.gamecrate.com/sites/default/files/field/image/ces-2016-newegg-hardware-pc-gaming-28.jpg)
http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/220147-the-force-is-with-this-amazing-star-destroyer-pc-chassis
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This was what I recall seeing, and this might be how I start, too.
(http://boardgamegeek.com/camo/6084e12da4fc6f1c7544a8c1259826e6cb7f98a3/687474703a2f2f693135392e70686f746f6275636b65742e636f6d2f616c62756d732f743133332f706574655f7061726b6572682f582d57696e672f44343839303635442d314144462d343339322d393443322d3632303641313433434433332d333633382d303030303034324137434230343231432e6a7067)
Or, maybe something more like this:
(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic2626183_md.jpg)
However, this does look cool, too. However, it's too small for proper scale play with X-Wing.
(http://www.modelermagic.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/IMG_3570-500x375.jpg)
It would be kinda fun to do a Thunder Road like post movement phase with something like this where All Figures on the playing area are displaced by how the SD moves. The, you could have accidental collisions with the superstructure, or some units get put in reserve because they're taken off the playing area.
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Other people have been looking to older Star Wars toys to fill in for other ships, or come up with models of their own:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v429/BulldogUK/Album%202/Rebelfleet3_zpse7e20bfc.jpg)
That Kenner Blockade Runner looks like it aught to be just right.
Would save me from having to try to bash something like that from scratch.
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If you want to be competitive, just shell out the money for the XWM Tantive IV(Blockade Runner) as it has some pretty crucial cards.
To me the sad thing with the Epic scale ships is that I've measured them and with a different style of attachment strut (essentially a right triangle style), you could have them be true scale on their existing bases. I'd have been willing to pay a bit more for true scale versions.
-Jackmc
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My CR 90 Tantative IV and Imperial Carrier have arrived at my FLGS but I can't pick them up till next week when I get paid. The republic cruiser in the photo looks great where did you get that? It looks like it would be to scale?
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Some people on Shapeways do a lot of REALLY good stuff for X-Wing and Armada.
That being said, please don't post pics of any of them or links, as a favor to us mods. :)
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Also Space Rocks.uk received a cease and desist from Disney for the efforts.
The game play recap for Daemion's middle picture is slightly amusing because about halfway through the players realized the Star Destroyer shouldn't be allowed to dodge.
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That is some great stuff there.
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So finally played my 1st official 100 point game with a guy's brother who I met on the FFG forums. Lost but it was a lot of fun and learned a lot about this game
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Is it possible to build a playable list that includes a Decimator, Punisher, AND Bomber?
The idea is to go completely ordnance-happy, and be able to make poop jokes all day each time I drop bombs of any kind.
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Since I can't get love from Leviathans at the moment, I have started pouring funds into SW: Armada. I LOVE IT. The scale, the detail, the need to pulverize family members of a table. It is all win.
I had never beaten my wife in any game EVER. Ask Knightmare just how brutal that lady is. Not even the entire Free Worlds League saved him that game.
So the other night, we open up two core sets and have at it. I was Imperial and she was thinking naval tactics 101, and crossed my Victory-class Star Destroyers' T with two Nebulon-B's. The first crumpled, the second came apart the following round and then I tag teamed the CR-90 and swept up the remaining X-Wings.
IT WAS GLORIOUS and I remind her at every turn. Now I just need to stay ahead of her scary learning curve.
More ships are on the way, but over here in OZ at the moment, the ISD, Rogues, MC80 and Raider are all out of stock. I wants my ISD's so I can gain more bragging rights.
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So...should I give you a few more games before hinting to her that Nebbie-Bs are the snipers of the rebel fleet, and that Assault FFs are their line bruisers? :)
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Nebulons should never cross a T. Their sides are so fragile it's pathetic....I don't use Neb-Bs anymore.
My FLGS had their Armada game night on Saturday, my list was:
MC80 -> Defiance -> Ackbar -> Enhanced Armament
Assault Frigate MkII A -> Paragon -> Gunnery Team
MC30 Scout Frigate -> Redundant Shields -> Gunnery Team -> Advanced Concussion Missiles -> X17 turbolasers
3 squads of X-Wings
My first game was against a Gladiator, 4 Raiders, Vader, Fel, Dengar and an Advanced Tie.
With Paragon, if you attack a ship that has already activated you get an extra Black die.
With Defiance, you get a die of any color (why wouldn't you use black?)
The Gladiator went down in 1 round. It was shot by all 3 of my ships using Ackbar's broadside shots....
The raiders went down like popcorn.
My 2nd game, which didn't count as it was against the EO (we only had 2 people show :( ).
I faced an ISD, 2 Gladiators and Vader, Fel, Dengar and an Advanced Tie.
The ISD killed my MC30 and Assault Frigate, but suffered 4 damage from ramming. My MC80 then killed the ISD with 3 broadsides after killing 1 gladiator.
His other gladiator survived because it was out of range, it was hurt though, no sheilds and it couldn't regen sheilds due to a Crit.
He won the scenario by 10 points.
Still, it proved just how brutal Paragon and Defiance are; oh, your ship activated already? I get an extra black die, in addition to 2 extra red from Ackbar.
My MC80 had enhanced armament as well. so I was throwing 4+2+1 red and 1 black at long range and if I had a concentrate firepower command? That's 8 red and 1 black. I was also able to lock out his ISD's Brace with every shot. Brutal, just brutal. And I loved it because I usually lose to this guy (technically I lost but he was very aware of how close it was), he's very good and I'm not sure I'll be able to pull the same stuff against him again.
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Wait. How did you use black dice at long range? ???
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Wait. How did you use black dice at long range? ???
Because the die is added to the attack pool (and not the armament), it can be used at any range. Official FAQ: Attacks (page 1).
Q: When a ship resolves an ability that allows it to add dice to the attack pool, can it add those dice if their color is not normally appropriate for the range of the attack?
A: Yes. The range restriction on dice color applies only when dice are gathered during the “Roll Attack Dice” step of an attack.
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That's completely messed up, but...okay.
I need to find this faq.
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That's completely messed up, but...okay.
I need to find this faq.
Now, in order to utilize it, you still need to be able to target the ship. If you have no shot at long range, you can't shoot, period. You only get to add dice to the pool if you would be able to shoot without the additional dice.
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/star-wars-armada/
https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/d4/ee/d4eef29c-0edb-4e7c-bddb-cba5f3e80eb1/armada_faq_v2.pdf
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Oh, THAT link, the one my phone refuses to download from.
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I might be getting into Armada eventually it looks like a great game to play.
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I might be getting into Armada eventually it looks like a great game to play.
Im going to get into it too. They play it a lot at the FLGS in the area, so finding a game would not be that hard to find.
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So...should I give you a few more games before hinting to her that Nebbie-Bs are the snipers of the rebel fleet, and that Assault FFs are their line bruisers? :)
Shoosh you, she will work it out soon enough. I have been reading every AAR and article I can find just to stay ahead of her freakish ability to learn the intricacies of a game inside 1 hour. I married a bloody gaming savant.
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With Paragon, if you attack a ship that has already activated you get an extra Black die.
With Defiance, you get a die of any color (why wouldn't you use black?)
Paragon is wrong. You get a Black dice on a ship you have already attacked. That means you have either be playing advanced gunnery as the second player or be able to double arc a ship. Defiance gives to the extra dice of any color for a ship that has already activated. Paragon is difficult to get activated since it has to be double arced, but Defiance is some sweet awesomeness. Don't forget with Defiance you can get a second black dice with a Concentrate Fire command because of the way the dice is added to your attack pool.
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Okay, I take back what I said about FFG being 'pretty good' about including cards in all factions so customers can buy blisters without needing to cross factions.
They are, in fact, terrible about it.
Engine Upgrade? Not available in Imperial pack. Autothrusters? Only in a Scum pack. Experimental Interface? only in a large Rebel pack. Advanced Sensors? Not in a Scum pack. Gunner? Not for Scum, and only in a mediocre Imperial ship (Slave 1). Predator? Not for Rebels (yet). Veteran Instincts? Only for Scum if they buy a Slave 1. Push the Limit? Not for Scum, and not with any ships they can use with the upgrade pack! Wingman? Not for Imperials!
I'm not really counting newer cards like Twin Laser Turret because they haven't had much chance to include it in a pack yet, but Engine Upgrade, Veteran Instincts, and Push The Limit (three cards considered the core of most upgrade decks) have been around since wave two. Kind of annoying that they aren't in more packs, almost as though they're spreading around the cards so that the good ships don't have the good cards.
I mean, it's good business sense, and if I wasn't financially strapped I'd be glad to buy a Falcon and get the engine upgrade, along with assorted other ships (rather have a YT2400 than a Slave 1), but right now it kinda hurts. Oh well, I have friends I can borrow from.
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They are getting better about distributing upgrade cards like how Extra Munitions was with both the Imperial and Rebel heavy bombers. But yeah frustrating otherwise, like having to buy Epic scale ships for C3PO or better TIE/Adv titles.
-Jackmc
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They're definitely far from perfect in this regard, but it's also clear they tend to listen to their fanbase. My advice would be to talk about it on their forums, and then be patient. If enough people ask for it, I'm confident it'll come eventually.
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and then be patient.
Yeah, that's an important part. The product cycle is so slow there's a significant amount of lag on anything they do.
As someone else here mentioned, I really wish they'd do a cards and bases only pack because that could be done by their US-based printers and have a much quicker turn around than having to commission 3D models, have molds cut, get the ships assembled and painted and then import from China.
-Jackmc
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Paragon is wrong. You get a Black dice on a ship you have already attacked. That means you have either be playing advanced gunnery as the second player or be able to double arc a ship. Defiance gives to the extra dice of any color for a ship that has already activated. Paragon is difficult to get activated since it has to be double arced, but Defiance is some sweet awesomeness. Don't forget with Defiance you can get a second black dice with a Concentrate Fire command because of the way the dice is added to your attack pool.
Whoops, you are correct. I never actually got to use Paragon because, although I had Gunnery Team, I couldn't fire at the same ship from the same hull twice.
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http://x-wing.fabpsb.net/gindex.php#etiquette
This looks fun. You plug in what you own, and it will generate random forces for you. Sometimes stupid, but otherwise it looks like a good way to be exposed to lists and combinations you might not have tried otherwise.
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http://x-wing.fabpsb.net/gindex.php#etiquette
This looks fun. You plug in what you own, and it will generate random forces for you. Sometimes stupid, but otherwise it looks like a good way to be exposed to lists and combinations you might not have tried otherwise.
That's a great link. I wish there was one for Armada and other games that are a lot alike. If the game is much more customizable it would be more fun to me.
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There is one for Armada:
http://armada.fabpsb.net/gindex.php (http://armada.fabpsb.net/gindex.php)
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Sweet! I was wishing the same thing!
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I like this one for x-wing http://xwing-builder.co.uk/build
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I've been eyeing the Hound's Tooth for a while and Amazon has been offering it at a steep discount, and tonight I heard that the reprint of Most Wanted should be hitting stores this week or early next so I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the Tooth and a Kihraxz.
I figure Hound's Tooth, a Kihraxz, a Y-wing and two headhunters should be a respectable start to a S&V force, especially since I have a Slave 1, HWK and some more Y-wings I can contribute to the cause.
-Jackmc
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There is one for Armada:
http://armada.fabpsb.net/gindex.php (http://armada.fabpsb.net/gindex.php)
That's great. Thank you for that.
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So...should I give you a few more games before hinting to her that Nebbie-Bs are the snipers of the rebel fleet, and that Assault FFs are their line bruisers? :)
Well, that did not take long. Three games in and she just handed me my head.
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...don't look at me. My telepathinator is on the fritz.
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To me the sad thing with the Epic scale ships is that I've measured them and with a different style of attachment strut (essentially a right triangle style), you could have them be true scale on their existing bases. I'd have been willing to pay a bit more for true scale versions.
-Jackmc
I would pay for true-scale ships of that size, too. That was my point about the posts above. I have every intention of getting the Tantive IV… eventually. It's a $60 ship, though, and that I haven't been able to just throw that down on a whim.
Besides, if I do mod a Kenner ship, I'll still need the bases for it to be legit for the game.
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My CR 90 Tantative IV and Imperial Carrier have arrived at my FLGS but I can't pick them up till next week when I get paid. The republic cruiser in the photo looks great where did you get that? It looks like it would be to scale?
Not mine. I don't know where that person got it from. Just saw this pic in a search. I don't know that it's true-scale, though. Would have to look up the stats to be sure. From what I recall of the cartoon series, it looked a touch bigger.
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Okay. So, according to the Star Wars Wikia, the Venator class Star Destroyer of Clone Wars fame is 1155 m long. Not quite 10x large than the CR-90. More like 8x, give or take. So, it too, should be the size of a table at 1/270 scale.
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I don't know that it's true-scale, though. Would have to look up the stats to be sure. From what I recall of the cartoon series, it looked a touch bigger.
To give an idea: At 1/270 scale, the GR-75 comes within a small fraction of an inch of being the same as the FFG version of the Tantive IV. The IV should be about 42% bigger than it is if you go off the shorter of the two published dimensions for it or Roughly 2/3rds bigger if you use the larger dimensions.
-Jackmc
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Tantive IV/CR-90: at 150 m long, should be roughly 55.5 cm That's only a little over 2 feet.
Which isn't too bad for table-top. Even in the advanced rules, they suggest that people should play around with table size since the core rule play area is only designed for 2v2 fighter ships.
What's the larger version supposed to be?
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150 meters is the larger version, most people don't realize it but the length of the Tantive IV was retconned by Lucas to 126.6 meters in Episode III and that length is now the canonical length. In 1/270 scale that's just a hair under 18.5 inches long.
-Jackmc
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That's still bigger than the 33.3mm that the current model is. Still, that fits a lot better with the 18" collectors edition Star Wars toy version.
I can see the 127m length. I've seen a breakdown in some art book that showed it looked awful small for something that rivals the USS Grissom Federation vessel for length.
However, I have also heard that the CR-90 is customizable and that other ships might be slightly bigger or smaller based on loadout.
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Okay. To keep this thread going a bit, what army builds have you made so far?
And, a challenge: Make an all fighter of a single class flight, and explain why you made the choices you did.
For example:
- 2, 3 or 4 X-Wings
- a gaggle of Tie/Ln or Tie/In
etc, so on and so forth.
I'll put something together, but I know the simplest I can think of right off hand is 4 Red Squadron (X-Wing) Pilots, with maybe enough room for one ordinance upgrade. I believe - though I'll have to check - that they are 24 points a ship. That'll leave 4 points for some form of ordinance and/or droid upgrades.
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I routinely run squadrons composed entirely of X-Wings, most typically Wedge, Wes, and Luke.
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Something that surprised the hell out of a lot of lists was a hybrid swarm/big ship list I kinda threw together last Saturday for a tournament:
VT-43 Decimator, Patrol Leader (Tactical Jammer)
Howlrunner (Hull Upgrade, Swarm Tactics)
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot
Their focus was invariably on Howlrunner, which let the Decimator do some serious damage. I may adapt this list some to try and squeeze Isard in there, possibly dropping one of the Academy Pilots and using two of the TIE/fos instead. Howlrunner just seems to trigger something primal that says, "KILL ME, KILL ME NOW" even if you're not using a swarm. The Tactical Jammer was pretty useless, though.
Frankly, I lost one game due to losing the Decimator over the table edge by a mere sliver (it was undamaged and Fat Han only had 5 Hull left, and the game came down to 1 Academy Pilot versus Han, both with 1 Hull, and Han shot first), and the second may have been due to ignorance of rules: If two ships have the same Pilot Skill, they deal their damage simultaneously, with the initiative winner just being the first to roll. It would have saved 3 Hull damage off my Decimator, which may have been enough lifespan to let me get the last hull off of the Whisper rolling around.
It still could have gone either way; the TIE Phantom was rolling a lot of dice, but it would have been at least two more turns of me being able to shoot back, which could have made all the difference. *sigh* Oh, and it would have helped if early game I hadn't somehow made the mistake of hitting Howlrunner into the Decimator's back two turns in a row.
But I'm fairly new.
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Tie Advanced - Darth Vader push the limit concussion missiles munitions failsafe tie/x1 and advanced targeting computer. Maarek Stele cool hand concussion missiles munitions failsafe tiex1 advanced targeting computer and zertik strom calculation concussion missiles munitions failsafe tie/x1 ATC.
Tie Interceptors - Soontir Fel push the limit autothrusters royal guard tie targeting computer. Turr Phennir Veteran instincts autothrusters royal guard tie targeting computer. Tetran Cowall Marksmanship autothrusters royal guard tie targeting computer.
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I cant even put together an exclusive fighter list until I pick up Imerial Aces.
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Imperial Aces is worth the money and should help with Tie Interceptors. I still need to pick up one more Tie Advance though to complete that one list
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Howlrunner (Hull Upgrade, Swarm Tactics)
Did they reprint some of the tie pilots? Because last I knew, HowlRunner only got one skill upgrade. Nothing in the upgrade bar for weapons, armor, or anything else.
Standard Ties are actually the easiest since many of the non-unique, and most of the unique don't get any upgrades.
So, if you wanted to, you could do two 'finger-4' arrangements with 4 academy grads (12) and 4 obsidian squadron pilots (13)
Or, you cold go with a Black Squadron pilot with a single pointer upgrade (14 +1), An Obsidian Squadron Pilot (13), and 6 Academy Graduates (12)
Turns out, I was off on my Red Squadron Pilots. They're 23 points apiece. So, that'll leave 8 points of upgrades. Easy enough to fit them all with R2 or R5 units, and maybe on with proton torps.
I was toying around with the notion of Garven Dries and 3 Red Squadron Pilots, but with only 5 points of upgrade space, it's hard to outfit all of them with anything except maybe non-unique R2 and R5 units.
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Did they reprint some of the tie pilots? Because last I knew, HowlRunner only got one skill upgrade. Nothing in the upgrade bar for weapons, armor, or anything else.
Hulll Upgrade is a Modification.
Any ship can take a Modification or Title provide they meet the card's requirements. Since any ship can take them, they do not have an icon on the upgrade bar.
-Jackmc
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Here's one I ran in a tournament where I took first:
http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/61744/trenchrun-trio---orig#manoeuvres=hide
Trenchrun Trio - Orig
Wedge Antilles
R2 Astromech (1)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Luke Skywalker
R2-D2 (4)
Proton Torpedoes (4)
Deadeye (1)
Biggs Darklighter
R5-D8 (3)
Shield Upgrade (4)
And a variation of that one: http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/59112/trenchrun-trio#manoeuvres=hide
Trenchrun Trio
Wedge Antilles
R5-K6 (2)
Luke Skywalker
R5-D8 (3)
Proton Torpedoes (4)
Determination (1)
Biggs Darklighter
R2-D2 (4)
Shield Upgrade (4)
Here's a 3 B-Wing list with HCs
http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/405365/hc-bees#manoeuvres=hide
Ibtisam
Heavy Laser Cannon (7)
Marksmanship (3)
Dagger Squadron Pilot #1
B-Wing
Heavy Laser Cannon (7)
Dagger Squadron Pilot #2
B-Wing
Heavy Laser Cannon (7)
Most of my lists are in my android list builder on my tablet
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Can't say I've looked much at single-chassis squads, mostly because aside from Interceptors, I don't own enough of anything to field such a force.
Did anyone have any advice on this front? (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=43871.msg1173663#msg1173663)
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What is the best setup to use the Nebulon as a sniping platform?
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Can't say I've looked much at single-chassis squads, mostly because aside from Interceptors, I don't own enough of anything to field such a force.
Did anyone have any advice on this front? (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=43871.msg1173663#msg1173663)
Decimator and Punisher is possible if you go for a two-ship list. Chirenau is hands down the best Decimator 'pilot', and he fits exceptionally well into a list like that. I'd recommend Isard, Gunner, and Rebel Captive for crew options, with your choice of Predator or Veteran Instincts so you can deal good damage on your attacks with his ability plus re-rolls, as well as punish the first ace to shoot at you and keep some manner of defensive help. Engine Upgrade can help you get out of arc when you need it most. If you want to be really cheeky, take Push the Limit instead of either of the above options, and use it when Isard's token happens in the combat phase in order to boost after everyone else has moved.
The Punisher is less obvious. You mentioned wanting to do bomb things, so that practically locks in Deathrain. Enhanced Scopes lets you move first and prevents any and all ships from avoiding your bombs when you want to drop them. In order to take advantage of clustered ships, you want both an action bomb and a maneuver bomb, so I'd personally take Seismic Charge and Connor Net. Extra Munitions is required, obviously.
With Predator or Push the Limit, that's 100 points. With Veteran Instincts, it's 98 with a good initiative bid.
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The idea was for a squad with all three, and all three mounting at least some bombs. I'll give your list a try sometime, though.
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Oh. All three is going to be much harder, because Bombers are generally subpar and trying to fit all three means you'll have to make some serious concessions on loadouts.
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Very true, but I think we both know where my priorities lie in the choice between effectiveness and comedy. :)
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What is the best setup to use the Nebulon as a sniping platform?
I would use this setup.
Nebulon-B Support
Slaved Turrets
Salvation
Total 64 points
This gives you a good ability to punch at range. The Support is 51 points with 3 red dice in the front arc. The reason I went with the Support Frigate is because of Slaved Turrets. This allows you to add another red dice, but you can only attack once. I don't feel that the two anti-squard dice were worth it with only one attack a turn. The salvation title makes crits count as 2 damage instead of 1. With this set up you have 4 red dice and can get 5 red dice with a Concentrate Fire command dial.
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Now I have an Assault Frigate, Ho.Ho.Ho.
New kit just arrived, shelf is starting to get crowded. Does anyone else have issues with squadron based and pins not fitting well? Drives me nuts when assembling them.
I would have asked this over on the Armada forums, but when I registered it seems to have messed up my registration and the admins don't seem to answer calls for help activating the account.
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Yes, the upper plastic pegs dont quite fit exactly into the lower pegs in the Rebel fighter expansion I got. Makes a few of the fighter groups look like theyre in a half-assed action pose.
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Here's a trick that works for most loose pegs. Dip a pin into a bottle of supper glue. There should be so little glue on the pin you're not even sure you got any. Rub the pin on the inside walls of the peg hole. Make sure you let it completely dry before using it again.
This will make the pegs fit way more snug so you shouldn't do it for pegs that are just a tad loose.
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They're not loose, the receiving hole in the lower stand is off angle. It looks like they were not drilled out correctly.
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Now I have an Assault Frigate, Ho.Ho.Ho.
New kit just arrived, shelf is starting to get crowded. Does anyone else have issues with squadron based and pins not fitting well? Drives me nuts when assembling them.
I would have asked this over on the Armada forums, but when I registered it seems to have messed up my registration and the admins don't seem to answer calls for help activating the account.
I had the same issue at the x-wing forums and they answered my plea for help in 24 hours?
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Been ten days, I'll try again.
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question for you guys.
recently i ran a force that included Kyle Katarn's HWK-290, with a blaster turret, Recon specialist, and the moldy Crow title. during most of the game he had 2-4 focus tokens on him, thanks to the recon specialist and the title card.
my opponent and I, both rather new to the game, couldn't figure out how many focus tokens the ship could make use of each turn. (especially as the blaster turret used one token each turn it was fired) part of the reason he had so many tokens all the time was that i didn't want to push things rules wise and limited my use of the tokens to a max of one for changing dice results and one for the blaster turret each turn. something my opponent agreed to accept, though we both are now curious as to how the combo was meant to be used.
can you use more than one focus token during the combat phase? and are there limits to how many times it can be used for specific things?
note that i'm referrign to the tokens (the markers you put on the ship and remove for the various effects), and not the action (the action is what assigns the token(s) to the ship, IIRC, and i know you can only do that once a turn)
that HWK-290 combo worked fairly well even with the self imposed limits we set, but if it can use it's stockpile of focus tokens without limit i think it would have ended up a lot better. before i use it again i'd like to find out exactly what i can pull off with it.
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I think the only limitation is that you can only spend one focus token during a single given attack. So on your attack, you could spend one focus during that, and one each time someone attacked you. Could probably also spend one each time you activated some special ability or other that lets you burn focus tokens for some other benefit.
Basically, plenty of tokens per turn, but only one at a time. Can't burn multiple tokens in a single sttack or anything.
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A focus token can only be used once per roll, so multiple focus tokens could be used for multiple defense rolls, or multiple offense rolls if you had something like the BTL-A4 Y-Wing Title (which allows two shots a turn), or even on a Luke Skywalker or Gunner second roll if you spent the focus token on the first roll and still missed due to evade results.
There's plenty of stuff around stacking up lots of Focus and spreading it around for defensive reasons; giving 2-3 Focus to a TIE Phantom and having it Evade makes it nearly invincible.
EDIT: Kyle Katarn is basically a focus battery, building up tokens during the first two or three turns, then passing them out as extras to his teammates. Because he can only hand out one a turn, he should still have plenty, and can probably even Evade late game to make him more durable - which he may need, as the HWK is not exactly the most durable craft to have as the key to a strategy.
Though it could be kind of neat to use the Twin Laser Turrets, Shield Upgrade, Recon Specialist, Moldy Crow, and I'm not sure what as an Elite upgrade - or maybe just skip it as you're already spending a lot of points on a not-tough ship? Elusiveness, possibly, the stress is NBD since you're probably sticking to Green maneuvers - and it's spent during Defense, so he can't modify the roll further. Get rid of that crit!
You'd also want to give Calculation (use a Focus to change an eyeball to a crit) on the other pilots as well to really make them a threat.
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the list i was using..
Kyle Katarn (HWK-290)
_Blaster Turret
_Recon Specialist
_Moldy Crow
Tycho Celchu (A-wing)
_Homing Missiles
_Push the Limit
Etahn A'baht (E-wing)
_Fletchette Torpedoes
_Deadeye
between the focus token issue, and my not knowing at the time that A'baht's ability was an area effect boost for friendly units, the game didn't go too well.
My opponent (my youngest brother, who has a much bigger collection) was running a TIE swarm, with a Defender and 4 TIE Fighters.. the TIE's all had named pilots (howlrunner, backstabber, wampa, and Mauler Mithil, IIRC.) and the Defender was running an Ion Cannon (a weapon which caused me a lot of trouble)
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Yeah, glitterboy, you might wanna pick up Rebel Aces or the good ol' Millennium Falcon. The Falc is the core of several strong lists, and Rebel Aces has more ships AND the invaluable Chardaan Refit, which makes an A-Wing 2 points cheaper at the cost of a Missile Upgrade, and that way you'd have another A-wing and a B-Wing.
A very solid list is just Han Solo, some upgrades, and a couple cheap A-Wings with Chardaan refits.
Ordnance in general is kind of a waste of points, at least until the Extra Munitions Upgrade was printed - it puts a reload for all of your ordnance into a Torpedo slot. Pretty handy for those ships that can carry a variety of ordnance.
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Yeah, use all that focus all you want. Technically, there's no rule that says you can't spend 5 of them on one attack roll. It's just that after you spend the first one, all your focus rolls become hits so there's nothing to actually spend them on anymore.
Btw, here's my solution to all those damn tokens.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/DrkSpde/Star%20Wars/WP_20141213_002_zps35c3e7ca.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/DrkSpde/Star%20Wars/WP_20141213_004_zps36b51cd5.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/DrkSpde/Star%20Wars/WP_20141213_003_zps09f4b524.jpg)
Here you can see I figured out a better solution for the Moldy crow at the bottom right.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/DrkSpde/Star%20Wars/WP_20141217_002_zps935ddf64.jpg)
It's not pretty, but it solves the "who's target lock was this?" problem.
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Genius!!
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Target Locks will fit into the fighter's base where the numbers are normally supposed to go and solve the same problem. But that's a pretty interesting way to do it!
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I've since made some crit and cloaked clips too.
Aside from "I'd never let you get near my ships with those!", I've only gotten one complaint. They're ugly. I can't deny that, but I was going more for effective and cheap(especially cheap) than pretty. If you like the idea and are willing to pay for something prettier, get some of the smaller clear plastic cloths pins(office supply department usually), and some acrylic tokens. Then, glue the tokens to the front of the clips(the part you don't squeeze to open). If X-wing starts hitting my table more often, I may go that route.
Target Locks will fit into the fighter's base where the numbers are normally supposed to go and solve the same problem. But that's a pretty interesting way to do it!
I've tried that, but some ship models dip down enough to get in the way and you pretty much have to use 2 pegs on all your ships. Even if they don't, multiple target locks becomes a problem. Those slots are also needed to keep track of which ship is which if you're playing a swarm.
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Except the target locks will also double as identification. :D If you have eight Bandits, use Target Locks A, C, E, G, I, K, M, and O. Arrange them on your side of the table in order of their target locks, so you can't get them confused even if you're using the target lock at that exact moment. You can't get the target locks confused with your opponent's, because you'll only ever be using red locks on the field, and it makes no sense to have a red lock (that's yours) on a ship you control.
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I'm falling for the tie phantom. That's a mean imperial fighter
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The TIE Phantom should have had only 3 attack.
In other news, I beat the guy who lends me the Wes Jansen card/board that I use so badly in the store championship yesterday that he asked for them back (after over a month). I've decided to come up with lists that use only cards that I actually, physically own. Take one:
"Aces Wild"
Wedge Antilles (29) [32]
Predator (3)
"Red Ace" (29) [36]
R2-D2 (4)
Comm Relay (3)
"Blue Ace" (27) [32]
R7-T1 (3)
Autothrusters (2)
Total: 100
Aaaand take two:
"Blues Brothers"
"Blue Ace" (27) [28]
R5-X3 (1)
Integrated Astromech (0)
Blue Squadron Novice (24)
Blue Squadron Novice (24)
Blue Squadron Novice (24)
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So I've been doing the math, and it would be cheaper for me to restart as Rebels than to continue doing the Imperials. Right now I have a Decimator, 3 TIEs, and 2 TIE/fos.
In order to add TIE/Ads, I'd have to buy the basic TIE/Ad set, then the Imperial Raider for the title that fixes them. At that point I'd get Emperor Palpatine too, but sheesh, it's still $70+ for a fighter I can use and a ship I'd never get to use (no one around here WANTS to do epic, it's all "tournament tournament tournament!")
In order to add a TIE/Phantom, I'd need at least the Slave One for Veteran Instincts.
In order to add TIE/Ins, I'd need the TIE Interceptor blister (for Soontir), Imperial Aces (for the TIE/In title), and the Starviper blister (for autothrusters) which is both out of print and an S&V ship I can't use. Oh, and probably Slave One just for the Stealth Device.
To really ramp up my Decimator, I need to buy a Millennium Falcon (for Engine Upgrade) and the Lambda (for Rebel Captive and/or Vader), another ship that sucks.
For going nasty TIE swarm, I need the new Imperial Carrier for Youngster, which does give me two more TIEs and good stuff but is expensive - and I hate TIE swarm too.
Compare that to Rebels. If I buy a Millennium Falcon I get everything except the C-3P0 Crew I need for a fatty build. If I buy Rebel Aces and an A-Wing I get all I need for three solid ships. If I buy a Y-Wing and a Most Wanted pack I get two BTL-A4 Y-Wings, turrets to use with them, and all I need to add three more ships to my Rebel forces is pick up a Z-95 Headhunter pack. The K-Wing's a good ship by itself and adds Twin Laser Turret to my arsenal.
The difference is that with Imperials, the cards I need and the ships I need are pretty far separated - and in some cases, the cards I need are packaged with ships I'll never use. With Rebels, the ships and the cards I need are packaged together, sometimes with ships that are a little distant, but never totally unusable.
If I had no budget, I'd be glad to pick up some of the beautiful minis just to have and look good. But I'm not made of money, and there are a fair few other things I need to put cash towards.
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Pick up two TIE Fighters and run a Patrol Leader and 5 Academy Pilots. Or two TIE/fo Fighters and run a Patrol Leader and 4 Epsilon Squadron Pilots. Or buy one A-wing and another TIE/fo and fly a Patrol Leader with Isard, Omega Leader with Comm Relay and Juke, and two Omega Squadron Pilots. Or buy nothing at all, and run a Patrol Leader with Mauler Mithel, an Obsidian Squadron Pilot, and two Epsilon Squadron Pilots.
They're not lists that are especially dominant in the tournament scene, but this is coming from a guy who routinely flies T-65s in tournament games. The key to winning games isn't playing the strongest list, it's learning how to use the list you like to fly.
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You'll get no argument from me; I've beat brobots with nothing but the list I posted before, but it's just frustrating for me that the ships I WANT to run are best with such wild requirements - or that I can't try out combos that I see and am interested in without either borrowing a ton of cards or buying ships I care not for.
Plus, I'm trying to buy the minimum I have to and still have a competitive force. I'm honestly not all that in love with the game, but a lot of people up here play so I want something that's good, fun to play, and can still kick heads in.
I was actually thinking I could have a lot of fun with Oicunn and his ramming speed (and several of the local players badmouthed him), so I went looking for cards that make him awesome - and the Daredevil card comes in the TIE/In pack, the Engine Upgrade in the Falcon pack, and then there's that Rebel Captive that punishes Aces which is only in the Lambda. I figured that plus Epsilon Leader would be pretty cool, but adding another ship for more stress removal would require a Wingman card - once again, only in the Z-95 Headhunter pack.
Versus the list I could put together out of just Rebel Aces, A-Wing, and K-Wing? (and a core set X-wing as that's mandatory). Or A Y-Wing, Most Wanted for another Y-Wing and the Z-95 for a YYZZX list?
It's just cheaper to go Rebels and get the cards AND ships you need for good lists instead of needing to buy the ships and cards separately.
It's like, yeah, I can play Magic with just some common cards and win some games (particularly against scrubs), but why do that when I could play the best cards and win most of the games? Other than the fact that I can't afford the best cards, that is - but that's a whole other debate.
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hey Iamfanboy one thing I thought I noticed and I apologize if I misunderstood, but it also sounded like you might get a lot of the stuff you would like for your imps by picking up the rebellion things you were saying you needed for a rebel force?
if that's the case what I would consider, is pick up the rebel stuff for immediate play capability and then reevaluate what you would need for the imp "upgrades" you wanted. you might be able to essentially get 2 forces you can play effectively that way eventually.
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Or A Y-Wing, Most Wanted for another Y-Wing and the Z-95 for a YYZZX list?
actually since the Most wanted pack only provides the Scum faction cards, you wouldn't be able to do that list. but you could make a Scum faction force mixing Y-wings, Z-95's, HWK-290's, YT-1300's, and Firesprays using it.
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Aren't there sites that sell individual ships and cards out of their packages? I know I did the same for magic the gathering cards when I wanted to get one or two specific cards (daru for flavor!).
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They're pretty easy to find on eBay at least, and I know the FFG forums have trading threads.
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Aren't there sites that sell individual ships and cards out of their packages? I know I did the same for magic the gathering cards when I wanted to get one or two specific cards (daru for flavor!).
On eBay, the TIE/x1 and Advanced Targeting Computer is being sold together for $15. The Imperial Raider retails for $100, and includes four sets of those cards. So it's pretty clear that the 'price' is pretty heavily marked up, because saying that 4 slips of half-cards are 3/5ths the worth of the box? At that price it's almost worth it to buy the damn raider for four sets of cards (selling off an extra one or two), getting another TIE/Ad, AND Emperor Palpatine.
Or I can spend that $100 on an entire, nearly complete Rebel force with lots of redundancy and all the cards I need. Well, let's call it $65-70ish because as much as I want to support my local game store $35 is a LOT of money for me right now. But that's still enough for Rebel Aces, an A-Wing, and a K-Wing or E-Wing at the game store.
They also usually don't include enough extras to pass around, and people are SUPER reluctant to trade away the ones they DO have extras of - The Falc comes with 2 Engine Upgrades, but it's so good that giving one up, when they might us a list with two ships, is difficult. Autothrusters is another one that supposedly comes in a pair, but the only thing better than one ship with extra Agility is two ships with extra Agility!
I'm not actually Fanboy-angry about this situation. It's a great business model, and if I had cash I'd love to expand my collection to include all three factions and get the cards I want that way. The minis are beautiful and well worth collecting.
But I'm doing what I'm doing with limited resources, and from that view the Alliance is just way more efficient.
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They're pretty easy to find on eBay at least, and I know the FFG forums have trading threads.
When I looked last night there were not a lot of individual ships. Most were selling multi packs or the mini card holders for the upgrades which I think I will invest in
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I did a search for "X-wing upgrade card", and saw lots of folks selling individuals, either ships with no upgrade cards, or single upgrade cards.
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I did a search for "X-wing upgrade card", and saw lots of folks selling individuals, either ships with no upgrade cards, or single upgrade cards.
The main problem is that there are certain cards which are A+ and also only come in certain boxes (many of which contain subpar ships so are useless for force building, or in only one faction's ship), or are so needed that even if a player has four or five it still might not be enough. These are the cards that get resold at huge markups.
In no particular order, they'd be Push the Limit, Predator, Autothrusters, Advanced Sensors, Crack Shot, Twin Laser Turret, Gunner, Veteran Instincts, Engine Upgrade, Juke. Some other faction cards like C-3P0 and Emperor Palpatine are so good that owning them can make or break a list, and they tend to come in the super-expensive ships - or sold separately for $25+.
If you want to you could get Proton Torpedos or Ion Cannon Turret or less used (but still occasionally useful) stuff for really cheap, but the stuff which is almost always good is so expensive to buy separately you may as well buy the bloody ship it comes in.
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C-3P0 is the participation prize for Store Championships right now, so get yourself to one with whatever shitty list you want and get one for the entry fee. Save $80 on a Corvette.
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Looking at a $4.95 Crack Shot right now. If that's more than you'd like, then it is what it is.
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I did a search for "X-wing upgrade card", and saw lots of folks selling individuals, either ships with no upgrade cards, or single upgrade cards.
I am actually trying to find unopened ships at a reasonable rate if possible not wanting to buy the upgrade cards. I understand you can actually download them and print them out but they are not legal for tournies even though I am not planning on playing in a tournament anytime in the near future either.
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If you are looking for a reasonable rate, better grab what you can now. Beginning in April, Asmodee/FFG is going to engage in market manipulation to even up the price between online and physical stores.
-Jackmc
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If need be then I will just use miniature market as much as that pains me. But I have some cards I know people want but they won't get them either. I just need to get my hands on a few more of the ships and will have everything that is out prior to what is supposed to be on the boat
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I need a Tie/Phantom, Z-95, E-wing, M3-A, Star Viper, Aggressor and Most Wanted.
For a long time I was buying for what I wanted to play rather than a complete collection.
-Jackmc
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I found through a company called fairyglen.com and picked up a 2x Tie Phantoms, 1 M3 2x Star Vipers and 1 Tie Advanced. for the price I am getting free shipping even though its economy but they said that due to the late shipping they upgraded it so I can have it by Saturday not sure how true that is but I do have the tracking number. Every place I have looked the Star Viper has been sold out and they had it in stock for retail price.
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Yeah it sold out, but the new stock should be hitting stores within the next week as they shipped it to the distributors around a week ago.
I'll probably be picking up the Viper, M3 and Most wanted next week.
-Jackmc
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Uncle's in Spokane Valley has the most wanted but don't have the funds right now. Otherwise I would pick up that and the Imperial Shuttle
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Yeah. The Imperial shuttle is great for capture or rescue or escort scenarios. If you plan on adding some variety to your games, it's worth having.
In fact, I look at a lot of medium and big ships more in that light than I do anything else. Being that's the kind of gamer I am, I'm keen on owning them, eventually.
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My order arrived today. 2x Star Vipers, 2x Tie Phantom's, 1 Tie Advance and 1 M3A Interceptor might try a scum group with the 2 Star Vipers and the M3
@Daemion I own all the large ships that are out so far and I really want to start playing with them in a game.
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any advice on builds and use for the GR-75, for a player new to using the big ships? My brother has a GR-75 and a Gozanti, and i suggested that sometime in the next week or so we should do a game that uses them so i can learn a bit about the big ship rules.
he suggested we might do some of the scenario's for the big ships, but having skimmed the X-wing wiki, it looks like i'll be building a force rather than using a preset one, so i figure i should find some advice on good builds for the transport. (since my brother prefers imperials, but has sizeable forces for both)
i expect i'll be facing a Gozanti with a TIE fighter swarm (since the docking ability requires all the same type of fighter, and he doesn't have enough interceptors to fill it out.)
i know that the rebel transport is more of a support ship so i figure i'll need to bring some good fighters along to do the actual fighting. but i'm not sure what the transport is good at doing, or what of the available crew, mods, and cargo options might be good.
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The only thing I remember hearing about and regarding the epic ships is that its 200 points instead of 100?
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i'm not sure what scenarios he had in mind, but some of them are more like 125-150pts. the rebel and imperial transports are fairly cheap before you start loading up on the options, so i suspect you don't need big points values if limited just to them as the big ships.
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An epic game is 300 points, and generally either has one huge ship and only a few escorts, or a smaller huge ship and a bunch of escorts - which is actually a better game plan overall.
the Gozanti is much stronger than the GR-75 - its ability to take a hardpoint, letting it actually DEAL damage, pretty much guarantees that. Probably the best think you can do with the GR-75 is a jammer-man with Slicer Tools, Frequency Jammer, and Dutyfree - that way you can put Stress on 2 ships out to range 3 and then turn any remaining stress into automatic damage the next turn. Pick up Tibanna Gas Supplies, and Combat Retrofit with WED-15 for added durability if you think you'll need it - but really you're just laying down stress on enemy models and punishing the ones that keep stressed. Poor Soontir is gonna HATE you.
Other ideas are here: http://www.xwingminiaturesgame.com/squad-list-rebels/rebel-ution-epic-play-ii-upgrading-the-gr-75/ (http://www.xwingminiaturesgame.com/squad-list-rebels/rebel-ution-epic-play-ii-upgrading-the-gr-75/)
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A Gozanti with Ordinance Tubes (IE Missiles or Torps cards have unlimited ammo rather than being one-shot) is nasty. A Gozant w/ Ord tubes and carrying Tie Bombers is just rude.
-Jackmc
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A Gozanti with Ordinance Tubes (IE Missiles or Torps cards have unlimited ammo rather than being one-shot) is nasty. A Gozant w/ Ord tubes and carrying Tie Bombers is just rude.
-Jackmc
Nooo that is just the imperial way
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Huh, just found out that there are no Super Star Destroyers left. Guess we won't see a mini for that in the Force Awakens set of warships.
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Huh, just found out that there are no Super Star Destroyers left. Guess we won't see a mini for that in the Force Awakens set of warships.
I don't think they will make that mini. Except for Star Wars Armada.
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I don't think they will make that mini. Except for Star Wars Armada.
True, and even then its scale will be heavily downsized. But even if its a 200 bucks I would buy one just to have it.
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Meh, SSD's seriously lose something once you realize that ships that big were a relatively common thing since rather than being the end-all-be-all that the movies portray them as, they are just the SW equivalent of Battleships and thus just one class in multitude of ships that size in the SW universe.
-Jackmc
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Meh, SSD's seriously lose something once you realize that ships that big were a relatively common thing since rather than being the end-all-be-all that the movies portray them as, they are just the SW equivalent of Battleships and thus just one class in multitude of ships that size in the SW universe.
-Jackmc
I'm pretty certain there were very few warships 19km long floating about. Normal Star Destroyers were considered the standard fleet unit in the original movies after all. Then again Han Solo did note that there were lots of Command Ships around as well. But I doubt anyones navy's had anything as big and powerful as a Executor. Even the Republic or the Confederacy during the Clone Wars didn't field anything close to that size.
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The CIS had some fairly massive ships though. the Lucrehulk class battleship/carriers were 3km across, and the Subjugator class seen in the clonewars show was nearly 5km long. the Republic didn't have anything nearly that big in the canon.. their biggest ships were the Ventator SD's, which were about a Kilometer long.
in the old EU there were a lot of "star dreadnoughts" around, with even the Republic having had a few. and the empire was building them by the dozens, in something like 9 different classes. mostly due to various comics and videogames stuff just putting in "bigger different looking star destroyers" willy nilly, but part of it was due to some confusion over the size of the Executor (which was originally believed to be 8km long, not 19km.. enough of the games, novels, comics, etc came out with the 8km size that when the real size was corrected, a whole new 8km class had to be created to explain all the overly small executor like SSD's in the various sources)
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The new Star Destoryers form Episode 7 are supposed to be 3km long. So larger then the standard ISD.
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The new Star Destoryers form Episode 7 are supposed to be 3km long. So larger then the standard ISD.
The fun part is the backstory for them is they were built in secret because there construction broke a whole lot of treaty's. Probably means there are not a lot of them unlike the old Imperial Fleet which had massive numbers of Imperial Star Destroyers at there beck and call.
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Does it say if those treaties were broken because the Resurgents are bigger than allowed, brought fleet numbers up to higher than allowed, and/or no new SDs of any class were allowed?
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given the setting info we have and how the empire/republic conflict ended, i wonder if there wasn't an equivalent to the Washington Naval Treaty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Naval_Treaty) put into place, to prevent stockpiling of the biggest ship classes?
if you recall your history, that treaty put Displacement limits on the naval forces of the world post-WW1 (in an effort to moderate the kind of massive naval buildup rivalry's seen before WW1).. the biggest ships (Battleships, Battlecruisers, and Carriers) were limited both in size, and in how much total tonnage each nation could maintain, while the smaller ships Destroyers, Frigates, etc) were limited to below a certain tonnage, but navy's could build as many as they wanted.
in star wars, such a treaty could well have limited the size and number of the Star Destroyer levels ships the Republic and Empire could maintain (including the Mon Calamari cruisers like Home One), to prevent the kind of massively powerful fleets the Empire used to subjugate worlds.
presumably smaller ships (like the Corvettes, the Nebulon's, the Gozanti's and Aquitans, etc) would not be as limited, since individually those are much less capable, and gathering together enough of them to conduct a major campaign would be easier to detect. smaller ships would also be more vulnerable to fighters, and easier for worlds to build/obtain.. meaning that each planet could more easily defend itself using its own resources.
this would have put the naval development more towards Fighters, armed shuttles, and the like. which would help explain why even the First Order's fighters are so much more capable than the Empire's (designed to deal with the Fighter/smallship heavy navy's), and why the Resistance isn't shown to have much in the way of capital ship support.
this would also explain some things about the Republic, and how they could lose their main fleet so easily and how they could defend/police themselves effectively using the distributed forces set up. the fleet they lost would mainly be their star destroyer type ships, the powerful Core of their navy. and the distributed forces of each world would in turn be heavier on Fighters and small ships like Corvettes and Frigates.. ideal for police work and system security, and defending against other similar fleets, but not really a good offensive mix.
the First Order's new SD would basically be like the Yamato.. the kind of super-battleship you could only get by combining the best of the treaty induced tech advances with a ship that ignored the treaty's limits all together.
all speculation of course, but it would make an interesting visual for the future movies.. bring back the image of the badguys having fleets of these massive warships, and the good guys having to make do with a motley array of small ships, a handful of big ships, and a lot of superior spacefighters.
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I think it came down to the First Order wasn't supposed to have any warships at all. There is still a Imperial Remnant running around and the First Order is a break off of that.
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My question is...does the Remnant have any Resurgents? [drool]
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So after a careful analysis of the options available as an Empire commander and trying to figure out the most cost-efficient ways to create an effective force, I strangely went with the most outwardly expensive option: the Imperial Raider.
Not only is it the biggest ship for Epic play (letting me field a force for minimal cash output there!), but it includes Emperor Palpatine to staff either a Lambda or Decimator. With 4 TIE/x1 title and Advanced Targeting Computers, it also does a nice job of making the TIE/Ad good without needing to buy a ton of blisters. Plus, from a cost perspective, I only need two TIE/x1 titles and I can sell the other two to help defray the $70 ship. After I get the second TIE/Ad I'll have spent $65 for my Epic ship, two great ships for standard play, and Palpatine.
I also did this up for a friend in exchange for his extra Engine Upgrade Card:
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i225/iamfanboy/x-wing-rebels-poe%20x-wing1_zps1vswlejl.jpg)
I can't believe he actually thought he HAD to specify that "BB-8 would be the astromech", like I wasn't going to do that. I ran out of Battlemechs to paint a while ago, so having a mechanical under the brush was a refreshing change of pace.
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The Resurgant Class Star Destroyers are said to rival the old Super Star Destroyers in firepower especially with those crystals (They're stated to be like the planet busting super laser of the Death Stars via the crystal enhancement).
The FO figured that they cannot get a big fleet like the old Imperial Navy, so they went "Go Big or Go Home" to maximimixe the usefulness of the hulls they could built.
So we could see that they have the capabilities to build BIG ships, but not the capabilities to built ships in sheer numbers like the Imperial Star Destroyer.
So one on one, the Resurgant massively outgun an old ISD/matching an old Super Star Destroyer (when it have the crystal enhancement). It also carry more crafts, that are stored well within the hull for greater protection as well a larger crew and a larger troop contigent than the old ISD.
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We do see the new weapon I think once in the movie. Only problem was it was used against a retreating Tie Fighter and only damaged it, not destroyed it. And it acted more like a missile than a turbolaser. I want to say its a dud of a weapon from what little evidence we have seen. The Turbolasers we saw in action over Coruscant in Episode III seemed to do a lot more damage.
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actually the Ship has a bunch of different weapons. the big guns are the enhanced ones, according ot the cross-section book. it also has a lot of smaller point defense guns (which Poe and Finn took out a few of to get a chance to escape), as well as Missile emplacements.
and IIRC it was a Missile that shot them down. (only got to see the film once so my memory is a tad hazy on the details of that segment right now)
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It was a missile that downed them yes.
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OK, from what I was told and remembered from the film the special weapon is what was used to shoot down the TIE Fighter. Though looking at Wookieepedia kit seems the special weapons are nothing more than a upgrade to the ships turbolasers rather than a dedicated weapon system.
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OK, from what I was told and remembered from the film the special weapon is what was used to shoot down the TIE Fighter. Though looking at Wookieepedia kit seems the special weapons are nothing more than a upgrade to the ships turbolasers rather than a dedicated weapon system.
Yeah, that's what I meant when they were using crystal enhancements. Not all of the Resurgent SDs in the First Order have them and they're clamoring after the enhancements because it was THAT large of a boost. And the "special" weapon to shoot down the Spec Ops TIE (it's the only variant that house 2 persons and has a *turret*) was nothing more than missiles. Whoever told you it was special was probably saying so because you don't see ship launched missiles at all (fighters being an exception) in the SW movies before TFA.
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The FO should of spent more money on Fighters instead of another super weapon.
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The FO should of spent more money on Fighters instead of another super weapon.
Well if you look, the Empire is paying more attention to there TIE Fighters than the Empire did. The Empires fighter wings were essentially throw away's as were there pilots. The First Order lacks the numbers to do this so I think there ships carry larger numbers of them and there not treated as a throw away resource.
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For those of you who don't frequent the minis sub-forum:
Repurposed Armada Y-Wings (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=51089.msg1178831#msg1178831).
So, yeah, I only have one for XWM. And, I'm thinking of keeping Gold Squadron for Armada and switching out the blanks I'll get with the base game to use as my repurposed Y-Wings in a different detail color scheme. Whaddayall think? Teal? Brown? Dark Gray?
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So the Jumpmaster and the Ghost are coming out by next month anybody pre-ordering these? I am not sure if I want to pre-order them through miniature market or pick them up at my FLGS
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So the Jumpmaster and the Ghost are coming out by next month anybody pre-ordering these? I am not sure if I want to pre-order them through miniature market or pick them up at my FLGS
I'm trying to support my FLGS as much as possible - I actually apologized to him for buying my Raider online, but a difference of $40 after taxes was just too big for me to endure. On smaller ships, it's like a difference of $3-6, but on that beast...
So I went 1-2 with a ramming speed list using the Decimator's Captain Oicunn and a combo that lets you ram twice in a row in exchange for two Stress; I brought along the Lambda Shuttle's Captain Yorr and "Epsilon Leader" to knock down that stress. Admittedly, some of it was due to bad piloting on my part - that damn Lambda dial is TERRIBLE - and I so should have gone with my original idea about borrowing Youngster and Wampa from a friend and running a tie swarm+ palpatine on Lambda list. Wampa and Palpatine together is DISGUSTING.
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Just picked up Star Wars Armada.
Now to learn how to play it.
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So the Jumpmaster and the Ghost are coming out by next month anybody pre-ordering these? I am not sure if I want to pre-order them through miniature market or pick them up at my FLGS
Yeah, I am. I'm ordering all of this wave plus a Star Viper so I'll have the complete collection. I want Ghost so I can build my Calarissian's Commercial Coop (all freighter) list, and I've fallen in love with S&V so getting the Mist Hunter and Punishing One are a given. Likewise, I'm really digging Rebels so I figured I might as well get the Inquisitor's ship just cause I'm such a fan boy. At that point, I only needed the T-70 and TIE/FO to have at least one of everything, so I figured, why not? :D ;D
Also, I hope in a not-to-distant Wave, they release a S&V model for the "Banshee" which is Ketsua's ship from the Rebel's episode "Blood Sisters." That model is also supposed to be favored by Asajj Ventress so they could conceivably include her a pilot.
-Jackmc
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Rules Question:
A ship normally is considered to have fled the battle/been destroyed if it ends its maneuver with any part of its base outside the play area. Does that take affect before or after the action part of the activation phase? ie. if I end up just barely going of the edge but can use Boost and get back fully within the play area, can I do so?
-Jackmc
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Rules Question:
A ship normally is considered to have fled the battle/been destroyed if it ends its maneuver with any part of its base outside the play area. Does that take affect before or after the action part of the activation phase? ie. if I end up just barely going of the edge but can use Boost and get back fully within the play area, can I do so?
-Jackmc
It takes place as soon as any part of the ship or movement template leaves the map. Lost a game to that yesterday - yes, I could have boosted as well, but the rules are unfortunately clear. <_<
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Just the ship, not the template.
From the FAQ dated 9/27:
Q: After a ship executes a maneuver, if its maneuver template
is outside the play area but the ship’s base is not outside
the play area, has that ship fled the battlefield?
A: No.
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Thought so, thanks.
-Jackmc
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Just picked up Star Wars Armada.
Now to learn how to play it.
Me, too. Intrigued to find that the core game comes with only two fighter classes for your squadrons, but lots of them: 4 X-wing squadrons (12 minis) and 6 Tie Squadrons (18 minis). I kinda wish they had these as stand-alone packs in just that load out.
Now, for some painting.
Edit: I'm kinda curious on what the squadron stands actually represent. Do they represent small flights, as in three actual fighters, or are they more representative of an actual squadron defined in-universe with 12 fighters? I'm curious because this would help me gauge the scale of the damage.
Any input from the game designers?
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Played my 1st game using tie phantoms. they are a bit tricky and need to learn when to cloak and decloak but they do pack a punch when they hit with 4 attack dice.
Might actually pair one of them with the Decimator as well.
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Played my 1st game using tie phantoms. they are a bit tricky and need to learn when to cloak and decloak but they do pack a punch when they hit with 4 attack dice.
Might actually pair one of them with the Decimator as well.
One of my friends paired Chiraneau with Whisper. Whisper had Vet Instincts, Advanced Cloaking Device, Intelligence Agent, and Fire Control System - the Intelligence Agent gave info for how to use the decloak movement, the FCS made it even more lethal, and Vet Instincts gave him the Ace movement he needed. Chiraneau had Gunner, Predator, and I don't remember what else.
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I have Whisper with Kenkirk and I have 100 points total but I didn't put a crew with Whisper. Might have to tweak that and see what I can come up with thanks iam
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Edit: I'm kinda curious on what the squadron stands actually represent. Do they represent small flights, as in three actual fighters, or are they more representative of an actual squadron defined in-universe with 12 fighters? I'm curious because this would help me gauge the scale of the damage.
Any input from the game designers?
well, one way you could figure out.. how many fighter stands can a Victory class SD launch in the game?
in the setting, a Victory SD only has hanger space for 2 squadrons of TIEs.
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No ships launch any squadrons in Armada. They merely issue commands to squadrons already on the board.
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Each base is a squadron. As per the Rebel Fighter Squadron expansion pack,
By adding eight squadrons of A-wings, B-wings, X-wings, and Y-wings to your fleet...
and it includes 8 bases of fighters, two of each type.
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See, I'm not so certain of that. I think it's possible they're simply using the term 'squadron' as they do for their game: to refer to the base fighter unit.
If I do go by the number of fighters on the stand, the core game would fit very well with a Victory's 2 Squadron capacity of 24 ties, with room to spare for two more 'squadrons' (bases with three fighters each).
After all, there's no room for six 12-fighter squadrons aboard a single Victory ship, so where would the other 4 squadrons have com from if they are full 12-ship squadrons?
Secondly, on the Rebel side, the CR-90 has no fighter capacity under standard configs. It can order around a single squadron. The Nebulon, however, according to fiction, has capacity for 24 fighters (2 standard squadrons) as well. Granted, in fiction, we know that X-Wings are capable of hyperspace flight, so the two extra 'squadrons' assuming the base represents a 12-fighter squadron, could have come along free from the Nebulon's fighter bays.
I could see the possibility of Carriers not on board or participating in the fight.
I guess, one could look at how much damage a CR-90 does against a single fighter in the XWM game and see how that correlates with the Armada game.
What would be fun would be to use the Armada game to set up X-Wing dog-fights in a larger battle.
#P
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I have a better idea: It doesn't matter A "squadron" in Armada is a gameplay abstraction specifically so we don't get bogged down on silly nitpicking like this.
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Remember, the Abstraction is VERY strong in this game. I strongly recommend you completely ignore the entire concept of fighter capacity and fighters-per-base when looking at Armada. Similarly, I bet that trying to compare a CR90's Armada damage to an unknown number of X-Wings vs its X-Wing damage vs a single fighter will only bring you pain.
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Yeah and the ships that are "carriers" in setting have more command to issue orders to squadrons.
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I bet that trying to compare a CR90's Armada damage to an unknown number of X-Wings vs its X-Wing damage vs a single fighter will only bring you pain.
No it won't. I enjoy thought exercises like this. Gives me something to do when I'm not playing, which is quite often and for large periods of time.
I'm actually disappointed in the 1984-style bad-wrong-think statements you guys have just given me.
It's fine that you don't want to do it. But why are you making it an order for me?
And, I understand the game is abstracted. Both are. But, then I look at Nebula California, and I can't help but wonder.
One of the reasons I'm interested in at least establishing some sort of idea about scale is largely for potential Campaign play. Having a squadron roster for X-Wing, and even a command ship for Armada would be fun, and track their successes, failures, and ultimate demise. Both games can be used for that very purpose and don't have to be all-tournament-all-the-time.
Eventually, I could see wanting to come up with factions and fighters and ships that are outside official canon to pit against canon things. The Star Wars Galaxy is big enough to have some weird things come against the far-reaching galactic forces of the rebellion/new republic or empire. The writers of both the official and now defunct Legends stories certainly went to town.
But, to do any of that, a little context is necessary, whether the designers come out and say, or I come up with some justification to decide one way or another with my friends.
So, with that in mind: What kind of damage does a CR-90 take in X-Wing? I'm still a ways off from acquiring one.
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i don;t play the game, but IIRC one stand of fighters can be swapped with a single larger ship (YT-1300, Firespray, etc) so each stand being an actual group of 3 fighters probably would work from a rationalization standpoint.
plus in a campaign viewpoint, that would mean that you could bring more fighter stands per ship for the imperial side's overall fleet. which would probably make forces easier to balance.
though i do have to wonder.. where the heck does the Nebulon-B store it's fighters?
given its size relative to the falcon it doesn't look like it could even fit a hanger for fighters, much less two dozen of them.
(https://nicholassagan.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/starwars54385.jpg)
and that spar isn't long enough to dock two dozen TIE's externally.
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Erm, it's a medical/hospital frigate. The setting blurb for that particular ship stated that its hanger space were converted to med bays and bacta tanks as well having fewer weaponry.
Nebulon-B as originally built was an escort warship with a balanced armament of turbolaser and laser cannons to protect convoys against rebel raids, with hangar for 2 TIE squadrons to complement her role.
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It's fine that you don't want to do it. But why are you making it an order for me?
If you think that was an order, clearly I've been far too soft-spoken when giving actual orders. Might explain those folks who make a hobby of ignoring mod directives.
I was giving a suggestion, based on the fact that I strongly doubt that the satisfactory answer you seek actually exists. If you want to go ahead, feel free. Heck, there are probably folks on the FFG forums that would be very interested in your conclusions.
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Erm, it's a medical/hospital frigate. The setting blurb for that particular ship stated that its hanger space were converted to med bays and bacta tanks as well having fewer weaponry.
Nebulon-B as originally built was an escort warship with a balanced armament of turbolaser and laser cannons to protect convoys against rebel raids, with hangar for 2 TIE squadrons to complement her role.
except that every other neb-B we see looks exactly like the hospital ship. which suggests the mods were internal only. there is no room for a hanger at all, much less for 24 fighters.
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except that every other neb-B we see looks exactly like the hospital ship. which suggests the mods were internal only. there is no room for a hanger at all, much less for 24 fighters.
I don't know what to tell you only that in X-Wing Alliance, they did showed Nebulon-B with a hangar and if you look in INcredible Cross Section for Star War vehicles you can see the medical stuff are situated where the hangar would be. And being rebel, they probably removed any possible TIE external racks as well on Medical Frigate but she retained docking tubes that allow other ships like say Millennium Falcon to dock with her.
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I know its a "legends" thing now but there was a customized corrilian Corvette in one of the rogue squadron novels, where it had been modified to carry ~8 tie fighters in an internal hanger bay. granted the hanger bay took up most of 2-3 decks in its area and the rebel squadron involved (after capturing the ship) found that stuff had been moved around (a lot) to make it fit. but it still was done. Later the squadron (wraith squadron) made some modifications and fit in 9 of 12 xwings in the hanger, stuck 1 or 2 in other bays, and replaced 4 escape pods with tie fighters.
granted the rebels in many cases were much more willing to go with "field expedients" and in some cases were willing to forgo maintenance and service capability but it does show that it is at least theoretically possible.
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Secondly, on the Rebel side, the CR-90 has no fighter capacity under standard configs.
Actually, this is no longer true. It has now been established in a canon source (Star Wars: Rebels) that CR90's can carry fighters mated directly to the Corvette's numerous airlocks.
And come to think of it, it's also been established that the Neb B has a hangar bay, but I'll have to go look up the size. [FFG says that forward hangar bay has room for 24 fighters and two shuttles and the aft hull has a bay for six shuttles though they are noted as being of the small work-pod variety. Personally, the matching hull illustration makes the forward hull numbers seem somewhat generous. ]
-Jackmc
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So I found this on the X-Wing forums and man, is it impressive for fan-made stuff:
Heroes of the Aturi Cluster (http://dockingbay416.com/campaign/), a campaign system for piloting ships in X-Wing against an AI opponent.
A lot of the stuff is just what you'd expect (but very well done). Each player starts in an X- or Y-Wing (with a few points in upgrades for the Y), and gets XP that they can exchange for upgrades or for more Pilot Skill. When a player gets to PS4 they can swap to an A-Wing, B-Wing, or HWK (this is a Rebellion campaign, so no K-Wings!). Also, as players go up in PS they can have MULTIPLE Elite Talents, and even the opportunity to buy the unique abilities of named Pilots that they've equalled in PS.
But what impresses me is the AI system for Imperial ships. Each has a chart which follows a clear, logical path that makes it quick to move them and keep the game flowing - at least from first glance. And from the praise it gets, in practice as well.
Darnit. <_< Now I may have to buy a Rebel ship just to play this. Or borrow one from a friend.
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Defender Vessery and Punisher Redline. Is this really the psycho-bromance chainsaw it appears to be on paper?
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So I found this on the X-Wing forums and man, is it impressive for fan-made stuff:
Heroes of the Aturi Cluster (http://dockingbay416.com/campaign/), a campaign system for piloting ships in X-Wing against an AI opponent.
A lot of the stuff is just what you'd expect (but very well done). Each player starts in an X- or Y-Wing (with a few points in upgrades for the Y), and gets XP that they can exchange for upgrades or for more Pilot Skill. When a player gets to PS4 they can swap to an A-Wing, B-Wing, or HWK (this is a Rebellion campaign, so no K-Wings!). Also, as players go up in PS they can have MULTIPLE Elite Talents, and even the opportunity to buy the unique abilities of named Pilots that they've equalled in PS.
But what impresses me is the AI system for Imperial ships. Each has a chart which follows a clear, logical path that makes it quick to move them and keep the game flowing - at least from first glance. And from the praise it gets, in practice as well.
Darnit. <_< Now I may have to buy a Rebel ship just to play this. Or borrow one from a friend.
Why no K-wings they are a rebel ship?
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Why no K-wings they are a rebel ship?
Because K-Wing does not exist until some years after the Battle of Endor. Rebellion Era is taken to mean from end of the Republic (end of the Clones Wars and the "Revenge of the Sith) to Return of the Jedi and Battle of Endor.
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ah makes sense now
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And you have the B-Wing and A-Wing? showing up earlier than they were originally depicted in EU because of the latest cartoons.
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Nice. Care to share how the points and level-up system works?
On a side note, I was wrong about not picking up the Tantive 4. Managed to stop by a better stocked game shop while on a short work trip, and had the money on hand to get it.
For comparison purposes: The X-wing CR-90 has two hull sections, each with 8 points, plus shields (5/fore, 3/aft) - whereas the Armada CR-90 has 5 hull points total for all sections. Considering that most fighter craft have only 3 hull points to begin with, a simple /3 divisor really works, and the hit points from hull and shield on fighters would come out to a matching value in armada for a 3-fighter 'squadron'.
I'm happy that I can make that conclusion with some backing from the game stats. This means that I can even field "Mixed squadrons" by swathing out a squadron stand of one type for one of the other options in the expansion packs.
What's really funny: They even have a small campaign series that comes with the Tantive IV for use with the CR-90. Doesn't have any significant upgrade options or level-up rules, but it's still neat, and something I want to try.
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Okay, (and mind you I haven't had a chance to try it yet myself!) the basic principle is that you get an XP every time you perform certain actions - damaging an enemy ship, helping a comrade's ship with abilities like passing them a focus token or other means, destroying an enemy ship - and you can spend XP to raise your Pilot Skill, buy upgrades for your ship, and get Elite Pilot Talents for your pilot. As your PS goes up you can stack multiple EPTs on one pilot, and even buy the abilities of named pilots like Miranda Donei or Biggs Darklighter once you reach their PS.
When you get to PS4, you can change your ship to an A-Wing, B-Wing, or HWK. There are fan-made cards for everything from captured Imperial ships to Starvipers to K-Wings, but as written the campaign is before Endor, sooo... one guy's solution for Zs being weaker than other ships was have it as a starting ship, but in a pair, and if you wanted to change rides you lost both ships.
The tricky thing is that enemy opposition scales to the highest PS as well as enemy opposition; while 3 pilots might face four TIEs to start with, 6 pilots would face 6 ties, and having a high PS could put Aces in their number - and Aces, just like your characters, can have multiple EPTs. For instance, one of the TIE/In ships starts with Autothrusters, but if it's drawn as an Elite Pilot (which is denoted by scenario) it adds Push the Limit and a Shield Upgrade; if there are PS4+ heroes it adds Captain Kagi's ability (you HAVE to lock onto it if you go for a TL action and it's a valid target), PS6+ gives it Expert Handling, and PS8+ gives it Soontir's ability.
But which one of the four builds you get is up to a random draw, and there are cards for every non-basic TIE fighter in the deck as well as the Lambda.
It also has rules for ejecting and going to hyperspace, and a ton of other scenario specific rules - one of the missions is to capture a Lambda with an Imperial captain in it, and you've got to eliminate the escort AND deal hull damage to the ship before it surrenders. Next mission you're using it as bait to ambush imperial rescuers.
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Nice.
Thanks for the info.
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This week I finally get to order the Raider, MC80, Imperial-class and Rouges. Time to bring the big boys to the table...
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So I got to play my first Epic game last Saturday with my Raider and, aside from the fact that it took my friend nearly an hour to make his list, it was GREAT.
My list was a Raider + Decimator with Palpatine + 3 TIEs + Howlrunner + Darth Vader, his was a GR-75 Transport designed around the Jam action + a LOT of Aces, pretty much the entire list of the best Rebel Aces. Poe, Solo, Miranda, Corran, Dash, and... I think that might be it.
He ignored the Raider, as it was pointing off slightly in the wrong direction, in favor of my TIE mini-swarm and Vader. Vader survived a close-range barrage from Poe, Solo, AND Dash Rendar, giving me great faith in hunkering down behind Focus + Evade+ Emperor Palpatine in the regular game's future.
However, as the Raider was swinging slowly around, Han Solo came into range and the Single Turbolaser + main gun started pounding him down - helped by Vader's shooting as well. By the time it was fully aimed towards the more populated part of the board, Han Solo, the GR-75, and Poe were dead due to the Raider, the Decimator had ruined Corran Horn's day (and ship), and the Raider still had its Tibanna Gas reserves and full shields.
Lessons learned: focus fire on the larger ships to start with. If you have a Raider, start it aiming straight forward in the middle of the board so you can turn to whichever side is important, and that way it has a HUGE amount of the board under its four guns. Don't forget about Grand Moff Tarkin - I could have saved Vader if I had remembered it. Next time, ditch the Deci in favor of a cheap Lambda carrying Palpatine to add more numbers to a TIE swarm.
Oh, and the Medium Transport jammer is only good if you use it.
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The fighters were held at the bottom of the Nebulon B's front half. It's still pretty small, but I could see it.
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Took a 4 x Victory fleet with 4 Tie advanced (Vader was one) against my wife. Annihilated her fleet (AF II*2, MC30*2, CR90A, 3 X-Wing). Usually she bashes me, so this was extra special.
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It's been a while since I've played the Rebs, but my opponent was really growing to Loathe the YV-666 so I made a bog standard 4 X-wing list. In this era of turrets and arc dodgers and stress builds, it's kind of fun to remember what a tight formation of jousters can do when newer players are not used to that play style.
The fighters were held at the bottom of the Nebulon B's front half. It's still pretty small, but I could see it.
The illustration I have shows the forward bay as on the bottom deck of the front half just aft of the "keel".
-Jackmc
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The fighters were held at the bottom of the Nebulon B's front half. It's still pretty small, but I could see it.
Check out the Star Wars Incredible Cross Section.
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Armada lesson #317.
Do not cross the "T" of an Imperial-class Star Destroyer at ANY RANGE!
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Armada lesson #317.
Do not cross the "T" of an Imperial-class Star Destroyer at ANY RANGE!
The old Rebel Sourcebook from the West End games had some tactics. Crossing the T was one of them. I guess it works better for the West End games over Armada.
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Armada lesson #317.
Do not cross the "T" of an Imperial-class Star Destroyer at ANY RANGE!
The dagger shape of the hull is very suited to concentrating your firepower ahead, I think even the flank turrets has more or less an arc to fore as well.
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I think that the WEG book recommended doing it against the Mon Cal Cruiser, NOT the ISD, for the very same reason that the wedge shape let it concentrate all its firepower forward.
So, new Wave comes out this week or the week after for X-Wing. Much goodness for Scum & Villainy, and two tie-ins for the Star Wars Rebels cartoons. Also, some much-needed fixes for ordnance using lists. Any thoughts? Anyone looking forward to anything? I know I've got an Inquisitor's TIE on pre-order, his ability looks quite nice.
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Never saw any evidence that ordnance needed 'fixing' as they're plenty fun already, but I am definitely looking forward to Imp Vets.
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Never saw any evidence that ordnance needed 'fixing' as they're plenty fun already, but I am definitely looking forward to Imp Vets.
For gameplay effectiveness when compared to, say, a Twin Laser Turret equipped model (or just a straight B-wing) it's kinda like comparing the AC/5 to a PPC as a main gun on a straight tonnage basis: Yes, they seem to have similar function, but barring some specialty ammo there's no real game reason to accept one aside from fluff.
There are exceptions, but until Extra Munitions hit the table ordnance was regarded in 'competitive' circles as throwing points away. Now, with Guidance Chips, there's actually a REASON to use them. Can't wait for Long Range Scanners from Imp Vets too, because that'll actually make low-PS TIE Bombers (possibly) good!
One thing that I'm looking forward to recommending is Nera Dantels with Proton Torpedoes, Extra Munitions, and Guidance Chips. With her 360 degree firing arc, she'll be able to fire her torps at Aces easily and is guaranteed of at least one and probably two Crits on four dice - and can get two shots off, which is as long as she'll probably survive. B-Wings are... kinda glass cannony.
I mean, yes, I love chances to play casual, but I'm a competitive player at heart: I want to test my best against another's best and see who can come out on top.
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I'm kinda leery of long range scanners. I can see their use, but I just know that I'd get one good shot off with them, then find myself unable to open the range again, leaving my other missiles useless. Maybe on ships that'll just have the one salvo like Defenders or Decimators, so they can get that one heavy hit early, then use their guns to finish the job.
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I am definitely looking forward to Imp Vets.
Me too. Also agree with you on the long range scanners
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I'm kinda leery of long range scanners. I can see their use, but I just know that I'd get one good shot off with them, then find myself unable to open the range again, leaving my other missiles useless. Maybe on ships that'll just have the one salvo like Defenders or Decimators, so they can get that one heavy hit early, then use their guns to finish the job.
Have one missile or torpedo that spends the target lock, and load up on other ordnance that either requires a focus to fire or doesn't spend the target lock.
Homing Missiles, Ion Pulse Missiles, and Proton Rockets come to mind, with perhaps Cluster Missiles to take advantage of a good opportunity at range 1-2.
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Wait, those don't burn TarLocks?!? :o
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Nope! Homing Missiles and Ion Pulse Missiles don't require you to spend the target lock, just have one. Proton Rockets don't require a target lock at all, and don't require you to spend the focus to fire, just have one.
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Nope! Homing Missiles and Ion Pulse Missiles don't require you to spend the target lock, just have one. Proton Rockets don't require a target lock at all, and don't require you to spend the focus to fire, just have one.
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The old Rebel Sourcebook from the West End games had some tactics. Crossing the T was one of them. I guess it works better for the West End games over Armada.
The advice was in regards to a fleet action and in theory it makes sense as you are using the Imp to block the fire of the trailing ships. Of course, this is rubbish advice in space as all the trailing Imps have to do is displace on the Z axis to clear their guns.
-Jackmc
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Long Range Scanners.
What they do for low PS ordnance ships is pretty simple if you think about it.
Scimitar TIE Bomber (PS2) moves towards Captain Oicunn (PS4), checks for a TL, is out of range, Focuses instead. Oicunn moves towards the Scimitar, is NOW in range for the TL, gets it, and uses it to unload into the Scimitar. Next turn, the Scimitar is close enough for a TL but will have taken two rounds of shooting before it's even had the chance to fire its weapons. That makes ordnance... bad.
LRC now lets the Scimitar lock on despite being 'out of range' and poses a threat to the higher-PS ship. Because of its long range value, it now lets the ship grab a Focus token on its way in to strengthen its attack - or fire as soon as the ship moves into Range 3 to grab its own TL.
Or you combine it with a higher-PS ship with the new Tracers ordnance which then fires and gives a free TL to all the ships within range 1 - letting those lower PS ships use Focus actions on their turns and spend the TL to focus fire on their targets. A Z-swarm using Blount as the leader with a bunch of Z's carrying Cluster Missiles seems favorite among some people's plans.
Large ships with turrets are... no longer the low skill option. You're gonna have to be good to keep a Decimator or YT-1300 alive agin those odds.
I'm not a doomsayer here. I think that the new fixes are going to make Ordnance viable in addition to a lot of the current good lists. It'll push the Deci and Falcon even further out of the meta, but that's something I've made peace with.
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Long Range Scanners.
What they do for low PS ordnance ships is pretty simple if you think about it.
Scimitar TIE Bomber (PS2) moves towards Captain Oicunn (PS4), checks for a TL, is out of range, Focuses instead. Oicunn moves towards the Scimitar, is NOW in range for the TL, gets it, and uses it to unload into the Scimitar. Next turn, the Scimitar is close enough for a TL but will have taken two rounds of shooting before it's even had the chance to fire its weapons. That makes ordnance... bad.
That's not ordnance being bad, that's just the nature of target locks and how they work. Sometimes it just sucks to be the cruddy pilot. It would apply even if the Bomber were replaced by a non-missile boat.
That being said, I do agree that's a situation where long-range scanners would benefit, since the Bomber Scimitar would indeed be able to fire missiles that turn. I'm just worried about the turns after that, when the Bomber must try to stay at range 3 or more to get those locks, but may find it impossible to open the distance.
On the other hand, a well-flown bomber or Punisher might be able to circle the outside of a furball, occasionally darting in to fire off missiles, and on turns that it doesn't, using the tarlock to try and spook enemies into predictable maneuvers. I think it'll all come down to how good the player is, and I'm under no illusions that I could be anywhere near very good.
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Ordnance's action inefficiency and its high points cost makes it a sub-par choice. It works fine for the most part when it actually gets to fire, but it's difficult (compared to a normal attack and the points invested) to shoot it and a lot of points if you don't get it off before the ship goes up in smoke.
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Ordnance's action inefficiency and its high points cost makes it a sub-par choice. It works fine for the most part when it actually gets to fire, but it's difficult (compared to a normal attack and the points invested) to shoot it and a lot of points if you don't get it off before the ship goes up in smoke.
Odd. Your words are the exact opposite of my experience. Missiles galore, and durable boats. It's actually pretty rare for me to fly a Punisher and it not finish the game(alive or dead) with only one or two salvos left in it, usually some sort of bomb. What am I doing wrong?
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I'm assuming (and am prepared to be delighted if I'm wrong) that you don't play in tournaments or against the sort of high-level competition you'd find in a tournament setting.
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Not yet. Pay-to-play at any cost level is often an insurmountable barrier to me, and I have plenty of fun just flying against buddies.
On the upside, if I ever do make it to a tourney and get my ass kicked, decades of playing Battletech have taught me well how to simply enjoy a game and not be a sore loser, so a loss will be no big loss for me. O0
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The tournament environment for X-wing is generally very friendly, but I can definitely understand the cost barrier for it. I fly my X-wings with a Proton Torpedo (on Wedge), and you'd probably be amused at how many shocked or startled "you have what now?" I get from people across the table.
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That being said, I do agree that's a situation where long-range scanners would benefit, since the Bomber Scimitar would indeed be able to fire missiles that turn. I'm just worried about the turns after that, when the Bomber must try to stay at range 3 or more to get those locks, but may find it impossible to open the distance.
In that vein, what are your thoughts on the following list?
Jendon & Weapons Engineer in ST-231
2 Scimitar Squadron Pilot Bombers w/ Extra Munitions. Munition Failsafes, and Cluster Missiles
Omega Leader with Juke
-Jackmc
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In that vein, what are your thoughts on the following list?
Jendon & Weapons Engineer in ST-231
2 Scimitar Squadron Pilot Bombers w/ Extra Munitions. Munition Failsafes, and Cluster Missiles
Omega Leader with Juke
-Jackmc
I hadn't even considered Jendon with ST-231 in an ordnance squad, that's a quite fine idea. I'm fond of 4-ship squadrons; they have resiliency to bad luck that's lacking in 2-3 ship builds, and don't rely on mostly-naked ships like pure swarms. However, Weapons Engineer is probably not necessary with THIS build; he can only pass one lock a turn anyway.
Munition Failsafes aren't as good as Guidance Chips; GCs are free pointswise and turn a miss into a hit automatically - on EACH roll of Cluster Missiles. Value! Yes, they don't come out until this week or the next, but frankly it'd be worth waiting til then.
With Omega Leader, don't skimp - Comms Relay means that he can Evade early on and keep that token for Juke while he TLs or Focuses - and OL is a 'last man standing' ship. He can win against almost anything one-on-one (I've seen him take down a full Vader, Poe, and Soontir!) so save him til the end - or point him at the opposing ace early on.
So (IMHO) the list should be:
29 Jendon: ST-231
26 Omega Leader: Juke, Comms Relay
22 Scimitar Squadron: Extra Munitions, Cluster Missiles, Guidance Chips
22 Scimitar Squadron: Extra Munitions, Cluster Missiles, Guidance Chips
That brings you to 99 points, enough for either TIE Mk. II on Omega Leader (not so good) or Electronic Baffle on Jendon (aces in my book).
Yes, some of this isn't available quite yet, but if you want practice with munitions lists you probably can make do without using GChips. You should still toss some serious fear with TL + Focus on the same turn with the Scimitars, and OL is just really good with Juke and Comms.
What I've been using lately is this:
33 Omicron Group Pilot: Emperor Palpatine, Engine Upgrade
17 'Wampa': Hull Upgrade
23 Lieutenant Colzet: TIE/x1, Accuracy Corrector
27 Omega Leader: Juke, Comms Relay, TIE Mk. II
The thing I like about this list is there's NO good choices. Wampa has to be targeted first, as Palpatine can turn any roll he makes into an automatic damage card; Colzet then uses his Target Locks to flip them over into crits; Omega Leader hangs around the back and waits for an opening (and acts as reserve), and the Lambda's Engine Upgrade makes it super maneuverable (for a Lambda). Hull Upgrade on Wampa throws off some maths regarding how hard it is to kill him, letting him get two or three shots off before he dies.
First chance I get, though, I'm swapping out OL's TIE Mk. II for Electronic Baffle on the Lambda. There's just too many reds on the Lambda dial to pass up the chance to ignore them - even at the cost of damage.
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In that vein, what are your thoughts on the following list?
Jendon & Weapons Engineer in ST-231
2 Scimitar Squadron Pilot Bombers w/ Extra Munitions. Munition Failsafes, and Cluster Missiles
Omega Leader with Juke
-Jackmc
My thoughts are the Bombers look fun, and I have no thoughts on cards I've never seen before, so cannot comment on any of the rest.
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Armada lesson #317.
Do not cross the "T" of an Imperial-class Star Destroyer at ANY RANGE!
I dunno, I've crossed the "T" 3 times, MC80 vs ISD, and prevailed 2/3 of the time. It helps when you're using Ackbar, the Defiance, enhanced armament, concentrate firepower, you're at medium range and they've already activated their ISD. (I know, lots of requirements). Rolled enough "Target locks" so he couldn't brace and I think I averaged 7 hits each time, his shields ate up 4 of the shots, but that's still 3 hits to the hull.
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Question, can Kanan Effect the ship he is on? If so, it might be kind of fun to put on a Han Falcon with Engine Upgrade and Push the Limit. Maybe toss on Ezra to boost Han's shooting. If Hera had an EPT slot, I'd do it on the ghost in a heart beat.
-Jackmc
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Question, can Kanan Effect the ship he is on? If so, it might be kind of fun to put on a Han Falcon with Engine Upgrade and Push the Limit. Maybe toss on Ezra to boost Han's shooting. If Hera had an EPT slot, I'd do it on the ghost in a heart beat.
-Jackmc
The ship he's on is a friendly ship at range 1-2, so yeah, it can. Compare the wording to Howlrunner's: "When another friendly ship at Range 1..." Oh, if only Howlie-chan gave herself a reroll...
The only problem is the order of activation. Because PTL only triggers off of actions, and you don't perform actions until AFTER maneuvers are executed, you'd have to have something like Advanced Sensors in order to really abuse Kanan+PTL: Every turn, use Adv. Sensors to do two maneuvers from PTL and THEN execute your white maneuver to remove the stress. It's why BB-8 and PTL are so well-regarded: Reveal the green maneuver, perform the BB-8 barrel roll, trigger PTL from that and get stress, finish the green maneuver and remove stress, then take your normal action. Corran Horn never looked so good!
Although Kanan still works even without Advanced Sensors, and basically lets you remove stress even on whites - or two stress on a green movement. That's really good, especially with Stresshog (Y-Wing+BTL-A4+Twin Laser Turret+R3-A2, giving out two stress a turn when it attacks) being so popular as a Rebel set piece.
Sadly, the only Rebel ship with an EPT, System, AND Crew slot, the B-Wing, can't really abuse Adv. Sensors+Kanan+PTL. Too expensive on too frail a ship.
Darn Rebels, getting the best crew cards! Now, where's Emperor Palpatine, heh heh heh...
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Shouldn't that be with pinky and the brain?
Picked up today a tie defender and the rebel aces. Built a squad with the tie defender and VT 49
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Any idea has to when the ghost and the mist hunter are going to be released?
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If memory serves me right, they said 3/17 on their twitter account.
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I've heard the 17th as well. They shipped to distributors on the 1st. I expect some of the internet places to ship them just as soon as they get them to symbolically fly the bird at FFG/Asmodee before they get driven out of business by the anti-internet retailer price changes in April.
-Jackmc
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miniature market is sold out on the punishing one and the ghost for pre-order
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There is another Star Wars game coming out from Fantasy Flight Games called Star Wars Rebellion. It will be a more Strategic size game with different planets and objectives. Liking the Miniatures.
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Checked out on the FFG forums for X-wing apparently X-wing has taken over as the top table top game from GW. Sadly BT wasn't even in the top 5 of wherever they got that list though.
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It's ICv2's charts, which covers sales from distributors to hobby shops - so it doesn't include GW's own shops. Even so it's a pretty major blow to the workshop.
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Doubly so since until a few years ago Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer were separate categories, both of which were on the top 5... until WFB slipped off and GW combined the two.
I like the fact that the ships are so (relatively) cheap I can afford to support my FLGS by actually BUYING there instead of NEEDING to shop online.
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Apparently "warhammer" in the ICv2 chart is just 40K.
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It's interesting that X-Wing and Armada got in the top 5 of the games. Nothing new has come out for both since November. I'm sure Star Wars 7 had something to do with that.
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One point that a poster made was that the ranking came from independent retailers, so if Warhammer stores were included, they would likely rank 1st. Not a bad effort for FFG either way.
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I'm kinda surprised they haven't released Resurgent SD for Armada yet.
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It's interesting that X-Wing and Armada got in the top 5 of the games. Nothing new has come out for both since November. I'm sure Star Wars 7 had something to do with that.
Probably very true and all the new stuff comes out according to some people next week for X-wing. Don't play Armada yet
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Probably very true and all the new stuff comes out according to some people next week for X-wing. Don't play Armada yet
Armada Wave 3 has been announced: Flotillas of Gozantis and Rebel Transports.
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Armada Wave 3 has been announced: Flotillas of Gozantis and Rebel Transports.
I hope there is more then just those ships coming out.
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I hope there is more then just those ships coming out.
If not that an increase in the wave frequency.
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I'm hoping, now that I'm meeting more local gamers, to get to play these. I have enough X-Wing to play (Original Starter, extra TIE, TIE Defender, E-Wing, Rebel Transport w/ Hobbie), for Armada I have only the Victory-class, what a beautiful model though :), and I'll pop for the Starter if I meet anyone that wants to play.
Was going to get an ISD, bout BT minis instead this month.
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The carrier and the transports are great. But if you count the sku's there are 2 before those two. So we will see if there is more coming out.
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Link? I see a lot of discussion on the FFG forums, but can't find the actual news.
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Link? I see a lot of discussion on the FFG forums, but can't find the actual news.
Linky: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/3/16/bigger-battles-better-tactics/
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Force multipliers! >:D
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Carriers and Transports, oh my!
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Some folks lost there minds completely there. I would not be surprised with smaller, cheaper waves to make i easier to buy in and perhaps ease any production bottlenecks that larger waves might create.
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The waves have been at at least 5 or 6 different sets each wave. Hopefully more will come out then these 2.
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True, and there is the two unfilled numbers, but whatever arises will be underlain by production requirements across not only the Armada line, but the entire company.
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Y'know, the Armada fighters (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51715.0;attach=34817;image) really do look better painted.
Now that I have a version of the game, here's an interesting note on Ship Scales, for those who are interested:
The Victory Class Star Destroyer is supposed to be 900 meters long. The Armada Model is 136mm, making it approximately 1/6617.
The Nebulon B Frigate is supposed to be 300 meters long. (Not too far off ye olde Enterprise from the OS or Movies.) The Armada Model is 92mm long, making it approximately 1/3260.
The CR-90 was originally 150 meters long. That's been changed, but we'll stick with this for now. The Armada Model is 58mm, making it approximately 1/2586. This is kinda interesting because the Micro Machines CR-90 is 60mm, making it 1/2500 on the dot.
The Tie Fighter Figures are 9mm long. The Tie Fighter is supposed to have a length of 8.99m, making for approximately 1/998. Kinda funky since the X-Wing Ties are 32mm long, which would make them 8.6m at the stated 1/270 - making for 1/955.
The X-Wing Fighter Figures are 15mm long. The X-Wing is supposed to have a length of 12.5m, making for approximately 1/833. By contrast, the X-Wing X-Wings are 45mm long, which would make them 12.15m at the stated 1/270 - making for 1/810.
Fun little bit of worthless knowledge. Of course, when you get down to that small a scale, it is hard to get things to line up exactly for a nice easy conversion.
But, there you go.
I'm interested in the Cargo ships, because I have a Micro Machines one, and some from the old Tiger Electronic Battle Ship. The EBS ones are very close to 1/2500, and I'm curious how they'll compare.
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Why does Barnes and Noble have to have such a crappy search function on their web store? I like to see if the somewhat local stores have the new stuff before I drive out there. Everything I search either comes up with the core set and the raider and nothing else, or just a huge selection of random star wars crap that may or may not include game expansions.
Meanwhile, I'm getting Barnes and Noble banner adds all over the internet trying to sell me x-wing minis. Pretty bad when your tracking cookies are better than your website's search feature.
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I'm loving the list building app for Android. Now if I can only win my first game with the right list
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I'm loving the list building app for Android. Now if I can only win my first game with the right list
Which app are you using?
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X-wing squadron builder. On both my phone and tablet.
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X-wing squadron builder. On both my phone and tablet.
I use one called X-Wing Squads Designer, it's not in the play store (it used to be but was removed, probably due to him using images of the various cards)
I see another one, Startactics: Squadron builder that is pretty highly rated. May have to check it out.
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The one I am using is by Jesus galvez. You can read the cards. Add your collection find out what packs have what cards and such. I'm building more squads than what I have played
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Scales and miniatures have always been off. some ships in The Star Wars universe are huge and some are tiny. But I don't want to spend $20 on something that is no larger then a inch long.
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Placed a major order online at miniature market and took 2 day shipping. Ordered the Ghost, Inquisitor's Tie, Tie Punisher, The Most Wanted and Slave 1. Really looking forward to the Ghost
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Score! I was in Anchorage for training and dropped by the FLGS and they were running a 20% off Sale on SW merchandise. Picked up the Bespin mat, Inquisitor, Mist Hunter, Punishing One and Ghost.
-Jackmc
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At a local tournie I heard that most of the attendees were using the Punishing One. I have to wait for my FLGS to get it in other than that my order arrives tomorrow
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The latest Death Star (hehee) in the game is actually TRIPLE Punishing Ones, more specifically triple Contracted Scouts all set up along these lines:
Contracted Scout (25)
Deadeye (1)
Extra Munitions (2)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
R4 Agromech (2)
Guidance Chips (0)
The basic idea is that you move in, Focus, use your Focus to fire your munitions, R4 Agromech gives you a Target Lock thanks to the Focus, and Guidance Chips guarantees at least one hit. It has a 70%+ chance of generating FOUR hits, not counting the extra Plasma Torpedo anti-shield hit.
It's not just a flash in the pan list either; it's been ruling the on-line (Vassal) version since it came out, obliterating a lot of common competitive lists and forcing a serious sea-change. It's not unbeatable, but it IS very strong and requires a different way of list building. Sadly, one of the strongest ships against it (TIE/x7 Defenders) isn't available yet.
But there are basically two ways to beat it: Kill one of them before they all three get a chance to fire (which requires Pilot Skill 4+ on a large number of high-damage ships), or having a target to suck down the damage while your finisher arc dodges and cleans up after they've emptied out. Heck, a lot of people (including me!) are embracing the TIE Punisher, specifically Redline, in order to clobber it.
I find two things hilarious about it: The fight between naming it Wolfpack and Triple U-Boats, and that the guy in my local meta who religiously follows the most powerful netlists was caught flatfooted and only bought two Punishing Ones... and can't find a third to finish it off. ;D ;D ;D
.....******, I REALLY wish that I could get a serious Alpha Strike group going up here so I wouldn't have to follow meta-fashions of a game like this.
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The latest Death Star (hehee) in the game is actually TRIPLE Punishing Ones, more specifically triple Contracted Scouts all set up along these lines:
Contracted Scout (25)
Deadeye (1)
Extra Munitions (2)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
R4 Agromech (2)
Guidance Chips (0)
The basic idea is that you move in, Focus, use your Focus to fire your munitions, R4 Agromech gives you a Target Lock thanks to the Focus, and Guidance Chips guarantees at least one hit. It has a 70%+ chance of generating FOUR hits, not counting the extra Plasma Torpedo anti-shield hit.
It's not just a flash in the pan list either; it's been ruling the on-line (Vassal) version since it came out, obliterating a lot of common competitive lists and forcing a serious sea-change. It's not unbeatable, but it IS very strong and requires a different way of list building. Sadly, one of the strongest ships against it (TIE/x7 Defenders) isn't available yet.
But there are basically two ways to beat it: Kill one of them before they all three get a chance to fire (which requires Pilot Skill 4+ on a large number of high-damage ships), or having a target to suck down the damage while your finisher arc dodges and cleans up after they've emptied out. Heck, a lot of people (including me!) are embracing the TIE Punisher, specifically Redline, in order to clobber it.
I find two things hilarious about it: The fight between naming it Wolfpack and Triple U-Boats, and that the guy in my local meta who religiously follows the most powerful netlists was caught flatfooted and only bought two Punishing Ones... and can't find a third to finish it off. ;D ;D ;D
.....******, I REALLY wish that I could get a serious Alpha Strike group going up here so I wouldn't have to follow meta-fashions of a game like this.
It's been killing it on VASSAL, but so far I've not seen it do particularly well in a store tournament.
If I had to guess why, it's because the best players don't play on VASSAL. ^-^
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99/100 that is a nasty list
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It's been killing it on VASSAL, but so far I've not seen it do particularly well in a store tournament.
If I had to guess why, it's because the best players don't play on VASSAL. ^-^
Paul Heaver does a lot of Vassal, and last I heard, he was the 2015 Worlds Champion. And 2014 Worlds Champion.
From what I've been hearing from just this weekend, it's a list that makes it to Top 4/Top 8 a LOT, usually in multiples, because it murders a lot of currently 'popular' archetypes (Regen Rebels with Poe/Miranda, Palpaces, 4 TLT), but the winners are the ones who knew it was a possibility to face it and took things that were good against it, or knew how to fly well enough to destroy it. One list I saw that looked like a LOT of fun was a swarm of 5 Green Squadron A-Wings (Chaardan Refit, Prototype Pilot, Adaptability, Autothrusters, Crack Shot), but that's also a LOT of money thar.
Me, I'm going a little more simply than that.
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Not denying it's a good list, but I'd wager 10:1 that it's popular because it's easy while still being good. That's the trend in X-wing. The most played lists, and therefore those most represented in Top 4/8, are those that don't require a lot of skill to play, because they can be picked up easiest and perform well even if a mistake or two happens.
It was the same with double Phantoms before the Phantom nerf (tell me with a straight face it takes skill to play a ship that gets three maneuvers after every one else has moved, and gets 4 defense dice, minimum, against every attack), it was the same with Double Falcons before Phantoms came out, it was the same for a while there with Brobots and TLT (though their reigns were shorter).
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Heck I will be honest here is that I have 3 phantom list and yet I still haven't won a game. I am still having fun playing the game and building lists and I hope that one day I do get a victory when that happens who knows... A friend of mine believes that its all about my tactics well tactics go out the door because everybody is different and if you bump a ship or park on an asteroid its pretty much changes the tactics that you are trying to do.
Scotty from what I have heard talking with people who have been playing this game since day 1 though is that EVERYBODY uses a list that is the same or similar to what some of the top players in the WORLD are using for this game now do they have luck like the top players probably not but its the fact that they are going to use whatever list they feel like to win or help them win. I would love to see some of the lists done by Paul Heaver who is a 3 time world champion for X-wing would they help me out who knows...
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Scotty from what I have heard talking with people who have been playing this game since day 1 though is that EVERYBODY uses a list that is the same or similar to what some of the top players in the WORLD are using for this game now do they have luck like the top players probably not but its the fact that they are going to use whatever list they feel like to win or help them win. I would love to see some of the lists done by Paul Heaver who is a 3 time world champion for X-wing would they help me out who knows...
This doesn't change what I said. Popular lists get popular because they work and they're easy to fly. That's also why they emerge so quickly when new cards come out; they're easy to learn, easy to use, and you don't need a lot of experience with that ship or card in order to use it well.
X-wing Aces kick serious ass. No one uses them because the learning curve on them is a brick wall and making a mistake ends the game in a loss. If you don't make a mistake and you know what you're doing, you'll win most games against most matchups.
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And X-Wing definitely has tiers of ships, some of which are always good, some of which are sometimes good, and some of which are NEVER good - and the top lists are usually made up of those ships at the very top.
The lists Paul won with are a matter of public record.
Poe Dameron + R2‑D2 + Veteran Instincts + Autothrusters
Gold Squadron Pilot + R3‑A2 + BTL‑A4 Y‑wing + Twin Laser Turret
Gold Squadron Pilot + Twin Laser Turret
Bandit Squadron Pilot
It has a lot of HP, puts out reliable damage with the Twin Laser Turrets, has what most people considered one of the best ships in the game with the Stresshog (R3-A2 + BTL-A4 title lets the Y-Wing put two Stress onto a single target), a shield regen Poe as its Ace and counter-Ace, and a cheap blocking Z-95 to mess up other player's actions. The previous year was just a Super Fat Han Solo and 3 cheap Z-95s. But those were in a different meta and a different time - Fat Han was just a response to how utterly broken Phantoms used to be, and ordnance lists with high spike damage eat TLT lists like popcorn.
I would say, for a new player, that triple Phantoms is hard because it's not forgiving - one mistake and you're DONE. Try a list that has a little more resilience to it, with 4 ships at least; what other ships do you own?
Hell, I don't even like to run ONE Phantom, because it's got no forgiveness to it and it's so expensive.
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I would say, for a new player, that triple Phantoms is hard because it's not forgiving - one mistake and you're DONE. Try a list that has a little more resilience to it, with 4 ships at least; what other ships do you own?
Hell, I don't even like to run ONE Phantom, because it's got no forgiveness to it and it's so expensive.
Well I know how hard the triple phantoms are and definitely with the phantoms you want to win the initiative where as in my case I lost it. And it was fun but I lost because of stupid mistakes on my part either not decloaking when I should have or other stuff. Will I play it again yes and I felt comfortable with it. However when that happens I don't know I am having a lot of fun playing a variety of lists and learning the game.
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My ships arrived today AWESOME :D
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My FLGS's local power cheese player just picked up 3 Jumpmasters last night. I just had to shake my head.
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Stupid Barnes and Noble. Pretty sure they're going to get this stuff in the day after all my coupons expire. :'(
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My FLGS's local power cheese player just picked up 3 Jumpmasters last night. I just had to shake my head.
Seriously?
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My FLGS's local power cheese player just picked up 3 Jumpmasters last night. I just had to shake my head.
It's beatable. I put the fear into the local power player when I described beating it with a list that's been his bugaboo for eight months: Rear Admiral Chiraneau and Whisper.
There are several major ways to beat it: deny the JM's action so they can't focus, roll 11-16 dice at PS4+ and R1-2 to kill one before it fires, Biggs+R4-D6 to divert the first round's firing, have a large cheap ship to take the torps and arc dodgers to deal real damage, or just go straight arc dodging Aces.
The list that looked like the most fun to me to play (which I can't play!) was 5 Green Squadron A-Wings with Test Pilot, Adaptability, Crack Shot, Chaardan Refit, and Autothrusters. But man... that'd be expensive... 3 Rebel Aces, 2 A-Wings, 5 Kihrahz, 3 Mist Hunters, 3 Starvipers.
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Ran this list tonight:
Black Sun Enforcer (25)
Black Sun Enforcer (25)
Contracted Scout (25)
Adaptability (0)
Intelligence Agent (1)
Ruthless Freelancer (23)
Mist Hunter (0)
Tractor Beam(1)
Total: 100
Good amount of hitpoints (27 in four ships), phenomenal blocking, and shenanigans with the tractor beam to set up shots and ruin days. My first game flying this tonight was against a guy using Paul Heaver's list, and on the second turn of shooting I used IA to see Poe's maneuver, barrel rolled the Scout to block it, and then tractor beamed Poe into range 1 of two focused up StarVipers. Poe didn't make it, and the rest of the game was basically just clean up. I like it.
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So we've been playing a LOT of Heroes of the Aturi Cluster (http://dockingbay416.com/campaign/), the co-op campaign, and I have to say...
Soooo much fun. You have to plan ahead, but doing so makes you excited to play more games and get more XP because of what you WANT to do!
I'm running White Mage, a pure support character in an HWK - though the Twin Laser Turret helps my damage a lot. I picked up Roark's ability (one friendly in Range 1-3 becomes PS12 for shooting), and I'm aiming at Esege's ability (friendlies in range 1-2 can use my Focus tokens as their own for attacking) and then eventually Jake Farrell's and Miranda Donei's abilities - none of the traditional EPTs seem to do much for my build. I also have Moldy Crow, Recon Specialist - hoard ALL the focus! - and a Scum Cloaking Device for emergencies, like flying right in front of three TIE fighters.
What I'm recommending for most offensive players to pick up as quickly as possible is Predator; what with all the low PS enemies it's super valuable.
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Anybody got the new dials yet and how many come in a package? $7.99 would be expensive for just 1 so I am assuming at least 2?
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Anybody got the new dials yet and how many come in a package? $7.99 would be expensive for just 1 so I am assuming at least 2?
They come in packs of 3.
Each Maneuver Dial Upgrade Kit offers three sculpted plastic shells for your squadron’s maneuver dials. To use one of these plastic shells, you simply take the cardboard maneuver dial token that shows a ship’s maneuvers and insert it into the plastic housing. Once situated, you can push the plastic maneuver selection marker into place, and you’re ready to take your ship into any interstellar dogfight with confidence
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Thanks xtrahm.
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So apropos of nothing, I'm currently on bed/couch rest and decided to watch Episodes III through VII. In addition to seeing Vader a bit differently and paying closer attention to the word 'compassion' I did catch an Armada related note: GR-75 flotillas. It may just be a trick of populating the screen with ships to add density and motion but just as the Rebel fleet began its jump to attack the Death Star there are at least two pairs of GR-75s in close proximity to one another and in near proximity to a capital ship of some sort. Also, after Ackbar directs "take evasive action", two GR-75s move in formation to the left away from Home One.
It will be interesting to see how the addition of flotillas affect gameplay.
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Has anybody on here played an epic ship battle in X-wing?
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I have, but only with the corvette. It was awhile ago though.
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Has anybody on here played an epic ship battle in X-wing?
I did, it was a rebel aces thing (with a medium transport) versus my Raider. Sad thing is, I pointed the Raider in the wrong direction to start with, so it took me a bit to turn around - by the time I had, about 100 points of my own list had gone down in flames.
However, they'd damaged the opposition just enough that the Raider utterly rained death upon them.
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So, thoughts on Moralo Eval in a YV-666 with Tractor Beam and Tactical Jammer to channel stuff to a couple of S&V heavy hitters?
-Jackmc
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So, thoughts on Moralo Eval in a YV-666 with Tractor Beam and Tactical Jammer to channel stuff to a couple of S&V heavy hitters?
Moralo's PS is a little low, but then again he might be good with a swarm of sorts to back him up with that configuration.
What I was personally thinking of for the YV-666 as a wingman for Super Dengar (Dengar with PTL, Engine Upgrade, Title, K4 Sec Droid and Unhinged Astromech) was Bossk with Crack Shot, Mangler Cannon, Boba Fett, Greedo, and Gonk. The basic idea is that Mangler Cannon adds crits, which Bossk turns into more hits after comparing dice results - and the first card gets turned face-up with Greedo anyway, which then can trigger Boba Fett's ability! Gonk is there because the damage is fairly action-independent, meaning you can Gonk as you slow-roll into combat, and then once you're hit you can Gonk and still keep up pressure while regening shields and preventing Greedo's downside from triggering... in theory.
Also, it fires after Super Dengar so that gives a higher chance of punching through shields to trigger Boba. Crack Shot's there to use if you need to deal damage to a ship but it rolls an inconvenient number of Evades.
you could drop Crack Shot, Greedo, and Gonk to get Engine Upgrade instead. The Trandoshan Slaver is so slow that I'd really like it to have the EU, but I really like the idea of those three bounty hunters just chillaxin' on the same ship, waiting to rain hell on anyone in their way.
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https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/4/25/defend-the-empire/
Holy green K-turns, BatMoff! :o
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https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/4/25/defend-the-empire/
Holy green K-turns, BatMoff! :o
Well that's interesting. 2 varaints. 1 is an improved dogfighter. The other 1 is a better gunboat so to speak.
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The Red on the Tie/Df looks awesome.
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Played with some proxied x7 cards today, flying three Onyx Squadron Pilots with x7 and Stealth Device. Those buggers are tough. Focus and evade every single turn with four green dice at all ranges? Good lord.
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New box revealed for May the Fourth: Heroes of the Resistance (https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/5/4/these-are-your-first-steps/). Another Ace pack (with repainted ships), including a black T-70 Poe X-Wing, a new Falcon, new pilot cards for Rey, Chewie, Han, and several... interesting things.
2 copies of Integrated Astromech.
New Poe Dameron at PS9 rather than PS8, for 33 rather than 31 points. Opens up options for BB-8+PTL while still tying Soontir in the PS-game.
Rey as a YT1300 pilot can reroll up to two dice when attacking or defending ships in her arc. A PWT that cares about arc is interesting.
New Falcon title for 1 point - gives the Falcon the choice of turning 180 degrees after a 3 Bank in exchange for 1 Stress. Better than a new dial with red-3 Segnor's Loops because it's an OPTION - and still a white maneuver, meaning it can clear stress with Kanan.
T-70 Title "Black One" - lets you remove a target lock from a friendly ship in range one after performing a Barrel Roll or Boost. Restricted to PS6 or higher.
"Pattern Analyzer" Tech card - seemingly says something similar to "You may switch the Check Stress and Perform Action step," letting /FOs and T70s do their red maneuvers and still get actions.
"Smuggling Compartments" - a Mod slot for at least the YT-1300 and possibly -2600 that gives an Illicit Slot, and possibly another Modification at a lower price, the wording is obscured. Rebellion ships get Illicit slots? I almost hope that it also includes the HWK.
???? Illicit - gives Large ships the SLAM action. May have a flip-over clause similar to the new Illicit Cloaking Device.
Finn and Rey Crew cards. 1 new Astromech, 4 probably EPTs "Snap ???" and "Trick ???", 2 more cards that are entirely unknown, could be crew, could be another EPT.
Also, all the new ship cards are marked with Resistance icons, making it easy to differentiate between new/old Han, and opening up possibilities of friendly faction-specific upgrades.
This seems to be an expansion pack for the TFA Core Set, giving a solid price point for entry into the game and enough ships (with a Falcon and 2 T-70s) to start playing at a 'standard' level right away.
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looks fun. i think this just catapulted to the top of my wishlist for X-wing.
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Nothing for Armada?
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Last thing we got on that front was the Gozanti preview.
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The feeling on the FFG Armada board is that something should come out today. They also feel like neglected children over there at times too. Take it for what it's worth.
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The feeling on the FFG Armada board is that something should come out today. They also feel like neglected children over there at times too. Take it for what it's worth.
Well there are only so many ships they could do that we see in the movies or the cartoons. Most of the rest is expanded universe that they are now half ignoring. I still demand a Super Star Destroyer though. I have seen 2 foot long models of them on a certain 3d Printing site...
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Well there are only so many ships they could do that we see in the movies or the cartoons. Most of the rest is expanded universe that they are now half ignoring. I still demand a Super Star Destroyer though. I have seen 2 foot long models of them on a certain 3d Printing site...
I saw that one too, but also noted the designer's comment, "I've no idea how you'll put this together," on top of the exorbitant price tag. There was a card game preview today after the Imperial Assault update. It had a Nebulon B2 card...so I guess there is hope for that ship to make an appearance.
EDIT: The GR-75 preview is posted.
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Mmmm...force multipliers...my Marik side is pleased... >:D
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FFG's twitter has been pumping out star wars stuff today. I wonder if anyone in their press department has thought, "why didn't we do this Wednesday?" yet.
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Clearly, today is the Revenge of the Sixth. :)
On another note, the GR75 is a utility transport, essentially the pickup truck of deep space.
Does that mean that anyone actually willing to field an all-GR75 force must call it the Flight of the Toyotapocalypse? >:D
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The feeling on the FFG Armada board is that something should come out today. They also feel like neglected children over there at times too. Take it for what it's worth.
Frankly, that forum is full of some of the biggest whiners and complainers I have ever known - and I was on the official GW boards before GW shut them down so they wouldn't have to see all the complaint threads.
Gods, though, I want to get into Armada. It's just that initial price point that throws me for a game that I'd basically be buying all the ships for since no one I know would buy it themselves either. *sigh* I've already got Super Dungeon Explore for THAT, thank you very much.
I wish Armada had a smaller "entry point" kit that was just one faction only for like $60ish, but the initial price is such a killer.
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I wish Armada had a smaller "entry point" kit that was just one faction only for like $60ish, but the initial price is such a killer.
Try Amazon, or even Coolstuff or MiniatureMarket. The Core Set is within $15 of your target.
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bookdepository has it for about $70, cheaper than even amazon. plus most of the expansions and stuff for similar discounts.
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Aaaaand I'm also trying to finish off a D&D collection to have minis that will at least proxy for most things in the book (you would not believe the lengths I'm going to for STIRGES, for crying out loud!), debating an expansion into Scum & Villainy, and there's also the fact that no one up here is even interested in playing the damn game. Very depressing.
Oh, and money.
But mostly it's because no one up here will play it if they have to buy pieces too, and buying playable fleets for both sides seems somewhat expensive.
I am debating it, though.
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But mostly it's because no one up here will play it if they have to buy pieces too, and buying playable fleets for both sides seems somewhat expensive.
I'm in the same boat. There are very few Armada players in my local group, and of those, the only one that can show up on a regular basis has to use my stuff.
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I'm in the same boat. There are very few Armada players in my local group, and of those, the only one that can show up on a regular basis has to use my stuff.
And I don't really mind that, as right now my Battletech, Super Dungeon Explore, and Ninja All-Stars games are in the same category of "I own all the stuff, come use it."
But I have to fight against my natural urge to own ALL THE THINGS!!
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I just hope that Armada doesn't turn out like Aerotech or Starmada in my area, where I'm the only guy with the rulebook, so every game is a training game, and the advanced rules or strategies never come into play.
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I just hope that Armada doesn't turn out like Aerotech or Starmada in my area, where I'm the only guy with the rulebook, so every game is a training game, and the advanced rules or strategies never come into play.
I hope not too. The Miniatutes are of the best quality but are really expensive. $20 for the smallest ships is just way to much. I always see new playing it, so it's hard to get better at it for me. The ships are a little slow comming out.
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High price tag keeps most of the players away I think. X-Wing is just dead cheaper in comparison but just not as cool. I really want to fight battles with multiple Star Destroyers not battles with a few snub fighters.
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Just picked up a (X-Wing) Corvette and Raider for 25% off (SKr 1273, ~$160). Darn purchasing impulse... ::) Now to get my buddies here for an epic game!
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I picked up the Force Awakens starter for $20 at my flgs, and my brother and I played the tutorial tonight. I was the X-Wing, and he was the Ties. The X-Wing got smeared.
I really like the movement system. It's quick and effective, and it really feels like I'm flying the ship on the board.
So, any suggestions for how to beat the Tie/fo double team as a T-70?
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Lock-on is your friend.
So is focus. Upgrades of some sort will help, too, but since I don't have that particular game version, I can't say what.
A question about the product line: I was looking through FFG's list of stuff, and I noticed some missing numbers. SWX20 seems especially noticeable. What one would that be?
Thanks.
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Yesterday was a good day. 8)
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The E-Wing is such a nice mini.
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Bored with trying to do "competitive" builds, so now I'm off chasing silly themes to see how good I can make them in a casual play environment.
Right now my theme is "The Eval One" and the only requirements are the YV-666 with Moralo Eval and someone in Slave One, I have my ideas but I'm curious what some of the way more experienced players here can come up with.
-Jackmc
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I don't have any TIE Bombers, but one squad I'd like to try is this:
Captain Jonus; TIE Shuttle, Determination, 2x Intel officers
3x Gamma sqdrn veteran, Plasma torps, extra muntions, Deadeye
See if it can match the tripple Jumpmaster squad...
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Bored with trying to do "competitive" builds, so now I'm off chasing silly themes to see how good I can make them in a casual play environment.
Right now my theme is "The Eval One" and the only requirements are the YV-666 with Moralo Eval and someone in Slave One, I have my ideas but I'm curious what some of the way more experienced players here can come up with.
-Jackmc
Did you see yesterday's article on FFG's website, "Fly Casual: Because There Is Much, Much More to X-Wing™ Than Just Winning Tournaments"? Taking a page from Battletech, and the whole "if it works for you..." approach. Especially, if you are bored with competitive builds.
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I didn't but it doesn't surprise me. Since earlier editions of 40K, it's been clear that the casual player base is far larger than the competitive player base which means more earning potential. Plus with the Asmodee merger I bet FFG is trying to become a player in the European market and a large portion of Eruo gamers tend to frown on cut throat competitive play since they view gaming as more of a casual relaxed time with friends and family. It's one of the reasons GW HQ killed the US 'Ardboyz series and radically revamped 40K between the 5th and 6th Editions since the designer of 5th edition went a little rogue and delivered a ruleset that was very conducive to tournament play.
-Jackmc
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I didn't but it doesn't surprise me. Since earlier editions of 40K, it's been clear that the casual player base is far larger than the competitive player base which means more earning potential. Plus with the Asmodee merger I bet FFG is trying to become a player in the European market and a large portion of Eruo gamers tend to frown on cut throat competitive play since they view gaming as more of a casual relaxed time with friends and family. It's one of the reasons GW HQ killed the US 'Ardboyz series and radically revamped 40K between the 5th and 6th Editions since the designer of 5th edition went a little rogue and delivered a ruleset that was very conducive to tournament play.
-Jackmc
Didn't think of it that way but I hope you're correct re: Asmodee and FFG seeing some of the over-competitive twits ranting on their boards and wanting the overall community to grow in a more inclusive manner. I might actually take time from my family to go game if that were the case.
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Armada Wave IV announced: Imperial Interdictor and Rebel Liberty Class cruiser.
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Armada Wave IV announced: Imperial Interdictor and Rebel Liberty Class cruiser.
Interdictor? Liberty? SOOOOURCE!
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Interdictor? Liberty? SOOOOURCE!
Their webpage: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/5/20/swm-its-a-trap/
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Nice little update. Glad they are still releasing ships just very slowly.
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So unmodified Interdictor is a simple heavy cruiser like Victory. My Vindicator Heavy Cruiser is here, yay!
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Aww yeah...
I'm calling dibs right now on being able to name an Interdictor the Danger Zone.
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Aww yeah...
I'm calling dibs right now on being able to name an Interdictor the Danger Zone.
The upgrade has two ability cards; one is the classic gravity generator and the other...exhaust your target's movement by 1 square ;D We have supporters in the wave 3, now we have a controller in wave 4 for Imperials while Rebel/Alliance get a vanguard assault ship (I'm so drooling over Liberty's aspect as a spear point!).
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It's "exhaust this card to temporarily reduce the ship's speed by one", and it only lasts until they finish moving. It's good, and can throw one hell of a wrench into a maneuvering plan, but it's definitely not a lasting effect.
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I see it being used with a couple ISDs or VSDs mounting tractor beams to slow something to a stop(or a crawl) so they can pound it. Alternatively, park a mess of fighters ahead of a ship, and slow it down so it can't get out of their engagement range very quickly.
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looks like they are using the larger version of the Interdictor from SW:rebels.
(http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/e/e3/Interdictor_Cruiser_Concept_Art.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20160312121100)
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looks like they are using the larger version of the Interdictor from SW:rebels.
Doesn't matter to me. They called Interdictor a cruiser and she get Quad Lasers among her cards (Vindicator Heavy Cruiser, base hull for Interdictor in EU, used quad lasers or was it quad turbolasers? :P).
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Aww yeah...
I'm calling dibs right now on being able to name an Interdictor the Danger Zone.
"Captain Archer to the bridge."
I'm surprised it took them this long to do the interdictor. This sucker can be the basis for a lot of scenario games.
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On FFG's website, X-Wing wave IX announced: ARC-170, TIE/SF, Protectorate Starfighter, and Shadow Caster expansions.
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ARC-170
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/f96f1e39fc8bca5fb0dcf2aa5d97d84f/tumblr_inline_nvez6bFaDo1tr68ji_500.gif)
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EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/f96f1e39fc8bca5fb0dcf2aa5d97d84f/tumblr_inline_nvez6bFaDo1tr68ji_500.gif)
I wonder if the ARC will make an appearance in Rebels or Rogue One per the in game fluff/ refit card.
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EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/f96f1e39fc8bca5fb0dcf2aa5d97d84f/tumblr_inline_nvez6bFaDo1tr68ji_500.gif)
Damn....you beat me to squeeing.
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I would just like to take a moment to point out that the TIE/sf has a Systems upgrade slot. That means, say, Quickdraw can take Opportunist or Push the Limit and also Electronic Baffle.
Execute maneuver, Push the Limit, take shield damage with Electronic Baffle to shed the stress, immediately take a shot at whoever is in front of you and haven't moved. Like Soontir. Or use Opportunist to take a stress and deliver a higher power shot, Baffle to clear it, and then immediately take another shot thanks to taking a shield damage.
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Happy to see I was right about Ketsu's ship just being too gorgeous not to make into a mini. Now I just wish they'd release a Rebel's booster pack that added things like Phoenix Squadron cards for the A-wing, an "Experimental" title card for the prototypical B-wing, a Commander Sato crew card for the CR-90 and a Lando card for the Gozanti (assuming that was a Gozanti I saw him with).
Oh, and Ghost/Phantom pilot cards for the rest of the crew so that any of them can fly either ship, plus cards for the rest of the Inquisitors
-Jackmc
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I liked some of those Arc-170 fighters.
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some one told me that they maybe or are doing the Millienum Falcon and Poe's X-wing in a pack together and that should be for the Rebel Vets. Apparently the reason is because of the movie?
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some one told me that they maybe or are doing the Millienum Falcon and Poe's X-wing in a pack together and that should be for the Rebel Vets. Apparently the reason is because of the movie?
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/5/4/these-are-your-first-steps/
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oh goody I can feel my wallet getting a bit lighter.
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There was a redo of the initial box set that came out just because of the movie also.
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There's no indication that Heroes of the Resistance is completely replacing a Rebel Veterans set. For all we know, we'll get both someday.
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There was a redo of the initial box set that came out just because of the movie also.
Not really, they were ready to go to version 1.5 (clean up some rules and make crit hits far more nasty) of the game anyway so it's v. 1.5 with ships that take advantage of the marketing opportunity by including the new ships.
-Jackmc
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You can choose to use either damage deck. Some rules got cleaned up, but most of it was to simply bring printed books in line with the FAQ.
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I was under the impression that the new deck is required for competitive play.
-Jackmc
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It was, initially. That decision was reversed less than a month after the new set's release.
Most people use the new deck.
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Imperial Veterans is finally listed as shipping!
Next time I bundle a preorder into a massive purchase, smack me, please. :-[
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Imperial Veterans is finally listed as shipping!
Next time I bundle a preorder into a massive purchase, smack me, please. :-[
That is awesome news.
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So I have a weird moral dilemma with Imperial Veterans.
I preordered it from my FLGS, then I found out that the store owner dislikes me and that he was trying to convince his best friend to hit on my fiance. Oh, and this best friend hates me personally because I beat him at any game we play and he's the kind of drekhead who's only happy when he's WINNING a game, not just playing it.
All kinds of negative emotions streaming my way from this small group of people, but I DID promise to buy it from him, and a man is only as good as his word. So... should I bother fulfilling my preorder promise or tell him where to shove it and buy online? I'm equally conflicted between both choices.
I kinda stopped trying to play X-Wing there, and especially the Heroes of the Aturi Cluster co-op game, when I found out. I didn't particularly like this best friend either because of his drekheaded win-lust, but I was willing to overlook it as long as he did the same.
Oh, and I also found this: Star Wars TIE Fighter (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN_CP4SuoTU), and it's the most epic 7 minutes that you'll spend today. If you didn't see it in the anime thread.
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All kinds of negative emotions streaming my way from this small group of people, but I DID promise to buy it from him, and a man is only as good as his word. So... should I bother fulfilling my preorder promise or tell him where to shove it and buy online? I'm equally conflicted between both choices.
Well if you honor your end of the preorder you have the satisfaction of of knowing you took the high ground and didn't compromise your own values. That said, I don't think anyone would think less of you if you blew it off. Well maybe the store owner, but I really wouldn't worry about what he thinks at this point.
Either way I'd be done giving that place my business if I was in your shoes.
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X-wing Players, you Imperial Veterans arrive next week:
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/6/24/hone-your-veteran-instincts/
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For the curious, FFG is holding a Armada Fleet Building contest to include Waves 3 and 4.
Previews for the Interdictor and the Liberty are both up on their website.
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Aw, yeah... 8)
It's me, Zug again, baby,
That's right, I'm back!
Last time I quested for starships
I got a little off track.
But now my confidence is at an all-time high,
'Cause FFG just anointed me the ImpVet of Rhyme!
"I said that ImpVet's on time!"
That's right, the ImpVet of Rhyme!
I don't need no green dice,
I'm gonna be just fine.
"Hey, listen-" Shh.
I got my beats and jams.
I'm taking rebels down now,
No thanks to Vader, man.
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Just out of curiosity, what do you have planned with that Axis & Allies: Minis rocket launcher?
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AAM, actually. I love that game, still play it every once in a while, and try to add a figure or two into every big order I place with Miniature Market or Noble Knight or whatnot. Might also use it as a towed Arrow IV battery on occasion.
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The Force Awakens core set is at Target for 50% off.
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I'll play TFA-era stuff when the Empire is a playable faction, or when the First Order has something more interesting than a few models of updated TIE/lns to fly.
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You can fly First Order and Empire ships alongside each other with no issues. Sub-factions, not separate factions.
Unless I'm missing another objection in there.
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Personal taste, not rules. When I play Empire, I play Imperial Navy, not Navy plus fanatical splinter groups. For similar reasons, I have no plans to buy a Slave 1, for X-Wing or Armada. We don't need their scum.
I don't hold it against people who choose to do so, I just won't do it myself.
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Personal taste, not rules. When I play Empire, I play Imperial Navy, not Navy plus fanatical splinter groups. For similar reasons, I have no plans to buy a Slave 1, for X-Wing or Armada. We don't need their scum.
I don't hold it against people who choose to do so, I just won't do it myself.
See, this I can appreciate. The FFG forums are full of YT-2400s and Firesprays as default squadron options over and above the more classic choices.
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I might actually pick up a Rogues and Villains pack someday because it does make sense for the Rebels to field such stuff, but the first thing I'll likely do in that event will be to trade off the Imp half in favor of more Bombers and Interceptors.
My hope is that someday we'll get another squadron box, but this one will contain Decimators and Lambdas, as well as other fighter types.
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I might actually pick up a Rogues and Villains pack someday because it does make sense for the Rebels to field such stuff, but the first thing I'll likely do in that event will be to trade off the Imp half in favor of more Bombers and Interceptors.
My hope is that someday we'll get another squadron box, but this one will contain Decimators and Lambdas, as well as other fighter types.
I'm agreeable to additional ships but I'd like them to stop around the E-Wing/TIE Defender limit rather than some of the newer stuff seen in X-Wing. On the flip side, I would like more unique squadrons and the ability to mix squadrons. Not sure how they'd do the latter but I'd like to see Darth Vader leading a couple of TIEs or Lando leading an A-Wing and a Y-Wing. I think it would have to be based around a unique pilot and more expensive to boot but offer a more cinematic feel to the game.
I don't know if anyone else followed the threads on FFG's board with the preview of Liberty and the Fleet submission contest but I actually learned quite a bit about the game. Hopefully, there is another play through video posted that I could watch before I go back to work on Monday.
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I learned a bit as well, sadly only after I submitted my list. Didn't really expect it to win anything other than the random drawing, so no big loss.
As anyone here knows, I'm definitely more of a capital ship kind of guy, as opposed to liking swarms of strike fighters. As such, most of my fleets focus on the big ships, with just enough fighters to hopefully keep enemy strike birds off my back. Only recently did I think about it and realize that putting jammers on a Gozanti would be perfect for this role, helping my limited screen tie up opposing fighters for even longer, instead of the slicer tools I put in my submitted fleet. :-[
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Played a squadron last night which included a TIE-Dx7 with Countess Ryad (Engine Upgrade and Predator). Sweet Mother of Pearl that is a mean ship. Slippery as could be with the free evade token and being able to option K-turns on ALL straight moves.
I think I have a new crush. :))
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Try running her with TIE Mk2 engines. ALL the green maneuvers!
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Boost was really handy for dodging firing arcs and sliding into short range.
She is delightful.
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Only problem I can see is if you run against an ace squadron - she's only PS5. :(
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Only problem I can see is if you run against an ace squadron - she's only PS5. :(
Indeed, and that was brought up last night.
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Played a squadron last night which included a TIE-Dx7 with Countess Ryad (Engine Upgrade and Predator). Sweet Mother of Pearl that is a mean ship. Slippery as could be with the free evade token and being able to option K-turns on ALL straight moves.
I think I have a new crush. :))
Ryad is pretty good, but she has relatively few builds that don't have some pretty massive weaknesses. Low PS is the universal one, but if you go with Engine Upgrade your greens are really limited and your action economy is still low. If you go with Push the Limit your effective greens are limited to 3, 4, and 5 straight (and three banks if you take TIE Mk. II) but your action economy is pretty good. She's just so... predictable. Once she engages, she's going to be on the same general straight line track for most of the game.
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I learned a bit as well, sadly only after I submitted my list. Didn't really expect it to win anything other than the random drawing, so no big loss.
As anyone here knows, I'm definitely more of a capital ship kind of guy, as opposed to liking swarms of strike fighters. As such, most of my fleets focus on the big ships, with just enough fighters to hopefully keep enemy strike birds off my back. Only recently did I think about it and realize that putting jammers on a Gozanti would be perfect for this role, helping my limited screen tie up opposing fighters for even longer, instead of the slicer tools I put in my submitted fleet. :-[
eh, depending on what criteria they use for selecting winners, you might still have a chance. often contests run by the companies that put out a game aren't looking for the most 'optimized' build so much as the most 'fun to play' builds. and if it showcases exotic units or rules sometimes those get priority over the "power" builds.
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Maybe. I still think using jammers would have given me better odds. Before I tuned out the discussion threads because they got to hyper-optimizing and inscrutable acronyms, there were lamentations that jammers would be to hard to use, because of the difficulty of protecting your fighters without ruining their shots on their targets. A fleet that bucked that by not caring if the friendlies were also jammed might have stood out.
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Two articles today on FFG; Waves III and IV will be available at Gen Con and in retail around late August. Also announced is the first campaign, The Corellian Conflict
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/7/22/the-corellian-conflict/
New squadron disks and cards plus new objectives.
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campaign expansion..... I want.
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campaign expansion..... I want.
Right there with you. At supposedly $30, I really like it.
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That looks impressive. Although, I'm probably going to look at Star Wars: Rebellion, first.
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That does look like a nice expansion for Armada!
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they should do something of the kind for X-wing.
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They kinda already do with the big ships.
But, I agree. Something like that would be awesome for X-Wing. In fact, I don't see how this couldn't be finagled into doing X-Wing battles.
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X-Wing wave X and Armada wave V articles are up at FFG's website. Armada is getting new two new small ships and two squadron packs. X-Wing has each faction getting a new ship. Links below:
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/8/5/criminals-and-commanders/
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/8/5/ill-show-you-the-dark-side/
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Star Wars Rebels ships and "Legends" star fighters... .whewwwww! I need room for them!
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Waves III and IV, so close, Wave V not all that far off. Happy man right now.
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Looking really forward to Wave 5
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Has anyone tried the Rebellion board game, yet?
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So if I were going to buy the Armada box, what ships should I get, both Alliance and Imperial, to have a relatively balanced force on both sides - enough to have whatever passes for a realistic but small game?
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I have been wondering; are they going to do Clones Wars ships? They did bring in the Star Wars Rebels ships for the Armada after all. *Eyes Venator*
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Unknown. From what I hear, they've been trying very hard to stay away from pre-Empire stuff, though as the ARC-170 coming to X-Wing and the Arquitens coming to Armada show, they do seem perfectly willing to use things that can be justified in the service of a modern faction. Gives me great hope that we'll see Imperial Venators someday, and maybe some Separatist stuff in Alliance service.
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I couldn't tell you about anything more than the core box and the two fighter expansions for Armada. The Fighter Expansions are good and give you different unique squadrons to work with the ones which come in the box.
The box itself is already pretty well balanced. It comes with the three craft you can see, as well as 4 x-wing squadrons and 6 tie squadrons, along with a unique squadron card for use by each side.
You could probably 'double up' on the existing ship designs if you're unsure. I expect they come with additional options for ships of that class as well, though I'm not dead certain. I plan on filling out the collection, even if just to see what different cards come with the ships, and see how they perform. I know my ultimate goal is to get that ImpStar Destroyer at some point. :D
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Get one each MC-30 and Gladiator, because the Nebulon is not good and a single Victory has trouble unsupported.
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Your guys' thoughts mesh up pretty well with what I was thinking, starting with the core boxes and one each of the fighters; I was actually thinking an Imperial Raider or two, try to balance out the more lumbering ships with some faster escorts - plus I actually do like the model.
So you're saying I should go for another small Rebel frigate in the MC30 instead of a larger ship like Home One or Liberty? The MC30 does fit really well in the idea of the Rebels having lots of smaller ships...
What about the "Rogues and Villains" expansion? It's fairly cheap and seems to add a lot of variety to both sides.
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Most on FFG's Armada forum denizens would tell you that you need multiple copies of R&V. I would get at least one.
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And then trade all the non-Rebel ones for more TIEs, because We Don't Need Their Scum. :)
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Ran this last night:
http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/557005/brath-and-mini-swarm# (http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/557005/brath-and-mini-swarm#)
Absolutely destroyed 2 Y-Wings (I know they had R-2 Astromechs, plasma torpedoes and TLT's) and the Shara Bey ARC-170 (with Alliance overhaul, tail gunner, weapons engineer, R2-D2 and seismic torpedo).
Swarm jousted and slowed down the Y's. Defender flanked and tore the first Y to pieces. Ion cannon then primary attack at short range with Outmaneuver was devastating. Stuck on tail and flanks of the ARC and did the same. TIES finished off the remaining Y-WIng.
I thought the Countess with the TIE Defender x7 was mean, but this guy was another level of impressive.
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As a heads up, Outmaneuver does not work if you're inside the ARC's auxiliary firing arc. It still counts as a firing arc for the purposes of Outmaneuver and Autothrusters.
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As a heads up, Outmaneuver does not work if you're inside the ARC's auxiliary firing arc. It still counts as a firing arc for the purposes of Outmaneuver and Autothrusters.
Yep, and that's why I worked the flanks of the ARC.
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Would have been more interesting if the Y-wings had mounted Ion cannons. Since the TIE/d can't do evasion it would have been significantly more vulnerable. Can't really see the point of mounting TLTs if you're carrying plasma torps - a close defense weapon ought to be more useful.
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Would have been more interesting if the Y-wings had mounted Ion cannons. Since the TIE/d can't do evasion it would have been significantly more vulnerable. Can't really see the point of mounting TLTs if you're carrying plasma torps - a close defense weapon ought to be more useful.
I can't speak to his strategy. All I know is that TIE Dx7 with the ion cannon was cruel.
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I can't speak to his strategy. All I know is that TIE Dx7 with the ion cannon was cruel.
Well... for 47 points it had better be! :D
But I think a lot of the cruelty might have been from plain bad strategy. I mean, a couple of weeks ago I played two games against Palpace lists with Soontir Fel. In the first one he was killed by a pair of Z-95s, in the second he killed my entire squad without taking a hit... Cruel or not?
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Well... for 47 points it had better be! :D
But I think a lot of the cruelty might have been from plain bad strategy.
Indeed, it sure didn't help that all his ships had a one die agility.
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ARCs with Tail Gunner and Outmaneuver are going to be interesting.
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Last Sunday, after me and a friend played a couple of games, I had a thought (strange, I know).
The current rock-scissor-paper setup of X-wing really leaves a bit to be desired. My friend ran a list of 3 TIE Interceptor aces (PS10, 9, 7). I first ran a group of X-wing aces (PS10) and slaughtered him pretty handily. The I ran a squadron of two ARC-170s and a HWK-290 (PS8, 7, 6) And got pretty much slaughtered in return.
That is, those fights were pretty much decided before we even started, which isn't really all that interesting. So my thought was, what if you add a scenario rule that the average PS of your ships has to less than, say, 6?
Now this still leaves room for a couple of arc-dodging ImpAces, but rather than a list of just aces you need to drop one of them for a couple of academy pilots or something. This makes mixed lists a lot more interesting - You could for example take a pair of X-wings to take the academy pilots and a pair of Y-wings to threaten the Interceptors, a list that would generally just be killed against most anything.
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This is where a campaign league would be kinda neat.
You have a full squadron list (12 fighters) from which you build a force for whatever force size engagement. You can even impose limitations on ratios, as you've suggested above.
As you take losses, the replacements should only be Rookies and Academy grads, or the fighter type equivalent. As long as pilots engage and survive, they can move up in 'rank' or be upgraded to a higher skilled pilot. (Academy Grad to Obsidian Squadron Pilot to Black Squadron Pilot.) You can even have on take on a 'mantle' if they manage to live long enough - choose a unique pilot of the next skill up, assuming you don't have one already, and he becomes that type of pilot. Of course, if he dies, he's gone.
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A campaign would of course be neat, but it carries problems of its own. Notably, if one player gets lucky and have a couple of pilots "level up" early he can get a massive advantage. Potentially even worse than standard 100-point squad builds as he'd know how good the enemy pilots can be and can tailor his force to that.
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A campaign would of course be neat, but it carries problems of its own. Notably, if one player gets lucky and have a couple of pilots "level up" early he can get a massive advantage. Potentially even worse than standard 100-point squad builds as he'd know how good the enemy pilots can be and can tailor his force to that.
There are solutions for that. In Blood Bowl, when one team has a higher rating than another, the underdog gets rolls on the dirty tricks table - everything from spiking the better team's gatorade with laxative to a Star Player with a grudge against the other team joining for free.
How would it work in Star Wars? I don't know. But as they're putting out a campaign system for Star Wars Armada and NOT X-Wing, I don't think they have any interest in it... officially.
Unofficially, Heroes of the Aturi Cluster (http://dockingbay416.com/campaign/) is a solid campaign system for cooperative players - everyone's on the side of the Rebellion, and the movements of the enemy ships are determined by an AI card. It's... actually very good. A lot of fun.
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Mordheim had a system where if two unevenly matched warbands went against each other, they'd get either a penalty or bonus to xp earned depending on whether they were the higher or lower rated team. I've always like that idea and I'm surprised I haven't seen anything similar since.
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There are solutions for that. In Blood Bowl, when one team has a higher rating than another, the underdog gets rolls on the dirty tricks table - everything from spiking the better team's gatorade with laxative to a Star Player with a grudge against the other team joining for free.
How would it work in Star Wars? I don't know. But as they're putting out a campaign system for Star Wars Armada and NOT X-Wing, I don't think they have any interest in it... officially.
That doesn't really help with my original point, unfortunately. Specifically, arc-dodgers are so completely dependent upon having higher PS than their opponents (which of course leads to the inverse, namely that their opponents needs to have higher PS). If you have a campaign system the first player that runs arc-dodgers and gets a few more experienced pilots than the others is a winner - and it's pretty much hopeless to try to balance that out in any way.
And it's not just arc-dodgers that are dependent on high PS. Why don't we see more bombs used? Well, to use bombs effectively you need higher PS than the opponent. But very few bomb-carriers have good PS, and you must have high PS to beat arc-dodgers... #P
Turret ships originally pulled things downwards a bit, but with autothrusters and new EPTs few turret ships can fight arc-dodgers. Unless they're arc-dodgers themselves which most of the latest turret ships seems to be...).
Sorry, got into a bit of a rant there. My point is that by forcing a high/low PS mix on forces the average PS pilots gets a lot more useful, hopefully leading to a lot more mixed forces (instead of all impaces you need to take a few academy pilots - but maybe it more useful to get a low-initiative jouster/turret?).
Unofficially, Heroes of the Aturi Cluster (http://dockingbay416.com/campaign/) is a solid campaign system for cooperative players - everyone's on the side of the Rebellion, and the movements of the enemy ships are determined by an AI card. It's... actually very good. A lot of fun.
I've been meaning to try that out. Just need to find the time... :(
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Well, the thing I've noticed about having a fixed list to draw from for replacements, even your high PS Aces will eventually get unlucky and bite the bullet. Sure, you may get a few wins with them, but when they're gone, what do you have to replace them with?
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So I finally got ahold of an ARC-170 this last weekend. Problem is, at this point I'm reaching information overload with regards to ships and upgrades, so I'm drawing a complete blank as to where this might be really useful. Any thoughts?
(Also, I'm usually an Imp player, so I'm also not that familiar with rebel ships it might pair well with.)
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I get most of my inspiration for new ship load outs from the preview articles and then go from there.
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Norra Wexley is really good at pumping out unholy, pants-shitting levels of red dice, and can also be built as an unholy defensive monstrosity. Consider the following:
Norra Wexley
Finn
Opportunist
Alliance Overhaul
Shara Bey
Jan Ors
When Norra fires, she gets: 3 dice primary (forward arc) + 1 (Opportunist) + 1 (Jan's ability) + 1 blank (Finn) + 1 focus (Norra's ability, fueled by Shara's target lock). If you have a TL and took a focus, then you have full modifications on seven dice (eight at range 1, six at range 2-3 in the auxiliary arc, seven at range 1 in the aux arc). It is literally the most red dice it is possible to throw in the game.
Alternately, consider:
Norra Wexley
Push the Limit
C-3PO
R2-D2
Shara Bey
Weapons Engineer
When defending, Norra can generate two guaranteed evades with almost contemptuous ease (roll dice, guess zero with 3PO; add a focus with with a TL, spend the focus for a second) plus R2-D2's regen ability for an effective three evades every turn, minimum, and the ability to regenerate if left alone.
Or you can build for stupidly absurd action economy!
Norra Wexley
Push the Limit
BB-8
Kyle Katarn
Engine Upgrade
Reveal a green maneuver, barrel roll, push the limit to either boost or target lock, perform the green maneuver you revealed, clear the stress and get a focus from Kyle, and then either focus, boost, or target lock (whatever you didn't do earlier). Thanks to Kyle you can: Barrel roll, boost, then maneuver, get a free focus, and then finally target lock (for her ability).
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I don't have near all those cards, but I'll definitely take those ideas as starting points, and see what I can build from there! O0
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Finn is from Heroes of the Resistance and is a bit out of reach at the moment.
Opportunist is in the TIE Defender
Alliance Overhaul comes with the ARC
Jan Ors is a HWK-290 pilot
If you don't have Push the Limit I have serious doubts about the fact that you actually play this game.
C-3PO is in the Tantive IV (or get the 'welfare 3PO' from somebody who got one as a tournament reward)
R2-D2 is obviously in the original core set
Weapons Engineer is in the Falcon
BB-8 is in the TFA core
Kyle Katarn is in Rebel Aces. If you ever want to fly a Rebel TIE Interceptor, that's the pack you'll also want (Jake Farrel)
Engine Upgrade is in the Slave I and Falcon
All in all the ARC's really powerful combos are all pretty easily acquired. It's an anomaly in that respect.
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(Also, I'm usually an Imp player, so I'm also not that familiar with rebel ships it might pair well with.)
The loadout I've seen that worked used Thane, Alliance Overhaul, Nien Numb (great for sprinting), your favorite flavor of torpedo, vectored thrusters and R5-P9.
Biggs with a shield upgrade & R2-D2, Horton Slam with some sort of turret and torpedoes rounded out the unit.
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If you have Integrated Astromech on Biggs it does basically the same thing for a lot less points. It costs R2-D2 to use, yes, but the number of times where Biggs can actually escape and regenerate back up from 1 hull point is generally lower than the amount of good another four points will do you. For example: Give Horton a TLT, the R2-D6, and Marksmanship and he will basically never miss.
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Finn is from Heroes of the Resistance and is a bit out of reach at the moment.
...
Jan Ors is a HWK-290 pilot
...
C-3PO is in the Tantive IV (or get the 'welfare 3PO' from somebody who got one as a tournament reward)
...
BB-8 is in the TFA core
...
These are the ones I lack. Also, just the one ARC, so Norra and Shara at the same time are also out...for now.
The loadout I've seen that worked used Thane, Alliance Overhaul, Nien Numb (great for sprinting), your favorite flavor of torpedo, vectored thrusters and R5-P9.
Okay, that looks fun! I don't have R5-P9, but it looks like if I use R7-T1 instead, I might have a good wingman for a SLAM-happy K-Wing. :)
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Okay, that looks fun! I don't have R5-P9, but it looks like if I use R7-T1 instead, I might have a good wingman for a SLAM-happy K-Wing. :)
Nice.
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Something I was toying with last night was:
Norra Wexley
Push the Limit
Tail Gunner
R7-T1
Vectored Thrusters
Alliance Overhaul
With the goal being to end up in front of somebody, use R7-T1 to target lock and then boost out, and barrel roll back with Push the Limit in order to set up the Tail Gunner shot with a TL for her ability. Since the title lets you change a focus to a crit out the back, you don't even need to focus for it.
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That definitely looks fun. :)
Here's what I have in mind for an ARC/K team:
Thane (ARC-170)
Adv ProTorps
R7-T1
Alliance Overhaul
Warden (K-Wing)
Extra Munitions
Flechette Torpedoes
Conner Net
Adv SLAM
Luke (X-Wing)
Expert Handling
R5-K6
Not really sure about Luke, but I figure I need at least one high-skill dogfighter to balance out the two brutes.
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Dutch Vander
R5-K6 (Luke actually doesn't need this at all; He'd probably get more use out of Vectored Thrusters and Push the Limit for a point more)
Plasma Torpedoes
Guidance Chips
Esege Tukettu
Recon Specialist
Homing Missiles
Guidance Chips
Shara Bey
Deadeye
Weapon Engineer
Plasma Torpedoes
Guidance Chips
Hold on to your butts, because this one gets complicated. Esege moves and takes a focus (and gets two). Shara moves and takes a focus. Dutch moves and takes a target lock, and by doing so also gives Shara two of them.
In combat: Dutch fires his torpedo, spending his target lock to do so. He uses R5-K6 to reacquire. If he gets it, he hands the target lock to Esege. Then, on the attack itself, he can spend Shara's target lock to modify his dice (if he even needs to), plus Esege's focus. Esege attacks next if Shara got a TL back, and fires his Homing Missile (which does not spend the TL). He can spend Shara's TL to reroll, and his own focus (if he needs to). Then, finally, Shara spends her focus to make her torpedo attack, and spends any focus Esege might have left to modify. If she got a target lock back at any point during the turn, she can also spend that to reroll.
At the end of the combat phase, it's possible to still have: a target lock with Dutch, a target lock with Esege, and a single target lock with Shara. If the target hasn't been vaporized by a dozen red dice.
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Okay, that's...mean. O0 And I've known it already, but I REALLY need a Y-Wing...
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That definitely looks fun. :)
Here's what I have in mind for an ARC/K team:
Thane (ARC-170)
Adv ProTorps
R7-T1
Alliance Overhaul
Warden (K-Wing)
Extra Munitions
Flechette Torpedoes
Conner Net
Adv SLAM
Luke (X-Wing)
Expert Handling
R5-K6
Not really sure about Luke, but I figure I need at least one high-skill dogfighter to balance out the two brutes.
Looks fun!
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Given that the Mining Guild TIE fighters have made another appearance in Star Wars Rebels, i wonder if they'll show up as a Scum option in an upcoming product Wave.
(http://i.imgur.com/AL2Jt2X.png)
(http://img.lum.dolimg.com/v1/images/reb_ca_1281_154f0b9e.jpeg?region=0%2C0%2C1280%2C764)
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Corellian Campaign article went up a couple of days ago: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/10/12/playing-the-long-game/
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Corellian Campaign squadron article is up: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/10/25/swm-draw-their-fire/
Ships and squadrons that kill something get Veteran status meaning ships can pull a desired token and squadrons get a re-roll. Also Biggs and some other unique squadrons are previewed.
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Rebellion! The board game. I picked it up, and with an initial readthrough of the rules, it looks simple enough, but has the potential for decent depth.
All I can say is that a lot is 'commander driven'.
But, what excited me the most were the minis that came with it.
As you can see, the Empire has a lot of pieces to work with. Galactic conquest is one of their means of winning. whereas, the rebels have only a moderate amount of pieces. Their goal is to win via influence, so conquest isn't really in their best interest, because they don't have the resources to pull it off.
Scale-wise, there are some interesting options, which I'll touch on later, like this next weekend.
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My quest for a common scale continues with the successful acquisition of the Rebel Blockade runner.
At 40.5 cm long, it is slightly longer than the X-Wing CR-90 (33.3cm).
Calculating the scale for 1/270 stated in the X-Wing rulebook, it only comes to about 109.35m.
However, comparing it to the other ship, there's something I noticed. The X-wing CR-90 is more proportional to all art depicting the corvette, and I notice that some of the elements on the bigger blockade runner are almost identical in size.
So, I took a moment to do a comparison shot where the key important features of the CR-90 and the Corvette match as close as I could eyeball it. In this case, the bridge module was the most important feature for me. I could justify a shortened hull and compact engine compartment for an 'escort variant' of the CR-90, which wouldn't need all the room that's required for a senator's personal transport, which needs room for body guard retinue, service staff, etc.
I'm thinking that if I really, really wanted to, I could do some mods to the Blockade runner to get a little extra length out of her, like elongating the engines in the engine block. But, in my mind, the CR-90 is already a highly modular ship, and I can see a militarized escort vessel with a more compact, advanced engine, and less room since it doesn't require the extensive crew space of a more functionary craft.
So, I can live with it. Now, to come up with an appropriate base that can eventually match that of the X-Wing's CR-90. I think I know where to start.
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Rebellion! The board game. I picked it up...
But, what excited me the most were the minis that came with it.
Scale-wise, there are some interesting options, which I'll touch on later, like this next weekend.
So, I finally found my list of measurements. I'll have to do some counts later when I have time, but if anyone is interested:
Troops
- Both the Rebel Soldier (18-20mm) and Storm Trooper (20-22mm) are nominally 1/100 scale. (I'm nebulous about this because they're in active stances.)
Ground Vehicles
- Snow Speeder (18mm): IU is 4.5m long = 1/250 (I have issues with this considering how cramped it looks next to my 6 and 8 mm infantry. It may be closer to 6m)
- AT-ST (24mm): IU is 8.6 m tall = 1/358 (works best with Battleforce sized Mech minis. Or the Tantive IV)
- AT-AT (31mm): IU is 22.5 m tall = 1/750 (works with my map scale mechs.)
Fighters (Noticeably bigger than the ones from Armada, but not by much.)
- X-Wing (18mm): IU is 12.5 m long = 1/695
- Y-Wing (22mm): IU is 23.4 m long = 1/1063 (I find the 23.4m figure hard to believe. That would make it nearly 2x the length of the X-Wing. I'm more inclined to the 18-20m length which I can derive from the X-Wing Minis Y-Wing at their stated 1/270.)
- Tie/Ln (ball=5-6mm): 2-3m diameter = which would range from 1/400 to 1/600. (Most visual cues suggest a 2m ball, but the X-Wing mini at 1/270 would be closer to 3m tall.)
(wing=10mm): IU is 9 m long = 1/899
Ships
- Imperial Assault Carrier (32mm): IU is 63.8 m long = 1/1994
- Rebel Transport (40mm): IU is 90 m long = 1/2250
- Corellian Corvette (38mm): IU is 130 to 150m long = 1/3421 or 1/3947
- Mon Calamari Cruiser (67mm): IU is 1200m to 1400m long = 1/17,910 or 1/20,895 (1200m is considered standard sized)
- Star Destroyer (57mm): IU is 1600m long = 1/28,070
- Super Star Destroyer (100mm): IU is is 19 km long = 1/190,000
- Death Star (38mm): IU is 120 km diameter = 1/3,157,894
The Rebel Shield Generator and Ion Cannon don't have a specified size. So, have fun with those.
I'll post some of the comparative pics later this week when I have an opportunity.
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As for counts, I can give you some right off the top of my head.
Death Star: 3 (2 complete and 1 under construction)
Super Star Destroyer: 2
AT-AT: 4
Ion Cannon: 2
Shield Generator: 2
Corellian Corvette: 4
X-Wing Fighter: 6
I'll come back and update this list after I've had a chance to go through them again.
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Arquitens + Cpt Needa + Turbolaser Reroute Circuits = Fairly cheap sniper, or am I missing something?
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or am I missing something?
Yes, a megamek version of the SW: Armada.
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so Xwing news.. Scum "medium" Epic ship, the C-ROC transport.
they finally did a Scum epic, and they bundled a few more fixes for the M3-A Scyk Interceptor, including an updated heavy Scyk card, and a bunch of "light" scyk cards (which make it maneuverable on the movement Dial at the expense of being more fragile.
honestly i'm curious as to what the "big" Scum Epic will be. Action-VI transport?
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I find the base cost of 35 points to be the most interesting aspect of it so far.
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Thank you for those sizes on the Rebelion ships.
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Wave 6 Announcement: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/3/14/swm-up-close-and-personal/
Imps get: the Imperial Light Carrier (Quasar Fire-class cruiser-carrier)
Rebels get: the Hammerhead Corvette...or rather two of them per box.
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That light carrier design has really had a convoluted history... ::)
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Just 2 ships? Hopefully there will be more comming out soon.
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That seems to be the pattern for a lot of Armada waves, I wouldn't read too much into it. We'll certainly get another pair of ships in the next wave, and another pair after that, and another...
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Wait wait, the Quasar is Imperial exclusive in the expansion?
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So far. I've heard nothing saying that the Rebels won't ever get their own, like they did the TIE Fighter.
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Thought the Quasar Fire-class cruiser-carrier was a other goverments that joined the Rebels. I never thought it was a Imperial Ship.
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Remember to ignore everything from the old EU. From what I understand, the only such vessel in Rebel service we've seen in current canon is a single one they stole from the Empire.
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Wave 11 is up also:
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/3/15/independent-operations/ (https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/3/15/independent-operations/)
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some interesting stuff for Xwing..
a dual Scum/Rebel ship.
a dual missile with turret TIE for imperial.
a Rebel ship with dual crew and a reinforce action.
the TIE Aggressor also has an unlimited use dual missile slot weapons option, "unguided rockets". 3 red, attack (focus). and will have a Twin Laser Turret in the pack. i'm curious as to what the new turret it has is.
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Remember to ignore everything from the old EU. From what I understand, the only such vessel in Rebel service we've seen in current canon is a single one they stole from the Empire.
Forgot about that.
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some interesting stuff for Xwing..
a dual Scum/Rebel ship.
a dual missile with turret TIE for imperial.
a Rebel ship with dual crew and a reinforce action.
the TIE Aggressor also has an unlimited use dual missile slot weapons option, "unguided rockets". 3 red, attack (focus). and will have a Twin Laser Turret in the pack. i'm curious as to what the new turret it has is.
And you don't discard the rocket card. Unlimited munitions. Use that with Tomax Bren packing Crack Shot.
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Needing a focus makes it vulnerable to Hotshot Co-pilot at high PS, but that's definitely a good card. Also means it can't be used after a red maneuver without some manner of generating additional focus. At 2 points I think it is a good card, but since it can only be mounted on TIE Bombers, TIE Punishers, K-Wings, and the TIE Aggressor, the usefulness is limited.
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Not even the K-wing, it only has one missile slot... :(
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I find it intriguing. Probably look into putting it on a Punisher to give it cheap sustained firepower after the guided stuff has been expended. Yes, even with Extra Munitions practically being a default on my Punisher, I still run the thing dry from time to time. :) Probably Deathrain, since Redline's status as the TarLoc-Ness Monster doesn't really mesh well with something that relies on focus.
TIE Bomber Deathfire could also be fun. Since he gets to bomb for free, that leaves his action open for getting the needed focus. Good thing these rockets don't actually require you to spend that focus, which means you retain it for dice modifying.
...come to think of it, Redline with Fire Control System gets most of those locks for free, so it's still perfectly feasible to put these rockets on him, for those turns when your chosen target has gotten out of your arc but something else presents itself. I must ponder...
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TIE Reaper for my Tuesday Night Campaign Group:
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Not enough black XD
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TIE Reaper for my Tuesday Night Campaign Group:
What's the stats you're using?
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What's the stats you're using?
I'm thinking 2/2/6/1, Crew, System.
Dial is going to be swift (using the U-Wing dial right now), it's more as an objective piece than a regular table top feature. For the scenario, stop it from landing and dropping troops will be a key objective.
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Well, you could always use Escort the Senator's Shuttle mission rules: unarmed, has 2 Agility 6 Hull 6 Shields, can take any 2 movement at PS0, has to leave the board off the enemy deployment zone. Friendly models at R1 can perform an Escort Action (gives it 1 Evade Token).
It does work out surprisingly well as an alternate mission for the main game.
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I started playing X-Wing. This is terrible. For my wallet, i mean.
It doesn't help i can't really focus on one faction...
Sigh.
Started with TFA Core Set, and got a T-70 X-wing, a TIE/fo, a TIE Advanced v1 and a K-Wing. Will get a TIE/sf (FLGS didn't have them at the store due to a mistake) but then what? Maybe the old Core Set and an extra T-65 X-wing but other than, not sure. I like just about all the ships in the game...
Not a competitive player, just casual.
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I started playing X-Wing. This is terrible. For my wallet, i mean.
That's good!
You've taken your first step into a larger world.
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i had the advantage of starting when my brother had a large collection already. let me grab the X-wing, HWK-290, A-wing, and E-wing expansions first off. i picked up the Core II set on sale later, which helped. now i'd got a ton of Rebels (thanks in part to a very generous family at Xmas.. Ghost, Outrider, K-wing, and ARC-170 in Xmas2016, and i used some Xmas money to grab a T-70 expansion later).
i'd planned to get into Imperials but moving to missouri has put a stranglehold on my finances. (was planning to grab an Inquisitor and an Imperial Veterans set, which would give me a bunch of good options combined with the TIE/fo's from the Core II set.)
the TIE Aggressor looks very interesting honestly. (so does the Azituck for the rebels, but i'm spoiled for choices for them already)
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X-wing is a great game, so is Star Wars armada .
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I have the core set, Assault Frigate MK II expansion, Rebel Starfighter Expansion, and ordered the Home One expansion. I would like suggestions for further expansions to my Rebellion Fleet list to be a proper challenge to my friend's Imperial Fleet list. I'm very fond of Nebulon-Bs and B-Wings so I like to have my builds include them within reason.
My friend's list is:
Core Set,
2x Imperial Star Destroyer
2x Victory Star Destroyer
Interdictor Cruiser
3x Imperial Starfighter
1x Imperial Starfighter II
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Ooh. There's a Star Fighter II? What does it have?
And, anyone played Imperial Assault? I'm wondering if it would be a good stand-in for troop skirmishes, or if it's a little clunky? How easy is it for a Storm Trooper to die versus one of the Rebels, for example?
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Ooh. There's a Star Fighter II? What does it have?
Imperial Starfighter II: TIE Phantom, TIE Defender, Lambda Shuttle, and VT-49 Decimator
http://starwars-armada.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Fighter_Squadrons_II_Expansion_Pack
Rebel Starfighter II: E-Wing, Z-95 Headhunter, Lancer, and VCX-100 Freighter
http://starwars-armada.wikia.com/wiki/Rebel_Fighter_Squadrons_II_Expansion_Pack
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I really would have preferred the U-Wing to the Lancer. After the Wave 6 preview, someone of FFG boards thought the U-Wing having a one-off boarding capability like Boarding Troopers and/or Boarding Engineers. Maybe FFG goes that route for Armada.
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i suspect the set was in development before they were given permission to do the U-wing. as it is, their Rogue One tie in stuff (U-wing and TIE Striker) for X-wing only vaguely resemble the official info that has since come out.
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Imperial Starfighter II: TIE Phantom, TIE Defender, Lambda Shuttle, and VT-49 Decimator
http://starwars-armada.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Fighter_Squadrons_II_Expansion_Pack
Rebel Starfighter II: E-Wing, Z-95 Headhunter, Lancer, and VCX-100 Freighter
http://starwars-armada.wikia.com/wiki/Rebel_Fighter_Squadrons_II_Expansion_Pack
Sweet. Now, if I wanted to, I could recreate some of the Empire at War missions on table-top
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Sweet. Now, if I wanted to, I could recreate some of the Empire at War missions on table-top
Well if you have The Corellian Conflict - Campaign Expansion, you can figure out something on homebrewing a campaign/successive scenarios for Armada.
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Well since no one have made suggestions for what to add to my Rebel fleet list, I'm now asking for suggestions on filling out the Outer Rim Territory Imperial fleet.
Right now I have Core Set and Gladiator Star Destroyer so I have 6 TIE Fighter squadrons, VSD, and Gladiator Star Destroyer to start with. Looking at getting a couple of raiders and two or three Imperial Light Cruisers with the Imperial Carrier when it comes out.
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It's been a while since I last looked at my rulebook, and I've never actually played a game yet, so I don't remember what a basic game is supposed to be, point-wise. Anyone want to give me that figure? Anyone who wants to suggest something off the standard size point game, I leave it to you.
However, how big a fleet do you want to field? How thematic do you want your fleet to be? Because I could see coming up with a large 'Regional Fleet TO&E' from which you can pull whatever for any game.
Thematically, I think you should certainly get a second Victory, and then anchor your fleet with an Imperial Star Destroyer.
You'll want at least one or two more fighter squadron packs so that you can put in some specialist squadrons.
How canony do you want to get? Because you'll probably want to ignore most of the unique choices, unless you want to justify them as an analogue to that unique character.
Secondly, do you want to style your fleet off proper carrying capacity?
The VictStar Class carries 24 Tie Fighter Births. (I'm sure you could justify a squadron or two of Interceptors and/or Bombers)
The ImpStar 1 Class carries 48 Tie Fighter Births and 12 Tie Bomber births. (36 Ties and 12 Interceptors and 12 Bombers after Hoth)
The ImpStar II Class carries 72 births for Tie Series, divided as you see fit.
Having looked at both X-Wing and Armada, I've concluded that the three fighters on a stand actually represent three fighters. So, each squadron is whatever the small 3- or 4-man fighter groups and not the 12+ Fighter Squadrons like what Obsidian, Black, Sabre, or Rogue or Red Squadrons are supposed to be. If you feel otherwise, then that changes a few things.
I know that Armada has no 'carrier capacity' listed for its ships. It's not pertinent to the game, itself.
So, you're looking at one of two things:
Either the starter box VictStar is understaffed by 6 fighters (two squadrons in game parlance), or it's overstaffed by 4 squadrons.
I like the notion that it's under-staffed. Because then with a single purchase of an Imperial Fighter Squadrons Pack, you can fill in the empty slots as you see fit, because it comes with 2 squadrons of each of the early types. But, if you want to justify fielding the full pack, you may want to supplement with some additional carriers. And, I'm looking at the Assault Carrier expansion, which can carry on 'squadron' with each ship.
Going the other view, you're gonna want at least 2 more VictStars or 1 Impstar to handle the remaining Basic Tie Squadrons from the core game.
And, this actually leads me to a question. Among those of you who play, do you run some sort of League style or Campaign style match-up? Or is it pick-up games for most of you?
I've always wanted to style a League-style set-up where you have a large TO&E and you pick from that for your Operations Group for the game. Winners get points for requisitioning new ships and/or upgrades where losers get to restock losses. Unique losses cannot be replaced except by a ship or squadron living through enough games to gain enough experience.
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not an armada guy, but have friends who are.
for the rebels, i'd suggest maybe a Phoenix Home set (http://starwars-armada.wikia.com/wiki/Phoenix_Home_Expansion_Pack). it has a bunch of good cards to boost your other ships, and the Pelta is a handy medium warship on it's own. it serves as a command ship basically, and it's cards let it and your fleet pull some nasty tricks. (the rapid launch bays for example, let you carry fighter's internally, and deploy them mid battle.. imagine home one pulling an ackbar slash into the enemy formation and spitting B-wings right into the face of the enemy >:D ) the GR75 flotilla's are also supposed to be pretty useful too.
i'd also suggest grabbing one of the upcoming Hammerhead Corvette sets when they come out. you get two small ships, plus stuff to boost small ships in general, which combined with the CR90 corvette you already have should make for some good wolfpack tactics.
for the Imperials.. more fighters would probably help. even if only to block the fighter heavy rebels lists that are fairly popular right now. a couple Gozanti Flotilla's might help too, they can boost your fighters or ships abilities, though they are a bit fragile.
also, if your wanting thematic fleets regarding fighter carriage.. i'd advise treating each stand as 3 fighters rather than a full squadron of 12.. it makes the game look and play better, and helps avoid issues like "this accurate recreation of the battle of Scariff fleet has a dozen warships and 4 fighter stands for the rebels"
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Hm? So the fighter miniature stand isn't an abstract representation of a full squadron?
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It is assumed to be by many players, but we're never explicitly told that what Armada calls a squadron does in fact represent twelve fighters in-universe. The general pattern I've seen is to call each stand a squadron or flight(depending on taste), and not care exactly how many fighters it is.
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I know that some assumed the squadron value to be the hangar capacity on Armada ships, I don't accept that. Rather the squadron value to me represents the directing capability of the ship to coordinate small crafts in its airspace.
Venator, for example, to me would have a high squadron value due to the fact that it had a dedicated starfighter control bridge on the command tower alongside the ship's bridge.
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Personal taste matters too.
For example, the battle of scarif.
The rebels had;
3 Brahatok gunships (corvette)
3 Hammerhead corvettes
7 CR90 Corvette
3 Nebulon-B Frigates
10 GR75 transports
1 MC75 Cruiser
15 Ywings
22 Xwings
1 VCX100
Which means under one stand equals a squadron it could be translated as 1 large base ship, 3 medium base, 13 small base, 5 Flotillas, 1 stand Ywings, 2 stands Xwings, and 1 VCX.
Or it could be 5 stands of Ywings, 7 of Xwings, and 1 VCX if each stand is a flight of three fighters.
To me the latter is both closer in feel to the films, and a better force on the tabletop.
Or look at the Phoenix cell in rebels, as first introduced.
1 Pelta (medium base)
4 CR90 corvette (4 small base)
12 Awings (either 1 or 4 stands)
Which feels better for the game? Again to me, the larger # of fighter stands both feels more right to the shows/films, but also plays better in the game.
You can split up groups to do different things, for example. Which is common in the films, and do mixed squadrons (like how at endor Red group had some Awings in with the Xwings)
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Just got my first Pelta-class ship for Armada. Not a bad little vessel.
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Personal taste matters too.
For example, the battle of scarif.
The rebels had;
3 Brahatok gunships (corvette)
3 Hammerhead corvettes
7 CR90 Corvette
3 Nebulon-B Frigates
10 GR75 transports
1 MC75 Cruiser
15 Ywings
22 Xwings
1 VCX100
Which means under one stand equals a squadron it could be translated as 1 large base ship, 3 medium base, 13 small base, 5 Flotillas, 1 stand Ywings, 2 stands Xwings, and 1 VCX.
Or it could be 5 stands of Ywings, 7 of Xwings, and 1 VCX if each stand is a flight of three fighters.
To me the latter is both closer in feel to the films, and a better force on the tabletop.
Or look at the Phoenix cell in rebels, as first introduced.
1 Pelta (medium base)
4 CR90 corvette (4 small base)
12 Awings (either 1 or 4 stands)
Which feels better for the game? Again to me, the larger # of fighter stands both feels more right to the shows/films, but also plays better in the game.
You can split up groups to do different things, for example. Which is common in the films, and do mixed squadrons (like how at endor Red group had some Awings in with the Xwings)
I wonder what the Imperials had on the other side. 2 ISDs and the Shield Gate Base with a lot of fighters. I wonder how many fighters?
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If you go with Rebels, and we did not see any other TIE starfighter types in Rogue One as well aside from the air battle, it would be 12 TIE Fighter squadrons; 6 for each ISD's complement. Not counting the garrison's complement (well it was mostly TIE Strikers) on the ground and on the gate structure.
Bear in mind, Armada doesn't have TIE Striker yet and there is no fast Fighter-Bomber (It's a two-seater with bomb capability and is incredibly fast for that) that could stand in for it besides the TIE Defender which has shields and ion cannons and would be more expensive.
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Just got my first Pelta-class ship for Armada. Not a bad little vessel.
Rapid Launch Bay is a nifty upgrade card. It let you keep squadrons off board until you place them, so no one can shoot them out of sky until then. You can activate them right after placing them but only for firing action. Launching (placing them) counted as their movement for that turn.
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If you go with Rebels, and we did not see any other TIE starfighter types in Rogue One as well aside from the air battle, it would be 12 TIE Fighter squadrons; 6 for each ISD's complement. Not counting the garrison's complement (well it was mostly TIE Strikers) on the ground and on the gate structure.
Bear in mind, Armada doesn't have TIE Striker yet and there is no fast Fighter-Bomber (It's a two-seater with bomb capability and is incredibly fast for that) that could stand in for it besides the TIE Defender which has shields and ion cannons and would be more expensive.
the gate-base launched at least another 6 squadrons woirth
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--efiI72gt--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/l73jsec4ksvpujrdtg0e.gif)
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Firepower of 2 ISDs and multiple Squads of Fighters, and the Imperials were still on the short end of the battle until Darth Vader showed up.
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Firepower of 2 ISDs and multiple Squads of Fighters, and the Imperials were still on the short end of the battle until Darth Vader showed up.
With his ISD I Devastator (being Last of ISD I before lines switched over to II, she's surprisingly competitive with II due to modifications) that's not your typical ISD I. Against a fleet that had just taken a beating from two ISD Is. Until He shown up, the Imperial Garrison had essentially lost the battle with both ISD Is destroyed and probably all TIE squadrons routed.
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I think a strong case could be made for each stand counting as 6 fighters, and 2 stands being a squadron - players place two at a time, and in the Squadron phase move two at a time.
I also found a really great blog that looks at the ships and commanders from a current standpoint, rather than one dating back to its wave of release: Cannot Get Your Ship Out (http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2017/02/armada-101-working-your-way-up-from.html) is written by two people and I love it just for the name.
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It's easier to see the squadron stand as representing a full squadron of 12 fighters because it's abstract.
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true, but that also means that the typical player's fleet (with 1/4 to 1/3rd the total points devoted to fighters) has far more fighters involved than the Rebel alliance ever gathered in one place, even for such major assaults as the death star 2 or Scarif.
if one squadron is multiple stands, that disparity is no longer as much of an issue.
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I always thought a Star Wars Squadron was 12 fighters.
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I always thought a Star Wars Squadron was 12 fighters.
it is. the question is how many fighter stands that equates to. for example, whether this;
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/16/c0/f1/16c0f121a31e622da84e51246bf0ce6f.jpg)
represents 6 squadrons (IE: 72 fighters), or only 1.5 (18 fighters) or something in between.
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They really do look better painted, don't they?
O0
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That is a nice paint job on those small fighters.
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it's just an image i found in pinterest that i figured would illustrate the point.
another one i found. (here: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/174056-dwrrs-shipyard/ )
(http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah283/dwrrobotham/763A44A5-2276-4C4C-9E9D-80DFF4BF1988_zpsftgjsofb.jpg)
so is that 9 squadrons*, or only 2 1/4?
*(3x more than any rebel fleet in the films)
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I use 3 fighters on a stand as Squadron or even a Star in Battletech
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That is how Armada treat them as. a Single stand, even if it's 3 miniatures, is a full squadron in the game. Again, abstract for sake of gameplay.
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That is how Armada treat them as. a Single stand, even if it's 3 miniatures, is a full squadron in the game. Again, abstract for sake of gameplay.
Armada never says a thing about how many fighters are in a squadron, and begs the question why two dozen X-wings all firing at a single target (say, a Falcon, or a YV-666) simultaneously can fail to destroy it on average.
The simplest answer is that what is called and represented as a "squadron" in Armada is not actually 12 fighters.
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Oh my gods! At what point do yall ignored the very word "abstract"?! In Armada Game, The starfighter stand, regardless of the fact that it has three MINIATURES on it, is considered a full squadron IN game. NOT IN UNIVERSE!
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Welcome to a gaming forum on the internet. Regret your stay. ;)
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Oh my gods! At what point do yall ignored the very word "abstract"?! In Armada Game, The starfighter stand, regardless of the fact that it has three MINIATURES on it, is considered a full squadron IN game. NOT IN UNIVERSE!
Dude, I get you. People get hung up on completely irrelevant details.
I have to deal with scale tryhards in STAW. Who cares what scale the minis are in when the base plates make a shuttle the same size as a Warbird anyway?
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In game and real life is always different.
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In game and real life is always different.
By way of a real life example: a military Service I am familiar with has squadrons populated by aircraft numbering 12, 14, 16, and 27 depending airframe.
Armada is an abstract of a fiction. So have fun!
S/F
Matt
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Oh my gods! At what point do yall ignored the very word "abstract"?! In Armada Game, The starfighter stand, regardless of the fact that it has three MINIATURES on it, is considered a full squadron IN game. NOT IN UNIVERSE!
Well, there are arguments for that and against it - the fact that you place fighter stands two at a time and activate two at a time could mean that they're in elements of six, and a pair equals a single squadron...
But really, it doesn't matter. I think, when I get around to magnetizing and painting my fighters, I may only put one to a stand when it's a hero character (and may paint up one for each hero individually, even if they're in a squadron most of the time!) and keep three when it's not. Nice visual way to distinguish them.
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Well, there are arguments for that and against it - the fact that you place fighter stands two at a time and activate two at a time could mean that they're in elements of six, and a pair equals a single squadron...
Or they're starfighters, having better movement and reaction than a big lumbering starship. ;D
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A fighter squad should move better and be more maneuverable then a capital ship.
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So, scale issues aside, can anyone tell me what fighter cards come with the Rebel Transport?
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Wes Janson
Jek Porkins
Tarn Mison
Hobby Klivian
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the gate-base launched at least another 6 squadrons woirth
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--efiI72gt--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/l73jsec4ksvpujrdtg0e.gif)
You know that is still an amazing sight. We never saw the Empire *launch* a TIE swarm itself in the movies before this.
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Wes Janson
Jek Porkins
Tarn Mison
Hobby Klivian
Thanks.
And which Tie Pilots come with the Assault Carrier?
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You know that is still an amazing sight. We never saw the Empire *launch* a TIE swarm itself in the movies before this.
It is impressive. I mean, I know we saw the swarms of Tie Patrols around the 2nd Death Star, but we didn't see them scramble.
I'm waiting for the massive fleet engagement to make an appearance - with hundreds of warships to a side.
Back to Fighter Squadron Scale - in Armada, all that really matters is that a stand is a stand, and it costs so many points to field, in a limited point pool. Regardless of the fact that the damage for certain large ships scales consistently with how they're treated in X-Wing, as long as those two bits are accounted for, it really doesn't matter. (I'll have fun imagining my 3 fighters per stand are wiping out your 6-12 when a stand is eliminated, if that's what you're telling me during the game.) ;)
And, that brings up an interesting idea: a means of differentiating firepower for older tech.
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I thought it was good showing to have your fleet sitting peaceful and you garrison enjoying the sun on a planet to mounting a counter attack to the Rebels attack on Scarrif. Sure they ended up the losing side of the battle until Darth Vader showed up. There was even a shot on the planet with Erso and other science officers when a Tie Fighter was launched made a turn and shot at the attacking rebels.
It was nice seeing the Fighter Swarm launch like that out of the Gate it would off been neat to see all the fighters launch like that at the Battle of Endor.
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Thanks.
And which Tie Pilots come with the Assault Carrier?
Scourge
Youngster
Wampa
Chaser
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So, I'll be digging out my Armada pieces again, soon, and probably going over the rules a second time. But, I'm curious if anyone can answer me right off the top what the standard point value for a basic game of Armada is, and what would you recommend beyond fighter expansions to fill in what the core box doesn't cover to reach that minimum?
Thanks.
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So, I'll be digging out my Armada pieces again, soon, and probably going over the rules a second time. But, I'm curious if anyone can answer me right off the top what the standard point value for a basic game of Armada is, and what would you recommend beyond fighter expansions to fill in what the core box doesn't cover to reach that minimum?
Thanks.
Typical 'legal' match is 400 pts. Smaller ships are cheaper, while large ships like Imperial Star Destroyer and Home One can be expensive. Price and Point Cost that is.
In deciding what to get to build up your forces, you have to find what it is you want in your collection like a theme. For me, it's an Imperial task force (as detailed in novel Thrawn) operating in the Outer Rim. This gives me the direction for the imperial game pieces to collect.
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So, I'll be digging out my Armada pieces again, soon, and probably going over the rules a second time. But, I'm curious if anyone can answer me right off the top what the standard point value for a basic game of Armada is, and what would you recommend beyond fighter expansions to fill in what the core box doesn't cover to reach that minimum?
Thanks.
Heh, went through the same thing recently. Standard games these days are 400 points, but if you're not running around with ISDs and Mon Cal cruisers, the old standard of 300 points is easier to understand and get a feel for the game in.
What you probably want are:
1) The first fighter packs - both Rebel and Imperial - and the Rogues & Villains, which has stuff for both sides.
2) Imperials want a Light Cruiser (long-range ship with a couple of important defensive cards and a great commander), a Gladiator SD (Demolisher is probably the best title in the GAME, and the Glad is a strong ship), a Imperial Carrier flotilla (to push your fighters faster) as a base. The Imperial Star Destroyer is good, and the Raider is fun, but those three ships (Gozandi, Gladiator, Arquitens) are a solid base with the VSD that comes in the box.
3) Rebels want another Nebulon-B Frigate (for the titles therein, and they work well in pairs), a Phoenix Home (the Pelta has some great synergies), and a Rebel Transports pack (because flotillas are pretty good). After that, you might want the MC30 Frigate for Rieekan or a CR90 to create a little wolfpack, but those three expansions are a solid base with the core.
4) Look for some of the promo cards on eBay, especially Turbolaser Reroute Circuits. Leading Shots is also useful on a fair few ships, but TRCs turn Corellian Corvettes into pocket murder machines.
I'd say bare minimum for good 300 point games would be the first fighter packs with Rogues & Villains, the Imperial Light Cruiser, the Carriers, a second Nebulon-B, and Rebel Transports.
The weird thing is... I bought all that, and I've yet to play more than a handful of games. I just like them, they're great toys, but I probably should have spent money on Malifaux instead.
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Oh, and check out the Cannot Get Your Ship Out (http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/) blog for a great set of articles about how Armada functions. It's also an entertaining read. There's the Steel Squadron blog too, but CGYSO has a more modern take on the ships, whereas SS's reviews are from the date the ship released, so stuff like Minister Tua on a Victory-II to give it a Defensive Refit is... not included.
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Heh, went through the same thing recently. Standard games these days are 400 points, but if you're not running around with ISDs and Mon Cal cruisers, the old standard of 300 points is easier to understand and get a feel for the game in.
What you probably want are:
1) The first fighter packs - both Rebel and Imperial - and the Rogues & Villains, which has stuff for both sides.
Actually you really really need to get the second fighter pack. For Empire there is the lambda shuttle that allows you ships to command squadrons across the board as well the ability to move objective markers about.
Second I highly recommend getting a copy of the Corellian Campaign. More unique squadrons for both Empire and Rebels as well as more objective cards.
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Quick question: What's the default point value for an Epic-scale game?
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Quick question: What's the default point value for an Epic-scale game?
200 each if playing on a team, 300 points if not.
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Cool. Finally picked up a Gozanti recently, and have been itching to try it out.
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Cool. Finally picked up a Gozanti recently, and have been itching to try it out.
yeah, I got the Raider for Palpatine (and because it was a cool looking ship, and offered the TIE Advanced fix that is DOA a year later), but I think the Gozanti is better for Epic.
Epic ships have many, many quirks that I've discovered, mostly by playing wrong and finding out after the fact:
1) They move LAST, after all other ships have moved. If they overlap a smaller ship by this move, it's destroyed and takes a face-up damage card to the section that overlapped. If a smaller ship overlaps them during its own move, the SMALL ship rolls an attack die and suffers any result.
2) When they recover shields, they spend ALL their energy and can place restored shield tokens on both sections if they've lost tokens, not just one. The Shield Technician changes this, which makes it a super-valuable card in Epic play.
3) The Action Phase goes - Movement, Generate Energy, Spend Energy, Take Action.
4) The smaller Epic ships only get one action, the larger ones get two - one per section - and each section can ONLY take the actions listed on its card. Reinforces can only be placed on one section, though, even the smaller Epic ships.
5) Ion tokens remain until the next turn's Generate Energy phase, after which each Ion token removes one energy.
6) There are 12 obstacles on the 6'x3' board, but they are placed in pairs - each member of a pair must be at R1 of its counterpart, but a pair can't be placed within R2 of another obstacle pair or a table edge.
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I think we've been making a big mistake when playing with Epic ships. Upon re-reading the rules I noticed that there's no time the energy limit on cards is not in force. So no more getting 4 energy to recharge your guns and still having a full reactor... :(
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Given my love of ordnance, I'm mostly looking at Ordnance Technicians, the Coordinate action, and oodles of possibilities... >:D
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I think we've been making a big mistake when playing with Epic ships. Upon re-reading the rules I noticed that there's no time the energy limit on cards is not in force. So no more getting 4 energy to recharge your guns and still having a full reactor... :(
Ah, yes, that too - but I think my friends and I have always played that rule right, so it wasn't something I noted in that list.
Epic ships are... complicated. Like, really complicated. I like Epic X-Wing, it actually FEELS like a wargame with tactics and a real battlefield, but man do the big ships make it hard.
Also, the big ships aren't... very good, in a strictly competitive sense. They're more like big point banks, rather than effective combat ships - a 150-point Raider is going to do less damage and be more easily dodged than an equivalent weight of small fighters. The only real advantage big ships have is regeneration.
But I'll still use my Raider in every game, because dammit, I paid for it and it looks awesome.
I think my favorite Epic ship build is on the Gozanti. Suppressor + Grand Moff Tarkin + Comms Booster + Broadcast Array is horrifically disruptive, giving and/or removing multiple actions per turn (GMT either takes or gives a Focus token depending on what you need, Suppressor takes away their target locks for anti-ordnance purposes, Comm Booster swaps one of your energy for stress removal AND a focus token, and Jam is WAY better than I gave it credit for), while still leaving space for Shield Technician + Automated Protocols and the freaking turret, at half the price or less of a Raider. Automated Protocols is important because it means you can Jam/Coordinate AND Recover/Reinforce in a single turn, and Shield Technician means you don't blow all your Energy in Recover actions.
Oh, and there's still a Team slot open, so you CAN add the Ordnance Experts if you want to... but that 'one per round' restriction kills it for me. I think I'd prefer a Sensor Team (for more anti-TL shenanigans) or Engineering Team (more energy = longer lifespan through Recover actions, making it harder to kill!)
But my build does mean no ride-hitchers, which does kinda suck...
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But I'll still use my Raider in every game, because dammit, I paid for it and it looks awesome.
Best reason to use anything in that game. O0
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I just got one, too, simply being curious.
I notice that in the campaign, the Rebels cannot deploy Biggs, and for rather obvious gameplay reasons. Does the Empire have a Biggs Darklighter equivalent?
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Not really. Protecting each other isn't really the Imperial Schtick.
Closest I can think of is Captain Kagi, a Lambda pilot. He forces target locks to be placed on him instead of anyone else, whenever normally possible.
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Best reason to use anything in that game. O0
I've had mixed results with my Raider.
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Given my love of ordnance, I'm mostly looking at Ordnance Technicians, the Coordinate action, and oodles of possibilities... >:D
Wait until you roll that whale over a couple fighters that got too close.
Did that a month ago, smashed a pair of B-wings that thought they could unload point blank on my flank.
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Oh, I've done that already, back when I took a buddy's Goz out for a test drive. Every bit as fun as it sounds, and more. >:D
Oddly enough, I also proved to be more adept at avoiding obstacles in a huge ship than I am with smaller stuff. Go figure.
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It's that whole spatial awareness thing. You're more conscious of having a bigger belt-line and higher mass. ;)
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https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/5/19/rapid-deployment/ Such carrier. Wow. So much carry. :P
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I thought the Rebelion side the Carrier is one of theirs. I guess the Imperals fly it around now.
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I thought the Rebelion side the Carrier is one of theirs. I guess the Imperals fly it around now.
The Rebels stole it from the Imps.
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I thought the Rebelion side the Carrier is one of theirs. I guess the Imperals fly it around now.
in the Eu it was a cargo ship refit as a carrier for the rebels.
in new Canon, it is the Imperial Quasar Fire Class Cruiser-Carrier, a dedicated carrier platform used by the empire when they don't want to spare a full star destroyer.
in Rebels the Phoenix Squadron cell manages to capture one that had been assigned to the occupation of Ryloth. it had been the base of operations for TIE bombers used to attack the Ryloth resistance and perform terror attacks on the populace. Phoenix Squadron had needed it because they'd lost their former base of operations (the Pelta class Phoenix Home) a few months earlier and their fighter compliment was suffering rapid attrition. (they'd been docking their fighters to the outside of CR90 corvettes as a stopgap, but they couldn't easily maintain the fighters and the pilots were getting worn out and sloppy because they were constantly on the run)
since in the new Canon the design is Imperial, and the Rebellion only stole the one (so far), FFG made it an imperial ship in Armada. since the Empire is the one that builds and operates them.
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I thought the Rebelion side the Carrier is one of theirs. I guess the Imperals fly it around now.
The rebels in Rebels stole one and it didn't make it out of last season. Regardless a few were disappointed when the third title wasn't an Alliance ship.
One curious mechanic in Armada that is sucking up way too much discussion bandwidth over there is the "out activating" one's opponent ploy in tournament play. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Battletech have a solution for this? It has been so long but I seem to remember a mechanic (via MegaMek) that stopped one side from leveraging this. Am I mistaken in that? Regardless, it seems a simple fix for Armada to have the player with greater numbers activate a point value proportionate to the player with fewer ships single activation (e.g., my 1 x ISD vs. my opponent's 2 x Nebulon-Bs or 4 x flotillas), discounting the point value of squadrons of course. Thoughts?
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In order to "fix" this problem, FFG would first have to believe it's a problem.
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In order to "fix" this problem, FFG would first have to believe it's a problem.
Ah, excellent point.
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Battletech's solution is elegant, but the main problem is that there are so few activations in Armada implementing it would be kind of weird - particularly because in tournaments, the first player ALWAYS moves first, so there's no losing/gaining initiative mechanics.
They choose to balance this out with the objectives mechanic, where the first player may go first, but the second player shapes the battlefield in a potentially advantageous way.
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I just need to remember that Expanded Universe isn't "canon" anymore.
I just remember it was the Flurry from Truce at Bakura. A good book to me.
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the new Canon has been mining the old Eu for ships and characters, though usually changing details to fit the new setting and events. makign the Quasar Fire an imperial light carrier instead of a converted freighter. (which to be honest.. it makes a lot more sense as a dedicated carrier) you notice they also changed the weaponry around, getting rid of the fixed forward turbolasers (on a hard to maneuver ship?) in favor of high powered anti-fight/anti-ship turrets?
to be honest though, i'm hoping that in the next season of Rebels, we'll see the imperials using a few more of the clone war era ships like the Venator, and the Rebels using some of the old seperatist ships. i doubt the Imperials would get rid of anything that was still useful (Venators might not be cutting edge anymore, but shifted to different roles they would still be fairly useful.), while the Rebels certainly would not turn up their noses at any ship they could get a hold of, regardless of who it served before.
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Tried Armada yesterday:
One of our new gaming group members is an Armada player, he put together a scenario and let us try it. I won't bore you with a critique of the scenario, but I did find the play interesting.
What sort of novice insights would you give a one time player?
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Tried Armada yesterday:
One of our new gaming group members is an Armada player, he put together a scenario and let us try it. I won't bore you with a critique of the scenario, but I did find the play interesting.
What sort of novice insights would you give a one time player?
Have fun. It is an investment. Have fun.
The preview is up for Hammerhead Corvettes. Hopefully there is more that one copy of each of the Task Force options. Buying two box sets of each, meaning four corvettes will be a bit much for me.
Also, the community writ large is in agony of whatever "meta" "won" "worlds".
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Ignore the community, play what sounds like fun.
Regardless of the temptation, avoid loading up ships with every upgrade card they can possibly hold. Most will work just fine with only a few upgrades(if any), and while upgrades are nice for force-multiplying, there's no substitute for have more hulls for your opponent to chew through.
If you're playing Imps, you really can't go wrong with "Front Towards Enemy". :)
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Eehh, I think that there's a rather moderate pushback on that. Considering the strength of the Euro tournament that just had a Rhymerball win with a much more balanced top 16....
Armada is a wargame that FEELS more expensive than most because of that initial, up-front kick in the balls $100 cost - which frustratingly doesn't even include enough dice to play the larger ships, so that's another $15 retail. It also includes ships that you may not need if you want to play one faction, and that you may even need to buy an individual blister of anyway to get titles and upgrades!
HOWEVER, Armada matches the median wargame cost of about $300 for a reasonably versatile fleet with ships and squadrons. It also comes in well under Warmachine and - spirits forbear! - 40k for price point. Sure, an ISD is $50, BUT it's also 35% of a fleet in that one ship!
These guys are armada fanboys, but do bring up all the reasons to play Armada:
http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2017/02/why-play-armada-what-makes-it-unique.html
And their blog is also really good and reasonably entertaining; that post is tagged as their 101 series and those give the basics really well.
I enjoy it because of the scale, personally.
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Have fun. It is an investment. Have fun.
Yeah, no. I'm our group's "X-Wing guy". I am not investing in Armada.
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Yeah, no. I'm our group's "X-Wing guy". I am not investing in Armada.
Only do it if you like fleet on fleet and Star Wars. Otherwise, the miniatures are of an excellent quality for a game miniature.
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Ignore the community, play what sounds like fun.
Regardless of the temptation, avoid loading up ships with every upgrade card they can possibly hold. Most will work just fine with only a few upgrades(if any), and while upgrades are nice for force-multiplying, there's no substitute for have more hulls for your opponent to chew through.
If you're playing Imps, you really can't go wrong with "Front Towards Enemy". :)
In anut shell that's about it.
Imps is forward shooty heavy, Rebs are mostly Side-Shooty heavy
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Eehh, I think that there's a rather moderate pushback on that. Considering the strength of the Euro tournament that just had a Rhymerball win with a much more balanced top 16....
Armada is a wargame that FEELS more expensive than most because of that initial, up-front kick in the balls $100 cost - which frustratingly doesn't even include enough dice to play the larger ships, so that's another $15 retail. It also includes ships that you may not need if you want to play one faction, and that you may even need to buy an individual blister of anyway to get titles and upgrades!
HOWEVER, Armada matches the median wargame cost of about $300 for a reasonably versatile fleet with ships and squadrons. It also comes in well under Warmachine and - spirits forbear! - 40k for price point. Sure, an ISD is $50, BUT it's also 35% of a fleet in that one ship!
These guys are armada fanboys, but do bring up all the reasons to play Armada:
http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2017/02/why-play-armada-what-makes-it-unique.html
And their blog is also really good and reasonably entertaining; that post is tagged as their 101 series and those give the basics really well.
I enjoy it because of the scale, personally.
My personal distaste for Armada is the fact that is one wants to play competetively you must buy ships from BOTH factions.
Want to play Imperials? Want to load up that Demolisher Gladiator-Class Star Destroyer with Assault Proton Torpedoes to really give them Rebel Scum a hard hit? Then you need to BUY the MC30c Frigate Expansion Pack, because you ain't gonna find it elsewhere.
And it is the same thing for Rebel Players. Want the Expanded Launchers for your Rebel Ship(s)? The you need to buy the Gladiator Class Star Destroyer.
In fun games, don't worry about it, as (hopefully?) your opponent won't care, and a photocopy for competition will not cut it.
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Xwing has some of the same issues, though with their larger product range you have more duplicate options for many cards.
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I don't bother with Assault Proton Torps on my Gladiator - Expanded Launchers is WAAAAY better. Dumping 10 dice, 8 of them black, into someone at close range is a much more solid bet than expecting to roll a random crit - and you'll probably cut through their shields anyway, so any crits will be face-up regardless!
But yes. That's a reality of the business model they've set up. I certainly don't think it's as bad as it is in X-Wing (seriously, there are no Imperial ships with Engine Upgrade, one of the most BASIC cards out there! Autothrusters comes in ONE SHIP, and all three factions have ships which require it!) but at least with Armada if you buy something off-faction you'll still have SOME use of it, seeing as how the core box has ships for both factions and it doesn't require too many ships to get to a full fleet.
However, I bought my stuff mostly to set up a forced perspective display at some point in the near future, with the small Armada ships waaaay in the back and the bigger X-Wing stuff in front. :D
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I don't bother with Assault Proton Torps on my Gladiator - Expanded Launchers is WAAAAY better. Dumping 10 dice, 8 of them black, into someone at close range is a much more solid bet than expecting to roll a random crit - and you'll probably cut through their shields anyway, so any crits will be face-up regardless!
But yes. That's a reality of the business model they've set up. I certainly don't think it's as bad as it is in X-Wing (seriously, there are no Imperial ships with Engine Upgrade, one of the most BASIC cards out there! Autothrusters comes in ONE SHIP, and all three factions have ships which require it!) but at least with Armada if you buy something off-faction you'll still have SOME use of it, seeing as how the core box has ships for both factions and it doesn't require too many ships to get to a full fleet.
However, I bought my stuff mostly to set up a forced perspective display at some point in the near future, with the small Armada ships waaaay in the back and the bigger X-Wing stuff in front. :D
Really? I like:
Assault Proton Torpedeos and Admiral Screed.
Spend a die (Hmm...how about this REGULAR Hit Black die) to a Black die WITH HIT and a Critical, and due a Guaranteed Crit to the enemy...might even be a structural damage for bonus damage :D
And that card also if one gets a regular crit allows one to deal two face up cards. One for getting a Crit, and 1 from the card.
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APT's face up card also happens before damage is applied, so if you get the shield failure crit you get a lot more hull damage.
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APT's face up card also happens before damage is applied, so if you get the shield failure crit you get a lot more hull damage.
I know >:D
And couple with my absolute favorite Officer card - INTEL OFFICER...and it's TAKE THAT REBEL SCUM!
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Really? I like:
Assault Proton Torpedeos and Admiral Screed.
Spend a die (Hmm...how about this REGULAR Hit Black die) to a Black die WITH HIT and a Critical, and due a Guaranteed Crit to the enemy...might even be a structural damage for bonus damage :D
And that card also if one gets a regular crit allows one to deal two face up cards. One for getting a Crit, and 1 from the card.
...No...
If you roll a crit, you choose a crit effect. The default crit effect is "Flip a faceup card if it deals hull damage." If you select the APT crit effect, then you don't get the default one. You can only select one crit effect per attack, no matter how many crits you roll, so it's either the APT or standard. Page 4 rules reference.
I mean, Screed's okay, but using him cuts out Motti for making my ships way tougher than any Rebel could handle (17 hull on an ISD with Reinforced Blast Doors?!) or Moff Jerry for making my ships insanely maneuverable. Or Vader for making me able to reroll EVERYTHING - particularly great if I'm fishing for an Accuracy to lock down a pesty flotilla's Scatter, and he can also fish for crits if I'm really desperate.
If I ever started having serious trouble with Rieekan Aceholes taking over my local games, I might invest in Screed and a Raider with Flechette Torps to guarantee constant lockdowns, and in that case yeah I'd use an APT Demolisher and a ton of black dice ships.
But to this point we're just havin' fun and not really being too serious. Speaking of serious...
I was going to go to a decently sized X-Wing tournament yesterday with some friends. Was planning on bringing Quickdraw with Rage and Electronic Baffles to quickly shoot twice with a ton of mods on both rolls along with some other stuff (though I was also tempted to run the new Swarm Leader EPT on a Decimator with some cheap Academy Pilots to feed it Evades and an endgame ship of some flavor, Inquisitor or Omega Leader).
However, as I was walking out to the car... BAM. Ankle pain out of nowhere. It wasn't bad, but it got worse the more I tried to put weight on it and I definitely did not want to spend sixish hours standing over an X-Wing board.
So I missed out on the prizes. Oh well, Tactician isn't that great anyway, even if it does have a sexy Scum woman on the art.
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So APT is useful for dealing a crit effect on ships with the shield still remaining in the arc against your attacks.
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THEY'RE ADDING ASSAULT GUNBOAT! WOO!
Also some other ships. But ASSAULT GUNBOAT!! [blank]
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THEY'RE ADDING ASSAULT GUNBOAT! WOO!
Also some other ships. But ASSAULT GUNBOAT!! [blank]
Armada or Xwing? Please say Armada!
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X-wing.
https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/256546-wave-12-announced/
Not sure they got anything for Armada...
EDIT Actually, looks like there will be something coming for Armada but no announcement yet.
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THEY'RE ADDING ASSAULT GUNBOAT! WOO!
Also some other ships. But ASSAULT GUNBOAT!! [blank]
Link?
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Assault Gunboat:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHhkTnDXcAAOKpF.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHhkTnBXYAArFyJ.jpg:large
Twitter images (didn't open other ones, will see if i can find them again). Discussion thread linked above.
And the other ships:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHhkTnBXsAANT7m.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHhkTnBXkAAuWbv.jpg:large
The AG has new "reload action" and jamming beam (presumably a cannon) usable with a title. Also SLAM action, it is kind of mix of Missile Boat and Assault Gunboat from old canon.
EDIT video with pics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_PYrbXmKy0
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The AG has new "reload action" and jamming beam (presumably a cannon) usable with a title. Also SLAM action, it is kind of mix of Missile Boat and Assault Gunboat from old canon.
well there was not really as much difference between those two as the visuals implied. handling it as a title works well i think. and combining the two lets them give it more options and make it more unique within the game.
personally i am interested in the Sheathipede shuttle/Phantom II. already have a VCX-100 Ghost and Phantom I, curious to see what new tricks it can do with the Phantom II. plus i rather like the look of the Sheathipede, even the cut down one from Rebels.
kinda makes we wish the VCX-100 model was created with a modular dock on the model for the shuttle though, so i could actually replace the standard aux shuttle with the Sheathipede, and physical remove either during play when they undock, the way the Gozanti carries its fighters.
my rebel shopping list just became "heroes of the resistance, Phantom II, Rebel Transport" in roughly that order.
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Nada for Armada, I understand.
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I feel... conflicted... about X-Wing lately.
On the one hand, the core mechanic of plot dials, reveal and resolve in ascending pilot skill order, and then attack in descending pilot skill order is amazing and solid. I love the miniatures, I love the alternate game modes like Epic, Kessel Kup, and Heroes of the Aturi Cluster, and I'm not ever giving up my ships.
On the other hand, the game itself is broken competitively. Around 5% of everything ever printed is currently being used competitively, and that might not be bad if the game was just whatever the devs make up like Magic the Gathering, but this is Star Wars. The draw is X-Wings, TIE Fighters, Luke Skywalker, Darth Vader, not Tel Tevura, Jumpmasters, Tugboats, and other obscure things that show up in one novel for a few pages or a twenty year old video game and nowhere else.
What might also make it better is if there were actually other ways to play being endorsed by FFG, but no dice there.
It's just... I'm really starting to dislike actually playing the game. It's about finding combos and stacking abilities and trying not to lose the rock-paper-scissors matchups too badly, not flying well and trying to outguess your opponent. The best game I had recently was a near-mirror match where it came down to my Quickdraw and his Backdraft with Adaptability, both of us with one damage, and it was a final moment where we had to guess how the other would move... and I guessed wrong and lost. But it was AWESOME, everything that I've ever loved about X-Wing, a game about arc dodging and maneuvering and prediction and FLYING, not just rolling tons of dice or negating tons of dice.
I guess I'm just downhearted because I've been helping a friend test the latest hotness, Fairship Rebels - which is Biggs, Lowwrick, Jess Pava, and Rex, with a game plan of "spread the damage that would hit Biggs out to as many other ships as possible so you keep your four ships alive while theirs die... or you go to time" - and it's just plain boring. Boring to fly against, boring to fly, it's all about beating on it until it cracks or catches you in Jess' arc multiple times.
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Well, the balance in X-wing sucked pretty much from the start set. It's not like X-wings have much chance against competently flown TIE fighters...
I'm starting to look at one of my favorite pastimes: coming up with house rule stuff to balance games. Starting with a couple of new titles for X-wing and E-wings to make them actually useful...
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What might also make it better is if there were actually other ways to play being endorsed by FFG, but no dice there.
Every large ship and box set has come with story driven scenarios. The huge ships come with full campaigns.
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honestly the problem is less the game (though there are some balance issues) and more with the fact that the playerbase tends to default to "lets have a tournament" when organizing events less often than storyline or casual events. and with that emphasis on tournaments comes min-maxing, competitive fan-lists, and elevation of 'the Meta' as something you always have to follow. less emphasis on "oh this looks fun" or "hey, this would be interesting" and more on "how can i beat the current popular list that exploits all the current balance issues"
one reason i have been avoiding tournaments (also why i get to play so rarely. :( )
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honestly the problem is less the game (though there are some balance issues) and more with the fact that the playerbase tends to default to "lets have a tournament" when organizing events less often than storyline or casual events. and with that emphasis on tournaments comes min-maxing, competitive fan-lists, and elevation of 'the Meta' as something you always have to follow.
And that comes from the top-down. If FFG organized formal rules for, say, the Kessel Kup/Mario Kart racing system and offered it as a valid tournament alternative, or if they issued an actual campaign system, or had alternate tournament scenarios rather than "Kill 'em all" like a version of the Escort Senator's Shuttle, then I'd have much fewer problems.
But that isn't the case.
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Armada Wave VII has been announced
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/8/25/the-grand-admiral-arrives/
(https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/85/0f/850f6d59-950e-410c-b39e-f1cbcc8f0c7e/swm29-30_wave7.png)
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MC75, ISD-I Chimera, and Kom'rk's?
i guess we know what the third missing SKU for Xwing is now...
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Armada Wave VII has been announced
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/8/25/the-grand-admiral-arrives/
(https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/85/0f/850f6d59-950e-410c-b39e-f1cbcc8f0c7e/swm29-30_wave7.png)
OOooo...New 'Boarding Trooper' type card as Vader!
[drool]
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MC75, ISD-I Chimera, and Kom'rk's?
i guess we know what the third missing SKU for Xwing is now...
Well, since it's not the gunboat...
Super Star Destroyer? :D
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actually talking of the X-wing game.. the currently announced wave skipped over 3 SKU's, indicating there are probably 3 products still to be announced. the Resistance A-wing and TIE Silencer from the upcoming film are a shoe-in, but debate over the third one has been heavy.
since Armada's fighters invariable end up as X-wing ships, i'd guess it'll be an Epic sized Kom'rk (it is way too big to be a standard large... the VCX-100 Ghost was pushing it already, and the kom'rk is even bigger), probably Scum faction.
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I would have liked them to toss a couple of U-Wings, with a boarding mechanism for fighters, in with the MC-75.
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well they've not shown the cards or other pack items for the MC75 yet, so maybe it will.
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well they've not shown the cards or other pack items for the MC75 yet, so maybe it will.
While that's an encouraging thought, for which I thank you, FFG tends to show the minis when they can.
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And more new ships for X-wing. They revealed Wave XIII, early 2018. Has two ships, both from The Last Jedi. Kylo Ren's TIE/vn Silencer, and Resistance B/SF-17 Bomber (large base, large ship seen in the trailer).
The bad news is this: The TIE Silencer costs 30 dollars. It is a small base ship in a big package. I do wonder why... the ship is pretty big (and so is the model) but i wonder if it is that expensive really.
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link:
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/9/8/finish-what-you-start/
well the cynic in me says "because it has 2 autothrusters and 2 Primed Thrusters", thus making it a must buy for arc dodgers.
but looking at it, i'd say it is probably a combination of lots of cards, and the fact it is actually a fairly large figure.. it looks to be similar in size to TIE Punisher and the K-wing.. very large figures on small bases that normally do cost more.
in fact, price wise it it is fairly close to the U-wing.. which while large base, had a similar count of cards and tokens.
TIE Punisher: 4 pilots, 9 upgrade cards, 18 tokens
U-wing: 4 pilots, 14 upgrade cards, 19 tokens
TIE Silencer: 4 pilots, 13 visible upgrade cards, 16 tokens visible (assuming the ID#74 has its partner)
and since FFg has left stuff out of the preview shots before, it may have a few we don't see..
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Oh look, more bombs. That's what this game needs.
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Oh look, more bombs.
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/f96f1e39fc8bca5fb0dcf2aa5d97d84f/tumblr_inline_nvez6bFaDo1tr68ji_500.gif)
The Resistance Bomber might actually be the first TFA-era ship I pick up. I needs those Silos...
(...actually, I'm not seeing any new bombs, just repeats of older ones.)
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We have new cards for "Extra Munitions, except for bombs only and even better", and "throw bombs in front of you a lot farther than you could previously drop them" and a new rebel big ship with 12 HP and the ideal combination of upgrade slots to use it all.
I'm not excited.
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good news is that the "silos" card is B/SF-17 Bomber only. so can't be applied to anything else. all it does is give one bomb slot 4 uses.. which is good because the upgrade fills the 2nd bomb slot.
the trajectory simulator tosses bombs forward.. but is a systems slot, which means only 3 ships can make full use of it. the B/SF-17 Bomber, the TIE Punisher, and the Scurrg H-6 w Havoc title. there are a couple vehicles that you could conceivably fit it to with some card combo's (sticking Sabine into a VCX-100 or a U-wing, or a B-wing w/B-wing/E2 title for example) but those would be far less viable an option, since you'd be giving up a lot of other options.
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We have new cards for "Extra Munitions, except for bombs only and even better", and "throw bombs in front of you a lot farther than you could previously drop them" and a new rebel big ship with 12 HP and the ideal combination of upgrade slots to use it all.
I'm not excited.
The only way I could be more excited is if I could fit those Silos on my Punisher. As is, I think the trajectory thingy will give me a reason to actually use the non-unique Punishers.
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people on their forums had been calling for something to make the Punisher more useful for awhile. looks like they decided to actually do that.
as i pointed out on their forums earlier today, this would allow the Punisher (and the new bomber) to act like "artillery".. able to hurl bombs ahead into oncoming units. it is worth noting they specified no "action:" bombs.. so no proximity mines, conner nets, or cluster mines.. nothing that lingers on the battlefield. the ones it works with are the thermal detonators, Seismic charges, Ion Bombs, Proton bombs, and the new bomblet generator. all stuff that gets placed then explodes the same turn.
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I really like bombs (can't use thought. But who cares, more BOOM! ;D) but the B-17 doesn't attract me despite the name. I might try to get one of those bomb launchers from someone else, thought.
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but the B-17 doesn't attract me despite the name.
Holy Frak, I didn't get that connection!
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They already have some fighters from the Episode 8 for X-wing.
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They already have some fighters from the Episode 8 for X-wing.
Only the TIE/fo and TIE/sf and T-70 X-wing.
(The A-wing from TLJ trailer and other pics looks subtly different from the one in ROTJ so i assume it is not RZ-1 A-Wing but a newer model.)
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They already have some fighters from the Episode 8 for X-wing.
That's what we've been talking about for the last nine posts, did you miss them? ???
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So, I picked up the Rogues and Villains and Imperial Squadrons II packs.
Interesting stuff - I've been having fun looking up the different bounty hunters and ships.
But, with the ImpSquadsII Pack, I didn't see any new squadrons for the ImpSquads1. But, I've seen reviews of a Black Squadron TIE Fighter unit, as well as Biggs Darklighter X-Wing squadron for the Rebels. How does one get ahold of those cards? Were they tournament prizes or con-exclusives?
Secondly, I like checking out the scale of the different ships to see how close or far apart they are to one another, and I made an interesting discovery: according to Legends lore on Wookiepedia, the HWK-290 is 29 meters long, and is effectively a cargo hauler. The Moldy Crow X-Wing model is more of a roomy fighter, and nowhere near 29 meters in length at 1/270. Now, I've already noted some minor scale discrepancies among other models, like Slave 1 looking a little too large for being 21.5 meters long. The die-cast metal toys they sold a while back are a little more in line, in my opinion, but it's only a matter of a cm or so. Something I can forgive.
But, the HWK-290 is almost in line with the undersized CR-90 Corvette. While I don't mind imagining the Moldy Crow as actually being nothing more than an oversized fighter/bomber like the Havoc, I am tempted to mod the one I have for deployment with my growing 1/500 scale fleet, and putting it on a big-ship base to be deployed with the 1/500 CR-90 I have. Although, I could leave it on the fighter base, as an indication of the ship's agility.
Don't know what I'll do about deploying it with the regular scale figures. Kitbashing feels like a lot of work, but, scale is one of my little manias.
Any suggestions?
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Biggs comes in the Starter set
Black Squadron Ties come with EVERY TIE fighter: starter, expansion, and gozanti.
As for scale, I don't pay attention to it; the deckplates make every small craft the exact same size, and every large craft the exact same size.
Getting Xwing and Armada confused.
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The extra unique squadrons for Armada apparently comes from the Corellian Campaign set.
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Secondly, I like checking out the scale of the different ships to see how close or far apart they are to one another, and I made an interesting discovery: according to Legends lore on Wookiepedia, the HWK-290 is 29 meters long, and is effectively a cargo hauler. The Moldy Crow X-Wing model is more of a roomy fighter, and nowhere near 29 meters in length at 1/270. Now, I've already noted some minor scale discrepancies among other models, like Slave 1 looking a little too large for being 21.5 meters long. The die-cast metal toys they sold a while back are a little more in line, in my opinion, but it's only a matter of a cm or so. Something I can forgive.
But, the HWK-290 is almost in line with the undersized CR-90 Corvette. While I don't mind imagining the Moldy Crow as actually being nothing more than an oversized fighter/bomber like the Havoc, I am tempted to mod the one I have for deployment with my growing 1/500 scale fleet, and putting it on a big-ship base to be deployed with the 1/500 CR-90 I have. Although, I could leave it on the fighter base, as an indication of the ship's agility.
Don't know what I'll do about deploying it with the regular scale figures. Kitbashing feels like a lot of work, but, scale is one of my little manias.
Any suggestions?
realize that the 29 meter EU size is a faulty one coming from an old RPG book written before any actual information came out about the ship, and which has been contradicted in the source of the ship itself, and every product to use it since. (including other RPG books by the same company)
the official, and accurate to all uses, size is 16.5 meters. it is not a cargo carrier, it is basically a "civilian starfighter", meant for moving a couple people around. it is basically the microbus/minivan RV of the star wars galaxy. it is classified as a light freighter because there isn't a better category.
we actually had a bit of a discussion about this n another thread a little while ago.
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=59115.msg1362757#msg1362757
the X-wing version is the accurate size, according to Lucasfilm. (which is who provided the scaling information to FFG)
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So, I picked up the Rogues and Villains and Imperial Squadrons II packs.
Interesting stuff - I've been having fun looking up the different bounty hunters and ships.
But, with the ImpSquadsII Pack, I didn't see any new squadrons for the ImpSquads1. But, I've seen reviews of a Black Squadron TIE Fighter unit, as well as Biggs Darklighter X-Wing squadron for the Rebels. How does one get ahold of those cards? Were they tournament prizes or con-exclusives?
Secondly, I like checking out the scale of the different ships to see how close or far apart they are to one another, and I made an interesting discovery: according to Legends lore on Wookiepedia, the HWK-290 is 29 meters long, and is effectively a cargo hauler. The Moldy Crow X-Wing model is more of a roomy fighter, and nowhere near 29 meters in length at 1/270. Now, I've already noted some minor scale discrepancies among other models, like Slave 1 looking a little too large for being 21.5 meters long. The die-cast metal toys they sold a while back are a little more in line, in my opinion, but it's only a matter of a cm or so. Something I can forgive.
But, the HWK-290 is almost in line with the undersized CR-90 Corvette. While I don't mind imagining the Moldy Crow as actually being nothing more than an oversized fighter/bomber like the Havoc, I am tempted to mod the one I have for deployment with my growing 1/500 scale fleet, and putting it on a big-ship base to be deployed with the 1/500 CR-90 I have. Although, I could leave it on the fighter base, as an indication of the ship's agility.
Don't know what I'll do about deploying it with the regular scale figures. Kitbashing feels like a lot of work, but, scale is one of my little manias.
Any suggestions?
Corellion Conflict is a MUST buy.
If you are an Imperial Player, you get the Black Squadron, Gamma Squadron, a few others, as well as new Objective Cards.
http://starwars-armada.wikia.com/wiki/The_Corellian_Conflict_-_Epic_Campaign_Expansion
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Actually, the main thing I love for Imp players out of CC is Tempest Squadron: for 1 point more it adds Bomber to the TIE/AD keyword. The named AD ace, Zertik Strom, is also good for being an Escort with double Braces that isn't Darth Vader (and destined for better things). For a proper Rhymerball, you need at least one source of Escort anyway, and having it be a Bomber as well means that it's contributing to the mayhem. Saber Squadron (Interceptor) is the only source of Snipe the Imps get, and Ciena Ree is super, SUPER hard to kill; she counts as obstructed no matter what. Captain Jonus is really good with some fleet-heavy builds, he lets friendly ships that are targeting a ship within Range 1 of him turn a die to an Accuracy. Pop goes the flotilla! The standard TIE guys aren't all that great. Black Squadron gets Escort, which is pretty terrible on a 3-hull squadron, and Valen Rudor can't be attacked if you could attack another squadron instead - which works around the Counter keyword, but isn't all that great otherwise. He is cheap though.
The campaign itself...
Is pretty bare-bones and minimalistic, but that isn't bad. The main problem is that once a side gets an advantage, it starts snowballing really fast. There's no underdog tables like more established games have (Bloodbowl) and so if a player is doing badly or even just gets unlucky, then he will continue to do badly. I think if i were to homebrew something it'd be for that eventuality.
It also requires a fair number of players - and you want odd numbers on each side, NOT even, so at least 6 players, with at least 600 points of ships and squadrons each.
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Actually, the main thing I love for Imp players out of CC is Tempest Squadron: for 1 point more it adds Bomber to the TIE/AD keyword. The named AD ace, Zertik Strom, is also good for being an Escort with double Braces that isn't Darth Vader (and destined for better things). For a proper Rhymerball, you need at least one source of Escort anyway, and having it be a Bomber as well means that it's contributing to the mayhem. Saber Squadron (Interceptor) is the only source of Snipe the Imps get, and Ciena Ree is super, SUPER hard to kill; she counts as obstructed no matter what. Captain Jonus is really good with some fleet-heavy builds, he lets friendly ships that are targeting a ship within Range 1 of him turn a die to an Accuracy. Pop goes the flotilla! The standard TIE guys aren't all that great. Black Squadron gets Escort, which is pretty terrible on a 3-hull squadron, and Valen Rudor can't be attacked if you could attack another squadron instead - which works around the Counter keyword, but isn't all that great otherwise. He is cheap though.
The campaign itself...
Is pretty bare-bones and minimalistic, but that isn't bad. The main problem is that once a side gets an advantage, it starts snowballing really fast. There's no underdog tables like more established games have (Bloodbowl) and so if a player is doing badly or even just gets unlucky, then he will continue to do badly. I think if i were to homebrew something it'd be for that eventuality.
It also requires a fair number of players - and you want odd numbers on each side, NOT even, so at least 6 players, with at least 600 points of ships and squadrons each.
But you forgot all the COOL new Objective cards :D
Planetary ION cannons is great for an Imperial Force that also has an Interdictor as a way to help funnel them Rebel Scum to where YOU want them to come in.
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars-armada/images/8/89/Swm25-planetary-ion-cannon.png/revision/latest?cb=20161119100846)
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...{R}ealize that the 29 meter EU size is a faulty one coming from an old RPG book written before any actual information came out about the ship...
the X-wing version is the accurate size, according to Lucasfilm. (which is who provided the scaling information to FFG)
See, without having looked anything up, that was what I had initially assumed - that it was a big fighter with ample leg room. Thanks for clearing that up. Still, I might get a second one now to use as a 29 meter deluxe version with my 1/500 scale stuff. ;)
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Corellion Conflict is a MUST buy.
If you are an Imperial Player, you get the Black Squadron, Gamma Squadron, a few others, as well as new Objective Cards.
http://starwars-armada.wikia.com/wiki/The_Corellian_Conflict_-_Epic_Campaign_Expansion
Ooooh. I had been eye-balling this for reasons to fill out on Armada. Now I have stronger reasons to pick it up.
Thanks.
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What's the average cost someone would spend to start getting into these two games?
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you can get into Xwing for less than $100. its about $40 (or less, on some online stores) for the starter set (either classic trilogy or Force Awakens), and the individual fighter expansions run $15 to $20, of which you will probably need 2-3. the Large packs (two fighter sets, or the freighters/shuttles) run about $30-40 but large ships easily can replace 2-3 individual fighters in terms of points, and the large packs (the Aces, Veterans, and heroes packs) usually have a ton of useful cards you can use to boost ships from the other expansions.
that will cover Imperial or Rebel.
Scum is actually the most difficult to get into, since you need the starter for the rules, the Most wanted set ($40) which gives you the core of the faction and 3 ships, and another 2-3 individual fighter expansions (and Scum is large ship heavy)
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The detail of the miniatures are great for the price.
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Whereas, I recall getting into Armada costing between 60-80 for the core box. I can't recall which I spent on it, and might have gotten lucky from the shop I bought it from. It's currently going on Amazon for around 70 USD. That gets you:
-Imperials-
1 Victory Class Star Destroyer
6 Tie Fighter Squadrons
-Rebellion-
1 CR-90 Corvette
1 Nebulon Frigate
4 X-Wing Squadrons
From there, you have Squadron Packs at around $20 US each, and individual ship expansions starting as low as $20 and going up from there. I believe the Imperial Star Destroyer has been $40 in any of the stores I've been to.
While the big ships look nice, the squadrons come unpainted. They look good painted, and coming unpainted means you can have fun customizing them. Imagine having a Gold marked X-Wing Squadron, or blue or green, instead of the ever present red.
Tertially, both games come with lots of cards, and you may want sleeves to protect them and maybe sheets to contain them. This isn't as big a hurdle as it might seem, since most 50 sleeve packs are around $2-3 apiece, and they do have small-card sheets. A store near me sells individual sheets for a quarter - when they have them.
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Wow.. Seems rather pricy. But then again it seemed that way for 10$ for a small lance pack of battle tech back in the day.
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Wow.. Seems rather pricy. But then again it seemed that way for 10$ for a small lance pack of battle tech back in the day.
Armada is about the same as 40k/Fantasy but you get everything you need to play with a painted mini (for ships) and no extra $50 rulebook that changes every few months.
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Armada is about the same as 40k/Fantasy but you get everything you need to play with a painted mini (for ships) and no extra $50 rulebook that changes every few months.
Just an FAQ and Rules clarifications to balance things out. Of course, they usually do this after a major tournament to look at the meta and see what's being OP.
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Just an FAQ and Rules clarifications to balance things out. Of course, they usually do this after a major tournament to look at the meta and see what's being OP.
And it's free.
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With Armada, it is not a bad thing.
To play, however, one MUST buy the starter. There is no alternative to this, as it is the only way to get a damage deck, and certain upgrade/unit Cards.
Everything else can be found elsewhere, Dice, measurement tools, even the Asteroid/debris field markers.
Even as someone (like myself) who only plays Imperials, I must have the starter with a Nebulon and a Corellian Corvette.
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Xwing is sorta the same way.. the starters have upgrade cards and pilots not found anywhere else, even if you buy the individual expansions for the ships involved.
thankful they are mostly the unique ones that you only can use one of during a game anyway. though the need to buy expansions you might not use the ship from to get a card you want can be annoying.
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Xwing is sorta the same way.. the starters have upgrade cards and pilots not found anywhere else, even if you buy the individual expansions for the ships involved.
thankful they are mostly the unique ones that you only can use one of during a game anyway. though the need to buy expansions you might not use the ship from to get a card you want can be annoying.
Well, there are a few Non-Unique cards that as a REBEL only Player, can only be obtained through the Starter (Imperials can get them with the Victory Star Destroyer for extras).
And some of these are pretty nice cards:
http://starwars-armada.wikia.com/wiki/Expanded_Hangar_Bay
http://starwars-armada.wikia.com/wiki/Overload_Pulse
As an Imperial player, there are a few cards that unless you buy Rebel Ships, you can't get them otherwise:
http://starwars-armada.wikia.com/wiki/Electronic_Countermeasures
http://starwars-armada.wikia.com/wiki/Enhanced_Armament (Useful for the Imperial Arquitens)
http://starwars-armada.wikia.com/wiki/H9_Turbolasers
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Xwing used to be the same, but 11 (soon to be 12) waves in there aren't many unique to the starter aside from a few pilots and some astromechs left.
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Wow.. Seems rather pricy. But then again it seemed that way for 10$ for a small lance pack of battle tech back in the day.
Where'd you find lance packs for $10? I always saw them at between $35-50 depending on the weight of the 'mechs.
Recently I did a LOT of ciphering when it came to wargames and the 'average' price to get started with a reasonable variety of PLAYABLE units in a competitive setting is between $300 and $400, retail. That isn't bare-bones, "What you need to play", but "what you need to not get curb-stomped if you play in tournaments".
Yes, that includes X-Wing too, because while you might be able to skate with a couple of blisters and the starter box in a casual setting, FFG has very intentionally split up the essential upgrade cards between factions and boxes - and you HAVE to have the cards if you're going to play in tournaments. Expertise only comes in the Heroes of the Resistance (Rebel faction), but it's practically STAPLED to Quickdraw (Imperial), one of the best Empire ships right now. Autothrusters are great for Poe Dameron and a bunch of other ships, but they ONLY come in the Starviper (Scum) blister. And Twin Laser Turret is the only Turret upgrade worth using, but while Scum uses turrets a fair bit they only come in the K-Wing (Rebel) blister.
About the cheapest wargames, on average, are Bloodbowl (about $100 provided you can print out a pitch to play on) and Malifaux ($200 will get you EVERYTHING you need for every faction but Ressurectionists). Alpha Strike isn't too bad either, unless you want metal minis...
The only wargame currently played that I left out of my calculations was Infinity; I keep meaning to try it out with my friend who owns the starter box and then get a handle on the cost. It seems like a sub-$200 game as well, but I can't make a judgment call on that.
For the sake of comparison, a Warhammer 40k army costs between $500 and $800, depending on the faction chosen. And that $500 is barely competitive and blatantly Space Maweens.
Personally, I'm pretty negative on FFG right now. Star Wars Legion irritates me to no end; what good is a ground battle game that doesn't focus on a much larger scale than the game they ALREADY HAVE in a similar scale, Imperial Assault? It's also such a blatant cashgrab that the miniatures are going to be noticeably larger than the ones for IA, meaning you have to rebuy EVERYTHING. If only they'd gone 15mm or 6mm instead, and focused on the BIG battles with lots of speeder bikes, AT-ATs, grav vehicles, maybe even strafing attacks from fighters...
But no. It just grates my cheese the wrong way.
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i never assume the person is going to go right to tournaments, so casual play is the best way to gauge entry costs. some people never go to tourney's. (like me), some people who do buck the Meta. if they are interested in tourney play, they'll be able to figure that stuff out on their own once they've played casual for awhile.
pushing hyper competitive tourney build's when introducing people to a game is counter productive to getting them interested.
and Legion is aimed more at the building and painting side of the hobby. Legion also looks to have a ruleset that is more conductive to growing into massive battles than IA.. but if they start a game pushing "you have to buy, assemble, and paint $1000+ dollars of our models to build a starter army" they are going to flat out fail to gather fans. hell, even 40K started out small scale as well.. and current 40K still pushes smaller scale forces (like killteam and/or 500pt forces) as the way to get into the game, leaving the 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500, and higher battles that look so awesome as something players build up to eventually, not as the intro level.
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i never assume the person is going to go right to tournaments, so casual play is the best way to gauge entry costs. some people never go to tourney's. (like me), some people who do buck the Meta. if they are interested in tourney play, they'll be able to figure that stuff out on their own once they've played casual for awhile.
pushing hyper competitive tourney build's when introducing people to a game is counter productive to getting them interested.
*sigh* why is that always the strawman? "Pushing hyper competitive builds..." when what a person is trying to do is steer new players away from the bottom 10% of models - a problem exacerbated by the X-Wing dev's focus on driving sales and overpowering the newest stuff. I'd love the game to be one where you could fly B-Wings and TIE/Interceptors competitively instead of random EU ship that no one has cared about in a decade - that's why I play Heroes of the Aturi Cluster by the way - but it's a serious negative play experience for relatively experienced wargamers (not even noobs, people who like wargames!) to get their heads kicked in constantly because of ignorance. It's one of the reasons that I have grown to hate Warmachine, too - all too often it's some minor rule that you didn't know about or forgot or didn't fully understand the interactions of that leads to a warcaster assassination and game loss.
and Legion is aimed more at the building and painting side of the hobby. Legion also looks to have a ruleset that is more conductive to growing into massive battles than IA.. but if they start a game pushing "you have to buy, assemble, and paint $1000+ dollars of our models to build a starter army" they are going to flat out fail to gather fans. hell, even 40K started out small scale as well.. and current 40K still pushes smaller scale forces (like killteam and/or 500pt forces) as the way to get into the game, leaving the 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500, and higher battles that look so awesome as something players build up to eventually, not as the intro level.
So, massive land battle in Star Wars. Close your eyes and imagine it. What do you see?
Were AT-ATs involved? They should have been. They're iconic for a reason.
At Legion's scale, an AT-AT is going to be upwards of two feet long and even taller than that. There's NO WAY that is a reasonable play piece at that size, and I can't imagine what the price point would be... and that's one AT-AT. Where's the half-dozen that a Star Destroyer carries, as well as AT-ST escorts and speeder bike flankers and a phalanx of storm troopers? THAT'S massive land battle. THAT would be nice in a 15mm game.
Frankly, the only reason that Games Workshop can get away with titans in 40k scale is because if someone's still playing 40k in this day and age they have no qualms about flushing money away.
What are the expansions going to be for Legion? Sandtroopers? Snowtroopers? Scouttroopers? Stormtroopers with Hello Kitty visors? And on the Rebel side, once they go through regular trooper, commando, and wookie, what are they going to add? Ewoks? Yub nub.
Or else it'll be just like Imperial Assault, with tons of different character packs - and I'm willing to wager that they'll be the exact same sculpts as IA, just upscaled to fit the new mandatory base size.
At 15mm, there'd be LOTs of options - vehicles? Fighters? Formations? Even old Clone Wars stuff? Yeah, that would have been great.
Plus, the Rune Wars system is mediocre at best. It ain't bad, just meh. This is just a lazy combining of a game system they already made (so they don't have to playtest anything new!) with a franchise that they don't think they've fully exploited yet.
I don't mind when a company reaches into my wallet. What I DO mind is when they do so without even using half of their ass in the process and still expect me to smile about it. It's making me look askance at spending more money on Armada, a game I do legitimately enjoy.
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If you're not planning to play in tournaments you don't need the cards (use an online squadron builder). I think there still are a fair number of people buying sets to get the cards and then selling off the ships cheap. A friend of mine got IIRC about 20 ships for $50!
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its not a strawman. all those builds your saying are "vital" and "must haves"? are from and designed to be competitive with the very top players in the national tournaments.. its like expecting someone just starting a sport to immediately go into competition for the olympic gold medal. the Tourney scene is incredibly competitive, thanks to people who insist on using the latest abuse-every-loophole builds. that is one of the reasons they always release a FAQ after the tourney's.. because that competitive nature means that lots of odd synergies, rules questions, and loopholes get found and exposed, revealing the stuff that makes the game unbalanced.
and expecting new players, who might not even know if they'll enjoy the game, to go into that deep end right off the bat, with the resulting financial investment? is a good way to kill a game. new players should always be brought in as casual play, playing with what they find interesting and fun.. even if it isn't optimized or competitive.
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its not a strawman. all those builds your saying are "vital" and "must haves"? are from and designed to be competitive with the very top players in the national tournaments.. its like expecting someone just starting a sport to immediately go into competition for the olympic gold medal. the Tourney scene is incredibly competitive, thanks to people who insist on using the latest abuse-every-loophole builds. that is one of the reasons they always release a FAQ after the tourney's.. because that competitive nature means that lots of odd synergies, rules questions, and loopholes get found and exposed, revealing the stuff that makes the game unbalanced.
and expecting new players, who might not even know if they'll enjoy the game, to go into that deep end right off the bat, with the resulting financial investment? is a good way to kill a game. new players should always be brought in as casual play, playing with what they find interesting and fun.. even if it isn't optimized or competitive.
Maybe you missed the part where I was said those prices were FOR tournament players, not casual just get started playing? That's the part that you strawmanned me on; you immediately leapt to the worst interpretation (that I'm a hardcore, only care about winning tournaments player and that's exactly the sort of thing that I push in the people I demo to) and it did you no favor in my eye.
X-Wing isn't too bad in the getting started department - maybe $100 all told for a starter and a few blisters if you want to go Imperial or Rebel. It's worse for Scum, of course, because they can't use the ships in the starter yet still need to buy it. Armada IS bad in the getting started department - you're looking at $200, $250 minimum for a reasonably sized fleet, and it doesn't help that you NEED an extra set of dice because the Armada box doesn't include enough even for its OWN stuff.
The best game for getting started and tournament play is, amusingly enough considering our forum, the Battletech box for Alpha Strike. There's a lot you can do just straight out of the box for $60, and spending $100 can get you pretty much whatever you require. It's a shame the minis themselves are so boringly posed, but that's not terribly hard to fix.
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then why bring it up at all, in a discussion of the prices to get started in the game? or were you just looking to troll?
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Where'd you find lance packs for $10? I always saw them at between $35-50 depending on the weight of the 'mechs.
That was the cost i spent back in 1990-92 time frame out in Fresno Ca...
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Games are expensive, and games like armada are expensive because of all the stuff extra to play it.
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then why bring it up at all, in a discussion of the prices to get started in the game? or were you just looking to troll?
Because there's a beginning point (cost to get started) and an end point (cost to play competitively), and not mentioning both of those points would be dishonest?
It's like saying, "Well, all you REALLY need is this one $85 Space Marine box that has one squad, a Dreadnaught, and a Commander" without mentioning that play at the (in theory) tested and balanced size requires at least four times that; and that's an absolute bare, inflexible minimum that will get its ass handed to it on the regular.
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except that again, that assumes that everyone goes in for the Tourney scene. and that everyone builds the "meta' builds, instead of working out something of their own using what they have. or sticking to more casual play.
when you talk about the costs to get into a hobby, you always focus on casual play because that is what the new player is going to want to do first, generally, and it is the minimum cost. competitive tourney scene is very much a maximum cost, which is basically infinite.. in theory the player could buy a hundred of every expansion, even if playing casual. the maximum cost is literally "infinite" and thus pointless to discuss. no one is required to go to tourney's or to only build meta-lists.. so why bring it up unless the new player expresses interest in that type of play? and even then, you need to approach it from a more inviting and friendly stance than complaining about how expensive a good meta-build is.
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except that again, that assumes that everyone goes in for the Tourney scene. and that everyone builds the "meta' builds, instead of working out something of their own using what they have. or sticking to more casual play.
How many wargaming players have you met that aren't interested in tournament play? I don't mean hardcore, dive deep into the metagame where if it ain't in the top 10% it ain't worth playing flip a table when they start losing, but not being interested in bringing an army to play against a bunch of people and have a day enjoying themselves with people who share their unique hobby?
I've been wargaming for 25 years now and I can count the number of players who asked about buying into a wargame but only for 'casual' play on the fingers of one foot.
Okay, that's an exaggeration, especially with X-Wing - people will buy the models just for decoration and collecting, THEN get interested in the game - but generally speaking people will be interested if you mention tournaments and a day spent around other geeks just like you.
Where that interest gets crushed is if there's a widespread imbalance in the game, and what you like and spent money on is awful, requiring you to buy more than that. THEN people will be more interested in casual play, because tournament play isn't fun and costs too much.
I mean, that's what I like about Heroes of the Aturi Cluster. You're playing X-Wing WITH your friends, against an impersonal AI, with missions that are interesting, require teamwork, and favor 60% of the game instead of that top 10%. I personally always fly an HWK-290, callsign White Mage, that's all about supporting people.
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Quite a few to be honest. Most of the gamers i knew when i lived in the UK who were WH40K players only did it for the fun, not to get into tournies.
Same with those stateside i started meeting int he early to mid 90s for btech..
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If only they'd gone 15mm or 6mm instead, and focused on the BIG battles with lots of speeder bikes, AT-ATs, grav vehicles, maybe even strafing attacks from fighters...
If only. I would love 6 or even 8mm right now. Would be nice to have little pilot characters to put next to grounded fighters. I was hoping that with X-Wing being consistently scaled (with only one or two exceptions), they would end up doing that across the board with a ground combat game that could see ground attacks from fighter craft.
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except that again, that assumes that everyone goes in for the Tourney scene. and that everyone builds the "meta' builds, instead of working out something of their own using what they have. or sticking to more casual play.
when you talk about the costs to get into a hobby, you always focus on casual play because that is what the new player is going to want to do first, generally, and it is the minimum cost. competitive tourney scene is very much a maximum cost, which is basically infinite.. in theory the player could buy a hundred of every expansion, even if playing casual. the maximum cost is literally "infinite" and thus pointless to discuss. no one is required to go to tourney's or to only build meta-lists.. so why bring it up unless the new player expresses interest in that type of play? and even then, you need to approach it from a more inviting and friendly stance than complaining about how expensive a good meta-build is.
But, it never hurts to have someone point out where it might lead, if you decide to go that way. Besides, Some of us have the collectors bug, and we can probably end up fielding competitive if we wanted by dint of 'catching them all'.
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Gents, sorry for the resurrection of the thread but FFG has announced (via their Inflight Briefing at GenCon) that the SSD will be coming to Armada this year...for $200.
Also, X-wing 2.0 is getting Clone Wars stuff.
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also released were PDF files with all the list building info for X-wing 2.0, with a promise to keep it up to date. proving that you don't need the App to play.
i haven't checked the Xwing forums yet, but i suspect to be underwhelmed with the amount of crow being eaten by all the people who predicted doom and gloom with no offline list building info..
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also released were PDF files with all the list building info for X-wing 2.0, with a promise to keep it up to date. proving that you don't need the App to play.
i haven't checked the Xwing forums yet, but i suspect to be underwhelmed with the amount of crow being eaten by all the people who predicted doom and gloom with no offline list building info..
No doom and gloom, though the Clone Wars announcement caused some... Off-line point lists were confirmed back when 2e was announced IIRC, or soon after in any case. Not well, meaning no big red letters anywhere noting that, but it was stated somewhere.
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A SSD for $200 for Armada. I'm intrested.
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A SSD for $200 for Armada. I'm intrested.
Some guys on the FFG forums complain its too small... ;D ;D ;D
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No doom and gloom, though the Clone Wars announcement caused some... Off-line point lists were confirmed back when 2e was announced IIRC, or soon after in any case. Not well, meaning no big red letters anywhere noting that, but it was stated somewhere.
yes the offline points were confirmed when it was announced. that did not stop a lot of people from trying to convince the fandom that the end was near "because you'll have to use the app they never said they'll do PDF's".
usually the people who were whining that the game didn't need a 2nd edition update, and that it was all just a scam to cheat players out of many hundreds of dollars to buy lots of update boxes to convert their entire extensive collections.
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I wonder if those same people are those who are utterly stuck to flying meta-cookie cutter lists...
I do think the conversion is a bit expensive but i'll pay that for much, much improved rules and squad-building. So many ships are utterly worthless for even casual play in 1e.
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For me, i recently got introduced to the X-wing mini's game last year, at Gencon, when one of my SW gamer buddies, was running a Heroes of the Aturi cluster game. I also played it at this year's Origins, and had a few look ins during Marcon too. So since our gaming group's looking to make it a full on thing for our group at conventions, i decided to start buying a bunch o stuff of the 1e stuff..
Though, even WITH 'used' price discounting, i've still spent a cool 400+ bucks getting all the stuff i'll need..
Imp side;
9 Tie fighters
5 bombers (inc 2 from the imp veterans packs)
4 interceptors (inc both from the aces pack)
2e of Advanced and phantoms
3 defenders (inc 2 imp vets)
1 decimator
1 lambda
1 Gozanti escort carrier
1 inquisitor's tie.
On the reb's side
3 x-wings (a 4th enroute)
3 b-wings (inc the one from reb aces)
3 a-wings (inc the one from reb aces)
4 y-wings
1 HWK-290
1 YT-1300
1 reb transport.
I have most of all of that in 3 plano boxes, a 1 inch binder with sleeves for all the upgrade cards (pilot cards are individually sleeved in a plastic, clear box). Now just need to get some foam to cut out slots for, all the big ships...
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Some guys on the FFG forums complain its too small... ;D ;D ;D
Scale is always a issue. But I'll get one just for giggles.
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I don't know if I want this or not. I have multiple models of the SSD. Form the old Miniatures game, to someone making a custom resin cast, to the big Lego one. I guess I will have one of all sizes. The miniature game was 8", this custom resin cast is 12" and the Lego one is 48" long.
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I don't know if I want this or not. I have multiple models of the SSD. Form the old Miniatures game, to someone making a custom resin cast, to the big Lego one. I guess I will have one of all sizes. The miniature game was 8", this custom resin cast is 12" and the Lego one is 48" long.
Clearly you have a gap in the 24" range.
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Clearly you have a gap in the 24" range.
I think there is a 3D printed version at that size out there.
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I think there is a 3D printed version at that size out there.
There is one on the site that is 65cm so that would be around the same size of the FFG version. More expansive and also not painted. So the FFG is a better price, still got to debate with myself if I need it or not.
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So for all you folks who do play X-wing (or armada).. Have any of you made your OWN map mats? if so, what material did you use, and did you buy it 'already star fielded' or did you use the 'spray paint on it from a tooth brush' method?
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I bought some rubber mats (used for making outdoor pools) and cut them into 90x90cm pieces. Not all that pretty and not perfectly cut but cheap and serves well enough.
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I just play directly on the table. Any issues with said table not being precisely 3'x3' are resolved with apathy.
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I bought some rubber mats (used for making outdoor pools) and cut them into 90x90cm pieces. Not all that pretty and not perfectly cut but cheap and serves well enough.
What store did you get those mats from?
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What store did you get those mats from?
Building supplies store, the kind where you buy paving stones and such things.
One thing I've heard about but haven't been able to find myself is a kind of rubber mats you place on floors to increase friction. I've heard there are thin black variants, but I have no idea where.
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I've seen yoga mats suggested for naval games, they might work here. Specifically, the ones that are shaped like puzzle pieces, so they can be easily disassembled for transport or storage without getting all curly, and can be assembled into larger areas if the game needs it.
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I've seen yoga mats suggested for naval games, they might work here. Specifically, the ones that are shaped like puzzle pieces, so they can be easily disassembled for transport or storage without getting all curly, and can be assembled into larger areas if the game needs it.
They might work,, but are they not like 2-3 inches thick?
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They might work,, but are they not like 2-3 inches thick?
The ones I've seen are around 1.5 inches thick. Check at some toy stores for small kids. I don't think that thickness will be an issue.
I've also been looking at the online Hotzmats folks. I want special hex-grids of various sizes with different terrain fields.
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Well, while out getting some bonds cashed in, i popped into a Jo-ann's fabrics, and picked up a sheet of vinyl, 54 inches by 37 inches, for 9 bucks.. Now to break out some white paint, and a tooth brush to make it a star field!
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I did not know vinyl was that cheap. Might be worth pondering a sheet myself for Gaslands games...
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Well, it was from the clearance area.. So that may have had something to do with it..
Heck, the other week when i went in, i got a block of foam 24.5" x 13" x 5", that cost 18 bucks. I cut into it, and managed to fit in my Gozanti, Rebel transport, both Lambdas, the Decimator, a YT2400 and a YT-1300, their bases, their base tokens and movement dials..
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2.0 X-wing feels great. More interesting squad building now that many more cards are viable, and most annoying stuff isn't anymore. There are things that could be better still, but fortunately FFG's ability to adjust point costs should even out most stuff even without errata.
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2.0 X-wing feels great. More interesting squad building now that many more cards are viable, and most annoying stuff isn't anymore. There are things that could be better still, but fortunately FFG's ability to adjust point costs should even out most stuff even without errata.
the fact that they incorporated a lot of the "must have' upgrades directly into the ships themselves helps there.. when you don't have to fill an EPT or Modification slot right off the bat with something just to make the ship workable, it gives you more room for playing around with new combos.
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I'm glad there is a update to X-Wing just hate the fact I have to buy the stuff all over again.
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I noticed to my amusement that i actually won quite a bit with the Rebel Conversion Kit. I never had Sabine's TIE before... but now i got pilot cards for those along with dials, i can fly four of them if i want (since Sabine's TIE's paint-job is not required).
I also calculated that using FFG's pricing, it is definitively cheaper to convert 1E expansions with a kit than to buy everything anew with 2E expansions, assuming you got nearly full collection. This is because individual 2E expansions are some 20% more expensive. And that's not counting euro-prices and local markup (like how one local store adds their own 20% on top of $1=1€ price conversion)...
I will get rid of my Resistance, First Order, and Scum ships though. With the Clone Wars factions coming, i really don't need much less interesting Resistance and FO (they're basically elite variations of Rebels and Empire), plus their conversion kits are inefficient anyway. I do like the sequel trilogy so far, but i can't see them getting any interesting ships even in EP9, and what the little of Star Wars Resistance we've seen, i really don't care to get ships based on that show.
As for Scum, they got things i like but few enough there is little point for me to get the conversion kit, rather i'll start collecting them again later on, picking only my favorites (Slave 1, Lando's Millenium Falcon, maybe Fang Fighter, TIE/mgs, StarViper).
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtzI8SvF6Lc
Bandai B Wing 1/72 Scale Model Review by Crabbok
ooooh I am so getting this. Especially with this paint scheme chart for B-Wing below
(https://pre00.deviantart.net/e0ba/th/pre/f/2014/310/1/b/b_wing_squads_by_marcusstarkiller-d85h1l3.png)
by MarcusStarkiller on Deviant Art.
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What I've been pondering is a version of the Corellian Campaign that uses X-Wing, Armada, and Star Wars Legion - trying to figure out ways to integrate battles for the other games. Possibly weighting the Armada games higher, or letting the smaller-scale games count for some other currency.
Just vague thoughts at this point, nothing serious, but it's an interesting thought experiment.
Star Wars Legion isn't... bad... but I always feel like it's such a game of attrition. Squads are so FRAIL in the game it's almost ridiculous actually using them. Overall, there's a lot of improvement over other similarly sized wargames (at a platoon+support level, versus the squad level), so I don't mind playing it even if I'd rather play something else in the 28-32mm scale.
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Looking at Armada versus X-Wing, I had kinda thought of pausing an Armada game to fight out fighter combat in X-Wing once you have all the forces determined. Once the combat is over, mark damage to survivors and resume the ship level game.
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Looking at Armada versus X-Wing, I had kinda thought of pausing an Armada game to fight out fighter combat in X-Wing once you have all the forces determined. Once the combat is over, mark damage to survivors and resume the ship level game.
Well, I was thinking more along the lines of... well... how Rogue One deployed an X-Wing squadron to bomb the hidden base, versus how they deployed Raddus' fleet for a raid in force. You might activate just the X-Wing squadron...
Hmm...
What if each player had a limited number of Activation Points, with you spending 1 point for an X-Wing or Legion attack, and 2-4 points for a fleet attack? And in order for the Imperial player to actually attack the Rebels, they have to....
Potential here, definite potential.
What I'm kinda thinking of is a campaign mode with more of a... Escalation mode built in, where you don't HAVE to own all three components (X-Wing, Armada, Legion), or if you do own some you can do smaller-scale battles in it - like say a half-size Armada or Legion battle, as those are the component size of the core sets.
That way all the players on a team could contribute, even if they don't own everything they need - there might be a couple of X-Wing players, one or two Armada players, and a single Legion player.
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Okay. I see where you're going. Less scale-ability, and more commitment of resources determining which game to play.
From there, you can have different chapters to a particular mission that require a certain game to fulfill, but aren't absolutely necessary to finishing a mission successfully by the undertaker.
I'm thinking that you might want an 'auto-resolve' option, like in the Empire at War PC game. You can still send a force to 'capture a planet' even if you don't have Legion to play out the key battle. Instead you roll dice and spend points to gamble out a quick and faceless battle and receive the final results.
What's interesting is if you want to bring in the Galactic level Rebellion board game, you could use that to set up major conflicts like the Corellian campaign. Certainly, things aren't going to be sitting still on the galactic level while a conflict is played out. Would be kind of fun to have a sudden influx of new troops when you're almost out or have some major character show up that wasn't there earlier to change the nature of the campaign.
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Gotten back into playing X-wing 2nd ed. Had a long break, didn't just have the time.
Now, gotten bunch of games in, taken part in the local scene and not just home games.
And my Separatists and Republics just arrived! And there's so much more coming xp
I think i'll wait till Wave 5 gets released and then get Wave 4 and 5 expansions at once along with some extra existing ships, namely 2-3 Y-wings, 2 Naboo fighters, 2 Nantex fighters, 2-3 Hyena bombers, extra Republic and Separatist "core sets".
Still need to sell my First Order, Resistance and Scum ships, haven't converted them nor am i really interested in them. But maybe i'll find someone willing to buy stuff in my local scene...
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Just played my first games with Republic vs/ Separatist ships (one fight with each side). We concluded that the Separatists lost the war due to their horrible luck... ;D
I mean, 4 dice attack, 4 blanks, reroll, 3 blanks - and that was one of the BETTER rounds! xp
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Just played my first games with Republic vs/ Separatist ships (one fight with each side). We concluded that the Separatists lost the war due to their horrible luck... ;D
I mean, 4 dice attack, 4 blanks, reroll, 3 blanks - and that was one of the BETTER rounds! xp
I know the feeling. Before playing a game, i was watching a Sep-Rep match. The Sep player had superb luck (better play too, i think, but a lot of luck), rolling good amount of crits with Vultures.
Of course, amusingly enough, it wouldn't have mattered to Palpatine one bit who won and who lost...
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I found a buyer for my stuff on the Facebook trade and sell group (about 50 ships) maybe two years ago. Went hard for about a year and discovered I didn’t like the game that much. Even after shipping the stuff from coast to coast the total cost for me to dabble fairly heavily in the hobby was about $100.
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Well, i don't use Facebook, makes finding buyers a tad difficult. Gotta ask people in person i suppose.
(Doesn't help that Finland has naturally much smaller scene than the US.)