Talk to me about/sell me on the Dervish.

[Breetai]

The Dervish, particularly the DV-6M  has been around since nearly the very beginning of Battletech, and is generally regarded as one of the 'classic' 55-tonners. Yet I've never really seen the appeal.  Its armour is pretty woeful, even by 3025 standards (falling on its back brings a very real chance of a rear torso breach in any location), it's not got much in the way of penetrating weaponry, and arguably has way too many rounds for its SRM-2 units - which are a weapon that generally doesn't perform too well anyway. It's not quite got the long-range punch to be a fire-support unit, but its lack of focus tends to make it mediocre as a main-line 'Mech (again, especially considering the armour).

Can anyone tell me why they like this unit, and how they find it is used most effectively? Because I'm drawing a blank.

[Diablo48]

Well, it does move 5/8/5 and can deliver 20 LRMs a round which is perfectly respectable in its era and takes some of the load off the armor which is a very good thing given how thin it is.  The extra ton of SRM ammo also lets it pack Infernos which is very good given the relative prevalence of vehicles in that timeframe as well, and they give it good close quarters firepower in conjunction with the lasers so it can take care of itself if things get messy and let it close after it runs out of LRM ammo and the enemy is hopefully running out of armor.  It could definitely be improved, but it is still a competent fire support unit that is more than capable of taking care of itself which is not something to disregard.

A good comparison point is the Griffin which manages all of one point more of sustained ranged damage once you factor in heat management, looses some range with the PPC, and cannot afford to move.  This makes the two designs about equal at throwing damage downrange with maybe a very slight advantage to the Dervish.  The difference is really the armor vs. the short range firepower, and I am not sure the Griffin really does any better because it is totally helpless in close combat so the enemy can chew through its armor at their leisure if they close.  The Dervish will definitely go down faster if it gets dragged into close combat, but it will put some serious damage into the other guy before it does and could very well wreck them given that they will have already taken damage from its LRMs and allies.

[martian]

The Dervish, particularly the DV-6M  has been around since nearly the very beginning of Battletech, and is generally regarded as one of the 'classic' 55-tonners. Yet I've never really seen the appeal.  Its armour is pretty woeful, even by 3025 standards (falling on its back brings a very real chance of a rear torso breach in any location), it's not got much in the way of penetrating weaponry, and arguably has way too many rounds for its SRM-2 units - which are a weapon that generally doesn't perform too well anyway. It's not quite got the long-range punch to be a fire-support unit, but its lack of focus tends to make it mediocre as a main-line 'Mech (again, especially considering the armour).

Can anyone tell me why they like this unit, and how they find it is used most effectively? Because I'm drawing a blank.

It's important to know that in 3025 era the Dervish had some advantages when compared with the second common medium fire support 'Mech - the Trebuchet.
1) Dervish had Jump Jets. This itself is often a serious pro.
2) Dervish had more armor covering its side torsos with ammo.
3) Dervish had a few points more of internal structure.

Comparable WTH- Whitworth and HBK-4J Hunchback were slower.

How to use it:
Support your lancemates with your LRMs. Use JJs to position yourself on some wooded hill.
In the moment when your LRM ammo bins are empty, start brawling and attempt to finish damaged enemy 'Mechs or at least relieve some pressure from your lancemates. Don¨t forget that you have JJs, so jump whenever needed.
Dervish has two ammo bins which means that you can fill one ammo bin with standard SRM missiles and the other ammo bin with Infernos. 3025 were often hot-running with their Single Heat Sinks, so possible 8-points heat spike was something what wasn't taken lightly.

Of course the Dervish is no Catapult, Archer or Longbow, but it can do its job.

[Frabby]

The Dervish is a victim of rule changes. In ye olde days, the Inferno missile rules were different. They were straight murder on vehicles and infantry. And most importantly, they stacked. Drawback: They could only be launched from SRM-2 launchers, not from the bigger ones. That made SRM-2 rather valuable, and units with two SRM-2 even more so.
With today's Inferno rules where any SRM rack can fire them, the SRM-2 is of greatly diminished value.

[Ruger]

It is an INCREDIBLE support unit to the rest of its lancemates, and it can last A LOT longer in a firefight than you'd think...

Case in point, the first time I took one out, it lasted 22 rounds in a lance on lance fight, and only died after it had lost a leg, and had most of its armor shot off...I still had ammo in all weapons, and had even done a couple of alpha strikes (both times on two different targets) during the battle...

That battle proved this 'Mech to me in ways that few others have proven themselves to me...it usually will not kill 'Mechs on its own, but between its movement rate, and its credible long and short range weapons, it is impressive as a support 'Mech for its lancemates...you can do a lot with it that you wouldn't think you could do...

Ruger

[Molossian Dog IIC]

It is not a Mech that pilots might really love, but sure a favourite among commanders.

It is flexible in terms of engagement ranges and has the golden standard of Mech top speeds. (in its era of course) It has ammo bins worth of the name and indirect fire capability. It can go almost anywhere due to 5 JJs. It can fit in almost any kind of lance. Wether you need a scout lance leader, a flanking force, a support for main line fighters or bodyguard for fire support units. It will almost always find itself in a position where it can contribute something. It can tackle with Mechs, vehicles, infantry and even some air units. It can also work in conjunction with these kinds of units.

Massing it in SL-like one Mech type lances or even companies (which was common IIRC) nets you a viable force, easily deployed anywhere and with a distinct 2-phase standard tactic (first bombardment or lurmishing then going in for the kill) yet allows other approaches as well if the circumstances call for it.

It is a Mech you can rely on. Planners and commanders love that kind of stuff.

[Nightgaun7]

Massing it in SL-like one Mech type lances or even companies (which was common IIRC) nets you a viable force, easily deployed anywhere and with a distinct 2-phase standard tactic (first bombardment or lurmishing then going in for the kill) yet allows other approaches as well if the circumstances call for it.

Sounding an awful lot like a dirty Regulan there.

[Molossian Dog IIC]

Dirty to the bone.  O0

But actually we hearty Regulans tried to do that with Trebs. Sad thing that the standard SW-era Treb can´t really pull it off, despite the additional LRM-tubes. Simply not enough ammunition for a long range sustained bombardment with high to-hit numbers. The TBT-7M suffers from the same problem.
The first variant really fitting to that approach is the -3C. Which became standard in the RDF. Maybe, although with a different focus, the later versions.

Hm...oh...ach...weee.

Sorry, I can´t continue with this post. I have to swoon over the perfection that is the TBT-9R.

[pensiveswetness]

and it is complimented by being teamed up with like-minded (or speed) designs. another favorite of mine...

[SteelRaven]

The Dervish is like a mini Catapult, swap the SRMs for Medium Lasers and you will see what I mean.

The DV-8D and DV-6Mr should have came along allot sooner. The Lightbriger is also a nice custom for the Solaris arenas.

[JPArbiter]

the Dervish is the F-15 of the Battletech Universe.  while not fancy it gets the job done.  Cheaper then a Catapult or an Archer, it can fit where you need it, whether you want to support Light lances or provide a flanking force for assault lances, and provide respectable  firepower downrange.  sure for 55 tons it does not have the raw firepower of the Griffin, but it can outgun the Shadow Hawk and Wolverine at intermediate range.

the oft criticized second ton of SRM ammo does permit the use of Infernos, making the utility against armor and infantry even further.

[grimlock1]

The things that stuck in my mind after using one were the speed and depth of the ammo bins.  I had a Griffin and Dervish zipping zipping up and down the map, staying at long range, walking to generate +2 TMMs, so the other guys had to throw 10's or better.  When enemy's  LRM bins clicked dry or when the rest of the company drew off their PPC flingers, I would close to medium range and light the other team up.

[Rags]

The DV-5M was 'mech I gave little thought to for many years. I owned a few Dervish miniatures and would generally use them if I was playing Davion in larger company or battalion sized games (usually using Jedko's old Battlelance rules) as part of medium weight fire support lances or a lower weight unit in a heavy fire lances. The 'mech perform adequately but never seemed to shine.

My opinion of the Dervish changed when I randomly assigned one for a mechwarrior second edition campaign. Set on Solaris VII, our cooperative was competing in solo, tag team and lance matches. I found that when push to its limits the DV-5M could engage 70 tonners like the WHM-6R and ARC-2R with a reasonable chance of success (the GM was rolling his dice openly, so dice weren't being fudged). The Dervish quickly became my favorite 'mechs from TRO:3025.

In 3025 you have more LRMs than anything except a dedicated fire support 'mech, your usable short range firepower just below dedicated strikers like the Jenner, P-Hawk or Vulcan-5T and your mobility is only bettered those 'mechs where high mobility is a major factor of their design.

The cost of giving all these capabilities to an introductory level 'mech is the inability to effectively do all three things at the same time. I assume most people here are familiar with the concept of bracket firing. Since a full 5 hex jump will generate 50% of the heat you can generate in a turn the DV-5M essential has a third choice. During your turn can fire an effective short range bracket, or an effective long range bracket, or you can have above average mobility. You can combine two options at the cost of moderate heat gain and in desperation all three at the cost of significant heat gain.   

Some people may be tempted to dismiss such a generalist nature as a weakness, since it means any specialised design will be able out perform the Dervish. There is no standard best tactic for the DV-5M, the trick is to identify the areas where the opposing units are weak and then exploit the weakness. Since you have no significant weakness (excepting the weak rear armour and arguably the locations of your ammo) it limits the gains your opponent can make at those times when they are controlling the flow of the battle.

55 tons seems to be a nice sweet spot for this type of design. The Quickdraw attempts to have similar capabilities at 5 tons heavier, however the increased jumpjet weight for a 60 tonner wipes out the gains from having the larger chassis.

[JPArbiter]

There is a reason the Dervish is part of the AFFS "Holy Trinity" of Medium Mechs for the AFFS. (alongside the Enforcer and Centurion)

You can deploy one almost anywhere, have it fit in the lace it is assigned to and slice right into your enemy when you need it to.

[WarGod]

its a jumping 55 tonner, with a 5/8/5 and two lrm batteries in the SW era whats not to love? 
Latters models do much the same.
I do love the MML variant. 
replacing the SRMS with medium lasers was a wise idea.
How ever I did very bad things things with a dervish a few times.  Expend the LRM load, then jump and go mix it up with medium lasers, and inferno srms.   

on a side not I had a dervish/ centurion team hold back a heavy lance by its self. 

The dervish is one of the best "team player" mech around.  might not be the MVP, but its does rack up a lot of assist.

[VhenRa]

Its also one of the few Mechs with no poor variants. Every variant seems to be a workable Mech, with a niche it can play to.

[Diamondshark]

It can put a respectable amount of LRMs downrange, can keep up with a Griffin, and has a brutal short-range armament if you aren't afraid to push your heat scale a little. Best of all, it can pack bot Infernos for dealing with vehicles/burning a forest as needed or standard ammo for doing standard damage.

[JPArbiter]

Its also one of the few Mechs with no poor variants. Every variant seems to be a workable Mech, with a niche it can play to.

every variant is a "Reasonable upgrade"  making it hard pressed to want to use an older version when a new one is avaliable.

[Auren]

I fail to see how that's a problem.

[JPArbiter]

I was not trying to present it as a problem.

[Rage]

Sadly, it's apparently a problem in-universe, seeing as they had to both turn it into an expensive baby Catapult and try and replace it with the hilariously under-armored Hellspawn.

[FedSunsBorn]

Yeah, I think I remember reading in one of the novels about how Dervishes were being sold surplus due to low sales and "newer" designs. I want to say it was one of the stand along novels during the Capellan St. Ives War but I could be mistaken. Kind of like the Kintaro design which is solid on the game board but not liked at all in universe.

[SteelRaven]

Sad it didn't get the same in-universe loyalty as the Centurion and Hunchback but then again, even those two mechs are being replaced. 

[VhenRa]

Sadly, it's apparently a problem in-universe, seeing as they had to both turn it into an expensive baby Catapult and try and replace it with the hilariously under-armored Hellspawn.

Eh, the Baby Catapult was a transitory design to the 9D, with it's quad MML-5s.

[JPArbiter]

Sad it didn't get the same in-universe loyalty as the Centurion and Hunchback but then again, even those two mechs are being replaced.

by the Centurion Omnimech and the new and improved Hunchback

[SteelRaven]

by the Centurion Omnimech and the new and improved Hunchback

That's what I meant. The Mad Cat III may be the new baby Catapult minus the jump jets but the Dervish probably still more common for that niche at less than half the cost.   

[WarGod]

a omni dervish would be awesome.  as I stated before the dervish is a excellent team player mech

[DarkISI]

The Dervish is like a mini Catapult, swap the SRMs for Medium Lasers and you will see what I mean.

The DV-8D and DV-6Mr should have came along allot sooner. The Lightbriger is also a nice custom for the Solaris arenas.

The 6Mr was actually based on a Dervish variant I was running in an RPG campaign a few years back.
The original RPG variant was Succession Wars tech, so it had a brace of standard medium lasers in each arm, instead of the ML+SRM combo. The 6Mr is, what my character would have upgraded his variant, had I not moved away and we would have carried the mercenary unit into the clan invasion era.

Personally I prefer the 9D, though. 4 ER Medium Lasers slaved to a Targeting Computer and 4 MML-5 with a load of Infernos in the CT slot? Death to everybody!  [fiddle]

[martian]

The 6Mr was actually based on a Dervish variant I was running in an RPG campaign a few years back.
The original RPG variant was Succession Wars tech, so it had a brace of standard medium lasers in each arm, instead of the ML+SRM combo. The 6Mr is, what my character would have upgraded his variant, had I not moved away and we would have carried the mercenary unit into the clan invasion era.

Armament of DV-6Mr Dervish and APL-3T Apollo is almost identical. Of course, speed and movement profile are different.

[DarkISI]

Armament of DV-6Mr Dervish and APL-3T Apollo is almost identical. Of course, speed and movement profile are different.

Never used any variant of the Apollo. Pure coincidence. But a nice catch. :)