3025 era match-up: Goliath vs Griffin

[Kit deSummersville]

No, it's a Goliath, not a Balius.

[Nahuris]

Hey, I just bought a large steel bat, please, let me get in one or two hits.......

Nahuris

[Black_Knyght]

So there have been a number of comments on what the Goliath SHOULD have done, but what about the Griffin?

If YOU were the Griffin pilot, and knew what the Goliath pilot should be expected to do (as repeatedly commented above), and knew that you were out-classed from the starting gate by a mech with a better BV, what would you do to beat it?

What tactics would you use with the Griffin to beat an opponent who will likely just back into a corner and wait for you? Could you beat the Goliath if it did this?

[SteelRaven]

... are we going to bring this up once a month?

OK, everyone who disagreed with how the example matched play out, run your own match and tell everyone how it turns out. And I mean a actual match, no Megamech bot on easy.

[Kit deSummersville]

If you're the Griffin, you have to use your advantages. Attack on the sides and retreat if you lose initiative. It's going to be a boring game, but only move in when you have the advantage. If he backs into a corner, use mobility to dash in and out, keeping the modifiers as high as possible. Outside of the machine guns you have the same ranged damage potential as the Goliath, so it's your movement vs. his armor.

[SCC]

OK, I've got an older set of rules around here somewhere where Quads, or more precisely their altered stats, are optional, how does the situation change if the Goliath is a bi-ped?

[Black_Knyght]

... are we going to bring this up once a month?

OK, everyone who disagreed with how the example matched play out, run your own match and tell everyone how it turns out. And I mean a actual match, no Megamech bot on easy.

Sorry, didn't realize this would be a sore subject. I was just legitimately curious how the pro-like players here might have handled the inferior position of running the Griffin. It's easy to say what the Goliath should've done, but the Griffin presented the need for a more interesting set of tactics.

[SteelRaven]

Sorry, didn't realize this would be a sore subject. I was just legitimately curious how the pro-like players here might have handled the inferior position of running the Griffin. It's easy to say what the Goliath should've done, but the Griffin presented the need for a more interesting set of tactics.

Not really sore (sorry if I came off that way) I just don't want this to drag out because of one match. No sense questioning the results of one game when it's the scenario it self that was the topic to begin with.

[AndyJ]

Questions:

1. What if the Griffin went straight in from the side arc (probably using a jump) and straight out punched the Goliath twice a round if it wins initiative, and stay at the below LRM minimum but inside PPC range band otherwise?

2. Can the Goliath kick something that is not in its front or rear arcs?

[Hellraiser]

How do you place yourself at that perfect range when the Goliath moves after you?

This is the Issue. 

The Griffin MUST win Initiative to be able to hit w/o getting hit back.

It also NEEDS wooded terrain to make it harder to hit because if the Goliath can get close to hit we are talking a mean kick. 

Otherwise just walking to a perfect 6 hexes & Alpha Striking for more Damage & Less Overheat than the Griffin can dream of having.

Ideally the Goliath should avoid all trees & instead find a Level-1 hill in the open.  Put it between the Griffin & himself & watch as all 4 legs are in cover.

[SteelRaven]

I don't recall anyone one saying that the Goliath did not have a advantage, it' has a 25 ton advantage.

[YingJanshi]

Can't really comment without running it myself (,lack of another player precludes that at the moment, but I will say one thing about the Goliath: it has a serious handicap in that it cannot torso twist, but that's slightly alleviated by the fact that it canmove diagonally without facing changes. Sure, it doesn't make up for no torso twist, but used smartly it can be quite a help.
Also to answer a question above, yes, quads can kick directly behind them.

But in the end, I'd still have to give it to the Griffin: its marginal advantage in speed and maneuverability of the JJ, gives it a bit more flexibility than the Goliath possesses. It would take a patient player, but I'd say 2 out of 3 games would go to the Griffin.