Author Topic: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!  (Read 99046 times)

ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
« Reply #990 on: 21 July 2023, 04:22:22 »
Branch of service what do you mean primitive mechs? They are antiques that were used in desperate times and will be thinned out for use by Planetary Militias or sold to the Deep Periphery. I don't see any more use for them than that in these times when the enemy comes to you with an entire Regiment of Clan Tech and more Clanners mechs in the other regiments and you have to see the Merc List that has more clanner mechs than any successor state.
The Primitives are turning their page of history

Agreed. The Primitives should be sold to minor Periphery worlds or just recycled to advanced technology.

If they could give Fronc such an advanced tech base just to fight pirates, it makes sense that the Hegemony could at least standardize their armed forces at standard technology or better.

Weirdo

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Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
« Reply #991 on: 21 July 2023, 10:03:13 »
I would hope that they would at least stick around in militias or household guard units or even as trainers, rather than telling folks who like a bit of variety in their tech levels to either stay in older eras or shove it.
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Adacas

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Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
« Reply #992 on: 21 July 2023, 11:19:07 »
I would hope that they would at least stick around in militias or household guard units or even as trainers, rather than telling folks who like a bit of variety in their tech levels to either stay in older eras or shove it.

It is what I already said for this time they should be in the role of trainers or in the hands of militias or Private Guards of Noble Houses, but they will gradually disappear over time, the RL Mechs will last a little longer



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Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
« Reply #993 on: 21 July 2023, 13:15:38 »
Here's hoping the writers do not follow your plan on that last part. It'd be a damned shame for the MHAF to lose that bit of character, since it's one of the ways they're actually different from the other Periphery nations. Not much point in playing a faction that's the same as everyone else.
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Martius

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Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
« Reply #994 on: 21 July 2023, 13:42:44 »
I like my hordes of Primitive/Indie Mechs. I hope they stay.

I also hope the Marian Hegemony survives the Canopian Crusade and is allowed to show some of its uniqueness in future again.

Adacas

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Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
« Reply #995 on: 21 July 2023, 15:38:48 »
I like my hordes of Primitive/Indie Mechs. I hope they stay.

I also hope the Marian Hegemony survives the Canopian Crusade and is allowed to show some of its uniqueness in future again.

It is that Sartris already said it several pages ago, the Primitive Mechs have their time counted and some RL models too, not all of course

jimdigris

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Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
« Reply #996 on: 21 July 2023, 16:08:47 »
I believe that the Hegemony will survive the Canopian campaign of vengeance, but in what form?
Will there be a slave uprising or mass liberation?
Will the patricians be overthrown by the plebs?
Will the MHAF be capable of any kind of offensive operation for the foreseeable future?

Adacas

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Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
« Reply #997 on: 21 July 2023, 17:20:27 »
I believe that the Hegemony will survive the Canopian campaign of vengeance, but in what form?
Will there be a slave uprising or mass liberation?
Will the patricians be overthrown by the plebs?
Will the MHAF be capable of any kind of offensive operation for the foreseeable future?

There is nothing at all that points to a general uprising of slaves or an uprising of the Plebeians against the Patriciate, Ignatius is one of the Cesars who has given the most rights to the plebeians so I highly doubt that this will happen
The MHAF have the ability to recover and now stock up on mechs, tanks and fairly modern weapons until they buy clanner equipment so I don't see why they can't carry out attacks in one direction or another

Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
« Reply #998 on: 21 July 2023, 17:29:37 »
I believe that the Hegemony will survive the Canopian campaign of vengeance, but in what form?

Will there be a slave uprising or mass liberation?

I can see the MoC trying to stir some trouble in Alphard. But from what we saw in Empire Alone in Illyria, dont think we will see "massive slave revolts"

Will the patricians be overthrown by the plebs?
I dont remember much going on "plebs" overthrowing nobles in the rest of the universe, even when their national capitols got invaded/attacked.

Will the MHAF be capable of any kind of offensive operation for the foreseeable future?

Thats an actually good question, and it will depend on what is in Alphard when the Mary Sue Crusade arrives, and what forces will reinforce the planet.
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ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
« Reply #999 on: 22 July 2023, 01:10:33 »
The Canopians only have their two Task Forces and seem to have nothing else, not even actual supply lines for the kind of campaign you'd expect in the enemy's heartland.

Then again, Marian irregulars will be constantly harassing the Canopians while the frontline Legios stand and fight so it's unknown if they can even sustain a campaign at Alphard to the end.

jimdigris

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Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
« Reply #1000 on: 23 July 2023, 05:13:21 »
Don't forget that they can bring supplies with them.

Adacas

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Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
« Reply #1001 on: 23 July 2023, 06:07:19 »
Don't forget that they can bring supplies with them.

The amounts of supplies and food that can be carried is a low number for a long campaign unless you take a lot more ships just to load that, which means pulling them off another front.

jimdigris

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Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
« Reply #1002 on: 23 July 2023, 16:24:53 »
If the Marians can manage it, the Canopians can manage it.

DOC_Agren

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Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
« Reply #1003 on: 23 July 2023, 20:28:53 »
Logistics only matters if the authors care...   otherwise look at the Leopard and explain how that 1 of the most common unit dropships?
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Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
« Reply #1004 on: 23 July 2023, 22:14:12 »
The primitive/introtech units are probably deployed in auxilia and to shore up the front line Legions that have had massive losses of material.  I would love to see them retained along with some more refits along the lines of the Catapult, Longbow, Goliath, etc -H variants, where one or two higher tech refits are applied along with rocket launchers. This allow those units to tie into the medium range mass volleys and close range combat the Marians use mirroring Roman Legionary tactics. 

We also need the ultimate evolution of the Centurion into a full up standard tech unit. 

ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
« Reply #1005 on: 24 July 2023, 03:15:27 »
The amounts of supplies and food that can be carried is a low number for a long campaign unless you take a lot more ships just to load that, which means pulling them off another front.

Yes. It's not like the Canopians brought a lot of Mammoths, Behemoths and Mules with them. They had already gone through a few battles before starting the journey to Alphard, and the Canopian navy does not have the capacity to deploy everywhere like a Successor State or Clan navy.


jimdigris

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Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
« Reply #1006 on: 24 July 2023, 07:21:01 »
Yes. It's not like the Canopians brought a lot of Mammoths, Behemoths and Mules with them. They had already gone through a few battles before starting the journey to Alphard, and the Canopian navy does not have the capacity to deploy everywhere like a Successor State or Clan navy.
Back that up with a source, please.

ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
« Reply #1007 on: 25 July 2023, 02:44:18 »
Which one? The Canopian navy size? For all it's growth, Canopus is still a medium nation compared to the heavyweights. If they had a strong high-capacity navy, the Legios wouldn't be successful in the initial invasion of Canopian space.

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Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
« Reply #1008 on: 25 July 2023, 06:03:26 »
The Marians invaded two worlds.  Other nations like the FWL, Lyrans, and FedSuns have suffered much larger losses within the last decade and no one is saying that they can't put together a supply convoy.
All that is needed is a single Invader-class jumpship with three Mule dropships.

Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
« Reply #1009 on: 25 July 2023, 16:13:43 »
The Marians invaded two worlds.  Other nations like the FWL, Lyrans, and FedSuns have suffered much larger losses within the last decade and no one is saying that they can't put together a supply convoy.
All that is needed is a single Invader-class jumpship with three Mule dropships.

The thing is, the Inner Sphere usually combat way closer to supply lines. From Gambilion to Ballalaba (Task Force Alpha objective) and Islington (Task Force Beta objective) you have at least 5 jumps. 2 mech regiments and accompanying forces for each planet, with the final destination beign Alphard (another 3 jumps from the closer planet, beign Islington). So their final destination is 8 jumps from the closest friendly planet /2 months trip each way). Even if they can ransack and pillage the marian planets along their way, just normal repair and maintenance, feeding the troops, ammo demands and assorted personal issues will degrade the combat readiness of both task forces, and the long supply line make them very vulnerable to Marian irregulars, or even normal pirates in the zone.

Even that single Invader with 3 Mules will be in greta problems to keep supplied both forces, and will be very vurnerable to raiding. And even if they have more JS and DS, as ARR said, the MoC, even with their long asociation with the CC/Andurien, still have a medium size fleet at best, and will be hard pressed to keep a reasonable number of ships on that duty while keeping with the supply of the rest of the MAF.
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Adacas

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Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
« Reply #1010 on: 25 July 2023, 17:31:43 »
The primitive/introtech units are probably deployed in auxilia and to shore up the front line Legions that have had massive losses of material.  I would love to see them retained along with some more refits along the lines of the Catapult, Longbow, Goliath, etc -H variants, where one or two higher tech refits are applied along with rocket launchers. This allow those units to tie into the medium range mass volleys and close range combat the Marians use mirroring Roman Legionary tactics. 

We also need the ultimate evolution of the Centurion into a full up standard tech unit.

The Introtech and RL may continue to see each other for a while in auxiliary units or Militias or Provincial Forces.
As I already said, the Primitives have an expiration date according to Sartris, they will be exported, used for training or for the militias, on the front line I doubt they will be seen

ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
« Reply #1011 on: 26 July 2023, 03:35:33 »
The thing is, the Inner Sphere usually combat way closer to supply lines. From Gambilion to Ballalaba (Task Force Alpha objective) and Islington (Task Force Beta objective) you have at least 5 jumps. 2 mech regiments and accompanying forces for each planet, with the final destination beign Alphard (another 3 jumps from the closer planet, beign Islington). So their final destination is 8 jumps from the closest friendly planet /2 months trip each way). Even if they can ransack and pillage the marian planets along their way, just normal repair and maintenance, feeding the troops, ammo demands and assorted personal issues will degrade the combat readiness of both task forces, and the long supply line make them very vulnerable to Marian irregulars, or even normal pirates in the zone.

Even that single Invader with 3 Mules will be in greta problems to keep supplied both forces, and will be very vurnerable to raiding. And even if they have more JS and DS, as ARR said, the MoC, even with their long asociation with the CC/Andurien, still have a medium size fleet at best, and will be hard pressed to keep a reasonable number of ships on that duty while keeping with the supply of the rest of the MAF.

Very well said, Baldur Mekorig.

A Caelum Wing is enough to cripple one Invader resupply ship, and all that Shilone production since the Jihad will have to go to new ASF units after the MHAF had built the Legions' attached Caelum Wings to full strength.

ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
« Reply #1012 on: 26 July 2023, 03:36:49 »
The Introtech and RL may continue to see each other for a while in auxiliary units or Militias or Provincial Forces.
As I already said, the Primitives have an expiration date according to Sartris, they will be exported, used for training or for the militias, on the front line I doubt they will be seen

The Hegemony could use Primitives as booby traps and drone cannon fodder  :wink:

This is a good way to use up all the Primitives while the units that were using them are reissued with more modern units.

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Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
« Reply #1013 on: 26 July 2023, 03:47:32 »
The thing is, pseudo-supply has never been a real parameter in any battletech fiction. Let alone real supply problems.

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Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
« Reply #1014 on: 26 July 2023, 07:25:33 »
If supply was that big an issue, how did the Marians manage to pull it off over the same distance with a smaller economy while simultaneously warring with a significant chunk of the FWL?

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Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
« Reply #1015 on: 26 July 2023, 11:51:37 »
If supply was that big an issue, how did the Marians manage to pull it off over the same distance with a smaller economy while simultaneously warring with a significant chunk of the FWL?

It was much simpler, apart from the Salvage and the looting of the conquered planets (which except Gibraltar did not make any hint of resistance unlike the Marian worlds), other than that the Marians apart had Huntington, Hazeldean and Landfall as points of safe jumps under their direct rule from the Jihad and Lahti and San Nicolas as Friendlys systems which were becoming politically and culturally integrated into the Hegemony were Marik worlds that had decided to follow an independent path and had a good relationship by 3130 with the Hegemony, the same Zorn's Keep from the former worlds of Circinus.
There was even trade with Sierra, that is, there were friendly jump points for the Campaign, that later the authors skipped saying something regarding that was their decision

Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
« Reply #1016 on: 26 July 2023, 12:07:32 »
If supply was that big an issue, how did the Marians manage to pull it off over the same distance with a smaller economy while simultaneously warring with a significant chunk of the FWL?

Thing is, the attack to the Canopian planets was a much smaller thing, raids in Cohort levels that became occupations (not very sucefull), and that retreated or crumbled when face with an organized opposition. And the whole FWL scenario was much, much closer to their lines than the MoC attacks.
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In your sword I put my trust that you will honor
I will be the higher ground should you concede it
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jimdigris

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Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
« Reply #1017 on: 26 July 2023, 12:54:14 »
You still haven't quoted anything that says that they lack the ability to supply themselves properly.

Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
« Reply #1018 on: 26 July 2023, 14:02:49 »
You still haven't quoted anything that says that they lack the ability to supply themselves properly.

Mostly because we only know they just went toward Islington and Ballalaba, and not much else. I am extrapolating from the almost 40 years of BT lore about invading forces overextending themselves in enemy territory far from friendly lines. They could have no logistic support, they could have +500 magical jumpships supplying them brand new clantech mechs. At the end, it depends on the writers and the narrative direction they choose.
Oh my brother, with your courage we can conquer,
In your sword I put my trust that you will honor
I will be the higher ground should you concede it
And my body be your shield if you should need it.

jimdigris

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Re: Mars Rising - Marian Hegemony V: Barbari ite Domum!
« Reply #1019 on: 26 July 2023, 15:57:28 »
If it's all about the writers, then fan theories don't matter.