The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us

[Gaiiten]

In ISP3 there were some great speculations (and misinformation) about the Home Worlds and what happened there (WoR timeline).
A pity that WoR sourcebook was published before that, speculations among us player wouöld have run wilöd.

Giving us something similar now (some rumors, bar talks of some drunk people, captured, damaged (or maybe a coded message (we coud try to encode  ), this would be great for us starving Home Clan fanpack.

The idea of a great conflict between the Scorpions and Home Clans I like, much potential  for quite a lot of bumm-bang-bumm

[truetanker]

I know two ways to get that information...

1) Wait with baited breath for it to someday show up...

2) Or, hear me out, we create a go-fund-me account and give the proceedings to the Scorpion Writer who has in the past, wrote more about the Scorpions, Doc Swift.

Note:

Not necessary an outright Homie book, just something about the Homies... Maybe a Seeker force looking for relics that were left behind, or possible a blunt recon-in-force of the old homestead?

As if we aren't looking for anything in particular...

Auto-Scout jumpship sighting anyone?

TT

[Doc Swift]

I know a couple people who wouldn't contribute to that fund.   

[tassa_kay]

I know a couple people who wouldn't contribute to that fund.   

You sure do, but let’s not bait them in the thread, since that’s against the rules and all. ;)

On a serious note, I’d *love* for Ben Rome to be given the reins to write the next chapter of the Home Clans’ story, if and when they’re taken off the shelf again. He did such a superb job with WoR, and at least with him, there would be a greater chance of consistency with what came before.

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

I know a couple people who wouldn't contribute to that fund.   

No need bother yourself with irrelevant insignificant minority, just take the cash and start beavering away 

_{(But seriously, where do I send the cash, I need this!!!)}

[Crimson Dynamo]

Not necessary an outright Homie book, just something about the Homies... Maybe a Seeker force looking for relics that were left behind, or possible a blunt recon-in-force of the old homestead?

That's exactly what I was saying a ways up-thread. The Scorps, as the last known point of contact with the Homeworlds, make for some of the strongest possibilities plot-wise to at least drop some breadcrumbs as to what's going on. Take a few young Seekers, hearing tales of what once was, want to see Moreau's Dagger for themselves and make their way in that direction, or maybe information about a hidden antechamber beneath the Temple of the Nine Muses is rediscovered, and the contents of that chamber prompt a Scorpion Watch operation back to the Homeworlds. It doesn't need to definitively spell out what's going on there, but something that at least lets us know if the Adders, Cobras, Coyotes, and Lions still exist or not. Maybe the Scorpion JumpShip comes across the recently-shattered hulk of Sea Fox or IE vessel and bugs out when they detect multiple jump signatures deeper in-system, or they note the presence of attack satellites in a place they hadn't been previously. Something to at least infer the Homeworlds even if we can't observe them due to word of God. 

On a serious note, I’d *love* for Ben Rome to be given the reins to write the next chapter of the Home Clans’ story, if and when they’re taken off the shelf again. He did such a superb job with WoR...

Agreed to both sentiments, but does he even have a toe dipped in BT anymore?

[Nerroth]

This is pure conjecture that’s unsupported by actual canon. The only canonical word on the subject, located within the one product (OTP Hanseatic Crusade) where such conjecture would surely have been discussed, says that the colonization of these worlds was to obtain vital resources and increase their population base.

I get wanting to romanticize one’s factions and attributing this sort of thinking to them to paint them in the best light possible, and I can even see a case for it possibly being true, but it’s still just headcanon without anything in canon to actually support it.

I'm in no hurry to unduly romanticize the Scorpions: their early clampdowns in Nueva Castile, the disasters they triggered on Kampen and Bruges, plus the brutality meted out by Mu Galaxy on Tomalov, are reminders that their record is by no means spotless, even by the standards set by other Clans elsewhere in known space.

That said: to quote from the portion of the Fighting for the Past story in Shrapnel #14 set on Braunschweig in the 8th of May 3138:

German was one of the official languages of the Hanseatic League. All Goliath Scorpion Trueborn learned it during their sibko training. Long had the Clan been preparing for the war to come.

Also, in the portion of the Dying Breed story in Shrapnel #12 set on Graystone in the 22nd of October 3099:

They all bore the same ensign, a sailing vessel on a disc with the numeral 5: Regional Defense Force Five of the Hanseatic League. The Hansa had attacked the Empire's other colony worlds, hoping to stop the Clan's expansion. It was her duty to stop them.

Now, it could be argued that the two data points are not entirely connected: exactly how long the Scorpion sibkos have been learning German is not specified. And while the Hansa certainly saw these new colonies as a direct threat to them from the outset, they would have done so regardless of the Imperio's intentions.

But, even though the early Imperio had its hands quite full getting its own house in order - to include reconciling with the Umayyads, once it was confirmed that they were not connected to the Not-Named Clan after all - I remain convinced that the Scorpions' long-term plan from quite early on was the same as what the Council of Merchants feared it to be: to invade and conquer the Hanseatic League.

-----

As for the Scorpions and the Homeworld Clans:

I still think there's every possibility that the four Clans left standing at last reporting might not stay together as one bloc.

Plus, while the Star Adders might (again at last reporting) have had the now-former Hansa worlds in their sights, I think it's also quite possible that news from Terra regarding ilClan Wolf - and of General Kerensky's body being entombed there - might force even this most level-headed of Homeworld Clans to adjust their strategic priorities.

In fact, both things might be true. Perhaps the Coyotes might split from the others and make a run for the Scorpion Empire, while the other three march on Terra in order to reclaim the McKenna's Pride and the tomb of the Great Father?

Indeed, things might get yet more complicated for the Scorpions if the Coyotes show up in Imperial space, and while there announce their defection to the side of the Wolves. In the midst of a Coyote-Scorpion war, would Alaric grant recognition of one side or another, or perhaps seek to bring both into his new Star League?

-----

Also, as shown on the Deep Periphery maps from ISP3, the area covered by the Scorpion HPG network - to include the relays being run across the distance from the Empire proper to the Chaine Cluster - covers about two-thirds of the distance between Braunschweig and Terra, give or take.

So if Alaric were to extend the offer of negotiations with the Scorpion leadership, it might then be possible for the Sea Foxes, and/or the Scorpions themselves, to further extend this HPG line from the Isles all the way to Unity City: enabling near-real-time communication of the kind which took place between the original Clan OZs and Strana Mechty between Operational REVIVAL and the Wars of Reaving.

All of a sudden, the Empire would be that much closer to events taking place at the heart of the Inner Sphere - and to be able to adjust accordingly...

[rebs]

I know a couple people who wouldn't contribute to that fund.   

I'll take this as a subtle hint that better plans exist somewhere in the future.  Like 1200 years in the future! 

[tassa_kay]

But, even though the early Imperio had its hands quite full getting its own house in order - to include reconciling with the Umayyads, once it was confirmed that they were not connected to the Not-Named Clan after all - I remain convinced that the Scorpions' long-term plan from quite early on was the same as what the Council of Merchants feared it to be: to invade and conquer the Hanseatic League.

The Scorpions always knew the Hansa were going to be a problem, but I still maintain there's a difference between knowing that, even preparing for it (and yes, there's definitely a lot of evidence of that, I don't at all dispute that), and having a decades-long plan for dealing with it. I think that's giving the Scorpions far too much credit, and it's just not borne out in the canon.

That said, I kind of wish it were, because it would make far more sense that the Scorpions were intentionally trying to instigate a conflict by doing things like settling near Hansa space and sending in covert Seeker teams because they had a long-term plan. As it stands, it reads weird that the Scorpions didn't consider it worth going to war when the Hansa invaded Holdout but did when their covert Seeker team got caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

[Nerroth]

The Scorpions always knew the Hansa were going to be a problem, but I still maintain there's a difference between knowing that, even preparing for it (and yes, there's definitely a lot of evidence of that, I don't at all dispute that), and having a decades-long plan for dealing with it. I think that's giving the Scorpions far too much credit, and it's just not borne out in the canon.

That said, I kind of wish it were, because it would make far more sense that the Scorpions were intentionally trying to instigate a conflict by doing things like settling near Hansa space and sending in covert Seeker teams because they had a long-term plan. As it stands, it reads weird that the Scorpions didn't consider it worth going to war when the Hansa invaded Holdout but did when their covert Seeker team got caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

Another quote, this time from Page 8 of OTP:HC itself:

Khan Kirov foresaw an impending great crusade and increased the size of the touman, adding at least one Cluster to each Galaxy, to a minimum of four.

Enrico Kirov was Khan from 3108 to 3137. During his tenure, the size of the touman was further increased (with Omega Galaxy eventually fielding six Clusters); Chi Galaxy was evolved into Seeker Galaxy, complete with the creation of a new Seeker Keshik to lead it; the office of reKhan was established on each world in the Imperio; the colonization efforts begun by Khan Rood were brought to fruition; the industrial base in the Imperio was brought up to full Clantech levels; the capital was moved from Granada to Valencia; and the societal restrictions which had caused the most trouble with the local populace (such as insisting on the exclusive use of Star League English) were loosened. So still a lot on his plate to deal with before the time was ripe to kick off a broader conflict.

To put it another way: there were plenty of opportunities for an incident between the Imperio and Hansa to trigger a large-scale invasion. But only once the Scorpions felt that they were ready to successfully carry out such a conquest did they actually use one such incident as a trigger for said conflict.

[tassa_kay]

To put it another way: there were plenty of opportunities for an incident between the Imperio and Hansa to trigger a large-scale invasion. But only once the Scorpions felt that they were ready to successfully carry out such a conquest did they actually use one such incident as a trigger for said conflict.

I can agree with the gist of this, but OTP:HC doesn't really paint the picture of "this was the Scorpions' plan all along", more "they'll have to deal with this at some point and want to be prepared". So that's about as much accord as I can offer on this topic.

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

...
That said, I kind of wish it were, because it would make far more sense that the Scorpions were intentionally trying to instigate a conflict by doing things like settling near Hansa space and sending in covert Seeker teams because they had a long-term plan. As it stands, it reads weird that the Scorpions didn't consider it worth going to war when the Hansa invaded Holdout but did when their covert Seeker team got caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

It's not about Holdout or Seekers, it's about how ready they were for war or when they actually concluded that this specific war is on the horizon

There have been hostilities in Castilian Cluster long before Scorpions arrived, Castilians and Umayyads despised Hansa because they fomented war between them hoping to absorb them both later, both were about to start joint raids against Hansa despite not trusting each other, Hansa got hostile with Scorpions because they believed that they stole their future territories and since Scorpions absorbed Castilians and Umayyads their hatred of Hansa was absorbed as well made much worse by immediate antagonism by Hansa

Let's go over the timeline:

3070s - 3090s: Khan Colin Yeh's tenure, hard early days, Imperio is founded, society, military and economy are being laid down, societal and political tensions, threat from Homeworlds is main concern, constant Home Clan raids and subterfuge

3090s - 3100s: Khan Connor Rood's tenure, Home Clan raids are being beaten back consistently, spies are being weeded out, Homies start pulling back, early reforms start bearing fruit, economy and population boom and new colonies are founded in Hansa direction because it's deemed safer than Homeworlds direction, Saturn and Jupiter start their police reforms

3110 - 3130: Khan Enrico Kirov's tenure, Home Clans isolate themselves, still the main threat but not as urgent as before, Imperio society settles in the groove, norms are loosened a bit, police reforms are implemented fully, technology starts reaching Clan levels, Battle of Holdout happens early in this period and Castilians and Umayyads are fully integrated into the Clan afterwards with equalizing trueborn and local freeborn warriors and fully granting them political power, Hansa fully militarizes as a result of the loss on Holdout and Scorpion retaliation in the process pretty much becoming what they sought to avoid (military society instead of mercantile one)

At this stage arms race is on, raids by both sides are constant, war is officially coming and both sides are gearing for it big time, whole region is now a powder keg

3130's - Now: Khan Magon Scott's tenure, everyone is armed and ready, Seekers get pantsed and the match is lit


So war with Hansa was not Scorpion Plan A but once it got on the menu after turn of the century they definitely started getting ready for it, Battle of Holdout was tectonic event but at the time they weren't ready for major war of conquest

Fast forward three decades later they were ready and went all in

[D-Rock]

I added to my Scorpion Empire company. Not only do I now have a full star of IS upgraded mechs, I also have two stars of clan mechs to field!

[Doc Swift]

NICE.

[truetanker]

Looks like the hulk's been drinking funny water again...

Noice pics.

Seems, you got a Kurita Lance of Great Turtle as well!

TT

[Nerroth]

On another topic, part of the "Sea Fox Two-Step" in Spotlight On: Hellion Keshik involved the Scorpions claiming an unspecificed range of Sea Fox units and/or blueprints as isorla.

As noted over in the MUL errata thread, the Scorpion Empire does not have access to any "general" unit lists: so whatever they get from the Foxes in enough numbers to warrant MUL line entries has to be added to the Empire's own IlClan Era MUL listings - if it has not been so already.

So, I was wondering: are there any particular IlClan Era Clan Sea Fox and/or IS Clan General designs you might, or perhaps might not, want to see the Scorpions acquire from this haul, and/or be worth adding to the MUL at some future point n time?

-----

Personally, I'm still hoping for the Hammerhead to be up for grabs.

Although, since the Foxes have a number of Wraith models marked on their IlClan Era MUL listings, getting those would make it easier to use all of the 'Mechs offered in the Alpha Strike Boxed Set...

[Schwerpunkt Prinzip]

On a serious note, I’d *love* for Ben Rome to be given the reins to write the next chapter of the Home Clans’ story, if and when they’re taken off the shelf again. He did such a superb job with WoR, and at least with him, there would be a greater chance of consistency with what came before.

100% this. He killed off two of my favourite Clans and I still love him for it.

[tassa_kay]

100% this. He killed off two of my favourite Clans and I still love him for it.

Absolutely the same sentiment I feel. I was crushed that the Spirits bit the dust (to the point where I didn’t buy BT products for a few years because they were my primary story/faction investment), but the book was excellent and has aged very well, IMO.

[Dulahan]

100% this. He killed off two of my favourite Clans and I still love him for it.

It's honestly one of my favorite Gaming Sourcebooks ever.  Very well written.

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

On another topic, part of the "Sea Fox Two-Step" in Spotlight On: Hellion Keshik involved the Scorpions claiming an unspecificed range of Sea Fox units and/or blueprints as isorla.

As noted over in the MUL errata thread, the Scorpion Empire does not have access to any "general" unit lists: so whatever they get from the Foxes in enough numbers to warrant MUL line entries has to be added to the Empire's own IlClan Era MUL listings - if it has not been so already.

So, I was wondering: are there any particular IlClan Era Clan Sea Fox and/or IS Clan General designs you might, or perhaps might not, want to see the Scorpions acquire from this haul, and/or be worth adding to the MUL at some future point n time?

-----

Personally, I'm still hoping for the Hammerhead to be up for grabs.

Although, since the Foxes have a number of Wraith models marked on their IlClan Era MUL listings, getting those would make it easier to use all of the 'Mechs offered in the Alpha Strike Boxed Set...

Aside from Smoke Jaguar stuff the Goliath Scorpions have track record of using Wolf and Ghost Bear hardware

They purchased stuff from Wolves back when they were buddies (and also reverse engineered Phantom as well) and they were among major users of Grizzlies and Kodiaks

They have also been regular customers of Sea Foxes since the exile

So we know their preferences and given their security priorities they would prefer something that Home Clans are unfamiliar with



IMO the wish list would definitely include Amarok, Dominator and Kontio

Hammerhead would fit this criteria too

Battle armor like Callisto and Dragoon would also fit the bill on top of mandatory Elemental III which would be sweet upgrade

Vehicle wise Eurus, we know they build Eponas all over the place for both Warrior and Garrison Castes so they do appreciate Hell's Horses vees and Eurus would be right up their alley 

In the air definitely Onuris VTOL, like all Clans they used Anhur for centuries and Onuris is logical continuation

Also I think that they wouldn't mind upgrading their trusty Mad Dogs to III/IV series, Grizzly to model III and get more recent Kodiaks

Maybe they could even start building White Ravens to supplement Black Pythons but I don't know how much that could be fiscally justified in-lore since that one is really extra money wise (Snow Ravens spare no expenses it seems)



All these would be great additions and would be complete unknowns for Home Clans

I didn't add any IS platforms but that's just because I don't have so much stuff memorized but I'm sure there should be IS products Scorps would appreciate



Fun bonus:

I know handful of folks out there are peeved over Scorpions not having protomechs (funnily enough nobody wishes to saddle any other Clan with those buckets for some reason, beats me why) but if they really need some super weird platform I vote for QuadVees: they are spicy, they work, they are practical, they aren't edgy or grimdark and best of all they can be used by both Warrior and Garrison Caste units

If weirdness is required I vote for weirdness that makes sense 

[JAMES_PRYDE]

Protomechs are before their time. The technology in them super advanced, especially in the "Elements of Treason" novel, where we get a further insight into it.

Perhaps the Homies have been developing them more (also as more resources dwindle), as they were designed to replace vehicles and have a little advantage over Battle Armor. But especially with the newer super heavy versions, they can start rivaling ultra and light mechs, be designed with hargel in them, better armor and EI interface

Would be a new tech show down to see if we do get a conflict between the Empire and Homies

[Nerroth]

Actually, if the Scorpions were to acquire QuadVee technology from the Hell's Horses, perhaps they could use it to develop their own, turret-less versions? Say, a QuadVee version of the Fire Scorpion?

Indeed, while the Scorpion LAM didn't work out, perhaps a Scorpion QuadVee might be a more viable option.

In the long run, I might wonder if both the Scorpions and Horses might adopt both turreted and turret-less QuadVee designs as the technology is refined - for use in "battle tank" and "tank destroyer" modes respectively.

[alex blood spirit]

here's a what if   the Blood Spirit's joined with the Scorpions  prior to there move  would this be a benefit or possible diastor

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

here's a what if   the Blood Spirit's joined with the Scorpions  prior to there move  would this be a benefit or possible diastor

Spirits: We must take vengeance on Burrocks and Adders!

Scorpions: Don't.

Spirits: But they have committed great insu...

Scorpions: DON'T!!! Also, how many of you speak Spanish?

Spirits: Well I am sure we can find quite a few who... WAIT A MINUTE!!! What are you guys up to? You are being even weirder than usual!

[ArkRoyalRavager]

Protomechs are before their time. The technology in them super advanced, especially in the "Elements of Treason" novel, where we get a further insight into it.

Perhaps the Homies have been developing them more (also as more resources dwindle), as they were designed to replace vehicles and have a little advantage over Battle Armor. But especially with the newer super heavy versions, they can start rivaling ultra and light mechs, be designed with hargel in them, better armor and EI interface

Would be a new tech show down to see if we do get a conflict between the Empire and Homies

The Homies would have to pray for a quick war against the Empire or their Proto manpower will suffer from heavy attrition

[tassa_kay]

The Homies would have to pray for a quick war against the Empire or their Proto manpower will suffer from heavy attrition

If that's the only thing the Home Clans were bringing to the table, sure. But I would expect them to throw as much as possible at the Scorpions if and when they enter into a conflict, especially with the Adders in charge. Plus they've been sitting in isolation for decades now (how much could the Aggressor movement have grown in that time?) and they're going to want to give as many warriors as they can the chance to win glory in combat. And if things turn south or the Empire proves a tougher nut to crack than they expect, we know they have the means and the will to use their WarShips to glass their enemies from orbit.

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

If that's the only thing the Home Clans were bringing to the table, sure. But I would expect them to throw as much as possible at the Scorpions if and when they enter into a conflict, especially with the Adders in charge...

True but Home Clan Invasion is precisely what Scorpions have been getting ready for all these decades and have plenty of stuff to throw themselves to say nothing of the fact that unlike Homies they have ginormus pool of reinforcements, replacements and experienced retired reservists ready to jump back in

To say nothing of ocean of hardware and production capacity

Plus they've been sitting in isolation for decades now (how much could the Aggressor movement have grown in that time?) and they're going to want to give as many warriors as they can the chance to win glory in combat.

Better question is does Aggressor movement even exist anymore?

They have been made to look like idiots by bunch of Garrison militia mech jocks back in the early days and all this radio silence and isolation is indicative of Bastions running the show ever since

And if things turn south or the Empire proves a tougher nut to crack than they expect, we know they have the means and the will to use their WarShips to glass their enemies from orbit.

They could try that once and then they would get hosed down with nuclear fireworks plus with God knows what else

Just because Scorpions aren't building warships (that we know of) doesn't mean they don't have the means of dealing with them

Like I said, decades of preparation

And once now officially dezgra invaders have been dealt with it would be time to load everything up on jumpships and start collecting heads in the Homeworlds

Not the game I would play if I were Homies

It would be wiser to try hitting someone who did not spend several eras specifically getting ready for you in particular

----------

And realistically, would Homies even be allowed to keep that many warships now when warships are being actively deleted from the setting? Even Snow Ravens aren't allowed to play too hard with them and it's supposed to be their whole inventory shtick

[Wrangler]

I think the warship question as far as production goes will end up being tied in with the Sea Foxes and Chainislands cluster, which we do know that Sea Foxes maintain a some kind of shipyard there. Since we do have some places in Canon that have mentioned ship work being done there.

Whether or not they're able to actually produce brand new jump ships or Warships remains to be seen and is left to the game makers / writers to choose if there NEED factions have them or not.

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

They don't even need to do anything as complicated as building warships

Ravens have bunch mothballed warships and no money or electronics (they trade with Canopus for computers), Scorpions have money and electronics, Foxes travel between Empire and Outworlds

Scorpions can hire Foxes to go buy some mid-size warships for them from Ravens in exchange for percentage of the contract

Scorpions get warships, Ravens get cash and hardware, Foxes get their cut and everyone walks away happy

[tassa_kay]

Ravens have bunch mothballed warships

No, they don’t. The Ravens have reactivated their fleet.