Author Topic: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech  (Read 6799 times)

Charistoph

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New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« on: 22 September 2022, 00:58:59 »
So, having played with ProtoMechs for a couple times, I thought it would be interesting to explore how the Inner Sphere would duplicate it.  So, using a handy thesaurus I discovered the word "bantam" which has several meanings, but as an adjective is simply "diminutive or tiny".

Here is the rules pass.  I'll update Construction and Costs later on as soon as I finish a few typing out the details.  Constructive criticism is appreciated, I'm unsure if they'll work or even be desirable, so with that out of the way, let us begin.

BantamMechs
With the expense of manufacturing BattleMechs, and the surprising results of ProtoMechs used by the Word of Blake and forays by the Hell’s Horses, some security firms who wanted to provide something heavier than Battle Armor, but for customers who couldn’t afford BattleMechs or wanted them for other purposes, began working on their own version of the ProtoMech.  There were many challenges in this project because Inner Sphere technology just wasn’t up to the task on its own and the control systems were considered extreme for volunteer pilots.

As they see deployment in the Inner Sphere, some Mercenary units have looked to deploying them as cheap security or augmenting forces.  The Houses have been watching this with a combination of interest and amusement.

BantamMechs use the Record Sheets for ProtoMechs.  Most of the rules for BantamMechs are consistent with ProtoMechs with the exceptions mentioned below.

Deployment: BantamMechs normally deploy in Squads of four units, but some squads may up to six or less Bantams as circumstances and organizations prefer.

PLAYING THE GAME
BantamMechs handle weapon attacks, damage resolution, and movement declarations like a ProtoMech.

MOVEMENT
Bantam Squads move like ProtoMech Points.

Skidding: Unless the BantamMech has a Neural Interface control system, BantamMechs can skid in the same circumstances a BattleMech will skid with.

COMBAT
BantamMechs use the same rules for Weapon Attacks and Firing Arcs that ProtoMechs use.

Hit Location
Players determine hit location against a BantamMech by rolling on the ProtoMech Hit Location Table.  However, unless a BantamMech is equipped with a Neural Interface control system, a hit on a BantamMech that rolls a 3 or 11 for location will hit the Right Arm and Left Arm, respectively.

Special Circumstances: BantamMechs are considered ProtoMechs for the purposes of being hit with area-effect weapons, building collapse, crashing units, falling, and collisions with skidding and sideslipping units.

Targeting Computers: BantamMechs are treated as ProtoMechs when targeted by units with Targeting Computers.

DAMAGE
BantamMechs are treated as ProtoMechs for the purposes of taking damage, including Critical Hits.  However, the pilot only takes damage when the Internal Structure is damaged if the unit is using the Neural Interface control system.  If the unit is using any other system, hits against the torso will damage the pilot like the Head hit on a Mech.

FRENZY
BantamMechs may make Frenzy attacks like ProtoMechs.  If the unit is using a Neural Interface control system, the attack is performed like a ProtoMech.  With any other control system in place, us the BantamMech’s Piloting Skill as a base number and apply the modifiers as normal with a -1 To-Hit.

PHYSICAL ATTACKS
BantamMechs are targeted with Physical Attacks like a ProtoMech.

OTHER COMBAT EQUIPMENT
PROTOMECH MYOMER BOOSTER

BantamMechs can only have Myomer Boosters with a Mixed technology platform, but otherwise are treated as ProtoMechs for the purposes of this system.  However, on a failing roll, if the BantamMech is not using a Neural interface Control System, the player makes a Critical Hit roll against the Legs.
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PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #1 on: 22 September 2022, 02:07:32 »
Then I have to ask the most important but absent part; Do BantamMech run without any neural interface? What is the difference if it has/lacks a neural interface?

Charistoph

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #2 on: 22 September 2022, 11:40:46 »
Then I have to ask the most important but absent part; Do BantamMech run without any neural interface? What is the difference if it has/lacks a neural interface?

I will be providing at least one option for a Battle Armor/Mech hybrid control system that weighs in more (maybe too little at present) and has other draw backs as noted in the rules above.  I am also considering a Drone Control System option as well.  The different types will be covered in the Construction rules.

Most notable differences are how Pilot Damage is incurred and the need for a Piloting Skill, and attendant needs for it, i.e. BanamMechs with a Standard Cockpit can be knocked down.
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PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #3 on: 22 September 2022, 12:05:36 »
Good. Then we don't need to give the death sentence to our own pilots.

Charistoph

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #4 on: 22 September 2022, 12:43:39 »
Good. Then we don't need to give the death sentence to our own pilots.

Oh, the DNI will still be an option for fanatics (Capellan Death Commandos, for example), or perhaps for those who still want to fight, but are otherwise too damaged for even cybernetics to put them on the field.
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Red Pins

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #5 on: 22 September 2022, 17:08:03 »
 ;D

Well, I like the name, and I may steal it, but ironically this is a near duplicate of the Extra-light Mech s of my AU.

Care for a copy to compare notes?
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Charistoph

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #6 on: 28 September 2022, 20:41:08 »
;D

Well, I like the name, and I may steal it, but ironically this is a near duplicate of the Extra-light Mech s of my AU.

Care for a copy to compare notes?

Possibly.  I'm starting with the ProtoMech rules and making them a bit more 'Mechish, rather than trying to make a 'Mech more Proto, if that makes sense, so I don't know.

At present, I'm looking at making it a BA/BattleMech hybrid, where its mostly ProtoMech construction, but with some IS BA options and 'Mech controls included.
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Red Pins

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #7 on: 29 September 2022, 00:00:44 »
Almost EXACTLY LIKE my concept then.  I'm away from the box, but they use a  cut-down 'Open Cockpit' with motorcycle-like controls, use BA weapons and the rare full-size ones, a gyro, and BA armour with a fusion engine.

I have to rewrite their rules, though, playtesting wasn't done when my opponent moved away.
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Suralin

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #8 on: 03 December 2022, 22:26:17 »
Having done a similar thing once in the past, I'm curious as to how this is going. :)

Red Pins

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #9 on: 03 December 2022, 23:21:40 »
Having done a similar thing once in the past, I'm curious as to how this is going. :)

Um.  I think I forgot this, I've been trying to finish this story I'm writing the November novel writing thing instead of working on the project.  Here's what I have - keep in mind I lost my playtest volunteer about the mid-point, its been on hold a long time.

Quote
EXTRA-LIGHT ‘MECH (ELM)

   Extra-Light ‘Mechs can trace their development to Clan Surf Dragon, whose attempts to create an Infantry battlesuit from Labor Caste exoskeletons were interrupted by the arrival of technical data and production samples of dezClan Wolf’s Elemental Battlearmor.
   Because of the crudity of the original work, the project was abandoned in favor of the dezClan suit, and its resources turned to developing a larger, more robust unit capable of destroying an entire Elemental Point.  A blend of Battlearmor and BattleMech technology, the Joint Development Program released the design specifications for their prototype ELM, the Novice, in 2868.
Expansion of the ELM concept has taken advantage of the continued refinement of the technology, with a series of designs up to 19 tons being considered for increased emphasis to counter the introduction of the revolutionary ProtoMechs by dezClan Smoke Jaguar.

Construction Rules
   The construction of ELMs closely follows that of BattleMechs, with some unique features.  Construction of ELM/PAMs follows the same construction rules for the standard ELM, except the removal of its arms and the addition of one critical space and 500 kg for fuel and avionics.  ELM/PAMs must also use the ‘Environmental Sealing’ of IndustrialMechs, to correct the deficiencies of the open cockpit.

Step 1:
   In Step 1, determine the tech base, mass, and Internal Structure of the ELM.
•   Because ELMs are exclusively the property of the New Clans, a ‘Mixed’ tech base must be chosen.  ELMs may not use Omni technology.
•   ELMs range from 10 to 19 tons.
•   Because of the limited amount of mass, ELM Internal Structure is exclusively Endo-Steel.  Designers do not allocate critical space for the use of Endo-Steel; its slots are standardized and do not appear on the record sheet.  Its Internal Structure is calculated by the formula, Internal Structure = [(mass of ELM) x 10%] / 2

Notes:
•   Due to size and mass limits, ELMs may not be quads.
•   Due to their size, ELMs are limited to only Shoulder Actuators.
•   Due to mass requirements, ELMs use kg in all mass calculations, similar to battlearmor.
•   Because of their small size, ELMs have smaller Critical Hit Tables; the head has 4 slots (with one slot for Cockpit, Sensors, and Life Support), each arm 5 slots (6 with the Shoulder Actuator), Legs have 2 slots (6 with Hip, Upper- and Lower Leg Actuator, and Foot), and CT has 2 slots.  (12 with standard gyro and fusion engine critical spaces.)

Step 2:
   In Step 2, install the engine, gyroscope, Jump Jets, Cockpit, and Special Physical Enhancements.  Designers planning to construct an ELM/PAM must use a standard fusion engine.
•   ELMs accept standard fusion engines, ICE, or power cells as engines.  All standard rules apply.  Engine ratings that do not appear on the engine chart must be rounded up to the nearest legal engine rating on the chart.
•   ELMs require the use of a gyroscope, and may use any canon gyro technology.  The mass of its gyroscope must be rounded up to the nearest value divisible by 5.
•   Only standard Jump Jets are allowable on ELMs; regardless of mass, each Jump Jet requires .5 tons/500 kg and moves the ELM one hex.
•   ELMs use a unique cockpit concept, the Open Cockpit.  An Open Cockpit requires 1 ton/1,000 kg.  The Open Cockpit is designed to provide a minimum of supporting equipment and complex electronics to the EWarrior.  Although it encloses the EWarrior (and protects him from the effects of Inferno missiles and bombs), the Open Cockpit is not watertight. 
•   ELMs are limited to Partial Wings, MASC, Stilts, and Detachable Weapons Platforms as Special Physical Enhancements.

Notes:
•   In contrast to a Battlemech, the head of an ELM provides only 3 slots; Life Support, Sensors, and Cockpit.

Check TM and TO

Step 3:
   In Step 3, assign heat sinks.  Because of the Open cockpit, ELMs must remain heat neutral.
•   If a standard fusion engine is used, designers must use the standard formula, Engine Rating /10 to determine the number of heatsinks inside the engine.
•   Because of their small size, ELMs use compact heatsinks.

Notes:
•   ELMs choosing to use other powerplants must allocate sufficient heatsinks to remain heat neutral, adding up to the total amount of heat possible for the ELM to generate.
Ex.  An ELM with an ICE engine, 4 jump jets, twin machine guns and a Medium Laser must have a minimum of 7 heatsinks.

Step 4:
   In Step 4, choose the type of armor and allocate it to the ELM’s six positions.  Because of their size and mass, ELMs use the Battlearmor method of armor allocation where each point of standard armor requires 50 kg.
•   ELMs may use New Clan Fire-Resistant armor or any of the canon armor types the ELM has critical space for.
•   Because of their size, ELMs may only use one armor type.  ELMs may use any armor available on the Available Technology Chart.

Notes:

Step 5:
   In Step 5, choose weapons and equipment.  ELMs may choose from either the Heavy Weapons and Equipment or Battlearmor Equipment Charts.  Battlearmor equivalents of the equipment on the Heavy Weapons and Equipment table may be used if the designer is willing to settle for the loss of performance.
•   Because of their small size, ELMs may not use CASE or CASE II.
•   If the designer chooses a weapon that exists on both charts, the one from the HWaE Chart must be used.
•   If the designer chooses a piece of equipment that exists on both charts, he may use the one from the Battlearmor Equipment Table if he is willing to settle for inferior performance.
Ex. The designer decides to add an SRM-2 to his new ELM - because there is a SRM-2 on both Charts, he must use the one from the HWaE Chart.  The designer decides to add an active probe – because it exists on both Charts, and the designer can choose to use either one.

Notes:

ELM/PAM Construction Rules
ELM/PAMs are a special type of unit; they maximize the benefits of both ELMs and PAMs and in any setting, they should never be anything other than an extremely expensive, hand-made, and unique unit.  These units require several unique rules, explained below.
•   ELM/PAMs must use standard fusion engines.
•   ELM/PAMs must use the IndustrialMech option, “Environmental Sealing”, to compensate for the use of an Open Cockpit and completely seal the EWarrior’s cockpit.

Game Rules
ELMs benefit and suffer from rules that help define their unique attributes, broken down into sections below.  Rules not specifically mentioned still apply, because it is impossible to account for every rule interaction and players are encouraged to find their own solutions.

Movement
•   ELMs move in Points of five, as Protomechs.
•   ELMs follow stacking rules as Protomechs.
•   Regular Piloting and Gunnery skills for ELMs are 3 / 4, reflecting their ease of operation.

Combat
•   For Line-of-Sight, ELMs are considered to stand one level high.
•   The open cockpit concept is unable to protect an EWarrior from deep water; ELMs may only enter Depth 0 water before flooding the Open Cockpit.
•   ELMs use the firing arcs of Mechs; because they are allowed only Shoulder actuators, ELMs may fire arm-mounted weapons into the rear arc.
•   ELMs may not fire when prone.
•   Damage is transferred in the same manner as ‘Mechs; from damaged arms and legs to the torso location.





        ELM Internal Structure Table
   ELM     Max         Internal Structure
Tonnage  AP  Head Torso  L/R Arm  L/R Leg
    10        58        3       10          2              6
    11        58        3       10          2              6
    12        58        3       10          2              6
    13        62        3       10          2              7
    14        64        3       11          2              7
    15        68        3       11          3              7
    16        68        3       11          3              7
    17        72        3       11          3              8
    18        72        3       11          3              8
    19        72        3       11          3              8
         ELM Hit
   Location Table
Die Roll
(2d6)
    2   Torso
    3   >Near Miss<
    4   Right Arm
    5   Right Leg
    6   Torso
    7   Torso
    8   Torso
    9   Left Leg
  10   Left Arm
  11   >Near Miss<
  12   Head
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Suralin

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #10 on: 03 December 2022, 23:58:01 »
I've actually read through your stuff before, Red Pins; you posted the ELM rules in one of my threads, but it has admittedly been a while. *(it's beenawhiiile...)*

note comparison intensifies

Red Pins

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #11 on: 04 December 2022, 02:11:39 »
Yeah, well it's from my first New Clans sourcebook, the one that might never see the light of day, nearly 20 years ago.  Unsurprising, I guess.  I hadn't done any real work on the 'Unique Technology' file since then, although I keep adding section headers with new ideas.

Most of the newer stuff will be blamed on the Blakists in the Blake Threat File sourcebook, which I feel confident of finishing for once.
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Lycanphoenix

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #12 on: 24 February 2023, 12:07:18 »
Oh, the DNI will still be an option for fanatics (Capellan Death Commandos, for example), or perhaps for those who still want to fight, but are otherwise too damaged for even cybernetics to put them on the field.
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Red Pins

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #13 on: 29 May 2023, 15:08:30 »
I'm actually starting to look into new revisions to the ELM rules, establishing what makes them ELM-y and where the design process will divert from standard 'Mechs.

I have some questions about Protos, though.
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namar13766

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #14 on: 29 May 2023, 16:38:45 »
Are you going to take some inspiration from the Mini-Mechs and Micro-Mechs from the homebrew Smoke Jaguar handbook?

Charistoph

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #15 on: 29 May 2023, 17:44:42 »
Are you going to take some inspiration from the Mini-Mechs and Micro-Mechs from the homebrew Smoke Jaguar handbook?

I haven't seen it, so I could not say.
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Red Pins

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #16 on: 29 May 2023, 18:31:23 »
I think its somewhere among my backups - I'll have to take a look.  Thanks.
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Red Pins

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #17 on: 31 May 2023, 14:32:32 »
Provisional new rules for Extra-Light 'Mechs.

Quote
EXTRA-LIGHT ‘MECH (ELM)

   Extra-Light ‘Mechs can trace their development to Clan Surf Dragon, whose attempts to create an Infantry battlesuit from Labor Caste exoskeletons were interrupted by the arrival of technical data and production samples of dezClan Wolf’s Elemental Battlearmor.
   Because of the crudity of the original work, the project was abandoned in favor of the dezClan suit, and its resources turned to developing a larger, more robust unit capable of destroying an entire Elemental Point.  A blend of Battlearmor and BattleMech technology, the Joint Development Program released the design specifications for their prototype ELM, the Novice, in 2868.
Expansion of the ELM concept has taken advantage of the continued refinement of the technology, with a series of designs up to 19 tons being considered for increased emphasis to counter the introduction of the revolutionary ProtoMechs by dezClan Smoke Jaguar.

Construction Rules
   The construction of ELMs closely follows that of BattleMechs, with some unique features similar to ProtoMechs. 

Step 1: Design the Chassis

Choose Tech Base
     Because ELMs are exclusively the property of the New Clans, a ‘Mixed’ tech base must be chosen.  ELMs may not use Omni technology.

Choose Bipedal or Quadrupedal
     ELMs can be either design, but Quads can choose to use a Wheeled movement style.

Choose Weight (Tonnage)
     ELMs range from 9 to 19 tons.  The total tonnage of a design may be less than this number, but the design gathers no benefit to the missing tonnage.  Designs may not go above the given maximum chosen by the designer.
     Due to mass requirements, ELMs can use tons or kg in all mass calculations but
     
Allocate Tonnage for Internal Structure
     Because of the limited amount of mass, ELM Internal Structure is exclusively Endo-Steel.  Designers do not allocate critical space for the use of Endo-Steel; its slots are standardized and do not appear on the record sheet.
     The mass of the ELM’s Internal Structure is 5% of the total mass of the ELM.
     Due to their size and bulk, ELMs are limited to only Shoulder Actuators.
     Because of their small size, ELMs have fewer Critical Slots; the head has 4 slots (with one slot apiece for Cockpit, 2 Sensors, and Life Support), each arm 5 slots (6 with the Shoulder Actuator), Legs have 2 slots (6 with Hip, Upper- and Lower Leg Actuator, and Foot), and CT has 2 slots.  (12 with standard gyro and fusion engine critical spaces.)
     Because of their smaller size, ELMs have a smaller Critical Space chart explained in Step 5.

Step 2: Install Engines and Control Systems

a.   Install Engine
   ELMs require Fusion engines (IS or Clan Standard, Light, or XL) or Fuel Cells for power.  Designers determine the required engine by multiplying the unit’s mass by the desired number of Walking hexes.  An Engine Rating not listed on the Master Engine Rating chart is rounded up to the next whole number.
   Fusion engines will vary in space requirements; Standard engines require no additional Critical Slots, Light and Clan XL engines require 2 additional Slots in each Torso.  Inner Sphere XL engines require three additional Slots.

b.   Add the Gyroscope
   Like Battlemechs, ELMs require a Gyroscope to remain upright and in motion.  ELMs may use Standard, Extra-Light, or Compact Gyro technology.
To determine the total mass of this equipment, divide the Engine Rating by 5, rounding up to the next whole number on the Master Engine Chart.

c.   Determine Jump Capability
Only Standard Jump Jets can be installed on ELMs.  Designers may choose to add Jump Jets to their design, to a maximum of the design’s desired Walking speed.  ELMs from 9-14 tons require 0.25 tons (or 250 kg) and each pair of Jump Jets fit into a single ELM Critical Slot.  ELMs from 15-19 tons require 0.5 tons (or 500 kg) and a single ELM Critical Slot per Jump Jet.
   Each Jump Jet allows a single hex of movement, with a minimum Heat generated by ELMs between 15-19 tons of 1.
Due to the size and exposed nature of ELM Jump Jets, Jump Jets for ELMs from 9-14 tons do not require heat sinks.  Jump Jets for ELMs between 15-19 tons generate a single point of Heat per 2 Jump Jets.

d.   Add Cockpit
   ELMs use a unique cockpit concept, the Open Cockpit.  An Open Cockpit requires 1 ton/1,000 kg.  The Open Cockpit is designed to provide a minimum of supporting equipment and complex electronics to the EWarrior, enclosing the pilot and protects him from the effects of fire-based weapons like Infernos and Plasma Rifes but is not watertight.

e.   Add Special Physical Enhancements
Designers who decide to add additional physical characteristics to further distinguish their design may choose from the following and follow the construction rules described here.

  Partial Wings: ELMs may a Partial Wing massing 5% of the design’s total mass rounded up to the nearest 0.25 tons (or 250 kg). It occupies 2 Critical Slots in both side Torso locations.  Partial Wings are permanent equipment and may not be combined with ELM Turrets, Detachable Weapons Platforms, or PAM technology.  A single Critical Hit destroys the Partial Wing.
  Use the ‘ProtoMech’ column of the ‘BATTLEMECH/PROTOMECH PARTIAL WING PERFORMANCE TABLE’, pg. 295 of TacOps to determine the ELM’s movement benefit and Heat Modifier of the Partial Wing.


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namar13766

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #18 on: 31 May 2023, 19:54:45 »
I have the feeling you're going to need to work on the rules for Hardpoints and Limb Extensions a bit more before you complete the rules for the ELM.

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #19 on: 31 May 2023, 22:03:56 »
I have the feeling you're going to need to work on the rules for Hardpoints and Limb Extensions a bit more before you complete the rules for the ELM.

...Its not really the forum for it, but..  Not really.  The Hardpoints take advantage of the old lifting rules of 'Mechs - ELMs measure theirs in KG, not that they can use it anyway with nothing more than a Shoulder joint.  Limb Extensions, yeah, Legs anyway.

Got an opinion about the rules?  Charistoph?  How about you?
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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #20 on: 01 June 2023, 00:40:27 »
Bit more done tonight.

Quote
Myomer Booster: Boosting the physical performance of ELMs, the Myomer Booster provides an increase to its maximum ground speed up to twice its Desired Walking speed. ELM Myomer Boosters require 2.5% x the ELM’s total mass, and does not require Critical Slots or risk leaving the ELM immobile.

Limb Extensions: ELMs are able to utilize Limb Extensions, a purely mechanical means of increasing its ground speed at the cost of Jump Jets.  Leg Extensions require 5% of the unit’s mass and a single critical space from each leg.  Leg Extensions provide +1 to a unit’s Walk Movement, and its Run Movement is recalculated after the adjustment.  (See the Rules section for Game Rules.)

ELM Turret (Quad/Wheeled chassis only): Quad ELMs may use a single turret mounted on either Torso, massing 10% of all weapons and equipment contained within the turret, with a single Critical Space assigned to the turret’s mechanical components.  Weapons and equipment assigned to the same location may be designated as contained by the turret and share the armor of the location they are mounted on.  (See the Rules section for Game Rules.)

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namar13766

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #21 on: 01 June 2023, 07:01:09 »
So I can guess why a Head Turret can't be mounted on a ELM, but why couldn't a Shoulder Turret?

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #22 on: 01 June 2023, 09:34:29 »
So I can guess why a Head Turret can't be mounted on a ELM, but why couldn't a Shoulder Turret?

Missed this - ELMs only have shoulder criticals in my headcanon.  Or shoulders and upper arms.  It's a space thing, partly to make up for the ES-IS.
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namar13766

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #23 on: 01 June 2023, 13:47:36 »
Do the ELM have something akin to VTOL equipment or are they still limited to Partial Wings and JumpJets for Permanent-AirMechs?

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #24 on: 01 June 2023, 15:40:08 »
Do the ELM have something akin to VTOL equipment or are they still limited to Partial Wings and JumpJets for Permanent-AirMechs?
Jump jets.  Think the 1980'S LAMs.
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namar13766

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #25 on: 01 June 2023, 17:59:31 »
Think you could adapt these rules from TRO: Syberia?

Quote
Units can mount all non-missile battle armor weapons and equipment on their Mechs and other non-battle armor combat units.

When doing so, however, the weight of all battle armor weapon systems mounted on anything other than battle armor must be rounded up to the nearest multiple of 250 kilograms (one quarter-ton), and take up 1 critical slot (regardless of size). All battle armor weapons (and TAG systems) mounted on a non-battle armor units in this way are treated as heavy weapons for the purposes of targeting system weights and the like.

Battle Armor-based energy weapons (including TAG systems) need no ammo if they are mounted on a fusion-powered unit, but they will generate 1 point of heat per 250 kg of mass. Ammo-based battle armor weapons are treated as though they carry a single standard magazine in their weight and slot space, but may carry additional ammo in 50-kilogram increments, with each ton of extra ammo (or fraction thereof) taking up critical slots on the unit’s record sheet as normal.

Non-weapon battle armor equipment mounted on non-battle armor units use their standard weights, but each occupies 1 critical slot per item. Special Note: battle armor-based stealth gear, including ECM suites and digital camo-systems, are ineffective on units that weigh 3 tons or more in total mass.


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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #26 on: 01 June 2023, 19:09:15 »
*snip*
...Permanent-AirMechs?
I would like to subscribe to your newsletter...  ^-^

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #27 on: 02 June 2023, 00:41:31 »
I would like to subscribe to your newsletter...  ^-^
Seconded
Federated Suns fan forever, Ghost Bear Fan since 1992, and as a Ghost Bear David Bekker star captain (in an Alt TL Loremaster)

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #28 on: 02 June 2023, 00:52:09 »
Think you could adapt these rules from TRO: Syberia?

...Maybe?  Step 5 is looking like a long shot right now to finish by the end of June, after which I won't be able to do much recovering from hernia surgery.

I would like to subscribe to your newsletter...  ^-^

Seconded

I'll start the ELM thread soon.  there should be copies of the Cluster's  Unique Technology file floating around on the forum somewhere, I haven't been shy about sharing it.  Heck, I'll need playtester again soon.
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Red Pins

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #29 on: 03 June 2023, 02:03:21 »
A bit more.  Realized the TSM wasn't going to work since ELMs are heat neutral, and the original TSM wasn't something I wanted to risk.

This one was a bit harder, I kept trying to add game rules to the construction stuff.

Quote
Detachable Missile Packs/Detachable Weapons Mounts: ELM DMPs and DWMs function in a similar manner to Battlearmor, with a single item allowed for each design.  DMPs/DWMs require a mount massing 10% of the contents and a single Critical Space assigned to a Torso location, allowing the ELM to carry a single missile weapon (and a single ton of ammunition) or non-missile weapon or piece of equipment with a 25% reduction of its mass.
   In order to accommodate a DMP/DWM the ELM is restricted from Running or Jumping and a further Movement reduction of -2 MP for ELMs 9-14 tons and -1 MP for ELMs 15-19 tons until it is discarded in the End Phase of the Turn.

Permanent AirMech: ELMs may choose to permanently modify their Internal Structure to accommodate fixed wings and flight controls to mimic the WiGE movement of Land/Air Mechs in AirMech mode.  The modifications require;
•   the removal of both Shoulder actuators
•   a Standard fusion engine (No Light or XL engines or Fuel Cells.)
•    Due to the optimized nature of PAMs, mult
•   5% of the ELM’s total mass and a single Critical Space in the Center Torso, assigned to ‘PAM Equipment’
•   10% of the ELM’s total mass for Environmental Sealing to seal the Open Cockpit
•   Jump Jets up to the Desired Walking speed of the unit.
•   PAMs are limited to Standard armor
Notes:
  PAMs suffer from a 1/3rd ground movement penalty.  (Desired Walk x .67, rounded down)
  ELM PAMs from 9-14 tons may travel a distance 4x their Jump Movement, ELM PAMs from 15-19 tons may travel a distance 3x their Jump Movement.
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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #30 on: 03 June 2023, 06:45:31 »
Interesting, but I'm not sure why you have to remove the shoulders? ???

Red Pins

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #31 on: 03 June 2023, 12:58:18 »
Interesting, but I'm not sure why you have to remove the shoulders? ???

The initial plans for ELMs was to have every design with the same kind of arms as the Rifleman, to save material and space.  To fit the wings, the fluff was to describe them as slim, needle-shaped bodies (Like the Lockheed Starfighter?) with Torso- or Wing mounted weapons - no arms allowed.  Because it was so small, the plan was to severely restrict the number of Critical spaces; I haven't figured out where it fits yet (Probably a 'finish the record sheet'-step) but this is the original description below.

Quote
•   Because of their small size, ELMs have fewer Critical Slots; the head has 3 slots (Completely filled with one slot apiece for Cockpit, Sensor, and Life Support), each arm 5 slots (6 with the removal of the Shoulder Actuator for ELM PAMs), Legs have 2 slots (6 with Hip, Upper- and Lower Leg Actuator, and Foot), each side torso has 6 slots (all of them open) and CT has 12 slots -1-2 for the AirMech gear (NOTE: 1 slotgyro for 9-14, 2 slot for 15-19+Standard engine slots)

Basically there are about 36 crits plus a smaller CT (about 2 charts of 4?), which leaves about 42 total (-8 for legs, -6 for engine, -1 or -2 for gyro, -2 for shoulders, -1 for PAM equipment) before the free crits of about 24-25 (minus more stuff like Jump Jets - can't be a LAM without them).

Where the ELM PAM isn't crit starved, I tried to punish it with the 33% slower ground speed and the 15% mass penalty.  And where those won't do it, I diddled their game rules; it takes added Thrust Points (or did; I haven't used ELMs since TW came out and need to study them, too) to Launch and Land, they have to travel a set distance before turning a single hex facing safely, etc.

The reason for the big deal about FASA's LAMs, in my opinion, was the way players treated the Jump range like a Queen in chess ("I CAN GO ANYWHERE!") and tried to treat them as super-units.  Not happening here - you can try moving 18 hexes and land behind somebody to try and gut them in a single Turn, but I tried to make it impossible without a series of miracle control rolls.  But Game Rules will come later.  Not looking forward to it, really.

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #32 on: 03 June 2023, 13:06:48 »
Ah, ok...

namar13766

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #33 on: 04 June 2023, 10:52:12 »
Would ELM DWMs work in conjunction with the Cassette Missile Launcher?

Red Pins

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #34 on: 04 June 2023, 18:57:31 »
 :D

120 srms - no waiting.  Imagine a Yeoman.  Now make it a single-shot 14-15 ton unit moving 6/9...


 :D

« Last Edit: 04 June 2023, 19:49:16 by Red Pins »
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namar13766

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #35 on: 04 June 2023, 20:35:51 »
:D

120 srms - no waiting.  Imagine a Yeoman.  Now make it a single-shot 14-15 ton unit moving 6/9...


 :D

Mother of God.  :o

And that's assuming it doesn't operate in 5-unit Stars or whatever  grouping the WOB/Blakists use.

Red Pins

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #36 on: 04 June 2023, 21:18:07 »
Mother of God.  :o

And that's assuming it doesn't operate in 5-unit Stars or whatever  grouping the WOB/Blakists use.

Fives for the Zombie Pythons and Civil Government, their allies.  Six for the Blakists, like the rest of their forces.  Of course, theirs aren't always straightforward LRM/SRMs.  It makes me a bit queasy, but a significant proportion are Thunders, against civilian targets or to cover retreats.

There's a reason the Pythons capital was Annihilated, the CG forced to surrender or fight a civil war, and the Blakists pursued as they ran for the Deep Periphery of the IS.
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namar13766

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #37 on: 05 June 2023, 07:34:43 »
Incidentally, do ELMs have other artillery weapons besides Missile Tubes for Arrow-IV missiles?

Because I was thinking something like BA Tube Artillery, only upscaled for an ELM, could provide some flexibility, whether it's made by the New clans, Civil Government, or Blakists.

Hell, it could even carry its own spotting drones.
« Last Edit: 05 June 2023, 07:48:53 by namar13766 »

Red Pins

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #38 on: 05 June 2023, 17:33:18 »
Not really?  The foundries and expense of creating tube artillery is rare amount the NCs - the 'stick an arm out so I can cut it off' mindset doesn't make such things very popular.  Their mindset and doctrine is massive retaliation or overwhelming force on the attack, just like the worst of the real Clans.  And they can carry drone Cubicles for single drones, but need to have an operator in a rear area control it.  Most of the time The combat unit focuses on the potential to commit war crimes, and the distant operator who never had to see the results presses the button.

The CG would wants to imitate the ComStar model, more endurance rather than all the one-shot and send it back to the factory, but any immigrants with an education get snapped up by the New Clans, and successful anybody in the CG considers adoption into a Clan a guarantee of living on easy street in comparison.  It's why the Citizens hate the NCs with a burning passion and threw their lot in with the Pythons and Wobbies.
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Red Pins

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #39 on: 06 June 2023, 23:37:55 »
I've been busy, but I've been looking at the TRO:Syberia rules for Mechs with BA weapons, and I've decided I need it.  But is it going to get me in trouble?  Who do I talk to about this?  Suggestions?
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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #40 on: 07 June 2023, 07:23:11 »
I've been busy, but I've been looking at the TRO:Syberia rules for Mechs with BA weapons, and I've decided I need it.  But is it going to get me in trouble?  Who do I talk to about this?  Suggestions?

Just credit HABeas2 and you’re good.

namar13766

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #41 on: 11 June 2023, 20:12:11 »
Yo buddy, still alive?

Red Pins

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #42 on: 11 June 2023, 22:39:26 »
Its been another week from hell, and no battletech.

(Snip.  Sorry, verbal diarrhea in text form.  I can't seem to not whine and bleed, so...  Yeah.  Busy.  I'll be back, but it will probably be in a specific ELM thread rather than continue to monopolize this one.  Sorry!)

Edit-Sent a message to HABeas asking.  That's about all I can find time to do right now.
« Last Edit: 12 June 2023, 00:06:06 by Red Pins »
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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #43 on: 14 June 2023, 00:05:33 »
I AM still trying to work on this, its just really slow.  I've been experimenting with BA trailer layouts and trying to find a format, making little stubs of Step 5: Weapons and Equipment, but I've given up for now.  I've broken it down to 3 points;

-a list of IS/C BA weapons, IS/C Heavy Weapons and Equip, and Legacy Cluster Heavy Weapons and Equip that can be mounted on ELMs.

-a 'Rules' description, modified from TRO: Syberia.

-mention of the reduced critical space.

Anything over 10 tons or 6 crits will be removed from the charts, then anything developed post-Burrock Absorption/Clan Invasion, then whatever I think they wouldn't need.
Seen in the attachment, the AC/2 is a
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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #44 on: 14 June 2023, 03:19:42 »
Is a... what? ???

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #45 on: 14 June 2023, 06:36:07 »
Oh, sorry.  It's just a sample.  It's intended to be BA weapons, then Heavy weapons but I did the Heavy chart first by habit.
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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #46 on: 14 June 2023, 18:15:48 »
I meant that the text trailed off in your previous post... sorry for being less than clear!

Red Pins

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #47 on: 14 June 2023, 19:51:33 »
Yeah, it was a extra line I didn't completely cut off.

Spoke with Herb - he's fine with it, but I was finishing cutting-and-pasting the allowable weapons and equipment....  It's five pages.  Top to bottom.  Gotta cull it somehow.
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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #48 on: 14 June 2023, 20:09:07 »
Ah ok... that's probably worth going back and trimming off, then...  :)

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #49 on: 15 July 2023, 10:23:49 »
A lot of this seems like my old IS Protos idea from ages ago (see link in signature). How're your construction rules on the matter?

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Re: New Project: BantamMechs, the Inner Sphere ProtoMech
« Reply #50 on: 15 July 2023, 10:30:31 »
The working rules are in the thread above or below this one, don't have time to turn on the box and it's a pain to copy paste on the tablet, sorry.  Look for my name.
...Visit the Legacy Cluster...
The New Clans:Volume One
Clan Devil Wasp * Clan Carnoraptor * Clan Frost Ape * Clan Surf Dragon * Clan Tundra Leopard
Work-in-progress; The Blake Threat File
Now with MORE GROGNARD!  ...I think I'm done.  I've played long enough to earn a pension, fer cryin' out loud!  IlClan and out in <REDACTED>!
TRO: 3176 Hegemony Refits - the 30-day wonder

 

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