Word of Blake Militia DropShips Circa 3058

[Weirdo]

Superheavies are not shipped as cargo on the Duat.

They are. The TRO stats and record sheet are both very clear that it has six dedicated cargo bays devoted to carrying a superheavy in each bay. Also, superheavy mech cubicles do not exist.

You might be thrown off because the Duat also has space for six standard mechs, those in regular cubicles.

[truetanker]

Most likely the regular mechbays are for the drones.

TT

[Colt Ward]

They are. The TRO stats and record sheet are both very clear that it has six dedicated cargo bays devoted to carrying a superheavy in each bay. Also, superheavy mech cubicles do not exist.

You might be thrown off because the Duat also has space for six standard mechs, those in regular cubicles.

Because they did not make superheavy bays- those 6 places are, they can go into combat off the DS from those bays by fiction IIRC.  It is one of the MWDA fixes.

[Weirdo]

Fiction can say what it wants. Rules-wise, they're cargo.

[truetanker]

And 220 tons of cargo each says it could and can be anything.

And I'm pretty sure Catalyst doesn't want to retcon more items than needed. Speaking of Superheavies, hane you noticed that regular mechbays have two cots for the pilot and astech.

SH needs pilots + astech(s), Tripods need three plus their astechs.

Duat also has BA and PBI bays, so.. the real question is how many astechs are needed for a single SH?

TT

[Colt Ward]

Fiction can say what it wants. Rules-wise, they're cargo.

And rules wise, battle armor and infantry can go into vehicles with/as cargo and no penalty.  Pretty sure this was asked to TPTB about before (cannot find it) but the specific reference is Rock of the Republic, Chapter 9 pg 83.

[truetanker]

Infantry, Armored or not, is no problem, anything else is considered cargo.statis, which requires cargo transfer rules.

Bays vs. Compartments

TT

[Weirdo]

And rules wise, battle armor and infantry can go into vehicles with/as cargo and no penalty.  Pretty sure this was asked to TPTB about before (cannot find it) but the specific reference is Rock of the Republic, Chapter 9 pg 83.

I'm deeply, DEEPLY confused as to what infantry have to do with the realities of moving superheavy mechs from one world to another. Could someone please explain what this apple has to do with the oranges we're discussing?

[truetanker]

Thinking he means Infantry and BA can be used as cargo via the vehicular rules.

Where vehicles can be carried inside their cubicles while also carrying the cargo, Infantry.

It is a cheap way if bringing Infantry to the board without technically housing Infantry onboard Dropships themselves.

TT

[Weirdo]

....yes? But weren't we talking about superheavy tripods?

[truetanker]

Yes.

I just want to understand where the pilots and astechs go when they are transferring / transporting SH Tripods.

Bay Cubicles have room, SH don't have cradles, so where do they house them? Not stated...

Given a 5 ton Foot Bay contains enough for a Platoon, I guess that's all that is needed? Leaving 15 or so tons as general cargo?

TT

(Fixed typos)

[Weirdo]

I keep forgetting people care about that, sorry.

There's plenty of room on the Duat for a couple dozen or so extra personnel in the regular cargo(don't forget that StratOps has rules for that), there's the infantry bays if you're not using them for actual troops, you've got plenty of options. Use whatever you want!

[Daryk]

You REALLY don't want to put infantry in a ship as actual cargo... the consumables go WAY up.  Infantry Bays at least, really.

[truetanker]

Which is why, while not an absolute rule, is essential.

The Duat is known fact to have six 220t cargo bays.

Now a 200t Superheavy, Bipod, Tripod and even a Quad can fit in it.

But what's not know is where the units Pilots and astechs are housed.

Normally, a battle unit's crew and techs are billited in with their respective rides.

Superheavies aren't. Anything over 100t somehow are billited elsewhere.

Quickest is a 5t Infantry Foot bay... Would allow for safe travels, the remaining 15t is unknown, possibly storage of tools or a motorized Lift Hoist machine?
TT

[Weirdo]

Large numbers of infantry as cargo is inadvisable, yes. But we're not talking about infantry. We're talking about 4-5 people per mech. That's 1 ton per mech per day. And since an Ares weighs 135 tons, that 220-ton bay can theoretically house the mech and crew for 12 weeks. Since 4-5 weeks is a much more reasonable load(one week out, one week in, a few extra weeks for recharge time and shit happening), that's a total of 171 tons for the mech, the crew and techs, and five weeks of food/water. That leaves 49 tons for pods and other spare parts. And that's in their dedicated cargo bays. The Duat still has almost 700 tons of space in the main cargo bay, more than enough for the smash raids it's described as being used for. And if you're running one in a more standard deployment, then the fleet carrying the rest of your troops is already expected to have a complement of supply ships like Mules or Mammoths.

[Daryk]

From StratOps AAR, page 143:
As pure cargo, 5 personnel use 1 ton of consumables per day.  Last I checked, they (and their gear) are 100kg each, for 0.5 ton.

In bay quarters, 5 personnel use 0.25 tons of consumables per day.  5 tons for a Foot Platoon Bay of 30 means they're 0.833 tons.

In "proper" quarters, 5 personnel use 0.025 tons of consumables per day.  At 5 tons (minimum) each, they're 25 tons.

The break even for "proper" quarters against Bays is about 90 days.  Bay quarters are better than camping in the cargo bay for even a single day.

[Colt Ward]

From StratOps AAR, page 143:
As pure cargo, 5 personnel use 1 ton of consumables per day.  Last I checked, they (and their gear) are 100kg each, for 0.5 ton.

In bay quarters, 5 personnel use 0.25 tons of consumables per day.  5 tons for a Foot Platoon Bay of 30 means they're 0.833 tons.

In "proper" quarters, 5 personnel use 0.025 tons of consumables per day.  At 5 tons (minimum) each, they're 25 tons.

The break even for "proper" quarters against Bays is about 90 days.  Bay quarters are better than camping in the cargo bay for even a single day.

Proper bays for Superheavies do not exist, which is why the point of them deploying immediately despite being 'cargo' is material.  The point of infantry being cargo and deploying immediately is that the rule is not absolute.

[Hellraiser]

Hmm,  Interesting that we are saying the SH bays don't exist.

1.  IIRC, The Duat fluff clearly mentions 2 versions.
The first created by CS was 1 big cargo bay, the 2nd was altered by the RotS to use less cargo because they added 6 SH bays.

2.  Also, why would they be 220 tons if the Ares SH Tripod is only 150 Tons?
It's pretty clear they were intended to be actual Bays for them at 50%ish more than the max mech, but at the time of RS creation they didn't have it as part of the design program.


As for crew quarters,
If it really comes down to it, you could just put the crews in the Infantry Platoon space & not have a single 1 off platoon of "marines/scouts" or whatever that 1 platoon is for.


PS.  I'm not saying SH Bays exist, I'm saying its clear to me at least that they intended for them to be there in the 2nd version.  Something to add to the game in the future.

[Daryk]

The reason to go with infantry bays for the techs is it seriously reduces the consumption of food/water/air.

[truetanker]

Officially, Dropships are 10 levels tall, a 20 story flying building that takes up a 3 hex circle, about 300 feet circumference.

All mechs are Level 2, about 40'.  Superheavies are 3 Levels, 60'.

This means 7 stories for everything else.

SH Bays are Cargo rated, so you'll be needing some type of structure not listed for Pilot/Astech living quarters onboard, somewhere.

Oh and before you ask, it's unofficially classified. TPTB reserves canon when they do.

TT