(New) Clan Smoke Jaguar: Once More With Feeling

[ColBosch]

There's some 16th-Century art of supposed Picts that I, uh, won't link here.

That said, I genuinely love that Alaric brought the Jaguars back. It makes a strong statement, both in-universe and out.

[ColBosch]

Are those even still canon anymore? Seriously asking.

Yes. The original idea (not even really a plan; it never progressed beyond the brainstorming stage) for a time jump to 3250 was abandoned, but it still makes for a good framing device. Note that the bits and pieces we've got about 3250 are very careful to not give too many specifics. Maybe the ilClan conquered the Inner Sphere, maybe it's still just one faction among many. We'll find out when we get there.

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

Trade, you say? If these Jaguars are true to their style, loyal to the old ways, they'll show up and trade nothing but beatings to reclaim the pride OmniMech of the Clan. 

It's the pride OmniMech of a very different Clan now (different thanks in part to Warhawks), Jaguars will need some serious extra time in the gym to do this the old way

I'm sure that great and wise Paul Moon would be the first to tell them to just bring nice stuff with them to trade for family heirlooms 

And those Amaroks sure are nice 

Yes. The original idea (not even really a plan; it never progressed beyond the brainstorming stage) for a time jump to 3250 was abandoned, but it still makes for a good framing device. Note that the bits and pieces we've got about 3250 are very careful to not give too many specifics. Maybe the ilClan conquered the Inner Sphere, maybe it's still just one faction among many. We'll find out when we get there.

Honestly I still can't believe that so many people got so bent out of shape over this

1) It really is excellent framing device

2) By the time story comes anywhere near that point majority of the current audience will be waiting for their families to decide if they should take them off life support

[Crimson Dynamo]

Scotty was right. The Iron Cheetah is better anyway. Out with the old, in with the new.

It's not so much the performance as it is the prestige and the symbolism. The assault Omni that was designed in anticipation of the Jaguars' return to the IS could serve to herald a new return. Plus, everyone else considered them as highly prized and went to great pains to maintain them, a solely Jaguar design, unlike the Dire Wolf and I would argue it's spiritual successor the Iron Cheetah. I've got no beef with the IC, but the Warhawk was *the* flagship design in my eyes, and I'd like to see it come home.

It's the pride OmniMech of a very different Clan now (different thanks in part to Warhawks), Jaguars will need some serious extra time in the gym to do this the old way

I'm sure that great and wise Paul Moon would be the first to tell them to just bring nice stuff with them to trade for family heirlooms 

I imagine it wouldn't be a big force, maybe a Star to press a Trial. No more gym time needed, the NuJags have been fighting Falcons, Wolves, and enemies of the Republic in all forms in their former lives as WiE and Fidelis.

Speaking of heirlooms though, I'd bet the Scorpions still have Franklin Osis' dagger that the Crimson Seekers stole in the 3050s... The Jags should get that back if they ever go out that way.

[Spirit Cat Refugee]

I will stand by my stance that I wish nuCSJ had stayed the Fidelis, and I hope we hear what happened to the Fidelis that stayed true to the Republic on New Earth or elsewhere.

Back in SYD Custos Paul Moon mentioned he had two centuries (200) warriors ready to serve, and only sent 100 out. The other 100 must have stayed behind the Fortress walls. When Paul Moon turned traitor and rejoined the Clans that century of warriors was still on New Earth, and Paul Moon + Fidelis who didn't become nuCSJ left for parts unknown. Should have still been some Fidelis to help out on Terra or elsewhere.

[tassa_kay]

It's not so much the performance as it is the prestige and the symbolism. The assault Omni that was designed in anticipation of the Jaguars' return to the IS could serve to herald a new return. Plus, everyone else considered them as highly prized and went to great pains to maintain them, a solely Jaguar design, unlike the Dire Wolf and I would argue it's spiritual successor the Iron Cheetah. I've got no beef with the IC, but the Warhawk was *the* flagship design in my eyes, and I'd like to see it come home.

I completely understand your point here, and on top of that, we all know how much Alaric loves symbolism. It's the reason the Jaguars exist now. So there's always a chance, however slim, that this might happen. But I certainly hope TPTB can do better for the Jaguars than having them chasing after hollow glory and bragging rights (a trait which contributed to their demise, perhaps more than any other). These simply aren't the same people they were a century ago, and I sincerely hope TPTB don't treat them as such.

Besides, I don't see them taking a detour way tf out to the Scorpion Empire in the foreseeable future anyway. The Jaguars have much more immediate concerns on their plate right now. Plus I kinda like that the Scorpions have it, because it's almost as iconic for them as it is for the Jaguars at this point. But I wouldn't cry if the Warhawk made it back into the Jaguars' hands, or just the Inner Sphere in general. It's a great design and the Jaguars could show everyone how it's done. 

Personally, I think TPTB should've saved the Iron Cheetah for the new Jaguars and used it as a symbol of their rebirth instead of debuting it the way that they did. It still could've made it into the RecGuides even, and made its canonization that much more special. The Wolves got a shit-ton of new designs in recent years; surely these new Jaguars could've been given one! It's a damn-near perfect assault 'Mech and very distinctly Jaguar in flavor, and deserves primacy of place.

[Geg]

I will stand by my stance that I wish nuCSJ had stayed the Fidelis, and I hope we hear what happened to the Fidelis that stayed true to the Republic on New Earth or elsewhere.

Per the diorama thread.  The Capellans captured and fortified New Earth.   I think there is a good chance that the Fidelis, or at least their warriors, got wiped out while Alaric was taking Terra.  This feels like we are looking the Fidelis getting the Shadow Division treatment, where some who were sent out some will come back into the nuJag fold, and the rest are never heard from again.

Since all of the NuJag warriors started out as as Fidelis.  What I do hope is that the NuJags take the loss of New Earth as a reason to keep the Fidelis traditions alive, making them into far more of a Special Forces Clan, then into your run-of-the-mill Clanny Clan.

[tassa_kay]

I will stand by my stance that I wish nuCSJ had stayed the Fidelis, and I hope we hear what happened to the Fidelis that stayed true to the Republic on New Earth or elsewhere.

I agree with the latter sentiment, but I'm thrilled that at least some of them were able to kindasorta fulfill BLP's original epilogue and return the Smoke Jaguars to life. The Stone Lions in WoR already set the precedent for us (and I guess maybe the Wolves post-Refusal War), and it's the biggest middle finger the Clans can possibly give to the Inner Sphere, and that has possibilities. And since some of the Fidelis didn't join Alaric, it's not like we aren't having our cake and eating it too.

Plus it's just nice seeing the number of Clans increasing instead of decreasing for a change.

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

I agree that Iron Cheetah is much more appropriate symbol for reborn Smoke Jaguars than Warhawk which has practically become Goliath Scorpion totem mech at this point

For Jaguars it represents everything that they are trying to change about themselves and leave in the past

For Scorpions OTOH Warhawk represents something completely opposite: it defended them during Wars of Reaving, it protected their new home in Imperio and it carried them to victory in the Crusade

Iron Cheetah definitely can and should be symbol of reborn Smoke Jaguars, it's still absolutely their mech. Fact that other factions use it doesn't change that one bit

Kodiak, Horned Owl, Timber Wolf, Summoner and Kingfisher are used by many factions but they are all definitely still Bear, Scorpion, Wolf, Falcon and Raven mechs respectively

Iron Cheetah can easily be that for reborn Smoke Jaguars, hell it already is by any measure: Jaguars made it, Jaguars use it and Jaguars will be getting more of them in the future

As for Warhawk coming back to the Inner Sphere proper I think it will happen at some point, yes Scorpions are gorging on them now but at some point they will have their fill and send it on the open market like they did with Snow Fox or Star Python

Already high price combined with rarity and distances needed to import one could make it something of a prestige item: not any rando would be able to shell out cash for it and Sea Foxes would be riding that situation for all it's worth

Considering their current employment status Smoke Jaguars should not have problems acquiring fresh Warhawks once they hit the catalogue

About Fidelis, I would bet good money that (regardless of what their political opinions they may have) should anyone even try to touch them they would be starting full blown blood feud with every single Smoke Jaguar out there and that it would end horribly for the perps

It's not a hornet's nest I would recommend disturbing

New Jaguars started well enough but in order to redeem their name properly they first need to prove their worth to population of the planet they will end up living on and in light of recent updates New Earth looks like possible location to start that process

[Blkbr2020]

Per the diorama thread.  The Capellans captured and fortified New Earth.   I think there is a good chance that the Fidelis, or at least their warriors, got wiped out while Alaric was taking Terra.  This feels like we are looking the Fidelis getting the Shadow Division treatment, where some who were sent out some will come back into the nuJag fold, and the rest are never heard from again.

Since all of the NuJag warriors started out as as Fidelis.  What I do hope is that the NuJags take the loss of New Earth as a reason to keep the Fidelis traditions alive, making them into far more of a Special Forces Clan, then into your run-of-the-mill Clanny Clan.

Just asked for clarification in the GenCon thread but Facebook lists the world as New Home and not New Earth. https://www.facebook.com/camospecs/posts/pfbid02E6D2TxBiWLhGTBgq5EUXf5g1ycXsTNZSziifXtmqmoUejGzrcdikhxZqVWod5RXXl

If its actually New Home that makes life easier for any Fidelis / Jags that did not travel to Terra.

[Geg]

Just asked for clarification in the GenCon thread but Facebook lists the world as New Home and not New Earth. https://www.facebook.com/camospecs/posts/pfbid02E6D2TxBiWLhGTBgq5EUXf5g1ycXsTNZSziifXtmqmoUejGzrcdikhxZqVWod5RXXl

If its actually New Home that makes life easier for any Fidelis / Jags that did not travel to Terra.

FWIW, the photo of the physical caption I saw on the diorama said Tau Ceti (aka New Earth).

[tassa_kay]

More than anything, the GenCon diorama is getting me even more hype for ilKhan's Eyes Only.

[JAMES_PRYDE]

More than anything, the GenCon diorama is getting me even more hype for ilKhan's Eyes Only.

On that note, any idea of a release date

[Orwell84]

Plus it's just nice seeing the number of Clans increasing instead of decreasing for a change.

Agree. Hopefully the reason Kisho got an entry in BattleTech: Legends is that the Nova Cats will be following in the Jags' footsteps.

On that note, any idea of a release date

Not this year at least, or so I saw on the upcoming releases thread. Real bummer, but all those merc kickstarter products have to take priority.

[Geg]

On that note, any idea of a release date

Adepticon it sounded like it was going to be the Novel (unstarted) first.  Then they would do the sourcebook.   No idea how long this stuff takes, but the need to physically print IKEO is going to drag things out.

[Spirit Cat Refugee]

Per the diorama thread.  The Capellans captured and fortified New Earth.   I think there is a good chance that the Fidelis, or at least their warriors, got wiped out while Alaric was taking Terra.  This feels like we are looking the Fidelis getting the Shadow Division treatment, where some who were sent out some will come back into the nuJag fold, and the rest are never heard from again.

Since all of the NuJag warriors started out as as Fidelis.  What I do hope is that the NuJags take the loss of New Earth as a reason to keep the Fidelis traditions alive, making them into far more of a Special Forces Clan, then into your run-of-the-mill Clanny Clan.

Given the fighting style of the Fidelis, I'd be surprised if they got wiped out. If anything they should be conducting guerilla resistance to the Liaos. Perhaps that is why the Clan League struck New Home, to free the Fidelis and offer them a choice to join nuCSJ.

[Geg]

Given the fighting style of the Fidelis, I'd be surprised if they got wiped out. If anything they should be conducting guerilla resistance to the Liaos. Perhaps that is why the Clan League struck New Home, to free the Fidelis and offer them a choice to join nuCSJ.

Depends on how war crimey the invading force is, and how much they are going to be holding the non-combatants accountable for the Fidelis activity.   I don't see Paul Moon abandoning the people he has led for almost a century, to their fate.

[Scotty]

Picts please!

Finally got the camera out.  First picture is a Command Star, second is an Assault Star.




Basing and decals to follow on all of them, plus a lot more in time.

[Metallgewitter]

Agree. Hopefully the reason Kisho got an entry in BattleTech: Legends is that the Nova Cats will be following in the Jags' footsteps.

The question will be who actually revives them. If Kisho manages to get to the clan Protectorate we might get a non IcClan aligned Nova Cat Clan. And considering how the majoprity of the clans treated the Nova Cats we might get a second anti IlClan force.

For the Fidelis: didn't Levin ask the Fidelis to train more units akin to their battle tactics and structure? Those were the Fidelis units right? So I assume that those are not all "true" Jaguars but RAF members trained in their fighting style. In the IlClan book it also stated that remants from Principes, Triari and fidelis unit made their way into the Federated suns where Julian offered them shelter. Could there be Jaguars between them or are those all former RAF troopers?

[Geg]

For Jaguars it represents everything that they are trying to change about themselves and leave in the past

I miss the old Jags.   These modern Clanners are too soft.   

We need a Jaguar were the Trueborns are real Trueborns, the Lower Caste serve and the warriors lead.  Where honor is both a bludgeon for belligerence, and a shield against defeat.

[MarauderD]

I'm just hoping a unit uses the old Alpha Galaxy Jaguar spot camo.  Selfishly, of course.  I'll use those minis either way.   

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I miss the old Jags.   These modern Clanners are too soft.   

We need a Jaguar were the Trueborns are real Trueborns, the Lower Caste serve and the warriors lead.  Where honor is both a bludgeon for belligerence, and a shield against defeat.

We have Alaric for that now.

[Geg]

We have Alaric for that now.

Alaric is many things, but up to this point, a Clan traditionalist he is not.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

No, but he is narrow-minded to the point of being self destructive.

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

I miss the old Jags.   These modern Clanners are too soft.   

We need a Jaguar were the Trueborns are real Trueborns, the Lower Caste serve and the warriors lead.  Where honor is both a bludgeon for belligerence, and a shield against defeat.

That attitude is the reason why old Jags have gone the way of RWR and we had to invent another Jags

When even Combine civilians think that they are not an improvement over previous management they should know they have a problem

Also that trueborn elitism is opposite of the whole purpose of eugenics program, if they have to artificially eliminate freeborn competition because they might be better than trueborns then that generation of trueborns are failures

Trueborns should have top performing scores and best freeborns should be giving their all just to keep up with mid trueborns and earn their position on top of the hierarchy otherwise it's just cheating and feudalism under a different name

Real trueborns should not need dishonest legalities and hypocritical rhetoric to dominate, their scores should be enough

Rules of evolution are clear

[Scotty]

If you want to live in the past BattleTech is happy to facilitate this for you.

[ColBosch]

I miss the old Jags.   These modern Clanners are too soft.   

We need a Jaguar were the Trueborns are real Trueborns, the Lower Caste serve and the warriors lead.  Where honor is both a bludgeon for belligerence, and a shield against defeat.

Nicholas Kerensky's Clans could only ever survive in a vacuum. Once exposed to people outside of the Kerensky Cluster - people who can survive just fine without a Warrior Caste telling them what to do - the Way of the Clans has to evolve to reflect something approaching reality. The old Jaguars never understood this, which is why they died. If they'd treated their populace with anything other than contempt, then Operations BULLDOG and SERPENT never could've succeeded.

[Elmoth]

The old jaguars is why I do not like the new jaguars existing at all. So no, better not to revive the old Jaguars. Not in a hundred novels. Jaguars are one of the reasons why I find the whole clans (all of them) distasteful to put it mildly. I was very sad for the narrative when the new jaguars were introduced for this very reason. Because they brought one of the worst clan paradigms back into the story.

[ANS Kamas P81]

There's the chance that the nuJags have learned from their time in the Republic and are a lot less Clan Hardass this time around.  People grow and change, and their time as the Fidelis shouldn't just be forgotten with their restoration.

Watch the revived Smoke Jaguar clan be one of the more liberal Clans, that ought to be interesting to see.

[Shin_Fenris]

There's the chance that the nuJags have learned from their time in the Republic and are a lot less Clan Hardass this time around.  People grow and change, and their time as the Fidelis shouldn't just be forgotten with their restoration.

Watch the revived Smoke Jaguar clan be one of the more liberal Clans, that ought to be interesting to see.

This. Their history from Forever Faithful to Hour of the Wolf is going to make them a very, very different version of a Clan people than the Jags that took out Turtle Bay.

Everyone's mileage may vary on what they like about the current storyline but I am very, very stoked for the nuJags. Hm, maybe less stoked to call them that though lmao...