Author Topic: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?  (Read 15981 times)

M-Rex

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Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« on: 05 February 2011, 22:20:28 »
What's the diff?


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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #1 on: 05 February 2011, 22:49:30 »
Just about everything.

M-Rex

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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #2 on: 05 February 2011, 22:54:15 »
Other than range...specifics?


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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #3 on: 05 February 2011, 23:01:47 »
The Flamer is a all energy Flame Thrower while the Plasma Rifle works much like the Plasma Rifle from Doom; It uses a high powered electromagnetic charge of energy to ignite a cartridge of plastic foam into a white-hot projectile.
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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #4 on: 05 February 2011, 23:05:15 »
One is a main gun, the other is a supplimentary weapon?

Not sure what this questions means?
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M-Rex

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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #5 on: 05 February 2011, 23:12:36 »
Well...essentially, they are both just heat weapons.  What's the advantage of one over the other?

Plasma has more range, but doesn't damage 'mechs.  Big whoop.

Mech Flamer can do damage and/or heat, but has very short range.

I'm trying to figure out the 'why' to having a Plasma Rifle.


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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #6 on: 05 February 2011, 23:21:58 »
Well...essentially, they are both just heat weapons.  What's the advantage of one over the other?

Plasma has more range, but doesn't damage 'mechs.  Big whoop.

Mech Flamer can do damage and/or heat, but has very short range.

I'm trying to figure out the 'why' to having a Plasma Rifle.

I think you are getting Plasma Rifle and Plasma Cannon confused.  The Plasma Rifle is an Inner Sphere (Liao) weapon that does heat and damage.  The Plasma Cannon is a Clan weapon that only does heat, significantly more heat at that.
« Last Edit: 05 February 2011, 23:37:28 by Lanceman »
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M-Rex

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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #7 on: 05 February 2011, 23:38:33 »
I think you are getting Plasma Rifle and Plasma Cannon confused.  The Plasma Rifle is an Inner Sphere (Liao) weapon that does heat and damage.  The Plasma Cannon is a Clan weapon that only does heat, significantly more heat at that.

Other than the Clan/I.S. difference, they look the same to me.  Why would anyone want one on a 'mech?


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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #8 on: 05 February 2011, 23:42:31 »
Other than the Clan/I.S. difference, they look the same to me.  Why would anyone want one on a 'mech?

The Plasma Rifle does the same damage as a AC/10 and adds heat to the enemy.
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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #9 on: 05 February 2011, 23:45:23 »
The Plasma Rifle is the crack-addicted baby of a heavy flamer and a PPC. It makes a great main gun for medium troopers, particularly ones that are going to see combined-arms opponents, as that ten-point hole-punch gets supplemented with the extra dice of heat (or damage, against vees and BA). The Clan Plasma Cannon I'm less enthusiastic about, admittedly - the lack of actual damage output does seem somewhat limiting in overall tactical applications, at least when used on 'Mechs.
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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #10 on: 05 February 2011, 23:47:48 »
Additionally, the Rifle adds an additional 2D6 damage against non-Mech and aerospace fighter units.  The Plasma Cannon does 3d6 damage to non-Mech/aerospace units.
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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #11 on: 06 February 2011, 00:25:48 »
Even though it inflicts no damage, the clan version can make it so an opposing mech has to choose: do no damage to you (not to fire any weapons) or to risk ammo explosions, shutdowns etc.  The IS version is great because it compares pretty well to a PPC or AC10 with 10 points of damage AND heat.  Most hits will affect his movement, and accuracy, and if he is already riding up the heat curve you could push him right over the edge. 
 Even better, against players who completely avoid ever putting some heat on at all, could find themselves in very uncomfortable territory.  I know a few players who would freak if they ever found themselves in double digits on the heat scale.
  I wouldn't go for it as my only weapon, or even my main weapon, but being able to throw a wrench in someone's perfectly balanced heat management   [tickedoff](or finely tuned turn of TSM perfection): priceless.
« Last Edit: 06 February 2011, 00:27:30 by Silver Sasquatch »

M-Rex

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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #12 on: 06 February 2011, 00:40:16 »
10 points of damage?  Hmm.

On Sarna it says it does 1D6 heat and no damage to Battlemechs.  Someone must have entered it wrong.


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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #13 on: 06 February 2011, 00:44:48 »
Looking at the Sarna page right now, and it looks right to me, M-Rex.
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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #14 on: 06 February 2011, 01:05:04 »
10 points of damage?  Hmm.

On Sarna it says it does 1D6 heat and no damage to Battlemechs.  Someone must have entered it wrong.

If Sarna says that, then it's wrong.  The Plasma Rifle weighs 6 tons, takes up two crits, uses ammunition that comes in 10 shot lots, and is range 5/10/15, dealing 10 damage and 1d6 heat, (2D6 bonus damage to vehicles & infantry).  It's a brutally effective weapon that screws with TSM, mops up non-BattleMech units, and basically renders the AC/10 & standard PPC obsolete.  It's probably the single best weapon system added to the game by Total Warfare.  I use every one I can get.
« Last Edit: 06 February 2011, 01:22:19 by MadCapellan »

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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #15 on: 06 February 2011, 01:14:26 »
uses ammunition that comes in 10 ton lots

Special Note: The ammunition doesn't actually come in 10 ton lots. :o

More like 10 shots per ton. :)

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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #16 on: 06 February 2011, 01:22:30 »
Special Note: The ammunition doesn't actually come in 10 ton lots. :o

More like 10 shots per ton. :)

fixed, thanks.

M-Rex

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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #17 on: 06 February 2011, 01:25:36 »
I'm looking at both on Sarna and it says heat OR damage.  Sounds like nothing more than a flamer with range.


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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #18 on: 06 February 2011, 01:33:06 »
You're reading the chart under the text, which explains the heat/damage special rules for the PR. The stat block on the right side of the page contains the rest of the TW/TM information for the weapon, which MadCap summed up pretty nicely.
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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #19 on: 06 February 2011, 01:37:23 »
Read it again
"The Plasma Rifle was developed by the Capellan Confederation. Based upon their man-portable version, the Confederation was able to create what is essentially a massive Flamer.

Plasma weapons use the power of the fusion engine or power amplifiers to power an electromagnetic accelerator that fires a stream, pulse or toroid of plasma (i.e. very hot, very energetic excited matter). The plasma is created by using a lasing process to flash cartridges of plastic foam into white-hot projectiles that cause thermal as well as physical damage."

The Plasma Cannon on the other hand is just a big Flamer but it is a bigger, better Flamer so it's still worth something.
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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #20 on: 06 February 2011, 01:51:23 »
I'm looking at both on Sarna and it says heat OR damage.  Sounds like nothing more than a flamer with range.

Sarna is not an official source.  Total Warfare specifies that Plasma Rifles deal 10 damage in addition to 1d6 heat.

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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #21 on: 06 February 2011, 02:11:22 »
Or was it 1d6 heat in addition to 10 damage? :D
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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #22 on: 06 February 2011, 05:39:38 »
I'm looking at both on Sarna and it says heat OR damage.  Sounds like nothing more than a flamer with range.

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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #23 on: 06 February 2011, 05:41:12 »
You're reading the chart under the text, which explains the heat/damage special rules for the PR. The stat block on the right side of the page contains the rest of the TW/TM information for the weapon, which MadCap summed up pretty nicely.

Yup.  Found it, and verified it with TW.

Thanks!


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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #24 on: 06 February 2011, 11:44:07 »
Sarna is not an official source.  Total Warfare specifies that Plasma Rifles deal 10 damage in addition to 1d6 heat.

Last time I looked at the Plasma Rifle article on Sarna, it said the gun dealt 1D6 heat to vehicles and infantry...
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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #25 on: 06 February 2011, 11:55:00 »
Rulebooks > Sarna
Crack yours open and be enlightened. We're not making this stuff up.

But that means I'll have to take it out of its collectible styrene bag with acid-free cardboard backer.


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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #26 on: 06 February 2011, 12:28:03 »
I find it funny that the most 'anti-stealth' weapon is invented by the stealth gang. 

I've learned to love the Plasma weapon for a med range bodyguard role in addition to it's straightforward applications.  Battle Armor ambush? Plasma.  Stealth mech running close?  Plasma.  Infantry pop up out of nowhere? Plasma.  Not proof against fire proof armour, but still nice.
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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #27 on: 06 February 2011, 16:20:18 »
If Sarna says that, then it's wrong.  The Plasma Rifle weighs 6 tons, takes up two crits, uses ammunition that comes in 10 shot lots, and is range 5/10/15, dealing 10 damage and 1d6 heat, (2D6 bonus damage to vehicles & infantry).  It's a brutally effective weapon that screws with TSM, mops up non-BattleMech units, and basically renders the AC/10 & standard PPC obsolete.  It's probably the single best weapon system added to the game by Total Warfare.  I use every one I can get.

I have to agree; it constitutes a major breakthrough in Inner Sphere weapons technology. The Houses have introduced a weapon that is in the company of the cER ML, cER PPC, cLPL and cLRM20.

Though I will say the standard PPC is rendered obsolete by any number of other things in TW, too.


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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #28 on: 06 February 2011, 18:24:00 »
I suspect the Plasma Rifle would make a good addition to some tank units as well.

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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #29 on: 06 February 2011, 18:28:42 »
The Plasma Rifle does make for a great tank-killer, but it counts as an energy weapon even though it uses ammo, so ICE tanks would have to shell for the heat sinks. Manticores and Myrmidons, though could easily make the swap, making them even more vicious when going head-to-head with other MBTs.
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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #30 on: 06 February 2011, 18:46:32 »
Remeber the other thing about the Plasma Rifle that makes it so nice: neither it nor its ammo explode when hit...

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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #31 on: 07 February 2011, 19:27:41 »
Almost forgot that the standard PPC still has one leg to stand, the Plasma Rifle uses ammo thus can run out of ammo.
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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #32 on: 07 February 2011, 19:46:42 »
Sarna is not an official source.  Total Warfare specifies that Plasma Rifles deal 10 damage in addition to 1d6 heat.
He miss-reading the article.  It says it does 10 damage to the 'Mech, but article lists seperately a section that lists how much HEAT it produces per type of vehicle/mech/etc.

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M-Rex

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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #33 on: 07 February 2011, 20:01:56 »
He miss-reading the article.  It says it does 10 damage to the 'Mech, but article lists seperately a section that lists how much HEAT it produces per type of vehicle/mech/etc.

Here

Yup...I found it...and verified it in TW. 

My question now is...why is there not a canon Firestarter or Firestarter Omni variant that mounts these things?


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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #34 on: 07 February 2011, 20:10:11 »
Guess we have our first request for the next TRO.
The FS9-81X from XTRO: Corperations has a PR so it's in the works.

As for the FireStarter Omni, well thats what I love about Omni's. Want a Plasma Rifle? Just plug it in, load it up and your ready to rock 8)
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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #35 on: 07 February 2011, 20:14:35 »
Guess we have our first request for the next TRO.
The FS9-81X from XTRO: Corperations has a PR so it's in the works.

As for the FireStarter Omni, well thats what I love about Omni's. Want a Plasma Rifle? Just plug it in, load it up and your ready to rock 8)

Gah...see?  Just as I finished up typing that, I found the 81X in the Corps book.



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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #36 on: 08 February 2011, 11:31:16 »
Take an Awesome. ANY Awesome. Replace all its PPCs with Plasma Rifles and ammo. If you connect with all three (four???) plasma rifles, enjoy watching the other guy make shut down rolls even before accounting for the heat he himself generated.

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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #37 on: 08 February 2011, 11:34:03 »
....heat doesn't work that way. After chalking up the heat he generated, maybe, but you can only drop 15 heat on a target. And they'll be sinking at least 10.
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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #38 on: 09 February 2011, 10:08:12 »
It was a nice thought though.

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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #39 on: 09 February 2011, 11:18:56 »
....heat doesn't work that way. After chalking up the heat he generated, maybe, but you can only drop 15 heat on a target. And they'll be sinking at least 10.

That's assuming it isn't moving or firing, of course.

An extra 15 heat is an extra 15 heat. 

So he sinks at least 10 heat from your plasma rifles.  That's at least 10 heat he isn't sinking from the PPCs he fired that turn.

Of course, the real beauty is the threat of the extra heat.  Your enemy is probably going to be holding back his weapons fire in anticipation of taking a hit or two of your plasma rifles- you've already reduced his damage output without even hitting him yet.

And if you do hit with all three when he or she is expecting one or two hits?  That's an extra 1D6 or 2D6 heat.  That's easily enough to reduce his movement profile- making him even easier to hit the next turn.
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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #40 on: 09 February 2011, 12:01:27 »
Last time I looked at the Plasma Rifle article on Sarna, it said the gun dealt 1D6 heat to vehicles and infantry...

last time I looked it said it dealt NO additional D6 damage to vehicles, which is just wrong...
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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #41 on: 09 February 2011, 13:01:00 »
 [copper]

Just as a reminder.

Designs go in the design forums.  Thanks.

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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #42 on: 09 February 2011, 14:33:07 »
The Flamer is a all energy Flame Thrower while the Plasma Rifle works much like the Plasma Rifle from Doom; It uses a high powered electromagnetic charge of energy to ignite a cartridge of plastic foam into a white-hot projectile.

Remember when you were weilding that thing, you could walk into a room, and own that sucka [rockon]?  Those were the days...*sigh*. 

It's a much better weapon over the mech-sized flamer overall and can even give battlearmor a problem. 
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Re: Plasma Rifle vs. Mech sized flamer?
« Reply #43 on: 09 February 2011, 20:34:27 »
[copper]

Just as a reminder.

Designs go in the design forums.  Thanks.

/ [copper] ;D

Sorry man.  Mea culpa.


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